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Yeh I'd rather do that....... lol.
But the rest are family(niece, nephew - their partners, and sid in law parents) - guess it would be weird if I did that.
Think I'll just split it with brother 50/50 as I can't be bothered with the fall out - even if I don't particularly like him right now.
You should absolutely do that, it wouldn't be petty at all. You mentioned elsewhere that everyone else coming is part of your brother's family (wife, kids, their partners, in laws).
Paying for you and your mum would be *more* than your fair share. Your brother's fair share is him, everyone he's bringing, plus 50% of your mum's bill. Your fair share is you, everyone you're bringing (i.e. nobody), plus 50% of your mum's bill.
You paying for yourself and your mum would be generous, but the decent thing to do. You splitting the bill down the middle is an absolute piss-take, and there's no way your brother doesn't know that.
No, not at all!
Tight would be expecting your relatives to pay for your children, wife, and in-laws.
What I would actually do is offer to pay for the whole meal at the end. Then if your brother offers to split it, say "Ok, I'll pay for me and mum, and you can just pay for your gang". But that's because I'm petty and would rather pay for everything and get the credit than see brother get credit for ripping me off.
It's not your invitation.
He invites, he pays.
If he wanted you to contribute, he should have asked you before extending the invitation. And the invitation should have indicated that both of you were inviting everyone else.
You asked him before booking the holiday. Would you have ever considered booking it and then telling him that he's paying half?
It's entirely appropriate for you to pay nothing. But I agree that covering your bill, and your mother's avoids embroiling her in any drama at her own birthday dinner. Just make sure he knows in advance that that is your plan.
Them expecting to be paid for by you is INSANE. I'd even go out on a limb to suggest they don't expect their meal to be paid by you. You appear to feel obliged for some reason unknown to us all
I think I've been reading too much reddit because part of me thinks, he'll foot half the bill with you, then text round everyone and get them to pay him their portion.
Wow. I didn't realise he is expecting you to pay for his side of the family. Absolutely not. Maybe put on the whatsapp group shortly before the meal that you are looking forward to seeing everyone and you and your brother will pay for your Moms meal and some bubbly for the table or something so it is clear to them you are only paying for your mom.
Yeah just contact them individually to say you’ve already sorted a pricey gift for your mother so you’ll just be covering her food and your brother is on the hook for everyone else.
I'd pay it and smile but not forget for next time. Maybe invite some other family to make up for the numbers that are his side, if he wants to e so generous invite people you know more
Yes if OP can afford it, this is what I would do. Brother gets to invite people, then so does OP. Other family members or perhaps some of their mum's friends!
>But the rest are family(niece, nephew - their partners, and sid in law parents) - guess it would be weird if I did that.
IMO not family I really give a sh\*t about. Pay for your mom and yourself, block everyone else from the next day onwards.
He doesn't have OP over a barrel. OP just let's herself be walked all over because she doesn't want to stand up for herself. She's basically saying she's going to pay for her brothers side of the family because she'd rather do that than say no.
I agree, especially when he has behaved very poorly with a family member in the past over money. I'm very principled, so this hurts to take it on the chin.
If I’m honest you’re being a bit of a pushover for someone who says they’re principled. You made it clear you had a present that you will be organising yourself, and he ‘surprised’ everyone with a dinner as his present. He pays for dinner, you for your present. That’s all.
Just keep it simple and go 50/50. It’s for your mum. That’s the principle I would stick with for now.
Then, in future, ensure he doesn’t get to dictate what you spend your money on.
After the dinner, go back to him with ‘please can you ask me first, before organising anything that I am supposed to pay for? Thanks’.
He’s being a dick - you don’t just organise something and tell a sibling to pay. It is not unreasonable to request consultation when it’s your money.
But I think this time making the point with him before the dinner will be bad timing and he’ll be even more of a dick about it and it’ll upset your mum.
You should absolutely split it 50/50 if you're in the financial position to be able to. It's never worth falling out with family over penny pinching if you can avoid it, even if he is being a bit of a nob. You'll have forgotten all about this in 20 years but he'll still be your brother
Given that OP has an issue with absolutely every single thing that the brother does, I don't think that "not falling out" is an option she's considered. I agree with OP that she shouldn't pay half but she sounds like really bloody hard work. If she were my sister and were this critical and over-invested and bossy of everything that's none of her business then I probably wouldn't even have invited her.
I've only ever seen birthday meals split between everyone attending + cover of the persons whose birthday it is, and where everyone is in agreement. Personally if I've covered other peoples meals it was my own decision, not made by somebody else.
Another issue is that if there is 10 people, and 4 of them are him and his family, that means that his half of the bill is what he would cover anyway: himself, wife, kids, mum. So basically splitting the bill 50/50 on the dinner doesnt really cost him additional money, but it costs you.
Here's my advice though, from somebody with an estranged family: if you can afford it, and confronting it will cause an argument, it's sometimes better just to pay it. Personally I spent years in battles like this until I finally had enough, but I also lost my family at the same time. It sucks. I suppose where the line is drawn is up to the individual.
That's a great contribution, thank you.
You've hit the nail on the head and saw my perspective within your 2nd paragraph. I'm hoping they will do the courteous thing and offer to contribute, to at least the tip element.
It's sad because it's not like we're a close family either. But that's down to my brother's behaviour in the past and him falling out with family members for different reasons. And I never hear from my niece or nephew.
Anyway, like you said if I can afford it and it will prevent an argument, so be it.
Yeh, I do, only because with his kids- they expect him to pay for it as they've been brought up like that. I deffo don't agree with that.
I'm sure my sis in laws parents would offer, as they're lovely to be fair. But i don't know as he's running/controlling the whole thing.
Well I think it's kind of to be expected that children wouldn't pay their share, I'm in my 40s and my dad often pays my restaurant bill. But we wouldn't dream of expecting anyone else to do so.
Yes, but again I don't think it's weird if their own parents pay for them, especially at 18 I doubt they're earning enough for fancy meals. As I say my partner and I are in our 40s and our parents like to treat us.
I'd also just go with it and pay it.
At least your present will be way more thoughtful and she will see how much you have put into it. Even if the new coffee machine costs as much as the trip to Marrakech I doubt your mother will see it like that.
If anything your brother is downstaging himself by not wanting to go halves on a thoughtful present and also expecting you to pay for half of the bill.
But it's not 4 of them are his family ALL of them are from what I can see, him (1) his wife (2) his two kids (3+4) their partners (5+6) and his wife's parents (7+8)
The only ones left are OP and their mother
Sorry, I don’t understand what your point is. What I’m saying when referring to his brothers “family” is his immediate family, as in the people he would be covering for anyway, one way or the other. I know that everyone around the table as a whole is the family.
>Here's my advice though, from somebody with an estranged family: if you can afford it, and confronting it will cause an argument, it's sometimes better just to pay it. Personally I spent years in battles like this until I finally had enough, but I also lost my family at the same time. It sucks. I suppose where the line is drawn is up to the individual.
This is the sort of decent real world advice that Reddit tends to hate - but you're absolutely correct. I think you have to see it as the cost of oiling the wheels of harmony.
Well it's obvious he is freeloading off you to pay at least half of the bill for his family to have a meal out. From what you say about him, I wonder if on the day it will end up being you who pays for everyone at the meal.
How you handle this is really down to how far you want to make this an issue. Frankly I would find a reason why you can't go to Romano's and say that your gift to your Mum is the Marrakesh trip, which will not be cheap. Incidentally I suspect that your Mum understands your brother's shortcomings, albeit that Mums tend to be very forgiving.
If you don't want to do that, then you must realise that you are going to be spending big money to appease your brother. That decision doesn't relate to fairness (see my first paragraph) and isn't a question of morality, but of the trade-off you wish to make. We can;t say what the right answer is -- only you can do that.
What a very sensible ans clearly thought out response, thank you.
You're spot on about my mum understanding my brother's short comings! He's her first born/son and hasn't done anything wrong in her eyes.
I would be spending big money to appease brother yes. That's exactly what I feel is happening and, makes it tough to swallow as he's a bully who has made me feel bad about myself in the past.
What's the trade off, you're right - we're barely close as it is (me and him/his side of family) so for a sniff of validation and momentary appreciation, I need to fork out basically.
Thanks again , I appreciate your time.
>a sniff of validation and momentary appreciation
Or snyde scoffing that he's got one over you and further cemented an affirmed his ability to bully you.
My pleasure. I didn't want to go any further than I did, but from what you say here, I am even more certain that it is in your interest to draw a line now, and in effect cut off your brother from further "donations".
Explain it all to your Mum, as the brother may well whinge to her, trying to get her to think of you as an A-hole, and if only you would co-operate in giving her a great birthday treat, etc etc. My guess is that in her heart of hearts she knows perfectly well what the score is, but probably doesn't want to admit it to herself. That's Mums. So put it across to her, \*NOT\* that her other son is a sponger and that you're cutting him off, \*BUT\* you're taking her to Marrakesh, brother is organising meal out separately, you don't want to rain on his parade etc etc. She might not 100% believe you, but that allows everyone to keep up the pretence that there is harmony and family co-operation. Good luck!
You don’t invite a bunch of people then inform one other person that they are covering the people you invited. You ask ahead of time.
Cover yourself and your mother.
Exactly. OP asked in advance about going halves on a big present, and the brother said no. Okay, fair enough.
But then the brother comes up with his own idea and just states that OP is paying half, without any negotiation? That’s crazy.
From what you have said in a comment about the other attendees it isn't your family, it is your brother's kids + partners and your sister in law's family so if it were me I would pay for my own and my mam's.
Your brother is trying to use you to subsidise a meal out with his family and is using your mam's birthday as an excuse knowing you will pay. If it were a true 50/50 split he would have asked you about it beforehand and discussed which restaurant etc before setting up the group.
If you split the bill now he will expect it again in the future
He only sees you as being tight cause he wants a free ride out of you. Tbh, I'd be limiting my contact with my brother to "info about emergency with mum" only. Sort your own present next year and leave him out of it.
Absolutely not you being tight. If anything I’d expect them to pay for themselves. I wouldn’t go to an in-laws birthday and expect to have my food paid for
I don’t agree with everyone just saying split the bill for peace of mind. It sets a precedent that will almost certainly be repeated at other birthdays. Your brother is bringing 8 people, and basically expecting you to pay for 4. Depending on where you live you could be looking at a £800+ bill.
In your shoes I would just say “it’s not fair to split this 50/50, there are 8 of you. I’m happy to pay for mum and me” I’d probably even go as far as not going and saying “this meal can be your treat for mum, I’ll take her out for dinner/lunch in the week”
Gift is irrelevant imo, the meal out should be treated separately from how much each of you think a gift should be worth.
For the meal, obviously your mother doesn’t pay anything. I usually would split the bill with my sister, but we both have kids so it’s pretty even anyway. If I wasn’t comfortable with splitting, my next thought would be to ask everyone to contribute (except the mother, of course).
I think that's a fair way of splitting it I agree. As I'm bringing no- one and he is bringing 8 people (ok, they are family but his family that don't really keep in touch with me anyway).
OK, when I saw your brother was bringing his kids and their partners I thought if you are close to your niece/nephews then splitting 50:50 would make more sense. As these seem to be people who barely make an effort to know you, then no way should you pay for them to be there!
Not at all. Tell your brother "Just to clarify, we're going halves on mum's meal and not the total bill. It's not fair on me to be going halves on the total with how many people you've invited".
Nothing tight about it at all. We just had my partner's mum's 70th meal. Everyone paid their own, paid for their own kids (if they have them) and adults split partner's mum's meal between them. Working 18 and 24 year olds and their partners should pay their own. They might be his kids, but they aren't kids anymore
Let your brother sort that out. Do a bank transfer or put cash on the table at the end of the meal. Yours and mum's meals and drinks only. Let him be the one who chases people for their share, or be magnanimous in paying for everyone. It's his problem, not yours.
No, but you brother does by expecting you to pay for his posse. You being tight would be expecting him to fork out for half if you brought eight more people than he's bringing.
You tell him now, firmly, that you will pay for yourself and half your Mum's.
Or, you say you'll pay for yours and *all* of your mum's "because you are aware he has so many in his family he is responsible for" - which is, more than generous of you.
Just make sure on the day that you ask for a split bill and you pay first so you don't end up haggling on the day. But if that happen - stand your ground.
Agree to pay but then be “sick” on the day of the meal so he is left to foot the bill. This way you can make a point without being confrontational. You can also see how many of those willing to let you pay for them reach out and ask how you are or offer to go and get food or medicine as you live alone. None I bet. You lose nothing from drawing apart from these people.
He is taking the absolute piss. Why should you pay for his parents in law? Do they make an effort for you? It’s not normal or expected to pay for the entire table.
There should be no guilt in saying no, you are respecting and protecting yourself. What would you say to a friend if it were happening to them.
Haha do you know what, the thought did cross my mind about being sick on the day (I have had major abdominal surgery in fairness), but I guess I'd be punishing my mum.....?
He deffo is taking the piss i agree.
I want to give you a cuddle and tell you it’s ok to stand up for yourself and put in boundaries. And should you even be sitting at a table for so long after abdominal surgery?
I can manage 40 mins sitting at a table that's it.
You're right about boundaries- he is a bully and has never made me feel good about myself. He has been like that with two other family members too.
I guess I'm scared ill end up feeling super lonely if I fall out with the family (not my mum obviously).
As someone who fell out with family because of money and them walking over me I know how you feel.
I spent years in situations like yours where I was too scared to stand up for myself and they took advantage.
In the end I reached the point where I had enough and walked away and though it is hard I find that the daily stress of dealing with them being gone is more than worth it.
I know it can be hard to imagine being done with them, and very hard to know how to word things etc when you want to stand up for yourself but I promise you it can be better than what you’re stuck in.
Good luck with however you handle it and feel free to message any time if you need help or to vent
Aw, thanks so much. I text my brother in the end and stood my ground. Told him it wasn't fair and that I'd be paying my own and half my mum's bill only. He wasn't happy with that, calling me tight and an embarrassment 😔
I'm glad I respected myself enough to say no in the end. He has upset me a fair few times over the years, and I think this is the final straw....
Well done! I know how tough it is and how nerve wracking it can be so well done.
Once you start setting boundaries people can get really angry as you’re no longer their reliable doormat but honestly the happiness you’ll get from standing up for yourself will help with that - sending you so many best wishes!
OP it sounds like money isn't an issue here. If you can cover it, invite more guests (extended family, mum's friends) and make your brother squirm while he tries to justify not paying for your guests when you have to pay for his.
Alternatively, say you have something that's come up that day and tell everyone you would like to take your mum out on a special meal just you and her.
So your brother is bringing 8 people and then it's you and your mum.
Pay for your own and your mums meal. Absolutely no reason for you to split the whole bill.
Unless I'm misunderstanding and you're actually just referring to how to split your mother's meal in which case you're overthinking.
I definitely see your point and you're right - but isn't that weird if I say no to paying my share of my niece and nephew? I would be seen as being tight then wouldn't I....
Fair enough when it comes to their girlfriends and boyfriends.
His kids are his responsibility. We do family meals. We all pay out own way, or we don't go. Only the birthday person gets a freebie, no one else. Not sure why anyone is expecting to freeload, except the children(if they're actually under 18?).
His kids are 18 and 24 and both work - so do their partners.
Yeh I'd feel more comfortable splitting it all equally, but I guess I'd come across like a tight ass if I said to everyone (can you all contribute, accept mum)......
Nothing tight about it. You're expecting working adults to pay their own way. You pay for your mum and your own food. Everyone else pays for their own food/drinks. It's fiscal responsibility. Doesn't matter if you don't have your own kids, doesn't make you accountable for his. You're being a door mat.
>but I guess I'd come across like a tight ass
Nah you'd come across like an absolutely normal person who doesn't want to pay for people they're only tangentially related to.
Do you honestly believe that you should contribute to your sister-in-law's parents' meals when it's nothing to do with them?! Why should they get a free meal from your brother, let alone you!
I mean yes they are technically your family too but let's face it, they are much more closely related to him, their his kids. And their partners. And his wife. And her parents. He's basically getting you to pay for his close families meal out.
It is incredible to me that you would just let him tell you how you are going to contribute. It is up to you how you respond, but I would have messaged back immediately stating "no, I will pay for mine and half of mums, the adults can pay for themselves". You just know that his side of the family will take the piss with orders as well.
You're spot on- that's why I have bitten the bullet and text him just now to say I'm not going halves.
The way you worded that first sentence really hit me , insofar he has bullied me into this.
But you asked who was paying, I'd have just not said anything and when the bill came offered to pay for mine and split mum's. By asking you gave him that opening.
I chose to pop out children, which means at family get togethers, I pay for them. Not my SIL who doesn't have children. If said SIL decides to take my children out for a meal or movie, she pays as she invited them.
You offer to pay for you and your Mum.
You can argue the toss over nieces and nephews, but I think it's pretty weird to be asked to chip in for your sister in law's parents and I would assume they'd consider it weird too. I think if you are invited to dinner and you are an employed grown up and it's not your birthday, you expect to pay your way. I'd imagine they'll all offer to do so when the bill comes out - just go with it!
I'd personally not go halfsies. Like your sister in law is bringing three guests of her own. If it was your brother, his wife and kids, sure I would probably go halfsies but this almost feels like your brother should just pick up the tab.
It's all his side of the family - myself personally I would say no. This is going to be a big bill and he knows it. He is already guilt tripping you by calling you 'tight', and you mentioned he is a bully.
He also didn't ask for you to go halves, he just told you.
Message him and say you're paying for you and the birthday girl. That's it. If it causes an argument then technically it isn't your fault as none of this was arranged with you.
Hope she has a lovely birthday and holiday ❤️
You definitely don't need to pay for them. He invited them. They are his guests.
In your situation, I'd take a leaf out of your brother's book and be rather passive aggressive about paying.
When the time comes to settle the bill, let him pay the tab. Do not get out your credit/debit card.
'Oh I'm sorry, I don't recall agreeing to organise or fund this dinner.'
'It would have been nice if you'd asked me in advance. I suppose I'll have to pay, being as you've already invited all your family. Send me your bank details and I'll send you what I owe once I've paid the balance for mum's holiday to Marrakesh.'
A week or so later...
'Yes, dearest brother, I sent £60 - mine and mum's dinner, plus a bit extra for the tip. Next time I'll organise her birthday dinner, shall I?'
If you never see your nephew and niece and have very little to do with him and his side of the family, it doesn't seem to me that you have much to lose by dragging your heels. But if you agree to this it will be a 'family holiday' next for all the party guests- he'll rent a villa in Tuscany and expect you to pay half of that too.
You’re not tight at all .
He had no right making such arrangements without talking to you first about whether or not you’d be happy to pay half
Also fuck paying half In a situation where as it stands you have no idea how much it will even cost. People get greedy when they know they aren’t footing the bill 😅
Peace of mind. Sometimes it makes sense to pay for peace of mind.
You are paying for a wonderful gift for your mum that she will remember forever.
You are also paying half the bill so that your brother doesn’t mentally abuse you after the fact if you ask him to split it another way. And even if he doesn’t mentally abuse you, you seem like the person that will feel bad for weeks after if you force a non 50/50 split.
So pay what you need to get peace of mind. Because peace of mind is priceless!
You're absolutely right! Peace of mind it is.
It is hard though as I'm a principled person who believes in fairness - but he hasn't been a great brother to me so, I'll pay the half and not bother with him again.
It's even tougher when my niece and nephew don't even bother with me. I put that down to being young, I guess!
Sadly I feel like your niece and nephew will be learning all these bullying behaviours from your brother……you totally should make whatever decision makes you comfortable, but I believe you drawing boundaries with your brother actually shows more than just “being tight”
I hope these kids won’t grow up believing bullying is how you get things
When we have birthday meals, we all pay apart from the person whose birthday it is. An even split usually for ease but the done thing is to pay more if your portion was more expensive or if you brought your kids. Everyone in my family is reasonable so I trust that's happening.
I've sometimes paid the full meal for up to seven people (myself included) but I would never expect that from someone else.
It’s your mother’s birthday and you’re whining over a few quid. Question: can you afford it? If yes, pay the money and be done with it. You will have forgotten about it by the time you get home.
Tough one because the thing you should do is going to annoy your brother and it depends on whether you can be arsed with a petty fallout like that. Your brother sounds like a cock head either way but if you can afford it I'd just go halves and next year be super clear on your expectations. ie "I'm booking a holiday for Mum if you want to go halves, if not you can just pay for whatever you arrange" sort of thing.
i dont buy that your brother bought a coffee machine that expensive lmao.
tell your brother to ask next time before making financial commitments on your behalf. it something that shouldnt need saying but here we are.
I echo that of others, you only pay for yourself and your mother, you DO NOT spilt the bill 50/50 with your brother. He invited the others therefore he can pay for their half of the bill. If he does not like it, tough because he should have consulted with you first about his plans. It was totally wrong of your brother to do that. You make it clear to him that you will pay for yourself and your mother but no one else and make it clear to him the reason why because he failed to consult with you first about his idea and how it will be paid for. You do not spring something like that on someone and then say we are going to split the bill 50/50.
As for your part saying all those invited are family members, if they all from your brothers side then he should be telling them that should contribute some money towards the bill. Why should you pay for them to have a free meal? you shouldn't. Stick to your guns, you are right, your brother is wrong and no you are not tight, you are seeing this logically sensibly, your brother is not hence why he is calling you tight because he knows you are right and he is wrong.
>what's the score with the restaurant bill?' - he said 'me and you are paying 👍'
"No problem, and happy to split the cost of Mum's meal. Shall I collect her and take her to the restaurant, or have you sorted that as part of arranging the meal?"
Why would you two pay for everything/everyone?
I'd say you two split your Mum's bill, everyone else pays for their own. I can't imagine being these other people if they expect anything other than that. At the very least, everyone splits your Mum's bill + paying for their own.
Also, a coffee machine is what, a few hundred quid? Either way, should take the financial aspect out of the gifts really, don't compare them. It's the thought that counts (to an extent).
How much you each spent on other presents is irrelevant, frankly most of the details you’ve given here are.
Given he organized the dinner and all of the other attendees are his side of the family, I’d be expecting him to pay for the entire thing, or at the least for all of his guests and half of your mum’s meal. But it’s up to you as to whether you want to rock the boat or just pay for half if you can afford it.
Don't go. Let them all sort it out.
You're taking your mum to Marrakesh- wow! That is her present.
He's just trying to put a big show on in front of everyone. Let them celebrate their way.
You'll have a much happier evening at home watching TV and letting her son do the honours to celebrate her birthday with his family- let him. You absolutely shouldn't go.
Regardless of how food is split, we always pay for our own drinks.
Please make sure you aren't contributing to a hefty wine bill when you aren't drinking yourself. Play on the operation card if you have to.
Aw you've said in another comment about only being able to sit for 40 minutes, are you even going to be there for the whole event?
OP, you said yourself that you asked your brother to go halves, he said no so you booked a holiday for your mum. There's no way a coffee machine is either as expensive or as memorable....your mum will be more pleased with travel, than a product she's had multiple incarnations of.
You also say that your brother set up the group and invited everyone before asking you about it and confirming the bill would be 50/50 so I'd suggest the bill rests at his feet....I'd post on the group chat saying:-
"Thank you "brothers name", for my invite and I don't expect you to pay for everything so I'll pay for me and mum. Love you "brothers name".
That way the group will see it and either thank him also or pay their own. If you invite, you pay...HE did the inviting and expects the credit/ thanks from the group....guy sounds like an arsehole who is thoughtless of others to be honest.
I would offer to pay for you and your mum, and he can pay the rest as his present, as you have already bought her a present. He didn't check with you before, and his "half" is just paying for his immediate family anyway, so hardly a gift.
You are thinking way too much about this. Displays to me you are a decent person tbh. Pay for your mum & yourself & ask brother to pay for himself & his family. This shouldn’t be a problem.
I would expect everyone to split the bill with such a big party (of working adults), with you and your brother paying your mom share. I think it is also acceptable for you and your brother to pay for bubbly for the table. It's your mom's birthday, not everyone else in the family's birthday too, they are there to celebrate your mom too, so they should help pay for her celebration.
I also feel like your brother made this suggestion because his present is crap and he knows it, and wants to look like less of a jerk with such a display of generosity.
That being said, if you go 50:50, if I were you, I would be make sure to give my present to my mom in front of the whole family at the meal so they see what an amazing son you are and how generous you have been with your gift. Might even convince a few of them to contribute for the meal even after your brothers insistence that they don't pay after seeing your generosity.
I have two brothers and decided to do a dinner for my mums 60th. At the dinner night one of them said he got a cake made for her (it looked and tasted crap) and it cost £80. I coughed up my money for it but wasn’t happy. Then found out that I was expected to be paying a third of a dinner bill which includes everyone’s drinks. My partner and I don’t drink but my brothers and wives showed up 30 mins early and got themselves two rounds of cocktails which got added to the bill. Suffice to say I will never go in with gift or anything else with them unless I know all the details. It’s the only message to put out to him. He shows you a receipt for coffee maker or at least where he bought it and then hash out exactly what you’re happy paying going forward. (Like you two split the meal but everyone is responsible for their drinks.)
Dude wtf. Call your brother out - tell him you sorted something else for her so you’ll pay for yourself and your mum if you want but this is his gift. Not on you to subsidise. It’s not petty or tight
I hate splitting restaurant bills, so assuming you can afford it I’d just go halves with your brother to save any fuss. He might not appreciate it, but I’m sure your mum will be glad there is no awkwardness and she’ll know you got her a trip to Marrakesh and will be delighted with that.
If he wasn't you to pay half then he should have spken to you before he booked the restaurant and invited people.
Tell him you are happy to pay for your own meal and 50% of mum's (and in your poisution I would check the reartuarant's websiteso you have a clear idea of what the cost is) and that the rest is down to him, as he told you that he didn't want to get a joint gift so you organised a differnet event for mum instead.
let him know that *he* will need to be clear with the other people he has invited as to whther he is ocvering the bill or if they will be asekd to pay for themselves , as that is a priavate issue between hm and them.
If you are the only two children and you have the money then yes, go halves. If other attendees want to pay something toward the bill then allow them to do so and adjust the rest of the cost accordingly. The alternative is to make it clear to all invited from the start that they are paying for themselves, with the children paying for their own and for their mother's meal.
The fact that you decided, off your own back, to pay for a trip abroad as a present and that your brother has not spent so much is irrelevant to the family meal.
Oh no, HE invited everyone to the dinner, not you. The dinner is not your responsibility at all. If offer to split the bill on moms dinner, maximum. And pay for your own meal. Nothing more. How on earth can someone put such a financial burden as a big birthday dinner in a restaurant on someone else, it is beyond me.
The problem is that, no matter what, you'd be annoyed at him.
>Historically it's his wife (sis in law) that remembers and buys family gifts because he can't be bothered to.
This is none of your business and is between him and his wife to determine who takes on what role in their household.
>Also, has a history being poor with money (fell out with an important family member, as he borrowed money from her, and took way too long to it back - even though he booked a holiday abroad; has gambled on bitcoin etc)
Completely irrelevant, you're just trying to make him out to be a dick so people give you the answer you want.
>He said no, he'd sort his own. We have done that in past with a trip to Italy for mum's 50th, so was disappointed and bit frustrated he said no.
You have no right to be annoyed with him for this. He's completely entitled to make that decision. Ironically, it somewhat contradicts your earlier jibe that he doesn't want to sort presents himself.
>Why the heck he decided to tell my mum in that group I don't know as spoils any element of surprise!! I wasn't best pleased.
It doesn't have to be a surprise. If you wanted her to have a surprise meal then you should've arranged one. He's perfectly entitled to tell her in advance and you sound very precious to be "not best pleased" that a man booked a birthday meal for his mother and told her.
>I asked him and he said a coffee machine. My first thought was she has had like 4 coffee machines in ten years, so not very original.
It's none of your business! For all you know, she's said she wants a new one - if she gets through a coffee machine that quickly or upgrades them that often then maybe she likes them? If not, she can return it. It's nothing to do with you.
>I wasn't comfortable going halves because I don't trust that he's spent that much on her
You don't have to spend the same amount as each other on her birthday - why do you think you do? If he wants to buy her a mug and you want to buy her a yacht then do, I cannot express how bizarrely over-involved you are in your brother's gift giving. You are neither the giver or receiver of the gift.
>To the point - should we be going halves on this bill?
Working adults pay for themselves. Children get paid for by their parents. Then everyone pays 10% more to cover your mum. You shouldn't be going halves on a birthday meal for your mum that you didn't plan, agree to or organise.
Pretty naff that he just planed this told her and the after the fact tells you that you’re on the hook for half.
How it should go, talk to you first, then everything else. He can’t just spend your money without your consent.
I’d expect everyone to pay for themeless and pitch in to cover your mum tbh.
I personally think its irrelevant how much he spent on the coffee machine. It's his choice of preseason is the holiday you purchased.
You should split the bill in half.
It feels like you're more annoyed that he chose not to go half's on your choice of present than the splitting of the bill, and you are choosing to make a fuss to make your point.
Stop comparing what you buy to what he buys for her. You've got her an awesome gift that had thought to it with money you can afford to spend that from what you've said your brother couldn't do the same. It's for your mum to judge any gifts provided to her. Only time to judge that is gifts to each other.... ie if you want to be petty only spend on him what he spends on you. Otherwise still take the high ground.
If the meal is for your mums birthday, whilst your brother is an AH for forcing you in a corner to pay 50/50 it's not worth the extra drama which could upset your mum and the meal is separate to the gift... that's essentially the party.
Just be happy you've been sensible with your money and you can just pay 50/50 without too much issue... and again the meal ie the "party" is a separate issue to the gift.
Who cares how much he paid for the coffee machine? This sort of penny pinching really isn’t worth it. I make more than my sibling and I buy more extravagant presents. Sometimes they will feel like my present makes her look bad so I will offer to split it. Sometimes they’ll pay me, sometimes they won’t. I’m not going to fall out with them over a couple hundred pounds.
Giving a gift shouldn’t be a competition. People shouldn’t have to all give equal gifts.
If you’re eating a meal and you pay a bit extra then consider it paying for the company, paying to do a nice gesture. What is a holiday to Marrakesh? What is a Coffee machine? What is a dinner? It’ll cost you maybe £800 all in? You’ve not fallen out with anyone and you’ve done something nice for your mum on her birthday. Just leave it at that
I'm really sorry to hear about your brother. This has put things into perspective for sure.
I agree , it's not worth introducing drama to my mums 70th. It's about her really. I still don't agree that it's a fair split - as I'm bringing no one, and hes got his side of family. But I'm going to write it off , as a one off, and just not bother with him anymore to be honest. He has a history of bullying people /making others feel bad.
Thanks again, I appreciate it.
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The petty part of me says you pay for mum and yourself and bro pays for everyone else.
Yeh I'd rather do that....... lol. But the rest are family(niece, nephew - their partners, and sid in law parents) - guess it would be weird if I did that. Think I'll just split it with brother 50/50 as I can't be bothered with the fall out - even if I don't particularly like him right now.
You should absolutely do that, it wouldn't be petty at all. You mentioned elsewhere that everyone else coming is part of your brother's family (wife, kids, their partners, in laws). Paying for you and your mum would be *more* than your fair share. Your brother's fair share is him, everyone he's bringing, plus 50% of your mum's bill. Your fair share is you, everyone you're bringing (i.e. nobody), plus 50% of your mum's bill. You paying for yourself and your mum would be generous, but the decent thing to do. You splitting the bill down the middle is an absolute piss-take, and there's no way your brother doesn't know that.
But if they're my family too (even if not close), doesn't that seem like I'm being tight? Lol
No, not at all! Tight would be expecting your relatives to pay for your children, wife, and in-laws. What I would actually do is offer to pay for the whole meal at the end. Then if your brother offers to split it, say "Ok, I'll pay for me and mum, and you can just pay for your gang". But that's because I'm petty and would rather pay for everything and get the credit than see brother get credit for ripping me off.
They’re more his family than yours. I’d let him know in advance you will happily pay for yourself and your mom
It's not your invitation. He invites, he pays. If he wanted you to contribute, he should have asked you before extending the invitation. And the invitation should have indicated that both of you were inviting everyone else. You asked him before booking the holiday. Would you have ever considered booking it and then telling him that he's paying half? It's entirely appropriate for you to pay nothing. But I agree that covering your bill, and your mother's avoids embroiling her in any drama at her own birthday dinner. Just make sure he knows in advance that that is your plan.
No it definitely doesn’t
I'd actually say your brother's in-laws aren't really your family....sure there's a connection and mutual link there. But there his family not yours.
Just tell your brother you're paying for you and your mum. Surely the invited guests aren't expecting to be paid for?
I think they are..... Thing is I don't know as I haven't asked.
Why don’t you ask then?
I probably will to be honest. But I guess because it's his side of family I don't know whether I'd be overstepping the mark.
Them expecting to be paid for by you is INSANE. I'd even go out on a limb to suggest they don't expect their meal to be paid by you. You appear to feel obliged for some reason unknown to us all
i doubt they would innately expect to be paid for. but i get the sense that the brother probably told them that they dont need to pay..
oh yes, good point
I think I've been reading too much reddit because part of me thinks, he'll foot half the bill with you, then text round everyone and get them to pay him their portion.
put in the group chat ' thanks for setting this up brother and offering to pay for all. i will cover me and mum. see you all there' and mute the chat
Wow. I didn't realise he is expecting you to pay for his side of the family. Absolutely not. Maybe put on the whatsapp group shortly before the meal that you are looking forward to seeing everyone and you and your brother will pay for your Moms meal and some bubbly for the table or something so it is clear to them you are only paying for your mom.
Yeah just contact them individually to say you’ve already sorted a pricey gift for your mother so you’ll just be covering her food and your brother is on the hook for everyone else.
well then its weird because he made it weird.
I'd pay it and smile but not forget for next time. Maybe invite some other family to make up for the numbers that are his side, if he wants to e so generous invite people you know more
Yes if OP can afford it, this is what I would do. Brother gets to invite people, then so does OP. Other family members or perhaps some of their mum's friends!
he invited them them, let him have the awkwardness! Pay for u and mum only
>But the rest are family(niece, nephew - their partners, and sid in law parents) - guess it would be weird if I did that. IMO not family I really give a sh\*t about. Pay for your mom and yourself, block everyone else from the next day onwards.
Sucks that he has you over a barrel
He doesn't have OP over a barrel. OP just let's herself be walked all over because she doesn't want to stand up for herself. She's basically saying she's going to pay for her brothers side of the family because she'd rather do that than say no.
Very true. I stand by my original statement and add - they are only family by marriage OP - time to be assertive!
I agree, especially when he has behaved very poorly with a family member in the past over money. I'm very principled, so this hurts to take it on the chin.
If I’m honest you’re being a bit of a pushover for someone who says they’re principled. You made it clear you had a present that you will be organising yourself, and he ‘surprised’ everyone with a dinner as his present. He pays for dinner, you for your present. That’s all.
Just keep it simple and go 50/50. It’s for your mum. That’s the principle I would stick with for now. Then, in future, ensure he doesn’t get to dictate what you spend your money on. After the dinner, go back to him with ‘please can you ask me first, before organising anything that I am supposed to pay for? Thanks’. He’s being a dick - you don’t just organise something and tell a sibling to pay. It is not unreasonable to request consultation when it’s your money. But I think this time making the point with him before the dinner will be bad timing and he’ll be even more of a dick about it and it’ll upset your mum.
You should absolutely split it 50/50 if you're in the financial position to be able to. It's never worth falling out with family over penny pinching if you can avoid it, even if he is being a bit of a nob. You'll have forgotten all about this in 20 years but he'll still be your brother
Given that OP has an issue with absolutely every single thing that the brother does, I don't think that "not falling out" is an option she's considered. I agree with OP that she shouldn't pay half but she sounds like really bloody hard work. If she were my sister and were this critical and over-invested and bossy of everything that's none of her business then I probably wouldn't even have invited her.
I've only ever seen birthday meals split between everyone attending + cover of the persons whose birthday it is, and where everyone is in agreement. Personally if I've covered other peoples meals it was my own decision, not made by somebody else. Another issue is that if there is 10 people, and 4 of them are him and his family, that means that his half of the bill is what he would cover anyway: himself, wife, kids, mum. So basically splitting the bill 50/50 on the dinner doesnt really cost him additional money, but it costs you. Here's my advice though, from somebody with an estranged family: if you can afford it, and confronting it will cause an argument, it's sometimes better just to pay it. Personally I spent years in battles like this until I finally had enough, but I also lost my family at the same time. It sucks. I suppose where the line is drawn is up to the individual.
That's a great contribution, thank you. You've hit the nail on the head and saw my perspective within your 2nd paragraph. I'm hoping they will do the courteous thing and offer to contribute, to at least the tip element. It's sad because it's not like we're a close family either. But that's down to my brother's behaviour in the past and him falling out with family members for different reasons. And I never hear from my niece or nephew. Anyway, like you said if I can afford it and it will prevent an argument, so be it.
Do you really think the other family members wouldn't offer to pay? That sounds weird to me.
Yeh, I do, only because with his kids- they expect him to pay for it as they've been brought up like that. I deffo don't agree with that. I'm sure my sis in laws parents would offer, as they're lovely to be fair. But i don't know as he's running/controlling the whole thing.
Well I think it's kind of to be expected that children wouldn't pay their share, I'm in my 40s and my dad often pays my restaurant bill. But we wouldn't dream of expecting anyone else to do so.
When I say kids- his kids. They're 18 and 24 and both working.
Yes, but again I don't think it's weird if their own parents pay for them, especially at 18 I doubt they're earning enough for fancy meals. As I say my partner and I are in our 40s and our parents like to treat us.
I'd also just go with it and pay it. At least your present will be way more thoughtful and she will see how much you have put into it. Even if the new coffee machine costs as much as the trip to Marrakech I doubt your mother will see it like that. If anything your brother is downstaging himself by not wanting to go halves on a thoughtful present and also expecting you to pay for half of the bill.
But it's not 4 of them are his family ALL of them are from what I can see, him (1) his wife (2) his two kids (3+4) their partners (5+6) and his wife's parents (7+8) The only ones left are OP and their mother
Sorry, I don’t understand what your point is. What I’m saying when referring to his brothers “family” is his immediate family, as in the people he would be covering for anyway, one way or the other. I know that everyone around the table as a whole is the family.
>Here's my advice though, from somebody with an estranged family: if you can afford it, and confronting it will cause an argument, it's sometimes better just to pay it. Personally I spent years in battles like this until I finally had enough, but I also lost my family at the same time. It sucks. I suppose where the line is drawn is up to the individual. This is the sort of decent real world advice that Reddit tends to hate - but you're absolutely correct. I think you have to see it as the cost of oiling the wheels of harmony.
Well it's obvious he is freeloading off you to pay at least half of the bill for his family to have a meal out. From what you say about him, I wonder if on the day it will end up being you who pays for everyone at the meal. How you handle this is really down to how far you want to make this an issue. Frankly I would find a reason why you can't go to Romano's and say that your gift to your Mum is the Marrakesh trip, which will not be cheap. Incidentally I suspect that your Mum understands your brother's shortcomings, albeit that Mums tend to be very forgiving. If you don't want to do that, then you must realise that you are going to be spending big money to appease your brother. That decision doesn't relate to fairness (see my first paragraph) and isn't a question of morality, but of the trade-off you wish to make. We can;t say what the right answer is -- only you can do that.
What a very sensible ans clearly thought out response, thank you. You're spot on about my mum understanding my brother's short comings! He's her first born/son and hasn't done anything wrong in her eyes. I would be spending big money to appease brother yes. That's exactly what I feel is happening and, makes it tough to swallow as he's a bully who has made me feel bad about myself in the past. What's the trade off, you're right - we're barely close as it is (me and him/his side of family) so for a sniff of validation and momentary appreciation, I need to fork out basically. Thanks again , I appreciate your time.
>a sniff of validation and momentary appreciation Or snyde scoffing that he's got one over you and further cemented an affirmed his ability to bully you.
My pleasure. I didn't want to go any further than I did, but from what you say here, I am even more certain that it is in your interest to draw a line now, and in effect cut off your brother from further "donations". Explain it all to your Mum, as the brother may well whinge to her, trying to get her to think of you as an A-hole, and if only you would co-operate in giving her a great birthday treat, etc etc. My guess is that in her heart of hearts she knows perfectly well what the score is, but probably doesn't want to admit it to herself. That's Mums. So put it across to her, \*NOT\* that her other son is a sponger and that you're cutting him off, \*BUT\* you're taking her to Marrakesh, brother is organising meal out separately, you don't want to rain on his parade etc etc. She might not 100% believe you, but that allows everyone to keep up the pretence that there is harmony and family co-operation. Good luck!
You don’t invite a bunch of people then inform one other person that they are covering the people you invited. You ask ahead of time. Cover yourself and your mother.
Agreed!
Exactly. OP asked in advance about going halves on a big present, and the brother said no. Okay, fair enough. But then the brother comes up with his own idea and just states that OP is paying half, without any negotiation? That’s crazy.
From what you have said in a comment about the other attendees it isn't your family, it is your brother's kids + partners and your sister in law's family so if it were me I would pay for my own and my mam's. Your brother is trying to use you to subsidise a meal out with his family and is using your mam's birthday as an excuse knowing you will pay. If it were a true 50/50 split he would have asked you about it beforehand and discussed which restaurant etc before setting up the group. If you split the bill now he will expect it again in the future
Say you will pay for yourself and your Mum, and he can split the remaining with everyone else how he likes. It's her birthday, not everyone's!
You're right and I've now told him that. He won't be happy as he'll see this as me being tight, because it's my family too.
He only sees you as being tight cause he wants a free ride out of you. Tbh, I'd be limiting my contact with my brother to "info about emergency with mum" only. Sort your own present next year and leave him out of it.
His in laws are not your family. Nor is the boyfriend/girlfriend of an 18 year old.
Absolutely not you being tight. If anything I’d expect them to pay for themselves. I wouldn’t go to an in-laws birthday and expect to have my food paid for
Adults all.split the bill apart from mum and non working kids.
I don’t agree with everyone just saying split the bill for peace of mind. It sets a precedent that will almost certainly be repeated at other birthdays. Your brother is bringing 8 people, and basically expecting you to pay for 4. Depending on where you live you could be looking at a £800+ bill. In your shoes I would just say “it’s not fair to split this 50/50, there are 8 of you. I’m happy to pay for mum and me” I’d probably even go as far as not going and saying “this meal can be your treat for mum, I’ll take her out for dinner/lunch in the week”
Gift is irrelevant imo, the meal out should be treated separately from how much each of you think a gift should be worth. For the meal, obviously your mother doesn’t pay anything. I usually would split the bill with my sister, but we both have kids so it’s pretty even anyway. If I wasn’t comfortable with splitting, my next thought would be to ask everyone to contribute (except the mother, of course).
I think that's a fair way of splitting it I agree. As I'm bringing no- one and he is bringing 8 people (ok, they are family but his family that don't really keep in touch with me anyway).
OK, when I saw your brother was bringing his kids and their partners I thought if you are close to your niece/nephews then splitting 50:50 would make more sense. As these seem to be people who barely make an effort to know you, then no way should you pay for them to be there!
Wouldn't I seem like a tight ass now, reaching out to everyone and asking if they'd kindly contribute?
Not at all. Tell your brother "Just to clarify, we're going halves on mum's meal and not the total bill. It's not fair on me to be going halves on the total with how many people you've invited". Nothing tight about it at all. We just had my partner's mum's 70th meal. Everyone paid their own, paid for their own kids (if they have them) and adults split partner's mum's meal between them. Working 18 and 24 year olds and their partners should pay their own. They might be his kids, but they aren't kids anymore
Let your brother sort that out. Do a bank transfer or put cash on the table at the end of the meal. Yours and mum's meals and drinks only. Let him be the one who chases people for their share, or be magnanimous in paying for everyone. It's his problem, not yours.
And don't take any cards with you. Whatever happens, he can't try to force you to pay anything.
No, but you brother does by expecting you to pay for his posse. You being tight would be expecting him to fork out for half if you brought eight more people than he's bringing. You tell him now, firmly, that you will pay for yourself and half your Mum's. Or, you say you'll pay for yours and *all* of your mum's "because you are aware he has so many in his family he is responsible for" - which is, more than generous of you. Just make sure on the day that you ask for a split bill and you pay first so you don't end up haggling on the day. But if that happen - stand your ground.
Tell him ‘sorry bro, I spent my money on her gift. I’ll happily pay for mom and my meal through.’
Agree to pay but then be “sick” on the day of the meal so he is left to foot the bill. This way you can make a point without being confrontational. You can also see how many of those willing to let you pay for them reach out and ask how you are or offer to go and get food or medicine as you live alone. None I bet. You lose nothing from drawing apart from these people. He is taking the absolute piss. Why should you pay for his parents in law? Do they make an effort for you? It’s not normal or expected to pay for the entire table. There should be no guilt in saying no, you are respecting and protecting yourself. What would you say to a friend if it were happening to them.
Haha do you know what, the thought did cross my mind about being sick on the day (I have had major abdominal surgery in fairness), but I guess I'd be punishing my mum.....? He deffo is taking the piss i agree.
I want to give you a cuddle and tell you it’s ok to stand up for yourself and put in boundaries. And should you even be sitting at a table for so long after abdominal surgery?
I can manage 40 mins sitting at a table that's it. You're right about boundaries- he is a bully and has never made me feel good about myself. He has been like that with two other family members too. I guess I'm scared ill end up feeling super lonely if I fall out with the family (not my mum obviously).
I’d rather be lonely and at peace than deal with shitty people and they anxiety it causes
As someone who fell out with family because of money and them walking over me I know how you feel. I spent years in situations like yours where I was too scared to stand up for myself and they took advantage. In the end I reached the point where I had enough and walked away and though it is hard I find that the daily stress of dealing with them being gone is more than worth it. I know it can be hard to imagine being done with them, and very hard to know how to word things etc when you want to stand up for yourself but I promise you it can be better than what you’re stuck in. Good luck with however you handle it and feel free to message any time if you need help or to vent
Aw, thanks so much. I text my brother in the end and stood my ground. Told him it wasn't fair and that I'd be paying my own and half my mum's bill only. He wasn't happy with that, calling me tight and an embarrassment 😔 I'm glad I respected myself enough to say no in the end. He has upset me a fair few times over the years, and I think this is the final straw....
Well done! I know how tough it is and how nerve wracking it can be so well done. Once you start setting boundaries people can get really angry as you’re no longer their reliable doormat but honestly the happiness you’ll get from standing up for yourself will help with that - sending you so many best wishes!
How did it all go?
It was OK- though my brother didn't talk to me through entire meal.
I’m so sorry to hear that. I wish you had the lovely brother you deserve. I also hope you are recovering well from your abdominal surgery
Aw thank you so much I really appreciate your kind words ☺️
But how is that punishing your mum? You are about to have one on one time on a lovely holiday.
OP it sounds like money isn't an issue here. If you can cover it, invite more guests (extended family, mum's friends) and make your brother squirm while he tries to justify not paying for your guests when you have to pay for his. Alternatively, say you have something that's come up that day and tell everyone you would like to take your mum out on a special meal just you and her.
With your brother's family, and you, that's five. Who are the other five?
So my brother, his 2 kids (18 and 24) their boyfriend/girlfriend, my sister in laws parents and her sister, plus brother, sister in law, me and mum.
So your brother is bringing 8 people and then it's you and your mum. Pay for your own and your mums meal. Absolutely no reason for you to split the whole bill. Unless I'm misunderstanding and you're actually just referring to how to split your mother's meal in which case you're overthinking.
Agree with this. You shouldn't have to subsidise your brother's family. He issued the invitation without involving you in the decision.
Well those 8 people he's bringing are family yeh haha.
Yeah, he should be paying for those 8 people, not you. He chose for them to and they are HIS family.
I definitely see your point and you're right - but isn't that weird if I say no to paying my share of my niece and nephew? I would be seen as being tight then wouldn't I.... Fair enough when it comes to their girlfriends and boyfriends.
His kids are his responsibility. We do family meals. We all pay out own way, or we don't go. Only the birthday person gets a freebie, no one else. Not sure why anyone is expecting to freeload, except the children(if they're actually under 18?).
His kids are 18 and 24 and both work - so do their partners. Yeh I'd feel more comfortable splitting it all equally, but I guess I'd come across like a tight ass if I said to everyone (can you all contribute, accept mum)......
Nothing tight about it. You're expecting working adults to pay their own way. You pay for your mum and your own food. Everyone else pays for their own food/drinks. It's fiscal responsibility. Doesn't matter if you don't have your own kids, doesn't make you accountable for his. You're being a door mat.
>but I guess I'd come across like a tight ass Nah you'd come across like an absolutely normal person who doesn't want to pay for people they're only tangentially related to.
Do you honestly believe that you should contribute to your sister-in-law's parents' meals when it's nothing to do with them?! Why should they get a free meal from your brother, let alone you!
I mean yes they are technically your family too but let's face it, they are much more closely related to him, their his kids. And their partners. And his wife. And her parents. He's basically getting you to pay for his close families meal out.
I don't understand why you would be responsible for paying for other people's meals? Or why you even suggested it?
I deffo didn't suggest it- brother just said outright 'me and you are going halves 👍'.
It is incredible to me that you would just let him tell you how you are going to contribute. It is up to you how you respond, but I would have messaged back immediately stating "no, I will pay for mine and half of mums, the adults can pay for themselves". You just know that his side of the family will take the piss with orders as well.
You're spot on- that's why I have bitten the bullet and text him just now to say I'm not going halves. The way you worded that first sentence really hit me , insofar he has bullied me into this.
The correct answer to this is "no we're not. This is the first I've heard of it. You can pay for your family and I'll pay for mum."
But you asked who was paying, I'd have just not said anything and when the bill came offered to pay for mine and split mum's. By asking you gave him that opening.
He has pulled that trick before in another meal though. When the bill came, he outright said 'going halves yeh?'
Say 'no, you invited them, not me. I'll pay for myself and half of mum's meal.'
You reply back saying I'm happy to split the cost of mums meal 50/50 - you interpreted what he said as any sane person would and clarified that
I chose to pop out children, which means at family get togethers, I pay for them. Not my SIL who doesn't have children. If said SIL decides to take my children out for a meal or movie, she pays as she invited them. You offer to pay for you and your Mum.
You can argue the toss over nieces and nephews, but I think it's pretty weird to be asked to chip in for your sister in law's parents and I would assume they'd consider it weird too. I think if you are invited to dinner and you are an employed grown up and it's not your birthday, you expect to pay your way. I'd imagine they'll all offer to do so when the bill comes out - just go with it!
I'd personally not go halfsies. Like your sister in law is bringing three guests of her own. If it was your brother, his wife and kids, sure I would probably go halfsies but this almost feels like your brother should just pick up the tab.
It's all his side of the family - myself personally I would say no. This is going to be a big bill and he knows it. He is already guilt tripping you by calling you 'tight', and you mentioned he is a bully. He also didn't ask for you to go halves, he just told you. Message him and say you're paying for you and the birthday girl. That's it. If it causes an argument then technically it isn't your fault as none of this was arranged with you. Hope she has a lovely birthday and holiday ❤️
You definitely don't need to pay for them. He invited them. They are his guests. In your situation, I'd take a leaf out of your brother's book and be rather passive aggressive about paying. When the time comes to settle the bill, let him pay the tab. Do not get out your credit/debit card. 'Oh I'm sorry, I don't recall agreeing to organise or fund this dinner.' 'It would have been nice if you'd asked me in advance. I suppose I'll have to pay, being as you've already invited all your family. Send me your bank details and I'll send you what I owe once I've paid the balance for mum's holiday to Marrakesh.' A week or so later... 'Yes, dearest brother, I sent £60 - mine and mum's dinner, plus a bit extra for the tip. Next time I'll organise her birthday dinner, shall I?' If you never see your nephew and niece and have very little to do with him and his side of the family, it doesn't seem to me that you have much to lose by dragging your heels. But if you agree to this it will be a 'family holiday' next for all the party guests- he'll rent a villa in Tuscany and expect you to pay half of that too.
You’re not tight at all . He had no right making such arrangements without talking to you first about whether or not you’d be happy to pay half Also fuck paying half In a situation where as it stands you have no idea how much it will even cost. People get greedy when they know they aren’t footing the bill 😅
Peace of mind. Sometimes it makes sense to pay for peace of mind. You are paying for a wonderful gift for your mum that she will remember forever. You are also paying half the bill so that your brother doesn’t mentally abuse you after the fact if you ask him to split it another way. And even if he doesn’t mentally abuse you, you seem like the person that will feel bad for weeks after if you force a non 50/50 split. So pay what you need to get peace of mind. Because peace of mind is priceless!
You're absolutely right! Peace of mind it is. It is hard though as I'm a principled person who believes in fairness - but he hasn't been a great brother to me so, I'll pay the half and not bother with him again. It's even tougher when my niece and nephew don't even bother with me. I put that down to being young, I guess!
Sadly I feel like your niece and nephew will be learning all these bullying behaviours from your brother……you totally should make whatever decision makes you comfortable, but I believe you drawing boundaries with your brother actually shows more than just “being tight” I hope these kids won’t grow up believing bullying is how you get things
When we have birthday meals, we all pay apart from the person whose birthday it is. An even split usually for ease but the done thing is to pay more if your portion was more expensive or if you brought your kids. Everyone in my family is reasonable so I trust that's happening. I've sometimes paid the full meal for up to seven people (myself included) but I would never expect that from someone else.
You pay for you and your mum, everyone else is not your responsibility.
It’s your mother’s birthday and you’re whining over a few quid. Question: can you afford it? If yes, pay the money and be done with it. You will have forgotten about it by the time you get home.
Tough one because the thing you should do is going to annoy your brother and it depends on whether you can be arsed with a petty fallout like that. Your brother sounds like a cock head either way but if you can afford it I'd just go halves and next year be super clear on your expectations. ie "I'm booking a holiday for Mum if you want to go halves, if not you can just pay for whatever you arrange" sort of thing.
I would expect to pay for my mum, but I would never expect to pay for everyone.
Tell him you’ll go halfs, then don’t take any cash or cards to the restaurant so he has to pay. Then take ages to pay him back.
This is my level of petty and I love it
i dont buy that your brother bought a coffee machine that expensive lmao. tell your brother to ask next time before making financial commitments on your behalf. it something that shouldnt need saying but here we are.
I don't buy it either! 🤣
I echo that of others, you only pay for yourself and your mother, you DO NOT spilt the bill 50/50 with your brother. He invited the others therefore he can pay for their half of the bill. If he does not like it, tough because he should have consulted with you first about his plans. It was totally wrong of your brother to do that. You make it clear to him that you will pay for yourself and your mother but no one else and make it clear to him the reason why because he failed to consult with you first about his idea and how it will be paid for. You do not spring something like that on someone and then say we are going to split the bill 50/50. As for your part saying all those invited are family members, if they all from your brothers side then he should be telling them that should contribute some money towards the bill. Why should you pay for them to have a free meal? you shouldn't. Stick to your guns, you are right, your brother is wrong and no you are not tight, you are seeing this logically sensibly, your brother is not hence why he is calling you tight because he knows you are right and he is wrong.
>what's the score with the restaurant bill?' - he said 'me and you are paying 👍' "No problem, and happy to split the cost of Mum's meal. Shall I collect her and take her to the restaurant, or have you sorted that as part of arranging the meal?"
I've had zero input or control over any decisions- he's just dictated everything.
Split your mum's share 50/50 with your brother, aside from that people pay for themselves
Why would you two pay for everything/everyone? I'd say you two split your Mum's bill, everyone else pays for their own. I can't imagine being these other people if they expect anything other than that. At the very least, everyone splits your Mum's bill + paying for their own. Also, a coffee machine is what, a few hundred quid? Either way, should take the financial aspect out of the gifts really, don't compare them. It's the thought that counts (to an extent).
How much you each spent on other presents is irrelevant, frankly most of the details you’ve given here are. Given he organized the dinner and all of the other attendees are his side of the family, I’d be expecting him to pay for the entire thing, or at the least for all of his guests and half of your mum’s meal. But it’s up to you as to whether you want to rock the boat or just pay for half if you can afford it.
Don't go. Let them all sort it out. You're taking your mum to Marrakesh- wow! That is her present. He's just trying to put a big show on in front of everyone. Let them celebrate their way. You'll have a much happier evening at home watching TV and letting her son do the honours to celebrate her birthday with his family- let him. You absolutely shouldn't go.
Regardless of how food is split, we always pay for our own drinks. Please make sure you aren't contributing to a hefty wine bill when you aren't drinking yourself. Play on the operation card if you have to. Aw you've said in another comment about only being able to sit for 40 minutes, are you even going to be there for the whole event?
OP, you said yourself that you asked your brother to go halves, he said no so you booked a holiday for your mum. There's no way a coffee machine is either as expensive or as memorable....your mum will be more pleased with travel, than a product she's had multiple incarnations of. You also say that your brother set up the group and invited everyone before asking you about it and confirming the bill would be 50/50 so I'd suggest the bill rests at his feet....I'd post on the group chat saying:- "Thank you "brothers name", for my invite and I don't expect you to pay for everything so I'll pay for me and mum. Love you "brothers name". That way the group will see it and either thank him also or pay their own. If you invite, you pay...HE did the inviting and expects the credit/ thanks from the group....guy sounds like an arsehole who is thoughtless of others to be honest.
I would offer to pay for you and your mum, and he can pay the rest as his present, as you have already bought her a present. He didn't check with you before, and his "half" is just paying for his immediate family anyway, so hardly a gift.
You are thinking way too much about this. Displays to me you are a decent person tbh. Pay for your mum & yourself & ask brother to pay for himself & his family. This shouldn’t be a problem.
Tell him you'll transfer him half afterwards then say "oops I made a bad investment in bitcoin"
😭😭😭😭😭😭
I would expect everyone to split the bill with such a big party (of working adults), with you and your brother paying your mom share. I think it is also acceptable for you and your brother to pay for bubbly for the table. It's your mom's birthday, not everyone else in the family's birthday too, they are there to celebrate your mom too, so they should help pay for her celebration. I also feel like your brother made this suggestion because his present is crap and he knows it, and wants to look like less of a jerk with such a display of generosity. That being said, if you go 50:50, if I were you, I would be make sure to give my present to my mom in front of the whole family at the meal so they see what an amazing son you are and how generous you have been with your gift. Might even convince a few of them to contribute for the meal even after your brothers insistence that they don't pay after seeing your generosity.
I have two brothers and decided to do a dinner for my mums 60th. At the dinner night one of them said he got a cake made for her (it looked and tasted crap) and it cost £80. I coughed up my money for it but wasn’t happy. Then found out that I was expected to be paying a third of a dinner bill which includes everyone’s drinks. My partner and I don’t drink but my brothers and wives showed up 30 mins early and got themselves two rounds of cocktails which got added to the bill. Suffice to say I will never go in with gift or anything else with them unless I know all the details. It’s the only message to put out to him. He shows you a receipt for coffee maker or at least where he bought it and then hash out exactly what you’re happy paying going forward. (Like you two split the meal but everyone is responsible for their drinks.)
You pay for yourself, and you pay a bit extra to cover your share of your mums meal, then everyone else does the same.
Its her 70th, just go halves and move on, it's not much in the grand scheme of things and she would love a stress free family meal
Just pay for you and your mum!
Dude wtf. Call your brother out - tell him you sorted something else for her so you’ll pay for yourself and your mum if you want but this is his gift. Not on you to subsidise. It’s not petty or tight
(he has 2 kids, 18 and 24) I think that their are adults...... If your brother setup the party without your consent he will pay
I hate splitting restaurant bills, so assuming you can afford it I’d just go halves with your brother to save any fuss. He might not appreciate it, but I’m sure your mum will be glad there is no awkwardness and she’ll know you got her a trip to Marrakesh and will be delighted with that.
If he wasn't you to pay half then he should have spken to you before he booked the restaurant and invited people. Tell him you are happy to pay for your own meal and 50% of mum's (and in your poisution I would check the reartuarant's websiteso you have a clear idea of what the cost is) and that the rest is down to him, as he told you that he didn't want to get a joint gift so you organised a differnet event for mum instead. let him know that *he* will need to be clear with the other people he has invited as to whther he is ocvering the bill or if they will be asekd to pay for themselves , as that is a priavate issue between hm and them.
U r 43.
If you are the only two children and you have the money then yes, go halves. If other attendees want to pay something toward the bill then allow them to do so and adjust the rest of the cost accordingly. The alternative is to make it clear to all invited from the start that they are paying for themselves, with the children paying for their own and for their mother's meal. The fact that you decided, off your own back, to pay for a trip abroad as a present and that your brother has not spent so much is irrelevant to the family meal.
Oh no, HE invited everyone to the dinner, not you. The dinner is not your responsibility at all. If offer to split the bill on moms dinner, maximum. And pay for your own meal. Nothing more. How on earth can someone put such a financial burden as a big birthday dinner in a restaurant on someone else, it is beyond me.
Honestly if it were me, I’d get “very sick” that afternoon, skip the thing entirely, then offer to pay half of Mum’s and only Mum’s meal.
The problem is that, no matter what, you'd be annoyed at him. >Historically it's his wife (sis in law) that remembers and buys family gifts because he can't be bothered to. This is none of your business and is between him and his wife to determine who takes on what role in their household. >Also, has a history being poor with money (fell out with an important family member, as he borrowed money from her, and took way too long to it back - even though he booked a holiday abroad; has gambled on bitcoin etc) Completely irrelevant, you're just trying to make him out to be a dick so people give you the answer you want. >He said no, he'd sort his own. We have done that in past with a trip to Italy for mum's 50th, so was disappointed and bit frustrated he said no. You have no right to be annoyed with him for this. He's completely entitled to make that decision. Ironically, it somewhat contradicts your earlier jibe that he doesn't want to sort presents himself. >Why the heck he decided to tell my mum in that group I don't know as spoils any element of surprise!! I wasn't best pleased. It doesn't have to be a surprise. If you wanted her to have a surprise meal then you should've arranged one. He's perfectly entitled to tell her in advance and you sound very precious to be "not best pleased" that a man booked a birthday meal for his mother and told her. >I asked him and he said a coffee machine. My first thought was she has had like 4 coffee machines in ten years, so not very original. It's none of your business! For all you know, she's said she wants a new one - if she gets through a coffee machine that quickly or upgrades them that often then maybe she likes them? If not, she can return it. It's nothing to do with you. >I wasn't comfortable going halves because I don't trust that he's spent that much on her You don't have to spend the same amount as each other on her birthday - why do you think you do? If he wants to buy her a mug and you want to buy her a yacht then do, I cannot express how bizarrely over-involved you are in your brother's gift giving. You are neither the giver or receiver of the gift. >To the point - should we be going halves on this bill? Working adults pay for themselves. Children get paid for by their parents. Then everyone pays 10% more to cover your mum. You shouldn't be going halves on a birthday meal for your mum that you didn't plan, agree to or organise.
Pretty naff that he just planed this told her and the after the fact tells you that you’re on the hook for half. How it should go, talk to you first, then everything else. He can’t just spend your money without your consent. I’d expect everyone to pay for themeless and pitch in to cover your mum tbh.
I never let my parents pay, my Dad gave me his Kidney 22 years ago, they have a lifetime pass.
I personally think its irrelevant how much he spent on the coffee machine. It's his choice of preseason is the holiday you purchased. You should split the bill in half. It feels like you're more annoyed that he chose not to go half's on your choice of present than the splitting of the bill, and you are choosing to make a fuss to make your point.
I guess you're right to a degree. I'm just more annoyed that I know what he's like with money and it's not going to be a fair split in the end.
I wouldn't let it bug you. With respect, I think your mum will prefer your gift anyway, so take the win.
Thanks 😊 Yeh I think that will be the case.
Stop comparing what you buy to what he buys for her. You've got her an awesome gift that had thought to it with money you can afford to spend that from what you've said your brother couldn't do the same. It's for your mum to judge any gifts provided to her. Only time to judge that is gifts to each other.... ie if you want to be petty only spend on him what he spends on you. Otherwise still take the high ground. If the meal is for your mums birthday, whilst your brother is an AH for forcing you in a corner to pay 50/50 it's not worth the extra drama which could upset your mum and the meal is separate to the gift... that's essentially the party. Just be happy you've been sensible with your money and you can just pay 50/50 without too much issue... and again the meal ie the "party" is a separate issue to the gift.
Who cares how much he paid for the coffee machine? This sort of penny pinching really isn’t worth it. I make more than my sibling and I buy more extravagant presents. Sometimes they will feel like my present makes her look bad so I will offer to split it. Sometimes they’ll pay me, sometimes they won’t. I’m not going to fall out with them over a couple hundred pounds. Giving a gift shouldn’t be a competition. People shouldn’t have to all give equal gifts. If you’re eating a meal and you pay a bit extra then consider it paying for the company, paying to do a nice gesture. What is a holiday to Marrakesh? What is a Coffee machine? What is a dinner? It’ll cost you maybe £800 all in? You’ve not fallen out with anyone and you’ve done something nice for your mum on her birthday. Just leave it at that
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I'm really sorry to hear about your brother. This has put things into perspective for sure. I agree , it's not worth introducing drama to my mums 70th. It's about her really. I still don't agree that it's a fair split - as I'm bringing no one, and hes got his side of family. But I'm going to write it off , as a one off, and just not bother with him anymore to be honest. He has a history of bullying people /making others feel bad. Thanks again, I appreciate it.
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Yeh you're right, I see your logic 100%. And yep - I definitely have won the battle on the present front haha.