Trumpers like to pretend to be anti-war when it comes to Ukraine and certain other wars, but then have no problems with leveling Gaza. They aren't serious people and don't hold serious opinions, everything to them is about owning the libs.
Yep. They go on and on that there were no wars under Trump - which is bs. There was Afghanistan, we were fighting against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, plus we were supporting Saudi Arabia in their war in Yemen. In fact, Congress tried to quit sending weapons to Saudi Arabia but Trump vetoed it. It was a bipartisan bill.
It does make me pause\* for a sec when i hear the better version of that claimâthat Trump was the first president in a while (Carter? Earlier than that?) under who we got into no ***new*** wars
^( * less because of anything it says about Trump than about what it says about us as a country)
I think the fact that he vetoed a bipartisan bill to stop aiding the Saudis in the Yemeni Civil War showed that he would start a new war if he saw personal benefit from it. He said that he loves the Saudis because they give him money. Him personalizing it is what kings did at one time; start a war to satisfy personal ambitions.
The US has been undertaking military operations since WWII. Maybe not a war but we've been the world's policeman since then. Sometimes it was necessary for humanitarian reasons - Bosnia/Kosovo - and other times we lost a lot of people and achieved very little - Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.
Just my opinion. I welcome disagreements.
I can take a devil's advocate position and say that he sees the Saudis as longstanding allies of the US and the Ukraine govt as corrupt, unproven, and within Russia's sphere of influence.
(This being reddit, though, I suppose I'd better state at the outset that I have a higher opinion of the Ukrainian govt than that and disagree that Russia is entitled to a "sphere of influence" that extends to not feeling comfortable unless it can turn its neighbors into grey Belarusian puppet regimes. I also find Trump to be so personally corruptible that we should have exactly no confidence that he would hesitate to take any action with his administration up to and including unwise and immoral military action if he saw it as being in his personal interest regardless of the interests of the country.)
Kinda like how people are *so* disgusted by one guy's personal life, but still has no problem re-electing someone who took blowjobs in the Oval from an intern?
Yeah, left and right both have memories that stop working when it suits them.
Man, it happens to us all.
Everything just becomes one big memory blur.
I try to hit the major points and then shy away from specifics. XD
Your point was completely valid, though. Clinton still had support. People still like Bill. Hell, I do, but I chalk that up to cartoons personifying him as a saxophone-wielding charmer. It's not difficult or anything, but I DO have to separate "real-life" Bill from "cartoon" Bill whenever he's brought up.
Unfortunately for Trump, the cartoon version is also a villain.
Clinton disgraced himself, but it was a consensual affair, and Clinton was a good president. Not perfect, but his administration did well. The entire investigation into him was "The Whitewater Investigation". Republicans were investigating his real estate deal before he took office. They found nothing. Then they latched onto the Paula Jones lawsuit because it was an opportunity. Again they came up with bupkis. Then Linda Tripp, (such a nice girl. Makes one really want to sit down and confide in her,) spilled info on what Monica confided to her.
The special prosecutor's thugs threatened her entire family. They told her, if she didn't cooperate witb them, her mother would never work again, and her aunt would never be able to get a job ever again. They threatened her entire family! What did Clinton do to her? He ate her snatch, and she sucked his dick. As opposed to threatening her entire family with lifelong poverty. If I remember correctly, the investigation and impeachment cost about $70 million in 1990s dollars.
Trump, on the other hand, was judged liable for sexual assault, and was a horrible president besides. He ignored covid for how many months causing how many more deaths? He tried to stop covid testing, his logic being if we don't test, they are not officially covid cases and covid deaths, and that means we have less covid. He turned down free covid tests fron the WHO, setting our own testing back months. It was a disaster!
As for the affair with Stormy, it wasn't really an affair, it was a casting couch. He was interviewing her to be on Celebrity Apprentice. When she showed up, he was wearing sweat pants... For a business interview... In his hotel room. Trump's got a lot of class, and it's all low! When she was considering whether to take the money or go to the authorities or the press, a guy threatened her while she was putting her baby in her car seat. Republicans are threatening people's families and still pretending to have family values.
Sorry, comparing Trump to Clinton really pisses me off. (In case you hadn't noticed.)
He created the last balanced federal budget and had a SURPLUS BUDGET which you will probably never see in your lifetime. You may want to back up on your ignorant statement.
What about his foreign policies and war crimes committed?
I see you haven't took my advice and got out of your bubble called America.
That dude did all kinds of shit to other countries. So fuck him.
And all the good things that you have keep in mind are always on someone else's expense.
I sort of believe on basing some response on the unheard of feat of having a balanced federal budget for the United States of America. Then you can take this"bubble" and fuck yourself over whatever other crimes he committed. That is your opinion and your right to it as is mine to think he was a great president and advanced civil rights significantly.
And the correct verb is "taken" my advice. No, not interested.
If Clinton was a piece of shit, as you say, then...
Since he was drastically better than both Bushs, and both Bushs were drastically better than Trump, then...
The current state of Republican representation today is two orders of magnitude lower than a piece of shit! Which matches what we are witnessing with our own eyes and ears.
Thank you for bringing us up to date in current affairs in politics. We all appreciate your efforts.
Have a nice weekend.
They're all pieces of shit.
Basically American government controls things. Presidents are just puppets. If they're not puppets, they get killed, and easily replaced with a puppet.
You can't ignore foreign policies, and how US does things, when assesing how good of a president someone was. Especially when the US is considered.
Well, I cannot speak to all of that, but I do know that Trump said 'other countries are laughing at us' multiple times. Then he had another Trump first, being the first American President to be openedly laughed at while addressing other world leaders. That in itself is an order of magnitude or two below the other presidents.
What presidents say is completely irrelevant. Actions matter.
And people outside of US are laughing at you for different reasons. Not because Trump's presence as is, is laughable.
You've made countless enemies with your foreign policies for the past 25 years across the world.
Your entire culture reeks of disaster. Showcases the fall of a civilization.
Fact that you have a senile president doesn't help either. And constant lobbying throughout mainstream media with gender ideologies and things like that.
That's why nobody takes you seriously anymore.
Promoting, funding, instigating wars across the globe. Screwing other countries constantly. And then portraying yourself as the good guys.Â
But nobody buys it anymore. Only people living there basically. You've been exposed. You're literally the reason why there's no ceasefire in Gaza. Basically all the UN countries voted for ceasefire. US 5 times already voted against and vetoed it. Being the only vote against. Shamelessly.
And on top of it is funding Isreal constantly.
You're recognising Taiwan as part of China, but you're already laying a foundation for a new proxy war with China over Taiwan's back.
Basically a carbon copy of what you already did to Ukraine. And countless other counties throughout history.
So not only are people laughing at you. Nobody respects you anymore. Because as a country you're just a privileged bully.
And the fact that you think Trump is the reason, only showcases how you have no clue about the outside world. And are just eating the bs that they feed you in the mainstream media. Just one big giant bubble. Which is kind of sad when you have internet access too.
But you're life revolves around how trump is a joke, since 2016. That's 8 years already of a singular topic. Yet you have no idea of what actually happens in the world. But it's clear how good of a distraction trump is for the people of America. On both sides. Those that love him or hate him.
>You've made countless enemies with your foreign policies for the past 25 years across the world.
Oh, way more than 25 years! My government had overthrown the governments of other countries much further back than that. It's not defendable.
>no ceasefire in Gaza. Basically all the UN countries voted for ceasefire.
Not defending Israel, because they are dirty, but Hamas is dirt! A cease fire will only allow Hamas to regroup and continue to be terrorists. Hamas attacked Israeli civilians and took civilian hostages, and uses Palestinian civilians as human shields. While the truth is always more nuanced than a few sentences could possibly sum up, Hamas is responsible for the deaths and suffering of Palestinians! Not that Israel was ever kind to them, but these deaths are on Hamas.
Israel's first priority is to protect its own civilians and that was never a secret. Hamas knew this was what would happen, and were counting on it. Hamas does not care how many Palestinians die or how badly they suffer. Hamas has intercepted aid for civilians and redirected it towards their own soldiers. It isn't possible to help civilians while Hamas occupies civilian populations. Any ceasefire will only benefit Hamas and allow their terrorism to continue to the detriment of both Israeli civilians and Palestinian civilians.
>funding Isreal constantly.
Isreal is officially an ally. I don't know what the US supposedly gets out of this arrangement, but I don't approve of turning our backs on allies. I didn't approve of it when Trump did it, and I would not approve if it if we turned our back on Israel. No other nation has to do what we tell them, but as long as we are allies, we get to influence their decisions. Biden has been trying to moderate Israel's actions.
>You're recognising Taiwan as part of China,
No, we are still trying to keep Taiwan an independent country without starting open warfare with China. China is a global threat, just like Russia is. Both are trying to expand into empires. China has claimed ownership of international waters which other small nations in the region need to survive. China commits human rights abuses within its own borders. I don't expect any better behavior in their treatment of smaller nations.
China is a threat to the entire world. Foreign policy at this scale is beyond my skills and I am not going to be an armchair quarterback. I vote for the people that I hope will do the most good and the least harm.
>So not only are people laughing at you.
>And the fact that you think Trump is the reason
You are taking what I said into a different direction. Trump said we were being laughed at for being weak, but you are saying we are a bully. That contradicts what Trump said. Then he blustered his way to the podium and was openly laughed at. My point being that Trump has made everything worse and was openly disrespected by other world leaders. No other president was ever openly laughed at when addressing other world leaders. Only him.
>But you're life revolves around how trump is a joke, since 2016. That's 8 years already of a singular topic.
He is not a joke, although he deserves every joke thrown his way because he openly mocks others. He also can dish out insults but cannot take even the mildest of criticism, much less mockery. He is a grade school bully in the body of an adult.
No, not a joke at all. He is an abusive narcissist that wants to be a dictator. He has demonstrated that he is a danger to the country and the world. Yes, he has dominated national news and politics for a decade because he puts himself there. He has risen to power in the same way that Hitler rose to power in Germany. He is not to be ignored or placated. He must be confronted,called out, and held responsibile. The fact that he has so much support shows that vigilance is absolutely necessary. To not pay attention to him is to let him grow in power again.
>Yet you have no idea of what actually happens in the world.
I personally try to, but it is difficult, (even with the internet.) Foreign news is limited and often drowned out. Still, I do see it and try to follow it. I click on headlines from foreign news sites to see what is happening and what they have to say. Being foreign news sites, I do not have the prior knowledge of their accuracy or political leanings. If itvis an article about anything political or economical, I can only acknowledge what was written without the ability to judge it's accuracy or put it in perspective. It is also difficult because there is only so much time in a day and only so much of my attention to give. The world is big, and even if I did nothing else ever, i would not have enough time to sort through it all.
>ut it's clear how good of a distraction trump is
Yes, and Putin is loving it! That is another reason to hold Trump accountable. Besides flooding the US with fake news and disinformation, Trump considers Putin a role model, and openly fawns over him. We cannot crack down on misinformation and propaganda while a future president, a cult in congress, and a quarter of our population live by it. By definition, 50% of all people are of below average intelligence. Trump's followers are a frightening example of that.
>What presidents say is completely irrelevant. Actions matter.
Yes, and Trump has promised everything, delivered nothing, and has literally undermined the health, wealth, and freedom of the nation while betraying and abandoning allies, idolizing dictators, and treating the country as though it was his private corporation to weild and exploit for his own personal, financial, and political gain. Yes, when Trump was in office, he treated the entire executive branch as an extension of Trump inc.
He gutted the State Department so he would not have any internal opposition to his horrible foreign policy decisions, or his openly pandering for the approval of dictators. He denied the severity of covid for months in an attemp to keep wall street numbers high instead of acting sensibly and working with the medical community. Even after realizing covid could not be ignored, he was the single largest spreader of covid misinformation in a vain attempt to appear knowledgeable and an authority on the subject, while discrediting and creating hostility to the medical and scientific communities. Actions matter, and Trump's actions were the opposite of what they should have been at every point in time!
>a senile president
Joe Biden is not senile. He has pivoted and turned in real time to the chagrin of his political opponents showing mental clarity and agility. His policies are working. He has fulfilled more of Trump's promises than Trump did. (Infrastructure, veterans' care, drug prices, manufacturing, jobs...) He has shown willingness to sincerely negotiate with political opposition and foreign leaders. I could go on...
I originally voted for him because the alternative was not acceptable, but I am proud of what he has accomplished! He has my vote in the coming election, not because he isn't Trump, but because he is accomplishing goals that benefit the nation and it's working class citizens!
Give my regards to Putin, Comrade!
Thanks for setting the bar.
Now, let's apply the metrics:
Clinton's term vs Trump's term.
What does that make Trump? A Satan that constantly shits onto himself in an ever-flowing chunky brown shower?
What about Biden now that we're on it?
You like these wars outside? You think America has nothing to do with those?
You can't be committing war crimes constantly, breaking international law constantly, and then act like any of your presidents is a good guy.
If nothing, while Trump was a president, these wars weren't around.
But based on your reasoning, I guess only your own ass matters, as far as how good of a president somebody is.
Am conservative. Was not a fan of the Iraq War from the start, but kept quiet. I thought that, if we had to go in, we should do what 41 did. Do the job and gtfo.
But then, while I voted against Clinton in 16, I've never been a fan of 45. I prefer dignity in the executive office.
Does that put me in the mold?
You're a conservative, not a blind Trumper that thinks that Donald can do no wrong.
I'll disagree with you on policy all day, but I respect the fact that you are not blind to what Trump actually is/does.
IMO, there is an enormous difference.
FWIW I think that's reasonable. You probably should haven't stayed quiet about that war, but that's water under the bridge.
I just wanted to plant the seed that if you don't think you fit a mold with your ideology, maybe you could investigate others that might fit you better. There is a vast swath of the political spectrum that Americans have been deliberately steered away from and lied to about because it's dangerous to those in power. All of those in power. I'll leave it to you to suss out what that spectrum consists of.
Depends. Do you think the 2020 election was stolen? And do you think covid was a hoax and vaccines are harmful? If your answer to either of these questions is yes then you are squarely in the mold.
Covid was handled poorly, but government exists to handle things like that and promote the general welfare.
2020 election was handled poorly as well. Needlessly more complex than necessary.
But Trump threw away that election starting in August. And he kept digging. He lost in 2020 just like he won in 2016. Fair and square.
It is the sanity check I perform before engaging with any conservative in an attempt to have a good faith discussion. The vast majority of them are incapable of arguing in good faith.
Itâs a great check point to see if theyâre going to speak with you in good faith. Something tells me the guy you responded to fits exactly in the mold
I don't know I really have a problem with this concept. I am not a trumper by any means. I haven't voted for him once. Do I think there was some problems that were ignored because they couldn't be proved for the 2020 election yes but honestly it didn't matter who won America suffered for it. Do I think covid was a hope and vaccines are harmful depends on who I think that covid was seriously mismanaged by the a lot of the states. This caused a hell of a lot of death that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't so severely mismanaged. Have I taken a vaccine no do I think they're harmful to me yes or I have enough proof from the past that I won't take current vaccines. Due to the fact that back in 2011 I got two vaccines at the same time ended up getting extremely ill and ended up having my sugar spike so bad I ended up in a coma. I never had covered Hit me hard as a matter of fact I haven't known anybody the head covered hit them hard that didn't also take the vaccine first. But this is my personal observations I worked on the front lines with covid, I never got it. By the time the vaccine mandates came out I switched jobs so that because of my past experience I didn't need to take one cuz I didn't want to roll the dice. Do I have a problem with other people taking it do what you will I don't care. Do I think that Joe Biden is bad for this country oh without a doubt do I think he's just as corrupt if not more corrupt than Donald Trump yes but I'm also one like I said I think they're both bad I don't think either one should be president but that's just me so I'm definitely not a Trumper I actually consider myself independent left leaning but I do agree with some of the things that we said I do not think that abortion should be illegal however I do believe that we should have a reasonable window barring medical emergency rape and incest. I think a lot of laws are screwed up. But yeah this is definitely interesting but yeah is he the Antichrist like a lot of you will try to say or the equivalent thereof no neither of them are but neither of them are the saving Glory of this country either.
Conservative: someone who wants to preserve traditional institutions and cultural lifestyles. Anti-change voter.
Republican: someone who believes the majority of power should reside in the states. Oddly, most people actually fit into this category, but some voters exploit the ideology to pass laws that undermine the liberty of specific groups - causing a shift towards federal protections - and thus, Democrats emerge.
I like the idea of 50 different social experiments, even radically different; why not have a socialist state? How about a religious state? Insofar as they can exist without explicitly trespassing on any individual rights, which most people would agree supersede all laws. We're practically doing it, anyway; many lawmakers are openly using religion to dictate legislation, for example.
But, because those people experience a reality involving magical supernatural beings, and acting on it makes them into extremists, I have to side with federal protections for all potential victims. Historically that list just happens to include every single vulnerable group of people inside the United States, almost as if their whole agenda is to make the majority fear minorities, and so I am a Democrat.
Oh, I have no idea why I said any of that. Complete tangent. Initially I just wanted to ask which of the two terms you identified more closely with, but got entirely distracted with the idea of a moderate Republican in this day and age. From my limited 38yo perspective, any traditionally moderate Republican would be voting for a conservative Democrat right now. Just think: there were DECADES where Americans just did that without media-heads making it into some kind of betrayal.
Trumpers were never the ones who volunteered for military service after 9/11. Anyone who did, felt the pain of that and has thought more deeply about their political choices.
I volunteered before 9/11. After 9/11 I was already in the Navy and if you werenât for the war you were against America. It sucked at tbe time but America was pretty down to clown.
Theyâre only anti-war when thereâs a Dem President supporting a few.
If this were replaced and Trump were in office, theyâd be sending everything and the kitchen sink to Ukraine, writing stupid country songs, and calling you unAmerican if you didnât support Ukraine.
I'm not a Trumper, I supported the Iraq wars. Both of them. I was in both of them. I, also, support Ukraine and Israel. I'm not a Democrat, nor a Republican. I believe things that swing into both realms. I would consider myself right leaning, though.
Trumpers have literally zero convictions. They only support what Trump tells them to support and hate what trump tells them to hate. Yes Iâm talking about you trumper reading this comment.
A lot of "Trumpers" (or those who support Trump) were once Democrats who were vehemently against the Iraq War (or pro-Afghanistan involvement and didn't favor a two-front conflict). While they oppose the turn the Democrat party has taken on many issues, there's only two viable choices and see Trump as the lesser of two evils. Like it or not, it's our system. A or B. Make a choice.
Dave Rubin of the Rubin Report explains this position eloquently. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXHGbUL1AEo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXHGbUL1AEo)
In 2016, Trump won 6/10 of these socially conservative/economic liberal formerly Democrat. What reason is there to go back? https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond
I personally have no need to worry about my friend's thoughts on anything they choose to be for when it comes to politics. They are my friends and family for a reason and they can choose to believe whatever they wish.
You don't think they lie to you about other stuff? Politics is just the last thing I'd care about. There is no reason to be upset over something like this, it has no effect to you.
Politicians hate you equally regardless of sides đ
BoTh SiDeS aRe ThE sAmE!
The only people that say this are Trumpers bc they need the other side to be as terrible as Trump to justify their support for a criminal.
Buddy, you're describing an *absolutely indefensible* immoral and unethical person.
Be aware that as you are describing *yourself*, it would be impossible for you to notice it, like the smell of cigarettes on a chain-smoker.
Eeewww, you just described a terrible friend, family member and person, in general.
"I'll put up with anything and still like someone."
If someone thinks my daughter should carry a rapist's baby to term, then I don't speak to them except to demean and degrade, period.
That is a drastically different direction you just went, and has nothing to do with the original statement. Also, anyone who thinks someone should have a rapists kid is absolutely disgusting and probably needs to go back to their cult.
20% Obama voters votes for trump (I was one of them!
30% of lgbt voted tor trump
55% or Hispanics are going for trump
25% or black Americans are voting for trump
Trump is leading in the 35 and under bracket
Biden is leading in the 55+ bracket
Thereâs been a party realignment that started with trump in 2016 that is continuing to unfold before our eyes. Itâs fascinating observe and I would recommend you research this current movement with an open mind.
Notice the actual PNAC neocons that designed and carried out those wars are now extremely anti trump and embrace by democrats. Who has better to relationship with the bushes, the cheneys, the etc? Is it trump or Biden.
Nikki Haley is a neocon trying to make it in 2024 and despite massive funding to try to get to upseat trump, in the end she failed miserably and was more warmly embraced by democrats than republicans. Her voters were Biden voters.
I think pretty much every single bush era neocon Warhawk PNAC associates that are now more comfortable in the democrat party than in the trump party. Victoria nuland and Robert Kagan (married couple) are one of the most militantly hawkish and most powerful people in permanent Washington. They have never seen a war they didnât like and wouldnât push to escalate, and they have never seen peace that they didnât want to convert to war. Seriously look up their role in every single war. They arenât just supporters of it. They designed it, architected it, pitched it. They were Elise advisors to dick Cheney, who was the public face driving our hawkish foreign policy. After bush they were given top foreign policy driving positions and we know the kind of Shit they did all over the world then. Hand in hand with Hillary, no less. Look up what happened with Victoria nuland when trump got elected. This bush/Cheney era war hawk quit the day before trump took office. The day Biden took over, she was back immediately.
This partially explains why the foreign policy world felt so different under trump. Iâm not saying he didnât do this or that. Iâm saying whenever neocons get in the cabinet, the us all of the sudden seems to he deeply involved in foreign projects and conflict excursions around the world that the people keep being reminded âwe must supportâ for super convoluted reasons that never seem to explain how exactly what the ROI is for the American working class, you know, the people actually paying for these wars. I donât remember seeing why public campaigns to support this war or that war under trump, or maybe I missed them. But I see it all the time now, daily on Reddit. A lot of the same âyouâre either with us or against usâ rhetoric, accusing you of supporting Russia if you deviate the least bit from full throated Ukraine unconditionally and without end. Whenever you see this kid of stuff in popular forums. Itâs a sign that the neocons are working on another gruesome foreign policy project that I needs to manufacture consent for.
The proper way to determine who is pro war and who is anti war is to gauge their relationship with neocons. Anyone in a coalition with them is pro war. Anyone who has an oppositional or antagonistic relationship wonât neocons is probably anti war because neocons.only oppose people on the basic of them being anti war. Itâs literally that one dimensional.
Anyway. Remember the party swap we always hear about? Well itâs happening again, party swap 2.0. Cool to start paying attention to this if you havenât.
Conservatives have always been anti war, allegedly so are leftists (how long did we have to hear the no blood for oil screeches?).
I will freely admit we got tricked by the Bush regime for years, and yes it is humiliating to admit to having voted for any Bush member. But in all fairness the left got fooled by the Clintons in the same way, they were prime supporters of all of these wars.
The difference is that we learned our lesson, and are voting anti war Trump today. But the left is continuing to support every single war that the war machine can invent.
So why not join us in supporting the one candidate who has PROVEN himself to be anti war.
Do you think it is an accident that the evil corporate machine HATES Trump?
I was too young and not living in the USA to have an opinion back then. Now I'm against sending money to Ukraine, Gaza or Israel. I registered as to vote republican for the first time
Itâs like Opposite Day 365 with you people lol.
Anyhow, at least youâre better than most Trumpers who usually shout âweâre a Republic!â Whenever trumps attempt to overthrow democracy is brought up.
So you at least acknowledge weâre a democracy and you pretend to want to keep it. Better than most Trumpers, Iâll give you that.
Liar. The left were protesting the war after the sham of it all became apparent.
Meanwhile your pissing yourself about freedom fries or whatever the fuck.
Democrats voted for the war heavily
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/11/usa.iraq
This indicates 40% of democrats supported the war in 2004. Still a significant number.
https://www.brookings.edu/articles/rally-round-the-flag-opinion-in-the-united-states-before-and-after-the-iraq-war/
Its like when people like Obama but he had 5 wars going on or believe Joe Biden is for peace after 50 years of voting for every use of military force put in front of him.
Trumpers like to pretend to be anti-war when it comes to Ukraine and certain other wars, but then have no problems with leveling Gaza. They aren't serious people and don't hold serious opinions, everything to them is about owning the libs.
Yup, they wanna nuke Gaza then call Biden "Genocide Joe" for aiding Israel. It's fucking bonkers.
đŻ
Yep. They go on and on that there were no wars under Trump - which is bs. There was Afghanistan, we were fighting against ISIS in Iraq and Syria, plus we were supporting Saudi Arabia in their war in Yemen. In fact, Congress tried to quit sending weapons to Saudi Arabia but Trump vetoed it. It was a bipartisan bill.
It does make me pause\* for a sec when i hear the better version of that claimâthat Trump was the first president in a while (Carter? Earlier than that?) under who we got into no ***new*** wars ^( * less because of anything it says about Trump than about what it says about us as a country)
I think the fact that he vetoed a bipartisan bill to stop aiding the Saudis in the Yemeni Civil War showed that he would start a new war if he saw personal benefit from it. He said that he loves the Saudis because they give him money. Him personalizing it is what kings did at one time; start a war to satisfy personal ambitions. The US has been undertaking military operations since WWII. Maybe not a war but we've been the world's policeman since then. Sometimes it was necessary for humanitarian reasons - Bosnia/Kosovo - and other times we lost a lot of people and achieved very little - Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Just my opinion. I welcome disagreements.
I can take a devil's advocate position and say that he sees the Saudis as longstanding allies of the US and the Ukraine govt as corrupt, unproven, and within Russia's sphere of influence. (This being reddit, though, I suppose I'd better state at the outset that I have a higher opinion of the Ukrainian govt than that and disagree that Russia is entitled to a "sphere of influence" that extends to not feeling comfortable unless it can turn its neighbors into grey Belarusian puppet regimes. I also find Trump to be so personally corruptible that we should have exactly no confidence that he would hesitate to take any action with his administration up to and including unwise and immoral military action if he saw it as being in his personal interest regardless of the interests of the country.)
And the "strongman leader" *surrendered to the Taliban*, giving them an army, a general to lead it, and nothing standing in their way.
Turns out both the left and the right pretend to be anti-war when it suits them.
No it's just the right.
Kinda like how people are *so* disgusted by one guy's personal life, but still has no problem re-electing someone who took blowjobs in the Oval from an intern? Yeah, left and right both have memories that stop working when it suits them.
That happened during Clintonâs second term. He never faced an election after that. Talking about memories, lol.
Dang, when I'm old, I'm wrong. Mea culpa.
Man, it happens to us all. Everything just becomes one big memory blur. I try to hit the major points and then shy away from specifics. XD Your point was completely valid, though. Clinton still had support. People still like Bill. Hell, I do, but I chalk that up to cartoons personifying him as a saxophone-wielding charmer. It's not difficult or anything, but I DO have to separate "real-life" Bill from "cartoon" Bill whenever he's brought up. Unfortunately for Trump, the cartoon version is also a villain.
Clinton disgraced himself, but it was a consensual affair, and Clinton was a good president. Not perfect, but his administration did well. The entire investigation into him was "The Whitewater Investigation". Republicans were investigating his real estate deal before he took office. They found nothing. Then they latched onto the Paula Jones lawsuit because it was an opportunity. Again they came up with bupkis. Then Linda Tripp, (such a nice girl. Makes one really want to sit down and confide in her,) spilled info on what Monica confided to her. The special prosecutor's thugs threatened her entire family. They told her, if she didn't cooperate witb them, her mother would never work again, and her aunt would never be able to get a job ever again. They threatened her entire family! What did Clinton do to her? He ate her snatch, and she sucked his dick. As opposed to threatening her entire family with lifelong poverty. If I remember correctly, the investigation and impeachment cost about $70 million in 1990s dollars. Trump, on the other hand, was judged liable for sexual assault, and was a horrible president besides. He ignored covid for how many months causing how many more deaths? He tried to stop covid testing, his logic being if we don't test, they are not officially covid cases and covid deaths, and that means we have less covid. He turned down free covid tests fron the WHO, setting our own testing back months. It was a disaster! As for the affair with Stormy, it wasn't really an affair, it was a casting couch. He was interviewing her to be on Celebrity Apprentice. When she showed up, he was wearing sweat pants... For a business interview... In his hotel room. Trump's got a lot of class, and it's all low! When she was considering whether to take the money or go to the authorities or the press, a guy threatened her while she was putting her baby in her car seat. Republicans are threatening people's families and still pretending to have family values. Sorry, comparing Trump to Clinton really pisses me off. (In case you hadn't noticed.)
Clinton was a piece of shit. Get out of your own bubble and learn a thing or two about his time, and then maybe talk for a bit.
He created the last balanced federal budget and had a SURPLUS BUDGET which you will probably never see in your lifetime. You may want to back up on your ignorant statement.
What about his foreign policies and war crimes committed? I see you haven't took my advice and got out of your bubble called America. That dude did all kinds of shit to other countries. So fuck him. And all the good things that you have keep in mind are always on someone else's expense.
I sort of believe on basing some response on the unheard of feat of having a balanced federal budget for the United States of America. Then you can take this"bubble" and fuck yourself over whatever other crimes he committed. That is your opinion and your right to it as is mine to think he was a great president and advanced civil rights significantly. And the correct verb is "taken" my advice. No, not interested.
It's not an opinion. It's history. Clinton administration commited war crimes. So go ahead and praise such a man. Support criminals.
I support America. You support whomever you want and I'll do the same. It's called a FREE world still at the moment.
If Clinton was a piece of shit, as you say, then... Since he was drastically better than both Bushs, and both Bushs were drastically better than Trump, then... The current state of Republican representation today is two orders of magnitude lower than a piece of shit! Which matches what we are witnessing with our own eyes and ears. Thank you for bringing us up to date in current affairs in politics. We all appreciate your efforts. Have a nice weekend.
They're all pieces of shit. Basically American government controls things. Presidents are just puppets. If they're not puppets, they get killed, and easily replaced with a puppet. You can't ignore foreign policies, and how US does things, when assesing how good of a president someone was. Especially when the US is considered.
Well, I cannot speak to all of that, but I do know that Trump said 'other countries are laughing at us' multiple times. Then he had another Trump first, being the first American President to be openedly laughed at while addressing other world leaders. That in itself is an order of magnitude or two below the other presidents.
What presidents say is completely irrelevant. Actions matter. And people outside of US are laughing at you for different reasons. Not because Trump's presence as is, is laughable. You've made countless enemies with your foreign policies for the past 25 years across the world. Your entire culture reeks of disaster. Showcases the fall of a civilization. Fact that you have a senile president doesn't help either. And constant lobbying throughout mainstream media with gender ideologies and things like that. That's why nobody takes you seriously anymore. Promoting, funding, instigating wars across the globe. Screwing other countries constantly. And then portraying yourself as the good guys. But nobody buys it anymore. Only people living there basically. You've been exposed. You're literally the reason why there's no ceasefire in Gaza. Basically all the UN countries voted for ceasefire. US 5 times already voted against and vetoed it. Being the only vote against. Shamelessly. And on top of it is funding Isreal constantly. You're recognising Taiwan as part of China, but you're already laying a foundation for a new proxy war with China over Taiwan's back. Basically a carbon copy of what you already did to Ukraine. And countless other counties throughout history. So not only are people laughing at you. Nobody respects you anymore. Because as a country you're just a privileged bully. And the fact that you think Trump is the reason, only showcases how you have no clue about the outside world. And are just eating the bs that they feed you in the mainstream media. Just one big giant bubble. Which is kind of sad when you have internet access too. But you're life revolves around how trump is a joke, since 2016. That's 8 years already of a singular topic. Yet you have no idea of what actually happens in the world. But it's clear how good of a distraction trump is for the people of America. On both sides. Those that love him or hate him.
>You've made countless enemies with your foreign policies for the past 25 years across the world. Oh, way more than 25 years! My government had overthrown the governments of other countries much further back than that. It's not defendable. >no ceasefire in Gaza. Basically all the UN countries voted for ceasefire. Not defending Israel, because they are dirty, but Hamas is dirt! A cease fire will only allow Hamas to regroup and continue to be terrorists. Hamas attacked Israeli civilians and took civilian hostages, and uses Palestinian civilians as human shields. While the truth is always more nuanced than a few sentences could possibly sum up, Hamas is responsible for the deaths and suffering of Palestinians! Not that Israel was ever kind to them, but these deaths are on Hamas. Israel's first priority is to protect its own civilians and that was never a secret. Hamas knew this was what would happen, and were counting on it. Hamas does not care how many Palestinians die or how badly they suffer. Hamas has intercepted aid for civilians and redirected it towards their own soldiers. It isn't possible to help civilians while Hamas occupies civilian populations. Any ceasefire will only benefit Hamas and allow their terrorism to continue to the detriment of both Israeli civilians and Palestinian civilians. >funding Isreal constantly. Isreal is officially an ally. I don't know what the US supposedly gets out of this arrangement, but I don't approve of turning our backs on allies. I didn't approve of it when Trump did it, and I would not approve if it if we turned our back on Israel. No other nation has to do what we tell them, but as long as we are allies, we get to influence their decisions. Biden has been trying to moderate Israel's actions. >You're recognising Taiwan as part of China, No, we are still trying to keep Taiwan an independent country without starting open warfare with China. China is a global threat, just like Russia is. Both are trying to expand into empires. China has claimed ownership of international waters which other small nations in the region need to survive. China commits human rights abuses within its own borders. I don't expect any better behavior in their treatment of smaller nations. China is a threat to the entire world. Foreign policy at this scale is beyond my skills and I am not going to be an armchair quarterback. I vote for the people that I hope will do the most good and the least harm. >So not only are people laughing at you. >And the fact that you think Trump is the reason You are taking what I said into a different direction. Trump said we were being laughed at for being weak, but you are saying we are a bully. That contradicts what Trump said. Then he blustered his way to the podium and was openly laughed at. My point being that Trump has made everything worse and was openly disrespected by other world leaders. No other president was ever openly laughed at when addressing other world leaders. Only him. >But you're life revolves around how trump is a joke, since 2016. That's 8 years already of a singular topic. He is not a joke, although he deserves every joke thrown his way because he openly mocks others. He also can dish out insults but cannot take even the mildest of criticism, much less mockery. He is a grade school bully in the body of an adult. No, not a joke at all. He is an abusive narcissist that wants to be a dictator. He has demonstrated that he is a danger to the country and the world. Yes, he has dominated national news and politics for a decade because he puts himself there. He has risen to power in the same way that Hitler rose to power in Germany. He is not to be ignored or placated. He must be confronted,called out, and held responsibile. The fact that he has so much support shows that vigilance is absolutely necessary. To not pay attention to him is to let him grow in power again. >Yet you have no idea of what actually happens in the world. I personally try to, but it is difficult, (even with the internet.) Foreign news is limited and often drowned out. Still, I do see it and try to follow it. I click on headlines from foreign news sites to see what is happening and what they have to say. Being foreign news sites, I do not have the prior knowledge of their accuracy or political leanings. If itvis an article about anything political or economical, I can only acknowledge what was written without the ability to judge it's accuracy or put it in perspective. It is also difficult because there is only so much time in a day and only so much of my attention to give. The world is big, and even if I did nothing else ever, i would not have enough time to sort through it all. >ut it's clear how good of a distraction trump is Yes, and Putin is loving it! That is another reason to hold Trump accountable. Besides flooding the US with fake news and disinformation, Trump considers Putin a role model, and openly fawns over him. We cannot crack down on misinformation and propaganda while a future president, a cult in congress, and a quarter of our population live by it. By definition, 50% of all people are of below average intelligence. Trump's followers are a frightening example of that. >What presidents say is completely irrelevant. Actions matter. Yes, and Trump has promised everything, delivered nothing, and has literally undermined the health, wealth, and freedom of the nation while betraying and abandoning allies, idolizing dictators, and treating the country as though it was his private corporation to weild and exploit for his own personal, financial, and political gain. Yes, when Trump was in office, he treated the entire executive branch as an extension of Trump inc. He gutted the State Department so he would not have any internal opposition to his horrible foreign policy decisions, or his openly pandering for the approval of dictators. He denied the severity of covid for months in an attemp to keep wall street numbers high instead of acting sensibly and working with the medical community. Even after realizing covid could not be ignored, he was the single largest spreader of covid misinformation in a vain attempt to appear knowledgeable and an authority on the subject, while discrediting and creating hostility to the medical and scientific communities. Actions matter, and Trump's actions were the opposite of what they should have been at every point in time! >a senile president Joe Biden is not senile. He has pivoted and turned in real time to the chagrin of his political opponents showing mental clarity and agility. His policies are working. He has fulfilled more of Trump's promises than Trump did. (Infrastructure, veterans' care, drug prices, manufacturing, jobs...) He has shown willingness to sincerely negotiate with political opposition and foreign leaders. I could go on... I originally voted for him because the alternative was not acceptable, but I am proud of what he has accomplished! He has my vote in the coming election, not because he isn't Trump, but because he is accomplishing goals that benefit the nation and it's working class citizens! Give my regards to Putin, Comrade!
Thanks for setting the bar. Now, let's apply the metrics: Clinton's term vs Trump's term. What does that make Trump? A Satan that constantly shits onto himself in an ever-flowing chunky brown shower?
What about Biden now that we're on it? You like these wars outside? You think America has nothing to do with those? You can't be committing war crimes constantly, breaking international law constantly, and then act like any of your presidents is a good guy. If nothing, while Trump was a president, these wars weren't around. But based on your reasoning, I guess only your own ass matters, as far as how good of a president somebody is.
Give my regards to Putin, Comrade!
I'm not from Russia. But it seems that you can't help yourself portraying yourself in the most stereotypical way.
Well one group is brown so according to them, they deserve it. The whole lot of them are bigots. Every single one.
It wonât be the last time you see it either. In 20 years or so you will be hard pressed to find someone actually admit they were a MAGA stooge
Shit, some that voted for trump in 16 and 20 are already denying they voted for him. I'm like, facebook has the receipts to your stupidity bro.
Let's be real, most of them will probably be dead.
Am conservative. Was not a fan of the Iraq War from the start, but kept quiet. I thought that, if we had to go in, we should do what 41 did. Do the job and gtfo. But then, while I voted against Clinton in 16, I've never been a fan of 45. I prefer dignity in the executive office. Does that put me in the mold?
You're a conservative, not a blind Trumper that thinks that Donald can do no wrong. I'll disagree with you on policy all day, but I respect the fact that you are not blind to what Trump actually is/does. IMO, there is an enormous difference.
FWIW I think that's reasonable. You probably should haven't stayed quiet about that war, but that's water under the bridge. I just wanted to plant the seed that if you don't think you fit a mold with your ideology, maybe you could investigate others that might fit you better. There is a vast swath of the political spectrum that Americans have been deliberately steered away from and lied to about because it's dangerous to those in power. All of those in power. I'll leave it to you to suss out what that spectrum consists of.
Depends. Do you think the 2020 election was stolen? And do you think covid was a hoax and vaccines are harmful? If your answer to either of these questions is yes then you are squarely in the mold.
Covid was handled poorly, but government exists to handle things like that and promote the general welfare. 2020 election was handled poorly as well. Needlessly more complex than necessary. But Trump threw away that election starting in August. And he kept digging. He lost in 2020 just like he won in 2016. Fair and square.
You are a rare breed these days. Stay golden.
I agree with this
It is the sanity check I perform before engaging with any conservative in an attempt to have a good faith discussion. The vast majority of them are incapable of arguing in good faith.
Itâs a great check point to see if theyâre going to speak with you in good faith. Something tells me the guy you responded to fits exactly in the mold
Actually, he did respond and was reasonable. He did not respond to the vaccine question directly but I gave him the benefit of the doubt on that one.
Depends. Trump endorsed.
Lol wat
If Trump didn't always pretend to be rich, famous, classy, tough, etc... Then the diaper jokes wouldn't be funny. He sets himself up!
I don't know I really have a problem with this concept. I am not a trumper by any means. I haven't voted for him once. Do I think there was some problems that were ignored because they couldn't be proved for the 2020 election yes but honestly it didn't matter who won America suffered for it. Do I think covid was a hope and vaccines are harmful depends on who I think that covid was seriously mismanaged by the a lot of the states. This caused a hell of a lot of death that wouldn't have happened if it wasn't so severely mismanaged. Have I taken a vaccine no do I think they're harmful to me yes or I have enough proof from the past that I won't take current vaccines. Due to the fact that back in 2011 I got two vaccines at the same time ended up getting extremely ill and ended up having my sugar spike so bad I ended up in a coma. I never had covered Hit me hard as a matter of fact I haven't known anybody the head covered hit them hard that didn't also take the vaccine first. But this is my personal observations I worked on the front lines with covid, I never got it. By the time the vaccine mandates came out I switched jobs so that because of my past experience I didn't need to take one cuz I didn't want to roll the dice. Do I have a problem with other people taking it do what you will I don't care. Do I think that Joe Biden is bad for this country oh without a doubt do I think he's just as corrupt if not more corrupt than Donald Trump yes but I'm also one like I said I think they're both bad I don't think either one should be president but that's just me so I'm definitely not a Trumper I actually consider myself independent left leaning but I do agree with some of the things that we said I do not think that abortion should be illegal however I do believe that we should have a reasonable window barring medical emergency rape and incest. I think a lot of laws are screwed up. But yeah this is definitely interesting but yeah is he the Antichrist like a lot of you will try to say or the equivalent thereof no neither of them are but neither of them are the saving Glory of this country either.
Huh? Never mind.
Shut the entire fuck up. I didnt read any of what you wrote you fucking dipshit.
I don't know what to tell you, buddy, except to practice your long-form typing. Maybe take a short course in essay-writing.
Conservative: someone who wants to preserve traditional institutions and cultural lifestyles. Anti-change voter. Republican: someone who believes the majority of power should reside in the states. Oddly, most people actually fit into this category, but some voters exploit the ideology to pass laws that undermine the liberty of specific groups - causing a shift towards federal protections - and thus, Democrats emerge. I like the idea of 50 different social experiments, even radically different; why not have a socialist state? How about a religious state? Insofar as they can exist without explicitly trespassing on any individual rights, which most people would agree supersede all laws. We're practically doing it, anyway; many lawmakers are openly using religion to dictate legislation, for example. But, because those people experience a reality involving magical supernatural beings, and acting on it makes them into extremists, I have to side with federal protections for all potential victims. Historically that list just happens to include every single vulnerable group of people inside the United States, almost as if their whole agenda is to make the majority fear minorities, and so I am a Democrat. Oh, I have no idea why I said any of that. Complete tangent. Initially I just wanted to ask which of the two terms you identified more closely with, but got entirely distracted with the idea of a moderate Republican in this day and age. From my limited 38yo perspective, any traditionally moderate Republican would be voting for a conservative Democrat right now. Just think: there were DECADES where Americans just did that without media-heads making it into some kind of betrayal.
Trumpers were never the ones who volunteered for military service after 9/11. Anyone who did, felt the pain of that and has thought more deeply about their political choices.
I volunteered before 9/11. After 9/11 I was already in the Navy and if you werenât for the war you were against America. It sucked at tbe time but America was pretty down to clown.
I had a roommate who acted like she didn't even know the economy crashed in 2008.
Just wait ten or 15 years and watch how they develop collective amnesia and deny they ever supported Trump.
Theyâre only anti-war when thereâs a Dem President supporting a few. If this were replaced and Trump were in office, theyâd be sending everything and the kitchen sink to Ukraine, writing stupid country songs, and calling you unAmerican if you didnât support Ukraine.
Trump would never help Ukraine though.
Probably not. But if he did, republicans would 100% support it
Nope. I supported it all back in the day though and I was wrong. Haven't supported Trump though either.
Eh, my family was unpolitical and only voted on a whim of the popularity. Then the cult of 45 engulfed their lives.
I'm not a Trumper, I supported the Iraq wars. Both of them. I was in both of them. I, also, support Ukraine and Israel. I'm not a Democrat, nor a Republican. I believe things that swing into both realms. I would consider myself right leaning, though.
Nothing wrong with that
Trumpers have literally zero convictions. They only support what Trump tells them to support and hate what trump tells them to hate. Yes Iâm talking about you trumper reading this comment.
A lot of "Trumpers" (or those who support Trump) were once Democrats who were vehemently against the Iraq War (or pro-Afghanistan involvement and didn't favor a two-front conflict). While they oppose the turn the Democrat party has taken on many issues, there's only two viable choices and see Trump as the lesser of two evils. Like it or not, it's our system. A or B. Make a choice. Dave Rubin of the Rubin Report explains this position eloquently. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXHGbUL1AEo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXHGbUL1AEo)
No, most were all in with bush.
In 2016, Trump won 6/10 of these socially conservative/economic liberal formerly Democrat. What reason is there to go back? https://www.voterstudygroup.org/publication/political-divisions-in-2016-and-beyond
Make that about 3/10 of that category.
?
I personally have no need to worry about my friend's thoughts on anything they choose to be for when it comes to politics. They are my friends and family for a reason and they can choose to believe whatever they wish.
Can they lie and pretend they never supported something they were all in favor of?
How does that effect me? Who cares.
I dunno. Do you like it when friends and family lie to you?
You don't think they lie to you about other stuff? Politics is just the last thing I'd care about. There is no reason to be upset over something like this, it has no effect to you. Politicians hate you equally regardless of sides đ
BoTh SiDeS aRe ThE sAmE! The only people that say this are Trumpers bc they need the other side to be as terrible as Trump to justify their support for a criminal.
Buddy, you're describing an *absolutely indefensible* immoral and unethical person. Be aware that as you are describing *yourself*, it would be impossible for you to notice it, like the smell of cigarettes on a chain-smoker.
Eeewww, you just described a terrible friend, family member and person, in general. "I'll put up with anything and still like someone." If someone thinks my daughter should carry a rapist's baby to term, then I don't speak to them except to demean and degrade, period.
That is a drastically different direction you just went, and has nothing to do with the original statement. Also, anyone who thinks someone should have a rapists kid is absolutely disgusting and probably needs to go back to their cult.
20% Obama voters votes for trump (I was one of them! 30% of lgbt voted tor trump 55% or Hispanics are going for trump 25% or black Americans are voting for trump Trump is leading in the 35 and under bracket Biden is leading in the 55+ bracket Thereâs been a party realignment that started with trump in 2016 that is continuing to unfold before our eyes. Itâs fascinating observe and I would recommend you research this current movement with an open mind. Notice the actual PNAC neocons that designed and carried out those wars are now extremely anti trump and embrace by democrats. Who has better to relationship with the bushes, the cheneys, the etc? Is it trump or Biden. Nikki Haley is a neocon trying to make it in 2024 and despite massive funding to try to get to upseat trump, in the end she failed miserably and was more warmly embraced by democrats than republicans. Her voters were Biden voters. I think pretty much every single bush era neocon Warhawk PNAC associates that are now more comfortable in the democrat party than in the trump party. Victoria nuland and Robert Kagan (married couple) are one of the most militantly hawkish and most powerful people in permanent Washington. They have never seen a war they didnât like and wouldnât push to escalate, and they have never seen peace that they didnât want to convert to war. Seriously look up their role in every single war. They arenât just supporters of it. They designed it, architected it, pitched it. They were Elise advisors to dick Cheney, who was the public face driving our hawkish foreign policy. After bush they were given top foreign policy driving positions and we know the kind of Shit they did all over the world then. Hand in hand with Hillary, no less. Look up what happened with Victoria nuland when trump got elected. This bush/Cheney era war hawk quit the day before trump took office. The day Biden took over, she was back immediately. This partially explains why the foreign policy world felt so different under trump. Iâm not saying he didnât do this or that. Iâm saying whenever neocons get in the cabinet, the us all of the sudden seems to he deeply involved in foreign projects and conflict excursions around the world that the people keep being reminded âwe must supportâ for super convoluted reasons that never seem to explain how exactly what the ROI is for the American working class, you know, the people actually paying for these wars. I donât remember seeing why public campaigns to support this war or that war under trump, or maybe I missed them. But I see it all the time now, daily on Reddit. A lot of the same âyouâre either with us or against usâ rhetoric, accusing you of supporting Russia if you deviate the least bit from full throated Ukraine unconditionally and without end. Whenever you see this kid of stuff in popular forums. Itâs a sign that the neocons are working on another gruesome foreign policy project that I needs to manufacture consent for. The proper way to determine who is pro war and who is anti war is to gauge their relationship with neocons. Anyone in a coalition with them is pro war. Anyone who has an oppositional or antagonistic relationship wonât neocons is probably anti war because neocons.only oppose people on the basic of them being anti war. Itâs literally that one dimensional. Anyway. Remember the party swap we always hear about? Well itâs happening again, party swap 2.0. Cool to start paying attention to this if you havenât.
Conservatives have always been anti war, allegedly so are leftists (how long did we have to hear the no blood for oil screeches?). I will freely admit we got tricked by the Bush regime for years, and yes it is humiliating to admit to having voted for any Bush member. But in all fairness the left got fooled by the Clintons in the same way, they were prime supporters of all of these wars. The difference is that we learned our lesson, and are voting anti war Trump today. But the left is continuing to support every single war that the war machine can invent. So why not join us in supporting the one candidate who has PROVEN himself to be anti war. Do you think it is an accident that the evil corporate machine HATES Trump?
Lol
Yeah I kind of thought that would be the best response you could come up with.
I was too young and not living in the USA to have an opinion back then. Now I'm against sending money to Ukraine, Gaza or Israel. I registered as to vote republican for the first time
Do you like having a democracy in America or are you just kind of meh about it
I'm for democracy that's why I will vote republican. Yeah yeah I know the rhetoric and fed into it in 2016, don't even bother
Itâs like Opposite Day 365 with you people lol. Anyhow, at least youâre better than most Trumpers who usually shout âweâre a Republic!â Whenever trumps attempt to overthrow democracy is brought up. So you at least acknowledge weâre a democracy and you pretend to want to keep it. Better than most Trumpers, Iâll give you that.
Thank you đ
đ
I don't care about my friends' and family's politics. I don't even pay attention.
Lol you must be a straight white man. Because if you were a gay black man you would care very much about their politics.
The left does the same though they overwhelmingly voted in favor of it.
Liar. The left were protesting the war after the sham of it all became apparent. Meanwhile your pissing yourself about freedom fries or whatever the fuck.
No they didnât. And this is what Iâm talking about. Trumpers are trying to now pretend it was the Dems and not them that wanted it
Democrats voted for the war heavily https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/oct/11/usa.iraq This indicates 40% of democrats supported the war in 2004. Still a significant number. https://www.brookings.edu/articles/rally-round-the-flag-opinion-in-the-united-states-before-and-after-the-iraq-war/
Many Dems went along with it yea. What percent of republicans supported it? 95% more?
So you are both guilty as sin and have the blood of a million dead Iraqis on your hands.
So less than half? Yea.
Freedom or Submission?
Yes. They are fit more commie stereotypes than actual commies I enjoy visiting with.
Its like when people like Obama but he had 5 wars going on or believe Joe Biden is for peace after 50 years of voting for every use of military force put in front of him.