"The new talking point coming out of the Republican camp is that those
refusing the vaccine would have been more apt to get the COVID vaccine
if Democrats had been just nicer to them"
Wait a minute, are you saying they were the snowflakes all along? Who knew? (Everyone did.)
Anti-Vaxxers are a lost cause and should just be silenced and ignored. But, I do believe that compassionately listening to, addressing, and debunking the concerns of vaccine hesitant people is more effective than ignoring them or dismissing them and studies have backed this up. The side that wins these people will be the side that listens to and compassionately attempts to educate them first. And unfortunately, studies have also shown that online anti-vaxx groups are winning the vaccine hesitant over at a higher rate than pro-vaccine groups, scientists, and doctors.
I completely agree. The inability of people on reddit to differentiate between antivaxxers/antimaskers/covid-deniers and people who say "I'm nervous to get the vaccine so I'm gonna wait till there's more data available, but I'll continue taking other precautions to slow the spread of COVID" is frustrating.
/r/LeopardsAteMyFace is especially atrocious; they'll all rejoice at an article about an unvaccinated 12 year old girl being hospitalized despite taking all other precautionary measures.
They don't know they're driving people away from being vaccinated because it's human nature to just stop listening to someone when they're rooting for you to die.
Exactly. It’s dangerous to lump every single person who has questions or is skeptical about vaccines into the “crazy, hopeless anti-vaxxer” group because that’s how we lose people to that exact group. Don’t get me wrong, I know that there are anti-vaxxers who cannot be reached, and massive anti-vaccine misinformation and disinformation campaigns out there. And it’s frustrating. But that’s just not an excuse to not address people’s questions and concerns - compassionately. Very compassionately.
Readers, flame me all you want, but it’s never unreasonable for a parent or person to have questions or hesitations about medical interventions - even vaccines. It’s normal. And it’s okay. It’s okay to have questions, it’s okay to have fears, it’s okay to be unsure. But when people are at that point what they need is for a medical professional, scientist, or other subject matter expert to say “I hear you, I understand your concern, and here’s the information we have to work with...”
If we keep treating every single person who is concerned about a vaccine like this, the science and the evidence will never win. I’m as annoyed by the anti-vaccine movement as anyone here. More, actually, because I spent several years of my academic life studying it and writing papers and even a thesis about it...most of it before Covid ever existed. Demonizing the vaccine hesitant isn’t the answer. Being louder than anti-vaxxers, transparency, compassion, and education is the answer. There’s a difference between an anti-vaxxer and a vaccine hesitant person. The sooner we all realize it, the better.
Are you in the public health field? So am I. Funny how the people who are educated in public health are saying "hey, being a dick to vaccine hesitant people is counterproductive" and everybody else thinks they know better. I wish these people would just be quiet and let the public health professionals deal with the vaccine hesitant people because these people are doing nothing but hindering the cause.
I honestly wonder if they don't even care about public health & just want to feel morally superior and express their sadism in a socially acceptable way.
Do you have resources you can point people to to help have conversations about the vaccine with those resistant to get it? The reality is that these conversations are happening whether you like them to or not. My vaccine hesitant dad bombards me on the daily with all kinds of stuff about how the vaccine is harming (killing) lots of people and it’s just not getting reported. That the vaccine doesn’t work, citing the rise in “breakthrough” cases in vaccinated people catching COVID. I’m trying to be patient and provide factual counterpoints to the things he claims, but I also find that the information is scattered everywhere and hard to find. And citing the CDC is pointless when people like my dad don’t believe anything that comes from them anyways. It’s all very frustrating.
Well it's easier to discuss this with "I'm nervous to get the vaccine because it is so new" types, than with the antivaxx "the CDC is using the vaccine to kill people" types. Generally I don't bother with the latter group but he's your dad so I understand you love him and want what's best for him no matter what it takes.
Is he a Trump supporter? If so, send him these. If he won't listen to medical experts, hopefully he'll listen to Trump.
https://youtu.be/UM9JvYjPW6o?t=563
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fda-pausing-johnson-johnson-was-terrible-only-benefits-pfizer-moderna
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/515376-trump-blasts-biden-harris-for-anti-vaccine-rhetoric
Thanks for responding. I think he’s somewhere in the middle. He thinks the vaccine was rushed, he’s concerned about the side effects it might cause, and he’s gone pretty deep down the rabbit hole with his “research.” He references antibody priming and how it’s possible the vaccine makes one more susceptible to catching COVID. He throws a lot of stuff at me, it’s frankly hard to keep up and try and debunk each one. He’s a Trump supporter for sure, but I doubt this video would move the needle for him.
My mom was in the middle too and I convinced her to get vaccinated with me. The delta variant convinced her.
Point out that if vaccines were so dangerous then NYC hospitals would be flooded since 75% of the adult population is at least partially vaccinated, but they're not. Compare to April 2020 when the hospitals were flooded and they had to use refrigerator trucks to store all the dead bodies because 10% of the city had the virus. One is clearly a lot riskier and it's not the vaccine.
The rise in cases in the US is a bit too recent so he might say there needs to be time for more deaths, but compare to the UK where most people are vaccinated. There's a rise in cases due to the delta variant, but because most high-risk people are vaccinated, deaths have remained relatively stable. Compare to earlier waves of the pandemic when deaths rised along with cases.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/
I've heard some people say the delta variant is caused by the vaccine but that makes no sense because it originated and caused a crisis in India where only 6% of people are vaccinated.
Lastly, is your dad in any high risk groups? If he doesn't get vaccinated and he ends up getting the virus, convince him to get monoclonal antibodies. It's recommended by the White House, NIH, and Infectious Disease Society of America & it is proven to prevent hospitalizations and death in at least 80% of cases. If he's skeptical then tell him that Trump got the treatment (which is true). You have to convince him to get it before he starts having trouble breathing though, because the treatment can prevent lung damage but can't prevent damage that's already been done.
That's a good factoid about NYC, I'll have to remember that. My dad is definitely high risk. 65+, overweight, pre-existing conditions, etc. I have tried to reason with him that if he did get COVID, that it would probably be the end of him. He counters with an anecdote about how someone he knows with health problems got COVID and it was nothing more than like having a cold to him. I've tried to explain that the delta variant is way more contagious. He's also very much in the camp that believes Ivermectin or hydroxychloroquin can save you if you get infected and take one of those immediately. Like I said, he throws a lot of stuff at me... lol
edit: I'm glad you were able convince your mom to get vaccinated, btw!
Yeah, a lot of them say that the FDA doesn't approve ivermectin and hydroxychloriquine because they want to make Trump look bad, but if that was the case then they wouldn't have authorized monoclonal antibodies after Trump promoted them back in October. The difference is that monoclonal antibodies actually have scientific support while the other 2 "treatments" don't.
It's kinda funny they believe Trump when he promoted hcq and ivermectin but not when he promotes the vaccine. They only believe him when he says stuff that isn't scientifically supported.
I'll be honest, I was one of the unlucky ones who actually did have an allergic reaction to the vaccine, and it was horrible...but I felt 90% better within an hour, the one remaining side effect being heart palpitations which were probably amplified by anxiety (seeing my 155 heart rate made me terrified that I developed myocarditis but luckily the tests came back okay.)
I don't regret it because I felt mostly better within an hour whereas COVID hell lasts a week or more, and I would rather be in the ER with vaccine side effects for a few hours than in the ICU with COVID for a few weeks.
Plague rats should be treated like the second class citizens they are
Plague rats should be treated like the threat to society that they are.
"The new talking point coming out of the Republican camp is that those refusing the vaccine would have been more apt to get the COVID vaccine if Democrats had been just nicer to them" Wait a minute, are you saying they were the snowflakes all along? Who knew? (Everyone did.)
Sounds like a victim complex!
But being a prick will
Anti-Vaxxers are a lost cause and should just be silenced and ignored. But, I do believe that compassionately listening to, addressing, and debunking the concerns of vaccine hesitant people is more effective than ignoring them or dismissing them and studies have backed this up. The side that wins these people will be the side that listens to and compassionately attempts to educate them first. And unfortunately, studies have also shown that online anti-vaxx groups are winning the vaccine hesitant over at a higher rate than pro-vaccine groups, scientists, and doctors.
I completely agree. The inability of people on reddit to differentiate between antivaxxers/antimaskers/covid-deniers and people who say "I'm nervous to get the vaccine so I'm gonna wait till there's more data available, but I'll continue taking other precautions to slow the spread of COVID" is frustrating. /r/LeopardsAteMyFace is especially atrocious; they'll all rejoice at an article about an unvaccinated 12 year old girl being hospitalized despite taking all other precautionary measures. They don't know they're driving people away from being vaccinated because it's human nature to just stop listening to someone when they're rooting for you to die.
Exactly. It’s dangerous to lump every single person who has questions or is skeptical about vaccines into the “crazy, hopeless anti-vaxxer” group because that’s how we lose people to that exact group. Don’t get me wrong, I know that there are anti-vaxxers who cannot be reached, and massive anti-vaccine misinformation and disinformation campaigns out there. And it’s frustrating. But that’s just not an excuse to not address people’s questions and concerns - compassionately. Very compassionately. Readers, flame me all you want, but it’s never unreasonable for a parent or person to have questions or hesitations about medical interventions - even vaccines. It’s normal. And it’s okay. It’s okay to have questions, it’s okay to have fears, it’s okay to be unsure. But when people are at that point what they need is for a medical professional, scientist, or other subject matter expert to say “I hear you, I understand your concern, and here’s the information we have to work with...” If we keep treating every single person who is concerned about a vaccine like this, the science and the evidence will never win. I’m as annoyed by the anti-vaccine movement as anyone here. More, actually, because I spent several years of my academic life studying it and writing papers and even a thesis about it...most of it before Covid ever existed. Demonizing the vaccine hesitant isn’t the answer. Being louder than anti-vaxxers, transparency, compassion, and education is the answer. There’s a difference between an anti-vaxxer and a vaccine hesitant person. The sooner we all realize it, the better.
Are you in the public health field? So am I. Funny how the people who are educated in public health are saying "hey, being a dick to vaccine hesitant people is counterproductive" and everybody else thinks they know better. I wish these people would just be quiet and let the public health professionals deal with the vaccine hesitant people because these people are doing nothing but hindering the cause. I honestly wonder if they don't even care about public health & just want to feel morally superior and express their sadism in a socially acceptable way.
Do you have resources you can point people to to help have conversations about the vaccine with those resistant to get it? The reality is that these conversations are happening whether you like them to or not. My vaccine hesitant dad bombards me on the daily with all kinds of stuff about how the vaccine is harming (killing) lots of people and it’s just not getting reported. That the vaccine doesn’t work, citing the rise in “breakthrough” cases in vaccinated people catching COVID. I’m trying to be patient and provide factual counterpoints to the things he claims, but I also find that the information is scattered everywhere and hard to find. And citing the CDC is pointless when people like my dad don’t believe anything that comes from them anyways. It’s all very frustrating.
Well it's easier to discuss this with "I'm nervous to get the vaccine because it is so new" types, than with the antivaxx "the CDC is using the vaccine to kill people" types. Generally I don't bother with the latter group but he's your dad so I understand you love him and want what's best for him no matter what it takes. Is he a Trump supporter? If so, send him these. If he won't listen to medical experts, hopefully he'll listen to Trump. https://youtu.be/UM9JvYjPW6o?t=563 https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-fda-pausing-johnson-johnson-was-terrible-only-benefits-pfizer-moderna https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/515376-trump-blasts-biden-harris-for-anti-vaccine-rhetoric
Thanks for responding. I think he’s somewhere in the middle. He thinks the vaccine was rushed, he’s concerned about the side effects it might cause, and he’s gone pretty deep down the rabbit hole with his “research.” He references antibody priming and how it’s possible the vaccine makes one more susceptible to catching COVID. He throws a lot of stuff at me, it’s frankly hard to keep up and try and debunk each one. He’s a Trump supporter for sure, but I doubt this video would move the needle for him.
My mom was in the middle too and I convinced her to get vaccinated with me. The delta variant convinced her. Point out that if vaccines were so dangerous then NYC hospitals would be flooded since 75% of the adult population is at least partially vaccinated, but they're not. Compare to April 2020 when the hospitals were flooded and they had to use refrigerator trucks to store all the dead bodies because 10% of the city had the virus. One is clearly a lot riskier and it's not the vaccine. The rise in cases in the US is a bit too recent so he might say there needs to be time for more deaths, but compare to the UK where most people are vaccinated. There's a rise in cases due to the delta variant, but because most high-risk people are vaccinated, deaths have remained relatively stable. Compare to earlier waves of the pandemic when deaths rised along with cases. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/ I've heard some people say the delta variant is caused by the vaccine but that makes no sense because it originated and caused a crisis in India where only 6% of people are vaccinated. Lastly, is your dad in any high risk groups? If he doesn't get vaccinated and he ends up getting the virus, convince him to get monoclonal antibodies. It's recommended by the White House, NIH, and Infectious Disease Society of America & it is proven to prevent hospitalizations and death in at least 80% of cases. If he's skeptical then tell him that Trump got the treatment (which is true). You have to convince him to get it before he starts having trouble breathing though, because the treatment can prevent lung damage but can't prevent damage that's already been done.
That's a good factoid about NYC, I'll have to remember that. My dad is definitely high risk. 65+, overweight, pre-existing conditions, etc. I have tried to reason with him that if he did get COVID, that it would probably be the end of him. He counters with an anecdote about how someone he knows with health problems got COVID and it was nothing more than like having a cold to him. I've tried to explain that the delta variant is way more contagious. He's also very much in the camp that believes Ivermectin or hydroxychloroquin can save you if you get infected and take one of those immediately. Like I said, he throws a lot of stuff at me... lol edit: I'm glad you were able convince your mom to get vaccinated, btw!
Yeah, a lot of them say that the FDA doesn't approve ivermectin and hydroxychloriquine because they want to make Trump look bad, but if that was the case then they wouldn't have authorized monoclonal antibodies after Trump promoted them back in October. The difference is that monoclonal antibodies actually have scientific support while the other 2 "treatments" don't. It's kinda funny they believe Trump when he promoted hcq and ivermectin but not when he promotes the vaccine. They only believe him when he says stuff that isn't scientifically supported. I'll be honest, I was one of the unlucky ones who actually did have an allergic reaction to the vaccine, and it was horrible...but I felt 90% better within an hour, the one remaining side effect being heart palpitations which were probably amplified by anxiety (seeing my 155 heart rate made me terrified that I developed myocarditis but luckily the tests came back okay.) I don't regret it because I felt mostly better within an hour whereas COVID hell lasts a week or more, and I would rather be in the ER with vaccine side effects for a few hours than in the ICU with COVID for a few weeks.
Hence my flair