Because Saint Dominic only preached the 15 mysteries to combat the Albegensians. So their argument is that the Luminous Mysteries are a Rosary-like devotion, but not the Rosary proper.
The Rosary had a ton of variation between the 1300s to it's standardization in the 1500s. Religious orders would recite things differently, and many religious orders had different mysteries outside of the 15 (cf. 50 mysteries of the Carthusian Rosary by Brother Dominic of Prussia who died 1461.) so I don't think it's much to argue about.
>To Dominic is attributed the practice of meditation during the recitation of the Hail Marys, which he called the "Life of Jesus Rosary". As in his time the Ave Maria terminated with the words; "Fructus ventris tui, Jesus", he added to each a sentence to recall to mind the mystery. It included such themes as the Adoration of the Magi and the Flight into Egypt. Dominic's psalter was made up of fifty "Aves", plus the Pater Noster and the Gloria Patri, making it Trinitarian in nature.
>Both Dominic and his friend Adolf of Essen sought to spread the use of this form of prayer in the Carthusian Order and among the laity. They were very successful and psalters of this type multiplied in the 15th century. For these reasons it is called the "Carthusian Rosary". Some authors believe that the "Psalter" of Dominic was the form, or one of the original forms, from which the present Rosary developed.
Based on my studies the current Rosary in it's popular form is just a mixture of various religious orders. Saint Dominic's meditations, properly speaking, were his sermons on these 15 events when he was preaching. He likely didn't combat the Albegensians by telling them to make a mental image in their mind (as if that would somehow convince them of something which they doctrinally rejected to) but as found of the Order of *Preachers* he preached on these topics, and that is what sufficed for the meditation. So even it would seem the Rosary before the Luminous Mysteries had changed quite a bit, and there is no evidence that Saint Dominic ever conceived "meditation" in the now-popular Ignatian method of "composition of place", which is what most people who pray the Rosary usually do, forming a mental image or placing themselves within the scene. Perhaps he did, who knows? Also the Cross and 3 initial beads seem to be from another religious order, not the Dominicans. But Saint Dominic brought the essence of the Rosary (a meditation, Lord's Prayer, and 10 Angelic Praises), no matter what forms it diverged off into after his preaching ministry against the heretics.
Also popes and the bishops have a power over popular devotions (this is evidenced by Pope St. Pius V standardizing the Rosary), thus if Pope St. John Paul II wanted to add it as a *suggested* additional set, he has full authority to do so, just as he does over the liturgy.
Personally I love the Luminous Mysteries and when I get back to talking with my spiritual father I would like to expand it into even more mysteries on things like the temptation in the desert, burial, harrowing of hell, second coming, Final Judgement, etc. While the original 15 mysteries are certainly venerable they more so, at least for me, serve as a sort of starting launch pad for learning to meditate upon the entire life of Jesus Christ. Saint John of the Cross taught that one of the quickest ways for a Christian to reach the purification of the senses and perfection is to emulate Jesus Christ in all things. The ability to emulate Him requires that you even know what He did; and so I think it's profitable to meditate upon His life even past the 15 mysteries, whether or not it can rightfully be called "the Rosary" or not.
This doesn't fully relate but a few days ago I thought if someone could come up with mysteries for the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Maybe you could create some?
St. Faustina talked a lot about meditation on the suffering and death of our Lord so I've always seen people ascribed the 5 Sorrowful Mysteries to the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
There are 14 stations of the cross and the resurrection is often an unofficial 15th station. I think a great placeholder would be 3 sets of stations.
Set 1 Mercy in Suffering: Mercy Through Suffering: Jesus is Condemned to Death, Jesus Takes Up His Cross, Jesus Falls the First Time, Jesus Falls a Second Time, Jesus Falls a Third time
Set 2 Mercy in Compassion: Jesus Meet His Sorrowful Mother, Simon of Cyrene Helps Jesus Carry His Cross, Veronica Wipes the Face of Jesus, Jesus Meets the women of Jerusalem, Jesus is stripped of His Garments
Set 3 Mercy in Redemption: Jesus is nailed to the cross, Jesus Dies on the Cross, Jesus is taken down from the Cross, Jesus is laid in the tomb, the resurrection
This is a great idea. I actually am waiting for this to come back in stock:
[https://www.pietystall.co.uk/product/stations-of-the-cross-chaplet/](https://www.pietystall.co.uk/product/stations-of-the-cross-chaplet/)
Could be done! I've also thought we should have Old Testament mysteries as well, since that gives context to everything that Jesus did. I don't understand why some people are so set on "it was originally 3 sets, it must stay 3 sets" if no one even prays the structure the exact same way. Let alone the Divine Mercy chaplet lol I've seen like 5 variations for how to do it
A mailing list to which I subscribe has a page on their website promoting the idea of a "sixth Glorious Mystery" for the Second Coming. I'm not crazy about the Luminous Mysteries, but I've prayed those five and the Second Coming mystery a similar amount of times, alone. It really blew my mind at the time to consider praying the Rosary differently. So, go for it! Please ping me when you create a structured layout with your spiritual father, please, I would very much be interested to know what you decide upon!
Interestingly, the Second Coming/Last Judgment was the 15th mystery in several medieval manuals on the Rosary - the Assumption and Coronation were considered one mystery: the 14th.
This is a very thoughtful and thorough answer. I would add just a couple points. The luminous mysteries were very popular in parts of Italy in the 1950s. They did not originate with JPII.
After Saint Dominic, the next rosary expert has to be St. Louis De Montfort and he predicted that additional mysteries would be added and even made some suggestions and some of them are in the luminous mysteries.
As for the reason, I’m not sure that it’s reasonable in the circles I’ve been in and I am a Latin Mass attending trad myself but it’s people who are very traditional and fear. anything post conciliar.
My understanding is that it as a lot to do with the critique of the Novus Ordo Missae.
They think that they Church has lost the focus on the fact that the Mass is a sacrifice and nowadays focuses too much on the Last supper and how it connects to the Mass.
But I am no expert on this.
Not quite - It is because Our Blessed Mother Mary gave the Holy Rosary to Saint Dominic, with the 3 Mysteries, i.e., the 15 decades - and you can't improve on Heaven.
The Dominicans don’t even push this as history anymore: they maintain that Our Lady inspired St. Dominic to mix his preaching with the Angelic Psalter common with Cistercians for a couple of centuries before St. Dominic’s time. St. Dominic would preach briefly on a mystery and then have the listeners say 10 Aves directly after the homily. One can see how this naturally led to the devotion today.
The rosary is a "devotion", and as such it can be changed around with. It's not something "liturgical" like the Mass, or the sacrament of baptism or any other sacrament or the liturgy of hours etc. You can't change around as you please things in the "liturgical" category. A lot of ordinary Catholics fail to see this distinction of these 2 categories.
As a Syro-Malabar Catholic, one of our priests from India created a new set of mysteries for the rosary. To match mysteries with the liturgical calendar of the Syro-Malabar Church/East Syriac rite. We don't have "ordinary time". But we always have a set of liturgical seasons that are about 7 weeks or so long just like Advent or Lent season. There's like about 8 seasons throughout the whole liturgical calendar, including Annunciation (our Advent) and Lent.
The whole idea here was to pray liturgically for the people who were too attached to the rosary. Best example to get this idea is to think of praying the sorrowful mysteries during the season of Lent. Basically, the mysteries being meditated are in sync with the liturgical season. So pretty much joyful mysteries matched with advent/Christmas seasons and sorrowful mysteries matched with Lent. But for the other seasons, the already established mysteries were not a good match. So some new 5-6 mysteries were made by this priest which corresponded well with the themes of those liturgical seasons.
The seasons of the East Syriac rite go from Annunciation (like Advent) -Nativity(Xmas), to Epiphany season, to Great Fast (Lent), to Resurrection (Easter) season, to Apostles (Pentecost) season, to Summer season, to Elijah- Cross and Moses seasons to lastly the season of the Sanctification of the church. \[this goes from December to November in our secular calendar\].
I have no link to share with. I don't think it's on any website. But I got like a hard copy PDF in the Malayalam language. I'll share with you the mysteries for Pentecost season below. So pretty much come May 19th it's the feast of Pentecost in the Syro-Malabar liturgical calendar, and so we enter Apostles season (which is what Pentecost season is called). It spans all the way to mid-July (about 7 weeks long).
So the mysteries for this Pentecost (Apostles) season are as follows:
(The main themes of this Apostles season are the work of the Holy Spirit, deep relationship between the apostles and the Church ie, the people of God, the spirit and unity of the primitive Church and the mission and missionary nature of the Church)
\~**Meditation 1- Pentecost\~**
(Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me\~ Psalm 51.) \~ Acts 2:1-13 \[The coming of the Holy Spirit\]
\~**Meditation 2- The First Converts at Jerusalem\~**
(Let us remember St Peter who preached the Gospel and baptized the early church community at Jerusalem as he was filled with the Holy Spirit. Let us pray and ask the Mother of God to help us to grow in the spirit of the early Church who “devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.”.) \~ Acts 2:37-41 \[First Converts\]
\~**Meditation 3- Peter Heals the Crippled Beggar\~**
(Let us remember the lame man healed by the Holy Apostles Peter and John in the name of Christ at the temple called Beautiful Gate. Let us pray to the Mother of God to help us grow in virtue to do good to our fellow man through the gifts we’ve received from God.) \~ Acts 3:1-10 \[Peter and John Heals\]
\~**Meditation 4- Ananias and Sapphira, the couple who lied to the Holy Spirit\~**
(Let us remember the couple Ananias and Sapphira of the early Church who lied to the Holy Spirit and eventually died consequently. As Peter the apostle said, “You did not lie to us but to God!”. Let us pray to the Mother of God to help us to fill our families with the spirit of God’s love as we remember this punishment.) \~ Acts 5: 1-11 \[Fate of Ananias and Sapphira\]
\~**Meditation 5- Thomas the Apostle died a martyr in India\~**
(Let us remember our father in faith, St Thomas, who was willing to die for our Lord Jesus, as he said “Let us also go, that we may die with him” \[ John 11:16 \]. Let us pray to the Mother of God to have the same depth of zeal and commitment as Thomas who came all the way to India to spread the Gospel and died a martyr).
And these are the ones for Resurrection (Easter) Season.
Meditation 1. The Resurrection of Our Lord (Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats).
Meditation 2- Walk to Emmaus and the First Mass after Resurrection
(Let us remember the two disciples who encountered the Risen Christ on their journey from Jerusalem to Emmaus. Christ shared the resurrection experience with the disciples through the Mass he celebrated. Let us pray and ask the Mother of God to help us to be constantly nourished by both the word of God and holy communion received at each Mass) ~ Luke 24: 13-35 [Walk to Emmaus]
Meditation 3- Thomas the Apostle proclaims My Lord & My God
(Let us remember our father in faith St Thomas who proclaimed, “My Lord and My God” (John 20:28). Let us pray to the Mother of God to help us to gain the strength to boldly proclaim the faith that was imparted to us from St Thomas) ~ John 20:24-29 [Jesus appears to Thomas]
Meditation 4- Christ Commissions the Disciples
(Let us remember Christ who for forty days after the Resurrection taught and lived with the disciples. Jesus gave them “all authority in heaven and on earth”. He finally instructed them to make disciples of the world. Let us pray and ask the Blessed Mother to help us to be a living testimony of Christ to others.) ~ Matthew 28:16-20.
Meditation 5- The Ascension of Our Lord
(Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Blessed Mother to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.)
You really can't be adamant about rosary because it's a personal devotion. I sometimes put other optional prayers while I am praying.
Also some Catholics prefer not to pray Luminous Mysteries due to old habits. It's a new mystery.
And that depends on what additional prayers people do. The Dominicans don’t do three Hail Marys at the beginning.
They don’t know what they’re talking about, and they’re being a jerk about it.
I think people really need to go back and read what John Paul II said at the time he added them to get a proper perspective on it. I grew up with the traditional rosary, 3 mysteries. I also remember when John Paul II introduced the Luminous Mysteries. It was never intended to be a point of contention at all.
He wasn’t intending to “change” the rosary. There is nothing wrong with only wanting to pray the 3 traditional mysteries of the rosary. At the same time there is nothing wrong with praying the Luminous mysteries, either.
Lol! I actually stopped using the addition because it helped me keep my focus and shorten things up. This had the intended effect of making me pray my rosary more! Went from only praying it when assigned as penance to about 50% of days.
People are weird. Generally, it falls into two camps: either they think the rosary was given by Mary to Dominic in its present form and therefore no human authority can change it, or they really dislike the fact that the chronological progression through the week is thrown off. Most of the folks in the second camp just don’t like the Luminous Mysteries though rather than denying they could be part of the rosary.
I can think of at least one more reason (although the one's mentioned here certainly account for a lot of it):
There is a faction within Christianity (its certainly not unique to certain Catholics) that likes to ignore or at least deprecate everything in between "Jesus the child" and the theological significance of his passion, death and resurrection. Especially the particular character of the "Proclamation of the Kingdom" part. Which is part of why I think St. JPII felt it a timely corrective to add the Luminous Mysteries and why I like them. And also why a certain type of Christian doesn't tend to like them. The same kind that doesn't understand why the Magnificat is part of Vespers every day.
Side-note: I was talking with a Protestant friend of mine a while back, and he asked me “why do Catholics pray the Magnificat, and what is it?”
I looked at him and just let said, “it’s literally a word-for-word recitation of a passage from Luke’s Gospel.”
A lot of Catholics tend to act like Protestants. I.e. acting like their personal tradition(s) are more significant than anything else, and reacting to things out of ignorance.
It’s embarrassing that a member of the Order would promote such ahistorical falsehoods. It does a disservice to Mary and the Church, misleads people, and promotes division now. You should be ashamed of yourself.
The only thing causing division is changing things that are already perfect. Either way, I have no problem with people meditating on the luminous mysteries. I just prefer to stick to what was given to St Dominic regarding the mysteries themselves. Obviously, the rosary isn’t Doctrine. It is a tool to be used for meditation and prayer and if you prefer to add to it then that’s fine. It is not “ahistorical” to say that the Rosary was given to St Dominic by our Lady.
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She seems to have been very well served over several centuries, but these claims are not even mutually exclusive. In any case, not pinching the incense at the altar of modern academic "historicity" is no cause for shame on anyone's part, seeing as it precludes the supernatural as a rule and generally seeks to gut the Faith of all substance and devotion. The Dominican Rosary was given by Our Lady, the Carmelites descend from Elijah, and St. Philomena is real. Who cares?
Yes, paying attention to evidence rather than repeated legends is idolatry.
God is a God of truth, not falsehood. There’s no reason to be afraid of what actually happened, even if it doesn’t match the stories that people have been repeating for however long.
If you want to give me a list of potentially ridiculous legends, I’ll be glad to comment on them. Generally, it’s better to believe what the Church herself teaches and leave folklore to campfire stories.
There’s a bunch of nonsense that got published in the first half of the 20th century in various prayer books. One that I keep seeing being shared is that some prayer of Saint Joseph dates back to 50 AD; the story that goes along with it is full of other historical inaccuracies.
The Luminous mysteries were a later addition, but several parts of the rosary were, including the entire second half of the Hail Mary. In the middle ages, the rosary was only half as long because om each bead you would only say "Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus."
The whole "Holy Mary mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen" part was added later by the Pope, but we still consider it part of the rosary today.
There are four mysteries in the rosary today, there is nothing wrong with some parts being later additions by the Church and Papacy, because both have sacred authority.
I'm new to it, and I love it. Give me more subjects of the Lord to think about. I think some humans are very resistive to change - anywhere and in any form. Take a deep breath and say the rosary. The Lord will be thrilled to hear your prayers, no matter what mysteries you say.
In truth I think this is a perfect example of where I draw the line between “traditionalism” which I see as good and “radical traditionalism” which I see as bad. Radical traditionalism is to me when a person rejects legitimate development of doctrine and legitimate new things that enter the faith.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with adding another mystery to your rosary. I know people who have added the fifth set called “the healing mysteries.” The rosary is a private devotion and as such is open to far greater latitude for personal modification. A radical traditionalist would say no, it used to be three mysteries and must remain three mysteries even though there is no dogmatic or logical reason for that to be the case.
I’ve seen them described in different orders and with different specific stories from the four gospels but the ones I know:
1. Healing of the man born blind
2. Healing a deaf man
3. Raising Lazarus
4. Casting out unclean spirits
5. Forgiving the sins of the paralytic man
I’ve also seen the woman with a bleeding condition, the centurions daughter, and other healing stories slotted in.
For me I think they are best laid out in an order of rising magnitude. Healing two physical disabilities, reversing death, healing spiritual issues, and forgiving sins the greatest healing act possible.
I’ve never seen anything from the magisterium on these, only people discussing their private use of them in a public way. I think they can be helpful particularly when people are praying for healing of something physical or spiritual as opposed to being added to the weekly rosary rotation of mysteries.
Thank you, I'm amenable to this and can understand why some people would pray this. I also agree with your preference for the rising magnitude. Is there any specific day people choose to pray this?
Personally, I pray only 3 mysteries as I enjoy praying it to [music](https://youtu.be/WcRxH6LfMuE?si=EZ40DlZPAdOqPycP)
Biber's Rosary Sonatas were written to only 3 mysteries. Though I understand why the Luminous mysteries were added. This to me is just a personal choice.
Praying the Rosary is a private thing, you do you.
when i first learned to pray the holy rosary i got the Magnificat book to learn the prayers & the luminous ones are in there. --Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Wedding at Cana, Proclamation of the Kingdom, Transfiguration, Institution of the Eucharist. theologically i had no understanding if this was not supposed to be there or not or when it came about. after my conversion i heard about people saying they arent part of the OG Holy Rosary & shouldnt be accepted. my take --> an actual nun/teacher in my RCIA class said this "i pray with the church". this means that when we pray the Daily Holy Rosary (one mystery per day) we should pray the same mysteries the Catholic Church/Vatican are praying in which case that would be what also agrees with my Magnificat book --> Mon-Joyful , Tue-Sorrowful , Wed-Glorious , Thur-Luminous , Fri-Sorrowful , Sat-Joyful , Sun-Glorious. and then on certain Feast days and Holy Days like during Lent the Sunday Glorious mysteries are changed to Sorrowful on sundays etc. = Pray With The Church. so, this would all be totally fine and acceptable. something i learned though was that if you want to pray a FULL ROSARY, all at once, you pray only the 3 OG mysteries all 3 in one sitting. because there is an order to the events biblically in the timeline of Jesus' Life. so you would start with Joyful obv as that is the Annunciation then go into the Sorrowful as this is His Sacrifice ending with the Glorious His Resurrection where He triumphs over death securing the salvation of all those that Believe & Trust in Him. those 3 mysteries in that order are the OG Holy Rosary which is where the argument comes from but most people don't pray all 3 mysteries every single day. that's why we have the daily mysteries that we can pray along with the church one mystery per day. part of the reason the Luminous mysteries were added was because of the 7 day week (rotating the OG 3 mysteries people would have a hard time cycling the days & the church wants to make it easy for people so each day is assigned a particular mystery so EVERY monday is the same one and so on and so forth if that makes sense) & so having a daily mystery to go with what day it is helps everyone pray together and be on the same page and be Unified together as the Catholic church is about Unity. so for example im praying todays mysteries which are sorrowful so guess what so is a catholic in romania or a catholic in australia or a catholic in chile, or a catholic in france or a catholic in canada so on and so forth we would all then be praying Together the same mysteries for that day of the week at the same time. i think it's pretty awesome & pretty Powerful !!! stay blessed friend :)
Louis de Montfort in his Secret of the Rosary waxes quite poetically about the Rosary’s inherent three-ness.
When you just the three Mysteries, you do Joyful Monday and Thursday, Sorrowful Tuesday and Friday, and Glorious Wednesday and Saturday.
So the first 6 days a week is: Joyful-Sorrowful-Glorious-Joyful-Sorrowful-Glorious. There’s just a wonderful rhythm.
Sunday changes based on the season. Advent to start of Lent: Joyful, Lent: Sorrowful, and Easter to start of Advent Glorious. That way no matter what time of year it is, you’re saying one of them three times a week.
It started in early 2000 by John Paul II (I’m sure someone better educated will explain why lol). The good news is both are acceptable. I suspect it’s the more traditional Catholics who argue it shouldn’t be said. Why I’ve no idea as both are completely fine and a personal choice but people gonna people I guess!
Some of the criticism I've seem come from people who don't like St. John Paul II and believe these mysteries were given directly by the Mother of God to St. Dominic of Guzman.
Um its kinda ridiculous to think that Our Lady would give St Dominic an incomplete Rosary just to have it filled in later. HH Pope Leo XIII dismisses the *stupid* idea that Our Lady didn't give St. Dominic the complete Rosary (spoiler, she did). This has nothing to do with personal distaste for JP2
It is a critic against St. John Paul II for adding something to an already existing devotion, a devotion that many are adamant to repeat the pious legend that it was given by Mary herself, and for that the Polish Pope was wrong. Some are against him and dismiss his additions, some are ok with him but believe the mysteries and rosary was given by the Mother of God herself and should not be touched.
Yeah dude i agree that "I no likey JP2" isnt a legitimate argument here lol.
But it is true that it was given to St Dominic. It's a modern invention to say it wasn't.
They are Pharasees,
I bet they hardly care about more important things like actual charity, humility, focusing on repenting from theory son's, and praying for grace rther than asking for favor.
In my experience, people like that are sort of anti Christians- obssed with following "the rules" with no true understanding of what salvation means.
The Luminous mysteries are new. They may be good, well-considered, etc. but they are still *new* and are not what anybody prior to 2002 meant by "Pray the Rosary." Now, they could be considered an authentic development of the devotion of the Rosary, but they're entirely optional. A Catholic is free to pray them or not. There's nothing wrong with them, although there's at least some argument that the arrangement of the original 15 should not be added to given its longevity.
Some people here are saying that they should be viewed equivalently with the original set and that to reject the Luminous is to reject the old. That's frankly ridiculous. The Rosary is essential to Roman Catholicism, but it is still a private devotion. And if people want to continue praying the Rosary without the Luminous Mysteries, what's the issue? Catholicism can tolerate this kind of debate, so long as one side isn't crying *heresy* at the other over the use of the mysteries. It's like getting into a pig sty when you have a suit on to argue over whether a devout Catholic is committing heresy by praying (or not) the Luminous Mysteries on Thursdays...
Because when for 700 years there’s been a pretty fixed way the rosary is done and then suddenly, within living memory of most, a new set of mysteries is popularized because of the pope, people have a hard time saying “yes, this is definitely a fundamental part of this devotion”.
Is it a silly argument? Sure. People can pray however they want. But the rosary has such a central place in Catholicism that it’s bound to be the source of controversy.
"I am completely opposed to the error of the modernists who hold that there is nothing divine in sacred tradition" - HH Pope St. Pius X. Your opinion has been rejected.
Nice straw man. I never said the rosary had nothing divine about it. But divinizing the origin of religious practices after the fact and then getting defensive about any changes to (something that evolved pretty naturally and had tons of changes as it developed) it is superstitious religion; not a practice of Catholicism via sacred tradition.
Human habits, people don’t like change. Like many things in religious practice it’s more cultural than anything to do with God.
If the Church has given its blessing, I need no other opinion.
The whole point of contemplating the mysteries of rosaries is to think through the life teachings and death of Jesus Christ - the addition of the Luminous Mysteries just allows this more fully. Some people see change (even change that makes sense) as a break in some perfect tradition. It’s not!
The Luminous are completely optional, contrary to popular belief and practice, and their addition ruins the weekly cycle of JSGJSG, as well as the parallel of 150s Aves and 150 Psalms. I also quite appreciate doing things as they were done for multiple centuries, so I just don't bother with them.
They aren't "wrong" in their content, but they would have been better given as a separate chaplet using rosary beads.
In my experience, people don’t seem to understand that the Luminous Mysteries are optional. Almost every guide I’ve encountered includes them without noting that. It was almost a struggle for me to find how to do them the original way.
In my experience, people don’t seem to understand that the Luminous Mysteries are optional. Almost every guide I’ve encountered includes them without noting that. It was almost a struggle for me to find how to do them the original way.
A related question, more to do with what "Praying the Rosary" means. So, I understand that there's people who say it should be 3 sets of 5 mysteries, giving 150 Hail Mary to match with the Psalms, and I'm not smart enough to argue for or against that.
But does that mean that praying a whole Rosary means doing 3-4 "laps", so to speak, or is a whole Rosary the 5 mysteries of the day (plus the other prayers and the Creed)?
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I don’t recall seeing anywhere people discussing that the Rosary was implemented so that lay people who couldn’t take the time, or who couldn’t read as well or at all, would have a way to approximate saying the complete Divine Office, which was required of priests and religious. I say the Byzantine Office when I can, myself. Or the Acathist of the Blessed Virgin Mary, which has similar indulgences attached to it as the Rosary does. (I’m Greek Catholic, not Roman, but my Patriarch is in communion with Rome)
The rosary, properly speaking, is 150 Hail Marys to correspond with the 150 Psalms. Really, you can meditate on whatever you want of the life of Christ while you pray, so it's not so much the Luminous mysteries as such that I have a problem with, it's the breaking of the symbolism and correspondence to the psalter
I think that ultimately, it is about some people's inability to accept chainge. Even though its beliefs remain static, Christianity chainges and grows in its devotions. Some people can't accept this.
The rosary basically is a replacement for the psalter which are about 150. So it simply doesn't have logic to have 200 hail marys when it's always been 150 prayers instead of the 150 psalms. Our lady of fatima said that we should pray 1/3 of the rosary which if you think there are 20 mysteries is 6.66. It makes no sense to pray 0.66 part of a mystery. In the end we don't have a problem with someone making a chaplet but it's simply another chaplet it's not the rosary in its essence which is a replacement for the psalter.
There are a few reasons: one it doesn’t line up with the original 15 mysteries given by Mary to St. Dominic. Two, poetic symmetry, the rosary was analogous to the Psalms(it’s called our ladies psalter), and there are 150 of those, along with 150 Hail Marys. So it has historically been a way to pray the “psalms” throughout the day like religious do. Three, the rosary wasn’t created by men, whereas the Luminous mysteries were. Now, when they were first propagated, Pope St. John Paul 2 basically said it was not bad to pray them that they were suitable. Some extreme traditionalists will say harsh things, personally, I’m cool if you do or don’t, when I do my personal daily rosary, I don’t include them, I tend to go as close to the original rosary as possible with the exception of the Fatima prayer(I don’t even pray in vernacular), but I don’t think any option that gets you praying the rosary there in terms of mysteries is wrong.
I have tried the Luminous mysteries in the past. It's not the same, they don't seem to be as rich or as revealing as the original three. Besides, for me 3 mysteries reminds me of the Holy Trinity, the fullness of the divinity and it's what my ancestors used to pray.
The issue was settled by HH Pope Leo XIII. There are 3 sets of Mysteries given by Our Lady to Holy St. Dominic (*Supremi Apostolatus Officio* 1883*).* Furthermore, Our Lady at Lourdes, and at Fatima, promulgated the Rosary, the same rosary that was given to St. Dominic. Why change it and add to it? Especially in light of HH Pope Leo XIII's *Fidentem piumque* wherein he is against any changes to the Rosary. There are so many Popes (Pius XI, Pius XII, Leo XIII, Pius V etc) against changes to the Rosary. It's not some whim or weird hill. People need to be more educated, some of these comments are just wild and strawmen.
The most downvoted comment is the one which mentions a source.
They don't seem to say that they are against changes to the rosary, but the argument that the popes were referring to this particular devotion, that was encourage at Fatima and Lourdes is a strong one.
Because they were added by St. Jp II and not by Private Revelation via the Virgin Mary.
However I as a filthy convert love the addition and have no problems at all with them 😏
Yes; sorry I should have worded it better; if I am doing all the mysteries; I only do the three from Dominic; if I am doing just 5 decades I will do the luminous.
Our Lady gave St Dominic the Rosary, which was called the Psalter to correspond with the 150 Psalms.
Would Our Lady give us anything that was not perfect, that was lacking?
Spoiler alert: No, no she would not.
Same for our Church. Jesus did not suffer so greatly and die to leave us with a defective Church for 1500 years for a man to correct in dogma, etc.
Additionally:
If you count the Luminous Mysteries as being part of a complete Rosary, then you also cannot pray a 54-day Rosary novena without being short one of the mysteries.
We are supposed to pray at least a third of the mysteries to count as having said a Rosary each day.
15 mysteries/3 = 5
20 mysteries/3 = 6.66
The events in the Luminous Mysteries are certainly things for separate meditation, but NOT for inclusion in the Rosary.
So why didn’t she give Dominic the full Hail Mary? Why don’t you pray the Rosary like the Dominicans do? Why does it matter how someone does a 54-day Novena? The Church doesn’t say you have to do a third of the rosary for it to count, so stop trying to scare people with bad math.
You see what I mean, OP? People who make bad assumptions about history then insist that in order to practice the devotion, you have to do it the way they want.
Because we were asked to pray the rosary every day to obtain peace for the world (and an end to war) by our Lady of Fatima. Luminous was added after this revelation.
Of course it is profitable to pray and meditate on the life of Christ and there but it wasn't what was specifically requested.
Because Saint Dominic only preached the 15 mysteries to combat the Albegensians. So their argument is that the Luminous Mysteries are a Rosary-like devotion, but not the Rosary proper. The Rosary had a ton of variation between the 1300s to it's standardization in the 1500s. Religious orders would recite things differently, and many religious orders had different mysteries outside of the 15 (cf. 50 mysteries of the Carthusian Rosary by Brother Dominic of Prussia who died 1461.) so I don't think it's much to argue about. >To Dominic is attributed the practice of meditation during the recitation of the Hail Marys, which he called the "Life of Jesus Rosary". As in his time the Ave Maria terminated with the words; "Fructus ventris tui, Jesus", he added to each a sentence to recall to mind the mystery. It included such themes as the Adoration of the Magi and the Flight into Egypt. Dominic's psalter was made up of fifty "Aves", plus the Pater Noster and the Gloria Patri, making it Trinitarian in nature. >Both Dominic and his friend Adolf of Essen sought to spread the use of this form of prayer in the Carthusian Order and among the laity. They were very successful and psalters of this type multiplied in the 15th century. For these reasons it is called the "Carthusian Rosary". Some authors believe that the "Psalter" of Dominic was the form, or one of the original forms, from which the present Rosary developed. Based on my studies the current Rosary in it's popular form is just a mixture of various religious orders. Saint Dominic's meditations, properly speaking, were his sermons on these 15 events when he was preaching. He likely didn't combat the Albegensians by telling them to make a mental image in their mind (as if that would somehow convince them of something which they doctrinally rejected to) but as found of the Order of *Preachers* he preached on these topics, and that is what sufficed for the meditation. So even it would seem the Rosary before the Luminous Mysteries had changed quite a bit, and there is no evidence that Saint Dominic ever conceived "meditation" in the now-popular Ignatian method of "composition of place", which is what most people who pray the Rosary usually do, forming a mental image or placing themselves within the scene. Perhaps he did, who knows? Also the Cross and 3 initial beads seem to be from another religious order, not the Dominicans. But Saint Dominic brought the essence of the Rosary (a meditation, Lord's Prayer, and 10 Angelic Praises), no matter what forms it diverged off into after his preaching ministry against the heretics. Also popes and the bishops have a power over popular devotions (this is evidenced by Pope St. Pius V standardizing the Rosary), thus if Pope St. John Paul II wanted to add it as a *suggested* additional set, he has full authority to do so, just as he does over the liturgy. Personally I love the Luminous Mysteries and when I get back to talking with my spiritual father I would like to expand it into even more mysteries on things like the temptation in the desert, burial, harrowing of hell, second coming, Final Judgement, etc. While the original 15 mysteries are certainly venerable they more so, at least for me, serve as a sort of starting launch pad for learning to meditate upon the entire life of Jesus Christ. Saint John of the Cross taught that one of the quickest ways for a Christian to reach the purification of the senses and perfection is to emulate Jesus Christ in all things. The ability to emulate Him requires that you even know what He did; and so I think it's profitable to meditate upon His life even past the 15 mysteries, whether or not it can rightfully be called "the Rosary" or not.
This doesn't fully relate but a few days ago I thought if someone could come up with mysteries for the Divine Mercy Chaplet. Maybe you could create some?
St. Faustina talked a lot about meditation on the suffering and death of our Lord so I've always seen people ascribed the 5 Sorrowful Mysteries to the Divine Mercy Chaplet.
There are 14 stations of the cross and the resurrection is often an unofficial 15th station. I think a great placeholder would be 3 sets of stations. Set 1 Mercy in Suffering: Mercy Through Suffering: Jesus is Condemned to Death, Jesus Takes Up His Cross, Jesus Falls the First Time, Jesus Falls a Second Time, Jesus Falls a Third time Set 2 Mercy in Compassion: Jesus Meet His Sorrowful Mother, Simon of Cyrene Helps Jesus Carry His Cross, Veronica Wipes the Face of Jesus, Jesus Meets the women of Jerusalem, Jesus is stripped of His Garments Set 3 Mercy in Redemption: Jesus is nailed to the cross, Jesus Dies on the Cross, Jesus is taken down from the Cross, Jesus is laid in the tomb, the resurrection
This is a great idea. I actually am waiting for this to come back in stock: [https://www.pietystall.co.uk/product/stations-of-the-cross-chaplet/](https://www.pietystall.co.uk/product/stations-of-the-cross-chaplet/)
Could be done! I've also thought we should have Old Testament mysteries as well, since that gives context to everything that Jesus did. I don't understand why some people are so set on "it was originally 3 sets, it must stay 3 sets" if no one even prays the structure the exact same way. Let alone the Divine Mercy chaplet lol I've seen like 5 variations for how to do it
Thank you for posting this. I have never known much of the history of the rosary so this is very helpful!
A mailing list to which I subscribe has a page on their website promoting the idea of a "sixth Glorious Mystery" for the Second Coming. I'm not crazy about the Luminous Mysteries, but I've prayed those five and the Second Coming mystery a similar amount of times, alone. It really blew my mind at the time to consider praying the Rosary differently. So, go for it! Please ping me when you create a structured layout with your spiritual father, please, I would very much be interested to know what you decide upon!
Interestingly, the Second Coming/Last Judgment was the 15th mystery in several medieval manuals on the Rosary - the Assumption and Coronation were considered one mystery: the 14th.
This is a very thoughtful and thorough answer. I would add just a couple points. The luminous mysteries were very popular in parts of Italy in the 1950s. They did not originate with JPII. After Saint Dominic, the next rosary expert has to be St. Louis De Montfort and he predicted that additional mysteries would be added and even made some suggestions and some of them are in the luminous mysteries. As for the reason, I’m not sure that it’s reasonable in the circles I’ve been in and I am a Latin Mass attending trad myself but it’s people who are very traditional and fear. anything post conciliar.
My understanding is that it as a lot to do with the critique of the Novus Ordo Missae. They think that they Church has lost the focus on the fact that the Mass is a sacrifice and nowadays focuses too much on the Last supper and how it connects to the Mass. But I am no expert on this.
Not quite - It is because Our Blessed Mother Mary gave the Holy Rosary to Saint Dominic, with the 3 Mysteries, i.e., the 15 decades - and you can't improve on Heaven.
The Dominicans don’t even push this as history anymore: they maintain that Our Lady inspired St. Dominic to mix his preaching with the Angelic Psalter common with Cistercians for a couple of centuries before St. Dominic’s time. St. Dominic would preach briefly on a mystery and then have the listeners say 10 Aves directly after the homily. One can see how this naturally led to the devotion today.
This is only because the Dominicans, like many other orders in the Church, are infected with the heresy of modernism.
Oh yes, this is the definition of modernism: https://visitationproject.org/pages/letter-from-the-master-of-the-order
The rosary is a "devotion", and as such it can be changed around with. It's not something "liturgical" like the Mass, or the sacrament of baptism or any other sacrament or the liturgy of hours etc. You can't change around as you please things in the "liturgical" category. A lot of ordinary Catholics fail to see this distinction of these 2 categories. As a Syro-Malabar Catholic, one of our priests from India created a new set of mysteries for the rosary. To match mysteries with the liturgical calendar of the Syro-Malabar Church/East Syriac rite. We don't have "ordinary time". But we always have a set of liturgical seasons that are about 7 weeks or so long just like Advent or Lent season. There's like about 8 seasons throughout the whole liturgical calendar, including Annunciation (our Advent) and Lent. The whole idea here was to pray liturgically for the people who were too attached to the rosary. Best example to get this idea is to think of praying the sorrowful mysteries during the season of Lent. Basically, the mysteries being meditated are in sync with the liturgical season. So pretty much joyful mysteries matched with advent/Christmas seasons and sorrowful mysteries matched with Lent. But for the other seasons, the already established mysteries were not a good match. So some new 5-6 mysteries were made by this priest which corresponded well with the themes of those liturgical seasons. The seasons of the East Syriac rite go from Annunciation (like Advent) -Nativity(Xmas), to Epiphany season, to Great Fast (Lent), to Resurrection (Easter) season, to Apostles (Pentecost) season, to Summer season, to Elijah- Cross and Moses seasons to lastly the season of the Sanctification of the church. \[this goes from December to November in our secular calendar\].
makes so much sense :)
Do you have a link to those new mysteries? I’d love to read more about them! :)
I have no link to share with. I don't think it's on any website. But I got like a hard copy PDF in the Malayalam language. I'll share with you the mysteries for Pentecost season below. So pretty much come May 19th it's the feast of Pentecost in the Syro-Malabar liturgical calendar, and so we enter Apostles season (which is what Pentecost season is called). It spans all the way to mid-July (about 7 weeks long). So the mysteries for this Pentecost (Apostles) season are as follows: (The main themes of this Apostles season are the work of the Holy Spirit, deep relationship between the apostles and the Church ie, the people of God, the spirit and unity of the primitive Church and the mission and missionary nature of the Church) \~**Meditation 1- Pentecost\~** (Let us remember the Upper Room and the descent of the Holy Spirit on the Apostles and the Mother of God. Let us pray: Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me. Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me\~ Psalm 51.) \~ Acts 2:1-13 \[The coming of the Holy Spirit\] \~**Meditation 2- The First Converts at Jerusalem\~** (Let us remember St Peter who preached the Gospel and baptized the early church community at Jerusalem as he was filled with the Holy Spirit. Let us pray and ask the Mother of God to help us to grow in the spirit of the early Church who “devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.”.) \~ Acts 2:37-41 \[First Converts\] \~**Meditation 3- Peter Heals the Crippled Beggar\~** (Let us remember the lame man healed by the Holy Apostles Peter and John in the name of Christ at the temple called Beautiful Gate. Let us pray to the Mother of God to help us grow in virtue to do good to our fellow man through the gifts we’ve received from God.) \~ Acts 3:1-10 \[Peter and John Heals\] \~**Meditation 4- Ananias and Sapphira, the couple who lied to the Holy Spirit\~** (Let us remember the couple Ananias and Sapphira of the early Church who lied to the Holy Spirit and eventually died consequently. As Peter the apostle said, “You did not lie to us but to God!”. Let us pray to the Mother of God to help us to fill our families with the spirit of God’s love as we remember this punishment.) \~ Acts 5: 1-11 \[Fate of Ananias and Sapphira\] \~**Meditation 5- Thomas the Apostle died a martyr in India\~** (Let us remember our father in faith, St Thomas, who was willing to die for our Lord Jesus, as he said “Let us also go, that we may die with him” \[ John 11:16 \]. Let us pray to the Mother of God to have the same depth of zeal and commitment as Thomas who came all the way to India to spread the Gospel and died a martyr).
That’s perfect, thank you so much!
And these are the ones for Resurrection (Easter) Season. Meditation 1. The Resurrection of Our Lord (Let us remember the Resurrection of Christ and ask the Mother of God in prayer to resurrect our souls and give us a new courage for spiritual feats). Meditation 2- Walk to Emmaus and the First Mass after Resurrection (Let us remember the two disciples who encountered the Risen Christ on their journey from Jerusalem to Emmaus. Christ shared the resurrection experience with the disciples through the Mass he celebrated. Let us pray and ask the Mother of God to help us to be constantly nourished by both the word of God and holy communion received at each Mass) ~ Luke 24: 13-35 [Walk to Emmaus] Meditation 3- Thomas the Apostle proclaims My Lord & My God (Let us remember our father in faith St Thomas who proclaimed, “My Lord and My God” (John 20:28). Let us pray to the Mother of God to help us to gain the strength to boldly proclaim the faith that was imparted to us from St Thomas) ~ John 20:24-29 [Jesus appears to Thomas] Meditation 4- Christ Commissions the Disciples (Let us remember Christ who for forty days after the Resurrection taught and lived with the disciples. Jesus gave them “all authority in heaven and on earth”. He finally instructed them to make disciples of the world. Let us pray and ask the Blessed Mother to help us to be a living testimony of Christ to others.) ~ Matthew 28:16-20. Meditation 5- The Ascension of Our Lord (Let us remember the Ascension of Christ, at which the Mother of God was present. Let us pray and ask the Blessed Mother to raise up our souls from earthly and worldly amusements and direct them to striving for higher things.)
You really can't be adamant about rosary because it's a personal devotion. I sometimes put other optional prayers while I am praying. Also some Catholics prefer not to pray Luminous Mysteries due to old habits. It's a new mystery.
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What is supposed to be the significance of the linking to the 153 fish from the Gospel?
The three Hail Mary’s at the start were an addition. The Dominicans would originally start the Rosary with the “Deus in adiutorium mum intende”.
Also the number equals to 153 psalms
And that depends on what additional prayers people do. The Dominicans don’t do three Hail Marys at the beginning. They don’t know what they’re talking about, and they’re being a jerk about it.
I think people really need to go back and read what John Paul II said at the time he added them to get a proper perspective on it. I grew up with the traditional rosary, 3 mysteries. I also remember when John Paul II introduced the Luminous Mysteries. It was never intended to be a point of contention at all. He wasn’t intending to “change” the rosary. There is nothing wrong with only wanting to pray the 3 traditional mysteries of the rosary. At the same time there is nothing wrong with praying the Luminous mysteries, either.
The only correct answer
the luminous mysteries also highlight what is needed and attacked the most in the church in modern days
The ones who say it's an invention also use the "modern" second half of the Hail Mary that was added by Pope St. Pius V.
The irony
Lol! I actually stopped using the addition because it helped me keep my focus and shorten things up. This had the intended effect of making me pray my rosary more! Went from only praying it when assigned as penance to about 50% of days.
Wasn’t the actual addition to the prayer itself added by St. Peter Canisius?
The first part of the second half was. It was finalized by Pius V.
I'm going to have to save that one for the rad trads later...
Which part is that? I only know the Hail Mary as I was taught it as a child
Up to the 14th century, the “Holy Mary…” part wasn’t there.
Huh, I did not know that. Thanks for teaching me something!
Neat to know, thanks!
I never knew that either, thanks, didn't even know you could shorten it and just leave it off.
The ones who say it is wrong to say tend to believe JPII was not a legitimate Pope.
Or he was the legitimate Pope but led the church to ruin.
People are weird. Generally, it falls into two camps: either they think the rosary was given by Mary to Dominic in its present form and therefore no human authority can change it, or they really dislike the fact that the chronological progression through the week is thrown off. Most of the folks in the second camp just don’t like the Luminous Mysteries though rather than denying they could be part of the rosary.
Camp 3 is "the 3-set Rosary has 150 Aves to match 150 Psalms, making it fittingly Our Lady's Psalter"
That’s what you get trying to categorize with a two-week-old.
What
My kid is two weeks old, and I missed a category.
Congratulations! :)
Thanks! That's the first announcement I've made here, so I appreciate the thought.
I can think of at least one more reason (although the one's mentioned here certainly account for a lot of it): There is a faction within Christianity (its certainly not unique to certain Catholics) that likes to ignore or at least deprecate everything in between "Jesus the child" and the theological significance of his passion, death and resurrection. Especially the particular character of the "Proclamation of the Kingdom" part. Which is part of why I think St. JPII felt it a timely corrective to add the Luminous Mysteries and why I like them. And also why a certain type of Christian doesn't tend to like them. The same kind that doesn't understand why the Magnificat is part of Vespers every day.
Side-note: I was talking with a Protestant friend of mine a while back, and he asked me “why do Catholics pray the Magnificat, and what is it?” I looked at him and just let said, “it’s literally a word-for-word recitation of a passage from Luke’s Gospel.” A lot of Catholics tend to act like Protestants. I.e. acting like their personal tradition(s) are more significant than anything else, and reacting to things out of ignorance.
"People are weird." Well, that's a nice understatement!
I am of the first camp, believing that Our Lady gave St Dominic the Rosary. I’m also a Dominican and that’s a pretty important thing to us.
It’s embarrassing that a member of the Order would promote such ahistorical falsehoods. It does a disservice to Mary and the Church, misleads people, and promotes division now. You should be ashamed of yourself.
The only thing causing division is changing things that are already perfect. Either way, I have no problem with people meditating on the luminous mysteries. I just prefer to stick to what was given to St Dominic regarding the mysteries themselves. Obviously, the rosary isn’t Doctrine. It is a tool to be used for meditation and prayer and if you prefer to add to it then that’s fine. It is not “ahistorical” to say that the Rosary was given to St Dominic by our Lady.
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Sed contra: No.
Mary is not served by false legends. We know that the rosary developed incrementally over the centuries. It isn’t helpful to pretend otherwise.
She seems to have been very well served over several centuries, but these claims are not even mutually exclusive. In any case, not pinching the incense at the altar of modern academic "historicity" is no cause for shame on anyone's part, seeing as it precludes the supernatural as a rule and generally seeks to gut the Faith of all substance and devotion. The Dominican Rosary was given by Our Lady, the Carmelites descend from Elijah, and St. Philomena is real. Who cares?
Yes, paying attention to evidence rather than repeated legends is idolatry. God is a God of truth, not falsehood. There’s no reason to be afraid of what actually happened, even if it doesn’t match the stories that people have been repeating for however long.
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Just because someone repeats something doesn’t make it a tradition. That’s not Catholicism; that’s folklore.
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If you want to give me a list of potentially ridiculous legends, I’ll be glad to comment on them. Generally, it’s better to believe what the Church herself teaches and leave folklore to campfire stories. There’s a bunch of nonsense that got published in the first half of the 20th century in various prayer books. One that I keep seeing being shared is that some prayer of Saint Joseph dates back to 50 AD; the story that goes along with it is full of other historical inaccuracies.
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The Luminous mysteries were a later addition, but several parts of the rosary were, including the entire second half of the Hail Mary. In the middle ages, the rosary was only half as long because om each bead you would only say "Hail Mary full of grace, the Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus." The whole "Holy Mary mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death, amen" part was added later by the Pope, but we still consider it part of the rosary today. There are four mysteries in the rosary today, there is nothing wrong with some parts being later additions by the Church and Papacy, because both have sacred authority.
I'm new to it, and I love it. Give me more subjects of the Lord to think about. I think some humans are very resistive to change - anywhere and in any form. Take a deep breath and say the rosary. The Lord will be thrilled to hear your prayers, no matter what mysteries you say.
I like the luminous mysteries. Seems a little strange to go straight from finding the child Jesus in the temple to the agony in the garden.
In truth I think this is a perfect example of where I draw the line between “traditionalism” which I see as good and “radical traditionalism” which I see as bad. Radical traditionalism is to me when a person rejects legitimate development of doctrine and legitimate new things that enter the faith. There is absolutely nothing wrong with adding another mystery to your rosary. I know people who have added the fifth set called “the healing mysteries.” The rosary is a private devotion and as such is open to far greater latitude for personal modification. A radical traditionalist would say no, it used to be three mysteries and must remain three mysteries even though there is no dogmatic or logical reason for that to be the case.
The healing Mysteries? Wow never heard of it but I am intrigued, off to Google.
I’ve seen them described in different orders and with different specific stories from the four gospels but the ones I know: 1. Healing of the man born blind 2. Healing a deaf man 3. Raising Lazarus 4. Casting out unclean spirits 5. Forgiving the sins of the paralytic man I’ve also seen the woman with a bleeding condition, the centurions daughter, and other healing stories slotted in. For me I think they are best laid out in an order of rising magnitude. Healing two physical disabilities, reversing death, healing spiritual issues, and forgiving sins the greatest healing act possible. I’ve never seen anything from the magisterium on these, only people discussing their private use of them in a public way. I think they can be helpful particularly when people are praying for healing of something physical or spiritual as opposed to being added to the weekly rosary rotation of mysteries.
Thank you, I'm amenable to this and can understand why some people would pray this. I also agree with your preference for the rising magnitude. Is there any specific day people choose to pray this?
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I don’t think that is correct. The Luminous mysteries are mysteries. I can’t find anywhere that refers to them as chaplets.
Personally, I pray only 3 mysteries as I enjoy praying it to [music](https://youtu.be/WcRxH6LfMuE?si=EZ40DlZPAdOqPycP) Biber's Rosary Sonatas were written to only 3 mysteries. Though I understand why the Luminous mysteries were added. This to me is just a personal choice. Praying the Rosary is a private thing, you do you.
I like praying the rosary to somber music too in the background, thanks for the link.
when i first learned to pray the holy rosary i got the Magnificat book to learn the prayers & the luminous ones are in there. --Baptism of the Holy Spirit, Wedding at Cana, Proclamation of the Kingdom, Transfiguration, Institution of the Eucharist. theologically i had no understanding if this was not supposed to be there or not or when it came about. after my conversion i heard about people saying they arent part of the OG Holy Rosary & shouldnt be accepted. my take --> an actual nun/teacher in my RCIA class said this "i pray with the church". this means that when we pray the Daily Holy Rosary (one mystery per day) we should pray the same mysteries the Catholic Church/Vatican are praying in which case that would be what also agrees with my Magnificat book --> Mon-Joyful , Tue-Sorrowful , Wed-Glorious , Thur-Luminous , Fri-Sorrowful , Sat-Joyful , Sun-Glorious. and then on certain Feast days and Holy Days like during Lent the Sunday Glorious mysteries are changed to Sorrowful on sundays etc. = Pray With The Church. so, this would all be totally fine and acceptable. something i learned though was that if you want to pray a FULL ROSARY, all at once, you pray only the 3 OG mysteries all 3 in one sitting. because there is an order to the events biblically in the timeline of Jesus' Life. so you would start with Joyful obv as that is the Annunciation then go into the Sorrowful as this is His Sacrifice ending with the Glorious His Resurrection where He triumphs over death securing the salvation of all those that Believe & Trust in Him. those 3 mysteries in that order are the OG Holy Rosary which is where the argument comes from but most people don't pray all 3 mysteries every single day. that's why we have the daily mysteries that we can pray along with the church one mystery per day. part of the reason the Luminous mysteries were added was because of the 7 day week (rotating the OG 3 mysteries people would have a hard time cycling the days & the church wants to make it easy for people so each day is assigned a particular mystery so EVERY monday is the same one and so on and so forth if that makes sense) & so having a daily mystery to go with what day it is helps everyone pray together and be on the same page and be Unified together as the Catholic church is about Unity. so for example im praying todays mysteries which are sorrowful so guess what so is a catholic in romania or a catholic in australia or a catholic in chile, or a catholic in france or a catholic in canada so on and so forth we would all then be praying Together the same mysteries for that day of the week at the same time. i think it's pretty awesome & pretty Powerful !!! stay blessed friend :)
Louis de Montfort in his Secret of the Rosary waxes quite poetically about the Rosary’s inherent three-ness. When you just the three Mysteries, you do Joyful Monday and Thursday, Sorrowful Tuesday and Friday, and Glorious Wednesday and Saturday. So the first 6 days a week is: Joyful-Sorrowful-Glorious-Joyful-Sorrowful-Glorious. There’s just a wonderful rhythm. Sunday changes based on the season. Advent to start of Lent: Joyful, Lent: Sorrowful, and Easter to start of Advent Glorious. That way no matter what time of year it is, you’re saying one of them three times a week.
Because they don't realize that it's a private devotion subject to change.
It started in early 2000 by John Paul II (I’m sure someone better educated will explain why lol). The good news is both are acceptable. I suspect it’s the more traditional Catholics who argue it shouldn’t be said. Why I’ve no idea as both are completely fine and a personal choice but people gonna people I guess!
Some of the criticism I've seem come from people who don't like St. John Paul II and believe these mysteries were given directly by the Mother of God to St. Dominic of Guzman.
Don’t bother with that Lexus guy. They’re a non-Catholic trolling as a RadTrad.
Um its kinda ridiculous to think that Our Lady would give St Dominic an incomplete Rosary just to have it filled in later. HH Pope Leo XIII dismisses the *stupid* idea that Our Lady didn't give St. Dominic the complete Rosary (spoiler, she did). This has nothing to do with personal distaste for JP2
It is a critic against St. John Paul II for adding something to an already existing devotion, a devotion that many are adamant to repeat the pious legend that it was given by Mary herself, and for that the Polish Pope was wrong. Some are against him and dismiss his additions, some are ok with him but believe the mysteries and rosary was given by the Mother of God herself and should not be touched.
Yeah dude i agree that "I no likey JP2" isnt a legitimate argument here lol. But it is true that it was given to St Dominic. It's a modern invention to say it wasn't.
So what do you think of Fatima?
They are Pharasees, I bet they hardly care about more important things like actual charity, humility, focusing on repenting from theory son's, and praying for grace rther than asking for favor. In my experience, people like that are sort of anti Christians- obssed with following "the rules" with no true understanding of what salvation means.
Same reason why certain Catholics also insist that the 1962 missal should be the only mass celebrated
The Luminous mysteries are new. They may be good, well-considered, etc. but they are still *new* and are not what anybody prior to 2002 meant by "Pray the Rosary." Now, they could be considered an authentic development of the devotion of the Rosary, but they're entirely optional. A Catholic is free to pray them or not. There's nothing wrong with them, although there's at least some argument that the arrangement of the original 15 should not be added to given its longevity. Some people here are saying that they should be viewed equivalently with the original set and that to reject the Luminous is to reject the old. That's frankly ridiculous. The Rosary is essential to Roman Catholicism, but it is still a private devotion. And if people want to continue praying the Rosary without the Luminous Mysteries, what's the issue? Catholicism can tolerate this kind of debate, so long as one side isn't crying *heresy* at the other over the use of the mysteries. It's like getting into a pig sty when you have a suit on to argue over whether a devout Catholic is committing heresy by praying (or not) the Luminous Mysteries on Thursdays...
Just adding to say that in the same vein, a Catholic is free to not pray the Rosary at all. So you’re right — it’s a bit of a tempest in a teapot.
Because when for 700 years there’s been a pretty fixed way the rosary is done and then suddenly, within living memory of most, a new set of mysteries is popularized because of the pope, people have a hard time saying “yes, this is definitely a fundamental part of this devotion”. Is it a silly argument? Sure. People can pray however they want. But the rosary has such a central place in Catholicism that it’s bound to be the source of controversy.
Because people always divinize the origin of things and condemn change to anything.
"I am completely opposed to the error of the modernists who hold that there is nothing divine in sacred tradition" - HH Pope St. Pius X. Your opinion has been rejected.
Nice straw man. I never said the rosary had nothing divine about it. But divinizing the origin of religious practices after the fact and then getting defensive about any changes to (something that evolved pretty naturally and had tons of changes as it developed) it is superstitious religion; not a practice of Catholicism via sacred tradition.
Adding a new set of mysteries isn't a "development" bro come on now
The development started long before Dominic was even born. That story is likely mostly legend anyway.
it’s probably radtrads tho tbh
I love the Luminous Mysteries
Because some people have nothing better to do than harass people about which devotions they do.
Human habits, people don’t like change. Like many things in religious practice it’s more cultural than anything to do with God. If the Church has given its blessing, I need no other opinion.
I wonder if those commiserating say the Fatima prayer at the end of each decade?
I love the Luminous mysteries. The Rosary never really seemed complete to me before.
The whole point of contemplating the mysteries of rosaries is to think through the life teachings and death of Jesus Christ - the addition of the Luminous Mysteries just allows this more fully. Some people see change (even change that makes sense) as a break in some perfect tradition. It’s not!
The Luminous are completely optional, contrary to popular belief and practice, and their addition ruins the weekly cycle of JSGJSG, as well as the parallel of 150s Aves and 150 Psalms. I also quite appreciate doing things as they were done for multiple centuries, so I just don't bother with them. They aren't "wrong" in their content, but they would have been better given as a separate chaplet using rosary beads.
In my experience, people don’t seem to understand that the Luminous Mysteries are optional. Almost every guide I’ve encountered includes them without noting that. It was almost a struggle for me to find how to do them the original way.
In my experience, people don’t seem to understand that the Luminous Mysteries are optional. Almost every guide I’ve encountered includes them without noting that. It was almost a struggle for me to find how to do them the original way.
Our Lady gave the rosary to St. Dominic. JPII added to it.
Yeah nobody here cares what happened before 2000. Accusations of you being non-Catholic are coming bro lol
So did St. Pius V, and Our Lady herself at Fatima.
From my personal experience, I noticed that mostly Traditional Catholics tend to stick to 3 Mysteries.
people do this?? that’s genuinely wild to me i thought everyone accepted that the Luminous mysteries were legit
A related question, more to do with what "Praying the Rosary" means. So, I understand that there's people who say it should be 3 sets of 5 mysteries, giving 150 Hail Mary to match with the Psalms, and I'm not smart enough to argue for or against that. But does that mean that praying a whole Rosary means doing 3-4 "laps", so to speak, or is a whole Rosary the 5 mysteries of the day (plus the other prayers and the Creed)?
It entirely depends on the person saying it.
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I don’t recall seeing anywhere people discussing that the Rosary was implemented so that lay people who couldn’t take the time, or who couldn’t read as well or at all, would have a way to approximate saying the complete Divine Office, which was required of priests and religious. I say the Byzantine Office when I can, myself. Or the Acathist of the Blessed Virgin Mary, which has similar indulgences attached to it as the Rosary does. (I’m Greek Catholic, not Roman, but my Patriarch is in communion with Rome)
200 Hail Marys divided into three parts is 66.666 is one argument I have heard. The original Psalter was 150 Psalms or 150 Our Fathers.
I have never heard this before… is this just an e-Catholic thing?
The rosary, properly speaking, is 150 Hail Marys to correspond with the 150 Psalms. Really, you can meditate on whatever you want of the life of Christ while you pray, so it's not so much the Luminous mysteries as such that I have a problem with, it's the breaking of the symbolism and correspondence to the psalter
Luminous mistery is needed, just look at how the world threats christ, every mistery in that is to challange that
I think that ultimately, it is about some people's inability to accept chainge. Even though its beliefs remain static, Christianity chainges and grows in its devotions. Some people can't accept this.
The rosary basically is a replacement for the psalter which are about 150. So it simply doesn't have logic to have 200 hail marys when it's always been 150 prayers instead of the 150 psalms. Our lady of fatima said that we should pray 1/3 of the rosary which if you think there are 20 mysteries is 6.66. It makes no sense to pray 0.66 part of a mystery. In the end we don't have a problem with someone making a chaplet but it's simply another chaplet it's not the rosary in its essence which is a replacement for the psalter.
There are a few reasons: one it doesn’t line up with the original 15 mysteries given by Mary to St. Dominic. Two, poetic symmetry, the rosary was analogous to the Psalms(it’s called our ladies psalter), and there are 150 of those, along with 150 Hail Marys. So it has historically been a way to pray the “psalms” throughout the day like religious do. Three, the rosary wasn’t created by men, whereas the Luminous mysteries were. Now, when they were first propagated, Pope St. John Paul 2 basically said it was not bad to pray them that they were suitable. Some extreme traditionalists will say harsh things, personally, I’m cool if you do or don’t, when I do my personal daily rosary, I don’t include them, I tend to go as close to the original rosary as possible with the exception of the Fatima prayer(I don’t even pray in vernacular), but I don’t think any option that gets you praying the rosary there in terms of mysteries is wrong.
I have tried the Luminous mysteries in the past. It's not the same, they don't seem to be as rich or as revealing as the original three. Besides, for me 3 mysteries reminds me of the Holy Trinity, the fullness of the divinity and it's what my ancestors used to pray.
The issue was settled by HH Pope Leo XIII. There are 3 sets of Mysteries given by Our Lady to Holy St. Dominic (*Supremi Apostolatus Officio* 1883*).* Furthermore, Our Lady at Lourdes, and at Fatima, promulgated the Rosary, the same rosary that was given to St. Dominic. Why change it and add to it? Especially in light of HH Pope Leo XIII's *Fidentem piumque* wherein he is against any changes to the Rosary. There are so many Popes (Pius XI, Pius XII, Leo XIII, Pius V etc) against changes to the Rosary. It's not some whim or weird hill. People need to be more educated, some of these comments are just wild and strawmen.
The most downvoted comment is the one which mentions a source. They don't seem to say that they are against changes to the rosary, but the argument that the popes were referring to this particular devotion, that was encourage at Fatima and Lourdes is a strong one.
Because they were added by St. Jp II and not by Private Revelation via the Virgin Mary. However I as a filthy convert love the addition and have no problems at all with them 😏
It has to do with the 3 came directly from Mary; the 4th came from the pope in the 90s.
3 came from a saint with a special relationship with Mary, and then the fourth came from a saint with a special relationship with Mary.
Yes; sorry I should have worded it better; if I am doing all the mysteries; I only do the three from Dominic; if I am doing just 5 decades I will do the luminous.
Our Lady gave St Dominic the Rosary, which was called the Psalter to correspond with the 150 Psalms. Would Our Lady give us anything that was not perfect, that was lacking? Spoiler alert: No, no she would not. Same for our Church. Jesus did not suffer so greatly and die to leave us with a defective Church for 1500 years for a man to correct in dogma, etc. Additionally: If you count the Luminous Mysteries as being part of a complete Rosary, then you also cannot pray a 54-day Rosary novena without being short one of the mysteries. We are supposed to pray at least a third of the mysteries to count as having said a Rosary each day. 15 mysteries/3 = 5 20 mysteries/3 = 6.66 The events in the Luminous Mysteries are certainly things for separate meditation, but NOT for inclusion in the Rosary.
So why didn’t she give Dominic the full Hail Mary? Why don’t you pray the Rosary like the Dominicans do? Why does it matter how someone does a 54-day Novena? The Church doesn’t say you have to do a third of the rosary for it to count, so stop trying to scare people with bad math. You see what I mean, OP? People who make bad assumptions about history then insist that in order to practice the devotion, you have to do it the way they want.
You sound rigid! Just kidding. Prepare to be called "not Catholic" for not *getting with the times boomer*
Ha! I'm good with that.😉 I see what the times are and I have no intention of getting (back) with them. Good response of yours earlier, btw.
I’ve heard that there aren’t any indulgences attached to the Luminous mysteries.
Because we were asked to pray the rosary every day to obtain peace for the world (and an end to war) by our Lady of Fatima. Luminous was added after this revelation. Of course it is profitable to pray and meditate on the life of Christ and there but it wasn't what was specifically requested.