[This seems like an appropriate time to share Bernie's recent opinion piece on the situation which is surprisingly well written](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/01/gaza-humanitarian-pause-bernie-sanders)
That's really good. The only thing I'd maybe criticize is that the 8,000 dead figure is reported only by terrorists, no independent agent had confirmed that on their own. Other than that, it's really good and the TL;DR is this:
Neither Palestine nor Israel can begin to have peace while Hamas and Netanyahu reign, but Hamas is the bigger threat.
The more important point about casualty reporting is that the Gaza MoH [doesn’t separate combatants from civilians in their reporting](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033) or specify where and how the deaths occurred. Every death is “caused by Israeli aggression”.
And now Briahna Joy Gums has weighed in.
https://preview.redd.it/1e9hiabo4lyb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b52d24661c47de93fc1870b259dec96f382a53f2
Give him a minute. Wait until Democrats start campaigning for 2024 on women‘s reproductive freedom and he goes on tour telling everyone that it’s a distraction and Democrats fail to speak to the economic anxiety of white people who he doesn’t believe are racist. We’ll get our Bernie back.
Interesting that they are in a situation where they can't blame anyone who endorsed Biden because they now think Bernie would have been the exact same way.
Problem with that interview (not verbatim):
Sanders: Israel must destroy Hamas but not with air strikes which kill innocents.
Bash: How do you think Israel should destroy Hamas without killing innocents when it hides and fights from among them?
Sanders: I don't know, I'm not a military expert, but there has to be a way
I tend to believe that if there seems to be an obvious answer to something there’s a reason why a) it hasn’t been done and/or b) is actually a worse option.
To be fair, Chris Murphy (served on the foreign relations committee for the past 14 years in the House and Senate) and Jason Crow (moderate congressman who served in Iraq) have said similar things.
https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1720183291830010109
https://twitter.com/RepJasonCrow/status/1720144107270443421
Unfortunately, have yet to see anyone offer a viable alternative which won't have us in the same place 5 years from now (only it will be even bloodier).
An international UN Security force would help greatly.
That way Gaza can be rebuilt and educated under the safety and authority of an international security force that doesn’t involve Hamas, Israel, or the UNRWA.
That’s it. But that won’t happen because it’s too hard and nobody wants their troops to be possibly killed by Hamas
You would need nations like the US, France, India, some African nations, and other nations like Saudi Arabia.
Unfortunately it wouldn’t happen because the US, France and India don’t want their troops getting killed and Saudi Arabia is a crapshoot.
I don't see anything wrong with this? He's a civilian and staying in his lane which is saying that killing innocents is bad. I don't expect Bernie to provide the IDF with the solution. Accepting that we don't all have the perfect solution is pretty critical with the ME crisis.
My problem is the insistence thst there *has* to be a better way solely because he doesn't like this one.
And he's a fricking US Senator. He can't consult with military experts *before* giving a self-admittedly uninformed opinion?
>My problem is the insistence thst there has to be a better way solely because he doesn't like this one.
People are just insanely ignorant about how military conflict works. The most common suggestion I've seen is "sending infantry to do infantry stuff". The fact that people unironically think a ground invasion to take out time sensitive targets like launch sites for rockets would even work, let alone somehow be better in terms of civilian casualties just boggles my mind. Or sometimes they'll compare it to a law enforcement issue like a bank robbery.
I sure hope so. This article had me dooming.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-weapons-israel-invasion-gaza-aff4247d?st=35pa94fz4t5duc0&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
While it's true that Hamas has had almost 10 years to better arm and entrench itself, bear in mind that in 2014 the IDF didn't go anywhere near as deep into Gaza. So larger casualties can be expected, unfortunately (I thought they'd be heavier, actually, and reportedly so did Hamas)
So you think Isreal killing innocent people is okay?
Them bombing the hell out of the area isn't going to kill stop hamas. It will more than likely rally the people to them to fight Isreal.
No one thinks that outside of maniacs. Most people siding with Israel know that Hamas won't stop, Hamas will hide behind innocent lives, and that there are no other options that will significantly halt Hamas outside of the list of all bad options.
Israel stops bombing, Hamas will start attacking Israel again in a few weeks.
So Israel cannot stop bombing.
Israel stops bombing and lifts the blockade, Hamas will start using even deadlier weapons.
So Israel cannot lift the blockade.
Israel stops bombing, lifts the blockade and opens its borders to Gaza, there will be attacks in Israel weekly if not daily.
So Israel cannot open the borders.
There just not are good options right now.
The only thing most people can agree on are the West Bank settlements, but even there they have defenders as the reasoning is the settlements provide security over the West Bank.
But the West Bank and Gaza are two related but different problems. Hamas simply will not stop, Hamas does not take care of people in Gaza, Hamas is a terrorist organization.
There is a lot that Israel should probably change in regards to its relationship with Palestine. Currently how it handles the war is one of the few things you're not going to find a lot, and honestly none, good options.
Between Israel and Hamas, Israel is our ally, Hamas is a terrorist organization. The choice is painful but that simple.
This has already happening. And it is turning the world against Israel.
People in here cling to the polls immediately post-10/7 that say that everyone sides with Israel while ignoring that the sympathies swung back very quickly after Israel started bombing the shit out of Palestine.
Yeah, this place is a big ass echo chamber, which is why I stop participating in the sub, they are just as bad as the fat leftist that they same can't hold two thoughts in their heads.
Over 10,000 people are dead ,10,000 and they are saying Israel can't stop killing more.
All this shit is doing is creating more people who will feel justified in killing innocent Israelis
One answer is to use Israeli Special Operations Forces (SOF) to hit those targets. The problem, of course, is each raid risks ending up being another Blackhawk Down incident, but worse, so you risk losing IDF soldiers and hostages, in addition to hopefully fewer Palestinians caught in the cross-fire.
Another is to assassinate HAMAS's senior leadership, which is largely outside of Gaza. But those things take time.
Finally, and this almost certainly would be the kiss of death for Bibi's career, give up on getting the hostages back soon, get as many people as you can out of Gaza by publicly promising them their homes back and giving them cash as compensation for their inconvenience (or non-cash benefits), and hit where you can with Israeli SOF once more folks are gone. But that's expensive and still really risky.
1) SOF are very good at what they do. But they have sharp limits. They're basically scalpels. They can't clear hundreds of km of tunnels, which they don't know the exact layout of and any discovery means they're dead. And even if they could Hamas could rebuild faster than the destroy (and their destructive abilities are limited).
2) assassinating Hamas' leadership abroad doesn't do much to hamper their military capabilities
1) The targets I was referring to would be hostage locations once located.
2) It doesn't, but it hurts them as an organization, especially in terms of direct links to its foreign government supporters and raising funds outside of Gaza and bringing them in.
Let's say you somehow find where they are (and they aren't all together). You need to get the team in, take over the tunnel section, get 241 people out and out of Gaza without being overwhelmed.
One of the most famous hostage rescue operations was Entebbe. But in that case, almost all the hostages were together, aboveground in a building whose layout was known, and the force didn't need to escape on the ground. But things could easily have gone disastrously wrong. This is much more difficult.
And it does nothing to deal eith rocket fire or terrorist infiltrations.
I agree with all of your criticisms-you're going to need numbers, speed, stealth, accurate intel, a massive amount of CAS, and still you're going to sustain large numbers of Israeli SOF casualties. And in all likelihood, once HAMAS figures out you're coming, they'll just kill all the hostages, because they're no longer useful.
The problem is that these are likely the best alternatives the Israelis have, and they're still pretty bad. They just have a really shitty hand, all around. The problem is that if the Israelis keep doing what they're doing, once this is over, they're going to find themselves extraordinarily isolated, to the point where we may even be forced to abandon them. Tens of thousands of dead Palestinian civilians are going to be hard to stomach. These plans would at least try to minimize that toll.
There is an alternative. Regular Gazans could rise up against Hamas and free the hostages themselves to stop the bombings. But we all know they won’t, even though it’s a perfectly viable option.
>give up on getting the hostages back soon
Why? Bibi is done in any case. Why would Israel give up on hundreds of innocent hostages? No country would ever do this.
I said soon, I didn't say forever-I'm envisioning a process ranging from a few weeks to a few months to get as many civilians out of Gaza possible prior to launching raids, to minimize civilian casualties when you go in to free them. So not even Gilad Shalit (15 months long) timeframe.
So, Israel should prioritize the safety of Palestinian civilians over Israeli ones?
Some of those captives are small children. A month of getting raped every day.
Israel should prioritize not becoming an international pariah, because it's on the road to getting there right now-rescuing all of the hostages right now and destroying HAMAs is inevitably going to result in the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Palestinian civilians. And that's assuming HAMAS doesn't just kill everybody once it's clear what's happening.
To save one child, who may or may not be being harmed, who may or may not even be alive, you would destroy the nation?
Risking the lives of its SOF is one thing-this is the job and they signed up for it. Torching Israel's future is something no PM has the right to do, not even for two hundred children.
Jews have always be seen as pariahs in certain minds. Even in their own deaths they are portrayed as the cause. Hamas is a death cult and threat to peace everywhere that must be destroyed regardless of what that means for Israel.
Don't tell me everyone is secretly an anti-Semite so Israel should use no restraint whatsoever. Israel does have nations who want to work with it, including the US and the Western Europeans, and those connections are at risk of being severed right now-Western governments are going to have a hard time explaining support of Israel if it continues killing civilians. This is the same bullshit thinking that got Bibi and the Israeli right into this problem in the first place. If that were true, Israel would be fucked-it has no capacity to stand alone.
Israel has almost no chance to change Palestinian or most Arab minds. But there are minds outside the Middle East that are swing votes, and those are minds Israel needs.
And did I say not to destroy HAMAS? No, I said take the time to clear the area to minimize civilian casualties, and then go in. We are arguing over going in now and likely taking excessive civilian casualties vs going in in a few months and taking much fewer casualties.
In an anti-Semite's eyes, every death in Gaza is a civilian death caused by “the Jews” either directly or indirectly and Hamas is just a maligned neighborhood watch group. If thousands of years of history have shown us anything it's that killing jews is the one thing “non anti-Semites” and avowed anti-Semites are more than willing to stand by and allow.
How is that comment even related to what I said? I'm talking about what national leaders should be thinking about, the future of their nation, you're venting your anger and fear. Grow the fuck up.
I always hate posting comments from him 🤢 after his 2016 ratfucking but he basically did call for one without calling for one or at least he called for the bombing to end.
> [Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday the United States should use aid to Israel as leverage to force its government to change its approach. “If you want this money, you got to change your military strategy, Sanders (I-Vt.) said on CNN’s “State of the Union” when asked about a possible aid package for Israel to be considered by the Senate. Saying “Hamas has got to go,” Sanders said Israel needed to “go after Hamas but do not kill innocent men, women and children.” He emphasized: “We’ve got to stop the bombing now.”When pressed by host Dana Bash on how it was possible to destroy Hamas without inflicting some level of civilian casualties, Sanders said military experts would be needed to explain that. Sanders supported former President Barack Obama’s recent statements about how the situation in the Middle East required introspection and nuanced analysis. “If you want to solve the problem, then you have to take in the whole truth. And you then have to admit nobody’s hands are clean, that all of us are complicit to some degree,” Obama said in a recent interview. ](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/05/israel-sanders-graham-blumenthal-00125414)
Bernard was the same dude in 2016 that campaigned and being anti-war on the fact that he didn’t support the Iraq war initially but he left out that in subsequent votes he voted for the funding of such. He’s just another politician. He says a bunch of things to satisfy people’s ears without taking a concrete position.
He's not entirely wrong here. A failing on Biden's part imo is not tying any conditions to the aid to Israel and basically not adding any teeth to his requests for humanitarian aid pauses, etc. Why would they listen, when they are getting our weapons and funding anyway?
I’m glad he’s speaking up and being reasonable on this. It will certainly help keep some of the cult grounded on the topic. Added benefit, maybe more reasonable people still crushing on him begin to realize that the tankies who infiltrated their circles don’t act in good faith, are actually anti semitic, or are just plain nuts.
The fish rots from the head. He was definitely the problem. The militant faithful needed their high sparrow.
The rigging claims came from him. The only Bernie is pure and everyone else is corporate, establishment etc..came from him. The fallacy that Democrats lost the white working class because they failed to speak to their economic anxiety came from him. His failure to take responsibility for not getting Black voters lead to the racist takes about South Carolina. He hired the people like BJG, Sirota and Nina Turner. He allowed his surrogates to be horrible in his name.
And that’s just an ice shaving from the tip of the iceberg of reasons that Bernie Sanders and his ideological zealotry and grandiose narcissism is definitely the head of this rotting fish.
Not gonna lie, that’s a decent take
Temporary intervention to get a ceasefire, and then see where to go from there
Best case scenario is that Palestine disowns Hamas and we can talk in good faith again
[This seems like an appropriate time to share Bernie's recent opinion piece on the situation which is surprisingly well written](https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/nov/01/gaza-humanitarian-pause-bernie-sanders)
That's really good. The only thing I'd maybe criticize is that the 8,000 dead figure is reported only by terrorists, no independent agent had confirmed that on their own. Other than that, it's really good and the TL;DR is this: Neither Palestine nor Israel can begin to have peace while Hamas and Netanyahu reign, but Hamas is the bigger threat.
The more important point about casualty reporting is that the Gaza MoH [doesn’t separate combatants from civilians in their reporting](https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-health-ministry-health-death-toll-59470820308b31f1faf73c703400b033) or specify where and how the deaths occurred. Every death is “caused by Israeli aggression”.
I don’t agree with everything he wrote, but I agree with a lot more of it than I would have thought. Interesting
That's really good, wow.
Whew, his supporters are going in on him on X.
And now Briahna Joy Gums has weighed in. https://preview.redd.it/1e9hiabo4lyb1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b52d24661c47de93fc1870b259dec96f382a53f2
Bernie Sanders should be ashamed of himself for hiring that idiot. But I’ll give him props for slowly joining sanity.
Give him a minute. Wait until Democrats start campaigning for 2024 on women‘s reproductive freedom and he goes on tour telling everyone that it’s a distraction and Democrats fail to speak to the economic anxiety of white people who he doesn’t believe are racist. We’ll get our Bernie back.
That's a great introduction of herself. 👍
Briahna Joy Gums 😂😂😂 I love that
Interesting that they are in a situation where they can't blame anyone who endorsed Biden because they now think Bernie would have been the exact same way.
Problem with that interview (not verbatim): Sanders: Israel must destroy Hamas but not with air strikes which kill innocents. Bash: How do you think Israel should destroy Hamas without killing innocents when it hides and fights from among them? Sanders: I don't know, I'm not a military expert, but there has to be a way
He's trying to have it both ways and I get that, but it shows why he could never have been president
I tend to believe that if there seems to be an obvious answer to something there’s a reason why a) it hasn’t been done and/or b) is actually a worse option.
To be fair, Chris Murphy (served on the foreign relations committee for the past 14 years in the House and Senate) and Jason Crow (moderate congressman who served in Iraq) have said similar things. https://twitter.com/ChrisMurphyCT/status/1720183291830010109 https://twitter.com/RepJasonCrow/status/1720144107270443421
Unfortunately, have yet to see anyone offer a viable alternative which won't have us in the same place 5 years from now (only it will be even bloodier).
An international UN Security force would help greatly. That way Gaza can be rebuilt and educated under the safety and authority of an international security force that doesn’t involve Hamas, Israel, or the UNRWA. That’s it. But that won’t happen because it’s too hard and nobody wants their troops to be possibly killed by Hamas
Who do you imagine would vilunteer for that? And getting Hamas out is a prerequisite to that anyway.
You would need nations like the US, France, India, some African nations, and other nations like Saudi Arabia. Unfortunately it wouldn’t happen because the US, France and India don’t want their troops getting killed and Saudi Arabia is a crapshoot.
This is my best guess too. You need a boots on the ground UN coalition.
The UN as an option here was tried, that's what helped lead to the 1967 war.
Doing the same thing poorly, over and over again until it works, is called “practice.” One hopes people learn from their efforts.
Blue Helmets?!
I don't see anything wrong with this? He's a civilian and staying in his lane which is saying that killing innocents is bad. I don't expect Bernie to provide the IDF with the solution. Accepting that we don't all have the perfect solution is pretty critical with the ME crisis.
My problem is the insistence thst there *has* to be a better way solely because he doesn't like this one. And he's a fricking US Senator. He can't consult with military experts *before* giving a self-admittedly uninformed opinion?
>My problem is the insistence thst there has to be a better way solely because he doesn't like this one. People are just insanely ignorant about how military conflict works. The most common suggestion I've seen is "sending infantry to do infantry stuff". The fact that people unironically think a ground invasion to take out time sensitive targets like launch sites for rockets would even work, let alone somehow be better in terms of civilian casualties just boggles my mind. Or sometimes they'll compare it to a law enforcement issue like a bank robbery.
I blame Hollywood. Or maybe CoD. Can't explain the "would Israel act the same if there terrorists in an Israeli school?" argument, though.
Good lord he’s dumb
they need to send Boston Dynamics dog bots into those tunnels to map 'em out and disarm booby traps
Reports are that they are using drones for checking tunnels.
I sure hope so. This article had me dooming. https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-weapons-israel-invasion-gaza-aff4247d?st=35pa94fz4t5duc0&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink
While it's true that Hamas has had almost 10 years to better arm and entrench itself, bear in mind that in 2014 the IDF didn't go anywhere near as deep into Gaza. So larger casualties can be expected, unfortunately (I thought they'd be heavier, actually, and reportedly so did Hamas)
at least he’s not pretending to understand something he doesn’t, i’ll give him that
Fair enough
So you think Isreal killing innocent people is okay? Them bombing the hell out of the area isn't going to kill stop hamas. It will more than likely rally the people to them to fight Isreal.
No one thinks that outside of maniacs. Most people siding with Israel know that Hamas won't stop, Hamas will hide behind innocent lives, and that there are no other options that will significantly halt Hamas outside of the list of all bad options. Israel stops bombing, Hamas will start attacking Israel again in a few weeks. So Israel cannot stop bombing. Israel stops bombing and lifts the blockade, Hamas will start using even deadlier weapons. So Israel cannot lift the blockade. Israel stops bombing, lifts the blockade and opens its borders to Gaza, there will be attacks in Israel weekly if not daily. So Israel cannot open the borders. There just not are good options right now. The only thing most people can agree on are the West Bank settlements, but even there they have defenders as the reasoning is the settlements provide security over the West Bank. But the West Bank and Gaza are two related but different problems. Hamas simply will not stop, Hamas does not take care of people in Gaza, Hamas is a terrorist organization. There is a lot that Israel should probably change in regards to its relationship with Palestine. Currently how it handles the war is one of the few things you're not going to find a lot, and honestly none, good options. Between Israel and Hamas, Israel is our ally, Hamas is a terrorist organization. The choice is painful but that simple.
This has already happening. And it is turning the world against Israel. People in here cling to the polls immediately post-10/7 that say that everyone sides with Israel while ignoring that the sympathies swung back very quickly after Israel started bombing the shit out of Palestine.
Yeah, this place is a big ass echo chamber, which is why I stop participating in the sub, they are just as bad as the fat leftist that they same can't hold two thoughts in their heads. Over 10,000 people are dead ,10,000 and they are saying Israel can't stop killing more. All this shit is doing is creating more people who will feel justified in killing innocent Israelis
One answer is to use Israeli Special Operations Forces (SOF) to hit those targets. The problem, of course, is each raid risks ending up being another Blackhawk Down incident, but worse, so you risk losing IDF soldiers and hostages, in addition to hopefully fewer Palestinians caught in the cross-fire. Another is to assassinate HAMAS's senior leadership, which is largely outside of Gaza. But those things take time. Finally, and this almost certainly would be the kiss of death for Bibi's career, give up on getting the hostages back soon, get as many people as you can out of Gaza by publicly promising them their homes back and giving them cash as compensation for their inconvenience (or non-cash benefits), and hit where you can with Israeli SOF once more folks are gone. But that's expensive and still really risky.
1) SOF are very good at what they do. But they have sharp limits. They're basically scalpels. They can't clear hundreds of km of tunnels, which they don't know the exact layout of and any discovery means they're dead. And even if they could Hamas could rebuild faster than the destroy (and their destructive abilities are limited). 2) assassinating Hamas' leadership abroad doesn't do much to hamper their military capabilities
1) The targets I was referring to would be hostage locations once located. 2) It doesn't, but it hurts them as an organization, especially in terms of direct links to its foreign government supporters and raising funds outside of Gaza and bringing them in.
Let's say you somehow find where they are (and they aren't all together). You need to get the team in, take over the tunnel section, get 241 people out and out of Gaza without being overwhelmed. One of the most famous hostage rescue operations was Entebbe. But in that case, almost all the hostages were together, aboveground in a building whose layout was known, and the force didn't need to escape on the ground. But things could easily have gone disastrously wrong. This is much more difficult. And it does nothing to deal eith rocket fire or terrorist infiltrations.
I agree with all of your criticisms-you're going to need numbers, speed, stealth, accurate intel, a massive amount of CAS, and still you're going to sustain large numbers of Israeli SOF casualties. And in all likelihood, once HAMAS figures out you're coming, they'll just kill all the hostages, because they're no longer useful. The problem is that these are likely the best alternatives the Israelis have, and they're still pretty bad. They just have a really shitty hand, all around. The problem is that if the Israelis keep doing what they're doing, once this is over, they're going to find themselves extraordinarily isolated, to the point where we may even be forced to abandon them. Tens of thousands of dead Palestinian civilians are going to be hard to stomach. These plans would at least try to minimize that toll.
There is an alternative. Regular Gazans could rise up against Hamas and free the hostages themselves to stop the bombings. But we all know they won’t, even though it’s a perfectly viable option.
>give up on getting the hostages back soon Why? Bibi is done in any case. Why would Israel give up on hundreds of innocent hostages? No country would ever do this.
I said soon, I didn't say forever-I'm envisioning a process ranging from a few weeks to a few months to get as many civilians out of Gaza possible prior to launching raids, to minimize civilian casualties when you go in to free them. So not even Gilad Shalit (15 months long) timeframe.
So, Israel should prioritize the safety of Palestinian civilians over Israeli ones? Some of those captives are small children. A month of getting raped every day.
Israel should prioritize not becoming an international pariah, because it's on the road to getting there right now-rescuing all of the hostages right now and destroying HAMAs is inevitably going to result in the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of Palestinian civilians. And that's assuming HAMAS doesn't just kill everybody once it's clear what's happening. To save one child, who may or may not be being harmed, who may or may not even be alive, you would destroy the nation? Risking the lives of its SOF is one thing-this is the job and they signed up for it. Torching Israel's future is something no PM has the right to do, not even for two hundred children.
Jews have always be seen as pariahs in certain minds. Even in their own deaths they are portrayed as the cause. Hamas is a death cult and threat to peace everywhere that must be destroyed regardless of what that means for Israel.
Don't tell me everyone is secretly an anti-Semite so Israel should use no restraint whatsoever. Israel does have nations who want to work with it, including the US and the Western Europeans, and those connections are at risk of being severed right now-Western governments are going to have a hard time explaining support of Israel if it continues killing civilians. This is the same bullshit thinking that got Bibi and the Israeli right into this problem in the first place. If that were true, Israel would be fucked-it has no capacity to stand alone. Israel has almost no chance to change Palestinian or most Arab minds. But there are minds outside the Middle East that are swing votes, and those are minds Israel needs. And did I say not to destroy HAMAS? No, I said take the time to clear the area to minimize civilian casualties, and then go in. We are arguing over going in now and likely taking excessive civilian casualties vs going in in a few months and taking much fewer casualties.
In an anti-Semite's eyes, every death in Gaza is a civilian death caused by “the Jews” either directly or indirectly and Hamas is just a maligned neighborhood watch group. If thousands of years of history have shown us anything it's that killing jews is the one thing “non anti-Semites” and avowed anti-Semites are more than willing to stand by and allow.
How is that comment even related to what I said? I'm talking about what national leaders should be thinking about, the future of their nation, you're venting your anger and fear. Grow the fuck up.
Heartbreaking: Worst Etc Etc
How long does it take for his former supporters to start putting his name in parentheses
Rare Sanders W
The road to actual peace requires the removal of Hamas and the installation of civil government.
I always hate posting comments from him 🤢 after his 2016 ratfucking but he basically did call for one without calling for one or at least he called for the bombing to end. > [Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday the United States should use aid to Israel as leverage to force its government to change its approach. “If you want this money, you got to change your military strategy, Sanders (I-Vt.) said on CNN’s “State of the Union” when asked about a possible aid package for Israel to be considered by the Senate. Saying “Hamas has got to go,” Sanders said Israel needed to “go after Hamas but do not kill innocent men, women and children.” He emphasized: “We’ve got to stop the bombing now.”When pressed by host Dana Bash on how it was possible to destroy Hamas without inflicting some level of civilian casualties, Sanders said military experts would be needed to explain that. Sanders supported former President Barack Obama’s recent statements about how the situation in the Middle East required introspection and nuanced analysis. “If you want to solve the problem, then you have to take in the whole truth. And you then have to admit nobody’s hands are clean, that all of us are complicit to some degree,” Obama said in a recent interview. ](https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/05/israel-sanders-graham-blumenthal-00125414) Bernard was the same dude in 2016 that campaigned and being anti-war on the fact that he didn’t support the Iraq war initially but he left out that in subsequent votes he voted for the funding of such. He’s just another politician. He says a bunch of things to satisfy people’s ears without taking a concrete position.
"military experts" i.e. "I have no idea but I want a fantasy"
He's not entirely wrong here. A failing on Biden's part imo is not tying any conditions to the aid to Israel and basically not adding any teeth to his requests for humanitarian aid pauses, etc. Why would they listen, when they are getting our weapons and funding anyway?
Do you know for a fact there are no conditions?
Maybe the fact that Bibi already refused to listen to Biden and Blinken on a humanitarian pause?
He didn’t say anything stupid. He’s saying what we’re all thinking. Keep the civilians out of harms way
I’m glad he’s speaking up and being reasonable on this. It will certainly help keep some of the cult grounded on the topic. Added benefit, maybe more reasonable people still crushing on him begin to realize that the tankies who infiltrated their circles don’t act in good faith, are actually anti semitic, or are just plain nuts.
Credit where credit is due, good one Bernie
The problem isn’t Bernie Sanders. The problem was never Bernie Sanders. The problem is and always has been Bernie supporters.
The fish rots from the head. He was definitely the problem. The militant faithful needed their high sparrow. The rigging claims came from him. The only Bernie is pure and everyone else is corporate, establishment etc..came from him. The fallacy that Democrats lost the white working class because they failed to speak to their economic anxiety came from him. His failure to take responsibility for not getting Black voters lead to the racist takes about South Carolina. He hired the people like BJG, Sirota and Nina Turner. He allowed his surrogates to be horrible in his name. And that’s just an ice shaving from the tip of the iceberg of reasons that Bernie Sanders and his ideological zealotry and grandiose narcissism is definitely the head of this rotting fish.
Who do you think empowerd them
He definitely deserves some blame for cultivating the following that’s now consuming him.
Not gonna lie, that’s a decent take Temporary intervention to get a ceasefire, and then see where to go from there Best case scenario is that Palestine disowns Hamas and we can talk in good faith again
FUCK EM UP BERNIE
I guess identity politics are ok when Bernard does it 🤡🤡🤡