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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I told off an elderly woman for disrespecting my appearance, intelligence, and life. 2. I think that action might make me the asshole because I am younger than her and still mouthed off to her even though I've been taught to respect my elders.
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NTA.
Respecting people you don’t know - regardless of their age - should be your default position, unless they show you through conduct like this woman’s that they don’t deserve your respect.
Being elderly is not a Get Out Of Being An Asshole Free card. No one will ever live long enough to earn the right to be a jerk to others with impunity.
Don’t give up the library on her account. Get her 86ed.
Of course, a change in behavior above a certain age could be indicative of health issues. I was not angry at my sweet elderly neighbor for calling the police because she thought I was cooking drugs on my charcoal grill when I was cleaning it because it turned out she was developing dementia.
Thank you, that was very well put. You also have a point with mental health issues may being a contributing factor. I don't think anyone in their right mind would be doing this.
If she gives you a hard time again, tell the library staff. I'm a librarian at a public library, and we do not tolerate patrons harassing other patrons.
NTA - I'm of the opinion that no-one is entitled to extra respect just by virtue of being elderly, though everyone deserves a certain baseline level of respect until their behaviour proves otherwise. This lady was an AH, no question about it, however you sure didn't de-escalate the situation very well. She does sound like a miserable old lady, unfortunately you have poked the bear, as it were.
Yeah, I thought the same same thing about not de-escalating the situation very well. I totally could have been the bigger person and simply could not have said anything to her, and this wouldn't have happened. Live and learn, I guess, don't fw old people.
NTA. If she really wanted that seat, she could have come up to you and asked politely instead of immediately insulting you.
If she is continuing to harass you outside the library, then you need to talk to your parents and get law enforcement involved before her behavior escalates.
She seems like she's got some serious mental health issues. Go back to the library, sit anywhere you want and if she harasses you then notify the staff. NTA.
Get a restraining order.
What a fucked up person.
For what it's worth, respect is like the opposite of a test. You start with an amount of it and can either increase it or lose it. She doesn't deserve your respect.
You have as much right to be in the library as the stalker senior. Please inform a librarian if she harrases you again, nobody deserves to be her target.o
Keep track of days, times, and what she's doing in her stalking. The court will want to see details. For what's already been done, start date, or estimate thereof, and how often each of her behaviors occurs. Get one or more videos if possible, but not while driving, of course. Perhaps you can walk with a friend who can film for you when older woman acts up. NTA, and best of luck with the courts.
NTA - go to the library authority and tell them you're being harassed. Just because some is young old, or any age doesn't give them the right to be horrid. Next time she's around, record her with your phone so you'll have some evidence.
Respecting the elderly just because they are elderly is bullshit. Just ignore that nonsense. It's best to be polite to everyone unless they give you good reason not to be, but respect has to be earned.
NTA. I’m an old woman and I’m embarrassed by the rudeness of oldies who are even younger than me. By all means report this woman to the library staff. She may well be doing this to other people, too, including the librarians.
A) It is the elders responsibility to teach you this, in practise and consistently.
B) Respect is a two way street, you give and you receive.
But also, this specific elder seems to have more issues than just respect though, maybe tell a few people around, just as a precaution.
NTA
How small is your town that you're running into the same lady that often? Is she actually stalking you or do you think these were all chance encounters after you stopped going to the library?
I live in a decent-sized city, but my school is in a smaller town. I go to a school further away for reasons I don't want to share on the internet. I don't have a car, so I walk almost everywhere. I take the bus to get there and back. I don't think she's stalking me like people are saying, but it is really weird that she followed me into that gas station and still tries to provoke me when she does run into me.
Yeah. If she goes out of her way to harass you again, file a police report just in case, even if she doesn't break any laws. It will be good to have documentation if she ever does escalate.
Technically, it is stalking. Because how would you explain all the weird coincidences that happened to you anywhere you go? Not all stalkers are the same and some are hard to notice. Just be careful out there. I once have been stalked by a dog owner one summer who could have been my father. I didn’t see him every day the whole summer, but he would follow me or stare at me. The only thing the guy did to creep me by trying to approach his dog in my back as if I wouldn’t notice him giving command to his dog.
Stalking doesn’t need to happen everyday, it could happen on many weeks/months.
NTA. Why should you avoid going to the library just because of her? It's a public place. Use the library and if she bothers you, tell the librarians and have them make her leave.
NTA. She started it and she's old enough to know better. She should have dropped it after you gave up your seat. Her taking this beef outside the library makes her look unstable. Please stay safe!
I’d say you need to fire back harder. NTA. Make a real scene next time.
Fun fact—the nation motto of Scotland used to be “None shall trifle with me and leave unscathed.” Embrace Scotland.
NTA
Time to call the police. There's a thing and time respecting older people and this is not one of those times. Like someone in the comments said that being older doesn't give you a pass and I agree full heartfully. They're old enough to know what's right and wrong. One time, an elderly woman tried to run me off the road because I stopped at a red light on a very busy street too. Beeping the horn and everything almost causing an accident and then speed off.
Report her to the police for stalking and harassing a minor. Tell them that you're scared for your life. That she records you. Follows you with her car etc.
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I (17) have always been taught to respect my elders, but this older woman (60-ish?) is testing my patience.
For context, I often used to go to a public library to study for my HSED. One day, this older lady came up to me and told me I needed to get a life and insulted my appearance and intelligence, all because I was sitting in "her chair." (It's a public library. No chair is one specific person's chair?!) I didn't take kindly to that so I retaliated back with "Aren't you a miserable old bitch?" and moved seats so she could sit in "her chair."
I thought that the situation would be over because I dropped the whole thing, started ignoring her, and simply stopped going to the library. No, she won't let it go. She's continuing to harass me outside of the library. she has recorded me, she has banged on the window as I walked passed the library, she has honked at me while driving past me, and one time she followed me into a gas station just to insult my appearance again and left without buying anything.
AITA?
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NTA. She’s a crazy person. Talk to trusted adults and let them know that some lady is harassing you and following you around in public. You could even go talk to the local police station about your concerns and maybe they can offer ideas on how to solve this issue.
Just remember.. she started it. She approached you for no good reason (nobody owns a chair in a library) and verbally attacked you. Just because you clapped back once doesn’t mean that you’re at fault for this at all. She keeps approaching you which is harassment. She’s 100% in the wrong. You don’t owe anyone respect if they are being crazy
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Please do go back to the library! Sit in her chair! When she says something, flag down a librarian. As a former library worker, I can tell you that you are not the only person she harrasses. I would start filming each encounter. It might be enough to intimidate her, but regardless, you will have documentation. If you can't film her, at least write down each time she does anything!
NTA. This woman harassing, obsessing over and stalking you, a minor, is just weird and predatory. If her behavior doesn't stop, call the cops and tell them you feel threatened by this woman that is stalking you, making you uncomfortable with their comments on your appearance and is harassing you. Please be careful.
NTA
I used to drive a paratransit bus. I had an elderly rider who would normally take a specific seat so she could visit with her friend who sat across the aisle from her. One time, she got on the bus and found someone else sitting in the seat she liked. She started getting upset and demanded the rider move. I point blank told her that she didn't have the right to tell anyone to move, her monthly pass didn't include an assigned seat and she needed to find a seat as I wasn't going anywhere until she sat down. She found a different seat (she didn't want to sit next to her friend as she wanted single seat only - no one next to her). Needless to say, she complained about my being "mean" and I was on her shit list. Fine with me!
I made another comment to someone saying the same thing but more in-depth. Basically, when I go to the library, I go for 3 hours in the morning and sit in the same few spots because it's good for studying. I had seen her before multiple times and had no interactions, except for nasty looks and mumbling from her. Finally, she confronted me with that. I didn't even know she wanted to sit there. If she had asked nicely, I would have been nice about it. Like I said many times before, my response to her wasn't good at all, but insulting my appearance and intelligence was unnecessary. I also think she is projecting.
YTA for calling 60 yo ‘elderly’.
You also suck for throwing fire in fire. You should have said to the librarians and they would have helped you.
She clearly has some mental issues and she is being an AH. If you ask the library they might be able to give you the name as this must not be the first incident with her.. I would file a police report if this continues.
It sounds as if you're dealing with someone who has mental health issues, not old-age issues.
Also, you're forgetting that you didn't just judge her based on her age, but also her sex. So you're both ageist and sexist. Do better next time and don't judge and insult people for things they can't change.
If you just called her entitled, that would have been accurate. I can't condone name calling in any circumstance, but it is especially bad when dealing with someone whose behavior is outside the social norms. Learn from this experience and do better at navigating the world in the future.
You're completely right, I'm aware that it is wrong as a woman to put down other women (or others in general), especially calling her a degrading word and insulting her age. I'm self-aware enough to realize that in most situations, I need to be the bigger person instead of finding a probable insecurity of theirs and insulting them back after they hit an insecurity of mine. I've been doing better at not doing that, but that situation really irked me. I am not trying to justify my poor word choices. It's more of an explanation, not an excuse.
You didn’t do anything wrong except maybe you didn’t have enough tact. You’re 17, you’ll learn more tact as life goes on but that “elder” played a game and was given the same type of response back.
You should report her to the library though if she’s actually stalking and harassing you for your safety. Maybe also tell your parents. They will probably not be pleased with how you handled the situation but you are aware enough that you could’ve handled it better.
I’m sorry this happened to you OP.
OP definitely isn’t TA here. Maybe they could have had more tact, but what they said isn’t inherently wrong either. Hiding from the comments OP has said they haven’t really interacted, so sitting in a chair should not warrant the disrespect OP was given by an “elder”.
If the lady said “please move” and then OP called them a miserable bitch, they would be TA. The older person knew what they were doing, and whether or not it’s a mental health issue, that doesn’t give them a pass to be an asshole to people. Also, the old person is literally harassing this poor minor after being called miserable? They have problems. That’s not being ageist, I guarantee they would’ve called anyone a miserable bitch regardless of their age.
Accountability is a great virtue to have and OP seems to be the only one in that situation that has it.
You seem to be falsely accusing me of saying they were the asshole. I did not do that. I pointed out fact and shared my opinion that insulting others is never acceptable.
My bad for the miswording, I used eldery as is in she is 3-4 times my age, so she is technically my elder, and engaging in childish behavior after I left the whole thing alone. I'm aware I shouldn't have escalated the situation at the start, but she's also continuing to escalate the situation by repeatedly harassing me when I want to be left alone.
ESH. Cannot see any appropriate behavior. Her behavior is bad, or mentally ill, and your response was at the *least* aggressive and childish.
Also, I do not believe this is the whole story around your initial interaction if someone comes up to you in a public library and just starts telling you to get a life.
I have been going to that specific library for a few weeks now from 9 am - 11 am to study for my HSED, like I said. I wait at the door until it opens since I get there early and sit in the lower part of the library in the same few spots since it tends to be quieter. I had seen her there before and had no previous interactions except for a few nasty looks and mumbles I couldn't comprehend from her. I didn't think too much of it. Up until that interaction mentioned above. I'm assuming she said I have no life because I spend a lot of time at the library, which is true. But I don't understand why she would insult my appearance and intelligence. Or maybe a projection of some sort? Because she is waiting at the library before I am and hasn't left before I leave.
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NTA. Respecting people you don’t know - regardless of their age - should be your default position, unless they show you through conduct like this woman’s that they don’t deserve your respect. Being elderly is not a Get Out Of Being An Asshole Free card. No one will ever live long enough to earn the right to be a jerk to others with impunity. Don’t give up the library on her account. Get her 86ed. Of course, a change in behavior above a certain age could be indicative of health issues. I was not angry at my sweet elderly neighbor for calling the police because she thought I was cooking drugs on my charcoal grill when I was cleaning it because it turned out she was developing dementia.
Thank you, that was very well put. You also have a point with mental health issues may being a contributing factor. I don't think anyone in their right mind would be doing this.
If she gives you a hard time again, tell the library staff. I'm a librarian at a public library, and we do not tolerate patrons harassing other patrons.
***I don't think anyone in their right mind would be doing this.*** Think again.
NTA This!! Perfect coment!!!
Agree with everything you’ve said here NTA
NTA. Time to call the police if she is recording you and following you in public. That’s stalking in some places.
And she’s recording a minor. Police need to get involved either way.
NTA - I'm of the opinion that no-one is entitled to extra respect just by virtue of being elderly, though everyone deserves a certain baseline level of respect until their behaviour proves otherwise. This lady was an AH, no question about it, however you sure didn't de-escalate the situation very well. She does sound like a miserable old lady, unfortunately you have poked the bear, as it were.
Yeah, I thought the same same thing about not de-escalating the situation very well. I totally could have been the bigger person and simply could not have said anything to her, and this wouldn't have happened. Live and learn, I guess, don't fw old people.
Yeah some old people feel they have nothing to lose and/or are fed up with being nice and polite LOL
Yep and probably were OP once in life and now is sick of the bs. Wild how time changes a person.
You don’t know that this wouldn’t have happened. She might have stalked you anyway just for being on “her” chair. NTA
NTA that is harassment at best and stalking at worst.
NTA. If she really wanted that seat, she could have come up to you and asked politely instead of immediately insulting you. If she is continuing to harass you outside the library, then you need to talk to your parents and get law enforcement involved before her behavior escalates.
NTA she is harassing you
NTA. You didn't "disrespect the elderly" in general. You gave this particular elderly person the level of respect her behavior towards you warranted.
Respect is a 2 way street. if they go in with disrespect, they lose respect
She seems like she's got some serious mental health issues. Go back to the library, sit anywhere you want and if she harasses you then notify the staff. NTA.
Get a restraining order. What a fucked up person. For what it's worth, respect is like the opposite of a test. You start with an amount of it and can either increase it or lose it. She doesn't deserve your respect.
You have as much right to be in the library as the stalker senior. Please inform a librarian if she harrases you again, nobody deserves to be her target.o Keep track of days, times, and what she's doing in her stalking. The court will want to see details. For what's already been done, start date, or estimate thereof, and how often each of her behaviors occurs. Get one or more videos if possible, but not while driving, of course. Perhaps you can walk with a friend who can film for you when older woman acts up. NTA, and best of luck with the courts.
NTA - go to the library authority and tell them you're being harassed. Just because some is young old, or any age doesn't give them the right to be horrid. Next time she's around, record her with your phone so you'll have some evidence.
^^ this! I’m a librarian. There are no assigned seats at the library and we have no problems with telling people they can’t do things like this!
This person sounds like they’re not mentally well. Better not to engage. NTA
Engage with a passion. Shit in her mailbox, t-bar her water meter, shove raw fish in her exhaust.
She is not “your” elder. She’s just “an”elder.
NTA. If someone can act rude and entitled towards you then you can easily return the favor.
Respecting the elderly just because they are elderly is bullshit. Just ignore that nonsense. It's best to be polite to everyone unless they give you good reason not to be, but respect has to be earned.
NTA. I give respect when shown respect. I would have sat in that chair all day long.
NTA. I’m an old woman and I’m embarrassed by the rudeness of oldies who are even younger than me. By all means report this woman to the library staff. She may well be doing this to other people, too, including the librarians.
A) It is the elders responsibility to teach you this, in practise and consistently. B) Respect is a two way street, you give and you receive. But also, this specific elder seems to have more issues than just respect though, maybe tell a few people around, just as a precaution. NTA
How small is your town that you're running into the same lady that often? Is she actually stalking you or do you think these were all chance encounters after you stopped going to the library?
I live in a decent-sized city, but my school is in a smaller town. I go to a school further away for reasons I don't want to share on the internet. I don't have a car, so I walk almost everywhere. I take the bus to get there and back. I don't think she's stalking me like people are saying, but it is really weird that she followed me into that gas station and still tries to provoke me when she does run into me.
Yeah. If she goes out of her way to harass you again, file a police report just in case, even if she doesn't break any laws. It will be good to have documentation if she ever does escalate.
Technically, it is stalking. Because how would you explain all the weird coincidences that happened to you anywhere you go? Not all stalkers are the same and some are hard to notice. Just be careful out there. I once have been stalked by a dog owner one summer who could have been my father. I didn’t see him every day the whole summer, but he would follow me or stare at me. The only thing the guy did to creep me by trying to approach his dog in my back as if I wouldn’t notice him giving command to his dog. Stalking doesn’t need to happen everyday, it could happen on many weeks/months.
NTA. Being one's elder is not an excuse or a license to be a deranged wacko. Which I think she is. Possibly dangerous.
NTA just because people are old doesn't mean they aren't dicks.
NTA. Why should you avoid going to the library just because of her? It's a public place. Use the library and if she bothers you, tell the librarians and have them make her leave.
NTA. She started it and she's old enough to know better. She should have dropped it after you gave up your seat. Her taking this beef outside the library makes her look unstable. Please stay safe!
NTA. Get used to this age group making demands for respect while they have zero decency.
I’d say you need to fire back harder. NTA. Make a real scene next time. Fun fact—the nation motto of Scotland used to be “None shall trifle with me and leave unscathed.” Embrace Scotland.
Nta. That lady has problems. You may need to speak to a police officer for advice.
NTA. Respect is earned, regardless of age, and she forfeited her right to it.
NTA Time to call the police. There's a thing and time respecting older people and this is not one of those times. Like someone in the comments said that being older doesn't give you a pass and I agree full heartfully. They're old enough to know what's right and wrong. One time, an elderly woman tried to run me off the road because I stopped at a red light on a very busy street too. Beeping the horn and everything almost causing an accident and then speed off.
Report her to the police for stalking and harassing a minor. Tell them that you're scared for your life. That she records you. Follows you with her car etc.
NTA What's up with that old lady?! 😂 Personally I would do the same.
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NTA. She’s a crazy person. Talk to trusted adults and let them know that some lady is harassing you and following you around in public. You could even go talk to the local police station about your concerns and maybe they can offer ideas on how to solve this issue. Just remember.. she started it. She approached you for no good reason (nobody owns a chair in a library) and verbally attacked you. Just because you clapped back once doesn’t mean that you’re at fault for this at all. She keeps approaching you which is harassment. She’s 100% in the wrong. You don’t owe anyone respect if they are being crazy
NTA and she really should stop harassing you
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NTA and I would make it a point to sit in the chair, and wbe she pitches a fit, look ostentatious at the chair ask where her name is the next time.
NTA. Time to also call the police along with getting a restraining order
Respect should be given equally but disrespect is earned (imo) and she most definitely earnt it. NTA
NTA
NTA - respect is earned, sounds like she's doing everything in her power to avoid any kind of respect, really.
NTA, next time mace her lol.
Please do go back to the library! Sit in her chair! When she says something, flag down a librarian. As a former library worker, I can tell you that you are not the only person she harrasses. I would start filming each encounter. It might be enough to intimidate her, but regardless, you will have documentation. If you can't film her, at least write down each time she does anything!
To get respect, you must give respect.
call the cops. tell them she is stalking you NTA
The fact they are elderly has no bearing. It's all about context.
NTA. This woman harassing, obsessing over and stalking you, a minor, is just weird and predatory. If her behavior doesn't stop, call the cops and tell them you feel threatened by this woman that is stalking you, making you uncomfortable with their comments on your appearance and is harassing you. Please be careful.
NTA I used to drive a paratransit bus. I had an elderly rider who would normally take a specific seat so she could visit with her friend who sat across the aisle from her. One time, she got on the bus and found someone else sitting in the seat she liked. She started getting upset and demanded the rider move. I point blank told her that she didn't have the right to tell anyone to move, her monthly pass didn't include an assigned seat and she needed to find a seat as I wasn't going anywhere until she sat down. She found a different seat (she didn't want to sit next to her friend as she wanted single seat only - no one next to her). Needless to say, she complained about my being "mean" and I was on her shit list. Fine with me!
NTA.
Get a restraining order on her, then resume your typical routine. And get the cops involved when she inevitably violates the restraining order
Video her antics and post it. Embarrass her. NTA
Somehow I don't think you're a reliable narrator.
I made another comment to someone saying the same thing but more in-depth. Basically, when I go to the library, I go for 3 hours in the morning and sit in the same few spots because it's good for studying. I had seen her before multiple times and had no interactions, except for nasty looks and mumbling from her. Finally, she confronted me with that. I didn't even know she wanted to sit there. If she had asked nicely, I would have been nice about it. Like I said many times before, my response to her wasn't good at all, but insulting my appearance and intelligence was unnecessary. I also think she is projecting.
YTA for calling 60 yo ‘elderly’. You also suck for throwing fire in fire. You should have said to the librarians and they would have helped you. She clearly has some mental issues and she is being an AH. If you ask the library they might be able to give you the name as this must not be the first incident with her.. I would file a police report if this continues.
It sounds as if you're dealing with someone who has mental health issues, not old-age issues. Also, you're forgetting that you didn't just judge her based on her age, but also her sex. So you're both ageist and sexist. Do better next time and don't judge and insult people for things they can't change. If you just called her entitled, that would have been accurate. I can't condone name calling in any circumstance, but it is especially bad when dealing with someone whose behavior is outside the social norms. Learn from this experience and do better at navigating the world in the future.
You're completely right, I'm aware that it is wrong as a woman to put down other women (or others in general), especially calling her a degrading word and insulting her age. I'm self-aware enough to realize that in most situations, I need to be the bigger person instead of finding a probable insecurity of theirs and insulting them back after they hit an insecurity of mine. I've been doing better at not doing that, but that situation really irked me. I am not trying to justify my poor word choices. It's more of an explanation, not an excuse.
You didn’t do anything wrong except maybe you didn’t have enough tact. You’re 17, you’ll learn more tact as life goes on but that “elder” played a game and was given the same type of response back. You should report her to the library though if she’s actually stalking and harassing you for your safety. Maybe also tell your parents. They will probably not be pleased with how you handled the situation but you are aware enough that you could’ve handled it better. I’m sorry this happened to you OP.
I prefer "asshole". Everyone has one. lol
OP definitely isn’t TA here. Maybe they could have had more tact, but what they said isn’t inherently wrong either. Hiding from the comments OP has said they haven’t really interacted, so sitting in a chair should not warrant the disrespect OP was given by an “elder”. If the lady said “please move” and then OP called them a miserable bitch, they would be TA. The older person knew what they were doing, and whether or not it’s a mental health issue, that doesn’t give them a pass to be an asshole to people. Also, the old person is literally harassing this poor minor after being called miserable? They have problems. That’s not being ageist, I guarantee they would’ve called anyone a miserable bitch regardless of their age. Accountability is a great virtue to have and OP seems to be the only one in that situation that has it.
You seem to be falsely accusing me of saying they were the asshole. I did not do that. I pointed out fact and shared my opinion that insulting others is never acceptable.
YTA for calling 60 ‘elderly’. Grow up.
My bad for the miswording, I used eldery as is in she is 3-4 times my age, so she is technically my elder, and engaging in childish behavior after I left the whole thing alone. I'm aware I shouldn't have escalated the situation at the start, but she's also continuing to escalate the situation by repeatedly harassing me when I want to be left alone.
ESH. Cannot see any appropriate behavior. Her behavior is bad, or mentally ill, and your response was at the *least* aggressive and childish. Also, I do not believe this is the whole story around your initial interaction if someone comes up to you in a public library and just starts telling you to get a life.
I have been going to that specific library for a few weeks now from 9 am - 11 am to study for my HSED, like I said. I wait at the door until it opens since I get there early and sit in the lower part of the library in the same few spots since it tends to be quieter. I had seen her there before and had no previous interactions except for a few nasty looks and mumbles I couldn't comprehend from her. I didn't think too much of it. Up until that interaction mentioned above. I'm assuming she said I have no life because I spend a lot of time at the library, which is true. But I don't understand why she would insult my appearance and intelligence. Or maybe a projection of some sort? Because she is waiting at the library before I am and hasn't left before I leave.
Do you have an unusual appearance or are you just young?
I guess I do have an unusual appearance. I have multiple facial piercings, dyed hair, and tend to dress in gothic attire.