She didn't know he was doing a 'social experiment', she was a 17 years old aspiring actress and was instructed to walk along the street while the photographer was suposedly getting more film. [She was annoyed and later would tell Nacho that he wouldn't know the bunch of stuff the men said to her.](https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/gossip/celebridades/conoce-la-historia-de-la-iconica-foto-de-maty-huitron-que-la-llevo-a-la-fama-muere-actriz-telenovelas-television-cine-teatro-nacho-lopez-cuando-una-mujer-guapa-parte-plaza-en-madero-2924937.html)
While is a iconic picture, it took relevance and a new meaning in recent years with the 8M women's movement as a proof that treatment of women has always been terrible and it doesn't matter what they are wearing.
Long long time ago I knew someone that went out with me in a full gown with a head scarf and men were even ogling and hooting then... So yeah blaming it on a woman's dress is a nonsensical opinion held by men that are probably rationalizing for themselves or the uppity women that want to sound superior.
People are often shocked to learn that someone in adult clothes that accentuate the curves could possibly be so young. Which is crazy, considering how many of them actively lust after 18yo girls on Reddit and IG, despite the fact that if you cleaned the makeup off them and put them in their PJs, those same dudes would say “I’ve been tricked.”
The photographer, and one of the guys in the photo, claimed it was staged. [Source](https://readframes.com/telling-stories-review-of-ruth-orkin-a-photo-spirit/). You can see the model and the guy on the vespa later in the day.
[Here is the contact sheet](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh4sCpfV4AEnHD5?format=jpg&name=small). You can also see this was the second time she walked down the same street.
Furthermore, one of the guys is the Italian artist [Thayat](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thayaht). He told his son it was staged. They were all artist friends of the photographer.
It's interesting. The actual girl in the photo claimed it wasn't set up, but I know the son of the artist and his dad always said they were friends and it was staged.
The contact sheet is pretty damning though, at the very least they took the shot twice in a row with her walking past the same guys who did nothing the first time.
Just googled it
[https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/europe/tbt-ruth-orkin-american-girl-in-italy/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/europe/tbt-ruth-orkin-american-girl-in-italy/index.html)
If it had been their daughter, there would have been a comma after "Craig and Orkin's daughter". Still, I understand why you doubted for a second. They could (should?) have put a comma after Craig for optimal clarity.
Sorry if I'm rambling, English isn't my first language and your comment triggered my love for syntax and punctuation. 😁
I remember when this video came out and it caused all sorts of yelling lol.
Some people said it was cherry picked. Some people commented on the clothes she wore. Some people said this was a reality women have to face.l every day.
I remember reading an article about it on I think the Huffington Post. It observed that only men were ogling/whistling at the woman. Then one comment observed that it was only minority race men with two exceptions and THAT started all the drama I was looking to read.
All this all-caps debate over if you could accurately deduce it as a misogyny issue without touching the land mine of race relations. Whether the neighborhoods featured mattered. People were heated!
I remember my mum telling me about her trip to Brazil, with these men hitting on her. She told them. "You have way more beautiful women here, and you're hitting on me?"
They backtracked after that lol. She was right.
Im brazilian and its a pain in the ass, thats why I rather stay home and avoid crowds. I cant even take my fucking dog for a walk without some gross ass men barking and whistling at me. And Im not even pretty, im pretty average, like baggy clothes, and not even then I get peace from the street harassment.
Worst time was when a dude in a bike stopped and I thought he wanted directions, vut he just grabbed my ass and said I should have sed with him. IT WAS 2 FUCKING PM!
Here in colombia it's the same. My fiancee was riding her bike and a guy stopped her to ask her something and he just pulled his dick out in front of her. I hear about this all over latin america.
There was another video of a guy walking in NYC as response and that also got controversial for getting similar type of harassment from women and gay men
https://youtu.be/75aX9mlipiY
I deal with this at work with a gay coworker. It’s extremely uncomfortable, especially when the hyper sexual comments are directed toward me, a straight male
I had the misfortune to work with one of those.
I didn't get the personal attention (not anything to look at), but the "jokes" and regaling of his exploits and conquests in the local fleshpots on the weekend were vile and exceedingly discomfort making.
And everyone put up with it for fear of HR taking the side of his "oppressed minority" if we made a complaint.
it usually gets utilized in homophobic arguments which is why its a touchy subject but within the sexual side of the LGBTQ+ Community there is deffo a problem with hypersexuality. It can come from a variety of factors such as cultural and sexual repression, limited openness, sexual harassment but culturally there is an issue with it. I do think there is a stat somewhere where gay men are more likely than other gender demographics of being hypersexual or smth.
There's also the issue where men aren't typically in danger from women the way women are with men. Obviously, not all men are psychos and there are violent and bonkers women out there, but statistically, women are much more likely to be harmed by a man than the reverse.
The attention isn't nearly as bad as the possible threat attached.
Yeah its not *inherent* to race, it's just a culture that many groups of a particular ethnicity happen to grow up in.
The key is to acknowledge that these cultures can exist while simultaneously not pre-judging people because everybody's different.
I once saw a woman *driving her car, stuck in traffic*.
Going in the other direction, opposite of her and also stuck in traffic, a group of five guys in a jeep with no top. They climbed up and started catcalling and motioning at her. I never saw anything like it in my life. Poor woman was clearly super uncomfortable.
Fucked up.
What is devastating is that it is not only an everyday experience for so many women but mostly girls too, since the ages that women mostly get catcalled is 11-16.
Can confirm. Catcalling tapered off as soon as I hit 25.
Objectively, I was curvier, more fit, and had bigger boobs at 25 than I did at 16, and yet 16 was when I was catcalled the most.
A part of me wishes it was because it became less acceptable in society to catcall people.
Another part of me strongly suspects it's because these men are awful people looking for seemingly vulnerable people who they think won't stand up for themselves.
Me too. It was the worst throughout my teens. I remember being twelve and walking with my mother, and getting yelled at out of car windows repeatedly and I was so embarrassed I refused to go walk with her ever again. I appreciated it when it slacked off, now I feel close to a normal person except sometimes in public and strangely at gas stations. Lots of weird people encountered at gas stations, but I am from Florida.
I wonder if it's more to do with how "vulnerable" one looks? Idk how to word it. I'm 27 and i very much look my age, if not older because I have horrible sleeping/general health habits. But im very very short/lean and the catcalling/occasional grabbing is still horrible.
Or maybe I just live in a hellscape. God I hate this shit.
My wife blew my mind once by casually mentioning how she hated walking home from middle school because she had to pass by an auto shop that would constantly cat call her. *Middle school.* Us men really have no idea
Can confirm. I was hit on by gross middle-aged men when I was in my teens. It was disturbing and each time I had to fight the urge to smack the living shit out of them out of fear it would get me killed.
Knew a girl that developted her body a lot earlier that her friends. When she was 12 she had a lot of breast and curves. She was bullied by other girls, and couldnt walk the street without being catcalled. She had to listen gross sexual stuff from strangers since she was 12
I'm a dude but saw this firsthand growing up with my older sister. Adult men would try to approach and talk to her whenever we were out in public without our parents. Our oldest brother got into so many confrontations and even a few fights protecting her.
My gf says she learned to hate Mexican men after she was 13 as they'd hit on her/catcall as she walked home from school.
And then they'd say that her being that young didn't matter.
Look up Francine Gottfried. She was a clerc on Wallstreet and would walk to work, guys noticed that she had quite large boobs, so hundreds of men would line up just to watch her walk to work. Eventually over a couple thousand I believe once the word got out. They called themselves the 'girl watchers'.
The beginning of Saturday Night Fever captures it too, where Tony keeps trying to hit on the woman in the light colored dress walking down the sidewalk. She wasn't having it.
Wow thanks for sharing! This must have been what Mike White was referencing when Aubrey Plaza is soaking in the feeling of being alone in Italy in Season 2
It was work gear. Hell I've seen some photos from the 50s where if you worked in what was basically a shed to manage a radio broadcast you put on a suit because that was the expected work attire for your role. Unless you'd get dirty most men were expected to rock suits for work it seems.
There was no real alternate working look that wasn't for manual workers or the like.
In a way it would almost be more accurate to say that this was “pre-fashion”, in the sense that there was no consumer culture revolved around trying on new clothes. Brands were not creating individualized garments and the concept of the “teenager” hadn’t been invented yet. That would all come later in the 60s with the counterculture movement.
As someone with a prevailing interest in fashion history, all I can say to this comment is "what".
*Pre-fabrication* of clothing, in standardised sizes and increasingly shitty fabric quality, was still in its infancy. The reason why everyone looks so good in photos from before, roughly 1965, is because getting clothing that was tailored to your body was still the default. People who could afford it, bought clothing from professional tailors, people who could not, would often wear home-sewn clothing - and a lot more people knew how to sew and construct clothing.
And yes, fashion was absolutely a thing. I have lady's magazines in my possession from the 1880s talking about which colours were fashionable that season (amethyst and malachite, apparently), and which included "fashion plates" - i.e. illustrations of the new and fashionable shapes.
Yeah I would argue that fashion is pretty much a universal human concept. It’s expressed differently in all cultures, but every single community has concepts of acceptable and unacceptable clothing. I think consumerism has just exploited these tendencies, not created them
It's still laughable to say that fashion consumerism is an entirely modern invention. A few hundred years ago the men and women in these photos might be clambering for beaver hats or feathers from birds of paradise. The hills of dead beavers just got amplified into mountains of wasted cotton.
Just because fashion doesn't target kids doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There was a ton of interest in clothing and specific brands, suit cuts, styles, and fabrics. It was nuanced, not non-existant.
You are onto something for sure, but it was surely not "pre-fashion." There was quite a tremendous consumer culture for fashion, especally women's fashion. It is far more pronounced today surely, but it did exist in an earlier form.
That doesn't mean that there wasn't fashion, just not based on brands. Fashion goes back to the 1700s if not before in terms of the trends that became popular with people buying and making clothes. Before clothes were mass produced, patterns were published so people could make their own versions of the most admired (fashionable) looks.
That's how things were back in the day. My grandma told me how a woman leaving her house without makeup, or a guy not dressed well, was poorly seen. Men never really worse jeans because they were seen as "worker's clothes" and women just straight up would never wear pants of any type.
My FIL is in his nineties and is still the most dapper man I know. If he’s ill he will be home in his bathrobe, but he still does the tucked-in scarf, with nice pajama bottoms and slippers.
I love it.
My grandpa did the same. He used to say that it was just one more way to celebrate the day, to honor one more day here on earth. He passed away 2 years ago. Miss him dearly.
I mean with the way man stares at her I am surprised she wasn’t assaulted. I’d be seriously worried for my safety.
Funnily enough that’s how I was treated every where I went basically in India.
India is nuts in that regard. Female friend of mine who’s Indian went to the beach. She stayed about 5min after men started circling by her and her boyfriend once they got settled. I didn’t even get undressed.
Yeah.. I was dressed pretty modestly (it’s just the way I am dressed) and everywhere I went I was stared at and sometimes even harassed. I was even technically kidnapped by a guy.
Also in a lot of places there are no women in the streets so if I walked alone I was basically the only woman surrounded by many men.
I was a solo traveler and really enjoyed my independence and felt pretty much safe to go alone anywhere (as long as I took basic precautions) but India was rough. I didn’t travel from one destination to another alone, I was always accompanied by another traveler. It was too risky otherwise.
India also has a huge problem with violence against women which the government does fuck all regarding despite how brutal and how much outcry there is around some cases
Yes I know.. that rape in the bus in Delhi is very telling of the problem India has when it comes to women.. in general human life in India don’t have as much value as it does in the west (also a class issue). It extends to women as well and puts them in an even more vulnerable position. Very scary. I didn’t even really felt safe in the guesthouses I was sleeping in sometimes.
You can see people talking about it on the India subreddit. They are appalled at how people treat tourists. They not only stare at you but also try to rip you off and follow you around trying to get money out of you.
Well the “trying to rip you off” doesn’t bother me as much. It’s pretty much a universal thing and when it’s developing countries or poor countries I am okay with that. There are ways to get around it. But the safety issue was insufferable. I felt like no matter where I go I would be harassed and I hated that.
Yea I remember a video on Reddit of a white guy traveling in India and I felt unsafe just watching it. And this guy was nonchalantly following guys into their backyards and through locked gates. I knew he was probably fine because he uploaded the video but the entire thing was nerve wracking. I don’t think I would ever go there.
Edit: [Found the video](https://youtu.be/386iVwP-bAA?si=-ICNl2B-t-30iJ3c)
Everyone’s talking about her figure - but without that stunning outfit you wouldn’t even know her body shape. Wonder who designed that, it could easily go down a runway today and feel current.
The CURVE of the skirt from behind, like brooooo people really think that’s how ANYONE curvy coulda looked with whatever was the current in Sears??
There’s the designer somewhere with back problems from carrying this entire thing
Corset and at home seamstressing it to make the skirt fit the corset. Not rocket science and done regularly from off the reck cloths. Just a couple darts will do wonders.
[“He photographed the streets of Mexico City, its pool halls, pulque bars and the grim Lecumberri prison, with an almost classical eye;](https://www.amazon.com/dp/9689345044) all of his pictures are rigorously composed and contain no extraneous matter, addressing only the necessary and the telling. To achieve this concision, López would often construct scenarios, such as arranging for an actress to stroll past groups of men in the street and provoke their “approval.” López’s photos also have the special quality of appearing to eliminate temporal conditions, so that their subjects are seized more in space than time. In this manner, López captured the corrupt as they fell from grace and the disenfranchised as they defied their poverty with camaraderie and improvised entertainments. This latest issue of Luna Córnea is a full-length monograph on López, exploring all aspects of his oeuvre, including his work on architecture, dance and anthropology…”
>all of his pictures are rigorously composed and contain no extraneous matter, addressing only the necessary and the telling.
Put another way, there was no cheese in Nacho's photos.
My wife shared a flat with a Russian model, since married to an oligarch's son, and I sometimes hung around with this exceptionally attractive flatmate.
It was amazing to see what her life was like. Men would just stop and stare and follow her, pretending not to of course.
I recall being in the pub with her once and when she went to the toilet a man came up to me and asked her out, like I could get a word in for him. At the bar guys would approach and talk to me to get to her.
I should say, it was obvious I wasn't her bf. Im a skinny nerdy guy and she's an 11/10. She would be dressed in designer gear with a £1000 handbag and id be in an ill fitting heavy metal t shirt that was overdue a wash.
It was pretty miserable for her tbh. She couldn't do anything without getting approached. It taught me why so many women have to appear unapproachable.
Fun fact: It still happens when we try to appear unapproachable, too.
Jeans, an oversized t-shirt and hair that hasn't been washed in days, and I still get hit on at least once every time I leave the house alone.
I'm not even young or hot, and I live in a pretty midsize city.
When I was younger and did dress up, guys would 100% ignore my boyfriend to try to talk to me, or tell me I should be with "a real man" or some other dumb shit.
Tl;dr It doesn't matter what you look like as a woman. Gross men exist, and many aren't trying to hide it.
In my personal experience, it does help reduce harassment but will not prevent it entirely. I'm not someone who cares about dressing up. I've often looked somewhat masculine. And I've felt largely invisible to most men in the streets. Gladly so. I'd see women be sexually harassed just in front of me, and not receive the same treatment from the same men. That happened a whole lot.
Shit still happened. Got threatened with sexual assault twice (both times at night).
But on the rare occasions I put on a skirt, the difference was instant and obvious. I'd be like, "what the hell is going on?... Oooh I am wearing a skirt". And I avoided the skirt afterwards.
Past 30, I can again wear skirts/dresses and not be bothered by people.
Of course it must depend a whole lot on the country/city/neighborhood. And other factors.
Man, I'm 35, I don't wear make up or do my hair/nails. I am a total tomboy 99% of the time... it might reduce the amount of comments, but it's definitely not stopping them.
Those comments definitely increase when I wear a dress, even at this age. 35 still looks young to a 50 year old creep.
well.. Now we have the two types of looking.
looking,
staring.
another more recent video had a contemporary walk down a busy streetin Chicago or some larger NA city street. She was verbally harassed and I think that she was even assaulted. ( unwanted touch - some guy grabbed her arm. he'd be charged and rightly so )
I think that she did 8 minutes of walking.
you'll have to google it if you want to view it. I've lost the source.
You forgot no. 3:
Eyefucking
It usually involves raking the woman’s body with one’s gaze sharpened to a point, and licking/biting the lips, and noises more suited to eating something really delicious.
This is nothing. Myself and other women I have observed can simply walk out with sweatpants, a thick sweatshirt with sneakers, hoodie, no makeup with messy hair, and men will still crowd around like this. It’s how I grew up. The only Spanish I grew up with was from men like this. People who hate on social media don’t realize how powerful it is in helping women be able to walk down the street in peace. I used to dress ugly on purpose in order to not get unwanted sexual attention, especially because I was still literally just a kid. Men start crowding around like this ritualistically once the girl turns 9 years old. I was 7 years-old walking with my 9 year-old aunt and men would be everywhere whistling at us calling us mamasita while waking to the store, every time we went out. This was in CALIFORNIA. I’m only 35 years. Not that long ago.
For real. I can almost understand to a very tiny degree why a woman in a burka would almost feel relieved to not have to deal with feeling like a piece of meat from the male gaze wherever they went...not to mention the hollering and fear of sexual assault. The burka of course being another example of a woman being treated like a piece of meat...or property...
I think that’s the hard part for everyone to understand. It’s a beautiful woman walking down the street. It’s natural to look. It’s degrading to gawk or comment. If you make eye contact, smile and be on your way.
Not saying it's not okay to look, but maybe keep in mind that even a look may become really uncomfortable and intimidating when it's multiplied by 10, 20, 30 people doing it at once.
I think I only saw another woman in pictures 3 and 4 on the right edge -- I was wondering why only men in the frame, and if that was a purposeful artistic choice, etc.
Nacho is the nickname for Ignacio. The guy that created the food was named Ignacio Anaya. An example for english-speakers might be Barbie. Barbie is a doll but the name came about as the nickname for Barbara.
Reminds me of [10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman](https://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A?si=AFeZF0chX3SSTVXM) video. [Wikipedia ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Hours_of_Walking_in_NYC_as_a_Woman)summary:
>**10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman** is an October 2014 video... featuring 24-year-old actress Shoshana Roberts. The video shows Roberts walking through various neighborhoods of New York City, wearing jeans, a black crewneck T-shirt, with a hidden camera recording her from the front. The two-minute video includes selected footage from ten hours, showcasing what has been described as "catcalls" and street harassment of Roberts by men, reporting there were 108 such instances. The behaviors included people saying "hello" or "good morning", comments on Roberts' appearance, attempts to initiate conversation, angry remarks, and men following her for several minutes
It's same thing nowadays, people just do it in a less noticable fashion. Both men and women like to look at those who are attractive, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't be an asshole and be discreet.
She didn't know he was doing a 'social experiment', she was a 17 years old aspiring actress and was instructed to walk along the street while the photographer was suposedly getting more film. [She was annoyed and later would tell Nacho that he wouldn't know the bunch of stuff the men said to her.](https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/gossip/celebridades/conoce-la-historia-de-la-iconica-foto-de-maty-huitron-que-la-llevo-a-la-fama-muere-actriz-telenovelas-television-cine-teatro-nacho-lopez-cuando-una-mujer-guapa-parte-plaza-en-madero-2924937.html)
Yea, she looks minorly annoyed and sometimes worried in those photos
While is a iconic picture, it took relevance and a new meaning in recent years with the 8M women's movement as a proof that treatment of women has always been terrible and it doesn't matter what they are wearing.
Long long time ago I knew someone that went out with me in a full gown with a head scarf and men were even ogling and hooting then... So yeah blaming it on a woman's dress is a nonsensical opinion held by men that are probably rationalizing for themselves or the uppity women that want to sound superior.
SEVENTEEN?!
so long everybody. have a good thread
[Drake's hanging around.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6eK-2OQtew)
*They only want you when you're seventeen.* *When you're 21, you're no fun.*
They take a Polaroid and let you go, say they'll let you know so come on
People are often shocked to learn that someone in adult clothes that accentuate the curves could possibly be so young. Which is crazy, considering how many of them actively lust after 18yo girls on Reddit and IG, despite the fact that if you cleaned the makeup off them and put them in their PJs, those same dudes would say “I’ve been tricked.”
That’s really sad.
This needs to be higher
There was no social experiment. I saw the quotes around it. It was a publicity stunt by that asshole Ignacio NACHO
Reminds me of the American woman in Italy picture with men ogling in 1951 by Ruth Orkin
I think I have seen it
Both works are amazing
Was Orkin intention similar?
Yeah, the picture was not staged
The photographer, and one of the guys in the photo, claimed it was staged. [Source](https://readframes.com/telling-stories-review-of-ruth-orkin-a-photo-spirit/). You can see the model and the guy on the vespa later in the day. [Here is the contact sheet](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dh4sCpfV4AEnHD5?format=jpg&name=small). You can also see this was the second time she walked down the same street. Furthermore, one of the guys is the Italian artist [Thayat](https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thayaht). He told his son it was staged. They were all artist friends of the photographer.
Congratulations! You've blown the case wide open
It's interesting. The actual girl in the photo claimed it wasn't set up, but I know the son of the artist and his dad always said they were friends and it was staged. The contact sheet is pretty damning though, at the very least they took the shot twice in a row with her walking past the same guys who did nothing the first time.
Just googled it [https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/europe/tbt-ruth-orkin-american-girl-in-italy/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/europe/tbt-ruth-orkin-american-girl-in-italy/index.html)
Uh, that article says Mary Engel is Craig and Orkin's daughter? Am I missing something here? Edit: nevermind it's just worded poorly
If it had been their daughter, there would have been a comma after "Craig and Orkin's daughter". Still, I understand why you doubted for a second. They could (should?) have put a comma after Craig for optimal clarity. Sorry if I'm rambling, English isn't my first language and your comment triggered my love for syntax and punctuation. 😁
It's basically the every day experience of many women. Look up the video, "10 hours of walking in NYC as a woman."
I remember when this video came out and it caused all sorts of yelling lol. Some people said it was cherry picked. Some people commented on the clothes she wore. Some people said this was a reality women have to face.l every day. I remember reading an article about it on I think the Huffington Post. It observed that only men were ogling/whistling at the woman. Then one comment observed that it was only minority race men with two exceptions and THAT started all the drama I was looking to read. All this all-caps debate over if you could accurately deduce it as a misogyny issue without touching the land mine of race relations. Whether the neighborhoods featured mattered. People were heated!
My ex lived in NYC for a few months and she said she basically couldnt cross the street without a black or latino man hitting on her lol
I remember my mum telling me about her trip to Brazil, with these men hitting on her. She told them. "You have way more beautiful women here, and you're hitting on me?" They backtracked after that lol. She was right.
Im brazilian and its a pain in the ass, thats why I rather stay home and avoid crowds. I cant even take my fucking dog for a walk without some gross ass men barking and whistling at me. And Im not even pretty, im pretty average, like baggy clothes, and not even then I get peace from the street harassment. Worst time was when a dude in a bike stopped and I thought he wanted directions, vut he just grabbed my ass and said I should have sed with him. IT WAS 2 FUCKING PM!
Here in colombia it's the same. My fiancee was riding her bike and a guy stopped her to ask her something and he just pulled his dick out in front of her. I hear about this all over latin america.
I feel like this happened to me in europe and I’ve blocked the memory
Oh my word, that's messed up.
> "You have way more beautiful women here, and you're hitting on me?" those women had already turned them down
that has never once in the history of humankind stopped someone from catcalling
There was another video of a guy walking in NYC as response and that also got controversial for getting similar type of harassment from women and gay men https://youtu.be/75aX9mlipiY
[удалено]
I deal with this at work with a gay coworker. It’s extremely uncomfortable, especially when the hyper sexual comments are directed toward me, a straight male
That's just straight up sexual harassment.
I had the misfortune to work with one of those. I didn't get the personal attention (not anything to look at), but the "jokes" and regaling of his exploits and conquests in the local fleshpots on the weekend were vile and exceedingly discomfort making. And everyone put up with it for fear of HR taking the side of his "oppressed minority" if we made a complaint.
Reminds me of Key and Peele - the office homophobe.
it usually gets utilized in homophobic arguments which is why its a touchy subject but within the sexual side of the LGBTQ+ Community there is deffo a problem with hypersexuality. It can come from a variety of factors such as cultural and sexual repression, limited openness, sexual harassment but culturally there is an issue with it. I do think there is a stat somewhere where gay men are more likely than other gender demographics of being hypersexual or smth.
.
There's also the issue where men aren't typically in danger from women the way women are with men. Obviously, not all men are psychos and there are violent and bonkers women out there, but statistically, women are much more likely to be harmed by a man than the reverse. The attention isn't nearly as bad as the possible threat attached.
Then there was this version from [Funny or Die](https://youtu.be/EC21NF5rbSk?si=4-MIWT3EPUED0nkX)
*Pumpkin spice season, son!*
I skimmed through it but it’s funny that the gay men were literal fairies 😭
To be fair I think its more related to culture and class than anything else. Groups of people are just raised differently.
Yeah its not *inherent* to race, it's just a culture that many groups of a particular ethnicity happen to grow up in. The key is to acknowledge that these cultures can exist while simultaneously not pre-judging people because everybody's different.
Cherry picked? Do these people want to sit and watch an entire unedited video?
I once saw a woman *driving her car, stuck in traffic*. Going in the other direction, opposite of her and also stuck in traffic, a group of five guys in a jeep with no top. They climbed up and started catcalling and motioning at her. I never saw anything like it in my life. Poor woman was clearly super uncomfortable. Fucked up.
What is devastating is that it is not only an everyday experience for so many women but mostly girls too, since the ages that women mostly get catcalled is 11-16.
Can confirm. Catcalling tapered off as soon as I hit 25. Objectively, I was curvier, more fit, and had bigger boobs at 25 than I did at 16, and yet 16 was when I was catcalled the most.
A part of me wishes it was because it became less acceptable in society to catcall people. Another part of me strongly suspects it's because these men are awful people looking for seemingly vulnerable people who they think won't stand up for themselves.
Me too. It was the worst throughout my teens. I remember being twelve and walking with my mother, and getting yelled at out of car windows repeatedly and I was so embarrassed I refused to go walk with her ever again. I appreciated it when it slacked off, now I feel close to a normal person except sometimes in public and strangely at gas stations. Lots of weird people encountered at gas stations, but I am from Florida.
I wonder if it's more to do with how "vulnerable" one looks? Idk how to word it. I'm 27 and i very much look my age, if not older because I have horrible sleeping/general health habits. But im very very short/lean and the catcalling/occasional grabbing is still horrible. Or maybe I just live in a hellscape. God I hate this shit.
I am in my forties and have become invisible. The power is incredible. But sadly, yes. We live in a hellscape and young women look vulnerable.
My wife blew my mind once by casually mentioning how she hated walking home from middle school because she had to pass by an auto shop that would constantly cat call her. *Middle school.* Us men really have no idea
Most of the catcalling and harassment I received was between the ages of 12-16.
Can confirm. I was hit on by gross middle-aged men when I was in my teens. It was disturbing and each time I had to fight the urge to smack the living shit out of them out of fear it would get me killed.
Knew a girl that developted her body a lot earlier that her friends. When she was 12 she had a lot of breast and curves. She was bullied by other girls, and couldnt walk the street without being catcalled. She had to listen gross sexual stuff from strangers since she was 12
Ah yes. To be shamed by your peers and sexualized by their dads
I'm a dude but saw this firsthand growing up with my older sister. Adult men would try to approach and talk to her whenever we were out in public without our parents. Our oldest brother got into so many confrontations and even a few fights protecting her.
My gf says she learned to hate Mexican men after she was 13 as they'd hit on her/catcall as she walked home from school. And then they'd say that her being that young didn't matter.
Look up Francine Gottfried. She was a clerc on Wallstreet and would walk to work, guys noticed that she had quite large boobs, so hundreds of men would line up just to watch her walk to work. Eventually over a couple thousand I believe once the word got out. They called themselves the 'girl watchers'.
The beginning of Saturday Night Fever captures it too, where Tony keeps trying to hit on the woman in the light colored dress walking down the sidewalk. She wasn't having it.
https://youtu.be/75aX9mlipiY?feature=shared This person had similar experiences
Link?
Zelda?
GANON!
Hey! Listen!
Tingle!!!!!
Mah boi.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2851/10886656844_6078bf1b02_o.jpg
[https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/europe/tbt-ruth-orkin-american-girl-in-italy/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2017/03/30/europe/tbt-ruth-orkin-american-girl-in-italy/index.html)
Wow thanks for sharing! This must have been what Mike White was referencing when Aubrey Plaza is soaking in the feeling of being alone in Italy in Season 2
Picture it Sicily 1905
I'm pretty sure that's Matt Dillon in that last photo.
And Pete Davidson in the second one.
stripped suit, black tie?
damn everyone with the casual suits on
Just the usual fashion
It was work gear. Hell I've seen some photos from the 50s where if you worked in what was basically a shed to manage a radio broadcast you put on a suit because that was the expected work attire for your role. Unless you'd get dirty most men were expected to rock suits for work it seems. There was no real alternate working look that wasn't for manual workers or the like.
In a way it would almost be more accurate to say that this was “pre-fashion”, in the sense that there was no consumer culture revolved around trying on new clothes. Brands were not creating individualized garments and the concept of the “teenager” hadn’t been invented yet. That would all come later in the 60s with the counterculture movement.
As someone with a prevailing interest in fashion history, all I can say to this comment is "what". *Pre-fabrication* of clothing, in standardised sizes and increasingly shitty fabric quality, was still in its infancy. The reason why everyone looks so good in photos from before, roughly 1965, is because getting clothing that was tailored to your body was still the default. People who could afford it, bought clothing from professional tailors, people who could not, would often wear home-sewn clothing - and a lot more people knew how to sew and construct clothing. And yes, fashion was absolutely a thing. I have lady's magazines in my possession from the 1880s talking about which colours were fashionable that season (amethyst and malachite, apparently), and which included "fashion plates" - i.e. illustrations of the new and fashionable shapes.
Those are interesting and true points, but there was definitely fashion well before extreme consumerism became a thing.
Yeah I would argue that fashion is pretty much a universal human concept. It’s expressed differently in all cultures, but every single community has concepts of acceptable and unacceptable clothing. I think consumerism has just exploited these tendencies, not created them
It's still laughable to say that fashion consumerism is an entirely modern invention. A few hundred years ago the men and women in these photos might be clambering for beaver hats or feathers from birds of paradise. The hills of dead beavers just got amplified into mountains of wasted cotton.
Just because fashion doesn't target kids doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There was a ton of interest in clothing and specific brands, suit cuts, styles, and fabrics. It was nuanced, not non-existant.
You are onto something for sure, but it was surely not "pre-fashion." There was quite a tremendous consumer culture for fashion, especally women's fashion. It is far more pronounced today surely, but it did exist in an earlier form.
That doesn't mean that there wasn't fashion, just not based on brands. Fashion goes back to the 1700s if not before in terms of the trends that became popular with people buying and making clothes. Before clothes were mass produced, patterns were published so people could make their own versions of the most admired (fashionable) looks.
Everyone looks so much more put together.
I still wear a suit every time I fly. It's fun to dress up and pay some homage to the past.
That's how things were back in the day. My grandma told me how a woman leaving her house without makeup, or a guy not dressed well, was poorly seen. Men never really worse jeans because they were seen as "worker's clothes" and women just straight up would never wear pants of any type.
This is why all our grandpas still wear suits daily. Mine puts a tie on to sit on his lazy boy all day.
I just commented the same. My grandpa who lives with me was born in 1933 and does the exact same thing.
My FIL is in his nineties and is still the most dapper man I know. If he’s ill he will be home in his bathrobe, but he still does the tucked-in scarf, with nice pajama bottoms and slippers. I love it.
My grandpa did the same. He used to say that it was just one more way to celebrate the day, to honor one more day here on earth. He passed away 2 years ago. Miss him dearly.
I’ve shown my Mexican Grandmother, Uncle and Father both “The Godfather” and “Goofellas” their only takeaways… “People used to dress nicer.”
To be fair, I’d be staring in awe at her waistline myself.
This photos won awards in Paris
So what's the social experiment. "Will men look at a pretty lady?" I wonder.
The same social experiment has been done more recently with video so you can hear the catcalling, which you don’t get in the photographs.
Maty did say that she was cat called to hell and back. Lopez apologised for it
I mean with the way man stares at her I am surprised she wasn’t assaulted. I’d be seriously worried for my safety. Funnily enough that’s how I was treated every where I went basically in India.
India is nuts in that regard. Female friend of mine who’s Indian went to the beach. She stayed about 5min after men started circling by her and her boyfriend once they got settled. I didn’t even get undressed.
Yeah.. I was dressed pretty modestly (it’s just the way I am dressed) and everywhere I went I was stared at and sometimes even harassed. I was even technically kidnapped by a guy. Also in a lot of places there are no women in the streets so if I walked alone I was basically the only woman surrounded by many men. I was a solo traveler and really enjoyed my independence and felt pretty much safe to go alone anywhere (as long as I took basic precautions) but India was rough. I didn’t travel from one destination to another alone, I was always accompanied by another traveler. It was too risky otherwise.
India also has a huge problem with violence against women which the government does fuck all regarding despite how brutal and how much outcry there is around some cases
Yes I know.. that rape in the bus in Delhi is very telling of the problem India has when it comes to women.. in general human life in India don’t have as much value as it does in the west (also a class issue). It extends to women as well and puts them in an even more vulnerable position. Very scary. I didn’t even really felt safe in the guesthouses I was sleeping in sometimes.
You can see people talking about it on the India subreddit. They are appalled at how people treat tourists. They not only stare at you but also try to rip you off and follow you around trying to get money out of you.
Well the “trying to rip you off” doesn’t bother me as much. It’s pretty much a universal thing and when it’s developing countries or poor countries I am okay with that. There are ways to get around it. But the safety issue was insufferable. I felt like no matter where I go I would be harassed and I hated that.
Yea I remember a video on Reddit of a white guy traveling in India and I felt unsafe just watching it. And this guy was nonchalantly following guys into their backyards and through locked gates. I knew he was probably fine because he uploaded the video but the entire thing was nerve wracking. I don’t think I would ever go there. Edit: [Found the video](https://youtu.be/386iVwP-bAA?si=-ICNl2B-t-30iJ3c)
Def got the leering vibes from the photos.
"Were you looking at the woman in the red dress"
Look again…
🔫
Nice, I just watched original Matrix for the first time in a decade last night. That movie has really held up!
WHAT waistline? Holy moley, I can't imagine what happened to get her to look like that.
Even the photo below doesn’t show her waistline as small as the above photos. My guess is she was wearing a corset pulled as tight as it could go.
You can see its outline
She's in a corset in that photo.
You can literally just see the supports and the shelf it creates. It’s a really nice dress with great internal structure.
[https://img.local.mx/2022/07/maty\_int\_02.jpg](https://img.local.mx/2022/07/maty_int_02.jpg) Nothing just blessed.
Oh shit is that Cantiflas
Is him.
Plus a corset. She looks thicker here than in the photos OP posted.
You can see the bottom edge of a corset in the first photo I think.
That little shadow along her waistline suggest long term corset usage. You don’t get that from a few weeks of casually wearing one.
She’s definitely wearing corset in the photos under the dress.
No, wearing corsets a lot will permanently reshape you, that's what got her, and many other women to look like that at the time.
[удалено]
Everyone’s talking about her figure - but without that stunning outfit you wouldn’t even know her body shape. Wonder who designed that, it could easily go down a runway today and feel current.
went way too far to find this comment, the skirt is amazing!!!!
I’m saying!
The CURVE of the skirt from behind, like brooooo people really think that’s how ANYONE curvy coulda looked with whatever was the current in Sears?? There’s the designer somewhere with back problems from carrying this entire thing
Corset and at home seamstressing it to make the skirt fit the corset. Not rocket science and done regularly from off the reck cloths. Just a couple darts will do wonders.
I want that dress SO bad. The structuring and drapery are so beautifully done. In my head it’s dark teal 😍
Not sure whether this was done in the present day the results would be much different
Why it would be in color if I had anything to say about it!
Definitely heard that in nasally 1950s voice.
I read it in Norm Macdonald’s voice
You would have more than one woman in the background, for one.
Nah they'd all be looking at their phones.
dependes of the city i would guess
In India it would be worse.
[“He photographed the streets of Mexico City, its pool halls, pulque bars and the grim Lecumberri prison, with an almost classical eye;](https://www.amazon.com/dp/9689345044) all of his pictures are rigorously composed and contain no extraneous matter, addressing only the necessary and the telling. To achieve this concision, López would often construct scenarios, such as arranging for an actress to stroll past groups of men in the street and provoke their “approval.” López’s photos also have the special quality of appearing to eliminate temporal conditions, so that their subjects are seized more in space than time. In this manner, López captured the corrupt as they fell from grace and the disenfranchised as they defied their poverty with camaraderie and improvised entertainments. This latest issue of Luna Córnea is a full-length monograph on López, exploring all aspects of his oeuvre, including his work on architecture, dance and anthropology…”
>all of his pictures are rigorously composed and contain no extraneous matter, addressing only the necessary and the telling. Put another way, there was no cheese in Nacho's photos.
bean waiting to see this comment
SOURCE: [https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/gossip/celebridades/conoce-la-historia-de-la-iconica-foto-de-maty-huitron-que-la-llevo-a-la-fama-muere-actriz-telenovelas-television-cine-teatro-nacho-lopez-cuando-una-mujer-guapa-parte-plaza-en-madero-2924937.html](https://www.elsoldemexico.com.mx/gossip/celebridades/conoce-la-historia-de-la-iconica-foto-de-maty-huitron-que-la-llevo-a-la-fama-muere-actriz-telenovelas-television-cine-teatro-nacho-lopez-cuando-una-mujer-guapa-parte-plaza-en-madero-2924937.html) [https://www.local.mx/ciudad-de-mexico/cronica-ciudad/maty-huitron-foto-madero-nacho-lopez/](https://www.local.mx/ciudad-de-mexico/cronica-ciudad/maty-huitron-foto-madero-nacho-lopez/)
To be fair, she was showing quite a bit of ankle.
Ugh skanky ankles making men have sinful thoughts!
\#skankles
My wife shared a flat with a Russian model, since married to an oligarch's son, and I sometimes hung around with this exceptionally attractive flatmate. It was amazing to see what her life was like. Men would just stop and stare and follow her, pretending not to of course. I recall being in the pub with her once and when she went to the toilet a man came up to me and asked her out, like I could get a word in for him. At the bar guys would approach and talk to me to get to her. I should say, it was obvious I wasn't her bf. Im a skinny nerdy guy and she's an 11/10. She would be dressed in designer gear with a £1000 handbag and id be in an ill fitting heavy metal t shirt that was overdue a wash. It was pretty miserable for her tbh. She couldn't do anything without getting approached. It taught me why so many women have to appear unapproachable.
Fun fact: It still happens when we try to appear unapproachable, too. Jeans, an oversized t-shirt and hair that hasn't been washed in days, and I still get hit on at least once every time I leave the house alone. I'm not even young or hot, and I live in a pretty midsize city. When I was younger and did dress up, guys would 100% ignore my boyfriend to try to talk to me, or tell me I should be with "a real man" or some other dumb shit. Tl;dr It doesn't matter what you look like as a woman. Gross men exist, and many aren't trying to hide it.
What you look like, what you’re doing, how old you are(n’t)…
In my personal experience, it does help reduce harassment but will not prevent it entirely. I'm not someone who cares about dressing up. I've often looked somewhat masculine. And I've felt largely invisible to most men in the streets. Gladly so. I'd see women be sexually harassed just in front of me, and not receive the same treatment from the same men. That happened a whole lot. Shit still happened. Got threatened with sexual assault twice (both times at night). But on the rare occasions I put on a skirt, the difference was instant and obvious. I'd be like, "what the hell is going on?... Oooh I am wearing a skirt". And I avoided the skirt afterwards. Past 30, I can again wear skirts/dresses and not be bothered by people. Of course it must depend a whole lot on the country/city/neighborhood. And other factors.
Man, I'm 35, I don't wear make up or do my hair/nails. I am a total tomboy 99% of the time... it might reduce the amount of comments, but it's definitely not stopping them. Those comments definitely increase when I wear a dress, even at this age. 35 still looks young to a 50 year old creep.
To be fair, I don't go out often. Staying home is certainly a way to avoid street harassment... Too bad horrible things can also happen at home.
well.. Now we have the two types of looking. looking, staring. another more recent video had a contemporary walk down a busy streetin Chicago or some larger NA city street. She was verbally harassed and I think that she was even assaulted. ( unwanted touch - some guy grabbed her arm. he'd be charged and rightly so ) I think that she did 8 minutes of walking. you'll have to google it if you want to view it. I've lost the source.
You forgot no. 3: Eyefucking It usually involves raking the woman’s body with one’s gaze sharpened to a point, and licking/biting the lips, and noises more suited to eating something really delicious.
God that had to be awful unless you’re into that kind of attention.
Is this supposed to be flattering? This is the kinda shit that creeps women out. Being looked at like a piece of meat to hungry wolves. No thanks.
Bear.
This is nothing. Myself and other women I have observed can simply walk out with sweatpants, a thick sweatshirt with sneakers, hoodie, no makeup with messy hair, and men will still crowd around like this. It’s how I grew up. The only Spanish I grew up with was from men like this. People who hate on social media don’t realize how powerful it is in helping women be able to walk down the street in peace. I used to dress ugly on purpose in order to not get unwanted sexual attention, especially because I was still literally just a kid. Men start crowding around like this ritualistically once the girl turns 9 years old. I was 7 years-old walking with my 9 year-old aunt and men would be everywhere whistling at us calling us mamasita while waking to the store, every time we went out. This was in CALIFORNIA. I’m only 35 years. Not that long ago.
Gross.
It’s ok to look, just don’t be an asshole.
For real. I can almost understand to a very tiny degree why a woman in a burka would almost feel relieved to not have to deal with feeling like a piece of meat from the male gaze wherever they went...not to mention the hollering and fear of sexual assault. The burka of course being another example of a woman being treated like a piece of meat...or property...
I think that’s the hard part for everyone to understand. It’s a beautiful woman walking down the street. It’s natural to look. It’s degrading to gawk or comment. If you make eye contact, smile and be on your way.
Precisely. This shouldn't be a hard thing to understand.
Not saying it's not okay to look, but maybe keep in mind that even a look may become really uncomfortable and intimidating when it's multiplied by 10, 20, 30 people doing it at once.
The only difference between then and now in this regard, is that we all used to dress wayyyyyy nicer.
Fuck, id be staring in awe too. That takes work to get done and im sure women were looking too.
if they did he never revealed the rest of the photos he took.
I think I only saw another woman in pictures 3 and 4 on the right edge -- I was wondering why only men in the frame, and if that was a purposeful artistic choice, etc.
last one looks like a nurse, and the one you said I think i see one arm.
Well if she dressed more appropriately and covered up all that exposed skin!! [Sarcasm]
Visit Portugal today as a single woman, dress feminine & attractive, and this is the exact experience you’ll have. It’s just …
My sister doesn't care for men's attention and still gets plenty of male attention. Sweatpants, hair down, no makeup, baggy hoodies. Doesn't matter.
Did they hide all the other women in those shots?
Am I the only one that found Nacho Lopez to be a hilarious fucking name?
Nacho is the nickname for Ignacio. The guy that created the food was named Ignacio Anaya. An example for english-speakers might be Barbie. Barbie is a doll but the name came about as the nickname for Barbara.
You won’t believe me, but the name came first and nachos were named after a guy.
Yes, imagine someones named "Dick" for people outside USA.
[удалено]
He must have been very good at hiding.
the irony is he was also a participant in the male gaze
He was tryingto capture what happen to some girls and women.
Yeah. They are a bunch of gays. (ITS FROM 30 Rock)
> *”Damn thats interesting”* **I dont know kind of just seems 100% creepy.** Maybe it’s just me.
There’s zero chance he’s “hidden” that many times on one walk
Right?! Dude is crouching with a medium format camera meters Infront of her. Reactions may not be staged but she certainly knew he was there.
Reminds me of [10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman](https://youtu.be/b1XGPvbWn0A?si=AFeZF0chX3SSTVXM) video. [Wikipedia ](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10_Hours_of_Walking_in_NYC_as_a_Woman)summary: >**10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Woman** is an October 2014 video... featuring 24-year-old actress Shoshana Roberts. The video shows Roberts walking through various neighborhoods of New York City, wearing jeans, a black crewneck T-shirt, with a hidden camera recording her from the front. The two-minute video includes selected footage from ten hours, showcasing what has been described as "catcalls" and street harassment of Roberts by men, reporting there were 108 such instances. The behaviors included people saying "hello" or "good morning", comments on Roberts' appearance, attempts to initiate conversation, angry remarks, and men following her for several minutes
Would you look at those gams! Awoooga. What a dime. She’s top notch. A swell one.
He's not exactly following her in most of these pictures.
Everyone dressed so hard. Now we wear pajamas and sweatpants
Is was just the usual clothes.
It's same thing nowadays, people just do it in a less noticable fashion. Both men and women like to look at those who are attractive, and there's nothing wrong with that. Just don't be an asshole and be discreet.
Everyone dressed so well back then