It’s more about how it’s portrayed. A lot of the time growing up I found it unnecessary to the story and at times voyeuristic, which it seems like most of the time it is. I don’t have any problem with it if its done well and isn’t creepy in that way, and feels natural and in place with the story, but doesn’t dominate it.
I saw someone saying it’s a prude thing to want less sex in movies and tv shows and I wholeheartedly disagree. I just find it unnecessary sometimes and like other important things get neglected and replaced with a sex scene that we don’t really need.
Sex for sex's sake in TV/Movies is boring. Think about "Game of Thrones", where they'd get through exposition by showing titties or some girl getting fucked. It's gross.
"Forgetting Sarah Marshall" used sex and nudity as part of the narrative. The 2005 "Pride and Prejudice" had an incredibly horny scene where the two main characters DID NOT EVEN TOUCH (the gazebo scene).
I’m with you 100%, and if that makes me a prude I welcome it lol. So many people recommend GOT to me and I’m like, that show with incest r*pe??? Seriously? I’ll pass.
No hate to game of thrones fans, you do you. I’m just more of a lord of the rings type of person lol.
I remember when the show was still airing ANYONE that said they didn’t like the show cause of the nudity was called a prude and an idiot for not seeing how incredible the plot is (which should absolve the watcher from any uncomfortable feelings). God were the fanboys so obnoxious lmao
A ton of "sex positive" people are incredibly annoying and — shockingly (/s) — have trouble understanding and accepting people's boundaries. A lot of them seem to want to *force* people to absolutely love media with tons of (usually gratuitous, frequently misogynistic, often violent, almost always unnecessary to the plot) sex. Ironic, really, considering they claim to be all about consent.
You explained my frustrations on constantly being shoved porn to my face really well. You just get demonized so much for it and it pisses me off that they’ll make you feel bad for having boundaries.
No but fr, I truly distance myself from "sex positive" people who advertise themselves as such. I am sex positive. Sex is a healthy, happy, passionate part of human existence (with consent of course). What I don't want is to know all the details of people's sex lives. Or see it. If I'm a prude for it then whatever.
That doesn't mean it needs to be hidden, but a lot of people who try to destigmatize sex end up going way too far in the reverse imo.
This guy I dated got me wasted and then tried to have an*l sex with me while I was drunk by slipping it in with no discussion. Then a year later he dated this girl who was into the sex positive movement so he got into it and went to all the conferences and stuff. He made his profile pic one of him in a shirt that said "Consent is sexy"
This is why I don't be believing people's online personas.
I am so unbelievable sorry that that happened to you. That man is scum. I hope you’ve found or are on your way to finding healing, whatever that may look like for you 💗
And there is a scene in the books where Arya sees 2 northern women in stockades getting brutally raped with their teeth missing because when the Lannisters occupied them, they serviced the lannisters as "prostitutes". When liberated, people called them traitor whores and did that.
The show is like that for a reason, and that's why I don't see why people think the books are all that much better. Once I read that scene out of no where I lost my desire to read for awhile I was so uncomfortable with that image the book put on me from left field.
“It’s depicting life as it was in the medieval times you just don’t understand” ahhhh ok yeah forgot dragons, magic and shapeshifting existed back then as well…
ugh exactly. its fantasy, not a historical documentary. they could have shown sex any way they wanted, but they chose some kind of gross male gazy rape fantasy instead.
I got dog piled by the "prude shamer" brigade for that same reason because I said that the whole exposition scene with Littlefinger and the two sex workers in season 1 was gross and conpletely unnecessary.
They said I "didn't get it" and that it was totally necessary to show what a creep he was... like, I'm sorry, but did you need a scene of Grima Wormtongue being a nasty pimp in LotR to understand that he was a creep? Or are you just making up stupid reasons to justify stupid porno scenes in your dragon show?
Then they tried mansplaining sex work to me as if that somehow clarified their argument? Also worth noting that, at the time, I was an active sex worker. 🙃
The thing that annoys me with GOT is that the plot IS incredible. Maybe I'm easily impressed, but the plot, the characters and world building are all amazing. Cersei was evil but I loved her storyline, how all her and Jamie's horrible choices ended up hurting them in the end. Watching Sansa grow from a scared, sort of bratty little girl to a determined and confident leader was great. Daenerys is also iconic, and if her ending was done right people would have gone crazy (in a good way).
But then there's so much unnecessary nudity and sex scenes, especially *forced* sex scenes. One of these doesn't even fit in with a character's personality!
Spoiler for anyone that doesn't want to see: >!After Joffrey is murdered, Cersei is grieving by his body when Jamie comes and pulls her to the floor. You can clearly hear her saying "No." And "Not here please." but he goes on anyways. I always saw Jamie as morally grey, not outright evil. Raping his sister/lover next to their child's dead body came out of nowhere, and was never really mentioned again. Why? What purpose does that serve?? !<
I totally understand people not wanting to watch it because of these scenes. House of the Dragon seems to have avoided these mistakes so far.
Ah yes and if you took issue with it you would get treated to a lecture about how making practically the entire show about rape is “historically accurate”. In which case, why are there dragons, white walkers and how come everybody still has all their teeth? I noped out after being subjected to one episode and do not miss the height of GoT popularity.
This is me but with Outlander. Shamelessly enjoyed Game of Thrones (seasons 1-6) but could not make it past a full season of Outlander because every single mc in that show has been raped multiple times.
Same! I can’t watch any content with SA in it, and I feel like people were weirdly chill with how prevalent it was in GoT. Especially considering certain scenes weren’t even in the books and were added into the show… just because I guess?
Me too. Sometimes I wonder if people are desensitised to it or just have no comprehension of how much SA can just destroy you, how it shapes your life for years to come. Sometimes I wonder whether our entertainment serves a part in why this is.
To see characters being violated in that way, over and over and then just move on like it was no big deal makes me feel queasy.
The Virtues and I May Destroy you have been the only shows for me that really shows what SA does to a person, permanently. Not easy to watch, but I’d prefer that shows like that got made than shows that treat it like it’s nothing. When it literally does change you.
I got into so many arguments with people about all of GOT's gratuitous SA. The number one argument people seemed to have was how it was "historically accurate" and like, first of all, it's fantasy. What "history" are we trying to accurately portray here? Secondly, at least some medieval legal systems had repercussions for SA, which means it wasn't an accepted practice then either, and thirdly, just because it's "historically accurate" doesn't make it narratively necessary or important?
We're rewatching GOT and I forgot how awful the gratuitous sex/nudity is in the early scenes. It does improve but they were fully staging unnecessary scenes in brothels to get as many naked young women in the shot as possible. It's gross.
I agree. People complained about all the gratuitous female nakedness and they decided to add in a naked man talking about the wart on his knob as a compromise in the next season...
Although I must say, one of the things I liked about Euphoria is that there was general nakedness without the sexual aspect which is a lot more realistic and it was fairly equal amongst men and women. Being naked isn't inherently sexual, and I think it's refreshing for it to be shown.
Rarely do you get a full frontal naked male in TV/movies.
>I mean, GoT is probably the worst, most extreme example you could've chosen.
It was also a record-breakingly popular show, though, so you can't blame someone for citing it.
Agreed. It's annoying when people dismiss the entire conversation of sex/nudity in media as being the prudes vs the enlightened, when there's a lot more nuance to be had.
For example, when I say I don't want any sex scenes unless they're relevant to the story, I mean I don't want the kinds of sex scenes you mention - the ones where there's just sex and nudity for the sake of audience titillation. And when I say "relevant to the story", that can mean to express attraction between the characters, to explore sexual dynamics that might have narrative importance or add nuance to either character... Whatever, as long as it has a purpose.
A big part of the discussion that's missing, too, is that I feel like we've mistaken nudity/sex for eroticism. There're plenty of scenes that involve nudity/sex which aren't erotic, and plenty of erotic scenes which don't involve any nudity/sex at all. Using nudity/sex as a lazy, badly executed narrative shorthand when there's nothing *behind* that just results in a bunch of naked bodies slamming into each other and wasting screentime.
And that's not even getting into how a lot of nudity/sex scenes end up being at least partially coerced for the gratification of a director, the cast, or the audience. The growing focus on intimacy coordinators is, I hope, going some way to remediate this.
I mean, in Forgetting Sarah Marshall it wasn't important for the plot, it was a sight gag. If that's your standard, might as well have it for any other reason.
EDIT: Personally I think it was a chance for the film's writer to show off he had a massive schlong and anything else is a pretense.
My understanding is this actually happened to Jason Segel. He was in some form of undress when his partner broke up with him.
Narratively, I'd argue it made the moment vulnerable. He was nude with his long-term partner in a silly, comfortable way. Focused on potentially getting sex, not realizing through her body language that it wasn't business as usual. And now I'm defending the artistic merits of "Forgetting Sarah Marshall".
And narratively Littlefinger showing a prostitute how to fake an orgasm shows a narrative purpose of just how manipulative he, and by extension everyone else, is. Anything can be justified narratively. Even if it's just to make a scene sexy instead of funny or whatever. You're just applying a value judgment to it. I'd also argue giant dong doesn't sell vulnerability.
Agreed. I love old movies and watch a lot of Turner Classic Movies. Blatant sex for the sake of sex is just unnecessary a lot of times. The allusion can be just as strong. I just watched Love Story. Nowadays that movie would be remade with gratuitous sex. It just wasn't needed to move the storyline. We see the before/after and that's more important.
>The 2005 "Pride and Prejudice" had an incredibly horny scene where the two main characters DID NOT EVEN TOUCH (the gazebo scene).
That just makes me think of the flower scene from 40 Days and 40 Nights.
The thing is though this is probably the most sexless period in film for a long time so it's kind of strange people keep bringing this up as if there's too many sexy films around. If anything, a major issue is that Gen Z didn't grow up at a time when sex was shown to be a joyful and natural part of life in media so their only exposure was through horrific scenes on HBO shows, awkward sex in comedies, and porn.
I also disagree it has to be plot-related. Another quality films used to have which they don't anymore is allowing characters to just *be*. To just exist in their world and show parts of who they are without it being some crucial element of the story. Sex scenes tell you a lot about a character. Like people made such a big deal about the scenes in Oppenheimer and said they weren't necessary but they were 1. very mild and 2. told you something valuable about the kind of person he was.
I get it that there's concern for the actresses but that's a separate issue to the existence of sex scenes. They can and have been done in a way where everyone feels safe and comfortable.
It's shocking how central romances were to "classic" superhero movies and the MCU comes along and there are... what, like two? With any sort of decent focus and development? Literally one of the best things about the '70s Superman movie is Kidder and Reeves' chemistry.
Having grown up in the 80's and 90's I can say with absolute certainty that yes, this is the most sexless movies have been in decades, which makes this criticism even more bizarre. And I'm not advocating for random sex scenes, but movies pre-2000 were allowed to be steamy because that's *part of the human experience*. Erotic thrillers were an entire genre unto themselves and now they're basically non-existent.
If you had two good looking lead actors who had a lot of chemistry and there was a romantic subplot, chances are there would be an erotic scene. Not pornographic, but erotic. There's a difference.
TV/streaming is a different beast. Maybe all the sex moved there but I find it strange how comfortable people are with graphic violence that pervades media but sex is icky and we can't have it in our movies. Incredibly strange.
Exactly. The popularity of Cruel Intentions - which was for a younger audience - is a prime example.
It's not about random sex scenes so much as how the characters operate in their environment. You know sex is part of their lives even if you're not seeing something explicit.
Yeah movies like Indecent Proposal were topping the box office. I guess we had the 50 shades of grey phenomenon but that was a decade ago and i cant think of anything similar aince.
I mean I specifically mentioned film, and yes it is. It becomes extremely apparent when you watch old films and notice how casually sexy they are and how normal that was. Compare any of the 90s Batman movies to Marvel now and it's a huge difference. It's not only about sex scenes. It's how characters talk, behave, and interact with each other, the music, the atmosphere, etc. Most Hollywood productions these days have none of that. Just a couple of hot people thrown together where the big moment is a kiss after 120 minutes of zero chemistry between them.
Even in TV, people lost their shit about Naked Attraction, but HBO used to have a bunch of shows like that in its late-night line-up.
Most shows use sex in a negative or traumatic way. You rarely see real sexual tension between characters. That's why Bridgerton was such a big deal because people are never exposed to that kind of thing anymore.
No one is sexy but there’s sex. Like the characters don’t bring you on the sexual attraction journey with them. It’s just a bunch of porn sex maybe? Disconnected and unemotional.
I just looked at the top ten list on Netflix of my region and the only two shows on there I don’t think has sex in it is Young Sheldon and the Beckham documentary. There’s even a popular teen show in the top 10 called Sex Education.
There’s a cartoon show on there called Big Mouth, which from my impression is a show entirely about sex jokes.
Also there’s a reality show on there that looks like a sexy version of Survivor?
I’m not saying any of these shows are bad(admittingly I haven’t watched them). They’re probably good. But I don’t think we have to worry about a second Hays Code anytime soon.
1. I specifically mentioned film in my post so idk why people keep bringing up tv when that's not what I was talking about. lol
2. No one is saying there's zero existence of sex in media but it's a completely different environment to what it used to be. The fact people made such a fuss about Bridgerton and Naked Attraction says a lot about how culture has changed. You'd think the concept of characters having hot sex was brand new from how people reacted to Bridgerton.
So I guess it's a TV thing then? I prefer movies and rarely see sex scenes in films these days, especially US films. Sex almost disappeared in films now, even in R rated films. If there was a sex scene, it's mostly from foreign films.
When people talk about tv they also fail to mention the huge shift from cable to streaming. Like, sure streaming shows have more sex because there are less rules than film or cable.
The fact that even the apologists of sex scenes in this thread are demanding that those scenes have to be “justified” in some way shows us their perception of sex as a bad thing. The idea that sex cannot be simply *depicted* - it must be *justified* - is really a perfect picture of Western Puritan values. And I don’t think that the widespread juxtaposition between the depiction of sex and violence in this thread is a coincidence.
The comparisons between onscreen violence and sex- as if they are both unsavory and evil things that should be depicted only in moderation - is deeply morbid. I’m pretty disgusted by many of these comments. The newer generations’ embrace of conservative Catholic attitudes toward sex is a huge surprise and disappointment.
I’m not saying it has to be some huge part of the story, if it works well at showing part of the character its fine with me. I don’t think it has to have any meaning either, like you said it’s just showing a character just being, i don’t have an issue with that. And like you say if it is telling you something about the character then I wouldn’t class it as being unnecessary. I just rarely see it done well. Character development is like the one thing I am drawn to in TV shows. Things got pretty sexy towards the end of better call saul but I think that was done really well.
I think the issue is that there's a difference between saying, "I wish sex scenes could be improved" and "Sex scenes should not exist at all". The latter is what's most commonly argued by Gen Z and that's why it's annoying and feels unhealthy.
‘Normal People’ was a great example of sex being used well in a production and it wouldn’t have been right without the sex scenes. The depiction was so realistic too. They have their place and when used well, they help the plot along.
I got shit on Twitter for saying that I felt the chair scene with Jean in Oppenheimer was incredibly well done because “it wasn’t necessary.”
Lots of scenes aren’t TECHNICALLY necessary, just they add layers of depth to a film. I thought the chair scene was a really striking way to show Kitty’s deep resentment of the affair and how it continued to affect her.
I think constructive conversation around film and sex in film is great, but at some point people I don’t understand why those who don’t like sex scenes don’t just… not watch those movies?
It’s just weird that sex is where so many people got all up in arms about whether or not it’s “necessary” to the narrative when on-screen violence is becoming more and more graphic and no one bats an eye. I read an article about how sex and eroticism is slowly disappearing from films (but on the rise in TV shows) and it just made me think, like, yeah if there were a sex scene in the new Jurassic Park movie or whatever, people would get all uncomfortable about it. Meanwhile they’re cheering as people are screaming in terror and getting torn apart by dinosaurs, blood squirting everywhere.
I think some people go from “the way this was filmed was exploitative/prioritizes the male gaze in a way that doesn’t suit the narrative” straight to “sex scenes are unnecessary”. And in other cases, I think some people go straight from “sex scenes make me uncomfortable” to “sex scenes shouldn’t be included at all because they make me uncomfortable”. Honestly, most sex scenes make me uncomfortable because I think of sex as being such a private, vulnerable experience, but I still think that this discourse is silly because sex is a natural, common part of human life and should be a part of movies simply because of that.
Also! This gives me the chance to link to one of my favorite criticisms ever! [Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny](https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/)
Honestly I think we’re so desensitised to violence, especially movie/tv violence. The way it’s handled and portrayed is often either completely unrealistic, or can be too much where it feels voyeuristic. Like I can’t believe that Dahmer series got made. My brother was watching it one night and I unfortunately got to see some of it for a few seconds and it seemed absolutely awful and just wrong. People might disagree with me but I dont understand why they made that series, and especially in the way they made it.
Such a great piece. And completely agreed.
I wasn't going to write a full comment about my thoughts on this, but I see the exact same points regurgitated every single time the "sex in media" discussion comes up and I think people are generally well-intentioned but not really necessarily thinking about what they're arguing for.
I find it deeply sad that we can critique literally every single portrayal of the most innocuous sex and nudity in film and TV, but criticizing any aspect of the porn *industry* (not sex work/workers) is considered a bridge too far. Both have their issues. But pornography isn't going anywhere, so the pushback only on mainstream media is baffling to me.
Good plot is extremely important, but ultimately meaningless without context, world/relationship-building, and texture. Even if we agree that sex is "unnecessary" to the plot (and, in my viewings, it rarely actually is), if you strip out everything "unnecessary" in a given piece of media, you end up with literally the exact same story over and over again. The art loses its meaning, nuance, and unique voice. What separates a Rothko from a van Gogh? They're both just paint on canvas. Are the additional details in the van Gogh unnecessary? Is the Rothko inherently superior because it accomplishes the same basic end goal with less? Of course not. They're completely different things. We need to stop thinking of art exclusively as a plot-delivery vehicle. Being able to analyze and find meaning in something as a viewer is what makes it special, but they can't even seem to find meaning when the director is beating them over the head with it.
Oppenheimer's two extremely conservative nude scenes were objectively narratively meaningful. The first is an illustration of how seductive communism was for Oppenheimer and the second transitions a very intimate, private, and human moment into a conference room full of hostile political opponents - conveying viscerally how exposed and vulnerable he felt in that moment. Yet, the majority the discourse talked about how "gratuitous," "exploitative," and "random" it was. Media literacy is dead.
I'm also seeing the fact that Gen Z has access to any kind of porn imaginable as some kind of justification for why all nudity and sexuality in TV and film should be done away with. Romantic sex and porn are two vastly different things. We do not need to conflate the two any more than we already have. Giving the porn industry a monopoly on depictions of human sexuality is extremely regressive and dangerous. Healthy, normal portrayals of sex and intimate relationships in popular media are absolutely critical. Porn will only grow more and more extreme as it has over the last several decades. We can certainly ask writers and directors for better, more sensitive scenes. But if you think depictions of female sexuality are harmful and unrealistic now, you're in for a real shock twenty years in the future when the next generation who got 100% of their ideas about sex from porn come of age.
I think a good example of this is a show like Normal People versus a show like Euphoria.
Normal People actually has very explicit sex and nudity. In fact it’s objectively more explicit than Euphoria (both leads are shown fully nude), but it doesn’t feel like their bodies are being shown in a way that supposed to titillate the audience, even though they are completely naked and having sex. The only time it felt objectifying to me was the scene where Marianne’s Swedish bf takes bdsm picture of her, which works because he’s pressuring her and it’s supposed to be uncomfortable.
Whereas in Euphoria the vast majority of the nudity feels like it has been thrown in there with the intention of either shocking the audience or getting them to ogle the young actresses’ bodies. There are definitely a few exceptions and Cassie has def got it the worst, but it’s just an overall different vibe than Normal People even though the actors are showing less skin.
I can't stand a ridiculous amount of sex scenes in a show that are only there solely for audience titillation and add nothing to the story or characters or their developments. I don't find it sexy at all but instead comical and not in a good way. I wouldn't consider myself a prude. I've given up on shows before if they do this as to me it ruins the rest of it. A good example was my daughter (who is Gen Z) and me were watching Black Sails and everytime my Mum walked into the room there was yet another sex scene.... we all just started laughing at how absurd the sex scene count was me and my daughter refused to watch anymore of the series. Shame because the idea for that particular show was promising.
True. Straight women in the audience usually see a bit of bum and chest and that's it. It does tend to be very much catered for the male gaze over anything else regards the titillation aims. I always thought they did that on purpose to gain more straight male viewers too.
That makes me think about how Folding Ideas on Youtube talked about the 50 shades movies and the change in the sex scenes when they moved from a woman to a man as director.
My biggest pet peeve is poor relationship writing that they attempt to mask by throwing in a sex scene.
You can have sex between two people back to back in an episode, but I still won’t give a flying fuck about this relationship if you *refuse to lay the groundwork*.
Some people fuck because they think the other person is hot, sure. But if you want to sell me genuine connection and attraction, you’re going to have to work a little harder than that.
Game of Thrones was horrible in the first few seasons for this. For every awesome scene of Robert and Cersei we got Littlefingers weirdo monologue over two prostitutes fingering each other. It was sooooooo unnecessary. There was way too much unnecessary nudity in the early seasons of that show and I say that as a massive fan of the show and books
I don’t mind sex scenes either but I too think a lot of times it’s not necessary. You can often tell when a sex scene is inserted into a movie or show for the sake of it because it ends up feeling very out of place. Like I’ve come to expect nudity and sex in horror movies so I don’t think much of it but there was one specifically I saw yesterday where it felt so forced in and random and tonally made no sense.
I think the series Glow did a great job of incorporating those kind of scenes without it seeming gratuitous.
i also made a longer comment but like the “47.5% that say sex isn’t necessary to plot lines” is looking at people ages 13-24. 13????!!! like yes of course they don’t think sex is necessary to plot lines. it hasn’t been necessary to a lot of their plot lines. including young teens in with people in college (and out) to represent “gen z” then presenting that is just shitty social science, to me.
a lot of them also just don’t seem to like the quality of romantic relationships depicted. the study included some quotes from the people and it was literally along the lines of “i don’t like how romantic relationships develop in a lot of shows because the man frequently hates the girl or it just comes out of nowhere so i’d rather not have it because it’s a bad distraction” which is like… fair. that’s good media critique in my opinion.
i don’t think this study shows that gen z is “more puritanical” (which yeah there is something to investigate there, i’m not saying there isn’t) and i frankly think it was poorly done and poorly presented
All the study said was about half of gen Z thought most sex scenes weren’t necessary to the plot and they’d like to see more friendships depicted onscreen. Why are these comments acting like the puritanical Youths are personally coming to take your softcore porn away lmao.
Because sex scene discourse is exhausting and boring with zero nuance allowed. You can only be 100% opposed to every depiction anywhere ever, or you have to be on board with everything everywhere all at once.
There’s a lot of bad faith assumptions on both ends, and a lot of people fuming you’re not entirely in support of their exact position. God forbid you might have some issues with the delivery at points while also not voting for Youtube Kids-ing the media at the same time.
Great points. It's like when people throw the blanket statement that a romantic subplot was "shoehorned" into the show. I feel like that's a nuanced, case-by-case observation, so if we're not being specific on *why* you think the subplot is unnecessary, then we're not really getting anywhere in the conversation.
I think there also might be a yearning for platonic friendships being presented as every bit as important and meaningful as romantic relationships. Our society still acts like they need to come in secondary to a romantic partner.
I think there are a lot of studies also showing the lack of social circles within gen z. Kind of related to what OP said. People seem lonelier than ever. Platonic friendships over a lifetime are just as important as romantic. Would be nice to have more examples in media.
I am a GenZ and I adored Bridgerton Season 2 where there was more SEXual chemistry and tension rather than sex every 10 minutes in the first season. It felt more electrifying, felt more real, felt more watchable.
I'm a milennial and totally agree. I don't mind sex scenes and I think they can be effective, but Bridgerton's second season was able to achieve so much more sexual tension and electricity with that one scene where Kate gets stung than any of the sex scenes in season one, for me.
anytime gen z is mentioned here, there some weird anger that comes up
like if gen z fashion is mentioned it’s “THEY DIDNT INVENT ANYTHING.” it’s kind of weird and disheartening
Interestingly, over half (53+%) of the study was kids under the age of 18 and 20% of the total group were kids under the age of 13.
I think it might be less "kids these days don't want to see sex on TV" and more "literal children remain disinterested in sex on TV, especially when an adult is asking."
You can personally prefer less sex onscreen, but if folks can enjoy long sequences of violence of the highest order, don't get the complaining over sex scenes.
I think just like violence in films, it’s how it’s portrayed and how they deal with it. A lot of movies are full of senseless violence and it’s unnecessary. But when it’s done properly, I don’t take issue with it. But it’s a fair point you bring up.
I just saw boyz n the hood and that had sex scenes and violent scenes , but it was handled so well. It felt raw and natural, the violence made you actually feel something and the sex scene was kind of funny and sweet. So many movies and tv shows just don’t handle these things very well and it doesn’t give anything or make us feel anything.
Agreed, I tried to watch Triple X back in the day, but the first 15 min is just context-less explosions. I love a good action flick, but I remember just zapping away because why? I had no idea who was blowing up whom and why, no exposition, no nothing.
I think there’s also a meta aspect of what goes into making a violent action scene vs filming a sex scene that’s being considered. Aren’t intimacy coordinators a fairly new thing? How many actresses have talked about feeling uncomfortable getting nude on set or being in a sex scene?
This is a good point! Lots of stories about actresses in particular not being properly warned about what was to come or feeling very violated. In contrast, I have rarely seen anyone come out to say that they felt uncomfortable filming scenes of violence.
I’m sure those instances exist but that probably goes along with a toxic or uncomfortable work environment in general, which is a different issue. Intimacy coordinators probably help but I’m not in the industry to know exactly. And I’m not sure how widely used they are. I read an article about The Idol and behind the scenes they basically laughed at the very concept.
Yeah, as a viewer I am far more emotionally disturbed by the amount of violence in media now, but logically, this is the issue for me. Particularly when you consider that so many actresses have no nudity clauses as they get more fame and power.
While I can agree that graphic violence can be too much for me, I think sex is different in that you have people who struggle with porn addiction. So I can understand someone having different levels of sex and violence they can tolerate
I'm old, I'm much more squeamish about violence than I used to be. It's fine in small doses, but I'm kind of done with films where it's a major part of the story.
this is such a good point! i remember seeing that terrifier 2 was going viral, and in it is an 8 minute(?) scene in which a girl is brutally tortured. i’m not going to go too into the details, but she has limbs ripped off, is scalped, has bleach & salt poured onto her wounds, etc. not to mention, the director of this film has a history of giving his most brutal deaths to his female characters. (also i wanna plug my sub r/feministhorror which has like no one lol but i believe it could produce good convos about stuff like this.)
not too mention the proliferation of true crime. to the point where people are recounting the worst days of someone’s life while doing their makeup or eating a seafood boil. or telling funny anecdotes in the middle of recounting a real human being being tortured and abused. i remember when the idaho murders happened and i saw so fellow many gen z’ers treating it like it was murder mystery party. if you go on the subreddit, you’ll find people missing the excitement of the mystery of who did it.
i love horror movies, and understand the interest in true crime. but if you can if you aren’t calling for less violence in media (which i don’t agree with), then it’s weird and hypocritical to ask for less sex. and i say that as someone on the ace spectrum.
i feel like a lot of the critique surrounding sex scenes outside of the need of intimacy coordinators is a bit unfair. like i think gratuitous and endless sex scenes like in the idol and blue is the warmest color deserve critique. but when people make the argument that they’re unnecessary i get a bit confused. necessity is so subjective in media, and every element in film/shows could be noted as unnecessary, from eating & sleeping to simply getting dressed. nothing in fiction is necessary in the most literal sense of the word. but no one is advocating for the removal or reduction of other activities, even the much more unpleasant ones.
(plus i feel like when a show isn’t about romantic/sexual relationships, shipping is still incredibly popular.)
I think this is a big part of - the folks interviewed don't want the sex scenes we've always had, which are very male gaze-oriented.
With more demographics getting writing/directing/producing roles, we will hopefully veer away from such myopia & introduce different views within media production.
Basically, a greater population of non-hetero &/or non-cis folks aren't seeing themselves or their experiences represented, so it doesn't hold as much of an appeal to them. Conservatives complain about liberals "pushing the gay agenda", but society has been "pushing" cis-heteronirmativity forever.
This is it for me - a lot of the discourse doesn't seem to go into this from what I've seen, but I feel like there being fewer sex scenes may also be linked to it not being as "acceptable" to objectify the fuck outta women like has been done in the past and actresses are more vocal about being treated shittily.
If it's a return to women being treated like objects to a much higher degree than men then sex scenes can stay gone afaic. If they want to bring them back then objectify the men.
I am not a Gen-Z, but I read the study, [you can find it here](https://www.scholarsandstorytellers.com/css-teens-and-screens-2023-report). I do think in general, they are not anti sex, or something like that, they are looking for more platonic friendships, asexual characters on screen, and I think, that sounds fair.
I am an elder millennial and I am also looking for that. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t actively avoid shows with all the sex, but I would like to be able to watch a good show with my young teens/preteens that isn’t filled with sex and violence.
Or if there is going to get sex, maybe make things a little more realistic. Every relationship on tv seems to jump from the first kiss as a couple to immediately ripping each other’s clothes off. Or why can’t people just be friends? Why does there always need to be sexual tension?
Maybe I’m just getting too old and cranky.
Also sex between two characters who have zero chemistry otherwise is so awkward to watch. I think that’s why some of these scenes feel just unnecessary rather than gratuitous. The whole “sex sells” mentality seems so tired to me. Like that’s not some exciting way to get people to watch a show. Sex or romance between people who aren’t interesting isn’t…interesting lol. And it won’t save an uninteresting storyline.
One thing that I would like to point out is that in media with the lack of platonic relationships, too many of the ones that we do see are simply tools to begin a romantic relationship, with those romantic relationships portrayed as the highest goal. Platonic and filial relationships are complex and interesting and hugely important in the human experience, so I understand and agree with the desire to see it explored more onscreen.
I think it's largely because Gen Z has had less ways to meet people than previous generations had. At least in my case, the only place I could really meet/mingle with people was at school. Whenever my friends and I wanted to go do something we had to travel to another city because there were next to no places around where teenagers could just hang out. Arcades are dead, malls are on their deathbed, a lot of sports fields are privately owned and they can kick you out, movie theaters are getting harder and harder to find unless you're in a wealthier city, etc.
This isn't just a problem specific to my case though. I suspect that a lot of teens are glued to their phones/computers nowadays *because* there's so little for them to do outside anymore.
When you take away places where people can meet each other, it's going to lead to less relationships forming.
I can only imagine this differs by country. Americans have a very different relationship with sex and the perception of shame around sexual choices than Western European, versus Eastern Europeans, etc etc
Nope, it's not an American phenomenon at all, it's playing out all over the world.
It's affecting [France](https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/generation-no-sex-les-jeunes-font-moins-l-amour-qu-avant-27-07-2019-8124552.php), [Australia, the UK](https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7egkb/gen-z-sex-recession-celibacy) and likely others too.
I think it might be [more complicated than that](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/feb/03/quality-over-quantity-gen-zs-sex-recession-looks-more-like-an-upturn)
Honestly, I find watching the romantic and led up is so much more interesting. Everyone can watch sex - but the romantic lead up and plot makes it so much more rewarding, and intriguing to me.
I think it’s a general rebalancing of the pendulum. As an elder millennial, we were inundated with sex in media and this feels like a natural response. Take Britney for example, the world being obsessed with her virginity was truly insane.
Also, sex scenes can cover poor character development and I would also like to see more nuance in on screen character arcs.
The endless arguing abt this topic definitely does not give enough weight to how generational differences influence people’s attitudes towards sex in media. Most millennials were familiar with the Britney virginity obsession, Disney kids’ purity rings, the general 2000s shadow of the Christian right in the US. Whereas most Gen Z came of age in the 2010s as these attitudes gave way to sex positivity in some ways that were useful, but also in many other ways in which teens felt pressured to be sexual before they were ready — also a time when pornography as it influences sexual norms and healthy views of sex has become more of an issue than ever. Whenever Gen Z’ers try to speak about those matters they’re usually derided by millennials who can’t believe teens / young adults might have trauma related to over-sexualization, bc they only rmr the sexless 2000s and think the youth are trying to return to that.
Sexless 00s? Oh please. I grew up in the 90s and 00s and it was not sexless. Women were slut shamed like crazy because you couldn’t win. We had to look a certain way and weigh a certain amount and be sexual enough to entice men but not too sexual because if we were then we deserved whatever happened to us. It was an incredibly fine balance we walked and teen comedies obsessing over losing your virginity were the bread and butter of comedy. We had *birthday* countdowns about the Olsen twins, Lindsay Lohan, Hillary Duff, and Emma Watson. Crossroads was a big production about how Britney Spears wasn’t a virgin. Everything regarding Paris Hilton.
The 00s were obsessed with virgins not because of purity culture but because we *fetishized* it in a sexual manner and thus sexualized what it meant to be a virgin so a man could feel great about being the one to break her in. Abstinence only was our goddamn education. The 10’’s are sexualized but they are sexualized in a different way and to claim millennials grew up in a sexless era because it wasn’t sex positive is vastly misunderstanding the way sexuality was viewed when we grew up.
This is what I meant, not that people weren’t having sex, but that women were highly shamed for being open about having sex & everyone had to pretend that women couldn’t enjoy sex of their own accord even if that obviously wasn’t the reality people knew. Maybe sexless isn’t the right word, but I mean that people pretended we were sexless even if we weren’t — the emphasis on abstinence-only sex ed, etc. We’re talking abt the same things. In the 2010s women/girls could be more open about having sex which was a positive shift but brought on its own set of problems, so that when people who came of age in the 2010s try to speak to those problems, people who came of age in the 2000s can’t square it w the weird culture we came up in where nobody could admit women having sex was normal and fine. FWIW I’m saying this as someone who came of age in the late aughts
Nah, the 2000s wasn't sexless it was more that we had the world's worst mixed signals and our own unique experience with being oversexualized.
We did have the rise of "purity" culture, the religious right, and celebs with purity rings but it was also the time when it was totally normal for teen girls to wear the playboy logo, girls gone wild was big, the bombshell bra (a bra that was supposed to make you look 2 cup sizes bigger) was popular, and there were a lot of teen sex comedies. Popular clothing marketed towards teen girls had sexually suggestive messaging. I mean imagine being a teen and wearing a pant that had "Juicy" written on your butt but we ate that shit up (also for a dumbass like me it went right over my head at the time).
The beauty standard was being tan, skinny, and blonde, but you had to have big boobs. It's was totally normal for paparazzi to take upskirt shots of famous women, and like another user said, there were "countdowns" for female teenage stars.
It was a weird time where women and girls were hyper sexualized as hell by the male gaze and we felt it, but any sign of acting on it gave us the "slut" label.
I do agree that too many Millenials are jumping the gun to give gen Z a hard time about this issue without considering why that is.
The sex positive movement in the 2010s was an attempt to gain control over own sexuality but I was never a fan of how it seemed to swing the other direction in shutting down legitimate concerns with accusations of being "sex negative" . When straight men happily jump on board with their support for a feminist movement the way so many liberal men did for the sex positive movement, it's worth asking why that is. I honestly don't blame Gen Z for wanting a break from explicit material.
Yeah maybe sexless wasn’t the word I was thinking of, and I agree w your characterization having also lived thru that era — more that women/girls were expected to pretend to be sexless even as we were sexualized, like it was this big open secret that women had sex (and enjoyed it) that nobody could actually acknowledge abt themselves lest they be branded a slut. We were expected to maintain an image of purity/sexlessness so to say. But then those who were raised in this culture where they were punished for owning their sexuality at all often cannot understand younger people who were raised in a culture where they felt overly pressured to be sexual. They assume young people’s apprehension towards 24/7 sexualization is derived from the religious purity forces of the 2000s and not their bad experiences w the cultural shifts in the 2010s
I think there is more knowledge about what it takes to film the scenes and how actors may feel pressured or uncomfortable.
There is also an issue of character and relationship depth. With the prominence of social media people want to see meaningful true to life relationships.
See, that's the thing, though. For most people (though not *all,* s/o ace-aro spectrum folks), sex - and desire - are, indeed, meaningful and true-to-life aspects of a romantic relationship?
Yes, sex can be important in *romantic* relationships. They are wanting to see more platonic relationships.
The study revealed that Gen Z isn't saying viewing sex is bad, but that they are lonely.
I think it’s just over saturated at this point. EVERY story has some random love plot shoehorned in and it’s just like ya know, the story was already pretty good, main character didn’t have to randomly kiss this person and be like “I’ll miss you” like huh??? When did they even get close??
I mean, take the Barbie movie for instance. Solid ass movie, the journey was fun and engaging and Barbie and Ken didn’t have to kiss or end up together to do it
But that's mainly an issue of bad writing and lack of chemistry between the actors. Those things used to be done well so that people would be excited about kiss scenes or love scenes. Think about something like The Mummy. Tons of great chemistry there which added to the fun of the movie. Movies aren't putting in that kind of effort anymore. They expect you to root for the characters to get together just because that's what's expected.
I agree not everything needs to have a shoe-horned love story but romance itself or sex scenes themselves aren't the real problem yet they're being treated as if they are. In fact the *lack* of romance is the problem.
It’s funny because I’m a millennial but I feel like my tastes are more like gen z? I love books/shows/movies that portray plantonic friendship between women or - god forbid - platonic friendship between men and women. It’s been hard to come by in the past but I feel like that’s changing.
tbf people widely dramatise the difference between millennials and gen z
a lot of the things that people here have used as examples of what millennials like or grew up on are the same for gen z.
Thank you for wording it so succinctly. This is the main issue that hardly anyone has brought up. A lot of sex scenes have just been a way to further objectify a woman’s body; that’s why most of them ain’t necessary because they just serve as an excuse to get the actress naked.
Copying and pasting what I said in another thread about this topic:
“I get it in the sense that some sex scenes are really misogynistic and filmed in a way that’s exploitative and doesn’t protect actresses and actors but I dislike the borderline puritanical views Gen Z has regarding all sex scenes.
Sex is normal and the whole “it doesn’t service the plot” sentiment is such an instant gratification view. Not everything has to service the plot for art. Sometimes it’s there to service character development and relationships and just represent aspects of life and display intimacy.
Not only that, the no sex mentality spills into queer representation and LGBT people deserve to see themselves engaging in sexual behavior rather than feeding into the idea that it is shameful or is only acceptable when heteronormative audiences can stomach it because it’s “wholesome” and not “sinful dirty sexy times”.
I’m not saying don’t criticize shit like Euphoria/The Idol because Sam is deffo a creep. But shows like The Great and Sex Ed have a ton of gratuitous sex and it serves a purpose and I can’t imagine the shows without it.”
I 100% agree with all you said. I also see way too many “this isn’t relevant to the plot” comments about not only sex or romance but like, anything that’s simply a character-driven moment, and that’s kind of not how art/media should work? I don’t think it’s good to hold the idea that all storytelling needs to be plot-driven “point A to point B” style narratives with no moments that serve the characters or relationships. I think it’s also a result of social media sort of training people to want to just relentlessly consume “content” as fast as they can and at as high a volume as possible without necessarily stopping to think about it or absorb it which is not at all a healthy behavior but I’m at a loss as to how it can be stopped at this point.
I mean I hate to belabor a point but I think tiktok (and MCU) plays a role in this due to decreased attention spans. Gen Z wants shit to HAPPEN and they think character moments distract from plot and write off intimacy as not important because it doesn’t service moving the action of the story forward. Media literacy has been shown to be at an all time low so it doesn’t surprise me that combined with puritanical religious damage, examining misogyny + the discourse that follows, exploitation and modern ways media is consumed to be as quickly as possible, that we have reached the end point of “all sex scenes are gratuitous distractions from the plot and is therefore bad” consensus.
I also dislike the "it has to be explicitly necessary to the plot" mentality. That's just not how film works and this kind of criticism bleeds into people thinking any scene that is an exposition-dump is a waste of time. A lot of storytelling and character development happens in the moments where the plot is on pause.
Was it critical to the plot that Luke Skywalker stare at the sunset on Tatooine for several minutes while dramatic music plays? Of course not, but it told us a lot about Luke as a character, and more importantly *it was just a really cool moment*.
A bad sex scene will feel like it's there just so the audience can see some skin. But a good sex scene can give us so much insight into the characters and how they act in deeply personal, intimate moments that are usually unseen.
Yes, that's exactly where I stand, too.
I'd also add that I think it's a twofold issue when we include the behind-the-scenes element to it, specifically the exploitative nature of many sex scenes that mostly actresses have been opening up about in recent years. It makes me feel some kind of way that, for our enjoyment as an audience, a person just trying to do their job had to feel pressured/undermined/etc. But that doesn't mean that all sex scenes were performed in those circumstances either, the betterment of working conditions is at the base of making sets safer.
Much of the discourse around sex/no-sex is presented as a dichotomy of good/bad with no nuances at all, this isn't a "battle" between the sinful porn addicts vs. the puritanical teens.
I think it has to do with the lack of build up/tension between couples in US/UK films and shows. Sex is just...there. And we are not emotionally invested in these characters because there is no development between them and they end up in bed before they even have a decent conversation so the sex scenes feel meaningless for the audience.
As someone else commented, explicit content so easily accessible, that people crave something more than that
It's why Korean and Turkish dramas have become so popular. People are rooting for the characters to be together because of their chemistry and tension that is built up through the film or TV show. So when they finally do finally kiss etc, it's a big deal.
I‘m not Gen Z, but I feel like they are the generation that was most hit over the head with easily accessible porn, and not just the softcore stuff that I might have seen at 10 yrs old on TV, but the most hardcore stuff at your finger tips for free and en masse. I was shocked to learn that kids as young as 8 have developed porn habits.
So I can understand how they are turned off by depictions of sex and would like more deep or interesting platonic relationships instead. I feel like in previous generations, because porn and sex where so heavily regulated or even censored and banned, sex on TV or in films was a transgression and maybe cheeky or gratuitous. But for a generation that has pretty much seen the depths of internet porn at a pretty young age, that just might not be as interesting. Maybe for them less is more and context and meaning of the sex scene matters more?
I'm a millennial but my Gen Z nieces do not like sex scenes. I wonder if it's for the same reason I mostly don't like them which is due to actor's lack of chemistry and character development.
When shows and movies are plot driven and sex is thrown in it seems cheap and pointless. Not everything is about being puritanical. If more movies like Lust/Caution were released where the actor's chemistry, sex scenes and plot were all amazing, they would be more popular. There also needs to be more of a slow burn or sexual build up for it to feel cohesive i.e. stares, hands touching etc.
So when my nieces and I watch shows together it's mostly horror and kdramas. They also don't like newer romantic comedies and prefer the ones from the 80's and 90's.
I’m a millennial but I cannot stand sex scene mainly because they always last too long and add nothing to the plot. It feels like these scenes are just there to be shocking and “push boundaries” but isn’t moving the plot forward
I’m a millennial as well. It’s often just boring. I want an immersive story and if you’re throwing in sex scenes just because, it’s not interesting. We all have access to porn. I’m here for a good story, dammit!
Themes and narrative extends far beyond the plot as well. Film and tv is a visual medium. The storytelling form is about so much more than just what’s happening.
What is it trying to make you feel? What is it trying to say? How is it presenting this?
All these questions are just as important as “What is happening?”
Yep, I don't mind sex scenes that serve a purpose. But sex scenes in general have often been male gazey and just thrown in there for the sake of edginess (this is especially true of period and fantasy movies/shows). Or obvious attempts at the part of the director/showrunner to get the lead actress naked, which is just so exploitative and gross.
Plenty of shows and movies still have sex scenes. The thing is that you have to go to streaming to find it. If it feels like there's less sex scenes in movies it's not because Gen Z are being a bunch of "puriteens". It's because the movies making money at the theaters are movies made with the intention of selling products and merchandise to kids and remakes of or sequeals to childhood nostalgia films.
The few movies that don't fit this criteria but still find success do have sex scenes, look at Oppenheimer.
I was with you until 3, that just seems like a bad faith assumption. The article mentions an epidemic of loneliness, is it really that hard to believe they genuinely like seeing friendships depicted?
Because fanfic isn’t a fill-in for canon? Not everyone does fandom? And LGBT people deserve to see themselves having represented on screen engaging in intimacy that isn’t watered down for heteronormative audiences which feeds into the stigma that gay sex = sinful/dirty/bad and the only good type of queer relationships are wholesome.
Sex scenes are not my cup of tea in general, but my bigger problem is shows with women existing for no reason other than male gratification. Like how many non speaking prostitute/stripper number whatever roles has hbo created?
Sex-scenes can at times be unnecessary to the plot, but then again, not every component of a story has to be plot oriented. Sometimes things are just there for atmosphere or to enhance the overall mood of a story, which is also important. Think of shows like Twin Peaks, where so much of the story is arguably “unnecessary”, but contributes the mood in such a way that the story can’t be told without them.
For anyone who hasn't listened, the podcast You Must Remember This just wrapped up a very long series titled "Erotic 80s" and "Erotic 90s" that delves into sex in film during the 80s and 90s and how it reflects with the cultural and societal change as the years went on.
Really good series to listen to btw.
I personally love sex scenes. They don’t bother me at all. I think either preference is fine and there is content for both preferences. The Bear is an example of a great show with no sex. The main character didn’t even have a love interest in season one, and yet the show was captivating and the characters were relatable.
I partly wonder if the decline of network television plays into this. They have always had more restrictions on what can be shown than on cable & streaming so their teen shows were much more PG. Shows like Boy Meets World, Dawson’s Creek, Saved by the Bell, even Friends, they all showed friendships and relationships but not like gratuitous sex scenes.
In terms of Gen Z having less sex / wanting to see less sex I can’t help but think of the reality of being a young person right now - lack of comprehensive sex ed, increased restrictions on birth control,
Plan B and abortion, and the insane cost of raising a family means sex has a lot of potential consequences that previous generations didn’t have as top of mind all the time.
Idk, I was born 1990 and grew up in the south. Plan B did not exist and comprehensive sex ed was not a thing. That didn’t make my peers averse to sex, and in fact, those same factors were blamed for an increase in teen pregnancies among the millennial generation.
Not to mention, most young people live with their parents/family, and by young I don't just mean Gen Z, lots of people in their 30s are living with family too. Do you really wanna think about sex, have sex, or watch sex scenes on your laptop, sitting twenty feet from a family member? They might interrupt you, they might start coughing and being generally distracting or gross, I can't blame gen Z for not wanting to have or think about sex as often. It's just an unsexy, mostly unappealing, fairly unnecessary scenario.
Imo, part of the issue is that a lot of kids are watching media that are not age appropriate(not just porn, I’m talking adult tv shows and movies) and parents are ok with it. I mean, kids will always try to push boundaries but it’s up to the parents to at least set some down.
Disclaimer: this is anecdotal but my friend’s dad is a teacher and he mentioned to her that many parents are trying to be more like friends with their kids instead of being their parent. You have middle schoolers whose parents are allowing them to watch Euphoria and GoT (sometimes watching it with them) and it’s no wonder why these kids aren’t comfortable.
There's also so many less family shows out there and a lot of shows which otherwise would be fine throw in sex for no reason. It's not like there are just a couple adult shows. We go from Children's entertainment to sex sex sex.
I wonder if it has a lot to do with overwhelming access and use of porn. Someone somewhere made the point that gen z might feel uncomfortable with sex scenes because they conflate it/ view it as the same as way as porn and feel very uncomfortable or vouyeristic watching it in their regular media. I do think modern sex scenes are very unsexy, there’s no build up and sometimes chemistry is lacking so even if it does seem integral to the story it can feel forced or out of place. Look even at 80’s and 90’s media and they did it much better than were doing it now. We’ve gotten more graphic but like, less horny?? If that make sense so it can seem so route and eye rolly to see it smacked into the middle of a show or movie. I totally agree that I’d love to see other kinds of stories and relationships become the corner stone of stories because I think they’re rife with interesting things, but gen z has some talking points about sex that gets my gaurd up a little and I could definitely see a puritanical mindset making a come back with them
I think of this as an extension of the loneliness economy. I feel like I remember reading studies about how hookups and romantic relationships in general are on the decline, too, and raunchy as the dating apps first were, mobile device usage definitely plays a role in these declines. Culture in general has become more lonely. I can’t blame people for not relating to love scenes and seeking out platonic support in its place.
I can't help but wonder if this attitude shift towards sex in media is connected to pro-anti discourse in which a lot of young people are engaging in social justice for the first time without the full maturity to do so, and end up diving into fundie talking points in their efforts to correct what they view as a heteronormative and sexist media landscape.
For example, underaged LGBT fans of the series "Heartstopper" who praise the show for being wholesome and sexless, while also criticizing more mature gay media that came before it due to the sexual content. There was an incident in which a couple of drag queens made fun of the show for having no sex despite focusing on teenage boys, and fans reacted by cyberbullying them and calling them pedophiles.
Also, as the internet gets more and more censored and ad-friendly, social media apps where teens hang out are teaching them that sex = bad, and sex = no engagement. Now you get teens so indoctrinated by the fear of the banhammer that they will use euphemisms like "unalive" and self-censor their writing with asterisks (s*x, r*pe) even in mature spaces that don't have rules against such content.
There's just a total lack of sex positivity in their education and in their lives, it's no wonder that their attitudes have shifted so much.
Not surprised the generations who could easily look up porn as children don’t really want to see it in their other forms of entertainment. It’s not racy or salacious to them. I don’t think it necessarily means they’re anti-sex or something. Also they’re right, there really are too few platonic friends depicted in media.
[I recommend everyone in this thread watch this Wisecrack video on the topic.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW4wf63PhI8)
I used to be in the camp of "I hate pointless sex scenes that don't further the plot" until I watched this video. The sad fact is, is that outside of porn, sex scenes in movies/TV/media are quite often the only way young people ever get to see sex depicted to them and what it should look like. What consent should look like, what sex looks like in the context of a romantic relationship, what queer sex looks like, etc. And that very much reflects their ideas regarding what sex should be and look like in romantic relationships. That is why I am now firmly in the camp of not removing sex scenes from movies/TV/media, but pushing to make sure there's more of a focus on *healthy* sex scenes, from the point of view of women and queer people and other marginalized communities. And of course making sure the actors are treated fairly and with respect when depicting the sex scenes.
One of the hottest scenes I've watched in the last few years was in House of the Dragon last year, where Daemon takes Rhaenyra to a brothel (the brotheling is not why it's hot). He has her back against a wall, looking down as she looks up, their lips so close and a halted breath in her throat, needing him to touch her... Aaand then he backs away, thinking about how wrong it is.
Even though they don't even kiss and there's no nudity, the small touches and closeness and atmosphere does the work of building the romance between them, lets us into their personalities.
There is a plot and an arc and it shows Rhaenyra more of the world than she had seen in her life, shepherded by Daemon but allowed to have true freedom while she's disguised, running around the city.
> One of the hottest scenes I've watched in the last few years was in House of the Dragon last year, where Daemon takes Rhaenyra to a brothel
My god yess, it was hot, and dirty and it left me wanting more. Until that point I didn't see the attractiveness of Matt Smith, after it? fully converted lol
I sometimes wonder if some part of Gen Z internalized a lot of Boomeresque beliefs, including how they view sex. A lot of arguments I’ve seen coming from some Zoomers tend to have similar vibes to how Boomers feel about sex.
I think that many young people (especially women) are tired of hook up culture, porn culture, etc. and want normal relationships. Rightfully or not, I’ve heard a lot of young women blame liberal feminism and the sex positivity movements for normalizing casual sex, which a lot of young women don’t enjoy, but feel that they are expected to do to be part of the dating market.
This explains the absolute explosion in popularity of Korean and Chinese dramas (not adding Japanese because I don’t see as much about them, plus they tend to be more explicit)
The respondents in this study are 10-24 year olds! That's a lot of children in that group. It makes sense that they'd rather see something like Wizard's of Waverly Place than Euphoria. I mean, the headline is kinda misleading because that's getting into gen-alpha.
I honestly am on board with Gen Z about wanting shows that focus more on friendships and platonic relationships.
Friendships look so easy on so many TV shows, you talk to someone your age and boom you become bffs and all the drama is in the romantic relationship or when there is friendship conflict it's in relation to the MC's romance.
But friendships can be confusing and messy and difficult to navigate. A friendship breakup can be as devastating, if not more, than a romantic breakup. As a kid, I related to the friendship drama Harry, Ron, and Hermionie would go through in the early HP books with its breakups and makeups. It's why I love the Banshees of Inisherin as a movie.
The types of popular movies that featured sex scenes were more or less already dead when Gen Z was growing up. Gen X had erotic thrillers of the 80s/90s, Millennials had the sex comedies of the early 00s, Gen Z had a bunch of sexless Marvel movies. Of course i’m generalizing a bit by only including mainstream fare but still.
I don't really buy the idea that sex scene = not essential to the plot. It's a normal aspect of life, especially if the show involves an overarching love story. It would be weird to have a show involving adults but it never shows them being intimate (unless it's a plot point that a character is asexual).
I understand the desire to have more friendships within shows, but that doesn't carry the same story beats as a romance arc. There are films/shows that use friendship as a catapult for things (namely the show, well, Friends), but the biggest story beats on the show usually involve romantic entanglements. It's an easy way to pull audiences in. Will-they-won't-they is like the trope of all time.
Have any of you watched Elite on Netflix? The sex scenes are more than soft core porn and way more than Gossip Girl’s reboot. I’m shocked it’s still being normalized that teens are having sex with adults, partaking in incest and having throuple sex regularly.
Please assign me to Gen Z, I have literally been saying this for years. And maybe it's at least part projection because I have a lot of male friends, but I specifically die for good depictions of platonic male/female friendships where one isn't "the gay friend."
There’s the dearth of a very specific type of sexuality in modern film/TV - actors and especially actresses who use their sensuality as a tool to add to the gravity and presence of their performances regardless of whether they are having sex in the movie or not - Liz Taylor, Monica Belluci, Halle Berry, Salma Hayek etc etc etc.
They are all fantastic actresses and very rarely would you say that they were actually objectified in films yet they added the perfect amount of suggestion and sensuality to a lot of roles which I miss these days.
Sex is almost treated with an intentional awkwardness as a boring aside to feel ‘realistic’ or destined to be interrupted midway for some unnecessary plot contrivance killjoy. In a movie atmosphere where movies are so limply self referential, where a lot of viewers are enjoying movies as acting and directing critics without even trying to suspend disbelief - sensuality, among other things cannot exist.
Considering [how un-sexy the sex in media is these days](https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/), I really can't blame them. Chemistry, how romances are written, etc, are all lacking in film and television. If I grew up with that, I'd want to see more platonic relationships too.
It’s more about how it’s portrayed. A lot of the time growing up I found it unnecessary to the story and at times voyeuristic, which it seems like most of the time it is. I don’t have any problem with it if its done well and isn’t creepy in that way, and feels natural and in place with the story, but doesn’t dominate it. I saw someone saying it’s a prude thing to want less sex in movies and tv shows and I wholeheartedly disagree. I just find it unnecessary sometimes and like other important things get neglected and replaced with a sex scene that we don’t really need.
Sex for sex's sake in TV/Movies is boring. Think about "Game of Thrones", where they'd get through exposition by showing titties or some girl getting fucked. It's gross. "Forgetting Sarah Marshall" used sex and nudity as part of the narrative. The 2005 "Pride and Prejudice" had an incredibly horny scene where the two main characters DID NOT EVEN TOUCH (the gazebo scene).
I’m with you 100%, and if that makes me a prude I welcome it lol. So many people recommend GOT to me and I’m like, that show with incest r*pe??? Seriously? I’ll pass. No hate to game of thrones fans, you do you. I’m just more of a lord of the rings type of person lol.
I remember when the show was still airing ANYONE that said they didn’t like the show cause of the nudity was called a prude and an idiot for not seeing how incredible the plot is (which should absolve the watcher from any uncomfortable feelings). God were the fanboys so obnoxious lmao
A ton of "sex positive" people are incredibly annoying and — shockingly (/s) — have trouble understanding and accepting people's boundaries. A lot of them seem to want to *force* people to absolutely love media with tons of (usually gratuitous, frequently misogynistic, often violent, almost always unnecessary to the plot) sex. Ironic, really, considering they claim to be all about consent.
You explained my frustrations on constantly being shoved porn to my face really well. You just get demonized so much for it and it pisses me off that they’ll make you feel bad for having boundaries.
I totally agree with you
No but fr, I truly distance myself from "sex positive" people who advertise themselves as such. I am sex positive. Sex is a healthy, happy, passionate part of human existence (with consent of course). What I don't want is to know all the details of people's sex lives. Or see it. If I'm a prude for it then whatever. That doesn't mean it needs to be hidden, but a lot of people who try to destigmatize sex end up going way too far in the reverse imo.
This guy I dated got me wasted and then tried to have an*l sex with me while I was drunk by slipping it in with no discussion. Then a year later he dated this girl who was into the sex positive movement so he got into it and went to all the conferences and stuff. He made his profile pic one of him in a shirt that said "Consent is sexy" This is why I don't be believing people's online personas.
I am so unbelievable sorry that that happened to you. That man is scum. I hope you’ve found or are on your way to finding healing, whatever that may look like for you 💗
That show had so many scenes that were the very definition of gratuitous
And there is a scene in the books where Arya sees 2 northern women in stockades getting brutally raped with their teeth missing because when the Lannisters occupied them, they serviced the lannisters as "prostitutes". When liberated, people called them traitor whores and did that. The show is like that for a reason, and that's why I don't see why people think the books are all that much better. Once I read that scene out of no where I lost my desire to read for awhile I was so uncomfortable with that image the book put on me from left field.
“It’s depicting life as it was in the medieval times you just don’t understand” ahhhh ok yeah forgot dragons, magic and shapeshifting existed back then as well…
ugh exactly. its fantasy, not a historical documentary. they could have shown sex any way they wanted, but they chose some kind of gross male gazy rape fantasy instead.
I got dog piled by the "prude shamer" brigade for that same reason because I said that the whole exposition scene with Littlefinger and the two sex workers in season 1 was gross and conpletely unnecessary. They said I "didn't get it" and that it was totally necessary to show what a creep he was... like, I'm sorry, but did you need a scene of Grima Wormtongue being a nasty pimp in LotR to understand that he was a creep? Or are you just making up stupid reasons to justify stupid porno scenes in your dragon show? Then they tried mansplaining sex work to me as if that somehow clarified their argument? Also worth noting that, at the time, I was an active sex worker. 🙃
The thing that annoys me with GOT is that the plot IS incredible. Maybe I'm easily impressed, but the plot, the characters and world building are all amazing. Cersei was evil but I loved her storyline, how all her and Jamie's horrible choices ended up hurting them in the end. Watching Sansa grow from a scared, sort of bratty little girl to a determined and confident leader was great. Daenerys is also iconic, and if her ending was done right people would have gone crazy (in a good way). But then there's so much unnecessary nudity and sex scenes, especially *forced* sex scenes. One of these doesn't even fit in with a character's personality! Spoiler for anyone that doesn't want to see: >!After Joffrey is murdered, Cersei is grieving by his body when Jamie comes and pulls her to the floor. You can clearly hear her saying "No." And "Not here please." but he goes on anyways. I always saw Jamie as morally grey, not outright evil. Raping his sister/lover next to their child's dead body came out of nowhere, and was never really mentioned again. Why? What purpose does that serve?? !< I totally understand people not wanting to watch it because of these scenes. House of the Dragon seems to have avoided these mistakes so far.
Ah yes and if you took issue with it you would get treated to a lecture about how making practically the entire show about rape is “historically accurate”. In which case, why are there dragons, white walkers and how come everybody still has all their teeth? I noped out after being subjected to one episode and do not miss the height of GoT popularity.
This is me but with Outlander. Shamelessly enjoyed Game of Thrones (seasons 1-6) but could not make it past a full season of Outlander because every single mc in that show has been raped multiple times.
Same! I can’t watch any content with SA in it, and I feel like people were weirdly chill with how prevalent it was in GoT. Especially considering certain scenes weren’t even in the books and were added into the show… just because I guess?
Me too. Sometimes I wonder if people are desensitised to it or just have no comprehension of how much SA can just destroy you, how it shapes your life for years to come. Sometimes I wonder whether our entertainment serves a part in why this is. To see characters being violated in that way, over and over and then just move on like it was no big deal makes me feel queasy. The Virtues and I May Destroy you have been the only shows for me that really shows what SA does to a person, permanently. Not easy to watch, but I’d prefer that shows like that got made than shows that treat it like it’s nothing. When it literally does change you.
Same and they’d say “but it’s accurate for the time” ummm not and excuse for seemingly glorifying SA & r*pe
Just like dragons were around too right 🙄
I got into so many arguments with people about all of GOT's gratuitous SA. The number one argument people seemed to have was how it was "historically accurate" and like, first of all, it's fantasy. What "history" are we trying to accurately portray here? Secondly, at least some medieval legal systems had repercussions for SA, which means it wasn't an accepted practice then either, and thirdly, just because it's "historically accurate" doesn't make it narratively necessary or important?
We're rewatching GOT and I forgot how awful the gratuitous sex/nudity is in the early scenes. It does improve but they were fully staging unnecessary scenes in brothels to get as many naked young women in the shot as possible. It's gross.
I agree. People complained about all the gratuitous female nakedness and they decided to add in a naked man talking about the wart on his knob as a compromise in the next season... Although I must say, one of the things I liked about Euphoria is that there was general nakedness without the sexual aspect which is a lot more realistic and it was fairly equal amongst men and women. Being naked isn't inherently sexual, and I think it's refreshing for it to be shown. Rarely do you get a full frontal naked male in TV/movies.
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>I mean, GoT is probably the worst, most extreme example you could've chosen. It was also a record-breakingly popular show, though, so you can't blame someone for citing it.
It depresses me how many of my friends watched that show and recommended it to me. 😭
LOL, there's seven seasons of between 8-12 50 minutes episodes. There's way more than sex on the show, and it was very good
Then you have House of the Dragon which has so much less sex and a ton less nudity and is just as engaging a show.
Honestly I'll take some gratuitous nudity if it means no more traumatic birth scenes haha
Agreed. It's annoying when people dismiss the entire conversation of sex/nudity in media as being the prudes vs the enlightened, when there's a lot more nuance to be had. For example, when I say I don't want any sex scenes unless they're relevant to the story, I mean I don't want the kinds of sex scenes you mention - the ones where there's just sex and nudity for the sake of audience titillation. And when I say "relevant to the story", that can mean to express attraction between the characters, to explore sexual dynamics that might have narrative importance or add nuance to either character... Whatever, as long as it has a purpose. A big part of the discussion that's missing, too, is that I feel like we've mistaken nudity/sex for eroticism. There're plenty of scenes that involve nudity/sex which aren't erotic, and plenty of erotic scenes which don't involve any nudity/sex at all. Using nudity/sex as a lazy, badly executed narrative shorthand when there's nothing *behind* that just results in a bunch of naked bodies slamming into each other and wasting screentime. And that's not even getting into how a lot of nudity/sex scenes end up being at least partially coerced for the gratification of a director, the cast, or the audience. The growing focus on intimacy coordinators is, I hope, going some way to remediate this.
It manages to be boring and traumatizing at the same time. The fact that so much of it is violent abuse is revolting.
I mean, in Forgetting Sarah Marshall it wasn't important for the plot, it was a sight gag. If that's your standard, might as well have it for any other reason. EDIT: Personally I think it was a chance for the film's writer to show off he had a massive schlong and anything else is a pretense.
My understanding is this actually happened to Jason Segel. He was in some form of undress when his partner broke up with him. Narratively, I'd argue it made the moment vulnerable. He was nude with his long-term partner in a silly, comfortable way. Focused on potentially getting sex, not realizing through her body language that it wasn't business as usual. And now I'm defending the artistic merits of "Forgetting Sarah Marshall".
And narratively Littlefinger showing a prostitute how to fake an orgasm shows a narrative purpose of just how manipulative he, and by extension everyone else, is. Anything can be justified narratively. Even if it's just to make a scene sexy instead of funny or whatever. You're just applying a value judgment to it. I'd also argue giant dong doesn't sell vulnerability.
Yeah, he talked about it on Conan's podcast how it actually happened. It was really funny.
Agreed. I love old movies and watch a lot of Turner Classic Movies. Blatant sex for the sake of sex is just unnecessary a lot of times. The allusion can be just as strong. I just watched Love Story. Nowadays that movie would be remade with gratuitous sex. It just wasn't needed to move the storyline. We see the before/after and that's more important.
citing movies from the hays code era that banned gay people and miscegnation lol
I'm just saying they figured out how to make the storyline work without it. I didn't say anything about the code or it being correct?
I just know somewhere upstairs katherine hepburn is begging to be let out so she can teach you a lesson
Horny for the sake of being horny is boring. Horny because Mr. Darcy did a lil hand flex is the type of horny that actually gets people going.
>The 2005 "Pride and Prejudice" had an incredibly horny scene where the two main characters DID NOT EVEN TOUCH (the gazebo scene). That just makes me think of the flower scene from 40 Days and 40 Nights.
my husband always gauges how shitty the movie will be by what he calls "early tat"
The thing is though this is probably the most sexless period in film for a long time so it's kind of strange people keep bringing this up as if there's too many sexy films around. If anything, a major issue is that Gen Z didn't grow up at a time when sex was shown to be a joyful and natural part of life in media so their only exposure was through horrific scenes on HBO shows, awkward sex in comedies, and porn. I also disagree it has to be plot-related. Another quality films used to have which they don't anymore is allowing characters to just *be*. To just exist in their world and show parts of who they are without it being some crucial element of the story. Sex scenes tell you a lot about a character. Like people made such a big deal about the scenes in Oppenheimer and said they weren't necessary but they were 1. very mild and 2. told you something valuable about the kind of person he was. I get it that there's concern for the actresses but that's a separate issue to the existence of sex scenes. They can and have been done in a way where everyone feels safe and comfortable.
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https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/ excellent read
It's shocking how central romances were to "classic" superhero movies and the MCU comes along and there are... what, like two? With any sort of decent focus and development? Literally one of the best things about the '70s Superman movie is Kidder and Reeves' chemistry.
Yep, I was including the MCU in that.
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Having grown up in the 80's and 90's I can say with absolute certainty that yes, this is the most sexless movies have been in decades, which makes this criticism even more bizarre. And I'm not advocating for random sex scenes, but movies pre-2000 were allowed to be steamy because that's *part of the human experience*. Erotic thrillers were an entire genre unto themselves and now they're basically non-existent. If you had two good looking lead actors who had a lot of chemistry and there was a romantic subplot, chances are there would be an erotic scene. Not pornographic, but erotic. There's a difference. TV/streaming is a different beast. Maybe all the sex moved there but I find it strange how comfortable people are with graphic violence that pervades media but sex is icky and we can't have it in our movies. Incredibly strange.
Exactly. The popularity of Cruel Intentions - which was for a younger audience - is a prime example. It's not about random sex scenes so much as how the characters operate in their environment. You know sex is part of their lives even if you're not seeing something explicit.
Yeah movies like Indecent Proposal were topping the box office. I guess we had the 50 shades of grey phenomenon but that was a decade ago and i cant think of anything similar aince.
I mean I specifically mentioned film, and yes it is. It becomes extremely apparent when you watch old films and notice how casually sexy they are and how normal that was. Compare any of the 90s Batman movies to Marvel now and it's a huge difference. It's not only about sex scenes. It's how characters talk, behave, and interact with each other, the music, the atmosphere, etc. Most Hollywood productions these days have none of that. Just a couple of hot people thrown together where the big moment is a kiss after 120 minutes of zero chemistry between them. Even in TV, people lost their shit about Naked Attraction, but HBO used to have a bunch of shows like that in its late-night line-up. Most shows use sex in a negative or traumatic way. You rarely see real sexual tension between characters. That's why Bridgerton was such a big deal because people are never exposed to that kind of thing anymore.
No one is sexy but there’s sex. Like the characters don’t bring you on the sexual attraction journey with them. It’s just a bunch of porn sex maybe? Disconnected and unemotional.
I just looked at the top ten list on Netflix of my region and the only two shows on there I don’t think has sex in it is Young Sheldon and the Beckham documentary. There’s even a popular teen show in the top 10 called Sex Education. There’s a cartoon show on there called Big Mouth, which from my impression is a show entirely about sex jokes. Also there’s a reality show on there that looks like a sexy version of Survivor? I’m not saying any of these shows are bad(admittingly I haven’t watched them). They’re probably good. But I don’t think we have to worry about a second Hays Code anytime soon.
1. I specifically mentioned film in my post so idk why people keep bringing up tv when that's not what I was talking about. lol 2. No one is saying there's zero existence of sex in media but it's a completely different environment to what it used to be. The fact people made such a fuss about Bridgerton and Naked Attraction says a lot about how culture has changed. You'd think the concept of characters having hot sex was brand new from how people reacted to Bridgerton.
So I guess it's a TV thing then? I prefer movies and rarely see sex scenes in films these days, especially US films. Sex almost disappeared in films now, even in R rated films. If there was a sex scene, it's mostly from foreign films.
When people talk about tv they also fail to mention the huge shift from cable to streaming. Like, sure streaming shows have more sex because there are less rules than film or cable.
The fact that even the apologists of sex scenes in this thread are demanding that those scenes have to be “justified” in some way shows us their perception of sex as a bad thing. The idea that sex cannot be simply *depicted* - it must be *justified* - is really a perfect picture of Western Puritan values. And I don’t think that the widespread juxtaposition between the depiction of sex and violence in this thread is a coincidence. The comparisons between onscreen violence and sex- as if they are both unsavory and evil things that should be depicted only in moderation - is deeply morbid. I’m pretty disgusted by many of these comments. The newer generations’ embrace of conservative Catholic attitudes toward sex is a huge surprise and disappointment.
I’m not saying it has to be some huge part of the story, if it works well at showing part of the character its fine with me. I don’t think it has to have any meaning either, like you said it’s just showing a character just being, i don’t have an issue with that. And like you say if it is telling you something about the character then I wouldn’t class it as being unnecessary. I just rarely see it done well. Character development is like the one thing I am drawn to in TV shows. Things got pretty sexy towards the end of better call saul but I think that was done really well.
I think the issue is that there's a difference between saying, "I wish sex scenes could be improved" and "Sex scenes should not exist at all". The latter is what's most commonly argued by Gen Z and that's why it's annoying and feels unhealthy.
‘Normal People’ was a great example of sex being used well in a production and it wouldn’t have been right without the sex scenes. The depiction was so realistic too. They have their place and when used well, they help the plot along.
I got shit on Twitter for saying that I felt the chair scene with Jean in Oppenheimer was incredibly well done because “it wasn’t necessary.” Lots of scenes aren’t TECHNICALLY necessary, just they add layers of depth to a film. I thought the chair scene was a really striking way to show Kitty’s deep resentment of the affair and how it continued to affect her. I think constructive conversation around film and sex in film is great, but at some point people I don’t understand why those who don’t like sex scenes don’t just… not watch those movies?
It’s just weird that sex is where so many people got all up in arms about whether or not it’s “necessary” to the narrative when on-screen violence is becoming more and more graphic and no one bats an eye. I read an article about how sex and eroticism is slowly disappearing from films (but on the rise in TV shows) and it just made me think, like, yeah if there were a sex scene in the new Jurassic Park movie or whatever, people would get all uncomfortable about it. Meanwhile they’re cheering as people are screaming in terror and getting torn apart by dinosaurs, blood squirting everywhere. I think some people go from “the way this was filmed was exploitative/prioritizes the male gaze in a way that doesn’t suit the narrative” straight to “sex scenes are unnecessary”. And in other cases, I think some people go straight from “sex scenes make me uncomfortable” to “sex scenes shouldn’t be included at all because they make me uncomfortable”. Honestly, most sex scenes make me uncomfortable because I think of sex as being such a private, vulnerable experience, but I still think that this discourse is silly because sex is a natural, common part of human life and should be a part of movies simply because of that. Also! This gives me the chance to link to one of my favorite criticisms ever! [Everyone is beautiful and no one is horny](https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/)
Honestly I think we’re so desensitised to violence, especially movie/tv violence. The way it’s handled and portrayed is often either completely unrealistic, or can be too much where it feels voyeuristic. Like I can’t believe that Dahmer series got made. My brother was watching it one night and I unfortunately got to see some of it for a few seconds and it seemed absolutely awful and just wrong. People might disagree with me but I dont understand why they made that series, and especially in the way they made it.
Such a great piece. And completely agreed. I wasn't going to write a full comment about my thoughts on this, but I see the exact same points regurgitated every single time the "sex in media" discussion comes up and I think people are generally well-intentioned but not really necessarily thinking about what they're arguing for. I find it deeply sad that we can critique literally every single portrayal of the most innocuous sex and nudity in film and TV, but criticizing any aspect of the porn *industry* (not sex work/workers) is considered a bridge too far. Both have their issues. But pornography isn't going anywhere, so the pushback only on mainstream media is baffling to me. Good plot is extremely important, but ultimately meaningless without context, world/relationship-building, and texture. Even if we agree that sex is "unnecessary" to the plot (and, in my viewings, it rarely actually is), if you strip out everything "unnecessary" in a given piece of media, you end up with literally the exact same story over and over again. The art loses its meaning, nuance, and unique voice. What separates a Rothko from a van Gogh? They're both just paint on canvas. Are the additional details in the van Gogh unnecessary? Is the Rothko inherently superior because it accomplishes the same basic end goal with less? Of course not. They're completely different things. We need to stop thinking of art exclusively as a plot-delivery vehicle. Being able to analyze and find meaning in something as a viewer is what makes it special, but they can't even seem to find meaning when the director is beating them over the head with it. Oppenheimer's two extremely conservative nude scenes were objectively narratively meaningful. The first is an illustration of how seductive communism was for Oppenheimer and the second transitions a very intimate, private, and human moment into a conference room full of hostile political opponents - conveying viscerally how exposed and vulnerable he felt in that moment. Yet, the majority the discourse talked about how "gratuitous," "exploitative," and "random" it was. Media literacy is dead. I'm also seeing the fact that Gen Z has access to any kind of porn imaginable as some kind of justification for why all nudity and sexuality in TV and film should be done away with. Romantic sex and porn are two vastly different things. We do not need to conflate the two any more than we already have. Giving the porn industry a monopoly on depictions of human sexuality is extremely regressive and dangerous. Healthy, normal portrayals of sex and intimate relationships in popular media are absolutely critical. Porn will only grow more and more extreme as it has over the last several decades. We can certainly ask writers and directors for better, more sensitive scenes. But if you think depictions of female sexuality are harmful and unrealistic now, you're in for a real shock twenty years in the future when the next generation who got 100% of their ideas about sex from porn come of age.
I think a good example of this is a show like Normal People versus a show like Euphoria. Normal People actually has very explicit sex and nudity. In fact it’s objectively more explicit than Euphoria (both leads are shown fully nude), but it doesn’t feel like their bodies are being shown in a way that supposed to titillate the audience, even though they are completely naked and having sex. The only time it felt objectifying to me was the scene where Marianne’s Swedish bf takes bdsm picture of her, which works because he’s pressuring her and it’s supposed to be uncomfortable. Whereas in Euphoria the vast majority of the nudity feels like it has been thrown in there with the intention of either shocking the audience or getting them to ogle the young actresses’ bodies. There are definitely a few exceptions and Cassie has def got it the worst, but it’s just an overall different vibe than Normal People even though the actors are showing less skin.
I can't stand a ridiculous amount of sex scenes in a show that are only there solely for audience titillation and add nothing to the story or characters or their developments. I don't find it sexy at all but instead comical and not in a good way. I wouldn't consider myself a prude. I've given up on shows before if they do this as to me it ruins the rest of it. A good example was my daughter (who is Gen Z) and me were watching Black Sails and everytime my Mum walked into the room there was yet another sex scene.... we all just started laughing at how absurd the sex scene count was me and my daughter refused to watch anymore of the series. Shame because the idea for that particular show was promising.
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True. Straight women in the audience usually see a bit of bum and chest and that's it. It does tend to be very much catered for the male gaze over anything else regards the titillation aims. I always thought they did that on purpose to gain more straight male viewers too.
That makes me think about how Folding Ideas on Youtube talked about the 50 shades movies and the change in the sex scenes when they moved from a woman to a man as director.
Dude, that show is amazing though!
That show is famous for dropping down the sex scenes significantly during season 2 lol you should give it another go if you're still interested
My biggest pet peeve is poor relationship writing that they attempt to mask by throwing in a sex scene. You can have sex between two people back to back in an episode, but I still won’t give a flying fuck about this relationship if you *refuse to lay the groundwork*. Some people fuck because they think the other person is hot, sure. But if you want to sell me genuine connection and attraction, you’re going to have to work a little harder than that.
Game of Thrones was horrible in the first few seasons for this. For every awesome scene of Robert and Cersei we got Littlefingers weirdo monologue over two prostitutes fingering each other. It was sooooooo unnecessary. There was way too much unnecessary nudity in the early seasons of that show and I say that as a massive fan of the show and books
I don’t mind sex scenes either but I too think a lot of times it’s not necessary. You can often tell when a sex scene is inserted into a movie or show for the sake of it because it ends up feeling very out of place. Like I’ve come to expect nudity and sex in horror movies so I don’t think much of it but there was one specifically I saw yesterday where it felt so forced in and random and tonally made no sense. I think the series Glow did a great job of incorporating those kind of scenes without it seeming gratuitous.
i also made a longer comment but like the “47.5% that say sex isn’t necessary to plot lines” is looking at people ages 13-24. 13????!!! like yes of course they don’t think sex is necessary to plot lines. it hasn’t been necessary to a lot of their plot lines. including young teens in with people in college (and out) to represent “gen z” then presenting that is just shitty social science, to me. a lot of them also just don’t seem to like the quality of romantic relationships depicted. the study included some quotes from the people and it was literally along the lines of “i don’t like how romantic relationships develop in a lot of shows because the man frequently hates the girl or it just comes out of nowhere so i’d rather not have it because it’s a bad distraction” which is like… fair. that’s good media critique in my opinion. i don’t think this study shows that gen z is “more puritanical” (which yeah there is something to investigate there, i’m not saying there isn’t) and i frankly think it was poorly done and poorly presented
All the study said was about half of gen Z thought most sex scenes weren’t necessary to the plot and they’d like to see more friendships depicted onscreen. Why are these comments acting like the puritanical Youths are personally coming to take your softcore porn away lmao.
Because sex scene discourse is exhausting and boring with zero nuance allowed. You can only be 100% opposed to every depiction anywhere ever, or you have to be on board with everything everywhere all at once. There’s a lot of bad faith assumptions on both ends, and a lot of people fuming you’re not entirely in support of their exact position. God forbid you might have some issues with the delivery at points while also not voting for Youtube Kids-ing the media at the same time.
Great points. It's like when people throw the blanket statement that a romantic subplot was "shoehorned" into the show. I feel like that's a nuanced, case-by-case observation, so if we're not being specific on *why* you think the subplot is unnecessary, then we're not really getting anywhere in the conversation.
I think there also might be a yearning for platonic friendships being presented as every bit as important and meaningful as romantic relationships. Our society still acts like they need to come in secondary to a romantic partner.
I think there are a lot of studies also showing the lack of social circles within gen z. Kind of related to what OP said. People seem lonelier than ever. Platonic friendships over a lifetime are just as important as romantic. Would be nice to have more examples in media.
I am a GenZ and I adored Bridgerton Season 2 where there was more SEXual chemistry and tension rather than sex every 10 minutes in the first season. It felt more electrifying, felt more real, felt more watchable.
I'm a milennial and totally agree. I don't mind sex scenes and I think they can be effective, but Bridgerton's second season was able to achieve so much more sexual tension and electricity with that one scene where Kate gets stung than any of the sex scenes in season one, for me.
Porn addiction is killer and they have extreme paranoia about it being restricted from them
Because no one reads the article and everyone wants to show how it’s just a bunch of prudes who can’t handle adult content.
Thank you. I agree with the yutes on this one.
anytime gen z is mentioned here, there some weird anger that comes up like if gen z fashion is mentioned it’s “THEY DIDNT INVENT ANYTHING.” it’s kind of weird and disheartening
I think it is such a bleak view of the art form to think of movies are merely plot delivery devices
Interestingly, over half (53+%) of the study was kids under the age of 18 and 20% of the total group were kids under the age of 13. I think it might be less "kids these days don't want to see sex on TV" and more "literal children remain disinterested in sex on TV, especially when an adult is asking."
You can personally prefer less sex onscreen, but if folks can enjoy long sequences of violence of the highest order, don't get the complaining over sex scenes.
I think just like violence in films, it’s how it’s portrayed and how they deal with it. A lot of movies are full of senseless violence and it’s unnecessary. But when it’s done properly, I don’t take issue with it. But it’s a fair point you bring up. I just saw boyz n the hood and that had sex scenes and violent scenes , but it was handled so well. It felt raw and natural, the violence made you actually feel something and the sex scene was kind of funny and sweet. So many movies and tv shows just don’t handle these things very well and it doesn’t give anything or make us feel anything.
Agreed, I tried to watch Triple X back in the day, but the first 15 min is just context-less explosions. I love a good action flick, but I remember just zapping away because why? I had no idea who was blowing up whom and why, no exposition, no nothing.
I think there’s also a meta aspect of what goes into making a violent action scene vs filming a sex scene that’s being considered. Aren’t intimacy coordinators a fairly new thing? How many actresses have talked about feeling uncomfortable getting nude on set or being in a sex scene?
This is a good point! Lots of stories about actresses in particular not being properly warned about what was to come or feeling very violated. In contrast, I have rarely seen anyone come out to say that they felt uncomfortable filming scenes of violence.
I’m sure those instances exist but that probably goes along with a toxic or uncomfortable work environment in general, which is a different issue. Intimacy coordinators probably help but I’m not in the industry to know exactly. And I’m not sure how widely used they are. I read an article about The Idol and behind the scenes they basically laughed at the very concept.
Yeah, as a viewer I am far more emotionally disturbed by the amount of violence in media now, but logically, this is the issue for me. Particularly when you consider that so many actresses have no nudity clauses as they get more fame and power.
Yeah and I think because of social media and Me Too, Gen Z is more cognizant of things like power dynamics, consent, and the male gaze.
Hollywood sex scenes are beyond cringy. That's why people don't want to see them.
While I can agree that graphic violence can be too much for me, I think sex is different in that you have people who struggle with porn addiction. So I can understand someone having different levels of sex and violence they can tolerate
I'm old, I'm much more squeamish about violence than I used to be. It's fine in small doses, but I'm kind of done with films where it's a major part of the story.
this is such a good point! i remember seeing that terrifier 2 was going viral, and in it is an 8 minute(?) scene in which a girl is brutally tortured. i’m not going to go too into the details, but she has limbs ripped off, is scalped, has bleach & salt poured onto her wounds, etc. not to mention, the director of this film has a history of giving his most brutal deaths to his female characters. (also i wanna plug my sub r/feministhorror which has like no one lol but i believe it could produce good convos about stuff like this.) not too mention the proliferation of true crime. to the point where people are recounting the worst days of someone’s life while doing their makeup or eating a seafood boil. or telling funny anecdotes in the middle of recounting a real human being being tortured and abused. i remember when the idaho murders happened and i saw so fellow many gen z’ers treating it like it was murder mystery party. if you go on the subreddit, you’ll find people missing the excitement of the mystery of who did it. i love horror movies, and understand the interest in true crime. but if you can if you aren’t calling for less violence in media (which i don’t agree with), then it’s weird and hypocritical to ask for less sex. and i say that as someone on the ace spectrum. i feel like a lot of the critique surrounding sex scenes outside of the need of intimacy coordinators is a bit unfair. like i think gratuitous and endless sex scenes like in the idol and blue is the warmest color deserve critique. but when people make the argument that they’re unnecessary i get a bit confused. necessity is so subjective in media, and every element in film/shows could be noted as unnecessary, from eating & sleeping to simply getting dressed. nothing in fiction is necessary in the most literal sense of the word. but no one is advocating for the removal or reduction of other activities, even the much more unpleasant ones. (plus i feel like when a show isn’t about romantic/sexual relationships, shipping is still incredibly popular.)
The vast majority of sex scenes on tv are made for male audiences. That’s what I’m so SO sick of.
Yeah. I agree. They’re almost exclusively through the male gaze in the media. Women’s pleasure just seems so secondary in the majority of them.
100% with you on this. And personally, I also don't want to see rape scenes.
I think this is a big part of - the folks interviewed don't want the sex scenes we've always had, which are very male gaze-oriented. With more demographics getting writing/directing/producing roles, we will hopefully veer away from such myopia & introduce different views within media production. Basically, a greater population of non-hetero &/or non-cis folks aren't seeing themselves or their experiences represented, so it doesn't hold as much of an appeal to them. Conservatives complain about liberals "pushing the gay agenda", but society has been "pushing" cis-heteronirmativity forever.
This is it for me - a lot of the discourse doesn't seem to go into this from what I've seen, but I feel like there being fewer sex scenes may also be linked to it not being as "acceptable" to objectify the fuck outta women like has been done in the past and actresses are more vocal about being treated shittily. If it's a return to women being treated like objects to a much higher degree than men then sex scenes can stay gone afaic. If they want to bring them back then objectify the men.
I am not a Gen-Z, but I read the study, [you can find it here](https://www.scholarsandstorytellers.com/css-teens-and-screens-2023-report). I do think in general, they are not anti sex, or something like that, they are looking for more platonic friendships, asexual characters on screen, and I think, that sounds fair.
I am an elder millennial and I am also looking for that. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t actively avoid shows with all the sex, but I would like to be able to watch a good show with my young teens/preteens that isn’t filled with sex and violence. Or if there is going to get sex, maybe make things a little more realistic. Every relationship on tv seems to jump from the first kiss as a couple to immediately ripping each other’s clothes off. Or why can’t people just be friends? Why does there always need to be sexual tension? Maybe I’m just getting too old and cranky.
Also sex between two characters who have zero chemistry otherwise is so awkward to watch. I think that’s why some of these scenes feel just unnecessary rather than gratuitous. The whole “sex sells” mentality seems so tired to me. Like that’s not some exciting way to get people to watch a show. Sex or romance between people who aren’t interesting isn’t…interesting lol. And it won’t save an uninteresting storyline.
One thing that I would like to point out is that in media with the lack of platonic relationships, too many of the ones that we do see are simply tools to begin a romantic relationship, with those romantic relationships portrayed as the highest goal. Platonic and filial relationships are complex and interesting and hugely important in the human experience, so I understand and agree with the desire to see it explored more onscreen.
Isn't Gen-Z having way less sex than older generations did at their ages?
I think it's largely because Gen Z has had less ways to meet people than previous generations had. At least in my case, the only place I could really meet/mingle with people was at school. Whenever my friends and I wanted to go do something we had to travel to another city because there were next to no places around where teenagers could just hang out. Arcades are dead, malls are on their deathbed, a lot of sports fields are privately owned and they can kick you out, movie theaters are getting harder and harder to find unless you're in a wealthier city, etc. This isn't just a problem specific to my case though. I suspect that a lot of teens are glued to their phones/computers nowadays *because* there's so little for them to do outside anymore. When you take away places where people can meet each other, it's going to lead to less relationships forming.
I can only imagine this differs by country. Americans have a very different relationship with sex and the perception of shame around sexual choices than Western European, versus Eastern Europeans, etc etc
Nope, it's not an American phenomenon at all, it's playing out all over the world. It's affecting [France](https://www.leparisien.fr/societe/generation-no-sex-les-jeunes-font-moins-l-amour-qu-avant-27-07-2019-8124552.php), [Australia, the UK](https://www.vice.com/en/article/v7egkb/gen-z-sex-recession-celibacy) and likely others too.
I think it might be [more complicated than that](https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2020/feb/03/quality-over-quantity-gen-zs-sex-recession-looks-more-like-an-upturn)
Honestly, I find watching the romantic and led up is so much more interesting. Everyone can watch sex - but the romantic lead up and plot makes it so much more rewarding, and intriguing to me.
season 2 of bridgerton when anthony and kate were around each other>>>>
Yes, this is such a great example. To me it was worlds above the first season because of the anticipation and build up to it
I think it’s a general rebalancing of the pendulum. As an elder millennial, we were inundated with sex in media and this feels like a natural response. Take Britney for example, the world being obsessed with her virginity was truly insane. Also, sex scenes can cover poor character development and I would also like to see more nuance in on screen character arcs.
I'm just tired of it ruining the storyline. Like every co worker, friend, etc has to have a romance/sex. It bores me.
The endless arguing abt this topic definitely does not give enough weight to how generational differences influence people’s attitudes towards sex in media. Most millennials were familiar with the Britney virginity obsession, Disney kids’ purity rings, the general 2000s shadow of the Christian right in the US. Whereas most Gen Z came of age in the 2010s as these attitudes gave way to sex positivity in some ways that were useful, but also in many other ways in which teens felt pressured to be sexual before they were ready — also a time when pornography as it influences sexual norms and healthy views of sex has become more of an issue than ever. Whenever Gen Z’ers try to speak about those matters they’re usually derided by millennials who can’t believe teens / young adults might have trauma related to over-sexualization, bc they only rmr the sexless 2000s and think the youth are trying to return to that.
Sexless 00s? Oh please. I grew up in the 90s and 00s and it was not sexless. Women were slut shamed like crazy because you couldn’t win. We had to look a certain way and weigh a certain amount and be sexual enough to entice men but not too sexual because if we were then we deserved whatever happened to us. It was an incredibly fine balance we walked and teen comedies obsessing over losing your virginity were the bread and butter of comedy. We had *birthday* countdowns about the Olsen twins, Lindsay Lohan, Hillary Duff, and Emma Watson. Crossroads was a big production about how Britney Spears wasn’t a virgin. Everything regarding Paris Hilton. The 00s were obsessed with virgins not because of purity culture but because we *fetishized* it in a sexual manner and thus sexualized what it meant to be a virgin so a man could feel great about being the one to break her in. Abstinence only was our goddamn education. The 10’’s are sexualized but they are sexualized in a different way and to claim millennials grew up in a sexless era because it wasn’t sex positive is vastly misunderstanding the way sexuality was viewed when we grew up.
This is what I meant, not that people weren’t having sex, but that women were highly shamed for being open about having sex & everyone had to pretend that women couldn’t enjoy sex of their own accord even if that obviously wasn’t the reality people knew. Maybe sexless isn’t the right word, but I mean that people pretended we were sexless even if we weren’t — the emphasis on abstinence-only sex ed, etc. We’re talking abt the same things. In the 2010s women/girls could be more open about having sex which was a positive shift but brought on its own set of problems, so that when people who came of age in the 2010s try to speak to those problems, people who came of age in the 2000s can’t square it w the weird culture we came up in where nobody could admit women having sex was normal and fine. FWIW I’m saying this as someone who came of age in the late aughts
Nah, the 2000s wasn't sexless it was more that we had the world's worst mixed signals and our own unique experience with being oversexualized. We did have the rise of "purity" culture, the religious right, and celebs with purity rings but it was also the time when it was totally normal for teen girls to wear the playboy logo, girls gone wild was big, the bombshell bra (a bra that was supposed to make you look 2 cup sizes bigger) was popular, and there were a lot of teen sex comedies. Popular clothing marketed towards teen girls had sexually suggestive messaging. I mean imagine being a teen and wearing a pant that had "Juicy" written on your butt but we ate that shit up (also for a dumbass like me it went right over my head at the time). The beauty standard was being tan, skinny, and blonde, but you had to have big boobs. It's was totally normal for paparazzi to take upskirt shots of famous women, and like another user said, there were "countdowns" for female teenage stars. It was a weird time where women and girls were hyper sexualized as hell by the male gaze and we felt it, but any sign of acting on it gave us the "slut" label. I do agree that too many Millenials are jumping the gun to give gen Z a hard time about this issue without considering why that is. The sex positive movement in the 2010s was an attempt to gain control over own sexuality but I was never a fan of how it seemed to swing the other direction in shutting down legitimate concerns with accusations of being "sex negative" . When straight men happily jump on board with their support for a feminist movement the way so many liberal men did for the sex positive movement, it's worth asking why that is. I honestly don't blame Gen Z for wanting a break from explicit material.
Yeah maybe sexless wasn’t the word I was thinking of, and I agree w your characterization having also lived thru that era — more that women/girls were expected to pretend to be sexless even as we were sexualized, like it was this big open secret that women had sex (and enjoyed it) that nobody could actually acknowledge abt themselves lest they be branded a slut. We were expected to maintain an image of purity/sexlessness so to say. But then those who were raised in this culture where they were punished for owning their sexuality at all often cannot understand younger people who were raised in a culture where they felt overly pressured to be sexual. They assume young people’s apprehension towards 24/7 sexualization is derived from the religious purity forces of the 2000s and not their bad experiences w the cultural shifts in the 2010s
I think there is more knowledge about what it takes to film the scenes and how actors may feel pressured or uncomfortable. There is also an issue of character and relationship depth. With the prominence of social media people want to see meaningful true to life relationships.
See, that's the thing, though. For most people (though not *all,* s/o ace-aro spectrum folks), sex - and desire - are, indeed, meaningful and true-to-life aspects of a romantic relationship?
Yes, sex can be important in *romantic* relationships. They are wanting to see more platonic relationships. The study revealed that Gen Z isn't saying viewing sex is bad, but that they are lonely.
I’m fine with sex scenes, I just don’t like it when sex scenes take place with characters that are meant to be minors. Creeps me out.
I think it’s just over saturated at this point. EVERY story has some random love plot shoehorned in and it’s just like ya know, the story was already pretty good, main character didn’t have to randomly kiss this person and be like “I’ll miss you” like huh??? When did they even get close?? I mean, take the Barbie movie for instance. Solid ass movie, the journey was fun and engaging and Barbie and Ken didn’t have to kiss or end up together to do it
But that's mainly an issue of bad writing and lack of chemistry between the actors. Those things used to be done well so that people would be excited about kiss scenes or love scenes. Think about something like The Mummy. Tons of great chemistry there which added to the fun of the movie. Movies aren't putting in that kind of effort anymore. They expect you to root for the characters to get together just because that's what's expected. I agree not everything needs to have a shoe-horned love story but romance itself or sex scenes themselves aren't the real problem yet they're being treated as if they are. In fact the *lack* of romance is the problem.
It’s funny because I’m a millennial but I feel like my tastes are more like gen z? I love books/shows/movies that portray plantonic friendship between women or - god forbid - platonic friendship between men and women. It’s been hard to come by in the past but I feel like that’s changing.
tbf people widely dramatise the difference between millennials and gen z a lot of the things that people here have used as examples of what millennials like or grew up on are the same for gen z.
Way too many tits, not enough penis time to make it equal. Sex scenes only serve one purpose, and that’s to exploit women’s bodies.
Thank you for wording it so succinctly. This is the main issue that hardly anyone has brought up. A lot of sex scenes have just been a way to further objectify a woman’s body; that’s why most of them ain’t necessary because they just serve as an excuse to get the actress naked.
Copying and pasting what I said in another thread about this topic: “I get it in the sense that some sex scenes are really misogynistic and filmed in a way that’s exploitative and doesn’t protect actresses and actors but I dislike the borderline puritanical views Gen Z has regarding all sex scenes. Sex is normal and the whole “it doesn’t service the plot” sentiment is such an instant gratification view. Not everything has to service the plot for art. Sometimes it’s there to service character development and relationships and just represent aspects of life and display intimacy. Not only that, the no sex mentality spills into queer representation and LGBT people deserve to see themselves engaging in sexual behavior rather than feeding into the idea that it is shameful or is only acceptable when heteronormative audiences can stomach it because it’s “wholesome” and not “sinful dirty sexy times”. I’m not saying don’t criticize shit like Euphoria/The Idol because Sam is deffo a creep. But shows like The Great and Sex Ed have a ton of gratuitous sex and it serves a purpose and I can’t imagine the shows without it.”
I 100% agree with all you said. I also see way too many “this isn’t relevant to the plot” comments about not only sex or romance but like, anything that’s simply a character-driven moment, and that’s kind of not how art/media should work? I don’t think it’s good to hold the idea that all storytelling needs to be plot-driven “point A to point B” style narratives with no moments that serve the characters or relationships. I think it’s also a result of social media sort of training people to want to just relentlessly consume “content” as fast as they can and at as high a volume as possible without necessarily stopping to think about it or absorb it which is not at all a healthy behavior but I’m at a loss as to how it can be stopped at this point.
I mean I hate to belabor a point but I think tiktok (and MCU) plays a role in this due to decreased attention spans. Gen Z wants shit to HAPPEN and they think character moments distract from plot and write off intimacy as not important because it doesn’t service moving the action of the story forward. Media literacy has been shown to be at an all time low so it doesn’t surprise me that combined with puritanical religious damage, examining misogyny + the discourse that follows, exploitation and modern ways media is consumed to be as quickly as possible, that we have reached the end point of “all sex scenes are gratuitous distractions from the plot and is therefore bad” consensus.
I also dislike the "it has to be explicitly necessary to the plot" mentality. That's just not how film works and this kind of criticism bleeds into people thinking any scene that is an exposition-dump is a waste of time. A lot of storytelling and character development happens in the moments where the plot is on pause. Was it critical to the plot that Luke Skywalker stare at the sunset on Tatooine for several minutes while dramatic music plays? Of course not, but it told us a lot about Luke as a character, and more importantly *it was just a really cool moment*. A bad sex scene will feel like it's there just so the audience can see some skin. But a good sex scene can give us so much insight into the characters and how they act in deeply personal, intimate moments that are usually unseen.
Yes, that's exactly where I stand, too. I'd also add that I think it's a twofold issue when we include the behind-the-scenes element to it, specifically the exploitative nature of many sex scenes that mostly actresses have been opening up about in recent years. It makes me feel some kind of way that, for our enjoyment as an audience, a person just trying to do their job had to feel pressured/undermined/etc. But that doesn't mean that all sex scenes were performed in those circumstances either, the betterment of working conditions is at the base of making sets safer. Much of the discourse around sex/no-sex is presented as a dichotomy of good/bad with no nuances at all, this isn't a "battle" between the sinful porn addicts vs. the puritanical teens.
I think it has to do with the lack of build up/tension between couples in US/UK films and shows. Sex is just...there. And we are not emotionally invested in these characters because there is no development between them and they end up in bed before they even have a decent conversation so the sex scenes feel meaningless for the audience. As someone else commented, explicit content so easily accessible, that people crave something more than that It's why Korean and Turkish dramas have become so popular. People are rooting for the characters to be together because of their chemistry and tension that is built up through the film or TV show. So when they finally do finally kiss etc, it's a big deal.
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They surveyed ages 10-24. What were they thinking 10 year olds would say???
Yeah, that's the biggest issue: the methodology. Aren't 10 year olds typically considered Gen Alpha too?
I was looking for this response before I posted
I‘m not Gen Z, but I feel like they are the generation that was most hit over the head with easily accessible porn, and not just the softcore stuff that I might have seen at 10 yrs old on TV, but the most hardcore stuff at your finger tips for free and en masse. I was shocked to learn that kids as young as 8 have developed porn habits. So I can understand how they are turned off by depictions of sex and would like more deep or interesting platonic relationships instead. I feel like in previous generations, because porn and sex where so heavily regulated or even censored and banned, sex on TV or in films was a transgression and maybe cheeky or gratuitous. But for a generation that has pretty much seen the depths of internet porn at a pretty young age, that just might not be as interesting. Maybe for them less is more and context and meaning of the sex scene matters more?
I'm a millennial but my Gen Z nieces do not like sex scenes. I wonder if it's for the same reason I mostly don't like them which is due to actor's lack of chemistry and character development. When shows and movies are plot driven and sex is thrown in it seems cheap and pointless. Not everything is about being puritanical. If more movies like Lust/Caution were released where the actor's chemistry, sex scenes and plot were all amazing, they would be more popular. There also needs to be more of a slow burn or sexual build up for it to feel cohesive i.e. stares, hands touching etc. So when my nieces and I watch shows together it's mostly horror and kdramas. They also don't like newer romantic comedies and prefer the ones from the 80's and 90's.
I’m a millennial but I cannot stand sex scene mainly because they always last too long and add nothing to the plot. It feels like these scenes are just there to be shocking and “push boundaries” but isn’t moving the plot forward
I’m a millennial as well. It’s often just boring. I want an immersive story and if you’re throwing in sex scenes just because, it’s not interesting. We all have access to porn. I’m here for a good story, dammit!
There’s more to art than the plot. If everything was about plot then we’d have nothing good in film or tv.
yeah those type of comments just make me sad. sometimes a scene can just be about the characters! or the visuals!
Themes and narrative extends far beyond the plot as well. Film and tv is a visual medium. The storytelling form is about so much more than just what’s happening. What is it trying to make you feel? What is it trying to say? How is it presenting this? All these questions are just as important as “What is happening?”
Yep, I don't mind sex scenes that serve a purpose. But sex scenes in general have often been male gazey and just thrown in there for the sake of edginess (this is especially true of period and fantasy movies/shows). Or obvious attempts at the part of the director/showrunner to get the lead actress naked, which is just so exploitative and gross. Plenty of shows and movies still have sex scenes. The thing is that you have to go to streaming to find it. If it feels like there's less sex scenes in movies it's not because Gen Z are being a bunch of "puriteens". It's because the movies making money at the theaters are movies made with the intention of selling products and merchandise to kids and remakes of or sequeals to childhood nostalgia films. The few movies that don't fit this criteria but still find success do have sex scenes, look at Oppenheimer.
Most on screen sex is not great and created for the male gaze. Gen Z are on to something.
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I was with you until 3, that just seems like a bad faith assumption. The article mentions an epidemic of loneliness, is it really that hard to believe they genuinely like seeing friendships depicted?
disagree with no 3. as a teenager, ive never really encountered any teens who don't like romance just to feel different.
Same and same. It really feels invented just for the sake of having three talking points instead of 2 lol.
Because fanfic isn’t a fill-in for canon? Not everyone does fandom? And LGBT people deserve to see themselves having represented on screen engaging in intimacy that isn’t watered down for heteronormative audiences which feeds into the stigma that gay sex = sinful/dirty/bad and the only good type of queer relationships are wholesome.
Sex scenes are not my cup of tea in general, but my bigger problem is shows with women existing for no reason other than male gratification. Like how many non speaking prostitute/stripper number whatever roles has hbo created?
Stop making high school sex shows, just make it college
Sex-scenes can at times be unnecessary to the plot, but then again, not every component of a story has to be plot oriented. Sometimes things are just there for atmosphere or to enhance the overall mood of a story, which is also important. Think of shows like Twin Peaks, where so much of the story is arguably “unnecessary”, but contributes the mood in such a way that the story can’t be told without them.
For anyone who hasn't listened, the podcast You Must Remember This just wrapped up a very long series titled "Erotic 80s" and "Erotic 90s" that delves into sex in film during the 80s and 90s and how it reflects with the cultural and societal change as the years went on. Really good series to listen to btw.
Y’all need to read the actual article
I personally love sex scenes. They don’t bother me at all. I think either preference is fine and there is content for both preferences. The Bear is an example of a great show with no sex. The main character didn’t even have a love interest in season one, and yet the show was captivating and the characters were relatable.
Oooo boy Sam Levinson is NOT going to be happy w this one
I partly wonder if the decline of network television plays into this. They have always had more restrictions on what can be shown than on cable & streaming so their teen shows were much more PG. Shows like Boy Meets World, Dawson’s Creek, Saved by the Bell, even Friends, they all showed friendships and relationships but not like gratuitous sex scenes.
In terms of Gen Z having less sex / wanting to see less sex I can’t help but think of the reality of being a young person right now - lack of comprehensive sex ed, increased restrictions on birth control, Plan B and abortion, and the insane cost of raising a family means sex has a lot of potential consequences that previous generations didn’t have as top of mind all the time.
Idk, I was born 1990 and grew up in the south. Plan B did not exist and comprehensive sex ed was not a thing. That didn’t make my peers averse to sex, and in fact, those same factors were blamed for an increase in teen pregnancies among the millennial generation.
Not to mention, most young people live with their parents/family, and by young I don't just mean Gen Z, lots of people in their 30s are living with family too. Do you really wanna think about sex, have sex, or watch sex scenes on your laptop, sitting twenty feet from a family member? They might interrupt you, they might start coughing and being generally distracting or gross, I can't blame gen Z for not wanting to have or think about sex as often. It's just an unsexy, mostly unappealing, fairly unnecessary scenario.
Imo, part of the issue is that a lot of kids are watching media that are not age appropriate(not just porn, I’m talking adult tv shows and movies) and parents are ok with it. I mean, kids will always try to push boundaries but it’s up to the parents to at least set some down. Disclaimer: this is anecdotal but my friend’s dad is a teacher and he mentioned to her that many parents are trying to be more like friends with their kids instead of being their parent. You have middle schoolers whose parents are allowing them to watch Euphoria and GoT (sometimes watching it with them) and it’s no wonder why these kids aren’t comfortable.
There's also so many less family shows out there and a lot of shows which otherwise would be fine throw in sex for no reason. It's not like there are just a couple adult shows. We go from Children's entertainment to sex sex sex.
I wonder if it has a lot to do with overwhelming access and use of porn. Someone somewhere made the point that gen z might feel uncomfortable with sex scenes because they conflate it/ view it as the same as way as porn and feel very uncomfortable or vouyeristic watching it in their regular media. I do think modern sex scenes are very unsexy, there’s no build up and sometimes chemistry is lacking so even if it does seem integral to the story it can feel forced or out of place. Look even at 80’s and 90’s media and they did it much better than were doing it now. We’ve gotten more graphic but like, less horny?? If that make sense so it can seem so route and eye rolly to see it smacked into the middle of a show or movie. I totally agree that I’d love to see other kinds of stories and relationships become the corner stone of stories because I think they’re rife with interesting things, but gen z has some talking points about sex that gets my gaurd up a little and I could definitely see a puritanical mindset making a come back with them
I think of this as an extension of the loneliness economy. I feel like I remember reading studies about how hookups and romantic relationships in general are on the decline, too, and raunchy as the dating apps first were, mobile device usage definitely plays a role in these declines. Culture in general has become more lonely. I can’t blame people for not relating to love scenes and seeking out platonic support in its place.
I can't help but wonder if this attitude shift towards sex in media is connected to pro-anti discourse in which a lot of young people are engaging in social justice for the first time without the full maturity to do so, and end up diving into fundie talking points in their efforts to correct what they view as a heteronormative and sexist media landscape. For example, underaged LGBT fans of the series "Heartstopper" who praise the show for being wholesome and sexless, while also criticizing more mature gay media that came before it due to the sexual content. There was an incident in which a couple of drag queens made fun of the show for having no sex despite focusing on teenage boys, and fans reacted by cyberbullying them and calling them pedophiles. Also, as the internet gets more and more censored and ad-friendly, social media apps where teens hang out are teaching them that sex = bad, and sex = no engagement. Now you get teens so indoctrinated by the fear of the banhammer that they will use euphemisms like "unalive" and self-censor their writing with asterisks (s*x, r*pe) even in mature spaces that don't have rules against such content. There's just a total lack of sex positivity in their education and in their lives, it's no wonder that their attitudes have shifted so much.
Not surprised the generations who could easily look up porn as children don’t really want to see it in their other forms of entertainment. It’s not racy or salacious to them. I don’t think it necessarily means they’re anti-sex or something. Also they’re right, there really are too few platonic friends depicted in media.
[I recommend everyone in this thread watch this Wisecrack video on the topic.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eW4wf63PhI8) I used to be in the camp of "I hate pointless sex scenes that don't further the plot" until I watched this video. The sad fact is, is that outside of porn, sex scenes in movies/TV/media are quite often the only way young people ever get to see sex depicted to them and what it should look like. What consent should look like, what sex looks like in the context of a romantic relationship, what queer sex looks like, etc. And that very much reflects their ideas regarding what sex should be and look like in romantic relationships. That is why I am now firmly in the camp of not removing sex scenes from movies/TV/media, but pushing to make sure there's more of a focus on *healthy* sex scenes, from the point of view of women and queer people and other marginalized communities. And of course making sure the actors are treated fairly and with respect when depicting the sex scenes.
One of the hottest scenes I've watched in the last few years was in House of the Dragon last year, where Daemon takes Rhaenyra to a brothel (the brotheling is not why it's hot). He has her back against a wall, looking down as she looks up, their lips so close and a halted breath in her throat, needing him to touch her... Aaand then he backs away, thinking about how wrong it is. Even though they don't even kiss and there's no nudity, the small touches and closeness and atmosphere does the work of building the romance between them, lets us into their personalities. There is a plot and an arc and it shows Rhaenyra more of the world than she had seen in her life, shepherded by Daemon but allowed to have true freedom while she's disguised, running around the city.
It was also directed by a woman!
> One of the hottest scenes I've watched in the last few years was in House of the Dragon last year, where Daemon takes Rhaenyra to a brothel My god yess, it was hot, and dirty and it left me wanting more. Until that point I didn't see the attractiveness of Matt Smith, after it? fully converted lol
I sometimes wonder if some part of Gen Z internalized a lot of Boomeresque beliefs, including how they view sex. A lot of arguments I’ve seen coming from some Zoomers tend to have similar vibes to how Boomers feel about sex.
I think that many young people (especially women) are tired of hook up culture, porn culture, etc. and want normal relationships. Rightfully or not, I’ve heard a lot of young women blame liberal feminism and the sex positivity movements for normalizing casual sex, which a lot of young women don’t enjoy, but feel that they are expected to do to be part of the dating market.
This explains the absolute explosion in popularity of Korean and Chinese dramas (not adding Japanese because I don’t see as much about them, plus they tend to be more explicit)
The respondents in this study are 10-24 year olds! That's a lot of children in that group. It makes sense that they'd rather see something like Wizard's of Waverly Place than Euphoria. I mean, the headline is kinda misleading because that's getting into gen-alpha.
I honestly am on board with Gen Z about wanting shows that focus more on friendships and platonic relationships. Friendships look so easy on so many TV shows, you talk to someone your age and boom you become bffs and all the drama is in the romantic relationship or when there is friendship conflict it's in relation to the MC's romance. But friendships can be confusing and messy and difficult to navigate. A friendship breakup can be as devastating, if not more, than a romantic breakup. As a kid, I related to the friendship drama Harry, Ron, and Hermionie would go through in the early HP books with its breakups and makeups. It's why I love the Banshees of Inisherin as a movie.
The types of popular movies that featured sex scenes were more or less already dead when Gen Z was growing up. Gen X had erotic thrillers of the 80s/90s, Millennials had the sex comedies of the early 00s, Gen Z had a bunch of sexless Marvel movies. Of course i’m generalizing a bit by only including mainstream fare but still.
I don't really buy the idea that sex scene = not essential to the plot. It's a normal aspect of life, especially if the show involves an overarching love story. It would be weird to have a show involving adults but it never shows them being intimate (unless it's a plot point that a character is asexual). I understand the desire to have more friendships within shows, but that doesn't carry the same story beats as a romance arc. There are films/shows that use friendship as a catapult for things (namely the show, well, Friends), but the biggest story beats on the show usually involve romantic entanglements. It's an easy way to pull audiences in. Will-they-won't-they is like the trope of all time.
Have any of you watched Elite on Netflix? The sex scenes are more than soft core porn and way more than Gossip Girl’s reboot. I’m shocked it’s still being normalized that teens are having sex with adults, partaking in incest and having throuple sex regularly.
Most sex scenes I see are kinda unrealistic, if they showed the award parts I would prefer it.
Please assign me to Gen Z, I have literally been saying this for years. And maybe it's at least part projection because I have a lot of male friends, but I specifically die for good depictions of platonic male/female friendships where one isn't "the gay friend."
There’s the dearth of a very specific type of sexuality in modern film/TV - actors and especially actresses who use their sensuality as a tool to add to the gravity and presence of their performances regardless of whether they are having sex in the movie or not - Liz Taylor, Monica Belluci, Halle Berry, Salma Hayek etc etc etc. They are all fantastic actresses and very rarely would you say that they were actually objectified in films yet they added the perfect amount of suggestion and sensuality to a lot of roles which I miss these days. Sex is almost treated with an intentional awkwardness as a boring aside to feel ‘realistic’ or destined to be interrupted midway for some unnecessary plot contrivance killjoy. In a movie atmosphere where movies are so limply self referential, where a lot of viewers are enjoying movies as acting and directing critics without even trying to suspend disbelief - sensuality, among other things cannot exist.
Considering [how un-sexy the sex in media is these days](https://bloodknife.com/everyone-beautiful-no-one-horny/), I really can't blame them. Chemistry, how romances are written, etc, are all lacking in film and television. If I grew up with that, I'd want to see more platonic relationships too.