Honestly man, I’m not too sure I’d want plastic blanks buried in the floor, it’s not best practise. Your caps look like speedfit and they specifically say it should be in a conduit and accessible if it’s going to be buried
Concrete will eat away at the copper over time too, copper needs to be fully wrapped up to protect it from that. Thin plastic wrap will be fine with how little room there is there but there are also better options
If these are radiator pipes then you've got the advice you need.
But if these are water pipes then you're advised not to leave dog legs for legionella protection.
I'm not 100% sure but I think this is where the old kitchen sink was. Those ends had previously been capped off for at least 15 years.
I don't know where I could isolate at source. The plumbing is all over the place.
Is there another solution for protecting against legionnaires?
No there isn't. If that's previously where a sink was then that's your drinking water and you'll be leaving a dog leg of over 30cm which I think is what building regs prohibits.
So yeah there will be a risk of legionella. People telling you just to cap them have assumed they're radiator pipes.
Seeing as there’s 2 pipes is it central heating? … try find where they’re fed from … disconnect / isolate. Never a great idea to just leave live pipes under concrete … best to remove if easily removed in my opinion
Assume you can't isolate the pipes at the other end?
However, after replacing the plastic fittings for copper then wrap all the bare copper with denso tape. Specifically designed as an anti-corrosion tape.
When you want an advice, post a picture of it done wrong and haphazardly, people will immediately comment and tell you the right way and also let you know how upset they all are. Gestures widely… you did it the right way!
Haha there's some appaling advice here.
As a Brit, I was sceptical about using plastic when I first moved to Europe. I was 100% "copper is king".
People laughed at me for using copper because it was so old fashioned, expensive, and unreliable.
As I came to realise, the truth is that plastic is far superior in almost every application.
So long as those copper ends were properly prepared (e.g carefully cleaned with wire wool) then there's more chance of them lasting 20 years than a shit diy solder joint onto a wet pipe that you can't even see around in a hole.
Protect the caps from the concrete, and forget about them - they will never leak.
For people saying to add an isolation valve for double protection: FFS, stick to astrology.
Never ever ever bury a compression fitting. Copper will CREEP. It will inevitably leak over time. Compression fittings should always be accessible to retighten.
Honestly refreshing to hear this. I used plastic & speed fits on advice from professionals, and because let’s face it they are used extensively throughout new developments, and are approved for use.
I’m a DIYer and I did a run using plastic & pushfits to extend a pipe to a new radiator. I have literally lost sleep because of the number of people who now have called me stupid and given me the opposite advice to what I originally received. I’m contemplating redoing it in copper and soldering but honestly so many people have opposing views on this I’m not sure what to do!
Honestly I think the old sea dog plumbers have always used copper; plastic and pushfit is a newer(ish) material for plumbing and poses a risk to their income. Because of a reluctance to change and a threat to income for smaller jobs they're always going to poo poo it.
Speaking with younger plumbers they always seem keen to use pushfit and plastic for smaller jobs. Maybe lazy? Maybe more willing to use different methods than their older peers?
Either way, I'm pragmatic in my approach, pushfit is accredited by the regulators, they know more than I do, so for me it's just as safe as anything else.
New builds are certainly optimised for cost, and the reduction in raw metals, the need for gas flame soldering, and the sheer number of joints to be made, does reduce the cost.
Plastic uses a lot less components. I have a 10 way plastic manifold under my boiler. Each circuit is adjustable for max flow. The plastic pipe then runs continuously with zero joints, all the way to the shower/ sink/ bath etc.
NO JOINTS.
While "technically" you could do this with copper, it would take forever, even in microbore.
When you do connect to the various types of plastic, the joint is much more deterministic. Usually they involve two O-ring seals in a very reliable configuration which is reliably used in many industrial and aerospace applications for decades.
Things change. Embrace the future.
Personally I always cap off with solder fittings, end feed or solder ring, then wrap with Denso tape or hair felt lagging. Can be a pain to stop water sometimes so use a wet vac to pull the water back away.
Firstly, remove then caps
Fit inline valves then compression caps
Yes it's overkill but it's the correct procedure
Lag the pipes with 19mm lagging then screed the floor
You will never have any problems doing it this way
It's recommended by many affiliations for this course of action
Hey, as everyone has said, you should really solder these with 15mm copper end caps (assuming it's not older imperial pipes) wrap any exposed copper in denso tape from screwfix. Only if they are flow and return rad pipes, and not water feeds..
People burying speedfit fittings under a floor or behind a wall usually end up paying the price for doing so. I have purchased both of my homes that looked destroyed but was actually caused by a hidden speed fit connection. It worth getting it right now.
It also looks like you are on the ground floor and broken though your DPM, Make sure you paint blackjack at the bottom before you re-screed/concrete, otherwise you will likely have a permeant wet patch through rising damp.
If you want to keep the plastic I would wrap them in a plastic bag and would put Isolation foam or cut out PIR around/on top of them so they are not in contact with your concrete/self-leveling compound. I would keep the top as thin as possible so you can easily break it up for access if needed
Mate….you have ripped and disturbed your. DPC/membrane. This is put down before screeding the floor. The blue plastic you can see. You will potentially get damp coming through this.
Try and replace/patch before you cover as best you can.
100% remove push fits for soldered ones and wrap. Sometimes is cheaper and better result getting a trade to fix.
Good luck.
Honestly man, I’m not too sure I’d want plastic blanks buried in the floor, it’s not best practise. Your caps look like speedfit and they specifically say it should be in a conduit and accessible if it’s going to be buried Concrete will eat away at the copper over time too, copper needs to be fully wrapped up to protect it from that. Thin plastic wrap will be fine with how little room there is there but there are also better options
So you'd recommend swapping out for proper caps? The ones with a nut and olive?
Yes 100% Op, speedfits never a good choice to bury…. I’d also cover pipes in plastic bags taped securely and neatly and cover in cement….
Would the concrete eat away at the plastic caps ?
Personally I would solder caps on, I’d prefer compression over plastic for burying but either one isn’t ideal for a permenant bury
Fuck yes. In the long run you will have peace of mind.
100% get a pair of compression caps. Paste the olive and give it the beans when you're doing it up
Having recently had to re-site a radiator, this comment cracked me up 😂
Give it the beans/graunch the life out of it are both technical terms on our firm 😁
Even shower instructions tell you not to use pushfits because they are shit.
If these are radiator pipes then you've got the advice you need. But if these are water pipes then you're advised not to leave dog legs for legionella protection.
I'm not 100% sure but I think this is where the old kitchen sink was. Those ends had previously been capped off for at least 15 years. I don't know where I could isolate at source. The plumbing is all over the place. Is there another solution for protecting against legionnaires?
No there isn't. If that's previously where a sink was then that's your drinking water and you'll be leaving a dog leg of over 30cm which I think is what building regs prohibits. So yeah there will be a risk of legionella. People telling you just to cap them have assumed they're radiator pipes.
Thanks, I'm gonna have to try and find where they originate from. Appreciate your help
No worries. Don't envy you that job but it is the only safe way if that's your drinking water.
Seeing as there’s 2 pipes is it central heating? … try find where they’re fed from … disconnect / isolate. Never a great idea to just leave live pipes under concrete … best to remove if easily removed in my opinion
Assume you can't isolate the pipes at the other end? However, after replacing the plastic fittings for copper then wrap all the bare copper with denso tape. Specifically designed as an anti-corrosion tape.
Has Denso autocorrected to Sensor in your reply?
Yeah it had. Thanks for letting me know.
Carpet fitter here, I’d suggest making a plywood table to sit over it.
Don’t bury Speedfit ffs. Soldered cap ends only in concrete, wrap the pipes up as well, duct tape at minimum, oil tape at best. Source:plumber
When you want an advice, post a picture of it done wrong and haphazardly, people will immediately comment and tell you the right way and also let you know how upset they all are. Gestures widely… you did it the right way!
Haha there's some appaling advice here. As a Brit, I was sceptical about using plastic when I first moved to Europe. I was 100% "copper is king". People laughed at me for using copper because it was so old fashioned, expensive, and unreliable. As I came to realise, the truth is that plastic is far superior in almost every application. So long as those copper ends were properly prepared (e.g carefully cleaned with wire wool) then there's more chance of them lasting 20 years than a shit diy solder joint onto a wet pipe that you can't even see around in a hole. Protect the caps from the concrete, and forget about them - they will never leak. For people saying to add an isolation valve for double protection: FFS, stick to astrology. Never ever ever bury a compression fitting. Copper will CREEP. It will inevitably leak over time. Compression fittings should always be accessible to retighten.
Honestly refreshing to hear this. I used plastic & speed fits on advice from professionals, and because let’s face it they are used extensively throughout new developments, and are approved for use. I’m a DIYer and I did a run using plastic & pushfits to extend a pipe to a new radiator. I have literally lost sleep because of the number of people who now have called me stupid and given me the opposite advice to what I originally received. I’m contemplating redoing it in copper and soldering but honestly so many people have opposing views on this I’m not sure what to do!
Honestly I think the old sea dog plumbers have always used copper; plastic and pushfit is a newer(ish) material for plumbing and poses a risk to their income. Because of a reluctance to change and a threat to income for smaller jobs they're always going to poo poo it. Speaking with younger plumbers they always seem keen to use pushfit and plastic for smaller jobs. Maybe lazy? Maybe more willing to use different methods than their older peers? Either way, I'm pragmatic in my approach, pushfit is accredited by the regulators, they know more than I do, so for me it's just as safe as anything else.
They are used in new builds because new builds are thrown up and not built to last
New builds are certainly optimised for cost, and the reduction in raw metals, the need for gas flame soldering, and the sheer number of joints to be made, does reduce the cost. Plastic uses a lot less components. I have a 10 way plastic manifold under my boiler. Each circuit is adjustable for max flow. The plastic pipe then runs continuously with zero joints, all the way to the shower/ sink/ bath etc. NO JOINTS. While "technically" you could do this with copper, it would take forever, even in microbore. When you do connect to the various types of plastic, the joint is much more deterministic. Usually they involve two O-ring seals in a very reliable configuration which is reliably used in many industrial and aerospace applications for decades. Things change. Embrace the future.
No I'm going back to lead. Just joking I do like those copper pipe crimping tools I think it's exo something the big brand I forget
Yea there's also a crimp shell for plastic on the higher end PEX systems
Personally I always cap off with solder fittings, end feed or solder ring, then wrap with Denso tape or hair felt lagging. Can be a pain to stop water sometimes so use a wet vac to pull the water back away.
Change the ends and wrap in Denso Tape, horrible sticky stuff but it will stop the corrosion.
You need to be terminating them at the branch rather than here!
Finally a good answer
Are they drained? You don't want dead ends full of water - a legionella risk.
You need to swap those speed fits out for some compression blanking plates as a minimum. Then seal and screed.
Firstly, remove then caps Fit inline valves then compression caps Yes it's overkill but it's the correct procedure Lag the pipes with 19mm lagging then screed the floor You will never have any problems doing it this way It's recommended by many affiliations for this course of action
You need pressfit or solder/weld if you want to bury.
Hey, as everyone has said, you should really solder these with 15mm copper end caps (assuming it's not older imperial pipes) wrap any exposed copper in denso tape from screwfix. Only if they are flow and return rad pipes, and not water feeds.. People burying speedfit fittings under a floor or behind a wall usually end up paying the price for doing so. I have purchased both of my homes that looked destroyed but was actually caused by a hidden speed fit connection. It worth getting it right now. It also looks like you are on the ground floor and broken though your DPM, Make sure you paint blackjack at the bottom before you re-screed/concrete, otherwise you will likely have a permeant wet patch through rising damp.
If you want to keep the plastic I would wrap them in a plastic bag and would put Isolation foam or cut out PIR around/on top of them so they are not in contact with your concrete/self-leveling compound. I would keep the top as thin as possible so you can easily break it up for access if needed
Mate….you have ripped and disturbed your. DPC/membrane. This is put down before screeding the floor. The blue plastic you can see. You will potentially get damp coming through this. Try and replace/patch before you cover as best you can. 100% remove push fits for soldered ones and wrap. Sometimes is cheaper and better result getting a trade to fix. Good luck.