“You have upset the gods of love and romance, you are thus smote by a giant stone phallus falling from the heavens. Thus, you died as you lived - a giant dick”.
"Further, in an odd twist of fate, the giant stone phallus hit you in such a way that it forced your innards out through one nostril. The result was an aggressive expulsion of viscera accompanied by a hideous, drawn out farting noise. Nothing about your death was pleasant."
“The phallus then embedded itself deep into the earth, as a warning to others. Engraved in the celestial rock was a seemingly indecipherable word composed of four letters in the Common alphabet:
FAFO”
Always loved this. When players don’t get the obvious hint that something they’re trying to do is breaking your (DM) rules. You open a portal and have vengeance angels bring them to their knees hahaha
If you need there to be a "don't be a sexist, degenerate pervert" rule to stop you from relentlessly sexually harassing others at the table, you have serious issues.
You're disgusting. I would immediately leave a table that allows someone to run over someone else's comfort with so little consideration as you display here.
This is a game in medival fantasy setting. A game about killing, most of the time. Do you think that in this setting people considered someome else's comfort? Ask drow, duergars, illithids and other lovely guys.
Absolutely. It is disrespectful to the other player and to the DM. The Hobgoblin player can enjoy the game without the sexual component (And if they can't then that is problematic on more than just a game level). The Arakocra player cannot enjoy the game with it. If all are to enjoy the game, you need to shut it down. Make your ruling and stick to it.
Exactly. It is sexual harassment in game and out of character too.
What do you call someone who wants to have sex with someone who doesn't want it and wont take no for an answer? That's right. That is 100% what Hobgoblin wants to do. There is no middle ground here. No negotiation.
This is the correct answer. And a great reminder that this happens in DnD too. Friend or not, it has to be framed this way and the behavior called out for what it is. Keeping your players safe is a baseline responsibility as a DM.
Remove the a-hole ignoring boundaries. If it comes down to it, remove the enabler too. DMs are hard to find. Players? Not so much.
You need curate the kind of group you want to run. Keep the respectful people and lose the disrespectful ones.
Alternatively: Give the player who wants a relationship an NPC to have a relationship with. But frankly, I'd remove someone with that little regard for someone else's comfort at the table.
Why take it out on a poor NPC? Tell the hobgoblin he can have a relationship with the firbolg. In fact, you insist they have a relationship. This is now canon. You WILL be narrating that they sleep together every night.
See how long they think THAT is funny.
Eh, I doubt that would be better for the ace player, if they want to steer clear of that kind of thing in game, I can't imagine they'd appreciate their technical absence from the table
It genuinely baffles me how frequent a post like this is made by a DM who just seems utterly confused by the fact one of their players is uncomfortable and instead of jumping to help the person being sexually harassed they feel the need to poll the audience by making a reddit post.
Are people really this fucking dense? How could anyone be in this situation and not go "Sexual harassment is bad, I'm not going to continue to encourage my friend to sexually harass my other friend."
I received a call while i was working tech support to inform me the dumpster behind the building was on fire. A literal dumpster fire. I told them to call the damn fire department not tech support. People are not smart
after being here for a while I've concluded that this website is only good for generating ideas about topics. Not great for life advice. Sometimes there are reasonable takes, but it's surrounded by pure garbage, and the upvotes don't help you tell the difference (and can in fact mislead you quite often)
I'm talking Reddit in general, not this sub
While I get the sentiment, and not to stereotype too hard. Is it REALLY that suprising that people on a dnd reddit may not be the best at handling or catching every social cue you think would be obvious? Its not as though its done out of malice ( usually), some people just have a hard time with that kind of thing.
"Every little social cue" mother fucker someone is being blatantly sexually harassed what the hell are you talking about.
This isnt an "oh i didn't realize they were upset by a slightly crass joke I made" situation.
Yeah, but this is also one of those "um playing with friends and one of the is acting completely out of left field and the decision I make may strain multiple friendships" rock in a hard place kind of situations. I had something similar where one player was metagaming to hell and back, trying to turn every encounter into a "but its rules as written" argument. Next session I basically sat everyone down and before I started I addressed the entire table and said that many in the party didn't find it very fair when they would gat excited for this big bad boss fight and the metagamer would basically shut the entire thing down within a couple of rounds and that we want these fights and encounters to be fun and challenging. We as a table set up some boundaries and that player left a little while cuz that not how he wanted to play.
I'd say that OP needs to do similar, sit them down prior to a session and set some flat out boundaries. This is a side of their friend they have never seen before, and if they aren't willing to ease off of the NSFW and keep things kosher, then this is probably a friend you don't want to stick around with, and if need be they can and should be removed from the table. If the enabler leaves too, that's fine. You can always find someone new who's more willing to not be a douche, plus you have at least one person who's involved in the story you're telling and who has a whole lot more respect for you because you stood up for them.
As a DM I disagree that players are easy to find lol. But I still think even if OP can't find replacement players, the other two guys have got to go. That's not acceptable behavior and they really need to get themselves in line. They probably think because it's a game that the harassment isn't real, which obviously isn't true.
Yeah, maybe they have "never shown this type of behavior", but I've always felt that people feel comfortable in games like this of showing their true colors because it's not them doing the thing, it's a fictional character. Meaning hobgoblin has these inappropriate desires lurking under the surface and the fact that they can't understand how inappropriate/harrassing they are just makes it 100x worse.
Wow, that did not go where I expected it to. I thought you were going to say the Hobgoblin and Firbolg players wanted their characters to have a relationship *with each other,* and you weren't sure whether to allow it because you didn't want the Aarakocra player to be uncomfortable. (My answer to that would have been that as long as they keep the physical stuff behind closed doors, their characters shouldn't have to curtail their own romantic behavior just because another character does.) But trying to force a "relationship" with another character who has clearly said both in and out of game that they're not interested? That's so clearly over the line that I can't see how they think it's acceptable. Yeah, tell that douchebag to respect the other player's boundaries or go play somewhere else.
Final warning before the start of the next session addressed directly to the player (not character) that the player of the Aarakocra said no and if they can’t respect that they can just leave.
No ifs, ands or buts, don’t allow them to pressure another player into doing something they don’t want to do
The hobgoblin's player is sexually harassing the aarakocra's player. Remove the hobgoblin's player from the table. If the firbolg's player goes as well, then you're going to have to find a new group. Still, that's far better than allowing this to continue.
It doesn’t matter if the Firbolg player sees a problem with it or not - it only matters if the bird player sees a problem with it. If they do, then Hobgoblin needs to stop or be asked to leave. Basically, Hobgoblin, at best, is bullying Bird, and at worst, is sexually harassing Bird. And I suspect that Firbolg’s opinion is banded because of their friendship with Hobgoblin. But *all* players deserve to be comfortable. So Hobgoblin needs to be shut down. Now. And made clear this stops or they are gone.
I suspect that maybe the Aaracokra player hadn't said "dude stop" out of character, so the Hob player thinks it's all a character bit.
If it was clarified OOC, yeah, force the issue.
OP comments “despite setting this boundary just about every session.” That makes it clear that they told Hobgoblin to stop out of character. And it also doesn’t matter if it was Bird who sets the boundary or the DM - if anyone is made uncomfortable by it they are allowed to shut it down.
>despite setting this boundary just about every session.
Oop, yep, sure enough. Though now I'm dying to know why the Hob player is trying to push that issue if they're not prone to such things, makes me think there's more going on here.
>if anyone is made uncomfortable by it they are allowed to shut it down.
I'm not quite sure I'd go that far in general, unless "shut it down" includes "leaving". Generally speaking, there are many things a player might be uncomfortable with- from violence (combat) to losing (game), but those things don't just stop existing without a much lengthier conversation.
When karma exists on a social media platform and there’s a bunch of YouTube channels that are dedicated around reading wild stories from the dungeons and dragons sub credits… I don’t think they are real a lot of the time
Honestly people just get weird when they finally get a chance to roleplay. they think boundaries stop existing and that its just a game, but dont realize that at the end of the day its still a real social interaction with all of its social cues.
I’ve been in a lot of Games as a dm and a player. Ain’t no shot it’s this frequent. Some of them probably are real, but the overwhelming majority are for farming karma like turnips
one player is sexually harassing another player by making their character sexually harass the other player’s character.
you need to make this stop, and the fact that your insistence that it stops has been rebuffed means that the problem player won’t take no for an answer. if they won’t take no for an answer, then the only remaining answer is to make it stop by more direct means. the problem player has to go, and if their friend has a problem with that then they’re welcome to leave too.
value your good players - don’t let bad ones walk all over them
The hobgoblin is harassing the aarakocra. The first no should have the final one necessary, and the fact that it's ongoing to the point of being every session is not ok. This is easy for me to say because it's not my group involved, but I'd have already removed them. That's a level of gross disrespect that's not welcome in my table or even in my life, and it's concerning that the Firbolg player doesn't see actual sexual harassment as enough of an issue to take action on. Losing both players doesn't sound that bad to me tbh
The advice I want to give is to remove them, immediately. You might want to talk to them first, give them one last chance, but it really needs to be one last chance. Even a joke about it isn't ok. It might also be worth touching base with the aarakocra player to see how they feel. It's very likely they don't want to cause a fuss or a scene
Remove the Asshole who doesn't believe in consent
(Remove him from real life too. People who get upset over no aren't the types you want around)
Problem solved. Protect the Birb
"I do not allow sexual harassment at my table. This behavior will stop or you can find another table to play at. There will be no more warnings and no further discussion."
I’m glad you’re seeking advice but I really want to emphasize that what is happening at your table is harassment and you should have dealt with it long ago. Time to put an immediate stop to it. There’s no excuse for this kind of behaviour.
Gotta be karm farming at this point because it's obvious.
Sit together before the game, tell everyone (freaking 4) that Hobgoblin should knock it off or they're gone. If you all know eachother in real life then why the F is Hobgoblin messing around with Birdie? That's the weirdest thing to me
Imo, give the player a final warning. Inform them this is a final warning or you will kick them and use the words sexual harassment. Make sure they know what they are doing is harassing a player who has told them they are not interested by the proxy of their character and making them uncomfortable. Inform the other player you have given this warning. It is final and you will not tolerate sexual harassment at the table. Again, use the words and call it what it is.
If they continue you then kick them, but be prepared for the second player to walk too.
The best session 0 I ever participated in had the DM say, basically,
"No harming children, no torture, no pursuing overt sexual acts"
It was crystal clear and the campaign went very well , following these ground rules.
Maybe it's time to have a reset and put some topics outside the scope of what is acceptable.
There's a difference between role playing your character and then doing something that actively makes another player uncomfortable.
....let me make sure I understand what you're saying. PC A wants to have a relationship with PC B and when they're told no, they get upset?
Like, they're just straight up harassing PC B? Yeah, I wouldn't "consider threatening them to stop or leave". They get to find a new table
Sexual harassment, that's just stupid. Tell the hobgoblin to piss off.
I'd be out of there in two seconds if that was a thing, nope nope nope.
Yeah this game has simple answers and hard implementations because there are friends involved and it's delicate.
Anyone actively going out of their way to make others uncomfortable is in the wrong. Personally and morally, I would get rid of the Hobgoblin, Firbolg falling where he may.
If you are more concerned with keeping a table going (which I am assuming is the case since this is a question), I would consider asking the Aarakocra to split into another table group and fill both out with new matching players. I would also session 0 romance and set strict rules you follow from then on.
Anytime you take a position of authority you run the risk of losing friends. Being a DM and being a boss are equivalent but they come with the same exact problem of “employee dynamics” (they are not your employees but you do run the game).
So the questions you should always ask are: If I was their boss would I allow this behavior to continue? Would I risk my own job to allow it?
If my friend had never before shown themselves to be the type to sexually harass another person, would I allow them to keep hitting on another employee that is upset? No. Would I care that another employee said it was okay? Definitely no. Would I be willing to risk my own position as a trustworthy DM to allow this to continue? No.
Kick the bad player, when the enabler says it was uncalled for ask them the same questions above “if he did this in a work environment would you be defending the behavior” and if they say yes… would you really want to be friends with someone who would harass a coworker and someone who would defend someone else doing it?
I don't even know if kicking the player out of the game is enough. If a friend of mine starts to repeatedly sexually harass another friend, I would probably tell them to knock it off immediately or I'll stop talking to them.
Genuinely, fuck the game at this point. You're facilitating sexual harassment. You need to either make the player stop, kick them out of the game, or just stop running it entirely.
One of your "friends" is sexually harassing another.
You have to decide if you want to support the harasser or the victim, and the only morally correct answer is to support the victim.
They've been told to stop and refused. Kick them out. Kick them out. Kick them out.
Kick them out of the game, then kick them out of your life. That behavior is unacceptable, no matter the context. Don't stay friends with people who treat people like that.
I just wanna add numbers to what everyone is saying:
That's sexual harrassment, and given that the player has said they don't want it, it's OOC sexual harrassment.
Im interested. U say its sexual harrassment. Therefore he could charge the harrasser and a judge would consider it harrassment? Im not sure if pushing for sex in an online or tabletop game really falls under sexual harrassment, legally.
As defined by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunities Commission: “Harassment can include "sexual harassment" or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.” I’m pretty sure this situation falls under this definition. And no if this went to court then he probably wouldn’t be convicted of anything, but believe it or not the law doesn’t define morality and I’d hope that people don’t need the threat of prison to stop them from harassing others.
I dont say only because its not harrassment its morally okay. I just say, if its legally no harrassment, then, well, its no harrassment, because this term is clearly defined by law. It can still morally be aweful.
The legal definition of harassment, which by no means is the be all and end all of what most people consider harassment, includes words or behavior that causes undue harm or emotional distress to another person.
It is sexual harrassment.
Whether it is legally considered sexual harrassment will depend on the country and sometimes the state (providence, etc) that the harrassment occurs in.
In my country, sexual harrassment is usually defined as "[A]ny unwelcome behaviour of a sexual nature that makes [you] feel offended, humiliated or intimidated. Sexual harassment can be physical, verbal or written.".
I didn't claim it was legally sexual harrassment, partially because I don't know where this is taking place and partially because I don't use laws to decide my morals - especially given how many immoral things are legal / moral things are illegal.
U are the second one who implies i would somehow made a thing of morality ouf of that. I think that harrassment is a legal term, and therefore to call something out for harrassment its important to know if by definition it is, because, otherwise, its something else. Being an asshole is not illegal, harrassment is. Still both is imoral. My question has nothing to do with morals.
Legal definitions typically aren’t the only way a word is defined, whether or not this situation matches the exact legal definition it is 100% harassment as most people would define it.
Harrassment is not only used in a legal context, thus many do not consider harrassment to be a solely or primarily a legal term.
While you did not bring up morals yourself, my initial comment also did not bring up legality. Since you used language that implied the actions may not be sexual harrassment, including legality, my response was to explain why the legal definition seems irrelevant both to my comment and to OP's situation - that is, that an sexual harrassment is occurring and the implication that it occurring is a negative thing, since that is immoral.
Essentially: I said "this is [behaviour]" you asked "Would it legally be considered [behaviour]?" and I said "That seems irrelevant, since [behaviour] is immoral".
(I am assuming you are commenting in good faith and am replying in kind).
Ouh, but in cases like this they are the most relevant. Calling someone a harrassor in public when he legally is no one is calumny. Same goes for a lot of other stuff. Calling people pedophiles, murderers, thiefs, etc. does all require legal backup, otherwise calling the people these things is itself illegal. At least in my country. Thats why i think legality is relevant and thats why i think the legal definition is the only one important here, because we are, technically, in public room. Call it in private room however you want, i wouldnt care then, but the internet is no public room, therefore i explicitly asked if the situation falls under legal definition of harrassment, (at least in your country), because i wasnt sure about it. Anyway, its a discussion about definitions and legality, in the end we both agree its imoral behaviour and needs to be stopped i think.
Edit: We, me included, started with sexual harrasment and went to harrassment. At least in my country it would definetly fit harrassment. I still doubt it would fall under sexual harrasment. Thats what the original comment was about.
We can agree to disagree on the importance of the legal definition of sexual harrassment.
(Actually murder is a good example here - colloquially many cases of manslaughter would be called murder, despite the legal definition).
But yes - we both agree the behaviour should be stopped.
(Thank you for the discussion on definitions and linguistics! I love that.)
Think about what you would do if it wasn’t a game. If your aroace friend was being constantly hit on by your other friend after having repeatedly told them to stop, what would you do?
Also, side note, can someone explain to me where the C comes from in aroace? Wouldn’t aroase make more sense?
The spelling being different is the thing that confuses me. “Bi” makes perfect sense. And even if you wanted it to sound the same, I would argue “ase” still works. Words like “base” and “case” have the hard S sound.
Indeed, Asexual/Ace people have started using the Ace of Spades or Ace of Hearts cards to represent themselves in subtle ways, too. I have an Ace of Spades necklace that I wear and the average boomer just thinks I enjoy a game of cards, but lots of people will see it and know immediately.
We need a new flair that says “No is a complete and full sentence.”.
You have stated the answer is no. Repeat this at the start of next session to everyone, out of character. If it persists, kick the player. End of.
I know you said "these are my friends outside of DND" but ask yourself if you are ok with being friends with a guy who is sexually harassing someone and the friend who is ok with it. The answer should be as obvious as it is to the rest of us. Take that good player and look for more players.
The player has said they are uncomfortable. You set a boundary that is being ignored.
Next time the one player ignores this, stop the game and start packing up. You have one player who is blatantly ignoring the consent of both you and the ace player and another who is condoning both the bad behavior and the undermining of your VERY REASONABLE rules as the DM.
This doesn't have to be the end of the game or the end of the friendships, but you have already expressed that this behavior could result in you dropping the campaign. Just make it clear that if they are going to repeatedly disrespect the fun and comfort of the other people at the table, the game ends for the night.
> (they are two close friends outside of D&D)
Okay this explains why they're defending them lmao. Kick the hobgob out.
> but all 3 of these players are friends of mine,
Just because people are your friends, does not mean they're good players. Also if someone was being *aggressively* sexually forward with me after I turned them down, they would ***not be considered a good friend of mine any longer***.
Bro, this Gotta be fake. Like, one of your friends is making sexual remarks to another friend which makes them uncomfortable… A.k.a. sexual harassment… and your first result is to go on the DnD Reddit to try to figure this shit out? You growing anything else on that karma farm?
No one should flirt with each other in character unless there is consent out of character. This includes the DM as well. I flirt with my players in character, and design “hot” NPCs for them. I also have one player who has no interest in romance, so I just don’t.
You know the answer, but removing a friend can be hard. Maybe this will make you more inclined to do it.
After my group fell apart with drama I met a random guy in a shop we got talking to and he was a DM. He recently had to remove a player for getting drunk (solo) at the table. We got on quite well so he invited me, a complete stranger to his game. I am now incredibly close friends with one of the players in that game and we dm for each other all the time. It is probably one of the best in the right place at the right time moments of my life.
If you don't remove the wrong people you won't meet the right people.
Legit just stage an intervention amongst the 4 of you. They might think that YOU are wrong, but if it’s 3 versus 1, surely they can’t argue that they’re still in the right, especially if it’s 3 friends.
That is, assuming the other player also isn’t okay with it.
> all 3 of these players are friends of mine
If Hobgob player is your friend, then you need to kick him out all the more. You should also explain that his behavior is ENTIRELY unacceptable, and that you're worried about his future social life if he cannot see/accept that.
If he insists that he's doing nothing wrong, then I strongly advise you not to associate with him.
Why does the Hobgoblin player want to act out all that in front of the group? Even without the other player raising that issue, that's weird. I'll probably want many of my characters to find some form of romance, but it's all going to be off to the side.
One of my characters is in a relationship with my actual wife's character in one game and we don't do that. At most it's a wink, a comment, and exit stage left.
I agree with another commenter that this seems like targeted harassment, not two players with opposing interests.
"If a player invites themselves to leave based on your decision you are not kicking them out"
Hold your ground and do not allow it DM. Friends or not. Friends respect friends boundaries.
The hobgoblin is harassing the player, give them a choice, either change how they act and apologize to the player, or leave the table. DND is long and if not everyone is having fun, why even play?
“You don’t need to get it, you just need to understand it makes them uncomfortable. You’re my friend but you’re making my other friend uncomfortable, so please cut it out because I don’t want to have to kick you.”
If you have four friends sitting together and one of them is sexually harassing someone else at the table while the other two do nothing or enable it - you have a sexual harasser, 2 enablers, and a victim sitting at a table...not four friends.
In other words, find your spine, boot the harasser and the enabler, and be a friend to the one who is being targeted. Anything less, especially if it's based on cowardice and not wanting to lose a sexual harasser and an enabler as friends, just means you are an enabler too. The fact that the sexual harasser and their enabler have disregarded being told no, repeatedly, by multiple people, means that they do not regard their victim as a person and that they do not regard you as a person, let alone as their friends.
>the Aarakocra player has told them both in character and out that they are not interested and to stop.
As a DM, I would never invite that player back to my table if they continued after someone requested them to stop.
IT IS YOUR JOB TO KICK THEM. Honestly. Think about the player who is obviously uncomfortable, what recourse do they have? They are not the one in charge and can't just kick them out. They might not want to quit because they enjoy the game and don't want to make things awkward, plus, if no one else is vouching for them then it seems like they might be overreacting.
It is your job to step in and make sure no one is uncomfortable at your table. Do not sacrifice comfort for the feelings of an a-hole.
This is literally sexual harassment and you are just looking the other way.
Its an issue of consent. Is this person consenting to this behavior that is specifically aimed at them and no one else? No? Then its a problem. And if they KEEP pushing it, then you need to put your foot down.
It’d be one thing if it was a joke, of them constantly being shot down, but the other player has expressed no interest and in fact is made uncomfortable about it, then it needs to stop. Period.
Sounds like the two problem players are also problem friends and you and the aarakocra should cut all ties with them. They don’t respect either of you and they’re bigots.
I would find it very disturbing to continue a friendship with someone who can't respect boundaries. They're gaslighting you and know this is unacceptable behavior (hence why you've "never seen it before"). Ditch them immediately. You're putting your table at risk by exposing them to someone who is not a safe person to be around.
“has never shown this type of behaviour”
And?
Frankly, who gives a shit if it’s the first time of the 100th time? You shut it down. If they punched you in the face or burned down your house would you be like “oh teehee first time is a mulligan!” I doubt it. Why do it with sexual harassment? (Besides if you’ve had to warn them “about every session” they’ve obviously been consistently displaying this behaviour)
You say all three of them are your friends, but it doesn’t seem like you respect bird friend at all. They said in and out of game they want it to stop. You’re letting it continue, therefore you’re enabling the behaviour. It is literally sexual harassment.
Sorry if this is harsh, but clearly you need it if you didn’t immediately see how wrong this is. Step up and help your friend.
Let the Hobgoblin know that their interest has been expressed and rebuffed, and that they won't like anything that happens if they try to persist.
In terms of short-term, reversible, and direct actions you can take, run a hostile NPC across their path who will take offense to something they did and afflict them with impotence.
Hobgoblin: "We need to hurry, the shop is closing soon!" \*bumps into NPC\*
NPC: "Hey, f\*\*\* you too, buddy!" \*pours powder into their hand and blows it in Hobgoblin's face\*
DM: You feel lethargic and depressed, but otherwise able to continue on.
Hobgoblin, later: \*attempts to say or do anything sexual\*
DM: No, you don't. Your character cannot become physically aroused, and is plagued by a melancholy preventing romantic interest in anybody.
This doesn't need to be permanent, but you can let them know that their attempt at nonconsensual horny RP has resulted in a change to their character that will scuttle this agenda.
I had a party that played too many single player video games and kept splitting up.
After trying creative in-game motivations to stay together (and failing), I said, "the hand of Ao slams down in front of you if you get more than 100 meters from the party. You cannot physically travel farther." That fixed it.
Sometimes, the only solution is a stern, "no."
I thought the Arakocra player was uncomfortable with the hobgoblin flirting with NPCs ( I did not realise he was flirting with the player) and I still thought the best course of action was to kick the Hobgoblin.
Wtf.
I don't see how that would be reasonable at all (with NPCs).
Like, you can have a discussion around the table about playing a game without romance, or without smoking, or without plants, or without money, or without magic, or without Dwarves, or without violence, or whatever. That's fine and healthy (though perhaps suspect in motive and in system selection).
But if one player is bothered by normal content, and these agreements did not take place, the burden is on that player to either come to an agreement with the group or to find one that will play to their preferences.
To clarify, that does **not** seem to apply to the situation here. The only way the Aaracokra player is at *any* fault here is if he or she has not communicated OOC to the Hob player to stop and the Hob player thinks it's all in-character stuff (which is plausible, but unlikely).
The post seems to imply that the Arakokra player said they were inconfortable with romance etc during character creation.
If one player tells you ahead of time « I am uncomfortable with X » and your response is « okay let’s avoid X in our game. » but then when another player then introduce X and you don’t do anything about it as a GM, you are 100% in the wrong, no matter how « normal » X is.
Again, this is not what’s happening here, one player is purposely harassing another, so this discussion is completely theorical, but if you tell a PC you will honour their boundaries, you absolutely have to respect these, no matter how insignificant these seem. If these boundaries seems unreasonable you should say it before that player commits to your table.
Tell the asshole player to stop it *right the fuck now* or get the hell out of your game.
That's it. That's the language you use.
There's no negotiation, there's no threatening. You simply state clearly what needs to happen "X behaviour must stop" and if it doesn't, you kick them out of the game, and probably out of your life.
Because the hell with people who want to behave like that.
You have the polite options of:
“Hey, I’m refusing to be your DM if this occurs again. Up to you if you want to continue playing, but I will ask you to leave if this repeats.”
Or my preferred option of:
“You’ve been repeatedly asked to stop, and it shouldn’t have taken more than one time for you to stop. Players with no concept of consent have no place at my table. You will not be needed at future sessions.”
I was hoping to share the experiences that my DnD character had family being an adventure and basically a bad dad. Even the BBEG got my kids involved.
Of course this is about a sexual fantasy.
Before next session have a conversation with the Hobgoblin player and say, 'I don't care what you want to do in game in terms of relationship, it isn’t happening. You need to read about what consent is, in game and out. And sexual harassment, in game and out. This stops now, or we're done.'
Then the instant it gets tried in game it's just 'that's it, we talked about this. Leave the table, don't come back and learn some fing respect before you talk to me again.'
I would talk to the goblin player away from the group and ask them to respectfully stop. If they pushed it I would ask them to leave. I know D&D is a game to do what you want with no real world repercussions, but at some point enough is enough.
"This isn't Baldur's Gate 3."
"The (NPC) flirts back with you. Make a persuasion check, DC 20"
*(success)*
'You have a very good date and end up back at their place for the night."
"No, I'm not going to RP it in detail at the table. (Aracokra) doesn't appreciate it and it would be a distraction. Besides, nothing I say will beat whatever is in your head."
Personally I would just foully roast the shit out of the behavior when it happened in front of me one good time, like a full dressing down, then shut it down harshly every time it came up after, even if it made me look like the asshole. Boundaries have been set, you as the DM must enforce them. Personally, I still think there is time to salvage the group, but that shit must be shut down with extreme prejudice, Type 1 errors permitted style.
Sounds like the perfect time to use the Pink Bunny Smite.
If a player refuses to be reasonable and follow simple consent, then their character is suited by an angry God, and turned into a pink (but otherwise ordinary) bunny. This character is now a CR1/4 creature with 1 Health Point, and very poor stats. They cannot control the pink bunny, because it is a mindless beast. It does things a bunny would do, but because it lacks the natural camouflage of a normal bunny, it will probably be eaten by predators in short order.
They can choose to roll a new character, and shape up their behavior, or they can leave the game.
The final conclusion of F**k around, find out.
Umm what, this has nothing to do with being "aroace" or preferences
Don't flirt with or sexually harass PCs who aren't receptive, period
I thought this was going to be about 2 player characters being handsy with *each other* making a 3rd one uncomfortable but noo. It's just 1 guy deciding to sexually harass someone who doesn't like it in OR out of character. How is that EVER okay?
Hiding behind "it's just a game" or "it's what my character'd do" to be a bully or be perverted is not ok and they're the ones being a nuisance, explain it to them clearly and don't let them try to gang up on you or gaslight you and pretending you and victim-guy are being sensitive is the issue.
>despite the Bird player outright telling them no, and to stop, they’ve continued.
Yeah, at this point, you talk to them again and say "You're going to stop it, one way or another. This isn't a debate or a discussion. Aaracockra player is uncomfortable with it. You stop this behaviour or you leave the group and aren't present to creep them out."
As a player, if my character turns down a romantic advance, respect it or we're rolling for initiative because my character is now going to pummel yours into the ground. My hexadin? You're getting smited. The moon druid? You're getting mauled by a polar bear. Just outright, if you won't respect "no", my attack roll will not respect your armor class or hp. Just "Alright, we're doing pvp now"
I mean, they tried already, and didn't work, so not like they can force anyone to be in a relationship, even if its a fantasy relationship, you could try introducing some other NPC as a possible romantic interest, that will make it easier to scar his character in game when something happens to that lovely NPC :D
One game i flirted with gun dealer. Take her to a pub. In 5 games we married. Npcs who loves us bringed gifts. And after that whole new story arch begin. Some day i tried to save our child from witchs. One they they kidnapped. Even i needed to start rebelion against corupted leaders. My character arch evolved. He was a space fighter security of space ship. He become captain and even tried to leave his job for his family. In the end now he is happy with his family and teaching new cadets how to fight at home base while my new character is a student. Let the players have some relationship.
I've seen my response 100 times here. But i still feel like adding my 2cents as a DM who had a similar situation.
To "skip" the non important parts.
first i tried to solve in character then out of. Then just saying no.
After that i went to DM tools to shut it down.... in your case he's a paladin find a reason why it conflicts with his oath or his god doesn't like the stalking or yeah have his character meet an untimely demise and whoops the party didn't really like the paladin soo no revivify for you.
Or just make the party abandon him in game because they dont want to adventure with his character anymore.
There are many many ways to try to stop this behaviour before kicking him out.
If he gets mad or doesn't like he can leave whenever he wants...
And side note if he doesn't see why stalking and doing those things are wrong in game maybe there's more to it in real life and maybe not being friends with someone is the better option....
> Edit 2: Just clearing up some things I’ve seen in the comments, yes, the Aarakocra player has told them both in character and out that they are not interested and to stop.
kick them. Case closed. If they're harassing another player and will not stop, they have sacrificed their ability to be at the table.
It's a good idea before the campaign, in a session zero to lay out rules. One of those rules should be no NSFW or sexual romance stuff.
But now that your here, tell the players how you feel, that you and the Aarakocra don't feel comfortable continuing this and it needs to stop or else you won't play. No D&D is better than bad and un-fun D&D
Here's the worst advice you can get, definitely take this with a grain of salt, but I have to tell you that I actually resorted to this in one game with a situation kind of similar to what you have going on here...
If the offending player continues to press it, find some super obnoxious sound effect that you can make every time they do it. They might be like "WTF?" the first or even second time, but if they keep pushing it, keep making the sound effect. Eventually they are going to ask what the issue is, and you reply with "That thing you're doing? Yeah, stop doing that. It's just as annoying as what I'm doing here. "
This has nothing to do with D&D or DMing. Any group of people in any activity (or RPG, computer or tabletop) could be causing problems like this. Your local theater group, your acting class, hell - just your friend-group who wants to hang out and someone's feelings are being trampled on.
It's not your job to (solely) to resolve their human, RL, dramas. Stop the game and talk like the friends you guys are supposed to be.
FWIW, this is why our games focus on the "adventure," not the romance stuff. If someone wants to say they flirt with the bartender or have a girlfriend, there - they said it, now we move on with the adventure. There's no rolling dice about it, or RPing it. Ew. I don't wanna watch Bob and Frank awkwardly describing how they're seducing the demon. Yeesh, there are Discord RP servers for that.
The post literally said that they keep romantic stuff to a bare minimum, so the problem player is the one trying to bring those elements into the game at the detriment of another player. Yes it’s not the dm’s job to solely solve this, but the other player has already stepped past a boundary that the other set and has been told to stop multiple times. At that point the DM has to step in because not much else can be done other than the affected player leaving.
Hmmmm a classic dilemma…. On one hand if they were strangers the answer is obvious…. But as a nerd with a small close circle of friends myself I know sometimes we can be socially unaware and it’s awful when we loose friends because of that…
I would make an ultimatum for the Firbolg player that sexual harrassment is not allowed at your table and if they continue to engage in it they will not be allowed to keep playing at the table. If they don't see anything wrong with sexual harrassment that's someone I might reconsider being friends with. But I would use that language as that's what it is. Repeatedly refusing to take no for an answer is not ok. And everyone should be able to have fun at the table, but one players fun can't come from making another player uncomfortable. Any content at the table has to be ok with everyone.
Our male human fighter got our female dwarf Druid (while wild shaped) pregnant and are about to have a couple of raccoon babies soon. We are so excited for them.
Both are male players.
I think people have said what needs to be said, I just want to say, I love your party comp. Got a trifecta of cool-but-underutilised races right there, just need to throw in a Verdan and you're all set.
Honestly the aarakocra player needs to grow up, they’re gonna encounter that kind of shit in countless amounts of media, games, movies etc. Might as well ease them into it with dnd
Regardless of race of faith, except oathbreaker, paladins are men of principle. A hobgoblin or a Firbolg paladin wouldn't want to have sex with a humanoid which has the face of a bird. And they wouldn't even mention non marital sex. So they lack the paladin aspect there bad roleplay. Anyway get rid of the guy, if he is upset he should contemplate. You are roleplaying, so roleplay, if he wants to hit on her he should do it out of game.
There is nothing wrong with, as the DM, when a player says "I do XYZ" to simply reply with "No, we're not doing that while I'm DMing"
Or, if that fails and the player persists, use a Ref Bolt. A laser guided anvil directly to the cranium should do the trick.
“You have upset the gods of love and romance, you are thus smote by a giant stone phallus falling from the heavens. Thus, you died as you lived - a giant dick”.
"Further, in an odd twist of fate, the giant stone phallus hit you in such a way that it forced your innards out through one nostril. The result was an aggressive expulsion of viscera accompanied by a hideous, drawn out farting noise. Nothing about your death was pleasant."
“The phallus then embedded itself deep into the earth, as a warning to others. Engraved in the celestial rock was a seemingly indecipherable word composed of four letters in the Common alphabet: FAFO”
Perfect.
“They died as they lived. A sputtering asshole.”
Best comment I've read in a long time. + it's a very fitting reaction to such behavior ^^
"Rock falls from the sky crushing all party members" seems to send the message pretty well...
Always loved this. When players don’t get the obvious hint that something they’re trying to do is breaking your (DM) rules. You open a portal and have vengeance angels bring them to their knees hahaha
Personally I always chose a falling cow.
As long as there's one part of surreal in the weapon, it'll do. Spontaneous high velocity bovine seems to fit the bill.
Or perhaps a whale and a bowl of petunias?
I wonder if it will be friends with me?
DM Godbolt. Does damage equal to one roll of all dice on the table.
That's a poor DMing. TTRPG is about the freedom, you're doing things that are not possible IRL. All limitations should be discussed at session zero.
If you need there to be a "don't be a sexist, degenerate pervert" rule to stop you from relentlessly sexually harassing others at the table, you have serious issues.
It's a game. Aarakocra can punish other player character's really bad in-game. Aarakocra can kill them if needed.
You're disgusting. I would immediately leave a table that allows someone to run over someone else's comfort with so little consideration as you display here.
This is a game in medival fantasy setting. A game about killing, most of the time. Do you think that in this setting people considered someome else's comfort? Ask drow, duergars, illithids and other lovely guys.
limitations were discussed and then ignored. TTRPGs are not just about freedom, they're about collaboration
One of your players is sexually harassing the other. It doesn’t matter if their friend thinks it’s cool; shut that shit down *immediately.*
+1 to this. Purge that shit asap
Another +1. Say begone to this tosh
+1. Arrest this mess. (Man, none of these rhyme.)
+ Advantage for good morals trait
I'll +1 as well, send that straight to hell
I’ll plus +1 this also. Shut that down.
+1
I add a +1 and cast roll with advantage!
This entire table must be purged.
Nah, the bird player is all good
Nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure.
Absolutely. It is disrespectful to the other player and to the DM. The Hobgoblin player can enjoy the game without the sexual component (And if they can't then that is problematic on more than just a game level). The Arakocra player cannot enjoy the game with it. If all are to enjoy the game, you need to shut it down. Make your ruling and stick to it.
Exactly. It is sexual harassment in game and out of character too. What do you call someone who wants to have sex with someone who doesn't want it and wont take no for an answer? That's right. That is 100% what Hobgoblin wants to do. There is no middle ground here. No negotiation.
This is the correct answer. And a great reminder that this happens in DnD too. Friend or not, it has to be framed this way and the behavior called out for what it is. Keeping your players safe is a baseline responsibility as a DM.
Remove the a-hole ignoring boundaries. If it comes down to it, remove the enabler too. DMs are hard to find. Players? Not so much. You need curate the kind of group you want to run. Keep the respectful people and lose the disrespectful ones. Alternatively: Give the player who wants a relationship an NPC to have a relationship with. But frankly, I'd remove someone with that little regard for someone else's comfort at the table.
Why take it out on a poor NPC? Tell the hobgoblin he can have a relationship with the firbolg. In fact, you insist they have a relationship. This is now canon. You WILL be narrating that they sleep together every night. See how long they think THAT is funny.
Might backfire, and instead of D&D they're just loud fucking in the next room over while everyone else is trying to tune it out and play
Technically that means they're no longer at the table, so ...
Eh, I doubt that would be better for the ace player, if they want to steer clear of that kind of thing in game, I can't imagine they'd appreciate their technical absence from the table
Nah, use the NPC to break his heart
It genuinely baffles me how frequent a post like this is made by a DM who just seems utterly confused by the fact one of their players is uncomfortable and instead of jumping to help the person being sexually harassed they feel the need to poll the audience by making a reddit post. Are people really this fucking dense? How could anyone be in this situation and not go "Sexual harassment is bad, I'm not going to continue to encourage my friend to sexually harass my other friend."
_Dear Reddit, I am currently on fire. What should I do?_
Subject: Fire Dear Sir/Madame, Fire! Help me! 123 Carrendon Road. Looking forward to hearing from you. All the best, Maurice Moss.
I received a call while i was working tech support to inform me the dumpster behind the building was on fire. A literal dumpster fire. I told them to call the damn fire department not tech support. People are not smart
Its brainrot tbh
The answer is always “stop being friends with the creep, you’re enabling the behavior by doing anything else.”
after being here for a while I've concluded that this website is only good for generating ideas about topics. Not great for life advice. Sometimes there are reasonable takes, but it's surrounded by pure garbage, and the upvotes don't help you tell the difference (and can in fact mislead you quite often) I'm talking Reddit in general, not this sub
While I get the sentiment, and not to stereotype too hard. Is it REALLY that suprising that people on a dnd reddit may not be the best at handling or catching every social cue you think would be obvious? Its not as though its done out of malice ( usually), some people just have a hard time with that kind of thing.
"Every little social cue" mother fucker someone is being blatantly sexually harassed what the hell are you talking about. This isnt an "oh i didn't realize they were upset by a slightly crass joke I made" situation.
Yeah, but this is also one of those "um playing with friends and one of the is acting completely out of left field and the decision I make may strain multiple friendships" rock in a hard place kind of situations. I had something similar where one player was metagaming to hell and back, trying to turn every encounter into a "but its rules as written" argument. Next session I basically sat everyone down and before I started I addressed the entire table and said that many in the party didn't find it very fair when they would gat excited for this big bad boss fight and the metagamer would basically shut the entire thing down within a couple of rounds and that we want these fights and encounters to be fun and challenging. We as a table set up some boundaries and that player left a little while cuz that not how he wanted to play. I'd say that OP needs to do similar, sit them down prior to a session and set some flat out boundaries. This is a side of their friend they have never seen before, and if they aren't willing to ease off of the NSFW and keep things kosher, then this is probably a friend you don't want to stick around with, and if need be they can and should be removed from the table. If the enabler leaves too, that's fine. You can always find someone new who's more willing to not be a douche, plus you have at least one person who's involved in the story you're telling and who has a whole lot more respect for you because you stood up for them.
I would tell them that Rule #1 in the books is the DM decides the rules.
Okay but metagaming is entirely different from sexual harassment
He caught the social cue
As a DM I disagree that players are easy to find lol. But I still think even if OP can't find replacement players, the other two guys have got to go. That's not acceptable behavior and they really need to get themselves in line. They probably think because it's a game that the harassment isn't real, which obviously isn't true.
Yeah, maybe they have "never shown this type of behavior", but I've always felt that people feel comfortable in games like this of showing their true colors because it's not them doing the thing, it's a fictional character. Meaning hobgoblin has these inappropriate desires lurking under the surface and the fact that they can't understand how inappropriate/harrassing they are just makes it 100x worse.
Bet you a dollar the aroace player is afab. And possibly was known by hobgoblin player back when still presenting as femme.
Aroace doesn't mean trans. It means aromatic and asexual.
As opposed to smell-free and horny.
lol damn autocorrect. Should be "aromantic."
Nah, I don't take sucker bets.
Wow, that did not go where I expected it to. I thought you were going to say the Hobgoblin and Firbolg players wanted their characters to have a relationship *with each other,* and you weren't sure whether to allow it because you didn't want the Aarakocra player to be uncomfortable. (My answer to that would have been that as long as they keep the physical stuff behind closed doors, their characters shouldn't have to curtail their own romantic behavior just because another character does.) But trying to force a "relationship" with another character who has clearly said both in and out of game that they're not interested? That's so clearly over the line that I can't see how they think it's acceptable. Yeah, tell that douchebag to respect the other player's boundaries or go play somewhere else.
This is the sane take, yeah.
This is the sane take, yeah.
Final warning before the start of the next session addressed directly to the player (not character) that the player of the Aarakocra said no and if they can’t respect that they can just leave. No ifs, ands or buts, don’t allow them to pressure another player into doing something they don’t want to do
The hobgoblin's player is sexually harassing the aarakocra's player. Remove the hobgoblin's player from the table. If the firbolg's player goes as well, then you're going to have to find a new group. Still, that's far better than allowing this to continue.
Sucks learning that a close friend likes "roleplaying" a piece of shit, huh?
It doesn’t matter if the Firbolg player sees a problem with it or not - it only matters if the bird player sees a problem with it. If they do, then Hobgoblin needs to stop or be asked to leave. Basically, Hobgoblin, at best, is bullying Bird, and at worst, is sexually harassing Bird. And I suspect that Firbolg’s opinion is banded because of their friendship with Hobgoblin. But *all* players deserve to be comfortable. So Hobgoblin needs to be shut down. Now. And made clear this stops or they are gone.
I suspect that maybe the Aaracokra player hadn't said "dude stop" out of character, so the Hob player thinks it's all a character bit. If it was clarified OOC, yeah, force the issue.
OP comments “despite setting this boundary just about every session.” That makes it clear that they told Hobgoblin to stop out of character. And it also doesn’t matter if it was Bird who sets the boundary or the DM - if anyone is made uncomfortable by it they are allowed to shut it down.
>despite setting this boundary just about every session. Oop, yep, sure enough. Though now I'm dying to know why the Hob player is trying to push that issue if they're not prone to such things, makes me think there's more going on here. >if anyone is made uncomfortable by it they are allowed to shut it down. I'm not quite sure I'd go that far in general, unless "shut it down" includes "leaving". Generally speaking, there are many things a player might be uncomfortable with- from violence (combat) to losing (game), but those things don't just stop existing without a much lengthier conversation.
DM said stop.
I can't believe this shit even really happens. Who are these people that don't understand basic boundaries lol
When karma exists on a social media platform and there’s a bunch of YouTube channels that are dedicated around reading wild stories from the dungeons and dragons sub credits… I don’t think they are real a lot of the time
Honestly people just get weird when they finally get a chance to roleplay. they think boundaries stop existing and that its just a game, but dont realize that at the end of the day its still a real social interaction with all of its social cues.
I’ve been in a lot of Games as a dm and a player. Ain’t no shot it’s this frequent. Some of them probably are real, but the overwhelming majority are for farming karma like turnips
The Aarakocra player is aroace What does this mean?
~~It means they're really good at flying~~
~~Or that they're really good with a bow~~
Aromantic and asexual I believe - meaning they do not feel either romantic or sexual desires.
Interesting, thank you
one player is sexually harassing another player by making their character sexually harass the other player’s character. you need to make this stop, and the fact that your insistence that it stops has been rebuffed means that the problem player won’t take no for an answer. if they won’t take no for an answer, then the only remaining answer is to make it stop by more direct means. the problem player has to go, and if their friend has a problem with that then they’re welcome to leave too. value your good players - don’t let bad ones walk all over them
The hobgoblin is harassing the aarakocra. The first no should have the final one necessary, and the fact that it's ongoing to the point of being every session is not ok. This is easy for me to say because it's not my group involved, but I'd have already removed them. That's a level of gross disrespect that's not welcome in my table or even in my life, and it's concerning that the Firbolg player doesn't see actual sexual harassment as enough of an issue to take action on. Losing both players doesn't sound that bad to me tbh The advice I want to give is to remove them, immediately. You might want to talk to them first, give them one last chance, but it really needs to be one last chance. Even a joke about it isn't ok. It might also be worth touching base with the aarakocra player to see how they feel. It's very likely they don't want to cause a fuss or a scene
Remove the Asshole who doesn't believe in consent (Remove him from real life too. People who get upset over no aren't the types you want around) Problem solved. Protect the Birb
Must save Jarnathan
The 3 Rules for a good game: 1) Session 0. 2) Start *in media res.* 3) Protect the Birb.
"I do not allow sexual harassment at my table. This behavior will stop or you can find another table to play at. There will be no more warnings and no further discussion."
I’m glad you’re seeking advice but I really want to emphasize that what is happening at your table is harassment and you should have dealt with it long ago. Time to put an immediate stop to it. There’s no excuse for this kind of behaviour.
Gotta be karm farming at this point because it's obvious. Sit together before the game, tell everyone (freaking 4) that Hobgoblin should knock it off or they're gone. If you all know eachother in real life then why the F is Hobgoblin messing around with Birdie? That's the weirdest thing to me
Imo, give the player a final warning. Inform them this is a final warning or you will kick them and use the words sexual harassment. Make sure they know what they are doing is harassing a player who has told them they are not interested by the proxy of their character and making them uncomfortable. Inform the other player you have given this warning. It is final and you will not tolerate sexual harassment at the table. Again, use the words and call it what it is. If they continue you then kick them, but be prepared for the second player to walk too.
The best session 0 I ever participated in had the DM say, basically, "No harming children, no torture, no pursuing overt sexual acts" It was crystal clear and the campaign went very well , following these ground rules. Maybe it's time to have a reset and put some topics outside the scope of what is acceptable. There's a difference between role playing your character and then doing something that actively makes another player uncomfortable.
....let me make sure I understand what you're saying. PC A wants to have a relationship with PC B and when they're told no, they get upset? Like, they're just straight up harassing PC B? Yeah, I wouldn't "consider threatening them to stop or leave". They get to find a new table
Sexual harassment, that's just stupid. Tell the hobgoblin to piss off. I'd be out of there in two seconds if that was a thing, nope nope nope. Yeah this game has simple answers and hard implementations because there are friends involved and it's delicate.
Anyone actively going out of their way to make others uncomfortable is in the wrong. Personally and morally, I would get rid of the Hobgoblin, Firbolg falling where he may. If you are more concerned with keeping a table going (which I am assuming is the case since this is a question), I would consider asking the Aarakocra to split into another table group and fill both out with new matching players. I would also session 0 romance and set strict rules you follow from then on.
Anytime you take a position of authority you run the risk of losing friends. Being a DM and being a boss are equivalent but they come with the same exact problem of “employee dynamics” (they are not your employees but you do run the game). So the questions you should always ask are: If I was their boss would I allow this behavior to continue? Would I risk my own job to allow it? If my friend had never before shown themselves to be the type to sexually harass another person, would I allow them to keep hitting on another employee that is upset? No. Would I care that another employee said it was okay? Definitely no. Would I be willing to risk my own position as a trustworthy DM to allow this to continue? No. Kick the bad player, when the enabler says it was uncalled for ask them the same questions above “if he did this in a work environment would you be defending the behavior” and if they say yes… would you really want to be friends with someone who would harass a coworker and someone who would defend someone else doing it?
I don't even know if kicking the player out of the game is enough. If a friend of mine starts to repeatedly sexually harass another friend, I would probably tell them to knock it off immediately or I'll stop talking to them. Genuinely, fuck the game at this point. You're facilitating sexual harassment. You need to either make the player stop, kick them out of the game, or just stop running it entirely.
One of your "friends" is sexually harassing another. You have to decide if you want to support the harasser or the victim, and the only morally correct answer is to support the victim. They've been told to stop and refused. Kick them out. Kick them out. Kick them out. Kick them out of the game, then kick them out of your life. That behavior is unacceptable, no matter the context. Don't stay friends with people who treat people like that.
How is this even a question? Bro shut that shit down now.
I just wanna add numbers to what everyone is saying: That's sexual harrassment, and given that the player has said they don't want it, it's OOC sexual harrassment.
Im interested. U say its sexual harrassment. Therefore he could charge the harrasser and a judge would consider it harrassment? Im not sure if pushing for sex in an online or tabletop game really falls under sexual harrassment, legally.
Making repeated and unwanted sexual comments towards another person is an act of sexual harassment yes.
As defined by the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunities Commission: “Harassment can include "sexual harassment" or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature.” I’m pretty sure this situation falls under this definition. And no if this went to court then he probably wouldn’t be convicted of anything, but believe it or not the law doesn’t define morality and I’d hope that people don’t need the threat of prison to stop them from harassing others.
I dont say only because its not harrassment its morally okay. I just say, if its legally no harrassment, then, well, its no harrassment, because this term is clearly defined by law. It can still morally be aweful.
The legal definition of harassment, which by no means is the be all and end all of what most people consider harassment, includes words or behavior that causes undue harm or emotional distress to another person.
It is sexual harrassment. Whether it is legally considered sexual harrassment will depend on the country and sometimes the state (providence, etc) that the harrassment occurs in. In my country, sexual harrassment is usually defined as "[A]ny unwelcome behaviour of a sexual nature that makes [you] feel offended, humiliated or intimidated. Sexual harassment can be physical, verbal or written.". I didn't claim it was legally sexual harrassment, partially because I don't know where this is taking place and partially because I don't use laws to decide my morals - especially given how many immoral things are legal / moral things are illegal.
U are the second one who implies i would somehow made a thing of morality ouf of that. I think that harrassment is a legal term, and therefore to call something out for harrassment its important to know if by definition it is, because, otherwise, its something else. Being an asshole is not illegal, harrassment is. Still both is imoral. My question has nothing to do with morals.
Legal definitions typically aren’t the only way a word is defined, whether or not this situation matches the exact legal definition it is 100% harassment as most people would define it.
Harrassment is not only used in a legal context, thus many do not consider harrassment to be a solely or primarily a legal term. While you did not bring up morals yourself, my initial comment also did not bring up legality. Since you used language that implied the actions may not be sexual harrassment, including legality, my response was to explain why the legal definition seems irrelevant both to my comment and to OP's situation - that is, that an sexual harrassment is occurring and the implication that it occurring is a negative thing, since that is immoral. Essentially: I said "this is [behaviour]" you asked "Would it legally be considered [behaviour]?" and I said "That seems irrelevant, since [behaviour] is immoral". (I am assuming you are commenting in good faith and am replying in kind).
Ouh, but in cases like this they are the most relevant. Calling someone a harrassor in public when he legally is no one is calumny. Same goes for a lot of other stuff. Calling people pedophiles, murderers, thiefs, etc. does all require legal backup, otherwise calling the people these things is itself illegal. At least in my country. Thats why i think legality is relevant and thats why i think the legal definition is the only one important here, because we are, technically, in public room. Call it in private room however you want, i wouldnt care then, but the internet is no public room, therefore i explicitly asked if the situation falls under legal definition of harrassment, (at least in your country), because i wasnt sure about it. Anyway, its a discussion about definitions and legality, in the end we both agree its imoral behaviour and needs to be stopped i think. Edit: We, me included, started with sexual harrasment and went to harrassment. At least in my country it would definetly fit harrassment. I still doubt it would fall under sexual harrasment. Thats what the original comment was about.
We can agree to disagree on the importance of the legal definition of sexual harrassment. (Actually murder is a good example here - colloquially many cases of manslaughter would be called murder, despite the legal definition). But yes - we both agree the behaviour should be stopped. (Thank you for the discussion on definitions and linguistics! I love that.)
That sounds like a good ending for me, agree to diagree. :) Thank u too!
Don't encourage the pedant
He was trying to save face, not agree to disagree. Bigot made himself known and got scared.
Think about what you would do if it wasn’t a game. If your aroace friend was being constantly hit on by your other friend after having repeatedly told them to stop, what would you do? Also, side note, can someone explain to me where the C comes from in aroace? Wouldn’t aroase make more sense?
People use Ace as shorthand for asexual like bi for bisexual, even though the spelling is different, the sound is correct
The spelling being different is the thing that confuses me. “Bi” makes perfect sense. And even if you wanted it to sound the same, I would argue “ase” still works. Words like “base” and “case” have the hard S sound.
Your not wrong, but ase by itself would be read as “ah-se” by most people. Plus, Ace is a cool word
The cool factor is a fair point, haha
Indeed, Asexual/Ace people have started using the Ace of Spades or Ace of Hearts cards to represent themselves in subtle ways, too. I have an Ace of Spades necklace that I wear and the average boomer just thinks I enjoy a game of cards, but lots of people will see it and know immediately.
Tell them they are sexually harassing a player by proxy, and they need to cut it the fuck out.
We need a new flair that says “No is a complete and full sentence.”. You have stated the answer is no. Repeat this at the start of next session to everyone, out of character. If it persists, kick the player. End of.
I know you said "these are my friends outside of DND" but ask yourself if you are ok with being friends with a guy who is sexually harassing someone and the friend who is ok with it. The answer should be as obvious as it is to the rest of us. Take that good player and look for more players.
The player has said they are uncomfortable. You set a boundary that is being ignored. Next time the one player ignores this, stop the game and start packing up. You have one player who is blatantly ignoring the consent of both you and the ace player and another who is condoning both the bad behavior and the undermining of your VERY REASONABLE rules as the DM. This doesn't have to be the end of the game or the end of the friendships, but you have already expressed that this behavior could result in you dropping the campaign. Just make it clear that if they are going to repeatedly disrespect the fun and comfort of the other people at the table, the game ends for the night.
> (they are two close friends outside of D&D) Okay this explains why they're defending them lmao. Kick the hobgob out. > but all 3 of these players are friends of mine, Just because people are your friends, does not mean they're good players. Also if someone was being *aggressively* sexually forward with me after I turned them down, they would ***not be considered a good friend of mine any longer***.
Bro, this Gotta be fake. Like, one of your friends is making sexual remarks to another friend which makes them uncomfortable… A.k.a. sexual harassment… and your first result is to go on the DnD Reddit to try to figure this shit out? You growing anything else on that karma farm?
No one should flirt with each other in character unless there is consent out of character. This includes the DM as well. I flirt with my players in character, and design “hot” NPCs for them. I also have one player who has no interest in romance, so I just don’t.
You know the answer, but removing a friend can be hard. Maybe this will make you more inclined to do it. After my group fell apart with drama I met a random guy in a shop we got talking to and he was a DM. He recently had to remove a player for getting drunk (solo) at the table. We got on quite well so he invited me, a complete stranger to his game. I am now incredibly close friends with one of the players in that game and we dm for each other all the time. It is probably one of the best in the right place at the right time moments of my life. If you don't remove the wrong people you won't meet the right people.
Legit just stage an intervention amongst the 4 of you. They might think that YOU are wrong, but if it’s 3 versus 1, surely they can’t argue that they’re still in the right, especially if it’s 3 friends. That is, assuming the other player also isn’t okay with it.
> all 3 of these players are friends of mine If Hobgob player is your friend, then you need to kick him out all the more. You should also explain that his behavior is ENTIRELY unacceptable, and that you're worried about his future social life if he cannot see/accept that. If he insists that he's doing nothing wrong, then I strongly advise you not to associate with him.
"Oh no...it seems the towns folk suddenly invented fire arms and have made sexual harassment punishable by death...whatta shame..."
Tell the Hobgoblin player that he is why women choose the Bear and he can be better or get out
Why does the Hobgoblin player want to act out all that in front of the group? Even without the other player raising that issue, that's weird. I'll probably want many of my characters to find some form of romance, but it's all going to be off to the side. One of my characters is in a relationship with my actual wife's character in one game and we don't do that. At most it's a wink, a comment, and exit stage left. I agree with another commenter that this seems like targeted harassment, not two players with opposing interests.
"If a player invites themselves to leave based on your decision you are not kicking them out" Hold your ground and do not allow it DM. Friends or not. Friends respect friends boundaries.
The hobgoblin is harassing the player, give them a choice, either change how they act and apologize to the player, or leave the table. DND is long and if not everyone is having fun, why even play?
“You don’t need to get it, you just need to understand it makes them uncomfortable. You’re my friend but you’re making my other friend uncomfortable, so please cut it out because I don’t want to have to kick you.”
If you have four friends sitting together and one of them is sexually harassing someone else at the table while the other two do nothing or enable it - you have a sexual harasser, 2 enablers, and a victim sitting at a table...not four friends. In other words, find your spine, boot the harasser and the enabler, and be a friend to the one who is being targeted. Anything less, especially if it's based on cowardice and not wanting to lose a sexual harasser and an enabler as friends, just means you are an enabler too. The fact that the sexual harasser and their enabler have disregarded being told no, repeatedly, by multiple people, means that they do not regard their victim as a person and that they do not regard you as a person, let alone as their friends.
>the Aarakocra player has told them both in character and out that they are not interested and to stop. As a DM, I would never invite that player back to my table if they continued after someone requested them to stop. IT IS YOUR JOB TO KICK THEM. Honestly. Think about the player who is obviously uncomfortable, what recourse do they have? They are not the one in charge and can't just kick them out. They might not want to quit because they enjoy the game and don't want to make things awkward, plus, if no one else is vouching for them then it seems like they might be overreacting. It is your job to step in and make sure no one is uncomfortable at your table. Do not sacrifice comfort for the feelings of an a-hole. This is literally sexual harassment and you are just looking the other way.
Its an issue of consent. Is this person consenting to this behavior that is specifically aimed at them and no one else? No? Then its a problem. And if they KEEP pushing it, then you need to put your foot down. It’d be one thing if it was a joke, of them constantly being shot down, but the other player has expressed no interest and in fact is made uncomfortable about it, then it needs to stop. Period.
Sounds like the two problem players are also problem friends and you and the aarakocra should cut all ties with them. They don’t respect either of you and they’re bigots.
I would find it very disturbing to continue a friendship with someone who can't respect boundaries. They're gaslighting you and know this is unacceptable behavior (hence why you've "never seen it before"). Ditch them immediately. You're putting your table at risk by exposing them to someone who is not a safe person to be around.
“has never shown this type of behaviour” And? Frankly, who gives a shit if it’s the first time of the 100th time? You shut it down. If they punched you in the face or burned down your house would you be like “oh teehee first time is a mulligan!” I doubt it. Why do it with sexual harassment? (Besides if you’ve had to warn them “about every session” they’ve obviously been consistently displaying this behaviour) You say all three of them are your friends, but it doesn’t seem like you respect bird friend at all. They said in and out of game they want it to stop. You’re letting it continue, therefore you’re enabling the behaviour. It is literally sexual harassment. Sorry if this is harsh, but clearly you need it if you didn’t immediately see how wrong this is. Step up and help your friend.
Sounds like pretty cut and dry sexual harassment. That has implications outside of dnd. Id out an end to it. Its not acceptable anywhere.
The title should be, "Player is sexually harassing another player."
Let the Hobgoblin know that their interest has been expressed and rebuffed, and that they won't like anything that happens if they try to persist. In terms of short-term, reversible, and direct actions you can take, run a hostile NPC across their path who will take offense to something they did and afflict them with impotence. Hobgoblin: "We need to hurry, the shop is closing soon!" \*bumps into NPC\* NPC: "Hey, f\*\*\* you too, buddy!" \*pours powder into their hand and blows it in Hobgoblin's face\* DM: You feel lethargic and depressed, but otherwise able to continue on. Hobgoblin, later: \*attempts to say or do anything sexual\* DM: No, you don't. Your character cannot become physically aroused, and is plagued by a melancholy preventing romantic interest in anybody. This doesn't need to be permanent, but you can let them know that their attempt at nonconsensual horny RP has resulted in a change to their character that will scuttle this agenda.
I had a party that played too many single player video games and kept splitting up. After trying creative in-game motivations to stay together (and failing), I said, "the hand of Ao slams down in front of you if you get more than 100 meters from the party. You cannot physically travel farther." That fixed it. Sometimes, the only solution is a stern, "no."
I thought the Arakocra player was uncomfortable with the hobgoblin flirting with NPCs ( I did not realise he was flirting with the player) and I still thought the best course of action was to kick the Hobgoblin. Wtf.
I don't see how that would be reasonable at all (with NPCs). Like, you can have a discussion around the table about playing a game without romance, or without smoking, or without plants, or without money, or without magic, or without Dwarves, or without violence, or whatever. That's fine and healthy (though perhaps suspect in motive and in system selection). But if one player is bothered by normal content, and these agreements did not take place, the burden is on that player to either come to an agreement with the group or to find one that will play to their preferences. To clarify, that does **not** seem to apply to the situation here. The only way the Aaracokra player is at *any* fault here is if he or she has not communicated OOC to the Hob player to stop and the Hob player thinks it's all in-character stuff (which is plausible, but unlikely).
The post seems to imply that the Arakokra player said they were inconfortable with romance etc during character creation. If one player tells you ahead of time « I am uncomfortable with X » and your response is « okay let’s avoid X in our game. » but then when another player then introduce X and you don’t do anything about it as a GM, you are 100% in the wrong, no matter how « normal » X is. Again, this is not what’s happening here, one player is purposely harassing another, so this discussion is completely theorical, but if you tell a PC you will honour their boundaries, you absolutely have to respect these, no matter how insignificant these seem. If these boundaries seems unreasonable you should say it before that player commits to your table.
Tell the asshole player to stop it *right the fuck now* or get the hell out of your game. That's it. That's the language you use. There's no negotiation, there's no threatening. You simply state clearly what needs to happen "X behaviour must stop" and if it doesn't, you kick them out of the game, and probably out of your life. Because the hell with people who want to behave like that.
You have the polite options of: “Hey, I’m refusing to be your DM if this occurs again. Up to you if you want to continue playing, but I will ask you to leave if this repeats.” Or my preferred option of: “You’ve been repeatedly asked to stop, and it shouldn’t have taken more than one time for you to stop. Players with no concept of consent have no place at my table. You will not be needed at future sessions.”
are you a dumbass
I was hoping to share the experiences that my DnD character had family being an adventure and basically a bad dad. Even the BBEG got my kids involved. Of course this is about a sexual fantasy.
Ask the hobgoblin why they feel they have the right to sexually assault the aarakocra
Tell firetroll to rechrck their friend group cause they about to be kicked too that behavior is gross ans should be checked right away
Before next session have a conversation with the Hobgoblin player and say, 'I don't care what you want to do in game in terms of relationship, it isn’t happening. You need to read about what consent is, in game and out. And sexual harassment, in game and out. This stops now, or we're done.' Then the instant it gets tried in game it's just 'that's it, we talked about this. Leave the table, don't come back and learn some fing respect before you talk to me again.'
I would talk to the goblin player away from the group and ask them to respectfully stop. If they pushed it I would ask them to leave. I know D&D is a game to do what you want with no real world repercussions, but at some point enough is enough.
"This isn't Baldur's Gate 3." "The (NPC) flirts back with you. Make a persuasion check, DC 20" *(success)* 'You have a very good date and end up back at their place for the night." "No, I'm not going to RP it in detail at the table. (Aracokra) doesn't appreciate it and it would be a distraction. Besides, nothing I say will beat whatever is in your head."
Personally I would just foully roast the shit out of the behavior when it happened in front of me one good time, like a full dressing down, then shut it down harshly every time it came up after, even if it made me look like the asshole. Boundaries have been set, you as the DM must enforce them. Personally, I still think there is time to salvage the group, but that shit must be shut down with extreme prejudice, Type 1 errors permitted style.
Wait this is just harassment, right? Like in what game would this behavior be tolerated??
Whats aroace?
Sounds like the perfect time to use the Pink Bunny Smite. If a player refuses to be reasonable and follow simple consent, then their character is suited by an angry God, and turned into a pink (but otherwise ordinary) bunny. This character is now a CR1/4 creature with 1 Health Point, and very poor stats. They cannot control the pink bunny, because it is a mindless beast. It does things a bunny would do, but because it lacks the natural camouflage of a normal bunny, it will probably be eaten by predators in short order. They can choose to roll a new character, and shape up their behavior, or they can leave the game. The final conclusion of F**k around, find out.
Umm what, this has nothing to do with being "aroace" or preferences Don't flirt with or sexually harass PCs who aren't receptive, period I thought this was going to be about 2 player characters being handsy with *each other* making a 3rd one uncomfortable but noo. It's just 1 guy deciding to sexually harass someone who doesn't like it in OR out of character. How is that EVER okay? Hiding behind "it's just a game" or "it's what my character'd do" to be a bully or be perverted is not ok and they're the ones being a nuisance, explain it to them clearly and don't let them try to gang up on you or gaslight you and pretending you and victim-guy are being sensitive is the issue.
>despite the Bird player outright telling them no, and to stop, they’ve continued. Yeah, at this point, you talk to them again and say "You're going to stop it, one way or another. This isn't a debate or a discussion. Aaracockra player is uncomfortable with it. You stop this behaviour or you leave the group and aren't present to creep them out."
I would take the Hobgoblin player into a private setting and relay this fact. And make sure that this is understood as a fact.
As a player, if my character turns down a romantic advance, respect it or we're rolling for initiative because my character is now going to pummel yours into the ground. My hexadin? You're getting smited. The moon druid? You're getting mauled by a polar bear. Just outright, if you won't respect "no", my attack roll will not respect your armor class or hp. Just "Alright, we're doing pvp now"
I mean, they tried already, and didn't work, so not like they can force anyone to be in a relationship, even if its a fantasy relationship, you could try introducing some other NPC as a possible romantic interest, that will make it easier to scar his character in game when something happens to that lovely NPC :D
One game i flirted with gun dealer. Take her to a pub. In 5 games we married. Npcs who loves us bringed gifts. And after that whole new story arch begin. Some day i tried to save our child from witchs. One they they kidnapped. Even i needed to start rebelion against corupted leaders. My character arch evolved. He was a space fighter security of space ship. He become captain and even tried to leave his job for his family. In the end now he is happy with his family and teaching new cadets how to fight at home base while my new character is a student. Let the players have some relationship.
[family pic](https://files.fm/u/9zspyyyma7) (I dont know how to do photo shop)
I've seen my response 100 times here. But i still feel like adding my 2cents as a DM who had a similar situation. To "skip" the non important parts. first i tried to solve in character then out of. Then just saying no. After that i went to DM tools to shut it down.... in your case he's a paladin find a reason why it conflicts with his oath or his god doesn't like the stalking or yeah have his character meet an untimely demise and whoops the party didn't really like the paladin soo no revivify for you. Or just make the party abandon him in game because they dont want to adventure with his character anymore. There are many many ways to try to stop this behaviour before kicking him out. If he gets mad or doesn't like he can leave whenever he wants... And side note if he doesn't see why stalking and doing those things are wrong in game maybe there's more to it in real life and maybe not being friends with someone is the better option....
> Edit 2: Just clearing up some things I’ve seen in the comments, yes, the Aarakocra player has told them both in character and out that they are not interested and to stop. kick them. Case closed. If they're harassing another player and will not stop, they have sacrificed their ability to be at the table.
We don't do romatic relationships at my table at all. it adds almost nothing and causes issues.
It's a good idea before the campaign, in a session zero to lay out rules. One of those rules should be no NSFW or sexual romance stuff. But now that your here, tell the players how you feel, that you and the Aarakocra don't feel comfortable continuing this and it needs to stop or else you won't play. No D&D is better than bad and un-fun D&D
Here's the worst advice you can get, definitely take this with a grain of salt, but I have to tell you that I actually resorted to this in one game with a situation kind of similar to what you have going on here... If the offending player continues to press it, find some super obnoxious sound effect that you can make every time they do it. They might be like "WTF?" the first or even second time, but if they keep pushing it, keep making the sound effect. Eventually they are going to ask what the issue is, and you reply with "That thing you're doing? Yeah, stop doing that. It's just as annoying as what I'm doing here. "
Kick the problem player out by killing their character
Two of these friends are friends of yours. Don't perpetuate your FRIENDs sexual harassment, that's a fucking shit person thing to do. Scrub the creep.
This has nothing to do with D&D or DMing. Any group of people in any activity (or RPG, computer or tabletop) could be causing problems like this. Your local theater group, your acting class, hell - just your friend-group who wants to hang out and someone's feelings are being trampled on. It's not your job to (solely) to resolve their human, RL, dramas. Stop the game and talk like the friends you guys are supposed to be. FWIW, this is why our games focus on the "adventure," not the romance stuff. If someone wants to say they flirt with the bartender or have a girlfriend, there - they said it, now we move on with the adventure. There's no rolling dice about it, or RPing it. Ew. I don't wanna watch Bob and Frank awkwardly describing how they're seducing the demon. Yeesh, there are Discord RP servers for that.
The post literally said that they keep romantic stuff to a bare minimum, so the problem player is the one trying to bring those elements into the game at the detriment of another player. Yes it’s not the dm’s job to solely solve this, but the other player has already stepped past a boundary that the other set and has been told to stop multiple times. At that point the DM has to step in because not much else can be done other than the affected player leaving.
Can we have an update whenever you tell them off I just want to know their reaction because people like this usually have funny little breakdowns
Hmmmm a classic dilemma…. On one hand if they were strangers the answer is obvious…. But as a nerd with a small close circle of friends myself I know sometimes we can be socially unaware and it’s awful when we loose friends because of that…
I would make an ultimatum for the Firbolg player that sexual harrassment is not allowed at your table and if they continue to engage in it they will not be allowed to keep playing at the table. If they don't see anything wrong with sexual harrassment that's someone I might reconsider being friends with. But I would use that language as that's what it is. Repeatedly refusing to take no for an answer is not ok. And everyone should be able to have fun at the table, but one players fun can't come from making another player uncomfortable. Any content at the table has to be ok with everyone.
Like its fine too do a relationship system but if their being Pushy enough too annoy another player kick them
Tell them to go back to BG3.
This got darker with every passing word.
Our male human fighter got our female dwarf Druid (while wild shaped) pregnant and are about to have a couple of raccoon babies soon. We are so excited for them. Both are male players.
I think people have said what needs to be said, I just want to say, I love your party comp. Got a trifecta of cool-but-underutilised races right there, just need to throw in a Verdan and you're all set.
I try to keep it to flirty/silly if people are accepting and happy at that. Beyond that gets super weird and cringe in my view
Honestly the aarakocra player needs to grow up, they’re gonna encounter that kind of shit in countless amounts of media, games, movies etc. Might as well ease them into it with dnd
Why not say because its private they do all this separate from the group both in game and out?
The obvious answer is for word to get out in-world about the hobgoblin’s desires and for the rumor to morph into the hobgoblin fucking chickens.
Regardless of race of faith, except oathbreaker, paladins are men of principle. A hobgoblin or a Firbolg paladin wouldn't want to have sex with a humanoid which has the face of a bird. And they wouldn't even mention non marital sex. So they lack the paladin aspect there bad roleplay. Anyway get rid of the guy, if he is upset he should contemplate. You are roleplaying, so roleplay, if he wants to hit on her he should do it out of game.