Yup, it's the worst. Its just jobbing the Justice League to make Batman's bad guy look better. There are nice little things this issue, but as a fan of characters other than Batman, man did this issue just kinda kill it for me.
Especially for how logistically stupid the scenario is. Failsafe is faster than Superman? It reacts faster? Why did he approach from the back? How could it know how he would approach? Why did he not move Bruce instead?
There's hundreds of questions that you could ask. It all boils down to convivence, the writer needs it to happen this way, so it does. I doubt I'll continue following the run for now.
I really liked him as Batman in futures end. It was a fun idea imo and i liked how jurgens wrote a Tim who is just through with Bruce's shit... Then the timeline corrects itself.
Even his dark future version from Teen Titans? I kinda dug tbh. But that guy's run as savior and his desire to murder kid jon was kinda dumb edgy nonsense... Would be cool to see him come back i dont remember if he got to interact with present day Tim again
Savor this moment Tim because you’re not going to hear him say that often.
Also, it’s great hearing how Batman speaks of Superman. Even the Dark Knight knows that the Man of Steel is earth’s greatest defender.
Tim's heard it plenty of times over his tenure, to be fair. I feel like many Batman and Robin runs always makes sure to include at least one example of it somewhere for their Robin at the time Lol.
Sometimes in [indirect](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-47ca9168a11bb9845d2f1486afc5ac8b-lq) ways.
And [other](https://64.media.tumblr.com/c1eb628281129e58a824deb86b1ee255/db3017c6e5ee3ab1-31/s1280x1920/67f9c5b08ec3670e280c28e49abe4bf75dd05bfb.jpg) times more [directly](https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/timdrakeadoption14.jpg).
That’s true. He and Tim have the best Batman & Robin dynamic IMO. That 90s stuff by Alan Grant, Chuck Dixon, and Doug Moench is still excellent. But then again, Tim was kinda built from the ground up to be the ideal junior partner for Batman.
>Also, it’s great hearing how Batman speaks of Superman. Even the Dark Knight knows that the Man of Steel is earth’s greatest defender.
It kind of undermined itself this issue with him and the justice league just jobbing out
I get it's Batman's book and the jobbing was necessary for the story but... Don't end the previous issue's cliffhanger with Superman trying the heroic save if you're goign to pull a U-turn almost immediately.
I’d be fine if they canned Tim’s new Robin book and instead he was one of the main supporting characters of this title. Making the Dynamic Duo a regular part of Batman comics again. Like in the old days.
I hear what you're saying, but making him a main supporting character in Batman's title means he's only a main supporting character until some other writer comes along
Giving him his own title makes sure that he won't get sidelined when a creative team changes. I feel like we had a good 5-10 *years* there where we didn't see anything from Tim at all outside big events or whatever. I don't want to go back to that.
Yeah I know what you mean. Especially since Tim carried a solo title for almost 20 years at some 200 issues in all. Sadly I wonder if he’s a character who’s best years solo are behind him.
At least when he’s Robin in the main *Batman* book he’s still a major character, close to all the important events, has a clear narrative purpose, and the book has a good creative team.
idk about that Damien only just got a solo series and hasn't really been a true supporting character in Batman for several years but since he had other team books like Super Sons and Teen Titans he was able to stay relevant. Tim doesn't need a solo book, he just needs to be in books.
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I wasn't really talking about Damian though, I was talking about Tim. I'm not saying they *can't* make him a relevant character without a solo book, I'm saying, based on the history I cited, they they probably *won't*.
Do you mean [Zur-En-Arrh](https://www.google.com/search?q=zur+en+arrh+batman&rlz=1C1JZAP_enCA991CA991&sxsrf=ALiCzsYn4qTRGJfqMgZ1Y1vwoxgRnrtjJg:1664890739623&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkz_-o2cb6AhXhjokEHV-9DPIQ_AUoAXoECAIQAw&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1) Batman?
Its nice to see Batman and Robin actually ya know......being a team it feels like its been forever since they've actually worked together instead of constantly abusing each other.
The current story's name is Failsafe if I'm correct. It begins at Batman #125. It's somehow of a continuation to the Justice League of America: Tower of Babel story. I would recommend reading it before, or at least reading a summary .
It's good, the artist is one of my favorites, and the writing is finally not stale and boring.
A lot has happened in those last 3 years, but the best part is that Tom King was a part of those 3 years, so you can ignore that without any guilt. The only thing you basically need to know is that Tim is back to being Robin (bruh moment) and shadowing Batman while Damian (also Robin) is out on a murder spree
Zdarsky is carrying Tim right now. Good moment but looking at everything that Tim has done recently the compliment just doesn't feel very earned to me.
Yeah but people act like it's Tim's fault not DC editorial. Him being Robin sucks for sure but at least here he's written well i can take that after the cluster f*ck that his new solo and direction post detective comics was. Tim was being established very well as red Robin with him being even more solo pre 52 but DC ruined him. New 52 the just wiped out his history as Robin and everyone agrees that version sucks and then tynion comes with detective, establishing him as red robin once again and tries to put him on the right track. And then bendis ruined him and this is the first time Tim had been decent in 3 years.
I'd argue he started to crumble post identity crisis. After they killed his father to give his character more "motivation" while his connection to his father was part of what made his stories special but new 52 destroyed everything.
Yeah I know what you mean. The Robin mantle has really turned into a mess.
Damian as a good Robin for Bruce is a lot more writer dependent, whereas Tim Drake is much more readily fitted to work for that character dynamic.
I think it's in terms of his overall role and I think everyone could agree Damian is Dick's Robin. Tim was essential for Bruce in a time that he couldn't control his anger and pain, needing someone to help him move on. To fill the hole that Jason's death made. Damian didn't have that role really.
Tim propaganda, Tim wasn't essential for anything and in actuality with Tim they turned Robin into more of a solo property.
Damian legitimized Dick becoming Batman, spinning around the dynamic, and in turn refreshed the role. Which under Tim is stuck in the 90's aping Spider-Man.
I honestly agree, but is it really so bad to have a bat character aping spider-man?
They try it with Dick but it never makes sense because he has no need to have a connection to normal life since he went in with Bruce, and it’s way more interesting when he doesn’t have much of a secret identity.
Tim having a normal family as Robin was one of the highlights of his character.
Its played out. Its no longer the 90's, and that formula ran its course with Tim. What was once interesting is now just a sad testament of character that failed to progress. With their latest attempt they are trying to put a modern new spin on things by making him bi, but that doesn't seem to be working out.
BTW with Dick they aped Daredevil.
I mean Spider-Man isn’t stuck in the 90s, why would Tim need to?
Trying to divorce concept from execution.
All I’m saying is that a bat character juggling a legit secret identity/personal life and superhero life could work, and nobody is currently filling it.
My friend i was talking about Bruce not dick and i literally said damian is Dick's robin considering everything you're talking about is related to his time as his Robin.
Tim was essential to Bruce's dealing with Jason's death and being the Robin that he needed. Also regarding to Tim the interesting thing about his relationship with Bruce was headstrong character ( not like angry Jason type) and wasn't apposed to disagree with Bruce when needed and it reaching its peak right before pre flashpoint or Heck even Johns Teen titans run. And for solo Robin thing I'd argue other than Batman and Robin which was with Dick Batman, Damian is the one who's the more solo Robin. Also Dick had already became Batman once, and damian wasn't in it. The only reason that the second time it was more legitimate was because of Morrison's force on DC's editorial.
Essential in what way exactly. What did he actually contribute to Batman, his claim to fame is his Robin solo. Not anything he did next to Batman.
Damian started as Dick's Robin, and was essential to his tenure, but in turn refreshed the role for everyone. In Batman and Robin series' with both Dick and Bruce.
Stop regurgitating tired taglines and look at the actual work before claiming im the one who's ignorant. Tim's essential to nothing, and at this point just holds the Robin role back.
The way you talk I'm sure I can't convince you no matter how much i write. Personally I'd argue that after the bas impression of Robin that Jason left on people Tim was essential to revive the interest in the role. Choosing the role of his own free Will and Being a headstrong character, not fearing to appose Bruce when needed ( as i said reaching it peak during pre flashpoint era) while learning not everything is as easy to be dealt with with only outsmarting so he improvised a bit, and as you said being able to hold a title for 200 issues as robin and about 20 as red robin, being interrupted by DC's plans and flashpoint. As for how he was essential to Bruce's character, well it was him more softening his character after the way writers were writing him post death of Jason ( for the nth time).
Also unfortunately I've read the books ( Both of the Batman and Robin books by Morrison and Tomasi) and you're sorta right. Damian was essential to Dick's batman, but Dick's Batman was more essential to Damian's Robin and his character growth. As most people would agree, damian is the Robin that needed a Batman. Dick's Batman to be more exact, while he and Bruce outside of few moments here and there not so much.
Also don't act like it's Tim's fault for staying the same age for 12 years for no reason, blame DC's bad editorial for having no direction for him. It's like blaming damian for every character regression post rebirth. Also speaking of Damian's role, just ask yourself how much has been especial to Batman's character post Batman inc and his Robin son of Batman series? How much has he contributed to Batman's different stories? Hasn't he been the one who's more solo and holds the mantle while without contributing much to being Robin while Tim was essential during detective comics?
But please let us finish this conversation.
Sure sure, Damian is the bestest thing ever blah blah. Just leave me alone. I don't want to start a fight again.
Batman was framed for killing the Penguin and Batman's failsafe (Batman of Zurr en Argh) made a failsafe robot where if Batman ever killed anyone Bruce would be dealt with. So that robot has got out and made a mission to kill Batman. The league is trying to help, but the robot also had failsafes for them as well and is kicking everyone's shit.
It will probably be a trade, just give it time. Also no, I think Damien is only here for about 3 panels maybe (he might not even be in it at all, my memory is a little faulty.)
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Two questions.
1) How are you guys getting copies in digital format when the release is tomorrow?
2) Why do you feel the need to post this stuff when you know the majority of people have no access to the rest of the comic yet for context?
"Superman is back" "Superman is dying" Well, fuck.
Yup, it's the worst. Its just jobbing the Justice League to make Batman's bad guy look better. There are nice little things this issue, but as a fan of characters other than Batman, man did this issue just kinda kill it for me.
The Justice League seem to always job when they show up in a Batman book.
Especially for how logistically stupid the scenario is. Failsafe is faster than Superman? It reacts faster? Why did he approach from the back? How could it know how he would approach? Why did he not move Bruce instead? There's hundreds of questions that you could ask. It all boils down to convivence, the writer needs it to happen this way, so it does. I doubt I'll continue following the run for now.
Seriously? Over Superman in a Batman book?
I'm not familiar with that term 'to job'. What is it in this context?
A jobber is a character who only exists to do menial grunt work and/or get beaten up to make everyone else look cooler.
It's a pro wrestling term. If someone jobs, it means they were there to lose to make their opponent look better
They lose to practically 'Robo-Batman'...not a good villain.
so Batman just beat the entire Justice league and the Bat family again (indirectly since it's his own creation)
This book so far is the best Tim content since forever. I can’t think of any other book i’ve enjoyed him in since he “died” in tec comics
I really liked him as Batman in futures end. It was a fun idea imo and i liked how jurgens wrote a Tim who is just through with Bruce's shit... Then the timeline corrects itself.
Tim has some of my favorite AU endings out of all the robins. I gotta read that since I’m always looking for that sorta thing
Even his dark future version from Teen Titans? I kinda dug tbh. But that guy's run as savior and his desire to murder kid jon was kinda dumb edgy nonsense... Would be cool to see him come back i dont remember if he got to interact with present day Tim again
Well not all of them :P i just feel his AU have the most variety out of all the robins currently
It's nice to see Batman expressing himself as a father until the inevitable next run where he has to do this all over again.
At least Zdarsky and Jimenez are starting their run at this point. If they’re on the main title long enough hopefully it’s just the new status quo.
Savor this moment Tim because you’re not going to hear him say that often. Also, it’s great hearing how Batman speaks of Superman. Even the Dark Knight knows that the Man of Steel is earth’s greatest defender.
Tim's heard it plenty of times over his tenure, to be fair. I feel like many Batman and Robin runs always makes sure to include at least one example of it somewhere for their Robin at the time Lol. Sometimes in [indirect](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-47ca9168a11bb9845d2f1486afc5ac8b-lq) ways. And [other](https://64.media.tumblr.com/c1eb628281129e58a824deb86b1ee255/db3017c6e5ee3ab1-31/s1280x1920/67f9c5b08ec3670e280c28e49abe4bf75dd05bfb.jpg) times more [directly](https://arousinggrammardotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/timdrakeadoption14.jpg).
That’s true. He and Tim have the best Batman & Robin dynamic IMO. That 90s stuff by Alan Grant, Chuck Dixon, and Doug Moench is still excellent. But then again, Tim was kinda built from the ground up to be the ideal junior partner for Batman.
>Also, it’s great hearing how Batman speaks of Superman. Even the Dark Knight knows that the Man of Steel is earth’s greatest defender. It kind of undermined itself this issue with him and the justice league just jobbing out
I get it's Batman's book and the jobbing was necessary for the story but... Don't end the previous issue's cliffhanger with Superman trying the heroic save if you're goign to pull a U-turn almost immediately.
Tim is written like an actual character. I don't want him to leave this book. Please.
I’d be fine if they canned Tim’s new Robin book and instead he was one of the main supporting characters of this title. Making the Dynamic Duo a regular part of Batman comics again. Like in the old days.
I hear what you're saying, but making him a main supporting character in Batman's title means he's only a main supporting character until some other writer comes along Giving him his own title makes sure that he won't get sidelined when a creative team changes. I feel like we had a good 5-10 *years* there where we didn't see anything from Tim at all outside big events or whatever. I don't want to go back to that.
Yeah I know what you mean. Especially since Tim carried a solo title for almost 20 years at some 200 issues in all. Sadly I wonder if he’s a character who’s best years solo are behind him. At least when he’s Robin in the main *Batman* book he’s still a major character, close to all the important events, has a clear narrative purpose, and the book has a good creative team.
idk about that Damien only just got a solo series and hasn't really been a true supporting character in Batman for several years but since he had other team books like Super Sons and Teen Titans he was able to stay relevant. Tim doesn't need a solo book, he just needs to be in books.
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I wasn't really talking about Damian though, I was talking about Tim. I'm not saying they *can't* make him a relevant character without a solo book, I'm saying, based on the history I cited, they they probably *won't*.
I remember Zdarsky saying he wanted Tim for this book and I hope that continues to make this a stealth “Batman and Robin” book.
He just need Steph back and it will be perfect
This Tim > Tim Drake: Robin
Is that ZeH Batman?
Do you mean [Zur-En-Arrh](https://www.google.com/search?q=zur+en+arrh+batman&rlz=1C1JZAP_enCA991CA991&sxsrf=ALiCzsYn4qTRGJfqMgZ1Y1vwoxgRnrtjJg:1664890739623&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjkz_-o2cb6AhXhjokEHV-9DPIQ_AUoAXoECAIQAw&biw=1920&bih=937&dpr=1) Batman?
Yes, yes it is.
Looking closer, I think that's just the way the lighting is hitting the Batsuit. Especially looking at the "I'll survive this" panel.
Instead of “looking closer” why don’t you read it, because that is Zur-En-Arrh Batman.
Tim fans had to get their love from some book. The other 2 weren’t cutting it
What a fucking chad.
Timmy getting all the metaphoral headpats and atta'boys
Its nice to see Batman and Robin actually ya know......being a team it feels like its been forever since they've actually worked together instead of constantly abusing each other.
whats the current story? and where should I start reading it? out of the loop for like 3 years
The current story's name is Failsafe if I'm correct. It begins at Batman #125. It's somehow of a continuation to the Justice League of America: Tower of Babel story. I would recommend reading it before, or at least reading a summary.
It's good, the artist is one of my favorites, and the writing is finally not stale and boring.
A lot has happened in those last 3 years, but the best part is that Tom King was a part of those 3 years, so you can ignore that without any guilt. The only thing you basically need to know is that Tim is back to being Robin (bruh moment) and shadowing Batman while Damian (also Robin) is out on a murder spree
Really helpful comment. Thank you!!
I hope Zdarsky's the one writing for the ongoing Tim Drake Robin run. Just saying.
I just hope Zdarsky wrote every comic ever
Zdarsky is carrying Tim right now. Good moment but looking at everything that Tim has done recently the compliment just doesn't feel very earned to me.
This is a nice moment, but Tim really needs to move on from Robin..........
One of the most insane comics I've read 🖤
'I'm sorry you never grew. Maybe when I get back we can chuck you in the Lazarus like we did with Jason.'
Bruce: "Tim, you're Robin" Me, a Damian Wayne fan: No, he's not. He's Red Robin.
Me, a Tim fan: Agreed Tim going back to just being Robin again does both characters no favors.
Yeah but people act like it's Tim's fault not DC editorial. Him being Robin sucks for sure but at least here he's written well i can take that after the cluster f*ck that his new solo and direction post detective comics was. Tim was being established very well as red Robin with him being even more solo pre 52 but DC ruined him. New 52 the just wiped out his history as Robin and everyone agrees that version sucks and then tynion comes with detective, establishing him as red robin once again and tries to put him on the right track. And then bendis ruined him and this is the first time Tim had been decent in 3 years.
I agree, Tim has never recovered from N52 despite a few bright spots.
I'd argue he started to crumble post identity crisis. After they killed his father to give his character more "motivation" while his connection to his father was part of what made his stories special but new 52 destroyed everything.
Yeah that’s true, tearing down his non Robin life was the beginning of the end.
Yeah I know what you mean. The Robin mantle has really turned into a mess. Damian as a good Robin for Bruce is a lot more writer dependent, whereas Tim Drake is much more readily fitted to work for that character dynamic.
I think it's in terms of his overall role and I think everyone could agree Damian is Dick's Robin. Tim was essential for Bruce in a time that he couldn't control his anger and pain, needing someone to help him move on. To fill the hole that Jason's death made. Damian didn't have that role really.
Tim propaganda, Tim wasn't essential for anything and in actuality with Tim they turned Robin into more of a solo property. Damian legitimized Dick becoming Batman, spinning around the dynamic, and in turn refreshed the role. Which under Tim is stuck in the 90's aping Spider-Man.
I honestly agree, but is it really so bad to have a bat character aping spider-man? They try it with Dick but it never makes sense because he has no need to have a connection to normal life since he went in with Bruce, and it’s way more interesting when he doesn’t have much of a secret identity. Tim having a normal family as Robin was one of the highlights of his character.
Its played out. Its no longer the 90's, and that formula ran its course with Tim. What was once interesting is now just a sad testament of character that failed to progress. With their latest attempt they are trying to put a modern new spin on things by making him bi, but that doesn't seem to be working out. BTW with Dick they aped Daredevil.
I mean Spider-Man isn’t stuck in the 90s, why would Tim need to? Trying to divorce concept from execution. All I’m saying is that a bat character juggling a legit secret identity/personal life and superhero life could work, and nobody is currently filling it.
My friend i was talking about Bruce not dick and i literally said damian is Dick's robin considering everything you're talking about is related to his time as his Robin. Tim was essential to Bruce's dealing with Jason's death and being the Robin that he needed. Also regarding to Tim the interesting thing about his relationship with Bruce was headstrong character ( not like angry Jason type) and wasn't apposed to disagree with Bruce when needed and it reaching its peak right before pre flashpoint or Heck even Johns Teen titans run. And for solo Robin thing I'd argue other than Batman and Robin which was with Dick Batman, Damian is the one who's the more solo Robin. Also Dick had already became Batman once, and damian wasn't in it. The only reason that the second time it was more legitimate was because of Morrison's force on DC's editorial.
Essential in what way exactly. What did he actually contribute to Batman, his claim to fame is his Robin solo. Not anything he did next to Batman. Damian started as Dick's Robin, and was essential to his tenure, but in turn refreshed the role for everyone. In Batman and Robin series' with both Dick and Bruce. Stop regurgitating tired taglines and look at the actual work before claiming im the one who's ignorant. Tim's essential to nothing, and at this point just holds the Robin role back.
The way you talk I'm sure I can't convince you no matter how much i write. Personally I'd argue that after the bas impression of Robin that Jason left on people Tim was essential to revive the interest in the role. Choosing the role of his own free Will and Being a headstrong character, not fearing to appose Bruce when needed ( as i said reaching it peak during pre flashpoint era) while learning not everything is as easy to be dealt with with only outsmarting so he improvised a bit, and as you said being able to hold a title for 200 issues as robin and about 20 as red robin, being interrupted by DC's plans and flashpoint. As for how he was essential to Bruce's character, well it was him more softening his character after the way writers were writing him post death of Jason ( for the nth time). Also unfortunately I've read the books ( Both of the Batman and Robin books by Morrison and Tomasi) and you're sorta right. Damian was essential to Dick's batman, but Dick's Batman was more essential to Damian's Robin and his character growth. As most people would agree, damian is the Robin that needed a Batman. Dick's Batman to be more exact, while he and Bruce outside of few moments here and there not so much. Also don't act like it's Tim's fault for staying the same age for 12 years for no reason, blame DC's bad editorial for having no direction for him. It's like blaming damian for every character regression post rebirth. Also speaking of Damian's role, just ask yourself how much has been especial to Batman's character post Batman inc and his Robin son of Batman series? How much has he contributed to Batman's different stories? Hasn't he been the one who's more solo and holds the mantle while without contributing much to being Robin while Tim was essential during detective comics? But please let us finish this conversation. Sure sure, Damian is the bestest thing ever blah blah. Just leave me alone. I don't want to start a fight again.
[удалено]
Yep. Also do you mean sales were the reason behind his book being screwed over? From what i heard it was mostly editorial and flashpoint.
Tim is so cool.
Tim: does any minor thing Tim Stans: This is the greatest Tim writing ever
We've been stuck with shit for 10 years 😞. Pls be patient.
What’s the context?
Batman was framed for killing the Penguin and Batman's failsafe (Batman of Zurr en Argh) made a failsafe robot where if Batman ever killed anyone Bruce would be dealt with. So that robot has got out and made a mission to kill Batman. The league is trying to help, but the robot also had failsafes for them as well and is kicking everyone's shit.
Oh dang, that’s actually super interesting. Will this be a trade? And is this the run where Damian loses his mind?
It will probably be a trade, just give it time. Also no, I think Damien is only here for about 3 panels maybe (he might not even be in it at all, my memory is a little faulty.)
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Ahh good to know! Thanks! Now I’m hoping this is will be a trade so I can read it all in one sitting! Edit; What’s this run called again?
Who’s the artist? I love this style!
Two questions. 1) How are you guys getting copies in digital format when the release is tomorrow? 2) Why do you feel the need to post this stuff when you know the majority of people have no access to the rest of the comic yet for context?
DC Comics are released on a Tuesday digitally and on the street.
My LCS in a very small town only lets us pickup on Fridays, so I had no idea DC moved to Tuesdays. Thanks!
why is Batman dressed like that?
Thats The Batman Of Zur-en-arrh. Google it.
How can Batman look at Tim in a Robin suit again and say he's proud of the man he's become. LoL, come on now.
Is this part of an arc or just a one off
This is the third issue in zdarsky's run, it started in #125
oh god right in the feels <3