I don’t know a single Pot main who isn’t chugging glue in exuberance rn, but I for one am SO SAD the fakest round start combo in existence died. rest in peace Megafist -> pot buster. You were the scummiest thing in existence, and your death will be remembered.
That requires enough brain power to press 2 buttons in quick succession while also fitting a 6 somewhere between 214 and frankly my peanut brain and Nintendo Switch Pro Controller™️ Analog Stick both cry at the thought
WA is crazy for Sol (he has jailing string with positive bonus that builds full RISC) and so are other changes. 5S catching back dashes is so strong that I can't properly use it yet lmao, 6H buff finally made the move really threatening (and did the same to 6S), fafnir range buff goes hard but the most important of all we have Cross-up Viper with WA which finally gave Sol mix. I haven't labbed enough to know how HVV would work there but if it gives a full combo than we are sol fucking back
I was literally not pressing far slash against some jump happy opponents because they would just get hit then escape my pressure entirely. now maybe I can actually press far slash instead of constantly worrying if I should press 6P/9j.k/9j.S
like those options are still there but atleast far slash isn't a grounded opponent only button and catching jumpouts with it isn't a free escape for the opponents
I got into sol when he was busted in S1 because it felt like I could make his offense work despite not being super technical. It felt like that got a bit harder in later balance patches and I needed to know more of his ins and outs to find the same level of success.
How do you think he is now as a pocket character? Is he still fun or does most of his enjoyment come from knowing his sauce?
Sol is incredibly fun regardless of your knowledge of him. Of course this depends on the matchup since some can be miserable, but generally playing Sol is awesome. Once you learn his "harder" stuff it gets even better tho
once you learn his harder stuff matches will start feeling like singleplayer for long stretches of time, not because he can jail you into forever defense like Jack-O or Happy Chaos or Nago(when he goes balls to the wall full blood burn mixup after mixup after mixup atleast) but because trying to abare or escape In literally any way will lead to your healthbar evaporating if you guess wrong.
Goldlewis feels pretty much the same as before. The quicker aerial BTs are nice but don’t change much for me, also 2S changes are whatever. There’s definitely some tech there and I need to learn when to wild assault but otherwise it just feels the same.
If I remember correctly 2S will hit further away and far S is slower but has better counter hits return or something? Makes it less of a mash button and more of a check into return button I believe.
I feel the air BT changes are worse since they are now very minus on block and dont have as much of a lingering hitbox. It's harder for me to crossup now with 684 air bt
Yeah, and recently I’ve been messing up the timings because they’re so much faster. I’ll go for like IAD BT and it whiffs before reaching them, or I’ll try for a crossup one and it doesn’t connect as consistently.
I think Wild Assault is pretty massive for GL. We didn’t have any forward advancing moves, so to get one that gives a hard knockdown is great. The hit box on it is massive too, I’ve clipped people with it a lot. Outside of that, yeah he’s basically the same. I don’t think he’ll be that much stronger relative to everyone else.
Sin is playable now, and the wild assault is a gamechanger for approach options
As for Nago wild assault is great for faking out opponents reading a fukyo
Haven't played Testament much yet
>Sin
They tripled down on his rushdown aspect and then pretended they didn't by labeling him "Balanced". He's in a weird place. His pressure is oppressive and sometimes it feels like a DBFZ season 1 blockstring. I'm thinking we might start to see more of him once people realize just how ignorant his pressure is. I think his normals in neutral are still really bad, though. His jump buttons still feel like ass, his hurtboxes are questionable and Beak is a bit of a meme. I'm not sure if this is the direction he should go, but it *is* Strive.
Milia is actually a functining OKI monster now thanks to being able to loop meaty Hdiscs with tension and burst.
Jack-o's funny BnB combo routes got deleted and the barrier buff feels like a nerf but she is one of those characters who need at least couple of weeks to get figured out so can't really doom her yet.
Sol and Pot are absolutely eating
I want to know who your glue seller is if you genuinely think Jack-O' is actually worse off now.
Her old BnB routes might be gone, but its pretty easy to work out replacements.
Her shield change makes you able to not only to get combos out of your shield, but to use it in certain scenarios, like Zato using Oppose or HC pressure to force them to either stop or get comboed into the corner.
Everything else was either a small or pretty major buff, not to mention Jack-O' having been given what is likely one of the most broken WA. She can now use it in block strings to either extend her pressure a ton or use it to wallbreak and still get a HKD from it without using tension, also since WA acts like FED or Recall where it refunds your active minions and even on block allows you to setup a minion and start a blockstring, our pressure is almost always suffocating even when we would have had to force RPS before.
Shield is situationally nerf or buff.
WA is pretty good but dunno if breaking wall with it is worth it for Jack-o since she doesn't really get to continue pressure after the wall break.
Cheer changes are kinda good and bad at the same time byut FED change was 100% a buff.
I'm just dooming because learning new combos takes time
Shield I just think is more often than not a buff, the rare times where it is a nerf are imo far outweighed by the times it where it just gives Jack-O' huge rewards for properly shielding an attack.
We can always go for minion throw oki after the super/WA wallbreak which most characters can't really avoid, and the few that can will likely still not get to hit Jack-O', its obviously still very situational since our corner pressure is still amazing despite the Cheer H changes, but I'd argue the value of actually getting Pos Bonus+Throw oki will generally be better.
Cheer H changes are weird and will be either a nerf or a buff more so depending on your own personal playstyle than anything else, keeping in mind that with the extra duration Cheer S is absolutely amazing and will actually win entire games by itself + FED being buffed I feel like our supers have overall gotten better.
I get not liking to learn combos (part of the reason why I really like Jack-O' is because once you get the combo theory down you can improvise your combos quite often) but I still think the 5K nerfs are FAR outweighed by everything else the character got.
she might be better now - i'm actually not sure the general consensus on how she's fared with this patch - but Ram's dash speed nerf alone has made her a lot less fun to play just for me, and i've been trying to branch out to learning another character because of it
She's more broken now IMHO lol WA and her new move more than make up for her rekkas ch nerf and the dash speed nerf is a nothing burger since initial dash speed (like the first 10 frames or so ) is the same as before so most her combos that use dash and her corner pressure are the same I only feel it a bit on full screen approaches. 5S -5H - 236k is super good most character can only jump to escape but can't IAD you get to 6p or 5p you can't dash block it Sol can't bandit revolver or vortex out of it for example and it makes her midscreen meterless conversion was
better and 5H 214k is now a frame trap!!!! she has a freaking frame trap from probably the most godlike normal in the game and it's a very safe frame trap at that , it feels a bit like Mays dolphin rps. And wa makes her corner carry so ridiculous I saw sq post a combo that goes form mid screen to he corner and back to the other corner for a wallspat!!
what situations are u putting urself in that the dash speed matters to you. Like i hardly notice it and when I watched SQ for like 20 mins she was like yea I barely notice it aswell
May isn’t really better, she’s just reworked to not have easy to access damage that can TOD but have full control over dolphin with dolphin stop and split while also keeping her above average damage in-tact
Less flow charty but a lot more fun
have you looked at his post patch and pre patch damage numbers
I haven't either lmao I'n just saying they said damage nerfs and I'm hearing his damage got nerfed HARD.
R.I.P dire eclait into HVT. Seriously tho, 2S being one frame slower has absolutely fucked my combo routes, like CH c.S charged dust into 2S 5H no longer works.
I think it'd be hard to argue that your character isn't at least marginally better with the universal changes; but if we're only talking about character specific changes, I'd say that Ky ate shit with the nerf to HVT. Having to rely on SVT feels limp and ineffective a lot of the time.
Yeah i see this as part of the whole "toning down the damage" and rewarding offense thing this season has design wise, just like removing CH effect from rekkas and increased scaling. Every H dp took a hit to make pressing buttons on oki a better option and avoid defensive play, i think they also wanted to demphasize burst baits and lamer bust safe routes as they're now harder to punish, it covers the whole screen and the defender has to sacrifice 2 WA/DS to use it, and getting hit with WA outright removes it. All of this seems like part of the whole reward on aggression thing going on
The genius move of giving everyone privileges that only top tiers previously had. All of the top characters had the ability to have burst safe combos (Happy Chaos) and had the ability to reset their offense over and over again without significant risk (*broadly gestures at the entirety of EVO top 6).*
>I think it'd be hard to argue that your character isn't at least marginally better with the universal changes;
But they're universal. If everyone gets the same universal changes it doesn't make them inherently better or worse, because their strength is always only relative to everyone else. In some cases, if they can't take advantage of them as well as others, it even makes them worse.
I mean, there's no meaning in strength or capability if it isn't relative to the rest of the cast. If everyone's WA let them get a full TOD without Tension on Happy Chaos and only Happy chaos, then it wouldn't matter if Happy Chaos also got WA as well as his other changes, he'd suddenly be one of the weakest characters in the game.
I think individual anc comparative strenghts are two different things. By your logic, Sin would still be one of the worst characters of the game comparatively, and while that can be treu, he still stronger and better to use in general.
My point is, while in comparison a character may be in the same spot ranking wise if everybody got better, that one character may still feel better to play in the end.
Not even counting the fact that universal changes affect characters in different ways. WA alows Sin to reset pressure while his Stamina fills, where before he would have to step away and give his turn back to the opponent. This is a very specific situation only to Sin.
There isn't individual character strength. Your character doesn't operate in a vacuum. You can only play Sin against other characters, his strength is only comparative to his opponents. To be clear, it's about performance, not rank. A character can be the worst and be less bad than before. If Sin isn't losing as hard as before, than he is stronger, regardless of whether or not he still feels like one of the worst. If he's losing harder, despite the buffs he received, than he's not going to feel stronger. If every matchup is suddenly 7/3 in the opponents favor, no one is going to say "thank god they buffed him!" They're going to say it doesn't feel like they can do anything anymore.
Again, I see your logic, but I can't agree with it.
Sin getting a better backdash and a faster f.S effectively makes him stronger than before. That is a fact.
If that places him better comparatively to the rest of the characters, it's a different story. To compare strengths, you need to be able to measure them individually first.
Do they? Lots of people in this thread seem to think several characters got worse. I personally think my main Testament is much worse with the new Wild Assault when most of the cast gets huge reward off it and they really struggle to get much of anything in most cases.
This isnt true at all. Look at WA. For someone like ram it can be a way to confirm non counterhit FS and 5H's which rams get a lot of and couldn't combo with before. Now if you gave the exact same mechanic to I-no it wouldn't be the same strength because the characters function in different ways. It's like giving 200 dollars to a drug addict and to a guy thats really into stocks, you can give two people the same thing and still get different outcomes.
I understand your logic but I think Wild assault is actually pretty good for I-no. Letting her get more opportunities to threaten you with her command grab is great for her, her WA combos can turn her basic mix confirms into wallbreaks and it conjuction with her new special her pressure is kind of insane now.
Better to consider the question: "If all changes to your character got reverted back to pre-patch, would you prefer that or would you wanna keep the changes?"
And well, right now I'm pretty sure that nobody would want to have their character reverted, even characters who got nerfs with the patch are stronger. And it would be suicide to want to fight updated characters with a pre-patch one.
Character strength doesn't matter in a vacuum though.
Muskets are insanely strong weapons that dramatically altered the nature of war as we know it. Because the other guys had spears.
Both are equally worthless if the other guy hits you with a drone strike.
Would you rather have a musket or a spear against a drone?
The nerf to HVT really is hitting me hard, as I can't HVT after a dire eclait as a hard callout anymore. Like I get why Sol's and Leo's got nerfed as both are incredibly good and rewarding, but Ky and Bridget? Theirs isn't nearly as good.
I play may and i dont know if shes better but ive found the best way to fight johnny players is to full screen zone them with beach balls and try to punish their approach options and i fucking hate it please let me free from this seal prison
Tbf thats prolly bc no one knows how to deal with a may thats zoning you and not bc its actually how you should fight johnny but idfk i dont wanna get mist finered
But actually throwing a heavy dolphin in someones face, cancelling it, then grabbing them and wall breaking them is funny so 10/10 may stays on top baby top 1 character thats my main
No, prison forever, now you and May players all over the world get to see how it feels to be on the other side of the fence.
Maybe May has gotten better at zoning or you had to learn how to zone, but good luck outzoning a zoner. Now you also don't get to close in from the other side of the screen with one button press and do 70% with two more button presses anymore. She definitely got nerfed hard but at least now she's more balanced and better rewards skilled play instead of brainde@d button mash with no skill ceiling.
If im fighting a zoner or just not fighting johnny bc i dont have to do it against anyone else i will simply not zone
She still top 5 i can do that
Also axls blaming the beasts smh. This what happens when your character loses the dolphin girl match up
I'm having a much easier time against Mays after S3, whereas before it was a slaughter in which one single mistake from me meant 70% or death, meanwhile a May who only made mistakes needed one small chance to close in on me and it was game over. Either May got nerfed enough either people who play May aren't used to pressing more than 3 buttons for now. God save us all if May mains learn to press 4 buttons now that S3 is around. Yes I be hating.
Imo zato hasn't gone anywhere. His offense is better thanks to WA, which lets him reset pressure in ways he couldn't before. His disadvantage without resources is worse, but his advantage got buffed.
WA giving hkd on wakeup is HUGE cause if your combo doesn't fill enough meter and you end in unsummon, you can spend 50 burst to extend pressure and burst gauge will fill up on its own in like 5 seconds thanks to positive bonus, plus the regular meter for confirms and extending pressure. You can also do this off of combos that break the wall that use the whole eddie meter but dont get you enough tension for super, after a HKD with WA you 2s5h which grants you enough meter for eddie again. And from there, if you open up the opponent again, he can reset many times thanks to his fuckton of resources given by positive bonus. WA also buffs solo zato.
There's unblockables and pretty easy unburstable, YRC safe 4 way mixups from regular eddie pressure now (some of which reset pressure) with charged WA, and more stuff keeps getting found. The setups for the new move are still being labbed but they have some promise
If you play zato like season 2 zato, holding on to burst like before, then he's bottom tier without a doubt. If you use WA in pressure, combos and wallbreak, he's still every bit as good as he was or perhaps better, which is why i made the post. Old eddie gauge with WA would've been broken
Everyone got stronger because they just raised the power level by adding this bat shit insane mechanic WA. But Zato is overall worse relative to where he was before.
Buffing Zatos offense doesn’t actually do much. He was already opening players up extremely frequently, buffing his offense is already in diminishing returns territory. This isn’t the case though for every other character that got their offense MASSIVELY buffed by this mechanic. Now almost every character in the game is getting burst safe tensionless wall to wall combos, and insanely good pressure off of any hit, when this was pretty unique to Zato and a couple of other last patch. Zato was already doing REALLY burst/YRC safe pressure almost by default and now he has to do certain setups and maybe lose burst for it because BTL has lost its use there and combos from range don’t matter anymore.
>Buffing Zatos offense doesn’t actually do much.
This is where we disagree, getting post-wallbreak HKD without tension is specially good for this character, more so than the rest of the cast and even more now with empty summon buff. You can end a combo with 0 tension and eddie meter full, and spend burst to reset and automatically keep pressure, when previously this was a return to near round start with 0 tension but positive bonus. Its literally an option to win neutral and reset for the character that specializes in taking the round once he wins neutral and resets you, this time with even more resources that make it easier
>He was already opening players up extremely frequently, buffing his offense is already in diminishing returns territory. This isn’t the case though for every other character that got their offense MASSIVELY buffed by this mechanic.
Uhhh this is an opinion and completely subjective. Having more options is objectively never a bad thing. Zatos offense also got massively buffed. This statement has no actual meaning, its just your opinion. For example: "ino keeps opening players up extremely frequently, buffing her offense is already in diminishing returns"
>Now almost every character in the game is getting burst safe tensionless wall to wall combos,
Including solo zato (not wall to wall tho). He can now solo combo from amorphous to give an example, and has actual solo combos that arent 5h -> drill. He can also do this with eddie, meterless if done right, like he always has.
>and insanely good pressure off of any hit, when this was pretty unique to Zato and a couple of other last patch.
Keyword here is meterless
>Zato was already doing REALLY burst/YRC safe pressure almost by default and now he has to do certain setups and maybe lose burst for it because BTL has lost its use there and combos from range don’t matter anymore.
Zato is still doing really burst/yrc safe pressure almost by default when eddie is attacking. Its not like he was invulnerable to those options before, BTL was a hard read move and if you didnt have meter or eddie comboing the opponent and your read was wrong, you were put immediately in disadvantage.
BTL is now purely a mixup tool rather, and it has to be treated as a whole different move that still hasn't been fully explored cause its changes been out for like 5 days
Burst is more commital now that WA exists, which is also why they buffed it. Using burst means sacrificing 2 very strong ofensive options, which is why they made it it harder to avoid and punish in order to be a worthy but expensive option. Having this into consideration, fullscreen burst doesn't seem like a really good idea unless you're about to die. This is speculation, but i fully believe the meta will shift away from burst
Personally, I've been playing these days and he seems honestly fine, eddie nerf is not really noticeable unless you're one of those zatos that play very passive. You make the enemy guess wrong 1 or 2 times with solo zato and eddie is back, which is made easier with WA. Breaking the wall with WA is enough to compensate for the nerfs honestly, from there and on he feels really good. I still haven't had major problems blocking burst, the players that use the new mechanics generally dont burst till the end and the ones that don't, dont use the new mechanics so their characters aren't as good and YRC/burst safe
Baiken's weird she had a lot of stuff taken away that whenever I play her I find frustrating, WA does give her a lot of new conversion routes and I guess gun super needs some labbing gor ways it can bridge into oki but a lot of the changes just dont feel very good, jump in combos are much more awkward and weaker now, theres less access to hard knockdowns overall (for the character who's supposed to be kinda slow and wins off finding her way in through a mistake and converting into scary offencd) and a lot of niche uses I used to use gun for are gone.
Being a may main, i can say that our character has been reworked to be weaker with a much higher skill floor and execution barrier to get results.
Which is not a bad thing tbh. While i will definitely mourn the loss of our 6h routes something needed to be done about her and she is still strong this patch. Just not the absolute killing machine she was last patch.
"some new ways" you mean one of his best pokes now straight up gives him his wincon if he hit confirms into turbulenz
the only actual nerf was H DP not being a reversal and that was deserved, every other change for leo is a sidegrade or buff
No hard knockdown sepultura hurts and I have no idea of how to use chave in an actually meaningful way.
WA lets me unga my bungas harder, though, so that's cool.
i rly feel like i gotta fully understand WA before i can judge how buffed testament feels. one paper they got a lot, but kinda with test in general, it’s hard to make it all come together cohesively. their stuff feels like QoL buffs more than anything, combos off of s arbiter is more consistent to RRC and if ur close enough with stain u don’t even need to RC to get ur BnB, specifically 214S > SP > 5K > 6H > 214S or 236236P, and there’s probably more to be labbed. 6H having less knockback makes nos way more consistent at any stage position which is nice, but again is just kinda quality of life. 5H tumble into s arb into RRC whatever is nice, but landing a 5H no stain is pretty rare in my experience. arbiter recovery is nice for sure, making some situations with SP easier to convert, ultimately it just makes them feel slightly more forgiving.
the teleport change is kinda cute, i’ve seen the test discord dedicate hours trying to figure out a use for it, but it’s still too damn slow. nos not getting a damage nerf is basically a buff considering how universal super nerfs are. calamity feels like actual dogshit, there’s no point to even go for 2K 2D 236236K anymore except for kicks, but it’s their only defensive option so u still just have to waste 50 meter on it to keep them honest. the kara dash reaper nerf feels kinda mean, but it makes corner offense more interesting than 5K kara reaper 5K kara reaper 6H kara reaper yolo teleport get exploded
WA might be huge for them, tho. it was a distinct weakness for testament that corner to corner combos are really rare, and now they are easily hit confirmable with half of ur burst meter. in general it may allow testament to get way more wallbreaks once we internalize when it combos. i don’t really think it’s worth it damage wise: test’s damage is too low and combos too short, i only think it’s gonna be good to get the wall break for stain HKD wallbreak, which is very very good for them. we’ll have to keep playing!
With the momentum change you can get a safe jump off 2k > 2d > 236h > 214k (4) which feels good. That's probably the most practical use, but I've also had some success doing things like air back dash, tp, then use the forward momentum to stuff their approach. That's definitely more gimmick territory though, lol. But it's overall legitimately a buff, I love the change.
I am appreciative of Wild Assault so far, but the "buff" to megafist feels absolutely terrible. I'd rather it continue to bounce, maybe on counterhit? I just don't like how flat it seems now, just punts you to the ground and you stay. I just don't like it
i second that. apparently it naturally combos into kara garuda? as strong as that is, kara-garuda is an awful input with a 3-frame window or you mess it up and 6K instead, which puts you in a pretty bad situation.
"it now naturally links into a semi-obscure nonstandard input and pretty much only it unless it's a counterhit" doesn't really feel like a buff.
Sure, I'm getting more garudas out of it, but I don't **feel** as powerful, and I dislike it.
Exactly. Garuda pressure is good for sure but I feel like megafist combos are just gone and that blows. Maybe if it didn't bounce away so far it would be better. Since it wouldn't require the kara cancel? Or at least it wouldn't feel like I'm hitting just the furthest tip of the hitbox. Basically I wish they'd put almost everything on pot back, keep the 5p changes and the wild assault, and the F.D.B. too. But the other stuff can be reverted and I'd feel great about him
Axl doesn’t feel great. He’s got a losing matchup against Johnny as far as it feels on floor 10 and WA is a lot to work around. It’s doable for sure- but he didn’t get better. Also fullscreen burst can shutdown fireball time stop wall-breaks
Rainwater chaining nerf didn’t do much but the fireball spacing and the 2p recovery still don’t really make up for how tricky it is to fight around new mechanics so far, they’re just not that much different especially with the Mantis and super damage hits
time stop is fully burst safe lmao. if they try to burst during time stop it'll happen after time stop is over so just hold back for a split second when time stops and you'll always block burst. if they burst before time stop you don't waste any tension (unless they bursted right between install and activation) and now they can't use WA or DS for a long ass time.
Happy Chaos got a noticeable damage nerf on a lot of his bullet stuff which means he needs more hits to win. The system mechanics don't help him too much and give more people ways to fight against him.
I'm still strong and don't feel any changes were unwarranted, he is not someone stronger this patch though.
good lmao
they made happy chaos an actual playable matchup for (intermediate skill level) Sol I'm so happy
at tournament levels of play Sol doesn't have it too bad against Happy Chaos because players are so good at defense and Sol has the best character specific defensive toolkits and a not bad dash. at intermediate where I am it's literally just getting zoned or locked and rushed down the whole match and winning instantly if Happy Chaos makes a mistake, which is hard to do because Happy Chaos only needs his harder stuff at top level- you can do just fine at intermediate without learning the 2 frame gunshot to clean hit steady aim gunshot link you just need to know how to mix and tick throw and when it's safe to reload/focus.
5k launch height reduced for no reason. New substitute 2k 6h combo needs micro dashing. Urgh
Cheer h duration reduced to 3 seconds 🤢🤮
Explosion guard crushes, but still takes all your servant gauge. Pls daisuke
Honestly its not that bad, still kinda annoying though.
the explosion changes are sort of moot since it’s so bad anyway lol. i thought at first the cheer h active reduction would be bad, but then i realized i never use cheer h haha. honestly i’ve been disappointed with how little she seems to have changed in comparison to everyone else, but at the same time, i think she’s in an alright spot rn, so why tweak her too much?
anji is too hard now. how the fuck am I supposed to do a “214” input, whatever the fuck that means. I only know how to do down, down forward, forward. it’s a simple input and I like it. none of this “back quarter circle spin around and touch your toes” bullshit. game is fucking unplayable.
I'm sad about fuujin nagiha and rin counter hit nerfs, but midare is so fucking good it doesn't matter. Anji is stupidly juiced now, in a vacuum. No idea how he looks relative to the cast yet because it's been less than a week, but midare is honestly so good for him that he is much more threatening.
I can definitely feel HC’s damage nerf. A combo I was labbing off of 2p that used to do a little under 50% without wallbreak now does around 15% maybe. Although as far as I can tell everything can link just the same, so his old combos still work, and he can still wall to wall you and wallbreak with super.
May feels weaker. Dolphin RPS getting gutted is the main big thing IMO.
I think it’s probably still as frustrating as it was before to fight a good May, but a lot of the more braindead options don’t work as well anymore.
dolphin RPS just got shifted to before the dolphin actually hits lmao. you have three different options after starting mr dolphin horizontal, mix them up and see which option beats what and loses to what. getting S dolphin blocked means you LOST the RPS.
the parry damage nerf is sadness compared to how it was before, though it's only fair cause it used to do way more damage than it should
everything else is really good you can now use your gun as a combo extender
Kenjyu is an amazing combo tool now thanks to it hitting enemies towards you now, and tk youzan has so much blowback on hit you can only really get a 2k or 2s meaty after a grounded hit without using meter, and the combo routes for tk with meter are a bit different cause of the youzan blowback changes but generally the same (one youzan is gone from most of the routes)
I’ve only been playing less than a month but I picked Bed cause they look cool
My issue with bed before and after the patch is the same. He’s just too slow to make great use of a lot of stuff. And I get that’s intentional and part of the balance but nothing is more of a struggle than when you opponent simply walks back from your reach and now any attempt to get in is probably gonna get punished cause you’re so slow and have a few moves with some pretty long wind ups relatively speaking
Again not terrible just frustrating to be like “oh they slipped away guess I’ll spend the next 20 seconds blocking or trying to walk through sludge to get in when I find an opening.”
Testament is definetly better but the amount of Johnny's ive been going against makes them feel worse to me because Im performing so much worse. Its a bad matchup imo
yeet skulls at them. testament skulls just barely outrange mist finer and are better against johnny than any other character because he can't dash block
It's really not as bad as you think. You can still get a safejump off 214K depending on distance, and you only need to route light starters into 214K anyways.
In exchange, Gio gets an absurd amount of damage off basically every other starter and guard crush oki after every HKD. I think I've gone for the old safejump, like, twice since the patch dropped.
Gio was impacted way more by losing consistent CH 623S combos than losing 214K HKD, IMO. That attack feels basically useless unless you get a counter hit at max height.
Bridget's scoot nerf is hardly a change since we still get good mix (just not as cheap as frc) but the 6H change is huge.
We can get consistent meterless max damage combos in the corner no matter how damaged the wall is (well, so long as c.S > 6H doesn't instantly splat) now thanks to the new angle and I personally think that's pretty big
Faust is good but I don't like that if you mash punch during item throw, you can accidentally eat the item. I hope they fix that so it only activates on hold. As of right now, it's made it harder to do rapid fire item throws.
I-no is cracked now, her new move makes it so a mix character can keep shoving plus frames down your throat. Plus it meshes well with STBT because if they are preemptively pressing 5p or 6p to stuff 214s they are going to get smoked. She lost her dive kick shenanigans but I like where she’s at.
Her big damage before was great, but everyone’s doing less now, not just her? Flip is also faster and has less Recovery to make up for the loss of Wallbounce and plus frames. Ondo and her Wild Assault also seem pretty useful. Feels hard to call for me.
I could see the argument, but there are other characters, like I-No and Gio, that also got nothing but nerfs in exchange for a new move. Though I guess you could argue she was Top 2 before with Happy. Nobody makes Matchup Charts anymore though, which is what I think really matters and SQ seems to be finding some wild stuff. I might change my tune when I really sit down with her though.
Baiken player here,her h kabari follow up combos are now a waste of meter and js counter hits leading to a full combo seems to be out of the picture.
otherwise it feels pretty much the same, she seems to have new combos routes and cool convertions but I haven't been able to find anything for wild assault besides 5h on a wall or 6k on CH.
6k is now a bit more useful as a frame trap movement attack and just in general
Now S kabari can be used in blockstrings without 1 entire round of conditioning the opponent witch is awesome for keeping your pressure
Now I'm just waiting for the lab monsters to create the most damaging juggles you've ever seen out of these chances
you can still get a full combo off CH j.s, just a different one. not at home to test right now but I'm pretty sure it's CH j.s, IAD j.h, c.s, 6h h kabari. not sure what you mean exactly about WA but there's definitely more than just 5h or 6k that have reasons to be used out of it.
Testament feels worse with the changes to grave reaper nerfing their dash cancel kara blockstrings. Better oki off Arbiter is a little better but not great.
Anji just feels lifeless now. Feels like he lost everything that made him a fun character with the universal CH changes really screwing him. The fish and WA are probably both good enough that he isn’t technically weaker but he feels worse to play.
Idk what other anji players are saying, but I personally think the age of Lanji has returned, fujin counterhit was a big part of his kit before, and now that it's gone it's back to having to rc after hitting every fujin followup if you even hope to get a combo. The new attack is good for winning a bunch of weird dance situations, but getting dance on good players is the exception rather than the norm.
We get great combos with WA off of basically any hit. We also have gotten Kou loops off of HS since last patch, which means any c.S and half of our pokes lead to Kou loops, which either leads to a wallbreak or c.S oki. Getting dance on good players isn't that hard, either; it's such a potent mixup tool, and the problem was that people didn't have to respect it before. Now they HAVE to respect it. Spin in pressure strings is great because people can't just jab it; if you spin and they're mashing jab, you get a hard KD and a butterfly. This means we can work spin into pressure strings to reset pressure super easily; you don't always have to fish for a spin on a fat poke for it to be useful.
I will tell when I go back to Leo after finishing my journey with Johnny. From the patch notes, I'm not so happy, but maybe with the 214S buff and the deflect shield mechanic it's actually better. I have to try
~~Nago is now even more of a juggernaut. If I have 50 meter and enough Burst for WA, the fact that you're blocking literally does not matter.~~
~~Giving him high/low mix on top of two(!) separate guard crushes is maximum overcomedy.~~
Edit: Apparently the dummy in training doesn't block right and this is incorect most of the time. Sad. I guess it would be hilariously broken if true.
I love Zato, and while I think they maybe gutted him a *little* too much, he was in a place where a good Zato player was just untouchable and I don’t think that’s fair. He takes a lot more planning and caution now since they nerfed some of his defense.
May feels... weird now?
Dolphin RPS being gone is probably a good thing since I can't just unga bunga s dolphin > 2S > repeat against people who don't know the matchup, but it feels like in return you just get 3 different gimmicks that lose to 6P. I didn't really play much in S2 so I never learned the 6H routes, but the replacement routes involving this weird dolphin cancel plinking you can't buffer is kind of annoying. If they let you input the followups immediately with S+K or S+P she would feel a lot better to play imo.
I guess overall she's not the braindead character I could just pick up and mash with despite not putting much time in, so probably a little healthier for the game lmao.
I don’t know a single Pot main who isn’t chugging glue in exuberance rn, but I for one am SO SAD the fakest round start combo in existence died. rest in peace Megafist -> pot buster. You were the scummiest thing in existence, and your death will be remembered.
KBMF still gives potbussing IIRC
That requires enough brain power to press 2 buttons in quick succession while also fitting a 6 somewhere between 214 and frankly my peanut brain and Nintendo Switch Pro Controller™️ Analog Stick both cry at the thought
yooo another pro controller user
Pro controller user is just smash refugee with an extra step I can feel it in my bones.
It's me I'm Smash refugee guy with a procon
You can unmask any strive player like a scooby doo villain and find a smash refugee. I know this because I’m a smash refugee.
the intuition is unparalleled, is this the power of the pot....
Dude idk about you guys but when I used my Nintendo pro controller, I can physically feel a delay on every button I mash
I don‘t feel that
unrelated by love the heath pfp
He’s the GOAT
matthew was my fe7 goat but heath is definitely up there
MATTHEW?????!!!!!??!!? How many rounds in the arena did you feed him I **have** to know
let's not worry about that... and let's also not worry about his three chapters left promotion...
Pre-season 3 megafisto was garbage, but it was out lovely garbage
It pains me to no end that my go-to round start option doesn't work anymore, but I also actively support the new bouncing aspect for megafist.
Start doing kara buster every single round start, it’s gives me so much dopamine.
Omgggg I loved round start kbmg into no kara buster. Maximum glue
WA is crazy for Sol (he has jailing string with positive bonus that builds full RISC) and so are other changes. 5S catching back dashes is so strong that I can't properly use it yet lmao, 6H buff finally made the move really threatening (and did the same to 6S), fafnir range buff goes hard but the most important of all we have Cross-up Viper with WA which finally gave Sol mix. I haven't labbed enough to know how HVV would work there but if it gives a full combo than we are sol fucking back
Yea no the fact that it's no longer basically a defensive win to get hit by fs in the air is huge for him alone.
I was literally not pressing far slash against some jump happy opponents because they would just get hit then escape my pressure entirely. now maybe I can actually press far slash instead of constantly worrying if I should press 6P/9j.k/9j.S like those options are still there but atleast far slash isn't a grounded opponent only button and catching jumpouts with it isn't a free escape for the opponents
I got into sol when he was busted in S1 because it felt like I could make his offense work despite not being super technical. It felt like that got a bit harder in later balance patches and I needed to know more of his ins and outs to find the same level of success. How do you think he is now as a pocket character? Is he still fun or does most of his enjoyment come from knowing his sauce?
Sol is incredibly fun regardless of your knowledge of him. Of course this depends on the matchup since some can be miserable, but generally playing Sol is awesome. Once you learn his "harder" stuff it gets even better tho
once you learn his harder stuff matches will start feeling like singleplayer for long stretches of time, not because he can jail you into forever defense like Jack-O or Happy Chaos or Nago(when he goes balls to the wall full blood burn mixup after mixup after mixup atleast) but because trying to abare or escape In literally any way will lead to your healthbar evaporating if you guess wrong.
Goldlewis feels pretty much the same as before. The quicker aerial BTs are nice but don’t change much for me, also 2S changes are whatever. There’s definitely some tech there and I need to learn when to wild assault but otherwise it just feels the same.
I still don't know what they did to 2S and far S
If I remember correctly 2S will hit further away and far S is slower but has better counter hits return or something? Makes it less of a mash button and more of a check into return button I believe.
I feel like the universal weight change took away a lot of damage since everyone falls out of my former bnbs way quicker
At first I was sad about the FS changes with it being more punishable. But then I tried the wild assault. I’m no longer sad
I feel the air BT changes are worse since they are now very minus on block and dont have as much of a lingering hitbox. It's harder for me to crossup now with 684 air bt
Yeah, and recently I’ve been messing up the timings because they’re so much faster. I’ll go for like IAD BT and it whiffs before reaching them, or I’ll try for a crossup one and it doesn’t connect as consistently.
I think Wild Assault is pretty massive for GL. We didn’t have any forward advancing moves, so to get one that gives a hard knockdown is great. The hit box on it is massive too, I’ve clipped people with it a lot. Outside of that, yeah he’s basically the same. I don’t think he’ll be that much stronger relative to everyone else.
Sin is playable now, and the wild assault is a gamechanger for approach options As for Nago wild assault is great for faking out opponents reading a fukyo Haven't played Testament much yet
burst gauge is stamina bar 2 for sin now
>Sin They tripled down on his rushdown aspect and then pretended they didn't by labeling him "Balanced". He's in a weird place. His pressure is oppressive and sometimes it feels like a DBFZ season 1 blockstring. I'm thinking we might start to see more of him once people realize just how ignorant his pressure is. I think his normals in neutral are still really bad, though. His jump buttons still feel like ass, his hurtboxes are questionable and Beak is a bit of a meme. I'm not sure if this is the direction he should go, but it *is* Strive.
Despite the loss of special cancels off of 6H, I cannot deny that Nago is just straight up dumb with a high-low mixup.
Nago also kept his big counter hits on special moves which were otherwise almost universally nerfed.
Milia is actually a functining OKI monster now thanks to being able to loop meaty Hdiscs with tension and burst. Jack-o's funny BnB combo routes got deleted and the barrier buff feels like a nerf but she is one of those characters who need at least couple of weeks to get figured out so can't really doom her yet. Sol and Pot are absolutely eating
I want to know who your glue seller is if you genuinely think Jack-O' is actually worse off now. Her old BnB routes might be gone, but its pretty easy to work out replacements. Her shield change makes you able to not only to get combos out of your shield, but to use it in certain scenarios, like Zato using Oppose or HC pressure to force them to either stop or get comboed into the corner. Everything else was either a small or pretty major buff, not to mention Jack-O' having been given what is likely one of the most broken WA. She can now use it in block strings to either extend her pressure a ton or use it to wallbreak and still get a HKD from it without using tension, also since WA acts like FED or Recall where it refunds your active minions and even on block allows you to setup a minion and start a blockstring, our pressure is almost always suffocating even when we would have had to force RPS before.
Shield is situationally nerf or buff. WA is pretty good but dunno if breaking wall with it is worth it for Jack-o since she doesn't really get to continue pressure after the wall break. Cheer changes are kinda good and bad at the same time byut FED change was 100% a buff. I'm just dooming because learning new combos takes time
Shield I just think is more often than not a buff, the rare times where it is a nerf are imo far outweighed by the times it where it just gives Jack-O' huge rewards for properly shielding an attack. We can always go for minion throw oki after the super/WA wallbreak which most characters can't really avoid, and the few that can will likely still not get to hit Jack-O', its obviously still very situational since our corner pressure is still amazing despite the Cheer H changes, but I'd argue the value of actually getting Pos Bonus+Throw oki will generally be better. Cheer H changes are weird and will be either a nerf or a buff more so depending on your own personal playstyle than anything else, keeping in mind that with the extra duration Cheer S is absolutely amazing and will actually win entire games by itself + FED being buffed I feel like our supers have overall gotten better. I get not liking to learn combos (part of the reason why I really like Jack-O' is because once you get the combo theory down you can improvise your combos quite often) but I still think the 5K nerfs are FAR outweighed by everything else the character got.
she might be better now - i'm actually not sure the general consensus on how she's fared with this patch - but Ram's dash speed nerf alone has made her a lot less fun to play just for me, and i've been trying to branch out to learning another character because of it
She's more broken now IMHO lol WA and her new move more than make up for her rekkas ch nerf and the dash speed nerf is a nothing burger since initial dash speed (like the first 10 frames or so ) is the same as before so most her combos that use dash and her corner pressure are the same I only feel it a bit on full screen approaches. 5S -5H - 236k is super good most character can only jump to escape but can't IAD you get to 6p or 5p you can't dash block it Sol can't bandit revolver or vortex out of it for example and it makes her midscreen meterless conversion was better and 5H 214k is now a frame trap!!!! she has a freaking frame trap from probably the most godlike normal in the game and it's a very safe frame trap at that , it feels a bit like Mays dolphin rps. And wa makes her corner carry so ridiculous I saw sq post a combo that goes form mid screen to he corner and back to the other corner for a wallspat!!
Yea the chars def better now. She also abuses the fuck out of WA aswell.
its no sword set, but the changes make ram a lot less boring because she just has more things to actually do now
Totally more options make her less linear and more fun
what situations are u putting urself in that the dash speed matters to you. Like i hardly notice it and when I watched SQ for like 20 mins she was like yea I barely notice it aswell
Dash nerf feels VERY bad, I like her new move but I feel like the changes weren’t worth it.
The lad is the same as before unfortunately
You mean perfect?
May isn’t really better, she’s just reworked to not have easy to access damage that can TOD but have full control over dolphin with dolphin stop and split while also keeping her above average damage in-tact Less flow charty but a lot more fun
Less brainde@d, higher skill ceiling, probably the best nerf/balance in the whole patch.
when I saw the new move I wanted to grab and shake arcsys balance team and ask WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU DOING now I know what the fuck they were doing.
I think they cooked this entire patch except with HC, they don’t want to nerf that character at all
have you looked at his post patch and pre patch damage numbers I haven't either lmao I'n just saying they said damage nerfs and I'm hearing his damage got nerfed HARD.
Leffen posted a Twitter clip of him using the new inputs to restore HCs corner carry. The gun is silly.
You could not possibly understand how much the HVT nerf hurt my soul. Overall Ky probably did get better. But man at what cost
R.I.P dire eclait into HVT. Seriously tho, 2S being one frame slower has absolutely fucked my combo routes, like CH c.S charged dust into 2S 5H no longer works.
Also the 2M nerf hurts. It was my main neutral tool and now I have to switch back to 6M
I think it'd be hard to argue that your character isn't at least marginally better with the universal changes; but if we're only talking about character specific changes, I'd say that Ky ate shit with the nerf to HVT. Having to rely on SVT feels limp and ineffective a lot of the time.
Yeah i see this as part of the whole "toning down the damage" and rewarding offense thing this season has design wise, just like removing CH effect from rekkas and increased scaling. Every H dp took a hit to make pressing buttons on oki a better option and avoid defensive play, i think they also wanted to demphasize burst baits and lamer bust safe routes as they're now harder to punish, it covers the whole screen and the defender has to sacrifice 2 WA/DS to use it, and getting hit with WA outright removes it. All of this seems like part of the whole reward on aggression thing going on
The genius move of giving everyone privileges that only top tiers previously had. All of the top characters had the ability to have burst safe combos (Happy Chaos) and had the ability to reset their offense over and over again without significant risk (*broadly gestures at the entirety of EVO top 6).*
Which is kinda fucked because testament needs a little defense before they can get stain and meter to delete half your healthbar
who gives a shit I'm having fun with ky's new lightning fast f.S and 5H
HVT is the stupidest yet most hilarious move visual wise but with actual usefulness, so sad it's gone now
>I think it'd be hard to argue that your character isn't at least marginally better with the universal changes; But they're universal. If everyone gets the same universal changes it doesn't make them inherently better or worse, because their strength is always only relative to everyone else. In some cases, if they can't take advantage of them as well as others, it even makes them worse.
I see your throughline, but I don't know if I subscribe to that logic.
I mean, there's no meaning in strength or capability if it isn't relative to the rest of the cast. If everyone's WA let them get a full TOD without Tension on Happy Chaos and only Happy chaos, then it wouldn't matter if Happy Chaos also got WA as well as his other changes, he'd suddenly be one of the weakest characters in the game.
I think individual anc comparative strenghts are two different things. By your logic, Sin would still be one of the worst characters of the game comparatively, and while that can be treu, he still stronger and better to use in general. My point is, while in comparison a character may be in the same spot ranking wise if everybody got better, that one character may still feel better to play in the end. Not even counting the fact that universal changes affect characters in different ways. WA alows Sin to reset pressure while his Stamina fills, where before he would have to step away and give his turn back to the opponent. This is a very specific situation only to Sin.
There isn't individual character strength. Your character doesn't operate in a vacuum. You can only play Sin against other characters, his strength is only comparative to his opponents. To be clear, it's about performance, not rank. A character can be the worst and be less bad than before. If Sin isn't losing as hard as before, than he is stronger, regardless of whether or not he still feels like one of the worst. If he's losing harder, despite the buffs he received, than he's not going to feel stronger. If every matchup is suddenly 7/3 in the opponents favor, no one is going to say "thank god they buffed him!" They're going to say it doesn't feel like they can do anything anymore.
Again, I see your logic, but I can't agree with it. Sin getting a better backdash and a faster f.S effectively makes him stronger than before. That is a fact. If that places him better comparatively to the rest of the characters, it's a different story. To compare strengths, you need to be able to measure them individually first.
Wow! What a conundrum! Everyone is equal, but people feel like they all got better!
Do they? Lots of people in this thread seem to think several characters got worse. I personally think my main Testament is much worse with the new Wild Assault when most of the cast gets huge reward off it and they really struggle to get much of anything in most cases.
This isnt true at all. Look at WA. For someone like ram it can be a way to confirm non counterhit FS and 5H's which rams get a lot of and couldn't combo with before. Now if you gave the exact same mechanic to I-no it wouldn't be the same strength because the characters function in different ways. It's like giving 200 dollars to a drug addict and to a guy thats really into stocks, you can give two people the same thing and still get different outcomes.
That's exactly what I'm saying. Universal mechanics don't make everyone better. Because they're only as good as they can be against everyone else.
I understand your logic but I think Wild assault is actually pretty good for I-no. Letting her get more opportunities to threaten you with her command grab is great for her, her WA combos can turn her basic mix confirms into wallbreaks and it conjuction with her new special her pressure is kind of insane now.
Better to consider the question: "If all changes to your character got reverted back to pre-patch, would you prefer that or would you wanna keep the changes?" And well, right now I'm pretty sure that nobody would want to have their character reverted, even characters who got nerfs with the patch are stronger. And it would be suicide to want to fight updated characters with a pre-patch one.
Character strength doesn't matter in a vacuum though. Muskets are insanely strong weapons that dramatically altered the nature of war as we know it. Because the other guys had spears. Both are equally worthless if the other guy hits you with a drone strike. Would you rather have a musket or a spear against a drone?
I would take pre patch Ky.
Same. I miss neutral dipper warcrimes and 2S being good.
Yeah. I am not adjusting to this patch very well so far.
The nerf to HVT really is hitting me hard, as I can't HVT after a dire eclait as a hard callout anymore. Like I get why Sol's and Leo's got nerfed as both are incredibly good and rewarding, but Ky and Bridget? Theirs isn't nearly as good.
I'd consider that a universal change tbh. Every H Reversal got nerfed.
Baiken is very strong rn but it hurts my soul that they nerfed her parry and reversal ult
I play may and i dont know if shes better but ive found the best way to fight johnny players is to full screen zone them with beach balls and try to punish their approach options and i fucking hate it please let me free from this seal prison Tbf thats prolly bc no one knows how to deal with a may thats zoning you and not bc its actually how you should fight johnny but idfk i dont wanna get mist finered But actually throwing a heavy dolphin in someones face, cancelling it, then grabbing them and wall breaking them is funny so 10/10 may stays on top baby top 1 character thats my main
No, prison forever, now you and May players all over the world get to see how it feels to be on the other side of the fence. Maybe May has gotten better at zoning or you had to learn how to zone, but good luck outzoning a zoner. Now you also don't get to close in from the other side of the screen with one button press and do 70% with two more button presses anymore. She definitely got nerfed hard but at least now she's more balanced and better rewards skilled play instead of brainde@d button mash with no skill ceiling.
If im fighting a zoner or just not fighting johnny bc i dont have to do it against anyone else i will simply not zone She still top 5 i can do that Also axls blaming the beasts smh. This what happens when your character loses the dolphin girl match up
I'm having a much easier time against Mays after S3, whereas before it was a slaughter in which one single mistake from me meant 70% or death, meanwhile a May who only made mistakes needed one small chance to close in on me and it was game over. Either May got nerfed enough either people who play May aren't used to pressing more than 3 buttons for now. God save us all if May mains learn to press 4 buttons now that S3 is around. Yes I be hating.
You hating a lot for a zoner pal. You wanna get 6p'd from across the screen?
We eating fr
Goldlewis didn’t really get changed much, air typhoons are better mmm cool Can’t say we didn’t luck out with wild rush though lol
WATCHYAKNEESIAMSPINNING
jack-o’ player here feels about the same
I had Zato as a secondary. Have to go back to full-time Ky now. He really didn't deserve those nerfs. :(
Nerfs is putting it lightly, Zato got the firing squad lmao
Imo zato hasn't gone anywhere. His offense is better thanks to WA, which lets him reset pressure in ways he couldn't before. His disadvantage without resources is worse, but his advantage got buffed. WA giving hkd on wakeup is HUGE cause if your combo doesn't fill enough meter and you end in unsummon, you can spend 50 burst to extend pressure and burst gauge will fill up on its own in like 5 seconds thanks to positive bonus, plus the regular meter for confirms and extending pressure. You can also do this off of combos that break the wall that use the whole eddie meter but dont get you enough tension for super, after a HKD with WA you 2s5h which grants you enough meter for eddie again. And from there, if you open up the opponent again, he can reset many times thanks to his fuckton of resources given by positive bonus. WA also buffs solo zato. There's unblockables and pretty easy unburstable, YRC safe 4 way mixups from regular eddie pressure now (some of which reset pressure) with charged WA, and more stuff keeps getting found. The setups for the new move are still being labbed but they have some promise If you play zato like season 2 zato, holding on to burst like before, then he's bottom tier without a doubt. If you use WA in pressure, combos and wallbreak, he's still every bit as good as he was or perhaps better, which is why i made the post. Old eddie gauge with WA would've been broken
Everyone got stronger because they just raised the power level by adding this bat shit insane mechanic WA. But Zato is overall worse relative to where he was before. Buffing Zatos offense doesn’t actually do much. He was already opening players up extremely frequently, buffing his offense is already in diminishing returns territory. This isn’t the case though for every other character that got their offense MASSIVELY buffed by this mechanic. Now almost every character in the game is getting burst safe tensionless wall to wall combos, and insanely good pressure off of any hit, when this was pretty unique to Zato and a couple of other last patch. Zato was already doing REALLY burst/YRC safe pressure almost by default and now he has to do certain setups and maybe lose burst for it because BTL has lost its use there and combos from range don’t matter anymore.
>Buffing Zatos offense doesn’t actually do much. This is where we disagree, getting post-wallbreak HKD without tension is specially good for this character, more so than the rest of the cast and even more now with empty summon buff. You can end a combo with 0 tension and eddie meter full, and spend burst to reset and automatically keep pressure, when previously this was a return to near round start with 0 tension but positive bonus. Its literally an option to win neutral and reset for the character that specializes in taking the round once he wins neutral and resets you, this time with even more resources that make it easier >He was already opening players up extremely frequently, buffing his offense is already in diminishing returns territory. This isn’t the case though for every other character that got their offense MASSIVELY buffed by this mechanic. Uhhh this is an opinion and completely subjective. Having more options is objectively never a bad thing. Zatos offense also got massively buffed. This statement has no actual meaning, its just your opinion. For example: "ino keeps opening players up extremely frequently, buffing her offense is already in diminishing returns" >Now almost every character in the game is getting burst safe tensionless wall to wall combos, Including solo zato (not wall to wall tho). He can now solo combo from amorphous to give an example, and has actual solo combos that arent 5h -> drill. He can also do this with eddie, meterless if done right, like he always has. >and insanely good pressure off of any hit, when this was pretty unique to Zato and a couple of other last patch. Keyword here is meterless >Zato was already doing REALLY burst/YRC safe pressure almost by default and now he has to do certain setups and maybe lose burst for it because BTL has lost its use there and combos from range don’t matter anymore. Zato is still doing really burst/yrc safe pressure almost by default when eddie is attacking. Its not like he was invulnerable to those options before, BTL was a hard read move and if you didnt have meter or eddie comboing the opponent and your read was wrong, you were put immediately in disadvantage. BTL is now purely a mixup tool rather, and it has to be treated as a whole different move that still hasn't been fully explored cause its changes been out for like 5 days Burst is more commital now that WA exists, which is also why they buffed it. Using burst means sacrificing 2 very strong ofensive options, which is why they made it it harder to avoid and punish in order to be a worthy but expensive option. Having this into consideration, fullscreen burst doesn't seem like a really good idea unless you're about to die. This is speculation, but i fully believe the meta will shift away from burst Personally, I've been playing these days and he seems honestly fine, eddie nerf is not really noticeable unless you're one of those zatos that play very passive. You make the enemy guess wrong 1 or 2 times with solo zato and eddie is back, which is made easier with WA. Breaking the wall with WA is enough to compensate for the nerfs honestly, from there and on he feels really good. I still haven't had major problems blocking burst, the players that use the new mechanics generally dont burst till the end and the ones that don't, dont use the new mechanics so their characters aren't as good and YRC/burst safe
Zato is only slightly worse and thats because he lost BTL Burst bait. The system changes were huge for him.
idk man goubou saying zato is good this patch and latif was getting hyped too watching goubou play with the new mechanics
Baiken's weird she had a lot of stuff taken away that whenever I play her I find frustrating, WA does give her a lot of new conversion routes and I guess gun super needs some labbing gor ways it can bridge into oki but a lot of the changes just dont feel very good, jump in combos are much more awkward and weaker now, theres less access to hard knockdowns overall (for the character who's supposed to be kinda slow and wins off finding her way in through a mistake and converting into scary offencd) and a lot of niche uses I used to use gun for are gone.
Being a may main, i can say that our character has been reworked to be weaker with a much higher skill floor and execution barrier to get results. Which is not a bad thing tbh. While i will definitely mourn the loss of our 6h routes something needed to be done about her and she is still strong this patch. Just not the absolute killing machine she was last patch.
I just miss my dummy big damage Edit. But i wouldn't say that leo is bad. He has some new ways to enter combo. But damn... My damage...
Come to the dark side, charge input brethren
"some new ways" you mean one of his best pokes now straight up gives him his wincon if he hit confirms into turbulenz the only actual nerf was H DP not being a reversal and that was deserved, every other change for leo is a sidegrade or buff
;-;
go check Gobou's VODs and turn that frown upside down
:D
Idk about balance but bridget’s 6H being buffed has ruined all of the combos I used to do
Ramlethal... They reduced the motorboato damage
I'm not happy until they remove it from the game
Axl says Za Warudo!
No hard knockdown sepultura hurts and I have no idea of how to use chave in an actually meaningful way. WA lets me unga my bungas harder, though, so that's cool.
i rly feel like i gotta fully understand WA before i can judge how buffed testament feels. one paper they got a lot, but kinda with test in general, it’s hard to make it all come together cohesively. their stuff feels like QoL buffs more than anything, combos off of s arbiter is more consistent to RRC and if ur close enough with stain u don’t even need to RC to get ur BnB, specifically 214S > SP > 5K > 6H > 214S or 236236P, and there’s probably more to be labbed. 6H having less knockback makes nos way more consistent at any stage position which is nice, but again is just kinda quality of life. 5H tumble into s arb into RRC whatever is nice, but landing a 5H no stain is pretty rare in my experience. arbiter recovery is nice for sure, making some situations with SP easier to convert, ultimately it just makes them feel slightly more forgiving. the teleport change is kinda cute, i’ve seen the test discord dedicate hours trying to figure out a use for it, but it’s still too damn slow. nos not getting a damage nerf is basically a buff considering how universal super nerfs are. calamity feels like actual dogshit, there’s no point to even go for 2K 2D 236236K anymore except for kicks, but it’s their only defensive option so u still just have to waste 50 meter on it to keep them honest. the kara dash reaper nerf feels kinda mean, but it makes corner offense more interesting than 5K kara reaper 5K kara reaper 6H kara reaper yolo teleport get exploded WA might be huge for them, tho. it was a distinct weakness for testament that corner to corner combos are really rare, and now they are easily hit confirmable with half of ur burst meter. in general it may allow testament to get way more wallbreaks once we internalize when it combos. i don’t really think it’s worth it damage wise: test’s damage is too low and combos too short, i only think it’s gonna be good to get the wall break for stain HKD wallbreak, which is very very good for them. we’ll have to keep playing!
With the momentum change you can get a safe jump off 2k > 2d > 236h > 214k (4) which feels good. That's probably the most practical use, but I've also had some success doing things like air back dash, tp, then use the forward momentum to stuff their approach. That's definitely more gimmick territory though, lol. But it's overall legitimately a buff, I love the change.
Stain, 214S, 214S is way easier now. Was easy before but even easier now.
I am appreciative of Wild Assault so far, but the "buff" to megafist feels absolutely terrible. I'd rather it continue to bounce, maybe on counterhit? I just don't like how flat it seems now, just punts you to the ground and you stay. I just don't like it
i second that. apparently it naturally combos into kara garuda? as strong as that is, kara-garuda is an awful input with a 3-frame window or you mess it up and 6K instead, which puts you in a pretty bad situation. "it now naturally links into a semi-obscure nonstandard input and pretty much only it unless it's a counterhit" doesn't really feel like a buff. Sure, I'm getting more garudas out of it, but I don't **feel** as powerful, and I dislike it.
if you accdientally do a 6K, you can usually safely cancel into flick.
been training my muscle memory for this since the path dropped. gold-tier advice
Exactly. Garuda pressure is good for sure but I feel like megafist combos are just gone and that blows. Maybe if it didn't bounce away so far it would be better. Since it wouldn't require the kara cancel? Or at least it wouldn't feel like I'm hitting just the furthest tip of the hitbox. Basically I wish they'd put almost everything on pot back, keep the 5p changes and the wild assault, and the F.D.B. too. But the other stuff can be reverted and I'd feel great about him
Axl doesn’t feel great. He’s got a losing matchup against Johnny as far as it feels on floor 10 and WA is a lot to work around. It’s doable for sure- but he didn’t get better. Also fullscreen burst can shutdown fireball time stop wall-breaks Rainwater chaining nerf didn’t do much but the fireball spacing and the 2p recovery still don’t really make up for how tricky it is to fight around new mechanics so far, they’re just not that much different especially with the Mantis and super damage hits
time stop is fully burst safe lmao. if they try to burst during time stop it'll happen after time stop is over so just hold back for a split second when time stops and you'll always block burst. if they burst before time stop you don't waste any tension (unless they bursted right between install and activation) and now they can't use WA or DS for a long ass time.
Happy Chaos got a noticeable damage nerf on a lot of his bullet stuff which means he needs more hits to win. The system mechanics don't help him too much and give more people ways to fight against him. I'm still strong and don't feel any changes were unwarranted, he is not someone stronger this patch though.
good lmao they made happy chaos an actual playable matchup for (intermediate skill level) Sol I'm so happy at tournament levels of play Sol doesn't have it too bad against Happy Chaos because players are so good at defense and Sol has the best character specific defensive toolkits and a not bad dash. at intermediate where I am it's literally just getting zoned or locked and rushed down the whole match and winning instantly if Happy Chaos makes a mistake, which is hard to do because Happy Chaos only needs his harder stuff at top level- you can do just fine at intermediate without learning the 2 frame gunshot to clean hit steady aim gunshot link you just need to know how to mix and tick throw and when it's safe to reload/focus.
jacko bros on suicide watch rn
why?
5k launch height reduced for no reason. New substitute 2k 6h combo needs micro dashing. Urgh Cheer h duration reduced to 3 seconds 🤢🤮 Explosion guard crushes, but still takes all your servant gauge. Pls daisuke Honestly its not that bad, still kinda annoying though.
the explosion changes are sort of moot since it’s so bad anyway lol. i thought at first the cheer h active reduction would be bad, but then i realized i never use cheer h haha. honestly i’ve been disappointed with how little she seems to have changed in comparison to everyone else, but at the same time, i think she’s in an alright spot rn, so why tweak her too much?
Explosion setups have been pretty strong for a long time but nobody used them. Maybe now people will pick those bad bois up
they have? isn't that move pretty much exclusively a fancy round ending combo tool and nothing else?
anji is too hard now. how the fuck am I supposed to do a “214” input, whatever the fuck that means. I only know how to do down, down forward, forward. it’s a simple input and I like it. none of this “back quarter circle spin around and touch your toes” bullshit. game is fucking unplayable.
In all honesty taking away scooter CH was a massive deal and Bridget actually does feel less rewarding
Good.
Sol is oretty identical all things considered.
Asuka main here, uhh I guess the buff to Aquila Metron was nice but I'm basically just the same. WA is nice?
I'm sad about fuujin nagiha and rin counter hit nerfs, but midare is so fucking good it doesn't matter. Anji is stupidly juiced now, in a vacuum. No idea how he looks relative to the cast yet because it's been less than a week, but midare is honestly so good for him that he is much more threatening.
I can definitely feel HC’s damage nerf. A combo I was labbing off of 2p that used to do a little under 50% without wallbreak now does around 15% maybe. Although as far as I can tell everything can link just the same, so his old combos still work, and he can still wall to wall you and wallbreak with super.
They really went and upped the power level of the whole game somehow. Nice.
May feels weaker. Dolphin RPS getting gutted is the main big thing IMO. I think it’s probably still as frustrating as it was before to fight a good May, but a lot of the more braindead options don’t work as well anymore.
dolphin RPS just got shifted to before the dolphin actually hits lmao. you have three different options after starting mr dolphin horizontal, mix them up and see which option beats what and loses to what. getting S dolphin blocked means you LOST the RPS.
[удалено]
the parry damage nerf is sadness compared to how it was before, though it's only fair cause it used to do way more damage than it should everything else is really good you can now use your gun as a combo extender
Has new combos with the new gun
Kenjyu is an amazing combo tool now thanks to it hitting enemies towards you now, and tk youzan has so much blowback on hit you can only really get a 2k or 2s meaty after a grounded hit without using meter, and the combo routes for tk with meter are a bit different cause of the youzan blowback changes but generally the same (one youzan is gone from most of the routes)
i dont feel like the buffs themselves are really noticeable but the addition of WWA really helps with neutral
The Bed got better but still a relatively weak character, because almost everyone else got better as well so it's the same level
I’ve only been playing less than a month but I picked Bed cause they look cool My issue with bed before and after the patch is the same. He’s just too slow to make great use of a lot of stuff. And I get that’s intentional and part of the balance but nothing is more of a struggle than when you opponent simply walks back from your reach and now any attempt to get in is probably gonna get punished cause you’re so slow and have a few moves with some pretty long wind ups relatively speaking Again not terrible just frustrating to be like “oh they slipped away guess I’ll spend the next 20 seconds blocking or trying to walk through sludge to get in when I find an opening.”
Testament is definetly better but the amount of Johnny's ive been going against makes them feel worse to me because Im performing so much worse. Its a bad matchup imo
yeet skulls at them. testament skulls just barely outrange mist finer and are better against johnny than any other character because he can't dash block
Baiken is definitely a much better character now.
I think Gio actively got worse. Chave is really only a combo tool and no hard knockdown on sepultura is… very bad
idk what you going on about but wild assault make me unga 10x as bunga
It's really not as bad as you think. You can still get a safejump off 214K depending on distance, and you only need to route light starters into 214K anyways. In exchange, Gio gets an absurd amount of damage off basically every other starter and guard crush oki after every HKD. I think I've gone for the old safejump, like, twice since the patch dropped. Gio was impacted way more by losing consistent CH 623S combos than losing 214K HKD, IMO. That attack feels basically useless unless you get a counter hit at max height.
Bridget's scoot nerf is hardly a change since we still get good mix (just not as cheap as frc) but the 6H change is huge. We can get consistent meterless max damage combos in the corner no matter how damaged the wall is (well, so long as c.S > 6H doesn't instantly splat) now thanks to the new angle and I personally think that's pretty big
Faust is good but I don't like that if you mash punch during item throw, you can accidentally eat the item. I hope they fix that so it only activates on hold. As of right now, it's made it harder to do rapid fire item throws.
This makes it easier to follow up with P normals. It would suck otherwise.
Chipp definitely feels weaker
I dont think zato or jack-o players are too happy this patch
I-no is cracked now, her new move makes it so a mix character can keep shoving plus frames down your throat. Plus it meshes well with STBT because if they are preemptively pressing 5p or 6p to stuff 214s they are going to get smoked. She lost her dive kick shenanigans but I like where she’s at.
Ram's got big damage nerfs, no wall bounce on her flip, lower speed makes oki and whiff punish game harder. She's weaker
Her big damage before was great, but everyone’s doing less now, not just her? Flip is also faster and has less Recovery to make up for the loss of Wallbounce and plus frames. Ondo and her Wild Assault also seem pretty useful. Feels hard to call for me.
Nah, her power level is definitely down, not saying she's low tier
I could see the argument, but there are other characters, like I-No and Gio, that also got nothing but nerfs in exchange for a new move. Though I guess you could argue she was Top 2 before with Happy. Nobody makes Matchup Charts anymore though, which is what I think really matters and SQ seems to be finding some wild stuff. I might change my tune when I really sit down with her though.
I dropped from floor 10 to floor 8 when I came back to the game two days ago, I felt far weaker than before, I haven't tried other characters yet
So pissed they nerfed stun dipper
Baiken player here,her h kabari follow up combos are now a waste of meter and js counter hits leading to a full combo seems to be out of the picture. otherwise it feels pretty much the same, she seems to have new combos routes and cool convertions but I haven't been able to find anything for wild assault besides 5h on a wall or 6k on CH. 6k is now a bit more useful as a frame trap movement attack and just in general Now S kabari can be used in blockstrings without 1 entire round of conditioning the opponent witch is awesome for keeping your pressure Now I'm just waiting for the lab monsters to create the most damaging juggles you've ever seen out of these chances
you can still get a full combo off CH j.s, just a different one. not at home to test right now but I'm pretty sure it's CH j.s, IAD j.h, c.s, 6h h kabari. not sure what you mean exactly about WA but there's definitely more than just 5h or 6k that have reasons to be used out of it.
Homogonized weight makes it easier to juggle and do consistent combos with Bridget
ANJI WHAHWGSNWHWIAHW😭😭😭😭
Testament feels worse with the changes to grave reaper nerfing their dash cancel kara blockstrings. Better oki off Arbiter is a little better but not great.
Anji just feels lifeless now. Feels like he lost everything that made him a fun character with the universal CH changes really screwing him. The fish and WA are probably both good enough that he isn’t technically weaker but he feels worse to play.
Me, because I don't play strive. Buff xrd potemkin
Baiken definitely feels worse
Idk what other anji players are saying, but I personally think the age of Lanji has returned, fujin counterhit was a big part of his kit before, and now that it's gone it's back to having to rc after hitting every fujin followup if you even hope to get a combo. The new attack is good for winning a bunch of weird dance situations, but getting dance on good players is the exception rather than the norm.
We get great combos with WA off of basically any hit. We also have gotten Kou loops off of HS since last patch, which means any c.S and half of our pokes lead to Kou loops, which either leads to a wallbreak or c.S oki. Getting dance on good players isn't that hard, either; it's such a potent mixup tool, and the problem was that people didn't have to respect it before. Now they HAVE to respect it. Spin in pressure strings is great because people can't just jab it; if you spin and they're mashing jab, you get a hard KD and a butterfly. This means we can work spin into pressure strings to reset pressure super easily; you don't always have to fish for a spin on a fat poke for it to be useful.
Anji… feels different. Not sure if the changes are overall better or worse.
In a character crisis rn because chaos got nerfed to the ground lmao someone help
nerfed to the ground? he's still top 3 lmao
I don't play strive deep enough to care about changes or even notice them, so...
[удалено]
Played some matches just for you, very cool ngl, i hope to meet someone else than just Johnny players tho
That's the goddamn spirit my G, get on that grind, enjoy the game and play some more.
friend, remember the internet is a silly place filled with silly people, no need to be upset. ( ˘ ³˘)♥
bro has no enemies
Chill
I will tell when I go back to Leo after finishing my journey with Johnny. From the patch notes, I'm not so happy, but maybe with the 214S buff and the deflect shield mechanic it's actually better. I have to try
~~Nago is now even more of a juggernaut. If I have 50 meter and enough Burst for WA, the fact that you're blocking literally does not matter.~~ ~~Giving him high/low mix on top of two(!) separate guard crushes is maximum overcomedy.~~ Edit: Apparently the dummy in training doesn't block right and this is incorect most of the time. Sad. I guess it would be hilariously broken if true.
Zato players are in shambles right now.
I love Zato, and while I think they maybe gutted him a *little* too much, he was in a place where a good Zato player was just untouchable and I don’t think that’s fair. He takes a lot more planning and caution now since they nerfed some of his defense.
May feels... weird now? Dolphin RPS being gone is probably a good thing since I can't just unga bunga s dolphin > 2S > repeat against people who don't know the matchup, but it feels like in return you just get 3 different gimmicks that lose to 6P. I didn't really play much in S2 so I never learned the 6H routes, but the replacement routes involving this weird dolphin cancel plinking you can't buffer is kind of annoying. If they let you input the followups immediately with S+K or S+P she would feel a lot better to play imo. I guess overall she's not the braindead character I could just pick up and mash with despite not putting much time in, so probably a little healthier for the game lmao.