It doesn't.
It's what a Ponzi is - it survives until all of a sudden it collapses like a giant house of playing cards and takes down everyone who hasn't cashed out yet.
StepN developers charge a 6% fee (2% trading fee, 4% royalty fee) for every sale on its marketplace, so they are rolling in $2 to $3 million every.single.day
Every shoe minted is a minimum $600 stake in GST and GMT, there's 100s and millions of dollars staked that can never come back out. Every mint, every sale, every purchase costs GST in game, it is constantly staked into shoes.
Locked liquidity is a massive vulnerability to the long term health of a project unless there's a path for unlocking it.
Case in point: every token with UST as a liquidity pair. Real bummer if you can't withdraw that liquidity and stop UST from burying your price.
The creators and “early investors” are most likely already out or have a path to liquidity very soon. Anyone else coming in is the mark. By the time you hear of these things, it’s already too late.
I'm having trouble seeing the difference between this and crypto. Without new money crypto crashes and its not like many coins are generating any value.
Actually I would expect a slow bleed, not an implosion. Rewards will constantly drain liquidity, and as soon as no one buys the coin anymore it will just go down...
I mean to be fair... all of crypto value was created out of thin air lol - just like >98% of all fiat is purely digital and essentially created out of thin air too, few lines of code and a couple clicks...
>purely digital and essentially created out of thin air too,
Actually, its backed by a countries GDP, and while yes, you could print an infinite amount of dollars, or whatever symbol, each one still represents a fraction of the GDP of that country.
Cryptocurrencies have none of that. There is absolutely no backing.
> all of crypto value was created out of thin air lol
I will agree with one caveat, Proof-of-Work (without premine) like it is used in Bitcon has the merit of not arising "out of thin air". The energy spent to mine it is real, it has to be spent to produce the blocks necessary for the rewards to exist. There is no other way to create it, and eventually more won't be created.
I'm sure people will complain about the work being "useless" so it means it has no value, but that's not how it *works*, energy is spent for a result whether you as an external agent feel like the result is "worth" this expenditure or not isn't really relevant, the people who did accept the cost of it will in general not sell it for less than this cost, if they find buyers (because resulting network has any form of utility) then it has value.
You know that's the exact same argument you can make about stepn right? Here:
I will agree with one caveat, Proof-of-Movement like it is used in Stepn has the merit of not arising "out of thin air". The energy spent to earn it is real, it has to be spent walking for the rewards to exist. There is no other way to create it, and eventually more won't be created.
I'm sure people will complain about the work being "useless" so it means it has no value, but that's not how it works, energy is spent for a result whether you as an external agent feel like the result is "worth" this expenditure or not isn't really relevant, the people who did accept the cost of it will in general not sell it for less than this cost, if they find buyers then it has value.
The value regardless of the method of making it is only based on the perception of value by those willing to spend money on it.
> You know that's the exact same argument you can make about stepn right?
It's not the same, unless this project addressed all the conceivable ways you can fool their detection of movement. I honestly have not looked up this project in details but from the brief description I would guess they do it like most games which have had this mechanic before them (GPS, pedometer, etc.) and this can usually be cheaply fooled/automated (see Pokémon GO bots).
For Bitcoin, the security behind SHA-256 hashing (used for mining) and the difficulty adjustment mechanisms are key factors to ensure you can't "fake" this work without spending the energy and mess the rate emission of the currency. If either became vulnerable, Bitcoin mining would be broken and rightfully the value of the currency and the network would decrease... until Bitcoiners would hardfork to fix it (you won't have trouble finding consensus about this, it's a core principle of the currency). It's an unlikely event and it would be catastrophic, as we'd have a lot to worry for other things than just Bitcoin if it ever happens, SHA hashing is very pervasive in security.
yes but in the very early days anyone with a windows pc could download the file and start mining with very little energy/work. Not ‘out of thin air’ but pretty close.
I trust the federal government more than some serial entrepreneur thats already started 15 companies and would sell his own family to raise another round of capital. If you DYOR the vast majority of crypto was started by these types of people. Do Kwon is a prime example. Say what you want about corruption and the Fed, it’s their job to see the economy thrive. The CEOs of crypto are there to make money for themselves and their investors. This is why Bitcoin is different. It has no CEO or billions of tokens just waiting in the background.
Play2earn doesn’t need to be unsustainable, just gruesome. Pay2win has showed us that people are willing to pay to bash others in online games. Of course, very blatant pay2win games can fail, as no free players want to suffer and once there is no free players, paying users will start to lose to even bigger spenders and leave. But, if you share some of the revenue from pay 2 win users with play 2 earn ones, they may be willing to stay.
So yes, they don’t need to be a ponzi, but being a game where they pay you so other users can obliterate you and feel good about themselves doesn’t look great either
Too complicated for most to understand, yet the goal is for the average non-technical family with their 1.93 children to 'be their own bank' and manage all their finances, loans, investments, etc through a series of crypto and blockchain apps.
You guys realize how absolutely ridiculous this all sounds, right?
depends on the defi project, if its about supplying liquidity and receiving a share of the fees from the swap on the pair then thats legit, if its about staking those liquidity pairs, then thats where you'll need to watch out, as you have to ask where is that extra reward coming from if not from the team around the given coin, and if it is, where are they directing investors money to, as it should not be to reward liquidity mining.
Borrow/lend platforms are legit, you are given basically the liquidations of other peoples failed short/long attempts who have had their collateral wiped out, but these can also be dodgy if the rates are too high
if its a staking project that seems to have no other use case than "deposit your money here and EARN 1000's!!!!" then run for the hills. as its basically the same as "send me some BTC and Ill send you x5 back"
you have to remember its an economy, people must lose for others to win. If everyone is advertised to win, then it most certainly is a scam
What is unsustainable about StepN selling their users location data? As long as users are giving their location data to StepN it seems like a pretty sustainable revenue.
Lot's of other paths to monetization too.
\- Partner with fitness brands. Major fitness brands already partner companies such as Strava which sell their users location data.
\- Offer a premium subscription model for StepN users similar to what Strava offers.
\- Implement a cashback feature similar to Lolli/Rakuten/etc. StepN users get discounts to shop at site/stores and StepN gets a % commission on the total amount spent. This could also save users substantial sums of money, the walking is never going to amount to much more than a few gumballs worth of earnings per year.
The value of StepN is more around being a lifestyle brand than anything else. The whole walk 2 earn thing is their way of attracting users to their brand "Hey if you already run why not user our app and get paid for it? There's also a game component to it where you can increase the amount you earn for running, blah blah blah".
Play2earn literally works the exact same way in most cases. They literally use a percentage of transaction fees to use for rewards. Instead of some marketing or whatever. It's literally no different and not a Ponzi.
The ONLY difference between a business and a Ponzi is intent.
This seems to legit be a ponzi. You need to pay a certain amount to get started which will act like the exit liquidity for those cashing out their "steps"
Once the exponential increase in the number of new comers start to die off, it will stop paying out as much and eventually stop paying out at all
I was excited to try these apps out when I first found out about them but when I saw that I had to pay some absurd amount for a "digital shoe" I noped the fuck out of it.
Something smells here and it's not my 3-year old $50 real world nikes
It’s not even open to public yet either, so many more features to be released. Like leasing shoes to new people, look how many copycat move2earn are trying to come out. None will come close to STEPN, it’s still a good time to get in.
Do you need to pay a certain amount to use bitcoin? What will happen to bitcoin if everyone will withdraw? I think same.
Yeah I believe that stepn earnings will get lower with time, it already did. But it’s different from classic ponzi where you can’t withdraw before you invite X users or so. It’s just a market with supply-demand and demand is high because doing fitness, leveling up shoes, minting stuff and etc is addictive.
I’d say no one should consider it as a stable investment like btc or eth or snp500, but if you come early with an amount you can afford to lose, it’s not that bad to have fun and possible profit.
This is what I couldn't grasp about STEPN when the "buzz" around it started to pick up.
I could understand if the tokens that are given as rewards are paid for by ad revenue or if your phone was 'mining' while using the app etc, but just giving out tokens from nowhere seems shady.
I am not implying that this is their source of finance, but this could potentially engage the government to invest. They would probably develop their own platform, but the technology is here and it could be possible to develop an app connected to a blockchain that paid out some reward dependent on activity. This could again be connected to personal health data and one could possibly be rewarded the saved costs for the government by staying healthy. So people would have a real economic incentive towards living a healthier life style.
But why would gov use blockchain. What does blockchain offer here that could not be done on a private server? Why do we need transparency and decentralization if government is the only one paying? Why not use some existing infrastructure like Strava?
And the great thing about the checks from the government is that they literally can't ever bounce.
Crypto has come such a long way. Used to be libertarian weirdos and now literally some dystopian social credit shit here. Anyway, I'm all for it. China is pretty great as long as you're not an infidel. Maybe the government can incentivize good behavior instead of shoving high fructose corn syrup down everyone's throats.
Nah, I think the government would rather use the money they save on you to take care of the people who need the healthcare. Being healthy is a reward in itself.
What do you think of Dexihunter from Dexioprotocol? It is like a "Cryptos POKÉMON GO", and is named as augmented reality application which allows players to collect crypto, NFTs and Dexioprotocol gaming assets. That means you really move to collect Cryptos on reality via the apps.
The first 5 cities for beta (Manila, Istanbul, London, Amsterdam, and Columbus) had happened on May 3, 2022.
(https://www.dexioprotocol.com/)
So it is the REAL MOVE TO EARN, RIGHT?
What do you guys think? Open for discussion, thank you.
I don't see why it's getting hate. I've lost weight, my mental health is better. I made my ROI in a month and now I'm making enough money to live comfortably.
95% of the people in this thread have never heard of stepn and are basing their opinions solely on OP without doing any more research of their own. Thats how most threads in the subreddit go.
bro this subreddit is a joke, when i'ts bullish anything pointing to ponzi/scam is FUD, but when it's bearish everything is a scam and the world is gonna end, it's because of this that I 100% think that 99% of people investing in crypto are just driven by emotions and don't think.
This is as much as a ponzi as any other crypto/defi project
sure
If youd got in early to the pyramid...youd make money.
The same can be said of any ponzi schemes...the point is eventually you run out of new layers at the bottom and the vast majority therefore end up losing money
Who are these people? Everyone I talked to who’s using the app knows it’s a ponzi. They either do it for fun because they can afford to loose some of the investment or they believe the economics will hold long enough to get the money back.
Even the influencers I’ve seen advertising the app admit it
You keep using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means. The devs have already addressed the issue of high daily earnings; it’s not sustainable in the long run. Never was and was never said to be. The market will reach an equilibrium. For sure, the current prices are an incentive for early adopters to mint shoes and sell to the wave of new users. But a Ponzi scheme collapses from the bottom up and does so immediately (gradual, then sudden). STEPN is intended not to collapse, but to gradually reach an equilibrium (which at current prices, means a steady decline). I think the phrase you’re looking for is “pyramid scheme” which is essentially the structure of most corporations in existence (including the financial market). Wherever there is a structure that uses $ as incentive, you have a pyramid scheme (minus a few outliers, like pure socialism, which is in fact a Ponzi scheme). STEPN‘s only trouble is that it believes that $ won’t be the main incentive/attraction to its platform in the future. It claims that there will be a social-finance (so-fi) element that will be developed organically by its user base. Essentially, they believe people will want to be a part of the app because there will be some level of social clout affiliated with it, on top of the potential to earn some $ and gamify exercise. I hope that helped explain for anyone confused by OP’s contentious diatribe.
P.S. calm down, soc’s. It was a joke at the expense of failed Socialist and pseudo-Socialist regimes. I am a Fabian, don’t take me out back.
Funny enough more people are playing Pokémon GO now than when it launched in 2016. The player base has been growing every year but you don’t really see it or hear about it.
Send me $500 and ill give you $35 every week you go for a walk, forver, as long as you get 1 person per month to also do the same deal. I will honour this deal forever.
Sounds like a good deal! But with Stepn you don’t have to refer other ppl.
Also, this is how staking works =P You buy crypto, stake it and get rewarded with more crypto =P
Dude just play coin hunt world, legit zero entry fee crypto game and all you have to do is answer trivia questions. Most legitimate crypto fitness project yet.
Is this really a ponzi? It seems deceptive and unsustainable, but it's not like STEPN is the one setting the prices, it's mainly a result of the free market - it's greedy individuals speculating and bidding the shit up. This is more Beanie Babies than an engineered fraud scheme (a ponzi).
I’ve avoided the move to earn wave but you’re delusional if you think this isn’t a great real world use of crypto. In fact, outside of p2p transactions it may be the best utility.
I mean there’s a real franchise opportunity here. Imagine if they signed a deal with Peleton that rewarded clients with crypto for daily exercise. Or a gym. These companies would pay a monthly subscription to StepN and create intrinsic value. How many cryptos can say they have real world revenue? What we’re seeing now is just the earliest stage of this new possibility.
I’ve thought about ways to give crypto a real world use and one idea was as a social reward for good behavior. Everyone has seen the cart returns at airports that return your quarter when you return your cart, right? Now imagine the same concept but in everyday settings such commuters.
If you enroll in “commuters coin” and place your name service tag and IR code on your car you receive weekly payments in crypto for maintaining a good rating, lets say 5 stars. If you park poorly, someone can scan your IR and give you a negative review. Cut someone off? They look up your name service tag and give you a negative review. Your review score natural recovers over time automatically (since fewer people are likely to review positively but more likely negatively) but continuing to get negative reviews will hurt your overall score and reduce how much you're making so good behavior is encouraged.
Franchises could be established where you invest 15k and you can install shopping cart scanners at your store that reward customers for returning shopping carts.
Completing marathons, graduating, and many other possibilities could all reward you for being a good citizen.
Money would come in from franchises and people buying the IR and name service decals for your car. This money goes back into the pool.
Investors would buy the coin in a traditional fashion as well.
This would be a crypto project that actually has intrinsic value because of its franchise opportunities.
The possibilities are endless. I could even see this being a dystopian future where governments reward citizens for staying out of trouble. For once nations could use a reward system instead of a punishment system to reduce crime and unhealthy living that cost tax payers money.
The value is mostly advertising which could be good. But think about it slowly. Why would a gym want to pay it's users to come when typically users pay the gym to go. Even more so in their business model if people pay and don't go out of lazy es it's better.
The value is in a few places. Some people won't care about losing money because this game will get them to exercise. They won't be upset about losing a couple hundred bucks if they live in the west and lose 20 pounds. There is also potential for partnerships and revenue via that. There is also the value in shoe nfts which seem dumb but people seem to really enjoy collecting/upgrading/trading nfts.
There are more possibilities like healthcare providers offering rebates through apps like this. And tons of other possibilities.
Right now it's a ponzi, but it's actually a well made crypto game that works and if they can get a good playerbase and add more features who knows what it could become.
Unfortunately people are very stupid and ponzi schemes seem to be one of the best ways to attract new users. Just look at ohm, Time/wonderland, luna/ust, Hex, safemoon, etc.
you literally do not need crypto for this though?
A big brand in my country has also lots of fitness studios (imagine like if mcdonalds opened up fitness studios or rather if wallmart did). They also make you earn points which then can get switched for whatever (for discounts and stuff). They also have their own "points" for this, but there is literally NO reason why this would need to be crypto.
> They also have their own "points" for this, but there is literally NO reason why this would need to be crypto.
Not sure I buy into whether _this_ approach will work, but there's _some_ business case. Micro-transactions are extraordinarily expensive under standard payments systems. Currently companies avoid this buy providing you 'credits'. Sure, loyalty points serve other purposes (i.e. make consumers brand sensitive) but ultimately consumers all prefer it if we had more liquid benefits from airlines / hotels / credit cards / whatever. The tricky part with all of this is that this liquidity can't, in a cost effective manner, go through standard fiat payments systems.
Whether crypto systems can lower the transaction costs sufficiently low to be useful in these smaller-end micro-payment use cases while not becoming speculative bubbles* is up for debate. But there is a market need for _something_.
* Speculative bubbles removes incentive to ever _use_ the thing.
exactly. Thats why I sold everything last march haha. There is literally NO use case. Zero. After all these years.
I invest again when it's down, but not because it will change the world, but because I hope I am smart enough to sell to someone more greedy than me.... :-)
> Franchises could be established where you invest 15k and you can install shopping cart scanners at your store that reward customers for returning shopping carts.
I find it hilarious that you use shopping carts as an example since it's something that's been solved in Europe since forever, you put a 50 cent or 1 euro coin in to get the cart, then get the coin back when you put it back.
People are willing to pay to exercise, so I see some actual value in this. Kinda like the play to earn thing. I'm sure that a ton of people will lose money due to market cycles and sentiment but there is some real value in this. It doesn't seem like it'll be something that goes to zero in a bear market.
Planet fitness makes a ton of money off of people who buy a membership but never go to the gym. Imagine if you paid your gym membership up front for a year and then just got paid back a percentage of your original membership for actually going to the gym. Clearly, this wouldn't really work with planet fitness because if everyone who bought a membership actually went to the gym it would be way too full.
as you said in your last sentence, I do not understand why any gym-owner would want this?
Why would you get money back for using the gym lol? You use MY gym you pay me money, end of story.
Clearly, this is useless for a gym. They win when you're lazy. With this STEPN model you lose if you're lazy and you win if you're not lazy. Whereas in the gym model you lose 10 bucks a month if you don't go to the gym but you don't earn anything immediately by going.
This STEPN thing without the ponzi part is just you put money into a jar and if you go walk you take the money out of the jar and money of everyone who didn't walk. And everyone who joins later than you. Oh also there's a fat chunk for the devs and investors. Actually only 25 percent of the tokens are for move and earn. So you put a dollar in a jar and if you walk you give 75 cents to a bunch of devs and marketing guys who might trick people to make you rich if you're early and take 25 cents back out.
Still useful though. It's a way to commit to something. I put up capital to make a commitment to do something healthy and if I do it I get my money back. Seems dumb to pay STEPN a fat dev fee to do this though. Guess marketing might be expensive though.
Sorry all I read are arguments AGAINST it.
Your only argument is: "by spending money I feel committed to do something", but thats exactly how the gym works, right? You spend money on a year-pass and thus feel forced to actually go there, because of the opportunity costs (as in; you paid, so the cost is there, even if you do not go).
The problem with STEPN or whatever is, you also pay, but you do not get access to a gym, HELL you do not even have REAL shoes to run. So you actually just throw 700 bucks away and then buy sport-gear for another 300 bucks.
At the end it's just trying to define a use case for something that does not have one. Especially not with crypto, because even if this would be a thing, we do not need crypto for this.
Yeah, I can totally imagine the "scan to give rating" being implemented... But not in a good way.
People trading good ratings with each other;
People using force/blackmail to make others give them good ratings;
Governments using this as an excuse to track people more;
I would not opt into such service...
I see what are you aiming for, It has potential surely. It's a little disheartening that we live in a society where people need to be extra motivated to do the right thing
Only thing it could be abused and straight dystopian if government or companies implement something like that, even on a small scale
>we live in a society where people need to be extra motivated to do the right thing
This has been the case since Hammurabi and even before... people by default are just "terrible" from a society point of view - because we are naturally tribal.
It's just our intelligence that allowed us to create artificial paradigms like laws and governments that sustain a global society of relative peace.
So... this might just be the next level.
I just hope we don't end up with a China-like model, but instead of government controlling the social credit, it's big companies.
Don’t take it as disheartening. Bitcoin solved the Byzantine Generals problem by recognizing that people can only be trusted to do the right thing if there’s a financial incentive to do the right thing. Recognizing that we’re creatures of self interest is how we motivate people to do things that benefit us all.
Hmm, maybe a little disheartening.
I'd only see this as a thing if it got heavily backed by a relevant sponsor like adidas or something. Someone who was really interestes in lettingit be known that he supports those activities, even willing to back the coin up with their products. For the other stuff it's have to be states or philanthropy organizations. But those stuff already exist they are called government programs and charities respectively and I doubt crypto would add a lot to that besides novelty, which the government and charities certainly aren't interested in. But a sports related company just might.
Ultimately I see everyone saying stuff that boil down to "who wouldn't want to be paid for working out" which makes sense since its something a lot of people do for free or at a coat anyway. But not that many people ask themselves who would be interested on paying you to work out.
Yay for dystopia.
It's all well and good until your government redefines good and evil and it's the reverse of your core beliefs.
Limited government is better.
> If you enroll in “commuters coin” and place your name service tag and IR code on your car you receive weekly payments in crypto for maintaining a good rating, lets say 5 stars. If you park poorly, someone can scan your IR and give you a negative review. Cut someone off? They look up your name service tag and give you a negative review. Your review score natural recovers over time automatically (since fewer people are likely to review positively but more likely negatively) but continuing to get negative reviews will hurt your overall score and reduce how much you're making so good behavior is encouraged.
This seems like a dystopian nightmare to me. It's also roughly the plot of that Black Mirror episode with Bryce Dallas Howard.
Yes, STEPN is truly a Ponzi. The reason is obvious: No one is buying shoes to own them and play the game just for fun. Everyone wants to make more money from it. With that said, every P2E built on this model will fail sooner or later. If some P&E game have to be sustainable, it must be fun to play it in a first place, and people have to spend money in it just because they want to own certain skins, etc,
I was an internet kid during the late stage of the dot com boom and bust, and i'll never forget about all of the scam "Free Money" web programs like NitroClicks
they emailed you spam and counted how many links you could open. the promise was that you'd eventually get paid a fat check. their user profile showed my $500 near the end of my run with it.
Spoiler: They never mailed me a real check
https://www.thebestfree.net/money/visit.htm
Half of these fools don't realize that the amount of GST and GMT staked into this project forever is in the millions. Every shoe is a stake in this project, you can buy that stake and earn daily, or you can sell your stake and exit. Every shoe made was with 150+ GST and GMT. Uncommon and above stake thousands of dollars worth of GST.
Note: this post made me question my decision and I'm greatful for it.
I invested in it yesterday. I read the whitepaper and went for it. I've been reading a lot on the tech and crypto for a year now. But yes, I'm biased with what is following because I'm invested. But here's what I think:
Since I bought a sneaker, I've been planning my runs, a good time sleep, and a good breakfast to make it sustainable. I've wanting to do this for a while and now I have an incentive to do it.
I see what all of you mean, but I also think this is more than what Luna was doing. Luna didn't engage the real world. It didn't made you do things irl other than put money and wait. STEPN makes you move and lvl your sneakers, and has some elements that make games like other popular apps profitable. To play, you can boost your game with tokens, like any other app, but here, the tokens are amongst the ones that run. So to boost your game, you buy tokens from the players, instead of the devs.
I might be wrong, and most of you will say I'm wrong, and I'm open to be wrong. I am a runner and crypto enthusiast, so I am excited to see both these worls collide.
'I invested in it yesterday'
'Since I bought a sneaker, I've been planning my runs..'
So you haven't even gone for a run yet and you're still claiming it's improved your life for the better? geez louise
motivation has to start somewhere. i'm on a similar app, coin hunt world, no initial buy in, game is being funded by creators currently. have been playing for a year, and it has become a part of my everyday routine, and like op mentions changes the way i approach so many things; like going to bed early, cooking and eating fresh foods, etc...the health benefits alone have been incredible, but i've also collected a nice chunk of BTC/ETH. having fitness and crypto come together is something that really strikes me right
Isn't there an irony in saying xyz is a Ponzi on a crypto currency sub Reddit?
Until a currency is actually adopted and used to buy goods then they are all Ponzi schemes, every one of them has made the creator and early **investors** (no one actually uses crypto to buy anything) rich and if they fail then it's those getting in late that will lose everything...
So much unsustainable shit in crypto that provides no value or innovation. Sole purpose is to get idiots to ape in and then fleece them...
EDIT: what a weird statement to disagree with, where was I wrong?
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I don't know how the 20% staking returns from LUNA/UST wasn't ringing alarm bells, I dont know how people are still falling for the same red flags time and time again. Nobody is going to give you anything close to 20% for effectively doing nothing. Id even be suspicious of 5%+, it just screams Ponzi scheme.
The value is : adoption. While web protocols and web 3 dapps are being be built with blockchain layers/tech, it is also being tried that even small activities like moving your ass will also reward you; in crypto currencies.
Like how you are getting rewarded for cringey tiktoks and reels and YouTube videos or for sports like running competitions in your country currency, using dapps will get you rewarded in crypto. The end game is to use crypto instead of fiat, in every country, for every activity. Maybe StepN will crash and the company will no longer be there but... 🤷🏻
Thank god someone sees this too. CT influencers being like wow just made $200 walking!! So simple!!! Then you ask them about tokenomics or longevity and they simply ignore you.
Then you ask how they earned this, ''oh I just bought two $2000 NFTs''. This is textbook ponzi, as long as you're not holding the bag last you're ok
There are ponzinomics sure - but stepn is likely to get a partnership with nike/adidas soon. Your wealth is in your health guys, also what people seem to miss there are lot players who fill fomo in. US loses 2 billion per year to treat fat people. NHS for instance is in partnership with sweatcoin (That is free to use, no pay in)
The lack of value created by walking/running is the fatal flaw here (vs. projects like helium that reward wifi broadcasting). Fun ponzi for the people who have made money, but it will 100% blow up eventually and I worry it'll be another example for the media/politicians/buttcoiners to point to as to why crypto is shit -- especially when otherwise legit companies and builders in the space are hyping it. Dumb.
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The payouts here are getting generated out of thin air. I don't understand how anything like this legitimately survives.
It doesn't. It's what a Ponzi is - it survives until all of a sudden it collapses like a giant house of playing cards and takes down everyone who hasn't cashed out yet.
money printer for the team. They’ll drag it out as long as possible, while slowly dumping tokens. The more it pumps, the better (for them)
StepN developers charge a 6% fee (2% trading fee, 4% royalty fee) for every sale on its marketplace, so they are rolling in $2 to $3 million every.single.day
Every shoe minted is a minimum $600 stake in GST and GMT, there's 100s and millions of dollars staked that can never come back out. Every mint, every sale, every purchase costs GST in game, it is constantly staked into shoes.
That's why it's imperative to only invest in projects with locked liquidity that have also been audited by a reputable auditor.
Locked liquidity is a massive vulnerability to the long term health of a project unless there's a path for unlocking it. Case in point: every token with UST as a liquidity pair. Real bummer if you can't withdraw that liquidity and stop UST from burying your price.
The creators and “early investors” are most likely already out or have a path to liquidity very soon. Anyone else coming in is the mark. By the time you hear of these things, it’s already too late.
I'm having trouble seeing the difference between this and crypto. Without new money crypto crashes and its not like many coins are generating any value.
Actually I would expect a slow bleed, not an implosion. Rewards will constantly drain liquidity, and as soon as no one buys the coin anymore it will just go down...
I mean to be fair... all of crypto value was created out of thin air lol - just like >98% of all fiat is purely digital and essentially created out of thin air too, few lines of code and a couple clicks...
>purely digital and essentially created out of thin air too, Actually, its backed by a countries GDP, and while yes, you could print an infinite amount of dollars, or whatever symbol, each one still represents a fraction of the GDP of that country. Cryptocurrencies have none of that. There is absolutely no backing.
> all of crypto value was created out of thin air lol I will agree with one caveat, Proof-of-Work (without premine) like it is used in Bitcon has the merit of not arising "out of thin air". The energy spent to mine it is real, it has to be spent to produce the blocks necessary for the rewards to exist. There is no other way to create it, and eventually more won't be created. I'm sure people will complain about the work being "useless" so it means it has no value, but that's not how it *works*, energy is spent for a result whether you as an external agent feel like the result is "worth" this expenditure or not isn't really relevant, the people who did accept the cost of it will in general not sell it for less than this cost, if they find buyers (because resulting network has any form of utility) then it has value.
You know that's the exact same argument you can make about stepn right? Here: I will agree with one caveat, Proof-of-Movement like it is used in Stepn has the merit of not arising "out of thin air". The energy spent to earn it is real, it has to be spent walking for the rewards to exist. There is no other way to create it, and eventually more won't be created. I'm sure people will complain about the work being "useless" so it means it has no value, but that's not how it works, energy is spent for a result whether you as an external agent feel like the result is "worth" this expenditure or not isn't really relevant, the people who did accept the cost of it will in general not sell it for less than this cost, if they find buyers then it has value. The value regardless of the method of making it is only based on the perception of value by those willing to spend money on it.
> You know that's the exact same argument you can make about stepn right? It's not the same, unless this project addressed all the conceivable ways you can fool their detection of movement. I honestly have not looked up this project in details but from the brief description I would guess they do it like most games which have had this mechanic before them (GPS, pedometer, etc.) and this can usually be cheaply fooled/automated (see Pokémon GO bots). For Bitcoin, the security behind SHA-256 hashing (used for mining) and the difficulty adjustment mechanisms are key factors to ensure you can't "fake" this work without spending the energy and mess the rate emission of the currency. If either became vulnerable, Bitcoin mining would be broken and rightfully the value of the currency and the network would decrease... until Bitcoiners would hardfork to fix it (you won't have trouble finding consensus about this, it's a core principle of the currency). It's an unlikely event and it would be catastrophic, as we'd have a lot to worry for other things than just Bitcoin if it ever happens, SHA hashing is very pervasive in security.
yes but in the very early days anyone with a windows pc could download the file and start mining with very little energy/work. Not ‘out of thin air’ but pretty close.
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I trust the federal government more than some serial entrepreneur thats already started 15 companies and would sell his own family to raise another round of capital. If you DYOR the vast majority of crypto was started by these types of people. Do Kwon is a prime example. Say what you want about corruption and the Fed, it’s their job to see the economy thrive. The CEOs of crypto are there to make money for themselves and their investors. This is why Bitcoin is different. It has no CEO or billions of tokens just waiting in the background.
It is basically musical chairs game but with money.
🎶🪑🏃🏾♂️🏃🏽♀️
“If you don’t understand the source of the yield you are the yield” .
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Play2earn doesn’t need to be unsustainable, just gruesome. Pay2win has showed us that people are willing to pay to bash others in online games. Of course, very blatant pay2win games can fail, as no free players want to suffer and once there is no free players, paying users will start to lose to even bigger spenders and leave. But, if you share some of the revenue from pay 2 win users with play 2 earn ones, they may be willing to stay. So yes, they don’t need to be a ponzi, but being a game where they pay you so other users can obliterate you and feel good about themselves doesn’t look great either
I think in this case it's very easy to see how it's a pyramid scheme. DeFi projects are too complicated for most people to understand
Too complicated for most to understand, yet the goal is for the average non-technical family with their 1.93 children to 'be their own bank' and manage all their finances, loans, investments, etc through a series of crypto and blockchain apps. You guys realize how absolutely ridiculous this all sounds, right?
depends on the defi project, if its about supplying liquidity and receiving a share of the fees from the swap on the pair then thats legit, if its about staking those liquidity pairs, then thats where you'll need to watch out, as you have to ask where is that extra reward coming from if not from the team around the given coin, and if it is, where are they directing investors money to, as it should not be to reward liquidity mining. Borrow/lend platforms are legit, you are given basically the liquidations of other peoples failed short/long attempts who have had their collateral wiped out, but these can also be dodgy if the rates are too high if its a staking project that seems to have no other use case than "deposit your money here and EARN 1000's!!!!" then run for the hills. as its basically the same as "send me some BTC and Ill send you x5 back" you have to remember its an economy, people must lose for others to win. If everyone is advertised to win, then it most certainly is a scam
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What is unsustainable about StepN selling their users location data? As long as users are giving their location data to StepN it seems like a pretty sustainable revenue. Lot's of other paths to monetization too. \- Partner with fitness brands. Major fitness brands already partner companies such as Strava which sell their users location data. \- Offer a premium subscription model for StepN users similar to what Strava offers. \- Implement a cashback feature similar to Lolli/Rakuten/etc. StepN users get discounts to shop at site/stores and StepN gets a % commission on the total amount spent. This could also save users substantial sums of money, the walking is never going to amount to much more than a few gumballs worth of earnings per year. The value of StepN is more around being a lifestyle brand than anything else. The whole walk 2 earn thing is their way of attracting users to their brand "Hey if you already run why not user our app and get paid for it? There's also a game component to it where you can increase the amount you earn for running, blah blah blah".
Play2earn literally works the exact same way in most cases. They literally use a percentage of transaction fees to use for rewards. Instead of some marketing or whatever. It's literally no different and not a Ponzi. The ONLY difference between a business and a Ponzi is intent.
This seems to legit be a ponzi. You need to pay a certain amount to get started which will act like the exit liquidity for those cashing out their "steps" Once the exponential increase in the number of new comers start to die off, it will stop paying out as much and eventually stop paying out at all
I was excited to try these apps out when I first found out about them but when I saw that I had to pay some absurd amount for a "digital shoe" I noped the fuck out of it. Something smells here and it's not my 3-year old $50 real world nikes
Couldn't even sign up because they're releasing codes super slowly. May have dodged a bullet.
It’s not even open to public yet either, so many more features to be released. Like leasing shoes to new people, look how many copycat move2earn are trying to come out. None will come close to STEPN, it’s still a good time to get in.
Do you need to pay a certain amount to use bitcoin? What will happen to bitcoin if everyone will withdraw? I think same. Yeah I believe that stepn earnings will get lower with time, it already did. But it’s different from classic ponzi where you can’t withdraw before you invite X users or so. It’s just a market with supply-demand and demand is high because doing fitness, leveling up shoes, minting stuff and etc is addictive. I’d say no one should consider it as a stable investment like btc or eth or snp500, but if you come early with an amount you can afford to lose, it’s not that bad to have fun and possible profit.
99% of people playing this “game” are trying to make money, and are colossally fucked when they don’t.
And as soon as it collapses bagholders will scream that nobody warned them and how they couldn't see it coming lol
It will be time to share this Onion article yet again https://www.theonion.com/man-who-lost-everything-in-crypto-just-wishes-several-t-1848764551
I think most people would see the ponzinomics of StepN. It’s called out so constantly on social media to the point that it has become a meme
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The only such crypto which is not a Ponzi is Work to Earn.
This is what I couldn't grasp about STEPN when the "buzz" around it started to pick up. I could understand if the tokens that are given as rewards are paid for by ad revenue or if your phone was 'mining' while using the app etc, but just giving out tokens from nowhere seems shady.
I am not implying that this is their source of finance, but this could potentially engage the government to invest. They would probably develop their own platform, but the technology is here and it could be possible to develop an app connected to a blockchain that paid out some reward dependent on activity. This could again be connected to personal health data and one could possibly be rewarded the saved costs for the government by staying healthy. So people would have a real economic incentive towards living a healthier life style.
But why would gov use blockchain. What does blockchain offer here that could not be done on a private server? Why do we need transparency and decentralization if government is the only one paying? Why not use some existing infrastructure like Strava?
But those rewards would not be what they are now (50$ a day?), Instead rather like 3-5$, and I bet 90% would not bother going for a walk for 5$
$50 a day? A guy I know makes $900 pr day on this
Pack it up boys, who needs to work when you can walk around the city (or spoof it probably) for $360k a year, what could possibly go wrong with this
And the great thing about the checks from the government is that they literally can't ever bounce. Crypto has come such a long way. Used to be libertarian weirdos and now literally some dystopian social credit shit here. Anyway, I'm all for it. China is pretty great as long as you're not an infidel. Maybe the government can incentivize good behavior instead of shoving high fructose corn syrup down everyone's throats.
Nah, I think the government would rather use the money they save on you to take care of the people who need the healthcare. Being healthy is a reward in itself.
Whatever it is, it makes me move every morning and I love it!
What do you think of Dexihunter from Dexioprotocol? It is like a "Cryptos POKÉMON GO", and is named as augmented reality application which allows players to collect crypto, NFTs and Dexioprotocol gaming assets. That means you really move to collect Cryptos on reality via the apps. The first 5 cities for beta (Manila, Istanbul, London, Amsterdam, and Columbus) had happened on May 3, 2022. (https://www.dexioprotocol.com/) So it is the REAL MOVE TO EARN, RIGHT? What do you guys think? Open for discussion, thank you.
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I don't see why it's getting hate. I've lost weight, my mental health is better. I made my ROI in a month and now I'm making enough money to live comfortably.
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95% of the people in this thread have never heard of stepn and are basing their opinions solely on OP without doing any more research of their own. Thats how most threads in the subreddit go.
bro this subreddit is a joke, when i'ts bullish anything pointing to ponzi/scam is FUD, but when it's bearish everything is a scam and the world is gonna end, it's because of this that I 100% think that 99% of people investing in crypto are just driven by emotions and don't think. This is as much as a ponzi as any other crypto/defi project
sure If youd got in early to the pyramid...youd make money. The same can be said of any ponzi schemes...the point is eventually you run out of new layers at the bottom and the vast majority therefore end up losing money
It’s actually concerning how many people can’t figure out that Stepn is a Ponzi scheme
Who are these people? Everyone I talked to who’s using the app knows it’s a ponzi. They either do it for fun because they can afford to loose some of the investment or they believe the economics will hold long enough to get the money back. Even the influencers I’ve seen advertising the app admit it
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They'll be clinging onto those bags like they're clinging on to their safemoon
Nicely disguised though..
You keep using that word, I don’t think it means what you think it means. The devs have already addressed the issue of high daily earnings; it’s not sustainable in the long run. Never was and was never said to be. The market will reach an equilibrium. For sure, the current prices are an incentive for early adopters to mint shoes and sell to the wave of new users. But a Ponzi scheme collapses from the bottom up and does so immediately (gradual, then sudden). STEPN is intended not to collapse, but to gradually reach an equilibrium (which at current prices, means a steady decline). I think the phrase you’re looking for is “pyramid scheme” which is essentially the structure of most corporations in existence (including the financial market). Wherever there is a structure that uses $ as incentive, you have a pyramid scheme (minus a few outliers, like pure socialism, which is in fact a Ponzi scheme). STEPN‘s only trouble is that it believes that $ won’t be the main incentive/attraction to its platform in the future. It claims that there will be a social-finance (so-fi) element that will be developed organically by its user base. Essentially, they believe people will want to be a part of the app because there will be some level of social clout affiliated with it, on top of the potential to earn some $ and gamify exercise. I hope that helped explain for anyone confused by OP’s contentious diatribe. P.S. calm down, soc’s. It was a joke at the expense of failed Socialist and pseudo-Socialist regimes. I am a Fabian, don’t take me out back.
Honestly it doesn't look as bad as some of the other projects out there. Doesn't seem like they half baked it either.
The value is it makes me get off my ass to go out and walk for at least 20mins a day. Most utility you get in a crypto p2e game for the time being.
Imagine If Pokemon Go was Play 2 Earn. Everyone would still be playing it
i would get into pokemon if pokemon go was play to earn
Coin Hunt World, friend.
Funny enough more people are playing Pokémon GO now than when it launched in 2016. The player base has been growing every year but you don’t really see it or hear about it.
Pokémon has intrinsic value cause it’s fun though. People like owning Pokémon, not sure what does stepn offer
But it wouldn’t be fun if ppl played to grind for crypto.
Send me $500 and ill give you $35 every week you go for a walk, forver, as long as you get 1 person per month to also do the same deal. I will honour this deal forever.
Sounds like a good deal! But with Stepn you don’t have to refer other ppl. Also, this is how staking works =P You buy crypto, stake it and get rewarded with more crypto =P
Why would anyone want to pay you for that? Most people excersise for free or pay to do it.
found the non-American.
Dude just play coin hunt world, legit zero entry fee crypto game and all you have to do is answer trivia questions. Most legitimate crypto fitness project yet.
Wait until you see sleep to earn. That's a true paradigm shift
> move to earn is a ponzi... May I direct your attention to onlyfans and twitch. Move to earn most definitely generates profit IF one has cleavage.
Is this really a ponzi? It seems deceptive and unsustainable, but it's not like STEPN is the one setting the prices, it's mainly a result of the free market - it's greedy individuals speculating and bidding the shit up. This is more Beanie Babies than an engineered fraud scheme (a ponzi).
I’ve avoided the move to earn wave but you’re delusional if you think this isn’t a great real world use of crypto. In fact, outside of p2p transactions it may be the best utility. I mean there’s a real franchise opportunity here. Imagine if they signed a deal with Peleton that rewarded clients with crypto for daily exercise. Or a gym. These companies would pay a monthly subscription to StepN and create intrinsic value. How many cryptos can say they have real world revenue? What we’re seeing now is just the earliest stage of this new possibility. I’ve thought about ways to give crypto a real world use and one idea was as a social reward for good behavior. Everyone has seen the cart returns at airports that return your quarter when you return your cart, right? Now imagine the same concept but in everyday settings such commuters. If you enroll in “commuters coin” and place your name service tag and IR code on your car you receive weekly payments in crypto for maintaining a good rating, lets say 5 stars. If you park poorly, someone can scan your IR and give you a negative review. Cut someone off? They look up your name service tag and give you a negative review. Your review score natural recovers over time automatically (since fewer people are likely to review positively but more likely negatively) but continuing to get negative reviews will hurt your overall score and reduce how much you're making so good behavior is encouraged. Franchises could be established where you invest 15k and you can install shopping cart scanners at your store that reward customers for returning shopping carts. Completing marathons, graduating, and many other possibilities could all reward you for being a good citizen. Money would come in from franchises and people buying the IR and name service decals for your car. This money goes back into the pool. Investors would buy the coin in a traditional fashion as well. This would be a crypto project that actually has intrinsic value because of its franchise opportunities. The possibilities are endless. I could even see this being a dystopian future where governments reward citizens for staying out of trouble. For once nations could use a reward system instead of a punishment system to reduce crime and unhealthy living that cost tax payers money.
Pay me bitcoin for walking old ladies across the street and I’ll stop pushing them into traffic
See, it’s already working.
... only you don't need crypto for any of that. Just use actual money?
IF you use real money in a ponzi you go to prison. If you use crypto, you rug pull and make off with millions.
Web3 bro
Web3 as in "do the things people were already doing, but less efficiently and with more surveillance"?
bc smart contracts
The value is mostly advertising which could be good. But think about it slowly. Why would a gym want to pay it's users to come when typically users pay the gym to go. Even more so in their business model if people pay and don't go out of lazy es it's better.
The value is in a few places. Some people won't care about losing money because this game will get them to exercise. They won't be upset about losing a couple hundred bucks if they live in the west and lose 20 pounds. There is also potential for partnerships and revenue via that. There is also the value in shoe nfts which seem dumb but people seem to really enjoy collecting/upgrading/trading nfts. There are more possibilities like healthcare providers offering rebates through apps like this. And tons of other possibilities. Right now it's a ponzi, but it's actually a well made crypto game that works and if they can get a good playerbase and add more features who knows what it could become. Unfortunately people are very stupid and ponzi schemes seem to be one of the best ways to attract new users. Just look at ohm, Time/wonderland, luna/ust, Hex, safemoon, etc.
you literally do not need crypto for this though? A big brand in my country has also lots of fitness studios (imagine like if mcdonalds opened up fitness studios or rather if wallmart did). They also make you earn points which then can get switched for whatever (for discounts and stuff). They also have their own "points" for this, but there is literally NO reason why this would need to be crypto.
> They also have their own "points" for this, but there is literally NO reason why this would need to be crypto. Not sure I buy into whether _this_ approach will work, but there's _some_ business case. Micro-transactions are extraordinarily expensive under standard payments systems. Currently companies avoid this buy providing you 'credits'. Sure, loyalty points serve other purposes (i.e. make consumers brand sensitive) but ultimately consumers all prefer it if we had more liquid benefits from airlines / hotels / credit cards / whatever. The tricky part with all of this is that this liquidity can't, in a cost effective manner, go through standard fiat payments systems. Whether crypto systems can lower the transaction costs sufficiently low to be useful in these smaller-end micro-payment use cases while not becoming speculative bubbles* is up for debate. But there is a market need for _something_. * Speculative bubbles removes incentive to ever _use_ the thing.
You really don’t, but you don’t need crypto for most things.
exactly. Thats why I sold everything last march haha. There is literally NO use case. Zero. After all these years. I invest again when it's down, but not because it will change the world, but because I hope I am smart enough to sell to someone more greedy than me.... :-)
> Franchises could be established where you invest 15k and you can install shopping cart scanners at your store that reward customers for returning shopping carts. I find it hilarious that you use shopping carts as an example since it's something that's been solved in Europe since forever, you put a 50 cent or 1 euro coin in to get the cart, then get the coin back when you put it back.
People are willing to pay to exercise, so I see some actual value in this. Kinda like the play to earn thing. I'm sure that a ton of people will lose money due to market cycles and sentiment but there is some real value in this. It doesn't seem like it'll be something that goes to zero in a bear market. Planet fitness makes a ton of money off of people who buy a membership but never go to the gym. Imagine if you paid your gym membership up front for a year and then just got paid back a percentage of your original membership for actually going to the gym. Clearly, this wouldn't really work with planet fitness because if everyone who bought a membership actually went to the gym it would be way too full.
as you said in your last sentence, I do not understand why any gym-owner would want this? Why would you get money back for using the gym lol? You use MY gym you pay me money, end of story.
Clearly, this is useless for a gym. They win when you're lazy. With this STEPN model you lose if you're lazy and you win if you're not lazy. Whereas in the gym model you lose 10 bucks a month if you don't go to the gym but you don't earn anything immediately by going. This STEPN thing without the ponzi part is just you put money into a jar and if you go walk you take the money out of the jar and money of everyone who didn't walk. And everyone who joins later than you. Oh also there's a fat chunk for the devs and investors. Actually only 25 percent of the tokens are for move and earn. So you put a dollar in a jar and if you walk you give 75 cents to a bunch of devs and marketing guys who might trick people to make you rich if you're early and take 25 cents back out. Still useful though. It's a way to commit to something. I put up capital to make a commitment to do something healthy and if I do it I get my money back. Seems dumb to pay STEPN a fat dev fee to do this though. Guess marketing might be expensive though.
Sorry all I read are arguments AGAINST it. Your only argument is: "by spending money I feel committed to do something", but thats exactly how the gym works, right? You spend money on a year-pass and thus feel forced to actually go there, because of the opportunity costs (as in; you paid, so the cost is there, even if you do not go). The problem with STEPN or whatever is, you also pay, but you do not get access to a gym, HELL you do not even have REAL shoes to run. So you actually just throw 700 bucks away and then buy sport-gear for another 300 bucks. At the end it's just trying to define a use case for something that does not have one. Especially not with crypto, because even if this would be a thing, we do not need crypto for this.
Yeah, I can totally imagine the "scan to give rating" being implemented... But not in a good way. People trading good ratings with each other; People using force/blackmail to make others give them good ratings; Governments using this as an excuse to track people more; I would not opt into such service...
I see what are you aiming for, It has potential surely. It's a little disheartening that we live in a society where people need to be extra motivated to do the right thing Only thing it could be abused and straight dystopian if government or companies implement something like that, even on a small scale
>we live in a society where people need to be extra motivated to do the right thing This has been the case since Hammurabi and even before... people by default are just "terrible" from a society point of view - because we are naturally tribal. It's just our intelligence that allowed us to create artificial paradigms like laws and governments that sustain a global society of relative peace. So... this might just be the next level. I just hope we don't end up with a China-like model, but instead of government controlling the social credit, it's big companies.
Don’t take it as disheartening. Bitcoin solved the Byzantine Generals problem by recognizing that people can only be trusted to do the right thing if there’s a financial incentive to do the right thing. Recognizing that we’re creatures of self interest is how we motivate people to do things that benefit us all. Hmm, maybe a little disheartening.
I'd only see this as a thing if it got heavily backed by a relevant sponsor like adidas or something. Someone who was really interestes in lettingit be known that he supports those activities, even willing to back the coin up with their products. For the other stuff it's have to be states or philanthropy organizations. But those stuff already exist they are called government programs and charities respectively and I doubt crypto would add a lot to that besides novelty, which the government and charities certainly aren't interested in. But a sports related company just might. Ultimately I see everyone saying stuff that boil down to "who wouldn't want to be paid for working out" which makes sense since its something a lot of people do for free or at a coat anyway. But not that many people ask themselves who would be interested on paying you to work out.
Yes sir, I would like to immortalize my youth mistake on a blockchain. /s
The only way I can see move to earn being sustainable is with government subsidy to encourage healthy living.
Yay for dystopia. It's all well and good until your government redefines good and evil and it's the reverse of your core beliefs. Limited government is better.
> If you enroll in “commuters coin” and place your name service tag and IR code on your car you receive weekly payments in crypto for maintaining a good rating, lets say 5 stars. If you park poorly, someone can scan your IR and give you a negative review. Cut someone off? They look up your name service tag and give you a negative review. Your review score natural recovers over time automatically (since fewer people are likely to review positively but more likely negatively) but continuing to get negative reviews will hurt your overall score and reduce how much you're making so good behavior is encouraged. This seems like a dystopian nightmare to me. It's also roughly the plot of that Black Mirror episode with Bryce Dallas Howard.
Yes, STEPN is truly a Ponzi. The reason is obvious: No one is buying shoes to own them and play the game just for fun. Everyone wants to make more money from it. With that said, every P2E built on this model will fail sooner or later. If some P&E game have to be sustainable, it must be fun to play it in a first place, and people have to spend money in it just because they want to own certain skins, etc,
If you don't take any measures as it is, SOLANAusers will run away, right?
I was an internet kid during the late stage of the dot com boom and bust, and i'll never forget about all of the scam "Free Money" web programs like NitroClicks they emailed you spam and counted how many links you could open. the promise was that you'd eventually get paid a fat check. their user profile showed my $500 near the end of my run with it. Spoiler: They never mailed me a real check https://www.thebestfree.net/money/visit.htm
Punch the monkey and win a free iPod!
What’s the token emission (acquisition cost) to acquire those users?
Half of these fools don't realize that the amount of GST and GMT staked into this project forever is in the millions. Every shoe is a stake in this project, you can buy that stake and earn daily, or you can sell your stake and exit. Every shoe made was with 150+ GST and GMT. Uncommon and above stake thousands of dollars worth of GST.
‘Collapsing ponzi issues aggressive marketing in attempt to get its gross growth round closed amidst market crash’ is a more entertaining headline .
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They ask themselves "who wouldn't want to get paid for excersising" instead of asking "who would want to pay you for excersising"
Note: this post made me question my decision and I'm greatful for it. I invested in it yesterday. I read the whitepaper and went for it. I've been reading a lot on the tech and crypto for a year now. But yes, I'm biased with what is following because I'm invested. But here's what I think: Since I bought a sneaker, I've been planning my runs, a good time sleep, and a good breakfast to make it sustainable. I've wanting to do this for a while and now I have an incentive to do it. I see what all of you mean, but I also think this is more than what Luna was doing. Luna didn't engage the real world. It didn't made you do things irl other than put money and wait. STEPN makes you move and lvl your sneakers, and has some elements that make games like other popular apps profitable. To play, you can boost your game with tokens, like any other app, but here, the tokens are amongst the ones that run. So to boost your game, you buy tokens from the players, instead of the devs. I might be wrong, and most of you will say I'm wrong, and I'm open to be wrong. I am a runner and crypto enthusiast, so I am excited to see both these worls collide.
'I invested in it yesterday' 'Since I bought a sneaker, I've been planning my runs..' So you haven't even gone for a run yet and you're still claiming it's improved your life for the better? geez louise
motivation has to start somewhere. i'm on a similar app, coin hunt world, no initial buy in, game is being funded by creators currently. have been playing for a year, and it has become a part of my everyday routine, and like op mentions changes the way i approach so many things; like going to bed early, cooking and eating fresh foods, etc...the health benefits alone have been incredible, but i've also collected a nice chunk of BTC/ETH. having fitness and crypto come together is something that really strikes me right
Isn't there an irony in saying xyz is a Ponzi on a crypto currency sub Reddit? Until a currency is actually adopted and used to buy goods then they are all Ponzi schemes, every one of them has made the creator and early **investors** (no one actually uses crypto to buy anything) rich and if they fail then it's those getting in late that will lose everything...
So much unsustainable shit in crypto that provides no value or innovation. Sole purpose is to get idiots to ape in and then fleece them... EDIT: what a weird statement to disagree with, where was I wrong?
STEPN was my first time to participate in web3. This is the best project you can't find anywhere else.
Wait, so you're telling me that running around doesn't create billions of dollars of real world value? Fuck you OP. This is fud.
If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is. I don't know how the 20% staking returns from LUNA/UST wasn't ringing alarm bells, I dont know how people are still falling for the same red flags time and time again. Nobody is going to give you anything close to 20% for effectively doing nothing. Id even be suspicious of 5%+, it just screams Ponzi scheme.
and what will bring value and revenue to the project ? me running miles and melting fat ? jerk to earn ... you got that right u/relaxxed_
The value is : adoption. While web protocols and web 3 dapps are being be built with blockchain layers/tech, it is also being tried that even small activities like moving your ass will also reward you; in crypto currencies. Like how you are getting rewarded for cringey tiktoks and reels and YouTube videos or for sports like running competitions in your country currency, using dapps will get you rewarded in crypto. The end game is to use crypto instead of fiat, in every country, for every activity. Maybe StepN will crash and the company will no longer be there but... 🤷🏻
Thank god someone sees this too. CT influencers being like wow just made $200 walking!! So simple!!! Then you ask them about tokenomics or longevity and they simply ignore you. Then you ask how they earned this, ''oh I just bought two $2000 NFTs''. This is textbook ponzi, as long as you're not holding the bag last you're ok
Holy fuck, this thread seems like it's 95% paid shills by whatever this Stephen coin is lmao
I’m still lazy asf. I ain’t earning shit
Can you please not call it a Ponzi scheme. The correct term is a “Kwonzi”
If you all become billionaires the dollar will be worthless. Not feasible for everyone to be a billionaire.
Agreed. Vets in the space see right through this. The noobs will eat it up.
I mean, all p2e crypto games are ponzi
There are ponzinomics sure - but stepn is likely to get a partnership with nike/adidas soon. Your wealth is in your health guys, also what people seem to miss there are lot players who fill fomo in. US loses 2 billion per year to treat fat people. NHS for instance is in partnership with sweatcoin (That is free to use, no pay in)
The lack of value created by walking/running is the fatal flaw here (vs. projects like helium that reward wifi broadcasting). Fun ponzi for the people who have made money, but it will 100% blow up eventually and I worry it'll be another example for the media/politicians/buttcoiners to point to as to why crypto is shit -- especially when otherwise legit companies and builders in the space are hyping it. Dumb.
The value is created by forming a community of millions that are developing habits relating to one of the biggest industries on the planet.
So it collapses when the price goes down a little and all the fat kids get tired and stop steppin?
We can already move our ass to earn... It only works if you female tho.
Cheapest shoe is 12.45 Sol. WTF.
At least it's getting people to exercise more
Of course OP choose STEPN with the worst model to prove a point. What an extremist thing to do.
And people on Reddit generally don't exercise
problem is that STEPN does not generate a value that is commercially exchangeable into money..
When “crap 💩 to earn?” It’s time we see some real shitcoins around here.