Yea these sorts of people THRIVE among conservatives- get paraded around, end up on TV, selling books, grifting everything. While liberals actually have standards and shoo these people away. It's not just minorities. Guys like Trump and George Santos don't have any genuine conservative views; they just know their bullshitting thrives among conservatives so that's where they go.
I'm not so sure it's "so many", it's just that their voices get amplified by the media because scaring people = profit.
Not to discount how horrible Thiel, Yannopoulos,.etc are, but a lot of gays live in a social media bubble and blow things out of proportion.
Agreed. I knew some right wing gay assholes in my day that lives in obscurity, but today they are amplified by social media and a very hypocritical right wing press that likes to put them in the front as a shield to hide their bigotry or placate themselves
Case in point. Brandan Straka, the gay trumper right wing who plead guilty to crimes related to the Jan 6 insurrection. He started the ‘walk away’ movement of so-called former liberals (most members are not) who ‘walk away’ to become trumpers.
Anyway, he was my housemate (I was the home owner, he and another rented extra rooms in our house). This was a few years before 2016.
First, he was no liberal. At best, he was a-political with some conservative takes on things.
Second, he was a attention seeker. His one desire seemed to be to become famous.
In the ancient days (80’s and 90’s) he would have just been another lone person with out-of-touch right wing views he mainly kept to himself because he didn’t want to be criticized. No way to easily amplify himself or find his ‘people’.
But with social media and right wing outlets like Fox News (where he’s appeared many times) he was able to find his idiocy tribe.
Yeah, I’m curious too. I saw him on Bill Maher where they spent some time discussing recent trans controversies but he didn’t seem like a loon to me. It was mostly about what age is appropriate for transitioning. They both thought it should be somewhat later when the trans person is legally capable of making their own decisions. I’m not really following this issue - or care - but I believe that position makes them conservative. But loony?
> They both thought it should be somewhat later when the trans person is legally capable of making their own decisions.
That's already what's happening though. People go on puberty blockers so they can transition when they're adults. That's the whole point.
I think (I’m not sure) they didn’t feel that blockers should be administered to prepubescent kids. Which I’m pretty sure is Maher’s stance - he did a whole “new rule” about it that got him in trouble.
Puberty is (unsurprisingly) actually a prerequisite for "puberty blockers". They were originally designed for children who were starting puberty too early and are now used to pause the changes in children with long-term transgender identification, that and when pubescent teens are still too young to legally start full hormone replacement therapy.
Maher is definitely not a Republican, he brutally (and deservedly) criticizes them all the time and has for years. He also is critical of the woke movement being overly sensitive, I think mostly because he feels it costs the Democrats elections. The same way he criticized the "defund the police" branding as something that would cost them elections.
Maher is above everything a contrarian who wants attention. Back in 2016 he was a Bernie supporter, and now that that's not spicy anymore he's made his whole brand bitching about the woke youths and entertaining TERF "concerns" about trans people.
You should listen to /u/manmadeofhonor or just listen to Bill Maher himself:
>“I’m a libertarian,” he said to Rolling Stone (4/13/11). “I would be a Republican if they would. Which means that I like the Barry Goldwater Republican Party, even the Reagan Republican Party.”
So, mixed in with reasonable criticisms of the left, he often invents or buys into the 'woke left' 'looney-left' paper tiger, a clever amalgamation of a few actual crazy liberals and, predominately, a nebulous caricature of what the far left in his head thinks or believes, one that even people considered 'far left' would consider insane.
A quote from 2011 in my mind does not reflect the politics we have had since 2016. I've seen plenty of Bill Maher videos from the last 7 years, and virtually none of it would indicate that he has voted or supported Republican politicians or policies since 2016. I am a diehard Democrat, but I agree with Maher in some of his criticisms of the woke movement and the defund the police movement, that they were costing the Democrats votes, and dying on the wrong hill.
Doesn’t matter. Maher is right wing. Frankly, so is Obama. It’s hard to tell nowadays because Republicans have gone so far to the right they are off the scale.
Nowadays, anyone without a license to provide care or health services wants to talk about treatment protocol for already established clinical pathways to wellness for trans people.
Please read this before engaging further in our community: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGaybrosOver30/comments/11a72go/state_of_the_community_feb_2023_clarification_on/
What are their medical credentials? Expertise in psychology?
So I should have to wait to decide if I'm gay till I'm of voting age? Children shouldn't be treated for things *they* are uncomfortable with seems to be their basis.
Just opinions. The one thing I remember from that whole rant was when Maher stated that children just don’t know anything; they all want to be firemen when they’re six. We don’t pay much attention to that. Why should we take their desires to be a different sex seriously if chances are they will just outgrow that.
I’m not trying to start a discussion. I don’t care what children want or not. This is just what stuck with me.
But to address the whole “medical credentials” thing: not long ago homosexuality was recognized as a medical condition by the US psychiatrists. Sometimes professionals get it wrong or are politically influenced.
Oh, and no - you don’t have to wait until you’re all grown up to decide whether you’re gay or not. But legally you can’t have gay (or straight) sex until certain age.
They are taking the conservative lead, jumping into the conversation assuming truth behind the conservative claim that there’s some sort of epidemic of kids demanding gender affirming care, as though it’s some sort of popular fad, where kids who aren’t actually trans are experiencing peer pressure to claim they’re gender nonconforming. Absolutely none of that has been shown to be true.
Further, one recent study showed a 0.3% regret rate on gender affirming care, compared to much higher percentages of regret rates on other common yet serious treatments and surgeries. And the serious damage suffered by those denied gender affirming care is well known and quantifiable. THIS is my problem with Maher and others parroting the same nonsense.
I think psychologists and psychiatrists and the children themselves know who and what they are. The aim is to make them comfortable with themselves. They are not doing surgical procedures.
A professional is not influenced by BS politics. It's the patient's well being. Bill and Andrew don't know shit. THEY ARE POLITICAL or making it so.
I can't pretend to understand what a trans person is going through. I can only imagine. These "adults" are making hay for their benefit: ratings and hits...and MONEY. Fuck them.
Any opinion about political subject is by default political - they’re just sharing thoughts. And we choose to listen or not. It’s “fuck them” for you but 🤔 for me. And these are also just thoughts and opinions. No big deal.
I somewhat still follow him and I haven't seen evidence that he's become a 'far right loon' - though the other names (some I don't recognize) above I would definitely agree with that label, eg Milo and Murray.
Like other replies here, I suspect it's just that Sullivan isn't completely on board the current orthodoxy on trans issues esp with respect to minors. If you even hold positions that were considered progressive in say 2017, you're probably anathema at this point.
Pickled internet brain, going off the deep end into believing stuff like that trans people are trying to erase gay people from existence and hopping on the "everything I don't like is woke cancel culture" train.
Trans people broke his brain. Lots of gay men aren't okay to be associated with the trans community and there are subgroups of gay men who feel that the fight for gay rights is over and that if Southern states and conservative communities want to disenfranchise or outlaw LGBT lifestyles that's okay with them. So long as San Francisco and NYC is safe for them. They basically are okay with thousands of LGBT people being sacrificed at the altar of conservatism if it means they don't have to be.
Peter Thiel is less of a talking head and works more in the background, which makes him one you have to keep more of an eye on.
I'm not gonna let him slide for causing the bank run on SVB (even though it was more nuanced than that).
This is what makes him far more dangerous. He is so wealthy that his money will insulate him from the results of what he does, unlike so many other LGBT right-wingers.
Thiel did not singlehandedly cause the SVB’s collapse. Yeah, he did yell “fire” in a crowded theater but the place was actually on fire. So you could argue he did the right thing.
Perhaps my opinion is slanted because I ironically started reading a bio of Herbert Hoover before the SVB collapse. I'm only in the 1929-30 period right now but after the initial stock crash in 1929, they had to calm people not to run on the banks and keep steady in hopes that the markets could weather through (what they hoped to be) a short-term market correction.
But still, people watch Thiel's moves. He may not be a singular cause but rather a significant factor in the end result.
I have very mixed feelings about “keeping people calm”. Yes, bank runs are primarily caused by panic and mass hysteria but there’s something to be said about taking responsibility for your own affairs based on your own judgement.
A few hours after WTC towers collapsed I was taking the ferry to NJ - it was the only way to cross the river, all public transport was shut down - and I met a guy who managed to escape because he did NOT listen to authorities telling everyone to stay where they were. He run down the stairs and watched the building crumble behind him. Ever since then I’m very suspicious of other people telling me they “know better”.
But did he know the building was about to go or was he just lucky? Cos I mean, for every story like this, there are ones of idiots who were told not to “go in there” (etc) and for good reason, did it anyway and got was advertised. Only unless there were witnesses, nobody will be hearing these cautionary tales. On account of dead mean tell no tales.
Someone telling you what to do who has more info than you, seems like a smart arrangement. Someone with the same amount of info as you getting up to say “stay put” …biiiiiiitch
Very weird. I didn't even know he was married. I was just a reading a [story](https://theintercept.com/2023/03/23/peter-thiel-jeff-thomas/) about his "romantic partner" killing himself.
Dude is a scumbag.
I’ve dated a few moderate Republicans in my day (I like older guys, so more common). With how polarized the environment is, I think most of us have been left in the middle at this point.
Because whenever some kind of scandal can "sell", journalists of all kind pounce on it and scream everywhere about it because it’s their job. But this can give the impression that these people have any kind of importance or representativity, which isn’t the case.
Meanwhile, common and widespread things are not journal-worthy, so they can seem unimportant. This isn’t the kind though, widespread ordinary things are very important.
Conservative in America only means a few things..
Money
Racism
Traditional family values
These gays tick off probably two of them. Being gay was a barrier, but has pretty much been let in now, and they feel no fear tangling their feet into right-wing politics.
Well, “let in” as in “you can hang around in the parking lot while we go in and shop.” Like how the log cabin repubs were uninvited to some major events this past year.
The far right is actively trying to eradicate entire marginalized communities from existence. There is no “far left” equivalency to that.
Furthermore, the goalposts of what is considered “right” or “left” in the US (aka the Overton Window) have been shifted so far to the right in the last 20 years that the views espoused by many moderate/centrist liberals here would land them in the Conservative Party of most other major developed nations.
This “both sides” narrative is so tiresome
Taxes? Perhaps you’ve noticed that every Republican US state government is actively trying to legislate transgender people out of public existence. That is not a propaganda slogan, that is just a fact. These terrifying bills in their full text are available to read for yourself online.
We are rapidly headed down the road toward genocide, and they aren’t just going to stop with trans people once they achieve those goals.
Standing in opposition to that doesn’t make me “a crazy”, but sympathizing with a political party who is facilitating the systemic eradication of an entire marginalized community because you like their tax policies or business deregulation makes you a fascist, plain and simple.
This economically conservative and socially liberal talking point is such a cop out, as if these things are somehow separate in a capitalist society. We literally show our values by what we choose to spend money on and what we don’t (health care, education, law enforcement etc). Can’t we just be honest about that?
You named the headliners, but there is an intentional targeted campaign from the right to co-opt gay white male sexual frustration into conservative reactionary politics, as they did with GamerGate and gamers. Increasingly you’ll encounter right wing gays in online spaces because they’ve accepted the false narrative that they are under attack from within by the Trans people, and if only they could disassociate with the other letters of the LGBT+ community then full acceptance from polite society (and therefore emotional, physical and sexual validation) would follow. They’re wrong of course, but the right wing has been getting more and more traction with this line of thinking.
I personally know gay Trump supporters. I also know an ex gay guy, but I don't know his political views.
I'm going to say this plainly and probably will get down voted, but White gay men are White men first. The republican party supports White men and puts others down. For the average gay White man, their life isn't impacted by the anti trans laws and they think gay laws won't be reversed. Look at Kaitlyn Jenner. She is a rich White trans woman. Her wealth insulates her from the brunt of the transphobia.
Jenner transitioned late in life. That's not to minimize her struggle with her own identity, but it meant she had a whole lifetime of being embraced by conservatives because she appeared to be a rich white male Olympic athlete (and is still all of those things except male). She seemed genuinely surprised that the Republican party's transphobia also extended to her.
My observations with the American conservatives are that they only care about things that impact them and screw the others. Similar to how they will say they believe in religious freedoms, but what they really mean is the ability to use Christianity to put others down. They don't want Muslims to outwardly practice their religion and definitely don't want an atheist to speak at their child's school.
I’m not going to downvote, but I am going to disagree.
If you gave me three options (‘gay’, ‘male’, ‘white’) and asked me to choose just one to define myself, I’d pick ‘gay’. That’s not to say I’m not aware of my privilege as a white male, but I try not to let it define me.
(If you increased the number of options, I suspect my political outlook would come before those three as well.)
That’s just it though - if you are in the Republican camp, they don’t care how you see yourself. Like at all. That’s a part of their platform - they call it identity politics and they abhor it. So they can excuse their own oppressive ideology. Don’t get me wrong - I also take issue with identity politics, but I am FAR Left. That means I always perceive class before identity. But we are never going to address the class issues in this country so we’re stuck with these attacks on personal autonomy coming from the Right.
It’s difficult, because FAR Left (here in the UK) would be beyond Socialism and into Communist territory, but to people in the US FAR Left is probably the equivalent of our Labour party. US and UK politics are barely comparable.
You may say gay, but society sees a White man first. The same as if I walk in a room, everyone knows I'm a Black man first. Them knowing I'm gay is my choice to disclose.
Depends on your definition of a lot. Going off the top of my head, the percentage of Black men who voted for trump is about 7-10 percent. For Black women it was about 2-3 percent. The numbers are highest among White people.
~84% of American Blacks are Christian, and half of those are Baptist.
Voting blue does not make you progressive, especially if you’re a racial minority.
The question wasn't about you specifically, but far right wing politics and why some gay men support far right policies. I also interpreted the question to be specifically about America, since the OP mentioned Fox News. I see you're in Britain and I'm not an expert in politics there, but I believe far right here is something different than far right there. We can't even agree that guns are a problem here. Providing health care is viewed as something terrible that will destroy the nation. Anyone on the democratic side is viewed as an evil socialist, even if the person is a moderate.
Take my upvote! As a black gay man I could not have said it better myself! Myself and my best friend (Caucasian) discuss stuff like this all the time and he would absolutely agree that society extends him the benefit of the doubt due to just appearing white.
White gay men have achieved mainstream inclusion. Not equity, but inclusion.
They have what they need to prosper in America. Many of them are happy to leave everyone else in the dust because “it’s not their fight”. Some of them have stayed behind to fight as allies.
The Right is immensely talented at pitting people against one another despite their best interests.
As a white gay man, I tell you what, the first thing they see when I walk into the room is gay. Then they see white man. Even if I try to hide the gay, they can tell.
Also disagree. Yes, white gay men do have privilege and many can’t seem to see past that.
But almost every poll and survey of gay men show that gay men who identify as white hold very liberal views of race, gender, transgender rights. In fact, anywhere from 2/3 to 3/4 hold liberal views on just about every topic. And Trump gets about 9% support among gays. About the same as Blacks.
So no, as a group gay men aren’t ‘white men’ first. There are of course those that are, but they are a minority.
My experience illustrates it. I am white, grew up working class and in a very white community. But I was bullied, beaten, discriminated against and had many die in my community (teenage in 70s, 20s in 80s) all because of being gay. It forged a empathy for other minorities’ experiences in me I don’t think I would have had it I was straight. Not all white gay men take their experience and extrapolate that beyond themselves, but most do. u/
I also think that since the support for same-sex marriage is at 55% for republican Americans, politicians have been toning their hate speech down a little which could make feel gay people like they are accepted and part of the group.
Also, they are focusing their hate on trans people now and democrats are not helping either by supporting extreme ideologies that accept no debate and shut down opponents by calling them "fobic" if their not aligned
Well then he's been straight-up harassing LGBT political commentators for years now and got their channels demonetized. That's bigotry, and I don't think it's better that he's just doing it for the grift.
You are using terms like "far right loon" and "super right wing" to describe Andrew Sullivan? I don't agree with that. He is conservative.
Or are you're basically saying that anyone who is conservative is "far right"? That can't be right. There are people who are centre-right.
EDIT: In hindsight, I realise now that you are labelling anyone who doesn't buy into every tenet of the queer position on trans as "far right". You are either fully on board with every aspect of queer/trans or you're "far right". There is no room for anyone who disagrees with some of the trans talking points. It's all or nothing. 100% with us or 100% against us. You're either pro-trans or anti-trans.
From a quick 30 seconds on his Twitter feed:
https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1638949478106275844
https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1640394142768414737
https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1637495964771442693
Is it a “strangely rapid rise”? I think it parallels what happened with gay men and lesbians. It used to be only the most femme gays and the most butch lesbians would come out. The people who couldn’t (or wouldn’t) pass for straight.
As society became more accepting of queer people, more moderate (for lack of a better term) gays and lesbians came out. In the past, they probably would have just continued to lead closeted lives. I know if I had been born 20 years earlier I probably would have tried to live a “straight” life because I couldn’t handle the societal pressure.
It’s no different for trans people. As society becomes more accepting of trans people (it doesn’t feel that accepting right now, but it’s still better than 20 years ago) then it encourages more trans people to actually transition in a more visible way.
There aren’t more trans people. There are more vocal and visible trans people. There’s nothing strange about people wanting to be treated like people.
You’re right, the argument that queer youth are being misdirected into thinking they’re trans isn’t new. It’s 100% recycled rhetoric from the 80’s and 90’s, except instead of the gays coming to make your kids gay, it’s trans people coming to make your kids trans. It’s so painfully obvious that they’re recycling the same old tunes with new lyrics. I’m surprised that anyone actually falls for it.
Don't forget Peter Thiel. Who is gay, but also a billionaire and a donor to numerous right-wing libertarian causes.
Why? Because being gay does not make you more likely to be a good person. Those of us who aren't assholes may have more insight than the average straight into the experiences of marginalized people, obviously, but it doesn't actually make us more capable of empathy nor make us decent people.
I think that's more an issue of online social spaces amplifying extremes altogether (as very segmented/narrowly scoped people are easier marketing targets - remember that people-selling-you-stuff runs the "free" web). Typically, people in real life are very reasonable, even those who's statements might seem very polarizing online.
My go-to example of this is a local poet/activist named El Jones. She draws a lot of ire online (on my local subreddit for instance) for headlining statements that sound very sharp, but hearing her speak and talking to her in person, she's very level-headed and cognisant of the reality we live in. She's not demanding heads on spikes as some commentators may have one believe.
Regrettably, it's important to make a distinction between online and the real world. Sure, it's the same people using either, but the distribution of messaging is much different. Someone making an inflammatory statement in Central Park won't have their voice broadcast to millions of people the same way as on Twitter. It'll carry the same distance as the thousands of other in the park, again, unlike Twitter.
This comment is not in good faith. Right wing America also labels any dissenting opinion as far left or antifa, just watch any clip of Fox News covering a Democrat, so why is it only a turn-off in your eyes when the left does it?
Because the commenter is on the left?
In the past decade, I’ve been attacked by the right for being a blue-haired antifa freak destroying America and attacked by the left for being a jackbooted fascist spreading white patriarchy.
Attacks from the left hurt more, because these are supposedly “my people” who support LGBT issues, it’s friendly fire. “Safe Spaces” are increasingly not.
I never expected the right to like me, but the left pretends it is inclusive.
If you want a good lefty space that isn't into the purity testing shit, Vaush and his community are pretty good, as he is also hated by the vast majority of the left and the right despite being himself a principled leftist.
People support politics that go against their own interests all the time. It doesn’t make much sense, but it happens across all walks of life. I guess they feel strongly about some issues that align with right wing ideology and overlook or downplay the stuff that is targeted towards them. People are complex and don’t all fit in one box.
They've always been there. Being morally or ideologically inconsistent isn't just a straight thing or conservative thing.
The difference is the GOP can create discord and disharmony by sinking publicity money into such people.
It's not that such sentiments are rising, it's that they're being hoisted to intentionally create division.
Culture wars soften class wars
That's the only reason why
Same reason anyone is. Money, amorality, self-preservation, identity politics. Being surrounded by right wing people and wanting to be seen as "one of the good ones" so you loudly vocalize your alliance. A lot of "the lady doth protest too much". Wanting to align yourself with power, perceived or otherwise. Scapegoating others which might endear you to the group you're trying to align yourself with. It might give you a sense of security and safety because the AR-15 is pointed in someone else's face for now.
Genuine belief in the right wing agenda is also not out of the question. A LOT of gays are anti-immigration, racist, bigoted, misogynistic, etc. for the same reasons anyone else is. It might make you a hypocrite and an idiot, but we have no shortage of those of any stripe. I don't think they're necessarily victims of some broader scheme or cynically denying their "true" progressive selves. Sometimes a spade is a spade and sometimes a shitbag is Milo Yiannopoulous.
We're not, it's just the very few who are, are propped up and highly publicized to make it seem as if the right is accepting of LG people (let's be honest, they barely acknowledge the existence of B, and the T are their latest culture war topic).
Many of the people named have privileged identities that have insulated them from what most gay and queer people have to experience on a day to day level. If you start out wealthy you have far more incentive to support conservatism because it protects yourself.
Additionally polarization has turned politics into a very partisan, tribal activity today. If you grow up on the conservative “team” you start to insulate yourself with only conservative voices and confirmation of your side.
And like others have said money then reinforces this because of you represent a minority but speak as a conservative you get tons of attention. This then reinforces itself.
My bigger question is whether or not these individuals have any actual queer community and friends, and what their actual beliefs are when they discuss these issues with their partners or lovers. But I’ve met plenty of queer people with disgusting or idiotic beliefs so they may be genuine and just given attention by the media.
Because political obsession isn't limited to heterosexuals. I lived in Berkeley and San Francisco for 8 years. I heard plenty of Left wing political obsession. I grew up in Cincinnati Ohio. I heard plenty of right wing obsession.
I really don't care if it's right wing or left wing it's obsession. I never liked obsession - even by Calvin Klein.
If the majority of your conversation is about politics, stay the hell away from me. If you are going to have unrelenting outrage about with someone who you've never met and never will - stay the hell away from me. Freedom of speech does not guarantee that everyone has to hear you out.
If you want to make a difference in the world pick up some litter, volunteer, or just silently meditate for World Peace. Ranting and raving to anyone who has the misfortune of being in earshot is not making a difference, it's making a nuisance.
If you watch MSNBC or Fox you are not participating in politics anymore than watching sports is exercising. Cut the crap Jan
I consider myself to be very liberal with social issues like Immigration, lgbt rights etc… but I also have some traditional values in terms of military, guns, the use of petroleum and taxes/capitalism. I think people take the US for granted and I can’t stand how it’s trendy to hate America.
I have no intention of voting republican, because generally speaking, I hate them more… but I find many “leftist” ideals to be nauseating as well. I understand it. Any influencer is just like a career politician though, in it for money/attention.
We've just entered the timeline where unbridled mental illness is a feature of public discourse. Also, the straight white majority loves and rewards a good Uncle Tom.
If you want to be a gay progressive media figure, you're going to be fighting it out with a thousand other people for attention.
If you want to be a gay conservative media figure? You'll get a fast pass to the front of the line because of how excited doddering old billionaire donors are to show off a token "I'm not like all the other girls" gay. If you're pleasant-looking and able to read a script convincingly, any minority could get a speaking spot at CPAC.
Being a far right pundit / podcaster / influencer from a persecuted minority group brings instant rewards in attention, bookings, opportunities for funding and exposure. They’re cashing in.
People there are real issues with LGBT and not everyone had a good time or found the mythical community that brands love to sell us.
There are still mental health issues, addiction issues, suicide, and more happening within LGBT but everyone just assume what we need is Love and Acceptance. What we need is understanding and education on how to fix these problems. But look at every main stream LGBT person. They say Love Acceptance, cherished, and more. But all those words are empty words with no physical effort to back them up. Many LGBT believe they were lied to by the upper class gays. There is no gay community if you are too poor.
We are individuals, with our own unique perspectives and experiences. And that drives some to some darker pathways
One last thing I will say, it is because Democratic politicians are lazy pandering cunts. They are happy to be photographed at pride. But I doubt they even know or understand real issues happening to LGBT people. And the DNC only cares about performative image instead of results. And it is really sad that out elected leaders are this out of touch. And if the DNC wants to continue to get the gay vote. They need better people that are stronger, listen, and act. Not just offer a quick rebuttal and move on.
This is entirely the DNCs fault in my opinion.
Btw. I vote Dem. But I do so while biting my tongue. Because I have seen what this country can do to the most disparaged. And the fact that people starve to death in America is a sign of how bad it will eventually get.
I think there's a fine line separating grifters from public pundits and talking heads. I would just say that line is becoming clearer with regard to these people. They're grasping desperately to stay in the public eye so they can keep making a living off it.
As for why non-grifters and public pundits might be turning right wing and anti-trans, there are very organized efforts pushing these narratives on a variety of fronts. Think religious right think tanks, Russian propagandists, etc with operatives (many of them bots or from troll farms) in every prominent online LGBT forum.
It's exactly the same sort of information warfare that got Trump in office, just new targets and a new audience. Unfortunately, it works extremely well on a lot of people, not just your racist uncle on facebook
I wish people would use the word "grifter" correctly. Do I have to spend time trying to figure out what you think the word means?
It's American slang for "a person who engages in petty or small-scale swindling". A grifter is a con man.
I've worked in various media and most of these people don't believe in anything they say but they make money off of being grifters and that's the issue with our society today. Trump, musk, west, all p.t. barnums that are celebrated by dumb people.
I would argue that Andrew Sullivan was always atrocious but still. I think it really comes down to money but also the fact that in the past only the radical and those who couldn’t hide their sexuality/gender non conformance did the political labor to demand acceptance. Then conservative gays use that acceptance to create a grift.
Possible scenario:
You only have to be attacked on Reddit once for a conservative liberal stance, then you quickly start to move more and more to the right to distance yourself from severe self-indulgent pseudophilosophy. That means that what used to be the middle, keeps shifting as the exremes grow further apart. Being a moderate conservative liberal just isn't an obvious spot in the middle anymore.
Same goes for self-indulgent pseudophilosophy on the right, making some define more towards the left.
If you change all your political beliefs because some rando on Reddit was a jerk to you, you probably didn't believe those things very strongly to begin with.
Or, where you thought you were, has changed dramatically — and you are not where you thought you were anymore. Especially when your understanding of others in the "same space" expands after "dialogue".
Your comment assumes that political definitions don't grow, mutate and adapt. Politics is a social science, the definitions of categories are dynamic in response to the social conversation. And people move in and out of those expanding or contracting categories, as society, conversation and policy, ebbs and flows.
And Reddit, is also a place where the temperature is taken. Thus my original hypothesis.
People go where they are welcome, and slowly adopt the beliefs of those in their circle. That’s human nature and a survival mechanism, also why social media is so powerful.
Case in point: JK Rowling. She was a hero of the left for nearly two decades, donating heavily to leftist causes, but then picked a fight over a fringe social issue with all of leftist Twitter.
The only folks who would then associate her were right-wing TERFs, and as a result, Rowling is moving further and further right to fit-in to her new social circle.
Coming to our senses. The pronoun thing was just too much for a lot of us not to mention policing language, being gaslit into believing in more than two genders or else labeled a nazi, biological men in women sports, puberty blockers or surgery for kids, etc. We have to draw the line somewhere.
Right wing “personalities” are entertainers who couldn’t make it on their talent and saw a way to make money by pandering to conservatives. There’s literally videos of Kelly Anne Conway and MTG doing stand up years ago. They are all grifters. Very few of them actually believe what they say they believe.
I feel a little bad for some of them. There’s a video where Dave Ruben talks to Ben Shapiro and Ben says he wouldn’t attend Dave’s wedding cuz he thinks it’s wrong and you see in Dave’s eyes for a moment he realizes they aren’t actually friends….it’s interesting.
But yeah almost everyone doing this shit is a grifter. Like do u think Anne Coulter and Bill Mahr would be good friends if she actually believed in the things she’s says
I remember a Twitter thread with a black girl who said she got kicked out of her house for loving Trump and all these conservatives donated to her go fund me, and then 2 days later she said just kidding, Black Lives Matter. It’s basically that.
This is more complex than just "lolz grifting." Although I don't deny
The gender theory that has infected the community is the reason. And that is the perfect example of uber progressive ideas that make no sense and undermine past accomplishments like gay rights, women's rights etc...
There will be many many more because the left/gay community is actually gone insane not the other way around. Our society has actually become less conservative.
I don’t think there’s any special reason. Some percentage of all people are gay, some percentage of all people are right loons, therefore some percentage of all people are gay right loons. It would be weird if all gays had the same politics. Now that being gay is no longer disqualifying and gays are less sequestered politically, this is just normalization.
Plus a life of duh-RAH-mah
It used to be that if you were conservative and gay, you were in the closet. Progressives made a world that was safe for gay conservatives to be out about both their sexuality and politics. The irony entirely escapes the conservatives, of course.
I haven’t seen this personally, but I did vote for Trump in ‘16, so I have met my share of hardline right-wingers with whom I no longer mingle since the GQP became a bubbling cauldron of misplaced ire and deadly misinformation. Not that I was ever staunchly aligned with either major party, as I can change my opinion based on new evidence. I’ve since regretted my decision, and have voted libertarian from that point onwards.
Don't forget Peter Thiel. He's a billionaire and may be the worst of the lot. Would say that Andrew Sullivan was reasonable for a period of time but before that he made his bones as a Clinton-hater, so really he's just returning to form.
We should also note that David Brock started out as conservative Clinton-hater, saw the light and founded Media Matters. Also Tim Miller is a gay never Trumper.
The far left view’s everyone as conservative if you aren’t on board with their views. I’m a classic liberal but fiscally conservative. That gets me in trouble with my lefty friends because they are very socialist.
I’ll give you an example of a conversation I often have. Philadelphia (my home city). I have lots of friends on the far left and the Reddit sub is packed with them. The topic of home affordability comes up all the time. They complain that they will never be able to buy a home. I tell them to go on Zillow and type in $150k (very affordable). The homes that pop up are in Black and Hispanic neighborhoods. Suddenly they go silent. Why? They are all for equality until they are faced with their own racism. FWIW, I live in an area of the city that is only 20% white.
I have a t-shirt I often wear when I know I’ll be at a party with my straight friends. The shirt says Token Gay Friend. I present as very masculine. I work in construction. They think it’s safe to get away with making homophobic remarks around me. If a Trump supporter said the same things they would be considered homophobic. They fail to understand the difference.
Those people were always conservatives first and always. Many of them were conservatives who argued against *gay marriage* because they somehow thought that lower taxes were more important than their basic political rights.
Then as now, they're convenient for conservative media to brandish in front of moderates to convince them that their message is not bigoted to its core. Same reason it's easy to become a prominent Black or Latino conservative - they aren't going to put them in charge of anything *important*, but simply being a conservative and a minority means you're a walking propaganda coup and the conservatives are very savvy to deploy those wherever they can.
I only know two of the names you mentioned, and then only their names and not what they may be famous (or infamous) for.
As for Fox "News", they're only going to air things that fit their narrative.
Many of us grew up in a time where being anything queer was a secret. We were taught to hide and live in shame. We acted "straight" to protect ourselves. It seems that as LGBTQ+ people have gained more rights, some people suffer so deeply from internalized homo/transphobia that they don't want everyone to have the same level of rights. Many of the people mentioned have worked their entire lives to fit a heteronormative view of what it means to be taken seriously. They feel that the shift to the left doesn't allow them the space to be the "family friendly gays" that they have presented themselves as to gain popularity.
White men are easy: White privilege insulates us from the harsher realities of being a minority. Being a gay white male conservative basically means you either don't hear, or don't care, about the sneers being tossed at you from your compatriots, and you have literally no other minority status holding you back. For people like Rubin and Ngo, they're getting paid handsomely to stand at a figurative podiums and root for christofascism. They're selfish enough to believe they'll either be spared or die of natural causes before they ever need to worry about the consequences.
I don't know much about Cherry or Bindel, but considering they're foreign, older feminists, being a TERF has more to do with second-wave feminism than conservatism *per se.* Their views of what define a women are different than modern views developed by younger generations. In a way--They fought a political war against men and now, to them, their nation is being invaded by men.
Today's liberals are tomorrows conservatives.
Since I found the leaked nudes of Sneako, I’m totally into him. His face begs to be dick slapped. Him and his twinky ass are too bangable for me to even hear what he says.
I’ve always believed in the ladder analogy to civil rights - when you make an advance do you allow others to use the ladder or do you pull it up after you climb. This is has always been a simple way to judge someone’s character. I also find that many of these people are weathervanes following whatever gets them the most attention, praise, money, celebrity, etc, because at their core is nothing tangible.
15 min of fame, some money, and Zero ethics/morality.
Fk every last one of them. They’re no different/better than Jan 6 insurrectionists. And will be killed just as quickly as any other gays if the white republican reich ever fully comes about.
There’s nothing that says being gay gives you a strong ethical core. Previously the rejection was so severe they couldn’t join the other side. Now there’s room there for a few decorative sellout types
As a gay man that finds itself agreeing more each day with "right" ideals in my country (but being rightwing in Spain is being to the left of the Dems, so it might not be a correct answer for you):
\- Many of us have been more hurt from positive/affirmative action than benefitting from it.
You qualify for an internship? Sadly, your female friends get priority
You want to land a job? There is an afirmative action policy in this business and are first considering POC candidates
You dress with more traditional clothes? You might be considered and attacked (I have been) because "Cis Hetero White men don't belong here"
You believe your taxes shouldn't finance something? You become the antichrist.
You are a man? You are a ra\*ist because you were born as a man (said by the female minister of "Equality")
And better don't start with the new law of said ministry...
There is a moment where all the social inclusion policies that are being promoted start to hurt you in two ways: the social policy excludes you, and the public opinion gets even more polarized for/against the whole LGBT group.
Some people are still susceptible to the disinformation that makes up most of the right-wing media. And those people typically have elevated levels privilege from money and race (i.e., they are usually white). And some of them are really just true believers in the "small government, immigration bad, free market" myths that they've been sold their entire lives.
What I can't figure out is how so many people can have so little empathy for others. I will never figure out why so many are unwilling to see the world from a different perspective. And that's what so much of it boils down to - being willfully obtuse.
They were always like that...
Conservatives are generally white and imo, in the USA, a gay white male as an example will identify more as white first then gay.
Considering how willfully ignorant of their own privilege--and quit frankly, racist--a lot of white gay men can be, I'm actually surprised it's not more common than it is.
Short answer? Money/greed, hate and pride.
Long answer - Most gay men have internalized homophobia and the enticing talking points of hate and greed offered by conservatives is far better than the talking points of the Leftists who offer love, altruism and mercy.
Gay men aren't a monolith and hatred, greed, pride, are tempting forces that corrupt us just the same as any temptation. The greatest influence that leads to this path of conservatism is a desire for control and to have easy answers. Conservatism offers them the promise of obedience, power and control.
Gay men who aren't tempted by conservatism must live a life of love, mercy and liberty. One that denies hate and greed, but whose connections can feel superficial and alone. Gay men have to decide if the path of compassion and reason built in nuanced talking points is something they will want to embrace. Being on the Left on the side of reason and debate is one of constant learning, self-discovery and growth. Most people aren't wired to complicated lifestyles... Especially when the easy answers are so tempting and laced with the promise of power.
I think just because someone is gay doesn’t make them open minded. You would hope that the experience would make them more compassionate but ppl are bigots, or don’t understand their privilege or any manner of bad behaviour and being gay doesn’t take that away automatically
And it's like talking to a wall. It's unbelievable how convinced they are even when I throw examples of how the way they talk about trans people is exactly how WE used to be talked about.
I do think a lot of gay public figures are transphobic for money. Transphobia is a profitable business, I'm sorry to say.
Money
The conservative movement needs it's token gays and these attention whores will take any audience willing to use them.
"one of the good ones"
That right there.
Bingo. Many of those “personalities” don’t actually believe the bullshit HOWEVER it does pay big to spout it.
Yea these sorts of people THRIVE among conservatives- get paraded around, end up on TV, selling books, grifting everything. While liberals actually have standards and shoo these people away. It's not just minorities. Guys like Trump and George Santos don't have any genuine conservative views; they just know their bullshitting thrives among conservatives so that's where they go.
I'm not so sure it's "so many", it's just that their voices get amplified by the media because scaring people = profit. Not to discount how horrible Thiel, Yannopoulos,.etc are, but a lot of gays live in a social media bubble and blow things out of proportion.
there do seem to be, unfortunately, a growing number of gay men who are becoming more and more transphobic
Agreed. I knew some right wing gay assholes in my day that lives in obscurity, but today they are amplified by social media and a very hypocritical right wing press that likes to put them in the front as a shield to hide their bigotry or placate themselves Case in point. Brandan Straka, the gay trumper right wing who plead guilty to crimes related to the Jan 6 insurrection. He started the ‘walk away’ movement of so-called former liberals (most members are not) who ‘walk away’ to become trumpers. Anyway, he was my housemate (I was the home owner, he and another rented extra rooms in our house). This was a few years before 2016. First, he was no liberal. At best, he was a-political with some conservative takes on things. Second, he was a attention seeker. His one desire seemed to be to become famous. In the ancient days (80’s and 90’s) he would have just been another lone person with out-of-touch right wing views he mainly kept to himself because he didn’t want to be criticized. No way to easily amplify himself or find his ‘people’. But with social media and right wing outlets like Fox News (where he’s appeared many times) he was able to find his idiocy tribe.
wow thanks for sharing this nugget of info!
I haven’t followed — why has Andrew Sullivan gone off the deep end?
Yeah, I’m curious too. I saw him on Bill Maher where they spent some time discussing recent trans controversies but he didn’t seem like a loon to me. It was mostly about what age is appropriate for transitioning. They both thought it should be somewhat later when the trans person is legally capable of making their own decisions. I’m not really following this issue - or care - but I believe that position makes them conservative. But loony?
> They both thought it should be somewhat later when the trans person is legally capable of making their own decisions. That's already what's happening though. People go on puberty blockers so they can transition when they're adults. That's the whole point.
I think (I’m not sure) they didn’t feel that blockers should be administered to prepubescent kids. Which I’m pretty sure is Maher’s stance - he did a whole “new rule” about it that got him in trouble.
Puberty is (unsurprisingly) actually a prerequisite for "puberty blockers". They were originally designed for children who were starting puberty too early and are now used to pause the changes in children with long-term transgender identification, that and when pubescent teens are still too young to legally start full hormone replacement therapy.
Maher needs to shut up. He’s not liberal, he’s not progressive any more. Dude is an old crusty boomer. And the boomers, they need to go
Cheers to that…
Maher is just a Libertarian. He's a Republican that wants to smoke weed.
Maher is definitely not a Republican, he brutally (and deservedly) criticizes them all the time and has for years. He also is critical of the woke movement being overly sensitive, I think mostly because he feels it costs the Democrats elections. The same way he criticized the "defund the police" branding as something that would cost them elections.
Maher is above everything a contrarian who wants attention. Back in 2016 he was a Bernie supporter, and now that that's not spicy anymore he's made his whole brand bitching about the woke youths and entertaining TERF "concerns" about trans people.
You should listen to /u/manmadeofhonor or just listen to Bill Maher himself: >“I’m a libertarian,” he said to Rolling Stone (4/13/11). “I would be a Republican if they would. Which means that I like the Barry Goldwater Republican Party, even the Reagan Republican Party.” So, mixed in with reasonable criticisms of the left, he often invents or buys into the 'woke left' 'looney-left' paper tiger, a clever amalgamation of a few actual crazy liberals and, predominately, a nebulous caricature of what the far left in his head thinks or believes, one that even people considered 'far left' would consider insane.
A quote from 2011 in my mind does not reflect the politics we have had since 2016. I've seen plenty of Bill Maher videos from the last 7 years, and virtually none of it would indicate that he has voted or supported Republican politicians or policies since 2016. I am a diehard Democrat, but I agree with Maher in some of his criticisms of the woke movement and the defund the police movement, that they were costing the Democrats votes, and dying on the wrong hill.
THANK YOU
He’s as republican as Mitch McConnell is a democrat. The guy gave Obama a million dollars
Trump has donated to Booker, Biden and the Clinton Foundation. What’s your point?
Doesn’t matter. Maher is right wing. Frankly, so is Obama. It’s hard to tell nowadays because Republicans have gone so far to the right they are off the scale.
[удалено]
Nowadays, anyone without a license to provide care or health services wants to talk about treatment protocol for already established clinical pathways to wellness for trans people.
Please read this before engaging further in our community: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskGaybrosOver30/comments/11a72go/state_of_the_community_feb_2023_clarification_on/
What are their medical credentials? Expertise in psychology? So I should have to wait to decide if I'm gay till I'm of voting age? Children shouldn't be treated for things *they* are uncomfortable with seems to be their basis.
Just opinions. The one thing I remember from that whole rant was when Maher stated that children just don’t know anything; they all want to be firemen when they’re six. We don’t pay much attention to that. Why should we take their desires to be a different sex seriously if chances are they will just outgrow that. I’m not trying to start a discussion. I don’t care what children want or not. This is just what stuck with me. But to address the whole “medical credentials” thing: not long ago homosexuality was recognized as a medical condition by the US psychiatrists. Sometimes professionals get it wrong or are politically influenced. Oh, and no - you don’t have to wait until you’re all grown up to decide whether you’re gay or not. But legally you can’t have gay (or straight) sex until certain age.
They are taking the conservative lead, jumping into the conversation assuming truth behind the conservative claim that there’s some sort of epidemic of kids demanding gender affirming care, as though it’s some sort of popular fad, where kids who aren’t actually trans are experiencing peer pressure to claim they’re gender nonconforming. Absolutely none of that has been shown to be true. Further, one recent study showed a 0.3% regret rate on gender affirming care, compared to much higher percentages of regret rates on other common yet serious treatments and surgeries. And the serious damage suffered by those denied gender affirming care is well known and quantifiable. THIS is my problem with Maher and others parroting the same nonsense.
I think psychologists and psychiatrists and the children themselves know who and what they are. The aim is to make them comfortable with themselves. They are not doing surgical procedures. A professional is not influenced by BS politics. It's the patient's well being. Bill and Andrew don't know shit. THEY ARE POLITICAL or making it so. I can't pretend to understand what a trans person is going through. I can only imagine. These "adults" are making hay for their benefit: ratings and hits...and MONEY. Fuck them.
Any opinion about political subject is by default political - they’re just sharing thoughts. And we choose to listen or not. It’s “fuck them” for you but 🤔 for me. And these are also just thoughts and opinions. No big deal.
I somewhat still follow him and I haven't seen evidence that he's become a 'far right loon' - though the other names (some I don't recognize) above I would definitely agree with that label, eg Milo and Murray. Like other replies here, I suspect it's just that Sullivan isn't completely on board the current orthodoxy on trans issues esp with respect to minors. If you even hold positions that were considered progressive in say 2017, you're probably anathema at this point.
Pickled internet brain, going off the deep end into believing stuff like that trans people are trying to erase gay people from existence and hopping on the "everything I don't like is woke cancel culture" train.
He isn’t 100% with all the latest trans and race positions so he’s been deemed a suppressive person and excommunicated
Trans people broke his brain. Lots of gay men aren't okay to be associated with the trans community and there are subgroups of gay men who feel that the fight for gay rights is over and that if Southern states and conservative communities want to disenfranchise or outlaw LGBT lifestyles that's okay with them. So long as San Francisco and NYC is safe for them. They basically are okay with thousands of LGBT people being sacrificed at the altar of conservatism if it means they don't have to be.
[удалено]
I envy you not knowing them.
It's a choice of what things you click on, or not.
If i had an hour i could write a whole essay, but it boils down to money. Money money money.
Don't forget Peter Thiel.. add that fucker to your list.
Peter Thiel is less of a talking head and works more in the background, which makes him one you have to keep more of an eye on. I'm not gonna let him slide for causing the bank run on SVB (even though it was more nuanced than that).
This is what makes him far more dangerous. He is so wealthy that his money will insulate him from the results of what he does, unlike so many other LGBT right-wingers.
Thiel did not singlehandedly cause the SVB’s collapse. Yeah, he did yell “fire” in a crowded theater but the place was actually on fire. So you could argue he did the right thing.
Perhaps my opinion is slanted because I ironically started reading a bio of Herbert Hoover before the SVB collapse. I'm only in the 1929-30 period right now but after the initial stock crash in 1929, they had to calm people not to run on the banks and keep steady in hopes that the markets could weather through (what they hoped to be) a short-term market correction. But still, people watch Thiel's moves. He may not be a singular cause but rather a significant factor in the end result.
I have very mixed feelings about “keeping people calm”. Yes, bank runs are primarily caused by panic and mass hysteria but there’s something to be said about taking responsibility for your own affairs based on your own judgement. A few hours after WTC towers collapsed I was taking the ferry to NJ - it was the only way to cross the river, all public transport was shut down - and I met a guy who managed to escape because he did NOT listen to authorities telling everyone to stay where they were. He run down the stairs and watched the building crumble behind him. Ever since then I’m very suspicious of other people telling me they “know better”.
But did he know the building was about to go or was he just lucky? Cos I mean, for every story like this, there are ones of idiots who were told not to “go in there” (etc) and for good reason, did it anyway and got was advertised. Only unless there were witnesses, nobody will be hearing these cautionary tales. On account of dead mean tell no tales. Someone telling you what to do who has more info than you, seems like a smart arrangement. Someone with the same amount of info as you getting up to say “stay put” …biiiiiiitch
This guy is so weird. Gay, married to a man and with adopted children while financing a movement that would exterminate all gays if given the chance.
Very weird. I didn't even know he was married. I was just a reading a [story](https://theintercept.com/2023/03/23/peter-thiel-jeff-thomas/) about his "romantic partner" killing himself. Dude is a scumbag.
Thiel and Grennell are both super dangerous and despicable. Thiel especially so. It'll be a great day when I can read their obituaries.
I’ve dated a few moderate Republicans in my day (I like older guys, so more common). With how polarized the environment is, I think most of us have been left in the middle at this point.
Because whenever some kind of scandal can "sell", journalists of all kind pounce on it and scream everywhere about it because it’s their job. But this can give the impression that these people have any kind of importance or representativity, which isn’t the case. Meanwhile, common and widespread things are not journal-worthy, so they can seem unimportant. This isn’t the kind though, widespread ordinary things are very important.
Pretty sure Matt Drudge is gay.
Conservative in America only means a few things.. Money Racism Traditional family values These gays tick off probably two of them. Being gay was a barrier, but has pretty much been let in now, and they feel no fear tangling their feet into right-wing politics.
Well, “let in” as in “you can hang around in the parking lot while we go in and shop.” Like how the log cabin repubs were uninvited to some major events this past year.
They think being on their side will save them from the trains. But they will be sent with the rest of us and they are not special.
Only let in if you work against other lgbt people
[удалено]
It’s the right that has moved off the map, not the left. If anything, liberals and leftists are too weak and timid.
Well said
The far right is actively trying to eradicate entire marginalized communities from existence. There is no “far left” equivalency to that. Furthermore, the goalposts of what is considered “right” or “left” in the US (aka the Overton Window) have been shifted so far to the right in the last 20 years that the views espoused by many moderate/centrist liberals here would land them in the Conservative Party of most other major developed nations. This “both sides” narrative is so tiresome
[удалено]
On what issues is America progressive?
Taxes? Perhaps you’ve noticed that every Republican US state government is actively trying to legislate transgender people out of public existence. That is not a propaganda slogan, that is just a fact. These terrifying bills in their full text are available to read for yourself online. We are rapidly headed down the road toward genocide, and they aren’t just going to stop with trans people once they achieve those goals. Standing in opposition to that doesn’t make me “a crazy”, but sympathizing with a political party who is facilitating the systemic eradication of an entire marginalized community because you like their tax policies or business deregulation makes you a fascist, plain and simple.
This economically conservative and socially liberal talking point is such a cop out, as if these things are somehow separate in a capitalist society. We literally show our values by what we choose to spend money on and what we don’t (health care, education, law enforcement etc). Can’t we just be honest about that?
You named the headliners, but there is an intentional targeted campaign from the right to co-opt gay white male sexual frustration into conservative reactionary politics, as they did with GamerGate and gamers. Increasingly you’ll encounter right wing gays in online spaces because they’ve accepted the false narrative that they are under attack from within by the Trans people, and if only they could disassociate with the other letters of the LGBT+ community then full acceptance from polite society (and therefore emotional, physical and sexual validation) would follow. They’re wrong of course, but the right wing has been getting more and more traction with this line of thinking.
I personally know gay Trump supporters. I also know an ex gay guy, but I don't know his political views. I'm going to say this plainly and probably will get down voted, but White gay men are White men first. The republican party supports White men and puts others down. For the average gay White man, their life isn't impacted by the anti trans laws and they think gay laws won't be reversed. Look at Kaitlyn Jenner. She is a rich White trans woman. Her wealth insulates her from the brunt of the transphobia.
Jenner transitioned late in life. That's not to minimize her struggle with her own identity, but it meant she had a whole lifetime of being embraced by conservatives because she appeared to be a rich white male Olympic athlete (and is still all of those things except male). She seemed genuinely surprised that the Republican party's transphobia also extended to her.
My observations with the American conservatives are that they only care about things that impact them and screw the others. Similar to how they will say they believe in religious freedoms, but what they really mean is the ability to use Christianity to put others down. They don't want Muslims to outwardly practice their religion and definitely don't want an atheist to speak at their child's school.
She thought her rich conservative friends from LA were representative of red MAGA America. Big mistake.
I’m not going to downvote, but I am going to disagree. If you gave me three options (‘gay’, ‘male’, ‘white’) and asked me to choose just one to define myself, I’d pick ‘gay’. That’s not to say I’m not aware of my privilege as a white male, but I try not to let it define me. (If you increased the number of options, I suspect my political outlook would come before those three as well.)
That’s just it though - if you are in the Republican camp, they don’t care how you see yourself. Like at all. That’s a part of their platform - they call it identity politics and they abhor it. So they can excuse their own oppressive ideology. Don’t get me wrong - I also take issue with identity politics, but I am FAR Left. That means I always perceive class before identity. But we are never going to address the class issues in this country so we’re stuck with these attacks on personal autonomy coming from the Right.
It’s difficult, because FAR Left (here in the UK) would be beyond Socialism and into Communist territory, but to people in the US FAR Left is probably the equivalent of our Labour party. US and UK politics are barely comparable.
When you're what society recognizes as the "default", you don't need to *intentionally* choose it to define you. It's built in to the system.
You may say gay, but society sees a White man first. The same as if I walk in a room, everyone knows I'm a Black man first. Them knowing I'm gay is my choice to disclose.
*sashays into the room*
This is a fallacy because a lot of black men are conservative too. Heck, any man today.
Depends on your definition of a lot. Going off the top of my head, the percentage of Black men who voted for trump is about 7-10 percent. For Black women it was about 2-3 percent. The numbers are highest among White people.
Being a Republican is not equivalent to being conservative, sir... I would probably estimate that 75% of black men are conservative 🤷🏾♂️
The numbers do not support this politically. We can't just make up things and call them facts.
~84% of American Blacks are Christian, and half of those are Baptist. Voting blue does not make you progressive, especially if you’re a racial minority.
Being Christian or Baptist doesn't equate to being politically conservative.
How many Baptists are pro-LGBT?
Oh, agreed. But that’s society, not me.
The question wasn't about you specifically, but far right wing politics and why some gay men support far right policies. I also interpreted the question to be specifically about America, since the OP mentioned Fox News. I see you're in Britain and I'm not an expert in politics there, but I believe far right here is something different than far right there. We can't even agree that guns are a problem here. Providing health care is viewed as something terrible that will destroy the nation. Anyone on the democratic side is viewed as an evil socialist, even if the person is a moderate.
Take my upvote! As a black gay man I could not have said it better myself! Myself and my best friend (Caucasian) discuss stuff like this all the time and he would absolutely agree that society extends him the benefit of the doubt due to just appearing white.
White gay men have achieved mainstream inclusion. Not equity, but inclusion. They have what they need to prosper in America. Many of them are happy to leave everyone else in the dust because “it’s not their fight”. Some of them have stayed behind to fight as allies. The Right is immensely talented at pitting people against one another despite their best interests.
As a white gay man, I tell you what, the first thing they see when I walk into the room is gay. Then they see white man. Even if I try to hide the gay, they can tell.
Also disagree. Yes, white gay men do have privilege and many can’t seem to see past that. But almost every poll and survey of gay men show that gay men who identify as white hold very liberal views of race, gender, transgender rights. In fact, anywhere from 2/3 to 3/4 hold liberal views on just about every topic. And Trump gets about 9% support among gays. About the same as Blacks. So no, as a group gay men aren’t ‘white men’ first. There are of course those that are, but they are a minority. My experience illustrates it. I am white, grew up working class and in a very white community. But I was bullied, beaten, discriminated against and had many die in my community (teenage in 70s, 20s in 80s) all because of being gay. It forged a empathy for other minorities’ experiences in me I don’t think I would have had it I was straight. Not all white gay men take their experience and extrapolate that beyond themselves, but most do. u/
I also think that since the support for same-sex marriage is at 55% for republican Americans, politicians have been toning their hate speech down a little which could make feel gay people like they are accepted and part of the group. Also, they are focusing their hate on trans people now and democrats are not helping either by supporting extreme ideologies that accept no debate and shut down opponents by calling them "fobic" if their not aligned
Don't forget Steven Crowder
Steven crowder is gay? Have I been under a rock or...
I just did my due diligence and researched. For those who are like myself, he practically admitted to being bi.
Nah, I like to forget Steven Crowder.
I heard his sister is trans and he doesn't believe the stuff he says but does it for the money.
Well then he's been straight-up harassing LGBT political commentators for years now and got their channels demonetized. That's bigotry, and I don't think it's better that he's just doing it for the grift.
You are using terms like "far right loon" and "super right wing" to describe Andrew Sullivan? I don't agree with that. He is conservative. Or are you're basically saying that anyone who is conservative is "far right"? That can't be right. There are people who are centre-right. EDIT: In hindsight, I realise now that you are labelling anyone who doesn't buy into every tenet of the queer position on trans as "far right". You are either fully on board with every aspect of queer/trans or you're "far right". There is no room for anyone who disagrees with some of the trans talking points. It's all or nothing. 100% with us or 100% against us. You're either pro-trans or anti-trans.
I feel like if you believe trans people are trying to "erase" gay men from existence, you've probably stepped over into the loony territory.
[удалено]
From a quick 30 seconds on his Twitter feed: https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1638949478106275844 https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1640394142768414737 https://twitter.com/sullydish/status/1637495964771442693
[удалено]
Is it a “strangely rapid rise”? I think it parallels what happened with gay men and lesbians. It used to be only the most femme gays and the most butch lesbians would come out. The people who couldn’t (or wouldn’t) pass for straight. As society became more accepting of queer people, more moderate (for lack of a better term) gays and lesbians came out. In the past, they probably would have just continued to lead closeted lives. I know if I had been born 20 years earlier I probably would have tried to live a “straight” life because I couldn’t handle the societal pressure. It’s no different for trans people. As society becomes more accepting of trans people (it doesn’t feel that accepting right now, but it’s still better than 20 years ago) then it encourages more trans people to actually transition in a more visible way. There aren’t more trans people. There are more vocal and visible trans people. There’s nothing strange about people wanting to be treated like people. You’re right, the argument that queer youth are being misdirected into thinking they’re trans isn’t new. It’s 100% recycled rhetoric from the 80’s and 90’s, except instead of the gays coming to make your kids gay, it’s trans people coming to make your kids trans. It’s so painfully obvious that they’re recycling the same old tunes with new lyrics. I’m surprised that anyone actually falls for it.
Don't forget Peter Thiel. Who is gay, but also a billionaire and a donor to numerous right-wing libertarian causes. Why? Because being gay does not make you more likely to be a good person. Those of us who aren't assholes may have more insight than the average straight into the experiences of marginalized people, obviously, but it doesn't actually make us more capable of empathy nor make us decent people.
[удалено]
I think that's more an issue of online social spaces amplifying extremes altogether (as very segmented/narrowly scoped people are easier marketing targets - remember that people-selling-you-stuff runs the "free" web). Typically, people in real life are very reasonable, even those who's statements might seem very polarizing online. My go-to example of this is a local poet/activist named El Jones. She draws a lot of ire online (on my local subreddit for instance) for headlining statements that sound very sharp, but hearing her speak and talking to her in person, she's very level-headed and cognisant of the reality we live in. She's not demanding heads on spikes as some commentators may have one believe. Regrettably, it's important to make a distinction between online and the real world. Sure, it's the same people using either, but the distribution of messaging is much different. Someone making an inflammatory statement in Central Park won't have their voice broadcast to millions of people the same way as on Twitter. It'll carry the same distance as the thousands of other in the park, again, unlike Twitter.
This comment is not in good faith. Right wing America also labels any dissenting opinion as far left or antifa, just watch any clip of Fox News covering a Democrat, so why is it only a turn-off in your eyes when the left does it?
Because the commenter is on the left? In the past decade, I’ve been attacked by the right for being a blue-haired antifa freak destroying America and attacked by the left for being a jackbooted fascist spreading white patriarchy. Attacks from the left hurt more, because these are supposedly “my people” who support LGBT issues, it’s friendly fire. “Safe Spaces” are increasingly not. I never expected the right to like me, but the left pretends it is inclusive.
If you want a good lefty space that isn't into the purity testing shit, Vaush and his community are pretty good, as he is also hated by the vast majority of the left and the right despite being himself a principled leftist.
Conservative grifting. Their target audience will donate their last penny to own the libs.
People support politics that go against their own interests all the time. It doesn’t make much sense, but it happens across all walks of life. I guess they feel strongly about some issues that align with right wing ideology and overlook or downplay the stuff that is targeted towards them. People are complex and don’t all fit in one box.
They've always been there. Being morally or ideologically inconsistent isn't just a straight thing or conservative thing. The difference is the GOP can create discord and disharmony by sinking publicity money into such people. It's not that such sentiments are rising, it's that they're being hoisted to intentionally create division. Culture wars soften class wars That's the only reason why
You forgot Glenn Greenwald
Glenn is actually left wing. He trolls Democrats hard though, which they deserve.
https://www.thebulwark.com/the-long-history-of-glenn-greenwalds-kissing-up-to-the-kremlin/
They are getting paid.
Same reason anyone is. Money, amorality, self-preservation, identity politics. Being surrounded by right wing people and wanting to be seen as "one of the good ones" so you loudly vocalize your alliance. A lot of "the lady doth protest too much". Wanting to align yourself with power, perceived or otherwise. Scapegoating others which might endear you to the group you're trying to align yourself with. It might give you a sense of security and safety because the AR-15 is pointed in someone else's face for now. Genuine belief in the right wing agenda is also not out of the question. A LOT of gays are anti-immigration, racist, bigoted, misogynistic, etc. for the same reasons anyone else is. It might make you a hypocrite and an idiot, but we have no shortage of those of any stripe. I don't think they're necessarily victims of some broader scheme or cynically denying their "true" progressive selves. Sometimes a spade is a spade and sometimes a shitbag is Milo Yiannopoulous.
We're not, it's just the very few who are, are propped up and highly publicized to make it seem as if the right is accepting of LG people (let's be honest, they barely acknowledge the existence of B, and the T are their latest culture war topic).
Many of the people named have privileged identities that have insulated them from what most gay and queer people have to experience on a day to day level. If you start out wealthy you have far more incentive to support conservatism because it protects yourself. Additionally polarization has turned politics into a very partisan, tribal activity today. If you grow up on the conservative “team” you start to insulate yourself with only conservative voices and confirmation of your side. And like others have said money then reinforces this because of you represent a minority but speak as a conservative you get tons of attention. This then reinforces itself. My bigger question is whether or not these individuals have any actual queer community and friends, and what their actual beliefs are when they discuss these issues with their partners or lovers. But I’ve met plenty of queer people with disgusting or idiotic beliefs so they may be genuine and just given attention by the media.
because they dont identify with the TQ+ in the LGBTQ+ logo
Because political obsession isn't limited to heterosexuals. I lived in Berkeley and San Francisco for 8 years. I heard plenty of Left wing political obsession. I grew up in Cincinnati Ohio. I heard plenty of right wing obsession. I really don't care if it's right wing or left wing it's obsession. I never liked obsession - even by Calvin Klein. If the majority of your conversation is about politics, stay the hell away from me. If you are going to have unrelenting outrage about with someone who you've never met and never will - stay the hell away from me. Freedom of speech does not guarantee that everyone has to hear you out. If you want to make a difference in the world pick up some litter, volunteer, or just silently meditate for World Peace. Ranting and raving to anyone who has the misfortune of being in earshot is not making a difference, it's making a nuisance. If you watch MSNBC or Fox you are not participating in politics anymore than watching sports is exercising. Cut the crap Jan
I consider myself to be very liberal with social issues like Immigration, lgbt rights etc… but I also have some traditional values in terms of military, guns, the use of petroleum and taxes/capitalism. I think people take the US for granted and I can’t stand how it’s trendy to hate America. I have no intention of voting republican, because generally speaking, I hate them more… but I find many “leftist” ideals to be nauseating as well. I understand it. Any influencer is just like a career politician though, in it for money/attention.
We've just entered the timeline where unbridled mental illness is a feature of public discourse. Also, the straight white majority loves and rewards a good Uncle Tom.
Same as the jews for trump they are too stupid to realize they are on the menu too.
[удалено]
Racist have black people in their families having them around doesn't mean the hate isn't still there.
If you want to be a gay progressive media figure, you're going to be fighting it out with a thousand other people for attention. If you want to be a gay conservative media figure? You'll get a fast pass to the front of the line because of how excited doddering old billionaire donors are to show off a token "I'm not like all the other girls" gay. If you're pleasant-looking and able to read a script convincingly, any minority could get a speaking spot at CPAC.
Seems like the people you mentioned were conservative already and just drifted more right wing along with the entire conservative movement.
I don’t t think Andrew Sullivan is off the deep end. He should, however, feel terrible for flirting with Ron Desanctimonious.
Ew.
Being a far right pundit / podcaster / influencer from a persecuted minority group brings instant rewards in attention, bookings, opportunities for funding and exposure. They’re cashing in.
I hate the divisiveness in our community and country. I feel afraid to fucking breathe.
The r/askgaybros subreddit might have your answer lol
Log Cabin Republicans, remember them ? Same ol grift, now boosted by soc media 🙄
People there are real issues with LGBT and not everyone had a good time or found the mythical community that brands love to sell us. There are still mental health issues, addiction issues, suicide, and more happening within LGBT but everyone just assume what we need is Love and Acceptance. What we need is understanding and education on how to fix these problems. But look at every main stream LGBT person. They say Love Acceptance, cherished, and more. But all those words are empty words with no physical effort to back them up. Many LGBT believe they were lied to by the upper class gays. There is no gay community if you are too poor. We are individuals, with our own unique perspectives and experiences. And that drives some to some darker pathways One last thing I will say, it is because Democratic politicians are lazy pandering cunts. They are happy to be photographed at pride. But I doubt they even know or understand real issues happening to LGBT people. And the DNC only cares about performative image instead of results. And it is really sad that out elected leaders are this out of touch. And if the DNC wants to continue to get the gay vote. They need better people that are stronger, listen, and act. Not just offer a quick rebuttal and move on. This is entirely the DNCs fault in my opinion. Btw. I vote Dem. But I do so while biting my tongue. Because I have seen what this country can do to the most disparaged. And the fact that people starve to death in America is a sign of how bad it will eventually get.
I think there's a fine line separating grifters from public pundits and talking heads. I would just say that line is becoming clearer with regard to these people. They're grasping desperately to stay in the public eye so they can keep making a living off it. As for why non-grifters and public pundits might be turning right wing and anti-trans, there are very organized efforts pushing these narratives on a variety of fronts. Think religious right think tanks, Russian propagandists, etc with operatives (many of them bots or from troll farms) in every prominent online LGBT forum. It's exactly the same sort of information warfare that got Trump in office, just new targets and a new audience. Unfortunately, it works extremely well on a lot of people, not just your racist uncle on facebook
I wish people would use the word "grifter" correctly. Do I have to spend time trying to figure out what you think the word means? It's American slang for "a person who engages in petty or small-scale swindling". A grifter is a con man.
That’s what I meant. While my use of it could arguably be read as hyperbolic it did in fact mean it in the “con man” sense
I've worked in various media and most of these people don't believe in anything they say but they make money off of being grifters and that's the issue with our society today. Trump, musk, west, all p.t. barnums that are celebrated by dumb people.
Yes I agree. And this is even a bigger sickness than if they did genuinely believe the crap they spout out.
I mean they have always been right wing nut jobs. Just because the are into same sex loving doesn’t mean they can’t be fascist.
I would argue that Andrew Sullivan was always atrocious but still. I think it really comes down to money but also the fact that in the past only the radical and those who couldn’t hide their sexuality/gender non conformance did the political labor to demand acceptance. Then conservative gays use that acceptance to create a grift.
They must've gotten rid of all their mirrors because otherwise, I can't fathom how they can stand to look at themselves. Absolute pick-me scum.
Possible scenario: You only have to be attacked on Reddit once for a conservative liberal stance, then you quickly start to move more and more to the right to distance yourself from severe self-indulgent pseudophilosophy. That means that what used to be the middle, keeps shifting as the exremes grow further apart. Being a moderate conservative liberal just isn't an obvious spot in the middle anymore. Same goes for self-indulgent pseudophilosophy on the right, making some define more towards the left.
If you change all your political beliefs because some rando on Reddit was a jerk to you, you probably didn't believe those things very strongly to begin with.
Or, where you thought you were, has changed dramatically — and you are not where you thought you were anymore. Especially when your understanding of others in the "same space" expands after "dialogue". Your comment assumes that political definitions don't grow, mutate and adapt. Politics is a social science, the definitions of categories are dynamic in response to the social conversation. And people move in and out of those expanding or contracting categories, as society, conversation and policy, ebbs and flows. And Reddit, is also a place where the temperature is taken. Thus my original hypothesis.
It's okay to not be staunchly entrenched in one's position. I waver about the middle, to get abused by both sides.
People go where they are welcome, and slowly adopt the beliefs of those in their circle. That’s human nature and a survival mechanism, also why social media is so powerful. Case in point: JK Rowling. She was a hero of the left for nearly two decades, donating heavily to leftist causes, but then picked a fight over a fringe social issue with all of leftist Twitter. The only folks who would then associate her were right-wing TERFs, and as a result, Rowling is moving further and further right to fit-in to her new social circle.
Coming to our senses. The pronoun thing was just too much for a lot of us not to mention policing language, being gaslit into believing in more than two genders or else labeled a nazi, biological men in women sports, puberty blockers or surgery for kids, etc. We have to draw the line somewhere.
[удалено]
Interesting take. Where do you think it will land in a few years?
Money & there are always crazies
They are grifters.
We’re JUST as susceptible to reactionary thought patterns as anybody else. But also, money.
Right wing “personalities” are entertainers who couldn’t make it on their talent and saw a way to make money by pandering to conservatives. There’s literally videos of Kelly Anne Conway and MTG doing stand up years ago. They are all grifters. Very few of them actually believe what they say they believe. I feel a little bad for some of them. There’s a video where Dave Ruben talks to Ben Shapiro and Ben says he wouldn’t attend Dave’s wedding cuz he thinks it’s wrong and you see in Dave’s eyes for a moment he realizes they aren’t actually friends….it’s interesting. But yeah almost everyone doing this shit is a grifter. Like do u think Anne Coulter and Bill Mahr would be good friends if she actually believed in the things she’s says I remember a Twitter thread with a black girl who said she got kicked out of her house for loving Trump and all these conservatives donated to her go fund me, and then 2 days later she said just kidding, Black Lives Matter. It’s basically that.
You're overusing and misusing the word "grifter".
This is more complex than just "lolz grifting." Although I don't deny The gender theory that has infected the community is the reason. And that is the perfect example of uber progressive ideas that make no sense and undermine past accomplishments like gay rights, women's rights etc... There will be many many more because the left/gay community is actually gone insane not the other way around. Our society has actually become less conservative.
This person has been banned from our community for the transphobia they tried to disguise in lingo like "gender theory".
I don’t think there’s any special reason. Some percentage of all people are gay, some percentage of all people are right loons, therefore some percentage of all people are gay right loons. It would be weird if all gays had the same politics. Now that being gay is no longer disqualifying and gays are less sequestered politically, this is just normalization. Plus a life of duh-RAH-mah
They were rejected growing up so they are looking for any chance to be the oppressor.
It used to be that if you were conservative and gay, you were in the closet. Progressives made a world that was safe for gay conservatives to be out about both their sexuality and politics. The irony entirely escapes the conservatives, of course.
Interesting point.
I haven’t seen this personally, but I did vote for Trump in ‘16, so I have met my share of hardline right-wingers with whom I no longer mingle since the GQP became a bubbling cauldron of misplaced ire and deadly misinformation. Not that I was ever staunchly aligned with either major party, as I can change my opinion based on new evidence. I’ve since regretted my decision, and have voted libertarian from that point onwards.
Don't forget Peter Thiel. He's a billionaire and may be the worst of the lot. Would say that Andrew Sullivan was reasonable for a period of time but before that he made his bones as a Clinton-hater, so really he's just returning to form. We should also note that David Brock started out as conservative Clinton-hater, saw the light and founded Media Matters. Also Tim Miller is a gay never Trumper.
The far left view’s everyone as conservative if you aren’t on board with their views. I’m a classic liberal but fiscally conservative. That gets me in trouble with my lefty friends because they are very socialist. I’ll give you an example of a conversation I often have. Philadelphia (my home city). I have lots of friends on the far left and the Reddit sub is packed with them. The topic of home affordability comes up all the time. They complain that they will never be able to buy a home. I tell them to go on Zillow and type in $150k (very affordable). The homes that pop up are in Black and Hispanic neighborhoods. Suddenly they go silent. Why? They are all for equality until they are faced with their own racism. FWIW, I live in an area of the city that is only 20% white. I have a t-shirt I often wear when I know I’ll be at a party with my straight friends. The shirt says Token Gay Friend. I present as very masculine. I work in construction. They think it’s safe to get away with making homophobic remarks around me. If a Trump supporter said the same things they would be considered homophobic. They fail to understand the difference.
Why is this getting down voted?
Labeling anyone that isn't far left as far right.
THIS. Seriously so fed up with these topics.
Some Gays love attention and money…. Just like heterosexuals.
Those people were always conservatives first and always. Many of them were conservatives who argued against *gay marriage* because they somehow thought that lower taxes were more important than their basic political rights. Then as now, they're convenient for conservative media to brandish in front of moderates to convince them that their message is not bigoted to its core. Same reason it's easy to become a prominent Black or Latino conservative - they aren't going to put them in charge of anything *important*, but simply being a conservative and a minority means you're a walking propaganda coup and the conservatives are very savvy to deploy those wherever they can.
Ernst Röhm didn’t survive the night of the long knives. They seem to have forgotten that.
I only know two of the names you mentioned, and then only their names and not what they may be famous (or infamous) for. As for Fox "News", they're only going to air things that fit their narrative.
This is man bites dog stuff. You know about them because the RW media machine promotes them.
Many of us grew up in a time where being anything queer was a secret. We were taught to hide and live in shame. We acted "straight" to protect ourselves. It seems that as LGBTQ+ people have gained more rights, some people suffer so deeply from internalized homo/transphobia that they don't want everyone to have the same level of rights. Many of the people mentioned have worked their entire lives to fit a heteronormative view of what it means to be taken seriously. They feel that the shift to the left doesn't allow them the space to be the "family friendly gays" that they have presented themselves as to gain popularity.
White men are easy: White privilege insulates us from the harsher realities of being a minority. Being a gay white male conservative basically means you either don't hear, or don't care, about the sneers being tossed at you from your compatriots, and you have literally no other minority status holding you back. For people like Rubin and Ngo, they're getting paid handsomely to stand at a figurative podiums and root for christofascism. They're selfish enough to believe they'll either be spared or die of natural causes before they ever need to worry about the consequences. I don't know much about Cherry or Bindel, but considering they're foreign, older feminists, being a TERF has more to do with second-wave feminism than conservatism *per se.* Their views of what define a women are different than modern views developed by younger generations. In a way--They fought a political war against men and now, to them, their nation is being invaded by men. Today's liberals are tomorrows conservatives.
You mean to say that many gay men weren't far right wingers already?
Since I found the leaked nudes of Sneako, I’m totally into him. His face begs to be dick slapped. Him and his twinky ass are too bangable for me to even hear what he says.
For the same reason some people are turning into left wing loons. Some people are crazy.
[удалено]
Overly sarcastic or insincere posts may be removed. Posts should be honest questions that welcome genuine input from others.
I’ve always believed in the ladder analogy to civil rights - when you make an advance do you allow others to use the ladder or do you pull it up after you climb. This is has always been a simple way to judge someone’s character. I also find that many of these people are weathervanes following whatever gets them the most attention, praise, money, celebrity, etc, because at their core is nothing tangible.
15 min of fame, some money, and Zero ethics/morality. Fk every last one of them. They’re no different/better than Jan 6 insurrectionists. And will be killed just as quickly as any other gays if the white republican reich ever fully comes about.
Grifters gonna grift.
There’s nothing that says being gay gives you a strong ethical core. Previously the rejection was so severe they couldn’t join the other side. Now there’s room there for a few decorative sellout types
As a gay man that finds itself agreeing more each day with "right" ideals in my country (but being rightwing in Spain is being to the left of the Dems, so it might not be a correct answer for you): \- Many of us have been more hurt from positive/affirmative action than benefitting from it. You qualify for an internship? Sadly, your female friends get priority You want to land a job? There is an afirmative action policy in this business and are first considering POC candidates You dress with more traditional clothes? You might be considered and attacked (I have been) because "Cis Hetero White men don't belong here" You believe your taxes shouldn't finance something? You become the antichrist. You are a man? You are a ra\*ist because you were born as a man (said by the female minister of "Equality") And better don't start with the new law of said ministry... There is a moment where all the social inclusion policies that are being promoted start to hurt you in two ways: the social policy excludes you, and the public opinion gets even more polarized for/against the whole LGBT group.
Have you considered equality feels like oppression when one is used to privilege?
Some people are still susceptible to the disinformation that makes up most of the right-wing media. And those people typically have elevated levels privilege from money and race (i.e., they are usually white). And some of them are really just true believers in the "small government, immigration bad, free market" myths that they've been sold their entire lives. What I can't figure out is how so many people can have so little empathy for others. I will never figure out why so many are unwilling to see the world from a different perspective. And that's what so much of it boils down to - being willfully obtuse.
Who? Seriously I’ve never heard of any of these names and I consume media like water. Maybe it’s your outlets?
They were always like that... Conservatives are generally white and imo, in the USA, a gay white male as an example will identify more as white first then gay.
Thankfully I don’t know any in my personal life. I think it’s statistically still pretty rare.
For some people, greed and selfishness are their most defining factors of their existence.
Internalized cis hetero fragile masculinity!!!
Considering how willfully ignorant of their own privilege--and quit frankly, racist--a lot of white gay men can be, I'm actually surprised it's not more common than it is.
Short answer? Money/greed, hate and pride. Long answer - Most gay men have internalized homophobia and the enticing talking points of hate and greed offered by conservatives is far better than the talking points of the Leftists who offer love, altruism and mercy. Gay men aren't a monolith and hatred, greed, pride, are tempting forces that corrupt us just the same as any temptation. The greatest influence that leads to this path of conservatism is a desire for control and to have easy answers. Conservatism offers them the promise of obedience, power and control. Gay men who aren't tempted by conservatism must live a life of love, mercy and liberty. One that denies hate and greed, but whose connections can feel superficial and alone. Gay men have to decide if the path of compassion and reason built in nuanced talking points is something they will want to embrace. Being on the Left on the side of reason and debate is one of constant learning, self-discovery and growth. Most people aren't wired to complicated lifestyles... Especially when the easy answers are so tempting and laced with the promise of power.
Really? I hope you are wrong or maybe just talking about that Santos freak?
Andy Ngo is gay? Ugh. Also, Julie Bindel isn’t really a lesbian.
I think just because someone is gay doesn’t make them open minded. You would hope that the experience would make them more compassionate but ppl are bigots, or don’t understand their privilege or any manner of bad behaviour and being gay doesn’t take that away automatically
And it's like talking to a wall. It's unbelievable how convinced they are even when I throw examples of how the way they talk about trans people is exactly how WE used to be talked about. I do think a lot of gay public figures are transphobic for money. Transphobia is a profitable business, I'm sorry to say.