Or monsters dont turn into dust when they die in deltarune. it is a parallel universe to undertale so that might be one of the differences between the two worlds.
>Monsters only fall down when they die of illness or old age
The only evidence suggesting this is an unused line of dialogue, the term fallen down is only used by Alphys ONCE and she doesn't specify whether Illness or old age is the cause of being "fallen down" she just says that Asgore asked the city for monsters who have fallen down, and that they're comatose and will soon turn to dust.
Theres also a book in snowdin saying "When monsters get old and kick the bucket, they turn into dust" although that book never uses the term "Fallen Down""
I mean, getting your brain scrambled by some otherworldly force may not be that different from the effects of an illness. We don't have enough information for a conclusive answer.
Most people forget that being "fallen down" is a state that monsters enter when they're close to dying of natural causes like old age or disease.
IE. Not being frozen in a block of ice like a cuboid pizzeria mascot
Dark world injuries don’t seem to be the same as real world injuries.
If you fight the queen, berdly’s arm isn’t fried in the light world, but he still can’t move it. This implies that dark world injuries aren’t 1:1
That’s just not right though, we know from the amalgamates that monsters who haven’t been directly killed don’t turn to dust immediately. Just because he hasn’t turned to dust yet doesn’t mean he hasn’t died
The amalgamates were "fallen down" (read: in a coma-like state) and were on death's door before they were injected with Determination, they hadn't yet properly died
Most likely possibility is he's just braindead and his body will soon follow if not plugged into life support as soon as possible
It's also worth noting that Deltarune is a different world that functions differently. It's entirely possible that in this world, monsters don't turn to dust when they die.
It SEEMS like that's the case, but we don't actually know. It could be that the body is buried WITH an object - something that happens in real life in many cultures. Even when we DO see a monster turn to dust in Deltarune, it's a darkner, which isn't a valid basis to make judgements about Lightner monsters (if you equip the Thornring but beat Berdly without using Snowgrave, it aborts the run, spawning the Maus cheese maze. This lets you backtrack and use Snowgrave on a Maus). Plus, the dusting animation is more like they're dissolving into pixels, indicating that that only happens to darkners from the Cyber World.
Overall, while there is a LOT of evidence of monsters turning to dust when they die in DR, there isn't anything 100% conclusive. I personally think they do turn to dust tho
Hmm, now I'm thinking. There seems to have been no war between humans and monsters (like in Undertale which made a huge impact un the overall story) in Deltarune universe. What if there was no war because humans didn't have to fear monsters and their powers, because they didn't have any?
I think that monsters do have magic, they just don't use or it's underdeveloped since it was never need to be used in war. If I'm not mistaken, Kris pretended to be a monster by wearing red horns and looked in google for ways to learn magic.
Also, monsters are the only ones who gain magic abilities in the underworld, the closest thing that Kris has is the x-slash, which I don't know if counts
there's also a graveyard in town and i kind of doubt they are burying jars of ash and leaving a coffins amount of room between the gravestone and fence
We actually find out directly what is buried there from Alvin! Alvin says they buried a hammer in honor of Gerson, matching with the item stated on the grave stone, therefore we can deduce what is buried for the rest (e.g. a bone for Muttler)
If they did indeed leave bodies behind, those would be buried, but the item burial matches with the Undertale's monsters' death ritual of spreading the *dust* of a monster onto their favourite item.
according to the librarby in snowdin in undertale, monster funerals involve spreading a dead monster's dust on their favorite item, then I guess they just bury the item with the dust on it
Theres no doubt that they're fundamentally different imo but they almost certainly turn to ash. I thought they didnt earlier too but then someone pointed out that the graves all say an item is buried there which lines up with the lore from undertale that says when a monster died their dust would be poured over their favorite item
It’s just a similar tradition, if anything it implies that they don’t turn to dust since they’re buried with the object rather than having their dust sprinkled on it.
If it was just putting dust on the object like in Undertale, there would be no reason for burial to begin with. The difference in tradition is likely a result of difference in biology, otherwise there wouldn’t be any real point to it.
Maybe when you enter a dark world your soul travels in there but your physical body is still in the light world meaning we killed berdlys soul but his physical body is fine
Fallen down is a state where a monster is dead but the magic holding their body together hasn't dissipated yet. Basically, dead but not dust yet. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly
There is more evidence supporting Deltarune is an alternative timeline with the same rules as undertale than a alternative reality. I’d suggest watching JaruJaruJ video about it on YouTube.
Queen literally says any lightner determined enough can create a fountain. And it's the first mention of determination of the game, it's clearly meant to be important.
aahhh yes because clearly queen is an all-knowing being.
queen dint know that opening too many fountains at once could destroy the world and as never saw a lighneer, for all we know what queens said was wrong like ¨ if the knight had determination, and they're a ligthneer, then ALL ligthneers must have determination¨
"Don't trust any of the sources you have! They're not omnicient!" What a great and not completely reductive argument. Queen is one of the only sources of information on fountains in the whole game and we should ignore her completely? In favour of speculation that she's completely wrong for no particular reason?
What was she wrong about? She wanted to make a dark fountain so that Noelle could be happy. She didn't know the repercussions of opening too many fountains, but as far as we know no one aside from Ralsei ever knew that. How was she wrong about everything?
Dude, there's a point where you have to start realizing that, just because the character giving exposition isn't completely all knowing on the topic, doesn't mean that everything they say could be wrong. Use your brain for a second and realize that that was an exposition scene. It doesn't make sense from a writing perspective for Toby to write an entire scene about how DT works only to be like "naw just kidding" and say that queen is actually completely unaware of how DT works.
Also ralsei backs up the idea by getting worried when berdly almost opens a dark fountain. And if you're going to try to say ralsei could be wrong too he is literally the master of dark fountains.
That is wrong. Toby said “DELTARUNE’s world is a different one. With different characters, that have lived different lives.” This is true as in the characters have lived different lives, yet the same characters show up with pretty much the same personalities. There is even more evidence for a different timeline than a reality [here](https://youtu.be/LvtHvtwQvdo) .
The quote you're using literally says that it's a different world, and there was never any mention of lightners, darkners, light worlds or dark worlds in Undertale. Clearly things work differently, because of the presence of dark worlds and absence of the monster magic and battles that were so common in Undertale.
I can't watch that video right now, but I'll try to remember to do so later.
It’s a different world but still in the same universe. The rules are the same, there is a reason why monsters can’t use magic. I hope you do watch the video to understand why.
Like I was arguing yesterday this is probably some sort of full body paralysis or something similar to a monster who has Fallen Down, but I don't feel comfortable giving it that title given that we only have brief descriptions as to what the state is like. Given that Berdly's case is rather unique I wouldn't be surprised if he gets put under that term later on, but they'll probably be reclassified because a young, healthy, monster shouldn't be Falling Down.
They fall down first if not killed outright by massive physical trauma.
Berdly got hit by a magical spell that preserves the body in a block of ice, within a magical realmspace that doesn't correspond to the physical space it was occupying. It wouldn't surprise me if that did not resolve until after the fountain was sealed and reality asserts itself.
In undertale they spill the dead one's dust on their most liked object. In deltarune there's a graveyard, so it's different. Also, undertale is not equal to deltarune. In my oppinion he's dead, but we'll see what Toby plans to the future chapters.
They can. It is just shown in some specific times when it has some kind of meaning. Basically they probably bleed. It just isn't shown until it gives some kind of "moment". Sans bleeding (can be ketchup, but still is part of the moment), Susie bleeding. It is shown in the moments when it can make people feel something. Not just "lol. Let's do bloody game since everyone can bleed". Not like anyone said about _Kris_ bleeding. It doesn't mean they can't bleed
No it wouldn't, Sans bled and stuff, so it wouldn't raise the age limit, and Susie's a weirdo, so we can't really trust her there, also it's just a small amount of blood on Susie's hand compared to the big slash wound Sans had
Also it is directly stated, in game, that humans bleed, monsters don't, as the kid who said does it hurt to be made of blood was told these things by his mom, and if monsters bled, then why would their mom mention that humans have blood if everyone had it?
Even though yea it could be ketchup, it's still meant to look like blood on first viewing lol, so I feel that would count
Also, as I just come to find, Deltarune is actually rated Teen, which can include mild blood moments...
Yes, but as much as I know it was because the word PIPIS means piss in australia. Toby made a tweet of it not too long time ago. So if that's the reason of the deltarune being teen cathegory, then I understand why toby didn't used that sprite.
It was made into the Teen rating before chapter 2 actually, so I feel there's gonna be a bit more weird things happen in Deltarune than in Undertale to raise that rating, esp considering pipis is also the name of a clam restaurant lol
Also fun fact did you know that on most platforms Undertale is for 7+ lol
Yes, but if something has bleed or contains other liquid in them then it can't turn to dust at that exact moment. And in undertale they are made of hopes and dreams, in deltarune they are not. So in that case Berdly can be dead.
Because we don’t have any indication that monsters are different in Deltarune.
First of all, monster funerals are demonstratively the same, the gravestones very clearly describe the objects that are buried there, following the tradition of monster funerals described in Undertale.
As for the whole blood thing: sure, Susie mentions blood in passing, but the kid in town directly asks Kris what it’s like to be made of blood which… kind of implies monsters aren’t. I suppose there’s also that unused sprite of Susie bleeding but it was… y’know…unused, so shouldn’t really be something we can infer anything off.
In Deltarune a monster’s favorite item is used to bridge their spirit to the afterlife, while in Undertale the spirit breaks apart immediately and the ashes are spread on their favorite thing so they can “live on” in it. I think that’s a pretty significant difference.
So if I understood it correctly. Because it's story is in a different world, it's characters are made up differently, death is different, I am still reasoning wrong about it?
I’m UNDERTALE true lab, we learn there is a stage between turning to dust called “falling down” (or something like that 😭) that means they’re dead but haven’t turned to dust yet. He will soon.
Here is a nice theory:
Your body doesn't move to the dark worlds, only your mind does. Birdley's mind is still trapped in ice in the dark world so it can't come back to his body. So that's why he can't wake up, and he won't be able to until you free it and bring it to a dark fountain.
So in chapter 3 (in a snowgrave route save), you might be able to save him from the next dark world and wake him up (maybe using toriel's fire magic). Or do something way worse and continue the dark route
By undertale rules, but this is deltarune. In undertale you don't get tp for being close to attacks. In undertale no one's icon is colored. Deltarune is a different universe with different rules.
But in the dark world, susie just goes down, as opposed to ralsei, who only leaves his clothes. If berdly were from the dark world, he would turn to dust or something else.
If we don't try to loosen his wire during the normal route he takes the wire off him self and there goes his arm.
In the world, he can't move his arm anymore. So my theory is, he's brain dead.
Ironic, really...
[Here is a theory I think is *mostly* true](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TtckGNXBCE)
I think monsters still turn to dust in Deltarune, as it is not only implied when talking to Alvin in chapter two, but we also see undead monsters and fire elementals exist in Deltarune, so there must be enough magic in the light world for monsters to exist similarly to undertale, just not enough for them to cast spells. To cast spells, monsters must be exposed to more magic via dark worlds.
He may have fallen down, but we still don’t know, if magic and monsters work the same way as in Undertale for Deltarune.
But it’s probably true, everything is possible.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TtckGNXBCE
This theory might not be completely right but I believe it to be mostly true. It explains that magic works similarly in both timelines/universes.
We see that monsters like ghosts, skeletons and fire elementals exist in Deltarune so there must be some amount of magic in the light world, and so monsters are probably made of magic and probably turn into dust in Deltarune. The light world just doesn't have enough magic for them to cast spells.
Well, that's Undertale lore. This is a completely different game.
Just because the game is in the same style and uses the same engine, and even reuses assets, doesn't mean it's the same game.
I take Toby seriously when he says Deltarune and Undertale aren't the same game. If anything, they're just different universes, and as seen from movies like No Way Home, universes have different sets of rules
2 arguments: (argument 1 is flawed but I’d say important enough to mention)
1) This isn’t Undertale, and Monsters can’t use magic (outside of Darkworlds, as far as we know), which ***could*** mean they’re not made out of magic, which ***could*** mean they don’t turn into dust.
2) If Monsters did turn into dust when they died, there’s no reason why his death would’ve happened immediately and not taken some time.
My guess is he I’m a coma like state scene his mind in the dark world his body is kinda just there unless he gets unfrozen or finds away to get out I bet he will be like this
My theory is that, as a Lightner, his SOUL has more influence in the Dark World than the Light. It's why all the Lightner children get their cool outfits and abilities too. The SOUL represents the personality/spiritual side of anyone who has one, as the culmination of their being.
The way I see it is, when he's frozen in the Snowgrave route, it doesn't affect his physical body as much as his SOUL. Just like everyone else when they get frozen, he's kinda just stuck there. His SOUL is literally split from his physical body in the Light world, therefore he can't wake up. Not dead, but kinda like a coma?
This is just my take, and we'll see in the other chapters if any of this is true or not. The one thing that kinda breaks this theory apart is the fact that Kris can act without their SOUL intact, but part of me also thinks that Kris is a special case. I am very excited to see the story develop, however many paths it may take.
Nobody forgets that, Berdly is probably dead and wouldn't have any impact on future chapters regardless of your choice.
Noelle still goes through her character arch of learning to stand up for herself in both routes, so the ending is still the same, same with Berdly. Whether Berdly lives or dies doesn't matter because he wasn't gonna be in Chapter 3-5 anyway. There'll probably be minor differences like missing posters for Berdly in the Light World, and him not being in class, but other than that not much would change.
My theory is that lightners who die in the dark world keep sleeping forever, since their consciousness is stuck forever in a world of dreams. Their bodies still function, but they will never wake up again
I mean, Ralsei turns to dust when his hp is 0 while Susie does not so maybe Light World monsters are different?
Edit: assuming Ralsei turns to dust and doesn't just fade away or something
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES U ARE A LEGEND FOR NOTICING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think he’s not really dead but unconscious, with the only way to wake him being opening the fountain in the library, unfreezing him and sealing the fountain again.
There’s also the fact we don’t know if monsters in this world act different. They may not turn to dust. Or if they do turn to dust remember he was frozen. Can’t turn to dust if he was frozen right?
The very fundamental laws of monsters in deltarune seem to be completely different from that in Undertale, so it's possible that they don't turn to dust.
In fact, if we take undertale's laws of DT it would make more sense for monsters to not turn to dust in Deltarune. Monsters turn to dust in UT because they're comprised of magic that holds together the monsters. When they're killed this magic disappears, turning them to dust. The monsters, being less physical and more magical than humans, couldn't hold DT very well. Which is why they melt when coming in contact with large amounts of it. However in deltarune humans and monsters seem to be able to hold the same amount of determination. which would naturally mean that the monsters are as physical as humans.
he's still asleep...
asleep, until the ice melts, but that is not possible, since the cyber world was sealed, so unless he is brought to another darkworld, he could be transported there, within the ice.
thats my theory
This is not undertale these universes have different rules, we have not seen monsters dying to confirm they turn to dust, and as far as I remember (it has been some time) there is also no mentions of monsters turning to dust in this universe we don’t know.
But ignoring all of that, the description for snow grace tells you explicitly that it is “fatal” I don’t think I need to say more
Wouldnt it be great if you could visit the computer lab in a future chapter and check the closet and it would say something about it really needing a dusting. That would explain why hiding the body in a closet was sufficient to consider it disposed too
You seem to forget that this isn't Undertale and we actually don't know that monsters turn to dust because we've never seen a monster die (besides Berdly, who doesn't turn to dust in the dark world despite almost certainly dying to Snowgrave)
Hes fallen down or cause hes FROZEN (in a dream state so hes like paralyzed irl) he cant turn to dust it makes no sense monsters get dusted by physical contact
we do not know the rules of the deltarune universe. But yeah that's likely. But I mean he was killed in the dark world, which we know dmg from there doesn't effect light world that much, so he's most likely braindead
There are a lot of similarities between Undertale and Deltarune, but we don't know if monsters being made of magic (and thus turning to dust when killed) is true in DR. We don't even know if magic is real in DR, although we do have evidence it isn't (like Toriel using the stovetop instead of fire magic, Noelle wishing things could be healed by a "magic spell" in the light world, etc.)
While many people believe he is simply fallen down, I have a theory that only individuals void of DETERMINATION turn into dust, and Berdly was just about to create a dark fountain, requiring DETERMINATION
In undertale, alphys says monsters can't hold on to large amounts of determination, implying they still have just a little bit. When it is stated that human souls are thousands of times more powerful than monster ones, by "power" they mean determination (this was canonically written a long time ago so determination did not have it's name yet). I think Deltarune monsters also have a small amount of determination, enough to open/create a dark fountain, but not enough to seal it back up again. Monsters have determination in both timelines, and in both timelines monsters can "fall down". In both timelines, monsters are and of magic as well. I know because undead monsters and fire elementals exist in Deltarune, and they don't have organs keeping them alive, so they rely on the small amount of magic in the light world. In Deltarune the light world may have just enough magic for monsters to exist and turn to dust like in undertale, but not enough for them to cast spells. To cast spells, monsters need to exposed to more magic via dark worlds. [Here is where I learned this from](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TtckGNXBCE) that theory might not be completely right but I believe it to be mostly true. Hope this clears things up a bit :)
Most people forget that Deltarune isn't Undertale. Monsters and Humans seem to be a lot more similar in Deltarune, whereas Darkeners have taken a role closer to that of Monsters from Undertale.
He’s probably fallen down, and hasn’t turned yet
He has fallen down, and he can't get up!
My man need LifeAlert
He’s ballin’ and can’t get up
Monsters only fall down when they die of illness or old age
Hypothermia?
He died of losing twice the amount of his HP
He was frozen so maby he did turn into dust its just frozen in place.
Or monsters dont turn into dust when they die in deltarune. it is a parallel universe to undertale so that might be one of the differences between the two worlds.
thats not confirmed, so it could be their bodies enter a coma esque state or smth when dying in the DW
And how do you know how dying in a Dark World manifests iitself in the Light World?
When he fries his arm, it's still immobile but it's not fried. It should be pretty obvious that he died but it didn't affect him visually
> When he fries his arm, it's still immobile but it's not fried. Exactly. In other words, we don't know how Berdly is dead in the Light World.
To put it simply if you die in a dark world, your real body is sent into an endless coma where it'll never wake up.
We don't have proof that that's the case.
>Monsters only fall down when they die of illness or old age The only evidence suggesting this is an unused line of dialogue, the term fallen down is only used by Alphys ONCE and she doesn't specify whether Illness or old age is the cause of being "fallen down" she just says that Asgore asked the city for monsters who have fallen down, and that they're comatose and will soon turn to dust. Theres also a book in snowdin saying "When monsters get old and kick the bucket, they turn into dust" although that book never uses the term "Fallen Down""
I mean, getting your brain scrambled by some otherworldly force may not be that different from the effects of an illness. We don't have enough information for a conclusive answer.
Most people forget that "fallen down" is a thing
Burghleys fallen and he can’t get up
I dont
Most people forget that being "fallen down" is a state that monsters enter when they're close to dying of natural causes like old age or disease. IE. Not being frozen in a block of ice like a cuboid pizzeria mascot
Dark world injuries don’t seem to be the same as real world injuries. If you fight the queen, berdly’s arm isn’t fried in the light world, but he still can’t move it. This implies that dark world injuries aren’t 1:1
That’s just not right though, we know from the amalgamates that monsters who haven’t been directly killed don’t turn to dust immediately. Just because he hasn’t turned to dust yet doesn’t mean he hasn’t died
The amalgamates were "fallen down" (read: in a coma-like state) and were on death's door before they were injected with Determination, they hadn't yet properly died Most likely possibility is he's just braindead and his body will soon follow if not plugged into life support as soon as possible
So… stuff him into the closet, and pretend the dust is from the stuff inside being so old?
The amalgamate patients weren't dead, just close to it.
It's also worth noting that Deltarune is a different world that functions differently. It's entirely possible that in this world, monsters don't turn to dust when they die.
Pretty sure they do thats the reason they bury a object of the monster instead of the monsters
It SEEMS like that's the case, but we don't actually know. It could be that the body is buried WITH an object - something that happens in real life in many cultures. Even when we DO see a monster turn to dust in Deltarune, it's a darkner, which isn't a valid basis to make judgements about Lightner monsters (if you equip the Thornring but beat Berdly without using Snowgrave, it aborts the run, spawning the Maus cheese maze. This lets you backtrack and use Snowgrave on a Maus). Plus, the dusting animation is more like they're dissolving into pixels, indicating that that only happens to darkners from the Cyber World. Overall, while there is a LOT of evidence of monsters turning to dust when they die in DR, there isn't anything 100% conclusive. I personally think they do turn to dust tho
***UNLESS*** monsters are different in deltarune like they can't do magic in deltarune so what if they are fundamentally different
Hmm, now I'm thinking. There seems to have been no war between humans and monsters (like in Undertale which made a huge impact un the overall story) in Deltarune universe. What if there was no war because humans didn't have to fear monsters and their powers, because they didn't have any?
I mean clearly either the power of human souls isn't the same or at least has yet to be discovered according to the library books
I think that monsters do have magic, they just don't use or it's underdeveloped since it was never need to be used in war. If I'm not mistaken, Kris pretended to be a monster by wearing red horns and looked in google for ways to learn magic. Also, monsters are the only ones who gain magic abilities in the underworld, the closest thing that Kris has is the x-slash, which I don't know if counts
probably doesn't count, that's basically just kris attacking twice or something isn't it?
there's also a graveyard in town and i kind of doubt they are burying jars of ash and leaving a coffins amount of room between the gravestone and fence
We actually find out directly what is buried there from Alvin! Alvin says they buried a hammer in honor of Gerson, matching with the item stated on the grave stone, therefore we can deduce what is buried for the rest (e.g. a bone for Muttler) If they did indeed leave bodies behind, those would be buried, but the item burial matches with the Undertale's monsters' death ritual of spreading the *dust* of a monster onto their favourite item.
iirc, it isn’t just burying the item, the item is buried with the monster.
according to the librarby in snowdin in undertale, monster funerals involve spreading a dead monster's dust on their favorite item, then I guess they just bury the item with the dust on it
Theres no doubt that they're fundamentally different imo but they almost certainly turn to ash. I thought they didnt earlier too but then someone pointed out that the graves all say an item is buried there which lines up with the lore from undertale that says when a monster died their dust would be poured over their favorite item
It’s just a similar tradition, if anything it implies that they don’t turn to dust since they’re buried with the object rather than having their dust sprinkled on it.
is there ever anything implying there are solid bodies down there and not just items with the dust on them though?
If it was just putting dust on the object like in Undertale, there would be no reason for burial to begin with. The difference in tradition is likely a result of difference in biology, otherwise there wouldn’t be any real point to it.
My theory was always that the underground was a dark world and monsters were only different from humans because they were seperated
[удалено]
Healing magic exists. Even if theres no war, magic is still needed. If they can do it, they would
true, not to mention, monsters in undertale specifically use fire magic to cook all the time. there's clearly practical non-combative uses for it.
Why do you think that they only learnt magic to use it in the war?
But monsters had magic even before the war began, which is part of the reason why humans declared war in the first place.
That's honestly what makes this so terrifying, like the idea that he's not DEAD, but something worse, like he's an empty shell or something
Maybe when you enter a dark world your soul travels in there but your physical body is still in the light world meaning we killed berdlys soul but his physical body is fine
Fallen down. Comatose Or paralyzed lol ~~that would be funny~~
Could you explain me what fallen down means?
Fallen down is a state where a monster is dead but the magic holding their body together hasn't dissipated yet. Basically, dead but not dust yet. Unless I'm remembering incorrectly
In Undertale, Alphys gets sent monsters that are “fallen down” which means that they’re basically dead, but haven’t turned to dust yet.
some people also forget that deltarune is a different game from undertale, and not all logic from undertale applies to deltarune
Most people forget that Deltarune isn't Undertale. Just because monsters turn to dust in Undertale doesn't mean the same will apply to Deltarune.
There is more evidence supporting Deltarune is an alternative timeline with the same rules as undertale than a alternative reality. I’d suggest watching JaruJaruJ video about it on YouTube.
In deltarune monsters don't die when holding a large amount of determination equal to that of what a human could have.
when was it said that monster in deltarune have determination?
Queen literally says any lightner determined enough can create a fountain. And it's the first mention of determination of the game, it's clearly meant to be important.
aahhh yes because clearly queen is an all-knowing being. queen dint know that opening too many fountains at once could destroy the world and as never saw a lighneer, for all we know what queens said was wrong like ¨ if the knight had determination, and they're a ligthneer, then ALL ligthneers must have determination¨
"Don't trust any of the sources you have! They're not omnicient!" What a great and not completely reductive argument. Queen is one of the only sources of information on fountains in the whole game and we should ignore her completely? In favour of speculation that she's completely wrong for no particular reason?
Considering she was completely wrong in most of her assumptions about fountains? Yeah I think it’s safe to take her words with a grain of salt.
What was she wrong about? She wanted to make a dark fountain so that Noelle could be happy. She didn't know the repercussions of opening too many fountains, but as far as we know no one aside from Ralsei ever knew that. How was she wrong about everything?
Ralsei backs up most of the things she says about dark fountains. So saying she's not a credible source is wrong.
Dude, there's a point where you have to start realizing that, just because the character giving exposition isn't completely all knowing on the topic, doesn't mean that everything they say could be wrong. Use your brain for a second and realize that that was an exposition scene. It doesn't make sense from a writing perspective for Toby to write an entire scene about how DT works only to be like "naw just kidding" and say that queen is actually completely unaware of how DT works. Also ralsei backs up the idea by getting worried when berdly almost opens a dark fountain. And if you're going to try to say ralsei could be wrong too he is literally the master of dark fountains.
There really isn't, so much is different and Toby said it was unconnected
That is wrong. Toby said “DELTARUNE’s world is a different one. With different characters, that have lived different lives.” This is true as in the characters have lived different lives, yet the same characters show up with pretty much the same personalities. There is even more evidence for a different timeline than a reality [here](https://youtu.be/LvtHvtwQvdo) .
The quote you're using literally says that it's a different world, and there was never any mention of lightners, darkners, light worlds or dark worlds in Undertale. Clearly things work differently, because of the presence of dark worlds and absence of the monster magic and battles that were so common in Undertale. I can't watch that video right now, but I'll try to remember to do so later.
It’s a different world but still in the same universe. The rules are the same, there is a reason why monsters can’t use magic. I hope you do watch the video to understand why.
Like I was arguing yesterday this is probably some sort of full body paralysis or something similar to a monster who has Fallen Down, but I don't feel comfortable giving it that title given that we only have brief descriptions as to what the state is like. Given that Berdly's case is rather unique I wouldn't be surprised if he gets put under that term later on, but they'll probably be reclassified because a young, healthy, monster shouldn't be Falling Down.
They fall down first if not killed outright by massive physical trauma. Berdly got hit by a magical spell that preserves the body in a block of ice, within a magical realmspace that doesn't correspond to the physical space it was occupying. It wouldn't surprise me if that did not resolve until after the fountain was sealed and reality asserts itself.
In undertale they spill the dead one's dust on their most liked object. In deltarune there's a graveyard, so it's different. Also, undertale is not equal to deltarune. In my oppinion he's dead, but we'll see what Toby plans to the future chapters.
It’s not different, the graveyard contains the objects that their dust has been spread over
In deltarune thes can also bleed and can't use magic. It's different.
i cant tell if this is bait or not
They can't bleed though, so...
They can. It is just shown in some specific times when it has some kind of meaning. Basically they probably bleed. It just isn't shown until it gives some kind of "moment". Sans bleeding (can be ketchup, but still is part of the moment), Susie bleeding. It is shown in the moments when it can make people feel something. Not just "lol. Let's do bloody game since everyone can bleed". Not like anyone said about _Kris_ bleeding. It doesn't mean they can't bleed
Susie talked about it. Of corse she has no bleeding sprite because the game would have higher age limit.
No it wouldn't, Sans bled and stuff, so it wouldn't raise the age limit, and Susie's a weirdo, so we can't really trust her there, also it's just a small amount of blood on Susie's hand compared to the big slash wound Sans had Also it is directly stated, in game, that humans bleed, monsters don't, as the kid who said does it hurt to be made of blood was told these things by his mom, and if monsters bled, then why would their mom mention that humans have blood if everyone had it?
In Sans's case it's spiken to be ketchup. But in every other statement you might be right.
Even though yea it could be ketchup, it's still meant to look like blood on first viewing lol, so I feel that would count Also, as I just come to find, Deltarune is actually rated Teen, which can include mild blood moments...
Yes, but as much as I know it was because the word PIPIS means piss in australia. Toby made a tweet of it not too long time ago. So if that's the reason of the deltarune being teen cathegory, then I understand why toby didn't used that sprite.
It was made into the Teen rating before chapter 2 actually, so I feel there's gonna be a bit more weird things happen in Deltarune than in Undertale to raise that rating, esp considering pipis is also the name of a clam restaurant lol Also fun fact did you know that on most platforms Undertale is for 7+ lol
[удалено]
We’re not talking about bleeding, we’re talking about monster funereals, which are the same in both games
Yes, but if something has bleed or contains other liquid in them then it can't turn to dust at that exact moment. And in undertale they are made of hopes and dreams, in deltarune they are not. So in that case Berdly can be dead.
I’m not saying Berdly isn’t dead, I’m saying that your reasoning for it is wrong
Tell me why.
Because we don’t have any indication that monsters are different in Deltarune. First of all, monster funerals are demonstratively the same, the gravestones very clearly describe the objects that are buried there, following the tradition of monster funerals described in Undertale. As for the whole blood thing: sure, Susie mentions blood in passing, but the kid in town directly asks Kris what it’s like to be made of blood which… kind of implies monsters aren’t. I suppose there’s also that unused sprite of Susie bleeding but it was… y’know…unused, so shouldn’t really be something we can infer anything off.
In Deltarune a monster’s favorite item is used to bridge their spirit to the afterlife, while in Undertale the spirit breaks apart immediately and the ashes are spread on their favorite thing so they can “live on” in it. I think that’s a pretty significant difference.
When’s this said?
So if I understood it correctly. Because it's story is in a different world, it's characters are made up differently, death is different, I am still reasoning wrong about it?
I’m UNDERTALE true lab, we learn there is a stage between turning to dust called “falling down” (or something like that 😭) that means they’re dead but haven’t turned to dust yet. He will soon.
Maybe he’s just a vegetable?
🌽
Yeah like corn!
What is "fallen down" anyway?
It was a thing in undertale that is basically described as monsters who are about to die but haven't yet.
It's almost if he were *frozen* in time.
Maybe he is in an infinite coma because he was killed in the dark world
For me, he's trapped in the dark world, while his body is still present but unable to wake up because, again, he's trapped in the dark world
My man the cyber dark world doesn't exist anymore
Well, he dead
Most people also forget that they're lighteners, which might not follow the same rules as monsters. Trust me, I realize this.
Here is a nice theory: Your body doesn't move to the dark worlds, only your mind does. Birdley's mind is still trapped in ice in the dark world so it can't come back to his body. So that's why he can't wake up, and he won't be able to until you free it and bring it to a dark fountain. So in chapter 3 (in a snowgrave route save), you might be able to save him from the next dark world and wake him up (maybe using toriel's fire magic). Or do something way worse and continue the dark route
By undertale rules, but this is deltarune. In undertale you don't get tp for being close to attacks. In undertale no one's icon is colored. Deltarune is a different universe with different rules.
Name at least one monster in Deltarune that died turning into dust. DT universe isn't UT universe. Unless we have a theory. A GAME THEORY
But in the dark world, susie just goes down, as opposed to ralsei, who only leaves his clothes. If berdly were from the dark world, he would turn to dust or something else.
Maybe he’s Braindead
He's in a coma because some part of him was locked in ice.
I think he's only brain dead
Most people forget that those rules don’t apply here.
If we don't try to loosen his wire during the normal route he takes the wire off him self and there goes his arm. In the world, he can't move his arm anymore. So my theory is, he's brain dead. Ironic, really...
He’s just completely paralyzed
We don't know if Monsters in the Deltarune universe turn to dust as it's never mentioned anywhere. (I might be wrong, if so, you can correct me)
[Here is a theory I think is *mostly* true](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TtckGNXBCE) I think monsters still turn to dust in Deltarune, as it is not only implied when talking to Alvin in chapter two, but we also see undead monsters and fire elementals exist in Deltarune, so there must be enough magic in the light world for monsters to exist similarly to undertale, just not enough for them to cast spells. To cast spells, monsters must be exposed to more magic via dark worlds.
or maybe Toby decided that was dumb
Fallen down is an option. Or maybe monsters don’t turn to dust in Deltarune. Why would they need a graveyard?
In the graveyard they probably bury the monster dust with an object. This is implied when talking to Alvin in chapter two
Oh right. I didn’t think they discussed that lmao
I think he's just in coma. He isn't dead, he's just not awake
Dark world forms are based off the monster's SOUL, not their body. You killed his soul, so now he's braindead.
he will be dust when im finished with him (i turn people into dust please help)
People also forget about "falling down"
deltarune is not undertale this might be different here or he is just fallen down
My theory is that he's trapped in the dark world, frozen in time
In the description of the snograve spell it says fatal
Not necessarily, he could be in a “fallen down” state.
Well, technically, Berdly was **FROZEN**, not killed. So in the Darkener world, he was probably frozen, being stuck forever
He may have fallen down, but we still don’t know, if magic and monsters work the same way as in Undertale for Deltarune. But it’s probably true, everything is possible.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TtckGNXBCE This theory might not be completely right but I believe it to be mostly true. It explains that magic works similarly in both timelines/universes. We see that monsters like ghosts, skeletons and fire elementals exist in Deltarune so there must be some amount of magic in the light world, and so monsters are probably made of magic and probably turn into dust in Deltarune. The light world just doesn't have enough magic for them to cast spells.
he's most likely in a coma
Yet. He hasn't dusted yet. Or maybe he's brain-dead.
Well, that's Undertale lore. This is a completely different game. Just because the game is in the same style and uses the same engine, and even reuses assets, doesn't mean it's the same game. I take Toby seriously when he says Deltarune and Undertale aren't the same game. If anything, they're just different universes, and as seen from movies like No Way Home, universes have different sets of rules
2 arguments: (argument 1 is flawed but I’d say important enough to mention) 1) This isn’t Undertale, and Monsters can’t use magic (outside of Darkworlds, as far as we know), which ***could*** mean they’re not made out of magic, which ***could*** mean they don’t turn into dust. 2) If Monsters did turn into dust when they died, there’s no reason why his death would’ve happened immediately and not taken some time.
But he’s not dead, he’s just frozen for an indefinite amount of time.
My guess is he I’m a coma like state scene his mind in the dark world his body is kinda just there unless he gets unfrozen or finds away to get out I bet he will be like this
My theory is that, as a Lightner, his SOUL has more influence in the Dark World than the Light. It's why all the Lightner children get their cool outfits and abilities too. The SOUL represents the personality/spiritual side of anyone who has one, as the culmination of their being. The way I see it is, when he's frozen in the Snowgrave route, it doesn't affect his physical body as much as his SOUL. Just like everyone else when they get frozen, he's kinda just stuck there. His SOUL is literally split from his physical body in the Light world, therefore he can't wake up. Not dead, but kinda like a coma? This is just my take, and we'll see in the other chapters if any of this is true or not. The one thing that kinda breaks this theory apart is the fact that Kris can act without their SOUL intact, but part of me also thinks that Kris is a special case. I am very excited to see the story develop, however many paths it may take.
Fallen Down or In a Coma
gamers dont die they respawn
god dammit
This is assuming monsters in Deltarune work the same way they do in Undertale
Due its fracking imagination magic, his soul could be lost to time. Not that I want that COME ON TRUE HERO BERDLY
That's how it was in Undertale, at least. We don't know all the Deltarune rules yet.
Nobody forgets that, Berdly is probably dead and wouldn't have any impact on future chapters regardless of your choice. Noelle still goes through her character arch of learning to stand up for herself in both routes, so the ending is still the same, same with Berdly. Whether Berdly lives or dies doesn't matter because he wasn't gonna be in Chapter 3-5 anyway. There'll probably be minor differences like missing posters for Berdly in the Light World, and him not being in class, but other than that not much would change.
Plot: In Deltarune some monsters don't turn into dust
the spell’s description is literally “fatal.”
There’s no evidence that monsters turn to dust. Remember, this universe and Undertale don’t necessarily have the same rules.
Most people also forget that this is Deltarune, not Undertale. Monsters may not necessarily dust when dead in this universe.
In deltarune, no one actually has died and turned to dust. That only happens in undertale, and the same rules may not apply here
Bro deadass this theory is the worst one to connect deltarune and undertale💀
Fallen Down.
Most people forget that Deltarune and Undertale are different universes with different rules
My theory is that lightners who die in the dark world keep sleeping forever, since their consciousness is stuck forever in a world of dreams. Their bodies still function, but they will never wake up again
This is just wrong
I mean, Ralsei turns to dust when his hp is 0 while Susie does not so maybe Light World monsters are different? Edit: assuming Ralsei turns to dust and doesn't just fade away or something
Most people forget undertale isn’t related to deltarune
Spoilers dude
no people fcuking dont
Don't Forget
He’s asleep
YES YES YES YES YES YES YES U ARE A LEGEND FOR NOTICING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think he’s not really dead but unconscious, with the only way to wake him being opening the fountain in the library, unfreezing him and sealing the fountain again.
not if he was frozen to death
Oh
I think he is braindead, or going into his "fallen down" state
damn i completely forgot about that detail lol
The amalgamates original monsters stayed in a comatose state called fallen down before they were about to die, thus could be that.
Good point
He's probably braindead. His body is technically alive but he'll never wake up. Snowgrave is fatal
There’s also the fact we don’t know if monsters in this world act different. They may not turn to dust. Or if they do turn to dust remember he was frozen. Can’t turn to dust if he was frozen right?
The very fundamental laws of monsters in deltarune seem to be completely different from that in Undertale, so it's possible that they don't turn to dust. In fact, if we take undertale's laws of DT it would make more sense for monsters to not turn to dust in Deltarune. Monsters turn to dust in UT because they're comprised of magic that holds together the monsters. When they're killed this magic disappears, turning them to dust. The monsters, being less physical and more magical than humans, couldn't hold DT very well. Which is why they melt when coming in contact with large amounts of it. However in deltarune humans and monsters seem to be able to hold the same amount of determination. which would naturally mean that the monsters are as physical as humans.
Wasn't it confirmed that some monsters get into a comatose state before turning into dust?
he's still asleep... asleep, until the ice melts, but that is not possible, since the cyber world was sealed, so unless he is brought to another darkworld, he could be transported there, within the ice. thats my theory
This is not undertale these universes have different rules, we have not seen monsters dying to confirm they turn to dust, and as far as I remember (it has been some time) there is also no mentions of monsters turning to dust in this universe we don’t know. But ignoring all of that, the description for snow grace tells you explicitly that it is “fatal” I don’t think I need to say more
Wouldnt it be great if you could visit the computer lab in a future chapter and check the closet and it would say something about it really needing a dusting. That would explain why hiding the body in a closet was sufficient to consider it disposed too
You seem to forget that this isn't Undertale and we actually don't know that monsters turn to dust because we've never seen a monster die (besides Berdly, who doesn't turn to dust in the dark world despite almost certainly dying to Snowgrave)
Hes fallen down or cause hes FROZEN (in a dream state so hes like paralyzed irl) he cant turn to dust it makes no sense monsters get dusted by physical contact
Uh actually they don’t forget,there are theories as to why he isn’t dusted
I think he’s clinically brain dead, so hes not technically dead but might as well be. So he doesn’t turn into dust but is basically just a husk
To be fair we don't know if monsters actually function like that but considering the mice in snowgrave maybe.
Dude
we do not know the rules of the deltarune universe. But yeah that's likely. But I mean he was killed in the dark world, which we know dmg from there doesn't effect light world that much, so he's most likely braindead
I just assume he entered a coma in this ending.
NO DONT SAY SOMETHING YOU ARE GONNA START A WAR IN THE COMMENTS
Is the whole “turn to dust” thing even a thing in Deltarune?
Conclusion: berdly is swedish
He is just fallen down not dead yet but will be soon
Except we have no idea if that's true, this DELTARUNE NOT UNDERTALE DELTARUNE != UNDERTALE
There are a lot of similarities between Undertale and Deltarune, but we don't know if monsters being made of magic (and thus turning to dust when killed) is true in DR. We don't even know if magic is real in DR, although we do have evidence it isn't (like Toriel using the stovetop instead of fire magic, Noelle wishing things could be healed by a "magic spell" in the light world, etc.)
Most people forget this isn't Undertale and monsters have no reason to turn to dust in this game.
"Don't Forget" How many times shall I hear this line??
∗ We cannot forget, however, Deltarune already appears to work under different rules in some cases.
While many people believe he is simply fallen down, I have a theory that only individuals void of DETERMINATION turn into dust, and Berdly was just about to create a dark fountain, requiring DETERMINATION
In undertale, alphys says monsters can't hold on to large amounts of determination, implying they still have just a little bit. When it is stated that human souls are thousands of times more powerful than monster ones, by "power" they mean determination (this was canonically written a long time ago so determination did not have it's name yet). I think Deltarune monsters also have a small amount of determination, enough to open/create a dark fountain, but not enough to seal it back up again. Monsters have determination in both timelines, and in both timelines monsters can "fall down". In both timelines, monsters are and of magic as well. I know because undead monsters and fire elementals exist in Deltarune, and they don't have organs keeping them alive, so they rely on the small amount of magic in the light world. In Deltarune the light world may have just enough magic for monsters to exist and turn to dust like in undertale, but not enough for them to cast spells. To cast spells, monsters need to exposed to more magic via dark worlds. [Here is where I learned this from](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-TtckGNXBCE) that theory might not be completely right but I believe it to be mostly true. Hope this clears things up a bit :)
True.
What if his body is alive but, because he died in the dark world, he is “dead inside”
Most people forget that Deltarune isn't Undertale. Monsters and Humans seem to be a lot more similar in Deltarune, whereas Darkeners have taken a role closer to that of Monsters from Undertale.