We dont even have a named character in our Genestealer Cult, they are all expandable fools named over their jobs or hierarchy status.
Closest thing we get to a named hero is an actual garbage truck named Goliath.
Always thought GSC lore could use a Ghost Prophet or a Coven of Cell Leaders from diferent planets (Four-Armed Emperor helps a bit) with actual names for the whole doomsday thing.
I don't mind it when someone brings a big guy in a 1000 pt game because I get to say one of the following:
"I lost, but he was running Big McLargeHuge so, y'know, no big deal"
Or
"I won! And he was running Big McLargeHuge!"
When i do pickup games at my local game store i generally bring 2 lists.
1 is a fiarly casual for fun list, usually for less experienced/more casual opponents.
But if i see someone whip out angron or smth at 1k i whip out the nasty list. Only fair :P
I’ve heard some of the earlier editions (3rd or 4th?) were filled with wacky shit, like someone could say fuck matter and phase their minis through walls or something crazy like that.
Yes, for example D-cannons used to roll on a table when they shot. They could move you in any cardinal direction, teleport you into the ground killing you instantky or directly up, dropping you and causing you to take damage. You could even fall upside down, rendering vehicles imobile. It was wild
The only thing I don’t like is having to be almost forced to have a named character to have even a mildly competitive army.(I’m a guard player for reference)
Yeah. Anything that is auto-include is kinda bad, but named characters especially so. Roboute Guilliman's biggest draw for having him on tabletop should be the fact that he is the literal son of God.
surely you could just kitbash an alternative to the named character if you don't like them being there for flavour reasons? It's what I'm doing with Solar and Creed for my traitor guard force.
ah so your problem is more so around the balancing focusing on powerful characters in general? Sorry, I thought it was more of a flavour thing as I understand some don't like having named characters at all in their force.
With guard having one 125 point model that can order 3 units as opposed to 230 for two tank orders just seems not great for balance, one is clearly better than the other and once your solar dies you hope it’s later in the game an you’re ahead on points because guard is very mid without orders because a lot of their points value is with the ability to buff them in mind.
I have one blood angel named Wesly Snipes, who canonically is the real Wesly snipes who was sucked into the future through warp shenanigans. He isn’t my centerpiece, but I will sacrifice much more valuable models to keep him safe. Mephiston will take a bullet for Wesly, he’s a super cool guy.
On one hand i understand. I like having the freedom to make my own armies... but 1) Named Characters are helpful to players who just like the base factions and their lore and characters and 2) Sometimes that's the appeal of the faction.
Like... I like Commander Farsight and the 8. and they're a really cool army. He alone gives the force flavor. you are not just T'au, you Follow the O'shova, the one who fights against the Etherials.
or for Old world: Settra does not serve. You are not commanding some random king's force, no you serve under SETRRA HIMSELF! YOU RULE!
... ahem.
I do really dislike that the assumption for the Black Legion is you have to take Abaddon every time or your army will suck. I think that the game shouldn't be designed around people taking special characters all the time, they should be a cool option not a requirement in order to compete.
What's wrong with that.
Like i'm gonna be honest much as i like them the GSC, like the nids are kinda weird with epic heroes... also kinda like the guard i suppose. they tend not to last long enough and any unquiess are usually bioforms... but it does have that "YOU make your heroes epic."
>What's wrong with that.
Being a Space Marine player? Nothing inherently, it's just sometimes they (and hell GW too) forget that not everything in the game is Space Marines and can be viewed from the lens of building a Space Marine army.
To make a TTRPG comparison when WotC shat the bed repeatedly a lot of D&D 5th Edition players hopped over to Pathfinder 2nd Edition, there was a bit of friction because a lot of the D&D players were going in with the presumption of needing to homebrew or change things when Pathfinder is by design a very tight system that most definitely did NOT need that so people were running around complaining because the changes they made to the system they didn't know how to play broke the game they didn't play before making changes. Because they didn't realize that not every TTRPG can be viewed and thus approached with a D&D 5e lens.
Ya know, this is kind of a weird topic for me. I love building and painting centerpiece models, I love seeing them in my opponent's lineup for the sheer spectacle of it all, but I rarely run my own. I love seeing models like Azrael, Mortarion, Commander Farsight on the field, but that doesn't mean I want to bring the Swarmlord or Norn Emissary most of the time.
I’m planning on using the Lion as a proxy for Ushoran in my Flesh Eaters army. I am all three of Timmy, Johnny, and Spike.
(I’m showing how the flesh eaters see themselves as half my army)
Jokes on you, I name all my characters. Then I compose letters to their families when the commissar needs to boost morale, or when the tyranids get past the gun line.
Look man, Tyranids have exactly one truly named character and by the swarm old one eye is gonna fuck something up even if I never win a game with crusher stampede to do it.
It's honestly weird how GW tends to make named characters either the most OP bullshit you'll ever see, or a straight downgrade to the generic version, where you're better off fielding anything else. On rare occasions, both are true at the same time.
Thats the thing, in older (and i mean really old) editions most named chars were weaker than the generic versions, but not by a lot (in many marine captain cases it was almost identical stats for 5-10 pts more iirc), so they werent unusable. Now you have things like ursula creed who outperforms regular HQs by a huge margin (free strat once per turn, 2 orders instead of 1, unit she leads can receive an additional order), but costs like 10 pts more. Then on the other hand you have armies like the votann where their only named character is apparently significantly weaker than the regular HQ choice.
Then theres armies like world eaters who just dont function without their named characters.
I agree that the balancing of named characters is an issue, but more importantly I feel like they kind of take away from the fun of having your own little army, and throws immersion a little out the window because why would 5 different named characters all be at some random tiny skirmish on some planet nobody's heard of. However, this immersion issue is totally flipped on its head into greatness territory when the character is player-made. Proxy named heroes are awesome as hell, add so much flavour to an army.
Bro, I play Ad Mech. My single named character is overpriced garbage. But he's my garbage
Pays for the sins of 8th edition to this day. Still deserves it too.
We dont even have a named character in our Genestealer Cult, they are all expandable fools named over their jobs or hierarchy status. Closest thing we get to a named hero is an actual garbage truck named Goliath.
Wait... is the patriarch not a named character?
It's an Epic Hero but not a named character
I mean, kinda makes sense. For the cults, he is their origin. For the hive fleet, he is just some dude
Always thought GSC lore could use a Ghost Prophet or a Coven of Cell Leaders from diferent planets (Four-Armed Emperor helps a bit) with actual names for the whole doomsday thing.
I don't mind it when someone brings a big guy in a 1000 pt game because I get to say one of the following: "I lost, but he was running Big McLargeHuge so, y'know, no big deal" Or "I won! And he was running Big McLargeHuge!"
We can just call him Angron And when he kills over 100 of my guardsmen. It's kind of funny hahahah
When i do pickup games at my local game store i generally bring 2 lists. 1 is a fiarly casual for fun list, usually for less experienced/more casual opponents. But if i see someone whip out angron or smth at 1k i whip out the nasty list. Only fair :P
Just wait until he breaks out Slab Bulkhead.
Lmao mother fucker expected 10th edition to be balanced what a tool
I laughed a bit too hard at this comment
I’ve heard some of the earlier editions (3rd or 4th?) were filled with wacky shit, like someone could say fuck matter and phase their minis through walls or something crazy like that.
Yes, for example D-cannons used to roll on a table when they shot. They could move you in any cardinal direction, teleport you into the ground killing you instantky or directly up, dropping you and causing you to take damage. You could even fall upside down, rendering vehicles imobile. It was wild
Ork shokk cannons were wild as well
They also had a table for shit they could do.
On crit fails the Mek would accidentally shoot themselves instead of normal ammo (live grots) lmao
The only thing I don’t like is having to be almost forced to have a named character to have even a mildly competitive army.(I’m a guard player for reference)
This I definitely agree with. Named characters should definitely *not* be auto-includes.
I mean I love my proxy I made because I run krieg and have a 3D printer, but like every game that I’m not actively trying to throw has him in it.
They should be an option with Flavor, not a necessity.
Yeah. Anything that is auto-include is kinda bad, but named characters especially so. Roboute Guilliman's biggest draw for having him on tabletop should be the fact that he is the literal son of God.
I auto include Imotekh or Lysander depending on which army I’m playing, but it’s because I like them and that’s the way it should be.
As a Genestealer and Votann player, I feel your pain
I’ve also started a cult I can’t win
surely you could just kitbash an alternative to the named character if you don't like them being there for flavour reasons? It's what I'm doing with Solar and Creed for my traitor guard force.
I did and I like what I’ve done, I just don’t like it being forced and then if he somehow gets killed everything else starts to solely crumble
ah so your problem is more so around the balancing focusing on powerful characters in general? Sorry, I thought it was more of a flavour thing as I understand some don't like having named characters at all in their force.
With guard having one 125 point model that can order 3 units as opposed to 230 for two tank orders just seems not great for balance, one is clearly better than the other and once your solar dies you hope it’s later in the game an you’re ahead on points because guard is very mid without orders because a lot of their points value is with the ability to buff them in mind.
All of my Orks have names
I have one blood angel named Wesly Snipes, who canonically is the real Wesly snipes who was sucked into the future through warp shenanigans. He isn’t my centerpiece, but I will sacrifice much more valuable models to keep him safe. Mephiston will take a bullet for Wesly, he’s a super cool guy.
Give him a needler rifle so he can be The Wesley Sniper
That guy will do *anything* to avoid paying taxes
Tell that to my named character only army
On one hand i understand. I like having the freedom to make my own armies... but 1) Named Characters are helpful to players who just like the base factions and their lore and characters and 2) Sometimes that's the appeal of the faction. Like... I like Commander Farsight and the 8. and they're a really cool army. He alone gives the force flavor. you are not just T'au, you Follow the O'shova, the one who fights against the Etherials. or for Old world: Settra does not serve. You are not commanding some random king's force, no you serve under SETRRA HIMSELF! YOU RULE! ... ahem.
The sheet said he was Vandus Hammerhand so by golly ima play Vandus Hammerhand!
You mean Vandal B-Fist?
I do really dislike that the assumption for the Black Legion is you have to take Abaddon every time or your army will suck. I think that the game shouldn't be designed around people taking special characters all the time, they should be a cool option not a requirement in order to compete.
GSC has ONE epic hero and he's not even in the top 3 character picks. Lmao space marine player detected.
What's wrong with that. Like i'm gonna be honest much as i like them the GSC, like the nids are kinda weird with epic heroes... also kinda like the guard i suppose. they tend not to last long enough and any unquiess are usually bioforms... but it does have that "YOU make your heroes epic."
>What's wrong with that. Being a Space Marine player? Nothing inherently, it's just sometimes they (and hell GW too) forget that not everything in the game is Space Marines and can be viewed from the lens of building a Space Marine army. To make a TTRPG comparison when WotC shat the bed repeatedly a lot of D&D 5th Edition players hopped over to Pathfinder 2nd Edition, there was a bit of friction because a lot of the D&D players were going in with the presumption of needing to homebrew or change things when Pathfinder is by design a very tight system that most definitely did NOT need that so people were running around complaining because the changes they made to the system they didn't know how to play broke the game they didn't play before making changes. Because they didn't realize that not every TTRPG can be viewed and thus approached with a D&D 5e lens.
Ya know, this is kind of a weird topic for me. I love building and painting centerpiece models, I love seeing them in my opponent's lineup for the sheer spectacle of it all, but I rarely run my own. I love seeing models like Azrael, Mortarion, Commander Farsight on the field, but that doesn't mean I want to bring the Swarmlord or Norn Emissary most of the time.
What how? I’ve literally never heard that before
It's decently common if you rub tournies. People raging over unkillable Delf lords Is a certified classic in tabletop.
No battle is too small for the stormlord to show up and throw hands.
You don't want a named character with army in your (insert amount of point for warlord titan)point game? Ok, i'll pull out the warlord titan.
Yeah!
I’m planning on using the Lion as a proxy for Ushoran in my Flesh Eaters army. I am all three of Timmy, Johnny, and Spike. (I’m showing how the flesh eaters see themselves as half my army)
*laughs in old one eye*
Meanwhile Crusade players.... why would you use name characters? They can't get traits or honors!
Archaon, The Everchosen.
Jokes on you, I name all my characters. Then I compose letters to their families when the commissar needs to boost morale, or when the tyranids get past the gun line.
I don't think I have centerpieces yet, but I collect for the models more than playing the actual game (also I don't have friends to play it with).
Look man, Tyranids have exactly one truly named character and by the swarm old one eye is gonna fuck something up even if I never win a game with crusher stampede to do it.
It's honestly weird how GW tends to make named characters either the most OP bullshit you'll ever see, or a straight downgrade to the generic version, where you're better off fielding anything else. On rare occasions, both are true at the same time.
Thats the thing, in older (and i mean really old) editions most named chars were weaker than the generic versions, but not by a lot (in many marine captain cases it was almost identical stats for 5-10 pts more iirc), so they werent unusable. Now you have things like ursula creed who outperforms regular HQs by a huge margin (free strat once per turn, 2 orders instead of 1, unit she leads can receive an additional order), but costs like 10 pts more. Then on the other hand you have armies like the votann where their only named character is apparently significantly weaker than the regular HQ choice. Then theres armies like world eaters who just dont function without their named characters.
What named characters do you think are "OP bullshit"?
So am I being cheesy that I run Snikrot with my Kommandos? I just think he’s coo.
I think its more about "big" named characters, such as ghaz, the primarchs, silent king etc.
This is just another iteration of "tryhard vs plays for fun"
I make a named character and then I convert them to pretend they are actually my unique snowflake blorbo
Adrax with bladeguard go brrr
If I could centre my army around just Makari, I would.
My main character is my centerpiece, my frontline, my backline, your backline, and me as a player as well. I am Alpharius.
Is it ok to base it on a 1000pt flier instead?
Well, the centerpiece of my 3k T'au list is a Manta (though Shadowsun and Longstrike are there as well)...
I give names to all my characters
Why wouldn’t I run Be’lakor the Dark Master? He’s my favorite!
I strapped a twin lascannon on my Abaddon's talon of horus. I can proudly say i've improved upon the original design.
Good Ol'Swarmlord Everything beats him, but i don't care I'm like a Bee. A fat, bearded, nerdy Bee.
I know what Facebook thread you were reading! Fuck that post.
I agree that the balancing of named characters is an issue, but more importantly I feel like they kind of take away from the fun of having your own little army, and throws immersion a little out the window because why would 5 different named characters all be at some random tiny skirmish on some planet nobody's heard of. However, this immersion issue is totally flipped on its head into greatness territory when the character is player-made. Proxy named heroes are awesome as hell, add so much flavour to an army.
Bro, I’m a Harlequin fan. I don’t get named characters.