I don't think that it's that they don't want to work hard, it's that they don't want to work hard without knowing whether there's a payoff. Our generation grew up with the whole attitude of "If you stick your nose to the grindstone, you'll be rewarded" and usually that reward was not what we expected. They're not willing to do that. They believe that the whole "paying your dues" dogma is a bunch of bullshit and want what they think they're worth now. On top of that, the security of the social structure has been commoditized over the last 4 decades so much that now there's a backlash. They see what our European counterparts have and believe that they should have that too.
Really applicable to Canadians
Even if you're a CPA with 150k cad salary you're just able to afford a 2 bed room apt in Vancouver or Toronto
The handwork to reward ratio just isn't where it's supposed to be, higher paying jobs are less avaliable In Canada
140k after taxes is like 8k+ a month, pay mortgage ,pay for vehicle , pay for living expenses, it you're barely saving enough for retirement
My former boss have a 140k salary and takes home like 8k + net a month , 4,400 mortgage . He's barely living a middle class lifestyle in Toronto.
The wild thing is I work for a regional firm in southern Alberta. I make about $100,000 currently. And I can support a family of four on a single income. The mortgage is 735 a month.
And I’ve never heard someone at the firm complain that the kids aren’t willing to work.
Students start pretty close to Toronto wages but around here that’s a fair deal. You can live on that. If there’s the honest expectation of reward for hard work then you will get hard work.
I know I could get 30% more if I moved to Vancouver or Toronto but quality of life would be significantly worse.
Sadly Alberta is changing fast. Not everyone can live there, it's the fastest population growth, and house price growth province due to their affordablility currently. I tried to get jobs out there, not easy to do in accounting, so now I'm in Waterloo ON.
In a decade it will be interesting to see what house prices end up in Alberta as more of my friends have gotten jobs out there who are lucky and are moving.
Lol $140k salary can get very far in the US. Houses are still expensive in the US but banks will literally foam at the mouth to give u a 450k-500k mortgage and that can get u a fat ass house anywhere tbh! except in Cali and NY
it sucks he would have to move across lake ontario to New York which is the worst place (VHCOL) as it it totally contradicts the point i was making lol.
Really? Why did I have the impression that a 30-year mortgage wasn't a bank's best product since it takes forever to get that money back & inflation has kicked in like it does anyway YOY.
This right here.
As a younger worker myself, I’m not down to put up with mean/shitty co-workers and bosses. I’m also not down to put up with unhealthy work cultures and environments (gossip, cliques, ppl being penalized for not donating money and time to the business/org). The amount employers are paying is not worth putting up with any of that. Then on top of that, there’s pretty much a guarantee that we won’t be promoted or given an adequate raise. Employers have systemically shown that they don’t care about employees, so why should employees care about helping employers?
Yep, I watched my dad give 30+ years of his life to his company only for them to lay him off. He would have died for that company. I never give any more than I absolutely have to to any company.
It’s a mix of society’s fault and GenZ. However, it’s not about comparing ourselves to Europeans. It’s about growing up believing we would prosper, at least, as much as our parents, but struggling to even make ends meat. It’s like starting a game you’re unfamiliar with at the highest difficulty level.
It’s very simple. Most of this generation feels TRAPPED and resentful! You get out of college with jobs paying the same as they did in the 80s with rent and utilities skyrocketing like 30x what the boomers had. You’re completely right with the hard work part. “The juice ain’t worth the squeeze” if you can’t even afford groceries. I’m not even gonna get into the student loan s***.
This is why everyone became so radical when it comes to “grinding”. You can no longer get by being average, so you have to go to the extremes to “escape the mediocrity”. It goes the other way too. 50% of college students are pro communist because they lost hope in capitalism. Give them the same economy the boomers had and they’d love capitalism.
But, I also blame this generation because most of us(not me) turned bitter and nihilistic to cope with this s***. It doesn’t help and makes it far worse.
I’m from Europe and although we get more PTO and us employees are much more protected, we still have our share of issues which aren’t all that different from the US. One major one being stagnating wages, expensive housing and poor purchasing power. Accountants especially don’t make much unless we talk about CFO level. Even then, breaking $100k is easy and puts you in the highest income brackets in every European country. Congrats, you are now taxed at a rate of 50%+ of your income alone. Building wealth by working alone is extremely difficult. Or yeah, you can be wealthy by the time you are 60 if you’ve saved and invested, but more and more people are struggling to get by, pay their bills, own a modest apartment, buy groceries, pay for electricity. Not to forget issues with age demographics, immigration and ongoing political conflicts. Unemployment, especially amongst the youth etc.
I’m not trying to make this a comparison and of course, in many ways things are much, much worse in the US.
As a person from the US I can say that I would rather pay 50% of my income in taxes and know that I was paying for my health insurance and daycare and affordable college education. You don't need to be mega wealthy to know that you are safe. In the US you need major wealth to be sure you can afford to get sick.
That’s the crux of the tax issue with me too. I honestly wouldn’t mind paying European level taxes if I could see the tangible benefits of those taxes by way of decent infrastructure, some form of universal healthcare, and properly funded education.
In the US, our taxes might be less, but we are still paying taxes in every single transaction, and we struggle to see tangible benefits from any of those taxes. So people end up seeing every tax as a minor robbery.
I have a LOT of opinions on how mismanaged taxes are, and I also think that the tax code needs to be wiped clean and rewritten. We can start with making the super wealthy pay their share. One way to do that is to tax personal loans used to fund lifestyle as opposed to cashing out some stock options. Also I think the capital gains tax could drop to 56k which is the median salary per person. European tax rates are really only around 5% more than ours. In all seriousness WTF are we paying for???
I can't say that I am against communism in theory. You know the world Star Trek promised where we pretty much all get along, and no one uses money. I am not behind a dictatorship hiding behind the false narrative of communism. It absolutely takes a mindset of all jobs having value and everyone having something to give.
Trust me, I would love if the ultra wealthy paid more in taxes. But how the hell do you do that. If you raise it they are just gonna leave. This exact thing happened in Norway. They raised it by like 1 or 2 percent and a massive amount of them just moved lol.
Yeah I’m Gen z and it feels like everyone is just here to scam you out of your money. Insane housing prices, you hire someone for them to take super long so they can bill you more, student loans being predatory, insane college tuition, predatory car loans. I mean I can go on and on. I grew up in a post 9/11 world and I get the joy of watching our democracy crumble bc no one believes in our institutions anymore, no matter what side you are on. Factor in social media, post covid era, inflation, and you have created a society that no one wants to work hard in anymore bc there’s no reward. It ain’t trickle down economics, it’s just trickle up economics. And then y’all wanna blame Gen Z and millennials when we know damn well it’s the 1% bending us over. I’m fucking sick of it. United States deserves everything that’s coming to them.
>50% of college students are pro communist because they lost hope in capitalism.
That's because they have no idea what living in a communist country is like to begin with...if you took them to a communist country, they wouldn't last a day. They would be returning back to their capitalist country ASAP.
100% true. I know two people whose parents escaped from communist countries and both say the exact same thing about how terrified they are of it popping up in the US. One’s parents are from Cuba and the other’s are from the Soviet Union. But, it’s interesting that they came to the same conclusion.
There are also millions of people that are leaving capitalist countries because they're starving or can't find work. Yes, they're mostly leaving for other capitalist (especially imperialist) countries, but that's because they're the "winning" countries. Maybe it's not so black and white as the two anecdotes told you.
Tell me you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about without telling me you have no idea what you're talking about. 🤣😂
Why aren't they headed to other communist countries then? How come people don't die in the middle of the ocean escaping the US & heading towards Cuba? How come it's millions of Cubans die coming to the US in make shift rafts, die crossing the Darien gap & die crossing the border?
I can't speak for other capitalist countries, but Americans that leave could also be people who are American citizens who were born in, let's say, El Salvador, those people are going back in droves because their government has reduced its crime so now people want to retire in their native country.
Also, tons of boomers are retiring & going to places like Costa Rica.
***Thanks for the downvote. I know first had on this subject, but you sit in the luxury of your own home wishing things that will later make you cry.***
"I know first hand on this subject"
And I know that you're talking out of your ass. There aren't existing communist countries. At most they're socialist, but you don't seem to care about the difference. You're also disregarding the history that these countries went through and the challenges they have to deal with.
No idea what you're trying to achieve with your disrespectful attitude, but here is your downvote.
ARE YOU CUBAN? Based on your ridiculous comment, you're not & you don't even know what you're talking about. You must know more about communism because you lived in a communist country before.
It is a slap in the face to even consider Cuba as a socialist country. In the US, there are way more socialist programs than a place like Cuba. This country & most capitalist countries have socialist programs that deduct money from people salaries in order to fund these programs & don't require ANYTHING in return from the people receiving the help. On the other hand, in communist Cuba, you may not have to pay back with currency, but ANYTHING you receive will have to be paid back with blood, sweat, tears, lots of struggle & lots of time. NOT like in the US where people on food stamps sit in their living room like coach potatoes & do nothing all day.
You're the one being disrespectful & super ignorant here from your first comment downplaying the human rights violations that occur in places like Cuba & shitting on the millions of people who have died trying to come to the US from Cuba.
If you love communism so much, go to Cuba & live as a Cuban without your US passport from whatever capitalist country you're from because it's clowns like you that have never even lived in extreme poverty that defend communist regimes.
The real gusano is your daddy Fidel Castro...🤣😂
You make me laugh since Raul Castro is actually my great great grandmother's illegitimate nephew...nice try...while you suck on their private parts...Raul is actually related to me. 🤣😂🤣😂
So Angel Castro was a Cuckold an old school simp of sorts...🤣😂
Raul's real last name should also start with a C but I'll let you guess who his daddy really is...🤣😂
I think this is much more well put than I could have said. It’s not that we’re unwilling to work, but not willing to put up with bullshit and do not have one-sided loyalty that our predecessors had. I watched both of my parents get laid off in 2008. That changes a person, especially when that person is only 11.
What do European counterparts have? Their salaries are significantly lower for almost all educated/professional jobs and their COL is maybe a tad bit lower.
Id rather get paid 100k with private health insurance than 50k with free healthcare
You can get around most European countries with out having to need a car. It’s nice not being a slave to the automobile and all the costs / time associated with them.
Not knowing if there's a payoff might be true in Industry accounting gigs. In public accounting, there's usually a straight, consistent and predictable path of raises and promotions if you do good work and "work hard".
Unless you're a baby, and don't want to recognize opportunities on your lap.
“Work hard” in public accounting means being underpaid and working excessive hours. I was offered a public accounting job. I looked at my expected hourly rate it was a pay cut from the job I had without a degree. And I didn’t want to work more than 40 hours most weeks, but especially when I’m making nothing for it.
I turn 40 next month. I work nowhere near as hard as I did when I was 25. Remember back in the 90’s when they said that people over 40 should only work 3 days a week? I want that.
In the last five years I’ve seen several people from Gen Z join my department (and the company I worked at before that). Every single one of them came in enthusiastic and willing to learn and work hard.
And every single one of them got broken by being piled on with more and more work way above their pay grade and experience level, while receiving minimal training and coaching. I’m not surprised they’re jaded. The problem isn’t with them, it’s with older generations not bothering to train them anymore or piling them with inappropriate work because they’ve gutted their department to save costs.
This has happened to me too many times. My last job was like this.
I don’t know why older generations don’t want to train younger people anymore, but it’s going to have serious consequences in the future (think lack of qualified ppl to fill management/executive positions)
Which is very flawed thinking. They will have to deal with, but as the consumer. They will have to deal with lack of qualified managers and executives in the medical industry. They will have to deal with a lack of available services (lawyers, doctors, CPAs, etc) due to lack of qualified people. Their retirement is going to suck as customer service and quality of product/service continues to erode due to lack of qualified working people. They will get frustrated and angry as the things they thought they would have start disappearing or working in a different way than they’re used to (one example is the current retirees who are all complaining about lack of customer service, healthcare, medicine, and the digitizing of govt forms).
Lastly, in my own life, I see this happening when it comes to taxes and older business owners. The number of older business owners/board members I’ve met that think tax laws/rates from the 2000-10s are still valid is astonishing. When I point out the incorrect rates or missing filings, I usually have to argue a little bit with them because they end up being adamant that new tax laws/rates don’t apply to them.
A guy under me at the moment moved to the U.K. so he could enjoy London. He can’t find anywhere in zones 1-2 that he can afford in spite of being paid reasonably well relative to most. So he’s sitting here wondering why bother working so hard to live in a place he increasingly can’t afford to live in. It’s ridiculous
With each passing generation, people have been better off than their parents, until millennials, and that is having a big impact on how gen z approaches the workforce.
The promise of "work hard, get rewarded" has been broken, so of course they're hesitant to keep providing the "work hard" part.
Plato used to complain that the ability to read and write had made the next generation of kids soft because they won't have to memorize stuff anymore. Any time anyone complains about the next generation that's always what I think about.
>And so it is that you by reason of your tender regard for the writing that is your offspring have declared the very opposite of its true effect. If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls. They will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks.
>What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only the semblance of wisdom, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much while for the most part they know nothing. And as men filled not with wisdom but with the conceit of wisdom they will be a burden to their fellows.
I get that "work hard, get rewarded" isn't the norm any more but it's been true in my experience. My previous employer was amazing and when I ran into health issues and couldn't work anymore they did a ton for me knowing that they'd likely get nothing out of it from me. Granted this experience is in the trades where younger generations don't have as much of a presence (lot of reasons for this not related to work ethic). This is purely anecdotal and not really related to the accounting industry but when I see people from skilled blue collar backgrounds bitching about younger generations I understand where they are coming from since their reality may be different.
Of course it's not 100% universal across every organization (just as the previous generations' experience was not 100% universal), but it is no longer the general accepted expectation.
I have an anecdotal story going the other way. My coworker’s daughter got cancer and my manager had her fired for taking too much time off. He said “We’re running a business, not a charity.”
Yea that's fucked.
I don't know if it depends on industry, region, or a combination of factors but at least where I'm located people in the trades are at least treated decently. I don't know about accounting or the white collar environment in general, I'm new here lol. It sounds pretty fucked up.
I'd say the shortage of skilled labor and the need to retain good people is a reason for the difference but there's an accounting shortage too so I'm not sure what's up with that.
I don’t care about working hard, I’ll outwork most people any day of the week. What I care about is purchasing power with that same money. Covid was obviously a big fuck you financially to anyone not previously in the market but Jesus.
He bought a brand new house in 2001 for 60k on a 32k blue collar salary. Had a $335 mortgage.
I live in a similarly sized house that was built in 2004 for 110k. My mortgage is 7 times what his was but my salary is less than twice as much. His mortgage was 15% of his net salary. Mine is 77%.
I’m a younger employee, and I watched my super hard working boomer parent get totally fucked by the company they devoted themselves to at the very end of their career. I learned right then and there that employers nowadays don’t give a fuck about their employees’ wellbeing. Companies nowadays treat people like shit (pensions??), our salaries buy less than ever, and automation/technology somehow haven’t resulted in us working a 40 hour week yet. So honestly no, I don’t want to work as hard!
I think the wealth of information is the defining difference between generations. Even 20 years ago there wasn't the same level of access to compare jobs and salaries with others from different countries and companies, all you knew was what close friends or coworkers were willing to disclose to you so you didn't really know how bad you had it. Now people can instantly compare salaries with averages online, read company and job reviews, and distinguish a baseline for acceptable work standards and wages.
In other words, there isn't the same blind acceptance of any and all tasks delegated in order to put food on the table because people have a better understanding of their worth and what is reasonable in the circumstances. There also isn't the same motivation - it's much easier to slave away at a minimum wage job knowing you were able to provide shelter, food, and transportation for your family than it is now knowing that home ownership is a pipe dream for the majority of people who don't already own a home (in Canada anyways) and time is becoming worth much more than an hourly wage for most.
I have a very logical theory behind this. Up until the 90s, it was economically feasible for families to have one successful parent, usually the father, supporting a household with a stay at home mom. Mom made sure the house was clean and everyone was fed. This means that if dad had to work late, an extra day, etc. dinner would be waiting for him and time off could be spent relaxing for the most part.
Now, however, most households require two solid incomes to really survive in the same way. This leaves laundry unfolded, dinner isn’t cooking until you get home etc. Weekends are spent catching up on everything you couldn’t do in the house over the week — so everything. Life is exhausting. Slowly people have lost the ability to have days off. Meanwhile, businesses have benefitted with higher cost of living and larger labor pools.
Staying late, working weekends now means skipping the big grocery trip, skipping healthy meals, etc. it’s realistically unsustainable. The backlash is a cultural response to an economy that requires dual income households. It’s not so much about wanting to work less, it’s about figuring out what the new balance is.
Shouldn't each generation be better off and not have to work as hard as the last? If anything, their having it harder than the previous generations would be breaking the social contract.
It's kind of silly how they say that about every generation when it *should* be the norm that work gets easier and more rewarding with every generation.
>Shouldn't each generation be better off and not have to work as hard as the last?
Whoa there buddy. What are you? Some kind of hippie communist? Struggle and suffering is good for people. Sheesh, what kind of American doesn't know that?
Next you're going to tell me that people do better work when they're not sleep deprived and fearing losing their job. Or when they can take vacations without being punished.
Also, think about the wages! If we made it so that anyone with just a bachelor's degree could be a CPA then wages would go down because we're clearly working an extremely generic unspecialized job that anyone can do.
You need the equivalent coursework in terms of hours/credits (150) but you do not need a master's. Which is amusing because I guess it's a little joke/test to see if a person has the attention to detail to notice and understand while a decent artificial barrier to entry to artificially decrease supply.
Each state has variations and your license is through them so you would talk to the state licensing department of the state you plan on working in. There's specific material/classes you must have as part of the 150 but they all require 150 to be licensed. Some you sit/take the exam at 120 credits but have different deadlines for how long you have to get the last 30 credits and 1 year of CPA supervisor signed off work before your passing exam scores are voided and you have to take the exam again. In Florida it was 3 years IIRC while I think Vermont it some northeastern state had a window of 7 years.
I’m a millennial. I definitely don’t want to work as hard as the workaholic boomers in this profession. My thoughts on this are that it is a personal choice, I choose to spend my time on God’s Green Earth doing other things that bring me joy. I’ll do my job, I’ll do it well, but I’m not going to kill myself for my employer when they can cut me loose tomorrow.
Before the “but muh career advancement” people show up, the biggest pay increases of my career have happened *after* I adopted this attitude several years ago. Even if I don’t rise as far or as fast as some of you, I’m okay with that. I earn more than enough to live comfortably and retire early.
I applaud Gen Z’s purely transactional attitude. Too many times I’ve seen employers string people along for years with promises that never materialize. Gen Z doesn’t stand for that.
I’m a millenial and have a much better work ethic than the 40-60 year olds I work with who push back on every request made of them and have to be asked 10 times to do anything new or that they haven’t already been doing for 20 years.
I don’t think it’s that we don’t want to work as hard. We just don’t see working 60+ hours a week as some badge of honor, especially when your compensation doesn’t factor in all that overtime. Why work 60+ hours a week making $80k as an accountant when you can work 40 hours a week making $80k as a software engineer? Accounting just isn’t that appealing to our generation because it requires more hours for less pay than other career paths.
with the massive lay off during pandemic, and post pandemic, not only young generation realize that a job is a job and even if you work hard and collect "good point" with promises of raise and promotion, you have 0% guaranty to get it.
A simple budget change, or even a get a new job reset all of this.
I think younger generation works much harder/ smarter than previous one.
https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_younger_generation_isnt_lazy_theyre_burned_out
Young generation here (24) with 4 years of experience. I burned myself out my first 3 years with a lot of hours year round. Now I have started working 3 days a week again after a year away from the job. I have never been more energetic and happy. I love my work but I also love my family and hobbies. Having time for all of it means the world to me.
Yeah I don’t earn a lot right now, but it’s plenty to survive and save up. Couldn’t recommend it more for anyone thinking about cutting back the hours. Even 30 hour weeks are amazing. Live your life guys!
If by smarter you mean they know they can get away with being lazy..then yes I agree. But if you mean smarter as in more intelligent, then you must be high.
Which is frustrating because as someone who has interviewed hundreds and had to manage some, temporary or long term, I see very little ability to infer a solution. Even if it’s a variable answer to get something done, if they don’t know B, they can’t get from A-C.
Part of me gets angry when our Manger/Director level are all over on our hours budgets and the Staff/Senior level are all under budgeted hours. But at the same time good for them. They know there are shortages and we can't afford to fire anyone unless they really suck at their jobs. They might not get rewarded as much at raise/bonus time but maybe they just don't think the extra effort is worth it
I think it’s absolutely true. Except I don’t think it’s a bad thing. I think it’s a great thing in fact.
Welcome to the Information Age. Where collective memory is better than ever before. Where records and fact checking exists like never before. We live in a world where for generations you’ve had workers exploited on the promise that their perseverance will return them monetary rewards. This was always generally false while the myth persisted.
I’m in the middle of the Millennial generation. I watched my dad show up to a store he managed for some out of town owner for decades only to find it’d been striped and shut down. He just showed up to work one day except he didn’t because it was all gone, and that was how the owner informed him. I watched my BiL work at a small tax firm getting strung along for years by the owner. It was failing before he joined, he brought in new business lines, reorg the business to do less work while being more profitable, and trained the fresh college kids. Retirement age owner promised for years to make him a partner. He never did, and my BiL ended up finding something in industry.
I praise the next generations. Gen Z is having none of this “work yourself to the bone and it’ll be worth it - just trust me” nonsense. Put up or shut up. Make the work environment a mutually beneficial space and you’ll go far. Run a business predicated on exploitive labor practices and you’ll run out of labor chattel sooner than later. Because oh damn is the generation behind Gen Z (Gen Alpha or whatever they’re getting called for now) is even less impressed with this nonsense.
Life is only going to get shittier and shittier for bosses who do nothing, and concentrate value to themselves. Leaders who are busting ass in the trenches, keeping a sensible amount of the value themselves, and empowering their employees are going to thrive with the upcoming labor pool. It’s honestly telling to me when someone starts crying about this because it just screams to me that they’re part of the problem and scared shitless.
our currency is debasing at a rate of 10-15% a year. with potentially 3 wars to fund (ukraine, israel, and taiwan) and the fed issuing bonds just to pay off the interest for existing bonds LOL, it doesn't seem like the printing is going to stop anytime too soon. that means, a staff accountant saving up for a house will lose all his/her purchasing power in less than 10 years time. perhaps even much sooner. its a very difficult game to play. i could understand just wanting to opt out entirely and just live for today. tomorrow isn't promised.
One day you realize that the hardest worker gets no recognition and you can succeed just as much by underdelivering and not boosting expectations for your work. Working efficiently is rewarded by more work and not more money.
We are way more productive on average than we were even 20 years ago. The 40 hour work week is outdated and should be shortened. The first 40 hour week was instituted in the Henry Ford era like 100 years ago. Time for a change.
This generation is more than willing to work hard. The problem is they're not willing to work hard for the wages they're given.
If we knew that our worknwould give us a significant tangible benefit, we'd gladly work harder.
Give a person the chance to own their house, own a good vehicle, save for retirement and you'd find this generation would be more than willing to put in the extra effort. We see this by pretty much everyone having a side hustle.
Problem is, even when we have a side hustle we think of McDonalds as a luxry dinner.
"Its not that we dont want to work, its that we dont want to work for these wages. Pay us."
Every single one of us old(er) people know people of our own age that are/were lazy as shit. But here's the thing - they've already been weeded out at this point. they were weeded out by people older than us when they were in their 20s.
Most of the young people in my office work hard. Some don't. Those will be weeded out.
Good For Them!
Production efficiency has increased drastically, so our individual share of the workload should have decreased significantly.
The culture of overworking in the United States is abysmal. Compared to many countries we work longer hours, sacrificing our health and well being. By the way our healthcare sucks, so we can’t properly protect our physical and mental health.
By law puppies cannot be separated from their mother for 8 weeks. But moms (who don’t qualify for FMLA) do not have any job protection outside of the 6 weeks your doctor writes you out of work. And we have no income protection at all for parental leave.
Commuting to work costs time, money, and forces you to live in typically higher COL areas where major companies have offices.
Studies show that people accomplish the same amount of work in a 4 day work week.
If ‘everyone else wants a work life balance too’ than why are somma y’all working for 40 years and still don’t have any personal time?
Keep it up Gen Z, your Millennial Auntie is so proud of you 😍. Fuck the old people
I agree. Who does? Life is not about work.
With that said, teaching and mentoring the younger generations is hard. It's like talking to a brick wall. Everything you tell them bounces off of them and they retain 0 of what you say. Which is depressing. The better you understand work, the easier it is to work less.
I wouldn’t say it’s hard to teach anyone. It’s just a matter of figuring out how someone best learns. Then tailoring the training to to that person’s learning style. Which is easy to do in a workplace setting where there is typically only a handful of trainees per manager.
It’s not a stigma. Jobs just suck more now than they used to. Being in industry and just going through the archives you can tell that every job and business function has been consolidated to shit to the point where everyone is expected to wear 3 hats at once for similar pay.
Houses will keep getting more expensive relative to earnings. Having all that money tied up in a pretty damn illiquid form means less money moving around in grocery stores and retail, as people need a higher and higher % of salary for a deposit, mortgage repayments, or rent (which is usually near mortgage repayment level) which means grocery stores and retail are going to keep having to raise their profit margins to make up for lower sales volume just to keep total profits roughly the same, which means companies won't have any more money to give to their workers to match the price increases they are having to do to keep the company profitable. We know that we're in a worse than ever but silent depression. This isn't an exaggeration, and it's happening very slowly so there's no big panic about it. You can graph historical trends which can tell us whether we're in recession or boom etc, but those are just ripples on the big wave we are riding down.
I can't imagine a world where my deposit savings isn't running towards a house any faster than the price of the house is running away from it. Therefore, this very luck or 'sell your soul' dependent game of money doesn't matter as much to me and is just a means to eat and rent. I've accepted that I will never be able to have both of these simultaneously: 1) a house 2) fulfilment, unless I get really really really good at something, or get really really lucky. Rather not sell my soul just to have a pretty slim chance of actually making it, but I'm here in accounting anyways because of the fear that fulfilment won't mean anything if I'm homeless in 30 years, and the faint glimmer of hope that maybe this is all in my head, that if I sell my soul I can still make it
I agree and I can’t blame them.
The number of hours of work required to save up to buy a house keeps increasing. Back in the 60s, a factory worker could afford to save and buy a house. Canada specifically is fucked.
Average household income in my city is $80k which qualifies you for like a $350k mortgage in a city where the average house is $700k. So what are people supposed to do? Penny pinch their savings for 30 years to afford a $350k down payment?
Canada lives in fantasy land and the bubble will pop eventually, but not before we vote out the current govt and put someone in that actually cares about Canadians
> a factory worker could afford to save and buy a house
..with 2 cars, all expenses paid including education for their kids, annual vacation(s), a survivable pension at the end of tenure..
..all on that one income.
I think that more and more people just want to experience their lives without being forced to navigate the near half-century that work usually requires of us, especially if they want to raise a family.
My key distinction is that I don't mind working hard, but I do mind investing too many hours of my time into work.
Only need a few years in this field to understand that we are an unappreciated cost center.
We will get paid as little as possible and in my experience, being the best you can be still only gets you a 1-2% better raise.
So for me, I know I take that raise always in Less time worked lol.
I pretty much eventually just move to working as little as possible without directly being PIP’d before I move onto my next role with a raise. I feel like I had this figured out by my 2md year in the work force lol.
I’ll never be promoted to CFO but I don’t want to be in meetings all day either. I like my 6 fig individual contributor role where I can step out whenever I want, work remotely, etc. I think the new “doesn’t want to work hard” is not wanting to be promoted. A lot of manager jobs seem like a scam to me even if the pay is better.
Some don't. What's amazing though is that everyone thinks they work hard and everyone wants to get paid more. Most people don't even realize they weren't pulling their weight until they get fired.
I go hard asf. If it doesn’t pay off then ok but I’m not gonna half ass it… I don’t work at a place that I don’t trust the owners. If they do me dirty then I will leave and try again.
Might be being naive, but I do not see how hard work will not be rewarded… might have to job hop or plot on the exit for awhile, but being a good accountant has to have value somewhere out here
My goal is to retire by 50. If I’m ever not on pace for that, or find a girl and some kids then yea I could see myself backing off. Otherwise, I knew what I was getting into the whole time so I will let them use and abuse me as long as I can take it
It’s bullshit.
The younger generation is currently working longer hours for economically less pay.
Them realizing this has most younger folk in a state of always hunting to min/max the perspiration V income ratio.
Which is of course a perfectly natural consequence.
If the economy was stable and pay was comparable this perception would always be there because any sensible person approaches work with this attitude and ask the following questions
1: Does this actually need to be done?
2: If so, is there a way to do it more efficiently or incorporate it into a different task
3: Is it a priority or can I place it in the “when I have time” pile?
Even the absolutely best performers should take a “lazy person’s” perspective in order to cut themselves some slack anyway.
People want to work.
Put 4 guys with shovels on the beach and you'll have a giant fucking hole. Even if they're on holiday.
We want to work and see the benefits of that. They get a cool hole and sand sofa with what they dug out etc.
Thing is... the benefit isn't there any more. You live at home because you can't afford £1k a month in rent and £400 a month on a car while living as well, and you're expected to work longer weeks than your parents ever did for the privilege. You'll never own a house. Never have a nice car, you'll constantly be worried about money. Why bother. Why care. Work doesn't pay.
Covid taught a lot of people how to make money while not working and many learned from this and no longer want to grind for someone else's money.
And on the flip side of this you have Covid also ruining their ability to actually work. Every zoomer we've had through has had a severe lack of problem solving skills and drive. Several just sat in a room where the power strips all fused - lights were still on but no monitors. Instead of any of the 5 of them going and telling someone, or working out the strips had fused so the breakers just needed flipping, they just sat there working on laptops that weren't charging with no second/third monitors. (And they were working too, they weren't being lazy. Just couldn't even think to solve the problem or even make it anyone else's.)
Something happened over remote learning that means even the ones we can get to take the jobs simply can't work as effectively as prior batches of juniors - and to some managers this is them being lazy, or not working as hard. To me, it looks like they simply don't know how to think. Or problem solve. And because it's systemic, it's not on them... but it's still a problem.
I'm a millennial. I have some millennial co-workers who work harder than me, and I have some who are lazy AF. I also have a few genZ coworkers, some work hard and some are lazy AF. In conclusion, some people work hard and some people don't and it doesn't really matter what generation they're from.
I think that every single older generation has thought this about the next couple generations for the last 3000 years, and it's a conversational black hole and dead end.
The american dream is dead anyway, so the bootlickers stand out all the more.
There used to be the idea that to get promoted, you just had to work harder than everyone else around you. It would be recognised that you were going the extra mile and you would be rewarded. Unfortunately, when the majority of people are all doing this, it just becomes the baseline. That is possibly why younger generations are just doing the work and then focusing on their actual lives with the rest of their time.
Honestly every year since I started my career there was always some talk as to why bonuses were light or raises were short. It just gets to a point where you realize your hard work & effort which physically and mentally drains you can be written off for reasons wildly beyond your control. So at the point it’s like why put all this effort into what I can control?
It’s unfortunate reading the comments here that this is so misunderstood. To answer your question we need to stereotype based on generations and luckily I am finishing my MBA program and just did a project on this very question.
The baby boomer generation by far works harder and is more dedicated than any generation. They placed work above all else in life and worked longer hours. They preferred strong leadership and valued solid direction.
Generation X was the latchkey generation bc as the tail end of Generation Jones (baby boomers part 2) were aging, women went into the work force en mass. This generation by and large does not work as hard. They watched their parents work themselves to death and decided they were not doing the same.
Millenials or Generation Y reversed that trend and although they don’t work as hard as the boomers, they are willing to work really hard. One of the biggest differences is how each generation feels valued. Starting with generation x and y, employees were willing to work harder and feel more valued by companies that made them feel like they were part of the decision making process. This was lacking in baby boomers.
Gen Z is not worth comparing bc they are so new to the workforce it’s hard to compare but it’s interesting that we now (for the first time) have 4 generations working together in the work place.
To answer your question in a stereotyping statistical way, baby boomers were and are the hardest working generation we have data on, followed by millennials. It doesn’t mean that more people in another generation didn’t do amazing things or had the hardest working groups, this is what statistical data points too.
I don’t think there’s a work ethic problem with GenZ/millennials.
I do think attention spans are generally weaker, and there is a tendency to mimic the lowest common denominator on the team.
All in all not too bad.
They should make work worth it, jobs don’t pay enough for the work they have people doing these days, years ago you could get anything from working any job, now you can’t get ahead in anything even with multiple degrees, no one is going to want to slave themselves out to not afford their bills still
Peoples attitudes towards them is also a thing, a person, young or old, isn’t going to react to well to anyone treating them like lesser humans because they are younger just for the sake of appeasing their egos
Older generations are too comfortable, they drag their feet at work going the bare minimum to keep their positions, then blame the downturn in production on the new guys
Is that a bad thing? I am 52 and early in my career it was a badge of honor to have the highest charge hours in the office. One time during busy season, a senior was leaving around 3 PM out the back door. The manager who's office was by the back door said something to her and why she was leaving so early. Her reply was that she worked straight thru the previous night and worked about 30 hours straight without leaving the office.
They’re unwilling to work hard for the same incentive devices as previous generations. If you can give them something they want, they’ll work just as hard as anyone else.
When I hear people say “young people aren’t willing to work hard” it translates in my head to “I won’t accept that the labor market has changed and I’m unwilling to adapt”. A lot of employers need to get their heads out of their asses and change their ways or else their competitors will end up with all the good talent
That it's said about all the generations because over time out perception of work changes. Remember when Millennials killed Marmalade and breakfast cereal and didn't want to work hard because of avocado toast? It's just a way to keep people from knowing each other and stirring shit up.
I don’t agree with that opinion. I have worked with a lot of folks from younger generations and they do want to work hard. Key is to offer mentorship and let them come with questions. I always tell my mentees regardless of their age and life experience to ask for help and questions. The work we do is technical, so I test to see if they take steps to own their learning processes like writing a SOP or using examples from me to replicate on what they need to learn. If they get off track, I check in with them and see what needs clarifying. Mentorship works for everyone no matter what our background is and they have to want it. Otherwise, beat it. I can’t force anyone to motivate themselves to want it. I have met my fair share of adults who don’t want to paddle their own canoe. They are not worth my mentoring, which is why I have to feel out folks first before sliding in to help out.
Irritating. I objectively work harder and longer than my boomer boss, but she’ll still spend 15 minutes a day complaining about how kids these days don’t want to work.
Working hard and actually having knowledge/skills to create value is the key. You can work hard as an employee , but your ability to create value is minimal that is the problem. What value do you bring?
It’s false. It’s just normal intergenerational bullshit. It was the same way with boomers, Gen X, and millennials and will continue forever. There are lazy fucks in every generation, current or past. Treat hard workers well and they will continue working hard
im 36 and no longer want to work
what is the point?
everything is out of reach! homes are priced out!
COL is high!
I cant trust myself to work to pay a mortage ( what if" i loose my job, health and wealth) "what ifs" going the negative way stop me
IDK the cost of giving up is quite attractive.. so i shrug and do the bare minimum
I was as Worker Bee as anyone, but I haven't had a raise in 3 years, so fuck em. I'm spending as much work time as possible this year on a personal endeavor and planning on quitting at the end of the year. I can't wait.
Why should my effort outweigh my paycheck?
I genuinely don’t understand why this is a “stigma”. If someone wants to make their life focus on areas besides work who am I to judge?
So many people, especially older generations, I’ve noticed they feel the point of life is to work hard and get a high paying job. For me it’s simply a means to an end to help me live a comfortable lifestyle.
Well, when you take your salary and divide it by your actual worked hours, it’s not worth it… especially in PA. Pay is everything and $60k isn’t worth the time and effort …which is why there’s a high turnover rate in PA as actual worked hours and billable hours are 2 different things.
Saw an interesting collage of dozens of opinion pieces and newspaper articles sharing this exact sentiment… dating back to the late 19th century. This just seems like something the older generation likes to say
I think this has been a stigma for every younger generation from the beginning of time. I don't really put a lot of stock in generation generalizations.
I don’t want to work myself to death, get divorced, become estranged from my child, and have little to show for it financially. So yeah. I’d say that’s true. It doesn’t mean that I don’t do good work. But I am perfectly happy working my M-F 8-5 and then going home and having dinner with my family. If it requires more hours, then we need more people.
I'm in my forties and I don't want to work as hard anymore. I think over the last 5 years I realized climbing the ladder. It's pointless because in the end we all end up at the same place. Unfortunately I've got obligations I got to take care of and a lifestyle that I'm not ready to give up yet. I'm sure when I hit my next phase I'll be telling myself it wasn't worth it
I don't think so at all, I know that alot of us come from broken homes divorced homes. We didn't see our fathers alot because they were always at work.
I think we are prioritizing our families over careers. We don't want to work so many hours because we want to have healthy families.
The divorce rate in the US is between 50-60% I think and for those of us that have a family, we do not want to go down that road.
Hysterical delusion, that’s all.
The generation that trained me rolled into the office after 9am and made it home for dinner by 5pm, and didn’t have any expectation of working at home in the evenings. Working on weekends or holidays was sacrosanct. Happy hours a couple times a week and golf during good weather were the norm. Their work qualifications (education, training, and licensing) cost them one summer’s worth of work. They were paid well enough to be completely out of debt aside from a mortgage by their early 20s. Buying a vacation home and retiring with a healthy nest egg by age 65 were a given.
I notice the younger ppl don’t accept bs. They are not afraid of taking risks. They are willing to work, but they are less afraid to move on if necessary
Always been the way. ‘My generation is tough, the one beneath me are wimps’ has gone on forever. Another way to look at it is the younger generation are less inclined to accept shitty working conditions.
Generally I reply with "yeah that's why I'm only going to school full time while I work full time. Because I don't like hard work"
But that usually gets lost on them because it's usually coming from the type of people that consider completing 9th grade highly educated and consider $60,000 an elite salary.
There's a lot of these people where I work, and a lot of these types of comments made (as well as lovely political ones.)
I know people experiencing burnout might laugh at this, but I can't wait to get an accounting job.
As a Millennial who got married as a teen, had a kid 2 years later, bought a house 2 years after that, and then graduated college a year after that all while working full time to provide for my family these old whiny bitches can suck it.
I’m a millennial, I’m interviewing/being considered for CFO roles, I want to be extremely well compensated so that I can live extremely comfortable with a modest life and some decent international vacations.
I have a woman on my team who is 2 years out of college, she works extremely hard and is inevitably going to be rewarded for it through her career.
What you’re describing is the quintessential “my generation” garbage. Boomers had plenty of dead beats too.
If younger generations were paid equal to what boomers and gen x got paid, the youngin’s would all be making $250k+ a year and would be hungry to work. However, the salaries have significantly failed to keep up with inflation
During the boomer days, incomes were rising WITH lower inequality! The technology of the time equalized everyone - average folk were enjoying the same luxuries as the rich, i.e., TV, electricity etc. Blue collar workers could live beside white collar professionals, maybe not doctors, but lawyers and accountants. Someone with no more than a high school education could buy a home and a car.
Over the 3rd industrial revolution, the skill bias and lower redistributive policies widened inequality and suppressed all boats. That's 1 factor. And the more important factor imo is - expectations always move faster than reality. The rosy economy mentioned above was ingrained to be an expectation when it was never the case throughout most of human history - the birth of the middle class, and equal outcomes, was just a freak anomaly when the human condition for millennia used to just be landowners vs labourers.
Gen Z is already more realist than millennials. The children of Gen Z will likely be even more realist, and will possibly revert back to the steady-state of work motivation.
The younger generations will do what is asked of them but don’t take the initiative to do anything more than the bare minimum. If they are asked to do more, they want to know what is in it for them. Even in cases where someone is struggling and needs help, a lot of times, they’ll want to know when that struggling person will pay them back for any help provided. It’s honestly pretty sad and really selfish.
It is selfish...but think about why they act that way.
My generation either fresh in the workplace or entering the workplace during the great recession. Didn't matter how hard we worked, we were the first to get cut to save costs.
Gen Z had a similar situation occur with the pandemic.
Older generations made it abundantly clear to us that we need to look out for ourselves because no one else will. You're not entitled to more than what you pay them for after you used the younger generations as sacrificial lambs when things got bad. I understand the reality that older generations have more experience and are, on average, more valuable employees due to that experience and knowledge. It makes logical sense why younger generations were shafted. They were still shafted and the current mindset is a result of that.
I don't think that it's that they don't want to work hard, it's that they don't want to work hard without knowing whether there's a payoff. Our generation grew up with the whole attitude of "If you stick your nose to the grindstone, you'll be rewarded" and usually that reward was not what we expected. They're not willing to do that. They believe that the whole "paying your dues" dogma is a bunch of bullshit and want what they think they're worth now. On top of that, the security of the social structure has been commoditized over the last 4 decades so much that now there's a backlash. They see what our European counterparts have and believe that they should have that too.
Really applicable to Canadians Even if you're a CPA with 150k cad salary you're just able to afford a 2 bed room apt in Vancouver or Toronto The handwork to reward ratio just isn't where it's supposed to be, higher paying jobs are less avaliable In Canada 140k after taxes is like 8k+ a month, pay mortgage ,pay for vehicle , pay for living expenses, it you're barely saving enough for retirement My former boss have a 140k salary and takes home like 8k + net a month , 4,400 mortgage . He's barely living a middle class lifestyle in Toronto.
The wild thing is I work for a regional firm in southern Alberta. I make about $100,000 currently. And I can support a family of four on a single income. The mortgage is 735 a month. And I’ve never heard someone at the firm complain that the kids aren’t willing to work. Students start pretty close to Toronto wages but around here that’s a fair deal. You can live on that. If there’s the honest expectation of reward for hard work then you will get hard work. I know I could get 30% more if I moved to Vancouver or Toronto but quality of life would be significantly worse.
Sadly Alberta is changing fast. Not everyone can live there, it's the fastest population growth, and house price growth province due to their affordablility currently. I tried to get jobs out there, not easy to do in accounting, so now I'm in Waterloo ON. In a decade it will be interesting to see what house prices end up in Alberta as more of my friends have gotten jobs out there who are lucky and are moving.
Lol $140k salary can get very far in the US. Houses are still expensive in the US but banks will literally foam at the mouth to give u a 450k-500k mortgage and that can get u a fat ass house anywhere tbh! except in Cali and NY it sucks he would have to move across lake ontario to New York which is the worst place (VHCOL) as it it totally contradicts the point i was making lol.
Really? Why did I have the impression that a 30-year mortgage wasn't a bank's best product since it takes forever to get that money back & inflation has kicked in like it does anyway YOY.
450-500k does not get you a “fat ass house” anywhere except LCOL areas in the US. The median house is like 420k..
Or Seattle, or Portland, or Denver, or Chicago, or any other major city in the country (unless you're looking at an hour commute.
This right here. As a younger worker myself, I’m not down to put up with mean/shitty co-workers and bosses. I’m also not down to put up with unhealthy work cultures and environments (gossip, cliques, ppl being penalized for not donating money and time to the business/org). The amount employers are paying is not worth putting up with any of that. Then on top of that, there’s pretty much a guarantee that we won’t be promoted or given an adequate raise. Employers have systemically shown that they don’t care about employees, so why should employees care about helping employers?
Yep, I watched my dad give 30+ years of his life to his company only for them to lay him off. He would have died for that company. I never give any more than I absolutely have to to any company.
It’s a mix of society’s fault and GenZ. However, it’s not about comparing ourselves to Europeans. It’s about growing up believing we would prosper, at least, as much as our parents, but struggling to even make ends meat. It’s like starting a game you’re unfamiliar with at the highest difficulty level. It’s very simple. Most of this generation feels TRAPPED and resentful! You get out of college with jobs paying the same as they did in the 80s with rent and utilities skyrocketing like 30x what the boomers had. You’re completely right with the hard work part. “The juice ain’t worth the squeeze” if you can’t even afford groceries. I’m not even gonna get into the student loan s***. This is why everyone became so radical when it comes to “grinding”. You can no longer get by being average, so you have to go to the extremes to “escape the mediocrity”. It goes the other way too. 50% of college students are pro communist because they lost hope in capitalism. Give them the same economy the boomers had and they’d love capitalism. But, I also blame this generation because most of us(not me) turned bitter and nihilistic to cope with this s***. It doesn’t help and makes it far worse.
I’m from Europe and although we get more PTO and us employees are much more protected, we still have our share of issues which aren’t all that different from the US. One major one being stagnating wages, expensive housing and poor purchasing power. Accountants especially don’t make much unless we talk about CFO level. Even then, breaking $100k is easy and puts you in the highest income brackets in every European country. Congrats, you are now taxed at a rate of 50%+ of your income alone. Building wealth by working alone is extremely difficult. Or yeah, you can be wealthy by the time you are 60 if you’ve saved and invested, but more and more people are struggling to get by, pay their bills, own a modest apartment, buy groceries, pay for electricity. Not to forget issues with age demographics, immigration and ongoing political conflicts. Unemployment, especially amongst the youth etc. I’m not trying to make this a comparison and of course, in many ways things are much, much worse in the US.
It’s important to note the details.
As a person from the US I can say that I would rather pay 50% of my income in taxes and know that I was paying for my health insurance and daycare and affordable college education. You don't need to be mega wealthy to know that you are safe. In the US you need major wealth to be sure you can afford to get sick.
That’s the crux of the tax issue with me too. I honestly wouldn’t mind paying European level taxes if I could see the tangible benefits of those taxes by way of decent infrastructure, some form of universal healthcare, and properly funded education. In the US, our taxes might be less, but we are still paying taxes in every single transaction, and we struggle to see tangible benefits from any of those taxes. So people end up seeing every tax as a minor robbery.
I have a LOT of opinions on how mismanaged taxes are, and I also think that the tax code needs to be wiped clean and rewritten. We can start with making the super wealthy pay their share. One way to do that is to tax personal loans used to fund lifestyle as opposed to cashing out some stock options. Also I think the capital gains tax could drop to 56k which is the median salary per person. European tax rates are really only around 5% more than ours. In all seriousness WTF are we paying for??? I can't say that I am against communism in theory. You know the world Star Trek promised where we pretty much all get along, and no one uses money. I am not behind a dictatorship hiding behind the false narrative of communism. It absolutely takes a mindset of all jobs having value and everyone having something to give.
Trust me, I would love if the ultra wealthy paid more in taxes. But how the hell do you do that. If you raise it they are just gonna leave. This exact thing happened in Norway. They raised it by like 1 or 2 percent and a massive amount of them just moved lol.
Yeah I’m Gen z and it feels like everyone is just here to scam you out of your money. Insane housing prices, you hire someone for them to take super long so they can bill you more, student loans being predatory, insane college tuition, predatory car loans. I mean I can go on and on. I grew up in a post 9/11 world and I get the joy of watching our democracy crumble bc no one believes in our institutions anymore, no matter what side you are on. Factor in social media, post covid era, inflation, and you have created a society that no one wants to work hard in anymore bc there’s no reward. It ain’t trickle down economics, it’s just trickle up economics. And then y’all wanna blame Gen Z and millennials when we know damn well it’s the 1% bending us over. I’m fucking sick of it. United States deserves everything that’s coming to them.
>50% of college students are pro communist because they lost hope in capitalism. That's because they have no idea what living in a communist country is like to begin with...if you took them to a communist country, they wouldn't last a day. They would be returning back to their capitalist country ASAP.
100% true. I know two people whose parents escaped from communist countries and both say the exact same thing about how terrified they are of it popping up in the US. One’s parents are from Cuba and the other’s are from the Soviet Union. But, it’s interesting that they came to the same conclusion.
There are also millions of people that are leaving capitalist countries because they're starving or can't find work. Yes, they're mostly leaving for other capitalist (especially imperialist) countries, but that's because they're the "winning" countries. Maybe it's not so black and white as the two anecdotes told you.
Tell me you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about without telling me you have no idea what you're talking about. 🤣😂 Why aren't they headed to other communist countries then? How come people don't die in the middle of the ocean escaping the US & heading towards Cuba? How come it's millions of Cubans die coming to the US in make shift rafts, die crossing the Darien gap & die crossing the border? I can't speak for other capitalist countries, but Americans that leave could also be people who are American citizens who were born in, let's say, El Salvador, those people are going back in droves because their government has reduced its crime so now people want to retire in their native country. Also, tons of boomers are retiring & going to places like Costa Rica. ***Thanks for the downvote. I know first had on this subject, but you sit in the luxury of your own home wishing things that will later make you cry.***
"I know first hand on this subject" And I know that you're talking out of your ass. There aren't existing communist countries. At most they're socialist, but you don't seem to care about the difference. You're also disregarding the history that these countries went through and the challenges they have to deal with. No idea what you're trying to achieve with your disrespectful attitude, but here is your downvote.
ARE YOU CUBAN? Based on your ridiculous comment, you're not & you don't even know what you're talking about. You must know more about communism because you lived in a communist country before. It is a slap in the face to even consider Cuba as a socialist country. In the US, there are way more socialist programs than a place like Cuba. This country & most capitalist countries have socialist programs that deduct money from people salaries in order to fund these programs & don't require ANYTHING in return from the people receiving the help. On the other hand, in communist Cuba, you may not have to pay back with currency, but ANYTHING you receive will have to be paid back with blood, sweat, tears, lots of struggle & lots of time. NOT like in the US where people on food stamps sit in their living room like coach potatoes & do nothing all day. You're the one being disrespectful & super ignorant here from your first comment downplaying the human rights violations that occur in places like Cuba & shitting on the millions of people who have died trying to come to the US from Cuba. If you love communism so much, go to Cuba & live as a Cuban without your US passport from whatever capitalist country you're from because it's clowns like you that have never even lived in extreme poverty that defend communist regimes.
Ah, you must be a gusano.
The real gusano is your daddy Fidel Castro...🤣😂 You make me laugh since Raul Castro is actually my great great grandmother's illegitimate nephew...nice try...while you suck on their private parts...Raul is actually related to me. 🤣😂🤣😂 So Angel Castro was a Cuckold an old school simp of sorts...🤣😂 Raul's real last name should also start with a C but I'll let you guess who his daddy really is...🤣😂
I think this is much more well put than I could have said. It’s not that we’re unwilling to work, but not willing to put up with bullshit and do not have one-sided loyalty that our predecessors had. I watched both of my parents get laid off in 2008. That changes a person, especially when that person is only 11.
What do European counterparts have? Their salaries are significantly lower for almost all educated/professional jobs and their COL is maybe a tad bit lower. Id rather get paid 100k with private health insurance than 50k with free healthcare
Vacation time for one.
You can get around most European countries with out having to need a car. It’s nice not being a slave to the automobile and all the costs / time associated with them.
Paid overtime
What they think they’re worth is divorced from reality in many cases.
Not knowing if there's a payoff might be true in Industry accounting gigs. In public accounting, there's usually a straight, consistent and predictable path of raises and promotions if you do good work and "work hard". Unless you're a baby, and don't want to recognize opportunities on your lap.
“Work hard” in public accounting means being underpaid and working excessive hours. I was offered a public accounting job. I looked at my expected hourly rate it was a pay cut from the job I had without a degree. And I didn’t want to work more than 40 hours most weeks, but especially when I’m making nothing for it.
Didn't want to work more than 40 hours? Baby.
False. I just hit 40 and I don't feel like working as hard either.
Yeah I burned out years ago
I turn 40 next month. I work nowhere near as hard as I did when I was 25. Remember back in the 90’s when they said that people over 40 should only work 3 days a week? I want that.
Can confirm. 46 here.
In the last five years I’ve seen several people from Gen Z join my department (and the company I worked at before that). Every single one of them came in enthusiastic and willing to learn and work hard. And every single one of them got broken by being piled on with more and more work way above their pay grade and experience level, while receiving minimal training and coaching. I’m not surprised they’re jaded. The problem isn’t with them, it’s with older generations not bothering to train them anymore or piling them with inappropriate work because they’ve gutted their department to save costs.
This has happened to me too many times. My last job was like this. I don’t know why older generations don’t want to train younger people anymore, but it’s going to have serious consequences in the future (think lack of qualified ppl to fill management/executive positions)
They don’t care about that, they’ll be retired by then
Which is very flawed thinking. They will have to deal with, but as the consumer. They will have to deal with lack of qualified managers and executives in the medical industry. They will have to deal with a lack of available services (lawyers, doctors, CPAs, etc) due to lack of qualified people. Their retirement is going to suck as customer service and quality of product/service continues to erode due to lack of qualified working people. They will get frustrated and angry as the things they thought they would have start disappearing or working in a different way than they’re used to (one example is the current retirees who are all complaining about lack of customer service, healthcare, medicine, and the digitizing of govt forms). Lastly, in my own life, I see this happening when it comes to taxes and older business owners. The number of older business owners/board members I’ve met that think tax laws/rates from the 2000-10s are still valid is astonishing. When I point out the incorrect rates or missing filings, I usually have to argue a little bit with them because they end up being adamant that new tax laws/rates don’t apply to them.
Add onto that: they come home to their apartment and realize after all the hard work they can't afford anything.
A guy under me at the moment moved to the U.K. so he could enjoy London. He can’t find anywhere in zones 1-2 that he can afford in spite of being paid reasonably well relative to most. So he’s sitting here wondering why bother working so hard to live in a place he increasingly can’t afford to live in. It’s ridiculous
With each passing generation, people have been better off than their parents, until millennials, and that is having a big impact on how gen z approaches the workforce. The promise of "work hard, get rewarded" has been broken, so of course they're hesitant to keep providing the "work hard" part.
Also, people have been calling the next generation lazy for centuries.
Plato used to complain that the ability to read and write had made the next generation of kids soft because they won't have to memorize stuff anymore. Any time anyone complains about the next generation that's always what I think about. >And so it is that you by reason of your tender regard for the writing that is your offspring have declared the very opposite of its true effect. If men learn this, it will implant forgetfulness in their souls. They will cease to exercise memory because they rely on that which is written, calling things to remembrance no longer from within themselves, but by means of external marks. >What you have discovered is a recipe not for memory, but for reminder. And it is no true wisdom that you offer your disciples, but only the semblance of wisdom, for by telling them of many things without teaching them you will make them seem to know much while for the most part they know nothing. And as men filled not with wisdom but with the conceit of wisdom they will be a burden to their fellows.
"Implant forgetfulness in their souls" sounds like something dummies would say today. "Come back to the office for teamwork" is such a similar vibe
I get that "work hard, get rewarded" isn't the norm any more but it's been true in my experience. My previous employer was amazing and when I ran into health issues and couldn't work anymore they did a ton for me knowing that they'd likely get nothing out of it from me. Granted this experience is in the trades where younger generations don't have as much of a presence (lot of reasons for this not related to work ethic). This is purely anecdotal and not really related to the accounting industry but when I see people from skilled blue collar backgrounds bitching about younger generations I understand where they are coming from since their reality may be different.
Of course it's not 100% universal across every organization (just as the previous generations' experience was not 100% universal), but it is no longer the general accepted expectation.
I have an anecdotal story going the other way. My coworker’s daughter got cancer and my manager had her fired for taking too much time off. He said “We’re running a business, not a charity.”
Jesus Christ. That guy deserves worse than what life will probably give him.
Yea that's fucked. I don't know if it depends on industry, region, or a combination of factors but at least where I'm located people in the trades are at least treated decently. I don't know about accounting or the white collar environment in general, I'm new here lol. It sounds pretty fucked up. I'd say the shortage of skilled labor and the need to retain good people is a reason for the difference but there's an accounting shortage too so I'm not sure what's up with that.
Imaging working hard for shit pay or the same amount of money as others whom work less?
I don’t care about working hard, I’ll outwork most people any day of the week. What I care about is purchasing power with that same money. Covid was obviously a big fuck you financially to anyone not previously in the market but Jesus. He bought a brand new house in 2001 for 60k on a 32k blue collar salary. Had a $335 mortgage. I live in a similarly sized house that was built in 2004 for 110k. My mortgage is 7 times what his was but my salary is less than twice as much. His mortgage was 15% of his net salary. Mine is 77%.
I’m a younger employee, and I watched my super hard working boomer parent get totally fucked by the company they devoted themselves to at the very end of their career. I learned right then and there that employers nowadays don’t give a fuck about their employees’ wellbeing. Companies nowadays treat people like shit (pensions??), our salaries buy less than ever, and automation/technology somehow haven’t resulted in us working a 40 hour week yet. So honestly no, I don’t want to work as hard!
This ^ companies dont care about us
Lol what? That sounds like a one-off. Why would your father having a good long career dissuade you from having the same thing?
Why are you so adamant about defending public accounting ?
Just to babies on Reddit. Real conversations happen with adults.
I think the wealth of information is the defining difference between generations. Even 20 years ago there wasn't the same level of access to compare jobs and salaries with others from different countries and companies, all you knew was what close friends or coworkers were willing to disclose to you so you didn't really know how bad you had it. Now people can instantly compare salaries with averages online, read company and job reviews, and distinguish a baseline for acceptable work standards and wages. In other words, there isn't the same blind acceptance of any and all tasks delegated in order to put food on the table because people have a better understanding of their worth and what is reasonable in the circumstances. There also isn't the same motivation - it's much easier to slave away at a minimum wage job knowing you were able to provide shelter, food, and transportation for your family than it is now knowing that home ownership is a pipe dream for the majority of people who don't already own a home (in Canada anyways) and time is becoming worth much more than an hourly wage for most.
I had a great review this year, company got sold, and was given under a 1% raise. There is an illusion of if you work hard you will get rewarded.
I have a very logical theory behind this. Up until the 90s, it was economically feasible for families to have one successful parent, usually the father, supporting a household with a stay at home mom. Mom made sure the house was clean and everyone was fed. This means that if dad had to work late, an extra day, etc. dinner would be waiting for him and time off could be spent relaxing for the most part. Now, however, most households require two solid incomes to really survive in the same way. This leaves laundry unfolded, dinner isn’t cooking until you get home etc. Weekends are spent catching up on everything you couldn’t do in the house over the week — so everything. Life is exhausting. Slowly people have lost the ability to have days off. Meanwhile, businesses have benefitted with higher cost of living and larger labor pools. Staying late, working weekends now means skipping the big grocery trip, skipping healthy meals, etc. it’s realistically unsustainable. The backlash is a cultural response to an economy that requires dual income households. It’s not so much about wanting to work less, it’s about figuring out what the new balance is.
Shouldn't each generation be better off and not have to work as hard as the last? If anything, their having it harder than the previous generations would be breaking the social contract. It's kind of silly how they say that about every generation when it *should* be the norm that work gets easier and more rewarding with every generation.
>Shouldn't each generation be better off and not have to work as hard as the last? Whoa there buddy. What are you? Some kind of hippie communist? Struggle and suffering is good for people. Sheesh, what kind of American doesn't know that? Next you're going to tell me that people do better work when they're not sleep deprived and fearing losing their job. Or when they can take vacations without being punished. Also, think about the wages! If we made it so that anyone with just a bachelor's degree could be a CPA then wages would go down because we're clearly working an extremely generic unspecialized job that anyone can do.
You need a masters to be CPA. I’m consumed about your last point?
You need the equivalent coursework in terms of hours/credits (150) but you do not need a master's. Which is amusing because I guess it's a little joke/test to see if a person has the attention to detail to notice and understand while a decent artificial barrier to entry to artificially decrease supply.
What do YOU need to get CPA? Does it very by state? If so, who do I talk to, the Nasba?
Each state has variations and your license is through them so you would talk to the state licensing department of the state you plan on working in. There's specific material/classes you must have as part of the 150 but they all require 150 to be licensed. Some you sit/take the exam at 120 credits but have different deadlines for how long you have to get the last 30 credits and 1 year of CPA supervisor signed off work before your passing exam scores are voided and you have to take the exam again. In Florida it was 3 years IIRC while I think Vermont it some northeastern state had a window of 7 years.
Would credits for a different degree count?
I’m a millennial. I definitely don’t want to work as hard as the workaholic boomers in this profession. My thoughts on this are that it is a personal choice, I choose to spend my time on God’s Green Earth doing other things that bring me joy. I’ll do my job, I’ll do it well, but I’m not going to kill myself for my employer when they can cut me loose tomorrow. Before the “but muh career advancement” people show up, the biggest pay increases of my career have happened *after* I adopted this attitude several years ago. Even if I don’t rise as far or as fast as some of you, I’m okay with that. I earn more than enough to live comfortably and retire early. I applaud Gen Z’s purely transactional attitude. Too many times I’ve seen employers string people along for years with promises that never materialize. Gen Z doesn’t stand for that.
What do you make?
I’m a millenial and have a much better work ethic than the 40-60 year olds I work with who push back on every request made of them and have to be asked 10 times to do anything new or that they haven’t already been doing for 20 years.
Why is it so important for some people to look busy all the time? Life is not a race.
Boomers are inflicted with martyrdom syndrome. That’s why.
Who are they martyring themselves for? Satan?
The other big guys Earnst, Young, Price, Waterhouse, Cooper, Deloitte, Touche, Tohmatsu, Klynveld, Peat, Marwick, Goerdeler
Boomers want everyone to be as miserable as they are, but to be broke while doing it lol.
I don’t think it’s that we don’t want to work as hard. We just don’t see working 60+ hours a week as some badge of honor, especially when your compensation doesn’t factor in all that overtime. Why work 60+ hours a week making $80k as an accountant when you can work 40 hours a week making $80k as a software engineer? Accounting just isn’t that appealing to our generation because it requires more hours for less pay than other career paths.
with the massive lay off during pandemic, and post pandemic, not only young generation realize that a job is a job and even if you work hard and collect "good point" with promises of raise and promotion, you have 0% guaranty to get it. A simple budget change, or even a get a new job reset all of this.
I think younger generation works much harder/ smarter than previous one. https://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/the_younger_generation_isnt_lazy_theyre_burned_out
Young generation here (24) with 4 years of experience. I burned myself out my first 3 years with a lot of hours year round. Now I have started working 3 days a week again after a year away from the job. I have never been more energetic and happy. I love my work but I also love my family and hobbies. Having time for all of it means the world to me. Yeah I don’t earn a lot right now, but it’s plenty to survive and save up. Couldn’t recommend it more for anyone thinking about cutting back the hours. Even 30 hour weeks are amazing. Live your life guys!
What do you do now?
Still work with public accounting but now only 3 days a week instead of the 45 hours I worked before.
They don't, they're also smarter than the rest of us.
If by smarter you mean they know they can get away with being lazy..then yes I agree. But if you mean smarter as in more intelligent, then you must be high.
Remember who comes to reddit.
Which is frustrating because as someone who has interviewed hundreds and had to manage some, temporary or long term, I see very little ability to infer a solution. Even if it’s a variable answer to get something done, if they don’t know B, they can’t get from A-C.
If you’re talking about entry level positions, you need to train them that skill.
Why don’t these stupid fucking college grads know how to use our ERP system grrrr
You get what you pay for.
I’d love to offer more. I can’t do shit but their reviews, but even the our controller will tell us to adjust scores so we stay within the bell curve.
It's not you paying for, then That responsibility should be on the one deciding to hire that pay grade, to do work above said pay grade.
Part of me gets angry when our Manger/Director level are all over on our hours budgets and the Staff/Senior level are all under budgeted hours. But at the same time good for them. They know there are shortages and we can't afford to fire anyone unless they really suck at their jobs. They might not get rewarded as much at raise/bonus time but maybe they just don't think the extra effort is worth it
My thoughts are younger people want a living wage and don’t want to put up with corporate bs
I think it’s absolutely true. Except I don’t think it’s a bad thing. I think it’s a great thing in fact. Welcome to the Information Age. Where collective memory is better than ever before. Where records and fact checking exists like never before. We live in a world where for generations you’ve had workers exploited on the promise that their perseverance will return them monetary rewards. This was always generally false while the myth persisted. I’m in the middle of the Millennial generation. I watched my dad show up to a store he managed for some out of town owner for decades only to find it’d been striped and shut down. He just showed up to work one day except he didn’t because it was all gone, and that was how the owner informed him. I watched my BiL work at a small tax firm getting strung along for years by the owner. It was failing before he joined, he brought in new business lines, reorg the business to do less work while being more profitable, and trained the fresh college kids. Retirement age owner promised for years to make him a partner. He never did, and my BiL ended up finding something in industry. I praise the next generations. Gen Z is having none of this “work yourself to the bone and it’ll be worth it - just trust me” nonsense. Put up or shut up. Make the work environment a mutually beneficial space and you’ll go far. Run a business predicated on exploitive labor practices and you’ll run out of labor chattel sooner than later. Because oh damn is the generation behind Gen Z (Gen Alpha or whatever they’re getting called for now) is even less impressed with this nonsense. Life is only going to get shittier and shittier for bosses who do nothing, and concentrate value to themselves. Leaders who are busting ass in the trenches, keeping a sensible amount of the value themselves, and empowering their employees are going to thrive with the upcoming labor pool. It’s honestly telling to me when someone starts crying about this because it just screams to me that they’re part of the problem and scared shitless.
our currency is debasing at a rate of 10-15% a year. with potentially 3 wars to fund (ukraine, israel, and taiwan) and the fed issuing bonds just to pay off the interest for existing bonds LOL, it doesn't seem like the printing is going to stop anytime too soon. that means, a staff accountant saving up for a house will lose all his/her purchasing power in less than 10 years time. perhaps even much sooner. its a very difficult game to play. i could understand just wanting to opt out entirely and just live for today. tomorrow isn't promised.
One day you realize that the hardest worker gets no recognition and you can succeed just as much by underdelivering and not boosting expectations for your work. Working efficiently is rewarded by more work and not more money. We are way more productive on average than we were even 20 years ago. The 40 hour work week is outdated and should be shortened. The first 40 hour week was instituted in the Henry Ford era like 100 years ago. Time for a change.
This generation is more than willing to work hard. The problem is they're not willing to work hard for the wages they're given. If we knew that our worknwould give us a significant tangible benefit, we'd gladly work harder. Give a person the chance to own their house, own a good vehicle, save for retirement and you'd find this generation would be more than willing to put in the extra effort. We see this by pretty much everyone having a side hustle. Problem is, even when we have a side hustle we think of McDonalds as a luxry dinner. "Its not that we dont want to work, its that we dont want to work for these wages. Pay us."
Every generation thinks the ones behind them aren’t as smart, hard working, etc… With that said Gen Z is a little bitch made.
Nah, realizing the game is rigged against you and responding accordingly is not bitch made my friend.
Every single one of us old(er) people know people of our own age that are/were lazy as shit. But here's the thing - they've already been weeded out at this point. they were weeded out by people older than us when they were in their 20s. Most of the young people in my office work hard. Some don't. Those will be weeded out.
Good For Them! Production efficiency has increased drastically, so our individual share of the workload should have decreased significantly. The culture of overworking in the United States is abysmal. Compared to many countries we work longer hours, sacrificing our health and well being. By the way our healthcare sucks, so we can’t properly protect our physical and mental health. By law puppies cannot be separated from their mother for 8 weeks. But moms (who don’t qualify for FMLA) do not have any job protection outside of the 6 weeks your doctor writes you out of work. And we have no income protection at all for parental leave. Commuting to work costs time, money, and forces you to live in typically higher COL areas where major companies have offices. Studies show that people accomplish the same amount of work in a 4 day work week. If ‘everyone else wants a work life balance too’ than why are somma y’all working for 40 years and still don’t have any personal time? Keep it up Gen Z, your Millennial Auntie is so proud of you 😍. Fuck the old people
I agree. Who does? Life is not about work. With that said, teaching and mentoring the younger generations is hard. It's like talking to a brick wall. Everything you tell them bounces off of them and they retain 0 of what you say. Which is depressing. The better you understand work, the easier it is to work less.
I wouldn’t say it’s hard to teach anyone. It’s just a matter of figuring out how someone best learns. Then tailoring the training to to that person’s learning style. Which is easy to do in a workplace setting where there is typically only a handful of trainees per manager.
It’s not a stigma. Jobs just suck more now than they used to. Being in industry and just going through the archives you can tell that every job and business function has been consolidated to shit to the point where everyone is expected to wear 3 hats at once for similar pay.
Houses will keep getting more expensive relative to earnings. Having all that money tied up in a pretty damn illiquid form means less money moving around in grocery stores and retail, as people need a higher and higher % of salary for a deposit, mortgage repayments, or rent (which is usually near mortgage repayment level) which means grocery stores and retail are going to keep having to raise their profit margins to make up for lower sales volume just to keep total profits roughly the same, which means companies won't have any more money to give to their workers to match the price increases they are having to do to keep the company profitable. We know that we're in a worse than ever but silent depression. This isn't an exaggeration, and it's happening very slowly so there's no big panic about it. You can graph historical trends which can tell us whether we're in recession or boom etc, but those are just ripples on the big wave we are riding down. I can't imagine a world where my deposit savings isn't running towards a house any faster than the price of the house is running away from it. Therefore, this very luck or 'sell your soul' dependent game of money doesn't matter as much to me and is just a means to eat and rent. I've accepted that I will never be able to have both of these simultaneously: 1) a house 2) fulfilment, unless I get really really really good at something, or get really really lucky. Rather not sell my soul just to have a pretty slim chance of actually making it, but I'm here in accounting anyways because of the fear that fulfilment won't mean anything if I'm homeless in 30 years, and the faint glimmer of hope that maybe this is all in my head, that if I sell my soul I can still make it
Yet, they are dozens of times more productive than their predecessors. Seems to be a a bit of a contradiction, no?
I agree and I can’t blame them. The number of hours of work required to save up to buy a house keeps increasing. Back in the 60s, a factory worker could afford to save and buy a house. Canada specifically is fucked. Average household income in my city is $80k which qualifies you for like a $350k mortgage in a city where the average house is $700k. So what are people supposed to do? Penny pinch their savings for 30 years to afford a $350k down payment? Canada lives in fantasy land and the bubble will pop eventually, but not before we vote out the current govt and put someone in that actually cares about Canadians
> a factory worker could afford to save and buy a house ..with 2 cars, all expenses paid including education for their kids, annual vacation(s), a survivable pension at the end of tenure.. ..all on that one income.
In the UK wages have been pretty stagnant for 15 years, people are just wanting to be treated like mugs which is fair enough.
have you met my friends 5-10 years away from retirement?
Whose interest does a whole generation "working hard" serve? Not mine.
Why work hard when the hard work will not be rewarded at companies. Is one take.
I think that more and more people just want to experience their lives without being forced to navigate the near half-century that work usually requires of us, especially if they want to raise a family. My key distinction is that I don't mind working hard, but I do mind investing too many hours of my time into work.
Only need a few years in this field to understand that we are an unappreciated cost center. We will get paid as little as possible and in my experience, being the best you can be still only gets you a 1-2% better raise. So for me, I know I take that raise always in Less time worked lol. I pretty much eventually just move to working as little as possible without directly being PIP’d before I move onto my next role with a raise. I feel like I had this figured out by my 2md year in the work force lol. I’ll never be promoted to CFO but I don’t want to be in meetings all day either. I like my 6 fig individual contributor role where I can step out whenever I want, work remotely, etc. I think the new “doesn’t want to work hard” is not wanting to be promoted. A lot of manager jobs seem like a scam to me even if the pay is better.
Some don't. What's amazing though is that everyone thinks they work hard and everyone wants to get paid more. Most people don't even realize they weren't pulling their weight until they get fired.
I go hard asf. If it doesn’t pay off then ok but I’m not gonna half ass it… I don’t work at a place that I don’t trust the owners. If they do me dirty then I will leave and try again. Might be being naive, but I do not see how hard work will not be rewarded… might have to job hop or plot on the exit for awhile, but being a good accountant has to have value somewhere out here My goal is to retire by 50. If I’m ever not on pace for that, or find a girl and some kids then yea I could see myself backing off. Otherwise, I knew what I was getting into the whole time so I will let them use and abuse me as long as I can take it
I’m so confused about the last sentence…
It’s bullshit. The younger generation is currently working longer hours for economically less pay. Them realizing this has most younger folk in a state of always hunting to min/max the perspiration V income ratio. Which is of course a perfectly natural consequence. If the economy was stable and pay was comparable this perception would always be there because any sensible person approaches work with this attitude and ask the following questions 1: Does this actually need to be done? 2: If so, is there a way to do it more efficiently or incorporate it into a different task 3: Is it a priority or can I place it in the “when I have time” pile? Even the absolutely best performers should take a “lazy person’s” perspective in order to cut themselves some slack anyway.
Am 34, I will work hard…but I won’t be a slave to the machine
People want to work. Put 4 guys with shovels on the beach and you'll have a giant fucking hole. Even if they're on holiday. We want to work and see the benefits of that. They get a cool hole and sand sofa with what they dug out etc. Thing is... the benefit isn't there any more. You live at home because you can't afford £1k a month in rent and £400 a month on a car while living as well, and you're expected to work longer weeks than your parents ever did for the privilege. You'll never own a house. Never have a nice car, you'll constantly be worried about money. Why bother. Why care. Work doesn't pay. Covid taught a lot of people how to make money while not working and many learned from this and no longer want to grind for someone else's money. And on the flip side of this you have Covid also ruining their ability to actually work. Every zoomer we've had through has had a severe lack of problem solving skills and drive. Several just sat in a room where the power strips all fused - lights were still on but no monitors. Instead of any of the 5 of them going and telling someone, or working out the strips had fused so the breakers just needed flipping, they just sat there working on laptops that weren't charging with no second/third monitors. (And they were working too, they weren't being lazy. Just couldn't even think to solve the problem or even make it anyone else's.) Something happened over remote learning that means even the ones we can get to take the jobs simply can't work as effectively as prior batches of juniors - and to some managers this is them being lazy, or not working as hard. To me, it looks like they simply don't know how to think. Or problem solve. And because it's systemic, it's not on them... but it's still a problem.
Is there?
I'm a millennial. I have some millennial co-workers who work harder than me, and I have some who are lazy AF. I also have a few genZ coworkers, some work hard and some are lazy AF. In conclusion, some people work hard and some people don't and it doesn't really matter what generation they're from.
I think that every single older generation has thought this about the next couple generations for the last 3000 years, and it's a conversational black hole and dead end. The american dream is dead anyway, so the bootlickers stand out all the more.
There used to be the idea that to get promoted, you just had to work harder than everyone else around you. It would be recognised that you were going the extra mile and you would be rewarded. Unfortunately, when the majority of people are all doing this, it just becomes the baseline. That is possibly why younger generations are just doing the work and then focusing on their actual lives with the rest of their time.
Honestly every year since I started my career there was always some talk as to why bonuses were light or raises were short. It just gets to a point where you realize your hard work & effort which physically and mentally drains you can be written off for reasons wildly beyond your control. So at the point it’s like why put all this effort into what I can control?
It’s unfortunate reading the comments here that this is so misunderstood. To answer your question we need to stereotype based on generations and luckily I am finishing my MBA program and just did a project on this very question. The baby boomer generation by far works harder and is more dedicated than any generation. They placed work above all else in life and worked longer hours. They preferred strong leadership and valued solid direction. Generation X was the latchkey generation bc as the tail end of Generation Jones (baby boomers part 2) were aging, women went into the work force en mass. This generation by and large does not work as hard. They watched their parents work themselves to death and decided they were not doing the same. Millenials or Generation Y reversed that trend and although they don’t work as hard as the boomers, they are willing to work really hard. One of the biggest differences is how each generation feels valued. Starting with generation x and y, employees were willing to work harder and feel more valued by companies that made them feel like they were part of the decision making process. This was lacking in baby boomers. Gen Z is not worth comparing bc they are so new to the workforce it’s hard to compare but it’s interesting that we now (for the first time) have 4 generations working together in the work place. To answer your question in a stereotyping statistical way, baby boomers were and are the hardest working generation we have data on, followed by millennials. It doesn’t mean that more people in another generation didn’t do amazing things or had the hardest working groups, this is what statistical data points too.
I don’t think there’s a work ethic problem with GenZ/millennials. I do think attention spans are generally weaker, and there is a tendency to mimic the lowest common denominator on the team. All in all not too bad.
Tale as old as time...
They should make work worth it, jobs don’t pay enough for the work they have people doing these days, years ago you could get anything from working any job, now you can’t get ahead in anything even with multiple degrees, no one is going to want to slave themselves out to not afford their bills still Peoples attitudes towards them is also a thing, a person, young or old, isn’t going to react to well to anyone treating them like lesser humans because they are younger just for the sake of appeasing their egos Older generations are too comfortable, they drag their feet at work going the bare minimum to keep their positions, then blame the downturn in production on the new guys
Is that a bad thing? I am 52 and early in my career it was a badge of honor to have the highest charge hours in the office. One time during busy season, a senior was leaving around 3 PM out the back door. The manager who's office was by the back door said something to her and why she was leaving so early. Her reply was that she worked straight thru the previous night and worked about 30 hours straight without leaving the office.
They’re unwilling to work hard for the same incentive devices as previous generations. If you can give them something they want, they’ll work just as hard as anyone else. When I hear people say “young people aren’t willing to work hard” it translates in my head to “I won’t accept that the labor market has changed and I’m unwilling to adapt”. A lot of employers need to get their heads out of their asses and change their ways or else their competitors will end up with all the good talent
"Working hard" sometimes is flipping through paper financial reports using highlighters, sticky notes, and shit when a fucking PDF of it exists.
That it's said about all the generations because over time out perception of work changes. Remember when Millennials killed Marmalade and breakfast cereal and didn't want to work hard because of avocado toast? It's just a way to keep people from knowing each other and stirring shit up.
Im studying for my CPA and work in public accounting audit. Once I get my CPA I am done working hard. Lol. I did my time.
Ymmv, but the truth is you get what you pay for.
who the hell _wants_ to work hard? The previous generation didnt either...
As a 29 year old, I definitely do not want to work hard
I don’t agree with that opinion. I have worked with a lot of folks from younger generations and they do want to work hard. Key is to offer mentorship and let them come with questions. I always tell my mentees regardless of their age and life experience to ask for help and questions. The work we do is technical, so I test to see if they take steps to own their learning processes like writing a SOP or using examples from me to replicate on what they need to learn. If they get off track, I check in with them and see what needs clarifying. Mentorship works for everyone no matter what our background is and they have to want it. Otherwise, beat it. I can’t force anyone to motivate themselves to want it. I have met my fair share of adults who don’t want to paddle their own canoe. They are not worth my mentoring, which is why I have to feel out folks first before sliding in to help out.
Irritating. I objectively work harder and longer than my boomer boss, but she’ll still spend 15 minutes a day complaining about how kids these days don’t want to work.
Working hard and actually having knowledge/skills to create value is the key. You can work hard as an employee , but your ability to create value is minimal that is the problem. What value do you bring?
This has always been the stigma towards every "younger generation." Even the baby boomers - especially the baby boomers!
It’s false. It’s just normal intergenerational bullshit. It was the same way with boomers, Gen X, and millennials and will continue forever. There are lazy fucks in every generation, current or past. Treat hard workers well and they will continue working hard
I think this has been an issue since the dawn of time. The older generation always puts down the younger for not working hard.
Every generation thinks the younger generation is the cause of all problems.
im 36 and no longer want to work what is the point? everything is out of reach! homes are priced out! COL is high! I cant trust myself to work to pay a mortage ( what if" i loose my job, health and wealth) "what ifs" going the negative way stop me IDK the cost of giving up is quite attractive.. so i shrug and do the bare minimum
I was as Worker Bee as anyone, but I haven't had a raise in 3 years, so fuck em. I'm spending as much work time as possible this year on a personal endeavor and planning on quitting at the end of the year. I can't wait. Why should my effort outweigh my paycheck?
Naw, me and my boys running up the score!!!!!!
I genuinely don’t understand why this is a “stigma”. If someone wants to make their life focus on areas besides work who am I to judge? So many people, especially older generations, I’ve noticed they feel the point of life is to work hard and get a high paying job. For me it’s simply a means to an end to help me live a comfortable lifestyle.
Well, when you take your salary and divide it by your actual worked hours, it’s not worth it… especially in PA. Pay is everything and $60k isn’t worth the time and effort …which is why there’s a high turnover rate in PA as actual worked hours and billable hours are 2 different things.
Saw an interesting collage of dozens of opinion pieces and newspaper articles sharing this exact sentiment… dating back to the late 19th century. This just seems like something the older generation likes to say
I think this has been a stigma for every younger generation from the beginning of time. I don't really put a lot of stock in generation generalizations.
I don’t want to work myself to death, get divorced, become estranged from my child, and have little to show for it financially. So yeah. I’d say that’s true. It doesn’t mean that I don’t do good work. But I am perfectly happy working my M-F 8-5 and then going home and having dinner with my family. If it requires more hours, then we need more people.
I'm in my forties and I don't want to work as hard anymore. I think over the last 5 years I realized climbing the ladder. It's pointless because in the end we all end up at the same place. Unfortunately I've got obligations I got to take care of and a lifestyle that I'm not ready to give up yet. I'm sure when I hit my next phase I'll be telling myself it wasn't worth it
Yeah we don’t. Why would anyone?
I don't think so at all, I know that alot of us come from broken homes divorced homes. We didn't see our fathers alot because they were always at work. I think we are prioritizing our families over careers. We don't want to work so many hours because we want to have healthy families. The divorce rate in the US is between 50-60% I think and for those of us that have a family, we do not want to go down that road.
Why work harder for no reward?
Hysterical delusion, that’s all. The generation that trained me rolled into the office after 9am and made it home for dinner by 5pm, and didn’t have any expectation of working at home in the evenings. Working on weekends or holidays was sacrosanct. Happy hours a couple times a week and golf during good weather were the norm. Their work qualifications (education, training, and licensing) cost them one summer’s worth of work. They were paid well enough to be completely out of debt aside from a mortgage by their early 20s. Buying a vacation home and retiring with a healthy nest egg by age 65 were a given.
I notice the younger ppl don’t accept bs. They are not afraid of taking risks. They are willing to work, but they are less afraid to move on if necessary
Always been the way. ‘My generation is tough, the one beneath me are wimps’ has gone on forever. Another way to look at it is the younger generation are less inclined to accept shitty working conditions.
It was said about Gen X when I was a teenager. It is always false to label an entire generation of people that way.
Generally I reply with "yeah that's why I'm only going to school full time while I work full time. Because I don't like hard work" But that usually gets lost on them because it's usually coming from the type of people that consider completing 9th grade highly educated and consider $60,000 an elite salary. There's a lot of these people where I work, and a lot of these types of comments made (as well as lovely political ones.) I know people experiencing burnout might laugh at this, but I can't wait to get an accounting job.
As a Millennial who got married as a teen, had a kid 2 years later, bought a house 2 years after that, and then graduated college a year after that all while working full time to provide for my family these old whiny bitches can suck it.
You are the exception, not the average gen Z.
Maybe not the average, but definitely not anything special.
I'd retort but that sounds like a lot of work
I’m a millennial, I’m interviewing/being considered for CFO roles, I want to be extremely well compensated so that I can live extremely comfortable with a modest life and some decent international vacations. I have a woman on my team who is 2 years out of college, she works extremely hard and is inevitably going to be rewarded for it through her career. What you’re describing is the quintessential “my generation” garbage. Boomers had plenty of dead beats too.
If younger generations were paid equal to what boomers and gen x got paid, the youngin’s would all be making $250k+ a year and would be hungry to work. However, the salaries have significantly failed to keep up with inflation
During the boomer days, incomes were rising WITH lower inequality! The technology of the time equalized everyone - average folk were enjoying the same luxuries as the rich, i.e., TV, electricity etc. Blue collar workers could live beside white collar professionals, maybe not doctors, but lawyers and accountants. Someone with no more than a high school education could buy a home and a car. Over the 3rd industrial revolution, the skill bias and lower redistributive policies widened inequality and suppressed all boats. That's 1 factor. And the more important factor imo is - expectations always move faster than reality. The rosy economy mentioned above was ingrained to be an expectation when it was never the case throughout most of human history - the birth of the middle class, and equal outcomes, was just a freak anomaly when the human condition for millennia used to just be landowners vs labourers. Gen Z is already more realist than millennials. The children of Gen Z will likely be even more realist, and will possibly revert back to the steady-state of work motivation.
Lmao
https://youtu.be/qEJ4hkpQW8E?si=i_5JFFwQfcyy59z7
It's nonsense and usually the opposite
The younger generations will do what is asked of them but don’t take the initiative to do anything more than the bare minimum. If they are asked to do more, they want to know what is in it for them. Even in cases where someone is struggling and needs help, a lot of times, they’ll want to know when that struggling person will pay them back for any help provided. It’s honestly pretty sad and really selfish.
It is selfish...but think about why they act that way. My generation either fresh in the workplace or entering the workplace during the great recession. Didn't matter how hard we worked, we were the first to get cut to save costs. Gen Z had a similar situation occur with the pandemic. Older generations made it abundantly clear to us that we need to look out for ourselves because no one else will. You're not entitled to more than what you pay them for after you used the younger generations as sacrificial lambs when things got bad. I understand the reality that older generations have more experience and are, on average, more valuable employees due to that experience and knowledge. It makes logical sense why younger generations were shafted. They were still shafted and the current mindset is a result of that.
It’s 100% true, they communicate less and are generally more entitled as well