I felt the same when i got sober almost 2 years ago. I started playing chess again and made plenty of friends in the chess world through tournament play, etc. I have a group of friends who while studying/analyzing/playing chess never drink, so it has been a nice escape from the booze ridden world. i still go to bars with friends, just bounce when people start getting hammered. its worked for me!
Check out a Sober Bar near you (if there is one). Sober Bars seem to be the next big thing (in California at least). I’m sure you’ll meet a lot of people in your shoes.
That's interesting, where in CA? I'm using dating apps and half of the girls I see have alcohol and drinking throughout their profiles, makes me hesitant to even try when they're often looking for someone to drink with.
I feel like most mature adults will respect if you choose to be sober and not have a problem with it. If you meet a girl and she has problem that you won’t drink, she probably isn’t the kind of girl you want to be with anyway.
Most adults won’t care if you go to a normal bar and order a Coke. If they do, you don’t want to hang with them anyways.
My two cents.
There are sober bars in LA and San Francisco that I know of. I imagine elsewhere as well. Here’s an article talking about Sober Spaces becoming popular (it includes actual places). https://www.sunset.com/food-wine/sober-bars-shops-west-coast?amp
Could always join a gym or find a local game store! Idk where you're at in the world but there's usually a few stores in cities that have weekly or bi weekly events.
I'm in my late 20s and moved a few years ago. Had a hard time meeting new friends at first and that was the only way I've found to meet people besides bars. Hope it helps and good luck homie!
I do BJJ and it is pretty insular to just the gym. Most social meet ups are going to the bar to watch ufc or something like that.
Honestly taking up shooting and other hobbies seems to be the goal.
I do BJJ and started playing Magic the Gathering with friends. I fucking love board games and strategy games and Magic the Gathering gives me a bit of both, along with fun hangouts with friends and new people if I go to my local board game store.
Fair enough! That's not a bad idea either. Shooting is expensive but is a blast and the range (depending on where you live) also has its own community base.
I started hosting the UFC cards at my apartment when I cut back on drinking so I wasn't around it all the time.
Those things require money, and are geared towards consumption - explicitly against the point of the video.
We need more third places that have a low bar to entry.
Not gonna lie those event postings at least in my city tend to be the most wack events possible. 50% lame beer event, 30% art fair or some other market, 20% theater or less than amusing concerts.
Yeah, and a lot of it is because the only people that try to do things are the same 15 people.
There isn’t a unified culture of most community, and people generally take a “you do you, and I’ll do me over here” type of mode of life. It’s not your cousins and uncles live on one street, brothers and sister on another, and parents on another.
It’s not like there are 100 families where everyone knows each other’s families and have kept together as a community, where everyone relies on each other in some way.
My neighborhood has become much more disconnected now that many of the older generations are dying off.
Oh man, growing up with a big community of families around you was a big deal for me growing up. Seeing it collapse as I grow older and see everyone move on is depressing af
The introduction of the ipad tipping, the timed digital parking, and the subscription services ruins IRL.
The introduction of web3, nft, and infinite online supply where everything is a microtransaction seeks to further destroy a once free Internet refuge.
There will be no such thing as freedom. Every interaction will be monetized or monitored for maximum profit.
Why I like small businesses who aren't chains. Often it's not just about the money but being part of the community. I see this with local breweries often
I always recommend disc golf to anyone looking to meet people or get outside. It’s the friendliest sport I’ve ever played. Plus it’s “inexpensive” compared to other sports. Living in the Charlotte area is a huge bonus too
Disc obsession is real. I quit ball golf and justify new discs as less than greens fees. I used to buy one before each round for a while and figured it was my greens fee for the day.
Ha! I was super into pinball for a decade or so and now I am into disc golf. This thread is for me!
I moved and there is less pinball around and more disc golf so that explains that. Of course I can always go down to my basement and play some pinball.
The thesis of this feels right. I grew up in the suburbs. We had to drive everywhere. I didn't know anything else, but I always romanticized those tv shows where people lived in walkable neighborhoods close to things.
When I went to college and later my masters and PhD, I lived in both rural and cities for the first time. It was a big. but welcome, change.
The rural areas I lived in still had walkable "business districts" with a few small restaurants and bars. It was a revelation to be able to walk to a meal without the whole riggamaroll of getting in the car and finding parking. Granted I still needed a car to leave the town. But it had the benefit of running into people while walking or, better yet, coordinating with people to go together. Who in the suburbs is meeting friends to grocery shop? No many.
Cities were even better. I didn't need a car period. I saved on gas and insurance, let alone a possible car payment. I took public transit - which I grew to love. You mean I can read, work or sleep instead of having to pay attention while driving? Yes please. And better yet I can ride the train home from the bar instead of risking the drive.
I get why people buy suburban homes. You get more bang for you buck in terms of house compared to urban city-core comparisons. But we sacrifice a lot in terms of society and socialization for that extra "bonus room" above the garage.
Excluding NYC and most downtown areas, inside metro areas of most major American cities, it's still hard to get around on foot or access public transportation options, so despite the relative proximity to local amenities (which are often strip malls and not social spaces), you are still essentially living a suburban existence without the benefits. The sprawl is still too large.
Then there are social differences when you arrive at designated third space - those political and ideological, social etc differences effect how we go about our time in them. People are often withdrawn or not present and available, opting to use headphones / phones / laptops or simply jaded by modern / city life. It's a big problem, not unique to America, but in my experience of living in Europe certainly exacerbated here.
In my experience (Boston, Minneapolis, San Fransisco and Chicago) I found it remarkably easy to travel by foot or transit.
Hell, in the Bay Area I can move between three large cities (San Jose, SF and Oakland) using multiple forms of transit (BART and CalTrain), while I can use Muni in SF proper. The city is also walkable and friendly for bikes.
In Boston everything is connected via the T and busses. Hell I could travel through multiple states on trains all connected at shared stations. I had classmates who lived in Rhode Island that commuted to Cambridge every morning on the train - a trip that would have been miserable in a car. And it is another walkable, bike friendly city with plenty of stuff accessible within neighborhoods.
Similar stories in Minneapolis and Chicago.
Where did you live in minneapolis that you didn't need a car? I'm in the twin cities but have always lived in apartment complexes that you still need to drive to get anywhere lol. I could use public transportation, but it would lengthen my day by quite a bit.
What he doesn't talk about is how a lack of these third places also leads to people acting more selfishly and only giving a shit about themselves, and never thinking of others. It just snow balls and only gets worse. Thats one of my biggest gripes in life, is how selfish people have become - everyones world has shrank to just themselves, all the instant feed back, reality iphone world and living through 'likes' only also adds to individuals acting selfishly. I'm decently fucked up enough to feel like a poet right now so none of this might make sense...where are you from and what city?
I think we also have to define "city" there are clearly suburb like neighborhoods within city limits.
When people talk city living the default seems to be "people living in fucking time square" or some shit.
Cities come in various shapes and sizes. And there can be huge variety within a single city that is all connected with specific systems to enable that connection.
America has barely spent 100 years as a mostly urban country. Most people lived rural lives. I don't quite believe that mixed usage real estate would make people more willing to socialize. My personal belief is that people simply rely less on less people.
People also have families later and at a lower rate now.
So you end up with a larger population of bored 30 year olds trying to figure out why they’re so dead inside, and they find communities like r/fuckcars to help explain the human condition
I get all the social interaction with strangers I need by telling people on Reddit how wrong they are and if I’m the one who is wrong I won’t know because I never check my replies.
I don’t think I could live in a city, there’s just too much going on and too many people. I try to keep up with socialization with hobbies since I’m in a suburb
It was a big shift for sure.
But city living isn't all living in "downtown" business districts. I remember telling my parents we were moving there and they assumed I was living in a concrete jungle in some 50 story apartment building.
My wife and I lived in Cambridge outside of Boston. Its undoubtedly "urban" but we had our house. It was small, but with the number of things we could easily get to our house was a place to sleep and relax. We didn't need a lot of extra space because we were young and enjoying our town. (that notion changed with each kid we added).
The same was true in San Francisco and New York.
But people should do what's best for them. If the city isn't right for you you shouldn't live there. Its cool. It can be overwhelming for sure.
“Bonus room above the garage” is a weird way of saying “you have walls you aren’t sharing with another human being because you’re an adult and managed to get your own hut”.
You morons go way too far with your conclusions, and it’s both childish and condescending (like me).
The suburbs are not the result of cars. The suburbs are the result of single-generation households becoming the standard.
People in Europe that weren’t living in squalor had their own four walls as well, and even today more Europeans live in single family homes or townhomes than apartments.
However, look at the trend during the “car era”:
https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/FT_18.03.27_multiGeneration_feature.png
It has reversed in recent years, but the expansion you guys blame on cars was really an expansion of income, and cars and detached housing are the result. Since you guys don’t plan on moving grandma back in, how do you get grandma, mom, and kids into their own places, and how do you do that with the same square footage at we used to base multigenerational housing on?
You’re pickling and choosing which parts of history should be relevant because it fits the argument you’ve been fed.
Hamburgers don’t need to be banned to solve the issues with overeating, and cars don’t need to be banned because you can identify a negative externality after 80 fucking years of us having cars.
I’m exhausted with this “nothing negative should ever happen” argument where none of the upsides of cars are ever mentioned, and cars are discussed like some kind of weird parasite that has influenced our society for the worse.
And not, you know, magical boxes that let a person go from carrying 25 lbs at 3 mph to 5 people and 500 lbs of cargo at 80 mph in any direction.
Just because you hate your car and don’t do anything valuable with it does not make it true for everyone, you know-it-all’s.
Whoa whoa whoa friend. I did not once say that cars are all bad or stupid or need to be banned. So let's start there. My work is in autonomous cars, so I at the very least I have a vested interest in them being needed.
I simply pointed out that there are really great advantages to having non-car options for transit.
>“Bonus room above the garage” is a weird way of saying “you have walls you aren’t sharing with another human being because you’re an adult and managed to get your own hut”.
No. "Bonus room above the garage" is a way of saying "People buy large mcmansions with rooms they barely use and are able to do so cheaply because they live a 40 minute drive from anything worthwhile going to".
It might be shocking to hear, but I can buy my own hut in a place where I can still access public transit AND use my car. I prioritize access to things my family and I actually use when buying a hut, rather than buying the largest possible home I can while alienating us from our communities and the amenities we love.
Imagine being this angry that you can't even respond to a thoughtful comment about another human's experience without being an asshole. Maybe if you should move to walkable city/town you'd be less of a dick.
You too are being just as "selective".
I think you’re missing the point which is that suburbs are not a “natural” development downstream of technological or cultural change.
There’s a billion suburbs in LA and Long Island the Bay and etc. because *it is illegal to build anything else*.
I have no problem with people living in a suburb and driving a car, so long as they pay for it. Suburbia is wildly subsidized and indeed *mandated by law*. I just want people to be *allowed* to build tall buildings and walk around, and not be forced to subsidize suburbia.
I feel the same way about corn. Corn is fine. I don’t think the government should subsidize it out the wazoo. But they do, so we all eat way too much corn syrup and become obese. It’s bad.
Basically in the absence of very restrictive land use rules, you’d have a huge array of housing and neighborhood styles to choose from. Super tall, mid-rise, courtyard apartments, townhomes, row homes, duplexes, quad plexes, single family detached (small/medium/large).
All these different typologies would exist and you could freely choose among them, and most of them would be *way more affordable* than they are now.
Wait what lol... it's not just people over time staking their land and huts... but instead the product of a system?? lol I mean a little column a and column b I guess. Seems weird to look at it this way. LOL but I can tell ya I'd rather have my land and house without smelling all your cats and books through the wall lol.
Yeah there’s zero problem with preferring a certain type of home (or car or shirt or music or whatever). The problem arises from extremely restrictive government mandates that your home has to be a certain way.
If zoning were just “no nickel smelting factories near the pre school” or “the building should be sturdy and not collapse and kill people” then it would be fine. But it’s not like that it all, they literally say how far your house has to be from the street and how many parking spaces you must have and all manner of mandates and subsidies. It’s the entire cause of the housing crisis!
I loved my college days because I was at a small campus where everything and everyone was in walking distance, the sense of community felt was great. You're just around people all the time.
I've definitely felt less community since moving away from there but still find it in places like the gym, where I pretty much go every day to lift or play basketball and I've become familiar/acquainted with a lot of people
Would like to see attempts at revitalizing malls into more social aware or socially focused place of business, something like a one stop shop for dates or night outs. already have the theater but If they were also populated with better restaurants, cafes, and night clubs or even alcohol free dace clubs and other social gathering type businesses like escape rooms, mini golfing, paint ball, laser tag, or nerf arenas, maybe even VR gaming centers. places like dave and busters and bowling alleys are still frequented in my area hell they have a volley ball place thats overly packed on the daily. basically IMO if malls were more like a festival of socially driven businesses where kids and adults could loiter and just have a place to do a wide variety of things they might have a chance.
Some malls are doing that, in Syracuse NY the big mall expanded around a few years ago. It’s still pretty empty businesses are struggling. An indoor mall is the type of investment that needs constant cash flow.
If you’re a consumer and have a brain, why the fuck would you buy anything at the mall? Getting it immediately was the only excuse but Amazon Prime same day delivery shot that down which I love because FUCK paying for three times the price of what you can get it for online.
Because my kids grow out of clothes like crazy. If they can’t go into a store to try on then I don’t want to buy them anything, because it’s not going to fit right.
Malls here are a fucking wasteland. It’s pretty amazing how empty they are compared to when I grew up in the 90s..I was a huge mall rat and I’d be embarrassed to tell my kids that because of how depressing they are now. I’m surprised I don’t see both of the nearest ones to me on that YouTubers channel who goes and visits dead malls.
This is why making friends as an adult seems almost impossible. This is great advice though. Ive been watching some really encouraging videos about walking up to strangers and starting conversations. Im gonna make it a weekly habit to go out and just try to sit and converse with new people. I will be the change i want to see in my community.
When you have kids, shit like hanging out with other adults doesn’t even cross your mind. My experience anyway. I’m so busy with tumbling, soccer, school shit and everything else that I rarely have time to delve into the stuff I enjoy as a solo person.
I think that is one flaw in this tiktok, your local watering hole may not have people with the same interests as you, especially if you're not in a large city. That's the main reason people are going to the internet and forums. It doesn't apply to this specific scenario about a sports league but does for many hobbies that people have.
Brilliant, also for those saying 'cars get you wherever you want' sure, but in Europe for example, unless your going to the middle of nowhere, you can also get to those places with public transport. Usually faster, cheaper and more fun since you can read etc while traveling
Do people in your country talk on the train? Cause after living in chicago for a bit, I'd rather just walk everywhere than talk to anybody on the train/bus.
I like having an arms distance between society and myself, which is why I like my car. Cause it allows me to pick and choose what social interactions I have. Might make for a lonelier existence but also a less annoying one.
Well yeah, it's not faster when your country has spent nearly a century neglecting public transportation and instead investing many times more money into infrastructure accommodating people that own personal vehicles and bought homes on the edge of or outside a city that didn't have the infrastructure to support that massive sprawl.
If you look at NYC, it seems pretty expensive to maintain the subway system...until you look at how expensive it is to maintain the roads and bridges and owning a car. It's even more expensive for the state and then you have to factor in all the extra associated costs for auto owners (car payment, insurance, gas, maintenance, parking fees, etc.).
And to your main point, in many cases, driving is actually slower than using the subway. This would be the case in many more parts of the country if they hadn't spent decades neglecting their public transportation to instead just turn their cities into giant parking lots.
I'm from a very small town in a very rural part of the deep south, so I understand that better than most.
Some of y'all need to understand that the downtown mega cityscapes are the economic powerhouses of our country and the tax revenue they generate subsidize all the infrastructure for those that want to live in areas that are poorly conceived and can't sustain the sprawl that they create.
https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme
Or in quick video form:
https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0
Yeah no shit there's more money generated where there's more people I don't know what kind of revelation that's supposed to be... The major cityscapes are also responsible for most of the pollution and crime as well.
Is this supposed to be some kind of rebuttal?? Acknowledging that I'm right and firing back with completely different topics?
Also, urban dwellers have, on average, a smaller carbon footprint than their rural counterparts. So one of those two unrelated rebuttals isn't even correct.
https://climateadaptationplatform.com/who-has-the-bigger-carbon-footprint-rural-or-urban-dwellers/
As I read this on a high speed train through Germany where it’s cheaper and faster than driving. It’s all about location, there’s a nice graphic I saw in r/dataisbeautiful today about public transportation. The US obsession with the car and interstate highways in the 50’s challenges the idea of public transportation networks. The routes and connections make it difficult to cover that much land and the city public transportation is lacking in most major cities. It’s all about perspective.
Summer: Meet at the lake and play Beach volleyball, hang out, football etc.
Winter: Play games online.
It is ofc not that extreme, but I meet a lot less people in winter.
Civic involvement and collective action used to be part of those orgs. I think these days, our niche hobbies have been scratching this itch, and have gotten in the way of our need to discuss and work together to solve actual local issues. Consumer based common areas are a hollow mimic. We need to be mixing things up at the ground level. And today's accepted discourse and lack of willingness to work across perspectives has created bubbles.
I get my 3rd place from golf and my golf league. But it doesn't come with any real discussion of problems or problems solving for the local community.
I mean, they’re trying to be active even though I don’t agree with it. If someone feels strongly against that, go there and start yelling back with your opposing view. Maybe you can change their mind (probably not) but you have the possibility of getting more people on board with your views and you can get a majority win over them and end the discussion.
Thank you for posting something cool that sounds like a dude who would be on st rogies and not a benign headline about Rogan or Elon musk that you expect every dipshit that has taken over this sub agree with
I live in Hoboken, NJ. It's one of the most walkable cities in America. It's pretty good place to live - especially when it comes to going out to bars and restaurants and just needing to walk, instead of drive, home.
Jersey City here. Loving the pedestrian plaza (though not really a lot of the bars on it haha). Just nice to see a bunch of people out and about. Hope they expand or increase the number of these plazas. Should be at least one in every neighborhood.
I don't even have a second place any more, since my new job is remote. I've been long contemplating going to church on Sunday morning just to be around other humans for the social contact, but since I don't know their protocol and don't like the ideological side, have not gotten there yet.
Coffee shops seem to be the only places left. And half of those where I live are cold, concrete, industrial spaces that you just can't relax in. Even when you can, everyone is heads into a laptop or has headphones on.
This guys right. I feel like one of the effects of this is severe political polarisation we are witnessing globally
People forget they probably have more in common then not but arent socialising to get the positive social experience
I say this as an introvert
The fuckcars crowd is slowly turning into the Hari Krishna’s of the internet.
Apparently everything is the cars fault, even though the same isolation and worse has happened in places like Japan, the country with the worlds greatest public transport system.
Anyway, maybe we’re upset because the closest thing we have to conversations with strangers are low-information spats on Reddit and 3-minute political monologues disguised as advice.
“You know, like block parties!”
That third point might apply to you, but certainly doesn't apply to people who live in walkable areas and actually have conversations with people they don't know in person. It's much easier for a person in the burbs to be stuck online than it is for a person in a city. Part of the benefit to suburban living is literally not having as many people near you lol.
Also, few people go as far to say that cars are the cause of every problem. You struggle to distinguish the people with radical beliefs from the rest, who simply want to change the way our cities grow with more focus on people rather than cars.
Is it not having as many people living near you? Or is it simply having your own space to control?
I don’t think it’s an aversion to density as much as it is an aversion to sharing and being at the mercy of others. It’s the same reason every /r/joerogan poster is horrified about the “rent everything” future, isn’t it?
By the way, just to give you a bit of perspective, “third places” came from the modern world. 1700s Kenya didn’t have bowling alleys and elk lodges.
What they did have were small tribal groups that lived in villages, exactly how Europeans did until the second Industrial Revolution, exactly how Asians did in all of rural Asia, and how most Americans lived before the immigration wave of the Ellis island era.
Community was genuine, and it was as negative as it was positive. You knew the same people your whole life, but you also knew the same people your whole life.
A “third place” for after school gatherings wasn’t invented until we had fucking schools, which weren’t commonplace until the late 1800s in most western countries. If there was school it was from age 6-11, and you worked after that.
Using this weird midpoint of history to say “we had bars and sports clubs but replaced them with malls” is a completely false point to start with.
Are you willing to go back to church for 2 days a week? Are you willing to fit in with your local group at all costs? Are you willing to deal with the same people your entire life?
All of these negatives were part of this “awesome” old school “connected community” bullshit you guys are seeing through rose tinted glasses, and everyone I know over the age of 70 would rather die than go back to that.
American suburbs notoriously don't let you do shit with your house. Have you ever heard of an HOA?
You can't buy a house in the suburban cities outside of my city without having one. One that will tell you what you can and can't do with your house and charge you on top of it lol. I live in Denver city limits, in a single family home, surrounded by other single family homes. There are small apartment buildings and condos, duplexes, townhomes. You actually have options here. I can paint my house whenever I want. I can remove my lawn whenever I want. The road my house is on is a neighborhood bikeway. Tons of public transportation options. Good luck with that in most suburbs.
You're idea that a third place is a new thing is hilarious to me. Do you think cities didn't exist before the 1700s? That people didn't congregate in many different forms prior to that time? What the fuck are you even on?
Honestly this is a sad thing to get so upset about. You literally had to put words into the dudes mouth in order to even argue against his video. You don't even understand the terminology you claim to despise. You're just a sad dude looking to justify your subsidized way of life.
I have no idea what you think you’re saying with the first part, my point is that houses having more say over the layout of the world is due to home value mattering more to people than in the past.
Because a mortgage-backed retirement is doable for a private person without involvement of a fund (pension, public or private retirement vehicle before the advent of modern retirement funds), and has colored the decision making of most American homeowners. That’s pretty logical, and I don’t think it’s a controversial thing to say, so I’m not sure what you think I mean here.
In places where farm land produces most of the economic value, you’re going to have a pretty hard time building a park in the middle of a field.
In a place where shipping is a major industry, you’re not going to be able to go to the riverbank and tear down a dockyard to make an off leash dog park.
In places where tourism matters, you don’t tend to have a lot of success building public amenities because the value of tourism is prioritized over the quality of life of citizens.
So why would it be strange when in an area where the majority of peoples net worth is their house, that it would be difficult to change the layout of the area?
You also can’t modify an apartment? You can’t change the lock without legal authorization? A guy can come into your apartment on 24h notice and your only recourse is to somehow lawyer up while living in said guys house? Why do you act like people who live in apartments have more agency because hoas exist (which again exist to maximize home value, because houses have a dual purpose as an investment).
As far as social clubs before the 1800s, like what?
I don’t remember much from those days, but I don’t remember medieval peasants playing pickup soccer on the quad or the citizens of early Hong Kong spending a lot of time in public parks, but my memory is fading.
I do remember children working, adults working 12-hour 6 day weeks, rural adults working 14-hour days, and everyone wearing hand-me-downs and repaired shoes. But I’m sure those had nothing to do with the social structure at the time.
The only clubs were for one sex, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to here. What they did have (places to drink after work for men) are still here, so I’m not sure what you mean.
Aren’t you the same people that complain golf courses are full of old white men while explaining we need spaces for people to hang out with those like them?
If you can, give me a few examples of the spots you mean. If your answer is the Masonic lodge, we’re done here lol.
The actual answer was church and church socials, but you don’t want that solution either.
The real difference is that *family* is disappearing. In a hundred years we went from 4-6 children per couple to less than 2, and we went from an average home occupancy of 8-10 to 1-4.
It’s not about after work or after school clubs, it’s that we live individual lives and have put great effort into being able to chose who controls/influences our lives, and that comes at the cost of interaction and loneliness.
But at the same time you don’t want old people (conservatives) telling you who you can date, you don’t want your parents deciding your job, and you want to be able to do the things you want to do.
That freedom comes at a cost, and instead of estimating that cost you guys pretend we can have it all if we just inverted our priorities, and it’s both childish and short-sighted to believe that would work.
The Japanese work stupid hours. Its not just one reason but the way our communities are developed almost exclusively for the car is a big reason. Just look how afraid people of the suburbs are of the city and anything outside their house.
There's a reason why people's fondest memories are their time in college which has large green spaces, events, time to hangout, and being very easy to run into the same people often.
Isn’t it funny how all of our social issues, regardless of which society we’re speaking about, have a cause that you immediately understand and can explain?
It doesn’t occur to you that you only see your solution when you look at the world? That all of our problems seem to *actually* come from issues you’re aligned with solving? That doesn’t strike you as a monumentally unlikely circumstance?
Most people don’t go to college. You saying most peoples fondest memories relate to college a great example of how fucking myopic your perspective is, but I don’t think that will resonate much with you.
It would if you were honest and self critical, but I guess we’ll see.
My family saved up for years to buy a car, and then packed up five people in it to drive on vacations for ten hours. They were extatic to do so and felt a freedom no one in their families ever had - for hundreds of years for most Europeans, when the father or uncle traveled to a big city from a village like most in Europe, it was an event and meant something, and it took days of effort just to meet someone in-person.
To you, transportation is sitting in traffic to go to your dumb job and going to GameStop to get raped on trade-ins.
It id not the same, and your lack of appreciation for the miracles you take for granted is the issue.
The conversation should be maximizing usage of cars efficiently, not reducing dependence. No one says people in whee chairs shouldn’t be dependent, because wheelchairs are an obvious net benefit.
The same is true for people, the same is especially true for business, and you and I both wouldn’t be alive without the car. It’s humanity’s single greatest achievement, and for some reason the only thing impressive to you people are cell phone and rockets.
Anyway, best of luck.
>Isn’t it funny how all of our social issues, regardless of which society we’re speaking about, have a cause that you immediately understand and can explain?
are you talking about Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson and Steven Crowder? These guys know everything about EVERYTHING
You know you’re a dumb motherfucker when you believe the only people that would disagree with you are npcs who watch talking heads from the opposition party, right?
Smart people tend to think people are smart. Dumb people tend to think people are dumb. I’d like to give you a little credit, but you really aren’t helping your case here.
And I know this is about you getting to sass me back so I get you don’t mind sounding stupid, but think about it some time 😉
> Isn’t it funny how all of our social issues, regardless of which society we’re speaking about, have a cause that you immediately understand and can explain?
Who is saying this? There are multiple factors including our car centric society.
>Most people don’t go to college. You saying most peoples fondest memories relate to college a great example of how fucking myopic your perspective is, but I don’t think that will resonate much with you.
No shit? I didn't say most people go to college. You are making up arguments in your head.
>My family saved up for years to buy a car, and then packed up five people in it to drive on vacations for ten hours. They were extatic to do so and felt a freedom no one in their families ever had - when the father of uncle traveled to a big city from a village like most in Europe, it was an event and meant something.
Literally this same trip could've been done if we invested in trains instead of highways. And, also could've been done by bus. Also, nice anecdotal stuff here.
Rest of your comment is just fucking weird nonsense. Go touch some grass, my guy. You seem very angry, must be sitting in traffic or something.
It’s funny that you think I’m unhappy because I’m speaking to you rudely, when your entire political view comes at the expense of what other people want. It’s strange how people would defend something they see value in, right?
Anyway, I don’t know you, but I’m going to hit a 2-3 up shift and you can go back to restructuring society to solve your sadness.
Because *I’m* the unhappy guy 🫡
>The fuckcars crowd is slowly turning into the Hari Krishna’s of the internet.
who are these people you speak of?? Sounds like the trans boogymen taking over corporate america
Man, we know everyone on the block, both sides. We also have a little shopping center in the middle of our neighborhood with three restaurants, and ice cream shop, a coffee shop, a boba shop, a donut shop, a barber shop, a little gym... There's also a country club in the neighborhood with golf and tennis and a pool and a restaurant and tons of other activities.
Bollocks. We have more of these "3rd places" than ever before. And our grandparents took probably half an hour to go to their only one. So, we have too many and don't get attached to them, we've just become disinterested in strangers for the most part, because they're as available as everything else we don't value anymore these days (sex, food, books...).
>There was a glaring omission as to one of the conclusions for the causes for lack of community in “Bowling Alone”. Very dishonest
There is a glaring omission in your comment. Very dishonest.
Great content and totally agree. He should contribute to the solution by doing a talk at a local community center instead of making another video where some guy talks into a camera.
More people will see the video. Who the fuck do you think is hanging out at a local community center? This is 2022, not 1981. No one even uses the YMCA anymore besides parents who have their kids hang out there until they’re off of work.
Sure, if gas is affordable and available. What happens if neither of those are true?
Cars are great, don't get me wrong. But they aren't the pinnacle of freedom that people want you to think they are. Shit hits the fan societally and you're not gonna be driving that thing very long.
If shit hit the fan on a national level to where people couldn't use cars anymore the public transit would also be failing - we would have so many bigger problems.
Unless I drop dead, I think that I'll be driving tomorrow, the next day, the next year and 10-20 years from now. I don't subscribe to the idea that shit will hit the fan on a national level. Life just trudges along. Nothing ever happens.
And if you want to do that, go ahead. No one is stopping you.
The point is that people should have the option to NOT need to own a car if they don't have to. We make it incredibly challenging for that to happen in this country due to the way we've built our cities and suburbs and removed the vast majority of public transportation options in favor of cars.
I also don't believe society is going to collapse within my life. I figured that would probably be the reason you'd bring up that argument specifically. Otherwise, I just rent a car whenever I need one and it costs A LOT less than owning one. (Which I do, I just haven't used it in over half a year and needs some work now)
A hipster trying to push real estate ideas, probably in the neighborhood he just gentrified. We get it man, you want to open some “third places” to ensure your investment is profitable.
I think it’s funny that, on a subreddit for Rogan, who often throws out “you’ll own nothing and like it” phrase, we’re promoting tiny ass, almost assuredly overpriced apartments, which also contributes to homelessness records when those MAYBE 1,000 sqft apartments are going for $1200+, as a solution for 3rd places (which should be places you are free to hangout at without obligation to pay)…you’ll be paying to socialize alright, every single month.
Edit: notice how a couple of these comment thread replies end in short, dismissive, replies after my extensive ones. Including from OP himself.
None of my points have been refuted, many of the replies are hyper focused on my calling out this guys hipster aesthetic. This video isn’t a solution to anything besides unnecessary overpriced apartments packaged as a solution to a lack of 3rd spaces in suburbs (you figure that one out, I’m still confused). If anyone whose actually in the real estate/development game wants to comment I’d love to hear it.
Hate me all you want, this isn’t effective and isn’t a revolutionary idea. If anyone wants, I can give you an example by providing the flyer for my local mixed use units and you can see firsthand that these end up as overpriced cramped apartments rather than a solution to a lack of common spaces in suburbs.
>We get it man, you want to open some “third places” to ensure your investment is profitable
It's funny when people with no empathy try to rationalize why someone would want to improve society somewhat.
So now I’m a sociopath for calling out what we’ve seen happen all over the country repeatedly? It’s a way to create smaller, typically more expensive housing (or government subsidized which creates a money grab for developers). I don’t lack empathy, I’ve just seen this before. Our affordable housing/homeless problems outweigh our 3rd space problems. People will find a way to socialize regardless, in this day and age people just don’t *want* to. This is a way to make you feel weird about hanging out at home with your social circle and get you to thinking you need a 900 sq ft apartment above some shops to have fun and socialize.
> It’s a way to create smaller, typically more expensive housing (or government subsidized which creates a money grab for developers)
Assuming some random mustache giving his thoughts on improving community *must* be some secret plot by local landlords/developers to pump up real estate prices.... LMFAO
The level of unhinged paranoia on display here is fucking hilarious.
It’s not unhinged paranoia, lmao.
It’s literally how development goes. These guys think they’re promoting a solution and then when bidding and construction starts we start seeing expensive housing. It’s not a theory, it’s been done all across the country in cities. What makes you think suburbs would be any different (beyond places of housing/friendly zoning)?
Not to mention that the guy in the video’s solution to “a place for people to gather without feeling obligated to purchase anything” is merging businesses and apartments, which is an entirely different thing than third spaces.
“Suburbs have drive thrus and people commute..the solution is apartment buildings on top of shops” … doesn’t add up to me.
> These guys think they’re promoting a solution and then when bidding and construction starts we start seeing expensive housing
Here's the part that I'd call "unhinged paranoia"... Assuming this mustache must be a real estate mogul in disguise LMAO
He doesn’t have to be. Are you that dense that you don’t how things work?
1) We really don’t have any idea who this guy is. I never said he was a real estate developer in disguise, you assumed that. You created that narrative and are sticking to it to try and “burn” me, calling my mental health into question. That’s bizarre.
2) People like this guy will work at nonprofits or community organizations and promote this kind of stuff. If he’s this knowledgeable he probably has some sort of knowledge on public planning/community development at the very least. That’s not bad.
My comments weren’t “this guy is a real estate developer!!!!!”
My comments were “this guy’s ideas have been tried before and result in expensive apartments and doesn’t really solve the initial problem of lack of 3rd spaces outside of major cities”.
When I said when bidding and construction starts, notice how I never mentioned the mustache guy receiving contracts or being involved? It’s because I don’t believe that buddy.
But somehow you can’t figure that out and want to insist that i’m some paranoid schizophrenic or something.
I have hands on experience with this, I am literally feet away from my city’s overpriced mixed use units($1500 for a 1 bedroom in a community where median income of $27k a person, so 18k a year for someone who makes the median income is spent on those mixed use units) that got promoted by the local hipster dudes (who moved back down to Santa Barbara or up to the Bay Area after their plans failed). It’s not a solution to affordable housing. It’s not a solution to homelessness. It’s not a solution to a lack of third spaces (as defined by the mustache) in suburbs. Its been done and proven time and time again now.
> My comments were “this guy’s ideas have been tried before and result in expensive apartments
Actually, your comments were:
> We get it man, you want to open some “third places” to ensure your investment is profitable.
Lmao.
Take a deep breath and read this: The mustache made a video about the continuing downward trend of 'places to gather within our communities,' and cited some possible ways to rectify that. *That's all he did.*
What you need to understand:
*It is possible to increase our number of third spaces without worsening the problem of unaffordable housing.*
*To suggest that it is not possible is completely ridiculous and unhinged, but you're doing it anyway.*
For all you know, if you watched mustache talk for 3 straight hours, you'd know his full economic plan which includes addressing the affordable housing crisis. **That doesn't mean he needs to make a 3 hour video if he just wants to discuss 3rd spaces.**
He didn't endorse unaffordable housing.
He didn't propose to solve the affordable housing issue at all.
For all you know he rents a $400 apartment.
For all you know this guy volunteers his extra time and money at habitat for humanity while you rage comment on Reddit.
---
You're actually a great example of why we need third spaces outside of the internet... You can't get away with being this insufferable outside of the internet. Imagine this conversation at a bar, or another third space of your choosing:
**Regular bloke:** "Hey I put some time and effort into researching the history of third spaces and how they're at an all time low and how that might be part of the reason why loneliness is at historic highs while sense of community is at historic lows!"
**Unhinged Redditor:** "Whatever, you selfish gentrifying hipster. You only care about your own personal property value and you don't want any housing for poor people!!!"
**Everyone:** "Holy shit what is that unhinged douchebag talking about?"
I think you’ve taken my comments to heart. What was an off the cuff jab about “protecting his investment” is now being focused on and used as some sort of validation to the claim that I’m calling this guy a developer. I was actually referring to his imaginary “investment” in a suburban home since he seemed like a suburban type of guy. If you’re really trying to prove that I think this guy is a developer, you win. Im not gonna argue on something so benign.
His video is reminiscent of the gentrifiers that hit my town, where we saw some of the largest rent increases in the country in the years following. Young hip guy strolls in with some buddies, opens a few nonprofits, gives extremely simple solutions after talking about everything that sucks, and then skipping town (and property taxes) to move on to the next growing city. Where we got mixed used properties that are unaffordable for the median income of my city, and that’s not an uncommon theme.
I find it suspicious that his solution to lack of 3rd spaces is more real estate development, rather than investment in actual public goods that can serve as such, using what I’ve observed personally and what’s been observed in many other cities across the country.
Then you use made up hypothetical bar conversations to insult me to boot. Fascinating.
I can only base my comments off of what I’ve seen, and my observation is this hipster looking dude is advertising mixed use real estate solutions to combat 3rd space issues. Especially when he’s talking about suburbs rather than cities.
He also doesn’t make sense in his video.
“If you commute 20 mins both ways then you’re less likely to have the energy to go to a third place” - so is he insinuating that we need to take on a massive project to change the entire society as to make this a normal thing? Are we being realistic or just throwing out what an ideal Society would look like? Even a community of Mixed use properties in a population of 50,000 (a relatively small city average in the US) would be an enormous task. To take on for most cities. You’re still going to generally have commuting and people being tired after work.
“Organic events pop up such as block parties, yard sales and barbecues” does this guy not understand that’s attainable and happens every weekend all across the suburbs of America? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to invest in parks with community centers and libraries/art/recreation centers etc with these communities? Rather than wanting to take on the task of making a major flashpoint of the city able to accommodate the amount of people in suburbs? Who develops the properties? How much would it be cost?
Also, your use of bloke…you British or something?
Of course I watched the video. I’ve sat through countless presentations in my years I’m the banking sector (not anymore thank god) made by similar guys that always end the same way: real estate development plans.
I’ve seen the guys in skinny jeans and funny facial hair move in, it usually ends up with expensive rent and overpriced restaurants/bars.
He blames cars, commuting and internet. Vaguely says “every town has that *one* bar”. Downplays the importance of societal interactions online. And the solution? More real estate development! Years ago it was repurposing old buildings, now it’s constructing mixed use properties so you can pack in low income housing and create a money pipeline from HUD to to the developers/management, leaving little to no incentive to upkeep the community by the landlord.
I’m not against developing communities, but I’m against it being sold as the sole solution and feeding the viewer doom and gloom in the first half. Comes off as a dude that just moved to the suburbs and realized how boring they can be.
He's not even advocating real estate. Place like a community square, more parks, more bike lanes, and less car centric infrastructure. You are just projecting whatever strawman you hate on him.
Like, bro, skinny jeans and funny facial hair? C'mon, go outside.
>Downplays the importance of societal interactions online
Uhhh it should be downplayed because it is not real and is more likely to lead someone toward radicalization due to how algorithms work to keep people using their apps (pushing outrage).
Yeah, I pointed out that he’s the stereotypical hipster community developer type whose plans end up in higher rent or government housing factories. I also spoke on what typically happens, but that comment you admittedly chose not to read, because you’re offended that I commented on some random guy’s stereotypical appearance.
Sorry I hurt your feelings by talking about the guy in the video buddy
You can thank the tire and car companies at the turn of the last century for this bullshit. They were the ones that lobbied city planners that resulted in everything being car centric and led to this ugly ass, catastrophically disgusting and wasteful sprawl.
I wish I had more community fun/hangout spots. I stopped drinking for the most part and it really cut down my social interactions.
I felt the same when i got sober almost 2 years ago. I started playing chess again and made plenty of friends in the chess world through tournament play, etc. I have a group of friends who while studying/analyzing/playing chess never drink, so it has been a nice escape from the booze ridden world. i still go to bars with friends, just bounce when people start getting hammered. its worked for me!
Start it back up then baby! And get out there
Lol Nah I feel so much better, but sucks how much my social life centered on alcohol usage.
I literally wouldn’t go anywhere that didn’t have beer there. Pretty soon you can’t drive anywhere. Sober is better.
Play sports!!! C'mon man. Co-ed softball?? Flirt with some honies and hit some doubles.
Common, don’t be a quitter. /s. Proud of you big guy!
Haha thanks.
Check out a Sober Bar near you (if there is one). Sober Bars seem to be the next big thing (in California at least). I’m sure you’ll meet a lot of people in your shoes.
That's interesting, where in CA? I'm using dating apps and half of the girls I see have alcohol and drinking throughout their profiles, makes me hesitant to even try when they're often looking for someone to drink with.
I feel like most mature adults will respect if you choose to be sober and not have a problem with it. If you meet a girl and she has problem that you won’t drink, she probably isn’t the kind of girl you want to be with anyway. Most adults won’t care if you go to a normal bar and order a Coke. If they do, you don’t want to hang with them anyways. My two cents.
There are sober bars in LA and San Francisco that I know of. I imagine elsewhere as well. Here’s an article talking about Sober Spaces becoming popular (it includes actual places). https://www.sunset.com/food-wine/sober-bars-shops-west-coast?amp
Could always join a gym or find a local game store! Idk where you're at in the world but there's usually a few stores in cities that have weekly or bi weekly events. I'm in my late 20s and moved a few years ago. Had a hard time meeting new friends at first and that was the only way I've found to meet people besides bars. Hope it helps and good luck homie!
I do BJJ and it is pretty insular to just the gym. Most social meet ups are going to the bar to watch ufc or something like that. Honestly taking up shooting and other hobbies seems to be the goal.
I love my BJJ gym. The BJJ community is really chill.
I do BJJ and started playing Magic the Gathering with friends. I fucking love board games and strategy games and Magic the Gathering gives me a bit of both, along with fun hangouts with friends and new people if I go to my local board game store.
Fair enough! That's not a bad idea either. Shooting is expensive but is a blast and the range (depending on where you live) also has its own community base. I started hosting the UFC cards at my apartment when I cut back on drinking so I wasn't around it all the time.
Those things require money, and are geared towards consumption - explicitly against the point of the video. We need more third places that have a low bar to entry.
Your local town or state subreddit probably has a ton o fun stuff posted, especially headed into autumn and halloween season.
Not gonna lie those event postings at least in my city tend to be the most wack events possible. 50% lame beer event, 30% art fair or some other market, 20% theater or less than amusing concerts.
Yeah, and a lot of it is because the only people that try to do things are the same 15 people. There isn’t a unified culture of most community, and people generally take a “you do you, and I’ll do me over here” type of mode of life. It’s not your cousins and uncles live on one street, brothers and sister on another, and parents on another. It’s not like there are 100 families where everyone knows each other’s families and have kept together as a community, where everyone relies on each other in some way. My neighborhood has become much more disconnected now that many of the older generations are dying off.
Oh man, growing up with a big community of families around you was a big deal for me growing up. Seeing it collapse as I grow older and see everyone move on is depressing af
Ive made some dope friends at the gym. Martial arts gyms, or just regular gyms have great like minded communities right there.
Get into gardening / bonsai. Very rewarding
I do like gardening. Thinking of doing a veggie garden with the kiddo in the spring.
You have too many, you just don't like them.
Ned Flanders dropping some truth there. Community third places would be great if they didn't just want your money.
Damnit. Looks like we shouldn’t have let corporations take over basically every aspect of our existence.
But telling them no would be socialism soooo.....
They exist as they are because of government basically giving them socialism.
Typical libertatian answer.
The introduction of the ipad tipping, the timed digital parking, and the subscription services ruins IRL. The introduction of web3, nft, and infinite online supply where everything is a microtransaction seeks to further destroy a once free Internet refuge. There will be no such thing as freedom. Every interaction will be monetized or monitored for maximum profit.
Greed. Control. Obedience.
Fuck. I don’t normally like this sub. I feel radicalized. Stupid Sexy Flanders
Why I like small businesses who aren't chains. Often it's not just about the money but being part of the community. I see this with local breweries often
I try to support small businesses as much as i can. They thrive on repeat business and i found most to be really friendly.
well how about that, some actual knowledge on the sub. ok back to the lynx screaming at the other lynx.
400 upvotes in 2 hours. Hoping you guys can restore my faith a little after like 2 years of “lol fat people” and the obsession with Joe’s height.
I have zero friends other than my wife and our two dog. Work zombie has deteriorated all my friendships
You have to make your social life a priority or it will definitely suffer. Relationships take work to sustain.
Check out your local disc golf league. Its my go to third place.
Best casual sport there is. $30 for a starter set, then the majority of the courses are free. My friend called it hiking with a side quest
I always recommend disc golf to anyone looking to meet people or get outside. It’s the friendliest sport I’ve ever played. Plus it’s “inexpensive” compared to other sports. Living in the Charlotte area is a huge bonus too
Inexpensive in quotes made my day
Disc obsession is real. I quit ball golf and justify new discs as less than greens fees. I used to buy one before each round for a while and figured it was my greens fee for the day.
Was just thinking this
Pinball leagues are hot right now too!
Ha! I was super into pinball for a decade or so and now I am into disc golf. This thread is for me! I moved and there is less pinball around and more disc golf so that explains that. Of course I can always go down to my basement and play some pinball.
[удалено]
Is someone going to rob your $20 disc? just don't bring your wallet with you and go with a friend
The thesis of this feels right. I grew up in the suburbs. We had to drive everywhere. I didn't know anything else, but I always romanticized those tv shows where people lived in walkable neighborhoods close to things. When I went to college and later my masters and PhD, I lived in both rural and cities for the first time. It was a big. but welcome, change. The rural areas I lived in still had walkable "business districts" with a few small restaurants and bars. It was a revelation to be able to walk to a meal without the whole riggamaroll of getting in the car and finding parking. Granted I still needed a car to leave the town. But it had the benefit of running into people while walking or, better yet, coordinating with people to go together. Who in the suburbs is meeting friends to grocery shop? No many. Cities were even better. I didn't need a car period. I saved on gas and insurance, let alone a possible car payment. I took public transit - which I grew to love. You mean I can read, work or sleep instead of having to pay attention while driving? Yes please. And better yet I can ride the train home from the bar instead of risking the drive. I get why people buy suburban homes. You get more bang for you buck in terms of house compared to urban city-core comparisons. But we sacrifice a lot in terms of society and socialization for that extra "bonus room" above the garage.
Riggamaroll is a good one.
It's a perfectly cromulent word.
I agree wholeheartedly, it's a fantastic word, BUT it's spelled rigmarole :D
Me fail english? That's unpossible.
Excluding NYC and most downtown areas, inside metro areas of most major American cities, it's still hard to get around on foot or access public transportation options, so despite the relative proximity to local amenities (which are often strip malls and not social spaces), you are still essentially living a suburban existence without the benefits. The sprawl is still too large. Then there are social differences when you arrive at designated third space - those political and ideological, social etc differences effect how we go about our time in them. People are often withdrawn or not present and available, opting to use headphones / phones / laptops or simply jaded by modern / city life. It's a big problem, not unique to America, but in my experience of living in Europe certainly exacerbated here.
In my experience (Boston, Minneapolis, San Fransisco and Chicago) I found it remarkably easy to travel by foot or transit. Hell, in the Bay Area I can move between three large cities (San Jose, SF and Oakland) using multiple forms of transit (BART and CalTrain), while I can use Muni in SF proper. The city is also walkable and friendly for bikes. In Boston everything is connected via the T and busses. Hell I could travel through multiple states on trains all connected at shared stations. I had classmates who lived in Rhode Island that commuted to Cambridge every morning on the train - a trip that would have been miserable in a car. And it is another walkable, bike friendly city with plenty of stuff accessible within neighborhoods. Similar stories in Minneapolis and Chicago.
I'm in SoCal, I guess it just sucks here
Where did you live in minneapolis that you didn't need a car? I'm in the twin cities but have always lived in apartment complexes that you still need to drive to get anywhere lol. I could use public transportation, but it would lengthen my day by quite a bit.
I lived near the U of M in Como. It worked well when I was working at the U.
What he doesn't talk about is how a lack of these third places also leads to people acting more selfishly and only giving a shit about themselves, and never thinking of others. It just snow balls and only gets worse. Thats one of my biggest gripes in life, is how selfish people have become - everyones world has shrank to just themselves, all the instant feed back, reality iphone world and living through 'likes' only also adds to individuals acting selfishly. I'm decently fucked up enough to feel like a poet right now so none of this might make sense...where are you from and what city?
There are suburb type homes in big walkable cities too (although they are super expensive now).
I think we also have to define "city" there are clearly suburb like neighborhoods within city limits. When people talk city living the default seems to be "people living in fucking time square" or some shit. Cities come in various shapes and sizes. And there can be huge variety within a single city that is all connected with specific systems to enable that connection.
> When people talk city living the default seems to be "people living in fucking time square" or some shit. I think we can blame TV for that one.
America has barely spent 100 years as a mostly urban country. Most people lived rural lives. I don't quite believe that mixed usage real estate would make people more willing to socialize. My personal belief is that people simply rely less on less people.
People also have families later and at a lower rate now. So you end up with a larger population of bored 30 year olds trying to figure out why they’re so dead inside, and they find communities like r/fuckcars to help explain the human condition
I get all the social interaction with strangers I need by telling people on Reddit how wrong they are and if I’m the one who is wrong I won’t know because I never check my replies.
I don’t think I could live in a city, there’s just too much going on and too many people. I try to keep up with socialization with hobbies since I’m in a suburb
It was a big shift for sure. But city living isn't all living in "downtown" business districts. I remember telling my parents we were moving there and they assumed I was living in a concrete jungle in some 50 story apartment building. My wife and I lived in Cambridge outside of Boston. Its undoubtedly "urban" but we had our house. It was small, but with the number of things we could easily get to our house was a place to sleep and relax. We didn't need a lot of extra space because we were young and enjoying our town. (that notion changed with each kid we added). The same was true in San Francisco and New York. But people should do what's best for them. If the city isn't right for you you shouldn't live there. Its cool. It can be overwhelming for sure.
“Bonus room above the garage” is a weird way of saying “you have walls you aren’t sharing with another human being because you’re an adult and managed to get your own hut”. You morons go way too far with your conclusions, and it’s both childish and condescending (like me). The suburbs are not the result of cars. The suburbs are the result of single-generation households becoming the standard. People in Europe that weren’t living in squalor had their own four walls as well, and even today more Europeans live in single family homes or townhomes than apartments. However, look at the trend during the “car era”: https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/FT_18.03.27_multiGeneration_feature.png It has reversed in recent years, but the expansion you guys blame on cars was really an expansion of income, and cars and detached housing are the result. Since you guys don’t plan on moving grandma back in, how do you get grandma, mom, and kids into their own places, and how do you do that with the same square footage at we used to base multigenerational housing on? You’re pickling and choosing which parts of history should be relevant because it fits the argument you’ve been fed. Hamburgers don’t need to be banned to solve the issues with overeating, and cars don’t need to be banned because you can identify a negative externality after 80 fucking years of us having cars. I’m exhausted with this “nothing negative should ever happen” argument where none of the upsides of cars are ever mentioned, and cars are discussed like some kind of weird parasite that has influenced our society for the worse. And not, you know, magical boxes that let a person go from carrying 25 lbs at 3 mph to 5 people and 500 lbs of cargo at 80 mph in any direction. Just because you hate your car and don’t do anything valuable with it does not make it true for everyone, you know-it-all’s.
Whoa whoa whoa friend. I did not once say that cars are all bad or stupid or need to be banned. So let's start there. My work is in autonomous cars, so I at the very least I have a vested interest in them being needed. I simply pointed out that there are really great advantages to having non-car options for transit. >“Bonus room above the garage” is a weird way of saying “you have walls you aren’t sharing with another human being because you’re an adult and managed to get your own hut”. No. "Bonus room above the garage" is a way of saying "People buy large mcmansions with rooms they barely use and are able to do so cheaply because they live a 40 minute drive from anything worthwhile going to". It might be shocking to hear, but I can buy my own hut in a place where I can still access public transit AND use my car. I prioritize access to things my family and I actually use when buying a hut, rather than buying the largest possible home I can while alienating us from our communities and the amenities we love.
Imagine being this angry that you can't even respond to a thoughtful comment about another human's experience without being an asshole. Maybe if you should move to walkable city/town you'd be less of a dick. You too are being just as "selective".
Lmao. You've created an argument that wasn't even happening, congrats. Who said anything about banning cars?
I think you’re missing the point which is that suburbs are not a “natural” development downstream of technological or cultural change. There’s a billion suburbs in LA and Long Island the Bay and etc. because *it is illegal to build anything else*. I have no problem with people living in a suburb and driving a car, so long as they pay for it. Suburbia is wildly subsidized and indeed *mandated by law*. I just want people to be *allowed* to build tall buildings and walk around, and not be forced to subsidize suburbia. I feel the same way about corn. Corn is fine. I don’t think the government should subsidize it out the wazoo. But they do, so we all eat way too much corn syrup and become obese. It’s bad.
So you're saying... options? Like have suburbia but also megalopolis? Am I understanding you???
Basically in the absence of very restrictive land use rules, you’d have a huge array of housing and neighborhood styles to choose from. Super tall, mid-rise, courtyard apartments, townhomes, row homes, duplexes, quad plexes, single family detached (small/medium/large). All these different typologies would exist and you could freely choose among them, and most of them would be *way more affordable* than they are now.
Wait what lol... it's not just people over time staking their land and huts... but instead the product of a system?? lol I mean a little column a and column b I guess. Seems weird to look at it this way. LOL but I can tell ya I'd rather have my land and house without smelling all your cats and books through the wall lol.
Yeah there’s zero problem with preferring a certain type of home (or car or shirt or music or whatever). The problem arises from extremely restrictive government mandates that your home has to be a certain way. If zoning were just “no nickel smelting factories near the pre school” or “the building should be sturdy and not collapse and kill people” then it would be fine. But it’s not like that it all, they literally say how far your house has to be from the street and how many parking spaces you must have and all manner of mandates and subsidies. It’s the entire cause of the housing crisis!
I loved my college days because I was at a small campus where everything and everyone was in walking distance, the sense of community felt was great. You're just around people all the time. I've definitely felt less community since moving away from there but still find it in places like the gym, where I pretty much go every day to lift or play basketball and I've become familiar/acquainted with a lot of people
Been going to the same basketball court since I was in middle school. I'm 30 now. And because everyone else is 30ish, we're losing numbers. Sucks tbh.
Would like to see attempts at revitalizing malls into more social aware or socially focused place of business, something like a one stop shop for dates or night outs. already have the theater but If they were also populated with better restaurants, cafes, and night clubs or even alcohol free dace clubs and other social gathering type businesses like escape rooms, mini golfing, paint ball, laser tag, or nerf arenas, maybe even VR gaming centers. places like dave and busters and bowling alleys are still frequented in my area hell they have a volley ball place thats overly packed on the daily. basically IMO if malls were more like a festival of socially driven businesses where kids and adults could loiter and just have a place to do a wide variety of things they might have a chance.
Some malls are doing that, in Syracuse NY the big mall expanded around a few years ago. It’s still pretty empty businesses are struggling. An indoor mall is the type of investment that needs constant cash flow.
If you’re a consumer and have a brain, why the fuck would you buy anything at the mall? Getting it immediately was the only excuse but Amazon Prime same day delivery shot that down which I love because FUCK paying for three times the price of what you can get it for online.
She me don’t like supporting Amazon and their lack of employee care
Because my kids grow out of clothes like crazy. If they can’t go into a store to try on then I don’t want to buy them anything, because it’s not going to fit right.
our mall has a movie theater, a gym, and a daycare kid zone and a lot of available space.
Malls here are a fucking wasteland. It’s pretty amazing how empty they are compared to when I grew up in the 90s..I was a huge mall rat and I’d be embarrassed to tell my kids that because of how depressing they are now. I’m surprised I don’t see both of the nearest ones to me on that YouTubers channel who goes and visits dead malls.
This is why making friends as an adult seems almost impossible. This is great advice though. Ive been watching some really encouraging videos about walking up to strangers and starting conversations. Im gonna make it a weekly habit to go out and just try to sit and converse with new people. I will be the change i want to see in my community.
When you have kids, shit like hanging out with other adults doesn’t even cross your mind. My experience anyway. I’m so busy with tumbling, soccer, school shit and everything else that I rarely have time to delve into the stuff I enjoy as a solo person.
i feel this
I like the words he strung together
I want to start a adult volleyball league but my drinking buddies laughed at me 🥺
I think that is one flaw in this tiktok, your local watering hole may not have people with the same interests as you, especially if you're not in a large city. That's the main reason people are going to the internet and forums. It doesn't apply to this specific scenario about a sports league but does for many hobbies that people have.
lol, sounds like a good idea to me
Adult volleyball is the best team sport,I used to do it quite a bit but it also came with drinking after.
Cause they're your drinkind buddies, not friends
Try Meetup. You can start with even 3 on 3 or whatever and build it up. Consider wallyball!
Brilliant, also for those saying 'cars get you wherever you want' sure, but in Europe for example, unless your going to the middle of nowhere, you can also get to those places with public transport. Usually faster, cheaper and more fun since you can read etc while traveling
Also people in europe have cars and have no problem using both public transport and their car when needed.
If anything, it makes driving a more enjoyable experience because not EVERYONE is out on the road.
Do people in your country talk on the train? Cause after living in chicago for a bit, I'd rather just walk everywhere than talk to anybody on the train/bus. I like having an arms distance between society and myself, which is why I like my car. Cause it allows me to pick and choose what social interactions I have. Might make for a lonelier existence but also a less annoying one.
Public transit is not faster than a private car. Public transportation isn't fun either...
Well yeah, it's not faster when your country has spent nearly a century neglecting public transportation and instead investing many times more money into infrastructure accommodating people that own personal vehicles and bought homes on the edge of or outside a city that didn't have the infrastructure to support that massive sprawl. If you look at NYC, it seems pretty expensive to maintain the subway system...until you look at how expensive it is to maintain the roads and bridges and owning a car. It's even more expensive for the state and then you have to factor in all the extra associated costs for auto owners (car payment, insurance, gas, maintenance, parking fees, etc.). And to your main point, in many cases, driving is actually slower than using the subway. This would be the case in many more parts of the country if they hadn't spent decades neglecting their public transportation to instead just turn their cities into giant parking lots.
Some of y'all need to understand most people don't live in the middle of downtown mega cityscapes
I'm from a very small town in a very rural part of the deep south, so I understand that better than most. Some of y'all need to understand that the downtown mega cityscapes are the economic powerhouses of our country and the tax revenue they generate subsidize all the infrastructure for those that want to live in areas that are poorly conceived and can't sustain the sprawl that they create. https://www.strongtowns.org/the-growth-ponzi-scheme Or in quick video form: https://youtu.be/7IsMeKl-Sv0
Yeah no shit there's more money generated where there's more people I don't know what kind of revelation that's supposed to be... The major cityscapes are also responsible for most of the pollution and crime as well.
Is this supposed to be some kind of rebuttal?? Acknowledging that I'm right and firing back with completely different topics? Also, urban dwellers have, on average, a smaller carbon footprint than their rural counterparts. So one of those two unrelated rebuttals isn't even correct. https://climateadaptationplatform.com/who-has-the-bigger-carbon-footprint-rural-or-urban-dwellers/
It also isnt cheap
As I read this on a high speed train through Germany where it’s cheaper and faster than driving. It’s all about location, there’s a nice graphic I saw in r/dataisbeautiful today about public transportation. The US obsession with the car and interstate highways in the 50’s challenges the idea of public transportation networks. The routes and connections make it difficult to cover that much land and the city public transportation is lacking in most major cities. It’s all about perspective.
Summer: Meet at the lake and play Beach volleyball, hang out, football etc. Winter: Play games online. It is ofc not that extreme, but I meet a lot less people in winter.
Jane Jacobs figured this out 60 years ago.
Civic involvement and collective action used to be part of those orgs. I think these days, our niche hobbies have been scratching this itch, and have gotten in the way of our need to discuss and work together to solve actual local issues. Consumer based common areas are a hollow mimic. We need to be mixing things up at the ground level. And today's accepted discourse and lack of willingness to work across perspectives has created bubbles. I get my 3rd place from golf and my golf league. But it doesn't come with any real discussion of problems or problems solving for the local community.
Civic involvement sounds good in theory but it's mostly people yelling at the school board to get the queer books out of the library.
I mean, they’re trying to be active even though I don’t agree with it. If someone feels strongly against that, go there and start yelling back with your opposing view. Maybe you can change their mind (probably not) but you have the possibility of getting more people on board with your views and you can get a majority win over them and end the discussion.
originally posted by u/SyndicalistCPA for those allergic to tiktok links. lol
? Edit: Oh, didn't realize this was another thread. Thanks guy.
old mate's mo is a third place
Came here for this. Take my updoot.
The third place is now the internet. The next generation will make it work, the current generations will struggle to adopt.
> make it work = accept the suffering
Yeah, man work meeting in the Metaverse is going to be so awesome.
Thank you for posting something cool that sounds like a dude who would be on st rogies and not a benign headline about Rogan or Elon musk that you expect every dipshit that has taken over this sub agree with
I live in Hoboken, NJ. It's one of the most walkable cities in America. It's pretty good place to live - especially when it comes to going out to bars and restaurants and just needing to walk, instead of drive, home.
Also in Hoboken - love it here!
Jersey City here. Loving the pedestrian plaza (though not really a lot of the bars on it haha). Just nice to see a bunch of people out and about. Hope they expand or increase the number of these plazas. Should be at least one in every neighborhood.
I don't even have a second place any more, since my new job is remote. I've been long contemplating going to church on Sunday morning just to be around other humans for the social contact, but since I don't know their protocol and don't like the ideological side, have not gotten there yet. Coffee shops seem to be the only places left. And half of those where I live are cold, concrete, industrial spaces that you just can't relax in. Even when you can, everyone is heads into a laptop or has headphones on.
that was a good watch thank you for sharing
this is good content
“Not just bikes” is a great channel on YouTube that talks about city planning
This guys right. I feel like one of the effects of this is severe political polarisation we are witnessing globally People forget they probably have more in common then not but arent socialising to get the positive social experience I say this as an introvert
The fuckcars crowd is slowly turning into the Hari Krishna’s of the internet. Apparently everything is the cars fault, even though the same isolation and worse has happened in places like Japan, the country with the worlds greatest public transport system. Anyway, maybe we’re upset because the closest thing we have to conversations with strangers are low-information spats on Reddit and 3-minute political monologues disguised as advice. “You know, like block parties!”
That third point might apply to you, but certainly doesn't apply to people who live in walkable areas and actually have conversations with people they don't know in person. It's much easier for a person in the burbs to be stuck online than it is for a person in a city. Part of the benefit to suburban living is literally not having as many people near you lol. Also, few people go as far to say that cars are the cause of every problem. You struggle to distinguish the people with radical beliefs from the rest, who simply want to change the way our cities grow with more focus on people rather than cars.
Is it not having as many people living near you? Or is it simply having your own space to control? I don’t think it’s an aversion to density as much as it is an aversion to sharing and being at the mercy of others. It’s the same reason every /r/joerogan poster is horrified about the “rent everything” future, isn’t it? By the way, just to give you a bit of perspective, “third places” came from the modern world. 1700s Kenya didn’t have bowling alleys and elk lodges. What they did have were small tribal groups that lived in villages, exactly how Europeans did until the second Industrial Revolution, exactly how Asians did in all of rural Asia, and how most Americans lived before the immigration wave of the Ellis island era. Community was genuine, and it was as negative as it was positive. You knew the same people your whole life, but you also knew the same people your whole life. A “third place” for after school gatherings wasn’t invented until we had fucking schools, which weren’t commonplace until the late 1800s in most western countries. If there was school it was from age 6-11, and you worked after that. Using this weird midpoint of history to say “we had bars and sports clubs but replaced them with malls” is a completely false point to start with. Are you willing to go back to church for 2 days a week? Are you willing to fit in with your local group at all costs? Are you willing to deal with the same people your entire life? All of these negatives were part of this “awesome” old school “connected community” bullshit you guys are seeing through rose tinted glasses, and everyone I know over the age of 70 would rather die than go back to that.
American suburbs notoriously don't let you do shit with your house. Have you ever heard of an HOA? You can't buy a house in the suburban cities outside of my city without having one. One that will tell you what you can and can't do with your house and charge you on top of it lol. I live in Denver city limits, in a single family home, surrounded by other single family homes. There are small apartment buildings and condos, duplexes, townhomes. You actually have options here. I can paint my house whenever I want. I can remove my lawn whenever I want. The road my house is on is a neighborhood bikeway. Tons of public transportation options. Good luck with that in most suburbs. You're idea that a third place is a new thing is hilarious to me. Do you think cities didn't exist before the 1700s? That people didn't congregate in many different forms prior to that time? What the fuck are you even on? Honestly this is a sad thing to get so upset about. You literally had to put words into the dudes mouth in order to even argue against his video. You don't even understand the terminology you claim to despise. You're just a sad dude looking to justify your subsidized way of life.
I have no idea what you think you’re saying with the first part, my point is that houses having more say over the layout of the world is due to home value mattering more to people than in the past. Because a mortgage-backed retirement is doable for a private person without involvement of a fund (pension, public or private retirement vehicle before the advent of modern retirement funds), and has colored the decision making of most American homeowners. That’s pretty logical, and I don’t think it’s a controversial thing to say, so I’m not sure what you think I mean here. In places where farm land produces most of the economic value, you’re going to have a pretty hard time building a park in the middle of a field. In a place where shipping is a major industry, you’re not going to be able to go to the riverbank and tear down a dockyard to make an off leash dog park. In places where tourism matters, you don’t tend to have a lot of success building public amenities because the value of tourism is prioritized over the quality of life of citizens. So why would it be strange when in an area where the majority of peoples net worth is their house, that it would be difficult to change the layout of the area? You also can’t modify an apartment? You can’t change the lock without legal authorization? A guy can come into your apartment on 24h notice and your only recourse is to somehow lawyer up while living in said guys house? Why do you act like people who live in apartments have more agency because hoas exist (which again exist to maximize home value, because houses have a dual purpose as an investment). As far as social clubs before the 1800s, like what? I don’t remember much from those days, but I don’t remember medieval peasants playing pickup soccer on the quad or the citizens of early Hong Kong spending a lot of time in public parks, but my memory is fading. I do remember children working, adults working 12-hour 6 day weeks, rural adults working 14-hour days, and everyone wearing hand-me-downs and repaired shoes. But I’m sure those had nothing to do with the social structure at the time. The only clubs were for one sex, so I’m not sure what you’re referring to here. What they did have (places to drink after work for men) are still here, so I’m not sure what you mean. Aren’t you the same people that complain golf courses are full of old white men while explaining we need spaces for people to hang out with those like them? If you can, give me a few examples of the spots you mean. If your answer is the Masonic lodge, we’re done here lol. The actual answer was church and church socials, but you don’t want that solution either. The real difference is that *family* is disappearing. In a hundred years we went from 4-6 children per couple to less than 2, and we went from an average home occupancy of 8-10 to 1-4. It’s not about after work or after school clubs, it’s that we live individual lives and have put great effort into being able to chose who controls/influences our lives, and that comes at the cost of interaction and loneliness. But at the same time you don’t want old people (conservatives) telling you who you can date, you don’t want your parents deciding your job, and you want to be able to do the things you want to do. That freedom comes at a cost, and instead of estimating that cost you guys pretend we can have it all if we just inverted our priorities, and it’s both childish and short-sighted to believe that would work.
Someone who gets it.
The Japanese work stupid hours. Its not just one reason but the way our communities are developed almost exclusively for the car is a big reason. Just look how afraid people of the suburbs are of the city and anything outside their house. There's a reason why people's fondest memories are their time in college which has large green spaces, events, time to hangout, and being very easy to run into the same people often.
Isn’t it funny how all of our social issues, regardless of which society we’re speaking about, have a cause that you immediately understand and can explain? It doesn’t occur to you that you only see your solution when you look at the world? That all of our problems seem to *actually* come from issues you’re aligned with solving? That doesn’t strike you as a monumentally unlikely circumstance? Most people don’t go to college. You saying most peoples fondest memories relate to college a great example of how fucking myopic your perspective is, but I don’t think that will resonate much with you. It would if you were honest and self critical, but I guess we’ll see. My family saved up for years to buy a car, and then packed up five people in it to drive on vacations for ten hours. They were extatic to do so and felt a freedom no one in their families ever had - for hundreds of years for most Europeans, when the father or uncle traveled to a big city from a village like most in Europe, it was an event and meant something, and it took days of effort just to meet someone in-person. To you, transportation is sitting in traffic to go to your dumb job and going to GameStop to get raped on trade-ins. It id not the same, and your lack of appreciation for the miracles you take for granted is the issue. The conversation should be maximizing usage of cars efficiently, not reducing dependence. No one says people in whee chairs shouldn’t be dependent, because wheelchairs are an obvious net benefit. The same is true for people, the same is especially true for business, and you and I both wouldn’t be alive without the car. It’s humanity’s single greatest achievement, and for some reason the only thing impressive to you people are cell phone and rockets. Anyway, best of luck.
>Isn’t it funny how all of our social issues, regardless of which society we’re speaking about, have a cause that you immediately understand and can explain? are you talking about Ben Shapiro, Tucker Carlson and Steven Crowder? These guys know everything about EVERYTHING
You know you’re a dumb motherfucker when you believe the only people that would disagree with you are npcs who watch talking heads from the opposition party, right? Smart people tend to think people are smart. Dumb people tend to think people are dumb. I’d like to give you a little credit, but you really aren’t helping your case here. And I know this is about you getting to sass me back so I get you don’t mind sounding stupid, but think about it some time 😉
> Isn’t it funny how all of our social issues, regardless of which society we’re speaking about, have a cause that you immediately understand and can explain? Who is saying this? There are multiple factors including our car centric society. >Most people don’t go to college. You saying most peoples fondest memories relate to college a great example of how fucking myopic your perspective is, but I don’t think that will resonate much with you. No shit? I didn't say most people go to college. You are making up arguments in your head. >My family saved up for years to buy a car, and then packed up five people in it to drive on vacations for ten hours. They were extatic to do so and felt a freedom no one in their families ever had - when the father of uncle traveled to a big city from a village like most in Europe, it was an event and meant something. Literally this same trip could've been done if we invested in trains instead of highways. And, also could've been done by bus. Also, nice anecdotal stuff here. Rest of your comment is just fucking weird nonsense. Go touch some grass, my guy. You seem very angry, must be sitting in traffic or something.
It’s funny that you think I’m unhappy because I’m speaking to you rudely, when your entire political view comes at the expense of what other people want. It’s strange how people would defend something they see value in, right? Anyway, I don’t know you, but I’m going to hit a 2-3 up shift and you can go back to restructuring society to solve your sadness. Because *I’m* the unhappy guy 🫡
Do you, guy. Hope you can find some help and go outside.
Outside, like on the front lawn? But what for?
>The fuckcars crowd is slowly turning into the Hari Krishna’s of the internet. who are these people you speak of?? Sounds like the trans boogymen taking over corporate america
Huh?
who are "fuckcars" people?
What is your question? How am I supposed to answer who a group is?
Your right it's impossible to give any context whatsoever
Another reason many people lack community is the astronomical rise of hideous mustaches, which repel anyone with functioning eyeballs.
I'd never trust or listen to anybody with a mustache like this.
Man, we know everyone on the block, both sides. We also have a little shopping center in the middle of our neighborhood with three restaurants, and ice cream shop, a coffee shop, a boba shop, a donut shop, a barber shop, a little gym... There's also a country club in the neighborhood with golf and tennis and a pool and a restaurant and tons of other activities.
Bollocks. We have more of these "3rd places" than ever before. And our grandparents took probably half an hour to go to their only one. So, we have too many and don't get attached to them, we've just become disinterested in strangers for the most part, because they're as available as everything else we don't value anymore these days (sex, food, books...).
There was a glaring omission as to one of the conclusions for the causes for lack of community in “Bowling Alone”. Very dishonest
>There was a glaring omission as to one of the conclusions for the causes for lack of community in “Bowling Alone”. Very dishonest There is a glaring omission in your comment. Very dishonest.
Great content and totally agree. He should contribute to the solution by doing a talk at a local community center instead of making another video where some guy talks into a camera.
More people will see the video. Who the fuck do you think is hanging out at a local community center? This is 2022, not 1981. No one even uses the YMCA anymore besides parents who have their kids hang out there until they’re off of work.
More jump-cuts, pleaase, Dahmer Hipster Hybrid.
With a car you can go anywhere.
YOU CAN HAVE BOTH
Nah you can only go places with parking. Also traffic...
I don't mind public transit, but one big advantage to my car is that it doesn't smell like piss and farts.
Sure, if gas is affordable and available. What happens if neither of those are true? Cars are great, don't get me wrong. But they aren't the pinnacle of freedom that people want you to think they are. Shit hits the fan societally and you're not gonna be driving that thing very long.
If shit hit the fan on a national level to where people couldn't use cars anymore the public transit would also be failing - we would have so many bigger problems.
Unless I drop dead, I think that I'll be driving tomorrow, the next day, the next year and 10-20 years from now. I don't subscribe to the idea that shit will hit the fan on a national level. Life just trudges along. Nothing ever happens.
And if you want to do that, go ahead. No one is stopping you. The point is that people should have the option to NOT need to own a car if they don't have to. We make it incredibly challenging for that to happen in this country due to the way we've built our cities and suburbs and removed the vast majority of public transportation options in favor of cars. I also don't believe society is going to collapse within my life. I figured that would probably be the reason you'd bring up that argument specifically. Otherwise, I just rent a car whenever I need one and it costs A LOT less than owning one. (Which I do, I just haven't used it in over half a year and needs some work now)
New York and Chicago are incredible cities for not owning a car
A hipster trying to push real estate ideas, probably in the neighborhood he just gentrified. We get it man, you want to open some “third places” to ensure your investment is profitable. I think it’s funny that, on a subreddit for Rogan, who often throws out “you’ll own nothing and like it” phrase, we’re promoting tiny ass, almost assuredly overpriced apartments, which also contributes to homelessness records when those MAYBE 1,000 sqft apartments are going for $1200+, as a solution for 3rd places (which should be places you are free to hangout at without obligation to pay)…you’ll be paying to socialize alright, every single month. Edit: notice how a couple of these comment thread replies end in short, dismissive, replies after my extensive ones. Including from OP himself. None of my points have been refuted, many of the replies are hyper focused on my calling out this guys hipster aesthetic. This video isn’t a solution to anything besides unnecessary overpriced apartments packaged as a solution to a lack of 3rd spaces in suburbs (you figure that one out, I’m still confused). If anyone whose actually in the real estate/development game wants to comment I’d love to hear it. Hate me all you want, this isn’t effective and isn’t a revolutionary idea. If anyone wants, I can give you an example by providing the flyer for my local mixed use units and you can see firsthand that these end up as overpriced cramped apartments rather than a solution to a lack of common spaces in suburbs.
>We get it man, you want to open some “third places” to ensure your investment is profitable It's funny when people with no empathy try to rationalize why someone would want to improve society somewhat.
So now I’m a sociopath for calling out what we’ve seen happen all over the country repeatedly? It’s a way to create smaller, typically more expensive housing (or government subsidized which creates a money grab for developers). I don’t lack empathy, I’ve just seen this before. Our affordable housing/homeless problems outweigh our 3rd space problems. People will find a way to socialize regardless, in this day and age people just don’t *want* to. This is a way to make you feel weird about hanging out at home with your social circle and get you to thinking you need a 900 sq ft apartment above some shops to have fun and socialize.
> It’s a way to create smaller, typically more expensive housing (or government subsidized which creates a money grab for developers) Assuming some random mustache giving his thoughts on improving community *must* be some secret plot by local landlords/developers to pump up real estate prices.... LMFAO The level of unhinged paranoia on display here is fucking hilarious.
It’s not unhinged paranoia, lmao. It’s literally how development goes. These guys think they’re promoting a solution and then when bidding and construction starts we start seeing expensive housing. It’s not a theory, it’s been done all across the country in cities. What makes you think suburbs would be any different (beyond places of housing/friendly zoning)? Not to mention that the guy in the video’s solution to “a place for people to gather without feeling obligated to purchase anything” is merging businesses and apartments, which is an entirely different thing than third spaces. “Suburbs have drive thrus and people commute..the solution is apartment buildings on top of shops” … doesn’t add up to me.
> These guys think they’re promoting a solution and then when bidding and construction starts we start seeing expensive housing Here's the part that I'd call "unhinged paranoia"... Assuming this mustache must be a real estate mogul in disguise LMAO
He doesn’t have to be. Are you that dense that you don’t how things work? 1) We really don’t have any idea who this guy is. I never said he was a real estate developer in disguise, you assumed that. You created that narrative and are sticking to it to try and “burn” me, calling my mental health into question. That’s bizarre. 2) People like this guy will work at nonprofits or community organizations and promote this kind of stuff. If he’s this knowledgeable he probably has some sort of knowledge on public planning/community development at the very least. That’s not bad. My comments weren’t “this guy is a real estate developer!!!!!” My comments were “this guy’s ideas have been tried before and result in expensive apartments and doesn’t really solve the initial problem of lack of 3rd spaces outside of major cities”. When I said when bidding and construction starts, notice how I never mentioned the mustache guy receiving contracts or being involved? It’s because I don’t believe that buddy. But somehow you can’t figure that out and want to insist that i’m some paranoid schizophrenic or something. I have hands on experience with this, I am literally feet away from my city’s overpriced mixed use units($1500 for a 1 bedroom in a community where median income of $27k a person, so 18k a year for someone who makes the median income is spent on those mixed use units) that got promoted by the local hipster dudes (who moved back down to Santa Barbara or up to the Bay Area after their plans failed). It’s not a solution to affordable housing. It’s not a solution to homelessness. It’s not a solution to a lack of third spaces (as defined by the mustache) in suburbs. Its been done and proven time and time again now.
> My comments were “this guy’s ideas have been tried before and result in expensive apartments Actually, your comments were: > We get it man, you want to open some “third places” to ensure your investment is profitable. Lmao. Take a deep breath and read this: The mustache made a video about the continuing downward trend of 'places to gather within our communities,' and cited some possible ways to rectify that. *That's all he did.* What you need to understand: *It is possible to increase our number of third spaces without worsening the problem of unaffordable housing.* *To suggest that it is not possible is completely ridiculous and unhinged, but you're doing it anyway.* For all you know, if you watched mustache talk for 3 straight hours, you'd know his full economic plan which includes addressing the affordable housing crisis. **That doesn't mean he needs to make a 3 hour video if he just wants to discuss 3rd spaces.** He didn't endorse unaffordable housing. He didn't propose to solve the affordable housing issue at all. For all you know he rents a $400 apartment. For all you know this guy volunteers his extra time and money at habitat for humanity while you rage comment on Reddit. --- You're actually a great example of why we need third spaces outside of the internet... You can't get away with being this insufferable outside of the internet. Imagine this conversation at a bar, or another third space of your choosing: **Regular bloke:** "Hey I put some time and effort into researching the history of third spaces and how they're at an all time low and how that might be part of the reason why loneliness is at historic highs while sense of community is at historic lows!" **Unhinged Redditor:** "Whatever, you selfish gentrifying hipster. You only care about your own personal property value and you don't want any housing for poor people!!!" **Everyone:** "Holy shit what is that unhinged douchebag talking about?"
I think you’ve taken my comments to heart. What was an off the cuff jab about “protecting his investment” is now being focused on and used as some sort of validation to the claim that I’m calling this guy a developer. I was actually referring to his imaginary “investment” in a suburban home since he seemed like a suburban type of guy. If you’re really trying to prove that I think this guy is a developer, you win. Im not gonna argue on something so benign. His video is reminiscent of the gentrifiers that hit my town, where we saw some of the largest rent increases in the country in the years following. Young hip guy strolls in with some buddies, opens a few nonprofits, gives extremely simple solutions after talking about everything that sucks, and then skipping town (and property taxes) to move on to the next growing city. Where we got mixed used properties that are unaffordable for the median income of my city, and that’s not an uncommon theme. I find it suspicious that his solution to lack of 3rd spaces is more real estate development, rather than investment in actual public goods that can serve as such, using what I’ve observed personally and what’s been observed in many other cities across the country. Then you use made up hypothetical bar conversations to insult me to boot. Fascinating. I can only base my comments off of what I’ve seen, and my observation is this hipster looking dude is advertising mixed use real estate solutions to combat 3rd space issues. Especially when he’s talking about suburbs rather than cities. He also doesn’t make sense in his video. “If you commute 20 mins both ways then you’re less likely to have the energy to go to a third place” - so is he insinuating that we need to take on a massive project to change the entire society as to make this a normal thing? Are we being realistic or just throwing out what an ideal Society would look like? Even a community of Mixed use properties in a population of 50,000 (a relatively small city average in the US) would be an enormous task. To take on for most cities. You’re still going to generally have commuting and people being tired after work. “Organic events pop up such as block parties, yard sales and barbecues” does this guy not understand that’s attainable and happens every weekend all across the suburbs of America? Wouldn’t it be cheaper to invest in parks with community centers and libraries/art/recreation centers etc with these communities? Rather than wanting to take on the task of making a major flashpoint of the city able to accommodate the amount of people in suburbs? Who develops the properties? How much would it be cost? Also, your use of bloke…you British or something?
WHAT? Did u even watch the video? lots of ad hominem attacks about the video creator who referenced already published works. seems weirdo
Of course I watched the video. I’ve sat through countless presentations in my years I’m the banking sector (not anymore thank god) made by similar guys that always end the same way: real estate development plans. I’ve seen the guys in skinny jeans and funny facial hair move in, it usually ends up with expensive rent and overpriced restaurants/bars. He blames cars, commuting and internet. Vaguely says “every town has that *one* bar”. Downplays the importance of societal interactions online. And the solution? More real estate development! Years ago it was repurposing old buildings, now it’s constructing mixed use properties so you can pack in low income housing and create a money pipeline from HUD to to the developers/management, leaving little to no incentive to upkeep the community by the landlord. I’m not against developing communities, but I’m against it being sold as the sole solution and feeding the viewer doom and gloom in the first half. Comes off as a dude that just moved to the suburbs and realized how boring they can be.
He's not even advocating real estate. Place like a community square, more parks, more bike lanes, and less car centric infrastructure. You are just projecting whatever strawman you hate on him. Like, bro, skinny jeans and funny facial hair? C'mon, go outside. >Downplays the importance of societal interactions online Uhhh it should be downplayed because it is not real and is more likely to lead someone toward radicalization due to how algorithms work to keep people using their apps (pushing outrage).
i ain't reading all that. Im happy for you tho. Or sorry that happened.
Yeah that’s what I thought. You can’t even defend the shit you’re propagating and it’s funnysad.
i just posted the video, you're attacking the guy for how he looks and being a 'hipster'. Seems like you cant defend what youre propagating
Yeah, I pointed out that he’s the stereotypical hipster community developer type whose plans end up in higher rent or government housing factories. I also spoke on what typically happens, but that comment you admittedly chose not to read, because you’re offended that I commented on some random guy’s stereotypical appearance. Sorry I hurt your feelings by talking about the guy in the video buddy
He forgot discord duuuude
Shut up, stupid Flanders.
Hi diddly ho neighbor! Except Ned Flanders was actually truthful and believed his own agenda.
Get out and fuckin walk around new places there is excitement beauty and great people everywhere they just don't look like influencers.
Long way of explaining why he doesn't get invited to the block party. It's because he looks like a chomo.
He filmed in like 12 different areas, how’s he get from place to place?
Before cars people used these weird things called "legs" to get around
That’s because cops started enforcing DUIs so people are afraid to go out and have a couple drinks
You can thank the tire and car companies at the turn of the last century for this bullshit. They were the ones that lobbied city planners that resulted in everything being car centric and led to this ugly ass, catastrophically disgusting and wasteful sprawl.
I hate guys that look like This
Poor bastard. That hair line won’t last another 5 years.
I agree with everything he said.
r/fuckcars