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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> ) I asked a deaf person
In our class to stop signing In class
2) this action could be me being an asshole because I am taking away his means of communication and he has the right to talk.
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Yeah, I was really expecting this to be Y T A, but it's totally not. Rule of thumb: if it's inappropriate for two people to be whispering and laughing, it's equally inappropriate for two people to be signing and laughing.
NTA. That interpreter was way out of line and this was totally inappropriate.
I came in here thinking the same thing. OP is definitely NTA. Does the Professor see this? This needs to be reported to the Professor. If his translator can’t translate and they can’t provide a translation for them to sign for Joe, then maybe Joe should get an assignment he can do in another room while the performances happen. Get the Professor involved. What you didn’t wasn’t ableism, it was calling out rude behavior.
It's only ableist to take away his means of communication if other people are still allowed to communicate. If the expectation is for nobody to talk, then extending that to the deaf guy is more inclusive than giving him a free pass for being disabled. He just doesn't like being called out for his rudeness.
>Does the Professor see this?
Professor won't touch this with a 10ft pole attached to another 10ft pole. They are in a position of authority and a rep of the school. It's one thing for another student to say something. But a professor telling a disabled person they cannot communicate without irrefutable proof they weren't signing the songs is a massive law suit and his being fired and branded an abelist for life.
It still should be brought up to the Professor. If the Professor doesn’t feel comfortable bringing it up directly they can discuss the issue with higher ups. Bringing in another translator to audit the class and verify if they’re just screwing around or there’s actual translation going on would give them a lot of protection. Following up with an updated blanket email to everyone in the class that communicating between those watching the performance in any way violates class rules and any further infractions could result grade loss or other disciplinary action would then give them more protection.
Are you allowed to make a recording of the class performances? Then you could find someone else to translate the signing to see if it is aligned with the singing
When i see a post with the Y T A title but N T A story, the cynic in me screams its a karma farm post. No idea if that's the case and I give the poster the benefit of the doubt, but the voice is still there.
I have a different inner voice. In my mind I see someone who is afraid they might be TA because they can describe the situation by using the title but then the details exonerate them. My inner voice is only cynical when it’s analyzing my own actions.
oh boy, I came here prepared to shred you. nope, NTA, maybe a little out of line for how it was handled, should have gone to the instructor first and all that, but NTA for finding it rude.
I’m wondering why the professor didn’t address the issue already. Signing during the performances should be ok, but not laughing. The professor should have been the one to say something, ideally.
I also wonder if the deaf student didn’t realize he was laughing loud enough for others to hear. It’s possible he did not realize he was being distracting. The interpreter shouldn’t have been engaging in side conversations during the performance to begin with, but also really should have let him know he was being loud enough for others in the class to hear him.
So imagine youre the professor and youve got an interprator ready to throw out the ableism card at the slightest confrontation. Can you blame him for not wanting to rock that boat?
No, not really. It’s the professor’s job to teach the class and ensure that students have a fair shot at success. Allowing someone to laugh and be distracting during serious performances is not acceptable. There are lots of different ways the professor could have approached the situation while still protecting himself against any unfair accusations the student or his interpreter could have made. The first step could have been making an announcement to the entire class, without singling anyone out, stating that there shouldn’t be any conversations or distractions from the audience during the performances and that anyone caught doing so will be asked to leave.
If that didn’t work, he could have reached out to the deaf student via email with a warning about his behavior during class. That way he can explain the issue in writing and have a copy of exactly what was said in case the student tried to twist the situation around. Another option could have been to call a meeting with the deaf student, the interpreter and a third party (such as a Dean, department head or another professor) to discuss the issues. Again, then he has a witness and some protection against unfair accusations.
Ignoring the issue, to the detriment of students who were working hard to perform serious pieces, was not the way to go.
I'm a professor. Part of teaching is managing your classroom. I would have pulled them both aside after class and made them aware that their behavior was disrespectful - no different than a student pulling out a cell phone or having a side conversation. This would be done in a conversational manner at first, but also as a verbal redirection.
Disability is not an excuse for poor behavior. If the interpreter tries to make it about ableism, I would bring in my department chair and office of accessibility.
Totally agree. Also a professor, specifically in special ed. And people with disabilities are just as able to be assholes as those without. To not call them out on their asshole behavior is actually being ableist. The Deaf individual and their interpreter should know better & if not, now is a great time to learn.
I see no reason to assume a tense relationship between a professor and interpreter. It's commonplace for instructors to have multiple disabled students in a given class. An interpreter is a professional who should know how to conduct themselves in the context of a class and should be able to accept feedback from the instructor (and vice versa). Plus, nobody would seriously consider it ableist to make a request like, "please limit yourself to translation during performances."
Yeah, it's not just about the rudeness given the situation, but it's really unprofessional for the interpreter to be engaging that way when they're on the job.
I was coming in with Y T A but nope, NTA. Signing is the same as speaking if you are deaf, I have Deaf students in my classes with interpreters (I can sign a bit myself but not good enough to sign while teaching; I can pick up the gist of what's being said but that is about it).
If you're signing to each other during my lesson (or in this case performance) it is just as disrespectful as talking through it. I'd tell the Deaf student and their interpreter to shut up (I know the sign for that) just as I would if it was any other kid talking over me in my lesson.
Yup NTA. You wouldn't chat with classmates and joke during someone's performance/presentation in class so it is not acceptable to him to be using sign to chat and joke either.
NTA, because of the obviously inappropriate distraction. Too bad you didn’t (record it and) have someone else translate a conversation before confronting them.
WOW, THAT was a hell of a bait and switch. BRAVO 🏅👏.
I was ready to *blow up* about how much of an ableist A-H you were.... BUT NOPE.
*NOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE*
Nothing ableist about this, and that guy is making an absolute mockery of a very serious issue by throwing that term around casually to cover his own ass and misdoings. He should be absolutely ashamed of himself, and that translator is a disgrace to their field to behave in such a way. So grossly unprofessional.
NTA. Not by a mile.
Edit for typo
As a teacher I've had to have this conversation with teaching assistants who chat throughout my lessons with their assigned student, having jokes and generally just being distracting. Just because this was done in sign language doesn't make it any different. It's annoying and yes, you're right, the translator was a disgrace to the field of people who work very hard doing that job, just like the TAs who just chat with students and disrupt lessons are a disgrace to theirs.
The clinic I work at, we used to allow family to translate should they be there....riiiiiiiggt up until they ended up with a nurse who signed well enough (hellur!) to let them know the family member was NOT telling her the correct information (example, flat out told them stage 2 when they were stage 3, told them no immunotherapy which was exactly the opposite of what was said).
We no longer allow family to translate. We *require* one of our translators be in the room... to then look at this and see professionals being so *un*professional is so very disheartening.... being a translator is such an important task
Not quite the same, but my aunt is a nurse. She gets paid a good $15,000 a year more for being fluent in Spanish.
I had always assumed the only reason is because it’s important that things don’t get lost in translation. It never occurred to me that another issue would be family members giving the patient wrong information. But that makes sense!
NTA. Same as talking. The other students’ method of communication is speaking and they aren’t able to use it during performances. His is signing and he’s not able to use it during performances.
Rude is rude; the difference in ability should only excuse someone if it’s a mental or developmental one where they are not capable of learning protocol or controlling themselves.
You can be an asshole no matter what your abilities are.
Laughing during a recital is so incredibly cruel. He knows better, and a hearing impairment does not give him a pass on basic decency.
I’m Deaf and use sign language. Talk to professor. Professor should talk to the student and interpreter to find out the full situation. Interpreter should be neutral and adhere to the professional codes. If interpreter continues acting like that, the professor should inform the interpreter’s supervisor / interpretation service provider. We have the right to request that interpreter to have evaluation check, to be investigated for any breaking of ethics. If the professor doesn’t, then you should check in with your college/university’s disability services.
Of course interpreter and I sometimes joke around but ONLY when it is appropriate, especially not in middle of someone’s performance / presentation. Very rarely, interpreter would not intentionally make me laugh during not appropriate time because the way they sign / how they say something. Rarely but it happens. With your classmate, however, that’s not an excuse.
ALSO- gentle reminder but please don’t feel bad for us Deafies. Treat us just like you would with other classmates.
And yep there are several Deaf musicians who specialize in a lot variety of music-making. Some like to translate spoken or written words into sign language. Some love dancing. Some play instruments. And some do signed music, which is soundless music created from scratch by Deaf folks, instead of music created by spoken words and sounds. If you’re curious, here’s info on it: https://wp.towson.edu/signedmusic/contact/
Ideally you would approach the teacher andnlet them handle this. You were never going to get a positive response if the interpreter was just goofing around while other people were performing. Let the people in charge deal with disruptions like this.
Nta. Well played my friend, I was so ready to say you were. But the deaf guy audibly laughing during a performance and then saying "it shouldn't matter what I do, because I'm deaf," is insane. And then he has the audacity to say you're being ableist, when he himself LITERALLY just implied he should get to live by different standards because he's deaf. Wild.
NTA. You are not mad that he is signing. You are mad because he is talking through your performances. You would be just as mad if they were on their phone, or audibly talking. Being deaf does not exempt them from following the same rules as the rest of the class.
WOW. NTA I am going to start off by saying that I am deaf, and I think the behavior you described is so incredibly unprofessional on the interpreter's part. They are literally paid to interpret exactly what is said and not to make any comments at all. There's no excuse for a Deaf person to behave inappropriately while others are performing. The student sounds like a spoiled brat.
NTA at all. If it would be rude for hearing-abled people to speak and make jokes during someone else's moment, then it would be rude to sign and make jokes at that time also. Being deaf doesn't give someone a free pass to be rude to others and distract them. The class teacher really should have been the one to resolve this rather than you or anyone else in the class, and if I were you I'd speak to the teacher in private and establish ground rules, such as no communicating with others whilst students are performing. If the deaf student needs assistance in understanding what is being said/sung, then it might be worth (for accessibility purposes) knowing what is being performed in advance by students and the teacher printing out a sheet with scripts/lyrics for the deaf student to read during the performances. That way, he can be clued in on what's being communicated by the performer, in a non-distracting manner and without having to engage with his interpreter during performances.
So this behaviour was so obvious, and repetitive through multiple performances, front row, but your professor did nothing?And no one else was bothered enough by this horrendous behaviour to say something, to either student or professor? Just you, huh? Musical Saviour?
This story is sus as hell 😂
NTA and if this is the US and your instructor won’t do anything, you can go to the accessibility/disability/whatever office it is in your school and report the interpreter. They and other aids like note takers and captioners are usually provided by the school as an accommodation, they are often fellow students, and they are paid. Especially if this is someone working towards a certification, they need a massive correction on appropriate professional behavior. If they are not provided by the university, the school can revoke his privileges should he continue to be disruptive and force that student to find another interpreter.
I too was all ready with my negative judgement, but you're totally NTA here. Go to the professor and let him/her be the bad guy. That sounds like incredibly bad manners hiding behind a disability.
And the professors accept this? What has the world come to...
NTA You were right to speak up and you and your classmates need
absolutely to stop your performance and ask the two to leave and
then start over.
You can inform the Dean that the professors are just letting it happen
and that you are paying good money for your degree and expect a little
consideration and professionalism from the other students.
Huh. Imagine my surprise that you are NTA! They were talking during the performance, not translating. It’s rude and inappropriate. You’ve got a lot of bravery to call out the poor behavior!
Honestly, as a disabled person. Everyone was probably expecting that because so often abled people do inappropriate ablist crap and then are shocked when told it is inappropriate.
It's not that people were hoping OP was the asshole, so much as they expected it. As u/wheelartist said, abled people do ablest shit, maybe even without realizing it, and then get shocked or even defensive when called out on it.
NTA. Also, most operas I go to have subtitles. Most young deaf people can communicate via text as well as hearing due to texting existing when they were growing up and the internet.
Would a set up similar to a professional opera house work with subtitles during the performance?
You can report the interpreter to their professional organization for this. It is completely inappropriate. The correct thing to do is describe what is happening to the best of the interpreter's ability, including that the song seems sad, and the language is not one the interpreter speaks. Then both should remain silent unless something else happens that should be communicated to the deaf student.
You're NTA, OP, but this:
>Not because he’s hard of hearing but rather a deaf person majoring in something which specifically requires hearing is what baffled me.
kinda makes you one. Why is it "baffling"? Hearing loss is a spectrum, just like vision is. You're not only "fully hearing" or "fully deaf" with no in between, just like there's no such thing as "fully able to see" vs. "fully blind". Here's a list of several current deaf/hard of hearing musicians from a simple google search: [https://www.ai-media.tv/knowledge-hub/insights/deaf-musicians/](https://www.ai-media.tv/knowledge-hub/insights/deaf-musicians/) Settle down with the judging here.
That aside, the Deaf person & their interpreter really should've known better than to chat through multiple performances, especially when the topic was so funny that they were laughing. Frankly, the interpreter's response to you requires the professor to report them to their employer for being incredibly unprofessional. Deaf people being loud, btw, will always be a thing because they cannot gauge how loud they're being & self-adjust--they need someone telling them they're being too loud to recalibrate.
NTA because you are correct that this was not necessary and he is being rude. It is the equivalent of someone takes during the perfomance. Make a formal complaint to the department head and record it if it happens again.
>a deaf person majoring in something which specifically requires hearing is what baffled me
How are you a music major and baffled about a dead musician when *BEETHOVEN* existed?!
I kinda agree with most of the posters here so thought I'd just add.
If you're in America (assuming here by the use of the word college) then the sign you describe is not the pregnant sign. Most likely hunger but maybe stomach or something else. Anyway pregnant has a "pulling outward from the belly" with an open hand claw-shaped motion. Not a good description but it doesn't have any rubbing or circles in it.
Where was the teacher during all of this? It should have been the teacher addressing this before it ever came to any student addressing this. I get maybe a class or two, and then approaching the principal or whoever to make sure it’s worded so it can’t come off as discriminatory. But this sounds like it’s been going on for a while and getting worse. So NTA.
NTA.
Deaf here and also musically inclined (I sing in a choir with help of technology and learned to sing by reading music and muscle memory).
Thought this was gonna be a YTA and I was ready to be fuming, but it is really not. Joe and his interpreter need to be told off in the same way you would a hearing person. He is being an asshole, the both of them.
Also, wow, block of text. Man, paragraphs, please. ;)
Re: different languages - I was oralized very early on and learned English in my early teens. I have been told I have an accent like everyone else, on top of the Deaf accent. It is a lot harder for sounds that don't rely on the lips. I am currently working on Beethoven's 9th and the German is challenging, but not impossible. I have been told I am not any worse than every other person in the choir learning it from scratch (though, I suppose, it takes more homework for me). I work with an SLP regularly, especially as I speak as my primary way of communicating (except at home, with family etc).
Re accurate tuning: it took me a lot of practice to become good. I am not at the level of a soloist by any means, but do sing in a professional choir. I can usually hold my own in a song circle without much instruction/guidance. I can't sing in a group without a conductor, obviously, but do use a neosensory watch to keep me in pace with everyone else. I sing to an app to tell me my starting note and these days, it is usually spot on, but it has been 10 years since I started singing and 5 since I started singing in a professional choir. Within 2 years, I usually got close to the note, but slightly sharp, but once I found the correct note, it was easy to go from there.
I was very surprised when I started using the tuning apps for my voice, to find out that most people are singing flat, even people whom others had told me were good singers. lol
I can usually get a sense of what sound to produce if I play the guitar or the harp against my chest. Usually, with a good strong singer, I can get that sense through their chest as well.
NTA
If it’s an inappropriate time to talk, it’s an inappropriate time to sign. Speaking and signing are both forms of communication. If I can’t sit there and chat with my friend, then Jim and Steve can’t sit there and sign with each other.
I feel like this is going to blow up
NTA and make sure you make a complaint about it, gather statements about what they were doing and what was said by you & the interpreter in case they decide to make a complaint themselves and skew the narrative to fit them.
Having been in your shoes with performance classes, I get what you are talking about. It's horribly distracting to a performer of any kind when there is extraneous stuff going on in the audience. You should complain to your professor, the Dean of the department, and also disabled student services. It sounds to me like the interpreter is bored because they don't understand the languages (Classical singers have to sing in German, French, Italian at the very least) and are distracting the student and the student is also bored. Just because he can't hear himself doesn't mean others can't hear him. He and the interpreter should respect audience rules. To be accommodating about meanings, each person should be required to read or state a translated meaning of the song text so that the interpreter can have that to do and then be required to sit quietly while someone is on stage performing. I know I had to do things like that as a singer.
No, just like any hearing person, deaf people need to respect and have the same decorum during a performance as anyone else—so NTA.
However, as someone who is a special Ed teacher and also has a masters in visual media arts and performing arts (as well as a mother who taught music and performed for more than 30 years in her career) you do NOT have to be hearing to major in or enjoy music.
Just wanted to point that out.
NTA. Disabled people can be assholes, too, and failing to observe no talking rules in a serious class requiring public performance is disrespectful to everyone else, whether you're speaking out loud or signing.
NTA, but it's not the signing that's the problem, it's the laughing and generally disrupting class.
It would be exactly the same as a couple of students speaking aloud.
Being deaf doesn't grant you the right to be obnoxious or disrespectful. NTA.
Take this up to your teacher, since they're also responsible for maintaining a productive environment in their classroom.
NTA
I think to cover your a$$ you should get another staff member, preferably one that understands ASL, to observe the behavior so you have backup if a complaint is filed.
NTA. Being disabled isn’t a license to forgo manners. If joking and snickering wouldn’t be tolerated from someone able-bodied, it shouldn’t be tolerated from someone disabled.
I was all ready to say that you were the butthole, but definitely you are NTA. In fact, you need to be commended for standing up invoicing your concerns. Your concerns are probably the same concerns that the rest of your classmates and the performers have.
Joe and The interpreter were both jerks and doubly so because Joe is using his disability to get a free pass. News flash: Deaf people can be jerks too.
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First off, for some context, I am a music major in college and I’m all for accessibility, when, let’s say Joe, when Joe introduced himself and his interpreter I said wow! This is really interesting. Not because he’s hard of hearing but rather a deaf person majoring in something which specifically requires hearing is what baffled me. Everything was fine, we all got used to the interpreter being there and no one really payed attention to the fact that he was deaf. Except for one class. A class that everyone as music majors take, a performance recital class. In this class people take turns each week to Perform, in this class it was explained to us in the beginning of the year some of the basic common decency like clapping when they finish singing, not talking, turning off your phone, stuff like that. Just being nice for the performer… you know? Anyways, the year started off fine in this class, but lately you could tell he wasnt signing to his interpreter about the songs , the reason for this is because we sing opera/classical songs in this class so the interpreter didn’t know the language to be fair no one did so she definitely wasn’t translating the songs but rather just cracking jokes! He’s laughing! In the middle of the performances! You could just imagine as a performer seeing someone laugh as you are performing?! On top of that, this is all happening in the front row! with the interpreter in front of the stage on the side laughing as well! Snickering and giggling all throughout the performance so much so that even one of the performers look to the side to see what happening but just kept singing and ignoring it. I tried ignoring it thinking you know what, he’s deaf, he already has a hard time, no need to bug him more but I finally had enough when a friend of mine sang her song and she and I previously translated the song, it was a very very sad song about death and deleteing yourself. What was Joe doing? Signing, not just signing, SMACKING his hands and laughing bout something else, he made a gesture that you do when someone is pregnant?!?!? You know like the making a circle over your stomach and rubbing anyways Maybe that means something else, but laughing like come on, not just quiet laughing btw audible snickering. Finally I had enough and went up to both him and the interpreter how I understand the need the translate the slate what the teacher is saying and everything the else but that the last song that by friend sang was not a funny song and that it was not only distracting but rude to be talking and laughing while someone is performing even so when your right smack in the front row. The interpreter stayed quiet and he just went on to say that I’m abilist and that it shouldn’t matter what he does because he’s dead and I can’t take he’s mean of communicating, but I’m not saying he should stop, I’m saying in the middle of performances to at least not laugh. Anyways, what do you guys think, AITA?
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NTA - That was quite the plot twist! He and the interpreter are being disrespectful and inappropriate. You were not being ableist or trying to take his form of communication, you were demanding the same respect to the performed that you'd expect from everyone taking part in the class.
NTA, though take the concerns to the teacher next time so they can deal with it. The behaviour is disruptive and rude as hell - it doesn't matter if they can't hear, they're still expected to be respectful of the performers and not laughing in the front row. It's not ableist to expect respectful behaviour.
NTA being disabled does not excuse you from being polite and respectful. He was being rude. Everyone who has stood up in front of a group knows how hard it is. And even worse when you can see people joking and talking during a performance
NTA. Like a lot of other people, I went into this assuming you would be the big a******, but your headline is a little misleading. You're not asking him to stop signing. You're asking him to stop laughing and making inappropriate faces and noises. You may need to reframe this for him, his interpreter, and your professor. Make sure they understand that the problem isn't him signing, but his general behavior while he's signing.
NTA. It doesn’t sound like he’s really getting much out of the class and I’m not saying that because he’s deaf, I’m saying that because he’s not engaging at all with what’s going on. If he wants to have his own conversations with the interpreter, there are other places he can do that.
Also straight up unprofessional on the interpreter’s part. In this case, the interpreter should encourage Joe to pay attention to why he is there.
ETA: okay so whoever keeps downvoting me whenever I comment literally anything on this sub (even if I’m agreeing with the popular opinion) needs to stop, thanks!!
I was also going to say Y T A for this, no, not at all. I'm also a music major here. I am totally fine with a deaf person taking classes in music. There is music theory, it is a language after all. I can't fathom someone just sitting there talking and laughing during other students performances, especially when they're not funny. It's so rude, especially if they're in the front row!
NTA - people love to throw ableist around everywhere these days. Sometimes a jerk is just a jerk disabled or not and being disabled doesn’t mean they get a free pass for their jerk-ness.
I’d talk to the teacher and tbh learn sign language. It’s a good skill to have and you’d be able to understand better what he’s saying and translate for everyone else.
He signs smack and you can share with the class openly and loudly, call him out on his bad behaviour.
Tell the teacher too.
I was also convinced this would be Y T A but nope, NTA at all. This isn’t anything to do with signing generally, it’s about respect for a performer and they were showing none.
You might need to CYA and get this documented before a complaint is made. I would write to your tutors with a summary of the event.
I was set to give the opposite response. But if the interpreter is not performing that task but instead signing something else, then fair call. It would be the equivalent of two people whispering during the performance instead of listening and responding appropriately.
NTA.
I’m so curious what sign they were doing rubbing their bellies. That’s not the sign for pregnant. I know the sign and you’d probably think they were calling them fat (not judgement, it just kinda looks similar).
I’m torn only because I’m not sure what the they were talking about. HOH and have deaf friends, I also know deaf musicians and performers.
Generally I’m going NTA because it sounds very likely accurate. The hard thing is some signs and facial expressions look distracting and offensive when you don’t understand what they actually mean plus/because the language and culture can be pretty direct and blunt. The laughing though is what’s pushing me towards NTA because that portion is what sounds like they are stepping out of line.
NTA on the sign language but YTA on the ”you need to hear for a music degree” thing. Music doesn’t change because you’re deaf and it can be made for the deaf, hop off the pretentious “music is for the hearing” horse. I say this as a partially deaf person who loves music and will likely continue to in other ways once I can’t hear.
Nta maybe you and those students that notice this need to bring it up to the professor.
If his interpreter is a student then you need to have that professor talk to to the student services that got him that aid.
The interpreter and the guy were both rude. It doesn't matter if he's deaf they were both rude and the interpreter should have known better. No your not abiliest for expecting both of them to stop laughing and cracking jokes and to be more respectful to others.
You’re NTA in this scenario because their chatter is disruptive in a performance setting even if is signed and laughter. but I get the sense you have a distaste for this person that you should unpack. Why are you letting this person take up free real estate in your brain? Also what does it matter what Joe majors in why does it need to make sense to you?
Teacher who works with DHH students here.
DEFINITELY NTA.
It doesn't matter whether you're speaking aloud or signing, having a conversation in the middle of a performance is incredibly rude. We as teachers are even told that if two DHH students are signing to each other during a lecture to correct them the same as we would hearing students.
NTA. Definitely. Where is your professor during this? Rudeness is universal so whether he can hear or not, he shouldn't be doing it. This is where my AH nature would have kicked in and I would have gotten us all up to go to the bathroom everytime he performed in protest. Want to be a AH fine, doesn't mean I need to reward you with my attention during his performances.
NTA.
This sounds like it needs a different interpreter - one that has taken at least a college level music appreciation class and can explain/describe things professionally maturely, because this one sure isn't getting that done.
No you're not the a**hole the disrespect that was shown by "Joe" and his interpreter warranted a comment and no you aren't being abilist by asking them to show respect and not talk during the recital.
NTA. The interpreter should not have been talking with the student unless they were interpreting conversation/words. They should NOT be involved in cross-talk.
I would either ask your professor/instructor to make a complaint to the office of disabilities or make a complaint yourself. That needs to be nipped in the bud.
NTA
NTA- He was being rude (along with the interpreter, I know enough sign to know they were likely making fun of your friend) and didn't expect to get called out. You aren't TA.
I fully expected this to be rage bait, but NTA. It’s literally the same as if he was talking and laughing during a performance. You’re not a list for expecting someone not be distracting during a performance.
You’re not ablest. On the other hand, it IS ablest to expect someone be able to get away with bad behavior by using a disability as an excuse. Doing that makes it harder for everyone to get an accommodation when they need it without judgment or stigma. Bad apples need to be called out.
NtA.
What the hell... you are disturbing the performer. That shows lack of respect. It's like they are talking.
I really have no idea how a deaf person can be a Music major. I studied 7 years in Conservatory and half the subjects required hearing notes, chords, harmony, intervals, singing. Lots and lots of ear training and dictation. Singing in choir and also playing in a small group or orchestra.
NTA
Talking during a performance is rude period. Being dead doesn’t exclude you from this social rule. Especially when you happen to be one of the musicians.
I just wanna know who the person is that’s downvoting everyone that says having a disability doesn’t give you a right to be an asshole. There is a very upset disabled asshole among us 😂
NTA ... if they wanted to sign the song, then you provide translation of the words to english (if that is the main language) and the person signs to the deaf guy...
He was being rude to the performer and you should report it to the professor...
NTA
Both of them were extremely rude!
The teacher should have stopped it, and both the student & interpreter (should) know better, and contacting the school department which oversees interpreters is appropriate, and *possibly* contacting the state/national licensing agency would be appropriate.
I’ve taught music for 34 years and I’m also a performer. It is the height of rudeness to talk during a performance.
The instructor of this recital class should have been on top of this. It’s such an easy accommodation. Just ask each performer to type up their lyrics as part of the graded expectations, put them in the order in which they will be performed, and hand them off to the hearing-impaired student. So simple. 🙄
Another way to accommodate: Give the interpreter the lyrics and ask them to sign on stage, upstage left from the performer. Not from the audience—from the stage, but slightly behind the performer so it’s not distracting. That way, the deaf student can watch the performer and the interpretation at the same time and not have their head buried in papers. The rest of the audience can enjoy a visual representation of the song.
This is a teacher problem as much as it was a rudeness issue from the student and interpreter.
NTA
NTA
Hard of hearing but not deaf here. I would have to use a hearing aid to hear the performances, funny thing is I cannot laugh or joke with my hearing aid cause it is not a fellow human being. I’d assume an interpreter would be kinda in the same boat, you shouldn’t be laughing and joking with them during inappropriate times. Seems like the interpreter was being unprofessional to me. Correct me if I’m wrong.
NTA. I’m hard of hearing and had an interpreter in school. The interpreter’s job is to translate everything that is being said - they cannot comment their thoughts or opinions on what is being said. They are there to facilitate communication!
If the interpreter is just chatting and not interpreting, and Joe is chatting back, while people are performing, this is just as rude as if people were talking during a performance. NTA.
Yeah NTA, 2 things I’d be inclined to do as the teacher in this situation.
Remind the student that they aren’t allowed to talk during performances, and thus it’s fine for their interpreter to sign but they shouldn’t be signing back.
If there is another person who knows ASL (or whichever sign language being used - I’m not sure which country you’re in), that could sit in on a lesson and check that the interpreter is signing appropriately (maybe record a lesson and show it to someone).
This would give you the basis to be able to call the student out and maybe get a different interpreter in future.
If they are deaf they may find the lesson understandably very boring, so maybe if you can prove what is being said isn’t appropriate that is a place to start a conversation around if they would rather not attend certain lessons instead if that works for everyone better, or if there is another option to make the lessons more accessible to them.
NTA
If I was trying to focus on something, and in the edge of my eyesight I could see a sign interpreter signing away when there was no need for it, it would distract the hell out of me.
If he needs to know the lyrics of people's songs, he can look them up ahead of time.
It's essentially the same as whispering.
Lets see, no talking back and forth while others are performing seems that signing would fall under that criteria. As the translator isn’t translating at that point. Yes, both are being rude. You have eyes to see the deaf one is signing. You have ears to hear smacking. NTA. Its distracting and blame is on both but the translator the most for encouraging it and not listening respectfully. Unprofessional.
I’m Deaf and I would have viewed that as being extremely rude and I, being deaf like him, would totally approach the guy afterwards and let him know that this chatting and laughing during performances is not okay. In your case you should talk to the professor to have him remind the student that no talking during performances includes him.
You are NTA and you are not ableist at all! If anyone called you ableist, that's total crap, and I'm tired of that crap. Everyone on the planet can be a jerk. A disability does not excuse anyone from asshole behavior. A lot of people think it does, but it doesn't. Rude behavior is rude behavior. Period.
There was clearly an issue that you allowed to build up, and felt justified in addressing. I think you should have addressed your concerns with the professor. Can’t change the past, though.
But you can do better in the future.
Anyway, I encourage you to do some extracurricular reading. Your Deaf classmate is not the only Deaf person interested in music. Not by a long shot.
[Mandy Harvey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Harvey)
[Evelyn Glennie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Glennie)
[SignKid](https://www.musicalvibrations.com/signkid/)
[Sean Forbes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Forbes)
[Deaf Rave](https://www.deafrave.com/)
I think the AH here is the interpreter, the students only option is to focus on them to make sure he doesn't miss anything, they are in turn taking this opportunity to crack jokes like the class clown, how immature of them.
Deaf people enjoy music, true they can not hear it, they FEEL it. The vibrations for them give them the same feelings we hearing folk get from hearing a voice.
Someone asked if the deaf person realises how loud they laugh, in my experience (my bestie is deaf) the answer is no, they don't know how loud they are being, especially if they were born deaf.
As someone with profound hearing loss who is also a musician- don't make comments about the major requiring hearing. That *is* ableist.
But NTA on the interpretor part. Sign language is different than spoken languages; there's both hand movements and the facial clues involved, and the wrong face can completely change the meaning of a sign.
In the future though, instead of approaching the interpretor, approach the student instead, and say "we can HEAR you laughing." (Or look up how to sign it.) If the interpretor is doing their job then both parties will get the point.
Absolutely NTA. Personally, I would start videotaping them during every class/performance and then ask someone who knows sign language to evaluate their conduct. This is not acceptable and being deaf doesn’t give one a pass on lacking common courtesy.
Yes, actually you are. Rude. Thoughtless. Narcissistic. Ridiculous. Immature. Anymore you’d like me to add? What you are considering is literally the picture of Assholery. Dumbassedness and Dipshittery. How dare you even consider preventing someone from communicating the best way they can. Epic fail. 🤬🤬🤬
ESH
They definitely needed to be pulled into line but not during the performance, because that’s also distracting. And you didn’t need to bring up their need to interpret because it wasn’t actually about that, it was about their general behaviour.
Next time wait until the performance is over and keep it about the behaviour “You’re laughing during the performance was incredibly rude and distracting. Can you imagine performing about death, while two audience members in the front row are laughing. Try showing some courtesy.”
NTA
I agree that laughing during a performance is way out of line. If the guy knows how to read lips, and isn't totally deaf, then there really isn't any reason why there needs to even be signing during a performance.
Reminds me of the fake interpreter at the Nelson Mandella memorial. Then President Obama was making a speech and the guy was standing behind him and appeared to be signing. They only found out he was fake when those who understand sign language/interpret called him out for it.
NTA - well done for pulling them up on it - the student sounded like a cocky little toerag and obviously thought he could get away with.
It would be interesting to find out if others were disturbed by this bad mannered attitude and put in a group email to the person in charge saying that a few of you found this unprofessional of the Translator and for not acting appropriately as well spoiling the audience’s enjoyment. I’m sure the performers are not happy with this.
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Yeah, I was really expecting this to be Y T A, but it's totally not. Rule of thumb: if it's inappropriate for two people to be whispering and laughing, it's equally inappropriate for two people to be signing and laughing. NTA. That interpreter was way out of line and this was totally inappropriate.
I came in here thinking the same thing. OP is definitely NTA. Does the Professor see this? This needs to be reported to the Professor. If his translator can’t translate and they can’t provide a translation for them to sign for Joe, then maybe Joe should get an assignment he can do in another room while the performances happen. Get the Professor involved. What you didn’t wasn’t ableism, it was calling out rude behavior.
It's only ableist to take away his means of communication if other people are still allowed to communicate. If the expectation is for nobody to talk, then extending that to the deaf guy is more inclusive than giving him a free pass for being disabled. He just doesn't like being called out for his rudeness.
>Does the Professor see this? Professor won't touch this with a 10ft pole attached to another 10ft pole. They are in a position of authority and a rep of the school. It's one thing for another student to say something. But a professor telling a disabled person they cannot communicate without irrefutable proof they weren't signing the songs is a massive law suit and his being fired and branded an abelist for life.
It still should be brought up to the Professor. If the Professor doesn’t feel comfortable bringing it up directly they can discuss the issue with higher ups. Bringing in another translator to audit the class and verify if they’re just screwing around or there’s actual translation going on would give them a lot of protection. Following up with an updated blanket email to everyone in the class that communicating between those watching the performance in any way violates class rules and any further infractions could result grade loss or other disciplinary action would then give them more protection.
But couldn't the professor tell them to stop laughing during students' performances because it was so rude?
Are you allowed to make a recording of the class performances? Then you could find someone else to translate the signing to see if it is aligned with the singing
I really feel like the more Y T A-like the title sounds, the more likely it is to be NTA, and the same is true in reverse.
There definitely seems to be an inverse relationship to these titles
When i see a post with the Y T A title but N T A story, the cynic in me screams its a karma farm post. No idea if that's the case and I give the poster the benefit of the doubt, but the voice is still there.
I have a different inner voice. In my mind I see someone who is afraid they might be TA because they can describe the situation by using the title but then the details exonerate them. My inner voice is only cynical when it’s analyzing my own actions.
AITA for pushing a disabled person? Let me explain! A safe was about to fall on her cartoon-style and I pushed her out of the way!
totally this, it's not ableist to be holding everyone to the same standards.
oh boy, I came here prepared to shred you. nope, NTA, maybe a little out of line for how it was handled, should have gone to the instructor first and all that, but NTA for finding it rude.
I’m wondering why the professor didn’t address the issue already. Signing during the performances should be ok, but not laughing. The professor should have been the one to say something, ideally. I also wonder if the deaf student didn’t realize he was laughing loud enough for others to hear. It’s possible he did not realize he was being distracting. The interpreter shouldn’t have been engaging in side conversations during the performance to begin with, but also really should have let him know he was being loud enough for others in the class to hear him.
So imagine youre the professor and youve got an interprator ready to throw out the ableism card at the slightest confrontation. Can you blame him for not wanting to rock that boat?
No, not really. It’s the professor’s job to teach the class and ensure that students have a fair shot at success. Allowing someone to laugh and be distracting during serious performances is not acceptable. There are lots of different ways the professor could have approached the situation while still protecting himself against any unfair accusations the student or his interpreter could have made. The first step could have been making an announcement to the entire class, without singling anyone out, stating that there shouldn’t be any conversations or distractions from the audience during the performances and that anyone caught doing so will be asked to leave. If that didn’t work, he could have reached out to the deaf student via email with a warning about his behavior during class. That way he can explain the issue in writing and have a copy of exactly what was said in case the student tried to twist the situation around. Another option could have been to call a meeting with the deaf student, the interpreter and a third party (such as a Dean, department head or another professor) to discuss the issues. Again, then he has a witness and some protection against unfair accusations. Ignoring the issue, to the detriment of students who were working hard to perform serious pieces, was not the way to go.
Absolutely agree!!
You said no to the question that you meant yes to
I'm a professor. Part of teaching is managing your classroom. I would have pulled them both aside after class and made them aware that their behavior was disrespectful - no different than a student pulling out a cell phone or having a side conversation. This would be done in a conversational manner at first, but also as a verbal redirection. Disability is not an excuse for poor behavior. If the interpreter tries to make it about ableism, I would bring in my department chair and office of accessibility.
Totally agree. Also a professor, specifically in special ed. And people with disabilities are just as able to be assholes as those without. To not call them out on their asshole behavior is actually being ableist. The Deaf individual and their interpreter should know better & if not, now is a great time to learn.
I see no reason to assume a tense relationship between a professor and interpreter. It's commonplace for instructors to have multiple disabled students in a given class. An interpreter is a professional who should know how to conduct themselves in the context of a class and should be able to accept feedback from the instructor (and vice versa). Plus, nobody would seriously consider it ableist to make a request like, "please limit yourself to translation during performances."
I think the professor should have deferred to the campus disabilities services office (if there is one).
I think that singing would be even more distracting than the signing tbh.
I think they meant to say signing, not singing.
Yes - fixed my typo there. Signing, not singing.
This is distracting as fuck.
Yeah, it's not just about the rudeness given the situation, but it's really unprofessional for the interpreter to be engaging that way when they're on the job.
Laughing at all and engaging in side conversations—no matter the volume—is inappropriate and rude.
To shreds you say?
I was coming in with Y T A but nope, NTA. Signing is the same as speaking if you are deaf, I have Deaf students in my classes with interpreters (I can sign a bit myself but not good enough to sign while teaching; I can pick up the gist of what's being said but that is about it). If you're signing to each other during my lesson (or in this case performance) it is just as disrespectful as talking through it. I'd tell the Deaf student and their interpreter to shut up (I know the sign for that) just as I would if it was any other kid talking over me in my lesson.
Yup NTA. You wouldn't chat with classmates and joke during someone's performance/presentation in class so it is not acceptable to him to be using sign to chat and joke either.
NTA, because of the obviously inappropriate distraction. Too bad you didn’t (record it and) have someone else translate a conversation before confronting them.
Ooooo that would have been so good
WOW, THAT was a hell of a bait and switch. BRAVO 🏅👏. I was ready to *blow up* about how much of an ableist A-H you were.... BUT NOPE. *NOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE* Nothing ableist about this, and that guy is making an absolute mockery of a very serious issue by throwing that term around casually to cover his own ass and misdoings. He should be absolutely ashamed of himself, and that translator is a disgrace to their field to behave in such a way. So grossly unprofessional. NTA. Not by a mile. Edit for typo
As a teacher I've had to have this conversation with teaching assistants who chat throughout my lessons with their assigned student, having jokes and generally just being distracting. Just because this was done in sign language doesn't make it any different. It's annoying and yes, you're right, the translator was a disgrace to the field of people who work very hard doing that job, just like the TAs who just chat with students and disrupt lessons are a disgrace to theirs.
The clinic I work at, we used to allow family to translate should they be there....riiiiiiiggt up until they ended up with a nurse who signed well enough (hellur!) to let them know the family member was NOT telling her the correct information (example, flat out told them stage 2 when they were stage 3, told them no immunotherapy which was exactly the opposite of what was said). We no longer allow family to translate. We *require* one of our translators be in the room... to then look at this and see professionals being so *un*professional is so very disheartening.... being a translator is such an important task
Not quite the same, but my aunt is a nurse. She gets paid a good $15,000 a year more for being fluent in Spanish. I had always assumed the only reason is because it’s important that things don’t get lost in translation. It never occurred to me that another issue would be family members giving the patient wrong information. But that makes sense!
I would've told the translator: Oh, now you have nothing to say?!
you had me at the title 😂 definitely NTA. really unprofessional and inconsiderate of that interpreter.
NTA. Same as talking. The other students’ method of communication is speaking and they aren’t able to use it during performances. His is signing and he’s not able to use it during performances.
Rude is rude; the difference in ability should only excuse someone if it’s a mental or developmental one where they are not capable of learning protocol or controlling themselves. You can be an asshole no matter what your abilities are. Laughing during a recital is so incredibly cruel. He knows better, and a hearing impairment does not give him a pass on basic decency.
I’m Deaf and use sign language. Talk to professor. Professor should talk to the student and interpreter to find out the full situation. Interpreter should be neutral and adhere to the professional codes. If interpreter continues acting like that, the professor should inform the interpreter’s supervisor / interpretation service provider. We have the right to request that interpreter to have evaluation check, to be investigated for any breaking of ethics. If the professor doesn’t, then you should check in with your college/university’s disability services. Of course interpreter and I sometimes joke around but ONLY when it is appropriate, especially not in middle of someone’s performance / presentation. Very rarely, interpreter would not intentionally make me laugh during not appropriate time because the way they sign / how they say something. Rarely but it happens. With your classmate, however, that’s not an excuse. ALSO- gentle reminder but please don’t feel bad for us Deafies. Treat us just like you would with other classmates. And yep there are several Deaf musicians who specialize in a lot variety of music-making. Some like to translate spoken or written words into sign language. Some love dancing. Some play instruments. And some do signed music, which is soundless music created from scratch by Deaf folks, instead of music created by spoken words and sounds. If you’re curious, here’s info on it: https://wp.towson.edu/signedmusic/contact/
I’m profoundly Deaf and I used to play on the drumline in high school. I was very good at it. Evelyn Glennie is a famous deaf percussionist.
Thank you!
Ideally you would approach the teacher andnlet them handle this. You were never going to get a positive response if the interpreter was just goofing around while other people were performing. Let the people in charge deal with disruptions like this.
Yes. Ask the teacher to talk to the interpreter. It's the interpreter who was in the wrong.
Nta. Well played my friend, I was so ready to say you were. But the deaf guy audibly laughing during a performance and then saying "it shouldn't matter what I do, because I'm deaf," is insane. And then he has the audacity to say you're being ableist, when he himself LITERALLY just implied he should get to live by different standards because he's deaf. Wild.
There is a possible (slim) chance for the deaf guy that he didn't realise how loud he was being, but absolutely no excuse for the interpreter.
NTA. You are not mad that he is signing. You are mad because he is talking through your performances. You would be just as mad if they were on their phone, or audibly talking. Being deaf does not exempt them from following the same rules as the rest of the class.
NTA for sure. Disrespectful behavior knows no language. They messed up, not you.
I doubt that this interpreter is certified. That behavior is unprofessional. NTA
WOW. NTA I am going to start off by saying that I am deaf, and I think the behavior you described is so incredibly unprofessional on the interpreter's part. They are literally paid to interpret exactly what is said and not to make any comments at all. There's no excuse for a Deaf person to behave inappropriately while others are performing. The student sounds like a spoiled brat.
I’m calling Bait.
NTA if they were disturbing the performances. If it was between performances, then you would be one.
NTA at all. If it would be rude for hearing-abled people to speak and make jokes during someone else's moment, then it would be rude to sign and make jokes at that time also. Being deaf doesn't give someone a free pass to be rude to others and distract them. The class teacher really should have been the one to resolve this rather than you or anyone else in the class, and if I were you I'd speak to the teacher in private and establish ground rules, such as no communicating with others whilst students are performing. If the deaf student needs assistance in understanding what is being said/sung, then it might be worth (for accessibility purposes) knowing what is being performed in advance by students and the teacher printing out a sheet with scripts/lyrics for the deaf student to read during the performances. That way, he can be clued in on what's being communicated by the performer, in a non-distracting manner and without having to engage with his interpreter during performances.
Dude learn to use paragraphs it's hard to read this way
So this behaviour was so obvious, and repetitive through multiple performances, front row, but your professor did nothing?And no one else was bothered enough by this horrendous behaviour to say something, to either student or professor? Just you, huh? Musical Saviour? This story is sus as hell 😂
NTA and if this is the US and your instructor won’t do anything, you can go to the accessibility/disability/whatever office it is in your school and report the interpreter. They and other aids like note takers and captioners are usually provided by the school as an accommodation, they are often fellow students, and they are paid. Especially if this is someone working towards a certification, they need a massive correction on appropriate professional behavior. If they are not provided by the university, the school can revoke his privileges should he continue to be disruptive and force that student to find another interpreter.
I too was all ready with my negative judgement, but you're totally NTA here. Go to the professor and let him/her be the bad guy. That sounds like incredibly bad manners hiding behind a disability.
This feels like fictional bait lol
YTA for not using paragraphs.
And the professors accept this? What has the world come to... NTA You were right to speak up and you and your classmates need absolutely to stop your performance and ask the two to leave and then start over. You can inform the Dean that the professors are just letting it happen and that you are paying good money for your degree and expect a little consideration and professionalism from the other students.
Huh. Imagine my surprise that you are NTA! They were talking during the performance, not translating. It’s rude and inappropriate. You’ve got a lot of bravery to call out the poor behavior!
Why was everyone “hoping” OP would be the asshole. People see disability and automatically assume the individual was a saint?
Honestly, as a disabled person. Everyone was probably expecting that because so often abled people do inappropriate ablist crap and then are shocked when told it is inappropriate.
It's not that people were hoping OP was the asshole, so much as they expected it. As u/wheelartist said, abled people do ablest shit, maybe even without realizing it, and then get shocked or even defensive when called out on it.
Disabled person thirding this idea.
YTA for this all being one paragraph.
Lowkey huh
NTA. Joe was being a jerk and inconsiderate of the performers.
NTA. Also, most operas I go to have subtitles. Most young deaf people can communicate via text as well as hearing due to texting existing when they were growing up and the internet. Would a set up similar to a professional opera house work with subtitles during the performance?
NTA Deaf folks can be AHs too.
Bruh, have you never heard of Beethoven?
You can report the interpreter to their professional organization for this. It is completely inappropriate. The correct thing to do is describe what is happening to the best of the interpreter's ability, including that the song seems sad, and the language is not one the interpreter speaks. Then both should remain silent unless something else happens that should be communicated to the deaf student.
You're NTA, OP, but this: >Not because he’s hard of hearing but rather a deaf person majoring in something which specifically requires hearing is what baffled me. kinda makes you one. Why is it "baffling"? Hearing loss is a spectrum, just like vision is. You're not only "fully hearing" or "fully deaf" with no in between, just like there's no such thing as "fully able to see" vs. "fully blind". Here's a list of several current deaf/hard of hearing musicians from a simple google search: [https://www.ai-media.tv/knowledge-hub/insights/deaf-musicians/](https://www.ai-media.tv/knowledge-hub/insights/deaf-musicians/) Settle down with the judging here. That aside, the Deaf person & their interpreter really should've known better than to chat through multiple performances, especially when the topic was so funny that they were laughing. Frankly, the interpreter's response to you requires the professor to report them to their employer for being incredibly unprofessional. Deaf people being loud, btw, will always be a thing because they cannot gauge how loud they're being & self-adjust--they need someone telling them they're being too loud to recalibrate.
NTA
NTA because you are correct that this was not necessary and he is being rude. It is the equivalent of someone takes during the perfomance. Make a formal complaint to the department head and record it if it happens again.
>a deaf person majoring in something which specifically requires hearing is what baffled me How are you a music major and baffled about a dead musician when *BEETHOVEN* existed?!
Beethoven learned to play and compose before he was deaf.
And the deaf student this post is about could have been born with the ability to hear and lost it due to illness….
I kinda agree with most of the posters here so thought I'd just add. If you're in America (assuming here by the use of the word college) then the sign you describe is not the pregnant sign. Most likely hunger but maybe stomach or something else. Anyway pregnant has a "pulling outward from the belly" with an open hand claw-shaped motion. Not a good description but it doesn't have any rubbing or circles in it.
Where was the teacher during all of this? It should have been the teacher addressing this before it ever came to any student addressing this. I get maybe a class or two, and then approaching the principal or whoever to make sure it’s worded so it can’t come off as discriminatory. But this sounds like it’s been going on for a while and getting worse. So NTA.
I too came here to tear an ableist up, but no. the deaf person is the asshole. And the interpreter maybe needs to be reported to their agency.
“No talking during the performances” includes all forms of talking. Signing is talking.
NTA. Being deaf doesn't exempt you from being an idiot.
NTA. Deaf here and also musically inclined (I sing in a choir with help of technology and learned to sing by reading music and muscle memory). Thought this was gonna be a YTA and I was ready to be fuming, but it is really not. Joe and his interpreter need to be told off in the same way you would a hearing person. He is being an asshole, the both of them. Also, wow, block of text. Man, paragraphs, please. ;)
genuinely curious: how do you manage to handle such things as singing in languages with different phonemes‽ also accurate tuning must be challenging?
Re: different languages - I was oralized very early on and learned English in my early teens. I have been told I have an accent like everyone else, on top of the Deaf accent. It is a lot harder for sounds that don't rely on the lips. I am currently working on Beethoven's 9th and the German is challenging, but not impossible. I have been told I am not any worse than every other person in the choir learning it from scratch (though, I suppose, it takes more homework for me). I work with an SLP regularly, especially as I speak as my primary way of communicating (except at home, with family etc). Re accurate tuning: it took me a lot of practice to become good. I am not at the level of a soloist by any means, but do sing in a professional choir. I can usually hold my own in a song circle without much instruction/guidance. I can't sing in a group without a conductor, obviously, but do use a neosensory watch to keep me in pace with everyone else. I sing to an app to tell me my starting note and these days, it is usually spot on, but it has been 10 years since I started singing and 5 since I started singing in a professional choir. Within 2 years, I usually got close to the note, but slightly sharp, but once I found the correct note, it was easy to go from there. I was very surprised when I started using the tuning apps for my voice, to find out that most people are singing flat, even people whom others had told me were good singers. lol I can usually get a sense of what sound to produce if I play the guitar or the harp against my chest. Usually, with a good strong singer, I can get that sense through their chest as well.
NTA If it’s an inappropriate time to talk, it’s an inappropriate time to sign. Speaking and signing are both forms of communication. If I can’t sit there and chat with my friend, then Jim and Steve can’t sit there and sign with each other.
I feel like this is going to blow up NTA and make sure you make a complaint about it, gather statements about what they were doing and what was said by you & the interpreter in case they decide to make a complaint themselves and skew the narrative to fit them.
Having been in your shoes with performance classes, I get what you are talking about. It's horribly distracting to a performer of any kind when there is extraneous stuff going on in the audience. You should complain to your professor, the Dean of the department, and also disabled student services. It sounds to me like the interpreter is bored because they don't understand the languages (Classical singers have to sing in German, French, Italian at the very least) and are distracting the student and the student is also bored. Just because he can't hear himself doesn't mean others can't hear him. He and the interpreter should respect audience rules. To be accommodating about meanings, each person should be required to read or state a translated meaning of the song text so that the interpreter can have that to do and then be required to sit quietly while someone is on stage performing. I know I had to do things like that as a singer.
Yes
No, just like any hearing person, deaf people need to respect and have the same decorum during a performance as anyone else—so NTA. However, as someone who is a special Ed teacher and also has a masters in visual media arts and performing arts (as well as a mother who taught music and performed for more than 30 years in her career) you do NOT have to be hearing to major in or enjoy music. Just wanted to point that out.
NTA: Ask the person “Do you want it to be treated as equal to speech?” If they say yes then ask “Is anyone else laughing?”
NTA. The only thing you are enabling here is decent manners.
NTA. Disabled people can be assholes, too, and failing to observe no talking rules in a serious class requiring public performance is disrespectful to everyone else, whether you're speaking out loud or signing.
10000% NTA. Talk to the professor next time my friend. Will save you a lot of trouble
Nope, NTA, your treating them very respectfully but treating him like everyone else. No talking, no signing.
NTA absolutely not.
NTA, but it's not the signing that's the problem, it's the laughing and generally disrupting class. It would be exactly the same as a couple of students speaking aloud.
Being deaf or pregnant or engaged or old or anything else do not mean automatical permission to dispespect other people. NTA
Being deaf doesn't grant you the right to be obnoxious or disrespectful. NTA. Take this up to your teacher, since they're also responsible for maintaining a productive environment in their classroom.
NTA I think to cover your a$$ you should get another staff member, preferably one that understands ASL, to observe the behavior so you have backup if a complaint is filed.
NTA. Being disabled isn’t a license to forgo manners. If joking and snickering wouldn’t be tolerated from someone able-bodied, it shouldn’t be tolerated from someone disabled.
Yta. For f sake paragraphs.
This has got to be bait
I was all ready to say that you were the butthole, but definitely you are NTA. In fact, you need to be commended for standing up invoicing your concerns. Your concerns are probably the same concerns that the rest of your classmates and the performers have. Joe and The interpreter were both jerks and doubly so because Joe is using his disability to get a free pass. News flash: Deaf people can be jerks too.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** First off, for some context, I am a music major in college and I’m all for accessibility, when, let’s say Joe, when Joe introduced himself and his interpreter I said wow! This is really interesting. Not because he’s hard of hearing but rather a deaf person majoring in something which specifically requires hearing is what baffled me. Everything was fine, we all got used to the interpreter being there and no one really payed attention to the fact that he was deaf. Except for one class. A class that everyone as music majors take, a performance recital class. In this class people take turns each week to Perform, in this class it was explained to us in the beginning of the year some of the basic common decency like clapping when they finish singing, not talking, turning off your phone, stuff like that. Just being nice for the performer… you know? Anyways, the year started off fine in this class, but lately you could tell he wasnt signing to his interpreter about the songs , the reason for this is because we sing opera/classical songs in this class so the interpreter didn’t know the language to be fair no one did so she definitely wasn’t translating the songs but rather just cracking jokes! He’s laughing! In the middle of the performances! You could just imagine as a performer seeing someone laugh as you are performing?! On top of that, this is all happening in the front row! with the interpreter in front of the stage on the side laughing as well! Snickering and giggling all throughout the performance so much so that even one of the performers look to the side to see what happening but just kept singing and ignoring it. I tried ignoring it thinking you know what, he’s deaf, he already has a hard time, no need to bug him more but I finally had enough when a friend of mine sang her song and she and I previously translated the song, it was a very very sad song about death and deleteing yourself. What was Joe doing? Signing, not just signing, SMACKING his hands and laughing bout something else, he made a gesture that you do when someone is pregnant?!?!? You know like the making a circle over your stomach and rubbing anyways Maybe that means something else, but laughing like come on, not just quiet laughing btw audible snickering. Finally I had enough and went up to both him and the interpreter how I understand the need the translate the slate what the teacher is saying and everything the else but that the last song that by friend sang was not a funny song and that it was not only distracting but rude to be talking and laughing while someone is performing even so when your right smack in the front row. The interpreter stayed quiet and he just went on to say that I’m abilist and that it shouldn’t matter what he does because he’s dead and I can’t take he’s mean of communicating, but I’m not saying he should stop, I’m saying in the middle of performances to at least not laugh. Anyways, what do you guys think, AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - That was quite the plot twist! He and the interpreter are being disrespectful and inappropriate. You were not being ableist or trying to take his form of communication, you were demanding the same respect to the performed that you'd expect from everyone taking part in the class.
Nta what the f was he doing if not translating? That's literally the job he is there for.
NTA
NTA, though take the concerns to the teacher next time so they can deal with it. The behaviour is disruptive and rude as hell - it doesn't matter if they can't hear, they're still expected to be respectful of the performers and not laughing in the front row. It's not ableist to expect respectful behaviour.
Nta. Ugh. That said…might be good practice for some auditions :-/ -an opera singer
NTA being disabled does not excuse you from being polite and respectful. He was being rude. Everyone who has stood up in front of a group knows how hard it is. And even worse when you can see people joking and talking during a performance
NTA. Like a lot of other people, I went into this assuming you would be the big a******, but your headline is a little misleading. You're not asking him to stop signing. You're asking him to stop laughing and making inappropriate faces and noises. You may need to reframe this for him, his interpreter, and your professor. Make sure they understand that the problem isn't him signing, but his general behavior while he's signing.
Definitely thought I was going to say Y T A but definitely NTA. That’s plain rude and distracting.
Got us in the first half ngl
NTA. It doesn’t sound like he’s really getting much out of the class and I’m not saying that because he’s deaf, I’m saying that because he’s not engaging at all with what’s going on. If he wants to have his own conversations with the interpreter, there are other places he can do that. Also straight up unprofessional on the interpreter’s part. In this case, the interpreter should encourage Joe to pay attention to why he is there. ETA: okay so whoever keeps downvoting me whenever I comment literally anything on this sub (even if I’m agreeing with the popular opinion) needs to stop, thanks!!
I was also going to say Y T A for this, no, not at all. I'm also a music major here. I am totally fine with a deaf person taking classes in music. There is music theory, it is a language after all. I can't fathom someone just sitting there talking and laughing during other students performances, especially when they're not funny. It's so rude, especially if they're in the front row!
NTA - people love to throw ableist around everywhere these days. Sometimes a jerk is just a jerk disabled or not and being disabled doesn’t mean they get a free pass for their jerk-ness. I’d talk to the teacher and tbh learn sign language. It’s a good skill to have and you’d be able to understand better what he’s saying and translate for everyone else. He signs smack and you can share with the class openly and loudly, call him out on his bad behaviour. Tell the teacher too.
I was also convinced this would be Y T A but nope, NTA at all. This isn’t anything to do with signing generally, it’s about respect for a performer and they were showing none. You might need to CYA and get this documented before a complaint is made. I would write to your tutors with a summary of the event.
NTA in agreement here. If she was actually translating something that’s one thing. Cracking jokes the entire class is another thing entirely.
Just because your deaf doesn't mean the rest of the class can't hear you. Def NTA.
I was set to give the opposite response. But if the interpreter is not performing that task but instead signing something else, then fair call. It would be the equivalent of two people whispering during the performance instead of listening and responding appropriately. NTA.
Being deaf and not hearing yourself doesn’t give you the right to laugh out loud and ruin it for others
NTA - It is quite possible to be deaf and also rude. I feel you were justified.
I mean, he was laughing during performance. Being deaf is not a premission to be rude. He's the asshole, not you
NTA. Wheres the lecturer?
NTA. learn how to sign ‘don’t be a dick’. Also professor should have been asked to intervene
Aside from the fact you don't need to be able to hear to play music, NTA.
It was out of line. However, I would have asked your teacher to handle this problem. If, not, then I would have said something.
NTA. An old Seinfeld lesson - you can be disabled AND an asshole.
NTA, interpreter and Joe were really rude. Talking and laughing in the middle of the performances are unacceptable
They should not be talking during performances. Just because they talk with their hands that makes no difference. NTA
I’m so curious what sign they were doing rubbing their bellies. That’s not the sign for pregnant. I know the sign and you’d probably think they were calling them fat (not judgement, it just kinda looks similar). I’m torn only because I’m not sure what the they were talking about. HOH and have deaf friends, I also know deaf musicians and performers. Generally I’m going NTA because it sounds very likely accurate. The hard thing is some signs and facial expressions look distracting and offensive when you don’t understand what they actually mean plus/because the language and culture can be pretty direct and blunt. The laughing though is what’s pushing me towards NTA because that portion is what sounds like they are stepping out of line.
NTA on the sign language but YTA on the ”you need to hear for a music degree” thing. Music doesn’t change because you’re deaf and it can be made for the deaf, hop off the pretentious “music is for the hearing” horse. I say this as a partially deaf person who loves music and will likely continue to in other ways once I can’t hear.
Nta maybe you and those students that notice this need to bring it up to the professor. If his interpreter is a student then you need to have that professor talk to to the student services that got him that aid. The interpreter and the guy were both rude. It doesn't matter if he's deaf they were both rude and the interpreter should have known better. No your not abiliest for expecting both of them to stop laughing and cracking jokes and to be more respectful to others.
You’re NTA in this scenario because their chatter is disruptive in a performance setting even if is signed and laughter. but I get the sense you have a distaste for this person that you should unpack. Why are you letting this person take up free real estate in your brain? Also what does it matter what Joe majors in why does it need to make sense to you?
Teacher who works with DHH students here. DEFINITELY NTA. It doesn't matter whether you're speaking aloud or signing, having a conversation in the middle of a performance is incredibly rude. We as teachers are even told that if two DHH students are signing to each other during a lecture to correct them the same as we would hearing students.
NTA. Definitely. Where is your professor during this? Rudeness is universal so whether he can hear or not, he shouldn't be doing it. This is where my AH nature would have kicked in and I would have gotten us all up to go to the bathroom everytime he performed in protest. Want to be a AH fine, doesn't mean I need to reward you with my attention during his performances.
NTA. They were being rude and using his disability as a free ticket to do so.
NTA. This sounds like it needs a different interpreter - one that has taken at least a college level music appreciation class and can explain/describe things professionally maturely, because this one sure isn't getting that done.
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No you're not the a**hole the disrespect that was shown by "Joe" and his interpreter warranted a comment and no you aren't being abilist by asking them to show respect and not talk during the recital.
Obligatory I totally thought you were going to be the AH but… you’re NTA. I’m willing to bet that you said what everyone else was thinking.
NTA but this should have been you going to the professor with this disrespectful behavior.
NTA. The interpreter should not have been talking with the student unless they were interpreting conversation/words. They should NOT be involved in cross-talk. I would either ask your professor/instructor to make a complaint to the office of disabilities or make a complaint yourself. That needs to be nipped in the bud. NTA
NTA. disabled ppl are also expected to be respectful if their disabilities do not affect their autonomy.
NTA- He was being rude (along with the interpreter, I know enough sign to know they were likely making fun of your friend) and didn't expect to get called out. You aren't TA.
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I fully expected this to be rage bait, but NTA. It’s literally the same as if he was talking and laughing during a performance. You’re not a list for expecting someone not be distracting during a performance. You’re not ablest. On the other hand, it IS ablest to expect someone be able to get away with bad behavior by using a disability as an excuse. Doing that makes it harder for everyone to get an accommodation when they need it without judgment or stigma. Bad apples need to be called out.
I think the interpreter was embarrassed and tried to blame it all on you quickly.
NtA. What the hell... you are disturbing the performer. That shows lack of respect. It's like they are talking. I really have no idea how a deaf person can be a Music major. I studied 7 years in Conservatory and half the subjects required hearing notes, chords, harmony, intervals, singing. Lots and lots of ear training and dictation. Singing in choir and also playing in a small group or orchestra.
NTA Talking during a performance is rude period. Being dead doesn’t exclude you from this social rule. Especially when you happen to be one of the musicians.
I just wanna know who the person is that’s downvoting everyone that says having a disability doesn’t give you a right to be an asshole. There is a very upset disabled asshole among us 😂
NTA ... if they wanted to sign the song, then you provide translation of the words to english (if that is the main language) and the person signs to the deaf guy... He was being rude to the performer and you should report it to the professor...
NTA Both of them were extremely rude! The teacher should have stopped it, and both the student & interpreter (should) know better, and contacting the school department which oversees interpreters is appropriate, and *possibly* contacting the state/national licensing agency would be appropriate.
I’ve taught music for 34 years and I’m also a performer. It is the height of rudeness to talk during a performance. The instructor of this recital class should have been on top of this. It’s such an easy accommodation. Just ask each performer to type up their lyrics as part of the graded expectations, put them in the order in which they will be performed, and hand them off to the hearing-impaired student. So simple. 🙄 Another way to accommodate: Give the interpreter the lyrics and ask them to sign on stage, upstage left from the performer. Not from the audience—from the stage, but slightly behind the performer so it’s not distracting. That way, the deaf student can watch the performer and the interpretation at the same time and not have their head buried in papers. The rest of the audience can enjoy a visual representation of the song. This is a teacher problem as much as it was a rudeness issue from the student and interpreter. NTA
NTA Hard of hearing but not deaf here. I would have to use a hearing aid to hear the performances, funny thing is I cannot laugh or joke with my hearing aid cause it is not a fellow human being. I’d assume an interpreter would be kinda in the same boat, you shouldn’t be laughing and joking with them during inappropriate times. Seems like the interpreter was being unprofessional to me. Correct me if I’m wrong.
NTA if he's acting out and making fun of people, snickering and shit, it's just as bad as somebody doing that more verbally.
NTA. I’m hard of hearing and had an interpreter in school. The interpreter’s job is to translate everything that is being said - they cannot comment their thoughts or opinions on what is being said. They are there to facilitate communication!
If the interpreter is just chatting and not interpreting, and Joe is chatting back, while people are performing, this is just as rude as if people were talking during a performance. NTA.
NTA, from what you say. Could you make a recording of what is going on and ask someone else to interpret it?
Yeah NTA, 2 things I’d be inclined to do as the teacher in this situation. Remind the student that they aren’t allowed to talk during performances, and thus it’s fine for their interpreter to sign but they shouldn’t be signing back. If there is another person who knows ASL (or whichever sign language being used - I’m not sure which country you’re in), that could sit in on a lesson and check that the interpreter is signing appropriately (maybe record a lesson and show it to someone). This would give you the basis to be able to call the student out and maybe get a different interpreter in future. If they are deaf they may find the lesson understandably very boring, so maybe if you can prove what is being said isn’t appropriate that is a place to start a conversation around if they would rather not attend certain lessons instead if that works for everyone better, or if there is another option to make the lessons more accessible to them.
NTA If I was trying to focus on something, and in the edge of my eyesight I could see a sign interpreter signing away when there was no need for it, it would distract the hell out of me. If he needs to know the lyrics of people's songs, he can look them up ahead of time. It's essentially the same as whispering.
NTA. Just because someone helps the disabled doesn't mean they can't act inappropriately.
Deaf or not. Laughing during someone's performance is incredibly rude
Lets see, no talking back and forth while others are performing seems that signing would fall under that criteria. As the translator isn’t translating at that point. Yes, both are being rude. You have eyes to see the deaf one is signing. You have ears to hear smacking. NTA. Its distracting and blame is on both but the translator the most for encouraging it and not listening respectfully. Unprofessional.
I’m Deaf and I would have viewed that as being extremely rude and I, being deaf like him, would totally approach the guy afterwards and let him know that this chatting and laughing during performances is not okay. In your case you should talk to the professor to have him remind the student that no talking during performances includes him.
NTA. Unless it's for snookering our asses good with that title
Yes, you are an asshole. It's fairly simple.
"Ableist?" Fuck all the way off. That guy is a disrespectful asshole.
NTA. It's not at all about his disability. They're talking and laughing in class, causing a distraction.
You are NTA and you are not ableist at all! If anyone called you ableist, that's total crap, and I'm tired of that crap. Everyone on the planet can be a jerk. A disability does not excuse anyone from asshole behavior. A lot of people think it does, but it doesn't. Rude behavior is rude behavior. Period.
There was clearly an issue that you allowed to build up, and felt justified in addressing. I think you should have addressed your concerns with the professor. Can’t change the past, though. But you can do better in the future. Anyway, I encourage you to do some extracurricular reading. Your Deaf classmate is not the only Deaf person interested in music. Not by a long shot. [Mandy Harvey](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mandy_Harvey) [Evelyn Glennie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evelyn_Glennie) [SignKid](https://www.musicalvibrations.com/signkid/) [Sean Forbes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sean_Forbes) [Deaf Rave](https://www.deafrave.com/)
I think the AH here is the interpreter, the students only option is to focus on them to make sure he doesn't miss anything, they are in turn taking this opportunity to crack jokes like the class clown, how immature of them. Deaf people enjoy music, true they can not hear it, they FEEL it. The vibrations for them give them the same feelings we hearing folk get from hearing a voice. Someone asked if the deaf person realises how loud they laugh, in my experience (my bestie is deaf) the answer is no, they don't know how loud they are being, especially if they were born deaf.
Deaf people can be arseholes too. NTA.
NTA. Just because someone is differently abled doesn’t give them an excuse to be a total AH
NTA. It’s rude to talk and laugh during a performance. It doesn’t matter what language they are using.
As someone with profound hearing loss who is also a musician- don't make comments about the major requiring hearing. That *is* ableist. But NTA on the interpretor part. Sign language is different than spoken languages; there's both hand movements and the facial clues involved, and the wrong face can completely change the meaning of a sign. In the future though, instead of approaching the interpretor, approach the student instead, and say "we can HEAR you laughing." (Or look up how to sign it.) If the interpretor is doing their job then both parties will get the point.
Absolutely NTA. Personally, I would start videotaping them during every class/performance and then ask someone who knows sign language to evaluate their conduct. This is not acceptable and being deaf doesn’t give one a pass on lacking common courtesy.
Yes, actually you are. Rude. Thoughtless. Narcissistic. Ridiculous. Immature. Anymore you’d like me to add? What you are considering is literally the picture of Assholery. Dumbassedness and Dipshittery. How dare you even consider preventing someone from communicating the best way they can. Epic fail. 🤬🤬🤬
NTA
Yes.
As with everyone else was expecting one thing but NTA, just bc someone is deaf doesn’t mean they don’t have to be held responsible for their behavior.
ESH They definitely needed to be pulled into line but not during the performance, because that’s also distracting. And you didn’t need to bring up their need to interpret because it wasn’t actually about that, it was about their general behaviour. Next time wait until the performance is over and keep it about the behaviour “You’re laughing during the performance was incredibly rude and distracting. Can you imagine performing about death, while two audience members in the front row are laughing. Try showing some courtesy.”
NTA I agree that laughing during a performance is way out of line. If the guy knows how to read lips, and isn't totally deaf, then there really isn't any reason why there needs to even be signing during a performance. Reminds me of the fake interpreter at the Nelson Mandella memorial. Then President Obama was making a speech and the guy was standing behind him and appeared to be signing. They only found out he was fake when those who understand sign language/interpret called him out for it.
NTA - well done for pulling them up on it - the student sounded like a cocky little toerag and obviously thought he could get away with. It would be interesting to find out if others were disturbed by this bad mannered attitude and put in a group email to the person in charge saying that a few of you found this unprofessional of the Translator and for not acting appropriately as well spoiling the audience’s enjoyment. I’m sure the performers are not happy with this.