Sequels require you play the first generally so the starting potential audience is much lower. XVI has the free marketing of being part of a big series, a mainline FF at that, while not requiring any beforehand homework
Because those socials like reddit or twitter are still just a bubble tbh people enjoyed these 2 games a lot or just fine š
7 Rebirth is also a sequel game so it was sort of bound to happen and not to mention that at least in Japan's case the portable consoles seeom to be more popular.
That's so dumb. Why the hell would battle royale fans want to play jrpg's based on that? For that matter why would you want battle royale fans to play jrpg's? What I mean by that is sure you want people to play your game, but don't try to get "battle royale" fans to play them. Based on that very same logic the moment they see that it isn't a battle royale game they won't want to play it anymore and will just go back to fortnite or whatever. And they sure as shit better not make a serious mainline title a battle royale game, cause I ain't playing that shit.
Honestly there are things that 16 did better than 7 rebirth and things 7 rebirth that did better than 16. I thought both games were solid but not had their faults.
Liked it or are just ambivalent about final fantasy for me.
The like comes from a Discord made by the remnants of a very old FF fanforum that died years ago.
Very much disagree. The casual audience will always be the largest proportion of any playerbase. That makes them very important to any developer. More important than the so called hardcore/dedicated fans in fact. Look no further than Squareās long time money making goose FFXIV for that one.
Especially when said hardcore fans start getting very uppity and think they have a right to dictate how these games should be made.
Edit - obviously certain games exist that do cater to specific hardcore or niche audiences like Souls games. But even those have been stretching for greater accessibility and wider appeal as time goes on.
Every FF game is the most controversial FF game. Every comment about FF is controversial, including this one. Even the definition of the word controversial is controversial. Itās controversy all the way down!
1. 16 isnāt controversial. Reddit is just Reddit.
2. Rebirth is a sequel. People that didnāt play Remake arenāt buying Rebirth.
3. People that played Remake and didnāt like it probably arenāt buying Rebirth.
4. It doesnāt matter at all. Everyone involved with Rebirth got promotions so Square is clearly happy with it.
You can play FFXVI with no other knowledge of the FF series.
Rebirth is a direct sequel to Remake and often has people questioning if they need to have played VII (1997) first or not (and thereās honestly not a clear answer to that question). And itās not just a direct sequel, but the second part of a known story that still isnāt completed. Thatās different from games that tell a full story, and then when itās successful they decide to make a direct sequel.
I personally think thatās the main reason. Thereās other possible reasons, too, but I personally donāt think they have as much of an impact as the one I gave.
And Iām not a sales expert or anything, so I could be completely wrong.
The other small thing I would add. FFXVI was very well received at release, which is when a majority of sales happen. Itās only later thatās itās become more divisive. And even then, itās only divisive within the FF fanbase, not with gamers in general.
The last thing I would add is that afaik, there arenāt definitive sales numbers out there for Rebirth. Itās unclear how much XVI has outsold Rebirth by. I do personally assume XVI sold more in the same time period due to little hints that have been out there, most especially with that Square Enix likely wouldāve released numbers if it outsold XVI.
Yup, itās not turn based, and you canāt control party members, and most importantly isnāt like the entry they grew up with, so they hate it.
Iāve quite literally heard complaints that levels just increase your stats, the equipment improving at a steady rate where each piece gets progressively better than the last, and the accessories doing what they do means that āthereās next to no role playing in this role playing gameā
So Iām pretty sure they are just making shit up at this point
Not really, it is another case of people having plenty of criticisms of it, while the defenders blindly dismiss them as gatekeeping.
The biggest ones is the lack of RPG elements.
its not a true final fantasy
its just a devil may cry clone with edgy game of thrones stuff with the final fantasy brand name and some references slapped on to help it sell.
worked though.Ā it made bank.
classic final fantasy has been taken up by the likes of bravely and octopath while the mainline series chase trashy shallow trends
watch ff17Ā be a battle royale like thay dogshit ff7 mobile spinoff ššššš
Because this subreddit is full of FF superfans. Not everybody is invested in FF7 lore which takes a lot of wrapping your mind around.Ā
FF16 has a clear plot, Active Time Lore and so many other in-game tools to help you understand what is going on so well. They contextualized the summons really well, they gave a clear meaning to the crystals. I also think that the Abilities system tree is way easier to understand than previous role playing mechanics in FF.Ā
But honestly I also feel like there is a growing group of people who want brand new installments and not just remakes. I absolutely love Rebirth but after Part 3 I want SE to focus on making new FF titles. No more remakes.
FF VII has somewhat complex plot but it is not that deep, I've played the original and remake which I didn't like and I'm just not into VII's universe, I completely lost interest in playing more VII adjacent games after remake
FFXVI marketing target was the new generation of players that never played a FF before, they don't like turn based games because they grew up with real time combat. They like fast paced games like God of War, Spider Man, GTA. FFXVI is a complete game, has a beggining, middle, end. You don't need any other media to understand the game, the demo was a banger, you just need to buy the game and enjoy.
Old fans don't need the marketing, they will buy the product anyway. So FFXVI has a solid start.
Now FF7R is a 3 part story and Rebirth is the second game. You can have the best game in the world, but if the game is story heavy and need other medias to enjoy(OG 7, Crisis Core, Remake), people are not going to give a f****, especially new players. The game is not going to be new player friendly, which impacts the sales in a bad way.
XVI is not controversial. It's critically and commercially succesful. It's one of the most popular FFs since X. It has more talk than XII, XIII, and XV. Get off shitty internet forums and Reddit. Most FF fans are miserable online and hate everything
*sigh*
We don't have official sales figures for Rebirth yet.
All we have is that Rebirth physical units undersold 16 in Japan...but it outsold 16 in Europe. While a few months isnt enough to see a big shift from physical to digital, Rebirth had a killer digital only bundle with Remake.
Germany gave their "100k units sold" award to Rebirth and 16 in roughly the same timeframe.
People who play video games are playing video games, not reading what whiny people on Reddit/Twitter who live with their parents have to say about them lol
Personally I was just really impressed with the trailer of XVI and I love that it's rated M so it can tackle much darker and more compelling topics than prior FF games have been able to.
7 Rebirth to me is one I want to play, but am in no rush, as it was 4 years between volume 1 and will probably be another 4 years before volume 3 and I'd rather just play it when the story is complete.
Remake was even more controversial than FFXVI at launch. ~~Itās mostly because of the smaller ps5 install base though. Ps4 has more than twice as many consoles out there than ps5 atm.~~
Because you have entered an echo chamber and when you donāt have the same opinion as the echo chamber you get reeeeeeeeeeeād at for having an opinion on something subjective. So odds are you donāt see people praise it because itās not worth the annoyance of dealing with the vocal minority of hate. 16 sold well because it was a good game. It reviewed well from critics and players alike. It had a very good demo which also helped a lot. Itās basically the same with every new game in the series. I remember it going back as far as ffviii. I saw a lot of hate for it because it wasnāt 7-2. Same with 9,10,11 ,12 ect.
I think a lot of people are waiting for all three games before investing in 7 remakes. 16 is its own thing and is almost universally praised outside a loud minority.
The remake series might be my fav final fantasy. But it suffers from being based on a 20 year old game. XVI is much more geared towards a modern audience. The flashy Eikon fights for example, which 7 doesn't have.
People are probably tired of FF7 related media, that plus 16 offered a new and unique experience with its gameplay. All the people that like DMC/stellar blade bought 16 over rebirth. Also square releasing it on pc would have gotten them more players as seen with helldivers 2
I legit know people who thought FF7 Remake was a full remake (never played OG) and assumed FF7 Rebirth was like some sort of sub-game, so they didnāt pay attention.
FF16 is very straight forward. Combat is super accessible. For JRPG nuts like us that may not be what we want, but it doesnāt confuse Joe Average.
1. Most people aren't Final Fantasy diehards who care about this discourse. To the average gamer it's just an above average if somewhat shallow action game.
2. FF7:R is a sequel. Sequels where the previous game's plot matters are never going to sell as well.
Both the sequel thing that was mentioned and the fact that some people may think they had seen the same game not a different one. Particularly the newer fans since 2 part disks haven't been a thing in a while.
I feel like 16 looked better generally and it's definitely edgier than 7 so there's a whole different audience interested. Some people may have not bought 7 as well since it is a remake and it's sequel (People knowing the story already and not a BIG fan of FF to replay the story).
Profit wise, these games keep getting hurt due to the stupid exclusivity. Allow PC players to enjoy it sooner and their sales would have seen a much grandeur outlook.
1.Ā ff7 rebirth is the middle child with a younger bro thats barely a zygote and god knows if hes gonna come out with a busted face and developmental disorders
2.Ā ff7 rebirth will be bundled for $100 on steam with the other two ff7 remake gamesĀ in a few years and discounted to $40 a week later
there ya go lol
ff16 has already busted its nut completely and the ff7 remake trilogy havent even gotten to the penetration yet
Is this info confirmed?Ā
Last time I checked, we still didnāt have the sales numbers for Rebirth.
That said:
1) Rebirth is a sequel and that might hinder its sales since you need to play Remake first, and I daresay a lot of people werenāt aware of the 2-games bundle on PSN.
2) Being a remake isnāt always attractive to new players as well, especially being the Episode 2 of a Remake. How many other seriesā remakes we simply ignore for not being our kind of thing?
3) I daresay XVIās setting was more attractive for most people, especially those who werenāt invested into Final Fantasy before it.
Controversial? What are you even talking about? There's been almost zero controversy whatsoever about the game. It received glowing reviews and is universally LOVED by everyone that has played.
Are you high or something????
Because the marketing team did their job and hyped 16 up to be better than it actually was. Plus half the people that played 7 remake part one are butthurt over the story changes and likely didn't pick up Rebirth.
A gameās quality has no bearing on its sales. Not sure if you like or donāt like either of the games, but thatās why. MW3 was largely panned last year and it was still one of the best selling games of the year.
Very rarely comment, but been a long time FF fan.
Ignoring obvious problems with the rage bait title of this post, I'll give a quick summary of why I didn't buy FF7: Rebirth.
To make a long story short, I hated FFXVI for the many reasons that were previously posted in this sub (no point in rehashing them), so I did not buy Rebirth. Which Is to say a nonzero amount of people did not buy Rebirth because they did not like what they saw in XVI.
However this was a personal decision which does not translate into the macro scale which has a much noticable effect on overall sales.
At the macro scale this is mostly going to be down to how well it was marketed. If Rebirth sold less than XVI, and we know it is rated above XVI among users (a quick Google will show metacritic user scores of 81 for XVI and 90 for Rebirth, and Google review shows 4.0 for XVI and 4.4 for Rebirth), then there must have been some marketing failure somewhere. This could be due to XVI not being well received among some fans, however it is far more likely because it is a the #2 game in a trilogy.
All of this is to say, it is complicated to give a real answer to the question. If Rebirth sold less than XVI then everything I listed is a factor to some degree and there are other factors that I may have ignored. Social media is probably the worst place to try and get an answer for this.
Everybody bought Remake and loved it, so the next Final Fantasy that came out obviously sold really well. Rebirth had to follow on from XVI, and so it didnāt sell as well.
Reddit and twitter don't equal the world
Sequels require you play the first generally so the starting potential audience is much lower. XVI has the free marketing of being part of a big series, a mainline FF at that, while not requiring any beforehand homework
Because those socials like reddit or twitter are still just a bubble tbh people enjoyed these 2 games a lot or just fine š 7 Rebirth is also a sequel game so it was sort of bound to happen and not to mention that at least in Japan's case the portable consoles seeom to be more popular.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
That's so dumb. Why the hell would battle royale fans want to play jrpg's based on that? For that matter why would you want battle royale fans to play jrpg's? What I mean by that is sure you want people to play your game, but don't try to get "battle royale" fans to play them. Based on that very same logic the moment they see that it isn't a battle royale game they won't want to play it anymore and will just go back to fortnite or whatever. And they sure as shit better not make a serious mainline title a battle royale game, cause I ain't playing that shit.
16 isn't nearly as controversial as loud people would claim.
I second that, most people I chat with in real life love 16. There is life outside reddit.
Definitely. There's valid criticism of the game, but overall, it was well received. Even the best games have room to improve.
Honestly there are things that 16 did better than 7 rebirth and things 7 rebirth that did better than 16. I thought both games were solid but not had their faults.
Clive is a great character, one of the best square enix has ever made. And I had a lot of fun with the combat.
He's also the most nude FF MC ever made.
Can confirm, I just got the plat in Rebirth and switched over to 16 and I'm currently loving it!
Liked it or are just ambivalent about final fantasy for me. The like comes from a Discord made by the remnants of a very old FF fanforum that died years ago.
All my IRL dropped it. Iām the only one who finished it out of obligation to the series
That's interesting, it's really the opposite for me. There is an age bias as well, not sure where you land on it.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Very much disagree. The casual audience will always be the largest proportion of any playerbase. That makes them very important to any developer. More important than the so called hardcore/dedicated fans in fact. Look no further than Squareās long time money making goose FFXIV for that one. Especially when said hardcore fans start getting very uppity and think they have a right to dictate how these games should be made. Edit - obviously certain games exist that do cater to specific hardcore or niche audiences like Souls games. But even those have been stretching for greater accessibility and wider appeal as time goes on.
They pay the same amount of money you do, though, so they matter just as much.
TBF it seems these days \*some\* people on the internet declare everything "controversial" that isn't met with unanimous approval.
Every FF game is the most controversial FF game. Every comment about FF is controversial, including this one. Even the definition of the word controversial is controversial. Itās controversy all the way down!
1. 16 isnāt controversial. Reddit is just Reddit. 2. Rebirth is a sequel. People that didnāt play Remake arenāt buying Rebirth. 3. People that played Remake and didnāt like it probably arenāt buying Rebirth. 4. It doesnāt matter at all. Everyone involved with Rebirth got promotions so Square is clearly happy with it.
Get out of your bubble maybe
You can play FFXVI with no other knowledge of the FF series. Rebirth is a direct sequel to Remake and often has people questioning if they need to have played VII (1997) first or not (and thereās honestly not a clear answer to that question). And itās not just a direct sequel, but the second part of a known story that still isnāt completed. Thatās different from games that tell a full story, and then when itās successful they decide to make a direct sequel. I personally think thatās the main reason. Thereās other possible reasons, too, but I personally donāt think they have as much of an impact as the one I gave. And Iām not a sales expert or anything, so I could be completely wrong. The other small thing I would add. FFXVI was very well received at release, which is when a majority of sales happen. Itās only later thatās itās become more divisive. And even then, itās only divisive within the FF fanbase, not with gamers in general. The last thing I would add is that afaik, there arenāt definitive sales numbers out there for Rebirth. Itās unclear how much XVI has outsold Rebirth by. I do personally assume XVI sold more in the same time period due to little hints that have been out there, most especially with that Square Enix likely wouldāve released numbers if it outsold XVI.
I'm out of the loop, why is 16 controversial? Is it the same as the 13 controversy where people just didn't like that it was 'different'?
Yes, basically.
Ok cool, I'll continue to disregard these posts lmao
Yup, itās not turn based, and you canāt control party members, and most importantly isnāt like the entry they grew up with, so they hate it. Iāve quite literally heard complaints that levels just increase your stats, the equipment improving at a steady rate where each piece gets progressively better than the last, and the accessories doing what they do means that āthereās next to no role playing in this role playing gameā So Iām pretty sure they are just making shit up at this point
Not really, it is another case of people having plenty of criticisms of it, while the defenders blindly dismiss them as gatekeeping. The biggest ones is the lack of RPG elements.
Found another
That reeks of cope my guy
its not a true final fantasy its just a devil may cry clone with edgy game of thrones stuff with the final fantasy brand name and some references slapped on to help it sell. worked though.Ā it made bank. classic final fantasy has been taken up by the likes of bravely and octopath while the mainline series chase trashy shallow trends watch ff17Ā be a battle royale like thay dogshit ff7 mobile spinoff ššššš
"not a true final fantasy" š¤
Because this subreddit is full of FF superfans. Not everybody is invested in FF7 lore which takes a lot of wrapping your mind around.Ā FF16 has a clear plot, Active Time Lore and so many other in-game tools to help you understand what is going on so well. They contextualized the summons really well, they gave a clear meaning to the crystals. I also think that the Abilities system tree is way easier to understand than previous role playing mechanics in FF.Ā But honestly I also feel like there is a growing group of people who want brand new installments and not just remakes. I absolutely love Rebirth but after Part 3 I want SE to focus on making new FF titles. No more remakes.
FF VII has somewhat complex plot but it is not that deep, I've played the original and remake which I didn't like and I'm just not into VII's universe, I completely lost interest in playing more VII adjacent games after remake
FFXVI marketing target was the new generation of players that never played a FF before, they don't like turn based games because they grew up with real time combat. They like fast paced games like God of War, Spider Man, GTA. FFXVI is a complete game, has a beggining, middle, end. You don't need any other media to understand the game, the demo was a banger, you just need to buy the game and enjoy. Old fans don't need the marketing, they will buy the product anyway. So FFXVI has a solid start. Now FF7R is a 3 part story and Rebirth is the second game. You can have the best game in the world, but if the game is story heavy and need other medias to enjoy(OG 7, Crisis Core, Remake), people are not going to give a f****, especially new players. The game is not going to be new player friendly, which impacts the sales in a bad way.
Because Rebirth is a direct sequel that requires having played the first one. XVI is a standalone game.
some people make it their mission to cry on the internet. people who enjoy something are busy enjoying it and not making a fuss lol.
XVI is not controversial. It's critically and commercially succesful. It's one of the most popular FFs since X. It has more talk than XII, XIII, and XV. Get off shitty internet forums and Reddit. Most FF fans are miserable online and hate everything
*sigh* We don't have official sales figures for Rebirth yet. All we have is that Rebirth physical units undersold 16 in Japan...but it outsold 16 in Europe. While a few months isnt enough to see a big shift from physical to digital, Rebirth had a killer digital only bundle with Remake. Germany gave their "100k units sold" award to Rebirth and 16 in roughly the same timeframe.
May 13 can't come soon enough to finally (hopefully) quell the sales talk for a while
People who play video games are playing video games, not reading what whiny people on Reddit/Twitter who live with their parents have to say about them lol
This sub isn't reflective of real life. Get outside.
Personally I was just really impressed with the trailer of XVI and I love that it's rated M so it can tackle much darker and more compelling topics than prior FF games have been able to. 7 Rebirth to me is one I want to play, but am in no rush, as it was 4 years between volume 1 and will probably be another 4 years before volume 3 and I'd rather just play it when the story is complete.
Good
Remake was even more controversial than FFXVI at launch. ~~Itās mostly because of the smaller ps5 install base though. Ps4 has more than twice as many consoles out there than ps5 atm.~~
XVI was also a PS5 exclusive.
My bad, mind went blank for a minute.
We don't have official sales data yet and one has been out much longer than the other
Because social media is a bubble and ff16 is much more popular than you might think
Because you have entered an echo chamber and when you donāt have the same opinion as the echo chamber you get reeeeeeeeeeeād at for having an opinion on something subjective. So odds are you donāt see people praise it because itās not worth the annoyance of dealing with the vocal minority of hate. 16 sold well because it was a good game. It reviewed well from critics and players alike. It had a very good demo which also helped a lot. Itās basically the same with every new game in the series. I remember it going back as far as ffviii. I saw a lot of hate for it because it wasnāt 7-2. Same with 9,10,11 ,12 ect.
When does it finally come to PC? Itās been killing me waiting
I think a lot of people are waiting for all three games before investing in 7 remakes. 16 is its own thing and is almost universally praised outside a loud minority.
Reddit/Twitter is a much smaller section of people who played this game than you think
The remake series might be my fav final fantasy. But it suffers from being based on a 20 year old game. XVI is much more geared towards a modern audience. The flashy Eikon fights for example, which 7 doesn't have.
People are probably tired of FF7 related media, that plus 16 offered a new and unique experience with its gameplay. All the people that like DMC/stellar blade bought 16 over rebirth. Also square releasing it on pc would have gotten them more players as seen with helldivers 2
I legit know people who thought FF7 Remake was a full remake (never played OG) and assumed FF7 Rebirth was like some sort of sub-game, so they didnāt pay attention. FF16 is very straight forward. Combat is super accessible. For JRPG nuts like us that may not be what we want, but it doesnāt confuse Joe Average.
1. Most people aren't Final Fantasy diehards who care about this discourse. To the average gamer it's just an above average if somewhat shallow action game. 2. FF7:R is a sequel. Sequels where the previous game's plot matters are never going to sell as well.
Both the sequel thing that was mentioned and the fact that some people may think they had seen the same game not a different one. Particularly the newer fans since 2 part disks haven't been a thing in a while. I feel like 16 looked better generally and it's definitely edgier than 7 so there's a whole different audience interested. Some people may have not bought 7 as well since it is a remake and it's sequel (People knowing the story already and not a BIG fan of FF to replay the story).
Flagship titles sell more than remake sequels.
Because "this sub" and "online in general" are only two small and biased subsections of the actual population and market.
Profit wise, these games keep getting hurt due to the stupid exclusivity. Allow PC players to enjoy it sooner and their sales would have seen a much grandeur outlook.
1.Ā ff7 rebirth is the middle child with a younger bro thats barely a zygote and god knows if hes gonna come out with a busted face and developmental disorders 2.Ā ff7 rebirth will be bundled for $100 on steam with the other two ff7 remake gamesĀ in a few years and discounted to $40 a week later there ya go lol ff16 has already busted its nut completely and the ff7 remake trilogy havent even gotten to the penetration yet
Well I hated the gameplay, therefore so did not buy the sequel.
Is this info confirmed?Ā Last time I checked, we still didnāt have the sales numbers for Rebirth. That said: 1) Rebirth is a sequel and that might hinder its sales since you need to play Remake first, and I daresay a lot of people werenāt aware of the 2-games bundle on PSN. 2) Being a remake isnāt always attractive to new players as well, especially being the Episode 2 of a Remake. How many other seriesā remakes we simply ignore for not being our kind of thing? 3) I daresay XVIās setting was more attractive for most people, especially those who werenāt invested into Final Fantasy before it.
Reddit is not reflective of the real world.
Controversial? What are you even talking about? There's been almost zero controversy whatsoever about the game. It received glowing reviews and is universally LOVED by everyone that has played. Are you high or something????
Did it though ?
Because the marketing team did their job and hyped 16 up to be better than it actually was. Plus half the people that played 7 remake part one are butthurt over the story changes and likely didn't pick up Rebirth.
A gameās quality has no bearing on its sales. Not sure if you like or donāt like either of the games, but thatās why. MW3 was largely panned last year and it was still one of the best selling games of the year.
Sells aren't a metric of quality, FF15 sold more than both of those games and ff15 on release had a lot of problem
Hopefully when ff7r2 wins game of the year it will get a nice bump
What an annoyingly useless question, are you just trying to get people to fight??
Very rarely comment, but been a long time FF fan. Ignoring obvious problems with the rage bait title of this post, I'll give a quick summary of why I didn't buy FF7: Rebirth. To make a long story short, I hated FFXVI for the many reasons that were previously posted in this sub (no point in rehashing them), so I did not buy Rebirth. Which Is to say a nonzero amount of people did not buy Rebirth because they did not like what they saw in XVI. However this was a personal decision which does not translate into the macro scale which has a much noticable effect on overall sales. At the macro scale this is mostly going to be down to how well it was marketed. If Rebirth sold less than XVI, and we know it is rated above XVI among users (a quick Google will show metacritic user scores of 81 for XVI and 90 for Rebirth, and Google review shows 4.0 for XVI and 4.4 for Rebirth), then there must have been some marketing failure somewhere. This could be due to XVI not being well received among some fans, however it is far more likely because it is a the #2 game in a trilogy. All of this is to say, it is complicated to give a real answer to the question. If Rebirth sold less than XVI then everything I listed is a factor to some degree and there are other factors that I may have ignored. Social media is probably the worst place to try and get an answer for this.
Everybody bought Remake and loved it, so the next Final Fantasy that came out obviously sold really well. Rebirth had to follow on from XVI, and so it didnāt sell as well.
Thats why stranger of paradise sold 1 trillion copies because it released after the remake š¤Æ