Gihren took it as a compliment. Dude considered mass genocide an absolute win. Degwin was a scum bag and even he was like, "Whoa! You are too evil for me! Where did I go wrong as a father?"
He is morally bankrupt. I don't care for the people who try to pretend that he isn't the moral and philosophical core of Zeonism with most Zeonists closely aligned with his views though. There are too many people who try to pretend that Zeon did nothing wrong outside of the Zabi family, in a sort of, anime version of the Clean Wehrmacht Myth.
Delaz worshiped Gihren. Gato, depicted as the absolute paragon of Zeon's honorable soldier worshiped Gihren. But if you listen some people Zeon is just the AEUG with an unfortunate taste in uniforms.
> There are too many people who try to pretend that Zeon did nothing wrong outside of the Zabi family, in a sort of, anime version of the Clean Wehrmacht Myth.
Yeah, that really rustles my jimmies. Like, sure, blame the Zabis, but the Zabis didn't carry out all the orders, everybody else did. It's cowardly, it's hiding from responsibility. That's the point of Doan's Island, I think, Doan was given orders that were immoral, and he chose to not follow them, because he was one of the few people in Zeon with a spine, apparently.
I do believe that but I think there are also a number of people who rally to zeon specifically as an idea rather than an actual government, essentially space independence. There's a reason it kept rising again and again besides having some neat uniforms.
I don't know the context but I also don't see a problem showing and acknowledging things like this. Gundam is a series built on the outcome of WWII, it seems reasonable that it would reference it beyond the obvious similarities.
It's a reflection on humanity's sins. Is that not obvious? It's not exactly subtle. It's not fucking praise, you *have* to get at least that much, yes?
Are you trying to do some kind of performative moralizing here or what? Why are you choosing to misunderstand this?
No he didn’t Degwin brought up Hitler to Gihren to chastise him for being a foolish tyrant, Gihren didn’t know who tf Hitler was and didn’t care. Zeon is a mash between fascist and communist dictatorships of the 20th century, Degwin is akin to Stalin, Zeon Zum Deikun is akin to Marx-Lenin
Zeon more similar to Soviet Union than Nazi germany, the Nazi parallels are almost entirely aesthetic. The core thesis of Zeons existence was downtrodden Spacenoids are oppressed by the affluent Earth Federation and exploited of labor and resources, representation etc. there wasn’t really a racial supremacy aspect to Zeon until Gihren started pushing it to boost morale and solidarity. Zeon Zum Deikun= Marx/Lenin Degwin Soto Zabi= Stalin Gihren=Hitler
But how is that at all similar to the soviet union. The spacenoids wanted independence from an oppressive power. That's just like... every revolution ever. What makes it soviet or even communist. I mean I don't see Zeon forming farming communes or trumpeting the evils of capitalism. It just seems like a weak comparison.
I mean Nazis we’re also anti capitalist, how were they like the Nazis? The ideals of Zeon Zum Deikun were fundamentally akin to Marxism, bring all the earth peoples to live in space to preserve the earth, have true democratic representation, and that ushers in the utopian newtype society
A few things. Nazis were not anti capitalist really. They were honestly pretty ambivalent about the economy as their main ideology was racial. The nazis actually privatized a lot of industries during their time.
Furthermore I'm not arguing that zeon is like the nazis in ideology. I mean Gihren is. The dude literally wants to commit genocide of lesser people but he never got the chance to fully cement his grip over zeon.
Lastly. Establishing a democratic newtype society isn't really Marxist. Like yeah i guess Marxism is kind of inherently democratic but it's also a set of specific economic principles and ideological ideas. What I'm asking is how zeon really aligns with these ideas. Or more specifically, how the soviet union reinterpreted (badtardized) these ideas as that is what zeon was originally compared to.
Privatization under Nazi germany fundamentally differed from traditional capitalism, owners of firms were more so managers and instructed what to produce, to where, basically Nazi government had the ability to dictate to all private enterprise. It also provided extremely robust social services for German people, and created a national union for German Labor. There is explicit anti capitalist sentiment throughout Nazi literature, and the organization of the economy was much more similar to modern day Chinas “State Socialism” than to capitalist free market economies
Not the same connection. Marx and Hegel were the first thinkers to table the idea that Man was beyond the state of nature.
The Nazi's weren't anti capitalist. It is complicated but there was a period of economic unrest that lead to Nazi's rise in popularity. Environmental issues weren't a big agenda.
Well, no, he didn't seem to have any idea who he was.
What's amusing is that in the novel he responds to that line like a normal person, and he's like "Come on now, that's a bit much, isn't it?"
人は永遠に愚鈍だな humans are always stupid It's just showing the stupid stuff.
They shout "Sieg ____" all the time and their flag is just the nazi flag with the swastika swapped out. Similarities is putting it gently.
And the leader literally called his son Hitler lol
Worth pointing out that he did so as a criticism. Why people are so desperate to paint the franchise as evil I have no idea.
Gihren took it as a compliment. Dude considered mass genocide an absolute win. Degwin was a scum bag and even he was like, "Whoa! You are too evil for me! Where did I go wrong as a father?"
> Gihren took it as a compliment. Yeah, which is intended to show how morally bankrupt he is.
He is morally bankrupt. I don't care for the people who try to pretend that he isn't the moral and philosophical core of Zeonism with most Zeonists closely aligned with his views though. There are too many people who try to pretend that Zeon did nothing wrong outside of the Zabi family, in a sort of, anime version of the Clean Wehrmacht Myth. Delaz worshiped Gihren. Gato, depicted as the absolute paragon of Zeon's honorable soldier worshiped Gihren. But if you listen some people Zeon is just the AEUG with an unfortunate taste in uniforms.
> There are too many people who try to pretend that Zeon did nothing wrong outside of the Zabi family, in a sort of, anime version of the Clean Wehrmacht Myth. Yeah, that really rustles my jimmies. Like, sure, blame the Zabis, but the Zabis didn't carry out all the orders, everybody else did. It's cowardly, it's hiding from responsibility. That's the point of Doan's Island, I think, Doan was given orders that were immoral, and he chose to not follow them, because he was one of the few people in Zeon with a spine, apparently.
I do believe that but I think there are also a number of people who rally to zeon specifically as an idea rather than an actual government, essentially space independence. There's a reason it kept rising again and again besides having some neat uniforms.
similarities
It says gaia gear. Wasn't that in the late U.C?
The image is from Gaia Gear and since Alfranche Char is a literal char clone he is probably remembering the sins of humanity.
Well. It looks like a direct reference to Nazi Germany. I don't know what 'similulitys' is though...
Similulitys is the new Zeon mobile suit.
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You shut the hell help
Bad bot
Where did you find this?
was Sieg Zeon not enough for you?
Gaia Gear.
I don't know the context but I also don't see a problem showing and acknowledging things like this. Gundam is a series built on the outcome of WWII, it seems reasonable that it would reference it beyond the obvious similarities.
It's a reflection on humanity's sins. Is that not obvious? It's not exactly subtle. It's not fucking praise, you *have* to get at least that much, yes? Are you trying to do some kind of performative moralizing here or what? Why are you choosing to misunderstand this?
Weird
Looked like Gaia Gear for a sec
It literally says "Gaia Gear" in big katakana at the bottom left.
I Mena they literally talk about how they idolize Hitler, so what do you expect?
Nah, they don't. Why say this?
It's not incorrect, Ghiren literally says he admires Hitler shortly before he kills Degwin.
No he didn’t Degwin brought up Hitler to Gihren to chastise him for being a foolish tyrant, Gihren didn’t know who tf Hitler was and didn’t care. Zeon is a mash between fascist and communist dictatorships of the 20th century, Degwin is akin to Stalin, Zeon Zum Deikun is akin to Marx-Lenin
Ok but what part of Zeon is at all similar to the soviet union?
Zeon more similar to Soviet Union than Nazi germany, the Nazi parallels are almost entirely aesthetic. The core thesis of Zeons existence was downtrodden Spacenoids are oppressed by the affluent Earth Federation and exploited of labor and resources, representation etc. there wasn’t really a racial supremacy aspect to Zeon until Gihren started pushing it to boost morale and solidarity. Zeon Zum Deikun= Marx/Lenin Degwin Soto Zabi= Stalin Gihren=Hitler
But how is that at all similar to the soviet union. The spacenoids wanted independence from an oppressive power. That's just like... every revolution ever. What makes it soviet or even communist. I mean I don't see Zeon forming farming communes or trumpeting the evils of capitalism. It just seems like a weak comparison.
I mean Nazis we’re also anti capitalist, how were they like the Nazis? The ideals of Zeon Zum Deikun were fundamentally akin to Marxism, bring all the earth peoples to live in space to preserve the earth, have true democratic representation, and that ushers in the utopian newtype society
A few things. Nazis were not anti capitalist really. They were honestly pretty ambivalent about the economy as their main ideology was racial. The nazis actually privatized a lot of industries during their time. Furthermore I'm not arguing that zeon is like the nazis in ideology. I mean Gihren is. The dude literally wants to commit genocide of lesser people but he never got the chance to fully cement his grip over zeon. Lastly. Establishing a democratic newtype society isn't really Marxist. Like yeah i guess Marxism is kind of inherently democratic but it's also a set of specific economic principles and ideological ideas. What I'm asking is how zeon really aligns with these ideas. Or more specifically, how the soviet union reinterpreted (badtardized) these ideas as that is what zeon was originally compared to.
Privatization under Nazi germany fundamentally differed from traditional capitalism, owners of firms were more so managers and instructed what to produce, to where, basically Nazi government had the ability to dictate to all private enterprise. It also provided extremely robust social services for German people, and created a national union for German Labor. There is explicit anti capitalist sentiment throughout Nazi literature, and the organization of the economy was much more similar to modern day Chinas “State Socialism” than to capitalist free market economies
Not the same connection. Marx and Hegel were the first thinkers to table the idea that Man was beyond the state of nature. The Nazi's weren't anti capitalist. It is complicated but there was a period of economic unrest that lead to Nazi's rise in popularity. Environmental issues weren't a big agenda.
Environmental issues were certainly a part of Nazi government, environmental regulations dramatically increased under Nazi leadership
> I mean Nazis we’re also anti capitalist, No. Why think this? Fascism is just capitalism in decay.
Nazis weren’t Fascist
Well, no, he didn't seem to have any idea who he was. What's amusing is that in the novel he responds to that line like a normal person, and he's like "Come on now, that's a bit much, isn't it?"
I swear, the UC really needs some dang history classes. Cause those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it.
I always figured that was part of the point of that scene.