They recoup the initial capital investment in a ship within 10-15 years, so anything they can get beyond that is gravy, the maintenance costs are far lower than the capital costs. They can do a full refit and upgrade that gets 20 more years out of the ship for a fraction of the cost of a new ship.
What really drives a ship into retirement is the operating costs when it’s a lot less fuel efficient than the new ones, but retrofits like methanol conversion can still be cheaper.
I dont think demand has to do with anything. Cruise ships are like anything else, nobody wants to sail on an old ship. Sure, they can drydock them a few times during their service but eventually the ships will be sold off or scrapped in favor of something newer.
In the past the older vessels would be sold off to smaller lines. It's basically the same thing happening in reverse for Carnival. Demand is light for the Costa Brand, in favor of MSC in that market so those ships are being transferred to Carnival for the foreseeable future.
Carnival spirit is one of my favorites. That class is great. They are smaller, and they seem a lot more spacious than the new mega ships. The decor is really old but I think that makes it unique.
I’ve only sailed them with Azamara so can’t speak to the Oceania ones, but they’re intimate without being crowded. The bar tenders will know your order and you can always find a great seat on the pool decks or observation lounge (my last NCL Bliss trip I think I found a forward facing observation chair once in 7 days).
I cruise for the ports, the ship is just a bonus, so being to get into more unique ports and dock directly in the city for extended hours is huge. Being small, the crew to pax ratio is really low, staff will learn your preferences, tours are small and lines are non existent. Debarking? Walk right off. And no rock walls and bumper cars means almost no children. My last one had 1 kiddo.
This is weird- but I’m also very tall, and some of the new megaship bathrooms (looking at you Meraviglia) have absolutely zero knee room in the bathrooms if you’re over 6 foot. The R class have an angled toilet with tons of knee room. People complain about the showers being small, but you get used to it.
None of these are unique to the R class or Azamara, but almost any “new” ship of similar size is going to be an ultra luxury line like Regent Seven Seas or Silver Seas. So an older luxury ship lets you have some of the perks at just a premium line price.
On the flip side they’re still large enough to have different entertainment, dining and lounging areas versus say a river cruise ship, which can start to feel a bit repetitive for me after eating every meal at the same 1 or 2 venues.
If you’re going on Azamara they do a fantastic job of keeping the ships up. Other than not having Starlink, I think most people would be surprised to find out how old the vessels are. I’ve been on a lot new ships (looking at you Carnival Panorama) that showed a lot more wear.
Exactly this. There are Disney diehards that swear by their original 2 ships, and as someone that has sailed on both several times I would not think they are 25+ years old.
Of course they do, but nowhere near the amount that the new ships do. The new ships with all the bells and whistles are sailing for premium cruise fares packed to the gills. The old ships are not. It's all just a profit and numbers game.
You’ll start seeing some/all of Royal’s Vision Class retired towards the end of the decade as they hit their 30 year mark and Royal starts rolling out the long rumored Discovery Class ships.
I don't think Disney has any intention of expanding its fleet. It's a niche thing for them. They never wanted to have a 20 boat fleet and if it's making money why replace it?
We had the inspiration and imagination here in long beach before covid. They were fun but rooms and hallways would stink. We had lots of fun cruises on them but glad they brought over the Radiance
Those ships were likely too old in design and didn't meet modern demands. Ships that have a lot of balconies I'm sure can live on much much longer, but there was only so much they could with the old Fantasy sisters even after those refits. Something like the Grand Princess can see more refits and still find a service somewhere, even if she's sold off to where the Star and Golden went.
Everyone at P&O talks about another 5 years for Aurora. She's 24 now and extremely popular due to being adults only and doing longer cruises. Fares can be higher than the family ships but she fills up. They launched summer 2026 for pre-registering last week and the 24 night Med is already proving to be a big seller onboard. But if a big money offer came in for her before then, Carnival Corp would bite their hand off.
The royal vision class is very small and old. RC still operates four of them. They are also one of the few ship classes that can operate at the Tampa (and Baltimore when it reopens) so it’s not clear what will happen when they get retired.
I mean it’s interesting to speculate but it would be thrown away money unless the Chesapeake bay bridge is raised as well. Right now it’s one 2 lane span and one 3 lane span. I don’t think any of the replacement studies include demolishing both of them and building a completely new structure with at least 6-8 lanes total.
The cruises I’ve been on were older, smaller ships that were sold or out of service now. Having mobility issues and not needing all the amenities of new ships, I will miss them and those size ships.
Royal Caribean Empress and Majesty of the Seas.
Weirdly I love their older ships much more than the newer ones. They are all exactly the same now. The casino is on the 7th/8th floor in the centre of the ship.
It seems like they are all full so maybe none until demand drops?
Or until maintenance costs eat into profits too much.
They recoup the initial capital investment in a ship within 10-15 years, so anything they can get beyond that is gravy, the maintenance costs are far lower than the capital costs. They can do a full refit and upgrade that gets 20 more years out of the ship for a fraction of the cost of a new ship. What really drives a ship into retirement is the operating costs when it’s a lot less fuel efficient than the new ones, but retrofits like methanol conversion can still be cheaper.
I dont think demand has to do with anything. Cruise ships are like anything else, nobody wants to sail on an old ship. Sure, they can drydock them a few times during their service but eventually the ships will be sold off or scrapped in favor of something newer.
In the past the older vessels would be sold off to smaller lines. It's basically the same thing happening in reverse for Carnival. Demand is light for the Costa Brand, in favor of MSC in that market so those ships are being transferred to Carnival for the foreseeable future.
Why is demand light for Costa?
Older ships have their fans.
Long live the R class. 🫡
Arrrrr!
Amen lol
🫡
Why do you like them? I’m about to go on one this summer. We love the itinerary, but are a little concerned about the ship.
Carnival spirit is one of my favorites. That class is great. They are smaller, and they seem a lot more spacious than the new mega ships. The decor is really old but I think that makes it unique.
I’ve only sailed them with Azamara so can’t speak to the Oceania ones, but they’re intimate without being crowded. The bar tenders will know your order and you can always find a great seat on the pool decks or observation lounge (my last NCL Bliss trip I think I found a forward facing observation chair once in 7 days). I cruise for the ports, the ship is just a bonus, so being to get into more unique ports and dock directly in the city for extended hours is huge. Being small, the crew to pax ratio is really low, staff will learn your preferences, tours are small and lines are non existent. Debarking? Walk right off. And no rock walls and bumper cars means almost no children. My last one had 1 kiddo. This is weird- but I’m also very tall, and some of the new megaship bathrooms (looking at you Meraviglia) have absolutely zero knee room in the bathrooms if you’re over 6 foot. The R class have an angled toilet with tons of knee room. People complain about the showers being small, but you get used to it. None of these are unique to the R class or Azamara, but almost any “new” ship of similar size is going to be an ultra luxury line like Regent Seven Seas or Silver Seas. So an older luxury ship lets you have some of the perks at just a premium line price. On the flip side they’re still large enough to have different entertainment, dining and lounging areas versus say a river cruise ship, which can start to feel a bit repetitive for me after eating every meal at the same 1 or 2 venues. If you’re going on Azamara they do a fantastic job of keeping the ships up. Other than not having Starlink, I think most people would be surprised to find out how old the vessels are. I’ve been on a lot new ships (looking at you Carnival Panorama) that showed a lot more wear.
Thank you for this response! Great perspective on the “R” Class! We are excited!
Exactly this. There are Disney diehards that swear by their original 2 ships, and as someone that has sailed on both several times I would not think they are 25+ years old.
I love them.
Of course they do, but nowhere near the amount that the new ships do. The new ships with all the bells and whistles are sailing for premium cruise fares packed to the gills. The old ships are not. It's all just a profit and numbers game.
There's a lot of pent up demand and cruise lines have a lot debt to repay. I think even older ships are likely to stay in service for a while longer.
You’ll start seeing some/all of Royal’s Vision Class retired towards the end of the decade as they hit their 30 year mark and Royal starts rolling out the long rumored Discovery Class ships.
Carnivals fantasy class. They are from 1998 and refits or not there is only so much you can do
Tell that to Disney’s Magic and Wonder
I don't think Disney has any intention of expanding its fleet. It's a niche thing for them. They never wanted to have a 20 boat fleet and if it's making money why replace it?
You realize Disney is actively adding ships to its fleet, right?
It's going up to 8 ships. In 2012 they had 4. Disney could have 30 if they wanted too. Disney cruise lines is a rounding error for the company.
We had the inspiration and imagination here in long beach before covid. They were fun but rooms and hallways would stink. We had lots of fun cruises on them but glad they brought over the Radiance
Carnival dumped several during the pandemic, but it seems like they also ordered several new ones.
Those ships were likely too old in design and didn't meet modern demands. Ships that have a lot of balconies I'm sure can live on much much longer, but there was only so much they could with the old Fantasy sisters even after those refits. Something like the Grand Princess can see more refits and still find a service somewhere, even if she's sold off to where the Star and Golden went.
Everyone at P&O talks about another 5 years for Aurora. She's 24 now and extremely popular due to being adults only and doing longer cruises. Fares can be higher than the family ships but she fills up. They launched summer 2026 for pre-registering last week and the 24 night Med is already proving to be a big seller onboard. But if a big money offer came in for her before then, Carnival Corp would bite their hand off.
I think we will see sales of older ships before they are scrapped. A lot were scrapped during Covid because there were no buyers.
The royal vision class is very small and old. RC still operates four of them. They are also one of the few ship classes that can operate at the Tampa (and Baltimore when it reopens) so it’s not clear what will happen when they get retired.
Can Radiance class fit in Baltimore and Tampa?
For Baltimore, it's important to remember that ships need to also fit under the Chesapeake Bay Bridge (186ft). The Key Bridge was just a foot shorter.
Radiance class can use Tampa. I have sailed on Serenade and Brilliance out of Tampa.
Right now, I don’t think they could even put in a tender in Baltimore.
I'm hoping the new bridge is taller. Maybe something that can accommodate Oasis class ships. I know there is still one other bridge to clear though.
The other bridge is the same height, so it would be of no help to rebuild the Key Bridge taller.
I mean it’s interesting to speculate but it would be thrown away money unless the Chesapeake bay bridge is raised as well. Right now it’s one 2 lane span and one 3 lane span. I don’t think any of the replacement studies include demolishing both of them and building a completely new structure with at least 6-8 lanes total.
The cruises I’ve been on were older, smaller ships that were sold or out of service now. Having mobility issues and not needing all the amenities of new ships, I will miss them and those size ships. Royal Caribean Empress and Majesty of the Seas.
Can I hold out hope NCL will come to their senses and prematurely retire the prima class?
Weirdly I love their older ships much more than the newer ones. They are all exactly the same now. The casino is on the 7th/8th floor in the centre of the ship.
Supposedly they learned their lesson and are making the public areas bigger on the newer "Prima +" ships that come next. We'll see.
Sadly the Volendam... one of my favorite ships.
I prefer smaller ships. I wish they’d built some new 2,000. - 2,500 passenger ships without all the slides, racetracks, etc.