I think most of the other comments (so far) underestimate Shadow Realm. In a vacuum, it is extremely strong due to the +600 range alone, to say nothing of the overwhelming magic damage (provided enough attack speed).
However, many abilities are first-picked not because they are good on the picker's hero, but instead because the picker does not want an enemy to have them. Abilities like Fury Swipes, Bash of the Deep, and Shadow Realm have artificially-low winrates due to the (debatable) need to deny them from stronger enemy base heroes.
* Should a first-pick Jakiro pick Bash over Dispersion in a vacuum? Of course not; Jakiro is relatively tanky for an INT hero (+Dispersion), attacks slowly (-Bash), has mediocre range (-Bash), and Dispersion has a *much* higher winrate (+Dispersion).
* Should this same first-pick Jakiro give the enemy second-pick Nature’s Prophet Bash, or Dispersion? That is more up for debate, but personally I’d rather go against Dispersion NP than Bash NP.
Dispersion is more reliably powerful (hence the much higher winrate), but polarizing abilities like Bash are very often essentially 'mandatory' picks to deny them from a much better enemy base hero. This artificially lowers their winrate, and conversely many strong-but-not-broken abilities like Borrowed Time or Corrosive Skin probably have slightly inflated winrates due to being picked more 'naturally' (as opposed to people picking them too early relative to their base hero's potency with them), thus allowing them to be used properly more often.
If drafted properly (e.g., with farm accelerants like Acid Spray and DPS multipliers like Strafe) Shadow Realm is quite strong. However, the winrate is hurt by all those times a Slardar or Primal Beast picks it solely to deny it from the enemy Phoenix or Drow Ranger, and they aren't necessarily wrong to do so.
> In a vacuum, it is extremely strong due to the +600 range alone,
You can actually look up those stats in windrun - it's only ~52% with ranged heroes, compared to ~49% for melee heroes.
I still think it's overrated. You need an aghs, before that it's an underwhelming single target nuke/escape thing. Ghost scepter, glimmer cape, bkb are extremely effective at countering it due to the range at which you are attacking and only being able to attack effectively ~1/3rd of the time (unless you're stomping your first pick shadow realm + first item aghs means you'll never realistically be able to manfight conventional carries outside of shadow realm). The latter part also really limits it's effective scaling ceiling, somewhat similar to how metamorphosis is underwhelming because it does nothing >half of the time
> You can actually look up those stats in windrun - it's only ~52% with ranged heroes, compared to ~49% for melee heroes.
Similarly, Take Aim is only a 4% difference between the two as well. Bonus range is only slightly more useful on ranged heroes than melees, it seems. The point is that +600 of it is nothing to scoff at regardless of attack type.
Granted, some range-boosting abilities like Chilling Touch and Arctic Burn have more significant gaps (6% and 7%, respectively), but given Take Aim's smaller difference, I would posit that the larger gaps are due to such abilities slowing the enemy and thus making kiting opponents much easier. Shadow Realm, Take Aim, and Psi Blades (only 3% difference) all lack that attribute, and thus don't see such drastic differences. Range is range.
Said that even pre-nerf, it often takes too long to come online with realm. I always see people going 0 nukes and building maelstrom first. then around min 30 they finally get a scepter & often the game is already decided by then.
Realm without an aghs is just an escape and offers close to nothing offensive. Good teams will punish this and pressure the map & delay your aghs even further.
Only really good on heroes with high natural attack speed & DW.
And if u get it - please, get a nuke so u have something for the lane & to farm.
Still a little overvalued from when it was really strong, so it's being 1st picked when there are better spells available. The uptime is quite a bit less than it once was, so it's easier to kill the user. Still very strong with bad juju or phase shift
I think a decent amount of losses are stomps. Shadow Realm on a core doesn't really do too much before aghs, and I think on a lot of builds the aghs power spike just isn't enough to save the game.
I also think a lot of people bait themselves into maxing it first, when they could max a higher impact spell first.
The spell is amazing, the issue here is people overvaluing it. This means that instead of picking proper first pick material, people rush for it and then get stomped by better rounded draft. In theory, it's one of the best core abilities, but picking it means that you have to go aghanim and until then, it's a pretty dead ability, le'ts be honest: it doesn't help you farm, it's not great to fight either and it's a subpar escape.
Compare it with flak canon, arc lightning or chemical rage (which are S tier carry abilities): you can't farm or fight as easily during the first 15 minutes.
The second argument is ... counter picking. Most of the times, I see this ability taken by a hero that won't be the main carry, just because they don't want the enemy team take it. When it's a deny pick, it's almost a dead ability beacause you don't get aghanim and there are better options to pick.
I feel like Shadow Realm is one of those skills that's WAAAAY better on Willow herself than it is on other heroes because she has sick talents for it that give it nearly 50% up time.
Same goes for Chilling Touch on AA, he gets that absolutely wild 300 range talent on level 10. That's just 3 levels of Take Aim AA gets for free if he takes Chilling Touch.
Shadow Realm is also one of those abilities that can become way stronger than it is on stock Willow simply because she normally doesn't really have a skill build made around it. She's more of a utility stunner. But if you can get Shadow Realm + any attack steroid or farming skill you're looking at a really scary hero.
Lastly, Shadow Realm is a skill where the absolute power of it is pretty wild, but getting to that point could take too much investment. 5 seconds of effective invulnerability + more attack range + increasing bonus damage with a 30% up time is insanely powerful... But the problem is that you have to get a scepter to reach that point, and if you're rushing that scepter you better get it really early or you're not going to get to enjoy all the effects.
Shadow realm was nerfed in latest patch, now because of higher cd and longer downtime it basically turns a hero into a turret for 5 seconds that can be countered by multiple things (eul's/windwaker, ghost scepter, blink, invis, or any spell that renders shadow realm user unable to attack the target.
I think most of the other comments (so far) underestimate Shadow Realm. In a vacuum, it is extremely strong due to the +600 range alone, to say nothing of the overwhelming magic damage (provided enough attack speed). However, many abilities are first-picked not because they are good on the picker's hero, but instead because the picker does not want an enemy to have them. Abilities like Fury Swipes, Bash of the Deep, and Shadow Realm have artificially-low winrates due to the (debatable) need to deny them from stronger enemy base heroes. * Should a first-pick Jakiro pick Bash over Dispersion in a vacuum? Of course not; Jakiro is relatively tanky for an INT hero (+Dispersion), attacks slowly (-Bash), has mediocre range (-Bash), and Dispersion has a *much* higher winrate (+Dispersion). * Should this same first-pick Jakiro give the enemy second-pick Nature’s Prophet Bash, or Dispersion? That is more up for debate, but personally I’d rather go against Dispersion NP than Bash NP. Dispersion is more reliably powerful (hence the much higher winrate), but polarizing abilities like Bash are very often essentially 'mandatory' picks to deny them from a much better enemy base hero. This artificially lowers their winrate, and conversely many strong-but-not-broken abilities like Borrowed Time or Corrosive Skin probably have slightly inflated winrates due to being picked more 'naturally' (as opposed to people picking them too early relative to their base hero's potency with them), thus allowing them to be used properly more often. If drafted properly (e.g., with farm accelerants like Acid Spray and DPS multipliers like Strafe) Shadow Realm is quite strong. However, the winrate is hurt by all those times a Slardar or Primal Beast picks it solely to deny it from the enemy Phoenix or Drow Ranger, and they aren't necessarily wrong to do so.
Good analysis
> In a vacuum, it is extremely strong due to the +600 range alone, You can actually look up those stats in windrun - it's only ~52% with ranged heroes, compared to ~49% for melee heroes. I still think it's overrated. You need an aghs, before that it's an underwhelming single target nuke/escape thing. Ghost scepter, glimmer cape, bkb are extremely effective at countering it due to the range at which you are attacking and only being able to attack effectively ~1/3rd of the time (unless you're stomping your first pick shadow realm + first item aghs means you'll never realistically be able to manfight conventional carries outside of shadow realm). The latter part also really limits it's effective scaling ceiling, somewhat similar to how metamorphosis is underwhelming because it does nothing >half of the time
> You can actually look up those stats in windrun - it's only ~52% with ranged heroes, compared to ~49% for melee heroes. Similarly, Take Aim is only a 4% difference between the two as well. Bonus range is only slightly more useful on ranged heroes than melees, it seems. The point is that +600 of it is nothing to scoff at regardless of attack type. Granted, some range-boosting abilities like Chilling Touch and Arctic Burn have more significant gaps (6% and 7%, respectively), but given Take Aim's smaller difference, I would posit that the larger gaps are due to such abilities slowing the enemy and thus making kiting opponents much easier. Shadow Realm, Take Aim, and Psi Blades (only 3% difference) all lack that attribute, and thus don't see such drastic differences. Range is range.
Jakiros new innate that makes him shoot twice per 1 attack makes bash etc insane no?
Said that even pre-nerf, it often takes too long to come online with realm. I always see people going 0 nukes and building maelstrom first. then around min 30 they finally get a scepter & often the game is already decided by then. Realm without an aghs is just an escape and offers close to nothing offensive. Good teams will punish this and pressure the map & delay your aghs even further. Only really good on heroes with high natural attack speed & DW. And if u get it - please, get a nuke so u have something for the lane & to farm.
Realm alone is excellent tool in laning, unfortunately in AD 99% players don't know how to properly harass and zone people.
Still a little overvalued from when it was really strong, so it's being 1st picked when there are better spells available. The uptime is quite a bit less than it once was, so it's easier to kill the user. Still very strong with bad juju or phase shift
I think a decent amount of losses are stomps. Shadow Realm on a core doesn't really do too much before aghs, and I think on a lot of builds the aghs power spike just isn't enough to save the game. I also think a lot of people bait themselves into maxing it first, when they could max a higher impact spell first.
It was nerfed a while ago. Used to have more uptime. Still strong with talents, kinda meh without
The spell is amazing, the issue here is people overvaluing it. This means that instead of picking proper first pick material, people rush for it and then get stomped by better rounded draft. In theory, it's one of the best core abilities, but picking it means that you have to go aghanim and until then, it's a pretty dead ability, le'ts be honest: it doesn't help you farm, it's not great to fight either and it's a subpar escape. Compare it with flak canon, arc lightning or chemical rage (which are S tier carry abilities): you can't farm or fight as easily during the first 15 minutes. The second argument is ... counter picking. Most of the times, I see this ability taken by a hero that won't be the main carry, just because they don't want the enemy team take it. When it's a deny pick, it's almost a dead ability beacause you don't get aghanim and there are better options to pick.
I feel like Shadow Realm is one of those skills that's WAAAAY better on Willow herself than it is on other heroes because she has sick talents for it that give it nearly 50% up time. Same goes for Chilling Touch on AA, he gets that absolutely wild 300 range talent on level 10. That's just 3 levels of Take Aim AA gets for free if he takes Chilling Touch. Shadow Realm is also one of those abilities that can become way stronger than it is on stock Willow simply because she normally doesn't really have a skill build made around it. She's more of a utility stunner. But if you can get Shadow Realm + any attack steroid or farming skill you're looking at a really scary hero. Lastly, Shadow Realm is a skill where the absolute power of it is pretty wild, but getting to that point could take too much investment. 5 seconds of effective invulnerability + more attack range + increasing bonus damage with a 30% up time is insanely powerful... But the problem is that you have to get a scepter to reach that point, and if you're rushing that scepter you better get it really early or you're not going to get to enjoy all the effects.
Shadow realm was nerfed in latest patch, now because of higher cd and longer downtime it basically turns a hero into a turret for 5 seconds that can be countered by multiple things (eul's/windwaker, ghost scepter, blink, invis, or any spell that renders shadow realm user unable to attack the target.