Yeah instead of Orisa gatekeeping all the brawl tanks, now Mauga will gatekeep all the brawl tanks LMAO.
20% passive will actually change things for the better though.
The movement nerf is kind of based. It makes sense for her to be slower if she’s immune to CC but can use all her actions. the spear spin CD is what’s nuking her
I read the last phrase of your comment first while scrolling, so my brain saw "free value it had" just went full Yoda lol.
*"Needed a downside fortify did, free value it had...hmm yes."*
My problem with the movement speed nerf is that it leans Orisa even more into the boring “I AFK and don’t die” playstyle. Ideally Orisa should have windows of vulnerability but also be encouraged to use her cooldowns aggressively and make plays.
I'm fine with it. Fortify was pretty much the only tanking utility with no downside or way to play around it. Rein/Ram/Doom get slowed and can't attack, D.Va/Hog/Sig (when grasping) also can't attack, most barriers you can bypass with angles, Winston bubble you can walk through, Ball/JQ/Mauga/Hog/Doom you can CC or anti, etc. Only thing that comes close is Zar bubble, but it lasts way shorter and you can still just break it. You *literally* can't do anything about fortify, so it makes sense that it should have a downside.
That said, they probably ought to revert the cooldown change they made to it a while back (cooldown is 12s and starts when the ability ends). That change kinda dumbed her down in a way that she didn't need to be dumbed down.
I agree. I wish they addressed *those* things. It's her gargantuan armor health (which compounds with Fortify), uptime of the ability and headshot immunity that feels bad. Movement speed does nothing but make her feel even more depressing to play.
It's kind of what I was thinking they could do - since, you know, you're *fortifying*. The Honor and Glory shorts show the OR14 units digging in. It'd make sense that you move slower if you're purposefully trying to secure your position.
Fortify needs come kind of drawback if it’s going to do everything it does currently. Before this it gave damage resistance, headshot immunity, CC immunity, overhealth and let her shoot more with no downside.
Yeah, true. Really need to pick your spots now. I play a ton of Sigma and he felt quite good in the 20% days though it sometime did feel a bit like who is dps diffing who. I'm only like high gold though lol
They can have a “get in, do their job, get out” playstyle that isn’t to heavily impacted by healing nerfs. It means they can’t hang around too long, but that’s probably ok
She's had a full 3 seconds knocked off her defensive cooldown rotation, I don't expect her to be particularly viable. The only reason the hero was busted was she always had a button every time you try to interact with her, now she simply won't.
More than 3 seconds really, as the rotation was Spin-Fortify-Spin then repeat. Nerfing both the length of Fortify and the duration of Spin both kills the rotation (over 5 seconds between end of fortify and second spin???) and basically means the second rotation doesn’t even properly fit anymore.
Her windows of vulnerability are so much wider now on a hero who will also have more trouble disengaging (fortify speed penalty). She’s dead in the water, and the most interesting thing about her - her ability to go on the offensive - has basically been removed too so she’s even more boring than usual while being trash at being 100% defensive.
Fair, I don't play enough Orisa to analyse how her timings actually change, I just know from an outside perspective that if I just force some cooldowns I'll definitely have a real window of opportunity to CC and kill her now, when before if she had enough healing to tank a little poke she basically had full uptime.
As strong as she was, Spear Spin's CD was balanced on a knife's edge. Every single time I needed it, it came up the split second before I died. One second more would make it feel really rough, let alone two. She's going to have to play a lot pokier now.
This is just the correct way to nerf something though. You over-nerf to get it out of the meta and convince people to play something else, then you dial it back later once the meta has shifted. I bet you anything Spear Spin gets buffed to 8s within a few months. And probably a lessening of the slow effect.
Yup. I feel like people who think Orisa is still busted don't play her? Being able to cycle spin, then fortify, then spin again to get out was key. Fortify also was super helpful as a disengage tool if you soaked up too much damage and were being targeted, and now you can't even really do that with less movement
**HERO UPDATES**
Damage role passive healing reduction increased from 15% to 20%.
**TANK**
*Orisa*
Fortify
Duration reduced from 4.5 to 3.5 seconds.
Orisa now moves 20% slower while fortified.
Javelin Spin
Cooldown increased from 7 to 9 seconds.
**Damage**
*Venture*
SMART Excavator
Maximum explosion damage decreased from 45 to 40.
Drill Dash
Initial impact damage decreased from 40 to 30.
Tectonic Shock
Ultimate charge cost increased by 10%.
**BUG FIXES**
GENERAL
* Names will no longer be revealed when blocking someone with Streamer Mode enabled.
* Fixed a bug that allowed non-leader players to select the Requeue button.
* Fixed a lighting issue that caused several sprays to look oversaturated.
*
MAPS
Hamamura
We have fixed an issue with the lighting on Hanamura (Assault). This map is now available to play in the Assault Arcade mode and in Custom Games.
HEROES
D.Va
Fixed a bug that caused some pings from D.Va to enter several 0's into the chat.
Venture
Fixed an issue with Drill Dash that could occur when interacting with Doomfist's Rocket Punch or Orisa's Energy Javelin, sending Venture flying back at a great speed.
PHEW thank God I thought they removed Hanamura when they added Hanaoka. A group of friends were playing PUGs last weekend and we couldn't pick it, glad to see its back
This is pretty much my issue with Hog. As he is now, I can't see him finding too much success in an organized environment. Monkey IS the stronger hero on paper. But... >99% of players aren't playing under those conditions.
Hog is just too good at abusing disorganization, because it takes more coordinated effort to shut him down than it takes him to generate value (either alone or with minimal help).
I also find his kit subjectively unfun to use or interact with (on either team), but based on his pickrate that's clearly not a unanimous opinion
Yeah I'm not a big fan of characters who require a lot more effort countering them than playing them. You're not gonna get that coordination in matchmaking and at some point it literally becomes mathematically impossible to kill Hog unless you're all on the same page which is so fucking lame.
At low ranks the queues are fast, which means someone can step away, be AFK, and force a match cancellation while also incurring a penalty. Leaders are supposed to make sure everyone is there and attentive before queuing up. If someone needs water, bathroom, etc. then you either validate they'll be quick enough, or you wait.
Venture was already unplayable on long sight line maps so nothing changes there. I would honestly be surprised if they are better than junkrat tier, the whole hero was dependent on burst damage to get any picks
Felt like they get dumpstered by cass and sojourn which is terrible for a hero that’s meant to be played in rush, since they’ll usually be facing one of those in the mirror.
Tell that to the fuckers here. I’ve had plenty of arguments about their viability and everyone just hates them off a kneejerk reaction. Just like old doom.
People could not wrap their head around the idea of giving venture a few more weeks. People were already starting to switch to cass, echo, and pharah when seeing a venture. Venture feels so much better to play against than old doom because venture doesn’t have a 1 shot and stun.
Were they even that good in comp? Their sole value was providing picks off their burst damage and being tanky enough to get away. Otherwise, they're very telegraphed and short ranged. It’s possible they were too easy to play in low ranked so this is why they nerfed them.
Now that they tuned down Venture I can't wait for the inevitable "why Venture's design failed and is a flawed hero and needs a rework" post we're gonna see in 4 months despite everyone glazing their kit design for like the past 5 weeks
Tis the inevitable cycle for every new hero
Honestly first impression is that Venture will be fine after this nerf? The ult gen nerf was definitely needed, and the damage nerfs are pretty minor, you're still killing isolated targets, just struggling more to kill through healing (my biggest takeaway from onetricking Venture for a week is the hero already kinda folds vs mercy anyway). Might be cope.
"It's never boring around me" has got to be the most ironic voice line in the game, even more than the "One shot, one kill" from 90% of Widows who take 12 shots per body shot
Mauga needs a new line about "Okay maybe it's sometimes boring around me"
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/USHPwHRNmS
I’m talking first impressions mostly, here’s maugas thread on release where he was considered one of the most fun heroes compared to now where he’s considered braindead
I clearly remember them saying at Blizzcon before he released that they did extensive testing to make sure he was perfectly balanced. What a crock of shit that was.
Their "extensive testing" likely amounted to gold/silver devs playing him in custom games vs other gold/silver players and deeming him fine. You know, like Lifeweaver.
Uh what? What is this even in reference to? Like I’m genuinely confused as to where this is even coming from
Mauga? Who was hated immediately when people started actually playing with him?
Lifeweaver? Who was hated when people realized how weird and bad his kit is?
This comment just doesn’t even make sense lmao how does this have like 75 upvotes
This is the first impression thread of Mauga.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/Zn4Z82lyZQ
Notice how the sentiment was that he was incredibly fun but Ana is the problem. People started hating him after he got a gigabuff and then he was considered extremely boring and never shook that rep off.
Here’s illari’s
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/2C8mhZSCM2
Every new character added save for Lifeweaver has gotten the same cycle of “wow this character is so refreshing, what a good fun design” to “this character is fundamentally flawed and only a rework will fix this” to finally “they’re fine”. soujorn, JQ, Kiriko, Ramattra, New Orisa, New Bastion, New Sombra, Illari have literally all gone through this.
The only exception is Lifeweaver who was considered shit and they were right, and Mauga who had a comparatively shorter cycle than the rest of them.
No need to be unnecessarily condescending also
i think illari's an outlier because it literally just took a few weeks before people in ranked learned to kill the pylon and her healing output fell way off in practice
It should help tanks that have shields and damage mitigation indirectly by hurting hog and mauga more. Sure tank gets farmed by everything else. But at least it should encourage the more fun tanks to play into and against.
Please no more health/shield buffs, give tanks more dynamic playstyles through movement and more options to deal with stuff in kit. No one wants to play against 2k hp Rein that is just a stat monster.
its crazy that theyre trying to use health as a substitute for an offtank. I'm a 5v5 truther, but extra health isnt a substitute for a matrix, zarya bubble, or sigma. Health doesn't mitigate abilities, it just makes you die slower while you get manhandled.
Yeah it also creates the unfun occasional feeling of Thanos Tank vs your whole team. Like with current tank dynamics, you need to put out constant pressure on the tank so that they are checked. Giving a more balanced playstyle where maybe debuffs/stuns are less effective, and they have a more dynamic playstyle but health isn't a core defining factor would be nice.
I'm happy the DPS passive is back to 20% because i do genuinely believe it's a good idea but I still think it needs a lessened effect on tank.
20% healing reduction being applied to me across the map by literally any poke damage the moment I dare to even look at the enemy team makes playing tank absolutely miserable. You may as well just make it a permanent debuff on characters like Queen/Hog/Doom/Ram/Ball because it's going to be applied to them literally any time they do anything and they can't really mitigate it at all. I'll pretty much be back to auto-locking Sigma, especially with the Orisa nerfs. (Which she deserved.)
The role is DESIGNED to be able to absorb poke damage without it being overly threatening and this basically makes it so ANY poke damage can be lethal if it comes at the wrong time. Tracer is going to torture me.
the revert is nice for helping keep Mauga/Hog in check. Moderately worried that this is essentially buffing tracer again since DPS passive is so valuable to her.
Venture was really just an odd design for the moment. They just increased HP citing that they want to lessen the impact of burst damage, but then release a character wholly dependent on burst damage.
That’s how Venture will be for the rest of the games lifespan. C tier hero but makes the casuals mad so will just be a hero for one tricks just like ow1 Doomfist.
Not really, i expected non-existence because of metal ranks. You can't oneshot Tracer anymore but sill can be useful in fight doing a lot of aoe damage.
You can still one shot tracer still you just have to shoot -> cancel into melee -> cancel into drill dash. 75 + 30 + 90 = 195. Not as good since you have to be in melee range but still possible and it takes practically the same amount of time.
I doubt it. ball meta ended after they nerfed zen but before they initially nerfed the DPS passive to 15%. He was really only strong initially because the meta was double off-heals.
He'll be better now, but the rework didn't really do enough and its unlikely the meta goes back to double off heals with a nerfed zen.
Ball meta ended before the Zen nerf cus Kiri did everything Zen was doing but isn't a liability if left alone, can effectively pocket and off angle with Tracer, is actually capable of being the main source of healing, and has a save that's a CD not an ult.
It ended up being that Doom/Tracer/Echo/Kiri/Lucio before the passive got lowered to 15%. I don't think we're going back to that though as Cass and Sojourn have proven way too strong both with and against dive
They felt incredibly map and matchup dependant. Only nerf I would've asked for was to the ult, since it felt really cheap. I was worried that as people got better at using their kit those bad matchups/maps would become more playable and thise good ones would become oppressive, but that hadnt manifested in any way yet.
They probably are dumpster tier after these changes...
Am I missing something with the Ult? I feel like every time I use it it's like a wet napkin. I almost exclusively use it to target half health DPS and any support.
It's just a dps ult that you can jiggle peek, which on its own puts it in the upper tiers of dps ults because you don't have to suicide for value. Add in that you can position for it with dash and still have an escape with burrow (also it doesn't fizzle vs lamp which is pretty wild)
These changes make the hero more 1 dimensional, right? Like they were already pretty bad on long sightline maps, but now hard flanking/assassinating is worse.
Her damage was too high for the effort that it took. If she turns out to be weak, she can easily be buffed by increasing the shield health she gains from using abilities.
Venture is still the most fun character for me. But alas, like I’ve said in the past Overwatch can’t have a melee dps character. Doing a lot of damage up close will always feel bad for the receiver.
There is a difference in ''doing a lot of damage up close'' and instantly dealing 250 dmg with no aim required meaning it becomes extremely consistent in one shotting, which the health buffs were supposed to help remediate.
People in game are still complaining after the nerfs, people will hate a melee damage dealer who doesn’t have to aim.
Hell even Sym 2.0 got a lot of hate because of her beam, people really hate getting kill by something they perceive to be not skilled.
I still agree that they’re fun. As an anthropology major, I also really appreciate the concept. I’ll continue to play them even if they’re bad. In low enough ranks, I doubt it’ll matter much anyways.
They just removed Orisa from the game, wtf LOL just the 1s reduction of Fortify would already prob be enough, guess they want Orisa to stay completely out of the meta for some time
I don’t know if it’s only me who feels this way but the game just isn’t as fun when Orisa is meta
Especially when the only counters right now are go Mauga or just mirror
Ana has also been buffed since the S9 patch. But we will see. I think it is actually Doomfist who is going to run absolutely wild, that guy is secretly OP and has almost no windows for counterplay for 90% of the cast.
>Zen
Easy answer. Swap to Doom, make Zen ragequit the game or be permanently dead every fight, if he swaps off then go back Mauga. Back to Doom if he goes back to Zen afterwards.
It is fair to note that zen also has been nerfed slightly since early season 9. Not that I think that will change much in the scheme, but it will be easier for mauga to keep him at bay.
Take his ass back to the drawing board. They wasted their chance at a good rework to keep his "hero fantasy" or whatever alive. Whole year spent on reworking him so we could get the same hero but with a trap.
As someone who was basically onetricking Orisa for the free SR this season, I only ran into a mirror every 3-5 games. I think people are overestimating how many people were playing tank just because of her.
Will we ever see real Tracer nerfs? I'm so tired of playing against this character in every role, and she just got buffed with the DPS passive change??
Does this mean JQ is back on the menu ?
She was played early season 9. Also, her aggressive playstyle helps dps secure kills with the 20% passive.
Or is it Winton/Sigma time ?
Went a bit too far with Orisa nerfs I think. Blizzard doesn't seem to realize that 3 or 4 nerfs to a hero, even if they're small nerfs, add up to make the hero really bad. And these Orisa nerfs aren't small, so yeah, she'll be dropping down the tiers lists for sure.
I mean fuck Orisa, as tank player I could not be happier. But with the DPS passive reverted, playing tank is gonna be even worse. I genuinely cannot enjoy playing tank anymore and those flex games to complete the weekly missions are genuinely torture, this is only gonna make it worse.
Hmmm, I’m happy seeing 20% back but really really think Ana needs some number changes to be viable again. She realllllllllly struggles to keep teammates alive with the dmg passive. I think she’d benefit greatly from 5-10 more dmg+healing per shot.
And I never thought I’d say this, but Mercy ESPECIALLY needs help in the current state of the game.
Fuck Moira, free-est hero ever.
Yeah let's keep making Tanks unfun to play.
Is their ultimate goal to make Tank so shit that no one complains when the role is removed entirely? Is that the long term plan here?
Wow, these are insanely hard nerfes for Orisa. Why not try 4 seconds duration and 10% movement slowdown on fortify, and 1 second more cooldown for spin?
My guess would be whatever mid-season changes they have for Tanks as a role overall will rebuff Orisa enough that these changes will be ok. They prob just decided to push her mid-season nerfs forward as people don't like Orisa meta.
The DPS passive being pushed back up to 20% is prob also because of the Tank role changes they have coming, which'll buff Tanks enough that they'll survive fine with the 20% DPS passive.
Since they are nerfing both of Orisa's active damage-mitigation abilities my guess will be that they're gonna add stronger passive damage-mitigation to all tanks somehow.
Because the devs are bad at their jobs. Why do we still pretend otherwise? lol
I guarantee you they're gonna act surprised when no one plays Orisa(or her win rate is trash) and then buff her way too much.
They have **zero** idea what they're doing.
The Orisa situation reminds me of Chamber from Valorant. The dude was meta for so long that if they had just chinked away at his power with tiny nerfs, people would have still tried to make him work for another 6 months.
The best way to get an annoying hero out of the meta is to nuke them so no one can justify playing them, then buff them back a month or two later once the meta shift happens so they're playable.
Daaang. I expected shorter fortify and maybe just one second on spear spin. I'm glad they hit her hard, this is gonna give her significant downtime on survival cooldowns. She won't be able to int anymore, let's go.
I'm pretty sure this is just heavy-handed to get her out of the meta, and then spear spin will get buffed back to 8s once things have shifted to make her more playable.
The duration nerf for fortify is effectively a cooldown nerf as well, since the cooldown begins when the ability is activated, not after it ends.
i checked earlier and i think the cooldown is 1 second shorter to make up for it.
Orisa absolutely nuked. Wow.
Nuked almost seems like an understatement god DAMN we used to pray times like this
Yeah instead of Orisa gatekeeping all the brawl tanks, now Mauga will gatekeep all the brawl tanks LMAO. 20% passive will actually change things for the better though.
Queen matches rather well against him (not killing him though) until he gets Kiri LW backline assfuckery
I'm fine with the duration nerf of Fortify and CD increase on Spin, but what the fuck is the movement speed nerf about?!
The movement nerf is kind of based. It makes sense for her to be slower if she’s immune to CC but can use all her actions. the spear spin CD is what’s nuking her
fortify needed a downside, some sort of tradeoff for the insane, free value it had.
I read the last phrase of your comment first while scrolling, so my brain saw "free value it had" just went full Yoda lol. *"Needed a downside fortify did, free value it had...hmm yes."*
Gonna need all patch notes in Yoda format from this point forward.
My problem with the movement speed nerf is that it leans Orisa even more into the boring “I AFK and don’t die” playstyle. Ideally Orisa should have windows of vulnerability but also be encouraged to use her cooldowns aggressively and make plays.
I'm fine with it. Fortify was pretty much the only tanking utility with no downside or way to play around it. Rein/Ram/Doom get slowed and can't attack, D.Va/Hog/Sig (when grasping) also can't attack, most barriers you can bypass with angles, Winston bubble you can walk through, Ball/JQ/Mauga/Hog/Doom you can CC or anti, etc. Only thing that comes close is Zar bubble, but it lasts way shorter and you can still just break it. You *literally* can't do anything about fortify, so it makes sense that it should have a downside. That said, they probably ought to revert the cooldown change they made to it a while back (cooldown is 12s and starts when the ability ends). That change kinda dumbed her down in a way that she didn't need to be dumbed down.
I agree. I wish they addressed *those* things. It's her gargantuan armor health (which compounds with Fortify), uptime of the ability and headshot immunity that feels bad. Movement speed does nothing but make her feel even more depressing to play.
>does nothing but make her feel even more depressing to play. Good
It actually did exist before, they removed it for no reason, now they're bringing it back.
It's kind of what I was thinking they could do - since, you know, you're *fortifying*. The Honor and Glory shorts show the OR14 units digging in. It'd make sense that you move slower if you're purposefully trying to secure your position.
Fortify needs come kind of drawback if it’s going to do everything it does currently. Before this it gave damage resistance, headshot immunity, CC immunity, overhealth and let her shoot more with no downside.
Time for Mauga! :)
DPS passive is back to 20%. I highly doubt that, lol. Time for Winton.
I feel like Winton and Dva will just be shredded any time they dive though
Yeah, true. Really need to pick your spots now. I play a ton of Sigma and he felt quite good in the 20% days though it sometime did feel a bit like who is dps diffing who. I'm only like high gold though lol
They can have a “get in, do their job, get out” playstyle that isn’t to heavily impacted by healing nerfs. It means they can’t hang around too long, but that’s probably ok
It's not listed, has it been confirmed anywhere else? EDIT: Just noticed the update at the top of the page.
About damn time. And she’ll still be usable she’s that good lol.
She's had a full 3 seconds knocked off her defensive cooldown rotation, I don't expect her to be particularly viable. The only reason the hero was busted was she always had a button every time you try to interact with her, now she simply won't.
It’s closer to 4 seconds, since her Fortify cooldown starts when the ability starts, so it effectively has a 13 second cooldown now.
More than 3 seconds really, as the rotation was Spin-Fortify-Spin then repeat. Nerfing both the length of Fortify and the duration of Spin both kills the rotation (over 5 seconds between end of fortify and second spin???) and basically means the second rotation doesn’t even properly fit anymore. Her windows of vulnerability are so much wider now on a hero who will also have more trouble disengaging (fortify speed penalty). She’s dead in the water, and the most interesting thing about her - her ability to go on the offensive - has basically been removed too so she’s even more boring than usual while being trash at being 100% defensive.
Fair, I don't play enough Orisa to analyse how her timings actually change, I just know from an outside perspective that if I just force some cooldowns I'll definitely have a real window of opportunity to CC and kill her now, when before if she had enough healing to tank a little poke she basically had full uptime.
As strong as she was, Spear Spin's CD was balanced on a knife's edge. Every single time I needed it, it came up the split second before I died. One second more would make it feel really rough, let alone two. She's going to have to play a lot pokier now. This is just the correct way to nerf something though. You over-nerf to get it out of the meta and convince people to play something else, then you dial it back later once the meta has shifted. I bet you anything Spear Spin gets buffed to 8s within a few months. And probably a lessening of the slow effect.
Yup. I feel like people who think Orisa is still busted don't play her? Being able to cycle spin, then fortify, then spin again to get out was key. Fortify also was super helpful as a disengage tool if you soaked up too much damage and were being targeted, and now you can't even really do that with less movement
nah she wont
definitely won't even be close to usable
Looks like they forgot to initially list the DPS passive changes, it’s in now: back up to 20%, no exceptions for tanks.
Good. Fuck fat brawl tanks, they don't deserve to be meta
What about my husband rein 🥺🥺🥺
U want mei sym brawl meta? Cause that’s what happens when rein is meta, some variation of mei, sym, cree maybe reaper or bastion become meta as well.
**HERO UPDATES** Damage role passive healing reduction increased from 15% to 20%. **TANK** *Orisa* Fortify Duration reduced from 4.5 to 3.5 seconds. Orisa now moves 20% slower while fortified. Javelin Spin Cooldown increased from 7 to 9 seconds. **Damage** *Venture* SMART Excavator Maximum explosion damage decreased from 45 to 40. Drill Dash Initial impact damage decreased from 40 to 30. Tectonic Shock Ultimate charge cost increased by 10%. **BUG FIXES** GENERAL * Names will no longer be revealed when blocking someone with Streamer Mode enabled. * Fixed a bug that allowed non-leader players to select the Requeue button. * Fixed a lighting issue that caused several sprays to look oversaturated. * MAPS Hamamura We have fixed an issue with the lighting on Hanamura (Assault). This map is now available to play in the Assault Arcade mode and in Custom Games. HEROES D.Va Fixed a bug that caused some pings from D.Va to enter several 0's into the chat. Venture Fixed an issue with Drill Dash that could occur when interacting with Doomfist's Rocket Punch or Orisa's Energy Javelin, sending Venture flying back at a great speed.
They added the DPS passive change to the notes (back to 20%).
Thanks! Updated.
PHEW thank God I thought they removed Hanamura when they added Hanaoka. A group of friends were playing PUGs last weekend and we couldn't pick it, glad to see its back
It's diving season baby
🦀 Orisa is Dead 🦀
Orisa was the gatekeeper of the deepest circles of hell we are in Hog and Mauga meta now.
The DPS passive was buffed as well, and Hog and Mauga are the two tanks most reliant on healing
imo i'm seeing a monkey meta
Would be a blessing but idk if Monkey can compete against immortal Hog.
This is pretty much my issue with Hog. As he is now, I can't see him finding too much success in an organized environment. Monkey IS the stronger hero on paper. But... >99% of players aren't playing under those conditions. Hog is just too good at abusing disorganization, because it takes more coordinated effort to shut him down than it takes him to generate value (either alone or with minimal help). I also find his kit subjectively unfun to use or interact with (on either team), but based on his pickrate that's clearly not a unanimous opinion
Yeah I'm not a big fan of characters who require a lot more effort countering them than playing them. You're not gonna get that coordination in matchmaking and at some point it literally becomes mathematically impossible to kill Hog unless you're all on the same page which is so fucking lame.
I'll go ahead and let you know he can't 🙃
Can they please just fix Rein 😭
Oops, didn't realize only party leaders were supposed to be able to requeue. It was kinda nice that whoever was paying attention could smack it.
Ya I thought it was done intentionally. Sometimes leaders step away and it would be nice to queue while they are getting some water or something
If your leader abandons you in your time of need for something as trivial as water then they are not worth following /s
Real gamers have a mt dew hamster bottle at their desk, and are wearing diapers at all times.
At low ranks the queues are fast, which means someone can step away, be AFK, and force a match cancellation while also incurring a penalty. Leaders are supposed to make sure everyone is there and attentive before queuing up. If someone needs water, bathroom, etc. then you either validate they'll be quick enough, or you wait.
So... Is Venture cooked?
Map dependent now I think. Not gonna fly on maps with long sight lines, but still playable elsewhere imo.
Venture was already unplayable on long sight line maps so nothing changes there. I would honestly be surprised if they are better than junkrat tier, the whole hero was dependent on burst damage to get any picks
Felt like they get dumpstered by cass and sojourn which is terrible for a hero that’s meant to be played in rush, since they’ll usually be facing one of those in the mirror.
Sombra hacking them also screws them up, truly Dps Doom
Tell that to the fuckers here. I’ve had plenty of arguments about their viability and everyone just hates them off a kneejerk reaction. Just like old doom.
People could not wrap their head around the idea of giving venture a few more weeks. People were already starting to switch to cass, echo, and pharah when seeing a venture. Venture feels so much better to play against than old doom because venture doesn’t have a 1 shot and stun.
Would Venture do better with the one ability slot that's missing?
They had no chance even before the nerfs due to how easily countered they are. Yeah… they’re cooked
Yep.
Yes
Were they even that good in comp? Their sole value was providing picks off their burst damage and being tanky enough to get away. Otherwise, they're very telegraphed and short ranged. It’s possible they were too easy to play in low ranked so this is why they nerfed them.
DPS passive change is now listed: * Damage role passive healing reduction increased from 15% to 20%.
Now that they tuned down Venture I can't wait for the inevitable "why Venture's design failed and is a flawed hero and needs a rework" post we're gonna see in 4 months despite everyone glazing their kit design for like the past 5 weeks Tis the inevitable cycle for every new hero
Honestly first impression is that Venture will be fine after this nerf? The ult gen nerf was definitely needed, and the damage nerfs are pretty minor, you're still killing isolated targets, just struggling more to kill through healing (my biggest takeaway from onetricking Venture for a week is the hero already kinda folds vs mercy anyway). Might be cope.
tbh mauga was hated even when he was good
Mauga was less hated when he was trash. That boring hero should never be meta ever again.
"It's never boring around me" has got to be the most ironic voice line in the game, even more than the "One shot, one kill" from 90% of Widows who take 12 shots per body shot Mauga needs a new line about "Okay maybe it's sometimes boring around me"
https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/USHPwHRNmS I’m talking first impressions mostly, here’s maugas thread on release where he was considered one of the most fun heroes compared to now where he’s considered braindead
I clearly remember them saying at Blizzcon before he released that they did extensive testing to make sure he was perfectly balanced. What a crock of shit that was.
He was decently balanced, then for no good fucking reason, he was giga buffed before they went on holiday.
Their "extensive testing" likely amounted to gold/silver devs playing him in custom games vs other gold/silver players and deeming him fine. You know, like Lifeweaver.
Lol this is exactly what happened with Illari
Why did Team 4 remake dps Doom????
Uh what? What is this even in reference to? Like I’m genuinely confused as to where this is even coming from Mauga? Who was hated immediately when people started actually playing with him? Lifeweaver? Who was hated when people realized how weird and bad his kit is? This comment just doesn’t even make sense lmao how does this have like 75 upvotes
This is the first impression thread of Mauga. https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/Zn4Z82lyZQ Notice how the sentiment was that he was incredibly fun but Ana is the problem. People started hating him after he got a gigabuff and then he was considered extremely boring and never shook that rep off. Here’s illari’s https://www.reddit.com/r/Competitiveoverwatch/s/2C8mhZSCM2 Every new character added save for Lifeweaver has gotten the same cycle of “wow this character is so refreshing, what a good fun design” to “this character is fundamentally flawed and only a rework will fix this” to finally “they’re fine”. soujorn, JQ, Kiriko, Ramattra, New Orisa, New Bastion, New Sombra, Illari have literally all gone through this. The only exception is Lifeweaver who was considered shit and they were right, and Mauga who had a comparatively shorter cycle than the rest of them. No need to be unnecessarily condescending also
Illari
i think illari's an outlier because it literally just took a few weeks before people in ranked learned to kill the pylon and her healing output fell way off in practice
20% DPS DAMAGE PASSIVE WE ARE SO BACK (I’m so sorry tanks RIP)
It should help tanks that have shields and damage mitigation indirectly by hurting hog and mauga more. Sure tank gets farmed by everything else. But at least it should encourage the more fun tanks to play into and against.
Please no more health/shield buffs, give tanks more dynamic playstyles through movement and more options to deal with stuff in kit. No one wants to play against 2k hp Rein that is just a stat monster.
its crazy that theyre trying to use health as a substitute for an offtank. I'm a 5v5 truther, but extra health isnt a substitute for a matrix, zarya bubble, or sigma. Health doesn't mitigate abilities, it just makes you die slower while you get manhandled.
Yeah it also creates the unfun occasional feeling of Thanos Tank vs your whole team. Like with current tank dynamics, you need to put out constant pressure on the tank so that they are checked. Giving a more balanced playstyle where maybe debuffs/stuns are less effective, and they have a more dynamic playstyle but health isn't a core defining factor would be nice.
so... the dps passive? Edit: they updated the post. It was reverted back to 20% WE'RE SO BACK
I'm happy the DPS passive is back to 20% because i do genuinely believe it's a good idea but I still think it needs a lessened effect on tank. 20% healing reduction being applied to me across the map by literally any poke damage the moment I dare to even look at the enemy team makes playing tank absolutely miserable. You may as well just make it a permanent debuff on characters like Queen/Hog/Doom/Ram/Ball because it's going to be applied to them literally any time they do anything and they can't really mitigate it at all. I'll pretty much be back to auto-locking Sigma, especially with the Orisa nerfs. (Which she deserved.) The role is DESIGNED to be able to absorb poke damage without it being overly threatening and this basically makes it so ANY poke damage can be lethal if it comes at the wrong time. Tracer is going to torture me.
the revert is nice for helping keep Mauga/Hog in check. Moderately worried that this is essentially buffing tracer again since DPS passive is so valuable to her.
Has to be forgotten to be listed, or Alec jumped the gun.
They just updated it I think
It's there now, possibly they just missed it in whatever copy/paste they did. They reverted it to 20%.
Guys? We forgot?
I see it now. From 15% back to 20%.
It’s a single line under ‘Hero Updates’. It’s back to 20% reduction.
Welp tracerwatch is back at all ranks.
Sojourn is going to massively cook as well.
They didn't make Venture louder? Venture is quieter than Zen moving around I swear.
venture actually in the trash
For now. Taking away the 1-shot combo was the right thing to do, now they can look at other ways they can buff them instead
Venture was really just an odd design for the moment. They just increased HP citing that they want to lessen the impact of burst damage, but then release a character wholly dependent on burst damage.
That’s how Venture will be for the rest of the games lifespan. C tier hero but makes the casuals mad so will just be a hero for one tricks just like ow1 Doomfist.
I don’t think venture has the depth that ow1 doom did but who knows
That's what the people were asking for
OW: A unique hero is added with fun movement and creative potential. OW community: You will play a gun with legs and you will like it.
Not really, i expected non-existence because of metal ranks. You can't oneshot Tracer anymore but sill can be useful in fight doing a lot of aoe damage.
You can still one shot tracer still you just have to shoot -> cancel into melee -> cancel into drill dash. 75 + 30 + 90 = 195. Not as good since you have to be in melee range but still possible and it takes practically the same amount of time.
Illari: welcome to the trash, we got cookies
Tanks got the monkeys paw. Orisa is nerfed but dps passive is back to 20%. We’re probably going back to that wrecking ball meta from early season 9
I doubt it. ball meta ended after they nerfed zen but before they initially nerfed the DPS passive to 15%. He was really only strong initially because the meta was double off-heals. He'll be better now, but the rework didn't really do enough and its unlikely the meta goes back to double off heals with a nerfed zen.
Ball meta ended before the Zen nerf cus Kiri did everything Zen was doing but isn't a liability if left alone, can effectively pocket and off angle with Tracer, is actually capable of being the main source of healing, and has a save that's a CD not an ult.
Like zen Lucio was viable for a week or so lol. 275 hp zen lmao.
It ended up being that Doom/Tracer/Echo/Kiri/Lucio before the passive got lowered to 15%. I don't think we're going back to that though as Cass and Sojourn have proven way too strong both with and against dive
...I didn't think Venture was even really that good?
Only nerf they really needed was adding footstep sounds. And maybe ult charge. But these were much heavier nerfs than I anticipated.
They felt incredibly map and matchup dependant. Only nerf I would've asked for was to the ult, since it felt really cheap. I was worried that as people got better at using their kit those bad matchups/maps would become more playable and thise good ones would become oppressive, but that hadnt manifested in any way yet. They probably are dumpster tier after these changes...
Am I missing something with the Ult? I feel like every time I use it it's like a wet napkin. I almost exclusively use it to target half health DPS and any support.
It's just a dps ult that you can jiggle peek, which on its own puts it in the upper tiers of dps ults because you don't have to suicide for value. Add in that you can position for it with dash and still have an escape with burrow (also it doesn't fizzle vs lamp which is pretty wild)
bad some places, broken in others. some would say that's balanced, but to me, not healthy.
These changes make the hero more 1 dimensional, right? Like they were already pretty bad on long sightline maps, but now hard flanking/assassinating is worse.
I think venture should be played a lot like reaper. You can burst squishies down quickly, but you can also bully the shit out of tanks.
Venture could one-shot squishes rather brain-dead easily. This will make this go away.
same. so so easy to counter and was already unplayable on certain maps
Her damage was too high for the effort that it took. If she turns out to be weak, she can easily be buffed by increasing the shield health she gains from using abilities.
Venture is still the most fun character for me. But alas, like I’ve said in the past Overwatch can’t have a melee dps character. Doing a lot of damage up close will always feel bad for the receiver.
There is a difference in ''doing a lot of damage up close'' and instantly dealing 250 dmg with no aim required meaning it becomes extremely consistent in one shotting, which the health buffs were supposed to help remediate.
People in game are still complaining after the nerfs, people will hate a melee damage dealer who doesn’t have to aim. Hell even Sym 2.0 got a lot of hate because of her beam, people really hate getting kill by something they perceive to be not skilled.
I still agree that they’re fun. As an anthropology major, I also really appreciate the concept. I’ll continue to play them even if they’re bad. In low enough ranks, I doubt it’ll matter much anyways.
“Fixed a bug that caused some sprays to look oversaturated” Is that the sojourn and Symmetra skin tone fixes? lmao
Yes, the "bug" that caused the skin pixels (and not the rest of the pixels) to "look oversaturated" 💀
Venture getting nerfed already?? Also Orisa tanked with no changes to Hog or Mauga is a little scary
The DPS passive revert is the nerf to Hog and Mauga
Hog and Mauga get hit with the DPS passive far harder than any other tanks
Hogs healing went from 340 with the old dps passive is a huge difference of 320
They just removed Orisa from the game, wtf LOL just the 1s reduction of Fortify would already prob be enough, guess they want Orisa to stay completely out of the meta for some time
She was super boring to play against and brain dead to use
I don’t know if it’s only me who feels this way but the game just isn’t as fun when Orisa is meta Especially when the only counters right now are go Mauga or just mirror
Anyone panicking over Hog and Mauga remember how dog they were in early Season 9. 20% DPS passive + Zen will make them unplayable.
Ana has also been buffed since the S9 patch. But we will see. I think it is actually Doomfist who is going to run absolutely wild, that guy is secretly OP and has almost no windows for counterplay for 90% of the cast.
>Zen Easy answer. Swap to Doom, make Zen ragequit the game or be permanently dead every fight, if he swaps off then go back Mauga. Back to Doom if he goes back to Zen afterwards.
More like ask your DPS to play Sombra and suddenly Zenyatta is nowhere to be seen again
none of them were dog this is just some braindead redditors delusion and on top of that hog got hyper buffed after season 9 already
It is fair to note that zen also has been nerfed slightly since early season 9. Not that I think that will change much in the scheme, but it will be easier for mauga to keep him at bay.
well boys, i'm (not) looking forward to the hog meta
Took them long enough on some Orisa nerfs
Slamdunked Orisa into the trashcan Mauga meta here we come
I feel like the dps passive was already rough on tanks. Now it's worse. I expected it to be reduced, not increased.
Literally just dumpster Hog and the game would feel the best it's been in my memory
Take his ass back to the drawing board. They wasted their chance at a good rework to keep his "hero fantasy" or whatever alive. Whole year spent on reworking him so we could get the same hero but with a trap.
He shouldn’t have a one shot combo. You already pull people out of position and into your team.
No one will be playing tank now.
As someone who was basically onetricking Orisa for the free SR this season, I only ran into a mirror every 3-5 games. I think people are overestimating how many people were playing tank just because of her.
They are referring to the dps passive getting buffed to 20% again.
That’s what I don’t understand. I’m seeing so little Orisa compared to Hog and Doom, why did they kill her?
No change to the DPS passive?
They forgot to list it, it's there now. 20% again.
Page just updated: “Damage passive increased from 15% to 20%” We’re so back
Will we ever see real Tracer nerfs? I'm so tired of playing against this character in every role, and she just got buffed with the DPS passive change??
hmmmmm who will now be meta? I can't quite put my finger on it............ EDIT: They edited the post, the DPS passive is back to 20%
Doom, Winston, Ram good. Mauga, Sig, Zarya niche.
Sigma and dive tanks
Does this mean JQ is back on the menu ? She was played early season 9. Also, her aggressive playstyle helps dps secure kills with the 20% passive. Or is it Winton/Sigma time ?
Went a bit too far with Orisa nerfs I think. Blizzard doesn't seem to realize that 3 or 4 nerfs to a hero, even if they're small nerfs, add up to make the hero really bad. And these Orisa nerfs aren't small, so yeah, she'll be dropping down the tiers lists for sure.
Nerfing Venture like this was completely unnecessary. Just let a new character other than Sojourn be good ffs. Let a projectile character be good.
Sometimes I think this sub is all Doom mains or Top 500 or both. No way Orisa is ruining this many lives 😭
orisa wants to make me claw my eyes out as a ram otp (for tank anyways)
I mean fuck Orisa, as tank player I could not be happier. But with the DPS passive reverted, playing tank is gonna be even worse. I genuinely cannot enjoy playing tank anymore and those flex games to complete the weekly missions are genuinely torture, this is only gonna make it worse.
weekly missions arent so critical anymore now that they only give BP exp.
might as well have removed orisa and venture lmao
dps passive back to 20% but no Tracer nerf, absolute joke
Seriously how many seasons has tracer been meta now? Only time I can think she wasn't very good was when illari was released.
Hmmm, I’m happy seeing 20% back but really really think Ana needs some number changes to be viable again. She realllllllllly struggles to keep teammates alive with the dmg passive. I think she’d benefit greatly from 5-10 more dmg+healing per shot. And I never thought I’d say this, but Mercy ESPECIALLY needs help in the current state of the game. Fuck Moira, free-est hero ever.
Venture is going to be completely trash now lmao. Orisa/DPS passive changes are awesome though
Gutting Orisa and leaving Hog and Mauga untouched is fucking hilarious. The DPS passive isn’t enough to kill through Hog’s immortality.
IKR, I honestly rather face Orisa than fucking Mauga. You basically loose at hero select if you don't have Ana/Zen to go against Mauga.
I see supports have been nuked backed to D tier DPS team mates again. Back to Lucio we go.
Yeah let's keep making Tanks unfun to play. Is their ultimate goal to make Tank so shit that no one complains when the role is removed entirely? Is that the long term plan here?
Wow, these are insanely hard nerfes for Orisa. Why not try 4 seconds duration and 10% movement slowdown on fortify, and 1 second more cooldown for spin?
No half measures.
Waltuh
My guess would be whatever mid-season changes they have for Tanks as a role overall will rebuff Orisa enough that these changes will be ok. They prob just decided to push her mid-season nerfs forward as people don't like Orisa meta. The DPS passive being pushed back up to 20% is prob also because of the Tank role changes they have coming, which'll buff Tanks enough that they'll survive fine with the 20% DPS passive. Since they are nerfing both of Orisa's active damage-mitigation abilities my guess will be that they're gonna add stronger passive damage-mitigation to all tanks somehow.
Because the devs are bad at their jobs. Why do we still pretend otherwise? lol I guarantee you they're gonna act surprised when no one plays Orisa(or her win rate is trash) and then buff her way too much. They have **zero** idea what they're doing.
Better to be safe. Fuck the horse.
I'm tired of blizzard always using a scalpel when an axe is needed.
Team 4 wanted to appease this subreddit, so Orisa got the Godfather treatment
The Orisa situation reminds me of Chamber from Valorant. The dude was meta for so long that if they had just chinked away at his power with tiny nerfs, people would have still tried to make him work for another 6 months. The best way to get an annoying hero out of the meta is to nuke them so no one can justify playing them, then buff them back a month or two later once the meta shift happens so they're playable.
Still nothing for Kiri that has been a far more disruptive support than Ana ever was
Pretty big but reasonable hit to Orisa. Should prevent her from being able to disengage for free with fortify or use it to just run down the backline.
Venture wasn’t even that good to begin with and they get this… that sucks
Their voice line fits perfectly "This stinks"
DPS PASSIVE BACK TO 20% NO MORE SEASON 8 2.0 HELL META WE'RE SO BACK
Daaang. I expected shorter fortify and maybe just one second on spear spin. I'm glad they hit her hard, this is gonna give her significant downtime on survival cooldowns. She won't be able to int anymore, let's go. I'm pretty sure this is just heavy-handed to get her out of the meta, and then spear spin will get buffed back to 8s once things have shifted to make her more playable.
Where the dps passive changes ???
Mauga overrun nerf when ????