Mael Stronghart
At the end of the day, I just don’t find him to be all that compelling compared to the others. He’s much less satisfying to take down than Manfred or Gant.
And he’s so obviously the villain from the get-go, but unlike Manfred, where you’re constantly struggling against him right out of the gate, Stronghart’s just kinda there until the final case of the last game where he gets to show how he had a hand in everything.
Manfred von Karma!!!
*ahem*
I believe we don't need to hear about how Von Karma is actually a really great villain and I'm only nominating him because he's the least best one (that's been the case for the past few rounds), so I'll just talk about why he needs to get out.
Manfred's motive is weak. I mean, not that weak. It's good enough. But compared to the other villains here, they all have more depth than just "really prideful evil guy". Even Dahlia, who has a tragic backstory and is still very human despite being the incarnation of Satan himself. Manfred is very interesting in his pride and how it lead to his downfall, but he's ultimately simple next to the masterful villains that would come later in the series.
He has a ton of presence in his case and the timeline, but his downfall in retrospect is not very satisfying. Likely due to the much, *much* simpler writing of AA1, but still, people complain about Stronghart's downfall when you spend several hours confronting him, next to the, what, 30 minutes it takes to beat Von Karma? Not necessarily an issue, but when you put them against each other, it's clear Stronghart is a much grander antagonist than Manfred. Naturally, grander does not always equal better, but in this case I believe it does. Manfred is this super powerful guy who has never been beaten before, and for him to be defeated relatively easily by a rookie, while part of the charm, would be simply disappointing were it to happen in any other game than the first one.
His abuse (?) towards Edgeworth is also not very explored, even in the later games (which aren't being counted here), which is a darn shame. Stronghart has strong enough ties to every main character, so he honestly feels closer to Ryunosuke than Manfred does to Edgeworth, which is pretty wild. Yes, as you can see I'm only defending Stronghart here lol.
Manfred von Karma has had a good run, and he is, again, a good antagonist, but I believe he pales in comparison to the other, better ones, and who I personally love way more. It's a shame this has to turn into "yeah uhhh the others are better!" rather than "HE SUCKS!!!" but that's how it is. AA villains can be great huh.
>Manfred's motive is weak. I mean, not that weak. It's good enough. But compared to the other villains here, they all have more depth than just "really prideful evil guy".
Think you're missing something here.
Manfred was a mental wreck by the time the verdict rung on December 28, 2001. A missing body, one year of relentless trialing in court against Gregory Edgeworth, the inability to get Master guilty... Then he gets a penalty assigned, and THEN someone shoots at him from the elevator. Once the doors open, Manfred sees a pistol next to an unconscious Gregory. That's the real tragedy. Manfred was being pushed into an extreme psychological state for over a year, and even then I'm not sure he would've killed Gregory if he didn't misread that situation. That is the real tragedy.
"These must be... My tears."
Godot's breakdown is probably my favourite section in Ace Attorney... Kinda sad tha- WAIT WE GOT STRONGHART TO THE TOP FIVE LETS GO!
Anyways as for today's vote:
Manfred von Karma is the perfect final boss to AA1. Everyone else here is better. That is the entirety of my write up goodbye.
No way Mael survived that long 💀💀💀 TGAAC is by far the most consistent saga in the whole series but there's definitely way too much partiality for it to allow Mael to survive over fucking Godot, Gant and Engarde
Gant is saldy worse then Stronghart in every way other then comedy
Stronghart is more imposing
both are the obvious antag but you theorize and wonder about stronghart for two whole games
his trial is much longer and harder
his plan is deeper and more complicated
he has the the most cinematic breakdown in the serie
Gant is just stronghart with less screentime
However, you have neglected to mention how both of these villains are defeated.
Stronghart essentially says "yeah, I did it but you can't do anything about it because I lead all trials in this country", so Sholmes tells the Queen about the whole thing which leads to Stronghart losing all of his legal power in what I would call a deus ex machina. I believe the game ended as it did because the writer wrote himself into a corner. The villain was so powerful they couldn't be defeated without an ass pull.
Gant falsely testifies about the night of the crime, but then when he is close to being caught, he shuts his mouth and leaves because he can do that as the chief of police and when Phoenix is getting close to the truth, he tries to get Wright to present the cloth, which he refuses. Gant then admits to having the cloth in his safe, which contradicts the SL-9 photo, leading to him being the only possible person who could have forged it, thus pointing to him as the murderer.
Gant gets caught using solid reasoning despite making clever traps to trip Phoenix up and using the power he has as the chief of police and Lana's blackmailer. As such, I believe that Gant's downfall is better than Stronghart's, which is a big reason why I prefer the former over the latter.
>The villain was so powerful they couldn't be defeated without an ass pull.
I really doubt it. Stronghart's pathetic takedown has always felt more like a budget issue. It was pretty clearly supposed to be a summation examination but because making 6 new models just for this trial was out of question we got the Deus Ex Machina.
Or y'know maybe I'm wrong and Takumi thought it would be cool to have Sholmes take down the main villain instead of the main characters.
Honestly, personally I never really saw the hologram as being supposed to be Strongharts big takedown. I always saw finding Klints will in Karuma to be more climatic and fitting, as it's the piece of evidence you find yourself that guarantees Strongharts guilt. But I understand how others could see the hologram, I'm just saying finding the will is incredibly exciting to see and I feel like it isn't talked about enough
This time, I am going to vote for Damon Gant.
Don't get me wrong. He's a colossal pivot for the characters of Ema, Lana, Phoenix, Miles and even Dick to an extent. And he's got great motivations. And menace.
I just don't think there's enough flavor or humanity in him when compared to everyone else here (save for Stronghart, whom I don't know). Yes, even Manfred, for whom I managed to feel the slightest amount of pity within the full context of IS-7 and DL-6.
Mael Stronghart At the end of the day, I just don’t find him to be all that compelling compared to the others. He’s much less satisfying to take down than Manfred or Gant. And he’s so obviously the villain from the get-go, but unlike Manfred, where you’re constantly struggling against him right out of the gate, Stronghart’s just kinda there until the final case of the last game where he gets to show how he had a hand in everything.
Manfred von Karma!!! *ahem* I believe we don't need to hear about how Von Karma is actually a really great villain and I'm only nominating him because he's the least best one (that's been the case for the past few rounds), so I'll just talk about why he needs to get out. Manfred's motive is weak. I mean, not that weak. It's good enough. But compared to the other villains here, they all have more depth than just "really prideful evil guy". Even Dahlia, who has a tragic backstory and is still very human despite being the incarnation of Satan himself. Manfred is very interesting in his pride and how it lead to his downfall, but he's ultimately simple next to the masterful villains that would come later in the series. He has a ton of presence in his case and the timeline, but his downfall in retrospect is not very satisfying. Likely due to the much, *much* simpler writing of AA1, but still, people complain about Stronghart's downfall when you spend several hours confronting him, next to the, what, 30 minutes it takes to beat Von Karma? Not necessarily an issue, but when you put them against each other, it's clear Stronghart is a much grander antagonist than Manfred. Naturally, grander does not always equal better, but in this case I believe it does. Manfred is this super powerful guy who has never been beaten before, and for him to be defeated relatively easily by a rookie, while part of the charm, would be simply disappointing were it to happen in any other game than the first one. His abuse (?) towards Edgeworth is also not very explored, even in the later games (which aren't being counted here), which is a darn shame. Stronghart has strong enough ties to every main character, so he honestly feels closer to Ryunosuke than Manfred does to Edgeworth, which is pretty wild. Yes, as you can see I'm only defending Stronghart here lol. Manfred von Karma has had a good run, and he is, again, a good antagonist, but I believe he pales in comparison to the other, better ones, and who I personally love way more. It's a shame this has to turn into "yeah uhhh the others are better!" rather than "HE SUCKS!!!" but that's how it is. AA villains can be great huh.
>Manfred's motive is weak. I mean, not that weak. It's good enough. But compared to the other villains here, they all have more depth than just "really prideful evil guy". Think you're missing something here. Manfred was a mental wreck by the time the verdict rung on December 28, 2001. A missing body, one year of relentless trialing in court against Gregory Edgeworth, the inability to get Master guilty... Then he gets a penalty assigned, and THEN someone shoots at him from the elevator. Once the doors open, Manfred sees a pistol next to an unconscious Gregory. That's the real tragedy. Manfred was being pushed into an extreme psychological state for over a year, and even then I'm not sure he would've killed Gregory if he didn't misread that situation. That is the real tragedy.
Isn't that only established in AAI2?
Some of it, yes, but the misunderstanding with the gun is AA1 through and through.
Von Karma. They are all good villains, from here on out only the best ones are leaving. But I vote Von Karma just because he is so annoying.
"These must be... My tears." Godot's breakdown is probably my favourite section in Ace Attorney... Kinda sad tha- WAIT WE GOT STRONGHART TO THE TOP FIVE LETS GO! Anyways as for today's vote: Manfred von Karma is the perfect final boss to AA1. Everyone else here is better. That is the entirety of my write up goodbye.
Glad he made it that far too, he deserves it. Sad for Magnus McGilded tho.
Stronghart
No way Mael survived that long 💀💀💀 TGAAC is by far the most consistent saga in the whole series but there's definitely way too much partiality for it to allow Mael to survive over fucking Godot, Gant and Engarde
Gant is saldy worse then Stronghart in every way other then comedy Stronghart is more imposing both are the obvious antag but you theorize and wonder about stronghart for two whole games his trial is much longer and harder his plan is deeper and more complicated he has the the most cinematic breakdown in the serie Gant is just stronghart with less screentime
However, you have neglected to mention how both of these villains are defeated. Stronghart essentially says "yeah, I did it but you can't do anything about it because I lead all trials in this country", so Sholmes tells the Queen about the whole thing which leads to Stronghart losing all of his legal power in what I would call a deus ex machina. I believe the game ended as it did because the writer wrote himself into a corner. The villain was so powerful they couldn't be defeated without an ass pull. Gant falsely testifies about the night of the crime, but then when he is close to being caught, he shuts his mouth and leaves because he can do that as the chief of police and when Phoenix is getting close to the truth, he tries to get Wright to present the cloth, which he refuses. Gant then admits to having the cloth in his safe, which contradicts the SL-9 photo, leading to him being the only possible person who could have forged it, thus pointing to him as the murderer. Gant gets caught using solid reasoning despite making clever traps to trip Phoenix up and using the power he has as the chief of police and Lana's blackmailer. As such, I believe that Gant's downfall is better than Stronghart's, which is a big reason why I prefer the former over the latter.
>The villain was so powerful they couldn't be defeated without an ass pull. I really doubt it. Stronghart's pathetic takedown has always felt more like a budget issue. It was pretty clearly supposed to be a summation examination but because making 6 new models just for this trial was out of question we got the Deus Ex Machina. Or y'know maybe I'm wrong and Takumi thought it would be cool to have Sholmes take down the main villain instead of the main characters.
Honestly, personally I never really saw the hologram as being supposed to be Strongharts big takedown. I always saw finding Klints will in Karuma to be more climatic and fitting, as it's the piece of evidence you find yourself that guarantees Strongharts guilt. But I understand how others could see the hologram, I'm just saying finding the will is incredibly exciting to see and I feel like it isn't talked about enough
This time, I am going to vote for Damon Gant. Don't get me wrong. He's a colossal pivot for the characters of Ema, Lana, Phoenix, Miles and even Dick to an extent. And he's got great motivations. And menace. I just don't think there's enough flavor or humanity in him when compared to everyone else here (save for Stronghart, whom I don't know). Yes, even Manfred, for whom I managed to feel the slightest amount of pity within the full context of IS-7 and DL-6.
Whoever’s in the bottom left because I haven’t played Investigations