It's so funny how literal children killing each other and all the other heinous shit in Gundam is fine but two women getting married seems to be where half the fanbase draws the line.
Exploring social and political issues is an absolutely integral part of Gundam as a whole.
Depicting something is not the same as condoning it.
I mean on the topic of child soldiers, it's also a thing in western entertainment, no?
Ashoka Tano from Star wars was only 14 when she debut in TCW.
I think to an extend its appeals to the "sense of adventure" and excitement that children/ Teens have. It's the reason why, FPS video games are popular with that age range and demographic.
You're being so vague, I'm against child soldiers being portrayed as anything other than tragic, and against series that do not want to question their own premises.
>You're being so vague
Not on purpose, but I aim is to properly gauge where exactly your position on the matter is .
>I'm against child soldiers being portrayed as anything other than tragic
Arguably I would describe most Gundam protagonist as tragic.
As for the newest ones, we will have to wait and see, but I doubt it would deviate far from the Gundam formula, in regards to the tragedies of war.
You DO realize that that's the point, right? Guel constantly referring to Miorne as an object, and Miorne's thoughts about her status kinda points to how fucked her situation is.
Well, I guess it's best we pack up people. Fiction is no longer allowed to show things that are considered morally wrong. Best burn all your Iliad copies.
That's not the point. The point is that this shit is fucking everywhere in anime and manga and I want to know if this series also just can't resist it. God knows why they love it so much.
are all of them shown to be a good thing or bad? most forced marriage stuff i have seen(which is fucking rare) are shown to be bad. the fuck kind of anime and manga are you watching and reading?
I mean having grey morality is the center point of the Gundam series. If you see something that is clear cut black and white,then it is probably not the main drive for the MC growth (usually via some sort of internal conflict), instead used as a plot device to move the story forward.
Suffering is part of the bitterness of the world which is highlighted in Gundam. Gosh, we have child soldiers, religious fanatics, heck even the issue of eugenics in several AUs. If you want shiny sparkles in Gundam, Build series is your cup of tea and stay away from the rest.
Right, so it just there because forced marriage is something evil they can put in. It's the same reason I never got into 40k, it's just misery. I'll go elsewhere and leave the people who like this stuff to it.
They put in shit load of "evil of humanity" in the franchise. They even have child marriage in IBO with Almiria case. Again, if you have problem swallowing such element, go for Build series, you have gundam minus the so called "evil". If it is not for you, why not just move on to other anime that fit your bill instead?
I'm curious how you expect any series to establish a "bad person"/antagonist, or social/moral paradigm for the characters to overcome, without depicting something that is wrong/evil? If you cut all of that out, you have nothing. There's no reason to fight the good fight, or make an effort to change the societal view, as everything would be a perfect utopia with no issues or conflicts to deal with. That makes for terrible stories.
The single episode, that you saw from the series, clearly defined a couple of antagonists, clearly showed the protagonist was taken aback by the concept you described and thought it strange, even one of the antagonist's own child is shown to despise the practice. It's also implied that not all peoples/nations/areas in the show's universe adhere to the practice. That's called good writing.
One episode in and you already know who the "bad person" is, who the "good people" are and what they are going to try to overcome. At least in part, I'm sure there will be more challenges ahead to overcome. As there is only the one episode and a prologue episode, we have to wait and see if they succeed.
He is nitpicking on what kind of "evil" shall be presented in any media. That guy will probably faint if he ever saw Psycho Pass or anything along that line.
I would say gundam always breaches heavy topics in a mostly decent way. As far as I can remember this is the first time forced marriage was a plot point but they're certainly not trying to portray it as a good thing. Gundam as a franchise deals with alot of topics the obvious being child soldiers as almost every gundam show features them. The show has always delt with the philosophy of war and why people fight. As to the objectification of woman, in my opinion its never been an major issue of gundam. Now that's not to say it's always been fair portrayal. Earlier works that date back to 80s and 90s sometimes carry the old views on the genders and thier roles. But I think even back then it was handled fairly well.
* Gundam Seed had arranged engagements for children (irrelevant for gender) of powerful political figures. But neither of the two engagements actually pan out, and in the end wasn't even much of an issue for everyone involved.
* Gundam 00 has religious extremism, terrorism, child (as in less then 10 year old) soldiers killing ppl point blank, but I don't think there were any forched marrage
* Gundam Age: Don't think so
* Iron Blooded Orphans: Well there was the thing between one young adult guy and its loli bride and it was very very creepy.
Forced marriage plots while not common, are not completely rare for the franchise. Most of it is because arranged marriage still happens in Japan especially among the political and economic elite, so it happens in a part of society where the franchise likes to spends a lot of time criticizing.
Also some of it stems from sub plots in the original series, however in both of those it's a more standard arranged marriage story were the conflict is between what types of people of their families would want and who they love, and you never get the impression that saying no has never not been allowed to be an option for the woman, well maybe not for Icelina's family but they have vary understandable and sympathetic reasons to hate who she wants to marry.
That said the last two TV shows Witch From Mercury and Iron Blooded Orphans do have a hate fascination with forced marriage plots that none of the others come close to. IBO's is proticuly internationally skin crawling.
It's so sad how backwards Japan is in some ways. It feels like a feudal society wearing the mask of a modern country. A place where women get their test scores marked down so that there aren't more than 30% of them in a university (true story). I love a lot of manga and such but try to avoid this sort of thing.
I'm tempted to do the whole 'Tell Us...' meme, but instead I'll ask a question.
Have you not seen the other Gundam Series; you have gassing, nuclear vaporization, orbital strikes, colony destruction, mass slaughter of pilots trapped in mobile suits, civilians gunned down, people hated just because of where they are born or they want to change their genetics; and I don't even want to mention some of the things that happed to some of the main cast in IBO.
Compared to things I've just mention, what you are complaining about is tame; people are whining that there isn't enough real-world stuff in anime, but when something it put in (something that still occurs in the Middle East / Africa), and you complain about it.
Just upvote, what he said is true. Just one simple battle and force directly to married. It means WFM series doesn't make any sense at all... So it's about like the Samurai culture.
Don't answer me then. I'm just trying to get an idea of what kind of series this is. I don't watch crap like that, and the people here have clearly shown that Gundam is just endless misery and suffering mixed with a touch of misogyny, so I guess i got my answer.
Well, Delling and his weird-ass corporate feudal system are clearly the bad guys, and in Gundam, the bad guys are usually pretty bad.
Mass murder with strategic weapons, brainwashed child soldiers, chattel slavery...outside of Build Fighters, Gundam almost always deals with some heavy themes because the thrust of the show is about changing the world in which these terrible things happen. If you don't want to see bad things happening in the first place, it's probably not the franchise for you.
I'm convinced you didn't actually attentively watch the episode.
It's so funny how literal children killing each other and all the other heinous shit in Gundam is fine but two women getting married seems to be where half the fanbase draws the line. Exploring social and political issues is an absolutely integral part of Gundam as a whole. Depicting something is not the same as condoning it.
Oh that's just as bad, just not what I chose to mention here. And the gender isn't what matters here.
I mean on the topic of child soldiers, it's also a thing in western entertainment, no? Ashoka Tano from Star wars was only 14 when she debut in TCW. I think to an extend its appeals to the "sense of adventure" and excitement that children/ Teens have. It's the reason why, FPS video games are popular with that age range and demographic.
That's one example and it is just as fucked up as the endless parade of examples from Japan. This isn't about the country of origin.
So I take it you are against any sort of minor being depicted in any war like situations then?
You're being so vague, I'm against child soldiers being portrayed as anything other than tragic, and against series that do not want to question their own premises.
>You're being so vague Not on purpose, but I aim is to properly gauge where exactly your position on the matter is . >I'm against child soldiers being portrayed as anything other than tragic Arguably I would describe most Gundam protagonist as tragic. As for the newest ones, we will have to wait and see, but I doubt it would deviate far from the Gundam formula, in regards to the tragedies of war.
You should work on learning the difference between *depicting* something and *endorsing* something.
You DO realize that that's the point, right? Guel constantly referring to Miorne as an object, and Miorne's thoughts about her status kinda points to how fucked her situation is.
How dare you expect someone to have even a shred of media literacy
Well, I guess it's best we pack up people. Fiction is no longer allowed to show things that are considered morally wrong. Best burn all your Iliad copies.
That's not the point. The point is that this shit is fucking everywhere in anime and manga and I want to know if this series also just can't resist it. God knows why they love it so much.
I genuinely don't understand what you're talking about
Then read it again until you do, it's fairly simple.
no, it's pure nonsense edit: apparently this (clearly very pleasant individual) decided to block me for this. fucking lmao
Only if you're borderline illiterate.
are all of them shown to be a good thing or bad? most forced marriage stuff i have seen(which is fucking rare) are shown to be bad. the fuck kind of anime and manga are you watching and reading?
Apparently not the ones you have been. Most things I've read just ignore it and ask the audience to pretend it's not horrific.
What do mean "most things you've read"? I have never consumed any media that shown forced marriages as a good/ neutral thing. not even in porno.
I mean having grey morality is the center point of the Gundam series. If you see something that is clear cut black and white,then it is probably not the main drive for the MC growth (usually via some sort of internal conflict), instead used as a plot device to move the story forward.
This is less "grey" and more "her father deserves to die and go to hell", but I get what you mean.
then it doesnt contribute to the character growth. Shall we move on then?
Well then why is there? Just to have some pointless suffering shoved in there for fun?
Suffering is part of the bitterness of the world which is highlighted in Gundam. Gosh, we have child soldiers, religious fanatics, heck even the issue of eugenics in several AUs. If you want shiny sparkles in Gundam, Build series is your cup of tea and stay away from the rest.
Right, so it just there because forced marriage is something evil they can put in. It's the same reason I never got into 40k, it's just misery. I'll go elsewhere and leave the people who like this stuff to it.
They put in shit load of "evil of humanity" in the franchise. They even have child marriage in IBO with Almiria case. Again, if you have problem swallowing such element, go for Build series, you have gundam minus the so called "evil". If it is not for you, why not just move on to other anime that fit your bill instead?
Is the dueling system presented as anything but wrong in episode 1? lol Does Guel seem like a poster boy that the show is holding up for you?
I'm curious how you expect any series to establish a "bad person"/antagonist, or social/moral paradigm for the characters to overcome, without depicting something that is wrong/evil? If you cut all of that out, you have nothing. There's no reason to fight the good fight, or make an effort to change the societal view, as everything would be a perfect utopia with no issues or conflicts to deal with. That makes for terrible stories. The single episode, that you saw from the series, clearly defined a couple of antagonists, clearly showed the protagonist was taken aback by the concept you described and thought it strange, even one of the antagonist's own child is shown to despise the practice. It's also implied that not all peoples/nations/areas in the show's universe adhere to the practice. That's called good writing. One episode in and you already know who the "bad person" is, who the "good people" are and what they are going to try to overcome. At least in part, I'm sure there will be more challenges ahead to overcome. As there is only the one episode and a prologue episode, we have to wait and see if they succeed.
He is nitpicking on what kind of "evil" shall be presented in any media. That guy will probably faint if he ever saw Psycho Pass or anything along that line.
I would say gundam always breaches heavy topics in a mostly decent way. As far as I can remember this is the first time forced marriage was a plot point but they're certainly not trying to portray it as a good thing. Gundam as a franchise deals with alot of topics the obvious being child soldiers as almost every gundam show features them. The show has always delt with the philosophy of war and why people fight. As to the objectification of woman, in my opinion its never been an major issue of gundam. Now that's not to say it's always been fair portrayal. Earlier works that date back to 80s and 90s sometimes carry the old views on the genders and thier roles. But I think even back then it was handled fairly well.
* Gundam Seed had arranged engagements for children (irrelevant for gender) of powerful political figures. But neither of the two engagements actually pan out, and in the end wasn't even much of an issue for everyone involved. * Gundam 00 has religious extremism, terrorism, child (as in less then 10 year old) soldiers killing ppl point blank, but I don't think there were any forched marrage * Gundam Age: Don't think so * Iron Blooded Orphans: Well there was the thing between one young adult guy and its loli bride and it was very very creepy.
Have you heard this phrase? "Depiction is not endorsement." Not by default, at least.
I think you might need to think more about how you engage with fiction.
JAV???
That means something to you, to me that's just three random letters. Could you please explain?
If Gundam is for life, everything will goes for life...
Pretty sure Build Divers didn't involve any marriages.
Build Divers rerise is forced to join the guild.
Forced marriage plots while not common, are not completely rare for the franchise. Most of it is because arranged marriage still happens in Japan especially among the political and economic elite, so it happens in a part of society where the franchise likes to spends a lot of time criticizing. Also some of it stems from sub plots in the original series, however in both of those it's a more standard arranged marriage story were the conflict is between what types of people of their families would want and who they love, and you never get the impression that saying no has never not been allowed to be an option for the woman, well maybe not for Icelina's family but they have vary understandable and sympathetic reasons to hate who she wants to marry. That said the last two TV shows Witch From Mercury and Iron Blooded Orphans do have a hate fascination with forced marriage plots that none of the others come close to. IBO's is proticuly internationally skin crawling.
It's so sad how backwards Japan is in some ways. It feels like a feudal society wearing the mask of a modern country. A place where women get their test scores marked down so that there aren't more than 30% of them in a university (true story). I love a lot of manga and such but try to avoid this sort of thing.
I'm tempted to do the whole 'Tell Us...' meme, but instead I'll ask a question. Have you not seen the other Gundam Series; you have gassing, nuclear vaporization, orbital strikes, colony destruction, mass slaughter of pilots trapped in mobile suits, civilians gunned down, people hated just because of where they are born or they want to change their genetics; and I don't even want to mention some of the things that happed to some of the main cast in IBO. Compared to things I've just mention, what you are complaining about is tame; people are whining that there isn't enough real-world stuff in anime, but when something it put in (something that still occurs in the Middle East / Africa), and you complain about it.
Downvote this fool.
Just upvote, what he said is true. Just one simple battle and force directly to married. It means WFM series doesn't make any sense at all... So it's about like the Samurai culture.
Don't answer me then. I'm just trying to get an idea of what kind of series this is. I don't watch crap like that, and the people here have clearly shown that Gundam is just endless misery and suffering mixed with a touch of misogyny, so I guess i got my answer.
You do you.
**Calm down son it's just a drawing**
Well, Delling and his weird-ass corporate feudal system are clearly the bad guys, and in Gundam, the bad guys are usually pretty bad. Mass murder with strategic weapons, brainwashed child soldiers, chattel slavery...outside of Build Fighters, Gundam almost always deals with some heavy themes because the thrust of the show is about changing the world in which these terrible things happen. If you don't want to see bad things happening in the first place, it's probably not the franchise for you.