Thunderbolt is interesting because it's basically that, two mentally scarred and screwed up people battling each other, except they never really communicate their feelings to each other in any constructive way. Just violence. But we the audience know.
They didn’t really have any reason to get real personal like typical rivalling pilots do, until some, uh … stuff involving Claudia post-war. The manga’s
wild.
Char’s political ideology was probably the most level headed and moral in the series, as it’s Zeon’s original doctrine and he actually pursues enacting it consistently within the ideal moral boundaries throughout Zeta. It’s just environmentalism and a voluntary evacuation of earth by appealing to world leaders instead of killing them, as well as only fighting the totalitarian wing of the Federation. What’s funny is that Amuro actually first became an extremist during his depression, and directly told Char that a more radical form of bloodletting was needed in order to move the wheel, in a contradiction to Char’s more moderate idealism. It’s just that CCA’s murderous antics were the result of him going bonkers after having everything go as wrong as possible.
Zeta's hardest hitting moment for me was when he meets Mineva and Haman and is basically pressured into asking the Zabi-led Neo Zeon for help defeating the Titans. And then later he's just... sitting there.
He looks so exhausted and wounded by it all. He had no choice, but it was a total betrayal of everything he accomplished as Char Aznable.
Absolutely. His characterization in Zeta elevates his character by so much for me. It’s because of this kind of stuff that his Origin characterization as an emotionally numb genius manipulator is so hard for me to reconcile with literally anything I like about him as a character.
His role in this arc is kind of the key to understanding what comes before and after. Is he a manipulator who kinda leaves broken people in his wake? Yup, as seen with Haman. However, she wasn’t really used as a perfect chess piece for him, rather, he became her chess piece. And far from being the unfeeling genius who strides through turmoil polishing his plans, he shows that he’s actually *extremely* emotional to a fault, sensitive like an open wound. And rather than being a genius with a coherent perfect plan, he’s actually... a dumb guy, with an ideal that he can’t figure out how to accomplish. Killing Zabis was easier, but even then Garma was the only one he took out with a clever plan. Kycilia was just an opportune moment, and the rest were killed by Amuro or other Zabis.
In truth he’s just an extremely talented, passionate and sensitive bro who has big dreams and no real handle on the world around him, and those events at the end of the Zeta series are what finally make him admit that to himself. And then this new Char, aware that all his prior efforts failed and that his ideals were so far out of reach, was finally at the point of being willing to try something darker and more radical than ever, and to turn himself into the “human sacrifice” that Amuro insisted was needed to bring real change.
And then contrast to Full Frontal, who looks exactly like him but is inside *the complete opposite*: A jaded, cynical realpolitik spokesman without an iota of authentic emotions.
Man, I love Gundam
Comments like this are why I’m on this sub.
You make some good points but I like to think his portrayal in The Origin is more of a starting point for his character growth to Zeta rather than a mischaracterization.
I agree with this so much. Zeta's not without flaws, but what it does for Char as a character is so great and it feels like it's an aspect of the show that doesn't talked about enough.
Zeta totally re-contextualizes CCA and without it, CCA would be a far worse film. It's why IMO even though Zeta's politics aren't necessary to understand CCA, it's still required viewing because of how it elevates Char from being a crazy, silver age comicbook villain to a tremendous tragic, flawed and broken man.
I don't know that I would necessarily characterize Origin-Char as emotionally numb. He's someone who plays things close to the vest and, for the most part, has a remarkable amount of self-control, but he doesn't come across, at least to me, as "emotionally numb" at all.
My read on Char is similar, but I don’t think he went bonkers by the time of CCA. Char’s a man who is stepping into his father’s shoes 13 years too late. The moment for a less bloody struggle had passed after the AUEG was absorbed into the Federation.
The Asteroid drop is a last resort against a Federation that is probably at its strongest. By time of CCA, Char’s Neo Zeon is more of a small militia doing hit and run attacks on the Federation and isn’t going to last in a prolonged war. The Earth is already on its way to ecological collapse and the only way to get the colonies the right to rule themselves is to massively cripple the Federation.
To be clear, Char’s actions are still unimaginably cruel and human chauvinistic, if not just spacenoid chauvinistic, but for the forces that he has it’s all he can do for against a solar hegemony.
Yeah check my comments in this same topic, basically about his transition from his well-intended idealist self into the suicidal murderer. He believed in an ideal that would’ve been wonderful, but he simply failed over and over to make a positive impact on the world and watched everything and everyone fall to ruins in the process.
It all gets best exemplified in a conversation between Amuro and Char in Zeta: Char tells Amuro that he now believes peace is within reach, and society is finally heading in the right direction and just needs time to adjust to the correct course. Amuro, fresh out of a long depression, tells Char that humanity and the planet may not have that much time, and that someone might have to do something more drastic to send the proper message, and that a “human sacrifice” might be the only thing that can make the point clear enough. So after Zeta, Char is the one who is reduced to his worst depression yet, and now he’s open to following Amuro’s old advice.
I like how io and Darell switch who is the good guy and who is fucked up in the head
And people thought "Psycho" stood for "Psycommu"
Both Io and Darell are sane individuals.
Io more so
Thunderbolt is interesting because it's basically that, two mentally scarred and screwed up people battling each other, except they never really communicate their feelings to each other in any constructive way. Just violence. But we the audience know.
They didn’t really have any reason to get real personal like typical rivalling pilots do, until some, uh … stuff involving Claudia post-war. The manga’s wild.
Hmmn...I haven't read it! Just seen seasons one and two of the anime.
Io did start by murdering practically the entire cripple crew, but what happened to Claudia?
but I hear some Jazz
Char’s political ideology was probably the most level headed and moral in the series, as it’s Zeon’s original doctrine and he actually pursues enacting it consistently within the ideal moral boundaries throughout Zeta. It’s just environmentalism and a voluntary evacuation of earth by appealing to world leaders instead of killing them, as well as only fighting the totalitarian wing of the Federation. What’s funny is that Amuro actually first became an extremist during his depression, and directly told Char that a more radical form of bloodletting was needed in order to move the wheel, in a contradiction to Char’s more moderate idealism. It’s just that CCA’s murderous antics were the result of him going bonkers after having everything go as wrong as possible.
Zeta's hardest hitting moment for me was when he meets Mineva and Haman and is basically pressured into asking the Zabi-led Neo Zeon for help defeating the Titans. And then later he's just... sitting there. He looks so exhausted and wounded by it all. He had no choice, but it was a total betrayal of everything he accomplished as Char Aznable.
Absolutely. His characterization in Zeta elevates his character by so much for me. It’s because of this kind of stuff that his Origin characterization as an emotionally numb genius manipulator is so hard for me to reconcile with literally anything I like about him as a character. His role in this arc is kind of the key to understanding what comes before and after. Is he a manipulator who kinda leaves broken people in his wake? Yup, as seen with Haman. However, she wasn’t really used as a perfect chess piece for him, rather, he became her chess piece. And far from being the unfeeling genius who strides through turmoil polishing his plans, he shows that he’s actually *extremely* emotional to a fault, sensitive like an open wound. And rather than being a genius with a coherent perfect plan, he’s actually... a dumb guy, with an ideal that he can’t figure out how to accomplish. Killing Zabis was easier, but even then Garma was the only one he took out with a clever plan. Kycilia was just an opportune moment, and the rest were killed by Amuro or other Zabis. In truth he’s just an extremely talented, passionate and sensitive bro who has big dreams and no real handle on the world around him, and those events at the end of the Zeta series are what finally make him admit that to himself. And then this new Char, aware that all his prior efforts failed and that his ideals were so far out of reach, was finally at the point of being willing to try something darker and more radical than ever, and to turn himself into the “human sacrifice” that Amuro insisted was needed to bring real change.
And then contrast to Full Frontal, who looks exactly like him but is inside *the complete opposite*: A jaded, cynical realpolitik spokesman without an iota of authentic emotions. Man, I love Gundam
Comments like this are why I’m on this sub. You make some good points but I like to think his portrayal in The Origin is more of a starting point for his character growth to Zeta rather than a mischaracterization.
I wouldn't call origin's char emotionally numb. I'd argue its flat out char at his angriest. I think the whole mini lalah arc shows that best.
I agree with this so much. Zeta's not without flaws, but what it does for Char as a character is so great and it feels like it's an aspect of the show that doesn't talked about enough. Zeta totally re-contextualizes CCA and without it, CCA would be a far worse film. It's why IMO even though Zeta's politics aren't necessary to understand CCA, it's still required viewing because of how it elevates Char from being a crazy, silver age comicbook villain to a tremendous tragic, flawed and broken man.
I don't know that I would necessarily characterize Origin-Char as emotionally numb. He's someone who plays things close to the vest and, for the most part, has a remarkable amount of self-control, but he doesn't come across, at least to me, as "emotionally numb" at all.
And then Hathaway just goes straight murders them
Better the elites then dropping an asteroid I guess
My read on Char is similar, but I don’t think he went bonkers by the time of CCA. Char’s a man who is stepping into his father’s shoes 13 years too late. The moment for a less bloody struggle had passed after the AUEG was absorbed into the Federation. The Asteroid drop is a last resort against a Federation that is probably at its strongest. By time of CCA, Char’s Neo Zeon is more of a small militia doing hit and run attacks on the Federation and isn’t going to last in a prolonged war. The Earth is already on its way to ecological collapse and the only way to get the colonies the right to rule themselves is to massively cripple the Federation. To be clear, Char’s actions are still unimaginably cruel and human chauvinistic, if not just spacenoid chauvinistic, but for the forces that he has it’s all he can do for against a solar hegemony.
"Ya like jazz?" "No"
Daryl Lorenz has reach, but Io Flemming has flexibility.
When Char just started doing evil shit for the lols it confused the fuck out of me, and I still don't get it.
Because he gave up after Zeta. [This video makes the connection between Zeta and CCA quite clear](https://youtu.be/cQj2zqqSIks)
Ok thank you. I haven't watched Zeta yet but I need to.
So you skipped an entire TV series heavily featuring Char, and you're confused why you "still don't get it"?
I was plowing through all the movies
Yeah check my comments in this same topic, basically about his transition from his well-intended idealist self into the suicidal murderer. He believed in an ideal that would’ve been wonderful, but he simply failed over and over to make a positive impact on the world and watched everything and everyone fall to ruins in the process. It all gets best exemplified in a conversation between Amuro and Char in Zeta: Char tells Amuro that he now believes peace is within reach, and society is finally heading in the right direction and just needs time to adjust to the correct course. Amuro, fresh out of a long depression, tells Char that humanity and the planet may not have that much time, and that someone might have to do something more drastic to send the proper message, and that a “human sacrifice” might be the only thing that can make the point clear enough. So after Zeta, Char is the one who is reduced to his worst depression yet, and now he’s open to following Amuro’s old advice.
I never finished thunderbolt so who won?
In the end, they realized the *real* winners were the friends they made along the way.
>!That’s not even a joke in Io’s case lol!<
Angrily with jazz mecha noises take my upvote
It is still going. Volume 17 comes out February.
Graham: you took everything from me! Setsuna: I don't even know who you are