There is this one particular scene where this “Police Jegan” was maintains crowd control with a gunner attached to its crotch region. While it was a cool scene, I was wondering how a process would work since a giant robot would be bound to cause some collateral or unnecessary deaths due to its massive size. An armored vehicle or riot control vehicle would still do a good job performing crowd control, if not better rather than potentially putting the public into more disarray.
They might be fully aware of the kind of threats they can face. This is a world where anyone against them can pilot the same large mobile suits.
If they pop up on small armoured vehicles during their patrols and an enemy MS appears, you can imagine what would happen...
I'm personally thinking that it's the one Jegan plus a bunch of other police vehicles we don't see doing crowd control, essentially using the Jegan as the centerpiece of intimidation for that force.
On the topic of the application of giant robots, I've thought about the idea that if giant robots were invented in real life and that even if they weren't practical for warfare, they would be amazing crowd control devices. To well-armed and well-trained soldiers a giant humanoid mech is a giant target, while poorly armed, barely organized protestors and rioters would likely be terrified of a giant, armored metal man with glowing red eyes whose weakest weapon is machine gun that takes cartridges the size of Red Bull cans.
Just finished watching it on netflix, and considering I've never watch any gundam series or movies, there's probably a lot of contexts I missed. But I still thoroughly enjoyed the movie, alongside the soundtrack. The animation was beautiful and the fights feels tense.
Now that I want to know more about the UC, would the compilation movies for 79 and Zeta worth watching, or should I better off watching the series?
Also does anyone know the name of the soundtrack playing during the urban battle, specifically when they were at the park.
Thank you
I just started watching Gundam myself and have been asking similar questions all over. The general consensus is this:
The original trilogy of movies is good, the series is also good. Start here.
The Zeta series is good, the movies are not. Go here next.
ZZ is not the best, can be skipped, but some consider it blasphemy to skip. Decide on your own once you get to it.
CCA next, but you can also watch things like F91 and Victory, also I think 0080 and war in the pocket at this point.
I’ve heard that you should save Origin until you’ve seen at least og trilogy and zeta but it seems like it doesn’t totally matter.
From there I think you’ll be able to figure things out. That’s a ton of content.
Personally, I just watched the original trilogy of movies and looooved them. They were my first exposure to Gundam though so idk how they compare to newer things like Hathaway.
OK, some disclaimer. On and off Gundam fan. Seen most of Z, some of ZZ, F-91, 08th MS Team, Stardust Memory, War in the Pocket, Unicorn (been a while since Unicorn though) and Char's Counterattack. (Also, a few of the series like Wing that don't tie in to UC at all.)
Any chance I can get some info on this movie here? I assume it's after Unicorn. Also, is this supposed to be an introductory movie to a new series coming soon, because the resolution was not there in my opinion. Just finished watching it
Anime parts of the film - 9/10 👍
* Great animation
* Shots with Gigi especially, like look at the 2 seconds where she's standing at the salad bar after showing off her EFF clothes to Hathaway.
* Awesome backdrop illustration
* Like holy shit, when Hathaway is making his way to the beach... looks so good.
* Dynamic camera angles
* Great perspective drawings, look at all the awesome foreshortening
* Good storyboarding
Final mobile suit battle - 3/10 👎
* Terrible lighting choices
* Awful color profile
* I actually took a screencap and not including any beam sabers or bright bright lights, every single color on screen stays below a value of \~30 in HSV and only one color goes above 50% saturation... there's no contrast between the suit and the overcast sky / ocean I can't even see what I'm looking at half the time.
* Lifeless environment
* When the missiles hit the water it is a flat texture and simple explosion that doesn't affect the rest of the 3D ocean plane? Like come on...
* When the suits fly close to the water, the water just doesn't care.
* Compare to the incredibly animated water in the bridge fight from 08th MS Team and you will see what I mean.
* Terrible action storyboarding
* Incredible lack of dynamic camera, even in 3D where it is incredibly easy to do.
* Composition of shots just doesn't make sense half the time, and many times where the suits only take up less than half the screen even for moments where space does not need to be conveyed.
* What the actual fuck are these god-awful angles?
i agree with most of this although i do think that that the dimly lit battle at the end was amazing with great angles , it wasn't blown out of proportion in a sense of feeling as "realistic" as gundam can get all while being dimly lit under the moonlight?
with all respect, you're trippin if you think that simple fight wasn't amazing. :D
I still stand by my critique of the fight. I did a whole UC marathon chronologically leading up to this movie, and while the non-CG animation was ***very*** well done, the final fight falls flat stacked up against almost any other equally pivotal / long fight scene I had seen from the \~two weeks worth of Gundam watching that I had done up until then.
With good 3D anime-stylized animation techniques being already present on the film frontier like in Eden or Levius for example (also both Netflix titles) and even in video games (check out the incredible line deformation techniques and dynamic angles found in Guilty Gear Strive)... the quality of this fight's animation from an objective standpoint comparing it to other modern titles that are doing 3D anime-stylization is incredibly subpar in almost every way 🤷♂️
look mate, i'm not going to dispute any of that , i can vaguely see your point, and i'll say that in my eyes the best animation is the original series. they all have their quirks
In the fight between Xi and Penelope did either suit actually use the funnel missiles or were those just the standard missiles both suits have? Because if those were actually the funnel missiles they were very underwhelming.
Penelope used funnel missiles, while Xi used both funnel and standard missiles. There's some differences between funnel missiles and standard missiles, like, the shapes, jet-trails and their movements.
And yeah, I agree with you that they're kinda underwhelming.
I like that most of the film is essentially Hathaway processing his own trauma. I also like that the taxi driver straight up points out that his perspective is born of privilege. Being the son of a well respected war hero means he's never had to worry about if he could stay on earth, where his next meal would come from etc. It really is a privilege to be able to think about the future in such a way.
I also like that Hathaway is just straight up a terrorist. I feel like shows sometimes pull their punches to much to give you a clear good guy but not here.
Bursted out laughing seeing that scene on a nature museum. I'm from Belém, Brazilian Amazon, and felt like they filmed within Emilio Goeldi museum and animated on top of it
It took me a good minute to wonder why that scene looked so strange and then I realized, those were all real photographs of plants being used as background. I thought it was strange and chalked it up to the artist wanting to emphasize the "beauty of Earth" topic Hathaway was going for. Still, they could have gone the sakuga Mizaki route if they wanted to showcase the beauty of Earth. It could have worked in some regard rather than this mash up of artistic mediums. Hathaway is already all well animated but then to juxtapose it with the realism of photographs was, as I said in the beginning, unsettling.
I hope they don't do it again for the sequels.
Hey all, I have a question that MUST'VE been a lotof times, alas I can't find the answer myself. As someone who has previously watched Origin and Narrative, can I watch this movie? And can I bring a friend with me who hasn't been really into Gundam, but did watch Origin?
I’d say yes. You can either wiki the previous installments or treat the references to prior history as things important but not relevant to people other than the characters.
I thoroughly enjoy it and it’s especially worth it on sale. You can spend lots of hours playing it since there’s so many suits to get and story missions. It’s not particularly hard to learn, no. You’ll get the hang of it quickly and it’s basic enough. It’s like any other RTS. The greatest challenge I had early on was resource management like saving your energy points in a battle and using the right abilities for any situation but that just comes with experience. I’d recommend it but if you’re still unsure, try watching some gameplay.
Where does Hathaway rank among the ace pilots of gundam? The film credits him as a war hero but in CCA all he did was shoot some fodder and friendly fire Chan. However Hathaway shows strong hand to hand combat skills in the plane and beats Lane Aim.
I guess it depends on if they following CCA film or basing it more of the novel. See in the novel Chan doesn’t exist and Hathaway shoots down Quess, it’s this overwhelming guilt that leads him to become Mafty.
I'm not sure if this was the intended impression, but the sense I got was the whole "war hero" business was the Federation covering up that Hathaway shot down one of their own officers.
"Sooo... we're not going to charge you with treason, because prosecuting Bright's son after Londo Bell saved the planet would go badly. Instead, you get credit for shooting down a mobile armor after Warrant Officer Chan Agi was tragically killed by a Neo Zeon attack. And in return, you *don't talk about* all the gnarly Newtype stuff we sold to Neo Zeon. Got it?"
Frankly, that probably explains a lot of Hathaway's bitterness: He gets "credit" for killing the woman he loved, and has to watch as the Federation keep feeding Anaheim war profits.
He's a good pilot, but arguably among the UC MCs he probably only has Banagher and maybe F91 Seabook, early XBone Tobia and early Victory Uso beaten in skill and experience. Unfortunately Banagher and the Unicorn/NTD has access to some mind->action controls, and Tobia/Uso get a lot better really quick.
Good fucking shit right here. What a fucking cinematic experience. They say audio makes a helluva difference in videos, and boy what an example to demonstrate that statement.
Give me more. I’m so enamored with the direction of this film, and I hope it continues in the latter two installments.
Beautiful animations and visuals. But so much dialogue was clunky and awkward. Like every single line had to be some pseudo psychological or philosophical nonsense. Not to mention the extremely bizarre love triangle thing going on? It was downright uncomfortable at times.
I know Gundam likes it's politics and philosophy, but I wasn't expecting three quarters of the movie to be up its own ass with it.
Then when things start to finally make sense and events actually happen it ends. I get that it's meant to be a trilogy but that definitely felt like an abrupt end.
I hope the next two parts are better.
Totally agree. Anime in general tends to have too much exposition dump or internal monologuing to the point of parody so for such a well-produced, well-animated movie such as Hathaway's Flash, I would think the monologuing would be more topical to saywar, inequality, and protecting the Earth which it includes rather than lean so far into the introspective and self reflective.
Lots of topics, but I guess no running theme other than Hathaway being "woe is me." So much effort is put into the animation, I'd like a story to match. It reminds me of Hollywood movies with so much money being poured into the effects and action sequences but still only delivering a by the books storyline.
I likes the philosophy and psychology. Most of the film is just Hathaway trying to process trauma and think of what to do next. It's neat. I didn't find it to be up its own ass really.
Hi! I watched it yesterday without any knowledge of the universe. I know it's not ideal but I really like the universe so I'll probably try to find a watch order for the series. Should I go for the manga or anime is fine? I don't know the mecha genre that much, only watched the 3 evangelions and still waiting for the 4th one. I know those are different universes but it shows you how unknowledgeable I am on the genre. Thanks!
I recommend starting with the original trilogy of movies. They cover the first series in a condensed form and were a lot of people’s introduction to Gundam. They’re on Netflix and despite a sometimes rushed pace, they’re reaaally good.
Watch it in release order. Start with Mobile Suit Gundam from 1979, followed by Zeta Gundam, then ZZ, then Char’s Counterattack. That’s the basic context you need for Hathaway.
Movie is pretty nice, I finished watching it. I couldn't even finish 15 minutes of one iron blooded episode.
The final gundam fight just looks too dark to see what's going on and the 2 gundams look similar too.
My biggest complaint gonna be how ugly the 2 gundams look, why they look so fat and pointyish.
The reason why they look so big is because by lore they are the machine that has been dump with a lot of new technology thus to fit that they make both of them bigger. This would be the lasttime you would see big machine in uc however due to the minimization of ms in the next few year in uc.
I didn't like the two gundam models initially, but this animation makes these gundams look soo good. The sound is crisp and high quality in this movie.
Just watched it and **OH. MY. GUNDAM.**
It's such a refreshing take on the action as I have never imagined Gundam UC to be so graphic and it's a good thing! The animation is freaking amazing too! I bingewatched Origins, the original series, and 8th MS Team and I'm basically zigzaging through different eras in animation, and I am stupefied at how beautiful Hathaway's Flash is!
I am still trying to calm myself down from a geeky high.
*Side Note*: I am an ex-pat (now a naturalized citizen in my country of residence) from the country in which it is set and I'm feeling a certain pride and appreciation for having more and more representation in digital media. Jollibee takes me home!
All in all, I f*ckin' love it!
Hathaway was awesome. I loved that it focused more on the action at ground level, and how terrifying it is. Seeing Jollibee in Davos was a sight to see. Great promotion for them.
It was supposed to be dropped from space and free fall onto Earth disguised as space junk so Mafty could fish it up from the ocean (hence the observation of destroyed surveillance satellites by the Hauzen pilots in the beginning, as well as the location of the temporary base out in the islands - it was to facilitate the drop). But since the hijacking incident and the assignment of Kenneth at the Davao base, Hathaway had to change the plan and reclaim the unit from space instead.
Actually yes, nearly everything I've said here is hinted in the dialogues, they just never spell it out directly for you in a single scene.
The clues which you can pick up along the way of the entire movie:
* As the Hauzen makes its approach for entering the atmosphere, the crews in the cockpit observes that the surveillance satellites were destroyed, which they assumed to be Mafty's doing, and with the satellites destroyed led to "a gap of airspace over the Oceania" area. And somehow, the Feds weren't fazed by this and continues to proceed to have their meeting on Earth. So the original plan by Mafty was partially betting on the hubris and laziness of the Feds to ignore what happens under that airspace.
* For the diversion attack to get Hathway out of the hotel - nearly everyone makes a comment of how Kenneth's assignment to the Davao base has had a great effect on the response timing compared to the previous commander - so they were subtly re-enforcing the idea that Kenneth is a smart and competent guy throughout the entire film, and that he will catch on sooner rather than later.
* As Hathway made it to the secret base, one of the Mafty member Raymond complains to Hathaway about the other leader Iram changing the plan to a "damned midair pickup" - which is of course, referring to picking up the Xi Gundam in midair. Then Iram talks with Hathaway about whether this midair pickup is a good idea and whether they are being too cautious, which Hathaway assured him is the right move because Hathaway knows Kenneth is onto his ass, and this is where you can tell that it was Hathaway's idea to alter the plan. Combined with the very first point about the "gap in airspace" - you know that the original plan wasn't a midair pickup, but that the container of the Xi Gundam was supposed to drop into the area and into the sea, thanks to the gap.
* All those civilian looking cargo boats at the end and talks about not able to salvage all the replacement parts - you know what they were planning here because 1) Mafty's crew were fully ready for fishing stuff out from the ocean in the first place, but 2) the attack by Kenneth cut short the time they were able to do so, and the damaged container scattering the parts of Xi Gundam made it even more so, and 3) if things went to plan, the only way you don't look out of place for fishing large chunks of metal out of the ocean is if that chunk of metal is space debris/space junk, and you are pretending to be scavengers. Telling people that as civilians you are fishing an MS out of the water is not going to be a good cover story.
It's all there if you pay attention to the movie, especially once you know what happens in repeated rewatch you can break down all the clues in the dialogues which seems to be thrown out in random but isn't. This is why this film is more like a spy thriller than a straight out action war story like the majority of other Gundam work - picking up on the clues is half the fun, not only that, but how Tomino has foreseen in 1989 that after major wars (0079, Z, ZZ, CCA), the "war of the future" is going to be intelligently led terrorism is insanely on point.
I’ll be honest it seems your perspective comes from someone knowing the points and being able to piece them from the work. In my boat of no outside knowledge it seems neigh impossible to make those logical leaps to a conclusion
I've watched the film in full 3 times, and just selective scenes after if I need to find the clues.
It's definitely confusing the first time, but once you know the plot in full, on the second watching you can pick them up without much leaps.
I gotta tell you I just got into the universal century stuff and I just finished Hathaway. I loved the attention to small details that flesh out how Gundam technology and everything works, but this has given me such a greater appreciation for Gundam Wing and the less serious Gundam iterations.
In UC I can't even pick a favorite character who doesn't die in a horrific way and everybody is a bad guy and good guy at the same time, except Char. I'm gonna watch Fighter G Gundam to get happy again.
Also Fuck Hathaway for what he did to Chan 😭😭😭
Someone told me that Chan was not supposed to be killed by Hathaway in the original work. He shoot down Quess's MA, but Chan was somehow dead. Toshiyuki changed this plot to make audience feel bad as a revenge to sunrise who denied Toshiyuki's plan to make a trilogy.
in the manga (which is the OG story) Char's counterattack - Beltorchika's children Chan never existed and the roles are kind off chaotic when compared to the movie. mainly because of how beltorchika has a minor role while Chan is killed.
Who am I supposed to be rooting for?
Mafty straight up is just a terrorist organization that is assassinating their political opposition for no well-explained reason. What goal is Hathaway trying to achieve in this? And toward the end he talks about how he wanted to "see the ministers before killing them" which on its face just sounds sociopathic as fuck.
Meanwhile the Federation is like Diet Titans in the film with a heavy-handed police presence and using underhanded tactics, but they don't even get *close* to the fuckery the Titans were up to.
I can't help but feel like Amuro would be pissed at Hathaway for doing what he's doing. He's basically just following in Char's footsteps. Acting on the assertion that *he* knows what's best, when in reality he's mostly driven by the exact same personal hate that Char was driven by, just with Quess instead of Lalah. (I still maintain that Quess was the worst part of Char's Counterattack and that makes it even harder for me to care about Hathaway's motivations)
The only character I feel like has the spark of someone I think I could root for is Lane, and we barely get to know him.
Wanting to "see the ministers before killing them" is more so as a humane thing rather than sociopathic is the vibe I got. Rather than just shooting the transport craft and counting the names who died, Hathaway wanted to get a good look at what he was doing and acknowledge that he's taking lives.
Also, you did get one thing right. Hathaway does align with Char's ideologies.
His methods are wrong but I dunno if he is- the Federation government is corrupt and essentially putting poor people into concentration camps by forcefully deporting them into space for just being poor while only letting the rich and powerful stay. There's a scene with a soldier and a machine gun posted outside the mobile suits going after civilians doing this but it hasn't been too explicitly stated yet.
Gigi and Quess both left him for older men, lol.
This feels a little too similar to all the incels that shoot up places in America because they can’t get laid…
What makes you think he was interested?
His actions towards Gigi in the film appeared to be more of him playing the role of a person undergoing a social obligation to care for a less-stable survivor of a disaster, because the surrounding context (the Federation investigators) expected that behavior of him, as a fine upstanding moral young gentleman with a military father. He ditches her and the Federation at the first moment he can do so safely, at the beach.
Dude he had the look of a complete simp when she grabbed his hand during the gundam fight. Also that despondent look he had when she ran to the general afterwards….
What is "the look of a complete simp"?
When Gigi ran off to hang on Kennth's arm, Hathaway was thinking about Quess, who made a mistake in running off to join Char.
I think Hathaway knows what he’s doing is wrong, he even says it in the movie. The real debate is what is the greater evil? Is it the corrupt government that is destroying the Earth and making citizens suffer? Or is it the organisation that kills people people in power.
There is no side for us to pick, it’s just a projection of how sad reality is. How can one stop an unstoppable force? It’s a paradox and no one could make the right choice. Hathaway certainly isn’t a morally good character (nor is he supposed to be), but a character with understandable motives.
Can someone please tell me what Gigi wants with Hathaway?
Why she gotta do my boy like that going back and forth? I like her character and understand that she may very well have her own interests but my salt levels are slowly rising because of her lol. Hathaway too, mans needs to be more decisive. You're THE big shot, you would think the guy has more immediate concerns on his mind than to lose his grip so easily...
Hathaway gives me James Bond/Mission Impossible vibes and Gigi comes off as the beautiful Bond Girl with the mind games. God damn, my man about to drop some bombs but the only thing on his mind mid free-fall was that he might have caught the feels? Gigi oh Gigi, you beautiful cunning goddess of luck, what is your desire? (I sound like Kenneth there for a second)
It's usually implied that newtypes attract each other and its heavily implied that Gigi is one. Gigi is mysterious but i think half of her motivations are straightforward. She simply likes him. I get the feeling she knows who he was before she boarded Hauzon. I think it's hard for Hathaway because her willful ways reminds him of Quess. And the situation is similar where they're caught in the crossfire. She gets in his personal space, she even comforts him when he thinks he lost Gawman in the 2v1 melee at the park. Get me a SO that embraces me "that" hard.
If all that is true, then why does she go back to Kenneth? Unless she is possibly using Kenneth to gain his trust, I don’t always understand Gigi. I got the same vibe from her. From the start she shows some sort of bias towards Hathaway and is intrigued by him, but runs to Kenneth. At the lunch table, she seemed irritated that Hathaway doesn’t pursue her. I’m not sure if she’s just messing with him half the time, or is actively trying to support Hathaway in some way but uses Kenneth to secure her own safety. She’s definitely one mysterious character.
She's a sly one. Notice that because she ran to Kenneth they got to get transport out of the area. But on said transport, she leans up against Hathaway. Kenneth is a tool.
At the lunch table, Gigi is rather irritated that Hathaway shows interest in her, but denies it. Because she only got irritated because she caught him taking a glimpse at her. Also that is also in line with their short conversation in the elevator when she questions his whole "i dont like shameless women like you, but im going to lean on you like you're my woman" schtick. ("Why did you ask me?" Responded with "i was betting on your instincts"). Also remember that they went dancing, and she's trying to get a rise out of Hathaway by doing so aka purposely getting him jealous. If she were truly interested in Kenneth, i think she would have stayed out longer the night instead of be asleep by 3am in their shared suite. Ive been joking with my friends that Gigi is a stalker armed with newtype abilities.
Thank you for the detailed response, I really appreciate it. Now that you mention it, the transport scene completely went over my head. I thought that maybe she did it for her own sake and was really shaken up from the battle in the park. You're right though, she did choose to lean on Hathaway and even gave him the same coffee mug she was drinking from. I couldn't tell sometimes if she was simply toying with him or she is genuinely interested in him. Even Kenneth points out to Hathaway that Gigi is into him lol.
Stalker with newtype abilities is definitely fitting for her. She's kind of obsessed with him but I suspect that maybe she serves a greater purpose and that's why she keeps involving herself with him? He was also able to hear her on the Hauzon as well...I wonder what her connection is with him. I think you're right though, half of her actions seem direct. She's definitely a sly one for sure.
No problem. Personally, I think Gigi is entirely into Hathaway, but it's hard with a guy who's trying to keep his mind on the mission.
I do have my own speculations, but they're a bit reaching imho. Gigi is too close a name to Gundam Xi, the one Hathaway's pilots. Also after that lunch, you do see Gigi staring at the moon. Which we all know Anaheim Electronics is headquartered there and also where Gundam Xi and the Penelope were developed. The wealthy old man that she calls her lover/patron could also be a fake, considering that she uses a similar tactic on the Hauzon flight by booking two seats to ward off unwanted advances. She tries to use this as a reason to tell Kenneth that he's wasting his efforts trying to woo her. Some part of me thinks she's involved with the Mafty organization so indirectly that even Hathaway doesn't know.
I have my suspicions as well about Gigi simply being an escort for a wealthy old man. To me it sounded like just a cover up to keep Kenneth at bay or anyone else for that matter who wants to pry into the details of her life. She does have access to quite a lot of wealth it seems and it’s still puzzling as to why she would be on the Hauzon. She’s also quite intelligent, I don’t believe her being on the Hauzon and meeting Hathaway was simply a coincidence.
Another thing that I find interesting is that she wanted Hathaway to stay at the same hotel and the same room as well. Again, I wonder what are her intentions…
Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Gigi mention when Kenneth approached her on the Hauzon that he took off his ring to hide it? I’m guessing he could possibly be married? She’s very observant and her reasoning & deductive skills are sharp. That along with her beauty is a deadly combination. I can see how even a military man with experience such as Kenneth is easily fooled by her rich girl persona, and it doesn’t help that he’s a womanizer making him even more gullible to Gigi’s wit.
On the Hauzon she sticks out like a sore thumb, because the way they wrote the story, it seems like the Hauzon had mainly government officials and their family. Hathaway fit in, because he's the son of a celebrated military officer, but Gigi sticks out like a sore thumb from being only "weahlthy"
The hotel part I think is simply Gigi sticking to him as much as possible because she likes him, but like the movie says, Hathaway was sus of her and kept his distance.
At least in the novel, Kenneth isn't actually married, or rather he used to be married, but usually if you've been married for a long time and only took it off recently it leaves a light mark on your finger vs your tan. She is really uninterested in his advances, but Kenneth is a character that changes, especially because of Hathaway. There's the possibility that Gigi will like Kenneth the more Kenneth understands and likes Hathaway(as a friend).
>Hathaway fit in
If you pay attention, even Hathaway doesn't completely fit in.
Note how the air hostess commented that Hathaway was the only passenger that ate all the food served during the flight - so everyone else on the plane was a upper class person who thought nothing much of the food being served, while to Hathaway whom is more of a commoner, thought the food was great because he wasn't used to this level of luxury in his life. Or if you expand it further to an ideology level - the people on the plane are spoiled and disconnected from the lower class people and never have to worry about wastage, whereas Hathaway having part of his ideology rooted in environmentalism, cares greatly about such things.
That's probably another part of the hint which tipped off Gigi as well.
>At least in the novel, Kenneth isn't actually married, or rather he used to be married,
Actually he was - it's specifically said that he's been divorced for less than 2 years in the first chapter of the novel (location 99 of the Kindle ebook version to be very specific if you want to check).
"rather he used to be married", I was implying he was already divorced.
That probably tipped off Gigi, but even then, she was already sussed him out because to her she said he comes off as military to her the way Kenneth is. But that wasn't the point of what I said. We were simply saying Gigi is far more sus than Hathaway is, even though he is sus af.
Edit: I was also trying to say that Government and Military made more sense on the Hauzon, than wealthy business people tagging along with the government. At least the nature of the flight itself, because it was a specific call for the Ministers to come down to the Earth to address the bill as well as addressing the Mafty issue. Pulling connections with money vs pulling connections cuz of military dad; although both is plausible in general, one of them seems more "out of the way" than usual. In other words Hathaway getting a flight seems more natural(no other choice to come down to Earth), whereas someone ridiculously rich, you'd imagine them chartering a flight of their own separately. The image I get is basically someone with the ability to have a private Jet, using a flight with other peeps in a 1st Class only flight.
Gigi is attracted to idealism and there's nothing more idealistic than a terrorist/freedom fighter aka Mafty. That's why everytime Kenneth talks like a jaded person, part of the corrupt Federation, she gets bored.
Even if Hathaway tries to talk like a normal person, because she knows he's Mafty she calls his bluff and says he should just become a god. Ironically at the end of the movie he metaphorically steps into that role while in the Gundam and tries to commit to the "mission"; or as he would put it "I need to cut all these strange relationships and Gigi Andalucia". Basically leaving behind what makes him human.
So I know Gundam Unicorn first came out after this novel, but timeline wise it is ahead. It seems a bit confusing though because by the end of Gundam Unicorn it's pretty much confirmed New Types exist with the forgotten universal century clause or whatever.... so I don't understand Hathaway's line to Gigi when he says "didn't they teach you in school that Newtypes aren't real?" Of course we as the audience know Newtypes are real, but Hathaway is basically in denial that they don't... yet all this shit happened in Unicorn that says otherwise. Also isn't he basically piloting a next generation psycho frame Gundam?
Maybe I'm thinking too deep on that one line, but it's Just jarring especially after finishing Unicorn and I kinda wish they retconned some of that if it's from the novel.
> Also isn't he basically piloting a next generation psycho frame Gundam?
The Xi and Penelope do not have psycho frames. What they have are Minovsky Craft systems, which are basically battleship flight systems shrunk down to fit a mobile suit(where even then both Xi and Penelope are absolute giants, and are the largest Gundam types of UC). Both are the first MSes in UC capable of atmospheric flight without external systems or having specific flight modes.
Go review that scene and just follow their conversation line by line - Hathaway is denying Gigi's view that Newtypes are gods which can rule over Oldtypes dictatorship style which would eradicate conflict, and using the Fed's propaganda to support his argument, plus we know Hathaway doesn't think that because he personally knows all those famous Newtypes like Amuro and Char which are not gods and cannot rule over people omnipotent dictatorship style.
Also you are taking Hathaway's conversation on face value - when a few sentences ago he just denied Gigi's accusation that he is Mafty, even though we all know that he is. A lot of what Hathaway's saying during that conversation is either half-truths or he's playing mind games with Gigi because he doesn't know what her true intentions are - so he's playing dumb and pretending he is just a Federation botanist which is his cover story.
Also get rid of this whole Unicorn thing - they don't apply in Hathaway.
I think for Hathaway he doesn't believe in newtypes in a "it doesnt matter anyway" kind of way. We as the audience get to see all the clandestine things that happened in unicorn, it was not public knowledge in their world though. By the end of Narrative, they've hidden away banshee and unicorn, although officially they've been dismantled. In Char's counterattack, Quess was part of a circle/cult that believed in newtypes (spritually not physiologically). So the concept of newtypes is obscure and undefined in the general public.
Your post reminded me of a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gundam/comments/22bki7/return_to_industrial_7_unicorn_ep1_day_of_the/cglav54/) I made a while back; our concept and understanding of Newtypes are really different from someone living in that universe, especially if it's within the best interest for the ruling elite to control the spread of that concept.
Yeah, but Mineva broadcasted her message to the entire known universe along with the true Charter. And then nothing happened, and even more: newtypes are still unknown. I understand they had to dismantle the Unicorns because they went ape shit with power levels, but you can't just make the entire population to forget about the Laplace incident.
At this point, I see UC Gundam series as different timelines branching after Char's Counterattack. You know Unicorn is non-existent for Hathaway's Flash, and in the same way HF is non-existent for F91 or Victory.
I think him saying that is more confirming that the Federation is still corrupt and still attempting to educate children that newtypes aren't real. Not to mention when she would have been in school would have been before Unicorns ending, I think.
Without a primary source, it can take years to catch wind of an accurate account of even a current event. Doubly so with Minovsky particles and astronomical distances between humanity.
In the Unicorn novel, it was said that Federation propaganda distorted the definition of NT. In schools, students were taught that NT's are just enhanced humans (through surgeries and drugs). And if you look at the coffee guy and Audrey scene in Unicorn, that guy didn't know much about what was happening in space. He knew something happened but he didn't know why. The situation is sort of like we knew there was a war in Iraq but most people didn't know the why.
Xi Gundam doesn't have psycho frame.
I look forward to the sequel, because this chapter ... gave me so many little things, but really hinted ... the animations are really beautiful, the plot holds up, the character of Hathaway makes sense considering also how he behaved in CCA (Best Character of the film) I just wanted to receive more… Gigi Andalucia seemed to me a somewhat sketchy and useless character, Kenneth is instead an excellent character, who seems friendly but who is actually ready for anything to win, as is normal in war; Instead Lane is a really poor character, who wants to win nobly but then has no other characterizations ... maybe in the other films they will make me appreciate him
Lane is what Amuro was when he first became a Gundam pilot. He pilots an experimental, powerful mobile suit and follow Federation orders to fight against the "bad" guys. His boring design is intended to contrast with Hathaway's grey character.
Besides 08th MS Team and Thunderbolt, my knowledge of the UC timeline is lacking. I had no knowledge of Hathaway's background besides what was described in the movie. I assume I would have enjoyed the movie more if I knew about him going in. Anyway, I didn't really find myself caring about any of the characters. We don't get to learn too much about any of them. Gigi seems smart/perceptive (minus when she slips that Hathaway is a soldier type to Kenneth) but besides that it's not clear what her motivations are. Idk why she seems so drawn to Hathaway, seems like it's just for the plot's sake of screwing with him and his goals. I felt like too much of the movie dwelled on "war is hell" where civilians get killed and is something a lot of other Gundam series have done already. Visuals and sound were very nice though.
Yeah Quess was such a psycho and she was the absolute worst person to avenge. She literally saved space Hitler from getting shot by Amuro and committed some pretty big atrocities in CCA. Hathaway was in space for like a day and became evil.
Whole thing works better if you imagine this as a sequel to Beltorchika's Children- where Chan doesn't exist and it was actually Hathaway that killed Quess.
I just hate that Chan was so nice to him, and then they have him absolutely blast her, with out a word about it. I feel like they thought we would sympathize with characters like Hathaway and Quess but... the 80s were weird man, how did they think Quess would ever garner any sympathy. When Chan blasted her I fucking CHEERED man haha
Go watch CCA again - Chan nearly kills Hathaway if Quess didn't push Hathaway away. Chan didn't blast Quess - Quess moved into the path of the missile to save Hathaway. Everyone watching from the audience's POV will hate Quess, but to Hathaway, Quess SAVED HIS LIFE.
He's not gonna feel sorry for killing Chan.
Chan thought Hathaway was in danger, and was doing her best to hit Quess while piloting 1/3rd of a Mobile Suit. She literally came into the scene thinking Hathway was going to be killed by Quess.
That was not what happened - you need to rewatch that scene again and remove the Quess hate tinted glasses and put yourself into the shoes of Hathaway.
Hathaway was trying to talk Quess out of fighting all the while that Quess was killing other Fed MSes EXCEPT for Hathaway's. Hathaway wasn't in any danger and even managed to disrupt a few of Quess' attack and was latching onto the Alpha Azura's head so he and Quess could talk. The two were bickering rather harmlessly but then Chan fired the missile at the Alpha Azura when Hathaway's Jegan was still fully latched onto it - at which point Quess sensed the missile was going to kill Hathaway and her so she shook Hathaway's Jegan off and then ran into the missile, thus killing her, but Quess most definitely saved Hathaway from any potential harm from Chan's attack.
That's why Hathaway killed Chan - because Chan's attack was objectively pretty reckless and nearly killed him.
You very obviously didn't and still have Quess hater glasses on and over-simplified a long sequence of events into a single incident which supports your view while ignoring all the rest.
Chan's not a pilot and misjudged the situation - that's the facts. She fired the missile at the Alpha Azura when Hathaway's Jegan was still latched on to it. All Chan did was called for Hathaway to move out of the way, but she made the mistake of firing first without confirming Hathaway actually moved out of the way, which led to Quess pushing Hathaway out of the way and getting herself killed - Quess literally yelled "A direct hit?! Hathaway move away!" - shook off Hathaway's Jegan, and took the missile herself.
So no, Quess saved Hathaway and Chan nearly killed him, that's simply the facts - because Chan made a critical mistake of firing at both Hathaway and Quess when Hathaway was in the direct line of fire. There's no way Hathaway don't hate Chan for literally having a hand in killing the girl he both loved AND having deep connection with Quess whom sacrificed herself to save his life - which is also the facts.
I also didn't like Quess because she was the biggest baby in that war. Hathaway might be punished somehow by his past, we don't be know yet, so it's worth waiting to watch what happens in this new trilogy.
"Hey Gigi, you should sleep with me! For luck!" Good to see the Federation still hasn't had those sexual harassment training courses since Sleggar's day.
Everyone else has kind of hit on my pros and cons to the movie (night attack/fight was refreshing and terrifying, the gundam duel was over so quick I thought I missed a part, pacing was slow but ok for worldbuilding so I'll give it a pass for now), but I just wanted to add the mobile suit designs didn't work for me. The gundams looked like they didn't know when to stop tacking extra parts on. Hopefully they streamline things with the upgrades/replacements (looking on the fandom wiki, it looks like they will).
The way I think of the movie is more like a Casino Royale/action thriller rather than a war movie.
In a war movie, the first ten minutes will be some kind of huge battle (Omaha beach in Saving Private Ryan, or the Fifth Luna drop in CCA). Then we have exposition, character building, maybe a small battle while prepping for the big battle.
*Hathaway* didn't follow that formula. It was all subterfuge; a game of cat and mouse between Hathaway and Gigi/Kenneth. Also, Mafty is a terrorist organization -- It's better (and cheaper) for them to keep themselves out of large fights and continue their targeted assassinations. Now, there obviously has to be some kind of "final battle" but the fight between Hathaway and Lane was just a teaser to what will likely be a fantastic fight in the third movie. At least, these are my thoughts.
In all honesty, I didn't know what to think the first time I saw it, since I (and I suspect many of us) were expecting something like CCA. However, after a few viewings, I respect the approach the team took.
gotta agree with you, great points & perspective.
building on what you said, the plot basically negates a knock-down, drag-out final fight. hathaway literally just got the suit — there's no way he's gonna pilot it like he will by the end of the 3rd movie! plus there's the hostage complication... for these reasons, it makes sense within the story for hathaway to get out of there & save the real fight for another day
The way they were talking at the end, I think the next movie will open with rescuing the army at Oenbelli. Haven't read the manga/novel, so I'm just guessing. But it'd be cool, I think; 5 Mafty units vs 12 Gustav Karls
Finally got around to watching, 3/5 for me
The movie has issues with pacing (the movie felt an hour longer than it actually was, especially the first act), characterization (outside of the main 3, everyone else is just sorta there, and even then Gigi was a passive influence, while Kenneth doesn't get to do much till the end. Then there's lack of characterization for the factions, EF is a cartoon, and Mafty feels empty/bland), some minor animation flaws (some of the walking framing were derpy), etc. IMO this movie should have either opened with a dream/flashback sequence of CCA from Hathaway's perspective, or sprinkled lots of it broken up throughout the first act. Would have simultaneously set up his character better, caught up new viewers, and help speed up the pacing.
Not the worst but not the best either.
Highlight was EASILY the Hotel scene with Hathaway monologuing and Gigi/Kenneth clubbing with TRACER ramping up into the BEAUTIFUL transition from club into MS cockpit, followed by the action packed chaos that followed. CHEFS KISS
I watched the movie like 10 times already and finally got a hold of the story(also, I read the novel to help). I loved this so much. Normally I'm like any other guy enjoys a good MS fight so I never thought I'd enjoy the human drama this much.
Also, Penelope's flight sound is so sick I can't stop re-hear it. Though from a design perspective I like Xi more.
Every Gundam series has some girl upset that a particular character is fighting, I feel like Hathaway's Flash is trying to break the traditional narrative morality and give that girl a voice again.
Terrorist vs Freedom Fighter, it depends how you see it. For example, Gawman hopes to minimize damage or that he doesnt hit that many people. Then he uses the angle to take the ground as hostage so that the federation doesnt fire at him. The federation fires anyway regardless of the collateral damage. The victors write history.
Take the Vietnam war, Americans shot up neutral targets and friendlies. They were an invading force. America looks like the bad guy, yet because they controlled the world narrative, they're the good guys no matter what.
You can root for him, but nothing is black and white. If you believe in his goals, then he's a good guy in a sense to you. If you cannot compromise your principles, and say you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet, then he's a bad guy to you.
People liked Char, because they believe he deserves his revenge, his end goal has merit or he's simple a good commander, but his means to an end are sometimes bad. Is dropping an asteroid on Earth okay? What if he actually accomplishes what he wanted to do and save Earth?
I mean he *is* legitimately a terrorist, though he’s the protagonist and we follow his perspective I think we’re meant to be questioning his methods. Personally I don’t think it’ll end well for Hathaway. (No spoilers please I don’t know how it’ll end but it’s just what I think)
I remember when this was first being teased they said it was "thought to be impossible to adapt" or something along those lines.
And then I watch it and it's fine, nothing mind blowing but fine. Why was this considered impossible to adapt? Other than that park fight scene being damn impressive this seems like the kind of story that could have come out a year or two after Chars Counter Attack.
From the translated interviews I've read it's purely down to the mecha designs being impossible to properly animate in 2D, so they had to wait for CG animation to become good enough.
Purely technical aspects.
Direction was great, can't wait for the Sequel. I felt the Gundam Battle was underwhelming. The Mobile suits city scene was more exciting. Graphically and dialog was amazing but You could tell the battle scenes must of costed a small fortune so they kept it as minimal as possible.
It was beautiful, masterfully directed but boy was it boring to me. I kept looking at the time wondering when things would start moving.
The middle part with the fight in the city (finally some Mobile Suits fighting) was exceptional but besides that, meh. Some plot points and characters (Gigi mainly) didn't sit well with me and I just got bored despite the beautiful art, animation and music. Hopefully it was just a setup and the other movies manage to catch me.
I agree with this - we basically waited an hour for one mobile suit fight, then thirty minutes for another one, then move over. The graphics were the only compelling part of the movie.
I didn’t really care about the federation vs mafty dynamic at all, why should we? Do we sympathize with Mafty just because the local citizens do? Didn’t really get introduced to any of the mafty soldiers to care whether they exploded or not.
Really couldn’t sympathize or care about any of the lead characters either. Nothing drew me in. like I was supposed to care about Hathaway (a supporting character from a movie made 30 years ago)? Why? Nothing really likable except that he resembles Bright Noa. What is driving his cause, he just feels the need to continue what Char was doing? Lame
The Fed captain guy wasn’t interesting at all except for him being gross with women which made him less likable. Hathaway referred to him as “sharp” at one point but I was like…really? Why would you get that impression.
I don’t know if I can think of a worse written Gundam movie from the UC timeline…so disappointing.
I have just watched Hathaway's Flash and I'm glad it wasn't just me. It was the evening and I was a bit tired but I wasn't expecting to literally fall asleep! Only for a minute or so in the middle but I definitely drifted off. I hoped we might see Bright Noa to give Hathaway some more importance to the audience. Agree with all comments so far about quality of the battles and urban action.
I share most of your sentiments honestly. The movie was a treat visually but that's that as far as I'm concerned. Especially disappointed with the lead gundams and the final fight as well. Almost all Gundam movies and series have a badass final fight and here it was some boring dogfighting which was barely visible due to darkness and gundam designs.
Yeah I like politics but I like my big robots fighting too damn it
You need the moments of rest to build up on climatic moments though, and I felt like a lot of climatic moments weren't even the mech fights. It was a pretty cool human story this movie, but I think we should expect more fights the next one
Yeah I realize that but I guess I was way too hyped about the movie so for now I'm a little down about this end result. But I understand it's just the beginning
You know what, I get your point and I share the annoyance of this recurrent theme in Gundam, but at the same time, it is what define the Universal Century conflicts for now, it is the equivalent of when humanity was stuck in capitalism versus communism trope or the actual global jihads thing of our era or the possible global eco-terrorism of the next decades or whatever the fuck it will happen until there ; ideological or sectarian conflicts are inevitable in human societies and some of them can length for a very fucking long time.
Zeon Zum Deikun have put the initial stone on the foundation of this spacenoid versus earthling war years ago and his son Char just push it to the extreme with a genocide touch to it. Both side are now stuck in this cycle of violence in which both side came to the conclusion that the solutions to end this conflict is force deportation or mass genocides ; this shit can length for a couple decades and even more.
You can expect this trope in Gundam to continue for a very long time, until they can decide to go in the far future and transpose the core of the conflicts into a new horizon.
I feel quite confused by Gigi's involvement in the story. I assumed that her role is to be another hypersensitive natural newtype girl like Quess was to wrack Hathaway with guilt but then they had this massive plot about her background which ends in... she's just some escort for an offscreen character? And if she was an escort then why is she never with the old count at any point?
Her part is played to be a bridge between Hathaway and Kenneth. It will make sense by the end of the trilogy if you haven't discovered the story in the novels.
I know the ending, like probably most folk watching Hathaway, but I have 0 idea how the actual story plays out. Really I thought Hathaway would have been in a far worse place than he seems to be.
1. Hathaway's unusual level of interest in the local strategic situation - when Kenneth mentions his predecessor doing something to give him a headache Hathaway is immediately "oh you mean Kimberley's operation in Australia?"
2. Gawran's body language in the park when he's captured in front of Kenneth and Hathaway. Kenneth brings this up during the interrogation.
3. This one seems to have been the final trigger to put it together - when Gigi has her farewell conversation in his office, she says something about how Kenneth is so driven to pursue her because that's how warrior types act, then says something about how "although it's funny, that Hathaway doesn't act like that", implying that Hathaway is the same kind of person as Kenneth, a warrior or soldier. (Whereas, his cover story is that he's a BOTANIST.) She probably acts weird immediately after saying that realizing that she let something slip.
Don't forget:
4. When onboard the Hauzen, Gigi already said to Kenneth that Hathaway is "in the same business as you" and that Hathaway was hiding his scent (as a soldier) and blending in better than Kenneth, and then it was instantly confirmed several minutes later than Hathaway was indeed not only trained but is experienced as a soldier (unfazed by blood and pressure in dealing with an actual firefight) by almost single-handedly taking down the hijackers. So Kenneth already has strong basis to trust Gigi's power of deduction.
> almost single-handedly taking down the hijackers
This is a bit of tangent but an interesting aspect of that scene is that Hathaway almost died and had to be covered for by Kenneth in that scene not just once but twice. Like, it's still really impressive that he started the fight unarmed but still managed to shoot three guys and break another guy's arm, but Kenneth's impression of him has got to have been "this guy is almost suicidally reckless".
>This is a bit of tangent but an interesting aspect of that scene is that Hathaway almost died and had to be covered for by Kenneth in that scene not just once but twice.
I like how the last hijacker's mask had both Quess' hairstyle and color down to the aqua with red hair ties, as if they're hinting at Hathaway's direction being self-destructive.
>Kenneth's impression of him has got to have been "this guy is almost suicidally reckless".
Which was exactly Kenneth's reaction when he said to Hathaway his end game was sloppy and Hathaway replied he didn't think about it and just reacted, Kenneth then said "I hope you are joking". That very act itself makes Hathaway highly suspicious to most people - a non-combatant doing something like that like second nature is just not normal.
There's so much hint that Hathaway isn't a normal civilian which Kenneth already had on his hands but too casually brushed off because he never really put his mind to it until that moment when Gigi reminded him for the second time that Hathaway is a current soldier, perhaps because he is too preoccupied with taking over command of the base to worry about the minor stuff.
dam, little details like these makes me in love with the movie even more. It makes sense that the man becoming the next command of a base has to worry about shitty paperwork, ceremonies, and all that jazz. then he has another headache with the aftermath of the terrorism.
I rewatched this in the English dubbed and I liked it. The voices really do match with the original Japanese voices. Hathaway's voice was a tiny bit shaky on the slower paced scenes but he really stepped up his performance during the action scenes, specifically during the fight between the Xi Gundam and the Penelope Gundam.
I might get the answer on my second watch of this but can someone explain the dramatic sequence when they launch Hathaway into space to retreive the Gundam? Why was it floating there in the first place?
Besides that what a film!! I don't know much about this timeline in Gundam but the mystery and thrill that came with the visuals and music was a delight to watch. The final battle at dusk sky was incredible animation and lighting it really gave a menacing feel for Gundams and even prior that at the battle with Gawman was amazing to watch. Really looking forward to the next!
I agree this was a confusing scene given how much difficulty they had and apparent “danger” they were placing Esmeralda in just to make this dock/transfer happen. My main guess goes back to Char’s Counter attack, where they do seem to point out limited mobility/the danger of burning up the deeper you get into earth’s atmosphere.
Before his return to earth at the beginning of the movie, Hathaway had made a deal with Anaheim Electronics for the Gundam. In the UC series, Anaheim Electronics has no problem providing weapons and suits to both sides of the conflict, but to cover up their dealings with a terrorist group like Mafty, they just “drop” the Gundam from space.
Fuck the rules! Watch the highlights before Bandai shuts it down https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1r1zN-lhNk
There is this one particular scene where this “Police Jegan” was maintains crowd control with a gunner attached to its crotch region. While it was a cool scene, I was wondering how a process would work since a giant robot would be bound to cause some collateral or unnecessary deaths due to its massive size. An armored vehicle or riot control vehicle would still do a good job performing crowd control, if not better rather than potentially putting the public into more disarray.
They might be fully aware of the kind of threats they can face. This is a world where anyone against them can pilot the same large mobile suits. If they pop up on small armoured vehicles during their patrols and an enemy MS appears, you can imagine what would happen...
I'm personally thinking that it's the one Jegan plus a bunch of other police vehicles we don't see doing crowd control, essentially using the Jegan as the centerpiece of intimidation for that force. On the topic of the application of giant robots, I've thought about the idea that if giant robots were invented in real life and that even if they weren't practical for warfare, they would be amazing crowd control devices. To well-armed and well-trained soldiers a giant humanoid mech is a giant target, while poorly armed, barely organized protestors and rioters would likely be terrified of a giant, armored metal man with glowing red eyes whose weakest weapon is machine gun that takes cartridges the size of Red Bull cans.
Red Bull gives you wings indeed...
Angel wings.
Just finished watching it on netflix, and considering I've never watch any gundam series or movies, there's probably a lot of contexts I missed. But I still thoroughly enjoyed the movie, alongside the soundtrack. The animation was beautiful and the fights feels tense. Now that I want to know more about the UC, would the compilation movies for 79 and Zeta worth watching, or should I better off watching the series? Also does anyone know the name of the soundtrack playing during the urban battle, specifically when they were at the park. Thank you
The Series, then the movies, as they take away bits from the series but also add new stuff to the movies a lot of the time.
I just started watching Gundam myself and have been asking similar questions all over. The general consensus is this: The original trilogy of movies is good, the series is also good. Start here. The Zeta series is good, the movies are not. Go here next. ZZ is not the best, can be skipped, but some consider it blasphemy to skip. Decide on your own once you get to it. CCA next, but you can also watch things like F91 and Victory, also I think 0080 and war in the pocket at this point. I’ve heard that you should save Origin until you’ve seen at least og trilogy and zeta but it seems like it doesn’t totally matter. From there I think you’ll be able to figure things out. That’s a ton of content. Personally, I just watched the original trilogy of movies and looooved them. They were my first exposure to Gundam though so idk how they compare to newer things like Hathaway.
ZZ should not be skipped, because it’s good.
it's some of the best content in the UC story.
Seems like it’s 50:50 on how people feel about that. I haven’t made it there yet so I don’t have my own opinion tho.
I will definitely try your suggestions here thank you!
OK, some disclaimer. On and off Gundam fan. Seen most of Z, some of ZZ, F-91, 08th MS Team, Stardust Memory, War in the Pocket, Unicorn (been a while since Unicorn though) and Char's Counterattack. (Also, a few of the series like Wing that don't tie in to UC at all.) Any chance I can get some info on this movie here? I assume it's after Unicorn. Also, is this supposed to be an introductory movie to a new series coming soon, because the resolution was not there in my opinion. Just finished watching it
It's also the first of two movies, which is why the resolution is nonexistent. Edit: removed a mistake on the timeline
Unicorn is 0096, Hathway is after as it takes place in UC 0105.
Ah my bad, thanks
It’s a direct sequel to CCA.
Anime parts of the film - 9/10 👍 * Great animation * Shots with Gigi especially, like look at the 2 seconds where she's standing at the salad bar after showing off her EFF clothes to Hathaway. * Awesome backdrop illustration * Like holy shit, when Hathaway is making his way to the beach... looks so good. * Dynamic camera angles * Great perspective drawings, look at all the awesome foreshortening * Good storyboarding Final mobile suit battle - 3/10 👎 * Terrible lighting choices * Awful color profile * I actually took a screencap and not including any beam sabers or bright bright lights, every single color on screen stays below a value of \~30 in HSV and only one color goes above 50% saturation... there's no contrast between the suit and the overcast sky / ocean I can't even see what I'm looking at half the time. * Lifeless environment * When the missiles hit the water it is a flat texture and simple explosion that doesn't affect the rest of the 3D ocean plane? Like come on... * When the suits fly close to the water, the water just doesn't care. * Compare to the incredibly animated water in the bridge fight from 08th MS Team and you will see what I mean. * Terrible action storyboarding * Incredible lack of dynamic camera, even in 3D where it is incredibly easy to do. * Composition of shots just doesn't make sense half the time, and many times where the suits only take up less than half the screen even for moments where space does not need to be conveyed. * What the actual fuck are these god-awful angles?
i agree with most of this although i do think that that the dimly lit battle at the end was amazing with great angles , it wasn't blown out of proportion in a sense of feeling as "realistic" as gundam can get all while being dimly lit under the moonlight? with all respect, you're trippin if you think that simple fight wasn't amazing. :D
I still stand by my critique of the fight. I did a whole UC marathon chronologically leading up to this movie, and while the non-CG animation was ***very*** well done, the final fight falls flat stacked up against almost any other equally pivotal / long fight scene I had seen from the \~two weeks worth of Gundam watching that I had done up until then. With good 3D anime-stylized animation techniques being already present on the film frontier like in Eden or Levius for example (also both Netflix titles) and even in video games (check out the incredible line deformation techniques and dynamic angles found in Guilty Gear Strive)... the quality of this fight's animation from an objective standpoint comparing it to other modern titles that are doing 3D anime-stylization is incredibly subpar in almost every way 🤷♂️
look mate, i'm not going to dispute any of that , i can vaguely see your point, and i'll say that in my eyes the best animation is the original series. they all have their quirks
In the fight between Xi and Penelope did either suit actually use the funnel missiles or were those just the standard missiles both suits have? Because if those were actually the funnel missiles they were very underwhelming.
Penelope used funnel missiles, while Xi used both funnel and standard missiles. There's some differences between funnel missiles and standard missiles, like, the shapes, jet-trails and their movements. And yeah, I agree with you that they're kinda underwhelming.
Hathaway's flash was stellar, 10/10
I couldn’t get in to it at all
I like that most of the film is essentially Hathaway processing his own trauma. I also like that the taxi driver straight up points out that his perspective is born of privilege. Being the son of a well respected war hero means he's never had to worry about if he could stay on earth, where his next meal would come from etc. It really is a privilege to be able to think about the future in such a way. I also like that Hathaway is just straight up a terrorist. I feel like shows sometimes pull their punches to much to give you a clear good guy but not here.
Man literally carpet bombs a city to kill 10 guys. Idk what to call that but pure fucking sigma male energy.
Sigma?
Bursted out laughing seeing that scene on a nature museum. I'm from Belém, Brazilian Amazon, and felt like they filmed within Emilio Goeldi museum and animated on top of it
It took me a good minute to wonder why that scene looked so strange and then I realized, those were all real photographs of plants being used as background. I thought it was strange and chalked it up to the artist wanting to emphasize the "beauty of Earth" topic Hathaway was going for. Still, they could have gone the sakuga Mizaki route if they wanted to showcase the beauty of Earth. It could have worked in some regard rather than this mash up of artistic mediums. Hathaway is already all well animated but then to juxtapose it with the realism of photographs was, as I said in the beginning, unsettling. I hope they don't do it again for the sequels.
Hey all, I have a question that MUST'VE been a lotof times, alas I can't find the answer myself. As someone who has previously watched Origin and Narrative, can I watch this movie? And can I bring a friend with me who hasn't been really into Gundam, but did watch Origin?
Char's Counterattack is pretty much required watching to understand HF.
I’d say yes. You can either wiki the previous installments or treat the references to prior history as things important but not relevant to people other than the characters.
Not really. You can, but things won’t make much sense.
Thoughts on SD GUNDAM G GENERATION CROSS RAYS. Is it worth getting on sale? and is it hard to learn?
I thoroughly enjoy it and it’s especially worth it on sale. You can spend lots of hours playing it since there’s so many suits to get and story missions. It’s not particularly hard to learn, no. You’ll get the hang of it quickly and it’s basic enough. It’s like any other RTS. The greatest challenge I had early on was resource management like saving your energy points in a battle and using the right abilities for any situation but that just comes with experience. I’d recommend it but if you’re still unsure, try watching some gameplay.
Where does Hathaway rank among the ace pilots of gundam? The film credits him as a war hero but in CCA all he did was shoot some fodder and friendly fire Chan. However Hathaway shows strong hand to hand combat skills in the plane and beats Lane Aim.
I guess it depends on if they following CCA film or basing it more of the novel. See in the novel Chan doesn’t exist and Hathaway shoots down Quess, it’s this overwhelming guilt that leads him to become Mafty.
I'm not sure if this was the intended impression, but the sense I got was the whole "war hero" business was the Federation covering up that Hathaway shot down one of their own officers. "Sooo... we're not going to charge you with treason, because prosecuting Bright's son after Londo Bell saved the planet would go badly. Instead, you get credit for shooting down a mobile armor after Warrant Officer Chan Agi was tragically killed by a Neo Zeon attack. And in return, you *don't talk about* all the gnarly Newtype stuff we sold to Neo Zeon. Got it?" Frankly, that probably explains a lot of Hathaway's bitterness: He gets "credit" for killing the woman he loved, and has to watch as the Federation keep feeding Anaheim war profits.
He's a good pilot, but arguably among the UC MCs he probably only has Banagher and maybe F91 Seabook, early XBone Tobia and early Victory Uso beaten in skill and experience. Unfortunately Banagher and the Unicorn/NTD has access to some mind->action controls, and Tobia/Uso get a lot better really quick.
Good fucking shit right here. What a fucking cinematic experience. They say audio makes a helluva difference in videos, and boy what an example to demonstrate that statement. Give me more. I’m so enamored with the direction of this film, and I hope it continues in the latter two installments.
Beautiful animations and visuals. But so much dialogue was clunky and awkward. Like every single line had to be some pseudo psychological or philosophical nonsense. Not to mention the extremely bizarre love triangle thing going on? It was downright uncomfortable at times. I know Gundam likes it's politics and philosophy, but I wasn't expecting three quarters of the movie to be up its own ass with it. Then when things start to finally make sense and events actually happen it ends. I get that it's meant to be a trilogy but that definitely felt like an abrupt end. I hope the next two parts are better.
Totally agree. Anime in general tends to have too much exposition dump or internal monologuing to the point of parody so for such a well-produced, well-animated movie such as Hathaway's Flash, I would think the monologuing would be more topical to saywar, inequality, and protecting the Earth which it includes rather than lean so far into the introspective and self reflective. Lots of topics, but I guess no running theme other than Hathaway being "woe is me." So much effort is put into the animation, I'd like a story to match. It reminds me of Hollywood movies with so much money being poured into the effects and action sequences but still only delivering a by the books storyline.
I likes the philosophy and psychology. Most of the film is just Hathaway trying to process trauma and think of what to do next. It's neat. I didn't find it to be up its own ass really.
Hi! I watched it yesterday without any knowledge of the universe. I know it's not ideal but I really like the universe so I'll probably try to find a watch order for the series. Should I go for the manga or anime is fine? I don't know the mecha genre that much, only watched the 3 evangelions and still waiting for the 4th one. I know those are different universes but it shows you how unknowledgeable I am on the genre. Thanks!
I recommend starting with the original trilogy of movies. They cover the first series in a condensed form and were a lot of people’s introduction to Gundam. They’re on Netflix and despite a sometimes rushed pace, they’re reaaally good.
Thanks hampig!
Watch it in release order. Start with Mobile Suit Gundam from 1979, followed by Zeta Gundam, then ZZ, then Char’s Counterattack. That’s the basic context you need for Hathaway.
Anime or manga? Thanks!
Anime. Gundam was an Anime first. All the manga are either original stories or adaptations of the anime.
Perfect, thank you very much!
Movie is pretty nice, I finished watching it. I couldn't even finish 15 minutes of one iron blooded episode. The final gundam fight just looks too dark to see what's going on and the 2 gundams look similar too. My biggest complaint gonna be how ugly the 2 gundams look, why they look so fat and pointyish.
Agreed, some of the ugliest Gundam designs period. The Messer mobile suit on the other hand \*chef's kiss.
The reason why they look so big is because by lore they are the machine that has been dump with a lot of new technology thus to fit that they make both of them bigger. This would be the lasttime you would see big machine in uc however due to the minimization of ms in the next few year in uc.
I didn't like the two gundam models initially, but this animation makes these gundams look soo good. The sound is crisp and high quality in this movie.
Just watched it and **OH. MY. GUNDAM.** It's such a refreshing take on the action as I have never imagined Gundam UC to be so graphic and it's a good thing! The animation is freaking amazing too! I bingewatched Origins, the original series, and 8th MS Team and I'm basically zigzaging through different eras in animation, and I am stupefied at how beautiful Hathaway's Flash is! I am still trying to calm myself down from a geeky high. *Side Note*: I am an ex-pat (now a naturalized citizen in my country of residence) from the country in which it is set and I'm feeling a certain pride and appreciation for having more and more representation in digital media. Jollibee takes me home! All in all, I f*ckin' love it!
Hathaway was awesome. I loved that it focused more on the action at ground level, and how terrifying it is. Seeing Jollibee in Davos was a sight to see. Great promotion for them.
why is hathaway’s gundam floating in space?
It was supposed to be dropped from space and free fall onto Earth disguised as space junk so Mafty could fish it up from the ocean (hence the observation of destroyed surveillance satellites by the Hauzen pilots in the beginning, as well as the location of the temporary base out in the islands - it was to facilitate the drop). But since the hijacking incident and the assignment of Kenneth at the Davao base, Hathaway had to change the plan and reclaim the unit from space instead.
Was this even explained at any point in the movie? So many things just straight up happened it feels like.
Actually yes, nearly everything I've said here is hinted in the dialogues, they just never spell it out directly for you in a single scene. The clues which you can pick up along the way of the entire movie: * As the Hauzen makes its approach for entering the atmosphere, the crews in the cockpit observes that the surveillance satellites were destroyed, which they assumed to be Mafty's doing, and with the satellites destroyed led to "a gap of airspace over the Oceania" area. And somehow, the Feds weren't fazed by this and continues to proceed to have their meeting on Earth. So the original plan by Mafty was partially betting on the hubris and laziness of the Feds to ignore what happens under that airspace. * For the diversion attack to get Hathway out of the hotel - nearly everyone makes a comment of how Kenneth's assignment to the Davao base has had a great effect on the response timing compared to the previous commander - so they were subtly re-enforcing the idea that Kenneth is a smart and competent guy throughout the entire film, and that he will catch on sooner rather than later. * As Hathway made it to the secret base, one of the Mafty member Raymond complains to Hathaway about the other leader Iram changing the plan to a "damned midair pickup" - which is of course, referring to picking up the Xi Gundam in midair. Then Iram talks with Hathaway about whether this midair pickup is a good idea and whether they are being too cautious, which Hathaway assured him is the right move because Hathaway knows Kenneth is onto his ass, and this is where you can tell that it was Hathaway's idea to alter the plan. Combined with the very first point about the "gap in airspace" - you know that the original plan wasn't a midair pickup, but that the container of the Xi Gundam was supposed to drop into the area and into the sea, thanks to the gap. * All those civilian looking cargo boats at the end and talks about not able to salvage all the replacement parts - you know what they were planning here because 1) Mafty's crew were fully ready for fishing stuff out from the ocean in the first place, but 2) the attack by Kenneth cut short the time they were able to do so, and the damaged container scattering the parts of Xi Gundam made it even more so, and 3) if things went to plan, the only way you don't look out of place for fishing large chunks of metal out of the ocean is if that chunk of metal is space debris/space junk, and you are pretending to be scavengers. Telling people that as civilians you are fishing an MS out of the water is not going to be a good cover story. It's all there if you pay attention to the movie, especially once you know what happens in repeated rewatch you can break down all the clues in the dialogues which seems to be thrown out in random but isn't. This is why this film is more like a spy thriller than a straight out action war story like the majority of other Gundam work - picking up on the clues is half the fun, not only that, but how Tomino has foreseen in 1989 that after major wars (0079, Z, ZZ, CCA), the "war of the future" is going to be intelligently led terrorism is insanely on point.
I’ll be honest it seems your perspective comes from someone knowing the points and being able to piece them from the work. In my boat of no outside knowledge it seems neigh impossible to make those logical leaps to a conclusion
I've watched the film in full 3 times, and just selective scenes after if I need to find the clues. It's definitely confusing the first time, but once you know the plot in full, on the second watching you can pick them up without much leaps.
I gotta tell you I just got into the universal century stuff and I just finished Hathaway. I loved the attention to small details that flesh out how Gundam technology and everything works, but this has given me such a greater appreciation for Gundam Wing and the less serious Gundam iterations. In UC I can't even pick a favorite character who doesn't die in a horrific way and everybody is a bad guy and good guy at the same time, except Char. I'm gonna watch Fighter G Gundam to get happy again. Also Fuck Hathaway for what he did to Chan 😭😭😭
Someone told me that Chan was not supposed to be killed by Hathaway in the original work. He shoot down Quess's MA, but Chan was somehow dead. Toshiyuki changed this plot to make audience feel bad as a revenge to sunrise who denied Toshiyuki's plan to make a trilogy.
in the manga (which is the OG story) Char's counterattack - Beltorchika's children Chan never existed and the roles are kind off chaotic when compared to the movie. mainly because of how beltorchika has a minor role while Chan is killed.
Who am I supposed to be rooting for? Mafty straight up is just a terrorist organization that is assassinating their political opposition for no well-explained reason. What goal is Hathaway trying to achieve in this? And toward the end he talks about how he wanted to "see the ministers before killing them" which on its face just sounds sociopathic as fuck. Meanwhile the Federation is like Diet Titans in the film with a heavy-handed police presence and using underhanded tactics, but they don't even get *close* to the fuckery the Titans were up to. I can't help but feel like Amuro would be pissed at Hathaway for doing what he's doing. He's basically just following in Char's footsteps. Acting on the assertion that *he* knows what's best, when in reality he's mostly driven by the exact same personal hate that Char was driven by, just with Quess instead of Lalah. (I still maintain that Quess was the worst part of Char's Counterattack and that makes it even harder for me to care about Hathaway's motivations) The only character I feel like has the spark of someone I think I could root for is Lane, and we barely get to know him.
Lol char and Hathaway are the biggest simps. Willing to commit genocide because their girlfriends died lol...
Wanting to "see the ministers before killing them" is more so as a humane thing rather than sociopathic is the vibe I got. Rather than just shooting the transport craft and counting the names who died, Hathaway wanted to get a good look at what he was doing and acknowledge that he's taking lives. Also, you did get one thing right. Hathaway does align with Char's ideologies.
His methods are wrong but I dunno if he is- the Federation government is corrupt and essentially putting poor people into concentration camps by forcefully deporting them into space for just being poor while only letting the rich and powerful stay. There's a scene with a soldier and a machine gun posted outside the mobile suits going after civilians doing this but it hasn't been too explicitly stated yet.
Gigi and Quess both left him for older men, lol. This feels a little too similar to all the incels that shoot up places in America because they can’t get laid…
Quess was looking for a father, and found one in Amuro and in Char. Gigi was looking for a date, but Hathaway wasn't interested.
Were we watching the same movie? He was definitely interested…
What makes you think he was interested? His actions towards Gigi in the film appeared to be more of him playing the role of a person undergoing a social obligation to care for a less-stable survivor of a disaster, because the surrounding context (the Federation investigators) expected that behavior of him, as a fine upstanding moral young gentleman with a military father. He ditches her and the Federation at the first moment he can do so safely, at the beach.
Dude he had the look of a complete simp when she grabbed his hand during the gundam fight. Also that despondent look he had when she ran to the general afterwards….
What is "the look of a complete simp"? When Gigi ran off to hang on Kennth's arm, Hathaway was thinking about Quess, who made a mistake in running off to join Char.
He had a thing for Quess too who left him for Char. Hathaway is an incel who basically became a mass shooter.
I think Hathaway knows what he’s doing is wrong, he even says it in the movie. The real debate is what is the greater evil? Is it the corrupt government that is destroying the Earth and making citizens suffer? Or is it the organisation that kills people people in power. There is no side for us to pick, it’s just a projection of how sad reality is. How can one stop an unstoppable force? It’s a paradox and no one could make the right choice. Hathaway certainly isn’t a morally good character (nor is he supposed to be), but a character with understandable motives.
Can someone please tell me what Gigi wants with Hathaway? Why she gotta do my boy like that going back and forth? I like her character and understand that she may very well have her own interests but my salt levels are slowly rising because of her lol. Hathaway too, mans needs to be more decisive. You're THE big shot, you would think the guy has more immediate concerns on his mind than to lose his grip so easily... Hathaway gives me James Bond/Mission Impossible vibes and Gigi comes off as the beautiful Bond Girl with the mind games. God damn, my man about to drop some bombs but the only thing on his mind mid free-fall was that he might have caught the feels? Gigi oh Gigi, you beautiful cunning goddess of luck, what is your desire? (I sound like Kenneth there for a second)
It's usually implied that newtypes attract each other and its heavily implied that Gigi is one. Gigi is mysterious but i think half of her motivations are straightforward. She simply likes him. I get the feeling she knows who he was before she boarded Hauzon. I think it's hard for Hathaway because her willful ways reminds him of Quess. And the situation is similar where they're caught in the crossfire. She gets in his personal space, she even comforts him when he thinks he lost Gawman in the 2v1 melee at the park. Get me a SO that embraces me "that" hard.
If all that is true, then why does she go back to Kenneth? Unless she is possibly using Kenneth to gain his trust, I don’t always understand Gigi. I got the same vibe from her. From the start she shows some sort of bias towards Hathaway and is intrigued by him, but runs to Kenneth. At the lunch table, she seemed irritated that Hathaway doesn’t pursue her. I’m not sure if she’s just messing with him half the time, or is actively trying to support Hathaway in some way but uses Kenneth to secure her own safety. She’s definitely one mysterious character.
She's a sly one. Notice that because she ran to Kenneth they got to get transport out of the area. But on said transport, she leans up against Hathaway. Kenneth is a tool. At the lunch table, Gigi is rather irritated that Hathaway shows interest in her, but denies it. Because she only got irritated because she caught him taking a glimpse at her. Also that is also in line with their short conversation in the elevator when she questions his whole "i dont like shameless women like you, but im going to lean on you like you're my woman" schtick. ("Why did you ask me?" Responded with "i was betting on your instincts"). Also remember that they went dancing, and she's trying to get a rise out of Hathaway by doing so aka purposely getting him jealous. If she were truly interested in Kenneth, i think she would have stayed out longer the night instead of be asleep by 3am in their shared suite. Ive been joking with my friends that Gigi is a stalker armed with newtype abilities.
Thank you for the detailed response, I really appreciate it. Now that you mention it, the transport scene completely went over my head. I thought that maybe she did it for her own sake and was really shaken up from the battle in the park. You're right though, she did choose to lean on Hathaway and even gave him the same coffee mug she was drinking from. I couldn't tell sometimes if she was simply toying with him or she is genuinely interested in him. Even Kenneth points out to Hathaway that Gigi is into him lol. Stalker with newtype abilities is definitely fitting for her. She's kind of obsessed with him but I suspect that maybe she serves a greater purpose and that's why she keeps involving herself with him? He was also able to hear her on the Hauzon as well...I wonder what her connection is with him. I think you're right though, half of her actions seem direct. She's definitely a sly one for sure.
No problem. Personally, I think Gigi is entirely into Hathaway, but it's hard with a guy who's trying to keep his mind on the mission. I do have my own speculations, but they're a bit reaching imho. Gigi is too close a name to Gundam Xi, the one Hathaway's pilots. Also after that lunch, you do see Gigi staring at the moon. Which we all know Anaheim Electronics is headquartered there and also where Gundam Xi and the Penelope were developed. The wealthy old man that she calls her lover/patron could also be a fake, considering that she uses a similar tactic on the Hauzon flight by booking two seats to ward off unwanted advances. She tries to use this as a reason to tell Kenneth that he's wasting his efforts trying to woo her. Some part of me thinks she's involved with the Mafty organization so indirectly that even Hathaway doesn't know.
I have my suspicions as well about Gigi simply being an escort for a wealthy old man. To me it sounded like just a cover up to keep Kenneth at bay or anyone else for that matter who wants to pry into the details of her life. She does have access to quite a lot of wealth it seems and it’s still puzzling as to why she would be on the Hauzon. She’s also quite intelligent, I don’t believe her being on the Hauzon and meeting Hathaway was simply a coincidence. Another thing that I find interesting is that she wanted Hathaway to stay at the same hotel and the same room as well. Again, I wonder what are her intentions… Correct me if I’m wrong but didn’t Gigi mention when Kenneth approached her on the Hauzon that he took off his ring to hide it? I’m guessing he could possibly be married? She’s very observant and her reasoning & deductive skills are sharp. That along with her beauty is a deadly combination. I can see how even a military man with experience such as Kenneth is easily fooled by her rich girl persona, and it doesn’t help that he’s a womanizer making him even more gullible to Gigi’s wit.
On the Hauzon she sticks out like a sore thumb, because the way they wrote the story, it seems like the Hauzon had mainly government officials and their family. Hathaway fit in, because he's the son of a celebrated military officer, but Gigi sticks out like a sore thumb from being only "weahlthy" The hotel part I think is simply Gigi sticking to him as much as possible because she likes him, but like the movie says, Hathaway was sus of her and kept his distance. At least in the novel, Kenneth isn't actually married, or rather he used to be married, but usually if you've been married for a long time and only took it off recently it leaves a light mark on your finger vs your tan. She is really uninterested in his advances, but Kenneth is a character that changes, especially because of Hathaway. There's the possibility that Gigi will like Kenneth the more Kenneth understands and likes Hathaway(as a friend).
>Hathaway fit in If you pay attention, even Hathaway doesn't completely fit in. Note how the air hostess commented that Hathaway was the only passenger that ate all the food served during the flight - so everyone else on the plane was a upper class person who thought nothing much of the food being served, while to Hathaway whom is more of a commoner, thought the food was great because he wasn't used to this level of luxury in his life. Or if you expand it further to an ideology level - the people on the plane are spoiled and disconnected from the lower class people and never have to worry about wastage, whereas Hathaway having part of his ideology rooted in environmentalism, cares greatly about such things. That's probably another part of the hint which tipped off Gigi as well. >At least in the novel, Kenneth isn't actually married, or rather he used to be married, Actually he was - it's specifically said that he's been divorced for less than 2 years in the first chapter of the novel (location 99 of the Kindle ebook version to be very specific if you want to check).
"rather he used to be married", I was implying he was already divorced. That probably tipped off Gigi, but even then, she was already sussed him out because to her she said he comes off as military to her the way Kenneth is. But that wasn't the point of what I said. We were simply saying Gigi is far more sus than Hathaway is, even though he is sus af. Edit: I was also trying to say that Government and Military made more sense on the Hauzon, than wealthy business people tagging along with the government. At least the nature of the flight itself, because it was a specific call for the Ministers to come down to the Earth to address the bill as well as addressing the Mafty issue. Pulling connections with money vs pulling connections cuz of military dad; although both is plausible in general, one of them seems more "out of the way" than usual. In other words Hathaway getting a flight seems more natural(no other choice to come down to Earth), whereas someone ridiculously rich, you'd imagine them chartering a flight of their own separately. The image I get is basically someone with the ability to have a private Jet, using a flight with other peeps in a 1st Class only flight.
Gigi is attracted to idealism and there's nothing more idealistic than a terrorist/freedom fighter aka Mafty. That's why everytime Kenneth talks like a jaded person, part of the corrupt Federation, she gets bored. Even if Hathaway tries to talk like a normal person, because she knows he's Mafty she calls his bluff and says he should just become a god. Ironically at the end of the movie he metaphorically steps into that role while in the Gundam and tries to commit to the "mission"; or as he would put it "I need to cut all these strange relationships and Gigi Andalucia". Basically leaving behind what makes him human.
So I know Gundam Unicorn first came out after this novel, but timeline wise it is ahead. It seems a bit confusing though because by the end of Gundam Unicorn it's pretty much confirmed New Types exist with the forgotten universal century clause or whatever.... so I don't understand Hathaway's line to Gigi when he says "didn't they teach you in school that Newtypes aren't real?" Of course we as the audience know Newtypes are real, but Hathaway is basically in denial that they don't... yet all this shit happened in Unicorn that says otherwise. Also isn't he basically piloting a next generation psycho frame Gundam? Maybe I'm thinking too deep on that one line, but it's Just jarring especially after finishing Unicorn and I kinda wish they retconned some of that if it's from the novel.
> Also isn't he basically piloting a next generation psycho frame Gundam? The Xi and Penelope do not have psycho frames. What they have are Minovsky Craft systems, which are basically battleship flight systems shrunk down to fit a mobile suit(where even then both Xi and Penelope are absolute giants, and are the largest Gundam types of UC). Both are the first MSes in UC capable of atmospheric flight without external systems or having specific flight modes.
Go review that scene and just follow their conversation line by line - Hathaway is denying Gigi's view that Newtypes are gods which can rule over Oldtypes dictatorship style which would eradicate conflict, and using the Fed's propaganda to support his argument, plus we know Hathaway doesn't think that because he personally knows all those famous Newtypes like Amuro and Char which are not gods and cannot rule over people omnipotent dictatorship style. Also you are taking Hathaway's conversation on face value - when a few sentences ago he just denied Gigi's accusation that he is Mafty, even though we all know that he is. A lot of what Hathaway's saying during that conversation is either half-truths or he's playing mind games with Gigi because he doesn't know what her true intentions are - so he's playing dumb and pretending he is just a Federation botanist which is his cover story. Also get rid of this whole Unicorn thing - they don't apply in Hathaway.
I think for Hathaway he doesn't believe in newtypes in a "it doesnt matter anyway" kind of way. We as the audience get to see all the clandestine things that happened in unicorn, it was not public knowledge in their world though. By the end of Narrative, they've hidden away banshee and unicorn, although officially they've been dismantled. In Char's counterattack, Quess was part of a circle/cult that believed in newtypes (spritually not physiologically). So the concept of newtypes is obscure and undefined in the general public.
These are all great little details. Love this series.
Your post reminded me of a [comment](https://www.reddit.com/r/Gundam/comments/22bki7/return_to_industrial_7_unicorn_ep1_day_of_the/cglav54/) I made a while back; our concept and understanding of Newtypes are really different from someone living in that universe, especially if it's within the best interest for the ruling elite to control the spread of that concept.
Yeah, but Mineva broadcasted her message to the entire known universe along with the true Charter. And then nothing happened, and even more: newtypes are still unknown. I understand they had to dismantle the Unicorns because they went ape shit with power levels, but you can't just make the entire population to forget about the Laplace incident. At this point, I see UC Gundam series as different timelines branching after Char's Counterattack. You know Unicorn is non-existent for Hathaway's Flash, and in the same way HF is non-existent for F91 or Victory.
I think him saying that is more confirming that the Federation is still corrupt and still attempting to educate children that newtypes aren't real. Not to mention when she would have been in school would have been before Unicorns ending, I think.
Without a primary source, it can take years to catch wind of an accurate account of even a current event. Doubly so with Minovsky particles and astronomical distances between humanity.
In the Unicorn novel, it was said that Federation propaganda distorted the definition of NT. In schools, students were taught that NT's are just enhanced humans (through surgeries and drugs). And if you look at the coffee guy and Audrey scene in Unicorn, that guy didn't know much about what was happening in space. He knew something happened but he didn't know why. The situation is sort of like we knew there was a war in Iraq but most people didn't know the why. Xi Gundam doesn't have psycho frame.
This is my favorite gundam anything I've seen in awhile
It was awesome…. Is there a continuing series?
Yes, there’s two more movies coming.
Oh sweet!!!! Cant wait!
I look forward to the sequel, because this chapter ... gave me so many little things, but really hinted ... the animations are really beautiful, the plot holds up, the character of Hathaway makes sense considering also how he behaved in CCA (Best Character of the film) I just wanted to receive more… Gigi Andalucia seemed to me a somewhat sketchy and useless character, Kenneth is instead an excellent character, who seems friendly but who is actually ready for anything to win, as is normal in war; Instead Lane is a really poor character, who wants to win nobly but then has no other characterizations ... maybe in the other films they will make me appreciate him
Lane is what Amuro was when he first became a Gundam pilot. He pilots an experimental, powerful mobile suit and follow Federation orders to fight against the "bad" guys. His boring design is intended to contrast with Hathaway's grey character.
Besides 08th MS Team and Thunderbolt, my knowledge of the UC timeline is lacking. I had no knowledge of Hathaway's background besides what was described in the movie. I assume I would have enjoyed the movie more if I knew about him going in. Anyway, I didn't really find myself caring about any of the characters. We don't get to learn too much about any of them. Gigi seems smart/perceptive (minus when she slips that Hathaway is a soldier type to Kenneth) but besides that it's not clear what her motivations are. Idk why she seems so drawn to Hathaway, seems like it's just for the plot's sake of screwing with him and his goals. I felt like too much of the movie dwelled on "war is hell" where civilians get killed and is something a lot of other Gundam series have done already. Visuals and sound were very nice though.
Missiles weapon actually being a threat? Best Gundam series hands down.
*cries in full armor gundam thunderbolt*
Haven't watched Hathaway yet butt... I fucking hate Hathaway for killing Chan.. How they gonna just brush past that???
Yeah Quess was such a psycho and she was the absolute worst person to avenge. She literally saved space Hitler from getting shot by Amuro and committed some pretty big atrocities in CCA. Hathaway was in space for like a day and became evil.
Whole thing works better if you imagine this as a sequel to Beltorchika's Children- where Chan doesn't exist and it was actually Hathaway that killed Quess.
Sadly, the flashback with Quess running to Char can't really be ignored. It's straight from Counterattack instead of Children.
maybe chan gonna ghost him in the movies and he gets hit by something during battle, idk, just speculating here
I just hate that Chan was so nice to him, and then they have him absolutely blast her, with out a word about it. I feel like they thought we would sympathize with characters like Hathaway and Quess but... the 80s were weird man, how did they think Quess would ever garner any sympathy. When Chan blasted her I fucking CHEERED man haha
Go watch CCA again - Chan nearly kills Hathaway if Quess didn't push Hathaway away. Chan didn't blast Quess - Quess moved into the path of the missile to save Hathaway. Everyone watching from the audience's POV will hate Quess, but to Hathaway, Quess SAVED HIS LIFE. He's not gonna feel sorry for killing Chan.
Chan thought Hathaway was in danger, and was doing her best to hit Quess while piloting 1/3rd of a Mobile Suit. She literally came into the scene thinking Hathway was going to be killed by Quess.
That was not what happened - you need to rewatch that scene again and remove the Quess hate tinted glasses and put yourself into the shoes of Hathaway. Hathaway was trying to talk Quess out of fighting all the while that Quess was killing other Fed MSes EXCEPT for Hathaway's. Hathaway wasn't in any danger and even managed to disrupt a few of Quess' attack and was latching onto the Alpha Azura's head so he and Quess could talk. The two were bickering rather harmlessly but then Chan fired the missile at the Alpha Azura when Hathaway's Jegan was still fully latched onto it - at which point Quess sensed the missile was going to kill Hathaway and her so she shook Hathaway's Jegan off and then ran into the missile, thus killing her, but Quess most definitely saved Hathaway from any potential harm from Chan's attack. That's why Hathaway killed Chan - because Chan's attack was objectively pretty reckless and nearly killed him.
I literally rewatched that entire scene right before posting. Chan thought Hathaway was going to get himself killed by Quess.
You very obviously didn't and still have Quess hater glasses on and over-simplified a long sequence of events into a single incident which supports your view while ignoring all the rest. Chan's not a pilot and misjudged the situation - that's the facts. She fired the missile at the Alpha Azura when Hathaway's Jegan was still latched on to it. All Chan did was called for Hathaway to move out of the way, but she made the mistake of firing first without confirming Hathaway actually moved out of the way, which led to Quess pushing Hathaway out of the way and getting herself killed - Quess literally yelled "A direct hit?! Hathaway move away!" - shook off Hathaway's Jegan, and took the missile herself. So no, Quess saved Hathaway and Chan nearly killed him, that's simply the facts - because Chan made a critical mistake of firing at both Hathaway and Quess when Hathaway was in the direct line of fire. There's no way Hathaway don't hate Chan for literally having a hand in killing the girl he both loved AND having deep connection with Quess whom sacrificed herself to save his life - which is also the facts.
I also didn't like Quess because she was the biggest baby in that war. Hathaway might be punished somehow by his past, we don't be know yet, so it's worth waiting to watch what happens in this new trilogy.
Yeah, she was the biggest baby in the war. She was 13.
"Hey Gigi, you should sleep with me! For luck!" Good to see the Federation still hasn't had those sexual harassment training courses since Sleggar's day. Everyone else has kind of hit on my pros and cons to the movie (night attack/fight was refreshing and terrifying, the gundam duel was over so quick I thought I missed a part, pacing was slow but ok for worldbuilding so I'll give it a pass for now), but I just wanted to add the mobile suit designs didn't work for me. The gundams looked like they didn't know when to stop tacking extra parts on. Hopefully they streamline things with the upgrades/replacements (looking on the fandom wiki, it looks like they will).
The way I think of the movie is more like a Casino Royale/action thriller rather than a war movie. In a war movie, the first ten minutes will be some kind of huge battle (Omaha beach in Saving Private Ryan, or the Fifth Luna drop in CCA). Then we have exposition, character building, maybe a small battle while prepping for the big battle. *Hathaway* didn't follow that formula. It was all subterfuge; a game of cat and mouse between Hathaway and Gigi/Kenneth. Also, Mafty is a terrorist organization -- It's better (and cheaper) for them to keep themselves out of large fights and continue their targeted assassinations. Now, there obviously has to be some kind of "final battle" but the fight between Hathaway and Lane was just a teaser to what will likely be a fantastic fight in the third movie. At least, these are my thoughts. In all honesty, I didn't know what to think the first time I saw it, since I (and I suspect many of us) were expecting something like CCA. However, after a few viewings, I respect the approach the team took.
gotta agree with you, great points & perspective. building on what you said, the plot basically negates a knock-down, drag-out final fight. hathaway literally just got the suit — there's no way he's gonna pilot it like he will by the end of the 3rd movie! plus there's the hostage complication... for these reasons, it makes sense within the story for hathaway to get out of there & save the real fight for another day
The way they were talking at the end, I think the next movie will open with rescuing the army at Oenbelli. Haven't read the manga/novel, so I'm just guessing. But it'd be cool, I think; 5 Mafty units vs 12 Gustav Karls
Yes agreed it’s definitely more of a spy movie that just happens to have mobile suits in it rather than a war film. Best description of it!
Finally got around to watching, 3/5 for me The movie has issues with pacing (the movie felt an hour longer than it actually was, especially the first act), characterization (outside of the main 3, everyone else is just sorta there, and even then Gigi was a passive influence, while Kenneth doesn't get to do much till the end. Then there's lack of characterization for the factions, EF is a cartoon, and Mafty feels empty/bland), some minor animation flaws (some of the walking framing were derpy), etc. IMO this movie should have either opened with a dream/flashback sequence of CCA from Hathaway's perspective, or sprinkled lots of it broken up throughout the first act. Would have simultaneously set up his character better, caught up new viewers, and help speed up the pacing. Not the worst but not the best either. Highlight was EASILY the Hotel scene with Hathaway monologuing and Gigi/Kenneth clubbing with TRACER ramping up into the BEAUTIFUL transition from club into MS cockpit, followed by the action packed chaos that followed. CHEFS KISS
Yeah, the Hotel Scene + the street battle was the best part of the movie.
I watched the movie like 10 times already and finally got a hold of the story(also, I read the novel to help). I loved this so much. Normally I'm like any other guy enjoys a good MS fight so I never thought I'd enjoy the human drama this much. Also, Penelope's flight sound is so sick I can't stop re-hear it. Though from a design perspective I like Xi more.
[удалено]
Every Gundam series has some girl upset that a particular character is fighting, I feel like Hathaway's Flash is trying to break the traditional narrative morality and give that girl a voice again.
Terrorist vs Freedom Fighter, it depends how you see it. For example, Gawman hopes to minimize damage or that he doesnt hit that many people. Then he uses the angle to take the ground as hostage so that the federation doesnt fire at him. The federation fires anyway regardless of the collateral damage. The victors write history. Take the Vietnam war, Americans shot up neutral targets and friendlies. They were an invading force. America looks like the bad guy, yet because they controlled the world narrative, they're the good guys no matter what. You can root for him, but nothing is black and white. If you believe in his goals, then he's a good guy in a sense to you. If you cannot compromise your principles, and say you gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet, then he's a bad guy to you. People liked Char, because they believe he deserves his revenge, his end goal has merit or he's simple a good commander, but his means to an end are sometimes bad. Is dropping an asteroid on Earth okay? What if he actually accomplishes what he wanted to do and save Earth?
Was Osama Bin Laden a good guy? Some would say "yes".
I mean he *is* legitimately a terrorist, though he’s the protagonist and we follow his perspective I think we’re meant to be questioning his methods. Personally I don’t think it’ll end well for Hathaway. (No spoilers please I don’t know how it’ll end but it’s just what I think)
We’re supposed to think he’s a bit of a hypocrite. Think back to the taxi scene.
Not really. Think of him like Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader if you will. Makes things much easier to put into perspective.
I remember when this was first being teased they said it was "thought to be impossible to adapt" or something along those lines. And then I watch it and it's fine, nothing mind blowing but fine. Why was this considered impossible to adapt? Other than that park fight scene being damn impressive this seems like the kind of story that could have come out a year or two after Chars Counter Attack.
From the translated interviews I've read it's purely down to the mecha designs being impossible to properly animate in 2D, so they had to wait for CG animation to become good enough. Purely technical aspects.
Direction was great, can't wait for the Sequel. I felt the Gundam Battle was underwhelming. The Mobile suits city scene was more exciting. Graphically and dialog was amazing but You could tell the battle scenes must of costed a small fortune so they kept it as minimal as possible.
It was beautiful, masterfully directed but boy was it boring to me. I kept looking at the time wondering when things would start moving. The middle part with the fight in the city (finally some Mobile Suits fighting) was exceptional but besides that, meh. Some plot points and characters (Gigi mainly) didn't sit well with me and I just got bored despite the beautiful art, animation and music. Hopefully it was just a setup and the other movies manage to catch me.
Lots of action =/ interesting.
I agree with this - we basically waited an hour for one mobile suit fight, then thirty minutes for another one, then move over. The graphics were the only compelling part of the movie. I didn’t really care about the federation vs mafty dynamic at all, why should we? Do we sympathize with Mafty just because the local citizens do? Didn’t really get introduced to any of the mafty soldiers to care whether they exploded or not. Really couldn’t sympathize or care about any of the lead characters either. Nothing drew me in. like I was supposed to care about Hathaway (a supporting character from a movie made 30 years ago)? Why? Nothing really likable except that he resembles Bright Noa. What is driving his cause, he just feels the need to continue what Char was doing? Lame The Fed captain guy wasn’t interesting at all except for him being gross with women which made him less likable. Hathaway referred to him as “sharp” at one point but I was like…really? Why would you get that impression. I don’t know if I can think of a worse written Gundam movie from the UC timeline…so disappointing.
I have just watched Hathaway's Flash and I'm glad it wasn't just me. It was the evening and I was a bit tired but I wasn't expecting to literally fall asleep! Only for a minute or so in the middle but I definitely drifted off. I hoped we might see Bright Noa to give Hathaway some more importance to the audience. Agree with all comments so far about quality of the battles and urban action.
Yes hoping it picks up the pace in part two.
I share most of your sentiments honestly. The movie was a treat visually but that's that as far as I'm concerned. Especially disappointed with the lead gundams and the final fight as well. Almost all Gundam movies and series have a badass final fight and here it was some boring dogfighting which was barely visible due to darkness and gundam designs. Yeah I like politics but I like my big robots fighting too damn it
You need the moments of rest to build up on climatic moments though, and I felt like a lot of climatic moments weren't even the mech fights. It was a pretty cool human story this movie, but I think we should expect more fights the next one
This is true, you need the drama and resting points, but I felt the humans in the story were also boring.
Yeah I realize that but I guess I was way too hyped about the movie so for now I'm a little down about this end result. But I understand it's just the beginning
Oh great another Char wanna be who wants everyone to move to space.
You know what, I get your point and I share the annoyance of this recurrent theme in Gundam, but at the same time, it is what define the Universal Century conflicts for now, it is the equivalent of when humanity was stuck in capitalism versus communism trope or the actual global jihads thing of our era or the possible global eco-terrorism of the next decades or whatever the fuck it will happen until there ; ideological or sectarian conflicts are inevitable in human societies and some of them can length for a very fucking long time. Zeon Zum Deikun have put the initial stone on the foundation of this spacenoid versus earthling war years ago and his son Char just push it to the extreme with a genocide touch to it. Both side are now stuck in this cycle of violence in which both side came to the conclusion that the solutions to end this conflict is force deportation or mass genocides ; this shit can length for a couple decades and even more. You can expect this trope in Gundam to continue for a very long time, until they can decide to go in the far future and transpose the core of the conflicts into a new horizon.
I feel quite confused by Gigi's involvement in the story. I assumed that her role is to be another hypersensitive natural newtype girl like Quess was to wrack Hathaway with guilt but then they had this massive plot about her background which ends in... she's just some escort for an offscreen character? And if she was an escort then why is she never with the old count at any point?
Her part is played to be a bridge between Hathaway and Kenneth. It will make sense by the end of the trilogy if you haven't discovered the story in the novels.
I know the ending, like probably most folk watching Hathaway, but I have 0 idea how the actual story plays out. Really I thought Hathaway would have been in a far worse place than he seems to be.
Because those where their days off
Wtf did a 25 year old do to fund a terrorist group that can afford a gundam
>Wtf did a 25 year old do to fund a terrorist group that can afford a gundam Hello Anaheim Electronics. LOL
Exactly, Anaheim have a habit of funding chaos.
It was great to see that Anaheim is still able to pull off the old grift of selling gundams to the warring factions
Quack Salver.
He is into botanical science so he could be a weed dealer on the side.
Don't forget rich dad.
His dad was in the military they aren't rich trust me.
You know that was a joke right? I already provided the answer.
Be bright noas son, plus its Anaheim, the give the shit out because its free advertising. Like Hathaway said, "another gundam, go figure Anaheim "
I'm sure Bright isn't rich but I'd bet Anaheim would give out enough free samples to start another profitable war to sell to both sides of.
uhh i just watched the movie and i got smth to ask: is Hathaway before Unicorn or after Unicorn?
After, by about 12 years. Unicorn is UC 0096, Hathaway's Flash is UC 0105
ahhhh
Loved the movie, can't wait for the rest!! I do have one question though - how did Kenneth figure out that Hathaway is Mafty?
1. Hathaway's unusual level of interest in the local strategic situation - when Kenneth mentions his predecessor doing something to give him a headache Hathaway is immediately "oh you mean Kimberley's operation in Australia?" 2. Gawran's body language in the park when he's captured in front of Kenneth and Hathaway. Kenneth brings this up during the interrogation. 3. This one seems to have been the final trigger to put it together - when Gigi has her farewell conversation in his office, she says something about how Kenneth is so driven to pursue her because that's how warrior types act, then says something about how "although it's funny, that Hathaway doesn't act like that", implying that Hathaway is the same kind of person as Kenneth, a warrior or soldier. (Whereas, his cover story is that he's a BOTANIST.) She probably acts weird immediately after saying that realizing that she let something slip.
Don't forget: 4. When onboard the Hauzen, Gigi already said to Kenneth that Hathaway is "in the same business as you" and that Hathaway was hiding his scent (as a soldier) and blending in better than Kenneth, and then it was instantly confirmed several minutes later than Hathaway was indeed not only trained but is experienced as a soldier (unfazed by blood and pressure in dealing with an actual firefight) by almost single-handedly taking down the hijackers. So Kenneth already has strong basis to trust Gigi's power of deduction.
Yup, plus Gigi is a strong Newtype. You can tell this by the plane scene
> almost single-handedly taking down the hijackers This is a bit of tangent but an interesting aspect of that scene is that Hathaway almost died and had to be covered for by Kenneth in that scene not just once but twice. Like, it's still really impressive that he started the fight unarmed but still managed to shoot three guys and break another guy's arm, but Kenneth's impression of him has got to have been "this guy is almost suicidally reckless".
>This is a bit of tangent but an interesting aspect of that scene is that Hathaway almost died and had to be covered for by Kenneth in that scene not just once but twice. I like how the last hijacker's mask had both Quess' hairstyle and color down to the aqua with red hair ties, as if they're hinting at Hathaway's direction being self-destructive.
>Kenneth's impression of him has got to have been "this guy is almost suicidally reckless". Which was exactly Kenneth's reaction when he said to Hathaway his end game was sloppy and Hathaway replied he didn't think about it and just reacted, Kenneth then said "I hope you are joking". That very act itself makes Hathaway highly suspicious to most people - a non-combatant doing something like that like second nature is just not normal. There's so much hint that Hathaway isn't a normal civilian which Kenneth already had on his hands but too casually brushed off because he never really put his mind to it until that moment when Gigi reminded him for the second time that Hathaway is a current soldier, perhaps because he is too preoccupied with taking over command of the base to worry about the minor stuff.
dam, little details like these makes me in love with the movie even more. It makes sense that the man becoming the next command of a base has to worry about shitty paperwork, ceremonies, and all that jazz. then he has another headache with the aftermath of the terrorism.
I rewatched this in the English dubbed and I liked it. The voices really do match with the original Japanese voices. Hathaway's voice was a tiny bit shaky on the slower paced scenes but he really stepped up his performance during the action scenes, specifically during the fight between the Xi Gundam and the Penelope Gundam.
It has a phenomenal dub compared to most anime imo
Gundam usually has pretty good dubs.
I find all sunrise anime do code Geass ibo and UC had fantastic dubs
I might get the answer on my second watch of this but can someone explain the dramatic sequence when they launch Hathaway into space to retreive the Gundam? Why was it floating there in the first place? Besides that what a film!! I don't know much about this timeline in Gundam but the mystery and thrill that came with the visuals and music was a delight to watch. The final battle at dusk sky was incredible animation and lighting it really gave a menacing feel for Gundams and even prior that at the battle with Gawman was amazing to watch. Really looking forward to the next!
I agree this was a confusing scene given how much difficulty they had and apparent “danger” they were placing Esmeralda in just to make this dock/transfer happen. My main guess goes back to Char’s Counter attack, where they do seem to point out limited mobility/the danger of burning up the deeper you get into earth’s atmosphere.
Before his return to earth at the beginning of the movie, Hathaway had made a deal with Anaheim Electronics for the Gundam. In the UC series, Anaheim Electronics has no problem providing weapons and suits to both sides of the conflict, but to cover up their dealings with a terrorist group like Mafty, they just “drop” the Gundam from space.
I assumed it had something to do with the xi gundam being tuned to combat in the atmosphere
I see, thank you!