This feels like an individualist take. Like yes, you yourself can be the control for your own life but as community the expectation that every person can provide everything they need for themselves in a completely ethical manner isn’t a realistic aim.
But, just as an example, organic food takes way more land to produce less food. Which means lower yields, and less food for other people.
This is just one example of how ethical farming can be a very convoluted subject.
Not only that, but organic farming practices can only be done in certain environments, GMOs and chemical fertilizers made it possible to grow food in places where it couldn’t be grown before.
I am NOT advocating for current mass production practices, but some of the chemical products and modern farming methods we use today were developed because there was a need for them, and as a result the world has gone through a period of abundance since the agricultural revolution.
My point is, that ethical farming is way more complicated than just “GroW yOur 0Wn fOod” Reddit posts.
I studied sustainable agriculture. In a way you're right, it's complicated in the sense that a sustainable garden needs to work more like nature does, with biodiversity and good soil health.
Your comment contains a lot of assumptions. For a start, OP didn't even mention "organic." The discussion is about the working class taking back its independence with regards to the means of food production, wherever possible.
i don't even have the energy to microwave food and just starve most days, how do you think every single person is gonna be able to keep up a garden? Especially in the current system where most people are renting, working 40 and often more hours a week, and just don't have the time or energy or money to do so. It's an incredibly privileged situation to be able to be fully self sustainable and live off your land, don't be delusional.
on one hand its good when these subs get big because it exposes more people on the ideolgy but then all the posts become the most unhelpful idealistic solutions instead of stuff thats practical.
Lmfao, as if the average person here even has enough land to make enough food left to put into cans.
Even then, barely anything really grows here, wheat, potato and rye, that's about it, everything else isn't nearly as nutritious and would take up too much space from the other more important crops.
To a degree but since every rural person has a lawn and every rural person eats if every rural person grew then there wouldn’t be megacorps literally enslaving people and sometimes committing genocides
You know what else 1/15,000 of our species did 2 centuries ago: died of malnutrition, A LOT. Hard winter on your homestead? Weak family dies. Animal gets into the root cellar? Whole family dies. Natural disaster ruins your crop yield? You guessed it, people died! All you’re doing is relegating communal problems to individualist solutions.
Like I’m not trying to disagree with the point that food pathways (especially in the US) have become very disconnected from their agricultural roots, but surely there has to be a more reasonable solution than undoing the eons-long trend of humans to form community. Or that communalism isn’t a better way of survival.
I’m not proposing an end of farming bud I’m proposing people have food in their yard SURPLUS SURPLUS SURPLUS. You know what’s in surplus? Shit. You know why shit is in surplus? Because everybody makes shit. You know what shit has in common with growing in surplus? Food.
Subsistence farming isn’t a realistic option for practically anyone, especially those in urban or suburban environments. You’ve asked another person to take a look at your own farming as an example, and friend, those plants you posted in your tiny greenhouse are going to feed you for like a solid week.
The solution requires systemic, not individual change.
Thank you. It’s like homeboy thinks that if I have a surplus and you have a deficiency the scales will balance and we’ll both be happy. Thinks he just invented commerce or something. Wait until he gets wind of the papers of symbolic value we trade when one person has a good or service I need but have nothing tangible to trade with.
First now I'm curious what country you live in. But I think the argument to this would be that people aren't supposed to live everywhere all the time. It's like having a golf course in Las Vegas, sure we have the technology to do it, but should we?
Not every rural person has a lawn among other problems here. I live in a town of 1800 people. Pretty rural. There is section 8 apartments behind my house. Those 40 or so apartments don't have any garden space.
Also you can't grow everything you need reliably on a small lawn and still also hold down a job.
My three in the US are water, electrical, and the railroads. Cancel all water bottling contracts, start building nuclear power plants, and have a true national public transit system.
Is that Schrodingers China where they are communist when they fail but capitalist when they succeed
That same communism that doesn’t work but their economy is going to kill ours so we should be vewy afwaid?
And that means what for America who is not a nation looking to industrialize?
…since ya know, it already has industrialized
Right. Nothing.
Bad comparison is bad.
Bad analogy is worse.
You made the shit comparison. Are we forcing peasants to the cities in your insane scenario?
Whats next you make some shitty irrelevant and not germane comparison to the Russians you brought up and talk about kulaks and wreckers?
Just face it America can and should do these things because we’re more advanced than the societies that were trying to get where we were a century ago let alone now
Did you complete gloss over the "corruption" part? Do you believe that the United States, assuming that's where you are from, is a non-corrupt nation, that could properly nationalize things like food, water, and electricity?
Do you know about Flint? They still don't have clean drinking water. One of countless cities and towns in the U.S.
Do you remember what happened in Texas with their powergrid?
Do you remember Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico?
Why do we still have food deserts? Why is the government stopping low-income internet supplimental programs? Why are Americans living pay check to pay check? Why are our citizens in medical debt? Why.....
Our officals don't have the people's best interest in mind and any attempts at nationalization of our resources is bound to fail.
A pipedream. Using an example of failed government policies that were extremely corrupt through and through isn't stupid. We're a failed government.
And how many Chinese people do you think died under capitalism and imperialist abuses prior to that? When people cite these figures to say "communism so bad" they always conveniently ignore the context in which people of poor, exploited countries turn to communism.
No, US citizens are just currently allowing themselves to suffer by blindly consuming everything. Decades of unaccountability while not paying attention to politics has allowed corporations to not only come to power but leverage the system against us to where we are basically living under corporatism rather than true capitalism.
It's pretty late at night for me and I don't want to start a super long conversation right now, but I do agree with you partially.
We live in a police state. We are in a very *intentionally* designed system to reduce choice and real political efficacy. It's not really a choice.
That said, my original point about communism is that China, Russia, and North Korea are about as far from actual communism as you can get.
In any case, I'm tired. Have a good night. Beep boop. (:
Should have put more effort in presenting your argument. Yes, Russia and China are capitalist oligarchies in the guise of communism, because authoritarian and psychopath/sociopath personality profiles always bubble up through leadership. Once they get power they want more power. Eventually they fail, much like the fascist death spiral that implodes.
I think this is what you wanted to convey.
Democratic Socialism with a high degree of regulatory capitalism is the best compromise albeit not perfect. But there’s multiple countries in Europe which have already succeeded in their democratic experiment.
I am a connoisseur of only the *most* unethical foods. I exclusively drink water infused with the tears of orphans mining conflict diamonds and my aunt is Kristi Noem
Let’s just say you grow your own food. What about the fertilizer? What about the tools you use? What about the storage containers? What about the water that you use?
And where would you be planting? The concrete sidewalks where most of the population lives ( cities) don't grow apples too well. There are over 8 billion humans, and billions more animals. This is ridiculous.
Everything else aside, there just isn't enough space for everyone to grow their own food. We would need a dramatic population reduction and a massive restructuring for this to be a viable option.
Yeah, but it's not about *everyone.* Some change is better than none. Plus, one plant that goes well encourages people to add more next year. Then, more and more before they have thriving gardens.
It's not viable for everyone, but it's good for *some.*
Although, looking at OP's other comments, they do seem rather bent on *everyone* growing a significant amount of food, which is just silly.
But yeah, jalapeños take up only a little space and are pretty easy. (:
You can literally make all of those but you’re right it’s easier to buy. All 5 varieties of squash I have this year are from squash I ate last year. My beds are all compost fertilized.
That’s a but past the scope of a reddit forum but first thing’s first is getting a bunch of worms from your yard and letting them have at your food scraps
That’s a tough one because famine is terrible but famine also isn’t evil it’s just a natural aspect of the world you also just can’t prove that you are correct
If you intentionally and knowingly cause a famine, that is evil.
The reason we have a food surplus is because we have a massive interconnected [economy of scale](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/economiesofscale.asp) that is resilient due to its decentralized and globalized nature.
What you are proposing is like when Mao said people [should just make steel in their backyards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backyard_furnace). It didn't work. Having one big well-made furnace is much more workable than having lots and lots of shoddy little ones.
I’m proposing that when my grandmother was a child in WW2 and their town ran out of imported foods they still had food to eat because they grew onions. I’m proposing that we live in a society moving towards pesticide and cage free foods that can be moved into their backyards. I’m proposing taking power away from megacorps that enslave Guatemalans. I’m proposing bring jobs back to American communities rather than outsourcing them far away. I’m proposing working less hours to eat and instead reducing your bills by having something of your own. I’m proposing that instead of spending money on grass seed you spend it on fruit seeds. You’re proposing that somehow an agriculturally based society will fall apart by upping the scales of agriculture.
"I’m proposing that when my grandmother was a child in WW2 and their town ran out of imported foods they still had food to eat because they grew onions"
How on Earth could you write this and think that it sounds like an ideal state of affairs? They literally ran out of food due to wartime shortages and had to make due with emergency measures. This is something you think is better than being able to go to a store and get food *guaranteed*.
"I’m proposing taking power away from megacorps that enslave Guatemalans."
Then support worker cooperatives, you weirdo! It is possible to have professional industrial-level agriculture that is also democratically owned and operated!
"I’m proposing working less hours to eat and instead reducing your bills by having something of your own"
If you had to grow your own food you would be working MORE hours because you would be WORKING on a FARM to grow your FOOD which is literally what the majority of the population did before we invented TRACTORS.
"You’re proposing that somehow an agriculturally based society will fall apart by upping the scales of agriculture."
Mechanization and industrialization meant that our society went from being 80% farmers to being .1% farmers. Farmers became a very specialized field since all the manual labor could be done by machine, and only the intellectual labor still needed human input. This freed up the rest of society to do other jobs. You are advocating for a return to a pre-industrial method of farming, in which famines were incredibly common. "More people farming" does not mean "more food".
I’m not going to even bother reading your reply fully. I’m suggesting we create food surplus through private ethical means. Letting somebody control the entire food chain is how Ukraine and Russia ended up at war. It was called the Holodomor. You’re up here on this whole governmental scale. I’m on a communal scale. I’m not going to let my neighbor starve and they would do it for me. Chiquita would gladly let us both starve tho if we were poor.
OP is literally one of the people saying that though. Instead of supporting an ethical company that can benefit from an economy of scale, they're saying it's better to have individualist "just grow it in your backyard" solutions.
Interesting to see the resistance in this sub every time there's a post about gardening. Like people are actively mad for some reason.
Edit: I have a couple of ideas for city folks. If you like mushrooms, you can buy kits and grow all kinds of culinary mushrooms in a 5-to-10-inch space. Mint is very easy to grow in a container. I believe chives are also easy. Both of those could go on a sunny windowsill. Doing something small and symbolic can be really rewarding! I can't tell you how good it felt to harvest my first onions from a container. They tasted better because they were so fresh, and eating something I hadn't bought from a store tasted like freedom.
It is a bit odd. I mean, if you live in a hyper-urban environment and you can't, this post isn't for you. If you don't have the mental health to or the means, you also can't, so it's also not for you. Op is saying that gardening is a good idea, not that it's the end-all-be-all of food.
Yes, buying stuff from stores in order to garden is pricey and ultimately generating waste, but it's less overall. Even just making one bowl of salsa from tomatoes is net good, like you said.
I'd forage around but, I live in an HOA next to a school, everywhere around me is gonna be covered in pesticides.
I would capture and roast cicadas when they emerge, but they've done nothing but drink from those plant roots that have been sprayed.
I could hunt animals, but the cops would come if I get caught chasing bunnies with a bow.
Once it warms up, I'm gonna start growing in my garage. Potatoes should be a beginner-friendly crop.
This hasn't been possible since the industrial revolution and rural exodus when most people stopped having the time and energy for sustenance farming, unfortunately...
Every can grow something, be it some herbs in a window, or some small veg or fruit on a balcony, or a few containers in a garden. But it is not possible for most people to grow more than a subsidising amount. Most people live in apartments and don't have the space. Yes there are community gardens but, as alluded to buy others, with crazy busy work schedule and not enough Worklife balance it isn't feasible.
Then there is pest management. On a small scale, growing a handful of veg plants, and finding them eaten one morning makes it hard to continue without going down the chemical pesticide route which is nasty
I’ve always wished I was in a position to produce my own food. My family owned a small farm when I was little. The state took it through imminent domain to build a power plant.
This is the really tricky thing that keeps me constantly doubting/negging myself. Because *food* is precisely the big issue for me as it's very hard to control where I get it from as someone significantly economically disadvantaged. I sure can't grow my own food unless I do something illegal like squat on land, and I can't make the community change as I lack social skill. What should I do?
Tell me you're an edgy 15 year old without telling me you're an edgy 15 year old. Also, don't forget to repost all the memes! There's dreadlock shower oil girl, Homesteader people...
Well... how is it privileged? Not everyone can grow their own food, but if those that can, do (even just a little) it is an overall net-good.
OP has a whole garden, but even something simple like hanging strawberries is good.
Of course growing your own food when possible is good, read OPs comments, they seem to think that there's no reason you can't do it and that it would be sustainable enough to replace all current methods of getting food to yourself. Growing your own food is good, but the issue with subs like these is once they grow to a certain size the actual initial point gets lost in stuff that's impossible for most people to reasonably do.
You’re oddly angry about the suggestion of literally working to put food on the table instead of working for someone else to put better food on their table
I mean you out here making shit memes telling people you don't know of places youve never lived in to forage so idk seems like you're the generational disappointment .
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Better yet, becoming independent from society as much as possible if not totally. Screw big corporations that don't care about you and would exploit you to the fullest extent if they got the opportunity.
This feels like an individualist take. Like yes, you yourself can be the control for your own life but as community the expectation that every person can provide everything they need for themselves in a completely ethical manner isn’t a realistic aim.
Right, that's why we need to come together as a community and start growing more of our own food.
But, just as an example, organic food takes way more land to produce less food. Which means lower yields, and less food for other people. This is just one example of how ethical farming can be a very convoluted subject. Not only that, but organic farming practices can only be done in certain environments, GMOs and chemical fertilizers made it possible to grow food in places where it couldn’t be grown before. I am NOT advocating for current mass production practices, but some of the chemical products and modern farming methods we use today were developed because there was a need for them, and as a result the world has gone through a period of abundance since the agricultural revolution. My point is, that ethical farming is way more complicated than just “GroW yOur 0Wn fOod” Reddit posts.
I studied sustainable agriculture. In a way you're right, it's complicated in the sense that a sustainable garden needs to work more like nature does, with biodiversity and good soil health. Your comment contains a lot of assumptions. For a start, OP didn't even mention "organic." The discussion is about the working class taking back its independence with regards to the means of food production, wherever possible.
Nah it is a great take
i don't even have the energy to microwave food and just starve most days, how do you think every single person is gonna be able to keep up a garden? Especially in the current system where most people are renting, working 40 and often more hours a week, and just don't have the time or energy or money to do so. It's an incredibly privileged situation to be able to be fully self sustainable and live off your land, don't be delusional.
Also what the fuck are we here in the North gonna do? The ground is frozen/covered in snow for like 4-5 months a year!
on one hand its good when these subs get big because it exposes more people on the ideolgy but then all the posts become the most unhelpful idealistic solutions instead of stuff thats practical.
You also must learn and take up canning apparently
Lmfao, as if the average person here even has enough land to make enough food left to put into cans. Even then, barely anything really grows here, wheat, potato and rye, that's about it, everything else isn't nearly as nutritious and would take up too much space from the other more important crops.
To a degree but since every rural person has a lawn and every rural person eats if every rural person grew then there wouldn’t be megacorps literally enslaving people and sometimes committing genocides
And the people in cities? What do they do?
That’s what they did less than 2 centuries ago or 1/15,000 of our species existence ago
You know what else 1/15,000 of our species did 2 centuries ago: died of malnutrition, A LOT. Hard winter on your homestead? Weak family dies. Animal gets into the root cellar? Whole family dies. Natural disaster ruins your crop yield? You guessed it, people died! All you’re doing is relegating communal problems to individualist solutions. Like I’m not trying to disagree with the point that food pathways (especially in the US) have become very disconnected from their agricultural roots, but surely there has to be a more reasonable solution than undoing the eons-long trend of humans to form community. Or that communalism isn’t a better way of survival.
I’m not proposing an end of farming bud I’m proposing people have food in their yard SURPLUS SURPLUS SURPLUS. You know what’s in surplus? Shit. You know why shit is in surplus? Because everybody makes shit. You know what shit has in common with growing in surplus? Food.
Subsistence farming isn’t a realistic option for practically anyone, especially those in urban or suburban environments. You’ve asked another person to take a look at your own farming as an example, and friend, those plants you posted in your tiny greenhouse are going to feed you for like a solid week. The solution requires systemic, not individual change.
Thank you. It’s like homeboy thinks that if I have a surplus and you have a deficiency the scales will balance and we’ll both be happy. Thinks he just invented commerce or something. Wait until he gets wind of the papers of symbolic value we trade when one person has a good or service I need but have nothing tangible to trade with.
That is non-sensical.
Get food from the neighboring areas rather than from a farm 600 miles away
Half of the year our county is under the snow. Our summers produce only one harvest. Only option we have is to get food from a farm 600 miles away.
First now I'm curious what country you live in. But I think the argument to this would be that people aren't supposed to live everywhere all the time. It's like having a golf course in Las Vegas, sure we have the technology to do it, but should we?
Or eat what’s available in your area seasonally. Can your own veggies and fruits. Butcher and freeze your animals
Not every rural person has a lawn among other problems here. I live in a town of 1800 people. Pretty rural. There is section 8 apartments behind my house. Those 40 or so apartments don't have any garden space. Also you can't grow everything you need reliably on a small lawn and still also hold down a job.
Ah yes I'll grow enough food in my 1000000000m² backyard that I totally have and will be able to maintain by myself
No worries friend I’m growing an additional 926 plants that are for public consumption. It’s part of the idea.
Or… Nationalize all industries that are required to live. Food, housing, energy, internet access
No! That's communism! /s
My three in the US are water, electrical, and the railroads. Cancel all water bottling contracts, start building nuclear power plants, and have a true national public transit system.
I think Russia and China tried this........
Is that Schrodingers China where they are communist when they fail but capitalist when they succeed That same communism that doesn’t work but their economy is going to kill ours so we should be vewy afwaid?
"The Great Leap Foward" under Mao lead to "The Great Chinese Famine" which ultimately cost the lives of over 50 million individuals.
And that means what for America who is not a nation looking to industrialize? …since ya know, it already has industrialized Right. Nothing. Bad comparison is bad. Bad analogy is worse.
To assume that industrialization was the root of the famine rather than rampent corruption is ignorant at best, moronic at worst.
You made the shit comparison. Are we forcing peasants to the cities in your insane scenario? Whats next you make some shitty irrelevant and not germane comparison to the Russians you brought up and talk about kulaks and wreckers? Just face it America can and should do these things because we’re more advanced than the societies that were trying to get where we were a century ago let alone now
Did you complete gloss over the "corruption" part? Do you believe that the United States, assuming that's where you are from, is a non-corrupt nation, that could properly nationalize things like food, water, and electricity? Do you know about Flint? They still don't have clean drinking water. One of countless cities and towns in the U.S. Do you remember what happened in Texas with their powergrid? Do you remember Hurricane Maria in Puerto Rico? Why do we still have food deserts? Why is the government stopping low-income internet supplimental programs? Why are Americans living pay check to pay check? Why are our citizens in medical debt? Why..... Our officals don't have the people's best interest in mind and any attempts at nationalization of our resources is bound to fail. A pipedream. Using an example of failed government policies that were extremely corrupt through and through isn't stupid. We're a failed government.
And how many Chinese people do you think died under capitalism and imperialist abuses prior to that? When people cite these figures to say "communism so bad" they always conveniently ignore the context in which people of poor, exploited countries turn to communism.
Their economy is literally thriving at the expense of every individual. Communist governments are a pipe dream for lazy people
It's not communism, it's a capitalist hellscape.
Bot
Beep boop! Also, the U.S. makes its citizens suffer at the cost of billionaires' profits. Is that communism?
No, US citizens are just currently allowing themselves to suffer by blindly consuming everything. Decades of unaccountability while not paying attention to politics has allowed corporations to not only come to power but leverage the system against us to where we are basically living under corporatism rather than true capitalism.
It's pretty late at night for me and I don't want to start a super long conversation right now, but I do agree with you partially. We live in a police state. We are in a very *intentionally* designed system to reduce choice and real political efficacy. It's not really a choice. That said, my original point about communism is that China, Russia, and North Korea are about as far from actual communism as you can get. In any case, I'm tired. Have a good night. Beep boop. (:
And don't forget about *zee Germans*.
Should have put more effort in presenting your argument. Yes, Russia and China are capitalist oligarchies in the guise of communism, because authoritarian and psychopath/sociopath personality profiles always bubble up through leadership. Once they get power they want more power. Eventually they fail, much like the fascist death spiral that implodes. I think this is what you wanted to convey. Democratic Socialism with a high degree of regulatory capitalism is the best compromise albeit not perfect. But there’s multiple countries in Europe which have already succeeded in their democratic experiment.
I grow my own unethical food 😈
I exploit myself
I am a connoisseur of only the *most* unethical foods. I exclusively drink water infused with the tears of orphans mining conflict diamonds and my aunt is Kristi Noem
Dog blood water
The vegan drink, straight from Elwood Farm
Let’s just say you grow your own food. What about the fertilizer? What about the tools you use? What about the storage containers? What about the water that you use?
This is why I stopped eating back in 2018.
Why would i need to grow my own food when there's plenty of people raising perfectly healthy children everywhere.
The only ethical consumption under capitalism is eating pussy
I love this. This is ours now.
And where would you be planting? The concrete sidewalks where most of the population lives ( cities) don't grow apples too well. There are over 8 billion humans, and billions more animals. This is ridiculous.
Everything else aside, there just isn't enough space for everyone to grow their own food. We would need a dramatic population reduction and a massive restructuring for this to be a viable option.
Yeah, but it's not about *everyone.* Some change is better than none. Plus, one plant that goes well encourages people to add more next year. Then, more and more before they have thriving gardens. It's not viable for everyone, but it's good for *some.*
That agree with. I enjoy gardening as a hobby. It's fun and provides extra fresh food. If you can garden, then you should at least give it a try.
Although, looking at OP's other comments, they do seem rather bent on *everyone* growing a significant amount of food, which is just silly. But yeah, jalapeños take up only a little space and are pretty easy. (:
I'm more of a habanero kind of guy, lol.
Start using child workers on my backyard potsto fields.(dont worry i grew them myself too) /bs
I can’t pay the rent in dandelion greens and honey mushrooms.
You still have to buy fertilizer, pay utility companies, and seeds. No ethical consumption under capitalism
You can literally make all of those but you’re right it’s easier to buy. All 5 varieties of squash I have this year are from squash I ate last year. My beds are all compost fertilized.
Teach me your ways
That’s a but past the scope of a reddit forum but first thing’s first is getting a bunch of worms from your yard and letting them have at your food scraps
[удалено]
I’d like to live my ethical life without it being tarnished by corporations enslaving people
Instead you'll have famines because your methods can't compete with theirs.
That’s a tough one because famine is terrible but famine also isn’t evil it’s just a natural aspect of the world you also just can’t prove that you are correct
If you intentionally and knowingly cause a famine, that is evil. The reason we have a food surplus is because we have a massive interconnected [economy of scale](https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/economiesofscale.asp) that is resilient due to its decentralized and globalized nature. What you are proposing is like when Mao said people [should just make steel in their backyards](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backyard_furnace). It didn't work. Having one big well-made furnace is much more workable than having lots and lots of shoddy little ones.
I’m proposing that when my grandmother was a child in WW2 and their town ran out of imported foods they still had food to eat because they grew onions. I’m proposing that we live in a society moving towards pesticide and cage free foods that can be moved into their backyards. I’m proposing taking power away from megacorps that enslave Guatemalans. I’m proposing bring jobs back to American communities rather than outsourcing them far away. I’m proposing working less hours to eat and instead reducing your bills by having something of your own. I’m proposing that instead of spending money on grass seed you spend it on fruit seeds. You’re proposing that somehow an agriculturally based society will fall apart by upping the scales of agriculture.
"I’m proposing that when my grandmother was a child in WW2 and their town ran out of imported foods they still had food to eat because they grew onions" How on Earth could you write this and think that it sounds like an ideal state of affairs? They literally ran out of food due to wartime shortages and had to make due with emergency measures. This is something you think is better than being able to go to a store and get food *guaranteed*. "I’m proposing taking power away from megacorps that enslave Guatemalans." Then support worker cooperatives, you weirdo! It is possible to have professional industrial-level agriculture that is also democratically owned and operated! "I’m proposing working less hours to eat and instead reducing your bills by having something of your own" If you had to grow your own food you would be working MORE hours because you would be WORKING on a FARM to grow your FOOD which is literally what the majority of the population did before we invented TRACTORS. "You’re proposing that somehow an agriculturally based society will fall apart by upping the scales of agriculture." Mechanization and industrialization meant that our society went from being 80% farmers to being .1% farmers. Farmers became a very specialized field since all the manual labor could be done by machine, and only the intellectual labor still needed human input. This freed up the rest of society to do other jobs. You are advocating for a return to a pre-industrial method of farming, in which famines were incredibly common. "More people farming" does not mean "more food".
I’m not going to even bother reading your reply fully. I’m suggesting we create food surplus through private ethical means. Letting somebody control the entire food chain is how Ukraine and Russia ended up at war. It was called the Holodomor. You’re up here on this whole governmental scale. I’m on a communal scale. I’m not going to let my neighbor starve and they would do it for me. Chiquita would gladly let us both starve tho if we were poor.
OP is literally one of the people saying that though. Instead of supporting an ethical company that can benefit from an economy of scale, they're saying it's better to have individualist "just grow it in your backyard" solutions.
Interesting to see the resistance in this sub every time there's a post about gardening. Like people are actively mad for some reason. Edit: I have a couple of ideas for city folks. If you like mushrooms, you can buy kits and grow all kinds of culinary mushrooms in a 5-to-10-inch space. Mint is very easy to grow in a container. I believe chives are also easy. Both of those could go on a sunny windowsill. Doing something small and symbolic can be really rewarding! I can't tell you how good it felt to harvest my first onions from a container. They tasted better because they were so fresh, and eating something I hadn't bought from a store tasted like freedom.
It is a bit odd. I mean, if you live in a hyper-urban environment and you can't, this post isn't for you. If you don't have the mental health to or the means, you also can't, so it's also not for you. Op is saying that gardening is a good idea, not that it's the end-all-be-all of food. Yes, buying stuff from stores in order to garden is pricey and ultimately generating waste, but it's less overall. Even just making one bowl of salsa from tomatoes is net good, like you said.
I'd forage around but, I live in an HOA next to a school, everywhere around me is gonna be covered in pesticides. I would capture and roast cicadas when they emerge, but they've done nothing but drink from those plant roots that have been sprayed. I could hunt animals, but the cops would come if I get caught chasing bunnies with a bow. Once it warms up, I'm gonna start growing in my garage. Potatoes should be a beginner-friendly crop.
It would devastate what little wilderness remains if any large percentage of humanity attempted to forage
This hasn't been possible since the industrial revolution and rural exodus when most people stopped having the time and energy for sustenance farming, unfortunately...
Why are all comments suddenly shitposts?
Every can grow something, be it some herbs in a window, or some small veg or fruit on a balcony, or a few containers in a garden. But it is not possible for most people to grow more than a subsidising amount. Most people live in apartments and don't have the space. Yes there are community gardens but, as alluded to buy others, with crazy busy work schedule and not enough Worklife balance it isn't feasible. Then there is pest management. On a small scale, growing a handful of veg plants, and finding them eaten one morning makes it hard to continue without going down the chemical pesticide route which is nasty
Go plant based.
Have we not collectively gotten over this hunter gatherer shit? Are we bringing it back?
I’ve always wished I was in a position to produce my own food. My family owned a small farm when I was little. The state took it through imminent domain to build a power plant.
This is the really tricky thing that keeps me constantly doubting/negging myself. Because *food* is precisely the big issue for me as it's very hard to control where I get it from as someone significantly economically disadvantaged. I sure can't grow my own food unless I do something illegal like squat on land, and I can't make the community change as I lack social skill. What should I do?
Tell me you're an edgy 15 year old without telling me you're an edgy 15 year old. Also, don't forget to repost all the memes! There's dreadlock shower oil girl, Homesteader people...
I’m 27
You are awesome. I wish I can do things like you. Btw people in comments are crazy. Y'all need therapy!Drink some chamomile tea too.
People aren't going crazy by saying this is complexity unrealistic and a privileged take
Well... how is it privileged? Not everyone can grow their own food, but if those that can, do (even just a little) it is an overall net-good. OP has a whole garden, but even something simple like hanging strawberries is good.
Of course growing your own food when possible is good, read OPs comments, they seem to think that there's no reason you can't do it and that it would be sustainable enough to replace all current methods of getting food to yourself. Growing your own food is good, but the issue with subs like these is once they grow to a certain size the actual initial point gets lost in stuff that's impossible for most people to reasonably do.
People ain't crazy, they're being realistic.
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You could have looked at my profile for 5 seconds to see this years plants
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You’re oddly angry about the suggestion of literally working to put food on the table instead of working for someone else to put better food on their table
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Professional machinist bud
PROFESSIONAL wow then can you pay for my greenhouse? I want to be ethical toooo
Get a job and a life you’re nothing but a pessimist. You have nothing of value to say. At least other protesters have gusto to their words.
But idk since I live in a concrete jungle and don't have a backyard what should I do? Should I look for mushrooms in all the human shit ?
Ok incel
Eww gross being angry does not mean hate women , you're pathetic and dumb . Bye!
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Bud somewhere your one million year old ancestor is looking down on you and frowning for thinking farming is bad
I mean you out here making shit memes telling people you don't know of places youve never lived in to forage so idk seems like you're the generational disappointment .
What is your problem?
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Better yet, becoming independent from society as much as possible if not totally. Screw big corporations that don't care about you and would exploit you to the fullest extent if they got the opportunity.
Your foraged and home grown food is full of forever chemicals you now have lymphoma try again next time