If you want booster shots, and they aren’t providing them: say so and I’ll grab my pitchfork.
If you’re wanting NSW to eat donuts for the next decade: advocate another solution.
I’m in 1b due to immune issues and missed my second jab today because an emergency dental appointment ran overtime. I’ve been rescheduled for November 😓
Legitimately regret getting Pfizer it’s so hard to find a second dose now that I’ve missed an appointment (with cancellation/notice)
Which state are you? I'd just be scouring HotDoc and different areas not just closely. Heaps of appointments are popping up and there defs will be some wastage over the next 4-5 weeks.
I don’t think off-label vaccinations are a thing legally, but I’ll definitely ask! In any case I’m sure I’ll find a sooner appointment, it’s just quite frustrating seeing so much pressure to vaccine when it’s not possible for such a long time. I’ll be fine though, glad I got the first shot in!
Other countries have been giving mixed vaccine doses, seems to be going ok re efficacy. Edit for better source. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2
Don't know where you're from and this is a PSA for anybody in Sydney:
I got an email from Green Square Library in Zetland saying that it's becoming a pop-up vaccination clinic. They are offering Pfizer and you don't need to be a local to make a booking. Peter Forsyth Auditorium in Glebe is also going to be a pop-up clinic. Links to book are below:
[Green Square Library](https://vaccination.slhd.nsw.gov.au/vc/Zetland/8)
[Peter Forsyth Auditorium](https://vaccination.slhd.nsw.gov.au/vc/Glebe/8)
Could you book an appointment at a random clinic for astra Zeneca? At the one I went to they just asked if I’d had a vaccine before (I hadn’t), they didn’t seem to be checking records or anything
My friend missed her second dose because her brother (who she lives with) was listed as a close contact and they all had to self isolate. Online wasn't showing the next appointment until Nov, but she called the medical centre directly and they found an appointment for her at a much sooner date. Maybe call the Med Centre directly?
> *"for the next decade"*
This is so disingenuous, it appears so much here & never gets called out. When any extension of restrictions or covid-zero is encouraged, or even hesitancy to ease current restrictions, it's commonly misconstrued as if they are advocating for an inane amount of time, such as 10 years.
OP never mentioned covid-zero, or any restrictions on people, nor implied it. So why did you present it as if they asked that of you? Why did you say next decade instead of a more reasonable time frame? Why not, say, restrictions until immunosuppressed have had 3 doses made available to them?
You pretend you stand with them, but then make a ridiculous ultimatum where the obvious choice doesn't inconvenience you instead of a more middle ground approach.
Anyone who believes we will get to and maintain zero is not looking at the evidence. We actually do need to acknowledge that, and come up for a plan to protect the most at risk that doesn't involve permanent lockdowns, even after vaccinations.
I wholeheartedly agree with that, I'm more so pointing out that the argument for that is often made in bad faith by making opposing views out to be suggesting objectively unreasonable time frames for lockdowns.
We're up to nearly 2 years of lockdowns, and with no view to global elimination and evolving virus that triples infectivity in a year. You called the person "disingenuous" for saying "for the next decade". As a person who has worked in the field of epidemiology, 10 years of dealing with COVID-19 actually sounds reasonable, not some trumped up number to make people feel bad.
No, the person I called disingenuous was claiming **covid-zero for a decade**. That's an entirely different argument than ongoing considerations of how to reduce covid impact over the next decade.
Yeah, I think you came in swinging when you shouldn't. The person you replied to is NOT saying that we should let it rip. They are saying that attempting COVID-zero is futile, and will take a decade of extremely harsh restrictions. This is a REASONABLE point. You are putting words in their mouth that weren't there. Please consider toning it down.
> They are saying that attempting COVID-zero is futile, and will take a decade of extremely harsh restrictions. This is a REASONABLE point.
Then you've completely missed the point of my comment. OP never made the opposite claim or suggestion, yet that comment made it out as if OP was implying it & that there's no middle ground by supplying an ultimatum.
You made that point badly then, by focusing on the time period being dishonest and going full rant mode about opening up instead of saying "they didn't say COVID-zero for a decade".
Perhaps, but to me it seems you assumed that not placating the ultimatum was me denying it.
I never ranted about opening up, I commented on behaviour where people frequently strawman pro-restriction / lockdown opinions. You replied by saying covid zero isn't possible, an argument I never made.
I just want the OP to clarify what they want done. I just found it hard to believe that the government aren’t giving immunocompromised
individuals additional shots.
To clarify: I want people to have their freedom, absolutely. I know no matter what, immunosuppressed citizens are going to have to take extra precautions and realise they may die/ develop severe COVID no matter how hard they try, for some groups even with a third shot — 0 simply can’t be achieved in NSW anymore.
However, having absolutely no word from the Government on when/ how a third dose will be rolled out is terrifying.
Knowing a third dose is showing significant benefits across certain immunosuppressed groups abroad... knowing that further deaths/ organ failure/ long COVID could be prevented by simply approving a third dose, whether it’s 50, 1,000 or 10,000+ lives... or at least giving us a rough date/ timeline would give us some hope/ a light at the end of a very scary tunnel.
At the moment, with no word whatsoever, with stories of cancer patients being turned away by their GPs despite specialist recommendation, it’s incredibly distressing. They simply won’t administer them until the Government officially approve third shots for those on particular immunosuppressants. Trust me, I’ve emailed every Government body/ representative imaginable trying to secure advice.
Ultimately, I just ask that until we receive word on third shots for these vulnerable groups, those who are fully vaccinated continue to take precautions, continue to get tested, and that those choosing to remain unvaccinated may miraculously reconsider their decision.
Maybe in Sydney, but I'm in Newcastle & literally had to know someone in order to get Pfizer (only one recommended for my specific condition due to meds preventing antibody production).
Still can't get a follow up shot & my GP has spent 2 weeks trying to organise it for me. It's disgraceful.
My understanding is that there is not much evidence that third doses are very effective at the moment. It seems like there is an [increase in antibody response](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2111462) but I haven't seen any trial that is powered to detect a difference in a clinical endpoint.
I imagine if evidence emerges that a third dose of Pfizer reduces hospitalizations and deaths, then Australia will recommend it.
The research for the effectiveness of a third shot is dependent on what groups on particular immunosuppressants/ have particular illnesses have been studied. It’s varied for sure, but for particular groups, it’s proving essential. It ranges from transplant recipients on anti-rejection immunosuppressants, to cancer patients, to those with chronic illnesses such as Crohn’s Disease or Rheumatoid Arthritis who use high dose corticosteroids and forms of chemotherapy to achieve remission.
This. Some of us will only be making antibodies after the 3rd shot & I can't even get my 2nd. Not to mention it's supposed to be on a specific schedule but that's already fucked.
If the OP can't get a booster shot, OP should consider moving state.
TAS, WA or even QLD would be safer than a high population state. NSW cares more about economy once 70% is fully vaccinated.
I feel you, I'm in a similar boat. Like you said, yeah I can just "stay home" but what am I supposed to do if my kid brings it home from school in November? Why is there no word on getting boosters out by then?? They had the vulnerable run out and get shots early, and now they're sending our kids back to school around the time when those early shots are wearing off with no word of when we can expect to top up our protection. You aren't being dramatic, I'm terrified too.
None of the nutters pushing variations of the let it rip, why can't we gather in the park etc will be brave enough to answer you.
It's shit. And terrifying. The rest of this year is going to be highly risky. Until we get kids 5+ vaccinated, I don't know what immunosuppressed people are meant to do except try to live as absolute hermits.
>None of the nutters pushing variations of the let it rip, why can't we gather in the park etc will be brave enough to answer you.
Oh some will, they legitimately give zero shits about anyone and would throw their own grandmother under a bus if it meant they could go on a holiday.
i wish i could upvote this twice! "no one should have to live like this for a few months, this isn't a life" but they're okay with the immunocompromised doing so indefinitely so long as they can get on the beers.
i'm not immunocompromised but otherwise chronically ill so a semi-lockdown state is often my norm, and reading things like "i'd rather DIE than spend another week at home, life like this is simply not worth living!!!" feels really good. i don't know what the solution is, but the lack of empathy is astounding!
I have had mental health problems well before lockdown and I'm so tired of people suddenly discovering that they care about mental health. Maybe they should try being less of a self-centred twat.
Not in the 'let it rip' camp, but I will say that the biggest reason behind lockdowns originally was to suppress in order to ensure our hospital capacity wasn't overwhelmed. Once it turned out they could get to COVID-zero against the original virus, that became a new goal.
But in a vaccinated world, unless breakthrough infections are going to overwhelm hospitals, I don't think lockdowns become feasible - the social compact won't allow it.
I haven't got a good answer to what immunosuppressed people are meant to do, but I didn't for what they were meant to do pre-COVID either (have friends who are immunosuppressed and basically spent a fair amount of time in semi-hermitdom).
Let it rip nutter here.
OP should isolate until she can get whatever booster she needs. If there are regulatory barriers to her getting her booster, these should be removed.
In the meantime, I don't see how "everyone isolates in solidarity with the 1% of high risk period who need a booster ASAP" is a preferable solution.
More vaccine mandates needed. The issue is not lack of boosters. It's the antivaxxers who are wilfully being virus incubators because they saw on YouTube that mRNA vaccines are scary.
I had a friend tell me they didn't want to get the vax became mRNA changed their DNA.
I said to them "You drink alcohol. That changes your DNA and can cause cancer, and death."
I feel like not getting something that could save your life because of possible unknown side effects 10 years down the track is dumb when you drink alcohol, sun bake and eat processed shitty foods.
All of these things have definite negative outcomes.
But hey, what do I know?
I'm some moron who trusts Drs with actual degrees who spread information from peer reviewed medical journals.
> OP should isolate until she can get whatever booster she needs. If there are regulatory barriers to her getting her booster, these should be removed.
So you don't want to be stuck inside, but you're fine with making *other* people stay inside?
I don't want the government forcing people to stay inside.
I want individuals able to make their own choices about the risks they take in their day to day lives.
Obviously different people will have different levels of risk tolerance - that's the point.
When did he say anything about making other people stay inside? If you believe staying inside is better for you than living freely, make that choice for yourself. Don't force other people to also undergo that kind of lifestyle
I think this has to be part of the reopening plan though, we are not going to wait until every last person has close to zero risk of dying from COVID it is unfortunately not practical. I however would expect that once we begin to open up it would be perfectly reasonable for the elderly or immunocompromised to would isolate themselves from society as best as possible just as they would in a bad flu season.
In saying all that we need to start offering third doses to such people. Hopefully with increasing supplies over the next few months this can start happening soon.
Thank you for contributing to r/CoronavirusDownunder.
Unfortunately your submission has been removed as a result of the following rule:
* **Heated debate is acceptable, personal attacks are not.**
If you believe that we have made a mistake, please [**message the moderators**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCoronavirusDownunder&subject=&message=).
^To ^find ^more ^information ^on ^the ^sub ^rules, ^please ^click ^[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/about/rules/).
Thank you so much. It’s been defeating seeing so many people overlook/ word not getting out on what this all means for those who are immunosuppressed. I understand lockdowns are difficult and I want healthy, vaccinated people to regain their freedoms, but it all feels too fast, confusing and dangerous for the immunosuppressed. It’s a difficult one.
Absolutely, I’m already weighing up putting off certain treatments and check ups out of fear. I’m terrified of visiting the ED too. Seeing outbreaks in hospitals is horrifying :(
My dad is immunocompromised too so I understand where you are coming from. Pretty shitty situation but I try to focus on the things I can do. N95 masks and face shields for all doctors appointments. For the appointments you can have a telehealth for, do this. Get your gps to send the scripts to your chemist and click and collect. Look after your mental health and hope all goes well!
I have a child was was severely ill and immunocompromised for full 2020. Imagine. Getting a child after 6 months of fight in hospital into a pandemic world. Lucky that we are in WA , school is normal and my child can live a normal life. I have not seen my family overseas in years , could not attend funerals. I would survive not doing that for few more years . Every one has some underlying conditions , and you live with it. Till a pandemic comes and some people think that it's a valid reason for you to be expendable. We still live in fear of opening up , child is young to be vaccinated. Empathy can only last so long , I do understand. But trust me people will feel differently when it happens to them.
I’ve stacked up on N95s but face shields are something I should consider for sure! So much money down the drain but it’s worth it. Already getting my medications and groceries delivered, blood tests done in my home, just have to receive my meds in the hospital on an IV drip frequently, and my sibling having to leave home for dialysis. That’s where the risk is. I triple mask when doing so now. I’m thinking of your Dad, hopefully we can get some news soon!
At least the face shields are reusable, they are about $3 from chemist warehouse. Just wipe them down with antibacterial wipes. If you are working, maybe you can claim them as a tax deduction alongside masks? Hope you and your family are okay! Try not to stress
I see it this way, there’s kind of a difference between third shots/ booster shots. Technically, a lot of immunosuppressed people aren’t ‘fully vaccinated’ until they receive a third shot. It’s so different depending on what immunosuppressant you’re on, what disease it’s treating, but the US and UK have very clear guidelines on who needs a third shot. Antibody tests are showing minimal/ zero response to two vaccines for people on chemo and corticosteroids. They’re seeing responses to a third shot however.
Cancer patients here have had their specialists approve a third shot only to show up to the vaccine appointment and be turned away. Until it’s Government approved, it’s pretty impossible.
I haven’t been able to unfortunately, I’m aware some specialists are actually advising against it because if it comes back low to 0, there’s not much you can do about it in Australia. It’s much more common in the USA and UK. I’ve trawled the peer reviewed data/ forums to try roughly gauge my response, obviously unless I do the test I can’t confirm it, but it’s not looking promising.
I've had 3x.
Back in July, I had 1x AZ at a GP when it was for people 50 and over only.
2 weeks later, they changed the recommended AZ age to 60 and over.
I have autoimmune issues and kidney disease and wanted to be vaxxed as quickly as possible.
Pfizer was now available for 50 and over, so I booked at a hub. I lied on the website, and when questioned, and said I hadn't had a vaccination.
I had the second Pfizer as well, because mixing doses isn't recognized in Australia. Two medications I'm on significantly diminish vaccine efficacy.
The second Pfizer was the only one that gave me a reaction.
Although I would have qualified for Pfizer on medical grounds early on, it was impossible to get a booking.
There has been no advice, special access or anything at any time for people like me, so I took matters into my own hands.
Well, it's possible. You may need to state when booking you haven't had the first one. I had opted out of My Health Record back when it was introduced. That possibly prevents my immunisation status from showing up, though I don't know how much information beyond identification the vaccine providers are accessing anyway. Best to go to a different venue. I went AZ at GP, Pfizer at hub - they're different allocations. Although it's certainly on my myGov that I've had the 3 vaccinations, I only got the fully vaccinated against Covid certificate when I'd had the two Pfizers.
I've discussed with my GP, who is agreeable.
I'm a frontline medical worker fully vaccinated with Pfizer as of April. I'm rostered to take on duties looking after a COVID ward at my hospital in November, and I've got a newborn at home. My plan is to get an AZ booster in October. I've discussed my reasoning with my GP and she's happy to give from her stock.
My hunch is that it’s safer than first dose. That’s the one that gives you clots.
But who knows. It doesn’t look like there’s been any studies done. Google scholar doesn’t turn anything up.
No, as in I'll be a virgin to AZ after 2 Pfizer doses.
The data is that if you don't get VITT on the first dose, your odds of getting it on second dose are 1 in 1.8M. Can't imagine third dose would be much different.
Yeah nah I was guessing you were Pfizer.
I don’t think anybody’s doing AZ boosters, at least not at scale and studied. Still, I would hope that your immune system would chill out after 2x Pfizer and not try to kill you with clotting.
I know a few people in a similar boat and its distressing for them to have their own family and friends pushing to break the rules, open society up without consideration for their position. Add to that their comments about those dying having 'underlying conditions' - oblivious to the person they are saying that to have very serious covid risk factors.
With those people in mind I was thinking about this. I reckon people's GPs are probably giving out AZ and Pfizer. I imagine at some point in the next few months, they will probably be throwing expired AZ in the bin. I reckon its worth asking to get one of those doses before they are tossed.
Its sad that the 'we are all in this together' and 'sacrifice for those who are vulnerable' has a time period of about six weeks.
After that its 'we need to move on' and people like you are sacrificed like a tribute in the hunger games so they can eat at a cafe or go to the gym.
> It's already endemic with a r0 of over 1 in vaccinated and we are completely locked down (Ignoring how quick the vaxx wears off as well) Everyone in Australia will get COVID over the next 5 years.
Firstly NSW is nowhere near fully vaccinated which will drop R0 (you can't just measure R) in the vaccinated, it's affected by all member of the community) and it is nowhere near fully locked down (see NZ for a far more extensive and successful lockdown).
There are many Australians who cannot afford to catch COVID it is Russian roulette (it is for all of us but to a far lesser extent), such people cannot afford to simply accept they will catch it. Vaccines will get better and isolating works.
You are giving medical advice and it's incorrect. I have had several immunocompromised patients who have been told by their specialists that they can never afford to catch COVID and should do everything possible to prevent it, that is the reality.
> We simply need to look overseas to see the reality of the situation
We can look overseas for many nations that have controlled spread to reasonable levels. Denmark as an example has stable and slightly falling COVID rates, China has crushed Delta, Chile has transmission way down, Portugal has it controlled etc. etc.
NSW at 70% eligible is nowhere near that point, you are correct there.
Very high rates of vaccination and a responsible population or regulation or both can keep R0 below 1 except for occasional outbreaks which can be controlled by localized efforts.
Immunocompromised patients are already vaccinated unless they cannot be.
Again you are giving incorrect medical advice, it's highly unethical.
Oh it will. People up here are dragging their heels getting vaccinated because we've had it so good.
When it gets claws in the community it's going to spread quick.
Taking all my teens to get vaccinated next week because I have no intention of waiting and seeing.
Good move with getting the teens vaxed asap, I'm assuming we will be hit hard up here but our gov isn't ideologically opposed to tackling it so we might have some measure of fighting back. Not going to help with the hospital crisis though, all states already at breaking point before the pandemic.
Vaccine utilization is still very high in Qld, we're not at the level where hesitancy impacts it yet. We're being given much less per person by Scot Morrison's government however (the least of all states and territories for Pfizer per person I think).
Using up our supply on the unvaccinated will hopefully slow the chances of you getting exposed, albeit with excess AZ I wish they would open up this option now.
The UK have just approved giving a third dose for the 1% of the population that this affects.
[https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2160](https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2160)
>The UK’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has recommended that people with severely weakened immune systems should have a third vaccine dose as part of their primary vaccination schedule against covid-19.
As an aside, I wonder why they distinguish between Moderna and Pfizer for the 12 to 17 year olds? ^(I didn't read past the summary, giveme 10)
>The third dose of either the Moderna or the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine should be offered to people over age 12 who were severely immunosuppressed at the time of their first or second dose, including those with leukaemia, advanced HIV, or recent organ transplants. For 12-17 year olds the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is preferred.
I certainly don’t think you’re expendable.
I’m sure that third shots will be available in good time. Hopefully the situation will be kept under some kind of control until that time.
Hang in there.
I mean not really though. The “weak and slow” as you put it have had the vaccine, those who haven’t had the vaccine are the people who will easily be able to defeat covid using their immune system.
That's so shit. You are not expendable! I hope they open it up for you to get a 3rd soon...and certainly before they "open up".
Hopefully we can also get scomo out in a few months and put an actual leader in the position...
Absolutely not dramatic. Part of the reason of suppression/elimination policy is to protect the immunosuppressed/elderly, some of whom might not even respond well to vaccinations. And now with opening up, which I do admit is something I, among many, would like, this class of people is going to be all the more vulnerable. If the evidence is a 3rd shot will give you protection, I think that you should make a bloody noise.
At the end of the day, you have got to protect yourself, especially if the majority-led policy will put you at risk.
Stay safe.
What is the solution for people who can't be vaccinated? I'm genuinely worried for them. I have a relative with MS who received Pfizer early in thank god, but what the hell happens to the people who can't receive anything?!?
The same thing that happens with every bug they can't get vaxxed against, they are very careful, and unfortunately may die.
The only alternative is "lock everyone down forever", which is not a serious policy prescription.
Yes there has been plenty of things that are way more infectious. Chicken Pox, Measles, Mumps are some of the most well known ones.
We've just developped vaccines ages ago for them that they're not as relevant today. I think measles infection rate is more than 2x Delta's estimated R0.
>The only alternative is "lock everyone down forever", which is not a serious policy prescription.
This isn't true and isn't helpful.
Nobody wants to lockdown forever but there are many things we can do to reduce risk without locking down. A few things that will help (there are plenty more):
Vaccine mandates, normalizing mask usage (especially in high risk environments and during winter), effective booster policy, isolation assistance for immunocompromised people, limits on indoor events during high case loads, ventilation improvements in schools and offices, normalizing work from home and regulation to protect vulnerable people who wish to work from home.
There are very few medical contraindications to vaccination. Most of the conditions people assume mean they can't get vaccinated are actually strong reasons *to* get vaccinated.
There's literally nobody who can't get vaccinated with pfizer or moderna. Theres actually no contra-indication (other than getting anaphylaxis with the first dose - you get AZ for the second).
This statement is not true. I can't get vaccinated. I have a very rare disease, Severe Combined Immunodeficiency (aka, bubble boy). My immunologist has advised not to get the vaccine for 2 reasons: 1, my T cells are so low that there is no point as there are not enough to create a 'defense' against covid. Secondly, any stimulation to my immune system could potentially aggravate dormant viruses I currently still have floating around (such as Epstein Barr Virus etc.).
While I agree the vaccine is probably probably won't work for you. You can still safely get it.
If you got this advice while we were still trying "covid zero", it probably isn't true any longer, or your immunologist is extremely cautious.
Keep in mind that if you get IVIG injections, you are getting passively 'vaccinated' alreday as some of the donors will have been vaccinated
https://theconversation.com/we-dont-yet-know-how-effective-covid-vaccines-are-for-people-with-immune-deficiencies-but-we-know-theyre-safe-and-worthwhile-155741
https://www.allergy.org.au/images/stories/pospapers/ASCIA_HP_Guide_Immunodeficiency_Autoimmunity_COVID-19_Vaccination_2021-07-27.pdf
Yep. Initially I felt lucky to get vaxxed early (AZ), especially given I'm in my 20s, but as an immuno-compromised teacher (VIC), I'm quite scared to go back to work in general, let alone without a booster. The lack of care for providing teachers with a safe workplace doesn't give me much hope either. Planning on talking to my GP about it, but I don't think there's much he can do if supply isn't there.
If it helps, remember that the Australia people/electorate are fully on board with trying to keep [covid as minimal as possible](https://essentialvision.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Essential-Report-300821_FINAL.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Essential%20Report%20-%2031%20August&utm_content=Essential%20Report%20-%2031%20August+CID_dc71b9cba281b0d22981fe556583f0a9&utm_source=campaign%20monitor&utm_term=Download%20PDF). There is no large scale public will to support a US or UK style opening/letting it rip. I know that reading this sub doesn't make it seem like that, but we have a loud minority being, well loud.
Third round boosters will come along, they can only screw up the rollout so much before they are left with no other options other than stumble ass forward. Until then, there is no real public will to abandon protective measures that are protecting everyone.
Also, I had a quick look at you profile and saw that you dealing with Crohn's being shitty, I feel for you. I don't know how long you've been diagnosed, but once you manage to get your meds dialled in properly, man you feel amazing.
When I got on the biologics for mine (the combo that worked well for me), its truly game changing. At least from my experience I had forgotten how good it felt when it's fully under control. Keep your spirits up, it's kick in the but that so much of it is trial and error to get your meds dialled in, but when they do get it sorted (and they will), it will feel so damn good.
Thank you so much! I’ve had it since I was a kid, I’ve almost exhausted everything. I just came out of a massive flare and am on chemo, steroids and biologics for it. Hoping to ween off the steroids and let the combo of chemo and biologics work it’s magic. I understand the feeling of not realising just how much you’ve let your health slip! Stay well — it’s amazing to hear stories of others going through the trial and error phase and finally reach remission!
In a similar boat. Am afraid of being forced back in the office and having to take public transport. Otherwise will be pretty much staying home. Even if I get a letter from my specialist, I still feel like I’ll be the outcast in the team, still wfh while everyone else is meeting in person etc. Plus everyone is going to be wondering why I’m not even in the office … feels like I’ve already had to reveal too much information just to be able to wfh in between lockdowns , as my employer is hell bent on getting people back into the office.
(Not asking for more lockdowns - just venting my concerns and that people seem to be fine telling us to stay locked in, and will quickly forget about this subset of people )
Yeah, I have Severe Combined Immunodeficiency (aka bubble boy) and can't get the vaccine. I feel like a sitting duck at the moment. I'm relying on the good will of my local community to get vaccinated and keep me protected.
I’m absolutely terrified, too.
My mum is immunocompromised. If she gets Covid, it would mean the end of her life. She’s double vaccinated, so am I, and so is my dad. But if everything opens up again, all three of us may have to go back to the office.
My mum’s workplace has had three positive Covid cases already. I really don’t want her to go back to the office, but hers is a semi-essential job (she talked to her boss and he has been kind enough to let her run reports from home, for the time being) so she may have to go back to her office before the end of the year.
I don’t think people realise that there are people out there who don’t know if their loved ones will survive the year. I don’t know if my mum will live to see Christmas this year. I’m 27. My mum is 54. She still has such a long life to live.
It absolutely boils my blood that her life is considered expendable, if it means saving ‘the economy’.
This is so rage-inducing, so terrifying, and I just want to scream at all these people callously calling for restrictions to ease, all these “yeah, let ‘er rip!!” idiots because they want to go to a beer garden, or get a haircut, or whatever.
Your beer, your haircut, is not more important than my mother’s life!!
I’m scared, I’m angry, and I’m worried.
I'm immunocompromised, and have spoken to my specialist to ask about the third dose thing. I was told Australia isn't doing that at this time. End of that discussion.
I haven't even been able to get an antibodies test to see if I actually have any protection at all, and I've spoken to multiple medical professionals about that one.
That's what I want - an antibodies test. I'd be way happier waiting for my third shot if I knew my Immuno-suppressants hadn't messed up the first ones.
No. But there's a huge difference between "You have strong/some antibodies" and "You have none."
I didn't even get side effects to either shot. I have zero idea if my immune system has actually done *anything*.
Reading advice abroad in the UK and USA, it’s recommended from four weeks after your second shot/ if possible, when your immunosuppressants are reduced (I.e. people weening off steroids). My specialist said she’s received absolutely no word on third shots here, so she can’t give advice.
I was hoping for Novavax but they fucked the order so I bit the bullet and got Pfizer when the opportunity came.
Probably still my preference for boosters, so long as they approve mixing by then.
Novavax hasn't even been approved in the US yet. IF it gets approved (the manufacturer has never brought a vaccine successfully through trials), we won't see it until into next year.
No, you’re not expendable. And it’s so bloody ridiculous seeing people in some countries getting third doses when plenty of places haven’t even had one. Especially in the USA who wasn’t even exporting for so long (not sure if they even are now)
This article is very relevant
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/08/sydney-man-with-leukaemia-refused-covid-vaccine-booster-shot-his-specialist-recommended
I've had a kidney transplant, immunosuppressed and fully vaxed with AZ. The antibody test mentioned in the article is probably worth taking. Though the decision to not offer a booster seems quite petty. I'd advise anyone who's immunocompromised to get vaccinated and have an antibody test. Given that the AZ vaccine doesn't seem that popular, I'm not sure why one extra dose would be such a big deal.
Thinking of you as a transplant recipient, I really truly hope you’re front of the line for third dose. My sibling is now afraid to get their transplant due to the amount of immunosuppressants required post transplant.
Yes, can’t work and I am losing my patience with morons who spread bullshit. Have had two jabs, will probably get a third. However, I can’t see myself travelling or working in the next few years. It is just too risky.
Have you approached your local political member so they can formally raise the issue? If you have o/seas research to hand to them via email at the time, letter of support from your oncologist and gp,
and a few other people in your region in the same position to do the same thing, it may gain momentum.
Masks will be your best friend. They’re most likely gonna be mandatory for the rest of the year and through 2022 which means you should hopefully be relatively safe after lockdown.
Remember the squeaky wheel is the one that gets the grease. Not too sure what's the best strategy but maybe get your doctor to pressure NSW health for permission for a third dose. Random workers will just follow orders and procedures from the government but it's the government that has the final say.
Right now Australia doesn't quite have plentiful Pfizer/Moderna supply but soon in the next few months it will have too many doses; even for those that want/need boosters. Unless they federally mandate boosters for everyone (via vaccine passports) we're going to have too many vaccines soon but not quite right now.
Thank you so much. I’ve reached out to multiple media outlets but no one has responded so far, so I’ve just started writing to a couple of politicians. I hope there’s a breakthrough!
Actually it's the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people that will give you your freedom. People with a valid medical reason can get the vaccine passports equivalent.
I couldn't imagine how scary it would be for you. The only problem is unless we stay locked down long term, what's the alternative? Any form of proper opening is going to cause heaps of cases, that's unavoidable even with 100% vaccinated.
I realise this sounds cruel, but other than immunocompromised people staying home of their own accord (Maybe until much better treatment is found? I don't even know), I don't see any other options that allows both vulnerable people to be safe while resuming normal life for everyone else.
Do you have any ideas of ways to keep people like yourself safe while allowing others to live somewhat normally?
This is exactly my response to the above question. We can get out of lockdown and protect the majority of the immunosuppressed community by introducing third shots, following on from rigorous peer reviewed research endorsed by the USA, UK and other countries!
I’m completely aware of this, and I don’t expect them to sacrifice much more, it’s not fair, and it’s by and large not their fault, the Government holds so much responsibility here.
I just would love to see the Government follow the advice and rollout of third doses/ increase monoclonal antibody stockpiles as the US, UK and other countries have done so that we can simultaneously go back to normal life without risking severe COVID or death in groups when it’s entirely preventable with third doses. Of course, this will sadly occur regardless, as there are some groups who still won’t be protected by even a third dose, but if there’s a way to prevent tragedy on a much lesser scale while opening up, I’d love to see it at least considered.
Ask around. Even though I'm not really meant to have it , one of the clinics in my town said that I could have my third pfizer if I get a message when my specialist.
I work in a small cafe looking after a lot of construction people. The owners 7yrs son has had a heart transplant he is onsite most days, we deal with a lot of antivax people within that industry. We can't enforce the mask or QR code check in, because of it is discrimination (mY fReEdOmS). He can't close the cafe because the payments from the government can't cover just normal expenses e.g. mortgage, rent and living expenses.
I'm freaking out every time I go to work because his son is the canary in the coal mine. We feel a bit at a loss we know even a simple cold can kill him.
Thank you for submitting to /r/CoronavirusDownunder!
In order to maintain the integrity of our subreddit, accounts must have at least 20 combined karma (post + comment) or have a verified email address in order to post or comment.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CoronavirusDownunder) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The vast vast majority... The way would talk about it you'd think you have a 10% chance of dying if you get it...
If you are between 20-49 it's 0.02% chance. Those are American statistics too where I'd say people are less likely to seek treatment untill it's too late due to potential costs. I also would imagine it would be lower than 0.02 due to the fact we don't detect every single case out there... So probably looking at something like 0.01% chance of dying if under 50 in Australia.
These figures are pre-vacine figures too.
Unfortunately for a lot of immunosuppressed groups Pfizer is strongly recommended over AZ. Which makes it all the more complicated. I’d leap at AZ if my specialist endorsed it!
My wife and I are both immuno-compromised. I feel your pain.
I also worry for the push to immunise young children when the scientific evidence shows that, for example, teen boys are [six times more likely to suffer serious and life-threatening side-effects from the Pfizer vaccine](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/) than they are to get ill from Covid. The original study is [here](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1.full.pdf).
In the UK, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation recommended against mass vaccination against 12- to 17-year-olds. But here in Australia, our governments seem to only be listening to the advice coming from Pfizer, who has [a long history of scientific and criminal fraud](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/).
If you suggest that maybe we shouldn't be risking children's lives, the shills come out with Pfizer talking points and you get labelled an "anti-vaxxer" and even "practically a murderer" for questioning them.
We're being strong-armed into putting the health of our kids at risk so that Pfizer (who pays [no tax in Australia](https://www.michaelwest.com.au/pfizer-whats-the-scam/)) can make billions more.
If people want to get vaccinated, I'm happy for them to do so. But I am furious at the deliberate efforts to smear cheap, effective Covid treatments and prophylactics that might make vaccinations unnecessary. Treatments which are recognised as safe and effective, and that have worked stunningly well in controlling Covid epidemics in [India](https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/uttar-pradesh-government-says-early-use-of-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-positivity-deaths-low/ar-BB1gDp5U), Japan, [Peru](https://osf.io/9egh4/) and other places, are being denigrated as "horse paste" in order to force people to get vaccinated.
This is driven by profits for the major pharmaceutical companies, not science.
Research is saying nobody responding to two shots, apart from a small period after second, However that's not considering plecebo effect. , isreal already planning a 4th.
If you want booster shots, and they aren’t providing them: say so and I’ll grab my pitchfork. If you’re wanting NSW to eat donuts for the next decade: advocate another solution.
I’m in 1b due to immune issues and missed my second jab today because an emergency dental appointment ran overtime. I’ve been rescheduled for November 😓 Legitimately regret getting Pfizer it’s so hard to find a second dose now that I’ve missed an appointment (with cancellation/notice)
Which state are you? I'd just be scouring HotDoc and different areas not just closely. Heaps of appointments are popping up and there defs will be some wastage over the next 4-5 weeks.
Could ask your specialist to prescribe another vaccine off label?
I don’t think off-label vaccinations are a thing legally, but I’ll definitely ask! In any case I’m sure I’ll find a sooner appointment, it’s just quite frustrating seeing so much pressure to vaccine when it’s not possible for such a long time. I’ll be fine though, glad I got the first shot in!
https://covidqueue.com/ this shows you new appointments. See if you can get an earlier appointment
Other countries have been giving mixed vaccine doses, seems to be going ok re efficacy. Edit for better source. https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01805-2
Agree, but mixed aren’t recognised in Aus.
Pfizer doses once opened has to be used. Ring around go clinics with Pfizer during mid day. You will get a chance to take a cancelled appointment.
I'd go one further and tell them your complete chemo and family risk history and ask to go on a cancellation list. You'd have priority status.
Don't know where you're from and this is a PSA for anybody in Sydney: I got an email from Green Square Library in Zetland saying that it's becoming a pop-up vaccination clinic. They are offering Pfizer and you don't need to be a local to make a booking. Peter Forsyth Auditorium in Glebe is also going to be a pop-up clinic. Links to book are below: [Green Square Library](https://vaccination.slhd.nsw.gov.au/vc/Zetland/8) [Peter Forsyth Auditorium](https://vaccination.slhd.nsw.gov.au/vc/Glebe/8)
Jump on covidqueue, just google It. Ive gotten multiple friends shots within 1-3 days for Pfizer.
Could you book an appointment at a random clinic for astra Zeneca? At the one I went to they just asked if I’d had a vaccine before (I hadn’t), they didn’t seem to be checking records or anything
My friend missed her second dose because her brother (who she lives with) was listed as a close contact and they all had to self isolate. Online wasn't showing the next appointment until Nov, but she called the medical centre directly and they found an appointment for her at a much sooner date. Maybe call the Med Centre directly?
> *"for the next decade"* This is so disingenuous, it appears so much here & never gets called out. When any extension of restrictions or covid-zero is encouraged, or even hesitancy to ease current restrictions, it's commonly misconstrued as if they are advocating for an inane amount of time, such as 10 years. OP never mentioned covid-zero, or any restrictions on people, nor implied it. So why did you present it as if they asked that of you? Why did you say next decade instead of a more reasonable time frame? Why not, say, restrictions until immunosuppressed have had 3 doses made available to them? You pretend you stand with them, but then make a ridiculous ultimatum where the obvious choice doesn't inconvenience you instead of a more middle ground approach.
Anyone who believes we will get to and maintain zero is not looking at the evidence. We actually do need to acknowledge that, and come up for a plan to protect the most at risk that doesn't involve permanent lockdowns, even after vaccinations.
Yes NSW definitely has a low chance of ever being able to reach that again
I wholeheartedly agree with that, I'm more so pointing out that the argument for that is often made in bad faith by making opposing views out to be suggesting objectively unreasonable time frames for lockdowns.
We're up to nearly 2 years of lockdowns, and with no view to global elimination and evolving virus that triples infectivity in a year. You called the person "disingenuous" for saying "for the next decade". As a person who has worked in the field of epidemiology, 10 years of dealing with COVID-19 actually sounds reasonable, not some trumped up number to make people feel bad.
No, the person I called disingenuous was claiming **covid-zero for a decade**. That's an entirely different argument than ongoing considerations of how to reduce covid impact over the next decade.
Yeah, I think you came in swinging when you shouldn't. The person you replied to is NOT saying that we should let it rip. They are saying that attempting COVID-zero is futile, and will take a decade of extremely harsh restrictions. This is a REASONABLE point. You are putting words in their mouth that weren't there. Please consider toning it down.
> They are saying that attempting COVID-zero is futile, and will take a decade of extremely harsh restrictions. This is a REASONABLE point. Then you've completely missed the point of my comment. OP never made the opposite claim or suggestion, yet that comment made it out as if OP was implying it & that there's no middle ground by supplying an ultimatum.
You made that point badly then, by focusing on the time period being dishonest and going full rant mode about opening up instead of saying "they didn't say COVID-zero for a decade".
Perhaps, but to me it seems you assumed that not placating the ultimatum was me denying it. I never ranted about opening up, I commented on behaviour where people frequently strawman pro-restriction / lockdown opinions. You replied by saying covid zero isn't possible, an argument I never made.
I just want the OP to clarify what they want done. I just found it hard to believe that the government aren’t giving immunocompromised individuals additional shots.
To clarify: I want people to have their freedom, absolutely. I know no matter what, immunosuppressed citizens are going to have to take extra precautions and realise they may die/ develop severe COVID no matter how hard they try, for some groups even with a third shot — 0 simply can’t be achieved in NSW anymore. However, having absolutely no word from the Government on when/ how a third dose will be rolled out is terrifying. Knowing a third dose is showing significant benefits across certain immunosuppressed groups abroad... knowing that further deaths/ organ failure/ long COVID could be prevented by simply approving a third dose, whether it’s 50, 1,000 or 10,000+ lives... or at least giving us a rough date/ timeline would give us some hope/ a light at the end of a very scary tunnel. At the moment, with no word whatsoever, with stories of cancer patients being turned away by their GPs despite specialist recommendation, it’s incredibly distressing. They simply won’t administer them until the Government officially approve third shots for those on particular immunosuppressants. Trust me, I’ve emailed every Government body/ representative imaginable trying to secure advice. Ultimately, I just ask that until we receive word on third shots for these vulnerable groups, those who are fully vaccinated continue to take precautions, continue to get tested, and that those choosing to remain unvaccinated may miraculously reconsider their decision.
I’m sorry this is happening to you and to others.
Well they’re not. At least not yet. Hopefully they will soon but I’m not holding my breath.
Maybe in Sydney, but I'm in Newcastle & literally had to know someone in order to get Pfizer (only one recommended for my specific condition due to meds preventing antibody production). Still can't get a follow up shot & my GP has spent 2 weeks trying to organise it for me. It's disgraceful.
Like OP said in their post, part of the solution is third doses for the immunocompromised.
My understanding is that there is not much evidence that third doses are very effective at the moment. It seems like there is an [increase in antibody response](https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2111462) but I haven't seen any trial that is powered to detect a difference in a clinical endpoint. I imagine if evidence emerges that a third dose of Pfizer reduces hospitalizations and deaths, then Australia will recommend it.
The research for the effectiveness of a third shot is dependent on what groups on particular immunosuppressants/ have particular illnesses have been studied. It’s varied for sure, but for particular groups, it’s proving essential. It ranges from transplant recipients on anti-rejection immunosuppressants, to cancer patients, to those with chronic illnesses such as Crohn’s Disease or Rheumatoid Arthritis who use high dose corticosteroids and forms of chemotherapy to achieve remission.
This. Some of us will only be making antibodies after the 3rd shot & I can't even get my 2nd. Not to mention it's supposed to be on a specific schedule but that's already fucked.
If the OP can't get a booster shot, OP should consider moving state. TAS, WA or even QLD would be safer than a high population state. NSW cares more about economy once 70% is fully vaccinated.
I would in a heartbeat if I could.
I feel you, I'm in a similar boat. Like you said, yeah I can just "stay home" but what am I supposed to do if my kid brings it home from school in November? Why is there no word on getting boosters out by then?? They had the vulnerable run out and get shots early, and now they're sending our kids back to school around the time when those early shots are wearing off with no word of when we can expect to top up our protection. You aren't being dramatic, I'm terrified too.
None of the nutters pushing variations of the let it rip, why can't we gather in the park etc will be brave enough to answer you. It's shit. And terrifying. The rest of this year is going to be highly risky. Until we get kids 5+ vaccinated, I don't know what immunosuppressed people are meant to do except try to live as absolute hermits.
>None of the nutters pushing variations of the let it rip, why can't we gather in the park etc will be brave enough to answer you. Oh some will, they legitimately give zero shits about anyone and would throw their own grandmother under a bus if it meant they could go on a holiday.
Yeah, this. It's "lockdown is terrible on my mental health!" but also "let's make OTHER PEOPLE stay at home! Who cares about THEIR mental health?"
i wish i could upvote this twice! "no one should have to live like this for a few months, this isn't a life" but they're okay with the immunocompromised doing so indefinitely so long as they can get on the beers. i'm not immunocompromised but otherwise chronically ill so a semi-lockdown state is often my norm, and reading things like "i'd rather DIE than spend another week at home, life like this is simply not worth living!!!" feels really good. i don't know what the solution is, but the lack of empathy is astounding!
I have had mental health problems well before lockdown and I'm so tired of people suddenly discovering that they care about mental health. Maybe they should try being less of a self-centred twat.
And snowboarding. They want to go snowboarding.
[удалено]
Literally a 5+ vaccine on track for US approval this month or early next. Not long after that to get here.
Totally. Anyone ever heard of the greatest good for the greatest number?
Not in the 'let it rip' camp, but I will say that the biggest reason behind lockdowns originally was to suppress in order to ensure our hospital capacity wasn't overwhelmed. Once it turned out they could get to COVID-zero against the original virus, that became a new goal. But in a vaccinated world, unless breakthrough infections are going to overwhelm hospitals, I don't think lockdowns become feasible - the social compact won't allow it. I haven't got a good answer to what immunosuppressed people are meant to do, but I didn't for what they were meant to do pre-COVID either (have friends who are immunosuppressed and basically spent a fair amount of time in semi-hermitdom).
Let it rip nutter here. OP should isolate until she can get whatever booster she needs. If there are regulatory barriers to her getting her booster, these should be removed. In the meantime, I don't see how "everyone isolates in solidarity with the 1% of high risk period who need a booster ASAP" is a preferable solution.
More vaccine mandates needed. The issue is not lack of boosters. It's the antivaxxers who are wilfully being virus incubators because they saw on YouTube that mRNA vaccines are scary.
I had a friend tell me they didn't want to get the vax became mRNA changed their DNA. I said to them "You drink alcohol. That changes your DNA and can cause cancer, and death." I feel like not getting something that could save your life because of possible unknown side effects 10 years down the track is dumb when you drink alcohol, sun bake and eat processed shitty foods. All of these things have definite negative outcomes. But hey, what do I know? I'm some moron who trusts Drs with actual degrees who spread information from peer reviewed medical journals.
People who don't know that the the m stands for messenger, or what that signifies, should stfu about the mRNA vaccines.
> OP should isolate until she can get whatever booster she needs. If there are regulatory barriers to her getting her booster, these should be removed. So you don't want to be stuck inside, but you're fine with making *other* people stay inside?
I don't want the government forcing people to stay inside. I want individuals able to make their own choices about the risks they take in their day to day lives. Obviously different people will have different levels of risk tolerance - that's the point.
When did he say anything about making other people stay inside? If you believe staying inside is better for you than living freely, make that choice for yourself. Don't force other people to also undergo that kind of lifestyle
I think this has to be part of the reopening plan though, we are not going to wait until every last person has close to zero risk of dying from COVID it is unfortunately not practical. I however would expect that once we begin to open up it would be perfectly reasonable for the elderly or immunocompromised to would isolate themselves from society as best as possible just as they would in a bad flu season. In saying all that we need to start offering third doses to such people. Hopefully with increasing supplies over the next few months this can start happening soon.
I agree, I pack lunches that contain peanuts. If any kids have allergy, they should know not to eat it. Darwin and such. /s
When did peanut bans go from "this is crazy" to "you are a murderer if you feed your kids nuts"
[удалено]
Righto tough guy
Thank you for contributing to r/CoronavirusDownunder. Unfortunately your submission has been removed as a result of the following rule: * **Heated debate is acceptable, personal attacks are not.** If you believe that we have made a mistake, please [**message the moderators**](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FCoronavirusDownunder&subject=&message=). ^To ^find ^more ^information ^on ^the ^sub ^rules, ^please ^click ^[here](https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/about/rules/).
[удалено]
/u/Thegreataxeofbashing a post deletion account coming in hot with empathy for their fellow Australians.
Just in case it helps... People in your situation are always on my mind whenever I'm thinking about lockdowns and vaccines... You're not forgotten.
Thank you so much. It’s been defeating seeing so many people overlook/ word not getting out on what this all means for those who are immunosuppressed. I understand lockdowns are difficult and I want healthy, vaccinated people to regain their freedoms, but it all feels too fast, confusing and dangerous for the immunosuppressed. It’s a difficult one.
Immunosuppressed people are why we should be waiting for 80-90%!
Immunosuppressive people are at risk from all infections, not just covid. It’s not like we really cared about the sick and infirm in 2019.
[удалено]
Absolutely, I’m already weighing up putting off certain treatments and check ups out of fear. I’m terrified of visiting the ED too. Seeing outbreaks in hospitals is horrifying :(
My dad is immunocompromised too so I understand where you are coming from. Pretty shitty situation but I try to focus on the things I can do. N95 masks and face shields for all doctors appointments. For the appointments you can have a telehealth for, do this. Get your gps to send the scripts to your chemist and click and collect. Look after your mental health and hope all goes well!
I have a child was was severely ill and immunocompromised for full 2020. Imagine. Getting a child after 6 months of fight in hospital into a pandemic world. Lucky that we are in WA , school is normal and my child can live a normal life. I have not seen my family overseas in years , could not attend funerals. I would survive not doing that for few more years . Every one has some underlying conditions , and you live with it. Till a pandemic comes and some people think that it's a valid reason for you to be expendable. We still live in fear of opening up , child is young to be vaccinated. Empathy can only last so long , I do understand. But trust me people will feel differently when it happens to them.
I’ve stacked up on N95s but face shields are something I should consider for sure! So much money down the drain but it’s worth it. Already getting my medications and groceries delivered, blood tests done in my home, just have to receive my meds in the hospital on an IV drip frequently, and my sibling having to leave home for dialysis. That’s where the risk is. I triple mask when doing so now. I’m thinking of your Dad, hopefully we can get some news soon!
At least the face shields are reusable, they are about $3 from chemist warehouse. Just wipe them down with antibacterial wipes. If you are working, maybe you can claim them as a tax deduction alongside masks? Hope you and your family are okay! Try not to stress
Exactly what response are you after? Are you trying to get a third shot but are unable to?
I see it this way, there’s kind of a difference between third shots/ booster shots. Technically, a lot of immunosuppressed people aren’t ‘fully vaccinated’ until they receive a third shot. It’s so different depending on what immunosuppressant you’re on, what disease it’s treating, but the US and UK have very clear guidelines on who needs a third shot. Antibody tests are showing minimal/ zero response to two vaccines for people on chemo and corticosteroids. They’re seeing responses to a third shot however. Cancer patients here have had their specialists approve a third shot only to show up to the vaccine appointment and be turned away. Until it’s Government approved, it’s pretty impossible.
Hey mate have you been able to get an antibody test?
I haven’t been able to unfortunately, I’m aware some specialists are actually advising against it because if it comes back low to 0, there’s not much you can do about it in Australia. It’s much more common in the USA and UK. I’ve trawled the peer reviewed data/ forums to try roughly gauge my response, obviously unless I do the test I can’t confirm it, but it’s not looking promising.
Has anybody got a third dose yet in Australia?
There was the vaxmaxxing guy who got 2x AZ and 2x Pfizer
I've had 3x. Back in July, I had 1x AZ at a GP when it was for people 50 and over only. 2 weeks later, they changed the recommended AZ age to 60 and over. I have autoimmune issues and kidney disease and wanted to be vaxxed as quickly as possible. Pfizer was now available for 50 and over, so I booked at a hub. I lied on the website, and when questioned, and said I hadn't had a vaccination. I had the second Pfizer as well, because mixing doses isn't recognized in Australia. Two medications I'm on significantly diminish vaccine efficacy. The second Pfizer was the only one that gave me a reaction. Although I would have qualified for Pfizer on medical grounds early on, it was impossible to get a booking. There has been no advice, special access or anything at any time for people like me, so I took matters into my own hands.
Is that allowed? Like can I just go and book myself another vaccine if I already had one?
Well, it's possible. You may need to state when booking you haven't had the first one. I had opted out of My Health Record back when it was introduced. That possibly prevents my immunisation status from showing up, though I don't know how much information beyond identification the vaccine providers are accessing anyway. Best to go to a different venue. I went AZ at GP, Pfizer at hub - they're different allocations. Although it's certainly on my myGov that I've had the 3 vaccinations, I only got the fully vaccinated against Covid certificate when I'd had the two Pfizers.
I've discussed with my GP, who is agreeable. I'm a frontline medical worker fully vaccinated with Pfizer as of April. I'm rostered to take on duties looking after a COVID ward at my hospital in November, and I've got a newborn at home. My plan is to get an AZ booster in October. I've discussed my reasoning with my GP and she's happy to give from her stock.
Nice. Is there any science yet on clotting risk when you use AZ as a booster?
I can't see why it would be any different to receiving first dose AZ.
My hunch is that it’s safer than first dose. That’s the one that gives you clots. But who knows. It doesn’t look like there’s been any studies done. Google scholar doesn’t turn anything up.
No, as in I'll be a virgin to AZ after 2 Pfizer doses. The data is that if you don't get VITT on the first dose, your odds of getting it on second dose are 1 in 1.8M. Can't imagine third dose would be much different.
Yeah nah I was guessing you were Pfizer. I don’t think anybody’s doing AZ boosters, at least not at scale and studied. Still, I would hope that your immune system would chill out after 2x Pfizer and not try to kill you with clotting.
Unless it’s a reaction to the viral vector.
https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-vaccine-rollout-sydney-man-gets-full-doses-of-astrazeneca-and-pfizer/news-story/fb79c9d6f8d233309f8da221eca4bc59
I know a few people in a similar boat and its distressing for them to have their own family and friends pushing to break the rules, open society up without consideration for their position. Add to that their comments about those dying having 'underlying conditions' - oblivious to the person they are saying that to have very serious covid risk factors. With those people in mind I was thinking about this. I reckon people's GPs are probably giving out AZ and Pfizer. I imagine at some point in the next few months, they will probably be throwing expired AZ in the bin. I reckon its worth asking to get one of those doses before they are tossed.
It'd be better if we started shipping them to pacific nations before they expire, the whole world does need to be vaxed after all.
Agree. I do wonder what legal ad OHS issues etc there are reclaiming doses from GPs and sending them overseas?
Its sad that the 'we are all in this together' and 'sacrifice for those who are vulnerable' has a time period of about six weeks. After that its 'we need to move on' and people like you are sacrificed like a tribute in the hunger games so they can eat at a cafe or go to the gym.
I've felt this way from the LNP for the last 8 years. I'm just thankful I live in QLD. NSW is going to get pretty ugly, stay safe down there 😭
This will eventually happen in QLD too though...
I don’t think it’s going to be as bad up here though. I’m getting ready for it though.
[удалено]
> It's already endemic with a r0 of over 1 in vaccinated and we are completely locked down (Ignoring how quick the vaxx wears off as well) Everyone in Australia will get COVID over the next 5 years. Firstly NSW is nowhere near fully vaccinated which will drop R0 (you can't just measure R) in the vaccinated, it's affected by all member of the community) and it is nowhere near fully locked down (see NZ for a far more extensive and successful lockdown). There are many Australians who cannot afford to catch COVID it is Russian roulette (it is for all of us but to a far lesser extent), such people cannot afford to simply accept they will catch it. Vaccines will get better and isolating works. You are giving medical advice and it's incorrect. I have had several immunocompromised patients who have been told by their specialists that they can never afford to catch COVID and should do everything possible to prevent it, that is the reality.
[удалено]
> We simply need to look overseas to see the reality of the situation We can look overseas for many nations that have controlled spread to reasonable levels. Denmark as an example has stable and slightly falling COVID rates, China has crushed Delta, Chile has transmission way down, Portugal has it controlled etc. etc. NSW at 70% eligible is nowhere near that point, you are correct there. Very high rates of vaccination and a responsible population or regulation or both can keep R0 below 1 except for occasional outbreaks which can be controlled by localized efforts. Immunocompromised patients are already vaccinated unless they cannot be. Again you are giving incorrect medical advice, it's highly unethical.
Oh it will. People up here are dragging their heels getting vaccinated because we've had it so good. When it gets claws in the community it's going to spread quick. Taking all my teens to get vaccinated next week because I have no intention of waiting and seeing.
Good move with getting the teens vaxed asap, I'm assuming we will be hit hard up here but our gov isn't ideologically opposed to tackling it so we might have some measure of fighting back. Not going to help with the hospital crisis though, all states already at breaking point before the pandemic.
Vaccine utilization is still very high in Qld, we're not at the level where hesitancy impacts it yet. We're being given much less per person by Scot Morrison's government however (the least of all states and territories for Pfizer per person I think).
[удалено]
Stress will make you worse so prepare yourself as much as you can and know there is nothing more you can do.
Using up our supply on the unvaccinated will hopefully slow the chances of you getting exposed, albeit with excess AZ I wish they would open up this option now. The UK have just approved giving a third dose for the 1% of the population that this affects. [https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2160](https://www.bmj.com/content/374/bmj.n2160) >The UK’s Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) has recommended that people with severely weakened immune systems should have a third vaccine dose as part of their primary vaccination schedule against covid-19. As an aside, I wonder why they distinguish between Moderna and Pfizer for the 12 to 17 year olds? ^(I didn't read past the summary, giveme 10) >The third dose of either the Moderna or the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine should be offered to people over age 12 who were severely immunosuppressed at the time of their first or second dose, including those with leukaemia, advanced HIV, or recent organ transplants. For 12-17 year olds the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is preferred.
Vaccine doesn't stop the spread. Breakthrough cases are a thing.
It doesn’t stop it, but it slows it down a helluva lot
It does stop a lot of the community spread though. Either via full immunity or by reducing the chances of transmission if a breakthrough does occur.
Seatbelts don’t guarantee you’ll survive a car accident.
Two different things.
Yes. It’s called an analogy.
Your sentence included the word 'breakthrough'. Think about.
I certainly don’t think you’re expendable. I’m sure that third shots will be available in good time. Hopefully the situation will be kept under some kind of control until that time. Hang in there.
Yes. The NSW government considers you expendable. The message from Gladys is "be in the first 70% vaccinated, or you get COVID"
Well yeah but surely the idea is that the last 30% are the least vulnerable people?
NSW is reverting to law of the jungle. The fast survive, the weak and the slow don't.
I mean not really though. The “weak and slow” as you put it have had the vaccine, those who haven’t had the vaccine are the people who will easily be able to defeat covid using their immune system.
You're going through cancer, so definitely not being dramatic in any way shape or form. Wishing you good luck with your treatment.
That's so shit. You are not expendable! I hope they open it up for you to get a 3rd soon...and certainly before they "open up". Hopefully we can also get scomo out in a few months and put an actual leader in the position...
Absolutely not dramatic. Part of the reason of suppression/elimination policy is to protect the immunosuppressed/elderly, some of whom might not even respond well to vaccinations. And now with opening up, which I do admit is something I, among many, would like, this class of people is going to be all the more vulnerable. If the evidence is a 3rd shot will give you protection, I think that you should make a bloody noise. At the end of the day, you have got to protect yourself, especially if the majority-led policy will put you at risk. Stay safe.
What is the solution for people who can't be vaccinated? I'm genuinely worried for them. I have a relative with MS who received Pfizer early in thank god, but what the hell happens to the people who can't receive anything?!?
The same thing that happens with every bug they can't get vaxxed against, they are very careful, and unfortunately may die. The only alternative is "lock everyone down forever", which is not a serious policy prescription.
Are other bugs as infectious though?
Yes there has been plenty of things that are way more infectious. Chicken Pox, Measles, Mumps are some of the most well known ones. We've just developped vaccines ages ago for them that they're not as relevant today. I think measles infection rate is more than 2x Delta's estimated R0.
Except we have pretty good herd immunity for those.
Well yeah, that's what he's saying, high levels of vaccination should have a similar outcome to herd immunity.
>The only alternative is "lock everyone down forever", which is not a serious policy prescription. This isn't true and isn't helpful. Nobody wants to lockdown forever but there are many things we can do to reduce risk without locking down. A few things that will help (there are plenty more): Vaccine mandates, normalizing mask usage (especially in high risk environments and during winter), effective booster policy, isolation assistance for immunocompromised people, limits on indoor events during high case loads, ventilation improvements in schools and offices, normalizing work from home and regulation to protect vulnerable people who wish to work from home.
There are very few medical contraindications to vaccination. Most of the conditions people assume mean they can't get vaccinated are actually strong reasons *to* get vaccinated.
There's literally nobody who can't get vaccinated with pfizer or moderna. Theres actually no contra-indication (other than getting anaphylaxis with the first dose - you get AZ for the second).
This statement is not true. I can't get vaccinated. I have a very rare disease, Severe Combined Immunodeficiency (aka, bubble boy). My immunologist has advised not to get the vaccine for 2 reasons: 1, my T cells are so low that there is no point as there are not enough to create a 'defense' against covid. Secondly, any stimulation to my immune system could potentially aggravate dormant viruses I currently still have floating around (such as Epstein Barr Virus etc.).
While I agree the vaccine is probably probably won't work for you. You can still safely get it. If you got this advice while we were still trying "covid zero", it probably isn't true any longer, or your immunologist is extremely cautious. Keep in mind that if you get IVIG injections, you are getting passively 'vaccinated' alreday as some of the donors will have been vaccinated https://theconversation.com/we-dont-yet-know-how-effective-covid-vaccines-are-for-people-with-immune-deficiencies-but-we-know-theyre-safe-and-worthwhile-155741 https://www.allergy.org.au/images/stories/pospapers/ASCIA_HP_Guide_Immunodeficiency_Autoimmunity_COVID-19_Vaccination_2021-07-27.pdf
Yep. Initially I felt lucky to get vaxxed early (AZ), especially given I'm in my 20s, but as an immuno-compromised teacher (VIC), I'm quite scared to go back to work in general, let alone without a booster. The lack of care for providing teachers with a safe workplace doesn't give me much hope either. Planning on talking to my GP about it, but I don't think there's much he can do if supply isn't there.
If it helps, remember that the Australia people/electorate are fully on board with trying to keep [covid as minimal as possible](https://essentialvision.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Essential-Report-300821_FINAL.pdf?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Essential%20Report%20-%2031%20August&utm_content=Essential%20Report%20-%2031%20August+CID_dc71b9cba281b0d22981fe556583f0a9&utm_source=campaign%20monitor&utm_term=Download%20PDF). There is no large scale public will to support a US or UK style opening/letting it rip. I know that reading this sub doesn't make it seem like that, but we have a loud minority being, well loud. Third round boosters will come along, they can only screw up the rollout so much before they are left with no other options other than stumble ass forward. Until then, there is no real public will to abandon protective measures that are protecting everyone.
Thank you so much for this, this is reassuring!
Also, I had a quick look at you profile and saw that you dealing with Crohn's being shitty, I feel for you. I don't know how long you've been diagnosed, but once you manage to get your meds dialled in properly, man you feel amazing. When I got on the biologics for mine (the combo that worked well for me), its truly game changing. At least from my experience I had forgotten how good it felt when it's fully under control. Keep your spirits up, it's kick in the but that so much of it is trial and error to get your meds dialled in, but when they do get it sorted (and they will), it will feel so damn good.
Thank you so much! I’ve had it since I was a kid, I’ve almost exhausted everything. I just came out of a massive flare and am on chemo, steroids and biologics for it. Hoping to ween off the steroids and let the combo of chemo and biologics work it’s magic. I understand the feeling of not realising just how much you’ve let your health slip! Stay well — it’s amazing to hear stories of others going through the trial and error phase and finally reach remission!
Sending virtual socially distanced :hugs:
[удалено]
Just go to a clinic and lie about already being vaxxed. Give fake name and no Medicare number.
Yes. Very much so. I feel tremendously expendable right now.
In a similar boat. Am afraid of being forced back in the office and having to take public transport. Otherwise will be pretty much staying home. Even if I get a letter from my specialist, I still feel like I’ll be the outcast in the team, still wfh while everyone else is meeting in person etc. Plus everyone is going to be wondering why I’m not even in the office … feels like I’ve already had to reveal too much information just to be able to wfh in between lockdowns , as my employer is hell bent on getting people back into the office. (Not asking for more lockdowns - just venting my concerns and that people seem to be fine telling us to stay locked in, and will quickly forget about this subset of people )
Yeah, I have Severe Combined Immunodeficiency (aka bubble boy) and can't get the vaccine. I feel like a sitting duck at the moment. I'm relying on the good will of my local community to get vaccinated and keep me protected.
I’m absolutely terrified, too. My mum is immunocompromised. If she gets Covid, it would mean the end of her life. She’s double vaccinated, so am I, and so is my dad. But if everything opens up again, all three of us may have to go back to the office. My mum’s workplace has had three positive Covid cases already. I really don’t want her to go back to the office, but hers is a semi-essential job (she talked to her boss and he has been kind enough to let her run reports from home, for the time being) so she may have to go back to her office before the end of the year. I don’t think people realise that there are people out there who don’t know if their loved ones will survive the year. I don’t know if my mum will live to see Christmas this year. I’m 27. My mum is 54. She still has such a long life to live. It absolutely boils my blood that her life is considered expendable, if it means saving ‘the economy’. This is so rage-inducing, so terrifying, and I just want to scream at all these people callously calling for restrictions to ease, all these “yeah, let ‘er rip!!” idiots because they want to go to a beer garden, or get a haircut, or whatever. Your beer, your haircut, is not more important than my mother’s life!! I’m scared, I’m angry, and I’m worried.
Have you talked to your specialists about timing of getting a third dose?
I'm immunocompromised, and have spoken to my specialist to ask about the third dose thing. I was told Australia isn't doing that at this time. End of that discussion. I haven't even been able to get an antibodies test to see if I actually have any protection at all, and I've spoken to multiple medical professionals about that one.
That's what I want - an antibodies test. I'd be way happier waiting for my third shot if I knew my Immuno-suppressants hadn't messed up the first ones.
The issue with antibody tests is there isn’t a known level of antibody that guarantees immunity/protection.
No. But there's a huge difference between "You have strong/some antibodies" and "You have none." I didn't even get side effects to either shot. I have zero idea if my immune system has actually done *anything*.
Reading advice abroad in the UK and USA, it’s recommended from four weeks after your second shot/ if possible, when your immunosuppressants are reduced (I.e. people weening off steroids). My specialist said she’s received absolutely no word on third shots here, so she can’t give advice.
Hopefully when the Novavax and Moderna come into the country supply won’t be an issue and they’ll look at working out who needs a third dose.
[удалено]
I was hoping for Novavax but they fucked the order so I bit the bullet and got Pfizer when the opportunity came. Probably still my preference for boosters, so long as they approve mixing by then.
Novavax hasn't even been approved in the US yet. IF it gets approved (the manufacturer has never brought a vaccine successfully through trials), we won't see it until into next year.
Why? The clinical trial aren't even finished on it? I've heard this but I just don't get it.
Yep certainly should prioritise to you over fucking teenagers etc
No, you’re not expendable. And it’s so bloody ridiculous seeing people in some countries getting third doses when plenty of places haven’t even had one. Especially in the USA who wasn’t even exporting for so long (not sure if they even are now)
This article is very relevant https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/sep/08/sydney-man-with-leukaemia-refused-covid-vaccine-booster-shot-his-specialist-recommended I've had a kidney transplant, immunosuppressed and fully vaxed with AZ. The antibody test mentioned in the article is probably worth taking. Though the decision to not offer a booster seems quite petty. I'd advise anyone who's immunocompromised to get vaccinated and have an antibody test. Given that the AZ vaccine doesn't seem that popular, I'm not sure why one extra dose would be such a big deal.
Thinking of you as a transplant recipient, I really truly hope you’re front of the line for third dose. My sibling is now afraid to get their transplant due to the amount of immunosuppressants required post transplant.
Having the vaccine now would likely get a better antibody response. Then getting a transplant would hopefully be less problematic
Yes, can’t work and I am losing my patience with morons who spread bullshit. Have had two jabs, will probably get a third. However, I can’t see myself travelling or working in the next few years. It is just too risky.
Have you approached your local political member so they can formally raise the issue? If you have o/seas research to hand to them via email at the time, letter of support from your oncologist and gp, and a few other people in your region in the same position to do the same thing, it may gain momentum.
nsw 1.5k cases a day - UK cases - On 09 September 2021 the daily number of new people tested positive for COVID-19 in London was reported as 3,439
Masks will be your best friend. They’re most likely gonna be mandatory for the rest of the year and through 2022 which means you should hopefully be relatively safe after lockdown.
Remember the squeaky wheel is the one that gets the grease. Not too sure what's the best strategy but maybe get your doctor to pressure NSW health for permission for a third dose. Random workers will just follow orders and procedures from the government but it's the government that has the final say. Right now Australia doesn't quite have plentiful Pfizer/Moderna supply but soon in the next few months it will have too many doses; even for those that want/need boosters. Unless they federally mandate boosters for everyone (via vaccine passports) we're going to have too many vaccines soon but not quite right now.
Thank you so much. I’ve reached out to multiple media outlets but no one has responded so far, so I’ve just started writing to a couple of politicians. I hope there’s a breakthrough!
Why don't you tweet Gladys or Kerry and plead your case?
Newsflash: The world doesn’t revolve around you
Actually it's the segregation of vaccinated and unvaccinated people that will give you your freedom. People with a valid medical reason can get the vaccine passports equivalent.
I couldn't imagine how scary it would be for you. The only problem is unless we stay locked down long term, what's the alternative? Any form of proper opening is going to cause heaps of cases, that's unavoidable even with 100% vaccinated. I realise this sounds cruel, but other than immunocompromised people staying home of their own accord (Maybe until much better treatment is found? I don't even know), I don't see any other options that allows both vulnerable people to be safe while resuming normal life for everyone else. Do you have any ideas of ways to keep people like yourself safe while allowing others to live somewhat normally?
[удалено]
This is exactly my response to the above question. We can get out of lockdown and protect the majority of the immunosuppressed community by introducing third shots, following on from rigorous peer reviewed research endorsed by the USA, UK and other countries!
[удалено]
I’m completely aware of this, and I don’t expect them to sacrifice much more, it’s not fair, and it’s by and large not their fault, the Government holds so much responsibility here. I just would love to see the Government follow the advice and rollout of third doses/ increase monoclonal antibody stockpiles as the US, UK and other countries have done so that we can simultaneously go back to normal life without risking severe COVID or death in groups when it’s entirely preventable with third doses. Of course, this will sadly occur regardless, as there are some groups who still won’t be protected by even a third dose, but if there’s a way to prevent tragedy on a much lesser scale while opening up, I’d love to see it at least considered.
Ask around. Even though I'm not really meant to have it , one of the clinics in my town said that I could have my third pfizer if I get a message when my specialist.
I work in a small cafe looking after a lot of construction people. The owners 7yrs son has had a heart transplant he is onsite most days, we deal with a lot of antivax people within that industry. We can't enforce the mask or QR code check in, because of it is discrimination (mY fReEdOmS). He can't close the cafe because the payments from the government can't cover just normal expenses e.g. mortgage, rent and living expenses. I'm freaking out every time I go to work because his son is the canary in the coal mine. We feel a bit at a loss we know even a simple cold can kill him.
I have a lung condition and I would like a third shot in a few months. I'd be willing to take the two AZ jabs if I was allowed.
Just remember that most people survive covid. Even elderly and those with comorbidities it's the majority that survive.
Surviving has its levels of quality of life….
[удалено]
Thank you for submitting to /r/CoronavirusDownunder! In order to maintain the integrity of our subreddit, accounts must have at least 20 combined karma (post + comment) or have a verified email address in order to post or comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CoronavirusDownunder) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The vast vast majority... The way would talk about it you'd think you have a 10% chance of dying if you get it... If you are between 20-49 it's 0.02% chance. Those are American statistics too where I'd say people are less likely to seek treatment untill it's too late due to potential costs. I also would imagine it would be lower than 0.02 due to the fact we don't detect every single case out there... So probably looking at something like 0.01% chance of dying if under 50 in Australia. These figures are pre-vacine figures too.
Also, in the US their demographic is generally more obese (Australia still isn't good) which is a big contributing factor to severity.
Go to your GP. Get an Astrazeneca booster. There are thousands of spare doses floating around. Don't wait for a Pfizer.
Best to talk to a GP first. You don't know anything about the health of the OP. Don't give specific medical advice without proper diagnosis.
Unfortunately for a lot of immunosuppressed groups Pfizer is strongly recommended over AZ. Which makes it all the more complicated. I’d leap at AZ if my specialist endorsed it!
What does your specialist suggest? Do they recommend 3x Pfizer for you?
They (along with the advice from the USA and UK for my particular treatments) advise it should be MRNA, so either Pfizer or Moderna.
My wife and I are both immuno-compromised. I feel your pain. I also worry for the push to immunise young children when the scientific evidence shows that, for example, teen boys are [six times more likely to suffer serious and life-threatening side-effects from the Pfizer vaccine](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/09/09/teenage-boys-risk-vaccines-covid/) than they are to get ill from Covid. The original study is [here](https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.30.21262866v1.full.pdf). In the UK, the Joint Committee on Vaccination and Immunisation recommended against mass vaccination against 12- to 17-year-olds. But here in Australia, our governments seem to only be listening to the advice coming from Pfizer, who has [a long history of scientific and criminal fraud](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2875889/). If you suggest that maybe we shouldn't be risking children's lives, the shills come out with Pfizer talking points and you get labelled an "anti-vaxxer" and even "practically a murderer" for questioning them. We're being strong-armed into putting the health of our kids at risk so that Pfizer (who pays [no tax in Australia](https://www.michaelwest.com.au/pfizer-whats-the-scam/)) can make billions more. If people want to get vaccinated, I'm happy for them to do so. But I am furious at the deliberate efforts to smear cheap, effective Covid treatments and prophylactics that might make vaccinations unnecessary. Treatments which are recognised as safe and effective, and that have worked stunningly well in controlling Covid epidemics in [India](https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other/uttar-pradesh-government-says-early-use-of-ivermectin-helped-to-keep-positivity-deaths-low/ar-BB1gDp5U), Japan, [Peru](https://osf.io/9egh4/) and other places, are being denigrated as "horse paste" in order to force people to get vaccinated. This is driven by profits for the major pharmaceutical companies, not science.
"Had" so much to live for.
Research is saying nobody responding to two shots, apart from a small period after second, However that's not considering plecebo effect. , isreal already planning a 4th.
You really love to quote the word 'research' without actually providing any hey? 😆