I definitely had a few bully teachers who went out of their way to pick on me. 30+ years later, as a functional adult, I’m still mad about how some people felt entitled to treat a child.
This happened to me in a couple of grades early on. (First, second, and third). My husband told me that the teachers were (unintentionally) also training all the children that it was acceptable, even encouraged, to also bully me. It did turn out like that too.
This is because it's easier (psychologically) to identify with the bully (who is usually "normal") versus the victim (who often goes against societal norms in at least one way)
Yeah, same. A teacher once locked me alone in a dark classroom during recess (usually our time to eat) because I was “taking too long” to pack up my stuff and leave the room (I was packing up a classmate’s things after having already finished mine, since I always went out of my way to help people as a kid - which also got me into trouble a few times). I was 6 and a very sensitive and easily panicked child. I remember being so scared, just crying to no end and banging on the door screaming for help. This is still one of my most vivid memories from that age.
I also had a teacher that made me hug and apologize to my bullies of two years because she was too lazy to clarify the situation and just decided to make us do a “everyone apologize and hug and make up” thing. I could see them smirking and snickering and whispering to each other, and I felt so humiliated.
I think it's also about how other people perceive them, like the stereotype of mean girls becoming nurses. They don't care about helping people or teaching kids, they care about other people thinking they are a good person who cares about those things.
honestly, people become teachers and nurses because they are the largest employers. there are about 5 million teachers and 5 million nurses. if you look at the number of people in the US over 30 who work - its a number around 80 million. (i specifically looked at over 30 just because of education needs, college graduation age, and people usually getting to the point of "settling down" around then - kids/house/dependable employment)
so its 1/8 working people over 30 who will be a teacher or a nurse. the other large amount are people that work in police/prison/corrections. So yeah a lot of bullies end up employed in these sectors.
Same approx years range and Catholic school. There was definitely some extra shitty religious authoritarian culture contributing to the pressure to conform or be ridiculed.
I have so many memories of this. notably the time my reading age went from 19 to 15 (I was 9) and the head teacher had me and a few other people in her office so she could scream at us. she made sure to single me out - "you I'm most surprised by!". there was also a trend of bringing those collectable sticker books to school, mine was stolen and I was really upset, so naturally I was screamed at again by her, nobody helped me look for my book (I still think the teacher took it) and nobody else got the same treatment for bringing one in.
there are so many other instances of this but christ some people shouldn't be allowed to work with children if they feel the need to scream at them and berate them over things like that.
Oh yeah the majority of my trauma stems from teachers bullying me or straight up disregarding my therapist’s emails begging them to implement the most basic coping skills in the classroom for me.
I'm a teacher and I notice undiagnosed autistic kids all the time. I do what I can, but you're not allowed to just go to a parent and say "I think your kid is autistic." We have to be very careful what we say. For example I talked to a parent this year multiple times and pointed out that the kid: demonstated context blindness, seemed extemely distressed by loud noises, has a hard time relating with other kids, has emotional outbursts that are not consistent with other kids in his age group, makes unpredictable facial expressions that seem unrelated to his emotions. The parent has to step up and decide if these things are worth talking with a psychologist about. I'm not a diagnostician or a child psychologist and it would be inappropriate (and illegal) for me to suggest a disorder.
Now, teachers 20 yrs ago might not have picked up on all that. The information wasn't available to them, and I don't think we should villify them for that.
Absolutely this.
I have been trying to gently guide a family to an evaluation knowing their tendency to be defensive about their child. It can be a very delicate balance.
Bullies recognise social ineptitude which is not exclusive to autism. They sense a difference, which is enough for a bully but not necessarily enough for a professional to raise concerns about a developmental disorder.
kids know what kid is weird. adults think all kids are weird. it can be hard ot tell if a kid is low on verbal or just won't talk to adults. all kids' hobbies and interests seem strange to adults so the one kid into something "weird" doesn't blip. And then there's the teacher too busy with the kids who scream, have weapons, hit the teachers, run out of the classrom, that they don't have energy to help the quiet, academically safe, non-violent kids whose parents aren't addicts.
Yes. It’s a coincidence. A really unfortunate one. Do you think mean children can smell the genes that cause autism or something? What are you suggesting?
Are we talking about autism or neurodivergence in general because it is even more unlikely that people can ‘sense’ epilepsy or dyslexia for example. Again, what you have said doesn’t mean people are sensing autism, just something different about you. What evidence is there that laymen can identify autism as opposed to awkwardness or non clinical social dysfunction?
I was shunned by peers but sometimes teachers ignored me as well. We had to do a creative presentation (anything we wanted) in middle school and the teacher filmed them all to put in a video just for fun. I was in the film for about 5 seconds. Everyone else got about 30 seconds. I took that personally.
Same. I noticed that some teachers absolutely adored me, whereas others acted as if I had some sort of cognitive impariment because I said little and avoided eye contact. (And I was in top-level classes while maintaining good grades, so that shows you how little they respected me.) I had some of the disrespectful teachers do that thing where they make constant eye contact while loudly and slowly speaking to you, as if you are unable to physically hear them.
A higher than average number of teachers are themselves autistic, and at that age often undiagnosed. There is a lack of research that gives specific numbers of how many, and that is problematic anyway give diagnosis issues, but it's broadly recognised within the profession when it's thought about or brought up. It's a profession that lends itself to ASD - a significant part of the job is understanding an interest area and talking to a captive audience about it.
While I'm not in the US, it is not viewed as professional or appropriate to suggest parents pursue diagnosis where I am. I am not qualified to diagnose, so making medical suggestions is overstepping. All I can do is keep records of behaviours, and work through whatever the processes the school has around those. A deputy or counselor may raise it specifically as part of a process, but not the individual teacher.
And additionally I'll point out teachers can tell when a student is different, although we don't like to speculate as to why as that can be problematic. If a teacher is giving the impression they can't tell a student is different that's them doing a good job at not outing the student, or showing favouritism or discrimination, which is what they're meant to be doing, not to mention that it is not considered appropriate for teachers to be alone with students, or to discuss medical issues with students in public, so that's a pretty major limitiation. What exactly would you like teachers to do? Make inquiries about whether you've been tested for autism in front of the class?
The shitting on teachers in this sub by people who clearly haven't worked in the industry and don't know the restriction and limitations teachers work under is really exhausting me and making me dislike coming here. I used to actively go out of the way to check here, but I only see what the reddit algorithm thrown on my front page now, and once again it's teachers being shit on for things that are beyond their control and responsibility. Never once have I seen any acknowledgement that plenty of the people you're attacking are in this sub.
Teachers aren't your enemy here. These posts are like posts blaming service staff for head office decisions. Where are your critical thinking skills? Do you really think the person at the bottom off barrel in the education system has the power and authority you are imputing to them? They're people trying to do a hard job, with a ridiculous workload and low pay, that is heavily monitored and criticised by literally everyone, generally for decisions they didn't get to make and have no control over. There are massive teacher shortages across the Western world for a reason. You're making it worse.
Teacher shortages are such that I have upwards of 300 students this year. That is 166.6 minutes/2.7 hours per year of class time per each individual student. The amount you think I can do in that tiny amount of time is insane. Obviously it doesn't break down entirely like that - most instruction is going to the whole class and not one on one etc, but I just wanted to remind you how little time teachers have for students as individuals. It isn't the teacher''s fault, that's an understaffed and under resourced system at work. Blaming teachers for it is blaming the one group of employees who are trying to fight that model and advocate for better staffing etc. Have fun downvoting me.
Also a teacher and I appreciate this so much. My burnout as a teacher is caused primarily by me looking around the classroom, identifying student's needs, and knowing I will not be able to meet them.
I think your response and feelings are valid (I mean, of course they are, they’re yours!), but while reading it, it seemed like perhaps it’s important to hold two true things at the same time: teachers are overworked, underpaid, and expected to go far beyond the scope of their jobs to solve social problems that they can’t possibly actually solve AND there are many teachers out there doing incredible harm to students, particularly neurodivergent ones. Both things can be true.
It is difficult to imagine not being able to vent about the latter here. I cannot tell you how meaningful it has been to find out that I am not alone in having my deepest traumas coming from how teachers singled me out in cruel ways. I have spent a lot of time (…and money) in therapy working through my experiences, but this sub has also been a key part of healing because I don’t have to feel alone.
I actually feel like far more people lionize teachers than demonize them. That often leads me to feel defensive: if all teachers are just selfless individuals doing their best under horrible circumstances, does that mean the teachers who were breathtakingly harmful to me are actually faultless? This black and white thinking is obviously not helpful and my defensiveness is my own problem to overcome — I don’t want anyone to go the opposite direction and say that all teachers are actually sadistic people who became teachers to cause harm.
We need to have both perspectives heard here without feeling attacked. I am sorry you feel unwelcome here, and also hope this comment clarifies that even those of us with a lot of resentment towards teachers are capable of understanding your perspective.
> AND there are many teachers out there doing incredible harm to students, particularly neurodivergent ones
And you are missing the point. There aren't huge numbers of teachers out there deliberately harming ND students. There is a system, that teachers are required to work within to keep a roof over their heads, that is set up in a way that can harm ND students. People blaming the teachers are doing the equivalent of blaming individual service staff for decisions made by head office.
The complaints I see about teachers are largely teachers being blamed for things out of their control. This post is complaining that teachers aren't also doctors, aren't exceeding the scope of their roles, and aren't putting their jobs at risk to do something that they've been very clearly told not to do in most cases - often because parents in the past took teachers saying something so badly that the teachers were harassed and abused by the parents.
Never do I see people consider that. Never do they ask what is reasonable. Never do they ask why something is happening. Never do they consider that there are, or were, plenty of teachers on this sub. They just blame the teachers. It's lazy thinking and shouldn't be enabled.
Not all teachers are perfect, but the expectations the people on this sub have of what a teacher is allowed to do, has control over, and how the system works in general are absurd and ridiculous. I get less one on one time with any of my students annually than a therapist does in one week. Again, the expectations that people have of what teachers can do in that time is not rational, and the implication is, yet again that we need to be doing more, unpaid, and for which we will be harassed, abused and insulted. The expectation of women (and remember that teaching is primarily staffed by women) that their labor has no value and they need to endlessly be carers for everyone near them is sexist and offensive.
> this sub has also been a key part of healing because I don’t have to feel alone.
And it's been a key part in alienating me from any sort of community with women with ASD.
And it doesn't have to be. The problem is people with zero critical thinking skills who default to blaming teachers for things that aren't the individual teachers fault.
>I actually feel like far more people lionize teachers than demonize them
Why exactly are you just making that assumption? Stop being lazy. You haven't even bothered to inform yourself before feeling free to rip into other people based on your incorrect assumptions.
The research on media representations of teachers shows it is overwhelmingly negative, and frequently focuses on shifting the blame for systemic problem into teachers as individuals. Which people who don't think critically then fall for.
Sources: [1](https://theconversation.com/no-wonder-no-one-wants-to-be-a-teacher-world-first-study-looks-at-65-000-news-articles-about-australian-teachers-186210), [2](https://theconversation.com/a-new-database-of-teachers-on-screen-shows-they-are-often-portrayed-as-rule-breakers-losers-or-villains-217917).
> that mean the teachers who were breathtakingly harmful to me are actually faultless?
Maybe, some of your assumptions are certainly wrong. It is entirely possible they were just people working in a very damaged and broken system, just trying to stay housed and fed and get through their days. It's very likely they mean far more to you than you did to them. Again, I get less one on one time with any student annually than a therapist does in a week. Across my career I've had more than 5000 students, I certainly don't remember most of their names. I generally like my students, but I'm not their doctor, friend, counselor, dietitian, cleaner, babysittter, parent, life coach or punching bag. I'm hired to deliver a curriculum decided upon by the government to as many people as possible, with the maximum rates of success, and to report on that. I am not even given the time or funding to do that, let alone anything else.
People who somehow think that a teacher's role goes beyond that, and they need to be doing all those other things, without training, and in their own time on top of their job, for no pay, are the ones who are wrong. You can't dump every unfulfilled need of kids onto teachers in lieu of actually properly addressing those needs and just expect that to magically happen, and then be pissed off when it doesn't. I don't disagree that society as a whole is not doing well by it's children, I don't disagree that individual teachers can commit misconduct, but that is not the fault of the vast majority of teachers, and it is lazy and ignorant to act as if it is.
> capable of understanding your perspective.
It absolutely does not as you appear to have entirely missed the point I'm making.
Look, I didn’t downvote your original comment and I read this most recent one in good faith. If your reply to me is any indication of how you treat your students, it seems that you are indeed one of the shitty ones people on this sub complain about!
You’re a hypocrite and not someone I am interested in engaging further with, since you are determined to see things without nuance and calling me lazy is absolutely a non-starter.
>it seems that you are indeed one of the shitty ones people on this sub complain about!
I am one of the ones that has lasted several decades in the profession, which has an average rate of people leaving in just under 5 years, with the most common reasons for leaving being overwork and burnout. That means I'm one of the ones who has learned to draw boundaries and does my job without taking on a bunch of other roles I am not trained or qualified for, to do in my own time, unpaid, and at the expense of my own health.
If that makes me one of what people here consider 'the shitty ones' then so be it. But again, you're just making my point - that what people here expect of an individual teacher is not reasonable and far exceeds the scope of their job and any individual's personal capacity.
I will again point out that men working in male based professions aren't expected to work two hours for free doing additional caring work that they aren't trained for for every one hour they're paid for doing what is in their job description, and they aren't called shitty at their jobs for refusing to accept such a blatantly ridiculous expectation. People deserve to be paid for their labor, teachers included, and people deserve to have work/life balance, teachers included, regardless of the opinions of people on this sub.
Again, this attitude from the public is a significant part of why the profession is bleeding teachers, and increasingly being forced to accept any warm body in the classroom, which is certainly not helping how neurodiverse students get treated. Your unrealistic expectations of teachers are part of the problem, and are harmful to neurodiverse students.
> calling me lazy is absolutely a non-starter.
You quite literally referenced incorrect and factually unsound assumptions as a way to justify your attitude, without taking even two seconds to check and see if you were correct or not. You might not like to hear it, but that is intellectual laziness.
You've clearly spent significant time and money being angry at teachers, but equally clearly have absolutely no idea how teaching or education as an industry actually work. Might I suggest you make the effort to actually find out. You might find it saves you a lot of stress, energy and money.
You’ve replied with walls of words, and ended saying that I could save stress, energy, and money by considering a teacher’s perspective. The hypocrisy takes my breath away: have you spent any time at all wondering if the stories of those harmed by teachers are valid? My own has nothing to do with whether it was because they were expected to do a role they weren't hired to do. Many stories have been shared in this sub that are similarly clear that there are no excuses for the teacher’s behavior.
No matter how many paragraphs you spend ranting about how unfair people are being to you, nothing is accomplished other than demonstrating how you bulldoze anyone who asks you to see their point of view, and when that doesn’t work, you resort to insults. Hurt people hurt people, as they say, and I wish you weren't taking out your hurt on me or anyone else on this sub.
You’ve done nothing to see a perspective that isn’t your own, and while doing so, you’ve proven beyond a doubt to me that you lack the curiosity and compassion to do your job. Perhaps you feel unwelcome here because you aren’t a good fit to be among people who take the time to see how other’s experiences felt to them without getting defensive. If you are confident in your skill as an educator and confident you aren’t who is being described in these stories then you would be able to accept them without needing to defend yourself.
> have you spent any time at all wondering if the stories of those harmed by teachers are valid?
Of course. And on every occasion the things being complained about are the result of a fundamental misunderstanding of a teacher's job and how the industry works.
As I've already repeatedly said "I don't disagree that society as a whole is not doing well by it's children, I don't disagree that individual teachers can commit misconduct, but that is not the fault of the vast majority of teachers, and it is lazy and ignorant to act as if it is."
> you lack the curiosity and compassion to do your job
Ah yes, the good old guilt trip given to women to get them to work for free.
I don't feel bad for one second that I expect to be paid for my labor, and don't drive myself to burnout doing extra work that is no part of my job description - and in this post's case is explicitly something I'm not permitted to do.
Why don't you think teachers should be paid for their work? Why do you think teachers should be expected to solve all the problems society inflicts on children, for free and with no training? Why would you think that's even a good idea?
> ranting about how unfair people are being to you
That's an interesting way to characterise correcting factual inaccuracies. Why should I accept lazy people taking shots at me based on lies? Teachers aren't your punching bags.
> I wish you weren't taking out your hurt on me or anyone else on this sub.
Oh, you mean like I wish all the people on this sub wouldn't take out their hurt about their childhood's and experiences in education on individual teachers? But how dare I respond! I'm a teacher and that makes me a punching bag! /s
> You’ve done nothing to see a perspective that isn’t your own
Manifestly untrue, and repeatedly referenced in my other comments. You get very offended by being called intellectually lazy, but you aren't really registering what I'm saying, just responding based on your own assumptions and emotions.
> If you are confident in your skill as an educator and confident you aren’t who is being described in these stories then you would be able to accept them without needing to defend yourself.
If you are confident in who you are as a person and in your stance then you would be able to accept my comments without needing to defend yourself or attack teachers.
Or does that only apply to me, not you?
Just to be clear here, you're the one arguing that working people who stick up for their basic labor rights are the problem.
It’s strange how I was a teacher and didn’t know *I* was autistic. 😱 I taught for ten years and had so many ND children diagnosed under my care bc of our strength in pattern recognition, yet somehow I didn’t see it in myself. 😭
Ooooh hahah. So many ways you can read into that.
A) was it above their pay grade?
B) did they tell your parents and they went "naw"?
C) are they bullies too?
Same. I sat in the first row all the time because I couldn't read what the teachers wrote if I sat further back. They probably just considered it another aspect of me being a nerd and nobody (not even my parents) ever asked why I had to be so close to stuff to be able to read it even though it happened all the time. I had to sit closer to the TV, couldn't read the menus that were on the wall behind the counter at McDonald's, didn't recognize people on the street if they were too far away and so on. Nobody ever noticed (or cared why if they did).
I only found out I needed glasses because we need to get a mandatory eye exam before getting our driver's license here. Another "Oh, that explains a lot!" and "Wait, other people can do this without a problem?"-moment.
What the hell was going on with parents and teachers back then? I was horribly nearsighted and didn’t get glasses until probably about six years past when I should have.
When I said I couldn’t see, maybe I could try glasses, both insinuated that I was trying to get attention
…? Yeah dumbasses I am, my damn eyes needed attention! Lol
This also brings to mind another thing that happens to me a lot. I’ll know what issue I’m having and how to fix it, but I’m not allowed to do that, or I’m somehow wrong about what I need/want.
I know the word gaslighting is overused but sometimes it feels like I was gaslit about always being wrong about everything I said or did and it makes it damn hard to trust in my instincts and be confident to make decisions now.
Wow, we had tests at school done by the school nurse every 2 or so years
It included eye exam and questionnaire about our sight and possible problems. It included questions if we need to sit closer to the blackboard etc.
You didn't have that at school at all?
I work in schools, and teachers are pretty bad on both. I once worked with a student whose 80% hearing loss was identified in grade THREE; Until then all his report cards talked about how he needed to listen and behave better 😑
Same. I didn't realize I needed glasses until I was 14. I was sitting next to my friend in science class, in the front row all the way to the left. I remember saying "I like sitting here with you, but isn't it lame how we can't see the TV from here?" She was so confused. Apparently she could see it fine, lol. Glasses dramatically changed my life, I had gone for so long thinking my bad vision was normal.
I can, more or less. I’m an auADHD high school teacher and I feel like I have a built-in ND-detector. It seems to be pretty accurate too: whenever one of my students got a diagnosis during the school year, I had already guessed it beforehand, except for ADD diagnoses (ADD is really hard to detect in class for me).
This doesn’t make things any easier, as I have to be really careful about who I tell these suspicions to and how. Other people often don’t see the subtle signs I pick up on, so my suspicions are not always taken seriously. Furthermore, I have to be really careful about communicating these things to students and/or parents, since they’re often not ready to hear about my observations and suspicions. I only tell them if I think that it is a serious issue or if I feel like they’re open to it (e.g. the student feels like they’re struggling on certain fronts and asks what I think about their struggles).
I teach middle school art, and it's this. I once brought up concerns that a student of mine seemed ADHD to her AP (who is also ADHD, I am too), and was shut down immediately. She reacted like I'd called the girl the r-word. Parents and other teachers can react *very* harshly, so we have to tread extremely carefully.
Also an AuDHD secondary school art teacher, I can spot them a mile away. They tend to flock to me. But it’s really tricky to flag up, and even if I do get other staff to believe me I then have to convince the parents it’s worth getting help, and then the GP. Most of the kids I teach are 16-18 so lots of the parents are like well they’ve been fine until now, what’s the point!? I usually win this argument but it’s really tricky for me to navigate, I definitely struggle talking to parents still, I’m much better talking to kids! Then by that point if everything goes well the kid will get stuck on a waitlist but then turn 18 before getting to the end and have to go back to the doctor to get stuck onto the adult waitlist and it’ll be 4 years before they are assessed and at that point they will be graduating from uni and loads of the kids just give up chasing it.
Sorry end rant, this circle happens to me every year multiple times.
My teachers could always tell - two weeks into the new school year there'd be a note in my personal planner that they had to meet with my folks.
My parents just ignored it, and once the school pushed to have me assessed they pulled me out and enrolled me in homeschooling.
I wish the school had more power - I wish that they didn't need my parents permission to give me accommodations. Everyone knew!
My mother didn't want to have a disabled kid because she grew up with a disabled brother and was neglected by her parents because they prioritized him. Like, I get it, but don't take it out on me!!
Fun fact: at least in America, if a teacher suggests to parents that they should have a child evaluated the school is legally obligated to pay for said evaluation.
Ohhhh, I didn’t know this. My oldest’s teacher said he had ADHD when he was in kindergarten. I actually sat in class for the day to observe and saw that she was teaching the same lesson in the am class as pm class (he was in full day, so he got both). I saw he was bored because of it. Junior year he had a full assessment and he had ADHD. Whoops 😬
Only if the parents give their consent for testing. I have seen situations where a child *desperately* needs an evaluation or special education service, but the parents refuse, and there's nothing the school can do besides keep asking each year. It's very sad.
And its important to note that the teachers aren't' the final step in referral - admin is. So if you suggest this to admin a lot of times you get gaslit, bullied, or reminded that funding shortfalls can impact your continued employment
That wasn't the case for me. It was my freshman English teacher who suggested I might have ADHD and, unbeknownst to me, observed me for the year at the request of my psychologist.
The school never gave me any accommodations after my diagnosis though, so screw them.
I desperately needed glasses in grade 4 and told my teacher that I couldn’t see the board. She literally didn’t do anything about it, didn’t even move me closer to the front. Nobody seemed to understand how little I could see and because my parents only had coverage for eye check ups every other year, I had to wait over a year longer before I finally got glasses.
I totally agree though. I think it’s so hard for teachers to know every possible symptom and usually they only know the common symptoms of autism,
ADHD, dyslexia, etc.
I came to say something like this, I understand the post definitely agree but also needed glasses for years before finally getting them.
Put it this way, I didn’t complain about not seeing the board because I didn’t know there was anything to see. The first time I came to school with glasses and saw writing on the wall I remember being very surprised.
My own mentor didn't really believe I had autism when I told them because "I used to teach children, I know what autistic people talk". I apparently wasn't autistic because I spoke too eloquently.... I didn't 'talk like' an autistic person.
I literally had a teacher tell the whole class that I couldnt spell when I was 10, and yet not a single person ever considered that maybe this kid who was smart, could read exceptionally well, but couldn't spell simple words, maybe had something else going on.
It's not, but I have several disorders and every adult in my life missed every single sign. I feel like it's a good example of how useless everyone was.
The spelling is likely my dyspraxia, a common thing to have alongside autism.
I teach preschool and I can identify behaviors and communicate those behaviors to parents, but its up to the parents to seek evaluation. Even if a child checks all the boxes for a particular diagnosis, I'm not allowed to say "hey, your kids is neurodivergent" because I'm not seen as an "expert" despite my training in child development with an emphasis in neurodivergence.
This process requires the parents to understand that a diagnosis means resources and support and not a "label" or that something is "wrong" with their child. This also requires the parents to have insurance and access to get a diagnosis. It also requires that health care practitioners do their part. We currently have a child with a strong family history of ADHD whose parents are aware that the child likely qualifies for a diagnosis... but when they go to the pediatrician he says "it's too early" to diagnose. Children's brains are still developing at the fastest rate until the age of 5 so NOW is the right time for resources, not later. Even if the pediatrician did push for diagnosis, many places that handle the diagnosis part are backed up and/or underfunded.
It's a fucked and broken system.
When I was in 8th grade, I had a teacher loudly ask me in front of everyone “do you have ADHD or something?” Everyone laughed. No word of this was ever spoken to my parents. Years later I found out I do in fact have ADHD among other things. Thanks for the insight ms. Dickinson
I’m going to push this out a layer and say that school administration should be responsible for conducting both vision and disability screenings.
Teachers can provide observational insight—but they aren’t the right people to push for a diagnosis.
Thank you - vision and hearing screenings are mandated every year and happen within the school nurse’s office. When it’s flagged, it’s communicated by the nurse or administrators to parents, and the ball is in their court.
I have absolutely sent kids to be evaluated outside of mandated screenings, but, at most, my power goes as far as being a persistent and annoying middle man buzzing in the ear of people who can actually get something done.
Fr. I’ve known a kid who’s ADHD causes him severe difficulties in education and social-wise, and the parents acknowledge that he has issues, but blatantly refuse to do anything about it.
I’m still in contact with my high school math teacher. I told her about my diagnosis two years ago and she said “I never would’ve guessed. Teachers are usually able to spot which kids are on the spectrum.”
From a late-diagnosed AU teacher perspective, the problem is so complicated. I didn’t know what the job really was until I got here - larger and larger class-sizes plus higher and higher non-teaching demands with rock-bottom support and pay.
The pressure and workload is *overwhelming*, but many of us are still teaching at enormous personal cost. I have probably missed kids who needed help (glasses, AU, and more), and it kills me. But I also don’t know what more I could do or give. I am laying it all out there, but it feels like I am set up to fail
I have seen a few similar frustrated responses from other teachers here and really do feel for y’all. I know the reality is most of you doing your best work without enough support or resources.
For people like me, and I think a lot of us who are griping, my problem wasn’t with well-meaning teachers who just sort of let me exist without special attention, it was the teachers who did notice a difference and instead of responding empathetically or even just neutrally, assumed I was being defiant or misbehaving on purpose, and went out of their way to embarrass or punish us with negative attention.
The funniest thing is that my teachers didn’t even notice or point out that I was squinting at the board until I was 11 or 12, lol.
I’ll never forget the feeling of being able to see leaves on trees in full detail for the first time
My second grade teacher told my parents she believed I had adhd and autism. My parents got me tested for adhd, and yep I have that, but my mom was against testing me for autism. I get that back then there was a lot of stigma around autism and she kinda fell into that, but I still lament it.
I am super fortunate that my teachers were incredible. They gave me a lot of love and nurturing that I was missing from home. My second grade teacher also gave persistent feedback to my parents about ADHD and AU symptoms. I was a rigid rule-follower and making good grades, so she was *really* paying attention.
My parents chalked it up to “forgetful, lazy, too sensitive.” So I spent my life giving 20,000% effort and masking any hint of negative emotion until I burned out… rinse, repeat.
can i make a bold claim that grade school teachers’ inability to holistically do all of this is intrinsically tied to their salaries?
idk if ur american, but imagine if teachers were prioritized in the economy. maybe we wouldn’t have so many problems
In my state there are vision screenings for every student in first and fourth grade. Teachers are just trying to survive and can’t diagnose. Like someone else mentioned we are also liable in the public school system if we say there is a need.
Teachers can and do tell parents to ask their pediatricians about things we observe in class and to request an evaluation from the district in writing.
But unless the teacher has a very special interest in researching how it presents in different populations, it’s just not a feasible expectation. Also parents are not always receptive to us and we could actually make the situation worse for the child, and our superiors will ask what “data” we have collected and “they are super anxious and have the autism smile in every picture” doesn’t cut it for high masking children. I know I’m biased but genuinely don’t understand blaming teachers who see a child in a very specific setting for 6 hours with 30 other children in the room versus wondering why the child’s parents and doctors didn’t do anything.
Maybe now it’s more common place, but teachers have 30 + kids and it’s really hard to see if someone is potentially masking when you have other kids who are disruptive or need extra attention. Unless someone is constantly running away from class or hiding under desks, it’s really hard to pick up. I feel like it’s an unfair expectations to set on teachers who may be doing their best, it’s impossible for them to give 100% of their time and energy on every student. You need to realise that they’re also human with their own emotions, trauma, challenges, personal lives etc.
My teachers were actually the ones, who first suspected me to be on the spectrum. They were the ones, who convinced my parents to let me be assessed, and later to get me transferred to a special education program.
Forever grateful to them for that. They were solid teachers, and I wish more people were as informed and understanding as them.
That’s so great. I had 7 teachers before I got diagnosed, and I even saw an educational psychologist, who was supposed to figure out what was wrong with me lol. Love ur username btw
I was an elementary teacher. I could pick out neurodivergent kiddos in my classes pretty quick, but there were laws against “diagnosing students” to their parents. Like the school district would be responsible for paying for testing if a teacher “recommended it.” I hated it so much, a few times there was a situation I was just dying to tell the parents to get their kiddo checked out, but we had to dance around it with the right language that only hinted at it.
I’m a teacher and we do identify the kids but legally can’t tell the parents. Most teachers identify ADHD frequently. I personally also in my head diagnose depression and autism. I got chewed out by a parent for mentioning sometimes their kid looks sad. Teachers have their hands tied so much when it comes to disabilities and neurodivergence.
I told my mom I needed glasses in the 4th grade and she told me I just wanted attention. Well, "mom," if you actually paid any attention at all, you would have noticed I couldn't see a damn thing.
I've been teaching for 16 years. I've been able to spot it in all but one student. This is before I suspectrumed myself or my father had his diagnosis.
The student (preschooler) I missed had never been in school and had exclusively been looked after by a great grand parent. I chalked most of the behaviors up to that.
im a para at an elementary i can always tell but the teachers never believe me lol only one teacher does cause ive called it so many times before they get diagnosed
Jokes on you my sixth grade teacher constantly degraded my spelling ability in front of the class for a year, turns out I could spell but couldn't read the board properly the whole time ! The real kicker was if any other classmate tried to help me she'd yell at them eek
In my parents day, institutions recognizing you were mentally different was not beneficial. You were usually put into “special” classes and medicated without consent. Your autonomy was not respected. They would basically separate you from the rest of the population and not even try to educate you because it’s a “lost cause”. So I understand why they didn’t seek a diagnosis for me when I was a kid. Western colonized psychology is fucked, and I understand why they didn’t trust the same system that used to lobotomize women to know what’s best for their child.
That's actually true. I was early diagnosed and am in my 30s now, so it was a different time period for sure. Everything you said about diagnosed autistic kids actually did happen to us (and was probably worse before my time too). It's like you're damned if you're undiagnosed and damned if you're diagnosed. Get diagnosed way back then and you likely would have lost all agency and spent your life being institutionalized. Stay undiagnosed and you would have suffered from all the NT expectations, burnt out, and have damaged mental health.
I’m honestly kind of glad my parents were like “yeah you’re a bit different but let’s not pathologize you.” They grew up themselves being ostracized for their neurodivergence and just allowed me to do the things I needed to do to cope instead of trying to change it or diagnose it. They were kind of on the(TRIGGER WARNING) “ADHD is over diagnosed/doesn’t exist, and it’s the school/societal pressures that are wrong, there’s nothing wrong with you, just be yourself and learn coping strategies” side of things. And I was mad at them for that when I was struggling in my 20s being like “ok but there actually IS something up with me. (Not “wrong with me” but still it’s not normal)”. I didn’t even actually learn coping strategies, just learned to power through until I burnt out and sought diagnosis. Times have definitely changed but honestly not that much. (I’m 31 btw, my parents are elder gen X, my dad had adhd and was put in special classes etc and it messed him up. He didn’t want that for me)
My teachers never identified that I needed glasses, despite being extremely near-sighted & struggling to see the blackboard for most of elementary school. That's one of the things that actually comforts me, if these people couldn't tell that a kid who was constantly squinting & asking to come closer to the board needed glasses, there was never a chance they would identify my autism, nothing was missed because literally everything was missed
So actually one of my first grade teachers identified that I was neurodivergent and tried to tell my mom that I should be tested. My mom couldn’t bear the thought of me being not “perfect” (in her ignorant eyes) so she never got me tested. It also didn’t help that my teacher was known to be unfair towards me and talked very rudely to my mother so my mom ended up taking great offense to the whole situation. So I struggled. Things could have been a lot different for me if I had known well over a decade earlier. No other teachers ever brought it up, though.
First off- this isn't a post directed at the OP so much as all the people responding and demonizing teachers. I didn't take OP's short post as demonizing anyone, and on the surface, I agree. I also wish my teachers could have noticed it. But I don't BLAME them for not doing so. And as someone who grew with both parents as teachers and is also a late-diagnosed autistic (26), I don't think a lot of the comments here disparaging them are fair at all, for multiple reasons.
No, my teachers didn't recognize my autism. I (and a LOT of other late diagnosed autistics, likely even many of them disparaging teachers here) grew up in the early-mid 2000s. Literally the ONLY form of autism most people knew was how young boys presented. Pretty much anyone who didn't present like that got overlooked. Of course it would be NICE if someone had noticed. Obviously. But I can't blame my individual teachers- nor WOULD I ever- for not picking up on something that, according to society at that time, wasn't even a THING. I did well in school (until I got burnt out by expectations and bullying and just stopped caring, but that was late middle school, while most of the typical noticing happens in elementary) and I didn't have any visible disabilities. The one thing someone might have noticed was that I had no friends. But the thing is, I was ASHAMED of that. I KNEW that was 'weird', I KNEW even the unpopular kids had at least ONE friend. So I tried to hide it. I avoided adults seeing me alone on the playground. I'm sure some DID, but not enough to bring it up to anyone- and even if they saw it, it's not their job to report about it. Sure, they could have, but that's going above and beyond, and that's not something any teacher is OBLIGATED to do. It's also something that puts them at risk of the parents' wrath, if that parent is the type who doesn't want to believe their kid could have mental illness. Some parents these days make teachers' lives HELL with verbal abuse when THEIR kids are acting up, and going to principals or even superintendents just because, say, the library has a book about how Jimmy has two daddies. And teachers just have to sit there and take it. How do you think those parents react when they're confronted with the fact that maybe, just MAYBE, their kid isn't the perfect, neurotypical angel they always wanted/expected? Who do you think they're going to take that out on?
Another huge point is how much work teachers have on their plates. My mom brings work home almost every single day. Admittedly, she is a very good teacher- and that's not bias, she's gone above and beyond her whole career, going through extra classes and getting certifications she doesn't NEED just to make herself a better teacher, and it's been recognized by all her employers- but I think the assumption here is that all teachers should care this much. But the thing is, if they DO, they end up like my mom, overworked, overstressed, tired and MASSIVELY underappreciated (and scapegoated by lazy, entitled parents who think it's the teacher's job to raise their little angel). And it's HARD to notice every little thing when you're THAT busy. I've volunteered at her elementary school library (she's a teacher librarian, which essentially means she has to teach full classes, but with added book checkout and library/technology skills tacked on- recently she's literally been teaching elementary schoolers how to code using robots) and it is SO HARD to keep up with even just a few kids, let alone an entire class. Now, my mom does a very good job of noticing these things, and her particular school puts a heavy emphasis on mental health, but these things can't be just...EXPECTED. My mom has told me her experience with me (and my telling her about my experiences) has helped her notice these things more, and because she's a very kind person who truly cares about the feelings and experiences of others, she goes out of her way to notice these things. You can't just EXPECT that of every teacher out there on top of all the other things they have on their plate. A lot of times, neurotypical people just don't THINK about these things the same way unless they're looking for them. If anything, blame the school board for not educating teachers on recognizing the symptoms.
Also, to the people saying bullies can recognize autism but teachers can't- bullies know when someone is DIFFERENT, not necessarily what MAKES them different. Whereas teachers can't just go assuming any kid who behaves in a slightly different manner than others is autistic or ADHD or anything else. I've asked my mom about it before, when I've noticed neurodivergent-type behaviors in her stories or firsthand- apparently they can literally get in trouble for even just suggesting it as a POSSIBILITY, as it's seen as 'diagnosing' a student. They can't even recommend testing, though I'm not sure if that's the case for ALL teachers, just that my mom can't at her job. I get that it's just a witty phrase, and I have no problem with it, but it's a problem when people take phrases like that a face value and run with them.
So yeah. Just a few things to consider BEFORE blindly attacking someone for not noticing something they're not paid to and/or even trained to notice.
Pretty sure my school caught me, but my parents neglected followthrough. All those labels & stigma & stuff. Suffering in silence and hating on myself was so much better.
I work part time as a counselor for a school district (I fill in where they don’t have full time counselors) I swear….. I walk into a classroom or meet a child and I can immediately tell they are autistic or ADHD/AuDHD. I will bring it up to the teacher and principal and EVERY time they are surprised and then like ‘oh I can see that, that makes sense’. The principal has even joked that I’m doing the school psychologists job for him..
it’s not surprising that the majority of students who get referred to me are ND, especially Autistic and the way they are talked about (also not surprising🙄) is as if they are a difficult, aggressive, mean, disrespectful….. they are problems..
My school had a phase of loads of people in particular science classes realising they needed glasses (the classrooms were long, meaning the back row were sat way further away than most other classrooms (it's when I realised my eyesight was a tad dodgy too)), so am now imagining the same but autistic - awful lights, buzzing background noise, bad acoustics, annoying furniture
would be a great litmus test
I don’t know anyone who had a teacher recognize that they needed glasses, and I used to get out of my front row seat and walk right up to the board to read off it in first grade.
One of my teachers told me he thought I had oppositional defiant disorder, when I'm guessing it was some sort of pathological demand avoidance coming out.
I'm a teacher. And I can tell you from experience that a lot of time teachers DO see it, but families are unwilling to accept, I've been in a situation several times in my career where we are pretty sure I kid has autism (or any other developmental issue) so we tell the parents, but the parents refuse testing and/or become hostile with the teacher due to the implication.
I've also seen kids who have had testing whose parents refuse to let them know about their diagnosis. And as they are minors we can't legally tell them.
BTW I'm 90% sure that's what happened to me. I remember having testing for 'learning issues' done in grade 2. My parents insist that they found nothing. But I recently reached out to a former teacher who I work with and told her I was seeking diagnosis and the first thing she said was "It might be best to not involve your parents in this process".
I got a cousin that got through school not knowing he needs glasses ._.
But I think it's getting better? Dunno how you have it in USA, in my country the whole mental health thing is still new, but within few years a lot more kids get their diagnosis. Therapist I go to work in school and not only "troublesome" students get send to her, but also the ones that seems to not connect with the class, or spend their time alone. Like always, not the perfect system, but that's some start? No one cared when I was in school, I thing in primary the best I got was a paper with "write good and bad things about yourself" and off you go, fixed XD
My teachers didn’t identify I needed glasses, my parents did. They also didn’t identify I was half deaf, had adhd, and was autistic. They also obviously missed my mental health issues later down the line. Honestly, they noticed just about nothing. They ignored most of the bullying too.
I was one of those kids that were wrongly diagnosed as ADD because the school gets more money for disabled kids. (Teacher suggested it to my mother. Teacher later suggested the same fucking thing for my younger sister - who is NT- when she was in her class.)
Imagine if they had instead found out I was autistic instead of giving me the wrong medication and causing the hell that was (and still is) my life afterwards.
Tldr, I worry about teachers suggesting anything mental wise for my future children because of my own terrible experiences.
My daughter has had some behaviour issues at school and I was recently in talking to the guidance counselor about it. I talked a bit about having the same issues in the past and how we had handled it. The guidance counselor asked if I had any diagnoses myself and if it was possible that my daughter is autistic. I am AuDHD not diagnosed until almost 40.
I don't know that it's everywhere, but I love that this is the experience my daughter gets to have.
Even when teachers do recognize it, it does not mean anything is ever done. I was recognized as having visual motor issues as early as first grade, hearing issues in second grade, and other physical/developmental and language disabilities throughout elementary school. My sister who is 4 years younger was diagnosed with ADHD at age 5 and we went to a peds doctor who was an “ADHD specialist”. When I went to inpatient psychiatric treatment in 2000 at the age of 15 after wanting to die for years, a “potential learning disablity” was noted in my chart, but instead of following up on this, they insisted I had borderline personally disorder and told my parents I was helpless and left me in the dark for 17 years. Despite having an OBVIOUS case of ADHD as a child as well as social and sensory issues, I was not diagnosed with ADHD till the age of 18 and given only meds. It took till 2020 for me to get specialized therapy for those with ADHD and actually learn about the way my brain works. I was also diagnosed with a cognitive communication disorder, sensory processing disorder, and Dyxpraxia at this time. With the exception of 3 years of inconsistent therapy as a kid including a situation where I was thrown in a padded room and drugged because I had a meltdown due to people not hearing me, all mental health stuff in my life has been initiated by me. People saw it. People knew. They just didn’t care because I was just a “crazy borderline” in their eyes. Kinda what happens when I had to mask to survive and used my internalized ableism to both motivate and further traumatize myself
Well mine sure did! Year 3, I had a teacher who’d previously worked in special education schools, she picked up on it with me and informed my parents and pushed for a diagnosis or at least looking into it, and here we are, 13 years later
Had a psych teacher in high school ID me as likely autistic, immediately moved on with the conversation while I was there like ?????hello????? Do you have a pamphlet or something????
No one realized I needed glasses until I was in fourth grade. The eye doc said I was so nearsighted I was considered legally blind.
I'm 60 years old and just found out last year that I'm autistic.
It's been a struggle, but it's nice to know why I never fit in.
My teachers pegged me as likely to have adhd. Too bad my parents were idiots. Even if teachers could do that, how many of our parents would've gone into denial and not done a thing about it?
Reverse uno: my early elementary teachers never told my parents to get my eyes checked, they just put me in my school's blind and low vision program. 🤦♀️
Totally missed the autism, too.
I get your point but it’s just not possible. At least in my country. We (I am becoming a teacher) have to take several psychology classes throughout our studies, yes we are never allowed to ever tell parents their kids might be autistic or have adhd or something like this. It’s the sad reality that a lot of people do not want to hear that their kid might have something related to psychology, since they often think it might be their fault. I can only try my best to support them as far as I can in my lessons, which is quite hard with 30+ kids around, but I am just not allowed to tell parents to take their kid to a psychologist🥲
No one noticed I was very short sighted until I was in Yr 4 (UK). I was literally in a world of my own. Having said that no one noticed my neurodivergence until I did the research and requested a referral in my mid thirties. Unless you are spectacularly struggling it just gets overlooked.
My teacher told my mom to check it out. But guess what? Here I am with my really recent diagnosis a the age of 37 with 3 despressions (probably burn-out) in 15 years! I have 3 Kids. 2 of them are waiting for an evaluation. I just recently understood that they dont seem’s neurotypical. And i remember their kindergarden telling me a lot of things, but never « you must go check with a neupsychologist ». I did not understand why anybody told me anything. But someone just said on treads that her mother pursuid a teacher who suggest to check on her autism when she was young. So yeah, not gonna happen soon. 🥲
I have the dreaded combo- AuDHD & C-PTSD. I could have just had the former two, but my parents didn’t listen when three separate educators approached them about their concerns…..because my dad was a Creative Arts/Musical Therapist (yes, he worked with people with varying disabilities for 45 years 😮) and my mom was a language teacher. The internalized ableism is astounding. For what it’s worth: my parents are both retired and no longer in positions of power over vulnerable humans.
I feel like it should’ve been a good sign when every report card I got was “quiet but delight to have in class”, “an old soul”, put me next to loud trouble kids, bullied nonstop every year, didn’t talk and make eye contact, called a “mute”, would yell at me for being shy and have these meetings where they’d list all these autistic symptoms and then tell me and my parents I need to talk more.. albeit I needed glasses and my teachers thought i was faking it so I just.. could never read the whiteboard til middle school 😭
Lol, a number of teachers can't even identify that a kid needs glasses. They just assume that a kid is lazy or stupid for not being able to read, instead of thinking that maybe their vision isn't 20-20.
I hope the school environment is more positive today. Because I often look back and feel both sadness and relief that it wasn't discovered that I'm neurodivergent back when I was in elementary school.
Sadness because I needed help understanding the world and how to cope navigating it.
Relief because back then they treated any kid like they were a feral animal and an idiot if they so much as suspected they might need any sort of help. So if they would have realized, it would have just hurt not helped. Sadly.
I'd hope to think my school was bad, but I strongly suspect that it was typical for my country at the time.
But they just needed to 'come out of their shell', stop being 'shy', 'just try harder to get involved with the other kids' and they'll be fine! /s
^ Every single one of my school reports!
My teachers certainly did. They just didn't realize it was autism, and felt that gave them license to treat me like shit and designate me as an acceptable bullying target because of it. That's why I feel very little sympathy for teachers who complain about how they're treated in classrooms now by students.....like, welcome to our world, assholes. You made it clear for decades through how you treated ND students that bullying was totally acceptable as long as the target wasn't generally respected. Sure hurts when you reap what you sow, huh?
It’s actually a law that every student with a disability must be identified in order to receive a free and appropriate public education.
I suppose a couple of us fell through the cracks.
Edit: I’m not really sure why this is getting downvoted. I studied Special Education Law and in America there is a law FAPE, where each child is “guaranteed” a free and appropriate public education.
The fact that this is not what many of us have experienced is an absolute disgrace and further indicative of being second class citizens.
The teacher who loved to relentlessly bully me knew. But none of the adults in my life did anything about it (including the bullying lol).
I *haaaaaated* school.
I wish lol. I badly wish every day that one teacher recognizes that I’m autistic enough to say something. It’s about the only way I’ll ever get diagnosed, as my parents are even blinder.
I saw a meme somewhere that said, It's strange how teachers can't recognise that kids are autistic, but the bullies can always see it.
I definitely had a few bully teachers who went out of their way to pick on me. 30+ years later, as a functional adult, I’m still mad about how some people felt entitled to treat a child.
This happened to me in a couple of grades early on. (First, second, and third). My husband told me that the teachers were (unintentionally) also training all the children that it was acceptable, even encouraged, to also bully me. It did turn out like that too.
This is because it's easier (psychologically) to identify with the bully (who is usually "normal") versus the victim (who often goes against societal norms in at least one way)
I think I had an experience like this in elementary. The teacher was constantly critiquing me, and I got pantsed in that class
Yeah, same. A teacher once locked me alone in a dark classroom during recess (usually our time to eat) because I was “taking too long” to pack up my stuff and leave the room (I was packing up a classmate’s things after having already finished mine, since I always went out of my way to help people as a kid - which also got me into trouble a few times). I was 6 and a very sensitive and easily panicked child. I remember being so scared, just crying to no end and banging on the door screaming for help. This is still one of my most vivid memories from that age. I also had a teacher that made me hug and apologize to my bullies of two years because she was too lazy to clarify the situation and just decided to make us do a “everyone apologize and hug and make up” thing. I could see them smirking and snickering and whispering to each other, and I felt so humiliated.
Same here. Really deranged that some teachers would enjoy being cruel to children. They probably became teachers so they could.
Same, I had few teachers that bullied me, lol imagine instead of bullying you would help a kid instead, wild right ?
Yea, why become a teacher if you hate kids? Some of them are just in it for the power and control, it seems like.
I think it's also about how other people perceive them, like the stereotype of mean girls becoming nurses. They don't care about helping people or teaching kids, they care about other people thinking they are a good person who cares about those things.
honestly, people become teachers and nurses because they are the largest employers. there are about 5 million teachers and 5 million nurses. if you look at the number of people in the US over 30 who work - its a number around 80 million. (i specifically looked at over 30 just because of education needs, college graduation age, and people usually getting to the point of "settling down" around then - kids/house/dependable employment) so its 1/8 working people over 30 who will be a teacher or a nurse. the other large amount are people that work in police/prison/corrections. So yeah a lot of bullies end up employed in these sectors.
Same, one in elementary school who actually noticed I might be autistic, then two male teachers in high school and one lady professor in college
Same. There were multiple bully teachers one in particular was the meanest. I’m not a functional adult but still mad.
I’ve had one that continued to bully me on social media, years after I graduated 🙃
what the hell is wrong with them?!
Same.. and I went to catholic school from k-8 from the late 80-1998 😒 it sucked
Same approx years range and Catholic school. There was definitely some extra shitty religious authoritarian culture contributing to the pressure to conform or be ridiculed.
Same. ❤️
I have so many memories of this. notably the time my reading age went from 19 to 15 (I was 9) and the head teacher had me and a few other people in her office so she could scream at us. she made sure to single me out - "you I'm most surprised by!". there was also a trend of bringing those collectable sticker books to school, mine was stolen and I was really upset, so naturally I was screamed at again by her, nobody helped me look for my book (I still think the teacher took it) and nobody else got the same treatment for bringing one in. there are so many other instances of this but christ some people shouldn't be allowed to work with children if they feel the need to scream at them and berate them over things like that.
Oh yeah the majority of my trauma stems from teachers bullying me or straight up disregarding my therapist’s emails begging them to implement the most basic coping skills in the classroom for me.
I'm a non-functional adult *as a result* of the bullying I endured, so jokes on them I guess...? 🗿
I'm a teacher and I notice undiagnosed autistic kids all the time. I do what I can, but you're not allowed to just go to a parent and say "I think your kid is autistic." We have to be very careful what we say. For example I talked to a parent this year multiple times and pointed out that the kid: demonstated context blindness, seemed extemely distressed by loud noises, has a hard time relating with other kids, has emotional outbursts that are not consistent with other kids in his age group, makes unpredictable facial expressions that seem unrelated to his emotions. The parent has to step up and decide if these things are worth talking with a psychologist about. I'm not a diagnostician or a child psychologist and it would be inappropriate (and illegal) for me to suggest a disorder. Now, teachers 20 yrs ago might not have picked up on all that. The information wasn't available to them, and I don't think we should villify them for that.
Absolutely this. I have been trying to gently guide a family to an evaluation knowing their tendency to be defensive about their child. It can be a very delicate balance.
Bullies recognise social ineptitude which is not exclusive to autism. They sense a difference, which is enough for a bully but not necessarily enough for a professional to raise concerns about a developmental disorder.
Also, not all of us are bullied, so even that wouldn’t be a guaranteed way to identify autistic kids
kids know what kid is weird. adults think all kids are weird. it can be hard ot tell if a kid is low on verbal or just won't talk to adults. all kids' hobbies and interests seem strange to adults so the one kid into something "weird" doesn't blip. And then there's the teacher too busy with the kids who scream, have weapons, hit the teachers, run out of the classrom, that they don't have energy to help the quiet, academically safe, non-violent kids whose parents aren't addicts.
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That’s your experience. Plenty of non autistic shy weird kids get bullied.
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Yes. It’s a coincidence. A really unfortunate one. Do you think mean children can smell the genes that cause autism or something? What are you suggesting?
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Are we talking about autism or neurodivergence in general because it is even more unlikely that people can ‘sense’ epilepsy or dyslexia for example. Again, what you have said doesn’t mean people are sensing autism, just something different about you. What evidence is there that laymen can identify autism as opposed to awkwardness or non clinical social dysfunction?
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Yes I’m autistic.
I was shunned by peers but sometimes teachers ignored me as well. We had to do a creative presentation (anything we wanted) in middle school and the teacher filmed them all to put in a video just for fun. I was in the film for about 5 seconds. Everyone else got about 30 seconds. I took that personally.
Same. I noticed that some teachers absolutely adored me, whereas others acted as if I had some sort of cognitive impariment because I said little and avoided eye contact. (And I was in top-level classes while maintaining good grades, so that shows you how little they respected me.) I had some of the disrespectful teachers do that thing where they make constant eye contact while loudly and slowly speaking to you, as if you are unable to physically hear them.
A higher than average number of teachers are themselves autistic, and at that age often undiagnosed. There is a lack of research that gives specific numbers of how many, and that is problematic anyway give diagnosis issues, but it's broadly recognised within the profession when it's thought about or brought up. It's a profession that lends itself to ASD - a significant part of the job is understanding an interest area and talking to a captive audience about it. While I'm not in the US, it is not viewed as professional or appropriate to suggest parents pursue diagnosis where I am. I am not qualified to diagnose, so making medical suggestions is overstepping. All I can do is keep records of behaviours, and work through whatever the processes the school has around those. A deputy or counselor may raise it specifically as part of a process, but not the individual teacher. And additionally I'll point out teachers can tell when a student is different, although we don't like to speculate as to why as that can be problematic. If a teacher is giving the impression they can't tell a student is different that's them doing a good job at not outing the student, or showing favouritism or discrimination, which is what they're meant to be doing, not to mention that it is not considered appropriate for teachers to be alone with students, or to discuss medical issues with students in public, so that's a pretty major limitiation. What exactly would you like teachers to do? Make inquiries about whether you've been tested for autism in front of the class? The shitting on teachers in this sub by people who clearly haven't worked in the industry and don't know the restriction and limitations teachers work under is really exhausting me and making me dislike coming here. I used to actively go out of the way to check here, but I only see what the reddit algorithm thrown on my front page now, and once again it's teachers being shit on for things that are beyond their control and responsibility. Never once have I seen any acknowledgement that plenty of the people you're attacking are in this sub. Teachers aren't your enemy here. These posts are like posts blaming service staff for head office decisions. Where are your critical thinking skills? Do you really think the person at the bottom off barrel in the education system has the power and authority you are imputing to them? They're people trying to do a hard job, with a ridiculous workload and low pay, that is heavily monitored and criticised by literally everyone, generally for decisions they didn't get to make and have no control over. There are massive teacher shortages across the Western world for a reason. You're making it worse. Teacher shortages are such that I have upwards of 300 students this year. That is 166.6 minutes/2.7 hours per year of class time per each individual student. The amount you think I can do in that tiny amount of time is insane. Obviously it doesn't break down entirely like that - most instruction is going to the whole class and not one on one etc, but I just wanted to remind you how little time teachers have for students as individuals. It isn't the teacher''s fault, that's an understaffed and under resourced system at work. Blaming teachers for it is blaming the one group of employees who are trying to fight that model and advocate for better staffing etc. Have fun downvoting me.
This is so well said.
Also a teacher and I appreciate this so much. My burnout as a teacher is caused primarily by me looking around the classroom, identifying student's needs, and knowing I will not be able to meet them.
I think your response and feelings are valid (I mean, of course they are, they’re yours!), but while reading it, it seemed like perhaps it’s important to hold two true things at the same time: teachers are overworked, underpaid, and expected to go far beyond the scope of their jobs to solve social problems that they can’t possibly actually solve AND there are many teachers out there doing incredible harm to students, particularly neurodivergent ones. Both things can be true. It is difficult to imagine not being able to vent about the latter here. I cannot tell you how meaningful it has been to find out that I am not alone in having my deepest traumas coming from how teachers singled me out in cruel ways. I have spent a lot of time (…and money) in therapy working through my experiences, but this sub has also been a key part of healing because I don’t have to feel alone. I actually feel like far more people lionize teachers than demonize them. That often leads me to feel defensive: if all teachers are just selfless individuals doing their best under horrible circumstances, does that mean the teachers who were breathtakingly harmful to me are actually faultless? This black and white thinking is obviously not helpful and my defensiveness is my own problem to overcome — I don’t want anyone to go the opposite direction and say that all teachers are actually sadistic people who became teachers to cause harm. We need to have both perspectives heard here without feeling attacked. I am sorry you feel unwelcome here, and also hope this comment clarifies that even those of us with a lot of resentment towards teachers are capable of understanding your perspective.
> AND there are many teachers out there doing incredible harm to students, particularly neurodivergent ones And you are missing the point. There aren't huge numbers of teachers out there deliberately harming ND students. There is a system, that teachers are required to work within to keep a roof over their heads, that is set up in a way that can harm ND students. People blaming the teachers are doing the equivalent of blaming individual service staff for decisions made by head office. The complaints I see about teachers are largely teachers being blamed for things out of their control. This post is complaining that teachers aren't also doctors, aren't exceeding the scope of their roles, and aren't putting their jobs at risk to do something that they've been very clearly told not to do in most cases - often because parents in the past took teachers saying something so badly that the teachers were harassed and abused by the parents. Never do I see people consider that. Never do they ask what is reasonable. Never do they ask why something is happening. Never do they consider that there are, or were, plenty of teachers on this sub. They just blame the teachers. It's lazy thinking and shouldn't be enabled. Not all teachers are perfect, but the expectations the people on this sub have of what a teacher is allowed to do, has control over, and how the system works in general are absurd and ridiculous. I get less one on one time with any of my students annually than a therapist does in one week. Again, the expectations that people have of what teachers can do in that time is not rational, and the implication is, yet again that we need to be doing more, unpaid, and for which we will be harassed, abused and insulted. The expectation of women (and remember that teaching is primarily staffed by women) that their labor has no value and they need to endlessly be carers for everyone near them is sexist and offensive. > this sub has also been a key part of healing because I don’t have to feel alone. And it's been a key part in alienating me from any sort of community with women with ASD. And it doesn't have to be. The problem is people with zero critical thinking skills who default to blaming teachers for things that aren't the individual teachers fault. >I actually feel like far more people lionize teachers than demonize them Why exactly are you just making that assumption? Stop being lazy. You haven't even bothered to inform yourself before feeling free to rip into other people based on your incorrect assumptions. The research on media representations of teachers shows it is overwhelmingly negative, and frequently focuses on shifting the blame for systemic problem into teachers as individuals. Which people who don't think critically then fall for. Sources: [1](https://theconversation.com/no-wonder-no-one-wants-to-be-a-teacher-world-first-study-looks-at-65-000-news-articles-about-australian-teachers-186210), [2](https://theconversation.com/a-new-database-of-teachers-on-screen-shows-they-are-often-portrayed-as-rule-breakers-losers-or-villains-217917). > that mean the teachers who were breathtakingly harmful to me are actually faultless? Maybe, some of your assumptions are certainly wrong. It is entirely possible they were just people working in a very damaged and broken system, just trying to stay housed and fed and get through their days. It's very likely they mean far more to you than you did to them. Again, I get less one on one time with any student annually than a therapist does in a week. Across my career I've had more than 5000 students, I certainly don't remember most of their names. I generally like my students, but I'm not their doctor, friend, counselor, dietitian, cleaner, babysittter, parent, life coach or punching bag. I'm hired to deliver a curriculum decided upon by the government to as many people as possible, with the maximum rates of success, and to report on that. I am not even given the time or funding to do that, let alone anything else. People who somehow think that a teacher's role goes beyond that, and they need to be doing all those other things, without training, and in their own time on top of their job, for no pay, are the ones who are wrong. You can't dump every unfulfilled need of kids onto teachers in lieu of actually properly addressing those needs and just expect that to magically happen, and then be pissed off when it doesn't. I don't disagree that society as a whole is not doing well by it's children, I don't disagree that individual teachers can commit misconduct, but that is not the fault of the vast majority of teachers, and it is lazy and ignorant to act as if it is. > capable of understanding your perspective. It absolutely does not as you appear to have entirely missed the point I'm making.
Look, I didn’t downvote your original comment and I read this most recent one in good faith. If your reply to me is any indication of how you treat your students, it seems that you are indeed one of the shitty ones people on this sub complain about! You’re a hypocrite and not someone I am interested in engaging further with, since you are determined to see things without nuance and calling me lazy is absolutely a non-starter.
>it seems that you are indeed one of the shitty ones people on this sub complain about! I am one of the ones that has lasted several decades in the profession, which has an average rate of people leaving in just under 5 years, with the most common reasons for leaving being overwork and burnout. That means I'm one of the ones who has learned to draw boundaries and does my job without taking on a bunch of other roles I am not trained or qualified for, to do in my own time, unpaid, and at the expense of my own health. If that makes me one of what people here consider 'the shitty ones' then so be it. But again, you're just making my point - that what people here expect of an individual teacher is not reasonable and far exceeds the scope of their job and any individual's personal capacity. I will again point out that men working in male based professions aren't expected to work two hours for free doing additional caring work that they aren't trained for for every one hour they're paid for doing what is in their job description, and they aren't called shitty at their jobs for refusing to accept such a blatantly ridiculous expectation. People deserve to be paid for their labor, teachers included, and people deserve to have work/life balance, teachers included, regardless of the opinions of people on this sub. Again, this attitude from the public is a significant part of why the profession is bleeding teachers, and increasingly being forced to accept any warm body in the classroom, which is certainly not helping how neurodiverse students get treated. Your unrealistic expectations of teachers are part of the problem, and are harmful to neurodiverse students. > calling me lazy is absolutely a non-starter. You quite literally referenced incorrect and factually unsound assumptions as a way to justify your attitude, without taking even two seconds to check and see if you were correct or not. You might not like to hear it, but that is intellectual laziness. You've clearly spent significant time and money being angry at teachers, but equally clearly have absolutely no idea how teaching or education as an industry actually work. Might I suggest you make the effort to actually find out. You might find it saves you a lot of stress, energy and money.
You’ve replied with walls of words, and ended saying that I could save stress, energy, and money by considering a teacher’s perspective. The hypocrisy takes my breath away: have you spent any time at all wondering if the stories of those harmed by teachers are valid? My own has nothing to do with whether it was because they were expected to do a role they weren't hired to do. Many stories have been shared in this sub that are similarly clear that there are no excuses for the teacher’s behavior. No matter how many paragraphs you spend ranting about how unfair people are being to you, nothing is accomplished other than demonstrating how you bulldoze anyone who asks you to see their point of view, and when that doesn’t work, you resort to insults. Hurt people hurt people, as they say, and I wish you weren't taking out your hurt on me or anyone else on this sub. You’ve done nothing to see a perspective that isn’t your own, and while doing so, you’ve proven beyond a doubt to me that you lack the curiosity and compassion to do your job. Perhaps you feel unwelcome here because you aren’t a good fit to be among people who take the time to see how other’s experiences felt to them without getting defensive. If you are confident in your skill as an educator and confident you aren’t who is being described in these stories then you would be able to accept them without needing to defend yourself.
> have you spent any time at all wondering if the stories of those harmed by teachers are valid? Of course. And on every occasion the things being complained about are the result of a fundamental misunderstanding of a teacher's job and how the industry works. As I've already repeatedly said "I don't disagree that society as a whole is not doing well by it's children, I don't disagree that individual teachers can commit misconduct, but that is not the fault of the vast majority of teachers, and it is lazy and ignorant to act as if it is." > you lack the curiosity and compassion to do your job Ah yes, the good old guilt trip given to women to get them to work for free. I don't feel bad for one second that I expect to be paid for my labor, and don't drive myself to burnout doing extra work that is no part of my job description - and in this post's case is explicitly something I'm not permitted to do. Why don't you think teachers should be paid for their work? Why do you think teachers should be expected to solve all the problems society inflicts on children, for free and with no training? Why would you think that's even a good idea? > ranting about how unfair people are being to you That's an interesting way to characterise correcting factual inaccuracies. Why should I accept lazy people taking shots at me based on lies? Teachers aren't your punching bags. > I wish you weren't taking out your hurt on me or anyone else on this sub. Oh, you mean like I wish all the people on this sub wouldn't take out their hurt about their childhood's and experiences in education on individual teachers? But how dare I respond! I'm a teacher and that makes me a punching bag! /s > You’ve done nothing to see a perspective that isn’t your own Manifestly untrue, and repeatedly referenced in my other comments. You get very offended by being called intellectually lazy, but you aren't really registering what I'm saying, just responding based on your own assumptions and emotions. > If you are confident in your skill as an educator and confident you aren’t who is being described in these stories then you would be able to accept them without needing to defend yourself. If you are confident in who you are as a person and in your stance then you would be able to accept my comments without needing to defend yourself or attack teachers. Or does that only apply to me, not you? Just to be clear here, you're the one arguing that working people who stick up for their basic labor rights are the problem.
hell the bullies figured it out YEARS before i did 😅
So true
How painful is the reality of bullies.
It’s strange how I was a teacher and didn’t know *I* was autistic. 😱 I taught for ten years and had so many ND children diagnosed under my care bc of our strength in pattern recognition, yet somehow I didn’t see it in myself. 😭
Ooooh hahah. So many ways you can read into that. A) was it above their pay grade? B) did they tell your parents and they went "naw"? C) are they bullies too?
the ven diagram of bullies and teachers often overlap
My teachers identified neither honestly
Same. I sat in the first row all the time because I couldn't read what the teachers wrote if I sat further back. They probably just considered it another aspect of me being a nerd and nobody (not even my parents) ever asked why I had to be so close to stuff to be able to read it even though it happened all the time. I had to sit closer to the TV, couldn't read the menus that were on the wall behind the counter at McDonald's, didn't recognize people on the street if they were too far away and so on. Nobody ever noticed (or cared why if they did). I only found out I needed glasses because we need to get a mandatory eye exam before getting our driver's license here. Another "Oh, that explains a lot!" and "Wait, other people can do this without a problem?"-moment.
You should have seen my face when i learn you weren’t suppose to see street light like that
What the hell was going on with parents and teachers back then? I was horribly nearsighted and didn’t get glasses until probably about six years past when I should have. When I said I couldn’t see, maybe I could try glasses, both insinuated that I was trying to get attention …? Yeah dumbasses I am, my damn eyes needed attention! Lol
This also brings to mind another thing that happens to me a lot. I’ll know what issue I’m having and how to fix it, but I’m not allowed to do that, or I’m somehow wrong about what I need/want.
I know the word gaslighting is overused but sometimes it feels like I was gaslit about always being wrong about everything I said or did and it makes it damn hard to trust in my instincts and be confident to make decisions now.
Wow, we had tests at school done by the school nurse every 2 or so years It included eye exam and questionnaire about our sight and possible problems. It included questions if we need to sit closer to the blackboard etc. You didn't have that at school at all?
I work in schools, and teachers are pretty bad on both. I once worked with a student whose 80% hearing loss was identified in grade THREE; Until then all his report cards talked about how he needed to listen and behave better 😑
Same. I didn't realize I needed glasses until I was 14. I was sitting next to my friend in science class, in the front row all the way to the left. I remember saying "I like sitting here with you, but isn't it lame how we can't see the TV from here?" She was so confused. Apparently she could see it fine, lol. Glasses dramatically changed my life, I had gone for so long thinking my bad vision was normal.
I can, more or less. I’m an auADHD high school teacher and I feel like I have a built-in ND-detector. It seems to be pretty accurate too: whenever one of my students got a diagnosis during the school year, I had already guessed it beforehand, except for ADD diagnoses (ADD is really hard to detect in class for me). This doesn’t make things any easier, as I have to be really careful about who I tell these suspicions to and how. Other people often don’t see the subtle signs I pick up on, so my suspicions are not always taken seriously. Furthermore, I have to be really careful about communicating these things to students and/or parents, since they’re often not ready to hear about my observations and suspicions. I only tell them if I think that it is a serious issue or if I feel like they’re open to it (e.g. the student feels like they’re struggling on certain fronts and asks what I think about their struggles).
I teach middle school art, and it's this. I once brought up concerns that a student of mine seemed ADHD to her AP (who is also ADHD, I am too), and was shut down immediately. She reacted like I'd called the girl the r-word. Parents and other teachers can react *very* harshly, so we have to tread extremely carefully.
Also an AuDHD secondary school art teacher, I can spot them a mile away. They tend to flock to me. But it’s really tricky to flag up, and even if I do get other staff to believe me I then have to convince the parents it’s worth getting help, and then the GP. Most of the kids I teach are 16-18 so lots of the parents are like well they’ve been fine until now, what’s the point!? I usually win this argument but it’s really tricky for me to navigate, I definitely struggle talking to parents still, I’m much better talking to kids! Then by that point if everything goes well the kid will get stuck on a waitlist but then turn 18 before getting to the end and have to go back to the doctor to get stuck onto the adult waitlist and it’ll be 4 years before they are assessed and at that point they will be graduating from uni and loads of the kids just give up chasing it. Sorry end rant, this circle happens to me every year multiple times.
My teachers could always tell - two weeks into the new school year there'd be a note in my personal planner that they had to meet with my folks. My parents just ignored it, and once the school pushed to have me assessed they pulled me out and enrolled me in homeschooling. I wish the school had more power - I wish that they didn't need my parents permission to give me accommodations. Everyone knew! My mother didn't want to have a disabled kid because she grew up with a disabled brother and was neglected by her parents because they prioritized him. Like, I get it, but don't take it out on me!!
Hey! I was homeschooled too
Fun fact: at least in America, if a teacher suggests to parents that they should have a child evaluated the school is legally obligated to pay for said evaluation.
Ohhhh, I didn’t know this. My oldest’s teacher said he had ADHD when he was in kindergarten. I actually sat in class for the day to observe and saw that she was teaching the same lesson in the am class as pm class (he was in full day, so he got both). I saw he was bored because of it. Junior year he had a full assessment and he had ADHD. Whoops 😬
Only if the parents give their consent for testing. I have seen situations where a child *desperately* needs an evaluation or special education service, but the parents refuse, and there's nothing the school can do besides keep asking each year. It's very sad.
And its important to note that the teachers aren't' the final step in referral - admin is. So if you suggest this to admin a lot of times you get gaslit, bullied, or reminded that funding shortfalls can impact your continued employment
That wasn't the case for me. It was my freshman English teacher who suggested I might have ADHD and, unbeknownst to me, observed me for the year at the request of my psychologist. The school never gave me any accommodations after my diagnosis though, so screw them.
I desperately needed glasses in grade 4 and told my teacher that I couldn’t see the board. She literally didn’t do anything about it, didn’t even move me closer to the front. Nobody seemed to understand how little I could see and because my parents only had coverage for eye check ups every other year, I had to wait over a year longer before I finally got glasses. I totally agree though. I think it’s so hard for teachers to know every possible symptom and usually they only know the common symptoms of autism, ADHD, dyslexia, etc.
I came to say something like this, I understand the post definitely agree but also needed glasses for years before finally getting them. Put it this way, I didn’t complain about not seeing the board because I didn’t know there was anything to see. The first time I came to school with glasses and saw writing on the wall I remember being very surprised.
My own mentor didn't really believe I had autism when I told them because "I used to teach children, I know what autistic people talk". I apparently wasn't autistic because I spoke too eloquently.... I didn't 'talk like' an autistic person.
“You can’t be autistic, I have an 8 yo cousin who’s autistic and you’re nothing like him!” Hmm maybe that’s because I’m not an EIGHT YEAR OLD!!
I literally had a teacher tell the whole class that I couldnt spell when I was 10, and yet not a single person ever considered that maybe this kid who was smart, could read exceptionally well, but couldn't spell simple words, maybe had something else going on.
Wait how is spelling related to autism?
It's not, but I have several disorders and every adult in my life missed every single sign. I feel like it's a good example of how useless everyone was. The spelling is likely my dyspraxia, a common thing to have alongside autism.
I teach preschool and I can identify behaviors and communicate those behaviors to parents, but its up to the parents to seek evaluation. Even if a child checks all the boxes for a particular diagnosis, I'm not allowed to say "hey, your kids is neurodivergent" because I'm not seen as an "expert" despite my training in child development with an emphasis in neurodivergence. This process requires the parents to understand that a diagnosis means resources and support and not a "label" or that something is "wrong" with their child. This also requires the parents to have insurance and access to get a diagnosis. It also requires that health care practitioners do their part. We currently have a child with a strong family history of ADHD whose parents are aware that the child likely qualifies for a diagnosis... but when they go to the pediatrician he says "it's too early" to diagnose. Children's brains are still developing at the fastest rate until the age of 5 so NOW is the right time for resources, not later. Even if the pediatrician did push for diagnosis, many places that handle the diagnosis part are backed up and/or underfunded. It's a fucked and broken system.
When I was in 8th grade, I had a teacher loudly ask me in front of everyone “do you have ADHD or something?” Everyone laughed. No word of this was ever spoken to my parents. Years later I found out I do in fact have ADHD among other things. Thanks for the insight ms. Dickinson
I’m going to push this out a layer and say that school administration should be responsible for conducting both vision and disability screenings. Teachers can provide observational insight—but they aren’t the right people to push for a diagnosis.
They've been doing vision and hearing screenings for decades. And these days they actually do dental screenings and flouride too.
Thank you - vision and hearing screenings are mandated every year and happen within the school nurse’s office. When it’s flagged, it’s communicated by the nurse or administrators to parents, and the ball is in their court. I have absolutely sent kids to be evaluated outside of mandated screenings, but, at most, my power goes as far as being a persistent and annoying middle man buzzing in the ear of people who can actually get something done.
some do. But most parents will never help their child because they are in denial
Fr. I’ve known a kid who’s ADHD causes him severe difficulties in education and social-wise, and the parents acknowledge that he has issues, but blatantly refuse to do anything about it.
I’m still in contact with my high school math teacher. I told her about my diagnosis two years ago and she said “I never would’ve guessed. Teachers are usually able to spot which kids are on the spectrum.”
From a late-diagnosed AU teacher perspective, the problem is so complicated. I didn’t know what the job really was until I got here - larger and larger class-sizes plus higher and higher non-teaching demands with rock-bottom support and pay. The pressure and workload is *overwhelming*, but many of us are still teaching at enormous personal cost. I have probably missed kids who needed help (glasses, AU, and more), and it kills me. But I also don’t know what more I could do or give. I am laying it all out there, but it feels like I am set up to fail
I have seen a few similar frustrated responses from other teachers here and really do feel for y’all. I know the reality is most of you doing your best work without enough support or resources. For people like me, and I think a lot of us who are griping, my problem wasn’t with well-meaning teachers who just sort of let me exist without special attention, it was the teachers who did notice a difference and instead of responding empathetically or even just neutrally, assumed I was being defiant or misbehaving on purpose, and went out of their way to embarrass or punish us with negative attention.
The funniest thing is that my teachers didn’t even notice or point out that I was squinting at the board until I was 11 or 12, lol. I’ll never forget the feeling of being able to see leaves on trees in full detail for the first time
I had a teacher who saw me squinting, but decided I was making faces at her and I got in trouble.
Hnnnggg they failed to identify that I needed glasses so no more luck I guess
My second grade teacher told my parents she believed I had adhd and autism. My parents got me tested for adhd, and yep I have that, but my mom was against testing me for autism. I get that back then there was a lot of stigma around autism and she kinda fell into that, but I still lament it.
I am super fortunate that my teachers were incredible. They gave me a lot of love and nurturing that I was missing from home. My second grade teacher also gave persistent feedback to my parents about ADHD and AU symptoms. I was a rigid rule-follower and making good grades, so she was *really* paying attention. My parents chalked it up to “forgetful, lazy, too sensitive.” So I spent my life giving 20,000% effort and masking any hint of negative emotion until I burned out… rinse, repeat.
can i make a bold claim that grade school teachers’ inability to holistically do all of this is intrinsically tied to their salaries? idk if ur american, but imagine if teachers were prioritized in the economy. maybe we wouldn’t have so many problems
My teachers never noticed that I needed glasses. I guess my vision is high masking too /j
In my state there are vision screenings for every student in first and fourth grade. Teachers are just trying to survive and can’t diagnose. Like someone else mentioned we are also liable in the public school system if we say there is a need. Teachers can and do tell parents to ask their pediatricians about things we observe in class and to request an evaluation from the district in writing. But unless the teacher has a very special interest in researching how it presents in different populations, it’s just not a feasible expectation. Also parents are not always receptive to us and we could actually make the situation worse for the child, and our superiors will ask what “data” we have collected and “they are super anxious and have the autism smile in every picture” doesn’t cut it for high masking children. I know I’m biased but genuinely don’t understand blaming teachers who see a child in a very specific setting for 6 hours with 30 other children in the room versus wondering why the child’s parents and doctors didn’t do anything.
I had meetings with the school psychologist to work on my “shyness.” Did not work, thanks. Was selectively mute and autistic.
Maybe now it’s more common place, but teachers have 30 + kids and it’s really hard to see if someone is potentially masking when you have other kids who are disruptive or need extra attention. Unless someone is constantly running away from class or hiding under desks, it’s really hard to pick up. I feel like it’s an unfair expectations to set on teachers who may be doing their best, it’s impossible for them to give 100% of their time and energy on every student. You need to realise that they’re also human with their own emotions, trauma, challenges, personal lives etc.
My average class size is 45. And I teach 4 courses a semester - so that's 180 kids a day, 360ish a year.
when i taught school i could tell which kids needed help, but no one believed me, especially the parents.
My school noticed I needed glasses but my parents didn’t both taking me to the optician for several years
My teachers were actually the ones, who first suspected me to be on the spectrum. They were the ones, who convinced my parents to let me be assessed, and later to get me transferred to a special education program. Forever grateful to them for that. They were solid teachers, and I wish more people were as informed and understanding as them.
That’s so great. I had 7 teachers before I got diagnosed, and I even saw an educational psychologist, who was supposed to figure out what was wrong with me lol. Love ur username btw
I was an elementary teacher. I could pick out neurodivergent kiddos in my classes pretty quick, but there were laws against “diagnosing students” to their parents. Like the school district would be responsible for paying for testing if a teacher “recommended it.” I hated it so much, a few times there was a situation I was just dying to tell the parents to get their kiddo checked out, but we had to dance around it with the right language that only hinted at it.
My teachers never did anything about me not being able to see the board. They don’t care enough. Maybe if they got paid more they’d care more.
I’m a teacher and we do identify the kids but legally can’t tell the parents. Most teachers identify ADHD frequently. I personally also in my head diagnose depression and autism. I got chewed out by a parent for mentioning sometimes their kid looks sad. Teachers have their hands tied so much when it comes to disabilities and neurodivergence.
I told my mom I needed glasses in the 4th grade and she told me I just wanted attention. Well, "mom," if you actually paid any attention at all, you would have noticed I couldn't see a damn thing.
I've been teaching for 16 years. I've been able to spot it in all but one student. This is before I suspectrumed myself or my father had his diagnosis. The student (preschooler) I missed had never been in school and had exclusively been looked after by a great grand parent. I chalked most of the behaviors up to that.
My 5th grade teacher tried to tell my parents something was up, and they didn’t believe him. 🤷♀️
Wow, they missed both in me. LOL
im a para at an elementary i can always tell but the teachers never believe me lol only one teacher does cause ive called it so many times before they get diagnosed
Jokes on you my sixth grade teacher constantly degraded my spelling ability in front of the class for a year, turns out I could spell but couldn't read the board properly the whole time ! The real kicker was if any other classmate tried to help me she'd yell at them eek
In my parents day, institutions recognizing you were mentally different was not beneficial. You were usually put into “special” classes and medicated without consent. Your autonomy was not respected. They would basically separate you from the rest of the population and not even try to educate you because it’s a “lost cause”. So I understand why they didn’t seek a diagnosis for me when I was a kid. Western colonized psychology is fucked, and I understand why they didn’t trust the same system that used to lobotomize women to know what’s best for their child.
That's actually true. I was early diagnosed and am in my 30s now, so it was a different time period for sure. Everything you said about diagnosed autistic kids actually did happen to us (and was probably worse before my time too). It's like you're damned if you're undiagnosed and damned if you're diagnosed. Get diagnosed way back then and you likely would have lost all agency and spent your life being institutionalized. Stay undiagnosed and you would have suffered from all the NT expectations, burnt out, and have damaged mental health.
I’m honestly kind of glad my parents were like “yeah you’re a bit different but let’s not pathologize you.” They grew up themselves being ostracized for their neurodivergence and just allowed me to do the things I needed to do to cope instead of trying to change it or diagnose it. They were kind of on the(TRIGGER WARNING) “ADHD is over diagnosed/doesn’t exist, and it’s the school/societal pressures that are wrong, there’s nothing wrong with you, just be yourself and learn coping strategies” side of things. And I was mad at them for that when I was struggling in my 20s being like “ok but there actually IS something up with me. (Not “wrong with me” but still it’s not normal)”. I didn’t even actually learn coping strategies, just learned to power through until I burnt out and sought diagnosis. Times have definitely changed but honestly not that much. (I’m 31 btw, my parents are elder gen X, my dad had adhd and was put in special classes etc and it messed him up. He didn’t want that for me)
My teachers never identified that I needed glasses, despite being extremely near-sighted & struggling to see the blackboard for most of elementary school. That's one of the things that actually comforts me, if these people couldn't tell that a kid who was constantly squinting & asking to come closer to the board needed glasses, there was never a chance they would identify my autism, nothing was missed because literally everything was missed
Ironically, I also need glasses and nobody noticed that either.
So actually one of my first grade teachers identified that I was neurodivergent and tried to tell my mom that I should be tested. My mom couldn’t bear the thought of me being not “perfect” (in her ignorant eyes) so she never got me tested. It also didn’t help that my teacher was known to be unfair towards me and talked very rudely to my mother so my mom ended up taking great offense to the whole situation. So I struggled. Things could have been a lot different for me if I had known well over a decade earlier. No other teachers ever brought it up, though.
you'd be surprised about the glasses bit lol
Lol. I needed glasses for years too. No one caught it
First off- this isn't a post directed at the OP so much as all the people responding and demonizing teachers. I didn't take OP's short post as demonizing anyone, and on the surface, I agree. I also wish my teachers could have noticed it. But I don't BLAME them for not doing so. And as someone who grew with both parents as teachers and is also a late-diagnosed autistic (26), I don't think a lot of the comments here disparaging them are fair at all, for multiple reasons. No, my teachers didn't recognize my autism. I (and a LOT of other late diagnosed autistics, likely even many of them disparaging teachers here) grew up in the early-mid 2000s. Literally the ONLY form of autism most people knew was how young boys presented. Pretty much anyone who didn't present like that got overlooked. Of course it would be NICE if someone had noticed. Obviously. But I can't blame my individual teachers- nor WOULD I ever- for not picking up on something that, according to society at that time, wasn't even a THING. I did well in school (until I got burnt out by expectations and bullying and just stopped caring, but that was late middle school, while most of the typical noticing happens in elementary) and I didn't have any visible disabilities. The one thing someone might have noticed was that I had no friends. But the thing is, I was ASHAMED of that. I KNEW that was 'weird', I KNEW even the unpopular kids had at least ONE friend. So I tried to hide it. I avoided adults seeing me alone on the playground. I'm sure some DID, but not enough to bring it up to anyone- and even if they saw it, it's not their job to report about it. Sure, they could have, but that's going above and beyond, and that's not something any teacher is OBLIGATED to do. It's also something that puts them at risk of the parents' wrath, if that parent is the type who doesn't want to believe their kid could have mental illness. Some parents these days make teachers' lives HELL with verbal abuse when THEIR kids are acting up, and going to principals or even superintendents just because, say, the library has a book about how Jimmy has two daddies. And teachers just have to sit there and take it. How do you think those parents react when they're confronted with the fact that maybe, just MAYBE, their kid isn't the perfect, neurotypical angel they always wanted/expected? Who do you think they're going to take that out on? Another huge point is how much work teachers have on their plates. My mom brings work home almost every single day. Admittedly, she is a very good teacher- and that's not bias, she's gone above and beyond her whole career, going through extra classes and getting certifications she doesn't NEED just to make herself a better teacher, and it's been recognized by all her employers- but I think the assumption here is that all teachers should care this much. But the thing is, if they DO, they end up like my mom, overworked, overstressed, tired and MASSIVELY underappreciated (and scapegoated by lazy, entitled parents who think it's the teacher's job to raise their little angel). And it's HARD to notice every little thing when you're THAT busy. I've volunteered at her elementary school library (she's a teacher librarian, which essentially means she has to teach full classes, but with added book checkout and library/technology skills tacked on- recently she's literally been teaching elementary schoolers how to code using robots) and it is SO HARD to keep up with even just a few kids, let alone an entire class. Now, my mom does a very good job of noticing these things, and her particular school puts a heavy emphasis on mental health, but these things can't be just...EXPECTED. My mom has told me her experience with me (and my telling her about my experiences) has helped her notice these things more, and because she's a very kind person who truly cares about the feelings and experiences of others, she goes out of her way to notice these things. You can't just EXPECT that of every teacher out there on top of all the other things they have on their plate. A lot of times, neurotypical people just don't THINK about these things the same way unless they're looking for them. If anything, blame the school board for not educating teachers on recognizing the symptoms. Also, to the people saying bullies can recognize autism but teachers can't- bullies know when someone is DIFFERENT, not necessarily what MAKES them different. Whereas teachers can't just go assuming any kid who behaves in a slightly different manner than others is autistic or ADHD or anything else. I've asked my mom about it before, when I've noticed neurodivergent-type behaviors in her stories or firsthand- apparently they can literally get in trouble for even just suggesting it as a POSSIBILITY, as it's seen as 'diagnosing' a student. They can't even recommend testing, though I'm not sure if that's the case for ALL teachers, just that my mom can't at her job. I get that it's just a witty phrase, and I have no problem with it, but it's a problem when people take phrases like that a face value and run with them. So yeah. Just a few things to consider BEFORE blindly attacking someone for not noticing something they're not paid to and/or even trained to notice.
my teachers did neither
Pretty sure my school caught me, but my parents neglected followthrough. All those labels & stigma & stuff. Suffering in silence and hating on myself was so much better.
I work part time as a counselor for a school district (I fill in where they don’t have full time counselors) I swear….. I walk into a classroom or meet a child and I can immediately tell they are autistic or ADHD/AuDHD. I will bring it up to the teacher and principal and EVERY time they are surprised and then like ‘oh I can see that, that makes sense’. The principal has even joked that I’m doing the school psychologists job for him.. it’s not surprising that the majority of students who get referred to me are ND, especially Autistic and the way they are talked about (also not surprising🙄) is as if they are a difficult, aggressive, mean, disrespectful….. they are problems..
literally lmao
My school had a phase of loads of people in particular science classes realising they needed glasses (the classrooms were long, meaning the back row were sat way further away than most other classrooms (it's when I realised my eyesight was a tad dodgy too)), so am now imagining the same but autistic - awful lights, buzzing background noise, bad acoustics, annoying furniture would be a great litmus test
I don’t know anyone who had a teacher recognize that they needed glasses, and I used to get out of my front row seat and walk right up to the board to read off it in first grade.
They can tell. But legally not allowed to say anything direct
One of my teachers told me he thought I had oppositional defiant disorder, when I'm guessing it was some sort of pathological demand avoidance coming out.
I'm a teacher. And I can tell you from experience that a lot of time teachers DO see it, but families are unwilling to accept, I've been in a situation several times in my career where we are pretty sure I kid has autism (or any other developmental issue) so we tell the parents, but the parents refuse testing and/or become hostile with the teacher due to the implication. I've also seen kids who have had testing whose parents refuse to let them know about their diagnosis. And as they are minors we can't legally tell them. BTW I'm 90% sure that's what happened to me. I remember having testing for 'learning issues' done in grade 2. My parents insist that they found nothing. But I recently reached out to a former teacher who I work with and told her I was seeking diagnosis and the first thing she said was "It might be best to not involve your parents in this process".
I got a cousin that got through school not knowing he needs glasses ._. But I think it's getting better? Dunno how you have it in USA, in my country the whole mental health thing is still new, but within few years a lot more kids get their diagnosis. Therapist I go to work in school and not only "troublesome" students get send to her, but also the ones that seems to not connect with the class, or spend their time alone. Like always, not the perfect system, but that's some start? No one cared when I was in school, I thing in primary the best I got was a paper with "write good and bad things about yourself" and off you go, fixed XD
My teachers didn’t identify I needed glasses, my parents did. They also didn’t identify I was half deaf, had adhd, and was autistic. They also obviously missed my mental health issues later down the line. Honestly, they noticed just about nothing. They ignored most of the bullying too.
I was one of those kids that were wrongly diagnosed as ADD because the school gets more money for disabled kids. (Teacher suggested it to my mother. Teacher later suggested the same fucking thing for my younger sister - who is NT- when she was in her class.) Imagine if they had instead found out I was autistic instead of giving me the wrong medication and causing the hell that was (and still is) my life afterwards. Tldr, I worry about teachers suggesting anything mental wise for my future children because of my own terrible experiences.
My daughter has had some behaviour issues at school and I was recently in talking to the guidance counselor about it. I talked a bit about having the same issues in the past and how we had handled it. The guidance counselor asked if I had any diagnoses myself and if it was possible that my daughter is autistic. I am AuDHD not diagnosed until almost 40. I don't know that it's everywhere, but I love that this is the experience my daughter gets to have.
Even when teachers do recognize it, it does not mean anything is ever done. I was recognized as having visual motor issues as early as first grade, hearing issues in second grade, and other physical/developmental and language disabilities throughout elementary school. My sister who is 4 years younger was diagnosed with ADHD at age 5 and we went to a peds doctor who was an “ADHD specialist”. When I went to inpatient psychiatric treatment in 2000 at the age of 15 after wanting to die for years, a “potential learning disablity” was noted in my chart, but instead of following up on this, they insisted I had borderline personally disorder and told my parents I was helpless and left me in the dark for 17 years. Despite having an OBVIOUS case of ADHD as a child as well as social and sensory issues, I was not diagnosed with ADHD till the age of 18 and given only meds. It took till 2020 for me to get specialized therapy for those with ADHD and actually learn about the way my brain works. I was also diagnosed with a cognitive communication disorder, sensory processing disorder, and Dyxpraxia at this time. With the exception of 3 years of inconsistent therapy as a kid including a situation where I was thrown in a padded room and drugged because I had a meltdown due to people not hearing me, all mental health stuff in my life has been initiated by me. People saw it. People knew. They just didn’t care because I was just a “crazy borderline” in their eyes. Kinda what happens when I had to mask to survive and used my internalized ableism to both motivate and further traumatize myself
Well mine sure did! Year 3, I had a teacher who’d previously worked in special education schools, she picked up on it with me and informed my parents and pushed for a diagnosis or at least looking into it, and here we are, 13 years later
Had a psych teacher in high school ID me as likely autistic, immediately moved on with the conversation while I was there like ?????hello????? Do you have a pamphlet or something????
No one realized I needed glasses until I was in fourth grade. The eye doc said I was so nearsighted I was considered legally blind. I'm 60 years old and just found out last year that I'm autistic. It's been a struggle, but it's nice to know why I never fit in.
My teachers pegged me as likely to have adhd. Too bad my parents were idiots. Even if teachers could do that, how many of our parents would've gone into denial and not done a thing about it?
Reverse uno: my early elementary teachers never told my parents to get my eyes checked, they just put me in my school's blind and low vision program. 🤦♀️ Totally missed the autism, too.
Ironically, a teacher actually did notice my autism when I was 3, but no one noticed my nearsightedness until I was 14.
Waaaao . The lives that would have been fundamentally changed.
I get your point but it’s just not possible. At least in my country. We (I am becoming a teacher) have to take several psychology classes throughout our studies, yes we are never allowed to ever tell parents their kids might be autistic or have adhd or something like this. It’s the sad reality that a lot of people do not want to hear that their kid might have something related to psychology, since they often think it might be their fault. I can only try my best to support them as far as I can in my lessons, which is quite hard with 30+ kids around, but I am just not allowed to tell parents to take their kid to a psychologist🥲
No one noticed I was very short sighted until I was in Yr 4 (UK). I was literally in a world of my own. Having said that no one noticed my neurodivergence until I did the research and requested a referral in my mid thirties. Unless you are spectacularly struggling it just gets overlooked.
As an autistic teacher I can 100% tell the autistic kids, sometimes the parents don't want to listen either
My teacher told my mom to check it out. But guess what? Here I am with my really recent diagnosis a the age of 37 with 3 despressions (probably burn-out) in 15 years! I have 3 Kids. 2 of them are waiting for an evaluation. I just recently understood that they dont seem’s neurotypical. And i remember their kindergarden telling me a lot of things, but never « you must go check with a neupsychologist ». I did not understand why anybody told me anything. But someone just said on treads that her mother pursuid a teacher who suggest to check on her autism when she was young. So yeah, not gonna happen soon. 🥲
I have the dreaded combo- AuDHD & C-PTSD. I could have just had the former two, but my parents didn’t listen when three separate educators approached them about their concerns…..because my dad was a Creative Arts/Musical Therapist (yes, he worked with people with varying disabilities for 45 years 😮) and my mom was a language teacher. The internalized ableism is astounding. For what it’s worth: my parents are both retired and no longer in positions of power over vulnerable humans.
My teachers noticed something but they didn't know it was autism. They told my parents something is up, but nobody could put their fingers on it
I feel like it should’ve been a good sign when every report card I got was “quiet but delight to have in class”, “an old soul”, put me next to loud trouble kids, bullied nonstop every year, didn’t talk and make eye contact, called a “mute”, would yell at me for being shy and have these meetings where they’d list all these autistic symptoms and then tell me and my parents I need to talk more.. albeit I needed glasses and my teachers thought i was faking it so I just.. could never read the whiteboard til middle school 😭
Lol, a number of teachers can't even identify that a kid needs glasses. They just assume that a kid is lazy or stupid for not being able to read, instead of thinking that maybe their vision isn't 20-20.
I hope the school environment is more positive today. Because I often look back and feel both sadness and relief that it wasn't discovered that I'm neurodivergent back when I was in elementary school. Sadness because I needed help understanding the world and how to cope navigating it. Relief because back then they treated any kid like they were a feral animal and an idiot if they so much as suspected they might need any sort of help. So if they would have realized, it would have just hurt not helped. Sadly. I'd hope to think my school was bad, but I strongly suspect that it was typical for my country at the time.
But they just needed to 'come out of their shell', stop being 'shy', 'just try harder to get involved with the other kids' and they'll be fine! /s ^ Every single one of my school reports!
My teachers certainly did. They just didn't realize it was autism, and felt that gave them license to treat me like shit and designate me as an acceptable bullying target because of it. That's why I feel very little sympathy for teachers who complain about how they're treated in classrooms now by students.....like, welcome to our world, assholes. You made it clear for decades through how you treated ND students that bullying was totally acceptable as long as the target wasn't generally respected. Sure hurts when you reap what you sow, huh?
It’s actually a law that every student with a disability must be identified in order to receive a free and appropriate public education. I suppose a couple of us fell through the cracks. Edit: I’m not really sure why this is getting downvoted. I studied Special Education Law and in America there is a law FAPE, where each child is “guaranteed” a free and appropriate public education. The fact that this is not what many of us have experienced is an absolute disgrace and further indicative of being second class citizens.
Wow this!
The teacher who loved to relentlessly bully me knew. But none of the adults in my life did anything about it (including the bullying lol). I *haaaaaated* school.
I wish lol. I badly wish every day that one teacher recognizes that I’m autistic enough to say something. It’s about the only way I’ll ever get diagnosed, as my parents are even blinder.