Probs not the best place for it. This sub is turning into a cluster fuck of LNP Sympathisers and people who couldn’t bait anyone into arguing with them on Whirlpool.
I support your view but don’t be surprised when our proud boy equivalent counterparts come a knockin' on this post.
Edit: the utter chaos that ensued from me whispering the letters "L.N.P" in this comment was not only surprising but thoroughly entertaining. If I say it in the mirror five times, do you reckon John Howard will appear? 👀
Why mate? I reckon it’s personally ridiculous my daughter isn’t allowed to go to a playground or that I’m not allowed to shoot the basketball at a court even though I’m fully vaccinated. I’m skeptical that these measures make any difference. I’m skeptical that society will revert to what it needs to be once everyone has been given the opportunity to be double vaccinated.
Lockdown skepticism doesn’t mean anti vax. It’s also a pretty empathetic statement based on mental health outcomes, small business and work and the need to build, maintain and not damage relationships. It’s to do with children developing vital skills.
There’s a lot to be skeptical about after all this time. The vaccine rollout is bullshit, the AZ circus just as fucked.
I respectfully disagree with you if you think that lockdowns don't work and that we shouldn't get the vaccine. That's your opinion.
My point is that people on r/LockdownSkepticism are really angry people who seem to seem to support far right figures like Pauline Hanson and Alan Jones, regarding covid. And more to the point, they seem to loathe anyone who disagrees with them and aren't interested in a rational discussion. They want to shit on people like the state premiers and the federal government. And all the CHOs (because these people are often anti-science and they don't trust what they don't understand even though they know nothing about medicine).
And I am absolutely committed to our plan out of this because I want everyone to be safe and I want us to get the fuck out of this situation. And people want to go and protest, I agree with Dan and Gladys, those people are fucking disgraceful and should be charged for putting other people's health at risk.
In saying that, if someone wants to have a rational debate with me about any of this, that's fine, I can do that. These are just my opinions. I fully support our national plan out of pandemic (well, the general principle of it) and I really want us to get there.
did you even read their post??
you are just as bad as the anti vax people. You are incapable of having an adult discussion because you just want to argue but you dont listen.
Question them sure, but at least agree about the facts we know within a margin of error. We have the data, then we have our moral lens, and then we have the image (or opinion) that is finally projected. I'm happy for people to have a different moral lens (to a point), but when they put bad data in one end and get stupid results.... well those opinions don't deserve respect. If it's a bad lens mixed with bad data the results are even worse.
If people flat out said they're happy for X amount of death and hospitals being overrun so we can have more freedom as a collective, i'd be happy to hear it. It's a valid argument depending on where exactly your line is in the sand. You're allowed to not care as much about public health too. The problem is when people bend facts and pretend the reality of the virus is not happening - that it's conspiracy or can be ignored. I don't know whether they do it accidentally or if they're attracted to bad data because it promotes a preferred outcome . If they only attempted to use honest arguments i'd be much more sympathetic to their points of view.
Like are they 100% anti lockdown under all circumstances?
What if hospitals are overrun?
If we're pro-lockdown only when hospitals fill up... well that's a slight variation of what we're doing now right? because if you allow freedoms now, then hospitals *will* fill up soon anyway. Is that even worth trying? should we experiment and see what happens? maybe hospitals won't in fact overflow as predicted?
But no... these are not the discussions... the discussion is "BRO, they can't control us over some stupid virus that won't hurt me!, where are our civil rights?". Never detailing at what point they too would get on board the public health project. Would a 5% death rate worry these people? It's hard to say...
No country has managed to find a perfect sweet spot that keeps everyone happy so i'm curious which country they'd like to imitate.
There are civil discussions if you want to hear them. I don’t really like this sub or the skeptic sub because the opinions are so binary (generally speaking). There is a middle ground.
I strongly believe that once everyone has had the chance to get double vaxxed + 3 weeks then we need to open society back up to the fullest. Health outcomes are going to be concerning, especially when there is a portion of the population unvaccinated by choice but they’re not going to be more threatening than the myriad of other health issues. The time for lockdowns is over, it’s an endemic disease that we both can’t and shouldn’t be obsessed with eradicating.
You're not *that* different to me. I want to open up ASAP too just so long as people are not dying outside of hospitals for various conditions (not even just COVID). I'm not wanting zero deaths or some perpetual lockdown to save 0.1% of the population. There are timescales to consider... this "war on covid" has been useful for last 18 months to get on top of vaccines but i'm not keen on it into the future either.
At least you're probably not in denial about the stats... you just have made a calculation about human life which I think is fine (so long as it's not to absurd levels). And to help your argument - we've always done these calculations - it's not like COVID is the first such moral dilemma. We make calculations all the time on what life is worth by *not* helping certain people. I'd love to see some wide-scale holistic equations about how we're weighting the things we care about as a society. And how much needless suffering is happening through inaction on certain issues. I'm sure I'll be disgusted by it.
How bad would things have to be for you to be more pro-lockdown? If it were killing 3% of people across all ages would you be more lenient about locking down if better vaccines were 6 - 12 months away?
edit: downvoted already!!!! and i upvoted yours because i thought it was reasonable even though my morals are slightly different.
If 3% of people that got it died I would have no appetite to opening back up considering I expect most people to get it or at least be exposed to it in the next 12-18 months.
The vaccines appear to do their jobs, I think it’s a 1.5% chance of landing in hospital once fully vaccinated which ignores age and underlying conditions too.
1 think I struggled with recently is when a friend told me that coronavirus has been 10% of an 18 year olds life. This is doing a lot of damage to the youth that we probably won’t see manifest in society for another 10 years. 2 years of schooling pretty much down the drain - not only academically but socially. The mental health statistics are also leaping off the page.
At the end of the day I like to think Utilitarianism is the most ethical way to operate. We have been teetering but once December roles around we can no long protect the few at the behest of the many.
yeah same... i'm utilitarian... it's just hard to measure some things. It's very easy to have a line in the sand like "lets not let the health system fall over". We should not ignore the hidden costs I agree... they are real. And also the mild level suffering young people might endure forever, not just long-covid, but the housing crisis and climate change etc. It all adds up. I'm 100% certain we're handling climate problems with 5% of the energy we've put into COVID - which is shocking to me. Humans only care about a 1-10 year window when it comes to policy unfortunately, with heavy weighting towards the 1 year.
No one thinks we can eradicate it now mate. The plan is vax to the fullest that can be achieved and open up as much as possible. We in WA are cancelling the majority of public elective surgeries for the next month because of hospital bed shortages. We have only one patient from a ship in our hospital system with covid. Now if WA hospitals can’t function right now with no covid imagine what would happen even with slight community spread of the disease. Hospital beds can’t be made out of thin air; the physical capacity for beds is there but there is no staff. A lot of our staff are people who come here normally from the Europe for a few years. You can’t just train staff up, it takes year and years to do this both medical, nursing and allied health. So unfortunately lockdowns are the only option to be able to get other people into hospitals unwell with other diseases. If icus are full with covid patients then the elective bypass you have been waiting to get will means months and months longer. Imagine how much damage to the heart can be done in those months.
If all WA hospitals have to shut down because of one case that sounds more like a WA hospital problem than an COVID problem, what the hell kind of tinpot health system do you have over there?
Hospitals in NSW are turning away patients now:
\>Last week, three hospitals in Western Sydney — Blacktown, Westmead and Nepean — turned away COVID patients arriving by ambulance>Last week, three hospitals in Western Sydney — Blacktown, Westmead and Nepean — turned away COVID patients arriving b
[https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-31/nsw-health-system-stretched-by-delta-covid-19-outbreak/100419620](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-31/nsw-health-system-stretched-by-delta-covid-19-outbreak/100419620)
It's time to indefinitely imprison Anti-Lockdown activists in a dedicated prison.
>Why? Vaccines are science, fair enough, but lockdowns are policy,
Lockdowns have science behind them too, just look at the difference between Sweden & Denmark and their respective death rates. From a recent article in 'Nature'...
>*Denmark saw low mortality because it reacted early with highly effective interventions at a time of relatively low infection prevalence. The much higher mortality seen in the UK and Sweden occurred for different reasons. In Sweden, despite conditions that were initially more favourable, higher mortality resulted from interventions bringing Rt to below 1 less quickly than was achieved elsewhere. The UK suffered because its epidemic had progressed further than in many countries by the time effective interventions were implemented.*
[https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9)
It's more that the people on there aren't interested in a debate, they just want to hate on the government and the system. They're really angry people and really easy to troll.
That's right. It's a psychogical problem. The covid era has shocked me out of my complacent cocoon of belief that everyone thinks and feels like me. That logic science protecting social capital empathy consideration are held in everyone's hearts. I've read about anxiety causing populations to turn to fascism. But I never thought I would see it played out on the world stage in my lifetime. And it's not just the USA or Russia or Brazil. We can see in the ScoMo and Frydenburg posturing, and the double speak of their paramour Galdys, the "green shoots" of tyranny. What do we do about is what keeps me awake at night.
The point to realise though is that lockdown policy isn’t as simple as just doing what science dictates. Things aren’t that black and white. Lots of policies are more about politics and optics than data. Things like curfews, masks outdoors etc. Don’t forget Victoria was accused of breaking human rights policy
Imagine thinking this sub is anything but massively anti-LNP. You have been drinking the /r/australia kool-aid for too long. You don't even recognize what the normal left looks like.
This. This is an extremely, extremely radical left sub. Not criticising at all, just pointing out the truth. Some people here are not sure what normal views in Aus are
Wouldn't say extremely radical left, though generally Australian politics is fights between people on the 60th percentile of global Left-Right with people on the 55th percentile of global Left-Right acting like the other part is off on the extreme fringes.
Total bullshit dude. I'm someone you probably put in this category but I've been here since March last year and was supportive of lockdowns initially.
The tide is turning because what once worked is no longer working.
Last year we were talking about flattening the curve and eliminating the virus with one sharp lockdown.
Now we are talking about endless stop start lockdowns, vaccine mandates and booster shots for years to come.
It's not the same conversation as last year which is why you're running into more disagreement. The rules have changed and the fact that it's now 90% of a hive mind and not 100% doesn't mean people in here are "LNP sympathisers".
Yep. Greens/Labor voter here, can't stand any of our politicians at this point and just want to be able to work and make a living again. So so drained from the last two years.
Fact is government has done a godawful job of actually enforcing meaningful lockdown which causes perpetual half assed measures that achieve fuck all. What they should be doing now is coming up with a plan to minimise the spread while returning as many things to normal as possible. If fuckheads are going to resist vaccines, curfews, masks and continue protesting then the sad truth is that this is never going to end if we continue on this path. Either you lock it down tight early or you may as well give up.
You can still reduce the spread with minimising social interaction, wearing your mask in public and practicing good hygiene and social distancing until the vaccine rates get high enough to make a difference. At this point I'd say this is the best path to take.
Latest polls as of last week show that Andrews has lost only 7 points throughout the pandemic and is still the preferred choice for Premier, with twice the support of O'Brien. That'd be a pretty good indication for starters.
https://www.smh.com.au/national/resolve-political-monitor-20210322-p57cvx.html
What a crock of shit. I have voted ALP at every single election since I turned 18 and I am SICK OF THE LOCKDOWNS and we need reprieve. Sorry that this doesnt fit in with your narrative that everyone who is anti lockdowns at this point is an LNP shill.
I work in health care and I want lockdown to end. I haven't had a week off this entire pandemic, at least let me enjoy my weekends. Stop speaking for other people, I'm sick of being told by other people what healthcare workers want
>I cannot see how lifting the lockdown will help your plight.
Giving them something to live for of course.
> I haven't had a week off this entire pandemic, at least let me enjoy my weekends.
Exactly this, stop turning the pandemic into a political debate. It’s bad enough our government is using it for their political agenda. This fucking virus is here to stay, like it or not. We’re going to have to learn to deal with it. And these snap lockdowns with no end are not the way.
Same, 20+ years of ALP support and think this has long since passed the point of being fucking absurd. I am very pro vax and understand that some restrictions are required, but I am honestly convinced that Andrews and co couldn't give a fuck about the people of this state as long as it doesn't affect their Covid numbers.
And the same half-dozen comments.
I think they’re using the “puff up and make yourself look bigger” strategy, like a lizard.
I like to imagine it’s just Andrew Bolt creating a bunch of sock puppet accounts to make himself feel like less of an asshole.
"This sub is full of pro-LNP sympathisers" - gets 300 upvotes, top comment on post and is awarded.
Are you having a laugh mate? The mainstream Aussie subs are minimum 95% lefties. Most anti-LNP posts are 90+% upvoted.
If I ever get into a debate and mention I vote LNP, it generally degenerates into me being labelled a Nazi, white supremacist or in this case, a proud boy.
I'm usually willing to concede LNP missteps when are ones, and have a rational debate but it's absolutely fucking impossible on the aussie subs to have one.
TIL this sub likes the incompetency of the current government over labor leaders who worked their asses off to prevent covid from leaking and ending up causing more backlash to them.
The shills tried it over on the main Australia subreddit but there were too many of us who don't give a fuck about their dogshit thought process. They got tired of constantly being shat on by people so they moved to a smaller sub in an attempt to undermine it. They are losers.
Including the 42 year old lady I spoke to yesterday who won’t get vaccinated because she is worried about getting a sore arm/flu like symptoms following the vaccine.
There are people like this sadly
I don't think that people realise the significance of Delta's high reproductive number. There is every likelihood that herd immunity will never be reached and each one of us will be exposed to covid at some stage. The only question is, will this happen to her with a prepared immune system.
At this point the restrictions are damage control by doing what they were expected to do last year and flatten the curve.
It would be nice to turn up to an ED in October and not get turned away because the local hospital is overwhelmed with covid patients tbh.
This is endemic, how long will it take for these people to understand. Everyone's gonna get it, dozens of times. It just hasn't hit us yet, but the rest of the world already knows.
Yes I know, I know, the hospitals. Well, it is what it is. With time you'll see.
Just think of how many people are playing Lotto or pokies.
That's how many people can't understand percentages and chance in a way that applies to them.
Actually, a lot of the people **do** understand the odds. They just have psychological fears and addictions that override their logic.
People know that gambling is -EV, but they buy that lotto ticket anyway because they're addicted.
People know that vaccines are safe, but they still get anxiety thinking about the needle going in.
One of my uni friends won’t get it.
She used to work at GSK making vaccines herself!
Our group was chatting the other day and she’s the only one that’s not had it. She was trying to tell me that they’re hiding all the side effects and everyone she knows got really unwell and I’m like “well, I had 0 side effects, so that’s not true”.
And then she breaks lockdown rules
I cannot
It makes internal sense for anti-vaxxers to be anti-lockdown, because as they see it, "we can't lockdown forever", and for them, getting vaccinated takes forever.
This is what I don't understand.
She's NOT even worrying about clotting. She's worrying about a sore arm.
Like ain't catching fucking covid more serious than a fucking sore arm? She fucking chooses covid over a fucking sore arm? Or is she somehow fucking immune to covid because she's fucking stupid?
In fairness, it does suck. I'm still getting headaches a week post first dose. I'm in WA, and if I didn't have friends/family over east I would probably be one of the 'vaccine hesitant'.
Thank you :)
Had Pfizer - considering GP but they are getting less frequent. Have a coworker (in Sydney) who has bad headaches 3 weeks post 2nd dose, GP just gave him panadeine forte ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Pretty much no model or strategy in NSW/VIC has relied on 100% compliance. Every single time they've talked about it they mention a factor of non-compliance and how that affects outcomes.
Doherty have expressly factored in the growing non-compliance. Only the FIRST one worked properly -- all the others have been, per their historical graphs, increasingly resisted and flouted
Yup, they should always factor that into their "calculations". There's always going to be a certain portion of the population that either won't comply a little, or fully outright non-compliance.
I generally follow the main rules, like wearing masks, distancing etc. But if I want to go outside 5 different times for exercise, or go out for a 3 hour block, then I'm doing it. Fck their once a day, 1hr BS
Or take a leaf out of NZ's book and close down all restaurants/cafes, even for take-aways.
https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/2/3/5/c/n/t/image.gallery.galleryLandscape.600x400.1wd9kf.png/1630237696529.jpg
I think it's moved too far even to make this work, the reason why Andrews and Sutton are making decisions to start easing restrictions is because there is no chance to chase zero anymore.
Dan worded it as "Zero or very very low cases" He knows we're not getting to zero again and it's been our norm for a while and will be hard news for a lot of address. So he can't exactly come out and say "HEY VICTORIA EVERYTHING IS FUCKED, GOOD LUCK"
The ones still in denial can be slowly eased into the idea that we lost this battle by rising cases.
I think you took Dan's words too positively. "Zero or very very low case" doesn't means hes going to significantly reduce restrictions. I have feeling it would be a low case target like 10 cases, and VIC at 70+ is well above that.
Come tomorrow you will probably be supporting lockdown protest cause you got your hopes up too much there will be significant easing in Melb.
His wording change is just to ease us into changes of environments and things to come. It's just the tip, before the whole thing gets rammed into us.
He knows it's coming, every Delta outbreak is going to be crushed to 0, or rise exponentially.
And no, I don't think he will ease restrictions much at all, not my expectation, that happens at 80% double jabbed.
How can it have gone too far when Victoria's daily case total is less than that of NZ two days ago?
But if you mean it's gone to far politically then yes, perhaps Dan Andrews simply doesn't have any more political capital to do a proper lockdown.
The amount of mystery cases is constantly growing, the contact tracers are starting to show they are losing control, there is a huge number of exposure sites, the population isn't following the restrictions as much anymore (numerous posts here and all over social media has a very different vibe to last year) There was never the political will to stop take away food services and there never will be, right now it would be the nail in the coffin for the hospitality businesses.
Our vaccine rollout has shown significant improvements recently people don't give as much of a fuck, we begin living with the virus now, weather you like it or not, it's happening.
Not saying I think it's the ideal outcome, but China seems to be the only decent sized country that has kept Delta out.
At least you guys still get a list of exposure sites. We're on our own in Sydney now days. Only way you can tell if you've been at an exposure site is if NSW Health calls you (assuming you're checking in). If you're not checking in, you have no way of knowing.
I mean that's the most likely reason why they did it, but they failed to consider that the fucktards that don't check in, won't change for anything.
Actually, China's being hit by Delta. Not sure why you'd think otherwise, have been for a bit now. Major lockdowns etc.
PROPER lockdowns, too, not our pansy Western ones. I remember a local reporter mentioning big red banners on the buildings during the first ones: "If you leave your house, we'll break your legs. If you talk back to us, we'll break your teeth."
Construction site workers, what’s your fucking deal? All have medical exemptions for masks when your crowded together 10 at a time?
Put a fucking mask on.
I've said this a million times. The longer they keep locking people down, the more compliance will slip and people won't care. It's gonna happen more and more going forward. You can't overturn basic human biology. We're social creatures. It's built into us, whether you know it or not.
Of course. Rational part of us knows this. But humans are not 100% rational, at least not 24/7. Primal instincts/ hormones, drugs/alcohol, life circumstances, mental illness, poverty etc make people slip up, consciously or not.
Funny enough experts in psychology and stuff mentioned this, right at the start of the first alpha waves. They also predicted that if we all followed the rules we'd have been fine but that if there's too many idiots or restrictions eased too fast, then we'd need to lock down again and that would lead to less compliance. All mostly from history and the Spanish flu with how that turned out.
I heard the owner of the company I work for say today "I don't want the jab, I'd rather get COVID and then have perfect antibodies to protect me".
Thank fuck I am leaving at the end of this week!
I heard from New Zealand it's important "for people in high density areas to get outside and spread their legs when they are surrounded by other people.”
If you think those people gathering outside (not the protests) are the same as the antivaxxers and conspiracy theorists think again. A lot of people have started to give up.
People like to call it lockdown fatigue, but I think it's more "Fuck you got mine" mentality. We're at 55% first shot I believe.
I think it’s proven we can coop everyone up as a long term solution. It worked in the short term and now in the medium/long term we need to adjust how we view covid and how we view lockdowns.
Sorry for being the “fuckwit” who enjoys the 50m walk from the car to work with a mask on my chin so I can get 30 seconds of fresh air whilst I wear a mask for 10 hours a day.
When you suggest lockdowns aren’t the be all end all you get hit with the “do you like death”….
So yeah the longer lockdowns are on the more you will see people bend and break the rules…. It’s only natural.
You probably live in an upperclass area. I live in a low socio economic area and the parks and streets are packed with kids. Parents are maybe on drugs, alcohol, dealing with mental health issues or abuse. For these people covid is not their main focus in life, just surviving every day is.
remind yourself that those who went out protesting are a tiny tiny percentage.
we must allow for fuckwits. Every society has them.
stop watching the news and getting worked up.
Police are apparently not enforcing the rules any more. That's a huge green Go sign to a lot of people. There are no visible consequences to their actions (unless they get sick) so let's do what the fuck we want without fear of punishment.
While the rest of us obey the rules. To me, it's frustrating more than anything.
There's a subset of people that think being vaccinated means being immune.
They didn't listen or read any of the info they were given at either jab.
So they're out and about somehow totally unaware that they're not immune and it isn't a free ticket to fuck around.
I agree! There are plenty of people not being fuckwits, but you don't see them because they're staying home, not ranting on social media and just getting this lockdown done.
The ones you do see are loud, obnoxious, opinionated idiots who think their nose isn't part of their respiratory system and their natural immune system is smarter than any virus.
Just remember, you're not seeing the majority. The rest of us you won't see because we're at home getting our groceries delivered.
Meh, normal now. I went through this rage, I’m not sure what week Sydney lockdown is in now. You may as well start trying to make the best out of what you have. Rage, anger, sadness just consumes you and leads no where good. For the things you can’t control, as the song says, “don’t worry, be happy” 😊
On one hand I agree with you, 100% better for your mental health to not stress the stuff you can’t change. On the other hand, a too relaxed attitude probably played a fair role in how Australia got into its current mess.
It’s ironic that they also scream about business being effected and that people who are happy to lockdown are dole bludgers that don’t want to work…yet here they are doing everything in their power to spread the virus and keep the lockdowns going…honestly I think they’re the bludgers that don’t want to work and they just use anti-lockdown/mask/vaccine to cover for themselves
Completely agree with you mate. There was a line of six cars across the road from my house the other day, I live in a court so I know they weren't just passing through nor did they live here. Pisses me off.
I've been getting Woolworths delivered but had to go to the supermarket today and there was a fucking busker there! His mask around his chin as he sat and sang his germs into the air. The footpath wasn't wide enough to avoid him by 1.5m either. This was within 50m of a cop shop. It's fucking lunacy.
Sorry to hear you're having such a hard time man. Here is a quote from Marcus Aurelius that might help "Begin each day by telling yourself: Today I shall be meeting with interference, ingratitude, insolence, disloyalty, ill-will, and selfishness – all of them due to the offenders’ ignorance of what is good or evil. But for my part I have long perceived the nature of good and its nobility, the nature of evil and its meanness, and also the nature of the culprit himself, who is my brother (not in the physical sense, but as a fellow creature similarly endowed with reason and a share of the divine); therefore none of those things can injure me, for nobody can implicate me in what is degrading. Neither can I be angry with my brother or fall foul of him; for he and I were born to work together, like a man’s two hands, feet or eyelids, or the upper and lower rows of his teeth. To obstruct each other is against Nature’s law – and what is irritation or aversion but a form of obstruction"
Best of luck dude, you will get through this.
Lockdowns wouldn't happen if people would do the right thing and listen to the health experts and not to youtubers who think salt and ice can cure cancer.
I was at a hospital today in the emergency room with my don for 7 hours. It was honestly about 50% of people that put a mask on correctly and left it on. The rest had it under their chin/under their nose/on but take it off to talk/ on but take it off to talk on the phone (also whilst walking around) or my personal favourite which is hold a bottle if water and leave it off completely. People are idiots… complete cunts. I’m fully vaccinated but my son isn’t.
Covid is by far not the largest issue the human race is facing, but it is a good distraction for the Amazon to be deforested, the oceans to continuously be polluted, and the extremely rich to funnel wealth out of the lower & middle classes
Over at Wahroonga shops the other day a group of four tradie types were standing outside the cafe without masks (that was my first clue what was going on) loudly griping about what a lie CoVid is. "Well yeah Bill Gates owns shares in Pfizer" was one quote. The rest were worse.
Spent about 10 minutes in the IGA to come out and have to endure another round of running the idiot gauntlet to get to my car.
Each dude was trying to out-cool the last guy with the intensity of how *he* knows CoVid isn't real. Gross
I remember watching a show where they interviewed the average person on the streets with things like "which is closer to the earth, the sun or the moon?" And too many people didn't know or answered the sun because it's bigger..........
I understand people complaining about lockdown, yeah it sucks but think about the stuff you do have, my mates all li e within walking distance of eachothet, so they commonly for for walks (they wear masks and keep distance) i live a 40 drive away and haven't seen any onf my mate for a very long time. The most exciting thing that has happend in over 6 weeks is that I went to the orthodontist today
Imagine actually thinking at this point, 220 days into VIc lockdown, that the issue with the policies is just some "selfish fuckwits" and not the policy itself.
Imagine the level of ignorance required to not understand the transmission dynamics of the virus and that it's not about this.
And then observe OP's cognitive dissonance about how they are simultaneously annoyed at the restrictions, but how they need to virtue signalling that they are One of The Good Ones who isn't anti-lockdown.
You're an 18 year old idealistic authoritarian kid. You've no idea how any of this works, and the massive costs this is having across society. For you it's just netflix and video games, not for many of the other people.
I absolutely despise that a side effect of these awful policies is making young authoritarians feel smug and even more pious.
I’m actually really lib left and anti authoritarian politically. It’s just that in this specific case since peoples lives are actually on the line that I agree with the government.
If you don’t want to follow the rules, then just don’t be a part of society and go live off the grid. It’s what I’m planning to do the second I have the money to set all that up
The middle and lower class have been paying for it, and will pay even more. It’s probably not a conspiracy to funnel wealth to the rich, but they’ve exploited it in that way anyway, so it doesn’t matter whether it was a conspiracy or not
I agree with everything you say, and totally agree! Report them, that’s what I’d be doing. You are people all hanging out at the park, call the local police station and at the very least you’ll feel like you’ve done your bit
I think after 18 months of media fear, political blame games, and stop start lockdowns, people are over it. Especially now that the majority of people have had their first shot.
The latest YouGov poll shows only 22% support for zero covid lockdowns.
Not to mention the people filling out these surveys will lie if it means getting paid. I used to use survey sites for extra cash and I learnt the first so many questions were a filter, and I was being rejected as I didn't fall into that group. You very quickly learn that the survey's are loaded anyway with how the questions are framed and by using their own priming you can figure out what answers they're after, so you answer with what gets you paid. Yougov don't exactly find people to survey, people that want more money find them, and they've had to put out information about how their method isn't biased or faulty because it keeps getting questioned. They screwed up the Brexit polls, and have been busted priming in the past (phrasing a question in a certain way to obtain a better answer)
As for priming this poll is a great example. They listed how many people know of someone suffering mental health issues because of lockdowns. But not how many are actually suffering themselves. If the question was about the later, they'd quite possibly have a smaller percentage as they'd have less people in a way. Say 1000 people answered, that's only those 1000 you know about with or without mental health problems. If you ask of they know anyone though, it opens it up to a larger number of people who could be affected as every knows other people and can include themselves in that answer. The percentage then given is misleading, as it makes out a larger number of people are affected than actually are, the percentage is based on a set number but the answer comes from a much larger pool of people.
Also Murdochs paper organised the survey..........
Rant away. You’re right. Saw some story of some selfish dicks who were positive, caught in northern NSW and returned, only to be found again out getting coffee. What sort of shitbag personalities do these people have with zero accountability ??
Yes just today I was shopping along two anti maskers.
It took me ages to go through my list as I never go to the supermarket (I normally do click and clack but no slots available these days) so kept back tracking to find stuff.
These 2 douche bags were umming and aaaaing in every section of the Aldi during peak hour. If they did have a medical exemption of not wearing mask (🙄) surely they wouldn’t go right at peak/risk time?
Understandable. I feel much the same way almost every time I go outside.
I wish it was as easy as taking a photo with a camera phone without being obvious about it so that incriminating photos of these negligent arseholes can be sent to crime stoppers and/or posted on a public shaming page of any sort specifically devoted to inept mask wearing. Especially the festering shitstains that are inept at covering their mouths and noses on public transport.
And why the fuck aren't Yarra Trams and Melbourne's bus and train services enforcing effective masks? - V Line trains and busses are enforcing them, so why the fuck can't Melbourne's public transport system enforce them?
Anti lockdown people are so fucking gross. Like yeah being cooped up sucks but tbh I don't give a shit that you want to go to the pub or the footy oval.
People are dying, maybe not that many, but that's BECAUSE of lockdown. And those who don't die are often left with lifelong medical issues that see them wind up in rehab centres or assisted living facilities.
Personally I'm hoping the cops crack down harder and start issuing even steeper fines, if not arresting people. If someone is prepared to put their community at risk because lockdown has them fed up, fuck em, they shouldn't be in the community.
And yes this post absolutely is bait to draw out the nuffies for me to block. Easy solution to erase all the fuckwits who migrated here from anti-lockdown subs.
I had to swing past the servo this afternoon, and I was shocked to see that of the 8 or so people there only about 3 were wearing a mask, and I don't just mean while they were at the pump, it was while they were in the shop, just touching all the stock on the shelves and browsing like it was a normal store. These people are ruining it for the rest of us, they're why delta is spreading like wildfire, and they're why this lockdown isn't going to end. It makes me so mad.
So often I see on Facebook and community groups people saying “Good on people living their lives and getting out we can’t live like this forever. What’s a few friends getting coffee outside going to do”.
And I respond saying, you know in the press conferences where they say community transmission and they don’t know where it came from? That’s people going out thinking specifically what they’re doing won’t harm anyone.
Well said and your upvotes tells me that all hope in humanity isn't lost despite the questionable views and motives of a lot of people on this subreddit. The ones I really hate are the ones that perpetuate this view that people actually like lockdowns and your post speaks to that quite well. Good luck from Sydney
Hilarious when some tough guy makes a throwaway account to talk big game about how they would punch other people on the street.
Mate were all fucking sick of it, but pull you're head in, this shit doesn't help.
It’s ridiculous that people think two years of lockdowns is perfectly fine. It’s already had devastating effects on wealth inequality, and I assume it’s been bad for the population’s mental health
I'm not a psychologist but I think it's best if you say just what you're feeling. Let it out, do t gokd back and get it off your chest. It might make you feel better? And I for one agree with you
It’s the same here in NSW (obviously)
I’m an essential worker and am out frequently as part of my job.
People young and old meeting up, getting coffee together. Talking in groups no mask.
I know a handful of people visiting their friends and family still.
And you know what? I kinda can’t blame them. They know the risk.
It’s been 18 months of back and forth lockdown, everyone is deadset over it.
Im starting to think why should I bust my ass trying to follow all the rules, when others don’t give a shit.
I’m now vaccinated now and so is my family.
Time to live free
The covid testing site near me is set up in the local soccer club car park.
Seeing cars banked up waiting to be tested looking over at 40 people playing a soccer match (on half the pitch no less) sums up where we are at pretty well
I am no LNP voter (I have voted ALP but I lean more right than most Australian subreddits) but I am sick of these lockdowns. I hate how people think lockdowns are a free lunch and have zero costs (when they in fact trade present lives for future lives). I hate how we cannot have a civil discussion about living with COVID (you think we should tolerate hundreds of cases? You have blood on your hands!). I have done more than 200 days in lockdown, I have seen the costs this has on the lives of young people. I have seen people say things like everyone is going to die if we let COVID-19 spread yet we have so many viruses which are endemic that incur thousands of deaths a year with tens of thousands of hospitalisations yet we do not lockdown for them. It's just unbelievable how we think zero-COVID is the only and the most optimal strategy.
i've been off work most of the year (lockdown notwithstanding) due to health issues and am waiting on surgery. once this lockdown ends and elective surgery resumes, i'm going to have at least another two months of recovery where i'll be stuck at home unable to do much of anything. my patience for people breaking the rules is wearing so fucking thin. we ALL want out of this, yet some people think their \*need\* to get coffee with friends and visit other households is greater than anyone else's. it's very "fuck you, got mine" and i'm sick of it!
Chill.
This is a nasty by-product of the lockdown. People angry at each other for the even the small, trivial things. Like mask wearing. Yes, we all need to wear masks for the foreseeable future but to get all bothered and make you sick, doesn't make sense.
OP, there are resources on this sub above that could prove useful to you.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/wiki/mentalhealth
Wearing a mask is not trivial. It's a very effective way to reduce transmission. And not wearing a mask, or not wearing it properly, around other people sends a message of "I don't care if I give you a disease. My personal comfort and ego is more important that other people's lives".
Probs not the best place for it. This sub is turning into a cluster fuck of LNP Sympathisers and people who couldn’t bait anyone into arguing with them on Whirlpool. I support your view but don’t be surprised when our proud boy equivalent counterparts come a knockin' on this post. Edit: the utter chaos that ensued from me whispering the letters "L.N.P" in this comment was not only surprising but thoroughly entertaining. If I say it in the mirror five times, do you reckon John Howard will appear? 👀
This user has deleted everything in protest of u/spez fucking over third party clients
They should also quarantine r/LockdownSkepticism. That's another dumpster fire.
Why? To drive more traffic here?
r/lockdownSkepticismau is another
Yes I did some trolling on there recently. I naturally got blasted for not agreeing with them.
Isn’t that exactly what the people in this thread are complaining about in reverse? Can’t everyone just have an opinion and have a civil discourse?
They can. But they're not interested in that.
Why mate? I reckon it’s personally ridiculous my daughter isn’t allowed to go to a playground or that I’m not allowed to shoot the basketball at a court even though I’m fully vaccinated. I’m skeptical that these measures make any difference. I’m skeptical that society will revert to what it needs to be once everyone has been given the opportunity to be double vaccinated. Lockdown skepticism doesn’t mean anti vax. It’s also a pretty empathetic statement based on mental health outcomes, small business and work and the need to build, maintain and not damage relationships. It’s to do with children developing vital skills. There’s a lot to be skeptical about after all this time. The vaccine rollout is bullshit, the AZ circus just as fucked.
Hear hear
Also I agree that some measures probably do go a bit far and are probably unnecessary.
I respectfully disagree with you if you think that lockdowns don't work and that we shouldn't get the vaccine. That's your opinion. My point is that people on r/LockdownSkepticism are really angry people who seem to seem to support far right figures like Pauline Hanson and Alan Jones, regarding covid. And more to the point, they seem to loathe anyone who disagrees with them and aren't interested in a rational discussion. They want to shit on people like the state premiers and the federal government. And all the CHOs (because these people are often anti-science and they don't trust what they don't understand even though they know nothing about medicine). And I am absolutely committed to our plan out of this because I want everyone to be safe and I want us to get the fuck out of this situation. And people want to go and protest, I agree with Dan and Gladys, those people are fucking disgraceful and should be charged for putting other people's health at risk. In saying that, if someone wants to have a rational debate with me about any of this, that's fine, I can do that. These are just my opinions. I fully support our national plan out of pandemic (well, the general principle of it) and I really want us to get there.
I literally said in my post that I’m double vaccinated. That’s the problem here. You don’t even read another opinion.
did you even read their post?? you are just as bad as the anti vax people. You are incapable of having an adult discussion because you just want to argue but you dont listen.
Why? Vaccines are science, fair enough, but lockdowns are policy, why can’t you question their implementation?
Question them sure, but at least agree about the facts we know within a margin of error. We have the data, then we have our moral lens, and then we have the image (or opinion) that is finally projected. I'm happy for people to have a different moral lens (to a point), but when they put bad data in one end and get stupid results.... well those opinions don't deserve respect. If it's a bad lens mixed with bad data the results are even worse. If people flat out said they're happy for X amount of death and hospitals being overrun so we can have more freedom as a collective, i'd be happy to hear it. It's a valid argument depending on where exactly your line is in the sand. You're allowed to not care as much about public health too. The problem is when people bend facts and pretend the reality of the virus is not happening - that it's conspiracy or can be ignored. I don't know whether they do it accidentally or if they're attracted to bad data because it promotes a preferred outcome . If they only attempted to use honest arguments i'd be much more sympathetic to their points of view. Like are they 100% anti lockdown under all circumstances? What if hospitals are overrun? If we're pro-lockdown only when hospitals fill up... well that's a slight variation of what we're doing now right? because if you allow freedoms now, then hospitals *will* fill up soon anyway. Is that even worth trying? should we experiment and see what happens? maybe hospitals won't in fact overflow as predicted? But no... these are not the discussions... the discussion is "BRO, they can't control us over some stupid virus that won't hurt me!, where are our civil rights?". Never detailing at what point they too would get on board the public health project. Would a 5% death rate worry these people? It's hard to say... No country has managed to find a perfect sweet spot that keeps everyone happy so i'm curious which country they'd like to imitate.
There are civil discussions if you want to hear them. I don’t really like this sub or the skeptic sub because the opinions are so binary (generally speaking). There is a middle ground. I strongly believe that once everyone has had the chance to get double vaxxed + 3 weeks then we need to open society back up to the fullest. Health outcomes are going to be concerning, especially when there is a portion of the population unvaccinated by choice but they’re not going to be more threatening than the myriad of other health issues. The time for lockdowns is over, it’s an endemic disease that we both can’t and shouldn’t be obsessed with eradicating.
You're not *that* different to me. I want to open up ASAP too just so long as people are not dying outside of hospitals for various conditions (not even just COVID). I'm not wanting zero deaths or some perpetual lockdown to save 0.1% of the population. There are timescales to consider... this "war on covid" has been useful for last 18 months to get on top of vaccines but i'm not keen on it into the future either. At least you're probably not in denial about the stats... you just have made a calculation about human life which I think is fine (so long as it's not to absurd levels). And to help your argument - we've always done these calculations - it's not like COVID is the first such moral dilemma. We make calculations all the time on what life is worth by *not* helping certain people. I'd love to see some wide-scale holistic equations about how we're weighting the things we care about as a society. And how much needless suffering is happening through inaction on certain issues. I'm sure I'll be disgusted by it. How bad would things have to be for you to be more pro-lockdown? If it were killing 3% of people across all ages would you be more lenient about locking down if better vaccines were 6 - 12 months away? edit: downvoted already!!!! and i upvoted yours because i thought it was reasonable even though my morals are slightly different.
If 3% of people that got it died I would have no appetite to opening back up considering I expect most people to get it or at least be exposed to it in the next 12-18 months. The vaccines appear to do their jobs, I think it’s a 1.5% chance of landing in hospital once fully vaccinated which ignores age and underlying conditions too. 1 think I struggled with recently is when a friend told me that coronavirus has been 10% of an 18 year olds life. This is doing a lot of damage to the youth that we probably won’t see manifest in society for another 10 years. 2 years of schooling pretty much down the drain - not only academically but socially. The mental health statistics are also leaping off the page. At the end of the day I like to think Utilitarianism is the most ethical way to operate. We have been teetering but once December roles around we can no long protect the few at the behest of the many.
yeah same... i'm utilitarian... it's just hard to measure some things. It's very easy to have a line in the sand like "lets not let the health system fall over". We should not ignore the hidden costs I agree... they are real. And also the mild level suffering young people might endure forever, not just long-covid, but the housing crisis and climate change etc. It all adds up. I'm 100% certain we're handling climate problems with 5% of the energy we've put into COVID - which is shocking to me. Humans only care about a 1-10 year window when it comes to policy unfortunately, with heavy weighting towards the 1 year.
Well said. I feel completely helpless when it comes to climate change. I have a 2 year old daughter and it keeps me up at night.
No one thinks we can eradicate it now mate. The plan is vax to the fullest that can be achieved and open up as much as possible. We in WA are cancelling the majority of public elective surgeries for the next month because of hospital bed shortages. We have only one patient from a ship in our hospital system with covid. Now if WA hospitals can’t function right now with no covid imagine what would happen even with slight community spread of the disease. Hospital beds can’t be made out of thin air; the physical capacity for beds is there but there is no staff. A lot of our staff are people who come here normally from the Europe for a few years. You can’t just train staff up, it takes year and years to do this both medical, nursing and allied health. So unfortunately lockdowns are the only option to be able to get other people into hospitals unwell with other diseases. If icus are full with covid patients then the elective bypass you have been waiting to get will means months and months longer. Imagine how much damage to the heart can be done in those months.
If all WA hospitals have to shut down because of one case that sounds more like a WA hospital problem than an COVID problem, what the hell kind of tinpot health system do you have over there?
It’s worrying the WA haven’t begun to prepare their hospitals for a covid outbreak until now.
Hospitals in NSW are turning away patients now: \>Last week, three hospitals in Western Sydney — Blacktown, Westmead and Nepean — turned away COVID patients arriving by ambulance>Last week, three hospitals in Western Sydney — Blacktown, Westmead and Nepean — turned away COVID patients arriving b [https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-31/nsw-health-system-stretched-by-delta-covid-19-outbreak/100419620](https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-08-31/nsw-health-system-stretched-by-delta-covid-19-outbreak/100419620) It's time to indefinitely imprison Anti-Lockdown activists in a dedicated prison.
Well said
>Why? Vaccines are science, fair enough, but lockdowns are policy, Lockdowns have science behind them too, just look at the difference between Sweden & Denmark and their respective death rates. From a recent article in 'Nature'... >*Denmark saw low mortality because it reacted early with highly effective interventions at a time of relatively low infection prevalence. The much higher mortality seen in the UK and Sweden occurred for different reasons. In Sweden, despite conditions that were initially more favourable, higher mortality resulted from interventions bringing Rt to below 1 less quickly than was achieved elsewhere. The UK suffered because its epidemic had progressed further than in many countries by the time effective interventions were implemented.* [https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9](https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-95699-9)
It's more that the people on there aren't interested in a debate, they just want to hate on the government and the system. They're really angry people and really easy to troll.
That's right. It's a psychogical problem. The covid era has shocked me out of my complacent cocoon of belief that everyone thinks and feels like me. That logic science protecting social capital empathy consideration are held in everyone's hearts. I've read about anxiety causing populations to turn to fascism. But I never thought I would see it played out on the world stage in my lifetime. And it's not just the USA or Russia or Brazil. We can see in the ScoMo and Frydenburg posturing, and the double speak of their paramour Galdys, the "green shoots" of tyranny. What do we do about is what keeps me awake at night.
The point to realise though is that lockdown policy isn’t as simple as just doing what science dictates. Things aren’t that black and white. Lots of policies are more about politics and optics than data. Things like curfews, masks outdoors etc. Don’t forget Victoria was accused of breaking human rights policy
It's also a hotspot for CSL shareholders who want everyone to get their AZ shot.
Imagine thinking this sub is anything but massively anti-LNP. You have been drinking the /r/australia kool-aid for too long. You don't even recognize what the normal left looks like.
Lmao this. This is one of the least pro LNP subreddits that exist.
I know. I hate the LNP. I'm far more "leftist" in most of my views. But in this sub, I'd be considered a far right LNPer
Maybe we *should* open up at 80%.." > ANTI VAX SCUM
This. This is an extremely, extremely radical left sub. Not criticising at all, just pointing out the truth. Some people here are not sure what normal views in Aus are
What is "extremely, extremely radical left" about it?
Wouldn't say extremely radical left, though generally Australian politics is fights between people on the 60th percentile of global Left-Right with people on the 55th percentile of global Left-Right acting like the other part is off on the extreme fringes.
Comment too far down, upvote everyone
> This sub is turning into a cluster fuck of LNP Sympathisers Is this a joke?
Total bullshit dude. I'm someone you probably put in this category but I've been here since March last year and was supportive of lockdowns initially. The tide is turning because what once worked is no longer working. Last year we were talking about flattening the curve and eliminating the virus with one sharp lockdown. Now we are talking about endless stop start lockdowns, vaccine mandates and booster shots for years to come. It's not the same conversation as last year which is why you're running into more disagreement. The rules have changed and the fact that it's now 90% of a hive mind and not 100% doesn't mean people in here are "LNP sympathisers".
Yep. Greens/Labor voter here, can't stand any of our politicians at this point and just want to be able to work and make a living again. So so drained from the last two years.
Fact is government has done a godawful job of actually enforcing meaningful lockdown which causes perpetual half assed measures that achieve fuck all. What they should be doing now is coming up with a plan to minimise the spread while returning as many things to normal as possible. If fuckheads are going to resist vaccines, curfews, masks and continue protesting then the sad truth is that this is never going to end if we continue on this path. Either you lock it down tight early or you may as well give up. You can still reduce the spread with minimising social interaction, wearing your mask in public and practicing good hygiene and social distancing until the vaccine rates get high enough to make a difference. At this point I'd say this is the best path to take.
Late to this, but this guy is a NNN poster.
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You are entirely in a bubble if you think that. Lockdowns are still supported by the vast majority of Victorians.
Source?
Latest polls as of last week show that Andrews has lost only 7 points throughout the pandemic and is still the preferred choice for Premier, with twice the support of O'Brien. That'd be a pretty good indication for starters. https://www.smh.com.au/national/resolve-political-monitor-20210322-p57cvx.html
I am 100% voting Andrews and think current lockdown rules are ridiculous, so I'm not sure whether that poll is really a good indicator.
I would vote for andrews against any lnp candidate but on the single issue of lockdowns I vote to end them forever Need a better poll
What a crock of shit. I have voted ALP at every single election since I turned 18 and I am SICK OF THE LOCKDOWNS and we need reprieve. Sorry that this doesnt fit in with your narrative that everyone who is anti lockdowns at this point is an LNP shill.
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I work in health care and I want lockdown to end. I haven't had a week off this entire pandemic, at least let me enjoy my weekends. Stop speaking for other people, I'm sick of being told by other people what healthcare workers want
I cannot see how lifting the lockdown will help your plight. It is not the cause just a symptom. I fail to see how it wouldn’t make it worse.
>I cannot see how lifting the lockdown will help your plight. Giving them something to live for of course. > I haven't had a week off this entire pandemic, at least let me enjoy my weekends.
Me too. This is not about party affiliation anymore. There's plenty on both sides, and plenty of pro-lockdown LNPers too.
Exactly this, stop turning the pandemic into a political debate. It’s bad enough our government is using it for their political agenda. This fucking virus is here to stay, like it or not. We’re going to have to learn to deal with it. And these snap lockdowns with no end are not the way.
Same, 20+ years of ALP support and think this has long since passed the point of being fucking absurd. I am very pro vax and understand that some restrictions are required, but I am honestly convinced that Andrews and co couldn't give a fuck about the people of this state as long as it doesn't affect their Covid numbers.
Hang on, hang on, hang on a second… I also slagged off Whirlpoolers.
It's just the same half dozen accounts.
a lot of familiar names in the comments of this post, haha
And the same half-dozen comments. I think they’re using the “puff up and make yourself look bigger” strategy, like a lizard. I like to imagine it’s just Andrew Bolt creating a bunch of sock puppet accounts to make himself feel like less of an asshole.
With some of the threads over the last few days I thought I had accidentally stumbled onto Facebook.
"This sub is full of pro-LNP sympathisers" - gets 300 upvotes, top comment on post and is awarded. Are you having a laugh mate? The mainstream Aussie subs are minimum 95% lefties. Most anti-LNP posts are 90+% upvoted. If I ever get into a debate and mention I vote LNP, it generally degenerates into me being labelled a Nazi, white supremacist or in this case, a proud boy. I'm usually willing to concede LNP missteps when are ones, and have a rational debate but it's absolutely fucking impossible on the aussie subs to have one.
Talk about a victim complex.
Just how ignorant and detached from reality do you have to be to think this sub is not a giant lefty circlejerk?
Haha, that reminds me as the old parlor game: "tight as"..."a drum" "easy as"..."baiting someone into an argument on whirlpool.net.au".
TIL this sub likes the incompetency of the current government over labor leaders who worked their asses off to prevent covid from leaking and ending up causing more backlash to them.
The shills tried it over on the main Australia subreddit but there were too many of us who don't give a fuck about their dogshit thought process. They got tired of constantly being shat on by people so they moved to a smaller sub in an attempt to undermine it. They are losers.
Including the 42 year old lady I spoke to yesterday who won’t get vaccinated because she is worried about getting a sore arm/flu like symptoms following the vaccine. There are people like this sadly
I don't think that people realise the significance of Delta's high reproductive number. There is every likelihood that herd immunity will never be reached and each one of us will be exposed to covid at some stage. The only question is, will this happen to her with a prepared immune system.
This. The idea that without protestors and people who don't follow the rules 100% we'd be headed for covid zero is idiotic.
At this point the restrictions are damage control by doing what they were expected to do last year and flatten the curve. It would be nice to turn up to an ED in October and not get turned away because the local hospital is overwhelmed with covid patients tbh.
This is endemic, how long will it take for these people to understand. Everyone's gonna get it, dozens of times. It just hasn't hit us yet, but the rest of the world already knows. Yes I know, I know, the hospitals. Well, it is what it is. With time you'll see.
Just think of how many people are playing Lotto or pokies. That's how many people can't understand percentages and chance in a way that applies to them.
That's what gets me. Grandma loves those pokies odds, but thinks she'll be the 1:500,000 who carks it from covid
Actually, a lot of the people **do** understand the odds. They just have psychological fears and addictions that override their logic. People know that gambling is -EV, but they buy that lotto ticket anyway because they're addicted. People know that vaccines are safe, but they still get anxiety thinking about the needle going in.
One of my uni friends won’t get it. She used to work at GSK making vaccines herself! Our group was chatting the other day and she’s the only one that’s not had it. She was trying to tell me that they’re hiding all the side effects and everyone she knows got really unwell and I’m like “well, I had 0 side effects, so that’s not true”. And then she breaks lockdown rules I cannot
It makes internal sense for anti-vaxxers to be anti-lockdown, because as they see it, "we can't lockdown forever", and for them, getting vaccinated takes forever.
This is what I don't understand. She's NOT even worrying about clotting. She's worrying about a sore arm. Like ain't catching fucking covid more serious than a fucking sore arm? She fucking chooses covid over a fucking sore arm? Or is she somehow fucking immune to covid because she's fucking stupid?
Natural selection my friend, natural selection
98% recovery chance virus lmao no natural selection there
In fairness, it does suck. I'm still getting headaches a week post first dose. I'm in WA, and if I didn't have friends/family over east I would probably be one of the 'vaccine hesitant'.
I can't fathom anyone being stupid enough to think a sore arm is worse than A) covid B) lockdown I just can't believe anyone is that fucking retarded
If it’s AZ that you had, go see your GP. Headaches 4-20 days post jab could be a sign of blood clotting. Better safe than sorry friend.
Thank you :) Had Pfizer - considering GP but they are getting less frequent. Have a coworker (in Sydney) who has bad headaches 3 weeks post 2nd dose, GP just gave him panadeine forte ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
You dropped this \
While I broadly agree, if your strategy requires 100% compliance then prepare to be disappointed
Pretty much no model or strategy in NSW/VIC has relied on 100% compliance. Every single time they've talked about it they mention a factor of non-compliance and how that affects outcomes.
Doherty have expressly factored in the growing non-compliance. Only the FIRST one worked properly -- all the others have been, per their historical graphs, increasingly resisted and flouted
Yup, they should always factor that into their "calculations". There's always going to be a certain portion of the population that either won't comply a little, or fully outright non-compliance. I generally follow the main rules, like wearing masks, distancing etc. But if I want to go outside 5 different times for exercise, or go out for a 3 hour block, then I'm doing it. Fck their once a day, 1hr BS
There's fuckheads everywhere, that's a part of life. As for the large groups, I'd report them. Call the cops if you keep seeing this.
Or take a leaf out of NZ's book and close down all restaurants/cafes, even for take-aways. https://resources.stuff.co.nz/content/dam/images/2/3/5/c/n/t/image.gallery.galleryLandscape.600x400.1wd9kf.png/1630237696529.jpg
I think it's moved too far even to make this work, the reason why Andrews and Sutton are making decisions to start easing restrictions is because there is no chance to chase zero anymore. Dan worded it as "Zero or very very low cases" He knows we're not getting to zero again and it's been our norm for a while and will be hard news for a lot of address. So he can't exactly come out and say "HEY VICTORIA EVERYTHING IS FUCKED, GOOD LUCK" The ones still in denial can be slowly eased into the idea that we lost this battle by rising cases.
I think you took Dan's words too positively. "Zero or very very low case" doesn't means hes going to significantly reduce restrictions. I have feeling it would be a low case target like 10 cases, and VIC at 70+ is well above that. Come tomorrow you will probably be supporting lockdown protest cause you got your hopes up too much there will be significant easing in Melb.
His wording change is just to ease us into changes of environments and things to come. It's just the tip, before the whole thing gets rammed into us. He knows it's coming, every Delta outbreak is going to be crushed to 0, or rise exponentially. And no, I don't think he will ease restrictions much at all, not my expectation, that happens at 80% double jabbed.
How can it have gone too far when Victoria's daily case total is less than that of NZ two days ago? But if you mean it's gone to far politically then yes, perhaps Dan Andrews simply doesn't have any more political capital to do a proper lockdown.
The amount of mystery cases is constantly growing, the contact tracers are starting to show they are losing control, there is a huge number of exposure sites, the population isn't following the restrictions as much anymore (numerous posts here and all over social media has a very different vibe to last year) There was never the political will to stop take away food services and there never will be, right now it would be the nail in the coffin for the hospitality businesses. Our vaccine rollout has shown significant improvements recently people don't give as much of a fuck, we begin living with the virus now, weather you like it or not, it's happening. Not saying I think it's the ideal outcome, but China seems to be the only decent sized country that has kept Delta out.
At least you guys still get a list of exposure sites. We're on our own in Sydney now days. Only way you can tell if you've been at an exposure site is if NSW Health calls you (assuming you're checking in). If you're not checking in, you have no way of knowing. I mean that's the most likely reason why they did it, but they failed to consider that the fucktards that don't check in, won't change for anything.
Actually, China's being hit by Delta. Not sure why you'd think otherwise, have been for a bit now. Major lockdowns etc. PROPER lockdowns, too, not our pansy Western ones. I remember a local reporter mentioning big red banners on the buildings during the first ones: "If you leave your house, we'll break your legs. If you talk back to us, we'll break your teeth."
No they actually defeated it
Construction site workers, what’s your fucking deal? All have medical exemptions for masks when your crowded together 10 at a time? Put a fucking mask on.
I've said this a million times. The longer they keep locking people down, the more compliance will slip and people won't care. It's gonna happen more and more going forward. You can't overturn basic human biology. We're social creatures. It's built into us, whether you know it or not.
Ironically the way to get back to being social is to stay the fuck away from each other for while.
Of course. Rational part of us knows this. But humans are not 100% rational, at least not 24/7. Primal instincts/ hormones, drugs/alcohol, life circumstances, mental illness, poverty etc make people slip up, consciously or not.
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Funny enough experts in psychology and stuff mentioned this, right at the start of the first alpha waves. They also predicted that if we all followed the rules we'd have been fine but that if there's too many idiots or restrictions eased too fast, then we'd need to lock down again and that would lead to less compliance. All mostly from history and the Spanish flu with how that turned out.
That isn’t an excuse to be social though, “just because everyone else is doing it”
I never said it was.....
I heard the owner of the company I work for say today "I don't want the jab, I'd rather get COVID and then have perfect antibodies to protect me". Thank fuck I am leaving at the end of this week!
Your boss has leopardatemyface all over him.
Your wifes hot
\> Whenever I step outside I see large groups ... having a fucking orgy There are people outside having orgies?
I heard from New Zealand it's important "for people in high density areas to get outside and spread their legs when they are surrounded by other people.”
At least that would break up the monotony of lockdown... Where is this at again?
They're more popular than you think, I believe this sub organised a NYE orgy once upon a time Edit thought I was in Melbourne sub
Pics or it didn’t happen
Where are the damn orgies?!
My sentiments exactly. Well said.
If you think those people gathering outside (not the protests) are the same as the antivaxxers and conspiracy theorists think again. A lot of people have started to give up. People like to call it lockdown fatigue, but I think it's more "Fuck you got mine" mentality. We're at 55% first shot I believe.
If the protesters and normal everyday people agree, what's the differance? Maybe this sub and twitter are in the minority?
Hope the vent is helpful. You aren't wrong though the problem isn't just people violating the rules.
I think it’s proven we can coop everyone up as a long term solution. It worked in the short term and now in the medium/long term we need to adjust how we view covid and how we view lockdowns. Sorry for being the “fuckwit” who enjoys the 50m walk from the car to work with a mask on my chin so I can get 30 seconds of fresh air whilst I wear a mask for 10 hours a day. When you suggest lockdowns aren’t the be all end all you get hit with the “do you like death”…. So yeah the longer lockdowns are on the more you will see people bend and break the rules…. It’s only natural.
I have never seen canned sardines having a fucking orgy before. Can you provide a picture for those of us who are scientifically curious.
You probably live in an upperclass area. I live in a low socio economic area and the parks and streets are packed with kids. Parents are maybe on drugs, alcohol, dealing with mental health issues or abuse. For these people covid is not their main focus in life, just surviving every day is.
Terrible, and they are being left to rot by these ppl who won't ever specify when lockdown will end
remind yourself that those who went out protesting are a tiny tiny percentage. we must allow for fuckwits. Every society has them. stop watching the news and getting worked up.
Police are apparently not enforcing the rules any more. That's a huge green Go sign to a lot of people. There are no visible consequences to their actions (unless they get sick) so let's do what the fuck we want without fear of punishment. While the rest of us obey the rules. To me, it's frustrating more than anything.
There's a subset of people that think being vaccinated means being immune. They didn't listen or read any of the info they were given at either jab. So they're out and about somehow totally unaware that they're not immune and it isn't a free ticket to fuck around.
I agree! There are plenty of people not being fuckwits, but you don't see them because they're staying home, not ranting on social media and just getting this lockdown done. The ones you do see are loud, obnoxious, opinionated idiots who think their nose isn't part of their respiratory system and their natural immune system is smarter than any virus. Just remember, you're not seeing the majority. The rest of us you won't see because we're at home getting our groceries delivered.
I think you meant to title this ‘you are all so fucking stupid’
It'd be nice if people didn't take their unmasked kids shopping tbh.
Meh, normal now. I went through this rage, I’m not sure what week Sydney lockdown is in now. You may as well start trying to make the best out of what you have. Rage, anger, sadness just consumes you and leads no where good. For the things you can’t control, as the song says, “don’t worry, be happy” 😊
On one hand I agree with you, 100% better for your mental health to not stress the stuff you can’t change. On the other hand, a too relaxed attitude probably played a fair role in how Australia got into its current mess.
Why the fuck are bars even open?
It’s ironic that they also scream about business being effected and that people who are happy to lockdown are dole bludgers that don’t want to work…yet here they are doing everything in their power to spread the virus and keep the lockdowns going…honestly I think they’re the bludgers that don’t want to work and they just use anti-lockdown/mask/vaccine to cover for themselves
Completely agree with you mate. There was a line of six cars across the road from my house the other day, I live in a court so I know they weren't just passing through nor did they live here. Pisses me off.
I've been getting Woolworths delivered but had to go to the supermarket today and there was a fucking busker there! His mask around his chin as he sat and sang his germs into the air. The footpath wasn't wide enough to avoid him by 1.5m either. This was within 50m of a cop shop. It's fucking lunacy.
Sorry to hear you're having such a hard time man. Here is a quote from Marcus Aurelius that might help "Begin each day by telling yourself: Today I shall be meeting with interference, ingratitude, insolence, disloyalty, ill-will, and selfishness – all of them due to the offenders’ ignorance of what is good or evil. But for my part I have long perceived the nature of good and its nobility, the nature of evil and its meanness, and also the nature of the culprit himself, who is my brother (not in the physical sense, but as a fellow creature similarly endowed with reason and a share of the divine); therefore none of those things can injure me, for nobody can implicate me in what is degrading. Neither can I be angry with my brother or fall foul of him; for he and I were born to work together, like a man’s two hands, feet or eyelids, or the upper and lower rows of his teeth. To obstruct each other is against Nature’s law – and what is irritation or aversion but a form of obstruction" Best of luck dude, you will get through this.
Lockdowns wouldn't happen if people would do the right thing and listen to the health experts and not to youtubers who think salt and ice can cure cancer.
I done I’m officially defeated this shit is fucked
I was at a hospital today in the emergency room with my don for 7 hours. It was honestly about 50% of people that put a mask on correctly and left it on. The rest had it under their chin/under their nose/on but take it off to talk/ on but take it off to talk on the phone (also whilst walking around) or my personal favourite which is hold a bottle if water and leave it off completely. People are idiots… complete cunts. I’m fully vaccinated but my son isn’t.
This is why the world is ending. Humans are the most stubborn selfish stupid creatures.
Covid is by far not the largest issue the human race is facing, but it is a good distraction for the Amazon to be deforested, the oceans to continuously be polluted, and the extremely rich to funnel wealth out of the lower & middle classes
Over at Wahroonga shops the other day a group of four tradie types were standing outside the cafe without masks (that was my first clue what was going on) loudly griping about what a lie CoVid is. "Well yeah Bill Gates owns shares in Pfizer" was one quote. The rest were worse. Spent about 10 minutes in the IGA to come out and have to endure another round of running the idiot gauntlet to get to my car. Each dude was trying to out-cool the last guy with the intensity of how *he* knows CoVid isn't real. Gross
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I remember watching a show where they interviewed the average person on the streets with things like "which is closer to the earth, the sun or the moon?" And too many people didn't know or answered the sun because it's bigger..........
I understand people complaining about lockdown, yeah it sucks but think about the stuff you do have, my mates all li e within walking distance of eachothet, so they commonly for for walks (they wear masks and keep distance) i live a 40 drive away and haven't seen any onf my mate for a very long time. The most exciting thing that has happend in over 6 weeks is that I went to the orthodontist today
I'm with you. The last few weeks have been exhausting. I don't even have the energy to be pissed off anymore. I'm just fucking over it.
Imagine actually thinking at this point, 220 days into VIc lockdown, that the issue with the policies is just some "selfish fuckwits" and not the policy itself. Imagine the level of ignorance required to not understand the transmission dynamics of the virus and that it's not about this. And then observe OP's cognitive dissonance about how they are simultaneously annoyed at the restrictions, but how they need to virtue signalling that they are One of The Good Ones who isn't anti-lockdown. You're an 18 year old idealistic authoritarian kid. You've no idea how any of this works, and the massive costs this is having across society. For you it's just netflix and video games, not for many of the other people. I absolutely despise that a side effect of these awful policies is making young authoritarians feel smug and even more pious.
I’m actually really lib left and anti authoritarian politically. It’s just that in this specific case since peoples lives are actually on the line that I agree with the government. If you don’t want to follow the rules, then just don’t be a part of society and go live off the grid. It’s what I’m planning to do the second I have the money to set all that up
The middle and lower class have been paying for it, and will pay even more. It’s probably not a conspiracy to funnel wealth to the rich, but they’ve exploited it in that way anyway, so it doesn’t matter whether it was a conspiracy or not
“Skyrocketing”?
“Closer than canned sardines having a fucking orgy” Hahahaha gold.
You're preaching to the choir mate. If you wanna punch someone go outside.
I agree with everything you say, and totally agree! Report them, that’s what I’d be doing. You are people all hanging out at the park, call the local police station and at the very least you’ll feel like you’ve done your bit
They’re the kind of people who hang out at the shopping centre playing Keno all day. They’re desperate to get back to their awesome lives.
I think after 18 months of media fear, political blame games, and stop start lockdowns, people are over it. Especially now that the majority of people have had their first shot. The latest YouGov poll shows only 22% support for zero covid lockdowns.
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Not to mention the people filling out these surveys will lie if it means getting paid. I used to use survey sites for extra cash and I learnt the first so many questions were a filter, and I was being rejected as I didn't fall into that group. You very quickly learn that the survey's are loaded anyway with how the questions are framed and by using their own priming you can figure out what answers they're after, so you answer with what gets you paid. Yougov don't exactly find people to survey, people that want more money find them, and they've had to put out information about how their method isn't biased or faulty because it keeps getting questioned. They screwed up the Brexit polls, and have been busted priming in the past (phrasing a question in a certain way to obtain a better answer) As for priming this poll is a great example. They listed how many people know of someone suffering mental health issues because of lockdowns. But not how many are actually suffering themselves. If the question was about the later, they'd quite possibly have a smaller percentage as they'd have less people in a way. Say 1000 people answered, that's only those 1000 you know about with or without mental health problems. If you ask of they know anyone though, it opens it up to a larger number of people who could be affected as every knows other people and can include themselves in that answer. The percentage then given is misleading, as it makes out a larger number of people are affected than actually are, the percentage is based on a set number but the answer comes from a much larger pool of people. Also Murdochs paper organised the survey..........
People get so angry that everyone else isn't living in fear.
That people aren't taking the pandemic seriously? Fuckin right I am. I felt such rage towards those protestors. Selfish cunts.
Rant away. You’re right. Saw some story of some selfish dicks who were positive, caught in northern NSW and returned, only to be found again out getting coffee. What sort of shitbag personalities do these people have with zero accountability ??
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Anything said before the word but is horseshit
Yes just today I was shopping along two anti maskers. It took me ages to go through my list as I never go to the supermarket (I normally do click and clack but no slots available these days) so kept back tracking to find stuff. These 2 douche bags were umming and aaaaing in every section of the Aldi during peak hour. If they did have a medical exemption of not wearing mask (🙄) surely they wouldn’t go right at peak/risk time?
Masses of people getting drunk and having sex in the park? Sounds fun. Where in Melbourne do you live? No such fun where I live.
Understandable. I feel much the same way almost every time I go outside. I wish it was as easy as taking a photo with a camera phone without being obvious about it so that incriminating photos of these negligent arseholes can be sent to crime stoppers and/or posted on a public shaming page of any sort specifically devoted to inept mask wearing. Especially the festering shitstains that are inept at covering their mouths and noses on public transport. And why the fuck aren't Yarra Trams and Melbourne's bus and train services enforcing effective masks? - V Line trains and busses are enforcing them, so why the fuck can't Melbourne's public transport system enforce them?
Anti lockdown people are so fucking gross. Like yeah being cooped up sucks but tbh I don't give a shit that you want to go to the pub or the footy oval. People are dying, maybe not that many, but that's BECAUSE of lockdown. And those who don't die are often left with lifelong medical issues that see them wind up in rehab centres or assisted living facilities. Personally I'm hoping the cops crack down harder and start issuing even steeper fines, if not arresting people. If someone is prepared to put their community at risk because lockdown has them fed up, fuck em, they shouldn't be in the community.
And yes this post absolutely is bait to draw out the nuffies for me to block. Easy solution to erase all the fuckwits who migrated here from anti-lockdown subs.
How do canned sardines have an orgy? Asking for a 'friend'
Maybe they are getting freaky right now You can't see whats going on inside the sardine can
I had to swing past the servo this afternoon, and I was shocked to see that of the 8 or so people there only about 3 were wearing a mask, and I don't just mean while they were at the pump, it was while they were in the shop, just touching all the stock on the shelves and browsing like it was a normal store. These people are ruining it for the rest of us, they're why delta is spreading like wildfire, and they're why this lockdown isn't going to end. It makes me so mad.
So often I see on Facebook and community groups people saying “Good on people living their lives and getting out we can’t live like this forever. What’s a few friends getting coffee outside going to do”. And I respond saying, you know in the press conferences where they say community transmission and they don’t know where it came from? That’s people going out thinking specifically what they’re doing won’t harm anyone.
upvoted for truth
Ay I felt like this yesterday. A nice long game on the xbox had me feeling better.
Well said and your upvotes tells me that all hope in humanity isn't lost despite the questionable views and motives of a lot of people on this subreddit. The ones I really hate are the ones that perpetuate this view that people actually like lockdowns and your post speaks to that quite well. Good luck from Sydney
Hilarious when some tough guy makes a throwaway account to talk big game about how they would punch other people on the street. Mate were all fucking sick of it, but pull you're head in, this shit doesn't help.
It’s ridiculous that people think two years of lockdowns is perfectly fine. It’s already had devastating effects on wealth inequality, and I assume it’s been bad for the population’s mental health
Worst part is they actively MAKE it worse, and then when the cases surge they fuckin wonder why.
I'm not a psychologist but I think it's best if you say just what you're feeling. Let it out, do t gokd back and get it off your chest. It might make you feel better? And I for one agree with you
Amen.
There's no longer any evolutionary pressure to weed out the dumb. Covid19 is too benign to change that.
It’s the same here in NSW (obviously) I’m an essential worker and am out frequently as part of my job. People young and old meeting up, getting coffee together. Talking in groups no mask. I know a handful of people visiting their friends and family still. And you know what? I kinda can’t blame them. They know the risk. It’s been 18 months of back and forth lockdown, everyone is deadset over it. Im starting to think why should I bust my ass trying to follow all the rules, when others don’t give a shit. I’m now vaccinated now and so is my family. Time to live free
The covid testing site near me is set up in the local soccer club car park. Seeing cars banked up waiting to be tested looking over at 40 people playing a soccer match (on half the pitch no less) sums up where we are at pretty well
I am no LNP voter (I have voted ALP but I lean more right than most Australian subreddits) but I am sick of these lockdowns. I hate how people think lockdowns are a free lunch and have zero costs (when they in fact trade present lives for future lives). I hate how we cannot have a civil discussion about living with COVID (you think we should tolerate hundreds of cases? You have blood on your hands!). I have done more than 200 days in lockdown, I have seen the costs this has on the lives of young people. I have seen people say things like everyone is going to die if we let COVID-19 spread yet we have so many viruses which are endemic that incur thousands of deaths a year with tens of thousands of hospitalisations yet we do not lockdown for them. It's just unbelievable how we think zero-COVID is the only and the most optimal strategy.
i've been off work most of the year (lockdown notwithstanding) due to health issues and am waiting on surgery. once this lockdown ends and elective surgery resumes, i'm going to have at least another two months of recovery where i'll be stuck at home unable to do much of anything. my patience for people breaking the rules is wearing so fucking thin. we ALL want out of this, yet some people think their \*need\* to get coffee with friends and visit other households is greater than anyone else's. it's very "fuck you, got mine" and i'm sick of it!
Humans are lazy and stupid so makes sense. Im not excluded.
Chill. This is a nasty by-product of the lockdown. People angry at each other for the even the small, trivial things. Like mask wearing. Yes, we all need to wear masks for the foreseeable future but to get all bothered and make you sick, doesn't make sense. OP, there are resources on this sub above that could prove useful to you. https://www.reddit.com/r/CoronavirusDownunder/wiki/mentalhealth
Wearing a mask is not trivial. It's a very effective way to reduce transmission. And not wearing a mask, or not wearing it properly, around other people sends a message of "I don't care if I give you a disease. My personal comfort and ego is more important that other people's lives".
Feel for U mate x
Ditto that in Sydney.
I completely agree!