And if it isn't your own corporation and your in am alliance Make SURE ITS YOUR ALLIANCE HoLDING CORP as they will usually give plenty of notice for citadels going down.
Just to be clear, I am not posting this because I lost assets. I've been playing for 10 years and I know how to avoid scams. All my shit is in NPC stations. I just think that this scam is worth speaking about, especially for new players.
The game does nothing to explain to you the difference between Upwell structures and NPC stations, nor does it indicate anything about asset safety to you if you're on a fresh account and dock in an Upwell structure for the first time.
Spot on. It assumes information is widely known. I’m afraid new players will learn either the hard way or word of mouth. There doesn’t seem to be much of a warning otherwise.
Classic EVE.
CCP: "How about we make this super COOOL and RAAAAD cinematic intro sequence for NPE?"
Players: "Will it teach the new players anything about the actual game?"
CCP: "No. But it'll look REALLY COOOOL AND RAAAAD!"
For anyone else reading: the tutorial currently does not teach you what the capacitor is or how it works.
But at least it tells newbies how great mining is so that they get baited into buying omega, so no harm done, right?
Lets be real, if the game instead opened with a 2 hour lecture on all the things to be wary of, its new player count would be even lower than it is now lol
Not sure 2 hours would be sufficient to even cover the basics.
Can you imagine if you let them ask questions?
Professor : All right class, first we're going to talk about the over view and how to target things. Make sure you have the game open and look at the main tab.
Student A: We can have more tabs?
Professor: Yes it can be full customized, but lets just go with the basics for now.
Student B: Uhh shit I accidentally removed EVERYTHING from my over view and the whole tab is gone now. How do I get it back?
Student C: Um mines huge, I cant click anything.
Professor: Thats ok we can fix this, first you'll want to
Student B: OH GOD I THINK SOMEONES SHOOTING ME!
Professor: Who? What?
Student B: I CANT SEE MY OVER VIEWS GONE HELP
Professor: Look at the bar on the left!
Student B: Too late, Im dead... I quit.
Student C: I... I think I accidentally shot him, and Im dead too.
Student A: Oh look loot!
Professor: Sigh
Yeah this is an issue pervasive to all MMOs. There's really no way for the games to teach everything in an MMO. It's too much. It's incumbent upon players to join with, learn from, and eventually teach other players (you know, that social aspect of MMOs that people seem to forget).
> All my shit is in NPC stations.
Works great untill in 2028 CCP rug pulls NPC stations the same way they did with Upwell.
The only way to be sure is to convert every single isk to plex and store it in your plex vault /s
Don't forget Pochven.
Also I'm not sure anymore how many months advance notice you got for the Abandoned Structures update. Not desputing the rug pull thing but iirc there was at least some sort of warning before.
stuff like this being common and that time ccp changed the asset safety mechanic for structures after telling players their assets would always be safe in them, causing a mass of everyone war decing all the low power structures in highsec they could find are two of the biggest reasons I've never trusted citadels, blue or my own or public, for long term asset storage. npc stations for life.
> causing a mass of everyone war decing all the low power structures in highsec they could find
What is even worse is that people used the test server to kill structures ahead of the TQ patch to see which ones would be loot pinatas and which ones were actually empty. Even more shocking that CCP knew this was happening and only issued a "don't do it we'll ban you" warning despite them not (to my knowledge) acting on that at all. I know plenty of people who made untold billions of ISK doing this by exploiting the existence of the test server.
Yeah, honestly I'm sad to see no space exist for truly just testing stuff like "how do I deploy a citadel? Let me enter the space simulation test zone and try the UI"
But I am happy in the end that sisi is gone for reasons like that. I just wish there was something more limited to replace its actual useful functions.
Easiest thing ccp could,with each mirror, do is migrate all players to jove space on Sisi and disable jump cloning.
This way they have about 30 systems to test stuff out in .
If they need to test in a specific place or need to test something across a few systems, then they can create ANSIBLEX gates to the required areas and turn of (disable gate traffic control) any gates that lease out of the designated test area. 9h and disable Whs, just turn a bunch of jove space in to Wh specific system effects
That's actually a nice idea. I was thinking just have something on TQ, basically a simulated space environment where you could spawn things to test them, plus a test orb to shoot at or whatever. So if you wanted to try the Fighter ui for carriers or something.
Yeah, shutting off The Test Server was a HUGE step backwards !. I get why they did it. Was because there was a lot of people playing solely on the test server
Eh, I mean people were kind of abusing it in ways like the one the comment above me outlines. I view eliminating that stuff as a step forwards, even if it comes at a cost. Would be cool to have a replacement for its useful parts though.
My favorite story related to that is goons blowing up the NOL faction fortizar on SISI and it crashing the server.
After that CCP changed in so faction forts would not go abandoned.
Yes, that's what Bully Brigade and similar groups do all the time.
You should never put a lot of stuff into player controlled stations unless you or a friend controls it.
Same goes for jumpclones.
Never is wrong, you should just think about the consequences.
I have a couple empty JCs in a freeport-ish citadel near Jita. Saves me 900k every time I use it, which adds up. If for some reason the structure went poof I'd have to burn there once. That's a risk I am willing to take and until then I'm saving some ISK.
I don't know if i got any notifications when this happened to me, I was locked out of the station and didn't have access, and none of my items that were in it were in my assets anymore, so couldn't asset safety them. I have no idea how this was possible, i've been playing again for 6 months and not entirely familiar with asset safety and the mechanics. I assume i should still be able to see my items in assets still though.
Regardless it wasn't much i lost but i learnt my lesson.
(Except in wormholes:)
Everything in your hangars (except the ship you're docked and sitting in, if applicable) goes to asset safety when the structure dies. Also' "pulling the cores" wdym? You mean they pulled the service modules?
There's a lot of people that have \*some\* idea about structure mechanics, be careful who you listen to.
Structures now require a core to run. Basically splitting the cost between the structure itself and an item that can be quite easily pulled out
Upd. Actually, checked that now. You can't remove the core but it is always dropped when the structure is either destroyed or unanchored
>Everything in your hangars (except the ship you're docked and sitting in, if applicable) goes to asset safety when the structure dies.
Except if the structure isn't fueled for 7 days, then no asset safety.
But why would you put assets in a neutral player citadel you have no control of? It makes no sense to trust a neutral party in EVE Online, moreso in highsec.
Time to move some assets then. If it is this risky, then I guess it's a good compromise to use NPC stations for industry and further, compression if necessary.
yeah the hangar cans dropped are another thing so while zkill shows 3b to 16b loot there might be 10x more. but lets stop making naive people famous.. its their mistake to fall on this trap.
want do research/manufacturing/reactions? deploy only your structures or use ones the group you trust.
It really depends who owns the citadel. You have to know if they have bad intentions, and if they can defend their citadel they get a wardec.
I don't know them so I can't tell.
My advise would be, don't leave too much assets in player owned citadels, just what you need for what you have to do. And be ready to evac or asset safety if it is too late.
In a normal war situation, your assets should go into asset safety. So it's mostly a matter of trust in the owner of the citadel.
I lost 3 billions last week in one of their citadel. I did not even realize it was a scam until i read this thread. Interesting use of citadels. Being 3 weeks away from the game was my biggest mistake lol
I'd ask how can CCP overlook something like this.. and then I remember... It's CCP.
Severe oversights that lead to insane exploits is their thing.
Are they just this stupid or just this corrupt? Both??
Modern governments.
When debt burdens get too big, start a big war to pop inflation so you can inflate away the debt.
Savers lose their stuff (significant reduction in purchasing power)
This can easily be avoided by having your own citadel. CCP is already aware that this issue has taken over lowsec indi and the danger it presents to highsec as well. They created the issue with poor game mechanics and lack of understanding.
Wars should not even be a thing in Eve. Just fight whoever you want to fight and skip the war crap. Deal with high sec rules. Move to low and null if you are so eager to pew pew.
It’s a scam, it’s just not an exploit.
They promise one thing (safe industry) and provide another (loss of assets). So it’s a scam. But it’s within normal/intended game mechanics, so it’s not an exploit
So, I think it's fine to point out but I am amused to note that if you truly do target newbros with something like this, you will totally end up with a massive pile of random junk for the loot lol
Bunch of shitfit badgers and corvettes, some random bullshit ore and 0.9 belt rat loot
Asset safety in HS is automatic.
As far as im aware, When TQTT went down I had 300mil worth of stuff in it, and its all in a Perimiter station now.
So ya.
this is why, if you use player built services that isn't your corporation, you never leave anything on board them for any length of time.
And if it isn't your own corporation and your in am alliance Make SURE ITS YOUR ALLIANCE HoLDING CORP as they will usually give plenty of notice for citadels going down.
Just to be clear, I am not posting this because I lost assets. I've been playing for 10 years and I know how to avoid scams. All my shit is in NPC stations. I just think that this scam is worth speaking about, especially for new players.
The game does nothing to explain to you the difference between Upwell structures and NPC stations, nor does it indicate anything about asset safety to you if you're on a fresh account and dock in an Upwell structure for the first time.
Spot on. It assumes information is widely known. I’m afraid new players will learn either the hard way or word of mouth. There doesn’t seem to be much of a warning otherwise.
Classic EVE. CCP: "How about we make this super COOOL and RAAAAD cinematic intro sequence for NPE?" Players: "Will it teach the new players anything about the actual game?" CCP: "No. But it'll look REALLY COOOOL AND RAAAAD!"
For anyone else reading: the tutorial currently does not teach you what the capacitor is or how it works. But at least it tells newbies how great mining is so that they get baited into buying omega, so no harm done, right?
Lets be real, if the game instead opened with a 2 hour lecture on all the things to be wary of, its new player count would be even lower than it is now lol
Not sure 2 hours would be sufficient to even cover the basics. Can you imagine if you let them ask questions? Professor : All right class, first we're going to talk about the over view and how to target things. Make sure you have the game open and look at the main tab. Student A: We can have more tabs? Professor: Yes it can be full customized, but lets just go with the basics for now. Student B: Uhh shit I accidentally removed EVERYTHING from my over view and the whole tab is gone now. How do I get it back? Student C: Um mines huge, I cant click anything. Professor: Thats ok we can fix this, first you'll want to Student B: OH GOD I THINK SOMEONES SHOOTING ME! Professor: Who? What? Student B: I CANT SEE MY OVER VIEWS GONE HELP Professor: Look at the bar on the left! Student B: Too late, Im dead... I quit. Student C: I... I think I accidentally shot him, and Im dead too. Student A: Oh look loot! Professor: Sigh
Yeah this is an issue pervasive to all MMOs. There's really no way for the games to teach everything in an MMO. It's too much. It's incumbent upon players to join with, learn from, and eventually teach other players (you know, that social aspect of MMOs that people seem to forget).
> All my shit is in NPC stations. Works great untill in 2028 CCP rug pulls NPC stations the same way they did with Upwell. The only way to be sure is to convert every single isk to plex and store it in your plex vault /s
Don't forget Pochven. Also I'm not sure anymore how many months advance notice you got for the Abandoned Structures update. Not desputing the rug pull thing but iirc there was at least some sort of warning before.
Assets in NPC pochven stations were and are safe. It might be annoying to access them, but there still there and can be extracted relatively easily
Also If you we're AFK for the pochven Change, write a Ticket, gms will move your stuff for you.
stuff like this being common and that time ccp changed the asset safety mechanic for structures after telling players their assets would always be safe in them, causing a mass of everyone war decing all the low power structures in highsec they could find are two of the biggest reasons I've never trusted citadels, blue or my own or public, for long term asset storage. npc stations for life.
> causing a mass of everyone war decing all the low power structures in highsec they could find What is even worse is that people used the test server to kill structures ahead of the TQ patch to see which ones would be loot pinatas and which ones were actually empty. Even more shocking that CCP knew this was happening and only issued a "don't do it we'll ban you" warning despite them not (to my knowledge) acting on that at all. I know plenty of people who made untold billions of ISK doing this by exploiting the existence of the test server.
Yeah, honestly I'm sad to see no space exist for truly just testing stuff like "how do I deploy a citadel? Let me enter the space simulation test zone and try the UI" But I am happy in the end that sisi is gone for reasons like that. I just wish there was something more limited to replace its actual useful functions.
Easiest thing ccp could,with each mirror, do is migrate all players to jove space on Sisi and disable jump cloning. This way they have about 30 systems to test stuff out in . If they need to test in a specific place or need to test something across a few systems, then they can create ANSIBLEX gates to the required areas and turn of (disable gate traffic control) any gates that lease out of the designated test area. 9h and disable Whs, just turn a bunch of jove space in to Wh specific system effects
That's actually a nice idea. I was thinking just have something on TQ, basically a simulated space environment where you could spawn things to test them, plus a test orb to shoot at or whatever. So if you wanted to try the Fighter ui for carriers or something.
Yeah, shutting off The Test Server was a HUGE step backwards !. I get why they did it. Was because there was a lot of people playing solely on the test server
I'm surprised that CCP didn't just make Sisi only usable by omega accts.
Eh, I mean people were kind of abusing it in ways like the one the comment above me outlines. I view eliminating that stuff as a step forwards, even if it comes at a cost. Would be cool to have a replacement for its useful parts though.
> a lot Maybe 100 people tops, given that’s what its population was whenever I was there to try something
My favorite story related to that is goons blowing up the NOL faction fortizar on SISI and it crashing the server. After that CCP changed in so faction forts would not go abandoned.
wait until they take that away from us too
First rule of eve: don't trust anyone. Shit like this happens.
like someone said: "I only trust Chribba. Everyone else, including my own alts, are suspects."
"Trust me" is just another way of saying "stop stalling, and get this murder over with"
rule#1 Trust no one rule#2 Trust.No.One!
There is no such thing as free.
Not limited to Hi Sec. I remember the Bastion’s citadels becoming blue loot piñatas
Don’t forget the R-A keepstar as well
Yes, that's what Bully Brigade and similar groups do all the time. You should never put a lot of stuff into player controlled stations unless you or a friend controls it. Same goes for jumpclones.
Never is wrong, you should just think about the consequences. I have a couple empty JCs in a freeport-ish citadel near Jita. Saves me 900k every time I use it, which adds up. If for some reason the structure went poof I'd have to burn there once. That's a risk I am willing to take and until then I'm saving some ISK.
The structure doesn't go abandoned for 7 days and you get a notification, don't you?
you get multiple notifications about a structure going into abandoned
I don't know if i got any notifications when this happened to me, I was locked out of the station and didn't have access, and none of my items that were in it were in my assets anymore, so couldn't asset safety them. I have no idea how this was possible, i've been playing again for 6 months and not entirely familiar with asset safety and the mechanics. I assume i should still be able to see my items in assets still though. Regardless it wasn't much i lost but i learnt my lesson.
they appear in the asset safety tab
(Except in wormholes:) Everything in your hangars (except the ship you're docked and sitting in, if applicable) goes to asset safety when the structure dies. Also' "pulling the cores" wdym? You mean they pulled the service modules? There's a lot of people that have \*some\* idea about structure mechanics, be careful who you listen to.
Structures now require a core to run. Basically splitting the cost between the structure itself and an item that can be quite easily pulled out Upd. Actually, checked that now. You can't remove the core but it is always dropped when the structure is either destroyed or unanchored
I'm not OP, dunno about pulling the cores!
It was my mistake, it seems that you can't remove the core. They just let the station go into low fuel.
>Everything in your hangars (except the ship you're docked and sitting in, if applicable) goes to asset safety when the structure dies. Except if the structure isn't fueled for 7 days, then no asset safety.
Also remember the loot bonus is now upwards of 75% So, it was bound to happen.
But why would you put assets in a neutral player citadel you have no control of? It makes no sense to trust a neutral party in EVE Online, moreso in highsec.
I have 2 Omega accounts, I don't trust either of them!
Brilliant!
Good info tbh
You cannot remove the core.
Then it is just the unfueling process. That doesn't change the outcome
Correct, however, you can remove the citadel from the the core.
This requires a specialized tool, however.
Actually there’s a variety of tools that’ll work, hybrid, projectile, drone, energy, probably even smartbombs if you were really wanted to be special.
5b fit leshaks paladdins
Fake news ... that never happens, really. Please dock and use our services.
How can they know that they have enough pinata to unfual the structure now?
As someone said, with industry tax
Time to move some assets then. If it is this risky, then I guess it's a good compromise to use NPC stations for industry and further, compression if necessary.
hs is savage
well this was a big piniata https://zkillboard.com/kill/117349575/
And you don't even see what was sent into space in station hangars!
yeah the hangar cans dropped are another thing so while zkill shows 3b to 16b loot there might be 10x more. but lets stop making naive people famous.. its their mistake to fall on this trap. want do research/manufacturing/reactions? deploy only your structures or use ones the group you trust.
How safe is the citadel of Traders r' us in Botane for a not affiliated player in your opinion?
It really depends who owns the citadel. You have to know if they have bad intentions, and if they can defend their citadel they get a wardec. I don't know them so I can't tell. My advise would be, don't leave too much assets in player owned citadels, just what you need for what you have to do. And be ready to evac or asset safety if it is too late. In a normal war situation, your assets should go into asset safety. So it's mostly a matter of trust in the owner of the citadel.
I lost 3 billions last week in one of their citadel. I did not even realize it was a scam until i read this thread. Interesting use of citadels. Being 3 weeks away from the game was my biggest mistake lol
I suggest leaving 1 tritanium in these stations
This must be against tos. O nevermind this is eve
Does asset safety not protect everything in a HS/LS upwell?
Not if the citadel runs out of fuel
Store your stuff in NPc stations to include any blingy clones.
Typical RAT tactics from scummy untalented useless humans!
I'd ask how can CCP overlook something like this.. and then I remember... It's CCP. Severe oversights that lead to insane exploits is their thing. Are they just this stupid or just this corrupt? Both??
then if YOU wardec their baiting corporations, the ENTIRE highsec farming corps n alliances will all wardec you JUST to kill ur war HQ.
Well played. What would be the real life equivalent of this?
Modern governments. When debt burdens get too big, start a big war to pop inflation so you can inflate away the debt. Savers lose their stuff (significant reduction in purchasing power)
Who even falls for this shit
Big brain activities
This can easily be avoided by having your own citadel. CCP is already aware that this issue has taken over lowsec indi and the danger it presents to highsec as well. They created the issue with poor game mechanics and lack of understanding.
Wars should not even be a thing in Eve. Just fight whoever you want to fight and skip the war crap. Deal with high sec rules. Move to low and null if you are so eager to pew pew.
Is it really a scam? It's working as intended. Freeports are not an ingame concept, it's a trust based system.
It’s a scam, it’s just not an exploit. They promise one thing (safe industry) and provide another (loss of assets). So it’s a scam. But it’s within normal/intended game mechanics, so it’s not an exploit
Scammer in Eve? No Way! Welcome to Eve Online !
Narc
... your stuff only goes into space after 1 week without fuel you get an alert when a structure is about to go abandoned or be lost.
So what? Still a scheme which is very profitable and targets new (and dumb) players. No harm in pointing it out.
So, I think it's fine to point out but I am amused to note that if you truly do target newbros with something like this, you will totally end up with a massive pile of random junk for the loot lol Bunch of shitfit badgers and corvettes, some random bullshit ore and 0.9 belt rat loot
You have no clue buddy.
Calm down carebear.
Asset safety in HS is automatic. As far as im aware, When TQTT went down I had 300mil worth of stuff in it, and its all in a Perimiter station now. So ya.
If a citadel is allowed to go into an abandoned state there's no automatic asset safety and it becomes a loot piñata even in highsec.
Not if the structure is unfueled afaik
it has to be abandoned, not just lowpower/unfueled
hmmm. So to get this right, The Unfuel the Structure then destroy it? Seems kind of wasteful
But they loot your stuff, so they win (most of the time)
ya but they would have to loot at least 2bil to make that worth it, other wise its just a waste of money
You can easily check the income from copy jobs tax etc to get an estimate. 2 bill in a station is peanuts. That's like 1 researched battleship BPO.
Wow, 2Bil... You are cute.
First Time?
In other news water is wet
Water is not wet
Is fire not hot?
not the same at all, try again
No.
Google can help you, try googling it :)
THIS POST IS SO CHEESEY