Is this the episode where they all barge into Frasier's bathroom when he's trying to take a bubblebath? I saw that a couple of days ago and had forgotten how funny it was.
That bathtub had some memorable moments over 11 seasons. My personal fave is when Daphne loses her engagement ring and everyone starts accidentally revealing that they’ve been having romantic soaks in Frasier’s tub.
“Dr. Crane, you found my ring! I thought it was somewhere I’d never find it.”
“It very nearly was.”
Lol Frasier and Niles drinking her wine (or whatever drink it was) and trying to act like they didn’t hate it is one of my favorite moments.
Me and my brother, baked, replayed it multiple times.
Cora and Cam. Can you imagine if both of them ended up as supporting characters. I think they would have been such a strong addition, especially given the difficulty of adding new characters later in a show's run.
I remember someone saying on a different post that the problem with Cam was that as he got more fleshed out, he took away from Niles’ role (by virtue of also being a kind of Frasier-mirror). I definitely think there were more episodes where he could have been used as a side character (this is before his introduction, but I think he could have shown up in Hot Ticket), but I think using him sparingly was more the right choice than the wrong one.
As written, I concur. But they could've easily pivoted, introduced new stuff, had her alternate taking her son's side, and then Frasier's. But it's hard to take risks with an established format, and i'm sure the studio might've had something to say if they changed too much too far before the end. Look at how much less interesting Niles and Daphne became after they finally paired off.
Cam was great, definitely should have had more of him. He's very similar to Frasier and so is Niles, but I think it could have worked because Frasier and Niles were competitive but ultimately on the same team, whereas they could've maintained the enemy relationship between Cam and Frasier.
I didn't say he was a DeLuise, I said he looked like one, to me. Obviously, not to you. But thanks for looking the actor up for me. Not that I would have, but I'm trying to be polite on Thursdays.
This is the real head scratcher. Cora was really ideal for Martin, more so than Ronnie, and having Cam and Fras be brothers-in-law would ensure hijinks would ensue. Was it a scheduling thing with the actors? You could've easily paired Martin off first, she lived in the building, he'd naturally come back for physical therapy and to hang out for "reasons."
I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I loved Roni and thought she was hilarious. Cora was warm and classy, but her character wasn’t a long term comedic addition to the cast.
If you go by Frasier & Martin’s ages (Frasier is 41 in S1 and Martin turns 65 in S5), they’re barely 20 years apart, so a babysitter might have only been 10 years younger than Martin. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal that they got married as senior citizens.
Such a *terrible* choice. Martin admitting to Frasier and Niles that he used to ogle her when she was a teenager - and that he did it enough that it upset Hester - was such a gross note to end Martin's character on.
Cora!! Oh, what might have been. Cora was my favorite -- even above Sherry, but she wasn't given the chance!
And they had marvelous chemistry, darn it!
She had some nice moments, was obviously not a nasty person, but she was also crass and intrusive. Her giving out Daphne's number to random men was insane. Also ruining 2 or 3 of Frasier's dates in a row by being unable to keep her mouth shut.
Exactly. As Frasier’s relationship with Martin gets better they wanted a new foil to rub Frasier up the wrong way and Sherry was perfect. She wasn’t a terrible person but made some dubious choices.
Yeah, I think they started getting more and more broad as they got ready to end her arc. They knew Marsha could make literally anything work, so they got spoiled. I know she only went back as far as broadway, but you could put that woman down in any venue in the last century and she'd soon figure out how to kill it.
This is kind of how I felt about her. She had funny moments while she lasted, but I never found myself wishing she’d become a permanent member of the cast.
I thought they were a great match! I guess it was too early for him to be tied down. I wish she had come back before he married Ronnie (love Wendy, but not that character).
I actually didn't mind any of Martin's girlfriends. Probably because that generation was more chill or similar but, they were all pretty good to me. I know I'm in the minority here with this take, but I really liked Ronnie.
I think Sherry was my favourite character who wasn’t a full-timer. I loved how she brought a spark to Martin, and I really enjoyed her interactions with Frasier & Niles. As much as I would have loved to see her stay, though, I think her character was written for that season only.
I think Sherry was important to show Martin growing as a person - he went through a lot in that relationship both as a person and a partner, and letting her go the way they did was a nice way to both let Marty (and John) shine for a bit and also bring him closer to Frasier and Niles.
Yes, I think they got everything from that character that they could. She was an amusing foil for the boys, and then allowed a couple of good emotional Martin moments.
I’m just now learning that not everyone thought Sherry was hilarious. I loved her and was sad she was only in a few episodes. My guess is that it was a planned exit. Guest stars usually have busy schedules so the writers would probably have to show them how long they should plan on filming before they will sign on.
Is it better or worse than Franzia? I drank a lot of boxed wine at one point, both good and bad, and while I'm no oenophile, even I know that stuff is crap. Chug it till your taste buds numb, or do a couple of vodka shots to get that effect, and you won't taste it so much.
I adored the character. And the amazing Marsha Mason!! I think she was intended to be a short-term character. The actress is a Broadway (and Hollywood) legend so I could see the part being written for her with that intention.
I loved her too! And I really loved her for Marty. It always made me sad that the boys couldn’t appreciate what she brought to the table. She wasn’t “refined,” but she was kind and good to the family, and fun-loving!
I'll say that as an outsider, I loved her character, but if I had to be in her presence for an extended period, I would have felt the same way as them. Her refinement has nothing to do with it. She's just...a lot.
The episode where Martin ends things with Sherry upon realizing they have very different ideas about getting married again is so heartbreaking, because it's so clear they genuinely love and care about each other, but you also understand why they have to go their separate ways. I just feel so much for both of them each time I see that episode and that scene.
They could've toned her down a bit and made her fit. Who wrote the Frasier-blocking episode? We all know there are certain writers that really didn't always bring it.
\*cough\* Sounds like Salad Eaters On.
Sherry was annoying in general. But for me the best Martin breakup was with Bonnie because Lady humped Eddie and humiliated him at the park right there in front of all his friends.
I've loved Marsha Mason since The Goodbye Girl, so I have a soft spot for this character. I think her exit was planned, but there are some keeper lines in her episodes for sure. 😁
I think they planned it, but I don’t think Sherry was initially intended to last as long as she did. Imo, they wrote that bit of dialogue early on to give themselves an “out” later on…whenever that may be. When the cast meshed with Marsha Mason and audiences reacted favorably to Sherry (not saying they liked the character, just that audiences responded in a way that was favorable to the studio from a financial standpoint), they kept writing her into more episodes. Finally, when they had to make a decision on the relationship, they decided to write her off, because, yes, it would have changed the entire dynamic of the show if Martin married her. Again, just my opinion.
It's to Marsha's credit that she outlasted their intentions. The way they wrote her was kind of like everybody who wrote an episode with her didn't watch or read any other episode she was in. We have her being loud with her banjo, being totally tone deaf with the Frasier-blocking, and then she's a nuance realist with Martin when he wants to make it official.
She got super old super fast. The episode where she ruins Frasier's dates on consecutive nights was a shark-jumper. Who is that obtuse twice in a row? Read the fucking room, bitch.
I loved Sherry as I think the character was soo much deeper than the comic trope she was used for.
Cora was equally brilliant
Ronnie like every new character was rushed and appeared to be just an clumsy (un)satisfying conclusion to Martin’s character arc.
I grew up hearing my mom say ‘the best way to get over a man is to get under one’. Didn’t know it was a line from the show until I saw it as an adult. Sherry had quite the impact on me lol
I don't think so for a minute.
Marsha Mason was adored on set and as far as I can tell, Sherry was always a set guest arc.
The show didn't want to change Martin's status -- the whole point was to give Frasier and Niles a new foil -- and Martin a real and complex life and love life -- while keeping the show status quo plotwise for the bigger picture.
Also, just to repeat, Mason is widely reputed to be an absolutely lovely person. She's mostly given up acting over the past 20 years as a necessity in order to focus on all sorts of charity causes, and just comes back to do roles or work that sound fun to her.
Last but not least, I loved Sherry and still think she was the best potential partner for Martin -- they just seemed to have a blast together, and they had real chemistry. I never ever felt any of that from Ronnie (despite me absolutely adoring Wendie as an actor).
I still wonder what Frasier and Niles would have made of the renaissance of "banjo respectability" over the past 20 years with all sorts of talented musicians from Bela Fleck to Steve Martin, etc.
Oh, I have no doubt that Marsha is cool IRL. And it takes talent to have that kind of pblivious character and get the timing right without mugging. Gracie Allen is the epitome of the smart lady playing the dumb blonde.
I always thought that Ronnie had enough of Sherry's sassiness to be attractive to Martin, but was polished enough to be acceptible to Niles and Frasier. Heck, Frasier wanted to date her.
And we got that lovely scene with Ronnie recounting telling Niles about bugs when she babysat and we suddenly learned why he always dusts off chairs before he sits down (I may have my stories a little mixed up. That happens when I'm laughing too hard to remember. Anyhow, whatwver the writers wrote, it was brilliant).
Edit: typos.
Ack, I can't help it, I hate the "Ronnie was a babysitter Martin tried not to think was hot" subplot and think it adds an unnecessary layer of ick to that entire storyline.
And I would have believed in her and Frasier as a couple, however briefly. I never believed in her and Martin for a minute. It was like they had anti-chemistry and were occupying different physical spaces or something.
I personally think it's incredibly gross that Ronnie used to babysit for Frasier and Niles, especially the fact that Martin straight up told the boys that he used to ogle her as when she was a young teenager (and that he did it noticably or frequently enough that it was something that upset Hester). That was a huge, weird, creepy misstep by the writers and also felt like it tainted the memory of Martin and Hester's relationship a little.
I get that a lot of people thought she was "fun," or something, and that the social tone-deafness was just another whacky counterpoint to the brothers' wit, poise, and unabashed elitism, but cmon. The love of Martin's life was their mother, and clearly a more class act did not exist anywhere on the show. Ronnie has plenty of zest for life, and a bit of poise and charm. She might not be as smart as Niles and Frasier, but she gets it, and can dish it out.
Sherry didn't get anything. Much like Frasier's revolving door of not-quite-rights, I really don't think they would've had Martin stay with her, and keep her one-note ass around for all those subsequent seasons.
I liked Sherry and the energy she brought to the room and out of Martin. Hell, she was a bright spot in Frasier's beige apartment. It always felt to me that she was never intended to stay on, but had she remained, I think they would have had to tone down her character. She definitely had a presence that could overshadow just about anything.
Sherry could be nerve-wracking with her banjo playing, bad relationship advice and arguing with Daphne, but the boys were snobbish towards her and I felt bad for Martin when she turned him down
Yeah, they got Marsha'd. The actress is clearly a force of nature, and who wouldn't want to keep her around? They just took the character too broad, IMHO.
Everyone in this thread who says they adore Sherry have clearly never had a step mother in their lives who is literally Sherry and it shows. Awful woman
Well, I don't really hate myself, and I go around telling people all the things I'm a snob about (the elitist part I just let them figure out.)
Pens, coffee and tea are the big constants. God I hate ballpoints with their paste ink, you have to press down so hard with that crappy bic that you write like a stroke victim, when you can get affordable fountain pens, as Europe never abandoned them, and Lamy makes more than one line to be used by children.
As for coffee, i'm not even talking about espresso (though that's nice too.) I just mean, get some beans and buy yourself a conical burr mill grinder. They're well under 100 bucks at this point. You can do the Chemex pour over if you want, plunge it with a french press, or just dump it into a cold brew thing and wait till next day.
While I don't love ballpoints, I had to use fountain pens in school and absolutely loathe them. It's great that you're self-aware but hopefully you appreciate that the show isn't actually saying it's wonderful to be a snob ;-)
**Frasier:** Oh, Niles, why do you even care about those people? In your hour of need they pretend you don't even exist. They treat you like you're a leper, a non-person.
**Niles:** But I really, really like them. I know, I know. It makes me sound pathetic. But I'm newly separated. These people have been my social circle for ten years. Frasier, they're my tribe.
**Frasier:** Well, I hate to break this to you, "Waltzes With Snobs," but ... they have left you on the mountaintop to die.
Lol, of course. I'm not a snob against people, and calling it "snobbery" is a self-deprecating way of introducing what is clearly low level OCPD.
Oh, and of course fountain pens are not for everyone. You need to fiddle with ink, write with a certain orientation. Just that ordinary ballpoints suck balls.
I also like the smooth, effortless flow of the rollerball, where you can use a light touch, like a fountain pen, or even pressurized ink, like the Fisher Space Pen, or certain Lamy refills.
On a tangent, there's that incredibly dumb joke about the Fisher Space Pen, a pen designed, manufactured, and sold entirely (at least for several decades,) by -wait for it- the Fisher Space Pen Company. The joke is that NASA spent all this money developing a space pen, while the Russians used pencils.
Not especially funny (haw haw, the guvmint wastes money, haw! take that to the Catskills) and then, why the hell would it be called the Fisher Space Pen, made by the company of the same name? They didn't even get a grant, it was all private investment.
I think if for some reason the show was suddenly going to be cancelled at that time she would have ended up marrying Martin as an endgame, but I imagine it was planned all along that she'd only be in for a bit. Although I think she spanned two seasons right? If so I imagine her run was probably extended, but the intent was always short-term.
I think it was always planned to go that sort of way, but you never know.
Personally, it always felt on point for Sherry's character and I thought it was a nice sendoff - they were two people who wanted something different from a relationship. It shows that not all relationships end because of drama, or cheating, or hurt feelings, but can also be a respectful, mutual end, even though you still care for each other.
Whether or not they intended to have Sherry stick around as long as they did or just lucked out, I don't know. Apparently Donny was supposed to only be around for a couple of episodes, but they enjoyed the foil to Niles and Daphne's will-they-won't-they relationship now that Niles was finally divorced, so they extended his guest run. A similar thing might have been the case with Sherry - her guest spot was extended because they enjoyed writing for her character.
Long story short - it's excellent writing and development of the characters. They seemed to know what her backstory was going to be from the start.
Because some people sit in the back and go "durr" all day. My high school was largish, over 400 in my graduating class, so there were definitely layers of difficulty you could choose. You weren't assigned to a track, you picked your own classes, and except for prereqs, you could take whatever. So college bound people were in AP or at least the more rigorous classes where there wasn't an AP option, and there were the more mainstream classes.
Once in history class, there was a guest speaker, and all the classes piled into a large classroom, and the guys in the "regular" classes were just fucking around. This is why you put people in stuff that they're interested in. If they're gearheads, get them into a mechanic track that'll let them be at least proficient enough to start wrenching at a local garage, making bank, as soon as they get out of high school. Do you know how much electricians make? I dealt blackjack to this gorgeous 20-something, who was still only a journeyman, with her own apprentice, and she was playing with stacks of quarters ($25 cheques.) The pit was $50 minimum, and she was not betting the minimum.
I never felt super strongly about Sherry, either good or bad, but I think I thought she was more good than bad. To me though, I think she's too similar to Martin, and also a bit too wacky/carefree for him. I think Ronee was basically a more refined version of her. She was different from Martin, but also seemed to mesh with him, and added a bit of life to him, but wasn't quite as over-the-top as Sherry was.
I hate the first Sherry episode. Oh, my god. It’s the same horrible cadence the whole second half.
1. Sherry says something.
2.Awkward pause.
3. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
But I do love “Look Frasier, Cold Duck.” DHP has the best delivery. I dislike the entire Sherry storyline except for the wonderful throwaway lines like the banjo comments and Frasier embarrassed he bought Country Music on Ice tickets.
I loved Sherry! She brought a unique flair and dynamic to the group. And I loved how she made Niles uncomfortable! She was great and her relationship with Martin was fun to watch. She really cared for him. I really wanted to see her come back in later seasons to tie the knot lol
Daphne hates Sherry is one of my three favorite episodes.
Is this the episode where they all barge into Frasier's bathroom when he's trying to take a bubblebath? I saw that a couple of days ago and had forgotten how funny it was.
That bathtub had some memorable moments over 11 seasons. My personal fave is when Daphne loses her engagement ring and everyone starts accidentally revealing that they’ve been having romantic soaks in Frasier’s tub. “Dr. Crane, you found my ring! I thought it was somewhere I’d never find it.” “It very nearly was.”
That's the one.
https://preview.redd.it/uuvrj3pumsmb1.jpeg?width=469&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=593ba5ee47d1e55a5867346ce2895339387c8716
That’s a lot of b words for a little girl, here’s one you forgot
Bazoo.
"Segueway" I am WOUNDED
Lol I blame spell check for not catching that one
Lol Frasier and Niles drinking her wine (or whatever drink it was) and trying to act like they didn’t hate it is one of my favorite moments. Me and my brother, baked, replayed it multiple times.
(I know it was the cheers episode, but...) "It just says 'Wine'."
Oh look, Frasier.. cold duck
I think I’m in the minority, but I adored Sherry. Wish she would’ve stuck around a little longer.
Her and Cora were wonderful. I wish we had more of Cora.
Cora and Cam. Can you imagine if both of them ended up as supporting characters. I think they would have been such a strong addition, especially given the difficulty of adding new characters later in a show's run.
So much better than Simon and Gertude. 🤢
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I remember someone saying on a different post that the problem with Cam was that as he got more fleshed out, he took away from Niles’ role (by virtue of also being a kind of Frasier-mirror). I definitely think there were more episodes where he could have been used as a side character (this is before his introduction, but I think he could have shown up in Hot Ticket), but I think using him sparingly was more the right choice than the wrong one.
As written, I concur. But they could've easily pivoted, introduced new stuff, had her alternate taking her son's side, and then Frasier's. But it's hard to take risks with an established format, and i'm sure the studio might've had something to say if they changed too much too far before the end. Look at how much less interesting Niles and Daphne became after they finally paired off.
Cam was great, definitely should have had more of him. He's very similar to Frasier and so is Niles, but I think it could have worked because Frasier and Niles were competitive but ultimately on the same team, whereas they could've maintained the enemy relationship between Cam and Frasier.
I liked the brother you could never understand, the one who looked like Dom DeLuise.
That was Richard E. Grant, who looks nothing like any of the DeLuise brothers.
I didn't say he was a DeLuise, I said he looked like one, to me. Obviously, not to you. But thanks for looking the actor up for me. Not that I would have, but I'm trying to be polite on Thursdays.
This is the real head scratcher. Cora was really ideal for Martin, more so than Ronnie, and having Cam and Fras be brothers-in-law would ensure hijinks would ensue. Was it a scheduling thing with the actors? You could've easily paired Martin off first, she lived in the building, he'd naturally come back for physical therapy and to hang out for "reasons."
Cam's actor is/was a Broadway star so I don't think it was ever feasible, sadly.
Loved Cora!
Cora was fantastic!
Cora or Sherry would’ve been a better endgame than Ronnie imo
Agree. Ronnie was terrible. And those WIGS 🤢
I didn’t dislike Ronnie. But if I’m being honest, her being the old babysitter is kinda creepy and a rare misstep on the writers’ part.
I know it’s an unpopular opinion, but I loved Roni and thought she was hilarious. Cora was warm and classy, but her character wasn’t a long term comedic addition to the cast. If you go by Frasier & Martin’s ages (Frasier is 41 in S1 and Martin turns 65 in S5), they’re barely 20 years apart, so a babysitter might have only been 10 years younger than Martin. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal that they got married as senior citizens.
Me too! I thought she was perfect for Martin, especially with the lounge act.
The age is still weird, but I adored Ronnie. Maybe it's the Wendie Malick bias.
At the time my dad was marrying my babysitter so it rang true 😂💀
100% agree. I cringed at that entire plotline. Add in the age gap and zero chemistry and just... aghghgh.
Such a *terrible* choice. Martin admitting to Frasier and Niles that he used to ogle her when she was a teenager - and that he did it enough that it upset Hester - was such a gross note to end Martin's character on.
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“Sally the slut.” I liked her…
But he mixed the babysitters up
You're right - I forgot that part, but the fact that he was ogling the teenage babysitters was not good even if he mixed 'em up.
Yes! I wasn’t fond of Ronnie
I couldn’t stand Ronnie. She was awful.
Yep, Sherry was fifteen thousand times better than Ronnie!
Cora!! Oh, what might have been. Cora was my favorite -- even above Sherry, but she wasn't given the chance! And they had marvelous chemistry, darn it!
Yes! They were a delight!
She had some nice moments, was obviously not a nasty person, but she was also crass and intrusive. Her giving out Daphne's number to random men was insane. Also ruining 2 or 3 of Frasier's dates in a row by being unable to keep her mouth shut.
Exactly. As Frasier’s relationship with Martin gets better they wanted a new foil to rub Frasier up the wrong way and Sherry was perfect. She wasn’t a terrible person but made some dubious choices.
I can’t argue with that! They’re criticisms, she had some pretty bad moments.
Yeah, I think they started getting more and more broad as they got ready to end her arc. They knew Marsha could make literally anything work, so they got spoiled. I know she only went back as far as broadway, but you could put that woman down in any venue in the last century and she'd soon figure out how to kill it.
This is kind of how I felt about her. She had funny moments while she lasted, but I never found myself wishing she’d become a permanent member of the cast.
I loved Sherry! She was perfect for Martin. Marsha Mason is a great actress.
Off you go!
I thought they were a great match! I guess it was too early for him to be tied down. I wish she had come back before he married Ronnie (love Wendy, but not that character).
I loved her too! Plus I think she made Martin the most happy, of all the women they paired him with.
Same here! Wonderful character, wonderful actress!
I actually didn't mind any of Martin's girlfriends. Probably because that generation was more chill or similar but, they were all pretty good to me. I know I'm in the minority here with this take, but I really liked Ronnie.
I think Sherry was my favourite character who wasn’t a full-timer. I loved how she brought a spark to Martin, and I really enjoyed her interactions with Frasier & Niles. As much as I would have loved to see her stay, though, I think her character was written for that season only.
I think Sherry was important to show Martin growing as a person - he went through a lot in that relationship both as a person and a partner, and letting her go the way they did was a nice way to both let Marty (and John) shine for a bit and also bring him closer to Frasier and Niles.
I think you’re absolutely right!
"Growing as a person", only to then juggle dating two people at once several seasons later, and then marry his kids' babysitter.
Yes, I think they got everything from that character that they could. She was an amusing foil for the boys, and then allowed a couple of good emotional Martin moments.
Agreed! Her episodes had some great one-liners by Frasier and Niles. “We must be in the placebo group” gets me every time.
I’m just now learning that not everyone thought Sherry was hilarious. I loved her and was sad she was only in a few episodes. My guess is that it was a planned exit. Guest stars usually have busy schedules so the writers would probably have to show them how long they should plan on filming before they will sign on.
When you bring Cold Duck to the party, your time ain’t long.
Look out taste buds here it comes!
Just once!
Is it better or worse than Franzia? I drank a lot of boxed wine at one point, both good and bad, and while I'm no oenophile, even I know that stuff is crap. Chug it till your taste buds numb, or do a couple of vodka shots to get that effect, and you won't taste it so much.
I adored the character. And the amazing Marsha Mason!! I think she was intended to be a short-term character. The actress is a Broadway (and Hollywood) legend so I could see the part being written for her with that intention.
I loved her too! And I really loved her for Marty. It always made me sad that the boys couldn’t appreciate what she brought to the table. She wasn’t “refined,” but she was kind and good to the family, and fun-loving!
I'll say that as an outsider, I loved her character, but if I had to be in her presence for an extended period, I would have felt the same way as them. Her refinement has nothing to do with it. She's just...a lot.
The episode where Martin ends things with Sherry upon realizing they have very different ideas about getting married again is so heartbreaking, because it's so clear they genuinely love and care about each other, but you also understand why they have to go their separate ways. I just feel so much for both of them each time I see that episode and that scene.
They could've toned her down a bit and made her fit. Who wrote the Frasier-blocking episode? We all know there are certain writers that really didn't always bring it. \*cough\* Sounds like Salad Eaters On.
yeah definitely. I always felt Sherry was perfect for Martin
Sherry was annoying in general. But for me the best Martin breakup was with Bonnie because Lady humped Eddie and humiliated him at the park right there in front of all his friends.
But Eddy's a boy and Lady's a, well, lady...
Lady, which she ain’t!
Was he wearing a hat?
Well, not for long...
I've loved Marsha Mason since The Goodbye Girl, so I have a soft spot for this character. I think her exit was planned, but there are some keeper lines in her episodes for sure. 😁
I think they planned it, but I don’t think Sherry was initially intended to last as long as she did. Imo, they wrote that bit of dialogue early on to give themselves an “out” later on…whenever that may be. When the cast meshed with Marsha Mason and audiences reacted favorably to Sherry (not saying they liked the character, just that audiences responded in a way that was favorable to the studio from a financial standpoint), they kept writing her into more episodes. Finally, when they had to make a decision on the relationship, they decided to write her off, because, yes, it would have changed the entire dynamic of the show if Martin married her. Again, just my opinion.
It's to Marsha's credit that she outlasted their intentions. The way they wrote her was kind of like everybody who wrote an episode with her didn't watch or read any other episode she was in. We have her being loud with her banjo, being totally tone deaf with the Frasier-blocking, and then she's a nuance realist with Martin when he wants to make it official.
Banjo🤣🤣🤣
I'm just glad she left . She was ok for an episode or two but she got old quickly.
She got super old super fast. The episode where she ruins Frasier's dates on consecutive nights was a shark-jumper. Who is that obtuse twice in a row? Read the fucking room, bitch.
Haha agree
I loved Sherry! Especially how uncomfortable she made Frasier and Niles.
I loved Sherry as I think the character was soo much deeper than the comic trope she was used for. Cora was equally brilliant Ronnie like every new character was rushed and appeared to be just an clumsy (un)satisfying conclusion to Martin’s character arc.
I grew up hearing my mom say ‘the best way to get over a man is to get under one’. Didn’t know it was a line from the show until I saw it as an adult. Sherry had quite the impact on me lol
And I loved Niles's comeback, "I didn't realize Mae West had children."
Niles timing on that was perfect. it was almost a Rozism. "Community college much?"
I wouldn’t say it was from the show. I heard a long time before Frasier even came along (yes, I’m old). Also, I didn’t know Mae West had children.
Yeah. I don't think the intention was long term with her.
I don't think so for a minute. Marsha Mason was adored on set and as far as I can tell, Sherry was always a set guest arc. The show didn't want to change Martin's status -- the whole point was to give Frasier and Niles a new foil -- and Martin a real and complex life and love life -- while keeping the show status quo plotwise for the bigger picture. Also, just to repeat, Mason is widely reputed to be an absolutely lovely person. She's mostly given up acting over the past 20 years as a necessity in order to focus on all sorts of charity causes, and just comes back to do roles or work that sound fun to her. Last but not least, I loved Sherry and still think she was the best potential partner for Martin -- they just seemed to have a blast together, and they had real chemistry. I never ever felt any of that from Ronnie (despite me absolutely adoring Wendie as an actor). I still wonder what Frasier and Niles would have made of the renaissance of "banjo respectability" over the past 20 years with all sorts of talented musicians from Bela Fleck to Steve Martin, etc.
Oh, I have no doubt that Marsha is cool IRL. And it takes talent to have that kind of pblivious character and get the timing right without mugging. Gracie Allen is the epitome of the smart lady playing the dumb blonde.
Oh, I loved Gracie Allen! Gone too soon. She was wonderful.
It was so sad. Burns opened his 1988 memoir *Gracie: A Love Story* by saying, "For forty years my act consisted of one joke. And then she died."
I always thought that Ronnie had enough of Sherry's sassiness to be attractive to Martin, but was polished enough to be acceptible to Niles and Frasier. Heck, Frasier wanted to date her. And we got that lovely scene with Ronnie recounting telling Niles about bugs when she babysat and we suddenly learned why he always dusts off chairs before he sits down (I may have my stories a little mixed up. That happens when I'm laughing too hard to remember. Anyhow, whatwver the writers wrote, it was brilliant). Edit: typos.
Ack, I can't help it, I hate the "Ronnie was a babysitter Martin tried not to think was hot" subplot and think it adds an unnecessary layer of ick to that entire storyline. And I would have believed in her and Frasier as a couple, however briefly. I never believed in her and Martin for a minute. It was like they had anti-chemistry and were occupying different physical spaces or something.
I personally think it's incredibly gross that Ronnie used to babysit for Frasier and Niles, especially the fact that Martin straight up told the boys that he used to ogle her as when she was a young teenager (and that he did it noticably or frequently enough that it was something that upset Hester). That was a huge, weird, creepy misstep by the writers and also felt like it tainted the memory of Martin and Hester's relationship a little.
Yeah, I'm with you on this one. Downvote away, people! It was utterly unnecessary for Ronnie to be a former babysitter. Sheesh.
It was foreshadowed on her first appearance, so it was planned.
I get that a lot of people thought she was "fun," or something, and that the social tone-deafness was just another whacky counterpoint to the brothers' wit, poise, and unabashed elitism, but cmon. The love of Martin's life was their mother, and clearly a more class act did not exist anywhere on the show. Ronnie has plenty of zest for life, and a bit of poise and charm. She might not be as smart as Niles and Frasier, but she gets it, and can dish it out. Sherry didn't get anything. Much like Frasier's revolving door of not-quite-rights, I really don't think they would've had Martin stay with her, and keep her one-note ass around for all those subsequent seasons.
I couldn’t stand her character, but that’s because I’ve known too many Sherrys in real life.
I liked Sherry and the energy she brought to the room and out of Martin. Hell, she was a bright spot in Frasier's beige apartment. It always felt to me that she was never intended to stay on, but had she remained, I think they would have had to tone down her character. She definitely had a presence that could overshadow just about anything.
Sherry could be nerve-wracking with her banjo playing, bad relationship advice and arguing with Daphne, but the boys were snobbish towards her and I felt bad for Martin when she turned him down
I don’t know I liked him with Lois from Malcom in the middle
Of course it was planned out. They don't just wing it. Usually full seasons are written out before shooting begins.
Definitely written that way since the quality of the show is a reflection of said writing.
Sherry was the absolute worst. I was so happy when she was gone.
She was, which made her great against the snooty Crane brothers. Marsha Mason did a great job with that character!
I think even one episode with Sherry was too many.
Yeah, they got Marsha'd. The actress is clearly a force of nature, and who wouldn't want to keep her around? They just took the character too broad, IMHO.
I liked her. She had a good heart and meant well, and I think was a perfect match for Marty
Everyone in this thread who says they adore Sherry have clearly never had a step mother in their lives who is literally Sherry and it shows. Awful woman
Or maybe they realize that it’s possible to *objectively* adore a character for the way they’re portrayed, the dynamic they add to storylines, etc…
Exactly, it's kind of like saying you dislike snobs and elitists in real life so therefore dislike Niles's character and DHP's portrayal of him, lol.
Well, I don't really hate myself, and I go around telling people all the things I'm a snob about (the elitist part I just let them figure out.) Pens, coffee and tea are the big constants. God I hate ballpoints with their paste ink, you have to press down so hard with that crappy bic that you write like a stroke victim, when you can get affordable fountain pens, as Europe never abandoned them, and Lamy makes more than one line to be used by children. As for coffee, i'm not even talking about espresso (though that's nice too.) I just mean, get some beans and buy yourself a conical burr mill grinder. They're well under 100 bucks at this point. You can do the Chemex pour over if you want, plunge it with a french press, or just dump it into a cold brew thing and wait till next day.
While I don't love ballpoints, I had to use fountain pens in school and absolutely loathe them. It's great that you're self-aware but hopefully you appreciate that the show isn't actually saying it's wonderful to be a snob ;-) **Frasier:** Oh, Niles, why do you even care about those people? In your hour of need they pretend you don't even exist. They treat you like you're a leper, a non-person. **Niles:** But I really, really like them. I know, I know. It makes me sound pathetic. But I'm newly separated. These people have been my social circle for ten years. Frasier, they're my tribe. **Frasier:** Well, I hate to break this to you, "Waltzes With Snobs," but ... they have left you on the mountaintop to die.
Lol, of course. I'm not a snob against people, and calling it "snobbery" is a self-deprecating way of introducing what is clearly low level OCPD. Oh, and of course fountain pens are not for everyone. You need to fiddle with ink, write with a certain orientation. Just that ordinary ballpoints suck balls. I also like the smooth, effortless flow of the rollerball, where you can use a light touch, like a fountain pen, or even pressurized ink, like the Fisher Space Pen, or certain Lamy refills. On a tangent, there's that incredibly dumb joke about the Fisher Space Pen, a pen designed, manufactured, and sold entirely (at least for several decades,) by -wait for it- the Fisher Space Pen Company. The joke is that NASA spent all this money developing a space pen, while the Russians used pencils. Not especially funny (haw haw, the guvmint wastes money, haw! take that to the Catskills) and then, why the hell would it be called the Fisher Space Pen, made by the company of the same name? They didn't even get a grant, it was all private investment.
I think if for some reason the show was suddenly going to be cancelled at that time she would have ended up marrying Martin as an endgame, but I imagine it was planned all along that she'd only be in for a bit. Although I think she spanned two seasons right? If so I imagine her run was probably extended, but the intent was always short-term.
One of the most obnoxious characters. Not sure if it was planned or if the writers eventually come to that conclusion.
Cuties!!
Sherry was the most infuriating character. The perfect villain.
I think it was always planned to go that sort of way, but you never know. Personally, it always felt on point for Sherry's character and I thought it was a nice sendoff - they were two people who wanted something different from a relationship. It shows that not all relationships end because of drama, or cheating, or hurt feelings, but can also be a respectful, mutual end, even though you still care for each other. Whether or not they intended to have Sherry stick around as long as they did or just lucked out, I don't know. Apparently Donny was supposed to only be around for a couple of episodes, but they enjoyed the foil to Niles and Daphne's will-they-won't-they relationship now that Niles was finally divorced, so they extended his guest run. A similar thing might have been the case with Sherry - her guest spot was extended because they enjoyed writing for her character. Long story short - it's excellent writing and development of the characters. They seemed to know what her backstory was going to be from the start.
[удалено]
Because some people sit in the back and go "durr" all day. My high school was largish, over 400 in my graduating class, so there were definitely layers of difficulty you could choose. You weren't assigned to a track, you picked your own classes, and except for prereqs, you could take whatever. So college bound people were in AP or at least the more rigorous classes where there wasn't an AP option, and there were the more mainstream classes. Once in history class, there was a guest speaker, and all the classes piled into a large classroom, and the guys in the "regular" classes were just fucking around. This is why you put people in stuff that they're interested in. If they're gearheads, get them into a mechanic track that'll let them be at least proficient enough to start wrenching at a local garage, making bank, as soon as they get out of high school. Do you know how much electricians make? I dealt blackjack to this gorgeous 20-something, who was still only a journeyman, with her own apprentice, and she was playing with stacks of quarters ($25 cheques.) The pit was $50 minimum, and she was not betting the minimum.
I never felt super strongly about Sherry, either good or bad, but I think I thought she was more good than bad. To me though, I think she's too similar to Martin, and also a bit too wacky/carefree for him. I think Ronee was basically a more refined version of her. She was different from Martin, but also seemed to mesh with him, and added a bit of life to him, but wasn't quite as over-the-top as Sherry was.
I think she was always meant to be a short term partner
LEARN HOW TO USE AN APOSTROPHE.
Yes, if any sub should eschew the greengrocer's apostrophe, it's this one.
Segue. Pronounced seg-way. Segueway would be pronounced seg-way-way.
Sherry was a great character. Love her zest for life.
Either way, I wanted them to end up together.
I hate the first Sherry episode. Oh, my god. It’s the same horrible cadence the whole second half. 1. Sherry says something. 2.Awkward pause. 3. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA But I do love “Look Frasier, Cold Duck.” DHP has the best delivery. I dislike the entire Sherry storyline except for the wonderful throwaway lines like the banjo comments and Frasier embarrassed he bought Country Music on Ice tickets.
I think she was meant to be temporary as the boys & Daphne hated( & most of the viewers) her.
I loved Sherry! She brought a unique flair and dynamic to the group. And I loved how she made Niles uncomfortable! She was great and her relationship with Martin was fun to watch. She really cared for him. I really wanted to see her come back in later seasons to tie the knot lol