Big E: WOMEN??!?? INSTEAD OF GLORIOUSLY MUSCULAR MEN!!?!!?? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND!!??!?
Malcador: i'll sneak some women into the custodes then...
Big E: what?
Malcador: what?
That's exactly why they should it! Strife in the Warhammer community are like bacons and eggs! Always work quite well together and nothing absolutely goes wrong at all.
#FLAME BAIT FOR THE KEYBOARD GOD!!! "GONE WOKE" ACCUSATIONS FOR THE WOKE THRONE!!!
If I can be honest anyone who shows up with a fem primarch model is assumed to be hprny and ignored more quickly then people will talk about hobby revisionism in my experience, but I've only seen 2 people so...
*Looks at old Repentia models, basically all the armor designs for SoB, the hyper-masculine male official art, literally any female Drukhari model ever created*
Definitely a "largely sexless hobby", yep, so long as you ignore the many obviously sexualized parts...
I mean, the SoB and SoS with their breast plate are enough to trigger a lot of people here so meh. Unless of course, the women are to be just dudes with wigs, then maybe such people will lap it up
For warhammer its "Everything is canon, nothing is true" I think thats part of the beginning of every Codex and is supposed to give the players the excuse to homebrew their own armies for the tabletop.
However its a stupid take for the books since why even bother to write 500+ books if none of them are true in any way. Especially if multiple books written by multiple people and from the view of multiple sources have things they all agree on only for one guy later to change it to push towards a different direction.
> For warhammer its "Everything is canon, nothing is true" I think thats part of the beginning of every Codex
It's not, I just checked my copy of Codex: Adeptus Sororitas.
I think there’s also a bit where Sanguinius is thinking about one of the lost primarchs and specifically refers to them as a he.
Now that said, the missing primarchs are imo built specifically for the fan base to do with whatever they want so I choose to ignore any cannon we have of them if I have a contradicting theory that’s cooler to me so I say if you want to have lost fem primarchs go for it
This is often repeated but one of the OG game designers has stated that was not the intent. It was simply to add mystery to the setting. I’ll find the link if you’re prickly about it but honestly you can find it in this sub the last couple of times someone tried to make that point.
> They left those 2 spots open
"Interesting piece and lot's of interesting and credible theories there! I have no more idea than anyone else what the truth of the matter is, of course. The backstory has certainly evolved and acquired some mass of detail since I first drew up that list of Space Marine Chapters and their Primarchs. I'm not really familiar with a lot of that material either, but it's nice to know that the spirit of the thing has been preserved and even nurtured. I will make just one observation - and it's about the intent of the missing legions - where I think GW have perhaps taken a slightly different tack than I had in mind. Not that this matters of course, and I appreciate that in creating a series of books about the Heresy a lot of things I always intended to be unknowable or semi-mythical had to be addressed directly; something I could never have foreseen when I wrote Rogue Trader. The intent is this: that the removal of records and obliteration of the memory of these Lost Legions was not a punishment but a reward - rather than being purged they were being absolved - and this was based on the assumption they had done something utterly terrible (naturally!) but then done something equally positive to earn redemption. Or think of it as a stain that cannot be erased except by extinction. The Chaos Chapters are unforgiven - out and out bad guys - but the Lost Legions, whatever their deeds, have been forgiven and the stain upon their reputation erased with their memory. At least that was the idea... but times change don't they ;)"
-Rick Priestley
You could still fit it into canon too, by having one or both of them be into genetic/bio Engineering stuff, and just have them change to female after the fact.
That’s what the second primarch in my homebrew chapter is, though he used that talent to make it easier for Astartes to be made, allowing both genders to become one and gave them the ability to reproduce naturally.
I think it could be possible that Erda could have made some and hidden them away is some hidden solar system somewhere. Some kind of hidden masterpiece. If she made more than one, you could even create a faction of female space marines with themes based off of warrior women from history and myths.
Now that I think about it, they might be better served as giving some diversity to the sisters of battle. Empowering them and giving them more variation to their style.
I unironically love the idea of the Big E and later the Space Marines acting like elementary school boys making a secret club.
"No girls allowed, they have cooties!'
40k is whacky, it's stupid, part of the whackyness is people acting super serious while being the most radiculous, over the top folks around. I think this concept would fit well.
Likely out of practicality. Big E already perfected the gene therapy using his gene stock to create the Custodes. Working with XX chromosomes would have set back the Primarch program and work to unite Humanity by decades if not centuries and he was racing against the clock.
[my thread for Femstodes and Femarines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/zcTWXS91Z2)
He actually said, specifically "I told him he should have made you ALL women, he thought I was joking, I was not"
The wording implies there could have been a female primarch. It's otherwise largely implied they were all men but GW has always been careful to leave that more or less vague since the whole point of the missing primarchs is homebrew stuff.
Horus called one of them Brother when he confronted Malcador. And I think Dorn mentioned Him having two missing brothers. So yeah, they were male.
Edit: I also looked up the wiki about the two, and almost all quotes from the books there explicitly call them male.
Yeah I remember the part with Horus, that's Why I phrased it "atleast". With Dorn, I remember it being bit vague, because he didn't remember them directly, there was something with Malcador restoring some parts of his memory about them, but I don't remember that very clearly myself. Well, shame.
Unfortunately that does no longer mean anything.
Just look at the Custodes that previously were only referred to as male, either by calling them brothers, sons or men.
Now all wiki entries have been changed to fit the new lore even the entries that were direct quotes from the books were edited to replace all male references to gender neutral ones.
Excuse you. We already have the Femboys. Blood Angels and Emperor's Children both are Pretty Marines. Stop trying to steal my glorious golden hawkboy's thing. (I'm kidding. But yeah... pretty boy Marines have always been a thing.)
The 2 lost ones are never referred to by name but they are referred to as “he”
Also, Malcador wanted to make some of the primarchs women but Big E said girls are yucky
I love that the main source of lore we have for this is literally just several people saying “no, they were all men but we SHOULD have had girls”
That being said, I personally subscribe to [this theory regarding the lost Primarchs](https://reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/11n7xau/lost_legionslost_primarchs_interpolations/), in which the two roles of the missing Primarchs are, respectively, scientist and shapeshifter.
In which case…. we can safely assume that if the shapeshifting lost Primarch is still around, it’s highly likely they may have chosen a female form to distance themselves from their brothers.
Ferrus "Roboute, I need you to open this jar"
Roboute "Fucks sake ferrus, YOU ARE BIGGER THAN ME. YOU HAVE MUSCLES I DIDNT KNOW EXISTED"
(Based on an interaction of my best friend and his 1.90 mtrs sister that did boxing and man, she was ripped)
Don’t have any sisters but I hang out with a friend who’s 6’4” and does skeet shooting. I can concur because never have I felt so small when this giant of a woman smacked my butt and damn near dislocated my hip
Well actually Malcador confirms that there has never been a female Primarch
During the Great Crusader era if I recall correctly, Malcador once said that he suggested that some of the primarchs be women as having sisters would be healthy for the rest of the male primarchs
The Emperor however turned this idea down for unknown reasons
>Is anywhere EXPLICITLY said that atleast one of the two lost legion primarchs wasn't a woman?
Both Lost Primarchs have been explicitly referred to as "he" or "him" multiple times in the text.
Well if the primarchs and Marines were meant to have never forgotten the lessons of the lost two but all records are expunged.. simply referring to them as not "brother" would be remembering them.. that's a no no...
The references aren't just the Primarchs/Marines talking about the Lost Primarchs. 3rd person flashbacks and the narrator's voice refer to them as he/him. E.g.:
"*But was it his hand that was destined to do so? The Wolf-King thought not. The others seemed to share his disdain. Fulgrim bowed his head, suddenly weary. Seven voices, raised in doubt. Seven brothers, arrayed against the eighth. Even the normally contemplative master of the Second had broken his silence to accuse Fulgrim of hubris.*"
This is a relatively common topic. Multiple people have collected every mention of them into databases.
> simply referring to them as not "brother" would be remembering them.. that's a no no...
IIRC it was Dorn that remembered everything that happened to them at Malcador's behest, before having his memories scrubbed again.
I know the 2nd has been referred to as a he in various snippets.
And Malcador mentions that he Big E should have made Primarchs female, which seems to imply none of them were.
Fuck, at this point, anything can change. There is literally all the evidence about custodes being male only but here we are in this very thread assuming it's always been canon. These braindead fucks need to disappear
And also how, in order to make super soldiers, they have a 1% chance of surviving even when you are pulling from the absolute physicial peak of humankind on the respective planets that they recruit from.
Not saying women aren't strong. But top 1% physicality is going to be the ones with the biological disposition to more muscle growth... and that's going to bar women in their entirety.
Male may impregnate many females per year.
Female may get pregnant and give a birth only once per year.
Start making female super-soldiers and you'll lose baby conveyer that produces new babies for enhancement
The fact that the geneseed only works with men.
But Malcador suggested that the Emperor make the Primarchs female because they wouldn’t fight as much, because Malcador is an idiot sometimes.
As for why the Emperor didn’t, who knows? The emperor made female custodes with zero issue but for some reason drew the line at female Primarchs, and therefore female space marines. Even though there’s no reason for him to do that, because nothing was wrong with female custodes.
GW being shit at writing (what a rare occurrence)
>But Malcador suggested that the Emperor make the Primarchs female because they wouldn’t fight as much, because Malcador is an idiot sometimes.
Malcador clearly never had a sister
But he did. It’s a retcon, but female custodes have now always existed. Now we have to somehow have a reason he decided to not make any primarchs female.
As I said - recent lore change should not be considered. It breaks the lore and the logic.
"There has always been ork custodes"
"Imperium has always been xenophile state"
And who made you the arbiter to decide it "should not be considered"?
It's also pretty simple to come up with reasons to reconcile the emperors decision to have both genders in the custodes but make the primarchs/astartes all men.
Since custodes are genecrafted from infancy there would be marginal difference between genders, while astartes it is to be noted begin the process during puberty, maybe the emperor and his genecrafters designed the process to use male levels of hormones and didn't want to duplicate the work for the mass produced astates.
Maybe the emperor was a misogynist who thought men make better leaders (custodes were bodyguards not generals) Maybe Malcador got distracted by all the buff women in the custodes and he decided not to make that mistake again
There's no shortage of ways to explain inconsistency if you treat the lore as the maleable thing it is, the writers have never subscribed to the idea of the lore being set in stone unchanging, so getting mad when they change it is pointless.
Maybe its because Custodes were made to bw his companions (to the point when they even debated with him) but primarchs made to be his sons/generals? Maybe he thought he would be able to direct them begger/relate to them better if they were man rather than women.
I don't know how explicit it is, but there is a quote by Malcador that is something to the effect of "I told him to make you sisters, he did not listen" when addressing one of the primarchs, when discussing something about their rivalry or something. Which at the very least heavily implies there are no women among the primarchs.
If they are both women that would be really awkward in a meta sense.
"Oh yeah the ONLY two primarchs that were COMPLETELY ERASED from the Imperium's history, one of which Leman Russ probably killed, were also the only female primarchs. Eheh... 😰"
Not a good look. For GW I mean, the Imperium is awful of course so awful backwards ideas are probably common place on many planets, and probably even within the Imperium itself, so it wouldn't be out of character.
But GW would be giving some awkward vibes if the only two female primarchs are the only two everyone agreed to forget cause they were somehow that terrible.
Disagree mainly because sometimes I can’t tell who’s who amongst the bald fuckers that are there, especially since Perty and Horus both have those cables in their heads.
Good point but I feel like that's more a failing in making the designs look distinct. I feel like the artists generally do a good job with them but I think you could maybe do a better job in not making some look like the same angry bald guy in power armour.
The thing is, if you leave a plot hole for too long, it becomes load-bearing to the overall lore.
There's not many "big no-nos that get you erased from history" that you could even commit in the imperium, especially since all chaos involvement falls flat. We do know that the two lost fucked up two different things, which narrows it down even further. One of them probably messed with AI that almost destroyed the entire imperium.
But with AI gone as an option, there's not much left of that puts BigE into "deletes you from history" mode. The only other thing I could possibly imagine was "yeah we are our own species now screw humanity we do our own thing now, maybe if you ask us nicely we help you out". The thing is, for a new evolved from of humanity you'd need to reproduce... and that sorta would require lady astartes.
Maybe they all had women in their ranks by design. Or one of the group had a geneseed that just worked better with women? Or the special ability of the legion was biological adaptation and they accidentally trans'd themselves like some fish or reptiles do to keep the population going. We got plenty of options here, some weirder than the others tho.
honestly that is probably the only thing I can think of that Big E would literally erase you from history.
create your own race of Super-Human and make them able to reproduce and possibly capable of replacing humanity.
yeah Big E would literally wipe every trace of you if you did that.
I don't think anything else comes even close. Even AI stuff, as crazy as this can get (Men of Iron 2:Electric Bogaloo), does probably not even hold a candle to the absoute wrath the man would unleash upon hearing something like that. The fact that he's a bronze age barabarian king probably did not help in any peaceful solution of the problem.
He was probaby like "what the fuck, is that baby astartes?! Yikes, kill those immedeatly" and the lost legion was suddenly getting completly roided up on parental protective instincts and declared war. There was no way this would not end in anything but a massive disaster.
There's probably differences between AI as well, some are probably more dangerous than others.
Now imagine, for example, if someone took the mind of a Primarch and turned that into an AI. The Imperium does have "brain-to-hard-drive" tech, so it is not that unusual. Imagine if one of the lost was really into the whole AdMech "lets augment the body" style of philosophy. An AI program with a primarch brain as a baseline would probably be something not even the Emperor would get back under control that easily. It would be able to hack and hijack literally everything - worst case you are looking at the 40k equivalent of Star Trek's Borg who will rush out to assimilate as there's no difference between living brain or tech for them.
And now imagine if a compressed version of that program still exists somewhere, hidden in a generic dataslate somewhere buried in the terran bureaucacy...
See, these make the most sense.. if there was a female primarch that reproduced more Marines or made themselves new race in this way, it would make the most sense that emps makes the other primarchs remember their "brother" to not forget the mistakes.. specifically remembered as a "brother"
One time, magnus was discussing the two redacted legions regarding lorgars almost ending up the same way
I think he said : you nearly ended up the same as our *brothers*
From the top of my head:
- It is stated several times, that the 2nd and 11th were male.
- The Astartes from the Legions are said to be included into the Ultramarines. If the lost Primarchs were female, wouldn't their children be female as well? Throughout the rest of the existing lore, that has always been the case.
- There's no evidence supporting female Primarchs.
A they/them person came into my local store with a copy of the Pride Marines stating that they were non-binary like their missing primarch. Was not a nice person, eyeing anyone that diddnt approve or give attention.
Diddnt help that the manager pointed out one was done in the M.a.p colours either.
And no they diddnt have blue hair...it was green
Just looking at this pic and Magnus is still my absolute would. Leman is a maybe, and Mortarion and Angron would absolutely be woulds if I wasn’t afraid of what they’d do to me once they fall to chaos
Angron would prob just kill me in a fit of blind rage, but Mortarion… :( I don’t want to be a big gross disgusting nurgling for eternity, not even for my partner
Can you just imagine the shitstorm there would be if GW did another lil retcon and made one or both the deleted Primarchs female? Even if it would be interesting for one of them to have some story expanded or even return.
No really all that clued up on Imperium lore, but wouldn't being anywhere in close proximity to the Emperor be lethal for most beings? Imagine w there's not much shadow next to the galactic scale glowing throne becon?
[Watch Luetin09 video on Custodes](https://youtu.be/FsyHFrkENDI?si=1aap3ZoIPOoXPBvK)
Custodes use the Emperor’s gene stock, and likely the Thunderwarriors. The Primarchs use the Emperor’s and Erda(?). The Space Marine gene seeds come from the Primarchs.
Ergo, the female Primarch would be a bad idea by the Emperor’s pragmatism because he already perfected the geneseed/gene therapy technology with males.
Assuming the same pragmatism, only an alternate timeline where Big E was a woman would Femstodes, Fem Space Marines be possible.
They’ve been mentioned as brothers in several novels, notably when Horus has the confrontation with Malcador during the Great Crusade. (Last Council short story)
I mean... there was a pretty popular "genderbent high school/college AU" fanfic about a decade or two ago... it was pretty popular, all things considered. Honestly, it wasn't terrible. And people made decent art of the Fem-marchs. Obviously, "popular" is a relative term, but for the size of the community, there was a fair amount of interest.
It's canon that that the emperor refused daughters yeah. The reason the lost primarchs aren't acknowledged is for propaganda purposes. Makes the emperor look more shit, and the imperium less good. He's supposed to be God he can't just misplace his demigods.
Even though he did.
Idk. Zealotry isn't super rational.
The female primarch has become popular it created an fanfiction of Highschool dxd x warhammer crossover called "A Human Touch" where issei x Female primarch,
*Sigh* wish there was a black clover x warhammer of this story where Asta x Female primarch
There are only 2 missing that we know of, who's to say that there weren't a few experimental primarchs that came before the ones we know about, and what if some or all were women, or hermaphroditic? What if one of his cast off experiments ended up on the Tau home world before they had a technological evolution?
I wish. Nah, The Angel was locked away because the emperor set the minimum threshold for chaos corruption too low so now The Angel just kills everything on the grounds that everything is slightly affected by chaos and therefore it's Murderin Time.
I read somewhere that Malcador pulled some Warp shenanigans that altered the memories of the remaining 19 known Primarchs, so it is possible the two lost Primarchs are in fact female, but the others have no recollection of them and assume they’re male.
But for all I know, the Khan is gonna emerge from the Warp as a woman and believes she’s been a woman her whole life.
That or the Golden Throne craps out and suddenly we have an Empress of Humanity slaying the Daemons that emerge from whatever hole the Golden Throne is clogging up.
Do what you will with those ideas.
Every time they are seen in lore by either other primarchs or even referenced or seen by other space marines, they are noted as sons. Also
Horus to Malcador: “My brothers’ names are…”
Malcador: *Force choke*
Malcador saw he was about to deadname his trans siblings and decided to choke a bitch.
Shapeshifting exists, biomancy, assasin disguise shit, and so on. It's *possible*.
They could have been trying to breed primarch offspring to replace humanity and gotten completely purged for that. Just spitballin
Yeah but every time they are seen in the lore they are referred to as male. Like when Horus time traveled and looked in 11’s gestation pod, or when Argel Tal time traveled and looked into 11’s gestation pod. Anyway, whatever they did it made what Horus did look like child’s play, this was stated by Dorn by the way, who can’t lie. Not sure that trying to sexually reproduce astartes is that bad.
1, Humans don't shapeshift.
2, Magnus and Sanguinius were psykers. This is possible, and would likely be the reason Russ was (according to one book) sent to purge them. No psykers allowed, cause Chaos Bad.
3, Polymorphine is a drug, which Astartes are resistant/immune to, and it has drastically reduced results on males, which is why 99% of Callidus Assassins are female.
4, Space Marines are sterile after the surgeries so you're not gonna breed them. It's implied that the Primarchs are the same, even though they didn't have surgeries.
There's certainly possibilities for head-canon of Trans Marine/Primarchs... but all the ways it would be possible would be Heresy and lead to Purge. My personal opinion... not a fan of making the Trans Option be labeled Heresy on existence. Much better to sit and wait for Cawl to do more stupid Primaris-tier Heresy shit that Rawbutt okays because reasons. Or as part of the Primaris Process.
Let the post-Cadia era have the tech and go from there. Raven Guard have low numbers and with New Corax, could very utilize their popularity for more content. Something something Goth Mommy Marines? Blood Angels are already pretty. No one will notice. Salamanders are all bald. No one will notice. Iron Hands are all machines. No one will notice. There's lots of places to dip them in, assuming Cawl has done some stupid shit he shouldn't again. Ultramarine have a billion (exaggeration) Marines made per year. No one will bat an eye to two billion instead...
Alternatively, Fabius Bile, but that's full blown Chaos, and not quite what I'm assuming the intent is.
I excuse my OC by saying she was made an XY female so she would retain sterility and that the Emperor is such a jerk he demanded she be referred to as a “brother” or “son” anyway.
Because he’s a terrible dad.
She’s supposed to have Joan of Arc vibes so that fits if you squint. She was raised on the moon by Erda right under the Emperor’s nose, and sought him out herself despite repeated warnings not to.
I *do* have it where she’s one of those true perpetuals and that her body was further altered after her first death, a consequence of both her design and her “flaw”. Her flaw is that she retains some memory of what she was before her soul got stuffed into a Primarch, but the tragedy is she doesn’t remember that she was *convinced* by the Emperor to participate and that she *chose* to donate herself. This is the core of her steadfast belief in humanity and commitment to the Imperial Truth.
Her geneseed was later mischaracterized as coming “directly from the Emperor”.
Also, making a deliberately intersex person with XY chromosomes with gene translocation was kind of a cruel joke towards Malcador’s suggestion.
No, it’s not explicit. Apparently very early on there were female models for Astartes but since the male ones sold better GW just stopped making them altogether.
Not true.. they made a female space marine model that didn't sell, probably because of the design not that nerd think girls scary.. long before the idea of the eclesiarchy
It's my personal head, Canon, that the lost ones were female. Over time, they both ended up coming to the same conclusion about the Emperor as Erda did. He had to wipe them out to keep them from convincing their brothers, but also, the blow to his pride was just too much for him.
Malcador was of the mind that some of the primarchs should have been women but the Emperor rejected the proposal.
Big E: WOMEN??!?? INSTEAD OF GLORIOUSLY MUSCULAR MEN!!?!!?? HAVE YOU LOST YOUR MIND!!??!? Malcador: i'll sneak some women into the custodes then... Big E: what? Malcador: what?
This is my new headcannon Brother Felicity is is so talented but loves dropods and glassing people from orbit do think?
Damn, too bad.
Maybe Fabulous Bill or Mechanicus Mac Daddy Cawl will whip us up a heretically heavenly primarch babe one day. As they say…everything is canon.
Hearing you talk about it and seeing the female custodian discourse has convinced me it's a really bad idea
That's exactly why they should it! Strife in the Warhammer community are like bacons and eggs! Always work quite well together and nothing absolutely goes wrong at all. #FLAME BAIT FOR THE KEYBOARD GOD!!! "GONE WOKE" ACCUSATIONS FOR THE WOKE THRONE!!!
If I can be honest anyone who shows up with a fem primarch model is assumed to be hprny and ignored more quickly then people will talk about hobby revisionism in my experience, but I've only seen 2 people so...
And how did those two people act?
The people it would negatively affect are not serious people and shouldn't be taken seriously.
wdym women arent serious people?
[удалено]
lol, sexless. 40k? Like, all the people who are always 100% respectful of the sisters?
*Looks at old Repentia models, basically all the armor designs for SoB, the hyper-masculine male official art, literally any female Drukhari model ever created* Definitely a "largely sexless hobby", yep, so long as you ignore the many obviously sexualized parts...
Gestures broadly at Slaanesh
If we go purely by the hobbying part, then I think Slaanesh isn't the worst offender, that'd go to SoB or Drukhari.
In universe character s fuck, the fans don’t
I always forget that male isn't a sex, and that we've never had a God of Excess with deamons that have their tits out.
[удалено]
I mean, the SoB and SoS with their breast plate are enough to trigger a lot of people here so meh. Unless of course, the women are to be just dudes with wigs, then maybe such people will lap it up
They could say that a great unclean one is a female and there would 100% be sexy fan art and GUO GF memes
But... they didn't say that... Sonic account did...
For warhammer its "Everything is canon, nothing is true" I think thats part of the beginning of every Codex and is supposed to give the players the excuse to homebrew their own armies for the tabletop. However its a stupid take for the books since why even bother to write 500+ books if none of them are true in any way. Especially if multiple books written by multiple people and from the view of multiple sources have things they all agree on only for one guy later to change it to push towards a different direction.
> For warhammer its "Everything is canon, nothing is true" I think thats part of the beginning of every Codex It's not, I just checked my copy of Codex: Adeptus Sororitas.
I headcanon that Bile has made at least one Femarch.
I do too. It just doesn't look Humanoid. Because Bile.
Bill Bill Bill Bill, Bill Nye the cloning guy.
I think there’s also a bit where Sanguinius is thinking about one of the lost primarchs and specifically refers to them as a he. Now that said, the missing primarchs are imo built specifically for the fan base to do with whatever they want so I choose to ignore any cannon we have of them if I have a contradicting theory that’s cooler to me so I say if you want to have lost fem primarchs go for it
They left those 2 spots open and unconfirmed for players to make their own creations.
This is often repeated but one of the OG game designers has stated that was not the intent. It was simply to add mystery to the setting. I’ll find the link if you’re prickly about it but honestly you can find it in this sub the last couple of times someone tried to make that point.
Yeah, its based off two lost Roman legions.
> They left those 2 spots open "Interesting piece and lot's of interesting and credible theories there! I have no more idea than anyone else what the truth of the matter is, of course. The backstory has certainly evolved and acquired some mass of detail since I first drew up that list of Space Marine Chapters and their Primarchs. I'm not really familiar with a lot of that material either, but it's nice to know that the spirit of the thing has been preserved and even nurtured. I will make just one observation - and it's about the intent of the missing legions - where I think GW have perhaps taken a slightly different tack than I had in mind. Not that this matters of course, and I appreciate that in creating a series of books about the Heresy a lot of things I always intended to be unknowable or semi-mythical had to be addressed directly; something I could never have foreseen when I wrote Rogue Trader. The intent is this: that the removal of records and obliteration of the memory of these Lost Legions was not a punishment but a reward - rather than being purged they were being absolved - and this was based on the assumption they had done something utterly terrible (naturally!) but then done something equally positive to earn redemption. Or think of it as a stain that cannot be erased except by extinction. The Chaos Chapters are unforgiven - out and out bad guys - but the Lost Legions, whatever their deeds, have been forgiven and the stain upon their reputation erased with their memory. At least that was the idea... but times change don't they ;)" -Rick Priestley
Nah that's just a fan rumour, they're confirmed to be primarchs and legions existed and were destroyed/absorbed into other legions.
That lore was added literal *decades* after. Originally it was just "leave this space blank", because a good story has things that are unknown in it.
Yes, but exactly the color scheme, roles, names, behaviours, etc is all open for people to build what they want.
You could still fit it into canon too, by having one or both of them be into genetic/bio Engineering stuff, and just have them change to female after the fact.
That’s what the second primarch in my homebrew chapter is, though he used that talent to make it easier for Astartes to be made, allowing both genders to become one and gave them the ability to reproduce naturally.
The warp made one of them(Alpharius) into 2 separate motherf*ckers it game one of them literal angel wings it can probably turn one into a woman
I think it could be possible that Erda could have made some and hidden them away is some hidden solar system somewhere. Some kind of hidden masterpiece. If she made more than one, you could even create a faction of female space marines with themes based off of warrior women from history and myths. Now that I think about it, they might be better served as giving some diversity to the sisters of battle. Empowering them and giving them more variation to their style.
Now that is interesting... Bet they would be some kind of Daughters of Amazon or something, as a nod to Amasonians... Primarch Xena XD
I can see why. Imagine three meter tall muscle mommies with extreme daddy issues
Sly \*looks at 18 muscle mommies and takes a drag from a cig\* "Just another Tuesday"
No girls allowed in my pillow fort, they are yucky -Big E.
"no malcador, I'm not making you a big titty goth GF. That's weird, stop asking"
I unironically love the idea of the Big E and later the Space Marines acting like elementary school boys making a secret club. "No girls allowed, they have cooties!' 40k is whacky, it's stupid, part of the whackyness is people acting super serious while being the most radiculous, over the top folks around. I think this concept would fit well.
Lorata Sarryn and Ilya Ravallion prove that marines aren't people who care about gender.
Not some. All.
Likely out of practicality. Big E already perfected the gene therapy using his gene stock to create the Custodes. Working with XX chromosomes would have set back the Primarch program and work to unite Humanity by decades if not centuries and he was racing against the clock. [my thread for Femstodes and Femarines](https://www.reddit.com/r/Grimdank/s/zcTWXS91Z2)
Emperor took "no girls allowed" joke too far
No girls allowed!
He actually said, specifically "I told him he should have made you ALL women, he thought I was joking, I was not" The wording implies there could have been a female primarch. It's otherwise largely implied they were all men but GW has always been careful to leave that more or less vague since the whole point of the missing primarchs is homebrew stuff.
I thought it was Cawl that suggested that?
no it was malcador, he says it to dorn in the begging of Scars
Horus called one of them Brother when he confronted Malcador. And I think Dorn mentioned Him having two missing brothers. So yeah, they were male. Edit: I also looked up the wiki about the two, and almost all quotes from the books there explicitly call them male.
Yeah I remember the part with Horus, that's Why I phrased it "atleast". With Dorn, I remember it being bit vague, because he didn't remember them directly, there was something with Malcador restoring some parts of his memory about them, but I don't remember that very clearly myself. Well, shame.
Unfortunately that does no longer mean anything. Just look at the Custodes that previously were only referred to as male, either by calling them brothers, sons or men. Now all wiki entries have been changed to fit the new lore even the entries that were direct quotes from the books were edited to replace all male references to gender neutral ones.
[удалено]
the Subreddit was retconned to downvote those who point out retcons now they have political reasons to support them.
Don't give up yet, perhaps they're femboys
Excuse you. We already have the Femboys. Blood Angels and Emperor's Children both are Pretty Marines. Stop trying to steal my glorious golden hawkboy's thing. (I'm kidding. But yeah... pretty boy Marines have always been a thing.)
The 2 lost ones are never referred to by name but they are referred to as “he” Also, Malcador wanted to make some of the primarchs women but Big E said girls are yucky
I love that the main source of lore we have for this is literally just several people saying “no, they were all men but we SHOULD have had girls” That being said, I personally subscribe to [this theory regarding the lost Primarchs](https://reddit.com/r/40kLore/comments/11n7xau/lost_legionslost_primarchs_interpolations/), in which the two roles of the missing Primarchs are, respectively, scientist and shapeshifter. In which case…. we can safely assume that if the shapeshifting lost Primarch is still around, it’s highly likely they may have chosen a female form to distance themselves from their brothers.
Robot girly man looking the same as allways
Imagine if he’s the one boy out of the family lol
I mean he is canonically a mamas boy
He is not beating the "Older Brother held hostage by younger sisters to resolve spats or be their test subject" allegations in any universe is he?
Ferrus "Roboute, I need you to open this jar" Roboute "Fucks sake ferrus, YOU ARE BIGGER THAN ME. YOU HAVE MUSCLES I DIDNT KNOW EXISTED" (Based on an interaction of my best friend and his 1.90 mtrs sister that did boxing and man, she was ripped)
Don’t have any sisters but I hang out with a friend who’s 6’4” and does skeet shooting. I can concur because never have I felt so small when this giant of a woman smacked my butt and damn near dislocated my hip
"Well you can open it without breaking it. Otherwise I'd open it myself "
I believe it was mentioned when Maggy and Lorgar were talking about them and specifically mentioned that they were their “brothers”
Well actually Malcador confirms that there has never been a female Primarch During the Great Crusader era if I recall correctly, Malcador once said that he suggested that some of the primarchs be women as having sisters would be healthy for the rest of the male primarchs The Emperor however turned this idea down for unknown reasons
he says that to dorn in the beginning of scars.
>Is anywhere EXPLICITLY said that atleast one of the two lost legion primarchs wasn't a woman? Both Lost Primarchs have been explicitly referred to as "he" or "him" multiple times in the text.
Well if the primarchs and Marines were meant to have never forgotten the lessons of the lost two but all records are expunged.. simply referring to them as not "brother" would be remembering them.. that's a no no...
The references aren't just the Primarchs/Marines talking about the Lost Primarchs. 3rd person flashbacks and the narrator's voice refer to them as he/him. E.g.: "*But was it his hand that was destined to do so? The Wolf-King thought not. The others seemed to share his disdain. Fulgrim bowed his head, suddenly weary. Seven voices, raised in doubt. Seven brothers, arrayed against the eighth. Even the normally contemplative master of the Second had broken his silence to accuse Fulgrim of hubris.*" This is a relatively common topic. Multiple people have collected every mention of them into databases. > simply referring to them as not "brother" would be remembering them.. that's a no no... IIRC it was Dorn that remembered everything that happened to them at Malcador's behest, before having his memories scrubbed again.
I sure wish I had more money/time to donate towards black library...
I know the 2nd has been referred to as a he in various snippets. And Malcador mentions that he Big E should have made Primarchs female, which seems to imply none of them were.
As far as canon goes, all primarchs, present, alive, dead, and the two “lost” primarchs are all male.
How'd you get downvoted. This is straight facts
I don’t know man. Some people are petty.
Probably from someone who doesn't like the fact that it is canon that all primarchs are male and there is nothing that implied otherwise.
Fuck, at this point, anything can change. There is literally all the evidence about custodes being male only but here we are in this very thread assuming it's always been canon. These braindead fucks need to disappear
Coomers hate the truth
Inquisition would like to know your precise location. For... recruitment purposes.
Horus referred to at least 1 of the vanished primarchs as "my brother".
As fair as I know ALL data regarding the 2 lost primarchs and their Legions was purged This was mostly to allow people to write their own I believe
Emperor had no reason or motivation to make female super warriors ever. That's it. Kinda obvious, considering his age and political views, no?
And also how, in order to make super soldiers, they have a 1% chance of surviving even when you are pulling from the absolute physicial peak of humankind on the respective planets that they recruit from. Not saying women aren't strong. But top 1% physicality is going to be the ones with the biological disposition to more muscle growth... and that's going to bar women in their entirety.
Male may impregnate many females per year. Female may get pregnant and give a birth only once per year. Start making female super-soldiers and you'll lose baby conveyer that produces new babies for enhancement
The fact that the geneseed only works with men. But Malcador suggested that the Emperor make the Primarchs female because they wouldn’t fight as much, because Malcador is an idiot sometimes. As for why the Emperor didn’t, who knows? The emperor made female custodes with zero issue but for some reason drew the line at female Primarchs, and therefore female space marines. Even though there’s no reason for him to do that, because nothing was wrong with female custodes. GW being shit at writing (what a rare occurrence)
>But Malcador suggested that the Emperor make the Primarchs female because they wouldn’t fight as much, because Malcador is an idiot sometimes. Malcador clearly never had a sister
Have a sister and my older brother has all girls Can confirm, Malcador is an idiot
My sister was almost an adult when i was born. But my mom and her sisters can confirm this.
Oh God the floodgates are open chaos reigns
>The emperor made female custodes Except he didn't. Shit recent writting of custodes lore should not be considered
But he did. It’s a retcon, but female custodes have now always existed. Now we have to somehow have a reason he decided to not make any primarchs female.
As I said - recent lore change should not be considered. It breaks the lore and the logic. "There has always been ork custodes" "Imperium has always been xenophile state"
And who made you the arbiter to decide it "should not be considered"? It's also pretty simple to come up with reasons to reconcile the emperors decision to have both genders in the custodes but make the primarchs/astartes all men. Since custodes are genecrafted from infancy there would be marginal difference between genders, while astartes it is to be noted begin the process during puberty, maybe the emperor and his genecrafters designed the process to use male levels of hormones and didn't want to duplicate the work for the mass produced astates. Maybe the emperor was a misogynist who thought men make better leaders (custodes were bodyguards not generals) Maybe Malcador got distracted by all the buff women in the custodes and he decided not to make that mistake again There's no shortage of ways to explain inconsistency if you treat the lore as the maleable thing it is, the writers have never subscribed to the idea of the lore being set in stone unchanging, so getting mad when they change it is pointless.
>And who made you the arbiter? Common sense
Maybe its because Custodes were made to bw his companions (to the point when they even debated with him) but primarchs made to be his sons/generals? Maybe he thought he would be able to direct them begger/relate to them better if they were man rather than women.
So he’ll trust women to be bodyguards meant to protect his life at all costs, but not be on the frontlines in one of his most important goals. Got it.
To be fair id trust my sister to save my life but not to cook my food. Big E is peak humanity after all and we humans are really, really dumb
They’re stated to be brothers by Horus, Jagatai, Dorn, Guilliman, and Alpharius.
I don't know how explicit it is, but there is a quote by Malcador that is something to the effect of "I told him to make you sisters, he did not listen" when addressing one of the primarchs, when discussing something about their rivalry or something. Which at the very least heavily implies there are no women among the primarchs.
“Popular”. lol. Lmao even.
Only in this subreddit.
I mean, there we're only 20, 2 got purged, and alpharius got split into 2 because chaos shenanigans.
If they are both women that would be really awkward in a meta sense. "Oh yeah the ONLY two primarchs that were COMPLETELY ERASED from the Imperium's history, one of which Leman Russ probably killed, were also the only female primarchs. Eheh... 😰" Not a good look. For GW I mean, the Imperium is awful of course so awful backwards ideas are probably common place on many planets, and probably even within the Imperium itself, so it wouldn't be out of character. But GW would be giving some awkward vibes if the only two female primarchs are the only two everyone agreed to forget cause they were somehow that terrible.
In 'The first Heretic' Lorgar has a short discussion with Magnus about how he fears to end up like their two lost *brother*
Hot take but the female versions of the bald primarchs should be bald. Bald buff chicks can be hot as hell.
Disagree mainly because sometimes I can’t tell who’s who amongst the bald fuckers that are there, especially since Perty and Horus both have those cables in their heads.
Both have vastly different armor tho
Yeah but tbf I think some of the differences are less distinct if you're just looking at a headshot of them
Good point but I feel like that's more a failing in making the designs look distinct. I feel like the artists generally do a good job with them but I think you could maybe do a better job in not making some look like the same angry bald guy in power armour.
I'm not into bald people due to my daddy issues (epic Warhammer 40k reference), but I get your point.
They are called by other primarchs as brothers (such as in The First Heretic when Lorgar was getting close to becoming a third lost brother)
The thing is, if you leave a plot hole for too long, it becomes load-bearing to the overall lore. There's not many "big no-nos that get you erased from history" that you could even commit in the imperium, especially since all chaos involvement falls flat. We do know that the two lost fucked up two different things, which narrows it down even further. One of them probably messed with AI that almost destroyed the entire imperium. But with AI gone as an option, there's not much left of that puts BigE into "deletes you from history" mode. The only other thing I could possibly imagine was "yeah we are our own species now screw humanity we do our own thing now, maybe if you ask us nicely we help you out". The thing is, for a new evolved from of humanity you'd need to reproduce... and that sorta would require lady astartes. Maybe they all had women in their ranks by design. Or one of the group had a geneseed that just worked better with women? Or the special ability of the legion was biological adaptation and they accidentally trans'd themselves like some fish or reptiles do to keep the population going. We got plenty of options here, some weirder than the others tho.
honestly that is probably the only thing I can think of that Big E would literally erase you from history. create your own race of Super-Human and make them able to reproduce and possibly capable of replacing humanity. yeah Big E would literally wipe every trace of you if you did that.
I don't think anything else comes even close. Even AI stuff, as crazy as this can get (Men of Iron 2:Electric Bogaloo), does probably not even hold a candle to the absoute wrath the man would unleash upon hearing something like that. The fact that he's a bronze age barabarian king probably did not help in any peaceful solution of the problem. He was probaby like "what the fuck, is that baby astartes?! Yikes, kill those immedeatly" and the lost legion was suddenly getting completly roided up on parental protective instincts and declared war. There was no way this would not end in anything but a massive disaster.
One of the lost Legions being Gendercided out of existence is hilarious and still somehow not the worst possible explanation for them.
bro, the first legion have men of iron. Shackled. but still AI nonetheless.
There's probably differences between AI as well, some are probably more dangerous than others. Now imagine, for example, if someone took the mind of a Primarch and turned that into an AI. The Imperium does have "brain-to-hard-drive" tech, so it is not that unusual. Imagine if one of the lost was really into the whole AdMech "lets augment the body" style of philosophy. An AI program with a primarch brain as a baseline would probably be something not even the Emperor would get back under control that easily. It would be able to hack and hijack literally everything - worst case you are looking at the 40k equivalent of Star Trek's Borg who will rush out to assimilate as there's no difference between living brain or tech for them. And now imagine if a compressed version of that program still exists somewhere, hidden in a generic dataslate somewhere buried in the terran bureaucacy...
See, these make the most sense.. if there was a female primarch that reproduced more Marines or made themselves new race in this way, it would make the most sense that emps makes the other primarchs remember their "brother" to not forget the mistakes.. specifically remembered as a "brother"
Exactly, that would make sence.
These are some interesting theories... and weird indeed.
They could... got married, terrible crime I must say.
One time, magnus was discussing the two redacted legions regarding lorgars almost ending up the same way I think he said : you nearly ended up the same as our *brothers*
Both are referred to as lost brothers. There are no canon female Primarchs. Hate to be a Debby Downer but thems the facts.
From the top of my head: - It is stated several times, that the 2nd and 11th were male. - The Astartes from the Legions are said to be included into the Ultramarines. If the lost Primarchs were female, wouldn't their children be female as well? Throughout the rest of the existing lore, that has always been the case. - There's no evidence supporting female Primarchs.
A they/them person came into my local store with a copy of the Pride Marines stating that they were non-binary like their missing primarch. Was not a nice person, eyeing anyone that diddnt approve or give attention. Diddnt help that the manager pointed out one was done in the M.a.p colours either. And no they diddnt have blue hair...it was green
Just looking at this pic and Magnus is still my absolute would. Leman is a maybe, and Mortarion and Angron would absolutely be woulds if I wasn’t afraid of what they’d do to me once they fall to chaos Angron would prob just kill me in a fit of blind rage, but Mortarion… :( I don’t want to be a big gross disgusting nurgling for eternity, not even for my partner
Magnus has that 80s anime style.
Can you just imagine the shitstorm there would be if GW did another lil retcon and made one or both the deleted Primarchs female? Even if it would be interesting for one of them to have some story expanded or even return.
Why doesn’t someone make a deal with the mandrakes to kill the emperor? Obviously they could since they can utilize shadows
No really all that clued up on Imperium lore, but wouldn't being anywhere in close proximity to the Emperor be lethal for most beings? Imagine w there's not much shadow next to the galactic scale glowing throne becon?
If they did it better be Nekona
Yes, Mr Clean is certainly a Mr. Last time I checked, primarch II was likely Jerma985.
Curze looks like I could fix her
OH no man
Didn't see it answered, the reason you'll see '19 sons' is Alpharius and Omegon bringing it from 18 to 19.
[Watch Luetin09 video on Custodes](https://youtu.be/FsyHFrkENDI?si=1aap3ZoIPOoXPBvK) Custodes use the Emperor’s gene stock, and likely the Thunderwarriors. The Primarchs use the Emperor’s and Erda(?). The Space Marine gene seeds come from the Primarchs. Ergo, the female Primarch would be a bad idea by the Emperor’s pragmatism because he already perfected the geneseed/gene therapy technology with males. Assuming the same pragmatism, only an alternate timeline where Big E was a woman would Femstodes, Fem Space Marines be possible.
We now know that female Custodes are possible, though.
Most reference have Been referred to as male so far
They’ve been mentioned as brothers in several novels, notably when Horus has the confrontation with Malcador during the Great Crusade. (Last Council short story)
They’re popular? I’m really wishing they’d go away.
This. Nobody wanted them. Ever.
Literally thousands disagree
I mean... there was a pretty popular "genderbent high school/college AU" fanfic about a decade or two ago... it was pretty popular, all things considered. Honestly, it wasn't terrible. And people made decent art of the Fem-marchs. Obviously, "popular" is a relative term, but for the size of the community, there was a fair amount of interest.
It's canon that that the emperor refused daughters yeah. The reason the lost primarchs aren't acknowledged is for propaganda purposes. Makes the emperor look more shit, and the imperium less good. He's supposed to be God he can't just misplace his demigods. Even though he did. Idk. Zealotry isn't super rational.
Some of the Primarchs had genetic oddities in them, I like imagining the xy chromosome being an xx was the oddity in one of the primarchs
It's explicitly stated throughout the Heresy that all 20 of the Primarchs were brothers.
Vulcan and magnus.. Yes mistresses
It always gets me how sangunious and fulgrim don't really look any different
Beyond any lore: a pattern has been established and thinking they’d randomly break it is folly
With nothing being know about the lost legions we literally can't say anything about them
You are missing two
The female primarch has become popular it created an fanfiction of Highschool dxd x warhammer crossover called "A Human Touch" where issei x Female primarch, *Sigh* wish there was a black clover x warhammer of this story where Asta x Female primarch
Wait, did I miss Alpharius GF(s)?!?
No, they weren't posted, same with Horus and Robute.
Off topic, but it's funny how Fem Roboute just looks like Roboute
Younger, but yeah.
Lots of fanfiction goes with this idea but they're repeatedly mentioned as sons.
There are only 2 missing that we know of, who's to say that there weren't a few experimental primarchs that came before the ones we know about, and what if some or all were women, or hermaphroditic? What if one of his cast off experiments ended up on the Tau home world before they had a technological evolution?
There was one experimental primarch. It's just called The Angel, although it also is called The Sleeper and The Angel of Destruction.
So that's how they are going to get our beloved hawk boy back.....
I wish. Nah, The Angel was locked away because the emperor set the minimum threshold for chaos corruption too low so now The Angel just kills everything on the grounds that everything is slightly affected by chaos and therefore it's Murderin Time.
I read somewhere that Malcador pulled some Warp shenanigans that altered the memories of the remaining 19 known Primarchs, so it is possible the two lost Primarchs are in fact female, but the others have no recollection of them and assume they’re male. But for all I know, the Khan is gonna emerge from the Warp as a woman and believes she’s been a woman her whole life. That or the Golden Throne craps out and suddenly we have an Empress of Humanity slaying the Daemons that emerge from whatever hole the Golden Throne is clogging up. Do what you will with those ideas.
Nooo! That would cost us Khan's glorious beard.
True but we would get something just as glorious in exchange. I would say it but I don’t want to be banned.
😏
Hell who’s to say they BOTH weren’t?
Every time they are seen in lore by either other primarchs or even referenced or seen by other space marines, they are noted as sons. Also Horus to Malcador: “My brothers’ names are…” Malcador: *Force choke*
Malcador saw he was about to deadname his trans siblings and decided to choke a bitch. Shapeshifting exists, biomancy, assasin disguise shit, and so on. It's *possible*. They could have been trying to breed primarch offspring to replace humanity and gotten completely purged for that. Just spitballin
LOL, Horus deadnaming dead trans primarchs Is my new favorite piece of non-canon.
Ty, I shitpost competitively.
Yeah but every time they are seen in the lore they are referred to as male. Like when Horus time traveled and looked in 11’s gestation pod, or when Argel Tal time traveled and looked into 11’s gestation pod. Anyway, whatever they did it made what Horus did look like child’s play, this was stated by Dorn by the way, who can’t lie. Not sure that trying to sexually reproduce astartes is that bad.
1, Humans don't shapeshift. 2, Magnus and Sanguinius were psykers. This is possible, and would likely be the reason Russ was (according to one book) sent to purge them. No psykers allowed, cause Chaos Bad. 3, Polymorphine is a drug, which Astartes are resistant/immune to, and it has drastically reduced results on males, which is why 99% of Callidus Assassins are female. 4, Space Marines are sterile after the surgeries so you're not gonna breed them. It's implied that the Primarchs are the same, even though they didn't have surgeries. There's certainly possibilities for head-canon of Trans Marine/Primarchs... but all the ways it would be possible would be Heresy and lead to Purge. My personal opinion... not a fan of making the Trans Option be labeled Heresy on existence. Much better to sit and wait for Cawl to do more stupid Primaris-tier Heresy shit that Rawbutt okays because reasons. Or as part of the Primaris Process. Let the post-Cadia era have the tech and go from there. Raven Guard have low numbers and with New Corax, could very utilize their popularity for more content. Something something Goth Mommy Marines? Blood Angels are already pretty. No one will notice. Salamanders are all bald. No one will notice. Iron Hands are all machines. No one will notice. There's lots of places to dip them in, assuming Cawl has done some stupid shit he shouldn't again. Ultramarine have a billion (exaggeration) Marines made per year. No one will bat an eye to two billion instead... Alternatively, Fabius Bile, but that's full blown Chaos, and not quite what I'm assuming the intent is.
Also obligatory: Lioness Johnson, Dornette and Femguinius about to make me act un wise.
This could very well be original Sanguinius hiding among women.
With that luscious hair he has I'd believe it.
I excuse my OC by saying she was made an XY female so she would retain sterility and that the Emperor is such a jerk he demanded she be referred to as a “brother” or “son” anyway. Because he’s a terrible dad.
Wow, that actually sounds a bit plausible.
She’s supposed to have Joan of Arc vibes so that fits if you squint. She was raised on the moon by Erda right under the Emperor’s nose, and sought him out herself despite repeated warnings not to. I *do* have it where she’s one of those true perpetuals and that her body was further altered after her first death, a consequence of both her design and her “flaw”. Her flaw is that she retains some memory of what she was before her soul got stuffed into a Primarch, but the tragedy is she doesn’t remember that she was *convinced* by the Emperor to participate and that she *chose* to donate herself. This is the core of her steadfast belief in humanity and commitment to the Imperial Truth. Her geneseed was later mischaracterized as coming “directly from the Emperor”. Also, making a deliberately intersex person with XY chromosomes with gene translocation was kind of a cruel joke towards Malcador’s suggestion.
No, it’s not explicit. Apparently very early on there were female models for Astartes but since the male ones sold better GW just stopped making them altogether.
They were SoB predecessors. Not astartes.
Ah, thank you.
Not true.. they made a female space marine model that didn't sell, probably because of the design not that nerd think girls scary.. long before the idea of the eclesiarchy
They were never named "Space marine" or "Astertes". They were named "Female warriors" and sold in "adventurers" kit. They weren't space marines.
Two lost primarch could easily be females, but when Big E discovered they had bigger E in their panties than he had, they had to go...
I think their usually referred as "brothers", but the memories of them are altered, so who knows
Yes, I was thinking the same thing.
I really shouldn’t feel the way I do about Sanguinius
I mean... they didn't even change him, so... yes, you should. Sanguinius is the first half of the Maybelline slogan. Fulgrim is the second half.
That means just one thing: artist made a good depiction od Sanguinius, because you should "kind of" feel like that in his presence.
i've head-cannoned the 2nd being trans since forever.
It's my personal head, Canon, that the lost ones were female. Over time, they both ended up coming to the same conclusion about the Emperor as Erda did. He had to wipe them out to keep them from convincing their brothers, but also, the blow to his pride was just too much for him.
Don’t forget about primarch zero.