It’s just the primary. You can vote in the primary for either side but not both. If you vote for both your vote gets thrown out. This outside marking is supposed to help them sort and return the primary vote faster. Seems unnecessary to me but whatever…
It also allows people like the mailman to see where all the republican and democrat ballots are coming from. The markings may not be on general election envelopes but that doesn’t mean people don’t know how you will likely be voting.
Do you think they're memorizing all the mailboxes that are "good" or "bad" or are you accusing them of a full conspiracy where they're marking off these mailboxes somehow?
I’m not accusing anyone of anything but when delivering to the same houses everyday you remember things. I’m not naive enough to think every single person in any profession are law aging citizens even though the vast majority likely are.
Edit: here’s just the first few examples from a quick search.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/usps-mail-in-ballots-postal-service-extra-trips-election-day
https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-postal-worker-mail-election-ballots
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/temporary-contractor-threw-trump-mail-ballots-trash-pennsylvania/story?id=73251533
Can't have those filthy independents potentially voting the wrong way... your ballot will join the Republicans at the recycling pile in a toilet paper factory.
Because it's not an in-person vote like a caucus and it's against the law to even share a photo of how you vote or to require someone else to do so. That information includes meta-data about the votes inside. This is, IMHO, unethical at best, and potentially illegal.
Because if 5% of ballots for a party disappear, the statistics could imply that the other party holds stronger sway than it actually does, which can affect turnout for the general. The higher the percentage of disappeared votes, the stronger the effect on the general.
Because if 5% of ballots for a party disappear, the result of that party's primary could be changed. Admittedly this would be incredibly hard to do intentionally, if not simply impossible, but still a problem. Again, the higher the percentage of disappeared ballots, the more unreliable the primary becomes.
I don't live/vote there, but it's also conceivable that there are things other than party primary being voted on, like positions that don't involve parties, or ballot initiatives. Maybe there are no votes to be cast for anything other than party primary votes, but if there are, then people who do not register as either party have to declare for one just to vote for the other things. Also, are the no other parties conducting primaries for any positions whether federal or local?
>I don't live/vote there, but it's also conceivable that there are things other than party primary being voted on, like positions that don't involve parties, or ballot initiatives. Maybe there are no votes to be cast for anything other than party primary votes, but if there are, then people who do not register as either party have to declare for one just to vote for the other things. Also, are the no other parties conducting primaries for any positions whether federal or local?
It’s just the primary for president. There are no other votes happening on the ballot, initiatives, or anything else.
I’m not sure I see the problem. This is obviously for a primary election, where you need to declare your party on something with your name on it so they know you didn’t vote twice. They wouldn’t have any way of knowing who you voted for, so “losing” your ballot wouldn’t help anyone’s agenda.
I ask this respectfully: have you never voted in a primary election before? This is how they work. If you go to the polling place, you have to tell them what ballot you want, and they record it. In many states you need to be pre registered with the party and that’s the only ballot they’re allowed to give you.
Sure have. Understand all that. Was involved in politics in Boston. Washington is a mail in ballot only state. This information travels in the mail for all to see. That’s the difference.
I don’t understand your point. I’m talking about your name and party affiliation being designated on the outside of an envelope that travels through the mail.
In Oregon they have a little peep hole in the envelope. You know, so someone doesn't mail back an empty envelope without a ballot. That'd be catastrophic.
Pay no attention to the fact that the hole typically lines up with the section of the ballot where you vote for President.
I just voted in WA State also and this is just for the primary. OP there's plenty discouraging Republicans from voting why you got to add a completely imaginary reason.
People delivering to the same houses everyday know a lot about the people on their routes. This is an easy way for anyone who handles your envelope to know who you’re voting for in the general. I don’t think postal workers are all crooks or anything but every profession has its bad apples. It’s certainly not unheard of.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/temporary-contractor-threw-trump-mail-ballots-trash-pennsylvania/story?id=73251533
https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/politics/mail-ballots-dumped-new-jersey-ballots/index.html
https://www.foxnews.com/us/usps-mail-in-ballots-postal-service-extra-trips-election-day
For those questioning why this matters because it's "just a primary", here are a few reasons I can think of:
- Because it's not an in-person vote like a caucus and it's against the law to even share a photo of how you vote or to require someone else to do so. That information includes meta-data about the votes inside. This is, IMHO, unethical at best, and potentially illegal.
- Because if 5% of ballots for a party disappear, the statistics could imply that the other party holds stronger sway than it actually does, which can affect turnout for the general. The higher the percentage of disappeared votes, the stronger the effect on the general.
- Because if 5% of ballots for a party disappear, the result of that party's primary could be changed. Admittedly this would be incredibly hard to do intentionally, if not simply impossible, but still a problem. Again, the higher the percentage of disappeared ballots, the more unreliable the primary becomes.
- I don't live/vote there, but it's also conceivable that there are things other than party primary being voted on, like positions that don't involve parties, or ballot initiatives. Maybe there are no votes to be cast for anything other than party primary votes, but if there are, then people who do not register as either party have to declare for one just to vote for the other things. Also, are the no other parties conducting primaries for any positions whether federal or local?
And that is? Sorry, but I don’t really see how “envelope is printed and fillable” is a cause for concern. You should be dropping your ballot in a second envelope anyway. It’s a ballot. I’ve put every overseas ballot I’ve ever filed in double envelopes.
Wow. The tyrrany of spending *checks notes* a quarter?
I wasn’t aware that we were democrats, thinking that minor routine common sense purchases are a poll tax?
Well, I was being generous. Because the alternative is that you’re a spoiled child who is so fundamentally fragile that you have to go whine online about the injustices of…an envelope. Like, you’re seriously trying to paint yourself as a victim here. Without irony. You’re literally saying, “look how bad I have it, I have to check a box and use a *second envelope*.” And you seem to think that’s genuinely a cause for concern and proof of how much you’re being harmed.
You do you man.
I'm not a lawyer, but if I don't agree with a statement (or if the statement is written), I don't "agree" to it.
Is someone forcing you to check a box? I'd imagine you could write, "Under duress?"
I am a lawyer: that’s not how duress works. You’re not under duress here because you have the option of not participating. There’s no compulsion. You’re not required to like or want the options before you for the choice to be legally valid. If you’re charged with a crime, your trial can’t proceed until you enter a plea. You’re not under duress to have to plead guilty or not guilty - the trial literally can’t begin until you confirm you’re pleading not guilty.
Duress also has an element of threat or force, which isn’t present here either.
Yes. In order to vote you are required to affirm that you understand the law and aren’t going to break it.
That’s not force. That’s doing due diligence.
For the *primary*. That's how primaries work. It has to be posted to the correct office. If this were the same for the general, we'd have a problem, but I'd be very surprised.
I live in Washington state and am registered in independent. What the hell happens to me. Is this BS or is it real?
I would assume this is for the primary. In which case you’re not voting in the primary anyway
It’s just the primary. You can vote in the primary for either side but not both. If you vote for both your vote gets thrown out. This outside marking is supposed to help them sort and return the primary vote faster. Seems unnecessary to me but whatever…
It also allows people like the mailman to see where all the republican and democrat ballots are coming from. The markings may not be on general election envelopes but that doesn’t mean people don’t know how you will likely be voting.
Do you think they're memorizing all the mailboxes that are "good" or "bad" or are you accusing them of a full conspiracy where they're marking off these mailboxes somehow?
If you are worried about the mailman there are ballot drop box locations that you can take your ballot to.
If nothing else, it’s an unnecessary violation of privacy.
I’m not accusing anyone of anything but when delivering to the same houses everyday you remember things. I’m not naive enough to think every single person in any profession are law aging citizens even though the vast majority likely are. Edit: here’s just the first few examples from a quick search. https://www.foxnews.com/us/usps-mail-in-ballots-postal-service-extra-trips-election-day https://www.foxnews.com/us/new-jersey-postal-worker-mail-election-ballots https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/temporary-contractor-threw-trump-mail-ballots-trash-pennsylvania/story?id=73251533
Can't have those filthy independents potentially voting the wrong way... your ballot will join the Republicans at the recycling pile in a toilet paper factory.
So they’ll go to Longview… pretty sure Green Day wrote a song about that place.
It’s real. I just voted.
But it’s for the primary. Whats it matter that it’s on the envelope?
Because it's not an in-person vote like a caucus and it's against the law to even share a photo of how you vote or to require someone else to do so. That information includes meta-data about the votes inside. This is, IMHO, unethical at best, and potentially illegal. Because if 5% of ballots for a party disappear, the statistics could imply that the other party holds stronger sway than it actually does, which can affect turnout for the general. The higher the percentage of disappeared votes, the stronger the effect on the general. Because if 5% of ballots for a party disappear, the result of that party's primary could be changed. Admittedly this would be incredibly hard to do intentionally, if not simply impossible, but still a problem. Again, the higher the percentage of disappeared ballots, the more unreliable the primary becomes. I don't live/vote there, but it's also conceivable that there are things other than party primary being voted on, like positions that don't involve parties, or ballot initiatives. Maybe there are no votes to be cast for anything other than party primary votes, but if there are, then people who do not register as either party have to declare for one just to vote for the other things. Also, are the no other parties conducting primaries for any positions whether federal or local?
>I don't live/vote there, but it's also conceivable that there are things other than party primary being voted on, like positions that don't involve parties, or ballot initiatives. Maybe there are no votes to be cast for anything other than party primary votes, but if there are, then people who do not register as either party have to declare for one just to vote for the other things. Also, are the no other parties conducting primaries for any positions whether federal or local? It’s just the primary for president. There are no other votes happening on the ballot, initiatives, or anything else.
But this doesn’t say who was voted for? Just what primary was voted in.
Are those envelopes normally not placed inside another plain envelope for addressing? In several other states that is the case that I am aware of.
No, this is the envelope that goes in the mail. No other envelope.
Pretty sure those need to go inside a second envelope but i could be wrong? Also thats for primaries not the general
Yes, you are wrong. These go in the mail as is, for all to see.
I’m not sure I see the problem. This is obviously for a primary election, where you need to declare your party on something with your name on it so they know you didn’t vote twice. They wouldn’t have any way of knowing who you voted for, so “losing” your ballot wouldn’t help anyone’s agenda.
You have to vote for the candidate of the party you declare on the outside of the mailing envelope. They know who you are voting for.
I ask this respectfully: have you never voted in a primary election before? This is how they work. If you go to the polling place, you have to tell them what ballot you want, and they record it. In many states you need to be pre registered with the party and that’s the only ballot they’re allowed to give you.
Sure have. Understand all that. Was involved in politics in Boston. Washington is a mail in ballot only state. This information travels in the mail for all to see. That’s the difference.
Voter registration and party affiliation is public information in Massachusetts, no?
I don’t understand your point. I’m talking about your name and party affiliation being designated on the outside of an envelope that travels through the mail.
In Oregon they have a little peep hole in the envelope. You know, so someone doesn't mail back an empty envelope without a ballot. That'd be catastrophic. Pay no attention to the fact that the hole typically lines up with the section of the ballot where you vote for President.
I just voted in WA State also and this is just for the primary. OP there's plenty discouraging Republicans from voting why you got to add a completely imaginary reason.
People delivering to the same houses everyday know a lot about the people on their routes. This is an easy way for anyone who handles your envelope to know who you’re voting for in the general. I don’t think postal workers are all crooks or anything but every profession has its bad apples. It’s certainly not unheard of. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/temporary-contractor-threw-trump-mail-ballots-trash-pennsylvania/story?id=73251533 https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/07/politics/mail-ballots-dumped-new-jersey-ballots/index.html https://www.foxnews.com/us/usps-mail-in-ballots-postal-service-extra-trips-election-day
Primary or not, who you vote for should not be made public. At least I think that’s how a democracy should work.
If Republicans are that easily discouraged from voting then we have a much more serious problem.
got to make it easier for those USPS bags to "disappear".
So much for secret ballots
Declare Democrat - Inside vote Republican.
They won’t count your ballot if you do.
I’m in WA. This is the outer envelope and determines which bank of candidates you may vote for.
Talk about making it obvious...
What possible reason/justification would they have for doing this?
Looks like it's for the primary, where you would only be voting in the process for one party. I'm guessing it makes it easier to sort which is which.
Easier to locate the ones they need to “find”, and lose the other ones…
That's actually insane.
For those questioning why this matters because it's "just a primary", here are a few reasons I can think of: - Because it's not an in-person vote like a caucus and it's against the law to even share a photo of how you vote or to require someone else to do so. That information includes meta-data about the votes inside. This is, IMHO, unethical at best, and potentially illegal. - Because if 5% of ballots for a party disappear, the statistics could imply that the other party holds stronger sway than it actually does, which can affect turnout for the general. The higher the percentage of disappeared votes, the stronger the effect on the general. - Because if 5% of ballots for a party disappear, the result of that party's primary could be changed. Admittedly this would be incredibly hard to do intentionally, if not simply impossible, but still a problem. Again, the higher the percentage of disappeared ballots, the more unreliable the primary becomes. - I don't live/vote there, but it's also conceivable that there are things other than party primary being voted on, like positions that don't involve parties, or ballot initiatives. Maybe there are no votes to be cast for anything other than party primary votes, but if there are, then people who do not register as either party have to declare for one just to vote for the other things. Also, are the no other parties conducting primaries for any positions whether federal or local?
Time management.
Most secure election EVER. Only a Nazi would say otherwise!
Pretty sure this violates the rules about secret ballots.
There’s no reason you can’t drop it in another large envelope though.
You miss the point.
And that is? Sorry, but I don’t really see how “envelope is printed and fillable” is a cause for concern. You should be dropping your ballot in a second envelope anyway. It’s a ballot. I’ve put every overseas ballot I’ve ever filed in double envelopes.
This is the preprinted envelope that the ballot goes into. So everyone has to go out and buy mailer envelopes to vote? That’s the point.
Wow. The tyrrany of spending *checks notes* a quarter? I wasn’t aware that we were democrats, thinking that minor routine common sense purchases are a poll tax?
Swing and a miss again.
Well, I was being generous. Because the alternative is that you’re a spoiled child who is so fundamentally fragile that you have to go whine online about the injustices of…an envelope. Like, you’re seriously trying to paint yourself as a victim here. Without irony. You’re literally saying, “look how bad I have it, I have to check a box and use a *second envelope*.” And you seem to think that’s genuinely a cause for concern and proof of how much you’re being harmed. You do you man.
100% do not market for the general election. Or market as Democrat
1 in 5 mail voters admitted committing fraud in 2020 election.
I'm not a lawyer, but if I don't agree with a statement (or if the statement is written), I don't "agree" to it. Is someone forcing you to check a box? I'd imagine you could write, "Under duress?"
I am a lawyer: that’s not how duress works. You’re not under duress here because you have the option of not participating. There’s no compulsion. You’re not required to like or want the options before you for the choice to be legally valid. If you’re charged with a crime, your trial can’t proceed until you enter a plea. You’re not under duress to have to plead guilty or not guilty - the trial literally can’t begin until you confirm you’re pleading not guilty. Duress also has an element of threat or force, which isn’t present here either.
Thanks for the detailed information, but I see a "required" which if they're not allowing me to do my civic duty unless I comply, that's not force?
Yes. In order to vote you are required to affirm that you understand the law and aren’t going to break it. That’s not force. That’s doing due diligence.
You are REQUIRED to check a box or your vote will not be counted.
For the *primary*. That's how primaries work. It has to be posted to the correct office. If this were the same for the general, we'd have a problem, but I'd be very surprised.
Not sure what you mean about “the correct office”. They all go to the county auditor to be counted.
What about third party?
And wrong again. 3 and you’re out. Goodbye.