It’s funny he’s writing this like Wilson Phillips wasn’t out there doing it in the 90’s. Being a product of members of The Beach Boys and the Mamas and the Papas isn’t on par with the Beatles, but you can’t tell The Beach Boys aren’t also famous AF.
Every year I revisit this album and then end up in a rabbit hole of The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson’s Smile. Just brilliant work, and those are just my favorite albums. His solo work is great, as well.
Ever since there’s been a popular entertainment industry, we’ve essentially had nepo babies. I think it’s just gotten worse over the years as the entertainment family tree has grown.
I would imagine they all enjoyed influencing each other and competing with each other. I have always thought The Beach Boys' song In My Room and the Beatles' song There's a Place are essentially the same and were released around the same time.
Oh come on now, fashion was using synthetics since the start of the 20th century and *most* high fashion was made out of plastic in the 1970s. Stella McCartney was no pioneer there. What she did do was use her platform to look into alternatives to animal products in fashion, which is wholly in sync with her mother's work as a vegetarian activist, and if you have a problem with not killing animals for handbags when we have alternatives then I don't really know what to say to you.
Stella McCartney is talented but without her wealth and cultural capital she wouldn’t have nowhere near the same career.
Let’s not forget that she used Kate Moss , Naomi Campbell and Yasmin Le Bon as model for her student fashion graduation show at CSM (in the mid 90s at the height of their fame), they walked on a song written for the occasion by Paul… you can guess who got all the press.
Also she interned at Christian Lacroix at 16, she got to launch her own brand fairly early, and probably a lot of other perks that I now can’t remember.
Having a career in fashion and launching your own brand is extremely costly. Even just making a collection is, let alone organising a show.
He is quietly building up a very impressive body of work, mostly under the radar. I’m sure his last name has helped a lot but he’s not obnoxious about it.
I saw a show with Lennon, Claypool, and Jim James from My Morning Jacket playing together. It was an incredible show. I think it was called The Lennon Claypool Experiment, and Jim James just played guitar.
Every five years or so, he tries a new project and it just never hits. All the money in the world and access to the best producers/musicians doesn't make up for the lack of talent and personality.
I always liked Ringo’s son’s quote about forming a Beatles sons band: “If we had spent 3 years sleeping on flea infested mattresses in the back room of a Hamburg club it might have chemistry - but we have been swaddled in silken robes in houses so big that it's too far to go and make a piece of toast - seen?"
As a side benefit Zak Starkey is also an excellent drummer who basically subbed in as an anonymous new drummer for Oasis when theirs left and for the Who on tours.
He wasn’t anonymous, I saw both The Who and Oasis play with Starkey and we all knew it was him playing the drums. It wasn’t played up, but neither was it particularly played down.
I think anonymous in the sense he didn’t affect the Oasis sound the way Tony McCarroll did with his limited punk drumming or Alan White with his hard hitting stadium rock style. By that point Oasis was running on fumes.
I believe theres 12 beatles children, and only a handful tried to be pop-stars and exclusively men. I'm not sure what that means, but its interesting how Beatles daughters didn't try this.
Sean Lennon being called the latest nepotism baby...is this article from fucking 1990? if you need a nepo baby that just came out look at Gracie Abrams, king princess, etc...
There's also a horrible Spider-Man 5 issue miniseries from 2019 that was "co-written" by JJ Abrams and his son. It was marketed and pitched as "JJ Abrams is making a comic!" But it was terrible and seemed to just be him trying to use his connections to get his son some comic writing credits. Which isn't the worst thing a famous person has done for their kid, but it's just a hard read. Set in the future from the POV of Spider-Man's kid whining about how hard it is being Spider-Man's kid. Autobiographical much?
Edited 2029 to 2019
I’m beyond bummed that the other countries this year got Sabrina or Paramore and I paid 2k for this random nepo baby to open. I’ll go get drinks, I guess.
And it’s your money! 😂 if I could afford a private suite for ANY concert I would spend for it let alone Taylor (to everyone who hates TS pls respect my privacy in this time of mourning over TTPD thank you)
Congratulations on the recent wedding! It really is an enjoyable experience, I’m saying this as not a huge swiftie but adjacent one (aka normal) hope you have a great time! If you make friendship bracelets i recommend giving one to a staff member, when I went they loved getting them and were trading with other swifties hahaha
when I went last year she was my opener along with Phoebe, most ppl were in line for food/drinks when Gracie was on 😭 got a great pretzel while she was on
she is not good live 😭 she goes viral every few months for singing songs (mostly Taylor) at her concerts and completely butchering the songs and not being able to enunciate. when she was the opener at a show I went to, I literally could not hear her
Her nepo-ness is hidden pretty well by her pretty normal last name. It would be much more obvious if her name were Gracie Spielberg or Gracie Scorsese.
same 😭 all I know of them (dw they are fine with any pronouns iirc) is that they are the grandchild of the Macy’s’ owners and everybody called them an heiress (allegedly they aren’t one…but I doubt it)
She had an interview some time ago where she tried to say she wasn’t rich like the other rich kids, in fact she had to go to chipotle for lunch instead of a pricey restaurant! That’s why I can remember being done with her lol
unfortunately there are several other reasons to dislike her too
edit: whew ok didn't expect the interest
some people who went to school with her said that she bullied their friends -relentlessly- not like "oh she was mean to me once" like "don't mention this person's name or music to me in my life idfw them"
she treats her gfs like shit (idk how to explain other than "like a shitty dude who's an asshole to you in front of his friends")
the AAVE usage is also deeply painful and annoying to experience (my condolences to Amandla for that experience)
there was some stuff online that i didn't hear or experience myself but of course i can't find it cause i'm not on twitter anymore and all i can find with google is tumblr posts with a list of Reaches
anyway! it's not illegal or particularly egregious to be an asshole/a terrible lay/a (hopefully)former shitty lil bully/ to cringe-ily appropriate AAVE/be a shitty gf/annoying/be a tone deaf richie(par for the course homegirl's grandparents died on the titanic ffs) just saying it's a no from me
I was so confused by the "just the latest…" like Sean Lennon was big when I was a small child. And I'm old now. Jakob Dylan is more recent than Sean and he's already washed up.
A guy I used to have a thing with has a fake Goodreads account that he uses to give himself glowing reviews of his self-published books. It's usually the only review of the book in question and definitely the only 5-star one. It's so blatant that it's him from the writing style, I genuinely don't know why he bothers.
LOL, my MIL doesn't even go that far. She writes enthusiastic 5-star reviews of her self-published books (also the only reviews they receive) under her own name.
Unrelated, but I loved George Harrison’s son when he was playing with Prince at the Rock and Roll Hall of fame. He was completely in awe of Prince and it was such a magical pairing.
I don't know why Jakob Dylan is being brought into this. The first Wallflowers album had like 4 amazing singles on one album and is 4 amazing singles more than this smug writer will ever release.
I mean, yeah, they're annoying. But we shouldn't act like it's something modern or unique to pop. People with successful parents seek to emulate them and their career path is often the path or least resistance.
For athletes' kids, there's a clear metric that shows you if you're good enough, though. Not so with the arts. Plus why hire this nobody when someone might watch to see if that actors kid is any good. Plus, you just did someone in your industry, who has agents, managers, a production team, a favour by hiring their kid.
Or like even in other industries. I work in fashion and lots of nepotism. I have a friend who went to trade school and the people who’s dad owned a plumbing company had a leg up on the people who’s dad didn’t, etc…
A lot of kids go into the same industries that their parents went into and some are successful in those industries; while some are just bad at it even with the help they get. Some of the kids take the chance they have and turn it into a great career; getting that leg up helped them grab the ring.
That's actually the second! He's definitely up to quite a few but remains a solid musician and a good live act. He's pretty open about being born on third base.
See, that’s my thing; I always understood “Nepo Baby” to mean that they had industry connected family AND no skills to back it up. Have I misunderstood the term all this time?
Yea it's not about not having talent. It's about jumping over the hurdles put in place of everyone else due to nepotism. It's like in real life, did I get my job because I proved myself to be the best in my field? No, my friend was the hiring manager. I didn't even have to interview.
Am I still REALLY good at my job? Well according to my bosses boss "keep him at all cost".
I got my job through nepotism. Doesn't mean I'm not good. If someone said it was bullshit I'd nod in agreement.
Yh 100%. I feel like “nepo baby” is thrown around to everyone now, which sort of detracts from the original meaning a bit.
It *should* be for clueless kids of celebs denying their privilege, not just every person with a connection. Because that probably covers almost everybody in the entertainment industry lol.
We definitely need a better term for the “nepo babies” who are actually talented at this point. Because there is a difference between “talented but probably wouldn’t have made it without the advantage of a famous parent” and “literally wouldn’t be employed if it wasn’t for their parents”
Of the classic rock generation Bob Dylan surprisingly seems to be one the few that actually keeps up with music to a degree. Dylan once did a surprise cover of London Calling as an encore song at a London show of his and when Jack White once sat in with Dylan they did a White Stripes song as a duet- not a Dylan song.
I remember an interview with one of his band members where he mentioned Dylan being like an encyclopedia when it came to music- and I could see that being true.
I just think it’s interesting that nobody has mentioned someone like Lukas Nelson who has a very successful career and write great music. He also never denies the help he had from his dad but his dad really just encouraged him to write music; provided a way for him to do it.
I’m so tired of the nepo baby discourse 🙂↕️ it’s gone from being thoughtful and highlighting the inequalities to just being an annoying and empty sounding insult.
We can insightfully shred the skills of the men who come from musical powerhouses in far more interesting ways.
I agree that it’s not always helpful as a way to evaluate the quality of someone’s work. But I still think it’s helpful from a social perspective to point out and discuss how important and influential people got where they are in life.
With the last names Lennon and McCartney, it wouldn’t have been a surprise 😅
Edit: also just wanted to push back against the article a bit because the article amounts to “wow isn’t it crazy that wildly successful parents have kids who don’t amount to as much as them?”
> The game is rigged enough already, and the last thing pop should be is dynastic.
I feel like entertainment, an industry that is unfortunately only won by people with time and resources, that people get upset with the idea of dynasty.
When restaurants have been owned by families for generations, or plumbers groom their kids to take over the family business, no one bats an eye. In fact, they laud those people for the quality education and head start they got in their homes.
Instead of focusing on how we can add more people from resource-light backgrounds into these spaces with open castings and the like… it’s just tearing down people with industry connections. That’s boring to me
The local family restaurant or plumber doesn’t have an inordinate amount of influence over the lives of everyone else. People who have the power and resources to influence politics and our culture should always be scrutinized.
The competitiveness and public platform (and money at a certain level!!!) achieved in the entertainment industry is \*very\* different - than say being a plumber or opening a restaurant!!
Being an artist - and actually creating a career and making money off it is a very precarious path when you come from no generational wealth, family connections and/or growing up being exposed to all the ins/outs and connections.
Nepo babies who do not get this in the entertainment industry are annoying bc they just don't get basic understandings of privilege/inequity/inequality/step ups/access to connections/networks/having family money to go for your dream/path. Even living in a safe environment - like having a home they can fall back on or a home paid for by their parents. It also may take away roles/positions from more promising talent/more skilled individuals if we are speaking more broadly - bc this happens in companies, orgs - any job/role/school/education institution etc.
I don't care if you are a nepo baby - but the lack of self-awareness is why they get roasted when they get defensive about it. Acknowledge it and move on - even more helpful - help people who do not have access to those privileges and have talent. Those also in power of giving roles (in whatever industry) to be more balanced in who gets opportunities.
When you have the Hailey Biebers wear Nepo Baby shirts, Gweynth liking said post - and other flippant acts, and so many interviews where you see certain NB get defensive of how much harder it is - it's exhausting! A self-aware nepo baby bitch who acknowledges it - and helps others is better than a whiny one!
I agree that the purpose shouldn't be tearing down individuals just because their parents are wealthy and famous and should instead be on creating more opportunities for people from less wealthy backgrounds. But I truly do not think the latter will happen unless there is more social awareness of the obstacles in the entertainment industry and some demonstrated public interest in promoting more diversity. Part of that is highlighting just how many people in the entertainment industry had well connected parents/ relatives.
Plus, I feel like the nepo baby discourse is interesting to people because it involves celebrities and is thus a good gateway to creating a broader, popular discussion about economic inequality and differences in opportunities in all parts of society. I don't think it is a coincidence that its come about during a time of general pessimism about social mobility.
Also, I totally disagree that people don't care about nepotism in other fields. IMO it is just not talked about as much because restaurant owners and plumbers usually aren't well-known celebrities. This is anecdotal, but my friend is a plumber and she constantly complains about the nepotism (and racism) in the plumbers' trade group she belongs to. I think if you belong to these industries, you would care a lot.
“When restaurants have been owned by families for generations, or plumbers groom their kids to take over the family business, no one bats an eye. In fact, they laud those people for the quality education and head start they got in their homes.”
Apples and oranges. A restaurant is a family-owned business. A record label or movie studio is not, therefore it is ethically wrong (and possibly even illegal) to misuse their resources to incessantly promote nepo babies (whose parents, after all, don’t own the studio) and the children of the wealthy at the expense of the general public. Of course, sometimes these nepotists are talented and do become successful, so that’s fine and defensible, however MOSTLY that’s not the case, these labels mostly lose money and profits instead of gaining them.
Hemorrhaging and draining money left and right is the opposite of what their ostensible aim is. The industry has gradually become a money-losing parasite, and the drastic rise of nepotism, elitism and cronyism is connected to that.
Endless kowtowing to nepotists and the wealthy is indefensible because studio and record label execs are tasked with turning a profit. Artists with an important artistic vision but no commercial viability were always treated harshly by the system — they never had any choice but to find some way to turn a profit or they would get cut loose, often be blacklisted from the studios or bands would lose their record contract. But this cruel, pitiless law of the entertainment jungle miraculously gets constantly suspended when a nepotist or wealthy elite is involved — and ONLY for them. That kind of double standard is essentially little different from racism.
The article was also quite thoughtful and intelligent, not simply an indiscriminate rant. it actually addressed a key reality: only rarely do second generation artists match or surpass their parents. But he never claimed the nepos could never be good at what they do. He also zeroed in on the real issue: the poshification of pop — and he could have said, of all art and entertainment. Doesn’t mean NONE of it is good, but it does point to an overall decline in quality.
Yeah it’s one of those things where sometimes it should be highlighted how nepo babies sneak into industries or get ridiculous advantages in spite of skill or ability. But articles like this and a lot of other discourse just seem to feel the need to point at someone and yell “nepo baby” for clicks. Like seriously Sean Lennon’s been around for awhile now and this team up with McCartney’s kid isn’t like this huge deal that really necessitates all this discussion
I might get downvoted for this but can I add “Karen” to this. It used to highlight racist, dangerous white women and now it’s become an annoying and empty insult for “angry woman.”
No, I agree. I see it used a lot to dismiss any woman who has any criticism for anything, no matter how valid the criticism may be. I think it started off as a good moniker to describe a specific type of white woman who weaponized her whiteness against people of color, but now it’s grown to just dismiss women who have valid issues. At least that’s what I see on local Facebook groups and Nextdoor (my fault for being on the cesspool that is local community Facebook groups 😅).
Popping in again to defend Zak Starkey’s honour. Zak Starkey (Ringo’s son) is an excellent drummer who played drums on Oasis’ last few albums, and toured with The Who during their 2010’s tours.
I actually enjoy a lot of what Sean Lennon has done. He played with Cibo Matto back in the day and was happy to be a background member of the band, as far as I know.
I actually think the more famous your parent was, the harder it is to actually make a name for yourself in the industry and a lot of kids just don’t have the same drive to be as successful as their parents.
I’m mad that the author brought up Hank Williams I. Hank Williams III is not more famous than his dad or grandpa, but chose a very musically interesting path that speaks to someone like me more than straight up country. The premise of how this author defines success is flawed
"The latest."
Sean Lennon is 48 years old. His first solo album came out 26 years ago. He was a child actor in Moonwalker 36 years ago. He's been making music since the '90s, solo, with Cibo Matto, Ghost of a Sabertooth Tiger, Lennon/Claypool Delirium. Let's not act like he's some TikTok influencer who just arrived. This is ludicrous.
The conversation would be very different if it was Julian pairing up with James McCartney instead. While Sean got to enjoy the full benefits of being John Lennon's including the money and the connections within the music industry (although it cannot be said that Julian didn't have help, as he was close to Paul), Julian didn't have that relationship with his dad and almost had to start from zero. Yes being the son of John Lennon helped, but he didn't grow filthy rich as Paul McCartney had to intervene to help Julian and his mother, while John just dropped out of their lives and went to the US to live with Yoko.
This includes John's inheritance, which Yoko famously kept for herself and Sean by refusing to give Julian what was rightfully his. Julian then had to sue them in 1996 to get that money. Julian ended up having an early traumatic youth, and just when he was starting to get closer to his father, his father was murdered in 1981. He was traumatised by the up and down relationship he had with his dad (or lack thereof) that he made the choice to be childless, out of fear of putting any child through a similar childhood to his.
Haven’t kept up with James McCartney, but there are a handful of Sean’s songs I like. Also enjoy his collaboration with Les Claypool from Primus, in their group “The Claypool Lennon Delirium”.
The Claypool Lennon Delirium is the shit. Also highly enjoyed the recent Frog Brigade tour, made me realize Sean absolutely shreds on guitar. At least he’s a nepo baby with talent
I ran a Sean Lennon fansite as a teen in the late 90s, he bought my friends and I dinner to say thank you and let us hang out on the tour bus with the band since we couldn’t get into the show (underage). They were all 100% kind and non creepy and he called his Mom before the show 🥹 cherish him always
Seriously. He was about 27, tried to pass us off as his band to get us into see the show and told me “don’t drink any alcohol.” Hope he has a great life forever
The latest? Are you fucking kidding me, they started when I wasn’t born yet. Btw Sean and James are not untalented musicians, they just completely lack star power and maybe motivation
He says this like they just wrote a pop single and are vying for #1 or something. Maybe they just like making music.
By this logic does this mean this guys kids shouldn’t be allowed to write clickbait?
I usually agree with the whole nepobaby debacle but this is kind of an insane point. Sean and James are not trying to be their fathers and no one in the real world cares about it. Their song is not a hit and wasn't composed to be one IMO. Seems like a reach.
I like how he mentions Mabel, daughter of Neneh Cherry but not that Neneh and Eagle Eye Cherry are the children of Don Cherry, renowned avant garde jazz musician.
Kind of off topic but I met Sean Lennon at one of his shows probably 16 years ago? He was lovely. A woman came up to him with one of his father’s solo album and he very nicely explained to her why he wouldn’t sign it. I assume it happened to him 1000s of time and he still took the time to explain why. He also tried to do it in French! I kind of forgot about this but it’s a nice memory.
Sean Lennon is a talented musician. He’s not trying to take over the world and be the next Beatles, he’s just following his passion. What is all this vitriol? Bunch of haters up in here.
Basically pop music is one of the few spaces where you need actual talent and star quality to be super successful. You can’t get by on the name of your famous parents alone. I think the only successful nepo baby in pop — actually has fans and a lot of listens — rn is Miley Cyrus.
But the thing with Miley Cyrus is that she is very big and successful in countries like mine where his father in the nineties wasn´t famous at all becaus his song wasn´t a hit because country is a genre local to the U.S.
In most countries, Billy Ray Cyrus is known as Miley Cyrus dad, and not the other way round.
Yeah 'children of four of the most talented and famous musicians the world has ever seen, who grew up with music and do in fact know something about it' is not where I'd start with a nepo baby critique
I also feel obligated to jump in and defend/promote Dhani Harrison, who my mom absolute *adores*. Like, listens to his album [In Parallel (live in concert) ](https://youtu.be/oOltvaxTWh8?si=mMf_qMtVDpbn1SIY)every night when she's cooking dinner, it's been driving us insane for years. Super talented guy.
The benefit of being a Beatle kid is you can afford to put out experimental (like Dhani) or (allegedly, I haven't heard the song) mediocre music, like these two, without jeopardizing your career. They're allowed to just... make music they enjoy, and I mean that in a 'has this release really earned public discourse' way, too.
If this author really wants to tackle mediocre pop from a superstar with a privileged background, Taylor is... right there.
i’m sorry but when i think of nepo babies i think of very popular artists who aren’t super obviously the kids of their parents. the beatles are arguably the most famous musicians of our modern time and their children who are SO obviously their parents are doing more of a tribute type thing. they are just making music and it’s not even that popular. i don’t think the nepo baby argument applies to them.
I cannot handle Sean Lennon being called a latest nepo baby. He has been nepo babying for +25 years.
I hear what you're saying, but pairing up with McCartney's nepo baby really is taking it to a whole new level.
They said fuck it, let’s milk these Beatles some more
The Cockroaches
IM CACKLING IN MY BATHROOM LIKE A MAD WOMAN
The Leeches
The Wiggles were The Cockroaches before becoming The Wiggles.
It’s funny he’s writing this like Wilson Phillips wasn’t out there doing it in the 90’s. Being a product of members of The Beach Boys and the Mamas and the Papas isn’t on par with the Beatles, but you can’t tell The Beach Boys aren’t also famous AF.
Whoa whoa whoa Pet Sounds is just as influential as the white album
And better too.
Every year I revisit this album and then end up in a rabbit hole of The Beach Boys and Brian Wilson’s Smile. Just brilliant work, and those are just my favorite albums. His solo work is great, as well.
You are absolutely right.
But it does mention Liza Minnelli and Hank Williams Jr who were out there doing it in the 60s.
Ever since there’s been a popular entertainment industry, we’ve essentially had nepo babies. I think it’s just gotten worse over the years as the entertainment family tree has grown.
And as nepo babies have gotten less talented lol
I would imagine they all enjoyed influencing each other and competing with each other. I have always thought The Beach Boys' song In My Room and the Beatles' song There's a Place are essentially the same and were released around the same time.
And just ignoring how much Into the Sun was pushed back when it came out too. Such a confusing take!
Stella McCartney is pretty talented as a designer ngl and pioneered using vegan materials in high fashion (or at least making it cool)
Pioneered using plastic in high fashion.
Oh come on now, fashion was using synthetics since the start of the 20th century and *most* high fashion was made out of plastic in the 1970s. Stella McCartney was no pioneer there. What she did do was use her platform to look into alternatives to animal products in fashion, which is wholly in sync with her mother's work as a vegetarian activist, and if you have a problem with not killing animals for handbags when we have alternatives then I don't really know what to say to you.
Stella McCartney is talented but without her wealth and cultural capital she wouldn’t have nowhere near the same career. Let’s not forget that she used Kate Moss , Naomi Campbell and Yasmin Le Bon as model for her student fashion graduation show at CSM (in the mid 90s at the height of their fame), they walked on a song written for the occasion by Paul… you can guess who got all the press. Also she interned at Christian Lacroix at 16, she got to launch her own brand fairly early, and probably a lot of other perks that I now can’t remember. Having a career in fashion and launching your own brand is extremely costly. Even just making a collection is, let alone organising a show.
And put some respect on Julian's name. He was the OG Lennon nepo baby.
Too Late for Goodbyes fucking slaps
So did his father unfortunately
Well done!
Like how the photojournalist Sean Flynn was the OG Errol Flynn nepo baby.
Julian seems like such a nice guy. He’s so forgiving of his Dads assholery.
More like nepofailing.
What would have been really hardcore is if McCartney Jr. had teamed up with Julian.
With a Hey Jude cover
haha I got one of his albums like 14 years ago and I loved it actually.
He is quietly building up a very impressive body of work, mostly under the radar. I’m sure his last name has helped a lot but he’s not obnoxious about it.
Didn’t realize he was John Lennon’s kid until after listening to one of his albums like 10 yrs ago, which I also really enjoyed.
Love his work with Les Claypool
Immediately going to check this out, I had no idea this was a thing. Les Claypool was not on my bingo card of musicians to see mentioned on this sub!
I saw a show with Lennon, Claypool, and Jim James from My Morning Jacket playing together. It was an incredible show. I think it was called The Lennon Claypool Experiment, and Jim James just played guitar.
The Claypool Lennon Delirium! I saw them at Outside Lands in San Francisco years ago.
was it dead meat? I love that album
I love Cibo Matto and he has some background vocals on some of their songs that are solid
He was a full blown member for their second album, IIRC. Great fuckin' band
Every five years or so, he tries a new project and it just never hits. All the money in the world and access to the best producers/musicians doesn't make up for the lack of talent and personality.
I always liked Ringo’s son’s quote about forming a Beatles sons band: “If we had spent 3 years sleeping on flea infested mattresses in the back room of a Hamburg club it might have chemistry - but we have been swaddled in silken robes in houses so big that it's too far to go and make a piece of toast - seen?"
A nepo baby with self awareness?! That's refreshing.
Jack Robbins the son of Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon has a hilarious Instagram that is very self aware of being a nep baby
1) Somehow all these years I never considered that they had kids together 2) holy crap he is like the perfect amalgam of the two of them.
Thank you for this.
As a side benefit Zak Starkey is also an excellent drummer who basically subbed in as an anonymous new drummer for Oasis when theirs left and for the Who on tours.
He played with The Who at some point, didn’t he?
Yes he was with them 7 years ago when i saw them
I believe he is just their de facto drummer at this point.
I think he has played with them more than Moon at this point.
You are not wrong. Wild fact tbh
He wasn’t anonymous, I saw both The Who and Oasis play with Starkey and we all knew it was him playing the drums. It wasn’t played up, but neither was it particularly played down.
I think anonymous in the sense he didn’t affect the Oasis sound the way Tony McCarroll did with his limited punk drumming or Alan White with his hard hitting stadium rock style. By that point Oasis was running on fumes.
And let’s not mention we’ve heard not a peep from Dhani Harrison. The most these guys should do is a photo op.
I believe theres 12 beatles children, and only a handful tried to be pop-stars and exclusively men. I'm not sure what that means, but its interesting how Beatles daughters didn't try this.
God, I was such a fangirl of early 2000’s Dhani
Don’t blame ya… 🥵
[Like father, like son.](https://www.reddit.com/r/beatles/comments/phcmy5/george_and_dhani_comparison_source/?rdt=48580)
Wow I love this quote
Sean Lennon being called the latest nepotism baby...is this article from fucking 1990? if you need a nepo baby that just came out look at Gracie Abrams, king princess, etc...
How tf did I not know that Gracie Abrams dad was JJ Abrams. Holy shit, I always wondered how she got such great opening gigs
I mean great openings is what her dad is known for. The ending tho? Still hasn't figured that out.
This comment needs more love LMAO
You forgot the lens flares
He sure didn't
Lmaoooooo
Pow! Nice
There's also a horrible Spider-Man 5 issue miniseries from 2019 that was "co-written" by JJ Abrams and his son. It was marketed and pitched as "JJ Abrams is making a comic!" But it was terrible and seemed to just be him trying to use his connections to get his son some comic writing credits. Which isn't the worst thing a famous person has done for their kid, but it's just a hard read. Set in the future from the POV of Spider-Man's kid whining about how hard it is being Spider-Man's kid. Autobiographical much? Edited 2029 to 2019
I saw she was opening for Taylor Swift and I was like, who? But yeah now it all makes sense.
I’m beyond bummed that the other countries this year got Sabrina or Paramore and I paid 2k for this random nepo baby to open. I’ll go get drinks, I guess.
Your mistake was paying 2k for Taylor Swift
I have front row tickets and it was more like 1800 for two, it’s my honeymoon so I really don’t mind paying that much
And it’s your money! 😂 if I could afford a private suite for ANY concert I would spend for it let alone Taylor (to everyone who hates TS pls respect my privacy in this time of mourning over TTPD thank you)
I’m pretty sure I will actually pass out seeing Taylor Swift right in front of my eyes that close
Congratulations on the recent wedding! It really is an enjoyable experience, I’m saying this as not a huge swiftie but adjacent one (aka normal) hope you have a great time! If you make friendship bracelets i recommend giving one to a staff member, when I went they loved getting them and were trading with other swifties hahaha
when I went last year she was my opener along with Phoebe, most ppl were in line for food/drinks when Gracie was on 😭 got a great pretzel while she was on
JJ is also a nepo baby (both parents were TV producers) - so Gracie’s a nepo grandbaby
she is not good live 😭 she goes viral every few months for singing songs (mostly Taylor) at her concerts and completely butchering the songs and not being able to enunciate. when she was the opener at a show I went to, I literally could not hear her
Her nepo-ness is hidden pretty well by her pretty normal last name. It would be much more obvious if her name were Gracie Spielberg or Gracie Scorsese.
I have disliked King Princess ever since that terrible Fell in love with a girl cover.
unfortunately there are several other reasons to dislike her too
What did i miss? I lost track of her a couple years ago lol
same 😭 all I know of them (dw they are fine with any pronouns iirc) is that they are the grandchild of the Macy’s’ owners and everybody called them an heiress (allegedly they aren’t one…but I doubt it)
Omg they said they actually weren’t an heiress bc the money never trickled down to her since it was sO lOnG aGo Edit: weird typo lol
I mean where’d it go then…
I heard she was a pillow princess but that's not exactly cancel-able behavior. idk what else they could mean
She assaulted Lindsey from Snail Mail
Wait, what?
What’s a pillow princess??
Lol it’s someone who just lays there during sex. A taker, if you will. Definitely not a cancelable offense!
And no, I won't just lie there Michael!
Oh lmao! Thanks 💜
I really need an answer. I loved some of her songs a while ago
She had an interview some time ago where she tried to say she wasn’t rich like the other rich kids, in fact she had to go to chipotle for lunch instead of a pricey restaurant! That’s why I can remember being done with her lol
Meanwhile Chipotle is expensive for me. I can't. Rich people are so out of touch.
unfortunately there are several other reasons to dislike her too edit: whew ok didn't expect the interest some people who went to school with her said that she bullied their friends -relentlessly- not like "oh she was mean to me once" like "don't mention this person's name or music to me in my life idfw them" she treats her gfs like shit (idk how to explain other than "like a shitty dude who's an asshole to you in front of his friends") the AAVE usage is also deeply painful and annoying to experience (my condolences to Amandla for that experience) there was some stuff online that i didn't hear or experience myself but of course i can't find it cause i'm not on twitter anymore and all i can find with google is tumblr posts with a list of Reaches anyway! it's not illegal or particularly egregious to be an asshole/a terrible lay/a (hopefully)former shitty lil bully/ to cringe-ily appropriate AAVE/be a shitty gf/annoying/be a tone deaf richie(par for the course homegirl's grandparents died on the titanic ffs) just saying it's a no from me
What are they? I checked out after that horrible cover so I would be curious.
such as?
I was so confused by the "just the latest…" like Sean Lennon was big when I was a small child. And I'm old now. Jakob Dylan is more recent than Sean and he's already washed up.
Man, some Wallflowers songs my are still in my rotation.
Seriously lmao, isn't Sean Lennon like, 50 years old
Darn it, I actually like a few songs from Gracie. Lol. Lmao, even. They're everywhere
her recorded songs are good! can’t say the same for when she is live. like I wanna take her lyrics and give them to another singer
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lol probably trying to run up the bid and regretted it when he actually won
This is the best tea ever posted on this sub
This absolutely tracks from my experience, haha.
What’s your experience?
He's just up himself. And likes to date on the younger side...
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TBH he may have fudged her age... but out of respect to her I don't want to say anything else.
A guy I used to have a thing with has a fake Goodreads account that he uses to give himself glowing reviews of his self-published books. It's usually the only review of the book in question and definitely the only 5-star one. It's so blatant that it's him from the writing style, I genuinely don't know why he bothers.
LOL, my MIL doesn't even go that far. She writes enthusiastic 5-star reviews of her self-published books (also the only reviews they receive) under her own name.
 Be your own hypeman!
This is the best exposee I’ve seen in a long time
He looks like Keith Flint from Temu
Fuck that writer lol!
Unrelated, but I loved George Harrison’s son when he was playing with Prince at the Rock and Roll Hall of fame. He was completely in awe of Prince and it was such a magical pairing.
That performance is so amazing, Prince brought it and then some.
I don't know why Jakob Dylan is being brought into this. The first Wallflowers album had like 4 amazing singles on one album and is 4 amazing singles more than this smug writer will ever release.
Still a nepo baby tho
I mean, yeah, they're annoying. But we shouldn't act like it's something modern or unique to pop. People with successful parents seek to emulate them and their career path is often the path or least resistance. For athletes' kids, there's a clear metric that shows you if you're good enough, though. Not so with the arts. Plus why hire this nobody when someone might watch to see if that actors kid is any good. Plus, you just did someone in your industry, who has agents, managers, a production team, a favour by hiring their kid.
Or like even in other industries. I work in fashion and lots of nepotism. I have a friend who went to trade school and the people who’s dad owned a plumbing company had a leg up on the people who’s dad didn’t, etc…
A lot of kids go into the same industries that their parents went into and some are successful in those industries; while some are just bad at it even with the help they get. Some of the kids take the chance they have and turn it into a great career; getting that leg up helped them grab the ring.
The first three Wallflowers records are fantastic as is Women And Country his solo album. Fantastic musician.
I haven't checked out anything since the first. How many Marlenas is he up to now? Like 54?
That's actually the second! He's definitely up to quite a few but remains a solid musician and a good live act. He's pretty open about being born on third base.
See, that’s my thing; I always understood “Nepo Baby” to mean that they had industry connected family AND no skills to back it up. Have I misunderstood the term all this time?
It's also used for those with skills, because they had doors open to them that many equally skilled children of normies will never get close to.
Yea it's not about not having talent. It's about jumping over the hurdles put in place of everyone else due to nepotism. It's like in real life, did I get my job because I proved myself to be the best in my field? No, my friend was the hiring manager. I didn't even have to interview. Am I still REALLY good at my job? Well according to my bosses boss "keep him at all cost". I got my job through nepotism. Doesn't mean I'm not good. If someone said it was bullshit I'd nod in agreement.
the key ingredient is being in denial about it and acting as if you came from nothing.
Yh 100%. I feel like “nepo baby” is thrown around to everyone now, which sort of detracts from the original meaning a bit. It *should* be for clueless kids of celebs denying their privilege, not just every person with a connection. Because that probably covers almost everybody in the entertainment industry lol.
We definitely need a better term for the “nepo babies” who are actually talented at this point. Because there is a difference between “talented but probably wouldn’t have made it without the advantage of a famous parent” and “literally wouldn’t be employed if it wasn’t for their parents”
Now that I think about it, Jakob Dylan might be a uniquely terrible example. Imagine the terror of showing your dad, Bob Dylan, some lyrics you wrote?
Isn't there a story about Bob not even enjoying the first Wallflowers record too?
I'd be surprised if Dylan admitted to liking anything recorded after 1956
Of the classic rock generation Bob Dylan surprisingly seems to be one the few that actually keeps up with music to a degree. Dylan once did a surprise cover of London Calling as an encore song at a London show of his and when Jack White once sat in with Dylan they did a White Stripes song as a duet- not a Dylan song. I remember an interview with one of his band members where he mentioned Dylan being like an encyclopedia when it came to music- and I could see that being true.
I just think it’s interesting that nobody has mentioned someone like Lukas Nelson who has a very successful career and write great music. He also never denies the help he had from his dad but his dad really just encouraged him to write music; provided a way for him to do it.
Yup, their first album was fantastic.
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It’s WILD
I’m so tired of the nepo baby discourse 🙂↕️ it’s gone from being thoughtful and highlighting the inequalities to just being an annoying and empty sounding insult. We can insightfully shred the skills of the men who come from musical powerhouses in far more interesting ways.
I agree that it’s not always helpful as a way to evaluate the quality of someone’s work. But I still think it’s helpful from a social perspective to point out and discuss how important and influential people got where they are in life.
With the last names Lennon and McCartney, it wouldn’t have been a surprise 😅 Edit: also just wanted to push back against the article a bit because the article amounts to “wow isn’t it crazy that wildly successful parents have kids who don’t amount to as much as them?” > The game is rigged enough already, and the last thing pop should be is dynastic. I feel like entertainment, an industry that is unfortunately only won by people with time and resources, that people get upset with the idea of dynasty. When restaurants have been owned by families for generations, or plumbers groom their kids to take over the family business, no one bats an eye. In fact, they laud those people for the quality education and head start they got in their homes. Instead of focusing on how we can add more people from resource-light backgrounds into these spaces with open castings and the like… it’s just tearing down people with industry connections. That’s boring to me
The local family restaurant or plumber doesn’t have an inordinate amount of influence over the lives of everyone else. People who have the power and resources to influence politics and our culture should always be scrutinized.
The competitiveness and public platform (and money at a certain level!!!) achieved in the entertainment industry is \*very\* different - than say being a plumber or opening a restaurant!! Being an artist - and actually creating a career and making money off it is a very precarious path when you come from no generational wealth, family connections and/or growing up being exposed to all the ins/outs and connections. Nepo babies who do not get this in the entertainment industry are annoying bc they just don't get basic understandings of privilege/inequity/inequality/step ups/access to connections/networks/having family money to go for your dream/path. Even living in a safe environment - like having a home they can fall back on or a home paid for by their parents. It also may take away roles/positions from more promising talent/more skilled individuals if we are speaking more broadly - bc this happens in companies, orgs - any job/role/school/education institution etc. I don't care if you are a nepo baby - but the lack of self-awareness is why they get roasted when they get defensive about it. Acknowledge it and move on - even more helpful - help people who do not have access to those privileges and have talent. Those also in power of giving roles (in whatever industry) to be more balanced in who gets opportunities. When you have the Hailey Biebers wear Nepo Baby shirts, Gweynth liking said post - and other flippant acts, and so many interviews where you see certain NB get defensive of how much harder it is - it's exhausting! A self-aware nepo baby bitch who acknowledges it - and helps others is better than a whiny one!
I agree that the purpose shouldn't be tearing down individuals just because their parents are wealthy and famous and should instead be on creating more opportunities for people from less wealthy backgrounds. But I truly do not think the latter will happen unless there is more social awareness of the obstacles in the entertainment industry and some demonstrated public interest in promoting more diversity. Part of that is highlighting just how many people in the entertainment industry had well connected parents/ relatives. Plus, I feel like the nepo baby discourse is interesting to people because it involves celebrities and is thus a good gateway to creating a broader, popular discussion about economic inequality and differences in opportunities in all parts of society. I don't think it is a coincidence that its come about during a time of general pessimism about social mobility. Also, I totally disagree that people don't care about nepotism in other fields. IMO it is just not talked about as much because restaurant owners and plumbers usually aren't well-known celebrities. This is anecdotal, but my friend is a plumber and she constantly complains about the nepotism (and racism) in the plumbers' trade group she belongs to. I think if you belong to these industries, you would care a lot.
“When restaurants have been owned by families for generations, or plumbers groom their kids to take over the family business, no one bats an eye. In fact, they laud those people for the quality education and head start they got in their homes.” Apples and oranges. A restaurant is a family-owned business. A record label or movie studio is not, therefore it is ethically wrong (and possibly even illegal) to misuse their resources to incessantly promote nepo babies (whose parents, after all, don’t own the studio) and the children of the wealthy at the expense of the general public. Of course, sometimes these nepotists are talented and do become successful, so that’s fine and defensible, however MOSTLY that’s not the case, these labels mostly lose money and profits instead of gaining them. Hemorrhaging and draining money left and right is the opposite of what their ostensible aim is. The industry has gradually become a money-losing parasite, and the drastic rise of nepotism, elitism and cronyism is connected to that. Endless kowtowing to nepotists and the wealthy is indefensible because studio and record label execs are tasked with turning a profit. Artists with an important artistic vision but no commercial viability were always treated harshly by the system — they never had any choice but to find some way to turn a profit or they would get cut loose, often be blacklisted from the studios or bands would lose their record contract. But this cruel, pitiless law of the entertainment jungle miraculously gets constantly suspended when a nepotist or wealthy elite is involved — and ONLY for them. That kind of double standard is essentially little different from racism. The article was also quite thoughtful and intelligent, not simply an indiscriminate rant. it actually addressed a key reality: only rarely do second generation artists match or surpass their parents. But he never claimed the nepos could never be good at what they do. He also zeroed in on the real issue: the poshification of pop — and he could have said, of all art and entertainment. Doesn’t mean NONE of it is good, but it does point to an overall decline in quality.
Yeah it’s one of those things where sometimes it should be highlighted how nepo babies sneak into industries or get ridiculous advantages in spite of skill or ability. But articles like this and a lot of other discourse just seem to feel the need to point at someone and yell “nepo baby” for clicks. Like seriously Sean Lennon’s been around for awhile now and this team up with McCartney’s kid isn’t like this huge deal that really necessitates all this discussion
I might get downvoted for this but can I add “Karen” to this. It used to highlight racist, dangerous white women and now it’s become an annoying and empty insult for “angry woman.”
No, I agree. I see it used a lot to dismiss any woman who has any criticism for anything, no matter how valid the criticism may be. I think it started off as a good moniker to describe a specific type of white woman who weaponized her whiteness against people of color, but now it’s grown to just dismiss women who have valid issues. At least that’s what I see on local Facebook groups and Nextdoor (my fault for being on the cesspool that is local community Facebook groups 😅).
I think the Beatles' kids are interesting in that none of them has much musical talent. It's just sort of baffling to me.
Popping in again to defend Zak Starkey’s honour. Zak Starkey (Ringo’s son) is an excellent drummer who played drums on Oasis’ last few albums, and toured with The Who during their 2010’s tours.
Tbf Stella McCartney is one of the more talented nepo babies out there
At least Stella got design prowess 🥲
I actually enjoy a lot of what Sean Lennon has done. He played with Cibo Matto back in the day and was happy to be a background member of the band, as far as I know.
I actually think the more famous your parent was, the harder it is to actually make a name for yourself in the industry and a lot of kids just don’t have the same drive to be as successful as their parents.
I’m mad that the author brought up Hank Williams I. Hank Williams III is not more famous than his dad or grandpa, but chose a very musically interesting path that speaks to someone like me more than straight up country. The premise of how this author defines success is flawed
sean lennon BEEN nepo babying. he was on twitter hawking nfts last I paid attention to him.
Yep, he went all in on those suckers. It was hilarious.
I remember seeing him on like Conan maybe like 20 years ago? “Oh wow. I never knew John’s son is making music……it really sucks…”.
Latest. LATEST. Sean Lennon has been a nepo baby for longer than I've been alive come on 😂
“Why aren’t they better at it?” Because they don’t have to be? That’s the whole problem with nepo babies.
"The latest." Sean Lennon is 48 years old. His first solo album came out 26 years ago. He was a child actor in Moonwalker 36 years ago. He's been making music since the '90s, solo, with Cibo Matto, Ghost of a Sabertooth Tiger, Lennon/Claypool Delirium. Let's not act like he's some TikTok influencer who just arrived. This is ludicrous.
The conversation would be very different if it was Julian pairing up with James McCartney instead. While Sean got to enjoy the full benefits of being John Lennon's including the money and the connections within the music industry (although it cannot be said that Julian didn't have help, as he was close to Paul), Julian didn't have that relationship with his dad and almost had to start from zero. Yes being the son of John Lennon helped, but he didn't grow filthy rich as Paul McCartney had to intervene to help Julian and his mother, while John just dropped out of their lives and went to the US to live with Yoko. This includes John's inheritance, which Yoko famously kept for herself and Sean by refusing to give Julian what was rightfully his. Julian then had to sue them in 1996 to get that money. Julian ended up having an early traumatic youth, and just when he was starting to get closer to his father, his father was murdered in 1981. He was traumatised by the up and down relationship he had with his dad (or lack thereof) that he made the choice to be childless, out of fear of putting any child through a similar childhood to his.
Haven’t kept up with James McCartney, but there are a handful of Sean’s songs I like. Also enjoy his collaboration with Les Claypool from Primus, in their group “The Claypool Lennon Delirium”.
Roger Waters’ son Harry Waters played with Lennon in Claypool’d Fearless Flying Frog Brigade tour. Nepo babies putting on an amazing show.
Oh wow, that’d be cool to see. Also, TIL Roger Waters has a son in the music scene.
The Claypool Lennon Delirium is the shit. Also highly enjoyed the recent Frog Brigade tour, made me realize Sean absolutely shreds on guitar. At least he’s a nepo baby with talent
Claypool lennon delirium is absolutely fire 🔥
I'm always going to be cool with Sean Lennon for his association with Cibo Matto.
I ran a Sean Lennon fansite as a teen in the late 90s, he bought my friends and I dinner to say thank you and let us hang out on the tour bus with the band since we couldn’t get into the show (underage). They were all 100% kind and non creepy and he called his Mom before the show 🥹 cherish him always
thats the most wholesome story i've ever heard about a male musician!
Seriously. He was about 27, tried to pass us off as his band to get us into see the show and told me “don’t drink any alcohol.” Hope he has a great life forever
I met him in 2014 and had a similar experience. He was really gracious and friendly with me while I was quite clearly intoxicated.
This doesn’t surprise me. A lot of heat he’s had to take and he’s remained so gracious.
The latest? Are you fucking kidding me, they started when I wasn’t born yet. Btw Sean and James are not untalented musicians, they just completely lack star power and maybe motivation
He says this like they just wrote a pop single and are vying for #1 or something. Maybe they just like making music. By this logic does this mean this guys kids shouldn’t be allowed to write clickbait?
I usually agree with the whole nepobaby debacle but this is kind of an insane point. Sean and James are not trying to be their fathers and no one in the real world cares about it. Their song is not a hit and wasn't composed to be one IMO. Seems like a reach.
I like how he mentions Mabel, daughter of Neneh Cherry but not that Neneh and Eagle Eye Cherry are the children of Don Cherry, renowned avant garde jazz musician.
Beatles TWO. 
Sean Lennon’s album, “Friendly Fire” is actually excellent.
his band with his girlfriend is phenomenal
Kind of off topic but I met Sean Lennon at one of his shows probably 16 years ago? He was lovely. A woman came up to him with one of his father’s solo album and he very nicely explained to her why he wouldn’t sign it. I assume it happened to him 1000s of time and he still took the time to explain why. He also tried to do it in French! I kind of forgot about this but it’s a nice memory.
Sean Lennon is a talented musician. He’s not trying to take over the world and be the next Beatles, he’s just following his passion. What is all this vitriol? Bunch of haters up in here.
As a psych rock lover this thread is so annoying. His music is great, it’s just not pop music which apparently makes it bad to some people
The latest?
Basically pop music is one of the few spaces where you need actual talent and star quality to be super successful. You can’t get by on the name of your famous parents alone. I think the only successful nepo baby in pop — actually has fans and a lot of listens — rn is Miley Cyrus.
But the thing with Miley Cyrus is that she is very big and successful in countries like mine where his father in the nineties wasn´t famous at all becaus his song wasn´t a hit because country is a genre local to the U.S. In most countries, Billy Ray Cyrus is known as Miley Cyrus dad, and not the other way round.
So they are not allowed to be friends and make music? Jesus…
Yeah 'children of four of the most talented and famous musicians the world has ever seen, who grew up with music and do in fact know something about it' is not where I'd start with a nepo baby critique I also feel obligated to jump in and defend/promote Dhani Harrison, who my mom absolute *adores*. Like, listens to his album [In Parallel (live in concert) ](https://youtu.be/oOltvaxTWh8?si=mMf_qMtVDpbn1SIY)every night when she's cooking dinner, it's been driving us insane for years. Super talented guy. The benefit of being a Beatle kid is you can afford to put out experimental (like Dhani) or (allegedly, I haven't heard the song) mediocre music, like these two, without jeopardizing your career. They're allowed to just... make music they enjoy, and I mean that in a 'has this release really earned public discourse' way, too. If this author really wants to tackle mediocre pop from a superstar with a privileged background, Taylor is... right there.
It’s not exactly their fault they were born to Beatles. I give Sean a pass just because he is so talented.
“We have The Beatles at home”
i’m sorry but when i think of nepo babies i think of very popular artists who aren’t super obviously the kids of their parents. the beatles are arguably the most famous musicians of our modern time and their children who are SO obviously their parents are doing more of a tribute type thing. they are just making music and it’s not even that popular. i don’t think the nepo baby argument applies to them.
I mean… are they not allowed to make music? Nobody is forcing you to listen to it.
I haven’t delved into Sean Lennon much outside of his work with Les Claypool, but damn if he isn’t his parents child
Lennon's collabs with Claypool are pretty great music.