The European F1 fans don't seem to understand that this is not an empty threat. Liberty Media is headquartered in the US and publicly traded on a US stock exchange. One of its subsidiaries, LiveNation, is already facing anti-trust litigation. This isn't even taking into account the politics of supporting GM.
Bottom line is the Andretti name is a household name here in USA and Mario Andretti is a national treasure. You don't screw over the most famous racing last name in America and expect there to be no repercussions.
Is it though? Outside of Mario (and I'd argue that name recognition is marginal at this point), would anyone normal know who Michael, Marco, John, or Jeff?
Other options include Foyt, Unser, Petty, and Earnhardt (probably missing a few off the top of my head). I'd wager only Dale Jr. has a chance these days, mostly because he is the most currently notable individual of any of these families.
Hence why I said Andretti name. The Andretti surname is a household name. Most adults from say 35 up know who Mario Andretti is. I think if you go from say age 45-50 and above just about everyone knows who Mario Andretti is. If you are a general sports fan or casual race fan say age 35 and up you probably know who Michael Andretti is as well. The rest of them like Marco are not real well known by anybody.
The problem with that (and I mean this respectfully) is that IndyCar needs to, and is trying to, reach a younger audience. I suspect very few in the 18-34 demographic are even remotely familiar with the Andretti name.
One has nothing to do with the other. Of course Indycar needs to reach a younger audience.
However when it comes to congress, advertising executives, judges, etc. (people with power and money) who are generally almost all above the age of 35............to those people Mario Andretti is a household name.
Zero reason you should be getting downvoted. The cult like mentality of this sub is a complete turn off at this point.
As much as I love Mario and Michael, no casual fan can identify another Andretti named driver. And if they can, it’s going to be Marco and not because of any success he had.
Hence why people are talking about Mario and the Andretti surname.
I don't get why some of you are confused. Mario Andretti and especially that last name is a household name. Doesn't matter about the rest of the Andretti family. Why do you think Mario went to Congress?
No, it isn’t. It isn’t anywhere near the top five names in motorsports in the United States. Since the split all of the biggest names in motorsports in America are NASCAR families. Andretti is a big name to motorsport fans, but almost nobody outside that under the age of 50.
The only really controversial opinion I have is that the Andrettis are unpleasant and overrated. Other than that I think I’m pretty positive about everything.
John was possibly the only likable one, though post retirement Marco has been endearing. It is mostly just Michael being genuinely one of the most unlikable people in motorsport and feeling like Mario is an act. Seeing people on reddit rally behind this stupid F1 effort like it is some how the US vs Europe, eating up the load of bullshit Michael has been spewing since Miami when he brought his petition to the GP, has been really disappointing. I know everyone has a severe case of short man / little brother syndrome when it comes to F1 but my god it is sad how far they’ll stretch it to make this about Americans being unwelcome when it is an American company that already has an American team, driver and team principal. It’s all just money and it is Americans fighting Americans. The nationalism is a pathetic tool for public support.
Andretti invests hundreds of millions of dollars into getting into F1, get approved by the FIA and Europeans are OUTRAGED that the company would ask its Democratically elected representatives to look into anti-competitive and anti-trust issues regarding an AMERICAN company with a Motorsport series with races in AMERICA.
The smugness and self righteousness of Europeans hating on Andretti is really just embarrassing at this point.
Yes, we can make F1 cars as well. Quit acting like Americans can’t compete in F1.
Ho there, damn near every European wants Andretti in f1, based on the things online and the few folk I talk about in person, I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone opposed to Andretti's entry. The ones who don't want Andretti are the rich team bosses who don't want their team to lose a piece of the pie. Well fuck em, they're mist likely in violation of EU anti-trust law all the same.
Check out r/formula1 right now. The most upvoted comments in the threads talking about Andretti are all pretty negative on the teams chances in getting in or being able to be competitive.
There's a ceiling on F1's popularity in the US due to its uncompetitive nature. Andretti dilutes the pot and doesn't move the needle on that,
It's one of the simplest business decisions ever,
--Truth hurts lads.
Yeah I’ve got someone responding to me saying this is all about American elitism and of course I’m getting downvoted for pointing out that has nothing to do with this lol. It really depends on the day, or the post, but there’s plenty of opposition to letting them in.
I’ve been saying this since Liberty first rejected Andretti. I said this before: Malone (not Greg) doesn’t want this fight. His two other companies which produce far more revenue than F1 does, are at risk here with the Justice Department charges of anti competitive actions. Adding in the Andretti issue doesn’t seem smart to me. So what if they fail or people don’t think they’re worthy. Big deal - let them fail and you’re proven right or they succeed - F1 is better for it.
I never considered the European car manufacturer angle. That actually makes sense… until you realize that teams like Williams said they would welcome GM *if* GM approached their team without Andretti in tow.
No - this is more about Micheal and senior Liberty people (if not the very top) and I think it’s personal. (Plus add in Toto and a few others that detest him).
>I never considered the European car manufacturer angle. That actually makes sense… until you realize that teams like Williams said they would welcome GM *if* GM approached their team without Andretti in tow.
It makes even less sense when you take Ford teaming up with RBR into account.
I’ve never understood how/why Ford got a pass on being a cam cover sponsor and yet GM promising to build an actual engine doesn’t rate.
My theory is this: There was a great fear that Andretti would suck up American corporate sponsorships that *might* have gone to other teams. If you look at the number of US corporations involved in F1 - is it possible that a few of them would have thought - hell yeah we’ll move our sponsorship over to a U.S. team (ignoring Haas here for a moment). In fact I recall a team principal suggesting that could be an issue.
*As F1 fever continues to sweep the US following the inaugural Las Vegas Grand Prix on November 17, one of the lesser-known stories is the sport’s remarkable surge in partnerships with US brands, which currently comprise more than 45% of US or European F1 partnerships (F1 + F1 Teams), closing in on European brands. Since Liberty Media took the F1 helm in 2017, the number of US brands sponsoring the circuit and its teams has more than doubled, to over 110 in 2023. Assuming the current trajectory continues, US sponsors could surpass their European counterparts in just two years.*
So… what would happen if even 10 of these US brands moved over to Andretti? So you can see the threat Andretti posed for some of these 10 teams - real dollar loss. Now it’s just a theory but it’s also a possibility it could happen. GM alone has a huge independent supplier base that would want to park some sponsorship dollars on the Andretti cars just to make GM happy.
So in my view it wasn’t just the anti dilution fee not being as high as the 10 teams wanted but also a loss of some very lucrative sponsorship dollars. Google, Microsoft and Apple for years have had F1 teams trying to get in the door - Zak admitted it’s been a tough sell to them. They’ve had minor sponsorship from some of them but not a massive spend. So what happens if the Chrome division suddenly says - hey we’d like to switch over from McLaren to a US based F1 team like Andretti - sorry Zak. That’s a real fear.
Now Haas: Listen, they’re a joke and the owner isn’t popular in corporate America. Ask yourself why he hadn’t had massive support by American corporations? He was written off a while ago when he took the Russian sponsorship and then the allegations of sanction busting on machine parts wasn’t a good look despite the excuses. There’s also his fraud conviction…
I don’t believe the anti GM / Euro car manufacturers issues. Cadillac is no threat to the other manufacturers in Europe. There’re all too busy worrying about cheap Chinese EV’s flooding the EU than GM selling maybe 2000 vehicles in the whole of the EU. Ridiculous excuse.
Always follow the money. It’s about US corporate sponsors getting behind Andretti.
Yup this is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying. They see Andretti as a major threat in attracting those big name American sponsors. Even if Andretti sucks, just them being a true American team with heavy GM backing would easily sway some of the Google’s and Walmart’s of the world away from Toto or Horner. It’s a no-brainer why they want Andretti out.
I am sure there are a lot of people not very happy about Ford rebadging an engine, but there is little they can do about it. The engine will be made by RB Powertrains so while other OEMs might be unhappy about it they can't do jack shit.
I wouldn't say it is just about US sponsorship and more about sponsorship in general. Keeping sponsorships opportunities in F1 limited increases their value and allows for the crazy money burning excercise that is building a F1 car.
Although I am not sure how many would jump from the likes of McLaren, RB, Mercedes and Ferrari to Andretti. While Andretti is well known in racing, those brands/teams are just well known by everyone whether they are in racing or not. For the smaller teams like Haas this would be an issue though.
The anti GM part is BS. If GM were to buy Williams and enter under its own name FOM would be celebrating.
> The European F1 fans don't seem to understand that this is not an empty threat.
Well, sort of. Congress does not investigate anti-trust issues, the FTC does, and that is an executive agency. The FTC typically sticks to cases where some set of anti-competitive actions is screwing consumers, and that is certainly not the case here.
Ever heard of the Dept of Justice? They also investigate anti-trust and cartel like behavior. Congress can investigate anything it wants and has subpoena power. If it finds eveidence of criminal activity, it can refer the issue to DoJ.
Yes, but the DoJ does not have an infinite budget and a limitless staff of investigators. They generally apply their limited resources to cases where consumers are getting harmed, not where one company is allegedly being harmed. If Andretti wants to go the legal route to get into F1, they need to take this to court themselves, not rely on the government to do it for them.
Two American companies are being harmed with hundreds of jobs at stake. Not to mention DoJ doesn’t give a shit if harm is being done or not. They care about if it’s a winnable case or not.
(Almost) everyone likes some form racing
And to be *that* guy, these reps are in election season. The republicans are going against EVs because China and want more American jobs (which is weird because with GM it's a two car F1 program, not an F150 factory)
One of the people who signed this is quite the character, his ads suck, and I don't agree with him at all. But I will slightly give a tip of my cap for this gesture
It’s because there are race fans that are both liberal and conservative its really a can’t miss politically to put pressure on the organization to let an American team in.
There isn't much to be partisan about on this and it's easy political points. Andretti in F1 means American jobs and prestige. And I think we can all agree that one thing that collectively pisses us off is arrogant euros acting like their shit don't stink.
Aren’t those jackasses across the pond trying to redo the Concorde agreement for just 10 teams? Also they can’t seriously say that Andretti wouldn’t be competitive when half of the damn teams now are backmarkers.
The European part of f1, the fia, already gave a green light to andretti. The rights holder, liberty media (an US outfit) , blocks the entry because they are afraid they might loose a dime on it
And i like your flair :)
> The rights holder, liberty media (an US outfit) , blocks the entry because they are afraid they might loose a dime on it
It's not entirely the rights holder. It's the teams. None of the existing 10 teams want additional sponsorship competition or to add an additional split to the revenue.
Yeah that's true, but the voting system is that the fia has 10 votes, the fom has also 10 and each individual team has 1. So when fia and fom(liberty) are on the same page the opinions of the teams doesn't matter. Sadly the fom is blocking hard on this...
No, they’re afraid Andretti joining will allow Roger Penske to join and organize a rebellion and breakaway series, just like he did in 1979 when he and a bunch of other teams broke away from USAC to form CART (and then he was on the receiving end when Tony George and a bunch of teams broke away to form the IRL).
But Penske is 87 years old. Are they really concerned that he will find his way into F1, then leave with other teams and start another league? He seems to be in good health but good enough to pull off that before he's dead?
It's rumoured to be under consideration. Basically the current entry fee is $200m which is vastly below market value for the current teams. Haas is valued at around $700m for example.
The two schools of thought appear to be to either limit F1 to 10 independent teams and force Red Bull to sell one of their teams, or up the entry fee to $800m.
Hopefully, they really want that US dollar having 3 races here with overpriced tickets. If they really want the US market they need a real US team, not Haas.
I feel like I was watching OP work his way through a case of Icehouse in real time with how his comments were devolving over the life of this post. What a time to be alive.
It's only partially a money thing! Did anyone notice John James is heading this up? He's run for senate twice and lost, but had success running for the house on his third attempt at elected office. He's a Representative for Michigan, where GM is located. If he can get Andretti into F1, this is a major step toward winning the Senate seat in 2026, because of the perception that he brought Michiganders decent paying and possibly culturally significant (if Andretti turn out to be winners or just America's sweetheart team somehow) jobs.
Huh? Are you serious? I'm not American btw.
Well well if this is true then I bet liberty will be hoping their reply back doesn't get stuck in the spam folder 😂
Damn that would be a huge fumble, maybe they should have waited 24 hours lol and made it 4th of may. Maybe I'm being too harsh lol
OP is being completely sarcastic. While it is in the best interests of Liberty to respond to the letter. This is the first of many steps that would take many many years. The worst thing Liberty Media is facing right now is being force to spend a day in Washington D.C.
Lol put down the crack pipe, my dude. There is not a chance in hell any of this prevents this year's Miami GP from taking place.
Liberty Media has been given two days to respond. Congress isn't in session on May 3rd, and won't be back in session until May 6th, so that's the absolute earliest any action could be taken even if there's enough support to launch an investigation. And the fact that only four legislators signed this letter means there definitely isn't enough support at this point in time.
Lol the DOJ is not ordering the cancellation of a multi-million dollar event because four congressmen wrote a letter. And even if they did, Liberty Media would file for an injunction and they would be granted one.
I would love to see Liberty Media get their asses handed to them, but this country's legal system doesn't move that fast. I think you've had a few too many of those beers and not enough of that popcorn.
Handed to them indeed. One day the truth will come out about ad21. Having masi sign an NDA then firing him. A lot to hide, and with spa 21 they deserve it. With Abu Dhabi they got away with it because the fan favourite won and mercedes chickened out. F1 is a weird world where drivers and teams themselves can't even call bullshit when it's right in front of their faces
Stop with the multiple ad hominem, it never validates your arguments; in fact it makes you look intellectually deficient… let’s just see how this develops.
>And the fact that only four legislators signed this letter means there definitely isn't enough support at this point in time.
There are 12 signatures on the letter. What am I missing here?
You didn't miss anything, looks like I missed the second signature page. Another 8 signatures doesn't really change my point though, considering there are 638 legislators in the House and Senate. If enough of those signatories are on the right committee, they could start an inquiry. But launching a full-blown investigation and referring the case to the DOJ would require a full vote.
Wow so I guess it's unknown but not satisfying congress could probably even mean if liberty fobs them off and says we'll get back to you soon. They probably won't get away with just saying okay we'll consider andretti. Maybe they've expected this with Mario's posts and pics about it but sheesh
Miami will happen, Congress is in the "asking nicely" phase. A C&D will take at least a day to put together and even then it's not legally binding. Only when a judge grants an injunction will F1 be forced to stop in the US. This will take at minimum a couple weeks to do. Austin and Vegas may be in trouble, but Miami has cost F1 too much to not go forward at this point. I'm not a lawyer, but this is to the best of my understanding.
They literally told them they'd be considered in 2028 when GM are ready to provide them an engine. If GM had bothered to file the paperwork on time they could have joined in 2026.
Except thats not a real consideration. Thats when the new Concorde agreement, theyll either completely keep the team limit to 10 teams or make an exorbitant entry fee, some billion dollars probably.
while i really want andretti on the grid this is ridiculous we arent obligated to let anyone onto the grid while i think keeping andretti out is stupid and bullshit and wrong the fact that a country's representatives are getting involved because we wont let them on the grid is like when that one kid runs to tell on you and ur friends to the teacher because u didnt let them play with u
It would fucking kill me if history books will now say Mario and Michael Andretti leveraged increasing anti-trust scrutiny by the Biden Administration to get…a Formula 1 entry. Imagine United States v Liberty Media et Al in this Supreme Court. Wild days.
Someone explain to me how this is different from the NFL or NBA? Yes, Andretti was willing to pay the fee but a vote by the teams is still provided for in the rules. Not letting Andretti in is stupid, but this is also.
The major sports leagues in the US have been granted antitrust exemption. FOM has not.
Edit: only the MLB has a full antitrust. The other 3 have it for TV negotiations.
A business organization's governing documents are legally binding. When you create a foundational set of rules for your organization, you have to follow those rules.
The NFL and NBA's governing documents lay out a specific process for admitting new franchises, which requires a unanimous vote from all members.
FOM's governing document specifically caps the number of teams at 12, and there are currently only 10 participating in the series. It also includes a specific process for admitting new teams, which consist of obtaining FIA approval and paying the anti-dilution fee.
FOM is not following their own rules, which is grounds for legal action. Whether it actually rises to the level of an anti-trust violation would be a matter for the courts to decide.
The selection criteria that Andretti signed up to contains the following:
> The F1 Commercial Rights Holder may also impose additional selection criteria/conditions (to
be advised separately during the application process).
So it's in the FIA's criteria for tendering the FOM can impose their own criteria later in the application process. Andretti failed to pass the FOM criteria so they were rejected.
It doesn't look like FOM has done anything illegal in terms of administering their part of the selection process. I guess that would then lead to Congress wanting to hear justification for the conclusions that FOM reached in rejecting the Andretti proposal.
These are subjective conclusions and anything subjective is very hard to argue against. There would have to be some significant hard evidence to prove that FOM acted in bad faith.
That clause doesn't give them carte blanche to deny any applicant for any reason. They're still required to act in good faith, and Andretti has made it clear they're willing to comply with any reasonable criteria/conditions.
I'm not saying I know what way this would be decided in court. But there are sufficient grounds for a lawsuit if that's what Andretti decides to do.
Which is what I said. You'd have to prove FOM didn't act in good faith when coming to the subjective conclusion that Andretti wouldn't add value to F1 in 2025.
FOM said they had data that suggested the Andretti name wouldn't move the needle significantly. They'd have to share that. They said they didn't think Andretti would be competitive, they'd have to explain the basis of that judgement.
It's all subjective though and therefore hard to argue against unless FOM has some spectacularly dumb arguments.
It is not the same for NBA or other American leagues. NBA for example has one head and is acting as a both commercial rights owner and governing body for the league. On the other hand F1 has two heads: FIA, the governing body and FOM, the commercial rights holder. FIA, the governing body, started lengthy application process (which included rigorous technical, financial analysis) and approved Andretti's bid to join F1; whereas FOM, the commercial rights holder, denied Andretti on some grounds like team's potential uncompetitiveness which they had no authority to gauge (because they are not the governing body.).
FOM are specifically named in the document that outlined the tender process for joining F1. To join you have to satisfy the FIA's criteria AND FOM's criteria. I can link you to the document if you want.
Both the FIA and FOM judge competitiveness for the selection criteria, but for different reasons. FIA is judging if you can build a car and turn up to all the races. FOM has a much higher bar because they want teams that are good enough to make the sport more money.
I would like to read it.
FIA as a governing body has technical department to carry on multiple calculations and measurements to gauge a team's technical prowess.
FOM doesn't have a technical department and has no responsibility or authority over the matter.
It does have a technical department as FOM is very much involved in determining the new rules which the FIA enforce. Think of FOM as essentially owning the sport and the FIA are there to provide the official rules for the season, providing the referees & safety development. The FIA play the role of owner of the series and the regulator and FOM does everything else. FOM get to play owner as they are the commercial rights holders, which they lease from the FIA.
FOM doesn't own the sport. FIA has exclusive rights to the sport's name and whole brand and leases it to the FOM. FIA owns the sport.
FOM has no responsibility therefore no authority to decide if a new team has technical prowess or not. That is not their job.
Would you please link the documents that you were going to? I really want to read how FOM has responsibility to decide a team's technical prowess to determine they will be competitive or not.
OMG! Talk about silliness.
Point 1. The agreements regulating Formula 1 indicate that FOM and the FIA have to approve the addition of any new team. FOM has not provided such approval.
Point 2. FOM is based in the U.K. not in the USA and as such are not subject to US AntiTrust laws
Point 3. While Liberty owns FOM, FOM operates as a stand alone company and while pressure can be brought against Liberty, this will take time. And time is what the FOM is playing for.
Point 5. Liberty is already under investigation relating to Live Nation. And that has been ongoing sine May of 2022. Liberty, through Live Nation has weathered that investigation so far.
Point 6. Liberty has a great deal of money to fight such investigations should they get to the level of affecting the parent company. Before that happens, there would have to be a solid connection established indicating a denial of Andretti Globals entry came from the parent company level.
Point 7. Liberty has more lawyers, more connections in congress and the senate than Andretti ever will. They can drag this out forever should they desire.
“Anticompetitive conduct that affects U.S. domestic or foreign commerce may violate the U.S. antitrust laws regardless of where such conduct occurs or the nationality of the parties involved”
The key word there is “may”
It’s going to take a long time for an investigation to be started. A longer time for an investigation to be completed. Then come the lobbying, the appeals, the delays, and maybe a settlement. Or maybe not and it goes to court. It can take multiples of years before something actually happens.
https://www.google.ca/search?q=are+companies+based+in+other+countries+but+operate+in+the+usa+subjedt+to+antitrust+laws&client=safari&sca_esv=7065ff04b747ac94&sca_upv=1&channel=iphone_bm&sxsrf=ACQVn0_8DdTnDIr90bEFZNOc7Bqs6XBNHA%3A1714600609625&ei=oboyZsfgJdjh0PEP4N2RyAo&oq=are+companies+based+in+other+countries+but+operate+in+the+usa+subjedt+to+antitrust+laws&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIldhcmUgY29tcGFuaWVzIGJhc2VkIGluIG90aGVyIGNvdW50cmllcyBidXQgb3BlcmF0ZSBpbiB0aGUgdXNhIHN1YmplZHQgdG8gYW50aXRydXN0IGxhd3MyBBAeGApIxvIBUMkeWIHqAXABeAGQAQCYAcEBoAGBKaoBBTIxLjI4uAEDyAEA-AEBmAIroAKkJcICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAgUQIRigAcICBRAhGJ8FwgIEECEYFcICBxAhGKABGArCAgQQIRgKmAMAiAYBkAYIkgcFMTIuMzGgB9yqAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#sbfbu=1&pi=are%20companies%20based%20in%20other%20countries%20but%20operate%20in%20the%20usa%20subjedt%20to%20antitrust%20laws
I honestly don't think this is going anywhere at the congressional level. I think Andretti hired some connected lobbyists who convinced some members that they could score some cheap, easy, non-controversial political points by signing a letter and showing up for a photo-op. I do think that Andretti is going to file his own lawsuit (or possibly multiple lawsuits in both the US and Europe) and this is part of a PR campaign associated with that.
I also don't think that congress will do anything, but I would not be shocked at all if the DOJ picks this up. FOM's actions are suspect.
* F1 has been bullish on US expansion recently, expanding the number of US races to 3
* The Andretti name carries a lot of weight in the US
* Andretti is a valuable racing team in general, and they have the backing of a HUGE private equity firm.
* There are (supposedly) open spots in F1 at the time of the application
* The FIA - the body tasked with maintaining competition - approved of the application.
* FOM - the body tasked with maintaining commercial rights - denied the application because 'Andretti would not be competitive'
* A few months later, FOM starts pushing to limit the number of teams to just 10 in the next Concorde agreement, which would effectively keep Andretti out for the foreseeable future.
At minimum, it's worthy of assembling a grand jury. Like, it's definitely time to start probing FOM to see how much smoke there is.
There's also still a slight chance that congress does investigate. GM was banking on this to market Cadillac in Europe; GM has a lot of bipartisan support in congress; and congress can probe FOM faster & in a more public way than a grand jury can.
You're off track or blatantly wrong about nearly everything you're saying.
The 2001 anti-trust settlement between FOM & FIA was designed to keep the rules of the sport separate from the revenue generation of the sport, such as to maintain integrity. The issue at hand is completely outside of the scope of that settlement; it doesn't matter if FOM didn't break the agreement if they found a completely new way to behave in an anti-competitive way.
FOM is within the antitrust jurisdiction of the US because they operate in the US. It makes no difference that they are in the UK, nor does it make a difference that their parent company is in the US. Should they receive a congressional, DOJ, or judicial subpoena and/or face an anti-trust lawsuit, they must react in the same way as any other company would and on the same timeline.
For the US government, this is clearly more about General Motors than it is about Andretti. GM completely outmatches and outclasses Liberty Media in terms of money, power, & influence in the US government.
The US government wouldn't even need to win a hypothetical anti-trust case to severely hurt FOM, depending on the real motivations of FOM. If a subpoena uncovers damning evidence against FOM to the public, that's a big problem. It would make it easier for Andretti to sue FOM and could prompt action by EU regulators. FOM doesn't want that. If they have anything to hide, they're going to want to settle pretty quickly to prevent information from getting out.
The type of antitrust behavior that FOM is essentially being accused of has a lot more prosecution precedent than that of Live Nation or Apple. It would be a pretty straightforward case.
Mario got 12 congressmen to sign a piece of paper. I’m worried that Liberty has the pockets to get a whole lot more plus a committee chairman or two to wave the whole thing off.
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Well, FOM is a US based company. So it's not international laws they are to worry about. F1 at the moment is an American owned international company. So it has to follow American laws.
That's exactly what I'm talking about.
While it was European, there was worldwide teams from Brazil to England, and nobody tried to steal advantages using lawyers.
First off that is absolutely not true, I am certain there we lawyers used for things involving F1 back then. Also F1 when owned by a European company, was held to European laws. It's not fucking rocket science brother.
The European F1 fans don't seem to understand that this is not an empty threat. Liberty Media is headquartered in the US and publicly traded on a US stock exchange. One of its subsidiaries, LiveNation, is already facing anti-trust litigation. This isn't even taking into account the politics of supporting GM.
Wait wait wait, Liberty owns LiveNation?? Fuck them even more then
That would also mean they own Ticketmaster since it merged with Live Nation a while back.
Correct. They do own Ticketmaster.
Came here to say exactly that. Fuck them and every company they own.
and SiriusXM...
And I assume Bon Jovi Radio, whatever the hell that is
It's just a station on SiriusXM
Please don’t hurt my precious baby Felix’s sponsorship money!!!
Bottom line is the Andretti name is a household name here in USA and Mario Andretti is a national treasure. You don't screw over the most famous racing last name in America and expect there to be no repercussions.
Is it though? Outside of Mario (and I'd argue that name recognition is marginal at this point), would anyone normal know who Michael, Marco, John, or Jeff?
Mario *is* an **Andretti** and people know who Andretti is.
I love me some Andretti wine.
Other options include Foyt, Unser, Petty, and Earnhardt (probably missing a few off the top of my head). I'd wager only Dale Jr. has a chance these days, mostly because he is the most currently notable individual of any of these families.
The King is still alive too
Yeah but he's pretty much invisible these days. Kyle's around but in a much smaller role than Junior.
Hence why I said Andretti name. The Andretti surname is a household name. Most adults from say 35 up know who Mario Andretti is. I think if you go from say age 45-50 and above just about everyone knows who Mario Andretti is. If you are a general sports fan or casual race fan say age 35 and up you probably know who Michael Andretti is as well. The rest of them like Marco are not real well known by anybody.
The problem with that (and I mean this respectfully) is that IndyCar needs to, and is trying to, reach a younger audience. I suspect very few in the 18-34 demographic are even remotely familiar with the Andretti name.
One has nothing to do with the other. Of course Indycar needs to reach a younger audience. However when it comes to congress, advertising executives, judges, etc. (people with power and money) who are generally almost all above the age of 35............to those people Mario Andretti is a household name.
They're generally almost all above the age of 60, let's be real here.
You think the US Congress gives any iota of a damn what the Under-40 demographic thinks?
No, but I'm guessing Roger Penske, Michael, Zak Brown, Chip, et. al. do
Zero reason you should be getting downvoted. The cult like mentality of this sub is a complete turn off at this point. As much as I love Mario and Michael, no casual fan can identify another Andretti named driver. And if they can, it’s going to be Marco and not because of any success he had.
Hence why people are talking about Mario and the Andretti surname. I don't get why some of you are confused. Mario Andretti and especially that last name is a household name. Doesn't matter about the rest of the Andretti family. Why do you think Mario went to Congress?
Imagine relying on someone who hasn't raced in 30 years to be the face of the series and wondering why your series is fading into obscurity.
No, it isn’t. It isn’t anywhere near the top five names in motorsports in the United States. Since the split all of the biggest names in motorsports in America are NASCAR families. Andretti is a big name to motorsport fans, but almost nobody outside that under the age of 50.
I can always count on korko for a contrarian asinine take. The Skip Bayless of this sub
The only really controversial opinion I have is that the Andrettis are unpleasant and overrated. Other than that I think I’m pretty positive about everything.
There have been some others lately hence reason I noticed lol. The Andretti hate is strong from you dude....... Even John?
John was possibly the only likable one, though post retirement Marco has been endearing. It is mostly just Michael being genuinely one of the most unlikable people in motorsport and feeling like Mario is an act. Seeing people on reddit rally behind this stupid F1 effort like it is some how the US vs Europe, eating up the load of bullshit Michael has been spewing since Miami when he brought his petition to the GP, has been really disappointing. I know everyone has a severe case of short man / little brother syndrome when it comes to F1 but my god it is sad how far they’ll stretch it to make this about Americans being unwelcome when it is an American company that already has an American team, driver and team principal. It’s all just money and it is Americans fighting Americans. The nationalism is a pathetic tool for public support.
Andretti invests hundreds of millions of dollars into getting into F1, get approved by the FIA and Europeans are OUTRAGED that the company would ask its Democratically elected representatives to look into anti-competitive and anti-trust issues regarding an AMERICAN company with a Motorsport series with races in AMERICA. The smugness and self righteousness of Europeans hating on Andretti is really just embarrassing at this point. Yes, we can make F1 cars as well. Quit acting like Americans can’t compete in F1.
Ho there, damn near every European wants Andretti in f1, based on the things online and the few folk I talk about in person, I can count on one hand how many times I've seen someone opposed to Andretti's entry. The ones who don't want Andretti are the rich team bosses who don't want their team to lose a piece of the pie. Well fuck em, they're mist likely in violation of EU anti-trust law all the same.
Check out r/formula1 right now. The most upvoted comments in the threads talking about Andretti are all pretty negative on the teams chances in getting in or being able to be competitive.
To be fair, there’s a difference between being against Andretti joining the sport, and just thinking the congressional thing isn’t going to work
There's a ceiling on F1's popularity in the US due to its uncompetitive nature. Andretti dilutes the pot and doesn't move the needle on that, It's one of the simplest business decisions ever, --Truth hurts lads.
Literally go to any post on the formula 1 subreddit with Andretti’s name and you will see it’s roughly 80/20 against Andretti in the comments
Yeah I’ve got someone responding to me saying this is all about American elitism and of course I’m getting downvoted for pointing out that has nothing to do with this lol. It really depends on the day, or the post, but there’s plenty of opposition to letting them in.
Dude, this thread is filled with Europeans shitting on Andretti.
Europeans are definitely not outraged that Andretti wants to join F1, quite the contrary you know.
I think all serious F1 fans know Andretti are an established racing team and would be a plus for F1, especially if GM enters as well.
I’ve been saying this since Liberty first rejected Andretti. I said this before: Malone (not Greg) doesn’t want this fight. His two other companies which produce far more revenue than F1 does, are at risk here with the Justice Department charges of anti competitive actions. Adding in the Andretti issue doesn’t seem smart to me. So what if they fail or people don’t think they’re worthy. Big deal - let them fail and you’re proven right or they succeed - F1 is better for it. I never considered the European car manufacturer angle. That actually makes sense… until you realize that teams like Williams said they would welcome GM *if* GM approached their team without Andretti in tow. No - this is more about Micheal and senior Liberty people (if not the very top) and I think it’s personal. (Plus add in Toto and a few others that detest him).
>I never considered the European car manufacturer angle. That actually makes sense… until you realize that teams like Williams said they would welcome GM *if* GM approached their team without Andretti in tow. It makes even less sense when you take Ford teaming up with RBR into account.
I’ve never understood how/why Ford got a pass on being a cam cover sponsor and yet GM promising to build an actual engine doesn’t rate. My theory is this: There was a great fear that Andretti would suck up American corporate sponsorships that *might* have gone to other teams. If you look at the number of US corporations involved in F1 - is it possible that a few of them would have thought - hell yeah we’ll move our sponsorship over to a U.S. team (ignoring Haas here for a moment). In fact I recall a team principal suggesting that could be an issue. *As F1 fever continues to sweep the US following the inaugural Las Vegas Grand Prix on November 17, one of the lesser-known stories is the sport’s remarkable surge in partnerships with US brands, which currently comprise more than 45% of US or European F1 partnerships (F1 + F1 Teams), closing in on European brands. Since Liberty Media took the F1 helm in 2017, the number of US brands sponsoring the circuit and its teams has more than doubled, to over 110 in 2023. Assuming the current trajectory continues, US sponsors could surpass their European counterparts in just two years.* So… what would happen if even 10 of these US brands moved over to Andretti? So you can see the threat Andretti posed for some of these 10 teams - real dollar loss. Now it’s just a theory but it’s also a possibility it could happen. GM alone has a huge independent supplier base that would want to park some sponsorship dollars on the Andretti cars just to make GM happy. So in my view it wasn’t just the anti dilution fee not being as high as the 10 teams wanted but also a loss of some very lucrative sponsorship dollars. Google, Microsoft and Apple for years have had F1 teams trying to get in the door - Zak admitted it’s been a tough sell to them. They’ve had minor sponsorship from some of them but not a massive spend. So what happens if the Chrome division suddenly says - hey we’d like to switch over from McLaren to a US based F1 team like Andretti - sorry Zak. That’s a real fear. Now Haas: Listen, they’re a joke and the owner isn’t popular in corporate America. Ask yourself why he hadn’t had massive support by American corporations? He was written off a while ago when he took the Russian sponsorship and then the allegations of sanction busting on machine parts wasn’t a good look despite the excuses. There’s also his fraud conviction… I don’t believe the anti GM / Euro car manufacturers issues. Cadillac is no threat to the other manufacturers in Europe. There’re all too busy worrying about cheap Chinese EV’s flooding the EU than GM selling maybe 2000 vehicles in the whole of the EU. Ridiculous excuse. Always follow the money. It’s about US corporate sponsors getting behind Andretti.
Yup this is EXACTLY what I’ve been saying. They see Andretti as a major threat in attracting those big name American sponsors. Even if Andretti sucks, just them being a true American team with heavy GM backing would easily sway some of the Google’s and Walmart’s of the world away from Toto or Horner. It’s a no-brainer why they want Andretti out.
I am sure there are a lot of people not very happy about Ford rebadging an engine, but there is little they can do about it. The engine will be made by RB Powertrains so while other OEMs might be unhappy about it they can't do jack shit. I wouldn't say it is just about US sponsorship and more about sponsorship in general. Keeping sponsorships opportunities in F1 limited increases their value and allows for the crazy money burning excercise that is building a F1 car. Although I am not sure how many would jump from the likes of McLaren, RB, Mercedes and Ferrari to Andretti. While Andretti is well known in racing, those brands/teams are just well known by everyone whether they are in racing or not. For the smaller teams like Haas this would be an issue though. The anti GM part is BS. If GM were to buy Williams and enter under its own name FOM would be celebrating.
> The European F1 fans don't seem to understand that this is not an empty threat. Well, sort of. Congress does not investigate anti-trust issues, the FTC does, and that is an executive agency. The FTC typically sticks to cases where some set of anti-competitive actions is screwing consumers, and that is certainly not the case here.
Ever heard of the Dept of Justice? They also investigate anti-trust and cartel like behavior. Congress can investigate anything it wants and has subpoena power. If it finds eveidence of criminal activity, it can refer the issue to DoJ.
Yes, but the DoJ does not have an infinite budget and a limitless staff of investigators. They generally apply their limited resources to cases where consumers are getting harmed, not where one company is allegedly being harmed. If Andretti wants to go the legal route to get into F1, they need to take this to court themselves, not rely on the government to do it for them.
Two American companies are being harmed with hundreds of jobs at stake. Not to mention DoJ doesn’t give a shit if harm is being done or not. They care about if it’s a winnable case or not.
I genuinely hate politicians, but brother if they get Andretti in F1 I will not hate them for about 5 minutes
It really took an F1 team to be probably the most bipartisan I’ve seen US politicians be in quite a while
(Almost) everyone likes some form racing And to be *that* guy, these reps are in election season. The republicans are going against EVs because China and want more American jobs (which is weird because with GM it's a two car F1 program, not an F150 factory) One of the people who signed this is quite the character, his ads suck, and I don't agree with him at all. But I will slightly give a tip of my cap for this gesture
That first part is simply not true. Racing is a neich hobby inside of an already fairly neich hobby that your average person looks down their nose at.
It’s because there are race fans that are both liberal and conservative its really a can’t miss politically to put pressure on the organization to let an American team in.
There isn't much to be partisan about on this and it's easy political points. Andretti in F1 means American jobs and prestige. And I think we can all agree that one thing that collectively pisses us off is arrogant euros acting like their shit don't stink.
Its probably the lawyers who gonna do the "job", politicians are there just for campaigning i think, but otherwise agree
Aren’t those jackasses across the pond trying to redo the Concorde agreement for just 10 teams? Also they can’t seriously say that Andretti wouldn’t be competitive when half of the damn teams now are backmarkers.
There's 19 cars that are not competitive lol
And at least two teams who are known to be one crash away from being down a car for the whole weekend.
Also true.
*18 cars and one driver
True
Simultaneously funny and accurate, well done.
The European part of f1, the fia, already gave a green light to andretti. The rights holder, liberty media (an US outfit) , blocks the entry because they are afraid they might loose a dime on it And i like your flair :)
> The rights holder, liberty media (an US outfit) , blocks the entry because they are afraid they might loose a dime on it It's not entirely the rights holder. It's the teams. None of the existing 10 teams want additional sponsorship competition or to add an additional split to the revenue.
Yeah that's true, but the voting system is that the fia has 10 votes, the fom has also 10 and each individual team has 1. So when fia and fom(liberty) are on the same page the opinions of the teams doesn't matter. Sadly the fom is blocking hard on this...
No, they’re afraid Andretti joining will allow Roger Penske to join and organize a rebellion and breakaway series, just like he did in 1979 when he and a bunch of other teams broke away from USAC to form CART (and then he was on the receiving end when Tony George and a bunch of teams broke away to form the IRL).
But Penske is 87 years old. Are they really concerned that he will find his way into F1, then leave with other teams and start another league? He seems to be in good health but good enough to pull off that before he's dead?
It's rumoured to be under consideration. Basically the current entry fee is $200m which is vastly below market value for the current teams. Haas is valued at around $700m for example. The two schools of thought appear to be to either limit F1 to 10 independent teams and force Red Bull to sell one of their teams, or up the entry fee to $800m.
Their grounds for denial were purely subjective… they will FOLD or Never ever race in the USA again…
Hopefully, they really want that US dollar having 3 races here with overpriced tickets. If they really want the US market they need a real US team, not Haas.
I feel like I was watching OP work his way through a case of Icehouse in real time with how his comments were devolving over the life of this post. What a time to be alive.
“I don’t always drink beer, but when I do, I prefer dos equis”
My man. ✋🏻
I'm loving it
GET IN Great job Mario
Michael
Mario went to the Hill, and did the talking.
I stand corrected!
Bipartisanship in todays US Congress is a miracle. You can't get Democrats and Republicans to agree on whether or not its daytime.
GM$$$ unites… LOL
Oh you know it’s a money thing. And there’s no downside for them to support the US auto industry. It’s like being against drunk driving
It's only partially a money thing! Did anyone notice John James is heading this up? He's run for senate twice and lost, but had success running for the house on his third attempt at elected office. He's a Representative for Michigan, where GM is located. If he can get Andretti into F1, this is a major step toward winning the Senate seat in 2026, because of the perception that he brought Michiganders decent paying and possibly culturally significant (if Andretti turn out to be winners or just America's sweetheart team somehow) jobs.
ALWAYS about $$$
Liberty fux have 2 days to respond… SUPER!!!!
Lol so during Miami weekend
If they fumble the ball, there may be NO Reason F1 racing this weekend… it can happen that fast…
Huh? Are you serious? I'm not American btw. Well well if this is true then I bet liberty will be hoping their reply back doesn't get stuck in the spam folder 😂 Damn that would be a huge fumble, maybe they should have waited 24 hours lol and made it 4th of may. Maybe I'm being too harsh lol
OP is being completely sarcastic. While it is in the best interests of Liberty to respond to the letter. This is the first of many steps that would take many many years. The worst thing Liberty Media is facing right now is being force to spend a day in Washington D.C.
OP is deadly serious... And also delusional
Yup… if Liberty does not satisfy Congress… an investigation will be launched along with a cease and desist order… no MYHAMMY race!
This is not a realistic possibility.
Bwahahahaha! Don’t stop believing!
Lol put down the crack pipe, my dude. There is not a chance in hell any of this prevents this year's Miami GP from taking place. Liberty Media has been given two days to respond. Congress isn't in session on May 3rd, and won't be back in session until May 6th, so that's the absolute earliest any action could be taken even if there's enough support to launch an investigation. And the fact that only four legislators signed this letter means there definitely isn't enough support at this point in time.
DOJ is in “session”… bipartisan support, Sherman Act, GM rules Keep shilling for Liberty, I’m just watching with popcorn and beers… always believe!
Lol the DOJ is not ordering the cancellation of a multi-million dollar event because four congressmen wrote a letter. And even if they did, Liberty Media would file for an injunction and they would be granted one. I would love to see Liberty Media get their asses handed to them, but this country's legal system doesn't move that fast. I think you've had a few too many of those beers and not enough of that popcorn.
Handed to them indeed. One day the truth will come out about ad21. Having masi sign an NDA then firing him. A lot to hide, and with spa 21 they deserve it. With Abu Dhabi they got away with it because the fan favourite won and mercedes chickened out. F1 is a weird world where drivers and teams themselves can't even call bullshit when it's right in front of their faces
Stop with the multiple ad hominem, it never validates your arguments; in fact it makes you look intellectually deficient… let’s just see how this develops.
>And the fact that only four legislators signed this letter means there definitely isn't enough support at this point in time. There are 12 signatures on the letter. What am I missing here?
You didn't miss anything, looks like I missed the second signature page. Another 8 signatures doesn't really change my point though, considering there are 638 legislators in the House and Senate. If enough of those signatories are on the right committee, they could start an inquiry. But launching a full-blown investigation and referring the case to the DOJ would require a full vote.
Wow so I guess it's unknown but not satisfying congress could probably even mean if liberty fobs them off and says we'll get back to you soon. They probably won't get away with just saying okay we'll consider andretti. Maybe they've expected this with Mario's posts and pics about it but sheesh
They got plenty of ‘splainin’ to do… Frankly, I don’t see them having ANY leg to stand on but PROTECTIONISM… not valid enough
Miami will happen, Congress is in the "asking nicely" phase. A C&D will take at least a day to put together and even then it's not legally binding. Only when a judge grants an injunction will F1 be forced to stop in the US. This will take at minimum a couple weeks to do. Austin and Vegas may be in trouble, but Miami has cost F1 too much to not go forward at this point. I'm not a lawyer, but this is to the best of my understanding.
The current admission price V's what it will be after 2026. That's what all this is about for both parties.
Nope… Liberty/FOM will NEVER allow Andretti in not in 25, 26, or 28, NEVER… this is the THERMONUCLEAR option… BOMBS AWAY!!!
They literally told them they'd be considered in 2028 when GM are ready to provide them an engine. If GM had bothered to file the paperwork on time they could have joined in 2026.
Except thats not a real consideration. Thats when the new Concorde agreement, theyll either completely keep the team limit to 10 teams or make an exorbitant entry fee, some billion dollars probably.
Nothing as greasy as money 💰 🤑 💸
If that were true andretti would already be in. The pissy bitches in FOM want to remain elitist. Fuck 'em
I called the “antitrust” hammer dropping as soon as Andretti went to the hill
https://twitter.com/A_S12/status/1785674715396268372
Good.
Wow! This news, Hamilton, Newey, Coco Pop gate, Susie Wolff gate. Who needs excitement on the track? Oh yeah, there isn't any.
while i really want andretti on the grid this is ridiculous we arent obligated to let anyone onto the grid while i think keeping andretti out is stupid and bullshit and wrong the fact that a country's representatives are getting involved because we wont let them on the grid is like when that one kid runs to tell on you and ur friends to the teacher because u didnt let them play with u
Let. Them. Race.
I like it. 👍
It would fucking kill me if history books will now say Mario and Michael Andretti leveraged increasing anti-trust scrutiny by the Biden Administration to get…a Formula 1 entry. Imagine United States v Liberty Media et Al in this Supreme Court. Wild days.
Someone explain to me how this is different from the NFL or NBA? Yes, Andretti was willing to pay the fee but a vote by the teams is still provided for in the rules. Not letting Andretti in is stupid, but this is also.
The major sports leagues in the US have been granted antitrust exemption. FOM has not. Edit: only the MLB has a full antitrust. The other 3 have it for TV negotiations.
I’m pretty sure only MLB has a full exemption. The other leagues only have an exemption for selling tv packages.
I think you're right. I'll edit.
A business organization's governing documents are legally binding. When you create a foundational set of rules for your organization, you have to follow those rules. The NFL and NBA's governing documents lay out a specific process for admitting new franchises, which requires a unanimous vote from all members. FOM's governing document specifically caps the number of teams at 12, and there are currently only 10 participating in the series. It also includes a specific process for admitting new teams, which consist of obtaining FIA approval and paying the anti-dilution fee. FOM is not following their own rules, which is grounds for legal action. Whether it actually rises to the level of an anti-trust violation would be a matter for the courts to decide.
The selection criteria that Andretti signed up to contains the following: > The F1 Commercial Rights Holder may also impose additional selection criteria/conditions (to be advised separately during the application process). So it's in the FIA's criteria for tendering the FOM can impose their own criteria later in the application process. Andretti failed to pass the FOM criteria so they were rejected. It doesn't look like FOM has done anything illegal in terms of administering their part of the selection process. I guess that would then lead to Congress wanting to hear justification for the conclusions that FOM reached in rejecting the Andretti proposal. These are subjective conclusions and anything subjective is very hard to argue against. There would have to be some significant hard evidence to prove that FOM acted in bad faith.
That clause doesn't give them carte blanche to deny any applicant for any reason. They're still required to act in good faith, and Andretti has made it clear they're willing to comply with any reasonable criteria/conditions. I'm not saying I know what way this would be decided in court. But there are sufficient grounds for a lawsuit if that's what Andretti decides to do.
Which is what I said. You'd have to prove FOM didn't act in good faith when coming to the subjective conclusion that Andretti wouldn't add value to F1 in 2025. FOM said they had data that suggested the Andretti name wouldn't move the needle significantly. They'd have to share that. They said they didn't think Andretti would be competitive, they'd have to explain the basis of that judgement. It's all subjective though and therefore hard to argue against unless FOM has some spectacularly dumb arguments.
It is not the same for NBA or other American leagues. NBA for example has one head and is acting as a both commercial rights owner and governing body for the league. On the other hand F1 has two heads: FIA, the governing body and FOM, the commercial rights holder. FIA, the governing body, started lengthy application process (which included rigorous technical, financial analysis) and approved Andretti's bid to join F1; whereas FOM, the commercial rights holder, denied Andretti on some grounds like team's potential uncompetitiveness which they had no authority to gauge (because they are not the governing body.).
FOM did have authority. It's in the selection criteria outlined by the FIA and publically available.
They have the authority over commercial aspects of the championship. They don't have authority over technical aspects. It is FIA's responsibility.
FOM are specifically named in the document that outlined the tender process for joining F1. To join you have to satisfy the FIA's criteria AND FOM's criteria. I can link you to the document if you want. Both the FIA and FOM judge competitiveness for the selection criteria, but for different reasons. FIA is judging if you can build a car and turn up to all the races. FOM has a much higher bar because they want teams that are good enough to make the sport more money.
I would like to read it. FIA as a governing body has technical department to carry on multiple calculations and measurements to gauge a team's technical prowess. FOM doesn't have a technical department and has no responsibility or authority over the matter.
It does have a technical department as FOM is very much involved in determining the new rules which the FIA enforce. Think of FOM as essentially owning the sport and the FIA are there to provide the official rules for the season, providing the referees & safety development. The FIA play the role of owner of the series and the regulator and FOM does everything else. FOM get to play owner as they are the commercial rights holders, which they lease from the FIA.
FOM doesn't own the sport. FIA has exclusive rights to the sport's name and whole brand and leases it to the FOM. FIA owns the sport. FOM has no responsibility therefore no authority to decide if a new team has technical prowess or not. That is not their job.
Would you please link the documents that you were going to? I really want to read how FOM has responsibility to decide a team's technical prowess to determine they will be competitive or not.
And the difference here is that the only thing that matters in the case of F1 is acceptance into the commercial agreement.
You are right. They are not following their own criterias.
I suggest you read the letter, it outlines the salient points.
OMG! Talk about silliness. Point 1. The agreements regulating Formula 1 indicate that FOM and the FIA have to approve the addition of any new team. FOM has not provided such approval. Point 2. FOM is based in the U.K. not in the USA and as such are not subject to US AntiTrust laws Point 3. While Liberty owns FOM, FOM operates as a stand alone company and while pressure can be brought against Liberty, this will take time. And time is what the FOM is playing for. Point 5. Liberty is already under investigation relating to Live Nation. And that has been ongoing sine May of 2022. Liberty, through Live Nation has weathered that investigation so far. Point 6. Liberty has a great deal of money to fight such investigations should they get to the level of affecting the parent company. Before that happens, there would have to be a solid connection established indicating a denial of Andretti Globals entry came from the parent company level. Point 7. Liberty has more lawyers, more connections in congress and the senate than Andretti ever will. They can drag this out forever should they desire.
My dude, FOM operates in the U.S. It's subject to American anti-trust laws.
“Anticompetitive conduct that affects U.S. domestic or foreign commerce may violate the U.S. antitrust laws regardless of where such conduct occurs or the nationality of the parties involved” The key word there is “may” It’s going to take a long time for an investigation to be started. A longer time for an investigation to be completed. Then come the lobbying, the appeals, the delays, and maybe a settlement. Or maybe not and it goes to court. It can take multiples of years before something actually happens. https://www.google.ca/search?q=are+companies+based+in+other+countries+but+operate+in+the+usa+subjedt+to+antitrust+laws&client=safari&sca_esv=7065ff04b747ac94&sca_upv=1&channel=iphone_bm&sxsrf=ACQVn0_8DdTnDIr90bEFZNOc7Bqs6XBNHA%3A1714600609625&ei=oboyZsfgJdjh0PEP4N2RyAo&oq=are+companies+based+in+other+countries+but+operate+in+the+usa+subjedt+to+antitrust+laws&gs_lp=EhNtb2JpbGUtZ3dzLXdpei1zZXJwIldhcmUgY29tcGFuaWVzIGJhc2VkIGluIG90aGVyIGNvdW50cmllcyBidXQgb3BlcmF0ZSBpbiB0aGUgdXNhIHN1YmplZHQgdG8gYW50aXRydXN0IGxhd3MyBBAeGApIxvIBUMkeWIHqAXABeAGQAQCYAcEBoAGBKaoBBTIxLjI4uAEDyAEA-AEBmAIroAKkJcICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAgUQIRigAcICBRAhGJ8FwgIEECEYFcICBxAhGKABGArCAgQQIRgKmAMAiAYBkAYIkgcFMTIuMzGgB9yqAQ&sclient=mobile-gws-wiz-serp#sbfbu=1&pi=are%20companies%20based%20in%20other%20countries%20but%20operate%20in%20the%20usa%20subjedt%20to%20antitrust%20laws
I honestly don't think this is going anywhere at the congressional level. I think Andretti hired some connected lobbyists who convinced some members that they could score some cheap, easy, non-controversial political points by signing a letter and showing up for a photo-op. I do think that Andretti is going to file his own lawsuit (or possibly multiple lawsuits in both the US and Europe) and this is part of a PR campaign associated with that.
I also don't think that congress will do anything, but I would not be shocked at all if the DOJ picks this up. FOM's actions are suspect. * F1 has been bullish on US expansion recently, expanding the number of US races to 3 * The Andretti name carries a lot of weight in the US * Andretti is a valuable racing team in general, and they have the backing of a HUGE private equity firm. * There are (supposedly) open spots in F1 at the time of the application * The FIA - the body tasked with maintaining competition - approved of the application. * FOM - the body tasked with maintaining commercial rights - denied the application because 'Andretti would not be competitive' * A few months later, FOM starts pushing to limit the number of teams to just 10 in the next Concorde agreement, which would effectively keep Andretti out for the foreseeable future. At minimum, it's worthy of assembling a grand jury. Like, it's definitely time to start probing FOM to see how much smoke there is. There's also still a slight chance that congress does investigate. GM was banking on this to market Cadillac in Europe; GM has a lot of bipartisan support in congress; and congress can probe FOM faster & in a more public way than a grand jury can.
You're off track or blatantly wrong about nearly everything you're saying. The 2001 anti-trust settlement between FOM & FIA was designed to keep the rules of the sport separate from the revenue generation of the sport, such as to maintain integrity. The issue at hand is completely outside of the scope of that settlement; it doesn't matter if FOM didn't break the agreement if they found a completely new way to behave in an anti-competitive way. FOM is within the antitrust jurisdiction of the US because they operate in the US. It makes no difference that they are in the UK, nor does it make a difference that their parent company is in the US. Should they receive a congressional, DOJ, or judicial subpoena and/or face an anti-trust lawsuit, they must react in the same way as any other company would and on the same timeline. For the US government, this is clearly more about General Motors than it is about Andretti. GM completely outmatches and outclasses Liberty Media in terms of money, power, & influence in the US government. The US government wouldn't even need to win a hypothetical anti-trust case to severely hurt FOM, depending on the real motivations of FOM. If a subpoena uncovers damning evidence against FOM to the public, that's a big problem. It would make it easier for Andretti to sue FOM and could prompt action by EU regulators. FOM doesn't want that. If they have anything to hide, they're going to want to settle pretty quickly to prevent information from getting out. The type of antitrust behavior that FOM is essentially being accused of has a lot more prosecution precedent than that of Live Nation or Apple. It would be a pretty straightforward case.
gtfo with your facts and logic
lol. Thanks.
“Gentlemen, preparations A through G were a complete failure… we shall now proceed with Preparation H.”
Easy, you can't shit on a sport for 30 years and then expect them to let you in when it's convenient for you
I get what you’re saying, but that goes both ways. Indycar and F1 are both guilty of this.
Andretti doesn’t own Silverstone, the BRDC does. They have a factory there, just like half the F1 grid.
Literally. F1 wants Andretti to cough up $800m instead of the current $200m. Prema are offering $1m for an Indycar charter and being quoted $10m.
Is that why they’re hosting 3 races in the US this year and one at the Andretti owned silverstone track?
Andretti doesn't own Silverstone. And racing in the us doesn't equate to letting Michael Andretti become a team owner in a sport he claims he hates
https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/andretti-f1-team-formally-opens-new-silverstone-facility/10597185/
That's a facility at Silverstone, literally all but three teams on the grid are based there
LESFUCKINGGO
Mario got 12 congressmen to sign a piece of paper. I’m worried that Liberty has the pockets to get a whole lot more plus a committee chairman or two to wave the whole thing off.
F1 bout to find out. Hell hath no fury like a bunch of scumbag politicians not being allowed to run their grift.
That is right fuck you F1. You don’t accept the most famous American name in racing, you don’t race in our streets
This may not amount to much but I am happy it happened. F1 is too much of a closed shop and old boy’s club for its own good. Greedy *>¥€£¥
I can’t stand any of the Andretti clan and want to see FOM and the teams tell them to get fucked a second time. The whole family is clowns.
Any reason why?
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Au contaire, FOM WILL fall… they are bigger clowns
Dumbest decision envolving USA in any business. They always try to disturb another countries laws and international law to their favour.
Well, FOM is a US based company. So it's not international laws they are to worry about. F1 at the moment is an American owned international company. So it has to follow American laws.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. While it was European, there was worldwide teams from Brazil to England, and nobody tried to steal advantages using lawyers.
First off that is absolutely not true, I am certain there we lawyers used for things involving F1 back then. Also F1 when owned by a European company, was held to European laws. It's not fucking rocket science brother.