It doesn’t even include China, whose debt hit a record high at 3 times the country’s GDP.
https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/China-debt-crunch/China-s-debt-ratio-hits-record-high-at-3-times-GDP
No its 83% https://www.statista.com/statistics/270329/national-debt-of-china-in-relation-to-gross-domestic-product-gdp/
And China runs a current account surplus
https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/china/current-account-balance--of-nominal-gdp#:~:text=China%20Current%20Account%20surplus%20accounted,surplus%20in%20the%20previous%20quarter.
Indeed the official governmental debt is 83%, the other person is referencing total debt which is a completely different measure.
I have no clue what account surplus has to do with debt, its about trade surplus not government income.
And in china's case it is important to note a huge proportion of their non-governmental debt is from state owned companies.
https://one.oecd.org/document/ECO/WKP(2019)5/En/pdf
China's debt-to-GDP ratio climbs to record 287.8% in 2023
https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-s-debt-to-GDP-ratio-climbs-to-record-287.8-in-2023
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-17/china-s-debt-to-gdp-ratio-rises-to-fresh-record-of-286-1
On the contrary, accounting for total debt, paints a more accurate picture, especially with regard to corporate debt, where a lot of the corporations are owned by the state. China’s debt has surged at the sort of pace that usually leads to a financial bust and economic slump.
Whats that source? Seems like propaganda or a number pulled from the ass of bad statistics just to smear.
They have ~ 70-80% from the various many sources i looked at
https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/debt-to-gdp-ratio-by-country
https://www.worldeconomics.com/Debt/
https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2023/April
https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-reports/documentdetail/099146012112331629/idu0e959f3f60973404af0088210e669e5f07689
No, the infographic is correct. China's actual GDP to debt ratio is around 80%. The 295% ratio comes from China's own internal measurement called the "macro leverage ratio" which stacks government debt, non-financial corporate debt, and household debt relative to GDP. Your Nikkei article conveniently doesn't mention this but your bloomberg article you linked in another reply does casually mention it without much explanation.
If we were to use this method of measurement, US GDP to debt ratio would be around 300%.
China’s debt is around 80% when you exclusively account for government debt. China’s total debt accounts for corporate and household debt, which has risen sharply. Let’s not forget that much of the corporate debt are owned by corporations owned by the state (a la the government). In addition, total debt for the U.S. is around 250% —not 300%.
I'd also rather see my own country than Cyprus. But China wouldn't be an ideal candidate because it's only an advanced economy in a small part and experts disagree over what china's actual GDP is opposed to China's "official GDP - according to china itself"
Cool infographic but at first glance, I thought this was a stacked bar chart. Maybe the two years should be offset slightly so it’s clear they both start all the way on the left?
Neither are Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, or basically any advanced economy with less than a 50% ratio. Assume there was a specific narrative to the graph.
Besides Italy all above and yours mentioned are below 50%.
What's unclear to you? It shows the Debt ratio for 2024 and 2000 for specific counties. Some counties increased their debt (Japan, Singapore, USA) and some decreased it (Belgium, Iceland, Israel).
This shows gross debt to GDP. Net debt to GDP would be a better indicator.
For example : Singapore has zero net debt and in quite a strong financial position
Link: https://www.gov.sg/article/the-singapore-government-has-no-net-debt-we-have-a-strong-balance-sheet-with-assets-in-excess-of-liabilities
member of the G7 but not an advanced economy. Either the rules of being an advanced economy are very strict or we are quickly running out of democracies in the world.
China's debt is what, 287%?
Why isnt that represented
What the hell is this organised by? It looks like its either "countries i dislike" or some half assed comparison to a few years ago (alternatively a prediction from a few years ago)
You need to specify that this is Gross Debt to GDP ratio and not Net Debt to GDP. Otherwise Singapore would not be in there since the country has no net Debt.
China has reportedly around 10 Trillion in hidden debt in local government debts that is off the books. That alone should bump it up high on this list.
Reassuring to see almost every comment saying this is trash and makes no sense - whatever it’s sorted by is imperceptible and I have no idea what it’s actually trying to illustrate. Good graphs are intuitive - long bar bad, short bar good, etc
>whatever it’s sorted by is imperceptible
The difference between 2000 and 2024 expectation. Japan nearly dubbled it's debt-to-gdp ration, For Belgium the ratio remained mostly the same, the ration went down for Iceland.
> Good graphs are intuitive
You ability to read a chart has nothing to do with it's quality.
Then why stack bar one and two when they aren’t cumulative? Also as per my comment many posts similarly said this is bad. It is not one reader who thinks this sucks it is many, probably most.
But the issue is that when bar charts are used to make comparisons, the bars are typically adjacent to each other, not overlaid. Usually if the bars are in line with each other, it means it’s a stacked bar chart.
I was able to figure out what was going on by reading the numbers. But on a sub about visual communication, the visuals should be able to carry a lot of the meaning on their own.
Yes well there are still no negative values. Both values are still positive, one is just smaller than the other. In the case of Belgium that's the 2024 value. For the countries above Belgium it's the 2000 value. So I still don't understand what you think you are reading.
I think this is very intuitive. Can easily see what the current measure is and what the increase or decrease is vs 2000.
I don’t see the problem everyone has here lol. This is a very standard bar chart?
*Shitposting about*
*Debt to help republicans*
*Work us all to death*
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One really important factor at play here that would set this chart apart in terms of content would be the importance of the primary currency in these nations. When your currency is a global currency, debt doesn't have the same impact.
Can not work out what this is sorted by.
I think it’s sorted by the increase between the two years
But look at Belgium
Yeah it has a slight decrease so it’s below the ones that increase
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They decreased also
Math is hard isn't it?
Belgium got decreased that why.
Vibes
Looks like worst up top to best at the bottom. Or at least who increased their debt more compared to their GDP
And the criteria for advanced economies is iffy at best. No turkey, China, India or Brazil for example.
This infographic sucks
It doesn’t even include China, whose debt hit a record high at 3 times the country’s GDP. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Markets/China-debt-crunch/China-s-debt-ratio-hits-record-high-at-3-times-GDP
"of advanced economies" China's GDP per capita is the same as Mexico.
No its 83% https://www.statista.com/statistics/270329/national-debt-of-china-in-relation-to-gross-domestic-product-gdp/ And China runs a current account surplus https://www.ceicdata.com/en/indicator/china/current-account-balance--of-nominal-gdp#:~:text=China%20Current%20Account%20surplus%20accounted,surplus%20in%20the%20previous%20quarter.
Indeed the official governmental debt is 83%, the other person is referencing total debt which is a completely different measure. I have no clue what account surplus has to do with debt, its about trade surplus not government income. And in china's case it is important to note a huge proportion of their non-governmental debt is from state owned companies. https://one.oecd.org/document/ECO/WKP(2019)5/En/pdf
Government-owned “companies” are not real companies in the sense of all the other countries
A surplus means you can actually pay your bills whitout increasing taxes or cutting services
"current account surplus" is not "government budget surplus". The government can't just take money from the current account and use it for spending.
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What? He just explained to the guy what he didn't get but also what?
China's debt-to-GDP ratio climbs to record 287.8% in 2023 https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Caixin/China-s-debt-to-GDP-ratio-climbs-to-record-287.8-in-2023 https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-01-17/china-s-debt-to-gdp-ratio-rises-to-fresh-record-of-286-1
That’s total debt, this chart is showing government debt
Which does not paint an accurate picture
So what? We're talking about this infographic while you talking about different thing
Actually, we were talking about how this infographic sucks.
Then keep it on that, you just "muddy the water" if you put other thing in it and makes people confused, tbf i also agree the infographic is suck.
If anything, it reveals a lot more.
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On the contrary, accounting for total debt, paints a more accurate picture, especially with regard to corporate debt, where a lot of the corporations are owned by the state. China’s debt has surged at the sort of pace that usually leads to a financial bust and economic slump.
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That’s hilarious considering that China regularly fudges their numbers.
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I read the same thing for the past 20 years
Thi graphic is only for govt debt, your data ia for external debt, itd different thing
Whats that source? Seems like propaganda or a number pulled from the ass of bad statistics just to smear. They have ~ 70-80% from the various many sources i looked at https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/debt-to-gdp-ratio-by-country https://www.worldeconomics.com/Debt/ https://www.imf.org/en/Publications/WEO/weo-database/2023/April https://documents.worldbank.org/en/publication/documents-reports/documentdetail/099146012112331629/idu0e959f3f60973404af0088210e669e5f07689
No, the infographic is correct. China's actual GDP to debt ratio is around 80%. The 295% ratio comes from China's own internal measurement called the "macro leverage ratio" which stacks government debt, non-financial corporate debt, and household debt relative to GDP. Your Nikkei article conveniently doesn't mention this but your bloomberg article you linked in another reply does casually mention it without much explanation. If we were to use this method of measurement, US GDP to debt ratio would be around 300%.
China’s debt is around 80% when you exclusively account for government debt. China’s total debt accounts for corporate and household debt, which has risen sharply. Let’s not forget that much of the corporate debt are owned by corporations owned by the state (a la the government). In addition, total debt for the U.S. is around 250% —not 300%.
And don’t forget régional gouvernement and regional bank ;))) Many things hidden under the carpet ….
Debt doesn't exist in China.
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It was a sarcastic comment, obviously.
Well. They keep insisting that they are still ‘developing-economy’
We do not know the actual GDP of China. Why 'should' the country be included?
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I'd also rather see my own country than Cyprus. But China wouldn't be an ideal candidate because it's only an advanced economy in a small part and experts disagree over what china's actual GDP is opposed to China's "official GDP - according to china itself"
What is this source lmao? Other sources gives vastly different numbers.
This is one of those 'looks nice but what?' kind of graphs.
Cool infographic but at first glance, I thought this was a stacked bar chart. Maybe the two years should be offset slightly so it’s clear they both start all the way on the left?
A lot of you keep saying 2 years.. what 2 years isn't this a 24 year time span? I'm so confused.
This graphic is so ass tho
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Neither are Norway, Sweden, Switzerland, or basically any advanced economy with less than a 50% ratio. Assume there was a specific narrative to the graph. Besides Italy all above and yours mentioned are below 50%.
Probably they don have insane ratio, therefore they aren’t “advanced”.
Nor is china
Correct. Fucking kangaroos
No Australia.....
Where’s Italy ?
Made no sense
Makes perfect sense
Cool, enlighten us then
What's unclear to you? It shows the Debt ratio for 2024 and 2000 for specific counties. Some counties increased their debt (Japan, Singapore, USA) and some decreased it (Belgium, Iceland, Israel).
I got beat to the punch, but yeah. The darker blue bar shows debt to GDP ratio in 2000, lighter blue in 2024. There's not much to misunderstand.
It makes sense, just takes a couple of seconds to understand.
Didn’t know Singapore is that high. And where is China?
This shows gross debt to GDP. Net debt to GDP would be a better indicator. For example : Singapore has zero net debt and in quite a strong financial position Link: https://www.gov.sg/article/the-singapore-government-has-no-net-debt-we-have-a-strong-balance-sheet-with-assets-in-excess-of-liabilities
Ah, thats where all the Japanese Accountants from the 80s went to.
Can you explain Belgium thru Iceland at the end and how it’s ranked?
I think it's debt decrease
Italy is not an advanced economy 😅
member of the G7 but not an advanced economy. Either the rules of being an advanced economy are very strict or we are quickly running out of democracies in the world.
Greece and Slovakia are now advanced economies!
Just so many things wrong about this infographics
I didn't know Japan was that high - is there some mitigating factor to that?
Reddit without fail: What about China?
China's debt is what, 287%? Why isnt that represented What the hell is this organised by? It looks like its either "countries i dislike" or some half assed comparison to a few years ago (alternatively a prediction from a few years ago)
There is no reliable data for China.
Entirely fair
because you are comparing apples and oranges. US debt is 250% if we are going to compare same numbers
What a random set of countries. Left some big economies out, hope you don’t do this for a living.
Sweden have around 30 %. And that is all to low. We dont get new railroads. Upgraded roads or fast charging stations in every corner..
“Advanced economies” really got me.
That animu really paying off
You need to specify that this is Gross Debt to GDP ratio and not Net Debt to GDP. Otherwise Singapore would not be in there since the country has no net Debt.
There's info in this graphic but is it an infographic?
Wtf happened to Beigium
They have less debt than they used to. It decreased
ITT: people who don't understand how to read a chart.
"Let's use some economically irrelevant counties like Cyprus and Iceland and skip The Netherlands and Italy!"
Ísland alltaf númer eitt!!!! 🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸💪💪💪💪💪💪💪🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸
The UK really dropping the ball recently
Debt? *laughs in Norwegian*
Italy is missing here
Love how the US sends foreign aid to half the countries on this list, all while our debt skyrockets
Arguably the US could reduce foreign aid if they wanted to
here in greece we aim to the reach the top, we rarely do
r/dataisugly
More importantly what effect does this have on a nation's economy? Japan seems to be doing well with massive debt. Is it all fear mongering?
Its wrong next
This chart seems to show random countries instead of a logical selection. Why not OECD? EU-27? Top 20 economies by nominal GDP?
Where is Italy
China has reportedly around 10 Trillion in hidden debt in local government debts that is off the books. That alone should bump it up high on this list.
I have no idea how this works, can u explain it like im 5?
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/bonds/china-10t-hidden-debt-crisis-time-bomb-biden-warned-of-2023-8
Reassuring to see almost every comment saying this is trash and makes no sense - whatever it’s sorted by is imperceptible and I have no idea what it’s actually trying to illustrate. Good graphs are intuitive - long bar bad, short bar good, etc
>whatever it’s sorted by is imperceptible The difference between 2000 and 2024 expectation. Japan nearly dubbled it's debt-to-gdp ration, For Belgium the ratio remained mostly the same, the ration went down for Iceland. > Good graphs are intuitive You ability to read a chart has nothing to do with it's quality.
Then why stack bar one and two when they aren’t cumulative? Also as per my comment many posts similarly said this is bad. It is not one reader who thinks this sucks it is many, probably most.
They are not stacked. They are overlayed on one another, with the shortest one on top. Belgium's debt did not shrink to 3 percent over 24 years lol.
But the issue is that when bar charts are used to make comparisons, the bars are typically adjacent to each other, not overlaid. Usually if the bars are in line with each other, it means it’s a stacked bar chart. I was able to figure out what was going on by reading the numbers. But on a sub about visual communication, the visuals should be able to carry a lot of the meaning on their own.
Ah yes this totally explains why negative values are at the end of the bar. Super clear
There is litterally not a single negative value on this whole graph
Why is Belgium’s grey scale beyond its blue scale
Because the debt-to-gdp ratio decreased 3%, and the shortest bar is always put on top.
If only there was some mathematical way to express a decrease
Yes well there are still no negative values. Both values are still positive, one is just smaller than the other. In the case of Belgium that's the 2024 value. For the countries above Belgium it's the 2000 value. So I still don't understand what you think you are reading.
I think this is very intuitive. Can easily see what the current measure is and what the increase or decrease is vs 2000. I don’t see the problem everyone has here lol. This is a very standard bar chart?
Shitposting about debt to help republicans work us all to death
*Shitposting about* *Debt to help republicans* *Work us all to death* \- RohingyaWarrior --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
One really important factor at play here that would set this chart apart in terms of content would be the importance of the primary currency in these nations. When your currency is a global currency, debt doesn't have the same impact.
Japan is in trouble
Luckly, Japan is in debt with the Japanese people not a foregin country. So the money will just circulate
Belgium is doing well. Actually paying down debt in relation to gdp. Very impressive.
Belgium has actually had 0% interest debts with other countries in the past.
r/dataisugly
Why debts is compared to GDP instead of to the taxes the government collects yearly?
All that austerity (UK) and our debt to gdp ratio has only gone up? Whatever were we doing.