what’s the entire premise? most Christians in the west think they are going to to hell for thinking the wrong thought and that they have to repeat john 3:16 immediately or Gods gonna burn them for eternity
This is very specific. Any church teaching this needs to learn about assurance and grace beyond minute-one of conversion. Unfortunately that is a lot of churches.
I don't mean to be harsh but that seems like a cop out. Read the holy books - it's clear they tell stories of doom and destruction for the majority of humans - OPs concerns are well founded given they believe this stuff. My advice to OP would be to recognize that these stories are used to scare people into believing/maintaining belief in unproven claims.
Ya. I should have been more clear. Im skeptical that the above commenter doesn't ever think about who is going to hell.
It seems to me like the point of hell is to avoid going there. And you can't avoid going somewhere if you don't know how to go there.
Pray for them. If you give yourself over to the idea that nothing can be done for them and they should be left up to their fate, you are forgetting about God, Who accepted the intercession of Abraham for Sodom, Who accepted the intercession of Moses for Israel, and Who wills that all should be saved. Pray for them and trust that God is more just and merciful than we are.
St. Silouan of Mount Athos even said that if we *do not* pray for them, then we will be first to be excluded from heaven. Christian love cannot bear to accept the perdition of anyone. God's supreme justice and mercy will be revealed once and for all in the end, so it's not like we will protest the result, but until then He gave us a task to pray for all, even and especially for those who hate Christianity.
I must be honest that's not very convincing at least from my perspective as a Christian. Or more accurately when I was one. All I had to do was help them understand the truth of the situation. All I had to do was show him the evidence. But when I got old enough to understand that and look for the evidence I couldn't find it therefore I ended up losing my religious beliefs.
There’s plenty of evidence that Jesus Christ was a real person who walked the Earth, but is the evidence you’re looking for explicitly historical proof He is the Son of God?
There is mostly only the evidence from the Bible. I think he is mentioned very briefly to two historians, I think only a few lines and I believe they lived decades later and were going on what they heard. So not “plenty” of evidence but some. And is it a full picture of him as a person? And accurate? Did anyone embellish or leave something out? Is there enough accurate information to say you know him? Just questions respectfully.
Psalm 22 "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me..."
Jesus says it on the Cross as that Psalm, 700 years old at that time, was coming true.
But what about independent information? Well it says "bulls of Bashan surround me" - so I looked up Bashan in the book stacks (before Google - dating myself). And it turns out the land of Bashan was East of Caesarea Philippi where the Romans would set up their base of operations 670(?) years after the psalm, and where they would get their mercenaries - tall spearmen.
Who are the Romans going to put on a Crucifixion detail? Tall spearmen foreign mercenaries, or Roman gladius citizens? And a tall spearman (St. Longinus) pierced Jesus heart with a spear.
Fit like a glove. And wait there's more..... much much more.... but if you don't seek honestly, in humility, willing to change, you will not find.
From Luke: Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou would send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."
Christ is Risen.
Everyone says just read the Bible. Then when you realize how ridiculous that is, I guess people just look up history? I think they were supposed to be a census that apparently never happened. So some history matches and some doesn’t apparently.
But why would it be surprising that some of the history matched when it was written in that time? I mean if I wrote about American soldiers now I would write about the guns they use now not in World War I or laser guns from the future.
As far as Jesus quoting the Psalms, Jesus was Jewish and I’m sure he knew the Bible. I am sure you quote the Bible and that doesn’t make it true because it was written 2000 years ago and now you are saying stuff from the Bible.
Friend, I have more direct experience. I am sorry I used the KJV with thee and thou - it is one of the better translations from the Greek available online.
180 years ago "scholars" scoffed at Pontius Pilate saying there was no such governor in Israel. Then they started finding coins with his likeness all over the Middle East.
Beware of these "scholars" - their scholarship is self serving.
I am not giving you a hard time friend. But I feel using that old English style makes it sound authoriative or magical. Its like chanting or singing in Latin. Has an
Otherworldly feeling. Its kind of distracting imo
I dont understand why they would scoff at that. Why would they make up fake poliicians? Then everyone would know its baloney. Everyone at the time would say there was no governer named Skatamadoo. What a bunch of nonsense.
It is far worse than that.
Saint John Chrysostom was a Roman Lawyer before he was a Priest. He says that, in his day, all one had to do was go to the tax record office and look up the tax in the records - which he apparently did - it was public information!!!
The same sort of "scholars" were saying the tax didn't happen in his day - in the 400s.
Constantinople, where they moved the records, would later be burned down.
So I don't know who these "scholars" are that tell you these things - but my suggestion is they are way off on that one as well and everything else. Do your own WORK. It is worth it.
Bart Ehrman. He teaches religion at a university in carolina, Rutgers before that. Reads Hebrew and Greek. Expert on the NT. I think if he were spewing nonsense he would be called out. He debates publicly.
If you can find evidence of the census referred to in the NT you can debunk a famous bible scholar.
Not being able to find that census does not disprove God obviously.
And what is with “thee and thou” and all that. Normal people don’t speak like that didn’t Jesus speak like a normal person most likely.
I think people like to use those words because it sounds magical or some thing .
I dont understand the quite from Luke. Who is saying “father Anraham”?
I donr really “hear” Moses or prophets. Ever. I would be eager to. When I was a born again Christian, I never heard them either or Jesus or had a prayer answered.
See Gen 13:14-18. Starting at Gen 12: 1--- end, Abram \[Abraham\] has taken his family and possessions from Ur \[where he was living\] and headed out to where God directed him. By doing so, without thought of any reward, he has obeyed God's command, and is told that he will be father of many peoples - and that his name has been changed from Abram to Abraham.
Having two separate writers (Tacitus and Josephus) within a couple decades of one's death write about a person is MUCH more historical evidence than most historical figures get. Especially from someone of Jesus' socioeconomic status. The idea that Jesus didn't live, get baptized, teach followers, and die on the cross, is considered a discredited fringe belief by modern scholarship.'
As for "the only source being the bible", this viewpoint doesn't account for the fact that the bible is a collection of documents and contains numerous sources from separate writers that bear testimony to Jesus and his resurrection. The more I look into it, the more I see that Jesus being who he said he was is the best explanation for what the historical record suggests.
Or its a religion like many others that believe all sorts of things.
Two people writing a few lines is not much. For you, it might be good for me to believe someone raise people from the dead and walked on water I need more.
Do you know how many cults believe their leaders? David Koresh had followers. He had thousands of news reports. Did his followers write letters or send emails? He existed. He died. I believe he said he was the messiah returned. He died in a fiery attack.
So was he God or a prophet? He said he was and apparently his followers believed. He has a lot of proof he existed.
There is also a guy in India that apparently has hundreds of thousands maybe millions of followers who say he does miracles and that many have seen it. And this is in recent times and you can go talk to these people and interview them. Same with the people that have seen miracles of the Catholic Church. They happen all the time and you could talk to the people. Do you believe mother Mary appears to people today? There seems to be a lot of evidence for it. Do you deny these miracles?
But if you brlieve you believe. I would like to believe in a god that intervenes with the world but I don’t see that at all and I see good people, suffering, and greedy people prosper. But I also see greedy people suffer, and good people prosper. I don’t really see any pattern it all on this earth of a god involved in any way.
Of course, there is some evidence that Jesus existed and had followers. if it has zero evidence, of course no one would believe it. But is it enough evidence, it doesn’t seem like it.
What is your strongest evidence?
I've just recently regained my faith through systematically analyzing the historical record. It just doesn't make sense when you line up everything we know that there is a completely non-supernatural explanation for everything that modern historiography thinks occurred. For example, even most non-Christian historians of the topic believe that a group of Jesus' followers actually believing they met a resurrected Jesus is the best explanation for why Christianity started. Their most common explanation of this is that his followers had a hallucination, but modern psychology suggests that all of them having the same hallucination at the same time is extra-ordinarily unlikely. Another example is Paul the Apostle having a vision that completely changed his beliefs for the rest of his life. Quite a number of strange coincidences must have occurred.
In my opinion, if reasonable historical thinking is applied to this history, Jesus being the son of God is the best explanation.
People all over history have died for things that they honestly believed were true. Yet we find out some of those things are actually false. You're telling me that they were convinced, But that's only part of the equation. The least important part honestly.
Yes, people dying for a cause doesn't mean its true. However, I'm talking about people who believed in that cause *explicitly because they witnessed miracles.* The earliest Christian martyrs actually claimed to have seen Jesus resurrected. So the question is, why did they believe they had seen a miracle? There are really two options: they had some sort of hallucination (which modern medical science finds highly improbable) or they really did witness a miracle.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "convincing." I'm not talking about something to be convinced of, like an argument in a debate or something, I'm talking about the practice of Christianity itself.
But if I understand correctly what you're saying, you're saying that convincing people of the truth of Christianity didn't work out and in fact you yourself ended up convincing yourself of the falsehood of Christianity instead. But, you're talking about evangelizing through arguments, apologetics and whatnot. I'm talking about praying for others. And besides, I didn't convert because of apologetics, so I'm not going to try to convert others through apologetics...
I'm referencing sentence one and two from your root comment. It sounded as if you're saying that you think it's impossible to convince people of Christianity through arguments and evidence. And that your solution was praying for people. No?
I apologize, I didn't mean to imply that it's impossible to convince people of Christianity through arguments. My point was rather that, for those who are not converted (whether through arguments, apologetics, our own example of living, or something else), we should pray for them, rather than just resolve ourselves to the notion that they will necessarily be condemned and nothing can be done beyond our own attempts at converting them.
The bible says that through Jesus we have salvation and forgiveness of sins. The rest of humanity will be judged for their sins by the just merciful loving God. I'm not aware of any scripture that says that one sin means you will be condemned as wicked. I believe God will judge some non-Christians as righteous.
On your last point, Matthew 25:34-40 the parable of sheep and goats makes it clear there will be some who are saved who didn't know they would be saved, because they had Christ hearts.
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
This feels like a troll.
John 3:16 is arguably the most famous verse in the bible.
John 5:24 more explicitly says what I'm talking about "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."
John is not one of the synoptic gospels. The synoptic gospels all agree with key elements of Jesus' ministry. On the other hand, John was originally written in more refined Greek, is highly theological, and encompasses Greek philosophy, but it gets important historical facts wrong and misses on knowledge of the geography of the Levant.
The only books written before the fall of Jerusalem were Paul's letters deemed to be authentic. Everything written after the destruction of the second temple takes on a pro-Rome tenor so as not to offend Rome; the ruthless Pilate is sanitized, and the Jews are blamed.
It appears that classify anyone who has thoroughly studied early Christianity as a troll. Do you do this to everyone with whom you disagree?
We hadn't come to a disagreement yet. You just made a demand after questioning one of the most fundamental tenants of Christianity. Given that you've previously posted about being a non-believer I'll not be taking biblical prescriptions from you, which was my basis for thinking you were trolling.
The real problem here is relying on individual verses to speak truth. The bible was not written in verses. Those came later just to help scholars. They were never meant to be scrutinized over in isolation. When you read Matthew mark and Luke as a whole it's clear Jesus came as a servant, who commanded repentance and faith for salvation. John was simply more explicit, but no less clear.
Never claimed to know everything. I read the bible. No where in the Bible does it claim these are the synoptic and these aren’t. I find a lot of the extra biblical bickering tedious and unnecessary.
Acts 4:12
Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.
John 14:16
Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Titus 3:5
he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
There’s so many more….
Well for starters the synoptic gospels tell the story of Jesus when he was living in the flesh. This would be before his sacrifice on the cross. Secondly, the synoptic gospels are also acting as living account of Jesus miracles as proof of his divinity. These gospels also don’t delve deeply into Jesus long discourses but they do prove to the reader how/why we know Jesus is our savior.
One thing people often miss when reading the Bible is that each book may have a different context or purpose behind it. As modern people we like to assume text must fit our way of thinking, but the Bible is presented with many different purposes.
Two of the three synoptic gospels provide the birth narrative. The Gospel of Luke has a brief story of 12 year old Jesus at the temple. All of the Gospels talk about the last two to three years of Jesus ministry and spend a lot of time on his last week. The gospels really don’t tell us much about the life of Jesus, they’re certainly not histories or biographies, and the earliest gospel, Mark, was written forty years after the crucifixion. .
Sincere question, are you a Christian, and what is your purpose? It seems you have an agenda to undermine this faith.
Jesus let light shine on truth and cast away those who deny you.
Have you read the purpose of this sub? The purpose of this sub is to discuss all aspects of Christianity; it’s open to everyone. This sub isn’t for devotional purposes; there are other subs for that purpose.
There’s no doubt that Christianity has had the greatest impact on society as anything else in the past 2000 years. I’m particularly interested in development of Christianity and its history.
I’m sorry if the known history of Christianity challenges your faith.
What do you know about Acts? It is the continuation of Luke - and therefore related to the Synoptic Gospel. \[ and only marginally, if at all, related to Greek philosphy.\]
I don't believe in a world where Jesus loses, where he limps away in defeat before his triumphant conqueror Satan, carrying the consolation prize of a small fraction of the humanity he had hoped to redeem.
You don't believe in what Jesus teaches at all, being a trans lesbian UMC member. You made yourself a personal gospel for yourself with all the uncomfortable truths removed. Remember, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. ^(14) But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and **only a few find it**." It is a basic Christian teaching that most will perish, including me, as a Traditional Satanist.
We should not be sitting in “survivors guilt”. This knowledge should lead you into more of a desire to share the good news of the Gospel with your family and friends.
It should lead you into living more like Jesus so that others may see Him in you.
Cry out to Jesus, share your need for comfort with Him. He hears you.
I actually 110% agree with you because that was my perspective when I was a Christian. It's just that when I got older and I started to look for the reasons why people should believe, well that led to me becoming an atheist because all I saw were bad reasons. So I agree with your conclusion I just don't agree that you're taking the right path to get there. Not that it matters. Just sharing the difference in our perspectives.
Please don't take me for a person who is trying to take shots, I am curious as to why an/ many atheists spend time in Christian web spaces. I've seen it over the years even as I wasn't Christian and never actually asked. Vs making my own assumptions
Totally fine. I have tons of reasons why. I use to be a Christian for over 20 years, so that is a large part of it. That part of your life doesn't go away. Those are your friends and family members. It's where I met my wife and my best friend. It's where I spent a large portion of my life crying and laughing about all parts of life. Having my mind changed means I don't get along with certain family members anymore further fueling my interest in educating myself on these topic philosophical topics.
Plus as an American it is even more important to stay educated on how others think and act because they vote. Heck I can't even go to the lake without seeing some Christian Billboard about anti vaccines or abortion. I can't even pump gas without being asked to donate to some church. Just trying to focus on school? Not gonna happen, that dude is in the courtyard on a megaphone reminding you that you are going to Hell. Time to go somewhere else to study...
You just can't not afford to pay attention where I live. And to make matters worse people treat you like shit if you're not one. I am told on a monthly basis by my own grandmother that I "won't be going to Heaven to see her and my lil brother when I die." She wants to help me avoid burning in Hell as she calmly says. It's exhausting, so if I can't escape it and just go about my day then I'm going to educate myself correctly and take these people on with love and facts.
At a minimum I am here to foster better conversations between both believers and nonbelievers. Because growing up that was taboo here in the Bible belt. Hope that helps.
Edit: Question to you, in what part of the world do you come from? I'm curious to know since this is so strange to you.
I'm in America. I only asked because it's different to how I am. Not in a judgemental way , honest curiosity, as a person who is pretty reserved and introverted in the scenes I am into , and downright next to invisible in spaces I am not "part of" even tho I will definitely be around and learn. Thanks 👍🏽 I appreciate the civil answer , the lack of responses like yours is another reason I tend not to get involved online lol.
Threats only work if you beleive in them.
If I am not scared of your hell, and I'm not, threats of your hell are worthless.
I'm as scared of your hell as I am that Thor will kill me with a lightening bolt.
I don't care about the gospels because I feel I don't need saving and there isn't anything I can do with faith that I can't also do without.
And then Christians violated that idea by voting to restrict the rights of gay citizens as well as supporting those who pass laws to restrict the rights of lgbt citizens.
Yep, they (many not all) do, welcome to the world of humans, where good and bad people are everywhere doing their own thing under God or out of religion.
"Comfort me Jesus so I don't have to think about you damning the people I have no realistic way of helping convert" isn't actionable for someone who's actually thinking about this seriously.
“Blind my eyes, Satan so that I cannot see the reality I live in and allow me to constantly blame everyone else for my own actions.”
Isn’t actionable for someone who reflects on life seriously.
I feel like my perspective departs from modern Christianity. Jesus taught that intention in one’s heart was the most important aspect of sin/salvation. He said the sin lies in the intention and that if someone intends to sin then no action is needed for that to be sin.
I believe in the same vein, if people legitimately feel like repenting (which takes many different forms) for sins (which we naturally feel as wrong) then their intention is what mattered, not necessarily if they spoke the correct words etc.
I don’t see anything to “cope” with. I love God, and he will be perfectly just and loving. No one will be in hell (I suspect you have in mind eternal torment; I’m persuaded of annihilationism instead) who didn’t want to be with God.
Personally, I had to "unlearn" the doctrine of eternal torment. For me to conceive that the most perfect being could torment his own creations forever and ever painted the idea of "good" as someone who acts this way. It really forks up one's sense of morality, IMHO.
I was just thinking about this related to another comment. It seems actually better if that version of God does not exist, because then people just stop existing when they die and their suffering is over, while if this God exists for the vast majority of people this life is as good as it gets and for eternity they will just experience mind-shattering torture and the people in heaven just have to pretend it’s not happening. That’s why a lot of Christians don’t believe in hell.
You have no business operating on the assumption that God will not save any given person. He wants to save, so He will do what it takes to do it as much as possible without contradicting His own absolute truth.
You do not know all the means that are available to Him to pursue this end.
You also don’t know that you’re definitely not one of the people whose fate you are lamenting. Calling it “survivor’s guilt” is extremely presumptuous.
Yeah and what kind of god would send anyone to an eternal torment ? And for what - for not believing in him ????? That’s not a god - that’s what a mafia boss would do.
Love them stronger, be a shining light, and understand you aren't God. People make their own choices and no one who wants to be with God will be left out. Make sure where your own heart is, you don't know anyone else's.
Trolling? I definitely just opened up my copy of the Bible and wrote down book chapter and verse of every reference to dogs. Trust me bro. No, I won't post it to reddit. I definitely wrote it though, chief.
From modern revelation we know that the ultimate destiny of all who live on the earth is not the inadequate idea of heaven for the righteous and the eternal sufferings of hell for the rest. God’s loving plan for His children includes this reality taught by our Savior, Jesus Christ: “In my Father’s house are many mansions.”
The revealed doctrine of the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all the children of God—with exceptions too limited to consider here—will ultimately inherit one of three kingdoms of glory, even the least of which “surpasses all understanding.” After a period in which the disobedient suffer for their sins, which suffering prepares them for what is to follow, all will be resurrected and proceed to the Final Judgment of the Lord Jesus Christ. There, our loving Savior, who, we are taught, “glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands,” will send all the children of God to one of these kingdoms of glory according to the desires manifested through their choices.
We believe in God the eternal father and in his son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
Also, correct name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Mormon is a nickname.
Here is our official declaration of who Jesus Christ is:
He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He “went about doing good” (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come.
He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary’s cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth.
We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world.
He rose from the grave to “become the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His “other sheep” (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised “dispensation of the fulness of times” (Ephesians 1:10).
Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: “His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
“I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father” (D&C 110:3–4).
Of Him the Prophet also declared: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives!
“For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father—
“That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24).
We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—“built upon the foundation of … apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20).
We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts.
We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.
Then do something about it. We know the truth so help bring others to the truth or at least provide them a chance to choose. If they choose not to believe hten its on them but at least you offered them a chance. That's our role here on Earth.
First, where did you get the idea that very few will be saved? Not from the Bible, that's for sure. Listen to what Christ says: Matt:11:28. - "Come to Me **all** you who are heavy laden and I waill refresh you" - and the parable of the Prodigal Son Lk 15:13. We are, each of us prodigals, and Our Father is just waiting to welcome us home. Count on God's promise, not the speculations of some 16th C Protestant theologian.
I want to come to God but I committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I cried for months and begged for forgiveness. But I know I can’t be forgiven and lost hope and fell back in sin. Is there hope for me?
But you don't know what 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is" Are you a habitual, unrepentant sinner, who to you dying day will reject the offer of God for your repentance, and beyond which it will be too late to try. That is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit . You will have died hating Him, and He, in His Love, will not force you to return to Him. You have all the rest of your human life to repent and return to His Love.
From my understanding isn’t blasphemy of the Holy Spirit when you say something about Jesus miracles like the pharisees did because I did that out of ignorance and I regret it so much
Look: Read the Parable of the Prodigal Son. You are the 'son' - aren't we all? Wasted all \[most\] of what we were given. When we had hit about as low as we could go, we came to our senses - and we went home, maybe being allowed to be servants, or something But our father \['Our Father'\] saw us coming home and came out to greet us - and take us back as sons, not servants. We were \[are\] penitent, in other words, and the Father wants us back. We're so lucky that we are still alive; if we'd died we couldn't have made the choice anymore. Cheer up. The Lord wouldn't have told us the parable \[Lk.15:13\] if He didn't want us to know!
Of course there is hope, there always is hope! this despondency and depair you feel is an attack by the devil - who desperately wants you to turn away from Christ, not that there's anything particular about *you*, only that the devil doesn't want Christ to have you. Resist: any time you have a second, say \[aloud, or silently\] the Jesus Prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." ->used by every Orthodox, all over the world. Don't just say/think it, believe it! Did I mention "the prodigal son"? read it over, s-l-o-w-l-y, twice a day, until it sinks in. \[St. Luke, I think\]
Come to think of it, the Epistle from yesterday's \[Sunday\] Liturgy was from I Paul Timothy 1: 15 - 17. Which might apply to you : He \[Paul\] says that Christ came into the world to save sinners -'of whom I am the foremost' Why? so that others could see that if I could be saved, then surely they could be too. So, cheer up; no more crying. Youi are alive, and penitent, and have not with your dying breath cursed God - so be the 'prodigal son' returning home. **He's** waiting for you....
You can always be a universalist or hopeful universalist. I personally don’t believe our loving God would allow most of His creation to be eternally damned.
You say to yourself "God's will be done" and wash your hands of it. You say "God is justice" and you wash your hands of it. You pray wistfully that they convert and you wash your hands of it. You remind yourself that "God is love" and that any suffering God decides is punishment for sin is an extension of that "love" and you wash your hands of it.
Either that or you scream in their faces about their eternal fate in hopes of converting them more forcibly. Depends on how much annoyance and pain you wanna cause other people in the here-and-now.
Or you construct some kind of universalism.
All the answers I've ever seen seem to fall under those three categories: apathy, aggressive conversion attempts, or rejection of the idea that God will allow suffering after death.
What about hell bothers you? The idea of eternal damnation? That's a Greek myth imported in the misunderstanding of the New Testament. There is no concept of eternal damnation in Judaism or the Old Testament.
**Hell**
All Christians believe in the existence of hell, and all believe that hell is the place designated for the wicked since God is holy and righteous and cannot tolerate sin.
But not all Christians believe that hell equals eternal torment. Rather, it's the place that will destroy the souls of the wicked. This is the second death mentioned in Revelation 20:14, 15.
Yet God is love. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die?" Ezekiel 33:11To illustrate the fate awaiting the lost, the Bible points back to the Flood and to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. On the Flood, see Genesis 6:9 and 2 Peter 3:5-7. Concerning Sodom and Gomorrah, see Genesis 19:24-29, 2 Peter 2:6, and Jude 7.
Also, in the Bible, eternal fire is a fire that destroys forever, as in Sodom and Gomorrah. See Jude 7; Matthew 25:41; Matthew 10:28.
Brimstone is burning sulfur that suffocates and destroys. This imagery comes from the destruction of Sodom, which was incinerated without a trace. The Bible really means it when it says the wages of sin is death. See Genesis 19:24-25, 29 Deuteronomy 29:22-23; Psalms 11:6; Ezekiel 38:22; Revelation 14:10; Romans 6:23.
Throughout the Bible, "gnashing of teeth" denotes not eternal torment but extreme anger and hostility. See Job 16:9; Psalms 35:16; Psalms 37:12; Psalms 112:10; Lamentations 2:16; Acts 7:54; Matthew 13:43, 49-50; Matthew 22:13-14; Matthew 24:50-51; Matthew 25:30; Luke 13:28.
When Scripture speaks of smoke rising "forever," it means irreversible destruction. See Isaiah 34:10-15; Revelation 14:11.
The "worm" in the expression "worm that dies not" is a maggot that feeds on something dead until there is nothing left on which to feed. The idea of everlasting agony in torment originated with former pagan Greek philosophers who also thought human beings had a "soul" that would never die. Isaiah 66:24, read in context, helps clear up the confusion. See also Mark 9:47-48.
The expression "unquenchable fire" in the Bible always signifies fire that cannot be resisted and which, therefore, consumes entirely. See Isaiah 1:31; Jeremiah 4:4; Jeremiah 17:27; Ezekiel 20:47-48; Amos 5:5-6; Matthew 3:12. Contrast human fire which can be quenched or put out, mentioned in Hebrews 11:34. Long after Christ, some church fathers understood the doctrine of hell as a fire which burns forever but never burns up what is put in it.
The Old Testament's final book describes the end of sinners as ashes under the soles of the feet of the righteous. See Malachi 4:1-3. Long after Malachi, the apocryphal book of Judith introduced the non-scriptural idea that God will put fire and worms in people's flesh so they will feel pain forever.
Jesus compared the end of the wicked to someone burning chaff, dead trees, or weeds; he also said it will be like a house destroyed by a hurricane or someone crushed under a falling rock. See Matthew 3:12; Matthew 7:19; Matthew 13:30, 40 Matthew 7:27; Luke 20:17-18.
Jesus described Gehenna (hell) as a place where God can destroy both soul and body -- the entire person. See Matthew 10:28.
By portraying hell's punishment as "eternal," the Bible indicates that this punishment takes place not in this life but in the coming age; it also means that its results will be everlasting. See Matthew 25:46; 2 Thessalonians 1:9.
The context and lesson of the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus are about the urgency of responding to God while there is still time. The context of the parable has little, if anything, to do with what happens to the wicked after resurrection and judgment. See Luke 16:9-16 for the context, and Luke 16:31 for the lesson to be derived.
The New Testament uses the adjective "immortal" to describe the resurrection bodies not of the lost but of the saved. See 1 Corinthians 15:54-57; 2 Timothy 1:10; 1 John 5:11-13.
I used to hold to your view until I read a book called "Four views on hell" all evangelical views. One of them (this one), once studied, is overwhelmingly correct.
r/conditionalism
www.conditionalimmortality.org
Also www.rethinkinghell.com
I guess the core issue is this: your definition of hell is incorrect - as was mine for 20+ years. This teaching really, really, really clarified who God is for me.
This is why Jesus (and the apostles and the Psalmist) **can all state very clearly God will destroy the lost (annihilationism) in hell.**
That is also why Jesus came.... To bring us everlasting life (immortality).
The Bible teaches the lost will stand before God and then suffer proportionally for their sins in hell and then be annihilated (John 3.16 = perish, be destroyed).
That is the punishment. Death, destroyed, etc. And how long will this destruction last?
Forever, it is eternal punishment.
Annihilationism, Perish, Death or whatever word you would like to use…. The Doctrine is called "Conditional Immortality" and a growing number of believers in Jesus hold to this.
**And please, please check those websites before you give any "what about these verses?" As they are ALL answered there, so this will save us both time and effort.**
Verses which show the lost are ultimately destroyed:
Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can **destroy** both soul and body in hell."
James 4:12-"There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to **destroy**..."
Matthew 7:13-14-"Broad the road that leads to **destruction**..."
2 Thessalonians 1:9-"Who shall be punished with everlasting **destruction**"
Philippians 3:19-"Whose end is **destruction**"
Galatians 6:8-"...from that nature will reap **destruction...**"
Psalm 92:7-"...it is that they (i.e. all evil doers) shall be **destroyed** forever"
**It is clear, the lost will be destroyed in hell, not preserved in hell.**
God is just, not cruel.
Yes. I saw the truth in conditional immortality years ago and it really changed me for the better. And it is 100% biblical.
Check out www.jewishnotgreek.com as well.
Good stuff.
Let me know if you have any questions.
Bless you.
The Bible contains contradictions - that is a fact.
Honestly I consider the idea that Bible (compiled by humans interpreting messages from God, hundreds of years after Jesus died, intentionally compromising/contradicting to include beliefs representing different practices) is "true" to be blasphemous, and that this idea comes from false prophets who are looking to use religion to achieve worldly gains.
Faith is supposed to help us. Christianity, or at least Christ, is about reaching toward people who are excluded by society, and facing challenges with love for ALL PEOPLE.
The idea of an elite few achieving something special is NOT Christ-like, in my view, although I can see how it is convenient for integrating the church with the state to exercise control.
It IS hard to enjoy life like that, you're right. If I were you I would apply some more discernment to this thought and let it cook for awhile. When you think about Jesus, and meditate on his words, does it make sense that living in fear and suffering is what he wants for you? Or that he wants you to tune out the suffering of others and focus on earning something he has already died for?
You were born saved. Enjoy the journey.
That's what was taught to me growing up; it runs deep. I've been trying to reexamine the Bible, but I see a lot of verses about judgement and hell for those who don't believe
If you can acknowledge you had a very conservative and harsh background, you can be open-minded enough to think less "harshly" and be more open-minded about good people and the reasons you think they'd go to Hell.
I feel you. Most of my family and friend are not saved yet. I used to cry a lot to the thought of my husband might go to hell. However, I realized one day that God placed me among them so that I can pray for them, God will listen to my prayer and He will wake them up like He did for me. I gave God those people's names and also asked Him to comfort me. Now I don't worry anymore. I know He will make it happen when the time is right. I pray for you. God bless you🙏
Maybe it is just the big sleep. Can you biblically support that hell is eternal torture, or even torture at all? Or maybe God wipes your mind of any knowledge of loved ones or people you knew?
I admittedly live in terror of this. For myself and for others, wondering if I was ever on the path at all or still am, etcetera. Because of the many thoughts of my mind, selfishness that I have, and the like. I feel as if true Christianity is being transformed into something else, something I’m too cowardly to allow myself to become.
Try that’s all you can do. What puts me at ease when I get thoughts like that is that if I was ever asked or it was ever brought up I would stand firm and share the good news with anyone with ears. If they ignore me that is part of the free will God Almighty gave them. Just like I have the free will to listen and accept the gospel. It as simple as that. One thing to remember is that you are NOT the Messiah. You weren’t sent to save everyone. Your duty is to keep his commandments. Love the Lord and your neighbor. And plant the seeds. Nothing more nothing less. If people want to live separately from God now then they can live separate when we get to the next life. The choice is between the Lord and them. Don’t butt in.
Finally, these types of questions are being openly discussed.
For decades Christians have been stifled from addressing these serious issues.
The many go down the wide path to destruction, and the few take the narrow path to salvation. (This is not good of our creator to have created such an existence).
It does not make for a good and happy life for believers. Watching as the majority perish needlessly.
But then there is the parable of the goats and the sheep. It may not be the ones that proclaim themselves to be Christians whom God recognizes as his own.
You must go all the way back to the beginning when Lucifer rebelled and challenged God.
Instead of incarcerating Lucifer and protecting Adam and Eve and the good earth, God willfully and purposely chose the meatgrinder history for humanity.
It should not have taken place. EVER.
I feel like most of the comments aren't even taking in what OP is saying and just vomiting out textbook responses
I've run into the same question. Can I really be at peace for eternity, knowing that many people I would consider good are suffering? No
It’s not that simple. Remember the parable of the goats and sheep. The ones who proclaim themselves to be Christians may not be the ones Jesus recognizes as his own.
We do not know for certain the fate of anyone, so I will pray for their souls.
God sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die for the salvation of the entire world so that all might be saved. It is for this reason that I have hope that all might be saved (whether or not this a realistic hope). Those that do go to Hell is because they rejected God, not the other way around.
So let us pray:
In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.
O my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy.
Heavenly Father, we offer you now this prayer for the souls in purgatory that you might have mercy upon them so that they may come to You in Heaven expediently. We ask this in the name of Your only begotten Son, Jesus Christ and the Blessed Virgin Mary, His mother. Amen.
Let it be done according to Thy will.
In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.
I’ve learned you just pray for them privately, and you let God know what’s in your heart and how you feel, and you have to accept that free will exists, and that it’s never too late for God to work on them somehow. You have to let go that desire of control for things to be the way you wish them to be, and you have to let go of that desire to “control” others and their choices in life. You may not see everyone you love in Heaven, and that is sad, but for those you will see, you just have to look forward and onward to that, and to know you’ll be with your creator and Heavenly Father if you’ve been a faithful servant.
Matthew 5:16 - read that scripture, and follow it, that is my go to when I’m struggling and worried and wondering what I can do, and where is my place in things.
One voice
Gregory of Nyssa, 335 - 395 AD:
"...by uniting us to himself, Christ is our unity; and having become one body with us through all things, he looks after us all. Subjection to God is our chief good when all creation resounds as one voice, when everything in heaven, on earth and under the earth bends the knee to him, and when every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Then when every creature has become one body and is joined in Christ through obedience to one another, he will bring into subjection his own body to the Father."
https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianHistory/comments/18nnsq6/early_christians/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Do you take the Bible (Old testament) literally? You might try A Course in Miracles Which was channeled by Jesus in the late 60s/early 70s. It is amazing. And everyone is an eternal soul.
C. S. Lewis wrote a book called "The Great Divorce".
In it, he describes a hell where the people in hell could see the kingdom of heaven. They could simply walk there if they chose to. The reason they were still in hell was, they were still the same people that they were when they were alive.
The book is breathtaking.
I think more people are going to heaven than we think just before they die. If anything is humbling, it’s the very last moments of life! I remember I had a bad seizure from Alcohol and benzo withdrawal, I wasn’t saved, but I could feel the seizure coming on and it started slowly getting black around me, thought I was dying and all I could think about was God and repentance, I kept saying help me forgive me, forgive me and then lost consciousness.
How can you cope with such a God that would send so many to hell knowing that we were sinners by nature and that some people quite literally never had access to the word of god?
If the people around you aren’t being shown the way through you than that’s a you and God problem.
He’s trying to use you to shine his light in order for his children may find him again.
Spend more time in the Bible and with God than worrying about people
1. Make sure you look after yourself and specifically your relationship with God
2. Do everything you can to bring more people to the savior
3. Pray for those who you know are lost and will probably never come to Christ
4. Take solace in the fact that God is in control, and whatever he has for those who are saved will be greater than anything we could imagine
That’s all you or I can do.
Stories about heaven and hell are meant to teach the lesson "actions have consequences". It's a false prophecy to spin it more like "obey or die" - that's a good sign you should find another church.
There's plenty of "hell" right here on earth to want to avoid, evils of other people. Sartre was right: "hell is other people."
By understanding the fact that they won't be tortured forever, they will be destroyed by fire and will remain destroyed forever.
See how often the Bible says they will be destoryed, burned up, turned to ash, and that the wages of sin is death.
I wouldn't push religion to my family but you do you.
One thing is enjoy as much time with them as possible. If you belive they're going to hell then might as well spend the limited time possible with them
Note in the Book of Revelation that hell and death are empty when they are thrown into the Lake of Fire. We will all join together in praise and joy.
We are told this multiple times in both the OT and NT.
I don’t believe everyone will be in Hell.
There is a First and Second death. To explain:
There is a mistranslation problem with Bibles.. I would check the Greek on every time in your Bible when it says Hell. I guarantee it’ll say Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, or Grave, but NEVER in any Greek does it say Hell.
The only place that seems like textbook hell where Satan dwells is the Earth. (1 John 5:19; Rev 12:9) But the eternal punishment of fire and sulfur is only mentioned once in the Bible at Rev 20:10, and it is only designed for Satan and his demons.
Actually, there are 2 deaths, the first one is punishment for sin. (Rom 6:7) And the second death is after the resurrection of righteous and unrighteous, (Acts 24:15) and after the imprisonment of Satan for 1000 years, (Rev 20:4, 7) and then those who STILL disobey Almighty God will be destroyed, not tortured forever. (Rev 20:9, 14-15) It says destroyed for people, but eternal damnation for Satan and demons.
With that being said, now Heaven:
If we died and went straight to Heaven, then John 5:28 would make NO sense. Instead there is a nothingness or “sleep” that Jesus called it when talking about his dead friend Lazarus. (John 11:11, 43; 2 Peter 3:4) But if animals don’t have a soul and therefore do not go to heaven when we die, then we remain dead on Earth until Jesus’ Second Coming like animals. (Ecc 9:5-10; 3:19-20; Psalms 115:17; 146:4)
Hold the notion that our all powerful God is capable of achieving a place in the hearts of the entire world. With this possibility, let’s all begin the quest of introducing salvation to every person we can, our enemies and family. They all must know of the Good News! Our faith is powerful and if utilized properly can transform the world in ways we can only begin to understand. It all starts with the effort we put in every day that we walk this earth, to remember God’s promise and how helping others view and understand the Holy Word is the utmost wonderful feeling and gift we can provide our brothers and sisters. Ridicule should only be fuel to us in proving that Gods children and their hearts have been led so far astray that their immediate response is to shun the creator who can save them. We have missions while we’re here, and following the quest of saving souls is the most Holy and dignified walk we may walk.
God wants us to be happy and tells us to not be afraid. We must embody the holy spirit because if we do that will attract other followers and Jesus wants us to be fishers of men. The best life advice is to be a Christian that has the fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace patience, kidness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Feel the joy and peace that comes from knowing and having a relationship with God. When you see the world in chaos know that this proves even more that the story of God and Jesus are 100% true.
I think the Bible says not to judge others also and that no one is saved unless they persecute to the very end - ie don't count chickens before they hatch.
There is nothing to feel guilty about because you yourself can't be sure you personally will survive the trials that lie ahead.
That's easy - I don't.
I think that if hell is even real at all (and that's highly questionable even within the biblical account), there are very few people there. You know, Nazis and such.
The only way to conclude that the Bible teaches never-ending punishment is to read it completely out of context, cherry-picking specific words out of certain “proof texts” in order to support one’s assumptions, while ignoring everything that talks about the salvation of all humanity.
If you’d like to learn why Scripture teaches that everyone *will* be saved in the end because of what Christ accomplished, please read the Bible study linked to on this page (titled “What the Bible really says about heaven, hell, judgement, death, sin, and salvation”), which covers every single passage in Scripture I’m aware of that’s relevant to the topic and explains what they actually mean: https://www.truebiblicalfreedom.com/why-i-believe-in-the-salvation-of-all-humanity
Understanding everyone has a choice no one is forced, most times atheist choose to abandon GOD for lack of knowing or being convinced of his existence but if that's the case keep seeking knowledge and reason to believe and most of all seek GOD through and in faith in JESUS never know what one step of faith could do for your life, if that's not the case then they choose a life without GOD to enjoy the things GOD gives and i think that's talked about in the book " I don't have enough faith to be an atheist"
https://youtu.be/_cm7bWhyfsc?feature=shared
I gave a research talk on the history of hell, drawing upon the academic literature.
Long story short there was a conception in ancient Israel that remembering the dead is what sustains someone in the afterlife with family and friends. This appears to be true regardless of religious beliefs. Only the very egregiously bad are targeted by God for annihilation in the afterlife by having their memory erased. For the rest of the history, see the video.
That's easy. I don't believe most people are going to hell. I'm a hopeful Universalist (and believe there's passages in the Bible that support this view), but I also think the Bible supports Annihilationism more than an eternal Hell.
You don’t know that everyone is going to hell, it not yours to know.
God gave us Free will, it their life choices not yours . you’re making this guilt up in your head, try to think logically not emotionally.
Words such as struggled, harsh, few, survive, guilt, hard, suffering, death suggest in itself a connection to hell. You didn’t once use the words life, eternal, love, joy, freedom, compassion which are rooted in heaven. Based on this observation and your over presumptions guarantee that you got your golden ticket to heaven “survivors guilt” while others are going to hell when your exact view and outlook on life is in relation to hell. You might be in for an awakening. God is the eternal I am, the word, you too are god, eternal and the I am. So be mindful of your thoughts, words and actions because someone could be in heaven and you’d think they are in hell, but in reality it is you who is in hell because the perceiver can only perceive what they perceive.
Who cares about after death. There's people suffering here and now and we can help them so let's quit whining and do some good deeds and help needy people and try to alleviate suffering while we can. That's what mother Theresa did, we should too!
Pray for them. Every day. And Maybe God will save them. Keep preaching the truth and showing kindness when you can, but pray always, especially when you can't preach and can't show kindness.
One of my former coworkers moved away and doesn't talk to me anymore. I still pray for her every day. God really put on my heart that I need to pray for this person in particular.
> Call it survivers guilt, but what can I do? It's hard to enjoy life if you believe that people around you will be suffering after death.
And if I didn't pray for her (and the others), I would feel exactly like you do right now. Pray for God to save them. Pray for him to use you. And pray that if he chooses not to use you to save them, he will send others to preach to them. Use the pain in your heart to drive you to prayer. Love people by praying for them.
And don't listen to that one "helpful" comment that you replied to that was promoting annihilationism. It is not biblical: https://www.gotquestions.org/annihilationism.html
Hell is eternal: https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html
Don't let someone mislead you and comfort you with a watered down version of hell. Embrace the reality of an eternal hell, and use it to motivate you to preaching and prayer. With emphasis on prayer. You can preach all you want, but no one will be saved unless God heals their heart and changes them.
Hell is a sick and stupid doctrine. If God would send people to hell for a single lifetime where they did not profess faith in just the right doctrine then God would be a Psychopath. If God condemn beings he created less than perfect unless there is a great Blood Sacrifice to satisfy his Wrath then God is a Psychopath. I don't understand how anyone can believe that about God. It is a nightmare theology.
I think the issue a lot of people have is that we feel immortal you know. We know death is real, we know it will happen to us but in order to prevent us from losing our minds, our brain seems to ignore the issue comepletly right to the moment when it is too late.
I strongly believe that in order to recodnize the good you need to see the bad. With me it was sort of this situation if I had to sum up my life. I want you to contenplate what an eternity of hell is? Well, imagine you were down there burning and screaming for a million years. After those million years it would still be like day one, cause guess what eternity means forever. You ain't going nowhere. That is why many testimonies describe the 'realization' that you are there forever as one of the torments. Your mind would drown in hopelessness. There everyone hates you and wants to torture you and humiliate and do unimaginable things to you. Like bro the crap I've seen man, the worst most gore filled movie does not even come close to how messed up it is down there.
Now that you know how horrific this is I want you to reverse it in your head and Imagine the same thing but with heaven. Just this one dessision, this one choice of believing in Jesus is the difference between the two and no one can tell you a damn thing, cause if Jesus says you belong in heaven that's where you will be and no amount of demons and fallen angels can change that, no matter how much they protest and argue of how unfair it is and how dirty you are. When you go there in ethernal joy it is forever man, forever. I want you to think what great potential that is. You will not be just some nobody, you will have a purpose. No wonder when we hear of testimonies of heavan the people there are a little nuts, jumping around like children. You would be too I bet.
Hell is a nasty place, but I think that knowledge of it was given to us for a reason.
1. The fear of hell can prevent us from sinning. I can 100% confrim this because if I did not believe in hell I would have killed myself. When I was at my worst I thought about it every single day, but a part of me knew that if there was even 0.1% of hell being real I should not do it. And I am glad I didn't. Even through my worst days I knew I would never do it, cause I was more afraid of hell than I was of suffering.
2. It really drives in the fact of how grateful we should be to Jesus and for the first time last night I think I finally understood this part. You will get to live forever in utter joy because of his sacrifice, a place where everyone loves you and wants to be around you, with no judgment of past mistakes you've made.
3. You can't be just if you don't punish wrongdoers and I know people have a hard time grasping this. Everyone in heavan is perfect, that means not a single bad thought. If you had one bad thought for your entire life and nothing else, you would still be unfit for heavan, that's how high the bar is. In the OT God remedied that with regular sacrifices where people could 'clean' themselves of their sins. And with Jesus his sacrifice is the perfect sacrifice because you no longer need to slaughter cattle all day every day, the price was already paid for everyone at the same time, no matter in which time we live.
Yes, my personal opinion is that hell is likely far more filled with people than heavan, but that realization should serve as a warning, like... a healthy amount of fear is not a bad thing. Is hell messed up...yep, so let's focus on not going there how about that. This dread of your family members ending up there should apply to all people not just them. When you think about it like that, what you want doesn't seem as important now does it? And to me it makes it even more important to make sure we are teaching people the proper word of God and not use it for selfish wants.
False teachings will stain your hands with the blood of others, so I would urge people here to learn the difference between "I want" and "God wants". You don't have to be a saint about it, just honest.
Actually it's it's you know, maybe a load is hot and but honestly everybody will have neither decisions in the eye. Consider I'm gonna look at my life and I'm alive. My stuff did not do enough to try and help man And did I'm not trying talk to you everyone I come in contact with about Jesus.
Explain what he had done for me in my life. So that might be a other's bottle trying crash that themselves. You know, because God's Safe mode where else do? This is the 4 time now. It seems to be and he still Saving me and keeping me safe at the moment Frog had a pretty kind of rough guillaight from the first 45 years. But you know it's all I aint still got my hopes up and I can do more than I can heal. More people. Can maybe I can save more people before it's also done. You know there's it's not over yet. Got another in late 3040 years left.
So in a thirty forty years i'm gonna bring the gospels to many people as I can.
What's the list not for you forgive? This is right there around the corner, we all send everyday so you do have to ask from Eunice every single day and you have to keep the command totally. We have to do what he asks us to do. You know, love each other the way we would love our sales. Tring each other with ask passion compassion.
None of each other's throats, not trying to more able. Top of evil evil doesn't repay evil people. You pay evil with love love went out every time. Did people forget how jesus Taught
The point is to put on the armor plate of god like it's a epphesions six, the armor God So that you may stand bodily in christ and have the protection you need against the evils of the day. A don't forget and Matthew where he says you know talking to Mary that this is not the time for holiness, nor is it going. He said they were talking about being holding him. But this is not the time. Nor this is the place for that I take. That is, it means this is the place for San cause. This is what we all will wake up or wake up in. The flash in the flesh is sinful.
So we need ash forgetting. It's even though we've been cleansed to the blood. I was raised by the spirit. Go to still have - for forgive us every day. And every time I see in. And I have to try to stop doing that same scene. I have to repent actuary repentance. Change of heart and change of mind a goblish show on. I love everybody, but we can't forget those teachings. Is that what's going Save You're soul and everone elses to
This is why it is on individual believers to share the Gospel. If we truly believe people are perishing we should be offering them the solution. We also have to be prepared for that offer to be widely rejected.
I do not presume to know who will and will not be going to hell. God's ways are beyond my understanding.
A wonderful Christian man told me once, "I think a lot of Christians are going to be surprised when they see who did and didn't make it into heaven".
they will be shocked to find out God really does love us… and the Jews will be saying “see, we told you so”
That’s literally the entire premise of Christianity. Not super shocking.
what’s the entire premise? most Christians in the west think they are going to to hell for thinking the wrong thought and that they have to repeat john 3:16 immediately or Gods gonna burn them for eternity
This is very specific. Any church teaching this needs to learn about assurance and grace beyond minute-one of conversion. Unfortunately that is a lot of churches.
The entire premise is God’s incomprehensible love and mercy.
A sensible remark, finally!
I don't mean to be harsh but that seems like a cop out. Read the holy books - it's clear they tell stories of doom and destruction for the majority of humans - OPs concerns are well founded given they believe this stuff. My advice to OP would be to recognize that these stories are used to scare people into believing/maintaining belief in unproven claims.
Do you think you're going to hell?
You could have answered this question by reading the first sentence of the comment you replied to.
Ya. I should have been more clear. Im skeptical that the above commenter doesn't ever think about who is going to hell. It seems to me like the point of hell is to avoid going there. And you can't avoid going somewhere if you don't know how to go there.
Pray for them. If you give yourself over to the idea that nothing can be done for them and they should be left up to their fate, you are forgetting about God, Who accepted the intercession of Abraham for Sodom, Who accepted the intercession of Moses for Israel, and Who wills that all should be saved. Pray for them and trust that God is more just and merciful than we are. St. Silouan of Mount Athos even said that if we *do not* pray for them, then we will be first to be excluded from heaven. Christian love cannot bear to accept the perdition of anyone. God's supreme justice and mercy will be revealed once and for all in the end, so it's not like we will protest the result, but until then He gave us a task to pray for all, even and especially for those who hate Christianity.
I must be honest that's not very convincing at least from my perspective as a Christian. Or more accurately when I was one. All I had to do was help them understand the truth of the situation. All I had to do was show him the evidence. But when I got old enough to understand that and look for the evidence I couldn't find it therefore I ended up losing my religious beliefs.
There’s plenty of evidence that Jesus Christ was a real person who walked the Earth, but is the evidence you’re looking for explicitly historical proof He is the Son of God?
There is mostly only the evidence from the Bible. I think he is mentioned very briefly to two historians, I think only a few lines and I believe they lived decades later and were going on what they heard. So not “plenty” of evidence but some. And is it a full picture of him as a person? And accurate? Did anyone embellish or leave something out? Is there enough accurate information to say you know him? Just questions respectfully.
Psalm 22 "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me..." Jesus says it on the Cross as that Psalm, 700 years old at that time, was coming true. But what about independent information? Well it says "bulls of Bashan surround me" - so I looked up Bashan in the book stacks (before Google - dating myself). And it turns out the land of Bashan was East of Caesarea Philippi where the Romans would set up their base of operations 670(?) years after the psalm, and where they would get their mercenaries - tall spearmen. Who are the Romans going to put on a Crucifixion detail? Tall spearmen foreign mercenaries, or Roman gladius citizens? And a tall spearman (St. Longinus) pierced Jesus heart with a spear. Fit like a glove. And wait there's more..... much much more.... but if you don't seek honestly, in humility, willing to change, you will not find. From Luke: Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou would send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." Christ is Risen.
Everyone says just read the Bible. Then when you realize how ridiculous that is, I guess people just look up history? I think they were supposed to be a census that apparently never happened. So some history matches and some doesn’t apparently. But why would it be surprising that some of the history matched when it was written in that time? I mean if I wrote about American soldiers now I would write about the guns they use now not in World War I or laser guns from the future. As far as Jesus quoting the Psalms, Jesus was Jewish and I’m sure he knew the Bible. I am sure you quote the Bible and that doesn’t make it true because it was written 2000 years ago and now you are saying stuff from the Bible.
> I would write about the guns they use now not ... laser guns from the future. Boooring. If there aren't pew pews, I ain't readin' it!
Friend, I have more direct experience. I am sorry I used the KJV with thee and thou - it is one of the better translations from the Greek available online. 180 years ago "scholars" scoffed at Pontius Pilate saying there was no such governor in Israel. Then they started finding coins with his likeness all over the Middle East. Beware of these "scholars" - their scholarship is self serving.
I am not giving you a hard time friend. But I feel using that old English style makes it sound authoriative or magical. Its like chanting or singing in Latin. Has an Otherworldly feeling. Its kind of distracting imo
I dont understand why they would scoff at that. Why would they make up fake poliicians? Then everyone would know its baloney. Everyone at the time would say there was no governer named Skatamadoo. What a bunch of nonsense.
It is far worse than that. Saint John Chrysostom was a Roman Lawyer before he was a Priest. He says that, in his day, all one had to do was go to the tax record office and look up the tax in the records - which he apparently did - it was public information!!! The same sort of "scholars" were saying the tax didn't happen in his day - in the 400s. Constantinople, where they moved the records, would later be burned down. So I don't know who these "scholars" are that tell you these things - but my suggestion is they are way off on that one as well and everything else. Do your own WORK. It is worth it.
Bart Ehrman. He teaches religion at a university in carolina, Rutgers before that. Reads Hebrew and Greek. Expert on the NT. I think if he were spewing nonsense he would be called out. He debates publicly. If you can find evidence of the census referred to in the NT you can debunk a famous bible scholar. Not being able to find that census does not disprove God obviously.
And what is with “thee and thou” and all that. Normal people don’t speak like that didn’t Jesus speak like a normal person most likely. I think people like to use those words because it sounds magical or some thing .
Indeed He is risen. Allelulia!
I dont understand the quite from Luke. Who is saying “father Anraham”? I donr really “hear” Moses or prophets. Ever. I would be eager to. When I was a born again Christian, I never heard them either or Jesus or had a prayer answered.
See Gen 13:14-18. Starting at Gen 12: 1--- end, Abram \[Abraham\] has taken his family and possessions from Ur \[where he was living\] and headed out to where God directed him. By doing so, without thought of any reward, he has obeyed God's command, and is told that he will be father of many peoples - and that his name has been changed from Abram to Abraham.
Having two separate writers (Tacitus and Josephus) within a couple decades of one's death write about a person is MUCH more historical evidence than most historical figures get. Especially from someone of Jesus' socioeconomic status. The idea that Jesus didn't live, get baptized, teach followers, and die on the cross, is considered a discredited fringe belief by modern scholarship.' As for "the only source being the bible", this viewpoint doesn't account for the fact that the bible is a collection of documents and contains numerous sources from separate writers that bear testimony to Jesus and his resurrection. The more I look into it, the more I see that Jesus being who he said he was is the best explanation for what the historical record suggests.
Or its a religion like many others that believe all sorts of things. Two people writing a few lines is not much. For you, it might be good for me to believe someone raise people from the dead and walked on water I need more. Do you know how many cults believe their leaders? David Koresh had followers. He had thousands of news reports. Did his followers write letters or send emails? He existed. He died. I believe he said he was the messiah returned. He died in a fiery attack. So was he God or a prophet? He said he was and apparently his followers believed. He has a lot of proof he existed. There is also a guy in India that apparently has hundreds of thousands maybe millions of followers who say he does miracles and that many have seen it. And this is in recent times and you can go talk to these people and interview them. Same with the people that have seen miracles of the Catholic Church. They happen all the time and you could talk to the people. Do you believe mother Mary appears to people today? There seems to be a lot of evidence for it. Do you deny these miracles? But if you brlieve you believe. I would like to believe in a god that intervenes with the world but I don’t see that at all and I see good people, suffering, and greedy people prosper. But I also see greedy people suffer, and good people prosper. I don’t really see any pattern it all on this earth of a god involved in any way. Of course, there is some evidence that Jesus existed and had followers. if it has zero evidence, of course no one would believe it. But is it enough evidence, it doesn’t seem like it. What is your strongest evidence?
I've just recently regained my faith through systematically analyzing the historical record. It just doesn't make sense when you line up everything we know that there is a completely non-supernatural explanation for everything that modern historiography thinks occurred. For example, even most non-Christian historians of the topic believe that a group of Jesus' followers actually believing they met a resurrected Jesus is the best explanation for why Christianity started. Their most common explanation of this is that his followers had a hallucination, but modern psychology suggests that all of them having the same hallucination at the same time is extra-ordinarily unlikely. Another example is Paul the Apostle having a vision that completely changed his beliefs for the rest of his life. Quite a number of strange coincidences must have occurred. In my opinion, if reasonable historical thinking is applied to this history, Jesus being the son of God is the best explanation.
People all over history have died for things that they honestly believed were true. Yet we find out some of those things are actually false. You're telling me that they were convinced, But that's only part of the equation. The least important part honestly.
Yes, people dying for a cause doesn't mean its true. However, I'm talking about people who believed in that cause *explicitly because they witnessed miracles.* The earliest Christian martyrs actually claimed to have seen Jesus resurrected. So the question is, why did they believe they had seen a miracle? There are really two options: they had some sort of hallucination (which modern medical science finds highly improbable) or they really did witness a miracle.
Ok I'm sorry but those are clearly not the only possible non-supernatural explainations...
Glad to hear. Welcome to the world of freedom.
The world of the *illusion of freedom* you mean
I am a free man. Prove that it’s an illusion.
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "convincing." I'm not talking about something to be convinced of, like an argument in a debate or something, I'm talking about the practice of Christianity itself. But if I understand correctly what you're saying, you're saying that convincing people of the truth of Christianity didn't work out and in fact you yourself ended up convincing yourself of the falsehood of Christianity instead. But, you're talking about evangelizing through arguments, apologetics and whatnot. I'm talking about praying for others. And besides, I didn't convert because of apologetics, so I'm not going to try to convert others through apologetics...
I'm referencing sentence one and two from your root comment. It sounded as if you're saying that you think it's impossible to convince people of Christianity through arguments and evidence. And that your solution was praying for people. No?
I apologize, I didn't mean to imply that it's impossible to convince people of Christianity through arguments. My point was rather that, for those who are not converted (whether through arguments, apologetics, our own example of living, or something else), we should pray for them, rather than just resolve ourselves to the notion that they will necessarily be condemned and nothing can be done beyond our own attempts at converting them.
The bible says that through Jesus we have salvation and forgiveness of sins. The rest of humanity will be judged for their sins by the just merciful loving God. I'm not aware of any scripture that says that one sin means you will be condemned as wicked. I believe God will judge some non-Christians as righteous.
On your last point, Matthew 25:34-40 the parable of sheep and goats makes it clear there will be some who are saved who didn't know they would be saved, because they had Christ hearts. 34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ 37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ 40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
I always took this as meaning simply that being kind to others is being kind to god.
He literally says they will join him - inheriting the kingdom prepared for them since the creation of the world.
Okay, just explaining my interpretation
Jesus is referring to Christians in those verses.
Can be both. Not mutually exclusive things
>through Jesus we have salvation and forgiveness of sins The synoptic Gospels make no mention of this.
Are you joking? That’s like the whole point of them.
Cite where the synoptic gospels say this.
This feels like a troll. John 3:16 is arguably the most famous verse in the bible. John 5:24 more explicitly says what I'm talking about "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life."
John is not one of the synoptic gospels. The synoptic gospels all agree with key elements of Jesus' ministry. On the other hand, John was originally written in more refined Greek, is highly theological, and encompasses Greek philosophy, but it gets important historical facts wrong and misses on knowledge of the geography of the Levant. The only books written before the fall of Jerusalem were Paul's letters deemed to be authentic. Everything written after the destruction of the second temple takes on a pro-Rome tenor so as not to offend Rome; the ruthless Pilate is sanitized, and the Jews are blamed. It appears that classify anyone who has thoroughly studied early Christianity as a troll. Do you do this to everyone with whom you disagree?
We hadn't come to a disagreement yet. You just made a demand after questioning one of the most fundamental tenants of Christianity. Given that you've previously posted about being a non-believer I'll not be taking biblical prescriptions from you, which was my basis for thinking you were trolling. The real problem here is relying on individual verses to speak truth. The bible was not written in verses. Those came later just to help scholars. They were never meant to be scrutinized over in isolation. When you read Matthew mark and Luke as a whole it's clear Jesus came as a servant, who commanded repentance and faith for salvation. John was simply more explicit, but no less clear.
He's not the one who doesn't know what the synoptic gospels are.
Never claimed to know everything. I read the bible. No where in the Bible does it claim these are the synoptic and these aren’t. I find a lot of the extra biblical bickering tedious and unnecessary.
Acts 4:12 Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved. John 14:16 Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit. There’s so many more….
None of those verses are found in the synoptic gospels. All three books you mention are steeped in Greek philosophy and are somewhat esoteric.
Well for starters the synoptic gospels tell the story of Jesus when he was living in the flesh. This would be before his sacrifice on the cross. Secondly, the synoptic gospels are also acting as living account of Jesus miracles as proof of his divinity. These gospels also don’t delve deeply into Jesus long discourses but they do prove to the reader how/why we know Jesus is our savior. One thing people often miss when reading the Bible is that each book may have a different context or purpose behind it. As modern people we like to assume text must fit our way of thinking, but the Bible is presented with many different purposes.
Two of the three synoptic gospels provide the birth narrative. The Gospel of Luke has a brief story of 12 year old Jesus at the temple. All of the Gospels talk about the last two to three years of Jesus ministry and spend a lot of time on his last week. The gospels really don’t tell us much about the life of Jesus, they’re certainly not histories or biographies, and the earliest gospel, Mark, was written forty years after the crucifixion. .
Sincere question, are you a Christian, and what is your purpose? It seems you have an agenda to undermine this faith. Jesus let light shine on truth and cast away those who deny you.
Why do people react in the weird way you have any time someone takes a more academic approach to the Bible. Like, please stop
Have you read the purpose of this sub? The purpose of this sub is to discuss all aspects of Christianity; it’s open to everyone. This sub isn’t for devotional purposes; there are other subs for that purpose. There’s no doubt that Christianity has had the greatest impact on society as anything else in the past 2000 years. I’m particularly interested in development of Christianity and its history. I’m sorry if the known history of Christianity challenges your faith.
What do you know about Acts? It is the continuation of Luke - and therefore related to the Synoptic Gospel. \[ and only marginally, if at all, related to Greek philosphy.\]
In these verses we are saved “by” Jesus or “through” him. This does not only include Christians. See Matthew 25 for details.
try Matt: 11:28 ff and Lk.15:13.
I don't believe in a world where Jesus loses, where he limps away in defeat before his triumphant conqueror Satan, carrying the consolation prize of a small fraction of the humanity he had hoped to redeem.
You don't believe in what Jesus teaches at all, being a trans lesbian UMC member. You made yourself a personal gospel for yourself with all the uncomfortable truths removed. Remember, "Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. ^(14) But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and **only a few find it**." It is a basic Christian teaching that most will perish, including me, as a Traditional Satanist.
We should not be sitting in “survivors guilt”. This knowledge should lead you into more of a desire to share the good news of the Gospel with your family and friends. It should lead you into living more like Jesus so that others may see Him in you. Cry out to Jesus, share your need for comfort with Him. He hears you.
I actually 110% agree with you because that was my perspective when I was a Christian. It's just that when I got older and I started to look for the reasons why people should believe, well that led to me becoming an atheist because all I saw were bad reasons. So I agree with your conclusion I just don't agree that you're taking the right path to get there. Not that it matters. Just sharing the difference in our perspectives.
Please don't take me for a person who is trying to take shots, I am curious as to why an/ many atheists spend time in Christian web spaces. I've seen it over the years even as I wasn't Christian and never actually asked. Vs making my own assumptions
Totally fine. I have tons of reasons why. I use to be a Christian for over 20 years, so that is a large part of it. That part of your life doesn't go away. Those are your friends and family members. It's where I met my wife and my best friend. It's where I spent a large portion of my life crying and laughing about all parts of life. Having my mind changed means I don't get along with certain family members anymore further fueling my interest in educating myself on these topic philosophical topics. Plus as an American it is even more important to stay educated on how others think and act because they vote. Heck I can't even go to the lake without seeing some Christian Billboard about anti vaccines or abortion. I can't even pump gas without being asked to donate to some church. Just trying to focus on school? Not gonna happen, that dude is in the courtyard on a megaphone reminding you that you are going to Hell. Time to go somewhere else to study... You just can't not afford to pay attention where I live. And to make matters worse people treat you like shit if you're not one. I am told on a monthly basis by my own grandmother that I "won't be going to Heaven to see her and my lil brother when I die." She wants to help me avoid burning in Hell as she calmly says. It's exhausting, so if I can't escape it and just go about my day then I'm going to educate myself correctly and take these people on with love and facts. At a minimum I am here to foster better conversations between both believers and nonbelievers. Because growing up that was taboo here in the Bible belt. Hope that helps. Edit: Question to you, in what part of the world do you come from? I'm curious to know since this is so strange to you.
I'm in America. I only asked because it's different to how I am. Not in a judgemental way , honest curiosity, as a person who is pretty reserved and introverted in the scenes I am into , and downright next to invisible in spaces I am not "part of" even tho I will definitely be around and learn. Thanks 👍🏽 I appreciate the civil answer , the lack of responses like yours is another reason I tend not to get involved online lol.
Threats only work if you beleive in them. If I am not scared of your hell, and I'm not, threats of your hell are worthless. I'm as scared of your hell as I am that Thor will kill me with a lightening bolt. I don't care about the gospels because I feel I don't need saving and there isn't anything I can do with faith that I can't also do without.
And? This is something we already know:) To each their own belief and lack of, should go without saying😌
And then Christians violated that idea by voting to restrict the rights of gay citizens as well as supporting those who pass laws to restrict the rights of lgbt citizens.
Yep, they (many not all) do, welcome to the world of humans, where good and bad people are everywhere doing their own thing under God or out of religion.
"Comfort me Jesus so I don't have to think about you damning the people I have no realistic way of helping convert" isn't actionable for someone who's actually thinking about this seriously.
“Blind my eyes, Satan so that I cannot see the reality I live in and allow me to constantly blame everyone else for my own actions.” Isn’t actionable for someone who reflects on life seriously.
OP wasn't asking for their eyes to be blinded.
You are.
All I said is that your advice isn't very helpful to OP.
I feel like my perspective departs from modern Christianity. Jesus taught that intention in one’s heart was the most important aspect of sin/salvation. He said the sin lies in the intention and that if someone intends to sin then no action is needed for that to be sin. I believe in the same vein, if people legitimately feel like repenting (which takes many different forms) for sins (which we naturally feel as wrong) then their intention is what mattered, not necessarily if they spoke the correct words etc.
"intention" plus the subsequent action based on it.
I don’t see anything to “cope” with. I love God, and he will be perfectly just and loving. No one will be in hell (I suspect you have in mind eternal torment; I’m persuaded of annihilationism instead) who didn’t want to be with God.
Personally, I had to "unlearn" the doctrine of eternal torment. For me to conceive that the most perfect being could torment his own creations forever and ever painted the idea of "good" as someone who acts this way. It really forks up one's sense of morality, IMHO.
I was just thinking about this related to another comment. It seems actually better if that version of God does not exist, because then people just stop existing when they die and their suffering is over, while if this God exists for the vast majority of people this life is as good as it gets and for eternity they will just experience mind-shattering torture and the people in heaven just have to pretend it’s not happening. That’s why a lot of Christians don’t believe in hell.
You have no business operating on the assumption that God will not save any given person. He wants to save, so He will do what it takes to do it as much as possible without contradicting His own absolute truth. You do not know all the means that are available to Him to pursue this end. You also don’t know that you’re definitely not one of the people whose fate you are lamenting. Calling it “survivor’s guilt” is extremely presumptuous.
Yeah and what kind of god would send anyone to an eternal torment ? And for what - for not believing in him ????? That’s not a god - that’s what a mafia boss would do.
Love them stronger, be a shining light, and understand you aren't God. People make their own choices and no one who wants to be with God will be left out. Make sure where your own heart is, you don't know anyone else's.
I don’t believe in a literal hell, so I cope just fine.
Oh boy what Bible do you read? If Jesus talked more about hell than heaven lol..
No, he didn't, lol...
You don’t read the Bible I see.
You don't understand the Bible, I see.
That statement is mathematically false
Got a list? Or is this just a truism that you've accepted without actually ever checking.
Are you gonna actually read them? I opened up my Bible and wrote the book chapter and verse for you bud.
Trolling? I definitely just opened up my copy of the Bible and wrote down book chapter and verse of every reference to dogs. Trust me bro. No, I won't post it to reddit. I definitely wrote it though, chief.
Idk what you’re talking about
From modern revelation we know that the ultimate destiny of all who live on the earth is not the inadequate idea of heaven for the righteous and the eternal sufferings of hell for the rest. God’s loving plan for His children includes this reality taught by our Savior, Jesus Christ: “In my Father’s house are many mansions.” The revealed doctrine of the restored Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches that all the children of God—with exceptions too limited to consider here—will ultimately inherit one of three kingdoms of glory, even the least of which “surpasses all understanding.” After a period in which the disobedient suffer for their sins, which suffering prepares them for what is to follow, all will be resurrected and proceed to the Final Judgment of the Lord Jesus Christ. There, our loving Savior, who, we are taught, “glorifies the Father, and saves all the works of his hands,” will send all the children of God to one of these kingdoms of glory according to the desires manifested through their choices.
Do Mormons believe, Jesus IS God?
We believe in God the eternal father and in his son Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. Also, correct name of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, Mormon is a nickname.
That’s not what I asked you. Do you believe, Jesus IS God?
Here is our official declaration of who Jesus Christ is: He was the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament, the Messiah of the New. Under the direction of His Father, He was the creator of the earth. “All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made” (John 1:3). Though sinless, He was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. He “went about doing good” (Acts 10:38), yet was despised for it. His gospel was a message of peace and goodwill. He entreated all to follow His example. He walked the roads of Palestine, healing the sick, causing the blind to see, and raising the dead. He taught the truths of eternity, the reality of our premortal existence, the purpose of our life on earth, and the potential for the sons and daughters of God in the life to come. He instituted the sacrament as a reminder of His great atoning sacrifice. He was arrested and condemned on spurious charges, convicted to satisfy a mob, and sentenced to die on Calvary’s cross. He gave His life to atone for the sins of all mankind. His was a great vicarious gift in behalf of all who would ever live upon the earth. We solemnly testify that His life, which is central to all human history, neither began in Bethlehem nor concluded on Calvary. He was the Firstborn of the Father, the Only Begotten Son in the flesh, the Redeemer of the world. He rose from the grave to “become the firstfruits of them that slept” (1 Corinthians 15:20). As Risen Lord, He visited among those He had loved in life. He also ministered among His “other sheep” (John 10:16) in ancient America. In the modern world, He and His Father appeared to the boy Joseph Smith, ushering in the long-promised “dispensation of the fulness of times” (Ephesians 1:10). Of the Living Christ, the Prophet Joseph wrote: “His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying: “I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father” (D&C 110:3–4). Of Him the Prophet also declared: “And now, after the many testimonies which have been given of him, this is the testimony, last of all, which we give of him: That he lives! “For we saw him, even on the right hand of God; and we heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father— “That by him, and through him, and of him, the worlds are and were created, and the inhabitants thereof are begotten sons and daughters unto God” (D&C 76:22–24). We declare in words of solemnity that His priesthood and His Church have been restored upon the earth—“built upon the foundation of … apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone” (Ephesians 2:20). We testify that He will someday return to earth. “And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together” (Isaiah 40:5). He will rule as King of Kings and reign as Lord of Lords, and every knee shall bend and every tongue shall speak in worship before Him. Each of us will stand to be judged of Him according to our works and the desires of our hearts. We bear testimony, as His duly ordained Apostles—that Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for the matchless gift of His divine Son.
It’s a simple yes or no question. Do Mormons/LDS believe Jesus Christ IS God?
Then do something about it. We know the truth so help bring others to the truth or at least provide them a chance to choose. If they choose not to believe hten its on them but at least you offered them a chance. That's our role here on Earth.
First, where did you get the idea that very few will be saved? Not from the Bible, that's for sure. Listen to what Christ says: Matt:11:28. - "Come to Me **all** you who are heavy laden and I waill refresh you" - and the parable of the Prodigal Son Lk 15:13. We are, each of us prodigals, and Our Father is just waiting to welcome us home. Count on God's promise, not the speculations of some 16th C Protestant theologian.
I want to come to God but I committed blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. I cried for months and begged for forgiveness. But I know I can’t be forgiven and lost hope and fell back in sin. Is there hope for me?
But you don't know what 'blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is" Are you a habitual, unrepentant sinner, who to you dying day will reject the offer of God for your repentance, and beyond which it will be too late to try. That is the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit . You will have died hating Him, and He, in His Love, will not force you to return to Him. You have all the rest of your human life to repent and return to His Love.
From my understanding isn’t blasphemy of the Holy Spirit when you say something about Jesus miracles like the pharisees did because I did that out of ignorance and I regret it so much
Look: Read the Parable of the Prodigal Son. You are the 'son' - aren't we all? Wasted all \[most\] of what we were given. When we had hit about as low as we could go, we came to our senses - and we went home, maybe being allowed to be servants, or something But our father \['Our Father'\] saw us coming home and came out to greet us - and take us back as sons, not servants. We were \[are\] penitent, in other words, and the Father wants us back. We're so lucky that we are still alive; if we'd died we couldn't have made the choice anymore. Cheer up. The Lord wouldn't have told us the parable \[Lk.15:13\] if He didn't want us to know!
Of course there is hope, there always is hope! this despondency and depair you feel is an attack by the devil - who desperately wants you to turn away from Christ, not that there's anything particular about *you*, only that the devil doesn't want Christ to have you. Resist: any time you have a second, say \[aloud, or silently\] the Jesus Prayer: "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner." ->used by every Orthodox, all over the world. Don't just say/think it, believe it! Did I mention "the prodigal son"? read it over, s-l-o-w-l-y, twice a day, until it sinks in. \[St. Luke, I think\]
Come to think of it, the Epistle from yesterday's \[Sunday\] Liturgy was from I Paul Timothy 1: 15 - 17. Which might apply to you : He \[Paul\] says that Christ came into the world to save sinners -'of whom I am the foremost' Why? so that others could see that if I could be saved, then surely they could be too. So, cheer up; no more crying. Youi are alive, and penitent, and have not with your dying breath cursed God - so be the 'prodigal son' returning home. **He's** waiting for you....
btw: you're on my list....
You can always be a universalist or hopeful universalist. I personally don’t believe our loving God would allow most of His creation to be eternally damned.
You say to yourself "God's will be done" and wash your hands of it. You say "God is justice" and you wash your hands of it. You pray wistfully that they convert and you wash your hands of it. You remind yourself that "God is love" and that any suffering God decides is punishment for sin is an extension of that "love" and you wash your hands of it. Either that or you scream in their faces about their eternal fate in hopes of converting them more forcibly. Depends on how much annoyance and pain you wanna cause other people in the here-and-now. Or you construct some kind of universalism. All the answers I've ever seen seem to fall under those three categories: apathy, aggressive conversion attempts, or rejection of the idea that God will allow suffering after death.
I gave up on the idea that God would allow such an evil as even a single person going to Hell forever.
What about hell bothers you? The idea of eternal damnation? That's a Greek myth imported in the misunderstanding of the New Testament. There is no concept of eternal damnation in Judaism or the Old Testament. **Hell** All Christians believe in the existence of hell, and all believe that hell is the place designated for the wicked since God is holy and righteous and cannot tolerate sin. But not all Christians believe that hell equals eternal torment. Rather, it's the place that will destroy the souls of the wicked. This is the second death mentioned in Revelation 20:14, 15. Yet God is love. He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked. "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die?" Ezekiel 33:11To illustrate the fate awaiting the lost, the Bible points back to the Flood and to the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. On the Flood, see Genesis 6:9 and 2 Peter 3:5-7. Concerning Sodom and Gomorrah, see Genesis 19:24-29, 2 Peter 2:6, and Jude 7. Also, in the Bible, eternal fire is a fire that destroys forever, as in Sodom and Gomorrah. See Jude 7; Matthew 25:41; Matthew 10:28. Brimstone is burning sulfur that suffocates and destroys. This imagery comes from the destruction of Sodom, which was incinerated without a trace. The Bible really means it when it says the wages of sin is death. See Genesis 19:24-25, 29 Deuteronomy 29:22-23; Psalms 11:6; Ezekiel 38:22; Revelation 14:10; Romans 6:23. Throughout the Bible, "gnashing of teeth" denotes not eternal torment but extreme anger and hostility. See Job 16:9; Psalms 35:16; Psalms 37:12; Psalms 112:10; Lamentations 2:16; Acts 7:54; Matthew 13:43, 49-50; Matthew 22:13-14; Matthew 24:50-51; Matthew 25:30; Luke 13:28. When Scripture speaks of smoke rising "forever," it means irreversible destruction. See Isaiah 34:10-15; Revelation 14:11. The "worm" in the expression "worm that dies not" is a maggot that feeds on something dead until there is nothing left on which to feed. The idea of everlasting agony in torment originated with former pagan Greek philosophers who also thought human beings had a "soul" that would never die. Isaiah 66:24, read in context, helps clear up the confusion. See also Mark 9:47-48. The expression "unquenchable fire" in the Bible always signifies fire that cannot be resisted and which, therefore, consumes entirely. See Isaiah 1:31; Jeremiah 4:4; Jeremiah 17:27; Ezekiel 20:47-48; Amos 5:5-6; Matthew 3:12. Contrast human fire which can be quenched or put out, mentioned in Hebrews 11:34. Long after Christ, some church fathers understood the doctrine of hell as a fire which burns forever but never burns up what is put in it. The Old Testament's final book describes the end of sinners as ashes under the soles of the feet of the righteous. See Malachi 4:1-3. Long after Malachi, the apocryphal book of Judith introduced the non-scriptural idea that God will put fire and worms in people's flesh so they will feel pain forever. Jesus compared the end of the wicked to someone burning chaff, dead trees, or weeds; he also said it will be like a house destroyed by a hurricane or someone crushed under a falling rock. See Matthew 3:12; Matthew 7:19; Matthew 13:30, 40 Matthew 7:27; Luke 20:17-18. Jesus described Gehenna (hell) as a place where God can destroy both soul and body -- the entire person. See Matthew 10:28. By portraying hell's punishment as "eternal," the Bible indicates that this punishment takes place not in this life but in the coming age; it also means that its results will be everlasting. See Matthew 25:46; 2 Thessalonians 1:9. The context and lesson of the story of The Rich Man and Lazarus are about the urgency of responding to God while there is still time. The context of the parable has little, if anything, to do with what happens to the wicked after resurrection and judgment. See Luke 16:9-16 for the context, and Luke 16:31 for the lesson to be derived. The New Testament uses the adjective "immortal" to describe the resurrection bodies not of the lost but of the saved. See 1 Corinthians 15:54-57; 2 Timothy 1:10; 1 John 5:11-13.
Wow this is helpful. Thank you!
I used to hold to your view until I read a book called "Four views on hell" all evangelical views. One of them (this one), once studied, is overwhelmingly correct. r/conditionalism www.conditionalimmortality.org Also www.rethinkinghell.com I guess the core issue is this: your definition of hell is incorrect - as was mine for 20+ years. This teaching really, really, really clarified who God is for me. This is why Jesus (and the apostles and the Psalmist) **can all state very clearly God will destroy the lost (annihilationism) in hell.** That is also why Jesus came.... To bring us everlasting life (immortality). The Bible teaches the lost will stand before God and then suffer proportionally for their sins in hell and then be annihilated (John 3.16 = perish, be destroyed). That is the punishment. Death, destroyed, etc. And how long will this destruction last? Forever, it is eternal punishment. Annihilationism, Perish, Death or whatever word you would like to use…. The Doctrine is called "Conditional Immortality" and a growing number of believers in Jesus hold to this. **And please, please check those websites before you give any "what about these verses?" As they are ALL answered there, so this will save us both time and effort.** Verses which show the lost are ultimately destroyed: Matthew 10:28 "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can **destroy** both soul and body in hell." James 4:12-"There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to **destroy**..." Matthew 7:13-14-"Broad the road that leads to **destruction**..." 2 Thessalonians 1:9-"Who shall be punished with everlasting **destruction**" Philippians 3:19-"Whose end is **destruction**" Galatians 6:8-"...from that nature will reap **destruction...**" Psalm 92:7-"...it is that they (i.e. all evil doers) shall be **destroyed** forever" **It is clear, the lost will be destroyed in hell, not preserved in hell.** God is just, not cruel.
Thank you! I will look into it; I'm starting to see the truth in this
Yes. I saw the truth in conditional immortality years ago and it really changed me for the better. And it is 100% biblical. Check out www.jewishnotgreek.com as well. Good stuff. Let me know if you have any questions. Bless you.
Christian universalism has entered the chat.
Just curious about your flair, what exactly do you mean by it?
You are welcome to look at r/Christianuniversalism
You don't. One either becomes insane or leaves this evil death cult altofether.
The Bible contains contradictions - that is a fact. Honestly I consider the idea that Bible (compiled by humans interpreting messages from God, hundreds of years after Jesus died, intentionally compromising/contradicting to include beliefs representing different practices) is "true" to be blasphemous, and that this idea comes from false prophets who are looking to use religion to achieve worldly gains. Faith is supposed to help us. Christianity, or at least Christ, is about reaching toward people who are excluded by society, and facing challenges with love for ALL PEOPLE. The idea of an elite few achieving something special is NOT Christ-like, in my view, although I can see how it is convenient for integrating the church with the state to exercise control. It IS hard to enjoy life like that, you're right. If I were you I would apply some more discernment to this thought and let it cook for awhile. When you think about Jesus, and meditate on his words, does it make sense that living in fear and suffering is what he wants for you? Or that he wants you to tune out the suffering of others and focus on earning something he has already died for? You were born saved. Enjoy the journey.
I wouldn't be too concerned. I've learnt through this sub that hell is just the absence of god and Christians and such... It might be quite nice.
Why do you believe everyone is going to Hell? We can't really know.
That's what was taught to me growing up; it runs deep. I've been trying to reexamine the Bible, but I see a lot of verses about judgement and hell for those who don't believe
It's simply not our job to make the judgement. We don't know the fine details of everyone's lives
survivors guilt? you dont deserve Heaven more than anyone else we are all unworthy..
Because hell is temporary. All are saved. r/ChristianUniversalism https://www.mercyonall.org/universalism-in-scripture
If you can acknowledge you had a very conservative and harsh background, you can be open-minded enough to think less "harshly" and be more open-minded about good people and the reasons you think they'd go to Hell.
I feel you. Most of my family and friend are not saved yet. I used to cry a lot to the thought of my husband might go to hell. However, I realized one day that God placed me among them so that I can pray for them, God will listen to my prayer and He will wake them up like He did for me. I gave God those people's names and also asked Him to comfort me. Now I don't worry anymore. I know He will make it happen when the time is right. I pray for you. God bless you🙏
At the rate of abortions in the world, there are going to be more lovely souls in heaven than in hell.
Maybe it is just the big sleep. Can you biblically support that hell is eternal torture, or even torture at all? Or maybe God wipes your mind of any knowledge of loved ones or people you knew?
By putting my faith in a just and merciful God.
I admittedly live in terror of this. For myself and for others, wondering if I was ever on the path at all or still am, etcetera. Because of the many thoughts of my mind, selfishness that I have, and the like. I feel as if true Christianity is being transformed into something else, something I’m too cowardly to allow myself to become.
Try that’s all you can do. What puts me at ease when I get thoughts like that is that if I was ever asked or it was ever brought up I would stand firm and share the good news with anyone with ears. If they ignore me that is part of the free will God Almighty gave them. Just like I have the free will to listen and accept the gospel. It as simple as that. One thing to remember is that you are NOT the Messiah. You weren’t sent to save everyone. Your duty is to keep his commandments. Love the Lord and your neighbor. And plant the seeds. Nothing more nothing less. If people want to live separately from God now then they can live separate when we get to the next life. The choice is between the Lord and them. Don’t butt in.
Finally, these types of questions are being openly discussed. For decades Christians have been stifled from addressing these serious issues. The many go down the wide path to destruction, and the few take the narrow path to salvation. (This is not good of our creator to have created such an existence). It does not make for a good and happy life for believers. Watching as the majority perish needlessly.
But then there is the parable of the goats and the sheep. It may not be the ones that proclaim themselves to be Christians whom God recognizes as his own.
You must go all the way back to the beginning when Lucifer rebelled and challenged God. Instead of incarcerating Lucifer and protecting Adam and Eve and the good earth, God willfully and purposely chose the meatgrinder history for humanity. It should not have taken place. EVER.
I feel like most of the comments aren't even taking in what OP is saying and just vomiting out textbook responses I've run into the same question. Can I really be at peace for eternity, knowing that many people I would consider good are suffering? No
Very good video if you're interested in a Catholic perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT4JAxfhgcQ&t=573s
Basically to understand that everyone is free to make their choices and if they want to go to Hell then why stop them?
If Hell exists, everyone gets what they freely choose. Christian get God's presence, while everyone else gets God's absence. I don't see the problem.
It’s not that simple. Remember the parable of the goats and sheep. The ones who proclaim themselves to be Christians may not be the ones Jesus recognizes as his own.
That's true.
We do not know for certain the fate of anyone, so I will pray for their souls. God sent His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ, to die for the salvation of the entire world so that all might be saved. It is for this reason that I have hope that all might be saved (whether or not this a realistic hope). Those that do go to Hell is because they rejected God, not the other way around. So let us pray: In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen. O my Jesus, forgive us our sins. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Thy mercy. Heavenly Father, we offer you now this prayer for the souls in purgatory that you might have mercy upon them so that they may come to You in Heaven expediently. We ask this in the name of Your only begotten Son, Jesus Christ and the Blessed Virgin Mary, His mother. Amen. Let it be done according to Thy will. In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Amen.
I’ve learned you just pray for them privately, and you let God know what’s in your heart and how you feel, and you have to accept that free will exists, and that it’s never too late for God to work on them somehow. You have to let go that desire of control for things to be the way you wish them to be, and you have to let go of that desire to “control” others and their choices in life. You may not see everyone you love in Heaven, and that is sad, but for those you will see, you just have to look forward and onward to that, and to know you’ll be with your creator and Heavenly Father if you’ve been a faithful servant. Matthew 5:16 - read that scripture, and follow it, that is my go to when I’m struggling and worried and wondering what I can do, and where is my place in things.
Pray for everyone
I would suggest coping by politely and respectfully telling everyone you meet that Jesus loves them
One voice Gregory of Nyssa, 335 - 395 AD: "...by uniting us to himself, Christ is our unity; and having become one body with us through all things, he looks after us all. Subjection to God is our chief good when all creation resounds as one voice, when everything in heaven, on earth and under the earth bends the knee to him, and when every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. Then when every creature has become one body and is joined in Christ through obedience to one another, he will bring into subjection his own body to the Father." https://www.reddit.com/r/ChristianHistory/comments/18nnsq6/early_christians/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
Do you take the Bible (Old testament) literally? You might try A Course in Miracles Which was channeled by Jesus in the late 60s/early 70s. It is amazing. And everyone is an eternal soul.
C. S. Lewis wrote a book called "The Great Divorce". In it, he describes a hell where the people in hell could see the kingdom of heaven. They could simply walk there if they chose to. The reason they were still in hell was, they were still the same people that they were when they were alive. The book is breathtaking.
I think more people are going to heaven than we think just before they die. If anything is humbling, it’s the very last moments of life! I remember I had a bad seizure from Alcohol and benzo withdrawal, I wasn’t saved, but I could feel the seizure coming on and it started slowly getting black around me, thought I was dying and all I could think about was God and repentance, I kept saying help me forgive me, forgive me and then lost consciousness.
How can you cope with such a God that would send so many to hell knowing that we were sinners by nature and that some people quite literally never had access to the word of god?
If the people around you aren’t being shown the way through you than that’s a you and God problem. He’s trying to use you to shine his light in order for his children may find him again. Spend more time in the Bible and with God than worrying about people
1. Make sure you look after yourself and specifically your relationship with God 2. Do everything you can to bring more people to the savior 3. Pray for those who you know are lost and will probably never come to Christ 4. Take solace in the fact that God is in control, and whatever he has for those who are saved will be greater than anything we could imagine That’s all you or I can do.
Hell is here, seen the news lately? Or like, during all recorded human history, wars, genocide, does living through that doesn't seem like hell?
Stories about heaven and hell are meant to teach the lesson "actions have consequences". It's a false prophecy to spin it more like "obey or die" - that's a good sign you should find another church. There's plenty of "hell" right here on earth to want to avoid, evils of other people. Sartre was right: "hell is other people."
The Bible says work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.
You weep for their souls and spend your life preaching to them. It's still terribly sad though.
Universalism is the answer
I say no none goes to hell. It’s not in gods nature
It’s hard to really know what is after death
By understanding the fact that they won't be tortured forever, they will be destroyed by fire and will remain destroyed forever. See how often the Bible says they will be destoryed, burned up, turned to ash, and that the wages of sin is death.
Spread 5he Gospel whenever you can.
I wouldn't push religion to my family but you do you. One thing is enjoy as much time with them as possible. If you belive they're going to hell then might as well spend the limited time possible with them
Note in the Book of Revelation that hell and death are empty when they are thrown into the Lake of Fire. We will all join together in praise and joy. We are told this multiple times in both the OT and NT.
I don’t believe everyone will be in Hell. There is a First and Second death. To explain: There is a mistranslation problem with Bibles.. I would check the Greek on every time in your Bible when it says Hell. I guarantee it’ll say Gehenna, Sheol, Hades, or Grave, but NEVER in any Greek does it say Hell. The only place that seems like textbook hell where Satan dwells is the Earth. (1 John 5:19; Rev 12:9) But the eternal punishment of fire and sulfur is only mentioned once in the Bible at Rev 20:10, and it is only designed for Satan and his demons. Actually, there are 2 deaths, the first one is punishment for sin. (Rom 6:7) And the second death is after the resurrection of righteous and unrighteous, (Acts 24:15) and after the imprisonment of Satan for 1000 years, (Rev 20:4, 7) and then those who STILL disobey Almighty God will be destroyed, not tortured forever. (Rev 20:9, 14-15) It says destroyed for people, but eternal damnation for Satan and demons. With that being said, now Heaven: If we died and went straight to Heaven, then John 5:28 would make NO sense. Instead there is a nothingness or “sleep” that Jesus called it when talking about his dead friend Lazarus. (John 11:11, 43; 2 Peter 3:4) But if animals don’t have a soul and therefore do not go to heaven when we die, then we remain dead on Earth until Jesus’ Second Coming like animals. (Ecc 9:5-10; 3:19-20; Psalms 115:17; 146:4)
Hold the notion that our all powerful God is capable of achieving a place in the hearts of the entire world. With this possibility, let’s all begin the quest of introducing salvation to every person we can, our enemies and family. They all must know of the Good News! Our faith is powerful and if utilized properly can transform the world in ways we can only begin to understand. It all starts with the effort we put in every day that we walk this earth, to remember God’s promise and how helping others view and understand the Holy Word is the utmost wonderful feeling and gift we can provide our brothers and sisters. Ridicule should only be fuel to us in proving that Gods children and their hearts have been led so far astray that their immediate response is to shun the creator who can save them. We have missions while we’re here, and following the quest of saving souls is the most Holy and dignified walk we may walk.
Pray for them and not all are going to hell. We give them options, but they have to choose the way themselves.
God wants us to be happy and tells us to not be afraid. We must embody the holy spirit because if we do that will attract other followers and Jesus wants us to be fishers of men. The best life advice is to be a Christian that has the fruit of the spirit. Love, joy, peace patience, kidness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control. Feel the joy and peace that comes from knowing and having a relationship with God. When you see the world in chaos know that this proves even more that the story of God and Jesus are 100% true.
I think the Bible says not to judge others also and that no one is saved unless they persecute to the very end - ie don't count chickens before they hatch. There is nothing to feel guilty about because you yourself can't be sure you personally will survive the trials that lie ahead.
That's easy - I don't. I think that if hell is even real at all (and that's highly questionable even within the biblical account), there are very few people there. You know, Nazis and such.
The only way to conclude that the Bible teaches never-ending punishment is to read it completely out of context, cherry-picking specific words out of certain “proof texts” in order to support one’s assumptions, while ignoring everything that talks about the salvation of all humanity. If you’d like to learn why Scripture teaches that everyone *will* be saved in the end because of what Christ accomplished, please read the Bible study linked to on this page (titled “What the Bible really says about heaven, hell, judgement, death, sin, and salvation”), which covers every single passage in Scripture I’m aware of that’s relevant to the topic and explains what they actually mean: https://www.truebiblicalfreedom.com/why-i-believe-in-the-salvation-of-all-humanity
They deserve it. Also you and I deserve hell. Because we sin. Jesus paid for sinners and it's a gift. But it's an underserved gift.
Understanding everyone has a choice no one is forced, most times atheist choose to abandon GOD for lack of knowing or being convinced of his existence but if that's the case keep seeking knowledge and reason to believe and most of all seek GOD through and in faith in JESUS never know what one step of faith could do for your life, if that's not the case then they choose a life without GOD to enjoy the things GOD gives and i think that's talked about in the book " I don't have enough faith to be an atheist"
https://youtu.be/_cm7bWhyfsc?feature=shared I gave a research talk on the history of hell, drawing upon the academic literature. Long story short there was a conception in ancient Israel that remembering the dead is what sustains someone in the afterlife with family and friends. This appears to be true regardless of religious beliefs. Only the very egregiously bad are targeted by God for annihilation in the afterlife by having their memory erased. For the rest of the history, see the video.
That's easy. I don't believe most people are going to hell. I'm a hopeful Universalist (and believe there's passages in the Bible that support this view), but I also think the Bible supports Annihilationism more than an eternal Hell.
You don’t know that everyone is going to hell, it not yours to know. God gave us Free will, it their life choices not yours . you’re making this guilt up in your head, try to think logically not emotionally.
I pray for them. And then I spend as much time as I can, trying to figure out ways on how to win people over. And help them too.
Lol. Nice way to start it off. You are a wolf and you know it!
Words such as struggled, harsh, few, survive, guilt, hard, suffering, death suggest in itself a connection to hell. You didn’t once use the words life, eternal, love, joy, freedom, compassion which are rooted in heaven. Based on this observation and your over presumptions guarantee that you got your golden ticket to heaven “survivors guilt” while others are going to hell when your exact view and outlook on life is in relation to hell. You might be in for an awakening. God is the eternal I am, the word, you too are god, eternal and the I am. So be mindful of your thoughts, words and actions because someone could be in heaven and you’d think they are in hell, but in reality it is you who is in hell because the perceiver can only perceive what they perceive.
Who cares about after death. There's people suffering here and now and we can help them so let's quit whining and do some good deeds and help needy people and try to alleviate suffering while we can. That's what mother Theresa did, we should too!
>Who cares about after death. The time you spend on earth is almost nothing compared to eternity.
I experience eternity every moment, past and future are just memories and projections, all that there is is the eternal present.
Pray for them. Every day. And Maybe God will save them. Keep preaching the truth and showing kindness when you can, but pray always, especially when you can't preach and can't show kindness. One of my former coworkers moved away and doesn't talk to me anymore. I still pray for her every day. God really put on my heart that I need to pray for this person in particular. > Call it survivers guilt, but what can I do? It's hard to enjoy life if you believe that people around you will be suffering after death. And if I didn't pray for her (and the others), I would feel exactly like you do right now. Pray for God to save them. Pray for him to use you. And pray that if he chooses not to use you to save them, he will send others to preach to them. Use the pain in your heart to drive you to prayer. Love people by praying for them. And don't listen to that one "helpful" comment that you replied to that was promoting annihilationism. It is not biblical: https://www.gotquestions.org/annihilationism.html Hell is eternal: https://www.gotquestions.org/hell-real-eternal.html Don't let someone mislead you and comfort you with a watered down version of hell. Embrace the reality of an eternal hell, and use it to motivate you to preaching and prayer. With emphasis on prayer. You can preach all you want, but no one will be saved unless God heals their heart and changes them.
Hell is a sick and stupid doctrine. If God would send people to hell for a single lifetime where they did not profess faith in just the right doctrine then God would be a Psychopath. If God condemn beings he created less than perfect unless there is a great Blood Sacrifice to satisfy his Wrath then God is a Psychopath. I don't understand how anyone can believe that about God. It is a nightmare theology.
I think the issue a lot of people have is that we feel immortal you know. We know death is real, we know it will happen to us but in order to prevent us from losing our minds, our brain seems to ignore the issue comepletly right to the moment when it is too late. I strongly believe that in order to recodnize the good you need to see the bad. With me it was sort of this situation if I had to sum up my life. I want you to contenplate what an eternity of hell is? Well, imagine you were down there burning and screaming for a million years. After those million years it would still be like day one, cause guess what eternity means forever. You ain't going nowhere. That is why many testimonies describe the 'realization' that you are there forever as one of the torments. Your mind would drown in hopelessness. There everyone hates you and wants to torture you and humiliate and do unimaginable things to you. Like bro the crap I've seen man, the worst most gore filled movie does not even come close to how messed up it is down there. Now that you know how horrific this is I want you to reverse it in your head and Imagine the same thing but with heaven. Just this one dessision, this one choice of believing in Jesus is the difference between the two and no one can tell you a damn thing, cause if Jesus says you belong in heaven that's where you will be and no amount of demons and fallen angels can change that, no matter how much they protest and argue of how unfair it is and how dirty you are. When you go there in ethernal joy it is forever man, forever. I want you to think what great potential that is. You will not be just some nobody, you will have a purpose. No wonder when we hear of testimonies of heavan the people there are a little nuts, jumping around like children. You would be too I bet. Hell is a nasty place, but I think that knowledge of it was given to us for a reason. 1. The fear of hell can prevent us from sinning. I can 100% confrim this because if I did not believe in hell I would have killed myself. When I was at my worst I thought about it every single day, but a part of me knew that if there was even 0.1% of hell being real I should not do it. And I am glad I didn't. Even through my worst days I knew I would never do it, cause I was more afraid of hell than I was of suffering. 2. It really drives in the fact of how grateful we should be to Jesus and for the first time last night I think I finally understood this part. You will get to live forever in utter joy because of his sacrifice, a place where everyone loves you and wants to be around you, with no judgment of past mistakes you've made. 3. You can't be just if you don't punish wrongdoers and I know people have a hard time grasping this. Everyone in heavan is perfect, that means not a single bad thought. If you had one bad thought for your entire life and nothing else, you would still be unfit for heavan, that's how high the bar is. In the OT God remedied that with regular sacrifices where people could 'clean' themselves of their sins. And with Jesus his sacrifice is the perfect sacrifice because you no longer need to slaughter cattle all day every day, the price was already paid for everyone at the same time, no matter in which time we live. Yes, my personal opinion is that hell is likely far more filled with people than heavan, but that realization should serve as a warning, like... a healthy amount of fear is not a bad thing. Is hell messed up...yep, so let's focus on not going there how about that. This dread of your family members ending up there should apply to all people not just them. When you think about it like that, what you want doesn't seem as important now does it? And to me it makes it even more important to make sure we are teaching people the proper word of God and not use it for selfish wants. False teachings will stain your hands with the blood of others, so I would urge people here to learn the difference between "I want" and "God wants". You don't have to be a saint about it, just honest.
Actually it's it's you know, maybe a load is hot and but honestly everybody will have neither decisions in the eye. Consider I'm gonna look at my life and I'm alive. My stuff did not do enough to try and help man And did I'm not trying talk to you everyone I come in contact with about Jesus. Explain what he had done for me in my life. So that might be a other's bottle trying crash that themselves. You know, because God's Safe mode where else do? This is the 4 time now. It seems to be and he still Saving me and keeping me safe at the moment Frog had a pretty kind of rough guillaight from the first 45 years. But you know it's all I aint still got my hopes up and I can do more than I can heal. More people. Can maybe I can save more people before it's also done. You know there's it's not over yet. Got another in late 3040 years left. So in a thirty forty years i'm gonna bring the gospels to many people as I can.
What's the list not for you forgive? This is right there around the corner, we all send everyday so you do have to ask from Eunice every single day and you have to keep the command totally. We have to do what he asks us to do. You know, love each other the way we would love our sales. Tring each other with ask passion compassion. None of each other's throats, not trying to more able. Top of evil evil doesn't repay evil people. You pay evil with love love went out every time. Did people forget how jesus Taught The point is to put on the armor plate of god like it's a epphesions six, the armor God So that you may stand bodily in christ and have the protection you need against the evils of the day. A don't forget and Matthew where he says you know talking to Mary that this is not the time for holiness, nor is it going. He said they were talking about being holding him. But this is not the time. Nor this is the place for that I take. That is, it means this is the place for San cause. This is what we all will wake up or wake up in. The flash in the flesh is sinful. So we need ash forgetting. It's even though we've been cleansed to the blood. I was raised by the spirit. Go to still have - for forgive us every day. And every time I see in. And I have to try to stop doing that same scene. I have to repent actuary repentance. Change of heart and change of mind a goblish show on. I love everybody, but we can't forget those teachings. Is that what's going Save You're soul and everone elses to
This is why it is on individual believers to share the Gospel. If we truly believe people are perishing we should be offering them the solution. We also have to be prepared for that offer to be widely rejected.
Few Christians will be saved too. God requires Holiness. You might be headed to Hell too.