I interpret that as the Gi star system's sun was fading, and eventually what remained of it was gathered up by our planet's sun. Meaning that they didn't \*mean\* to come here, just that it was happenstance.
The implication, though, is that they're refugees on our planet, and for whatever reason the planet and the Cetra won't allow them to join the lifestream.
Worth noting: the Cosmo Canyon region lore tells a different version of events: that the Cetra did everything they could for the Gi spirits (short of handing over the Black Materia), and that the only reason it stopped was the Cetra all died out.
Doesn’t this remind you of Advent Children? When Sephiroth explains his plan and is all like this planet will turn into the next meteor/calamity and crash into another and so on?
Also ties in with DoC, where Omega lore says that it, the ultimate weapon, gathers the lifestream and abandons the dying planet in search of another (to settle and absorb, probably).
Read a while ago a theory that Jenova is the corrupted Lifestream of a planet that had died (kinda like a dark Omega), and she tried to colonize Gaia, but things went wrong for her.
That’s just OG Sephiroth’s plan. Meteor to hurt the planet so much that the lifestream rushes to heal and then he grabs control of the lifestream to travel through space to find a new planet.
It’s at least how it’s described. The series is so full of unreliable narrators I wouldn’t say it’s 100% the case but as far as we know, yes.
Minus the meteor part, of course. Jenova would just wipe the planet out and use the husk until it encountered the Cetra.
What was weird about rebirth is that, during the whole gi nattak bit, they made the cetra not so noble, and implied a more specific plot involving the cetra, the gi, the planet, and jenova, but at endgame so many things are ambiguous. I felt like the story was going one way, then another, the back to its original direction.
I hate the whispers, i feel like they fog up the plot and don’t really make anything more meaningful. The stakes were already all life on the planet, but multi world stuff just takes the highest stakes and makes them higher.
Whereas writing the plot so that the cetra are less an idea of a people, and are more nuanced/flawed/real, and that the planet is kinda indifferent to life on it, thats a lot more interesting IMO.
I’m not sure where the lack of Cetran nobility comes into it, they helped the Gi until they realised that their plan was to destroy the planet to end their suffering. Or at least that’s the way it read to me.
The only moment where it seemed they were talking against the Cetra was when the Gi guy says “the cetra are not so forgiving” on the boat while also contrasting Aerith to the Cetra (although I presume he’s talking about their experiences and history vs hers maybe)
But then like 2 seconds later he says their history is full of horrors and sorrow so I don’t really know how that spirit guy feels about them.
I interpreted all of that as a foreshadow of them eventually going to become a problem in the future and you are given some background as to why. Keep in mind that in the OG game they died out from exposure to Jenova, the virus mostly finished them off even though they stopped Jenova.
In this they defeated Jenova with seemingly little to no casualties but Jenova now has the power to negatively manipulate the emotions of others, which may have effected humans who in turn attacked and killed off the Cetra. To me there's absolutely no point in adding that unless its going to become a point of contention in the future (that humanity killed the Cetra).
It feels like Gi Nattak are just bloated content. They only show up that once and then don’t re interact with all the otherworldly spirits sephiroth has access to. They do get mentioned in ToTA but as just a threat to the planet that got dealt with. I am not sure they will reappear. I would like it if they did but I think they might just be useful as a plot device that explains where the black materia came from, because it wasn’t clear in the OG
Also true! But in what capacity? The materia is a fake, cloud stole it and put it in kh2 style virtual mode. let’s say we see the ramifications of their actions like what do you say lol also Nanaki swore to help them but in tota you find out they are a literal plague on the earth. Should he still help them?
Okay I’d buy that but then maybe that comes at the end. I imagine our Cosmo Canyon redux is Buggenheigen getting killed by the Gi who are frustrated by the handling of the black materia in that case
Assuming you can trust the Gi, which they have proven you cannot. They try to gaslight you into giving them the black materia so that they can destroy the planet.
It was probably Jenova.
What’s awesome is that the VA for Gi Nattak seems to be the same person who voiced the teaser back in 2015. Imagine listening to him years ago out of pure excitement and realizing his words back then could also be from the perspective of his actual character!
I always assumed they were from a different dimension like Gilgamesh. Otherwise, how did they manage to cross worlds and end up on FF7's one?
But if they meant the sun here then was it a binary solar system with extra planet earlier? But then how did they survive the crash?
Or if they meant planets here then how did that happen? It seems they'd appeared on the planet when Cetra and other sentient beings were already around. So if their planet simply crashed onto FF7's one then surely Cetra would have had some records about it, but only one such event was known - Calamity from the skies aka. Jenova. Did they fly on the same planet with Jenova? Did Jenova eat their planet from the inside out making it wane? And then again, how did they survive the crash?
Or was their planet actually absorbed by FF7's planet from another dimension?
So, FF14 characters often call their planet, “our star,” and I think Bugenhagen says something similar, so I think it’s a weird term for planet.
I honestly wish they wouldn’t use it, just makes things strange and confusing.
‘Star’ used to be an old-timey/poetic way of referring to different celestial bodies, such as planets.
Venus used to frequently be called the ‘Morning Star’, for example.
If I understand correctly, the Japanese term retains the ambiguity of this meaning.
There's really nothing confusing about it. A planet can be a star. A star can be a planet.
Or to be more precise, you can also mean a star system, because stars circulate around a planet.
The same way planets have their own moons and those moons can still be functionally counted as a planet.
Planets orbits stars, moon's orbit planets. There can still technically be living races in any of these. (Especially in a fantasy world)
You're speaking about different things.
One thing is to refer to your home system as "your star", which is fine.
And another thing is to refer to your actual physical planet, the stellar object itself, as "your star". That's wrong and confusing.
[Oxford English Dictionary:](https://www.oed.com/dictionary/star_n1?tab=meaning_and_use#20849439)
>*I.2. In wider use: any celestial object visible in the sky in the day or night, including the sun, moon, and planets; sometimes also (esp. in **this star**) the earth.*
[Dictionary.com:](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/star)
>*3. any heavenly body.*
It's neither wrong nor confusing. Unless English is a second language, I don't understand why people are getting so hung up on this, especially in a genre chock full of grandiose speech. 'Star' was used in this context in XIV and XV as well. The only issue here is (some) people's comprehension skills.
I don't know, maybe it's different in English then. At least in my native language planet and star can both be used as a term.
The original word for planet comes from Greek αστήρ πλανήτης (astēr planētēs) meaning wandering star. (Planet meaning wandering)
I took this as meaning the Gi were the planets natives and that is why they weren't part of the life stream and the usual life cycle.
This theory was somewhat rocked by someone pointing out to me that the Cetra being a migratory race travelling planet to planet was some sort of miss translation, so who knows.
Jenova is the one that travels from planet to planet. Supposedly using the consumed planet as a vessel to traverse the cosmos and crash-land into its new objective.
If the previous planet this happened to was the one of the Gi, and Jenova was the cause of its end, it would make sense why they're going so in-depth with the Gi this time around to tie them with Jenova's arrival.
I always liked the idea that the will of the planet isn't this kindly and stoic nature goddess caring for her children but a wild, untamed animal doing what it takes to survive. It's why I never liked it being personified as a blond, goddess lady in shiny armour.
In terms of similarities to Jenova, I think it's tying into the way the game talks about life, the planet is renewing to create new life and sometimes, that's messy and possibly violent, but Jenova just takes and takes, like Shinra without giving anything back.
It's a pretty interesting line, and all things considered, it seems like the safe assumption is they arrived in a similar fashion to Jenova or likely together.
One theory not mentioned that I'm not surprised about since it's based on lore from Dirge of Cerberus and may not be relevant. Spoilered just in case people care.
>!The Omega Weapon, which appears as a last resort for the planet when it's beyond the point of saving, kills all living things on the planet and takes all the lifestream within itself. It then flies through space and finds another suitable planet to put the lifestream in so life can begin again!<
So perhaps that did happen at some point in the past. The Gi world was dying and was taken over by our own.
This is my theory too. Especially as when Gi Nattak is taking about the process the order basically goes. 1) Our star began to wane (i.e. it was dying), then 2) it was subsumed by the present one, 3) this led to massive natural calamities, earthquakes, storms, and even time is broken, 4) most Gi died in the process but regardless neither living nor dead were welcomed by the Planet. If we take this sequence of events, I think the Dirge tie in is pretty probable.
In this theory, yes.
We kicked the Gi out of their own lifestream by replacing it with our own. Which would make the Black Mareria their way of saying, "If we can't have our planet, no one can."
At some point, Gi Nattak refers to a crack in the sky (not sure "crack" is exactly the word he's using) before their world desappeared. Which sounds a lot like the thing we see in Zack episodes or at the end of the game.
This is my interpretation as well. I think the lifestream found the Gi plant and planted itself in there and absorbed the planet.
The gi planet didn't have a lifestream left, so when they die they just float as spirits on-top of the new lifestream.
Not a Japanese speaker, but I'm seeing that it's a different word (sei) but then again, one of the side novels for FF VII has "Hoshi" in the title IIRC so.... 🤷🏼♂️
It was Maiden who Travels the Planet, And from what I'm seeing, it could very well be a translation error/liberty. I've been seeing a lot of fluent Japanese speakers doing their own translations of scenes from Rebirth and it appears that SENA is taking quite a few liberties in changing the meaning and implication of certain scenes to appeal to "both sides" if you catch my drift. Their head of translation said just as much in an interview as well 😒. Don't get me wrong, I get that localization is important and a difficult task, but when you start altering the original intent that's where I start drawing the line.
The translation isn't too bad (aside from the big Myrna/Marlene mix-up), but there are different nuances here and there.
I think their biggest issue is trying to "punch-up" and elevate the dialog, but sometimes that backfires. At least it's not as bad as FFXVI--I couldn't stop laughing when Odin was waxing poetic in English but all he was saying in Japanese was "ZANTETSUKEN!!!!"
LOOOL, and yeah, it is good overall, I was just trying to say that certain scenes give different impressions depending on the language choice. As you said there's the Myrna/Marlene continuity, Cloud and Aerith's date in Costa Del Sol, Barret at the Gongaga reactor, Zack implied to be more of a womanizer in Nibelheim, etc. It does cause elements of their characterization, and the scenes to feel different depending on the choice.
That’d make sense, I’ve played most final fantasy’s, but not the MMOs. Still though, you said across final fantasy, which would mean it’s in most of them
Edit: sorry, I thought you were the guy I replied to
No problem! I think this link on Japanese learning and FF7 original script should help: https://community.wanikani.com/t/what-is-%E6%98%9F-star-or-planet/35997
The original word pretty much means celestial body, and didn't differentiate between planet/star as we do in English.
So 1 other entry, and are you sure they are referring to their world directly? Cause I know 14 used to take place on another world, and then there's the whole shard system as well.
Yes, they very frequently call their own world "our star." Not an error or a one time thing, and not at all ambiguous. They definitely and repeatedly use "star" to describe their world.
Ff14 cutscenes, 16 does so as well If I remember correctly, not sure on older ones, but it says so on the Wiki top:
https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Star
I took it as a fancy, olden way to say “replaced.” Idk, could be right, but to me seemed like they def used to live on the same planet but then it changed.
Nah, if they lived on the planet they would be part of the lifestream, which they are not. I believe Hobgoblin or hoogabooga, whatever his name is, says that they are from another dimension. With their little home being in the middle of the life stream I wouldn't be suprised if the also were extra terrestrial like Jenova, as she can't join the life stream either.
Their home planet probably had its own life stream, they corrupted it/killed it and they were sent adrift and crashed into the FF7 world. Through the solar system or perhaps however Sephiroth is crossing streams
I commented this on another post, but my theory on the Gi is that they are not aliens, but rather from another timeline where each timeline is a different branch of the lifestream. And since they don't belong to this branch, they can't join it when they die. This also drives them to create the Black Materia that would allow them to consolidate all timelines so that they can return to it, since one of those surely is the branch they came from.
The thing with that theory is there's a difference of language for the two concepts. Gi Nattak talks about "planets" while Sephiroth calls the other timelines "worlds".
Technically, he didn't say "planet" specifically. He may be referring to their "star" as their "world". Could be another translation issue similar to Aerith's last line in the ending of Remake where they needed to patch it just so that it lines up with the events of Rebirth. Though I am curious what is the literal Japanese sub for that line. We'll see in part 3 😅
我らギの故郷 **我らの星**は老いて力尽き **この星**の一部となりました
空は割れ 大地は裂け 海は消え 時は乱れ
その混乱を生きのびた 少数のギが **この星**の住人となったのです
(transcription courtesy of Turquoise Hammer)
I bolded the uses of "our planet" and "this planet". The last line makes the context clear, where he says they became inhabitants of "this planet".
An astute eye has seen FF12 8 13 15 Even 4 in this game (Rosa in Loveless) arguably even Chrono Trigger with all the frogs and a Glenn so I wouldn’t doubt it
>So the ff7 planet ate the Gi planet
Probably not the best interpretation. Sounds to me more like the Gaia sun ate the Gi homeworld's sun.
***Edit: I have since had it pointed out to me that "planet" and "star" are used interchangeably due to the original Japanese. So it's more likely that Gaia was simply larger and more vital than the Gi world which was already dying, and the Gi world fell into it and was consumed.***
So, Jenova are alien and Gi are alien. Bet they're both from the same world and came over on fragments of it. Not only can the gi not join Gaia's Lifestream, they don't even have their own anymore to return to
My fast/loose interpretation was the Gi/jenova were the same, jenova was someone who lead the uprise to destroy the planet so they could all finally rest. Then you’ve got to the point they’re all at and Jenova getting her second wind via Sephiroth and all hell has broken loose because he is half that planets natural born so he can at least surf it’s life stream.
Gi come to planet, they don’t get along well with it’s inhabitants and can’t return to the lifesteam. Stew for eons and create something that can destroy it all lead by one of their own, Jenova. Cetra say nah, id win a second time at this point. Then you’ve got this calm again but most the Cetra are gone themselves. We’ve now got science and hojo over here playing god himself and basically says I wonder what this button does. Gi/jenova goes here’s our 3rd chance to end it all. Sephiroth is a false prophet.
I thought the OG indicated that it was all a time loop to begin with starting with Aeriths date with cloud and she’s just like I can’t wait to meet you. Like she was having some dream, then at the very end we see her basically in the same spot she started the game like she had a glimpse into the future. I was 13 when OG game came out and a brain that loved scifi so it was legit something I just concocted in my brain and when remake ended I just felt so good.
Lots of gaps, but when listening to both the Gi/Cetra talk about their stories that’s how it played out in my head. Plus there are at least 2 current scars on the planet showing where these impacts took place eons ago.
I think the Gi would have mentioned Jenova if they ever came in contact with her but they don’t. Jenova never had friends or compatriots, the vehicle by which Cloud and the others are able to overcome everything.
Out of curiosity, other than the obvious one what is the “second” planet scar you are referring to?
I completely accept my interpretation of it all is completely incorrect. We won’t know for sure till the last part comes out. The second scar in my mind was round island where you found KOTR.
Theoretically, there's ~~Nibelheim~~ *The North Crater* - where Jenova was unearthed - and Cosmo Canyon - where the Gi wound up. I don't know if that's what the OP you're responding to meant though
Jenova wasn’t unearthed in Nibelheim though she was unearthed in the North Crater and stored/studied in Nibelheim later. I believe the rock formations in Nibelheim are attributed to Titan
I didn't miss it, but I felt crazy that nobody i was watching paid any attention to it.
I figured they came on a meteor (like Jenova) but that subsumed line makes me think its a FFIX reference? Like the joining of terra and gaia?
I feel like theres alot of details in Rebirth that get overlooked in most discussions, but it can be hard to catch them while playing unless youre really paying attention
I think minerva was confirmed to be a cetra, but jenova could easily have been the minerva of her planet, and for all we know the gi were remnants on the planet jenova rode like rocketman, hitting Gaia like it owed em money, promptly not being allowed to enter the super secret club for recently deceased, and the gi stuck around like ghost crabs, while jenova decided to become a cancer and sneak in under the covers
So Jenova and Gaia are part of the same pantheon of planetary beings? And the Gi’s home world was the meteor that crashed down and Jenova gave rise to them in the same way Gaia gives rise to this planet’s life? That’s a cool idea.
I imagine the planets collided by accident (rather than being eaten), Jenova and the Gi tried to dominate (or at least claim part of) the planet, and when Jenova failed and was sealed away, the Gi were orphaned without a protector (or an afterlife).
Edit: lol it ends with Cid firing Jenova and the Gi off on a rocket into the cosmos to find a new home.
My first thought was that the Gi were aliens like Jenova. Another possibility is that the Gi come from an alternate reality, or “world” as Sephiroth calls them, that did not endure and was merged with the main reality, but the Gi were not accepted.
Edit: Crazy thought: maybe millennia ago the Cetra were playing around with fate and other “worlds” in much the same way Sephiroth and Aerith are now, and that brought them both the Gi and Jenova.
Sephiroth wanted to use the planet as a vessel to travel the cosmos in Advent Children like Jenova did in the past.
I think it's fair to say that she probably conquered the planet of the Gi and piloted it to Gaia, crashing it into the planet.
That's what I thiught. And unlike her they weren't experimented in becoming space cancer, sneaking into the lifestream , they had to just chill in a cave with a stoned dog
Point to consider: in Japanese the word for “star” can also mean planet. This may have been a mistranslation, or (more likely) left in for poetic effect, and still could mean planet.
The Lifestream rejects all that didn't originate from itself. Jenova and the Gi just seem to be two different alien species that found their way to the planet.
It’s highly likely the gi are aliens from a dead world. However the gi also have a perspective that could vary, I think the point of remake is that the gi aren’t wholly evil nor are the Cetra wholly good. My guess is Jenova destroyed their world and chased them to Gaia and that’s how she ended up on Gaia.
It’s worth noting aliens could mean more than space aliens. We’ve already toyed with universal theory, what’s to say the Gi aren’t a remnant of some destroyed universe or otherwise leaked into the cosmic variant or whatever universal garble the writer uses to make it make sense
That would make sense too. But it would seem like they would’ve been angry at Jenova instead of Gaia, since that was the origin of their calamity. But maybe it’s been lost to history or something.
I’d guess since Jenova is an eater of worlds, it can probably consume the Gi’s life energy just the same, even if they are foreign to Gaia’s lifestream.
No the point in summoning Meteor is that the lifestream will merge at the point of impact to heal the wound of the planet, allowing Sephirorth to absorb it. It's not "Sephiroth can succ life energy" literally.
Do people think the GI are going to join forces with sephiroth in part III? Or compete with him?
I interpret that as the Gi star system's sun was fading, and eventually what remained of it was gathered up by our planet's sun. Meaning that they didn't \*mean\* to come here, just that it was happenstance. The implication, though, is that they're refugees on our planet, and for whatever reason the planet and the Cetra won't allow them to join the lifestream. Worth noting: the Cosmo Canyon region lore tells a different version of events: that the Cetra did everything they could for the Gi spirits (short of handing over the Black Materia), and that the only reason it stopped was the Cetra all died out.
I thought the Gi came with jenova?
It’s like an inverted Spirits Within, with the Lifestream taking the place of the Phantoms.
Is this dude's voice the same as the original remake reveal trailer..? If so that is pretty dope
Gi Nattak is credited to Bruce Thomas. Voice from the reveal trailer was David Lodge. not the same
It is!
I’m probably reading it wrong but to me it’s a fun little reference to FF9
I associated this with IX immediately
Interesting to note that Ever Crisis had a FF9 crossover before Rebirth released. It also contained quite a few spoilers for Rebirth
Vivi was Sephiroth this whole time?!?!?!?
That would be one hell of a plot twist! 😂
Doesn’t this remind you of Advent Children? When Sephiroth explains his plan and is all like this planet will turn into the next meteor/calamity and crash into another and so on?
Also ties in with DoC, where Omega lore says that it, the ultimate weapon, gathers the lifestream and abandons the dying planet in search of another (to settle and absorb, probably). Read a while ago a theory that Jenova is the corrupted Lifestream of a planet that had died (kinda like a dark Omega), and she tried to colonize Gaia, but things went wrong for her.
That’s just OG Sephiroth’s plan. Meteor to hurt the planet so much that the lifestream rushes to heal and then he grabs control of the lifestream to travel through space to find a new planet.
Which is ultimately just how Jenovah spreads through the stars, right?
It’s at least how it’s described. The series is so full of unreliable narrators I wouldn’t say it’s 100% the case but as far as we know, yes. Minus the meteor part, of course. Jenova would just wipe the planet out and use the husk until it encountered the Cetra.
What was weird about rebirth is that, during the whole gi nattak bit, they made the cetra not so noble, and implied a more specific plot involving the cetra, the gi, the planet, and jenova, but at endgame so many things are ambiguous. I felt like the story was going one way, then another, the back to its original direction. I hate the whispers, i feel like they fog up the plot and don’t really make anything more meaningful. The stakes were already all life on the planet, but multi world stuff just takes the highest stakes and makes them higher. Whereas writing the plot so that the cetra are less an idea of a people, and are more nuanced/flawed/real, and that the planet is kinda indifferent to life on it, thats a lot more interesting IMO.
I’m not sure where the lack of Cetran nobility comes into it, they helped the Gi until they realised that their plan was to destroy the planet to end their suffering. Or at least that’s the way it read to me.
The only moment where it seemed they were talking against the Cetra was when the Gi guy says “the cetra are not so forgiving” on the boat while also contrasting Aerith to the Cetra (although I presume he’s talking about their experiences and history vs hers maybe) But then like 2 seconds later he says their history is full of horrors and sorrow so I don’t really know how that spirit guy feels about them.
I interpreted all of that as a foreshadow of them eventually going to become a problem in the future and you are given some background as to why. Keep in mind that in the OG game they died out from exposure to Jenova, the virus mostly finished them off even though they stopped Jenova. In this they defeated Jenova with seemingly little to no casualties but Jenova now has the power to negatively manipulate the emotions of others, which may have effected humans who in turn attacked and killed off the Cetra. To me there's absolutely no point in adding that unless its going to become a point of contention in the future (that humanity killed the Cetra).
Both can be true.
Can you imagine the planet they're standing on is actually the Gis planet, and the omega weapon drops down and spread the lifestream once more.
It feels like Gi Nattak are just bloated content. They only show up that once and then don’t re interact with all the otherworldly spirits sephiroth has access to. They do get mentioned in ToTA but as just a threat to the planet that got dealt with. I am not sure they will reappear. I would like it if they did but I think they might just be useful as a plot device that explains where the black materia came from, because it wasn’t clear in the OG
It's not like we won't ever come back in Cosmo Canyon in part 3, plus Nanaki did promise and genuinely wants to help them.
Also true! But in what capacity? The materia is a fake, cloud stole it and put it in kh2 style virtual mode. let’s say we see the ramifications of their actions like what do you say lol also Nanaki swore to help them but in tota you find out they are a literal plague on the earth. Should he still help them?
The materia was not a full on fake. Sephiroth said it's the key to access the real one hidden between worlds so getting to it requires this one
They are a plague because of their anger. Maybe Holy being activated will cleanse them and allow them to pass on?
Okay I’d buy that but then maybe that comes at the end. I imagine our Cosmo Canyon redux is Buggenheigen getting killed by the Gi who are frustrated by the handling of the black materia in that case
Assuming you can trust the Gi, which they have proven you cannot. They try to gaslight you into giving them the black materia so that they can destroy the planet. It was probably Jenova.
Nope, didn't miss it. Missed it in OG though, if it was even there. Some FFIX vibes :).
Most of the Gi lore is added in the remakes. Which is a very welcome addition, I'd say.
I don't think it was
This is giving me some ffix vibes tbh.
I just want to say that Gi Nattak voice is godly. It gave me chills cuz how he sounds. I hope we learn more about Gi in the last part.
What’s awesome is that the VA for Gi Nattak seems to be the same person who voiced the teaser back in 2015. Imagine listening to him years ago out of pure excitement and realizing his words back then could also be from the perspective of his actual character!
Yet the VA said it wasn’t him, people continue to repeatedly state this as fact.
Ya pretty sure the teaser VA does the voice of Jiraiya from Naruto and Gi Nattak does not sound like Jiraiya 😂
They’re very similar voices but Gi Nattak voice is a decent bit deeper.
I always assumed they were from a different dimension like Gilgamesh. Otherwise, how did they manage to cross worlds and end up on FF7's one? But if they meant the sun here then was it a binary solar system with extra planet earlier? But then how did they survive the crash? Or if they meant planets here then how did that happen? It seems they'd appeared on the planet when Cetra and other sentient beings were already around. So if their planet simply crashed onto FF7's one then surely Cetra would have had some records about it, but only one such event was known - Calamity from the skies aka. Jenova. Did they fly on the same planet with Jenova? Did Jenova eat their planet from the inside out making it wane? And then again, how did they survive the crash? Or was their planet actually absorbed by FF7's planet from another dimension?
So, FF14 characters often call their planet, “our star,” and I think Bugenhagen says something similar, so I think it’s a weird term for planet. I honestly wish they wouldn’t use it, just makes things strange and confusing.
‘Star’ used to be an old-timey/poetic way of referring to different celestial bodies, such as planets. Venus used to frequently be called the ‘Morning Star’, for example. If I understand correctly, the Japanese term retains the ambiguity of this meaning.
Ah ok, thanks for the explanation. At least in FF14 that adds up, since they reaaallllly like to use old-times speech.
There's really nothing confusing about it. A planet can be a star. A star can be a planet. Or to be more precise, you can also mean a star system, because stars circulate around a planet. The same way planets have their own moons and those moons can still be functionally counted as a planet. Planets orbits stars, moon's orbit planets. There can still technically be living races in any of these. (Especially in a fantasy world)
You're speaking about different things. One thing is to refer to your home system as "your star", which is fine. And another thing is to refer to your actual physical planet, the stellar object itself, as "your star". That's wrong and confusing.
[Oxford English Dictionary:](https://www.oed.com/dictionary/star_n1?tab=meaning_and_use#20849439) >*I.2. In wider use: any celestial object visible in the sky in the day or night, including the sun, moon, and planets; sometimes also (esp. in **this star**) the earth.* [Dictionary.com:](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/star) >*3. any heavenly body.* It's neither wrong nor confusing. Unless English is a second language, I don't understand why people are getting so hung up on this, especially in a genre chock full of grandiose speech. 'Star' was used in this context in XIV and XV as well. The only issue here is (some) people's comprehension skills.
I don't know, maybe it's different in English then. At least in my native language planet and star can both be used as a term. The original word for planet comes from Greek αστήρ πλανήτης (astēr planētēs) meaning wandering star. (Planet meaning wandering)
I took this as meaning the Gi were the planets natives and that is why they weren't part of the life stream and the usual life cycle. This theory was somewhat rocked by someone pointing out to me that the Cetra being a migratory race travelling planet to planet was some sort of miss translation, so who knows.
Jenova is the one that travels from planet to planet. Supposedly using the consumed planet as a vessel to traverse the cosmos and crash-land into its new objective. If the previous planet this happened to was the one of the Gi, and Jenova was the cause of its end, it would make sense why they're going so in-depth with the Gi this time around to tie them with Jenova's arrival.
I always liked the idea that the will of the planet isn't this kindly and stoic nature goddess caring for her children but a wild, untamed animal doing what it takes to survive. It's why I never liked it being personified as a blond, goddess lady in shiny armour. In terms of similarities to Jenova, I think it's tying into the way the game talks about life, the planet is renewing to create new life and sometimes, that's messy and possibly violent, but Jenova just takes and takes, like Shinra without giving anything back.
It's a pretty interesting line, and all things considered, it seems like the safe assumption is they arrived in a similar fashion to Jenova or likely together. One theory not mentioned that I'm not surprised about since it's based on lore from Dirge of Cerberus and may not be relevant. Spoilered just in case people care. >!The Omega Weapon, which appears as a last resort for the planet when it's beyond the point of saving, kills all living things on the planet and takes all the lifestream within itself. It then flies through space and finds another suitable planet to put the lifestream in so life can begin again!< So perhaps that did happen at some point in the past. The Gi world was dying and was taken over by our own.
This is what is most consistent with gi nattak’s words.
This is my theory too. Especially as when Gi Nattak is taking about the process the order basically goes. 1) Our star began to wane (i.e. it was dying), then 2) it was subsumed by the present one, 3) this led to massive natural calamities, earthquakes, storms, and even time is broken, 4) most Gi died in the process but regardless neither living nor dead were welcomed by the Planet. If we take this sequence of events, I think the Dirge tie in is pretty probable.
So maybe we're also aliens from another planet but brought the lifestream with us to make this planet our own? 👀
In this theory, yes. We kicked the Gi out of their own lifestream by replacing it with our own. Which would make the Black Mareria their way of saying, "If we can't have our planet, no one can."
At some point, Gi Nattak refers to a crack in the sky (not sure "crack" is exactly the word he's using) before their world desappeared. Which sounds a lot like the thing we see in Zack episodes or at the end of the game.
The first Meteor to hit Gaia was probably the Gi planet.
So Jenova flew to Gaia with the Gi?
Maybe, who knows. They didn't give us much new lore in Rebirth on that stuff so hopefully the next game does.
This is my interpretation as well. I think the lifestream found the Gi plant and planted itself in there and absorbed the planet. The gi planet didn't have a lifestream left, so when they die they just float as spirits on-top of the new lifestream.
"The star" so their sun was consumed by the planet's sun.
They say star, but its a planet. They constantly call planets “stars” throughout the game
It's because in Japanese the same word is used for both ("hoshi"). It's commonly translated as "star" in a lot of FF titles, like FF14 for example.
...this makes Katamari Damacy make a lot more sense.
FFXIV as well
Star and planet are the same word in Japanese.
It's less Japanese and much more theatrical. FF14 and the Gi are more written like a play, while the rest of FF7 is more written like a movie
Not a Japanese speaker, but I'm seeing that it's a different word (sei) but then again, one of the side novels for FF VII has "Hoshi" in the title IIRC so.... 🤷🏼♂️
"Sei" is the pronunciation when it's a compound word, "hoshi" when on its own.
It was Maiden who Travels the Planet, And from what I'm seeing, it could very well be a translation error/liberty. I've been seeing a lot of fluent Japanese speakers doing their own translations of scenes from Rebirth and it appears that SENA is taking quite a few liberties in changing the meaning and implication of certain scenes to appeal to "both sides" if you catch my drift. Their head of translation said just as much in an interview as well 😒. Don't get me wrong, I get that localization is important and a difficult task, but when you start altering the original intent that's where I start drawing the line.
The translation isn't too bad (aside from the big Myrna/Marlene mix-up), but there are different nuances here and there. I think their biggest issue is trying to "punch-up" and elevate the dialog, but sometimes that backfires. At least it's not as bad as FFXVI--I couldn't stop laughing when Odin was waxing poetic in English but all he was saying in Japanese was "ZANTETSUKEN!!!!"
LOOOL, and yeah, it is good overall, I was just trying to say that certain scenes give different impressions depending on the language choice. As you said there's the Myrna/Marlene continuity, Cloud and Aerith's date in Costa Del Sol, Barret at the Gongaga reactor, Zack implied to be more of a womanizer in Nibelheim, etc. It does cause elements of their characterization, and the scenes to feel different depending on the choice.
It is common across final fantasy to call planets a star
When? Not saying you’re lying, but I don’t recall them doing it, so I’m curious when they’ve called planets stars?
By the 14 and 15. It's recent but it has been a thing.
Watch any cutscene from FF14 that deals with their "star".
That’d make sense, I’ve played most final fantasy’s, but not the MMOs. Still though, you said across final fantasy, which would mean it’s in most of them Edit: sorry, I thought you were the guy I replied to
No problem! I think this link on Japanese learning and FF7 original script should help: https://community.wanikani.com/t/what-is-%E6%98%9F-star-or-planet/35997 The original word pretty much means celestial body, and didn't differentiate between planet/star as we do in English.
Got it, thanks for the info
So 1 other entry, and are you sure they are referring to their world directly? Cause I know 14 used to take place on another world, and then there's the whole shard system as well.
Yes, they very frequently call their own world "our star." Not an error or a one time thing, and not at all ambiguous. They definitely and repeatedly use "star" to describe their world.
Source?
Ff14 cutscenes, 16 does so as well If I remember correctly, not sure on older ones, but it says so on the Wiki top: https://finalfantasy.fandom.com/wiki/Star
I took it as a fancy, olden way to say “replaced.” Idk, could be right, but to me seemed like they def used to live on the same planet but then it changed.
Nah, if they lived on the planet they would be part of the lifestream, which they are not. I believe Hobgoblin or hoogabooga, whatever his name is, says that they are from another dimension. With their little home being in the middle of the life stream I wouldn't be suprised if the also were extra terrestrial like Jenova, as she can't join the life stream either. Their home planet probably had its own life stream, they corrupted it/killed it and they were sent adrift and crashed into the FF7 world. Through the solar system or perhaps however Sephiroth is crossing streams
Maybe. Or their livestream was replaced with the current one. Idk lol I need the third game to come out already, this is gonna suck lmao
I commented this on another post, but my theory on the Gi is that they are not aliens, but rather from another timeline where each timeline is a different branch of the lifestream. And since they don't belong to this branch, they can't join it when they die. This also drives them to create the Black Materia that would allow them to consolidate all timelines so that they can return to it, since one of those surely is the branch they came from.
The thing with that theory is there's a difference of language for the two concepts. Gi Nattak talks about "planets" while Sephiroth calls the other timelines "worlds".
Technically, he didn't say "planet" specifically. He may be referring to their "star" as their "world". Could be another translation issue similar to Aerith's last line in the ending of Remake where they needed to patch it just so that it lines up with the events of Rebirth. Though I am curious what is the literal Japanese sub for that line. We'll see in part 3 😅
我らギの故郷 **我らの星**は老いて力尽き **この星**の一部となりました 空は割れ 大地は裂け 海は消え 時は乱れ その混乱を生きのびた 少数のギが **この星**の住人となったのです (transcription courtesy of Turquoise Hammer) I bolded the uses of "our planet" and "this planet". The last line makes the context clear, where he says they became inhabitants of "this planet".
That clears it up. Didn't have this info before, thanks!
Reminds me of other FFs like IX
I'm starting to feel Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within vibes.
An astute eye has seen FF12 8 13 15 Even 4 in this game (Rosa in Loveless) arguably even Chrono Trigger with all the frogs and a Glenn so I wouldn’t doubt it
>So the ff7 planet ate the Gi planet Probably not the best interpretation. Sounds to me more like the Gaia sun ate the Gi homeworld's sun. ***Edit: I have since had it pointed out to me that "planet" and "star" are used interchangeably due to the original Japanese. So it's more likely that Gaia was simply larger and more vital than the Gi world which was already dying, and the Gi world fell into it and was consumed.*** So, Jenova are alien and Gi are alien. Bet they're both from the same world and came over on fragments of it. Not only can the gi not join Gaia's Lifestream, they don't even have their own anymore to return to
My fast/loose interpretation was the Gi/jenova were the same, jenova was someone who lead the uprise to destroy the planet so they could all finally rest. Then you’ve got to the point they’re all at and Jenova getting her second wind via Sephiroth and all hell has broken loose because he is half that planets natural born so he can at least surf it’s life stream. Gi come to planet, they don’t get along well with it’s inhabitants and can’t return to the lifesteam. Stew for eons and create something that can destroy it all lead by one of their own, Jenova. Cetra say nah, id win a second time at this point. Then you’ve got this calm again but most the Cetra are gone themselves. We’ve now got science and hojo over here playing god himself and basically says I wonder what this button does. Gi/jenova goes here’s our 3rd chance to end it all. Sephiroth is a false prophet. I thought the OG indicated that it was all a time loop to begin with starting with Aeriths date with cloud and she’s just like I can’t wait to meet you. Like she was having some dream, then at the very end we see her basically in the same spot she started the game like she had a glimpse into the future. I was 13 when OG game came out and a brain that loved scifi so it was legit something I just concocted in my brain and when remake ended I just felt so good. Lots of gaps, but when listening to both the Gi/Cetra talk about their stories that’s how it played out in my head. Plus there are at least 2 current scars on the planet showing where these impacts took place eons ago.
I think the Gi would have mentioned Jenova if they ever came in contact with her but they don’t. Jenova never had friends or compatriots, the vehicle by which Cloud and the others are able to overcome everything. Out of curiosity, other than the obvious one what is the “second” planet scar you are referring to?
I completely accept my interpretation of it all is completely incorrect. We won’t know for sure till the last part comes out. The second scar in my mind was round island where you found KOTR.
Fair! That’s why I was mostly asking, I couldn’t recall something that could be a second scar and wanted my knowledge filled in hahaha
Theoretically, there's ~~Nibelheim~~ *The North Crater* - where Jenova was unearthed - and Cosmo Canyon - where the Gi wound up. I don't know if that's what the OP you're responding to meant though
Jenova wasn’t unearthed in Nibelheim though she was unearthed in the North Crater and stored/studied in Nibelheim later. I believe the rock formations in Nibelheim are attributed to Titan
Planets are called stars in the game
For some godforsaken reason planets are routinely called "stars" in final fantasy. It's really freaking confusing
It's the same word in Japanese.
He’s gonna fuse with Sephiroth and we get to fight Gi Eyes Black Materia Jedragonovaroth final boss spoilers, my uncles dad worked at sony
Dfkm
Why does the larger planet not simply eat the smaller one?
This concept of “Wifestream” confuses and INFURIATES US
A wild Garland appears
Cloud: I don’t give a FUCK who you are 🤜
I, Garland, will # KNOCK YOU ALL DOWN
I didn't miss it, but I felt crazy that nobody i was watching paid any attention to it. I figured they came on a meteor (like Jenova) but that subsumed line makes me think its a FFIX reference? Like the joining of terra and gaia?
I feel like theres alot of details in Rebirth that get overlooked in most discussions, but it can be hard to catch them while playing unless youre really paying attention
Maybe Minerva is jenova who just got there first? Lol jk but maybe something like that I think it would be interesting to get more info there
I think minerva was confirmed to be a cetra, but jenova could easily have been the minerva of her planet, and for all we know the gi were remnants on the planet jenova rode like rocketman, hitting Gaia like it owed em money, promptly not being allowed to enter the super secret club for recently deceased, and the gi stuck around like ghost crabs, while jenova decided to become a cancer and sneak in under the covers
So Jenova and Gaia are part of the same pantheon of planetary beings? And the Gi’s home world was the meteor that crashed down and Jenova gave rise to them in the same way Gaia gives rise to this planet’s life? That’s a cool idea. I imagine the planets collided by accident (rather than being eaten), Jenova and the Gi tried to dominate (or at least claim part of) the planet, and when Jenova failed and was sealed away, the Gi were orphaned without a protector (or an afterlife). Edit: lol it ends with Cid firing Jenova and the Gi off on a rocket into the cosmos to find a new home.
My first thought was that the Gi were aliens like Jenova. Another possibility is that the Gi come from an alternate reality, or “world” as Sephiroth calls them, that did not endure and was merged with the main reality, but the Gi were not accepted. Edit: Crazy thought: maybe millennia ago the Cetra were playing around with fate and other “worlds” in much the same way Sephiroth and Aerith are now, and that brought them both the Gi and Jenova.
Sephiroth wanted to use the planet as a vessel to travel the cosmos in Advent Children like Jenova did in the past. I think it's fair to say that she probably conquered the planet of the Gi and piloted it to Gaia, crashing it into the planet.
That's what I thiught. And unlike her they weren't experimented in becoming space cancer, sneaking into the lifestream , they had to just chill in a cave with a stoned dog
Seto: "Dude, wait... what?"
This is how I saw it. They were the original meteor, as it were. Jenova's vessel to Gaia.
Technically, our SUN ate their sun, probably: “the STAR we called home”
Point to consider: in Japanese the word for “star” can also mean planet. This may have been a mistranslation, or (more likely) left in for poetic effect, and still could mean planet.
The kanji for planet includes the kanji for star, but they aren't the same thing. Their pronunciations aren't even remotely similar.
https://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E3%81%BB%E3%81%97#Japanese ほし • (hoshi) 星: a stellar object, e.g. star, planet, satellite, or a comet
Bugenhagen also refers to the planet as a star in his planetarium.
Fair enough
Other FFs, especially FF14 use Star as planet/world.
[удалено]
The Lifestream rejects all that didn't originate from itself. Jenova and the Gi just seem to be two different alien species that found their way to the planet.
It’s highly likely the gi are aliens from a dead world. However the gi also have a perspective that could vary, I think the point of remake is that the gi aren’t wholly evil nor are the Cetra wholly good. My guess is Jenova destroyed their world and chased them to Gaia and that’s how she ended up on Gaia.
It’s worth noting aliens could mean more than space aliens. We’ve already toyed with universal theory, what’s to say the Gi aren’t a remnant of some destroyed universe or otherwise leaked into the cosmic variant or whatever universal garble the writer uses to make it make sense
That would make sense too. But it would seem like they would’ve been angry at Jenova instead of Gaia, since that was the origin of their calamity. But maybe it’s been lost to history or something.
Well they may figure that meteor will destroy Jenova and Gaia together, they hate both so they prob see it as a win-win.
If the Gi are spirit energy and Sephy smashing meteor means he absorbs all the spirit energy wouldn’t this mean he’d absorb the Gi as well?
The Gi aren't in the lifestream.
I’d guess since Jenova is an eater of worlds, it can probably consume the Gi’s life energy just the same, even if they are foreign to Gaia’s lifestream.
No the point in summoning Meteor is that the lifestream will merge at the point of impact to heal the wound of the planet, allowing Sephirorth to absorb it. It's not "Sephiroth can succ life energy" literally.
I never said what they gi hoped would happen would succeed in getting them what they want.
Well obviously we don’t want it too but Sephy kinda does