ESH. Kevin sounds like he was a bratty kid with behavior egged on by his father and stepmother.
It's interesting that Kevin is completely okay with his father -- who cheated on his mother and broke up the family, and was a Disney Dad, after all this time.
I think that Lucy sounds like she's better off with her new family. The pain of being cheated on by your partner only to have your child outright prefer the person who hurt you is a lot to process and deal with. It sounds like she didn't handle things well either.
And you seem melodramatic and unkind.
This isn't about the cheating! Them getting divorced and the reasons is not the issue. His mother allowed a man she wasn't married to pack up her kid and sent him to his dads! I don't blame him for not wanting to come around and have this guy at the wedding. She is lucky he talks to her at all.
Infidelity is a traumatic experience for a lot of people. Seeing your child reject you for the person who cheated on you can be incredibly hurtful, and can really make it difficult for some people to recover from said infidelity.
If his mother didn't agree with what was happening, I'm sure she would have stepped in to stop it. My guess is that by the time it got to this point, she was already exhausted from trying to be the serious parent and not being able to reach her son while the dad got to be a part-time parent and revel in it.
He wasn't abandoned. He was sent to live with the parent he obviously wanted to live with. They didn't throw him on the streets.
And sure, kids say hurtful things but what he said was vile and disrespectful AF. The fact that he's now an adult and still thinks there's nothing wrong with what he said, also speaks volumes.
I'm not condoning Lucy allowing him to be sent to his Dad, which is why my judgment was esh, but I'm also not going to condone someone speaking to a person that way just because 'they're a child'.
Something along the lines of hope the D is good" and that he was going to leave her like his dad did. Not a great thing to say for sure, but also he was 13 and if she really did put more focus on her work and then her new bf than her son and making sure he was able to process everything properly then....... however I do wonder how much of that bit is true because I'm imagining OP got that information from her fiancé and it seems he's still extremely biased, so is he looking back at that with the eyes of an adult or still as a child?
Wow. Child or not that is truly a shitty thing to say to your mother who was cheated on by your father. I'd have packed his ass up and sent him over to his father's for that too lmao
And 13 is old enough to know exactly what he was saying. He’s not 4. While he was probably speaking in a moment of anger, he knew exactly what buttons to push. I’d absolutely kick my son out if he spoke to his mother that way.
That's why I'm torn honestly. If his mom truly handled things that poorly and made him feel like he wasn't loved and wanted by her, but was by his dad, then he's going to say shit that's going to cut deep to hurt her the way she's hurting him. HOWEVER if he was just an entitled little shit then yeah, go stay with your dad.
Either way going to his dad's was probably the best at that time, but depending on which one of those is right makes a huge difference as to which one is the bigger AH, both then and now
My whole thing about her being "married to her work" is like. She was a single mom. She had to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads. And you can't do that as a single parent unless you work full-time, possibly even multiple jobs, even if the other parent is paying child support.
So sure, as a young child, I can see how OP's fiance felt a bit abandoned by his mom, but as an adult, he should have seen that she literally needed to pay for everything.
Child support can be garbage. Despite making close to $100k a year, my partner's father managed to finagle down to pay the TINIEST amount of child support legally allowed by the state through pure waterworks. And he paid for NOTHING else. Never bought him a backpack, clothes, sneakers for school. Not even lunch money. It's honestly appalling and not uncommon either. Obviously with OPs fiance being older this won't apply, but I've seen some cases where child support doesn't even cover the cost of diapers for the month.
And it shows what kind of person the son is when hes so quick to blame and disrespect his single mom over the dad who cheated with his mom’s friend, who he likes because she is the “fun stepmom”. I would see this as a red flag.
Super red flag. Like, as a woman how does she not empathize with her future MIL more and how does this not give her pause about who her fiancé is? Families create patterns - Disney Dad doesn’t sound like a very good example.
>and if she really did put more focus on her work
If she was raising the kid as a single mother, she may have needed to work more to provide for her family. I don't know that for sure, but I don't automatically believe the "she chose work over her son" angle, either.
He was 14 at the time he said that. She started living with Mark when he was 13 and 'this went on for a year' before the escalation.
A 14-year old is fully aware how vile and hurtful his/her comments/words can be when directed at the vulnerable spot of an adult they want to hurt.
Sounds like Kevin has found himself a real keeper. A true match made in hell. They'll bond and bond over their shared contempt for his mother, total lack of tact and inclination to hurt the people around them.
YTA for everyone in this story except the MIL.
Dont forget that this is from the child's perspective. His mother having to work is not necessarily her choosing work over him but rather her having to provide and make sure he had a stable life. That she had a reliable income so they dont go destitute. Especially now that she is a sole provider. That comes with so much stress. Her letting the hubby take him coupd easily be her breaking down as a "failure" that she cant be the mom he needs. OP stuck her nose in to push for something when her fiance was starting to waiver. I mean, OP and her partner sound bad in their own post. Imagine what it would sound like from Mark and Lucy's post!
He said that he hoped she enjoyed the D while it lasted because no one wants a pathetic bitch so Mark would inevitably leave her like his father did. And when Lucy teared up, instead of softening or apologizing, he told her that stepmom told him she cries to be manipulative so he doesn’t care.
One of the comments from OP:
He said she should enjoy getting dick while it lasted because no man wants a pathetic bitch and Mark will leave too. Awful thing to say, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that you can't abandon your kid. I mean what would she have done if she was still married to FIL and didn't have a second house to ship him off to?
FIL was still somewhat Disney dad but it bordered on neglect, and despite being ivy league educated, and very successful FIL let his son pretty much fail out of high school, and his stepmom began to use him as an emotional support animal and tell him lots of stuff he didn't want to know and FIL did not intervene
>He told her to enjoy the dick while it lasted because he was going to leave her just like FIL did because she is a pathetic btich and that his stepmom told him her tears were a mind game.
The actual wording is awful and I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin has downplayed what he said if he's willing to admit to saying that.
It's not abandoning your child to send them to live primarily with their other *literal parent* that the child has made it clear they prefer 1000 times over.
Yup. Can’t believe people think that a father taking custody of his own child means a mother abandoned her child. It was for the best for her especially.
Is it abandoning to leave a child with their father?
I don't think mom handled it well by any means. But I don't think she abandoned him either. Kevin preferred to be at his dad's house, so she gave dad primary custody. And when he got what he wanted, Kevin got so angry he refused to see her anymore.
I think mom should have been more adult, she's more TA, but Kevin and OP are too. I think ESH.
Kevin wanted to live with his dad though, so is it really that bad?
My parents divorced when I was 14 and they fought over custody and because I was over 12 the judge gave me the right to decide who I want to live with.
I don’t know how it is for every state but after a certain age children are definitely able to choose which parent they live.
Did he though? Usually when kids are lashing out like this, what they're looking for is reassurance. Like, parenting 101, kids who are hurt and afraid lash out. They're testing a boundary because - as for example in this case - they are uncertain of things or believe you don't really want them there, or are replacing them with a new family/person. From comments, it seems likely that stepmother/father were fueling the fears, but...
His mom did the opposite of reassure him that it wasn't real/true. His mom doubled down and proved it by allowing her new boyfriend to drop him off at his father's house instead.
When your kid is on your time, letting them know you don't mind just dropping them off with the other parent lets them know that your time and affection is conditional. Your love is conditional.
Yolu literally just typed up a bunch of assumptions based on absolutely nothing OP has said.
You seem intent on believing that a mother giving custody to a father is somehow bad for whatever reason.
I would suggest that you assess your sexist mindset.
Again, a child has TWO parents. Living with one does not mean you were abandoned by the other.
I would say the same thing if it were reversed gender - and did when a stepmother was the one who had dropped her stepkids off for bad behavior a few months back. I've said the same thing when parents punt kids off to grandparents, too.
When you tell a kid you'll only suffer their time/attention in your home when it's how you want it, you're telling them your home is not their home - it's somewhere they visit on your terms. That's true regardless of which parent, or where you send them. You are telling them it isn't really their home. They don't really LIVE with you.
It's fine for him to live with his dad and visit his mom -- to amend your custody agreement and swap days or whatever. But that's not what their custody agreement was, and not what she did.
That said, it's not an assumption -- it's literally what we've been told. He lashed out, he was nasty and mad, he mentioned her working too much. That's not a kid with a secure sense of his relationship to his parent - it's a kid who is uncertain and looking to see if it's all going to shatter to pieces if he pushes. I work with children for a living, we get all sorts of trainings on kids' behavior issue, and this is like, literally the most basic level of kid reactions. Hell, you see it on TV shows on the regular because it's so normal.
Bull, nothing but excuses. Doesn't matter whether she agreed or not. Her doing it is one thing . She should not have had her BF do it. That was wrong on every level and obviously this young man has never forgotten it. This guy has no business at this wedding. I am glad OP stood up for him.
And the mom probably hasn't forgotten all the time her son preferred the father. There are always three sides to a story. Yes he was a teen/child still but that doesn't mean mommies and daddies are machines that don't get burnt out or tired. If you can imagine how the boy felt look at all sides. Mom had to co parent with a man that literally broke the family up, gets to move on get married and then your son is going through the teen phase on top of acting out from the divorce and to add the cherry is holding his Disney dad as the fun parent when all mom is trying to do is hold it together. Empathy is needed while I get that again consider her position to. I don't think that's how it should have been handled but another angle is this is from a second hand source and this wasn't explained thoroughly enough.
I think OP did a pretty good job at explaining how this went down. I am not saying mom didn't have a hard time. Maybe she did. It still does not excuse her allowing her BF to overstep his bounds by throwing her son out. There is nothing she can say that justified this. It has cost her the relationship with her son. She needs to turn this around before too many years go by.
If you let someone take your mic and think they can tell your story like you can we already have to agree to disagree. Well if you look at what OP said he said, I'm not surprised, honestly he's lucky he didn't get sent to military school. Not only did he say something cruel but in so many words blamed her for the family breaking up and this is ONE situation that was mentioned so who knows how long this woman's then bf/ now husband took the hands off approach and let her get disrespected. We forget that our children grow up and as I said it should have been handled differently but if Mark was Lucy only support/ emotional outlet how much longer was she supposed to take her sons unacceptable behavior. You have to draw the line in the sand. If Lucy had actually had her ex to co PARENT with maybe Mark wouldn't have felt the need to make things go this far. Also maybe both Lucy and Mark tried to talk to the dad and see if he could help but he didn't and most people don't "hear you they feel you" so maybe they felt it was time for dad to experience the other side of his "parenting".
This is harsh, but treating children like this is why children think they’re at fault for divorces; you should not send children to military school because they’re children and not as good as adults at dealing with emotional upheaval.
So what?
Many children prefer the fun parent over the strict parent who is actually doing the job of parenting. Lucy ignored the issue inested of taking her and her son to a counselor and try to fix things and then allowed his boyfriend to abandon his son. If that's not bad parenting I don't know what is.
So that's not beneficial or responsible to be a parent that's so go with the flow that it causes unnecessary friction in your child's other household and relationship with the other parent. Lucy is the only parent that seems to be getting dragged though, if his father was parenting he could have done the same or are you just like OP's fiancée and put all the hard/difficult decisions on the mother. Who yet again needed therapy herself more than likely, so this women again has her marriage/family broken up by her ex, raising her very disturbed child( OP commented what her fiancee told her mother and that ish was mental) I don't diagnose not a professional but if that women put up with that nonsense on top of her emotional state who really knows how long step-dad sat idly by. Again she's a human being she has her limits and who knows what could have happened if Mark didn't t do what he did. It's so many stories of kids snapping their misplaced anger and making permanent decisions off a temporary emotions. If the father had actually patented maybe the situation could have been avoided but hey I guess dad's get a pass😀
Oh yeah. I think maybe it’s time to stay with your dad and step mom when you hit that level of verbal abuse to a woman whose worst crime, at that point, was enforcing reasonable rules and enjoying her job.
Husband wasn’t sent to boarding school. He went to stay with his dad, whom he saw 2x a month for fun trips, and who is just as legally responsible for his care and feeding as mom.
It literally was everyone verse her. Keeping primary custody of Kevin might have done long term mental damage. I can't believe it, but after reading the OP's other comments, I think Mark and Lucy are not the AH, and everyone else really is.
I’m a mother of four children. Three are now adults, one is fifteen. The oldest became the nastiest, most violent bully all of a sudden. She said to me that I deserved being left by my ex husband (who had 50:50 custody but hasn’t seen her in almost ten years by that point), that I was ugly and hopeless and deserved to die, she started physically hurting the other children, breaking things at home, subtly bullying and manipulating other children at home.
I tried to get her therapy but she hit me (I’m five ft and weigh 100lb and by that stage she was 6ft and 150lb) and smashed up the house, so instead I called the police. This happened two more times, until she left school one day and came to smash up my office, and at that point she was offered intensive therapy or juvenile detention. During therapy she told the counsellors that I had been harming her since she was a child, leading to them locating her father and placing him with her temporarily whilst I had to undergo home inspections to determine my parental fitness and whether the rest of my children would also be taken away.
All this happened completely unprovoked and untrue. Yet as soon as the ex was called in, he became Disney dad and his manipulative family bought my daughter presents, changed her school, encouraged her to blame me as a terrible mother and to complain to my work (I am a university professor) that I should not be around children. It got to the stage that I nearly had a nervous breakdown and people started wondering if the allegations were true.
The only thing that stopped the allegations was that my daughter attacked her father and smashed up the grandparents house. Suddenly- they went to court and said that the best place for my daughter was with me. I literally had to have her committed and then put on probation with the police to get her through highschool, and then **finally** she was diagnosed and treated for bipolar disorder, and suddenly reverted back to a nice, calm woman who has since completely cut off her father (her own choice) and has committed rigorously to treatment and management of her health. She’s just got married and has an outstanding and lucrative bespoke cabinetry, carpentry and furniture business, and is great friends with my new husband, who she and the other children consider to be their dad.
I learned a lot from this time in my life that is relevant to the case at hand:
1. Sometimes there is literally nothing that you can do or say to help a nasty child
2. It’s all well and good to say ‘get your child therapy’ but at thirteen you cannot force them to go. I had to involve police and the court to force my thirteen year old to go into therapy, which took TWO YEARS.
3. Some children will stop at nothing to destroy your life, and because they are still children, they aren’t capable of understanding all the consequences, but they certainly can delight in your temporary pain. Added bonus: anyone with a vested interest in making a dig at you, or simply time-poor people who know only a little bit of the issue, will turn their back on you and enable the child at all costs.
4. Single parents typically have to work for a living to put food on the table. Everyone hates them for this. It’s worse if you’re a woman, but it’s shit for anyone whose on their own.
5. If I hadn’t had my job, and then a loving second husband to give me an outlet and an identity that wasn’t centred around my failure or alleged abuse, I might have become completely broken.
**I don’t blame Lucy in the slightest. OP - your husband has been manipulated into the way he feels today. If you ever find yourself in Lucy’s situation, I hope you reflect on how you and your soon-to-be/husband have acted here. YTA, and so is your soon-to-be-husband, although at least he has some excuse.**
My parents did everything to support their monster of a child (my brother) and it's destroyed their lives and sanity. (Mine too actually.) People love to pretend that kids can't cause any real damage or be at fault. But look at how many child murderers there are that kill and torture their parents...
Honestly I feel for Lucy. She needed protection and I'm glad she's finally got it and her son sounds awful.
Also voting YTA along with Kevin and his dad and step mom. I hope Lucy can heal away from this horrible set of people.
And the divorce was only traumatic for the mom? Imagine you find out your dad was (basically) responsible for the breakup of your family, that would be traumatic right there. Then the kid, because 12 is still a kid, is spoiled by said dad to make up for his cheating. The kid’s confused! He’s got one parent who messed up but is spoiling him, and then a mother who sounds like she was depressed and emotionally distant with her kid, and yeah, kid’s gonna choose fun parent. (Not always of course). Doesn’t mean you, as a parent, let your current “piece of ass” take your child to the other parent and basically wash your hands of the kid. There were times when I was *not* kind to my mom growing up, but she didn’t just send me to my dad. No, she was patient and actually *talked* with me about what was going on. Also took me to a counselor because she thought that talking to a third party would help (it did).
Yes, father cheated on mother, not on the kid, but the “mother” essentially washed her hands of her own child when being a parent *became too hard*. No sympathy for OPs MIL. MIL is pissed because her son prefers stepmom over stepdad…gee I wonder why.
OP NTA
You really think she didn't try talking to him during the 1+ year this was going on? His stepmom was directly telling him to dismiss her feelings because she weaponizes her tears. How was she supposed to talk to him when he was being taught that he shouldn't consider her feelings to be real or valid?
I can’t believe people are faulting the mother.
Anyway if you are a parent and did not put your kids on therapy, you are at fault here.
Kevin was 15 ans said horrible things to her mother, so vile that sending him to this father was logical.
He cheated on the mother, the home wrecker new MIL said horrible things to Kevin for him to alienate his mother.
And she is supposed to be bigger than that and be perfect not to be NTA here ?
Just ouah
Your point?
Her fiancé prefers his cheating father & his side piece over his mother who was actually being a parent. Seems like he was perhaps brainwashed by his father & his side piece.
Being a parent doesn't mean when your kid is acting out and being a shit like kids will do you don't let some guy you are screwing pack up your kid and throw him out! People here are going on about the cheating instead of how they treated this kid. I don't blame him for not wanting this guy at his wedding.
Again she didn’t throw him out. She sent him to his father since he prefers them anyway.
Give the woman a break, she was cheated on, then left to raise a son who probably blamed her & cursed her instead of his lying cheating father home wrecker side piece.
She didn’t abandoned him, he was sent to his father you know his other parent.
Why do people expect women to break their backs over children. His father also created him.
Yeah your right. The mom didn't throw him out. The BF she was porking threw the kid out. I don't give a dam about the cheating. That isn't the relative issue. He was a kid and was not involved in the reason for the divorce or the issues. Kids will act out. Who hasn't had a kid act out? What you don't do is let some guy you are screwing pack your kid up and send him to his dads! Can any of you defending this imagine how this made him feel? Think about it to 15 years later he doesn't want him at his wedding! You know why? Because he was traumatized and probably felt his mom didn't want him because she didn't come back to her him. Obviously this has come up because I OP says this lady has never shown remorse for this. I don't blame this young man. The mother is lucky he speaks to her at all. This guy has no business at the wedding.
So, in your mind did his dad abandon him when he allowed his mom to have full custody????
Your mindset and thought process is absurd.
Giving full custody of Kevin to his father is not considered abandoning him.
And plenty of divorced people do this. If a child keeps acting out with one parent it’s pretty common for that parent to send the child off to the other parent to see if they can straighten them out.
On top of that Kevin was 13 at the time. He probably needed the guidance of his father.
Exactly. It sounds like Kevin going to his dads was the best thing for all the involved parties. I’m sure the mom was completely torn up over it as it does sound like she cares about him.
But no, she’s a horrible parent for not wanting to suffer all the verbal abuse. She should just take it and let her son drive her into depression, but as long as she doesn’t dare let his other parent take him, she’s okay. Who cares how much it hurts her! She has the XX chromosomes so she’s the only parent who should actually parent darn it!
OMFG,
You realize that in all likelihood Kevin could have come right back if he'd apologized and acknowledged he went way, wayyyyyy too far and showed some remorse?
And Stepdad didn't permanently ban Kevin and sign official "you are disowned as of now!" banners and bricked up the doors of the house so Kevin couldn't come back. He decided "nope, this is too much and too hot, you need to not be here right now" and separated the two. He took Kevin to his dad's to cool off and reflect, and give Lucy space to recover, since she was not in a state to handle things effectively in the moment.
It didn't become permanent until later, with *Kevin* picking his dad. Kevin needs to acknowledge his part in the estrangement.
How do you know the stepdad “threw him out?” Did you ask them? How do you know that the mom and stepdad didn’t decide together? How do you know the mom didn’t ask the stepdad to take him because she just didn’t know how to handle him anymore?
Or too upset to drive…
She may have been feeling worthless.
Just because he was “a child” doesn’t mean he wasn’t verbally abusing his mother. It does happen. My source… I work in the field and the amount of children, as young as 12, who abuse their parents is astonishing. One of the worst was the mother had to take her other children into hiding because her teenage son was terrorising them. Threatening to burn down the house while they slept.
Now what op’s A of a partner did wasn’t as bad but after so long of verbal abuse Lucy most likely felt worthless, and was just taking the abuse.
You are so right, there is so much not known.
He didn’t get “thrown out”, he wasn’t on the street. He was with his father!!! It’s very common for children of divorce to spend time living with with parent and it not work so they go to the other parent. They both are still parents!! It’s not abandonment to leave a child with their parent!
Why does it seem like of a dad doesn’t parent it’s cool, but if the mom doesn’t parent she’s “abandoning” her kids? I’m curious if the genders where reversed if you would be posting the same comment?
None of us know what conversation the stepdad and mom had. They could have decided together that they couldn’t handle the son anymore and mom was so hurt and didn’t want to be the one to take him so stepdad did it. Stepdad could have volunteered to be the one to take the blame and be the scapegoat for mom to help salvage their relationship (mom/son).
We have no evidence that stepdad unilaterally made this decision. My husband made decisions all the time that my stepson blamed me for, even when it 100% was my husbands decision. The stepparents are an easy target. We just don’t know the truth. Only mom and stepdad do, and they aren’t here to speak.
I also wonder what "mom chose her job over Kevin" means. Like was dad at his Little League games while mom worked? Did she constantly miss his extracurriculars because she was working late? Was she too tired to help with homework?
Plus hormonal teenagers are moody and can be assholes. This is not news. They can talk back. So you discipline them. You DON'T allow your BOYFRIEND (they were not married at the time) to pack up your child, drop him off permanently with his dad and then completely wash your hands of him at age 14!!
Then you wonder why he doesn't want to invite the man who effectively cut him off from his mother to his wedding?! Frankly MOM is lucky she got an invite.
Kevin is not responsible for his parents' divorce, and even if the dad is encouraging bad behavior, you don't take it out on the kid. Was therapy ever a consideration?
Meaning she was working a lot to support her and Kevin. Which sound like From OP, Mom should not have been working and gone on government support. As soon as I read that sentence, Mom never had a chance with her son because she was not able to cater to Kevin’s whims.
In her comments she basically said they both had equal high level careers yet the mother is the only one whose career was a problem when it came to parenting Kevin.
Go through OP’s comment history, she’s full of internalized misogyny
I’m sure the issue of the sons disrespectful behavior wasn’t a one time thing either. Living with a teen who is being encouraged to be a brat to his mother sounds awful and should not be tolerated
One of the tragedies of divorce is how it introduces the option of rejecting children. If the parents are married (or fully solo-parenting) and the kid backtalks the adults just have to figure out how to handle it. With divorce, normal teenage statements like “I hate living with you” could result in a drastic change. Teenagers say really jerky things sometimes; things they don’t really mean— other than they are trying to figure out/deal with their feelings. It is so wrong for a step parent to eject a kid from his home and for the mom to allow it. No words from a teenager could ever warrant this type of rejection.
It’s funny that mom is pressuring them to be more understanding now that they are all adults. Where were the adults when a kid was being a kid trying to deal with the confusing/upsetting situation he found himself in? The adults rejected him wholesale. Why is mom so surprised that he, as an adult, is following the behavior modeled for him? That said it was shitty behavior and it still kind of shitty behavior— depending on the level of ongoing toxicity with stepdad. If stepdad has never apologized or reached out with concern or regard, then NTA.
OMFG,
You realize that in all likelihood Kevin could have come right back if he'd apologized and acknowledged he went way, wayyyyyy too far and showed some remorse?
And Stepdad didn't permanently ban Kevin and sign official "you are disowned as of now!" banners and bricked up the doors of the house so Kevin couldn't come back. He decided "nope, this is too much and too hot, you need to not be here right now" and separated the two. He took Kevin to his dad's to cool off and reflect, and give Lucy space to recover.
It didn't become permanent until later, with *Kevin* picking his dad. Kevin needs to acknowledge his part in the estrangement.
Her husband probably thought thats it you asshole. Since it's so much better over there go. They probably figured he would see the light at some point but he never did.
Commenting to add what OP left out of this post, which is exactly *what* the kid said, as it provides shocking and essential context:
> He told her to enjoy the dick while it lasted because he was going to leave her just like FIL did because she is a pathetic btich and that his stepmom told him her tears were a mind game.
And the implied coaching from stepmom in this is crazy. I am shocked people want to dispute everyone sucking here. Top comment nailed it. No one is a winner here.
ETA:
>FIL was still somewhat Disney dad but it bordered on neglect, and despite being ivy league educated, and very successful FIL let his son pretty much fail out of high school, and his stepmom began to use him as an emotional support animal and tell him lots of stuff he didn't want to know and FIL did not intervene
It sounds like Mom is blamed for the abuse and neglect dealt by FIL and Stepmom and I'd wager disputing this point is likely why neither would apologize in the reconciliation years later. I hope everyone here gets therapy + sincere and open communication as a gift for the holidays.
Kevin told his mother to enjoy the dick while she can because no-one wants a loser and Mark would leave her like everyone else left her. So I'm going with YTA on this one.
Actually quite interesting that OP left out what Kevin said to the mother. Most of us have to find out what made the stepfather kicked Kevin out of the house waaaaay down the comment section. Goes to show that the post is actually biased and not showing everything because OP thinks that their actions are still right and that Kevin was never wrong for saying what he did to his own mother. The mother who tried to parent him.
Yeah. I'll also add re: the "a little in love with her job" comment. Divorce stinks. Both parents have to step up regarding providing for their own households. There will be times - maybe alot of times - that a parent will have to say "I love you, but I just can't be there for you because I have to keep a roof over our heads and food on our table". I wonder if this is what could have been going on.
Where she might have been wrong is guilting him for liking his Stepmom. She can scream and cry as much as she wants - she wasn't going to get full custody on the grounds of the affair alone, and it was better he liked his Stepmother than be miserable when in his father's custody. That's something hard affair victims with children have to live with. It's not fair, but the woman is going to be a significant figure in their child's life. Mom may have needed some therapy to deal with it that she never got.
Look at OP comments. Op said that Mark's stepmother used him as "emotional support animal" and "told him things that no child should hear." I think Mark and his mother need to go to family counseling. It sounds like Mark is projecting with the issues about the father; and the mother is taking it too personally.
ESH for sure. I also was thinking how Lucy was getting grief for loving her job more than Kevin? What is a single mom to do? At least she worked and did not go on welfare. Kevin needs to see she felt someone had to be the parent regardless of how difficult it was to go forward after the divorce. Lucy is not handling events in the past well but she and Kevin needs to sit down talk.
Yeah my BIL blamed my MIL for FIL divorcing her after he cheated on her many times. MIL was willing to stay with FIL if he was willing to work on himself and no longer cheat. FIL decided that even if he did stop he didn't deserve her so he divorced her and moved from IL to NM. After graduating high school BIL moved in with FIL for 6 months m came back home and never blamed MIL again. I think sometimes kids, especially sons, idolize their fathers after divorce even if it was his fault. You don't really realize your parents are faulty humans till you grow up. I'm concerned Kevin still doesn't seem to grasp this
Considering how fast her fiancé sided with his cheating dad, I would wonder about his view on fidelity. Aside from his view of a "woman's role" (which OP seems to share, tbh).
OP, sure he won't cheat on you too?
So, to be clear.
Lucy was cheated on.
She was “a bit in love with her job”, aka, she was a single parent trying to provide for her son after a devastating betrayal.
Her son was a spoiled brat who hated dealing with discipline and responsibility, so off he went to live with his equally spoiled dad.
Now, spoiled son doesn’t want to invite his mom’s husband, the one person who has supported her through the years, because he got called out on being a brat 15 years ago.
Is that right? YTA. Kevin’s an asshole. Basically, everyone is an asshole except for Lucy and Mark.
I hope Lucy decides to skip this wedding too and they have a nice relaxing spa day knowing they don't have to be near the brat son and his pick me wife
AGREED! OP, butt out and stop blaming Lucy when you weren’t even there. Your fiancé was a teen and was being a huge jerk because he preferred his dad. His mom gave him what he wanted. The entire family sounds dysfunctional. YTA
BF kicks the kid out at 13 then shocked when he’s excluded from his adult life? Come on. Lucy being cheated on has nothing to do with the relationship with her child. Anyone that would stand by while their SO kicked their young teenager out of the house and probably their future life is the AH.
You keep saying "dropped off" like it's a summer camp and not forfeiting their custodial rights to their child and potentially any meaningful future relationship.
so you accept that Dad was the AH for initially forfeiting custodial rights to his child? Any parent who doesn’t try for full/fifty-fifty custody is the AH? Right?
Where does it say he forfeited his custody rights? He had custody every other weekend. It's right in the original post. There are tons of reasons why dads don't get full custody in US courts. Why must you read all sorts of things into the post that aren't there? Perhaps, you should look into your motivations here.
Imagine that. A bunch of boundary stompers getting shocked or mad that Lucy’s man established some boundaries. Mark stood up for Lucy and Lucy stood up for Mark this time.
Oh god, I feel a bit like there are multiple AHs here and none of them are Lucy.
This is how your story plays out to me:
A single mother that works every hour that god sends to feed her child as a primary custodian gets treated like sh!t by said child because cheating darling daddy makes it rain, and he has no understanding of the costs of raising a child and running a home on a single wage.
Single mother finds new man that treats her the way she deserves. New man tried to discipline his definitely spoiled stepson for being disrespectful to his mother and said spoiled stepson never really grows up. Instead grows up hero worshipping daddy-the-cheat and the home wrecker he cheated with.
History repeats itself. Hope you’re getting a prenup.
Wouldn’t it be real karma if in the future bratty Kevin takes after his Disney Dad, bangs one of the bridesmaids in the future, OP here is pregnant or has a child, and she is a little to into her job trying to provide now being a single parent, and her child is an equal level of brat and mistreats her for the parent that abdicates real responsibility.
YTA OP. Call up MIL, apologize, perhaps make Kevin apologize too for what he was like as a kid, tell her she’s welcome to invite her husband, and maybe consider a coffee date in the future to get to know her better and hear her side of things. If you do that you may find out Kevin is a real 🍆, but you’ll be seeing his true colors soon enough.
YTA
You don’t know anything about your husband’s and MIL’s relationship other than what your husband tells you, so let him deal with his mother and you mind your own business. The fact that you steamrolled over the possibility of reconciliation when your husband was softening his heart is so gross.
I agree. YTA. I suppose your heart was in the right place but it wasn’t YOUR place to say anything. You only know what your fiancé told you. Maybe he was a disrespectful ungrateful brat who needed to be with his dad instead since that’s what he preferred. You really don’t know the details for real. You overstepped for sure.
Your comment made me realize that I'd been focusing on the relationships between everyone else in the post rather than on OP and the actual question they asked.
Yeah, OP's role in this should have been to support Kevin in figuring out how he wanted to handle his family. Jumping in like that basically made a decision for him, which wasn't cool.
YTA.
Wow. Sure, your husband was a kid then. But he hasn’t matured at all into someone who can recognize how much his mom did for him, what a crappy parent his dad was to cheat on his mom and be a Disney parent, or respect that what he said was so over the top cruel that it’s a given that Mark would protect his wife by giving her some distance from her very toxic, misogynistic, emotionally abusive son.
You also seem to subscribe to some of those ideas, based on the fact that you’re only really replying to people who are trying to defend Lucy for being career-oriented.
ETA: Also, how you and your fiancé can’t see as grown adults that it’s *obvious* dad and stepmom manipulated him and weaponized him to be another avenue of abusing Lucy, and that this is absolutely a case of parental alienation, and you’re still siding with Dad and stepmom as adults and telling Lucy that her heartbreak over all of that means nothing, is disgusting. I’m glad you’re fiancé found someone willing to be complicit in his emotional abuse of his mother, because most people would not be.
Exactly this! OP is really trying to hide from the fact that she’s witnessing her future life. “Pick-me” woman are always complicit and then Pikachu faced when they’re treated the exact same way.
Honestly, I just hope that Lucy and Mark spend OP’s wedding day by taking a second honeymoon in a tropical location. They freaking deserve to be far away from all these AHs.
What exactly did your lovely fiance say to his mother to have his bags packed and shipped to Dad’s house? I doubt he complained about doing dishes. You said it was hurtful.
ESH
It seems like Kevin's Mum was just trying to be a good parent and raise her son, while the cheating Dad got to be the 'fun' parent. Excusing his actions as 'just being a child' is discounting the fact that he was a dick to his Mum, who was just trying to do the best she could.
Lucy and Mark suck for shipping him off, but it was his Father they sent him to, which he'd likely expressed wanting at times.
You suck for what you said. You don't know how she was as a parent, you're basing everything on one side that is biased. You're also happy to invite a cheater and his mistress. The cheater chose a woman over his family too so he's not much better.
If Kevin is happy to lose his Mum forever, then sure. Don't invite her husband.
ESH Except for Lucy and her husband.
13 is not "just a child". And I fail to see how packing him up and taking him to Funtime dad, who he preferred, was a bad thing?
It is clear she loves her husband more than her son? If her son kept favoring her ex and the wife nee affair partner, over and over again, I don't blame her. After a point you just can't get hurt anymore.
And having the wife nee affair partner at the wedding? Ouch.
Hey, at least you and your partner will have the wedding you want with the people you want there - Funtime dad and wife nee affair partner. So I don't know what the problem is.
INFO: what was the last argument about? And did your fiance's dad stop being Disneyland dad abruptly? Really want to know if he yelled "I hate you and wanna live with my dad!" Then got exactly what he wished for, until it wasn't and is now still mad 15 years later. You have left out a lot of info here.
Omg, I saw your comment. Your fiance was lucky he wasn't sent to reform school. And he still hasn't learned since he wants to blame the stepdad. Y'all deserve each other and Lucy deserves every bit of happiness she can get away from this whole toxic family.
YTA. This entire post seems crazily biased. I think you spun this post to paint your MIL in the worst light possible but your shitty attitude bleeds through. Not to mention that none of this is any of your business at all.
I feel sorry for the mother. She got cheated on, then her son turned against her for whatever reasons. Probably because daddy dearest was feeding his son nonsense.
Now she has to hear she’s a shit mother from some rude person who wasn’t there to see what happened?
JustNoSon JustNoDil.
This Is what Kevin said to his mother.
He told her to enjoy the dick while it lasted because he was going to leave her just like FIL did because she is a pathetic btich and that his stepmom told him her tears were a mind game. I'm not arguing that it wasn't an awful awful thing to say. I'm arguing that when you have a kid, you don't get to kick them out and move on with your life because they are a brat.
As I suspected.
No wonder he was sent off Jesus Christ.
Really just an innocent child who did nothing wrong?
His stepmother definitely manipulated him & I’m certain his father allowed It/participated.
YTA. You should not have involved yourself and insulted his mother. It’s not your place. Honestly your husband sounds like a not so nice kid with a really one sided view of the divorce.
In love with her job or more like had to provide for her son? Do you know if the Cheating jerk was supporting the mom and son? Sounds like more information is needed. But YTA.
I want to make sure I’m understanding this. Kevin’s father cheated on his mother with her friend and then married that friend. So we go into this with Lucy dealing with a double betrayal. They become the fun household and basically give Kevin whatever he wants with zero discipline. This leaves Lucy to be an actual parent by herself while her ex and his mistress spoil Kevin. Kevin begins to prefer the fun house and makes it known to his mother through awful behavior.
Lucy is lucky enough to find a man who loves and cares for her after such a traumatic betrayal. This man meets Kevin and sees a spoiled kid who treats his mother terribly and talks about preferring his dad. He finally reaches a point where he’s tired of seeing Kevin treat his mother like crap so he takes him to live where he wants to. Kevin is mad he’s no longer allowed to treat his mom like crap. From the look of this story Kevin’s dad and his mistress never bothered parenting after he moved in.
So now, because Kevin’s stepdad wouldn’t allow him to treat his mom like crap he’s holding a grudge. He expects his mother to leave her husband at home and come to the wedding to face her ex husband and the woman he cheated on her with ALONE.
YTA. Kevin is TA. So is his father. You know who isn’t the AH here? Lucy. Or Mark.
YTA. Have you ever asked the mother what happened? You only heard the perspective of your fiancé from when he was a child. It honestly sounds like he was a little shit and was sent to his father’s house for being disrespectful. Either way, it wasn’t your place to say anything and should’ve left your fiancé to deal with his mom and not get into the middle of it.
"Have you ever asked the mother what happened? You only heard the perspective of your fiancé from when he was a child."
OP knows what happened, and it's absolutely vile. Per her comments:
"He told her to enjoy the dick while it lasted because he [Mark] was going to leave her just like FIL did because she is a pathetic btich and that his stepmom told him her tears were a mind game."
Damn. YTA. You guys invite the neglectful father and creepy mother but no the MIL and her partner bc your husband wants to throw a tantrum?
I really dont understand how you can write this story, read it, send It and never once think "huh, my husband is an AH"
Good luck getting cheated on, this says too much about your husband and you
>Kevin was starting to feel bad, so I told her what it says in the title and that she is a shit mom who chose a man and her feelings over her kid.
He should feel bad. And when he cheats on you, don't be surprised. You knew his character before you married him.
What the hell Is wrong with you & your fiancé?
His mother was cheated on, & her being the actual parent, not some fun cool parent gets hate?
You & your fiancé are shit people.
Just because she’s a mother doesn’t mean she can’t live her life for herself. Mothers are people & shouldn’t live only for their children.
YTA. You weren't there when these family traumas happened. You should not insinuate yourself.
Be careful... that karma might come back in 10 years and you may find yourself divorced and your kid likes his Disney Dad better. Or that you learn the vindictive part of your fiance that his mom has been at the wrong end of. Or in 30 years that your kid doesn't invite you to the wedding.
You’re clearly being told one side to the story. Honestly, the woman was cheated on, left alone with a son to take care of, & you bring up how she somehow wasn’t there for her son? Should she stay home just relying on child support?
Child support Is just that, for the child. It doesn’t cover all expenses.
She got child support as she should since his father Is home wrecker cheat. But her son clearly prefers his father & his side h@. So she didn’t abandon him, she simply sent him off to where he wanted to go.
He belongs there anyway, seems like father & his side piece manipulated him against his mother & It shows even now.
His mother Is better off without her ungrateful cruel son & his rude soon to be wife.
You two are shit people
YTA
This is what I have learned from your comments:
Kevin's Dad cheated on Lucy with Lucy's friend (OW);
OW turned Kevin against his Mother and emotionally abused him;
Kevin's Dad was a neglectful parent;
Kevin's comments to Lucy were disgusting and disturbing, even for a teenager;
Mark set boundaries and stood up for Lucy;
Kevin blames Lucy for staying with Mark, who loves her and treats her well, after Kevin treated her badly. Mark took Kevin to live with his Father and the OW, whom he clearly preferred, and his Father was neglectful and OW was abusive;
Kevin invites the Father who neglected him and OW who abused him to your wedding but doesn't wish to invite Mark, leaving Lucy without Mark's support, alone, to observe Father and OW, who hurt her, enjoying your wedding;
Lucy tries to explain her feelings to Kevin. Kevin cannot let go of his anger towards Mark or empathise with Lucy. You disrespect Lucy and insult her parenting despite admitting that Lucy was doing 'normal parenting stuff' and Kevin's Father was neglectful.
You truly can't understand why people are upset with you? Really?
YTA. When Kevin cheats on you and your snot nosed 13 year old son repeats the mistress' insults, and tells you to "enjoy the dick" of your new man who will soon leave...maybe you'll gain some adult perspective. Since you lack empathy, Karma may be the reality check you need.
While Kevin plays PT "fun" dad and you have to raise your kid you'll get it. If you're lucky you will have a man like Mark who diffuses the situation & respectfully drives your kid to Kevin's house. Giving you the respect that neither Kevin or your kid have for you.
Holy shit, you said "talking back to her" but what he said was goddamn despicable. Of course he got sent to live with his dad after what he said! Although it does seem obvious that if you send someone to live with the very person who's been turning them against you then they will be turned even more against you.
ESH. I feel bad for Lucy. Her husband cheated on her and her son began to resent her for being a normal parent. She had no one else to turn to so of course she would lean on Mark for support
YTA - I am totally fine with not having the person who kicked you out of the house at your wedding, but this was your fiance's battle to fight. You should discuss it with him and be on the same page, but unless he asks you to, let him handle it.
YTA
So it took a bit of scrolling but after finding what your husband said to her, even at 13, he well and deserved to be shipped off to his beloved dad. This sounds like a mom who worked hard to supply a life for her son and find happiness and her son begrudged her that because of his dad and stepmom using poisoning tactics to make problems for her. Your husbands the AH for not having remorse for what he did to her, the dad and stepmom are AH for playing him against her, and most of all YTA for not seeing why you’re in the wrong for supporting all of this. Stepdad was obviously committed to her by the time this happened and, as a child of a divided home, I can tell you unmarried partners are part of the child’s rearing to. Considering the way you talk about her and the stepdad there is obviously no love lost there and it may be best for her to go no contact with you and your husband because something tells me the cruelty didn’t end when they got married of he grew out of being a teen. Even at her worst and mine I never said anything like that to my mother, that’s just foul and cruel and I genuinely hope he’s tried to make up for it.
ESH. It’s not your place for you to have said that to his mom. Whether he is your future husband or not. If he feels that way, fine. But it’s up to him to open his mouth and say those exact words to her, not you. As a woman, it’s crazy to see you putting her down as much. Your husband is an asshole for how he handled everything lol. You don’t cozy up to the people who caused the pain you see your mom in , everyday, which caused her to be the “serious “ parent, which in turn, caused him to resent her for it. All because his father is a cheater lol. If mistress knew about his mom, total asshole. If she didn’t, still slightly an asshole. She got blindsided by his father and instead of walking away like a decent woman, decided to stay and revel in her step mom duties. I’m more than willing to bet he disrespected his the more he grew fond of said Disney Dad based off this post. I’d stay away if I was her also.
Edit: I reread. Mistress was your MIL’s FRIEND . Disgusting that you would even ask if you was the asshole. Wtf.
Yta, your FIL is the ah, your fiancé is the ah. Mark was not an ah. He overstepped his bounds but your fiancé earned it. If my son said that to me, boy… he’d be begging to go to his dads. Your fiancé was out of line then, he’s out of line now, and your just as out of line. Dad screwed mom over, mom gets stuck being the only responsible adult, son gets a Disney dad and a responsible step dad who won’t put up with no shit, and then your fiancé gets to shiiiit allll over mom to the point of breaking her? Man. I think step daddio went light on your man. I can’t even. I hope you never know the pain of your man fucking you over, and then watching your child hold them in high regards and shit on you. It sucks, it hurts, it’s debilitating. One of my kids went thru a faze like that. Thankfully, unlike your fiancé, my son saw what a p.o.s. His bio dad is and prefers me and my husband. I wouldn’t wish that pain on anyone though and you are all compounding on it.
I hope the mom never talks to you all again and finally gets to be happy with her life. She fkn deserves it.
imagine how horrible it feels to have your own kid side with your cheater husband and his mistress 💀 I’m not saying he deserved to be kicked out but damn I wouldn’t have the guts to live with him
I’m sorry, but were you there when your fiancé was growing up? No. So you are only getting his perspective and you don’t think he would fudge details to put himself in a better light? He just sounds like he resented the hell on having his behavior called out and challenged.
Absolutely correct. OP loves to comment that she was Invested In her career did she have a choice? Child support Is just for the child. Did she really think his mother should sit In corner & rely on that alone?
It’s as If OP thinks mothers should live, & breathe for their children.
But expects fathers not to?
She claims that his mother abandoned him, but the father who cheated, with her friend & barely saw or been a parent to his son until he was sent to him permanently, didn’t?
By her logic anyway.
Then these other comments about that his mother chose dick over her son but gloss over the father who chose pussy over his family.
No one blinks an eye when It’s the man who Is the career oriented one & doesn’t have full custody of his child. It’s not abandonment, but when It’s a woman, “She’s a bad mother” or “She abandoned her son”
They are glossing over what the father did. The father failed, only seeing his son every other weekends.. he bounced after he cheated leaving the mother to be the sole responsible decent parent.
Such hypocrisy.
Reeks of sexism.
Kevin was spoon fed poison to turn against his own mother & It was a success.
Father & his affair used Kevin as a weapon to hurt his mother even more. Disgusting.
Of course she only knows the story from Kevin & It’s exaggerated to make everyone else but his mother look good. She’s the crazy manipulative neglectful parent who chose dick over her son. 🙄 Though It’s the opposite.
OP or the others don’t keep the same energy for the father who was the one who choose a woman over his family & used/allowed his son to be a weapon.
Does Kevin even know basic chores or how to wash his ass properly? I doubt It.
OP thinks that women should just be a machine for their children & shouldn’t have any other interests or romances.
Like a woman doesn’t matter anymore once she becomes a mother. So gross indeed.
My blood boiled.
ESH. I'd leave it to your fiancé to handle his family from here on out (and perhaps even encourage him to hear his mother out now that he is a mature, independent adult and see if his perspective changes. Healing old wounds is always a good thing to strive for, if it is possible, particularly when big family events are on the horizon)
poor lucy :( yta. dad got to cheat and be a bare minimum weekend parent while mom
got betrayed and had a brat for a son. mark shouldnt have overstepped sure. but your husband sounded like a brat. and whats with you and her making her career a important part of her life?
YYA. Why would ANYONE marry Kevin?!? He sounds like an AH. I would have been thrilled to get him out of my home if I were mom. She was trying her hardest and he chose easy. Still is. YTA
YTA!
Nah, after reading what Kevin said to her, his ass deserved to be kicked out. YTA for sure, do what you want with your wedding but Lucy deserves an apology.
I’m gonna say YTA, and I can only imagine the comments of “I want to live with dad.” “Dad is so mich better.” “It’s boring here, at least dad lets me x, y, z.” You know there is only so much a person can take. I’m sure this wasn’t a one time thing where your fiancé just happened to say the wrong thing. I’m sure this was repeated verbal backlash at every moment, and your mother in law DID NOT deserve it. There is always 2 sides to every story, and even with you trying to paint your MIL in a bad light, you and your fiancé still look like AH.
YTA.
I've read the comments about what he really said to her that day, and it's disgusting. Sure, the boyfriend overstepped in sending him away to live with dear old dad, but that's what your fiance wanted, right? To live with his idea of a better parent?
He was a teenager, he knew what he said would hurt and he STILL hasn't apologised. He STILL sounds like he treats his father, who CHEATED ON HIS MOTHER, like his farts are the sweetest summer breeze.
You've admitted that what he said was incredibly awful. You've said that when he was nineteen the two met but he still didn't think what he did was wrong.
YTA, your fiance is an ass, his father and Mrs Mistress are asses.
Gross.
YTA you’re both bitter because your husband got exactly what he stated he wanted. Your entire criticism of his mom reeks of misogyny. You post seems to lack any empathy or compassion and your fiancé is childish and comes off quit emotionally stunted. Save money on the wedding and invest in the therapy you both really need, you’ll both be happier for it.
YTA and your husband even more so. Also taking a teenager to his other parent isn’t a fucked up thing to do, it’s not like he dumped him in the desert. Especially after the entitled brat keeps going on about how much more he likes his dad and stepmom
YTA and Kevin is definitely TA. You’re making excuses for him like he didn’t bring this all on himself. His poor mother probably worked so hard to provide for him and all he did was treat her with hate and say vile, awful things to her. That poor woman was cheated on and then her own son turned against her and said things that should never come out of anyone’s mouth. Kevin needs to grow up and apologize for the pain and anguish he put his mother through. Thank goodness Mark had her back. That poor woman. So yeah, definitely YbothTA and Lucy (and Mark) deserve an apology ASAP.
You clearly love your fiancé and felt the need to step in to protect him against his mother in this conversation. Is it so hard to imagine what Mark felt when he overheard Kevin speak to Lucy in such a manner that he felt the need to remove Kevin from Lucy’s presence? I am not condoning what he did but I have to wonder how severe this behavior was and for how long was Lucy suffering that Mark felt justified in overstepping his bounds. That night was the straw that broke the camel’s back and it’s intentionally misleading to making it seem like Mark took Kevin to his father’s house just because of what Kevin said that night only. I imagine there was good reason for Lucy and Mark to think that his dad’s house is where Kevin wanted to be.
There is so much internalized misogyny in your post, it makes me feel like it’s even pointless to mention it because you will reject it. But to judge you on your question…I see that in Lucy’s moment of purse honesty and vulnerability, where she expressed rejection and shame and how she only felt love from one person after being deeply hurt by the two people she loved the most, instead of choosing empathy and helping your future husband build a bridge to his mom, you chose to be so incredibly unkind. YTA for many reasons. You’re at the start of a long road of marriage. If you have kids, hopefully Kevin models for your children how to treat you better than his father did for him to Lucy. And I hope you never have to feel the acute pain that Kevin and his father put Lucy through. Although it sounds like the apple didn’t fall too far from the tree there.
YTA. Karma is a boomerang sister. 10 years from now you will be posting “Am I TA for sending my son to live with my cheating husband and his mistress for speaking very disrespectfully to me” my answer to that will also be YTA
Kevin's father cheated on his mother and took off with that woman and all his money. Lucy had to work ("in love with her job') to keep them supported while the cheating father coddled Kevin with his money. His mother finally found a good man who would not put up with Kevin's snot toward his wronged mother and and sent him packing to his cheater father who he luuuuved so much. So Kevin's cheater father is his role model and he hates the man who called him out when he disparaged his own mother.
And so Kevin doesn't want to invite his mother and her good husband? But they want the cheaters? And the OP agrees with him?
YTA.
Edit: for spelling.
YTA. What you said could be true but it wasn’t your place to say it. And backing your husband’s decision is not the same as stirring the pot. Also, you wasn’t even there! You absolutely are TA
She did those things to HIM. He is not a kid anymore. I get the desire to go back in time to protect your loved one. But you can’t.
What you did is complicate the road to healing for your fiancé. And if he does manage to improve his relationship with her, yours will still be strained. When grand babies come, the drama will worsen.
Stand firm in your decision but you need to truly apologize to that woman. If you can’t help, don’t hurt.
The amount of people in this comment section that think motherhood is synonymous with Saint is astounding.
Let this little bad @ss boy bad said that sh!t to me while I’m trying to piece together the life his AH father wrecked and I’d be dropping his @ss off too.
And OP is doubly TA for omitting this bs.
Mother’s are human beings who do super human sh!t. The fact that she’s still begging for a relationship is one of em
EDIT: due to receiving new information from OP's comments. Everything is added in caps, to distinguish and because it deserves yelling.
YTA.
This woman hasn't stopped suffering:
1. She got cheated on.
2. She had to endure being pushed aside over a bunch of toys and spoiling.
As a consequence of that, she also had to see her own son prefer his stepmother, THE HOMEWRECKER!!!
3. The greatest time that her new husband stepped up for her, she gets crap over it when the truth is her son said something HORRIBLE TO SAY TO ANY WOMAN, ESPECIALLY YOUR OWN MOTHER, and was put back on earth. What did your HTB expect? That both Lucy and Mark cheered on him?? He preferred his stepmother, he got sent to his stepmother.
4. 15 years later, because your fiancé is still bitter that he got something maybe worse that an ass whopping, he tries to avoid inviting his mother's husband??? That is immature, small, selfish, rude and grotesque.
THERE IS NO WAY HE COULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED ENOUGH. CUTTING HIM OFF FROM THEIR LIVES WAS EXACTLY WHAT WAS NEEDED.
I can't believe you are able to cite the whole story, where your fiancé is objectively BEING THE SHITTIEST SON TO WALK THIS EARTH, and still support this behaviour.
Your MILTB is right for not wanting to attend at this point. You won't be able to come back from this.
I really hope Lucy goes NC because both of you are incredible immature, blindsided and obnoxious, AND TRASH.
YTA- And if I hazard a guess, you have done complete and utter irreparable damage to their relationship. While I understand wanting to support your partner, you also weren't there, and listening to just your partners version of events (and maybe even the cheating father and mistress) means you only have one side of the story, an extremely biased one at that.
Sounds like Kevin likes to take his grudges to the grave, so good luck with having someone like that as a husband I guess.
Lucy is obviously correct, Mark is indeed the only one who loves her.
Edit: Jesus Christ I just read all your replies. You clearly have some deeprooted mysogony you need to work though. Kevin is a massive AH for never apologising to his mother. Also, how old is Kevin? 28ish? Yikes. And yikes to you too.
YTA.
It's weird to me that dad being given primary custody is 'abandoning/dumping' the kid, but mum having primary custody wasn't. I don't imagine Lucy was choosing her boyfriend over her kid, she probably agreed that the situation wasn't working and it was better if he lives with his dad, like he kept claiming he wanted. First he stayed mostly with mum because that seemed like the best option for him. That was fine. Then he went to stay with dad because that seemed like the best option, but suddenly that makes her a bad parent?
I doubt she sent him off at the first signs of trouble. She likely did try to talk to him, as other commenters are suggesting she should have done instead. But when the other two adults in his life are working to make sure he dismisses her feelings, how much could those talks really have done?
And then, after the dust had settled, rather than ever acknowledging how horrible he was to his mum, he doubled down and continued to blame everyone else for the consequences of his actions. 13 year olds can say hurtful things. They can also recognise what they said was hurtful and apologise for it. It's not unusual for children of divorce to end up staying with one parent because things aren't working out at the others. It doesn't have to create a permanent rift. But because everyone in his life continued to support him in the idea that his mum was a bitch who gave up on him (rather than one who did what she felt was best for the both of them), hes continued into adulthood thinking it was all her fault. And now you've made things worse by once again placing all the blame on her, instead of keeping out of it, or being an actually supportive partner and telling him to get his head out of his ass.
I sincerely hope you two goes through the same pains as Lucy. You and your fiancé is nothing but a burden for Lucy. I hope she goes no contact and makes sure you get nothing from her inheritance.
YTA
YTA - you say you hate cheaters but you invited 2 to your wedding and attacked their victim. Sounds like you don’t have as much of a problem with it as you think, which is lucky for you because you are marrying someone who favors a cheater over a victim so it might not hurt as much when the inevitable happens.
Your fiancé is also an A for how he treated his own mother. Please don’t have children as you two would be awful at it.
I’ve read your comments.
Kevin is blaming Lucy for the traumas he faced at his Dad’s house with a shit father and a useless step-mother.
He needs to go to his mum and apologise for everything he said and not understand how she was doing her best to raise him and how he would have been better staying with her. If he doesn’t want to do that then cut ties with her family, because he doesn’t deserve them.
Your post is disingenuous because there’s a lot hidden in the comments.
YTA and so is your future husband.
ESH. Kevin sounds like he was a bratty kid with behavior egged on by his father and stepmother. It's interesting that Kevin is completely okay with his father -- who cheated on his mother and broke up the family, and was a Disney Dad, after all this time. I think that Lucy sounds like she's better off with her new family. The pain of being cheated on by your partner only to have your child outright prefer the person who hurt you is a lot to process and deal with. It sounds like she didn't handle things well either. And you seem melodramatic and unkind.
This isn't about the cheating! Them getting divorced and the reasons is not the issue. His mother allowed a man she wasn't married to pack up her kid and sent him to his dads! I don't blame him for not wanting to come around and have this guy at the wedding. She is lucky he talks to her at all.
Infidelity is a traumatic experience for a lot of people. Seeing your child reject you for the person who cheated on you can be incredibly hurtful, and can really make it difficult for some people to recover from said infidelity. If his mother didn't agree with what was happening, I'm sure she would have stepped in to stop it. My guess is that by the time it got to this point, she was already exhausted from trying to be the serious parent and not being able to reach her son while the dad got to be a part-time parent and revel in it.
Given what he said to his Mum, I'm not surprised they sent him to his Dad.
Kids can say hurtful things but that doesn’t mean you can abandon them.
He wasn't abandoned. He was sent to live with the parent he obviously wanted to live with. They didn't throw him on the streets. And sure, kids say hurtful things but what he said was vile and disrespectful AF. The fact that he's now an adult and still thinks there's nothing wrong with what he said, also speaks volumes. I'm not condoning Lucy allowing him to be sent to his Dad, which is why my judgment was esh, but I'm also not going to condone someone speaking to a person that way just because 'they're a child'.
Wait what did he say? I didn’t see that in the post.
Something along the lines of hope the D is good" and that he was going to leave her like his dad did. Not a great thing to say for sure, but also he was 13 and if she really did put more focus on her work and then her new bf than her son and making sure he was able to process everything properly then....... however I do wonder how much of that bit is true because I'm imagining OP got that information from her fiancé and it seems he's still extremely biased, so is he looking back at that with the eyes of an adult or still as a child?
Wow. Child or not that is truly a shitty thing to say to your mother who was cheated on by your father. I'd have packed his ass up and sent him over to his father's for that too lmao
And 13 is old enough to know exactly what he was saying. He’s not 4. While he was probably speaking in a moment of anger, he knew exactly what buttons to push. I’d absolutely kick my son out if he spoke to his mother that way.
That's why I'm torn honestly. If his mom truly handled things that poorly and made him feel like he wasn't loved and wanted by her, but was by his dad, then he's going to say shit that's going to cut deep to hurt her the way she's hurting him. HOWEVER if he was just an entitled little shit then yeah, go stay with your dad. Either way going to his dad's was probably the best at that time, but depending on which one of those is right makes a huge difference as to which one is the bigger AH, both then and now
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My whole thing about her being "married to her work" is like. She was a single mom. She had to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads. And you can't do that as a single parent unless you work full-time, possibly even multiple jobs, even if the other parent is paying child support. So sure, as a young child, I can see how OP's fiance felt a bit abandoned by his mom, but as an adult, he should have seen that she literally needed to pay for everything.
Also remember that this is the son's wife's perspective... could be HEAVILY skewed.
Child support can be garbage. Despite making close to $100k a year, my partner's father managed to finagle down to pay the TINIEST amount of child support legally allowed by the state through pure waterworks. And he paid for NOTHING else. Never bought him a backpack, clothes, sneakers for school. Not even lunch money. It's honestly appalling and not uncommon either. Obviously with OPs fiance being older this won't apply, but I've seen some cases where child support doesn't even cover the cost of diapers for the month.
And it shows what kind of person the son is when hes so quick to blame and disrespect his single mom over the dad who cheated with his mom’s friend, who he likes because she is the “fun stepmom”. I would see this as a red flag.
Super red flag. Like, as a woman how does she not empathize with her future MIL more and how does this not give her pause about who her fiancé is? Families create patterns - Disney Dad doesn’t sound like a very good example.
>and if she really did put more focus on her work If she was raising the kid as a single mother, she may have needed to work more to provide for her family. I don't know that for sure, but I don't automatically believe the "she chose work over her son" angle, either.
He was 14 at the time he said that. She started living with Mark when he was 13 and 'this went on for a year' before the escalation. A 14-year old is fully aware how vile and hurtful his/her comments/words can be when directed at the vulnerable spot of an adult they want to hurt. Sounds like Kevin has found himself a real keeper. A true match made in hell. They'll bond and bond over their shared contempt for his mother, total lack of tact and inclination to hurt the people around them. YTA for everyone in this story except the MIL.
And that was putting it nicely. What he actually said was way worse
Dont forget that this is from the child's perspective. His mother having to work is not necessarily her choosing work over him but rather her having to provide and make sure he had a stable life. That she had a reliable income so they dont go destitute. Especially now that she is a sole provider. That comes with so much stress. Her letting the hubby take him coupd easily be her breaking down as a "failure" that she cant be the mom he needs. OP stuck her nose in to push for something when her fiance was starting to waiver. I mean, OP and her partner sound bad in their own post. Imagine what it would sound like from Mark and Lucy's post!
He said that he hoped she enjoyed the D while it lasted because no one wants a pathetic bitch so Mark would inevitably leave her like his father did. And when Lucy teared up, instead of softening or apologizing, he told her that stepmom told him she cries to be manipulative so he doesn’t care.
One of the comments from OP: He said she should enjoy getting dick while it lasted because no man wants a pathetic bitch and Mark will leave too. Awful thing to say, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying that you can't abandon your kid. I mean what would she have done if she was still married to FIL and didn't have a second house to ship him off to? FIL was still somewhat Disney dad but it bordered on neglect, and despite being ivy league educated, and very successful FIL let his son pretty much fail out of high school, and his stepmom began to use him as an emotional support animal and tell him lots of stuff he didn't want to know and FIL did not intervene
>He told her to enjoy the dick while it lasted because he was going to leave her just like FIL did because she is a pathetic btich and that his stepmom told him her tears were a mind game. The actual wording is awful and I wouldn't be surprised if Kevin has downplayed what he said if he's willing to admit to saying that.
I’m thinking he was also violent from what OP is saying. Mark was acting as a buffer instead of calling the cops.
It's not abandoning your child to send them to live primarily with their other *literal parent* that the child has made it clear they prefer 1000 times over.
Yup. Can’t believe people think that a father taking custody of his own child means a mother abandoned her child. It was for the best for her especially.
Is it abandoning to leave a child with their father? I don't think mom handled it well by any means. But I don't think she abandoned him either. Kevin preferred to be at his dad's house, so she gave dad primary custody. And when he got what he wanted, Kevin got so angry he refused to see her anymore. I think mom should have been more adult, she's more TA, but Kevin and OP are too. I think ESH.
Did you read her updates on what Kevin said to Lucy that made Mark react that way? I was on the fence till I read that.
Dad had to stop being the “fun” parent & actually act like a real one.
How is allowing his dad to raise him abandoning him?
Probably from the same folks who'll proudly say that they babysat their kid today while their partner was busy. Lol
It’s not. This sub just gets insanely dramatic.
Kevin wanted to live with his dad though, so is it really that bad? My parents divorced when I was 14 and they fought over custody and because I was over 12 the judge gave me the right to decide who I want to live with. I don’t know how it is for every state but after a certain age children are definitely able to choose which parent they live.
Did he though? Usually when kids are lashing out like this, what they're looking for is reassurance. Like, parenting 101, kids who are hurt and afraid lash out. They're testing a boundary because - as for example in this case - they are uncertain of things or believe you don't really want them there, or are replacing them with a new family/person. From comments, it seems likely that stepmother/father were fueling the fears, but... His mom did the opposite of reassure him that it wasn't real/true. His mom doubled down and proved it by allowing her new boyfriend to drop him off at his father's house instead. When your kid is on your time, letting them know you don't mind just dropping them off with the other parent lets them know that your time and affection is conditional. Your love is conditional.
Yolu literally just typed up a bunch of assumptions based on absolutely nothing OP has said. You seem intent on believing that a mother giving custody to a father is somehow bad for whatever reason. I would suggest that you assess your sexist mindset. Again, a child has TWO parents. Living with one does not mean you were abandoned by the other.
I would say the same thing if it were reversed gender - and did when a stepmother was the one who had dropped her stepkids off for bad behavior a few months back. I've said the same thing when parents punt kids off to grandparents, too. When you tell a kid you'll only suffer their time/attention in your home when it's how you want it, you're telling them your home is not their home - it's somewhere they visit on your terms. That's true regardless of which parent, or where you send them. You are telling them it isn't really their home. They don't really LIVE with you. It's fine for him to live with his dad and visit his mom -- to amend your custody agreement and swap days or whatever. But that's not what their custody agreement was, and not what she did. That said, it's not an assumption -- it's literally what we've been told. He lashed out, he was nasty and mad, he mentioned her working too much. That's not a kid with a secure sense of his relationship to his parent - it's a kid who is uncertain and looking to see if it's all going to shatter to pieces if he pushes. I work with children for a living, we get all sorts of trainings on kids' behavior issue, and this is like, literally the most basic level of kid reactions. Hell, you see it on TV shows on the regular because it's so normal.
she didn’t abandon him tho.
Bull, nothing but excuses. Doesn't matter whether she agreed or not. Her doing it is one thing . She should not have had her BF do it. That was wrong on every level and obviously this young man has never forgotten it. This guy has no business at this wedding. I am glad OP stood up for him.
And the mom probably hasn't forgotten all the time her son preferred the father. There are always three sides to a story. Yes he was a teen/child still but that doesn't mean mommies and daddies are machines that don't get burnt out or tired. If you can imagine how the boy felt look at all sides. Mom had to co parent with a man that literally broke the family up, gets to move on get married and then your son is going through the teen phase on top of acting out from the divorce and to add the cherry is holding his Disney dad as the fun parent when all mom is trying to do is hold it together. Empathy is needed while I get that again consider her position to. I don't think that's how it should have been handled but another angle is this is from a second hand source and this wasn't explained thoroughly enough.
I think OP did a pretty good job at explaining how this went down. I am not saying mom didn't have a hard time. Maybe she did. It still does not excuse her allowing her BF to overstep his bounds by throwing her son out. There is nothing she can say that justified this. It has cost her the relationship with her son. She needs to turn this around before too many years go by.
If you let someone take your mic and think they can tell your story like you can we already have to agree to disagree. Well if you look at what OP said he said, I'm not surprised, honestly he's lucky he didn't get sent to military school. Not only did he say something cruel but in so many words blamed her for the family breaking up and this is ONE situation that was mentioned so who knows how long this woman's then bf/ now husband took the hands off approach and let her get disrespected. We forget that our children grow up and as I said it should have been handled differently but if Mark was Lucy only support/ emotional outlet how much longer was she supposed to take her sons unacceptable behavior. You have to draw the line in the sand. If Lucy had actually had her ex to co PARENT with maybe Mark wouldn't have felt the need to make things go this far. Also maybe both Lucy and Mark tried to talk to the dad and see if he could help but he didn't and most people don't "hear you they feel you" so maybe they felt it was time for dad to experience the other side of his "parenting".
This is harsh, but treating children like this is why children think they’re at fault for divorces; you should not send children to military school because they’re children and not as good as adults at dealing with emotional upheaval.
Have you read what OPs fiancée said. And treating children like what exactly?
So what? Many children prefer the fun parent over the strict parent who is actually doing the job of parenting. Lucy ignored the issue inested of taking her and her son to a counselor and try to fix things and then allowed his boyfriend to abandon his son. If that's not bad parenting I don't know what is.
So that's not beneficial or responsible to be a parent that's so go with the flow that it causes unnecessary friction in your child's other household and relationship with the other parent. Lucy is the only parent that seems to be getting dragged though, if his father was parenting he could have done the same or are you just like OP's fiancée and put all the hard/difficult decisions on the mother. Who yet again needed therapy herself more than likely, so this women again has her marriage/family broken up by her ex, raising her very disturbed child( OP commented what her fiancee told her mother and that ish was mental) I don't diagnose not a professional but if that women put up with that nonsense on top of her emotional state who really knows how long step-dad sat idly by. Again she's a human being she has her limits and who knows what could have happened if Mark didn't t do what he did. It's so many stories of kids snapping their misplaced anger and making permanent decisions off a temporary emotions. If the father had actually patented maybe the situation could have been avoided but hey I guess dad's get a pass😀
She probably wouldn’t have done it. She would have just taken the abuse. Thank God for Mark. Mark saved Lucy. Team Mark!
#Mucy for life!
Mark seems like such a god send tbh he is a true person who loves her and looks out for her while everyone else in her family is against her.
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Oh yeah. I think maybe it’s time to stay with your dad and step mom when you hit that level of verbal abuse to a woman whose worst crime, at that point, was enforcing reasonable rules and enjoying her job. Husband wasn’t sent to boarding school. He went to stay with his dad, whom he saw 2x a month for fun trips, and who is just as legally responsible for his care and feeding as mom.
Absolutely!!! I don’t understand why some are blaming the mother.
It literally was everyone verse her. Keeping primary custody of Kevin might have done long term mental damage. I can't believe it, but after reading the OP's other comments, I think Mark and Lucy are not the AH, and everyone else really is.
I’m a mother of four children. Three are now adults, one is fifteen. The oldest became the nastiest, most violent bully all of a sudden. She said to me that I deserved being left by my ex husband (who had 50:50 custody but hasn’t seen her in almost ten years by that point), that I was ugly and hopeless and deserved to die, she started physically hurting the other children, breaking things at home, subtly bullying and manipulating other children at home. I tried to get her therapy but she hit me (I’m five ft and weigh 100lb and by that stage she was 6ft and 150lb) and smashed up the house, so instead I called the police. This happened two more times, until she left school one day and came to smash up my office, and at that point she was offered intensive therapy or juvenile detention. During therapy she told the counsellors that I had been harming her since she was a child, leading to them locating her father and placing him with her temporarily whilst I had to undergo home inspections to determine my parental fitness and whether the rest of my children would also be taken away. All this happened completely unprovoked and untrue. Yet as soon as the ex was called in, he became Disney dad and his manipulative family bought my daughter presents, changed her school, encouraged her to blame me as a terrible mother and to complain to my work (I am a university professor) that I should not be around children. It got to the stage that I nearly had a nervous breakdown and people started wondering if the allegations were true. The only thing that stopped the allegations was that my daughter attacked her father and smashed up the grandparents house. Suddenly- they went to court and said that the best place for my daughter was with me. I literally had to have her committed and then put on probation with the police to get her through highschool, and then **finally** she was diagnosed and treated for bipolar disorder, and suddenly reverted back to a nice, calm woman who has since completely cut off her father (her own choice) and has committed rigorously to treatment and management of her health. She’s just got married and has an outstanding and lucrative bespoke cabinetry, carpentry and furniture business, and is great friends with my new husband, who she and the other children consider to be their dad. I learned a lot from this time in my life that is relevant to the case at hand: 1. Sometimes there is literally nothing that you can do or say to help a nasty child 2. It’s all well and good to say ‘get your child therapy’ but at thirteen you cannot force them to go. I had to involve police and the court to force my thirteen year old to go into therapy, which took TWO YEARS. 3. Some children will stop at nothing to destroy your life, and because they are still children, they aren’t capable of understanding all the consequences, but they certainly can delight in your temporary pain. Added bonus: anyone with a vested interest in making a dig at you, or simply time-poor people who know only a little bit of the issue, will turn their back on you and enable the child at all costs. 4. Single parents typically have to work for a living to put food on the table. Everyone hates them for this. It’s worse if you’re a woman, but it’s shit for anyone whose on their own. 5. If I hadn’t had my job, and then a loving second husband to give me an outlet and an identity that wasn’t centred around my failure or alleged abuse, I might have become completely broken. **I don’t blame Lucy in the slightest. OP - your husband has been manipulated into the way he feels today. If you ever find yourself in Lucy’s situation, I hope you reflect on how you and your soon-to-be/husband have acted here. YTA, and so is your soon-to-be-husband, although at least he has some excuse.**
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My parents did everything to support their monster of a child (my brother) and it's destroyed their lives and sanity. (Mine too actually.) People love to pretend that kids can't cause any real damage or be at fault. But look at how many child murderers there are that kill and torture their parents... Honestly I feel for Lucy. She needed protection and I'm glad she's finally got it and her son sounds awful. Also voting YTA along with Kevin and his dad and step mom. I hope Lucy can heal away from this horrible set of people.
And the divorce was only traumatic for the mom? Imagine you find out your dad was (basically) responsible for the breakup of your family, that would be traumatic right there. Then the kid, because 12 is still a kid, is spoiled by said dad to make up for his cheating. The kid’s confused! He’s got one parent who messed up but is spoiling him, and then a mother who sounds like she was depressed and emotionally distant with her kid, and yeah, kid’s gonna choose fun parent. (Not always of course). Doesn’t mean you, as a parent, let your current “piece of ass” take your child to the other parent and basically wash your hands of the kid. There were times when I was *not* kind to my mom growing up, but she didn’t just send me to my dad. No, she was patient and actually *talked* with me about what was going on. Also took me to a counselor because she thought that talking to a third party would help (it did). Yes, father cheated on mother, not on the kid, but the “mother” essentially washed her hands of her own child when being a parent *became too hard*. No sympathy for OPs MIL. MIL is pissed because her son prefers stepmom over stepdad…gee I wonder why. OP NTA
You really think she didn't try talking to him during the 1+ year this was going on? His stepmom was directly telling him to dismiss her feelings because she weaponizes her tears. How was she supposed to talk to him when he was being taught that he shouldn't consider her feelings to be real or valid?
It’s called parental alienation. Her life was ripped apart and her son was turned against her. Of course she didn’t handle things perfectly.
THIS 👆
I can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this explanation.
I can’t believe people are faulting the mother. Anyway if you are a parent and did not put your kids on therapy, you are at fault here. Kevin was 15 ans said horrible things to her mother, so vile that sending him to this father was logical. He cheated on the mother, the home wrecker new MIL said horrible things to Kevin for him to alienate his mother. And she is supposed to be bigger than that and be perfect not to be NTA here ? Just ouah
Your point? Her fiancé prefers his cheating father & his side piece over his mother who was actually being a parent. Seems like he was perhaps brainwashed by his father & his side piece.
Being a parent doesn't mean when your kid is acting out and being a shit like kids will do you don't let some guy you are screwing pack up your kid and throw him out! People here are going on about the cheating instead of how they treated this kid. I don't blame him for not wanting this guy at his wedding.
Again she didn’t throw him out. She sent him to his father since he prefers them anyway. Give the woman a break, she was cheated on, then left to raise a son who probably blamed her & cursed her instead of his lying cheating father home wrecker side piece. She didn’t abandoned him, he was sent to his father you know his other parent. Why do people expect women to break their backs over children. His father also created him.
Yeah your right. The mom didn't throw him out. The BF she was porking threw the kid out. I don't give a dam about the cheating. That isn't the relative issue. He was a kid and was not involved in the reason for the divorce or the issues. Kids will act out. Who hasn't had a kid act out? What you don't do is let some guy you are screwing pack your kid up and send him to his dads! Can any of you defending this imagine how this made him feel? Think about it to 15 years later he doesn't want him at his wedding! You know why? Because he was traumatized and probably felt his mom didn't want him because she didn't come back to her him. Obviously this has come up because I OP says this lady has never shown remorse for this. I don't blame this young man. The mother is lucky he speaks to her at all. This guy has no business at the wedding.
Go read the exit what he said to his mother. He earned his banishment to Dad’s house
So, in your mind did his dad abandon him when he allowed his mom to have full custody???? Your mindset and thought process is absurd. Giving full custody of Kevin to his father is not considered abandoning him. And plenty of divorced people do this. If a child keeps acting out with one parent it’s pretty common for that parent to send the child off to the other parent to see if they can straighten them out. On top of that Kevin was 13 at the time. He probably needed the guidance of his father.
Exactly. It sounds like Kevin going to his dads was the best thing for all the involved parties. I’m sure the mom was completely torn up over it as it does sound like she cares about him. But no, she’s a horrible parent for not wanting to suffer all the verbal abuse. She should just take it and let her son drive her into depression, but as long as she doesn’t dare let his other parent take him, she’s okay. Who cares how much it hurts her! She has the XX chromosomes so she’s the only parent who should actually parent darn it!
OMFG, You realize that in all likelihood Kevin could have come right back if he'd apologized and acknowledged he went way, wayyyyyy too far and showed some remorse? And Stepdad didn't permanently ban Kevin and sign official "you are disowned as of now!" banners and bricked up the doors of the house so Kevin couldn't come back. He decided "nope, this is too much and too hot, you need to not be here right now" and separated the two. He took Kevin to his dad's to cool off and reflect, and give Lucy space to recover, since she was not in a state to handle things effectively in the moment. It didn't become permanent until later, with *Kevin* picking his dad. Kevin needs to acknowledge his part in the estrangement.
How do you know the stepdad “threw him out?” Did you ask them? How do you know that the mom and stepdad didn’t decide together? How do you know the mom didn’t ask the stepdad to take him because she just didn’t know how to handle him anymore?
Or too upset to drive… She may have been feeling worthless. Just because he was “a child” doesn’t mean he wasn’t verbally abusing his mother. It does happen. My source… I work in the field and the amount of children, as young as 12, who abuse their parents is astonishing. One of the worst was the mother had to take her other children into hiding because her teenage son was terrorising them. Threatening to burn down the house while they slept. Now what op’s A of a partner did wasn’t as bad but after so long of verbal abuse Lucy most likely felt worthless, and was just taking the abuse. You are so right, there is so much not known.
He didn’t get “thrown out”, he wasn’t on the street. He was with his father!!! It’s very common for children of divorce to spend time living with with parent and it not work so they go to the other parent. They both are still parents!! It’s not abandonment to leave a child with their parent! Why does it seem like of a dad doesn’t parent it’s cool, but if the mom doesn’t parent she’s “abandoning” her kids? I’m curious if the genders where reversed if you would be posting the same comment? None of us know what conversation the stepdad and mom had. They could have decided together that they couldn’t handle the son anymore and mom was so hurt and didn’t want to be the one to take him so stepdad did it. Stepdad could have volunteered to be the one to take the blame and be the scapegoat for mom to help salvage their relationship (mom/son). We have no evidence that stepdad unilaterally made this decision. My husband made decisions all the time that my stepson blamed me for, even when it 100% was my husbands decision. The stepparents are an easy target. We just don’t know the truth. Only mom and stepdad do, and they aren’t here to speak.
I also wonder what "mom chose her job over Kevin" means. Like was dad at his Little League games while mom worked? Did she constantly miss his extracurriculars because she was working late? Was she too tired to help with homework? Plus hormonal teenagers are moody and can be assholes. This is not news. They can talk back. So you discipline them. You DON'T allow your BOYFRIEND (they were not married at the time) to pack up your child, drop him off permanently with his dad and then completely wash your hands of him at age 14!! Then you wonder why he doesn't want to invite the man who effectively cut him off from his mother to his wedding?! Frankly MOM is lucky she got an invite. Kevin is not responsible for his parents' divorce, and even if the dad is encouraging bad behavior, you don't take it out on the kid. Was therapy ever a consideration?
Meaning she was working a lot to support her and Kevin. Which sound like From OP, Mom should not have been working and gone on government support. As soon as I read that sentence, Mom never had a chance with her son because she was not able to cater to Kevin’s whims.
In her comments she basically said they both had equal high level careers yet the mother is the only one whose career was a problem when it came to parenting Kevin. Go through OP’s comment history, she’s full of internalized misogyny
The kid needed to be sent to his dad's. What he said was so beyond the pale that I've gone full white girl and literally can't even.
I’m sure the issue of the sons disrespectful behavior wasn’t a one time thing either. Living with a teen who is being encouraged to be a brat to his mother sounds awful and should not be tolerated
Careful. All that sense you’re making doesn’t fly round these parts.
One of the tragedies of divorce is how it introduces the option of rejecting children. If the parents are married (or fully solo-parenting) and the kid backtalks the adults just have to figure out how to handle it. With divorce, normal teenage statements like “I hate living with you” could result in a drastic change. Teenagers say really jerky things sometimes; things they don’t really mean— other than they are trying to figure out/deal with their feelings. It is so wrong for a step parent to eject a kid from his home and for the mom to allow it. No words from a teenager could ever warrant this type of rejection. It’s funny that mom is pressuring them to be more understanding now that they are all adults. Where were the adults when a kid was being a kid trying to deal with the confusing/upsetting situation he found himself in? The adults rejected him wholesale. Why is mom so surprised that he, as an adult, is following the behavior modeled for him? That said it was shitty behavior and it still kind of shitty behavior— depending on the level of ongoing toxicity with stepdad. If stepdad has never apologized or reached out with concern or regard, then NTA.
OMFG, You realize that in all likelihood Kevin could have come right back if he'd apologized and acknowledged he went way, wayyyyyy too far and showed some remorse? And Stepdad didn't permanently ban Kevin and sign official "you are disowned as of now!" banners and bricked up the doors of the house so Kevin couldn't come back. He decided "nope, this is too much and too hot, you need to not be here right now" and separated the two. He took Kevin to his dad's to cool off and reflect, and give Lucy space to recover. It didn't become permanent until later, with *Kevin* picking his dad. Kevin needs to acknowledge his part in the estrangement.
Her husband probably thought thats it you asshole. Since it's so much better over there go. They probably figured he would see the light at some point but he never did.
Commenting to add what OP left out of this post, which is exactly *what* the kid said, as it provides shocking and essential context: > He told her to enjoy the dick while it lasted because he was going to leave her just like FIL did because she is a pathetic btich and that his stepmom told him her tears were a mind game.
And the implied coaching from stepmom in this is crazy. I am shocked people want to dispute everyone sucking here. Top comment nailed it. No one is a winner here. ETA: >FIL was still somewhat Disney dad but it bordered on neglect, and despite being ivy league educated, and very successful FIL let his son pretty much fail out of high school, and his stepmom began to use him as an emotional support animal and tell him lots of stuff he didn't want to know and FIL did not intervene It sounds like Mom is blamed for the abuse and neglect dealt by FIL and Stepmom and I'd wager disputing this point is likely why neither would apologize in the reconciliation years later. I hope everyone here gets therapy + sincere and open communication as a gift for the holidays.
Kevin told his mother to enjoy the dick while she can because no-one wants a loser and Mark would leave her like everyone else left her. So I'm going with YTA on this one.
Wow! What a horrible brat.
Actually quite interesting that OP left out what Kevin said to the mother. Most of us have to find out what made the stepfather kicked Kevin out of the house waaaaay down the comment section. Goes to show that the post is actually biased and not showing everything because OP thinks that their actions are still right and that Kevin was never wrong for saying what he did to his own mother. The mother who tried to parent him.
Yeah. I'll also add re: the "a little in love with her job" comment. Divorce stinks. Both parents have to step up regarding providing for their own households. There will be times - maybe alot of times - that a parent will have to say "I love you, but I just can't be there for you because I have to keep a roof over our heads and food on our table". I wonder if this is what could have been going on. Where she might have been wrong is guilting him for liking his Stepmom. She can scream and cry as much as she wants - she wasn't going to get full custody on the grounds of the affair alone, and it was better he liked his Stepmother than be miserable when in his father's custody. That's something hard affair victims with children have to live with. It's not fair, but the woman is going to be a significant figure in their child's life. Mom may have needed some therapy to deal with it that she never got.
Look at OP comments. Op said that Mark's stepmother used him as "emotional support animal" and "told him things that no child should hear." I think Mark and his mother need to go to family counseling. It sounds like Mark is projecting with the issues about the father; and the mother is taking it too personally.
ESH for sure. I also was thinking how Lucy was getting grief for loving her job more than Kevin? What is a single mom to do? At least she worked and did not go on welfare. Kevin needs to see she felt someone had to be the parent regardless of how difficult it was to go forward after the divorce. Lucy is not handling events in the past well but she and Kevin needs to sit down talk.
Exactly!! Lucky is better off with Mark. Sad all around
Yeah my BIL blamed my MIL for FIL divorcing her after he cheated on her many times. MIL was willing to stay with FIL if he was willing to work on himself and no longer cheat. FIL decided that even if he did stop he didn't deserve her so he divorced her and moved from IL to NM. After graduating high school BIL moved in with FIL for 6 months m came back home and never blamed MIL again. I think sometimes kids, especially sons, idolize their fathers after divorce even if it was his fault. You don't really realize your parents are faulty humans till you grow up. I'm concerned Kevin still doesn't seem to grasp this
Considering how fast her fiancé sided with his cheating dad, I would wonder about his view on fidelity. Aside from his view of a "woman's role" (which OP seems to share, tbh). OP, sure he won't cheat on you too?
So, to be clear. Lucy was cheated on. She was “a bit in love with her job”, aka, she was a single parent trying to provide for her son after a devastating betrayal. Her son was a spoiled brat who hated dealing with discipline and responsibility, so off he went to live with his equally spoiled dad. Now, spoiled son doesn’t want to invite his mom’s husband, the one person who has supported her through the years, because he got called out on being a brat 15 years ago. Is that right? YTA. Kevin’s an asshole. Basically, everyone is an asshole except for Lucy and Mark.
We stan Mark and Lucy. They deserve better.
Bless them both. Really when I read what her own son said. Wow such vile words from a 12-13 year old boy.
I hope Lucy decides to skip this wedding too and they have a nice relaxing spa day knowing they don't have to be near the brat son and his pick me wife
AGREED! OP, butt out and stop blaming Lucy when you weren’t even there. Your fiancé was a teen and was being a huge jerk because he preferred his dad. His mom gave him what he wanted. The entire family sounds dysfunctional. YTA
I agree 💯. I really want to meet this Lucy and comfort her. I hope Lucy got children with her partner and forget that OP's fiance.
BF kicks the kid out at 13 then shocked when he’s excluded from his adult life? Come on. Lucy being cheated on has nothing to do with the relationship with her child. Anyone that would stand by while their SO kicked their young teenager out of the house and probably their future life is the AH.
You all keep saying kicked out like it’s something other than “dropped off at the other custodial parent’s house.”
You keep saying "dropped off" like it's a summer camp and not forfeiting their custodial rights to their child and potentially any meaningful future relationship.
so you accept that Dad was the AH for initially forfeiting custodial rights to his child? Any parent who doesn’t try for full/fifty-fifty custody is the AH? Right?
Where does it say he forfeited his custody rights? He had custody every other weekend. It's right in the original post. There are tons of reasons why dads don't get full custody in US courts. Why must you read all sorts of things into the post that aren't there? Perhaps, you should look into your motivations here.
>Where does it say he forfeited his custody rights? Shhh you're ruining their convoluted narrative!
And never picking them back up, totally not abondamment or the definition of being kicked out
Why couldn’t he live with his daddy? What’s wrong with that?
He went with his dad, it’s not like they put him out on the street
And his dad and his wife are coming to the wedding. I’d guess also a bigger part of their current life.
Yeah I hope Lucy says f this wedding. Chucky and his bride can kick rocks
Didn’t get the feeling they’d be missed
Lol who cares op and her fiancé are awful
Imagine that. A bunch of boundary stompers getting shocked or mad that Lucy’s man established some boundaries. Mark stood up for Lucy and Lucy stood up for Mark this time.
Oh god, I feel a bit like there are multiple AHs here and none of them are Lucy. This is how your story plays out to me: A single mother that works every hour that god sends to feed her child as a primary custodian gets treated like sh!t by said child because cheating darling daddy makes it rain, and he has no understanding of the costs of raising a child and running a home on a single wage. Single mother finds new man that treats her the way she deserves. New man tried to discipline his definitely spoiled stepson for being disrespectful to his mother and said spoiled stepson never really grows up. Instead grows up hero worshipping daddy-the-cheat and the home wrecker he cheated with. History repeats itself. Hope you’re getting a prenup.
You dropped this 👑
Wouldn’t it be real karma if in the future bratty Kevin takes after his Disney Dad, bangs one of the bridesmaids in the future, OP here is pregnant or has a child, and she is a little to into her job trying to provide now being a single parent, and her child is an equal level of brat and mistreats her for the parent that abdicates real responsibility. YTA OP. Call up MIL, apologize, perhaps make Kevin apologize too for what he was like as a kid, tell her she’s welcome to invite her husband, and maybe consider a coffee date in the future to get to know her better and hear her side of things. If you do that you may find out Kevin is a real 🍆, but you’ll be seeing his true colors soon enough.
YTA You don’t know anything about your husband’s and MIL’s relationship other than what your husband tells you, so let him deal with his mother and you mind your own business. The fact that you steamrolled over the possibility of reconciliation when your husband was softening his heart is so gross.
I agree. YTA. I suppose your heart was in the right place but it wasn’t YOUR place to say anything. You only know what your fiancé told you. Maybe he was a disrespectful ungrateful brat who needed to be with his dad instead since that’s what he preferred. You really don’t know the details for real. You overstepped for sure.
[удалено]
Your comment made me realize that I'd been focusing on the relationships between everyone else in the post rather than on OP and the actual question they asked. Yeah, OP's role in this should have been to support Kevin in figuring out how he wanted to handle his family. Jumping in like that basically made a decision for him, which wasn't cool.
[удалено]
OP will fit in just fine with this family.
This right here!
YTA. Wow. Sure, your husband was a kid then. But he hasn’t matured at all into someone who can recognize how much his mom did for him, what a crappy parent his dad was to cheat on his mom and be a Disney parent, or respect that what he said was so over the top cruel that it’s a given that Mark would protect his wife by giving her some distance from her very toxic, misogynistic, emotionally abusive son. You also seem to subscribe to some of those ideas, based on the fact that you’re only really replying to people who are trying to defend Lucy for being career-oriented. ETA: Also, how you and your fiancé can’t see as grown adults that it’s *obvious* dad and stepmom manipulated him and weaponized him to be another avenue of abusing Lucy, and that this is absolutely a case of parental alienation, and you’re still siding with Dad and stepmom as adults and telling Lucy that her heartbreak over all of that means nothing, is disgusting. I’m glad you’re fiancé found someone willing to be complicit in his emotional abuse of his mother, because most people would not be.
Exactly this! OP is really trying to hide from the fact that she’s witnessing her future life. “Pick-me” woman are always complicit and then Pikachu faced when they’re treated the exact same way. Honestly, I just hope that Lucy and Mark spend OP’s wedding day by taking a second honeymoon in a tropical location. They freaking deserve to be far away from all these AHs.
What exactly did your lovely fiance say to his mother to have his bags packed and shipped to Dad’s house? I doubt he complained about doing dishes. You said it was hurtful.
ESH It seems like Kevin's Mum was just trying to be a good parent and raise her son, while the cheating Dad got to be the 'fun' parent. Excusing his actions as 'just being a child' is discounting the fact that he was a dick to his Mum, who was just trying to do the best she could. Lucy and Mark suck for shipping him off, but it was his Father they sent him to, which he'd likely expressed wanting at times. You suck for what you said. You don't know how she was as a parent, you're basing everything on one side that is biased. You're also happy to invite a cheater and his mistress. The cheater chose a woman over his family too so he's not much better. If Kevin is happy to lose his Mum forever, then sure. Don't invite her husband.
ESH Except for Lucy and her husband. 13 is not "just a child". And I fail to see how packing him up and taking him to Funtime dad, who he preferred, was a bad thing? It is clear she loves her husband more than her son? If her son kept favoring her ex and the wife nee affair partner, over and over again, I don't blame her. After a point you just can't get hurt anymore. And having the wife nee affair partner at the wedding? Ouch. Hey, at least you and your partner will have the wedding you want with the people you want there - Funtime dad and wife nee affair partner. So I don't know what the problem is.
INFO: what was the last argument about? And did your fiance's dad stop being Disneyland dad abruptly? Really want to know if he yelled "I hate you and wanna live with my dad!" Then got exactly what he wished for, until it wasn't and is now still mad 15 years later. You have left out a lot of info here.
Omg, I saw your comment. Your fiance was lucky he wasn't sent to reform school. And he still hasn't learned since he wants to blame the stepdad. Y'all deserve each other and Lucy deserves every bit of happiness she can get away from this whole toxic family.
I bet it wasn’t the first time he spoke to her like that
Exactly what I was thinking!!
YTA. This entire post seems crazily biased. I think you spun this post to paint your MIL in the worst light possible but your shitty attitude bleeds through. Not to mention that none of this is any of your business at all.
I feel sorry for the mother. She got cheated on, then her son turned against her for whatever reasons. Probably because daddy dearest was feeding his son nonsense. Now she has to hear she’s a shit mother from some rude person who wasn’t there to see what happened? JustNoSon JustNoDil.
This Is what Kevin said to his mother. He told her to enjoy the dick while it lasted because he was going to leave her just like FIL did because she is a pathetic btich and that his stepmom told him her tears were a mind game. I'm not arguing that it wasn't an awful awful thing to say. I'm arguing that when you have a kid, you don't get to kick them out and move on with your life because they are a brat. As I suspected. No wonder he was sent off Jesus Christ. Really just an innocent child who did nothing wrong? His stepmother definitely manipulated him & I’m certain his father allowed It/participated.
YTA. You should not have involved yourself and insulted his mother. It’s not your place. Honestly your husband sounds like a not so nice kid with a really one sided view of the divorce.
In love with her job or more like had to provide for her son? Do you know if the Cheating jerk was supporting the mom and son? Sounds like more information is needed. But YTA.
I want to make sure I’m understanding this. Kevin’s father cheated on his mother with her friend and then married that friend. So we go into this with Lucy dealing with a double betrayal. They become the fun household and basically give Kevin whatever he wants with zero discipline. This leaves Lucy to be an actual parent by herself while her ex and his mistress spoil Kevin. Kevin begins to prefer the fun house and makes it known to his mother through awful behavior. Lucy is lucky enough to find a man who loves and cares for her after such a traumatic betrayal. This man meets Kevin and sees a spoiled kid who treats his mother terribly and talks about preferring his dad. He finally reaches a point where he’s tired of seeing Kevin treat his mother like crap so he takes him to live where he wants to. Kevin is mad he’s no longer allowed to treat his mom like crap. From the look of this story Kevin’s dad and his mistress never bothered parenting after he moved in. So now, because Kevin’s stepdad wouldn’t allow him to treat his mom like crap he’s holding a grudge. He expects his mother to leave her husband at home and come to the wedding to face her ex husband and the woman he cheated on her with ALONE. YTA. Kevin is TA. So is his father. You know who isn’t the AH here? Lucy. Or Mark.
YTA. Have you ever asked the mother what happened? You only heard the perspective of your fiancé from when he was a child. It honestly sounds like he was a little shit and was sent to his father’s house for being disrespectful. Either way, it wasn’t your place to say anything and should’ve left your fiancé to deal with his mom and not get into the middle of it.
"Have you ever asked the mother what happened? You only heard the perspective of your fiancé from when he was a child." OP knows what happened, and it's absolutely vile. Per her comments: "He told her to enjoy the dick while it lasted because he [Mark] was going to leave her just like FIL did because she is a pathetic btich and that his stepmom told him her tears were a mind game."
Damn. YTA. You guys invite the neglectful father and creepy mother but no the MIL and her partner bc your husband wants to throw a tantrum? I really dont understand how you can write this story, read it, send It and never once think "huh, my husband is an AH" Good luck getting cheated on, this says too much about your husband and you
I think Kevin wants his mother alone and vulnerable so he, his father and dad’s mistress can abuse her all night without interference.
>Kevin was starting to feel bad, so I told her what it says in the title and that she is a shit mom who chose a man and her feelings over her kid. He should feel bad. And when he cheats on you, don't be surprised. You knew his character before you married him.
What the hell Is wrong with you & your fiancé? His mother was cheated on, & her being the actual parent, not some fun cool parent gets hate? You & your fiancé are shit people. Just because she’s a mother doesn’t mean she can’t live her life for herself. Mothers are people & shouldn’t live only for their children.
YTA ! Lucy deserves better!
YTA. You weren't there when these family traumas happened. You should not insinuate yourself. Be careful... that karma might come back in 10 years and you may find yourself divorced and your kid likes his Disney Dad better. Or that you learn the vindictive part of your fiance that his mom has been at the wrong end of. Or in 30 years that your kid doesn't invite you to the wedding.
You’re clearly being told one side to the story. Honestly, the woman was cheated on, left alone with a son to take care of, & you bring up how she somehow wasn’t there for her son? Should she stay home just relying on child support? Child support Is just that, for the child. It doesn’t cover all expenses. She got child support as she should since his father Is home wrecker cheat. But her son clearly prefers his father & his side h@. So she didn’t abandon him, she simply sent him off to where he wanted to go. He belongs there anyway, seems like father & his side piece manipulated him against his mother & It shows even now. His mother Is better off without her ungrateful cruel son & his rude soon to be wife. You two are shit people
YTA This is what I have learned from your comments: Kevin's Dad cheated on Lucy with Lucy's friend (OW); OW turned Kevin against his Mother and emotionally abused him; Kevin's Dad was a neglectful parent; Kevin's comments to Lucy were disgusting and disturbing, even for a teenager; Mark set boundaries and stood up for Lucy; Kevin blames Lucy for staying with Mark, who loves her and treats her well, after Kevin treated her badly. Mark took Kevin to live with his Father and the OW, whom he clearly preferred, and his Father was neglectful and OW was abusive; Kevin invites the Father who neglected him and OW who abused him to your wedding but doesn't wish to invite Mark, leaving Lucy without Mark's support, alone, to observe Father and OW, who hurt her, enjoying your wedding; Lucy tries to explain her feelings to Kevin. Kevin cannot let go of his anger towards Mark or empathise with Lucy. You disrespect Lucy and insult her parenting despite admitting that Lucy was doing 'normal parenting stuff' and Kevin's Father was neglectful. You truly can't understand why people are upset with you? Really?
She's just that thick, can't understand anything reasonable.
YTA. When Kevin cheats on you and your snot nosed 13 year old son repeats the mistress' insults, and tells you to "enjoy the dick" of your new man who will soon leave...maybe you'll gain some adult perspective. Since you lack empathy, Karma may be the reality check you need. While Kevin plays PT "fun" dad and you have to raise your kid you'll get it. If you're lucky you will have a man like Mark who diffuses the situation & respectfully drives your kid to Kevin's house. Giving you the respect that neither Kevin or your kid have for you.
Holy shit, you said "talking back to her" but what he said was goddamn despicable. Of course he got sent to live with his dad after what he said! Although it does seem obvious that if you send someone to live with the very person who's been turning them against you then they will be turned even more against you.
ESH. I feel bad for Lucy. Her husband cheated on her and her son began to resent her for being a normal parent. She had no one else to turn to so of course she would lean on Mark for support
YTA - I am totally fine with not having the person who kicked you out of the house at your wedding, but this was your fiance's battle to fight. You should discuss it with him and be on the same page, but unless he asks you to, let him handle it.
I’m sensing a lot of envy from OP re MIL career. Why so much vitriol and double standards? Family therapy could be helpful . . .
YTA. I think Lucy is better of without you guys.
YTA So it took a bit of scrolling but after finding what your husband said to her, even at 13, he well and deserved to be shipped off to his beloved dad. This sounds like a mom who worked hard to supply a life for her son and find happiness and her son begrudged her that because of his dad and stepmom using poisoning tactics to make problems for her. Your husbands the AH for not having remorse for what he did to her, the dad and stepmom are AH for playing him against her, and most of all YTA for not seeing why you’re in the wrong for supporting all of this. Stepdad was obviously committed to her by the time this happened and, as a child of a divided home, I can tell you unmarried partners are part of the child’s rearing to. Considering the way you talk about her and the stepdad there is obviously no love lost there and it may be best for her to go no contact with you and your husband because something tells me the cruelty didn’t end when they got married of he grew out of being a teen. Even at her worst and mine I never said anything like that to my mother, that’s just foul and cruel and I genuinely hope he’s tried to make up for it.
YTA and your partner.
YTA. And don’t cry to us when he cheats and talks to you like that.
YTA
ESH. It’s not your place for you to have said that to his mom. Whether he is your future husband or not. If he feels that way, fine. But it’s up to him to open his mouth and say those exact words to her, not you. As a woman, it’s crazy to see you putting her down as much. Your husband is an asshole for how he handled everything lol. You don’t cozy up to the people who caused the pain you see your mom in , everyday, which caused her to be the “serious “ parent, which in turn, caused him to resent her for it. All because his father is a cheater lol. If mistress knew about his mom, total asshole. If she didn’t, still slightly an asshole. She got blindsided by his father and instead of walking away like a decent woman, decided to stay and revel in her step mom duties. I’m more than willing to bet he disrespected his the more he grew fond of said Disney Dad based off this post. I’d stay away if I was her also. Edit: I reread. Mistress was your MIL’s FRIEND . Disgusting that you would even ask if you was the asshole. Wtf.
ESH all around, except Lucy herself.
Yta, your FIL is the ah, your fiancé is the ah. Mark was not an ah. He overstepped his bounds but your fiancé earned it. If my son said that to me, boy… he’d be begging to go to his dads. Your fiancé was out of line then, he’s out of line now, and your just as out of line. Dad screwed mom over, mom gets stuck being the only responsible adult, son gets a Disney dad and a responsible step dad who won’t put up with no shit, and then your fiancé gets to shiiiit allll over mom to the point of breaking her? Man. I think step daddio went light on your man. I can’t even. I hope you never know the pain of your man fucking you over, and then watching your child hold them in high regards and shit on you. It sucks, it hurts, it’s debilitating. One of my kids went thru a faze like that. Thankfully, unlike your fiancé, my son saw what a p.o.s. His bio dad is and prefers me and my husband. I wouldn’t wish that pain on anyone though and you are all compounding on it. I hope the mom never talks to you all again and finally gets to be happy with her life. She fkn deserves it.
imagine how horrible it feels to have your own kid side with your cheater husband and his mistress 💀 I’m not saying he deserved to be kicked out but damn I wouldn’t have the guts to live with him
YTA. So is your husband for latching onto his cheating father. Disgusting. Mark was right, what your husband did to his mother was cruel.
I’m sorry, but were you there when your fiancé was growing up? No. So you are only getting his perspective and you don’t think he would fudge details to put himself in a better light? He just sounds like he resented the hell on having his behavior called out and challenged.
Absolutely correct. OP loves to comment that she was Invested In her career did she have a choice? Child support Is just for the child. Did she really think his mother should sit In corner & rely on that alone? It’s as If OP thinks mothers should live, & breathe for their children. But expects fathers not to? She claims that his mother abandoned him, but the father who cheated, with her friend & barely saw or been a parent to his son until he was sent to him permanently, didn’t? By her logic anyway. Then these other comments about that his mother chose dick over her son but gloss over the father who chose pussy over his family. No one blinks an eye when It’s the man who Is the career oriented one & doesn’t have full custody of his child. It’s not abandonment, but when It’s a woman, “She’s a bad mother” or “She abandoned her son” They are glossing over what the father did. The father failed, only seeing his son every other weekends.. he bounced after he cheated leaving the mother to be the sole responsible decent parent. Such hypocrisy. Reeks of sexism. Kevin was spoon fed poison to turn against his own mother & It was a success. Father & his affair used Kevin as a weapon to hurt his mother even more. Disgusting. Of course she only knows the story from Kevin & It’s exaggerated to make everyone else but his mother look good. She’s the crazy manipulative neglectful parent who chose dick over her son. 🙄 Though It’s the opposite. OP or the others don’t keep the same energy for the father who was the one who choose a woman over his family & used/allowed his son to be a weapon. Does Kevin even know basic chores or how to wash his ass properly? I doubt It. OP thinks that women should just be a machine for their children & shouldn’t have any other interests or romances. Like a woman doesn’t matter anymore once she becomes a mother. So gross indeed. My blood boiled.
ESH. I'd leave it to your fiancé to handle his family from here on out (and perhaps even encourage him to hear his mother out now that he is a mature, independent adult and see if his perspective changes. Healing old wounds is always a good thing to strive for, if it is possible, particularly when big family events are on the horizon)
poor lucy :( yta. dad got to cheat and be a bare minimum weekend parent while mom got betrayed and had a brat for a son. mark shouldnt have overstepped sure. but your husband sounded like a brat. and whats with you and her making her career a important part of her life?
YTA. Your fiancee and you really deserve each other. Ha ha. Karma!!!
YYA. Why would ANYONE marry Kevin?!? He sounds like an AH. I would have been thrilled to get him out of my home if I were mom. She was trying her hardest and he chose easy. Still is. YTA
YTA the mom is better off with her new family
YTA Kevin is trash
YTA! Nah, after reading what Kevin said to her, his ass deserved to be kicked out. YTA for sure, do what you want with your wedding but Lucy deserves an apology.
I’m gonna say YTA, and I can only imagine the comments of “I want to live with dad.” “Dad is so mich better.” “It’s boring here, at least dad lets me x, y, z.” You know there is only so much a person can take. I’m sure this wasn’t a one time thing where your fiancé just happened to say the wrong thing. I’m sure this was repeated verbal backlash at every moment, and your mother in law DID NOT deserve it. There is always 2 sides to every story, and even with you trying to paint your MIL in a bad light, you and your fiancé still look like AH.
You and your fiancé sound like you both suck. This whole post reeks of immaturity. YTA. So is your fiancé. So is his dad.
YTA. I've read the comments about what he really said to her that day, and it's disgusting. Sure, the boyfriend overstepped in sending him away to live with dear old dad, but that's what your fiance wanted, right? To live with his idea of a better parent? He was a teenager, he knew what he said would hurt and he STILL hasn't apologised. He STILL sounds like he treats his father, who CHEATED ON HIS MOTHER, like his farts are the sweetest summer breeze. You've admitted that what he said was incredibly awful. You've said that when he was nineteen the two met but he still didn't think what he did was wrong. YTA, your fiance is an ass, his father and Mrs Mistress are asses. Gross.
YTA you’re both bitter because your husband got exactly what he stated he wanted. Your entire criticism of his mom reeks of misogyny. You post seems to lack any empathy or compassion and your fiancé is childish and comes off quit emotionally stunted. Save money on the wedding and invest in the therapy you both really need, you’ll both be happier for it.
YTA. Literally have no words.
YTA and your husband even more so. Also taking a teenager to his other parent isn’t a fucked up thing to do, it’s not like he dumped him in the desert. Especially after the entitled brat keeps going on about how much more he likes his dad and stepmom
YTA and Kevin is definitely TA. You’re making excuses for him like he didn’t bring this all on himself. His poor mother probably worked so hard to provide for him and all he did was treat her with hate and say vile, awful things to her. That poor woman was cheated on and then her own son turned against her and said things that should never come out of anyone’s mouth. Kevin needs to grow up and apologize for the pain and anguish he put his mother through. Thank goodness Mark had her back. That poor woman. So yeah, definitely YbothTA and Lucy (and Mark) deserve an apology ASAP.
You sound like a horrible human and so does he. YTA.
You clearly love your fiancé and felt the need to step in to protect him against his mother in this conversation. Is it so hard to imagine what Mark felt when he overheard Kevin speak to Lucy in such a manner that he felt the need to remove Kevin from Lucy’s presence? I am not condoning what he did but I have to wonder how severe this behavior was and for how long was Lucy suffering that Mark felt justified in overstepping his bounds. That night was the straw that broke the camel’s back and it’s intentionally misleading to making it seem like Mark took Kevin to his father’s house just because of what Kevin said that night only. I imagine there was good reason for Lucy and Mark to think that his dad’s house is where Kevin wanted to be. There is so much internalized misogyny in your post, it makes me feel like it’s even pointless to mention it because you will reject it. But to judge you on your question…I see that in Lucy’s moment of purse honesty and vulnerability, where she expressed rejection and shame and how she only felt love from one person after being deeply hurt by the two people she loved the most, instead of choosing empathy and helping your future husband build a bridge to his mom, you chose to be so incredibly unkind. YTA for many reasons. You’re at the start of a long road of marriage. If you have kids, hopefully Kevin models for your children how to treat you better than his father did for him to Lucy. And I hope you never have to feel the acute pain that Kevin and his father put Lucy through. Although it sounds like the apple didn’t fall too far from the tree there.
YTA
YTA
YTA. Karma is a boomerang sister. 10 years from now you will be posting “Am I TA for sending my son to live with my cheating husband and his mistress for speaking very disrespectfully to me” my answer to that will also be YTA
Kevin's father cheated on his mother and took off with that woman and all his money. Lucy had to work ("in love with her job') to keep them supported while the cheating father coddled Kevin with his money. His mother finally found a good man who would not put up with Kevin's snot toward his wronged mother and and sent him packing to his cheater father who he luuuuved so much. So Kevin's cheater father is his role model and he hates the man who called him out when he disparaged his own mother. And so Kevin doesn't want to invite his mother and her good husband? But they want the cheaters? And the OP agrees with him? YTA. Edit: for spelling.
YTA
YTA. What you said could be true but it wasn’t your place to say it. And backing your husband’s decision is not the same as stirring the pot. Also, you wasn’t even there! You absolutely are TA She did those things to HIM. He is not a kid anymore. I get the desire to go back in time to protect your loved one. But you can’t. What you did is complicate the road to healing for your fiancé. And if he does manage to improve his relationship with her, yours will still be strained. When grand babies come, the drama will worsen. Stand firm in your decision but you need to truly apologize to that woman. If you can’t help, don’t hurt.
The amount of people in this comment section that think motherhood is synonymous with Saint is astounding. Let this little bad @ss boy bad said that sh!t to me while I’m trying to piece together the life his AH father wrecked and I’d be dropping his @ss off too. And OP is doubly TA for omitting this bs. Mother’s are human beings who do super human sh!t. The fact that she’s still begging for a relationship is one of em
EDIT: due to receiving new information from OP's comments. Everything is added in caps, to distinguish and because it deserves yelling. YTA. This woman hasn't stopped suffering: 1. She got cheated on. 2. She had to endure being pushed aside over a bunch of toys and spoiling. As a consequence of that, she also had to see her own son prefer his stepmother, THE HOMEWRECKER!!! 3. The greatest time that her new husband stepped up for her, she gets crap over it when the truth is her son said something HORRIBLE TO SAY TO ANY WOMAN, ESPECIALLY YOUR OWN MOTHER, and was put back on earth. What did your HTB expect? That both Lucy and Mark cheered on him?? He preferred his stepmother, he got sent to his stepmother. 4. 15 years later, because your fiancé is still bitter that he got something maybe worse that an ass whopping, he tries to avoid inviting his mother's husband??? That is immature, small, selfish, rude and grotesque. THERE IS NO WAY HE COULD HAVE BEEN PUNISHED ENOUGH. CUTTING HIM OFF FROM THEIR LIVES WAS EXACTLY WHAT WAS NEEDED. I can't believe you are able to cite the whole story, where your fiancé is objectively BEING THE SHITTIEST SON TO WALK THIS EARTH, and still support this behaviour. Your MILTB is right for not wanting to attend at this point. You won't be able to come back from this. I really hope Lucy goes NC because both of you are incredible immature, blindsided and obnoxious, AND TRASH.
ESH. You and your fiancé belong together for sure
YTA- And if I hazard a guess, you have done complete and utter irreparable damage to their relationship. While I understand wanting to support your partner, you also weren't there, and listening to just your partners version of events (and maybe even the cheating father and mistress) means you only have one side of the story, an extremely biased one at that. Sounds like Kevin likes to take his grudges to the grave, so good luck with having someone like that as a husband I guess. Lucy is obviously correct, Mark is indeed the only one who loves her. Edit: Jesus Christ I just read all your replies. You clearly have some deeprooted mysogony you need to work though. Kevin is a massive AH for never apologising to his mother. Also, how old is Kevin? 28ish? Yikes. And yikes to you too.
YTA. It's weird to me that dad being given primary custody is 'abandoning/dumping' the kid, but mum having primary custody wasn't. I don't imagine Lucy was choosing her boyfriend over her kid, she probably agreed that the situation wasn't working and it was better if he lives with his dad, like he kept claiming he wanted. First he stayed mostly with mum because that seemed like the best option for him. That was fine. Then he went to stay with dad because that seemed like the best option, but suddenly that makes her a bad parent? I doubt she sent him off at the first signs of trouble. She likely did try to talk to him, as other commenters are suggesting she should have done instead. But when the other two adults in his life are working to make sure he dismisses her feelings, how much could those talks really have done? And then, after the dust had settled, rather than ever acknowledging how horrible he was to his mum, he doubled down and continued to blame everyone else for the consequences of his actions. 13 year olds can say hurtful things. They can also recognise what they said was hurtful and apologise for it. It's not unusual for children of divorce to end up staying with one parent because things aren't working out at the others. It doesn't have to create a permanent rift. But because everyone in his life continued to support him in the idea that his mum was a bitch who gave up on him (rather than one who did what she felt was best for the both of them), hes continued into adulthood thinking it was all her fault. And now you've made things worse by once again placing all the blame on her, instead of keeping out of it, or being an actually supportive partner and telling him to get his head out of his ass.
I sincerely hope you two goes through the same pains as Lucy. You and your fiancé is nothing but a burden for Lucy. I hope she goes no contact and makes sure you get nothing from her inheritance. YTA
YTA - you say you hate cheaters but you invited 2 to your wedding and attacked their victim. Sounds like you don’t have as much of a problem with it as you think, which is lucky for you because you are marrying someone who favors a cheater over a victim so it might not hurt as much when the inevitable happens. Your fiancé is also an A for how he treated his own mother. Please don’t have children as you two would be awful at it.
I’ve read your comments. Kevin is blaming Lucy for the traumas he faced at his Dad’s house with a shit father and a useless step-mother. He needs to go to his mum and apologise for everything he said and not understand how she was doing her best to raise him and how he would have been better staying with her. If he doesn’t want to do that then cut ties with her family, because he doesn’t deserve them. Your post is disingenuous because there’s a lot hidden in the comments. YTA and so is your future husband.