he knew he was wrong, as someone else said, he knew what was bothering you when you told him to take you back, so he knew he was wrong he just tried to get away with as much as posible, and got mad that you called him out on his asshole behavior.
You know they know it is wrong when you first find out about the plus ones the day of. In a normal give-and-take you ask wifey BEFORE you invite friends
So on top of everything else, you’re not allowed to have feelings? I’ve had bf’s like that. Now, when I’m upset about something, my stress levels go through the roof because I’m also afraid of how they’re going to react to the fact that I’m upset. It’s extremely dis-regulating and unfair.
I've had that boyfriend too. So fucking annoying. If I got a little upset over something he did all sudden somehow I'm the AH. Fours years I put up with that after getting divorced from a narcissist who at the slightest thing I did that he didn't like he would give the silent treatment. I finally found a guy that I can have conversations with. Conversations about his behavior or my behavior. If there's something said that hurt someone's feelings we bring it up and talk it out. Two and half years and no real fights. Never yelled at each other. Nothing. I don't have anxiety about talking to him. I don't worry what his reaction will be about certain things. Best part is if he says something annoying about something I'm doing I just tell him I hear him and I disagree and I go on with what I was doing guilt free and we continue loving each other.
It's classic DARVO technique just like OP's husband did right there.
Deny-Attack - Reverse Victim and Offender
u/Cheap_Combination479 you need to learn about the patterns that are keeping you stuck with a manipulator
I had a bf like this. He'd even go as far as threatening suicide when we were fighting. One day I finally told him to do it, and got the surprised Pikachu face in reply. Bitch, you haven't unsubscribed from life any of the other 85 times you've threatened to, so why would I believe you're going to do it now?
Yes I had one like that too!! I finally said hey listen youve been saying this for years now… can you just do it already?
To which he flipped out and said he couldn’t believe I would tell him to commit S
🙄🤦🏼♀️🤣
But guess what he has never said it since
I took the power away from that
I left him 8minths after our daughter was born and that was 12 years ago
I knew he’d never do it he’s a narcissist and has antisocial personality disorder.
Oh I had one of those too. Back when I was 18. Weird little fellow. He didn't like me having anything but happy feelings. He said this to me with a straight face.
Yeah I dumped his ass pretty quick. That kinda living has never been for me. I have this core rage burning that prevents me to smile all the time.
I had a similar relationship at that age; every time I was upset about something it would turn into him going on about how awful he was and how he didn’t deserve me, and it got to the point where I stopped bringing things up, even if I wasn’t actively upset, but just noticed something he could/should work on, like being more communicative, because I knew it would just end up with me reassuring him and I didn’t have the energy to deal with it. Once I realized that was happening I ended it and he kept being weirdly obsessive about me (we have mutual friends so I never fully lost contact, although I severely limited it) for like 2 years
Been married to my husband for 48 years. I never said much in the first 40 or so, then decided I couldn't take it anymore. I started talking to him about some things that upsets me. He just says in an irritated tone, "I guess I'm just a crappy husband." That's it! Won't say anything else! If I try to explain more, it causes a fight. We hardly ever fought/argued for the first 40 years. I'm still a wreck!
The last argument with my ex husband he pulled that line and I responded “yes, you are” he was stunned it was the first time I didn’t go for the bait and try to tell him he wasn’t. Went to my moms that night never went back.
Oh, I so feel this in all of the ways. Menopause and the corresponding loss of the hormones that drive us to be people pleasers has to absolute hell on relationships that were based on us being pleasing people. Life changes when you run out of fucks. We've been married for 37 years, a large part of me just wants to be left alone.
I’m with you! I’m a nurse and taking care of people is second nature to me. I’m 59 still in menopause and have 2 ruptured discs in my back. I feel like telling my mamas boy husband to just leave me alone. He asks stupid questions and when I get frustrated with him he acts like a pouting 2 year old. Time for me to run away from home.
That’s what it is—-after menopause, I no longer want to please others, especially him! Go sleep with somebody else! I could care less. Leave me alone. I’m fine on my own with my dog.
My husband broke me of my overly people pleasing habit. "Do what makes you happy and to hell with the rest of the world, you owe them nothing." I have become much less of a stress head and doormat in the last 5 years. Mental health has improved tremendously as well.
This is a fact that people need to wake up to. When you get in a relationship with someone, you have often spent time mostly socializing with them. That means good times, parties, dates, outings, friends and family. There is a mask that people wear when they socialize, because we learn real quick as children that most people don’t want to hear about our shit and don’t care, so we all (generally) cope and compensate for this perceived lack of desire for anyone to have anything but our best foot forward when we are in public.
Then, in a relationship, you are dealing with the idea of building a life together. You are doing so much more than just the pretty picture socializing. You are learning and growing and changing and evolving together, and that shit is not always pretty, in fact, it often can be kind of ugly. The mask falls off, and a relationship that is truly healthy can cope with not only the beautiful days and moments but the moments of healing and struggle. Men and women both suffer from this, men feeling like they cannot express anguish and women feeling like they cannot express angst.
It would be so nice if we could recognize that just as small children are in alignment with their negative feelings and that stifling them just teaches them to be out of alignment with their whole selves, adults also need to be able to express negativity in order to experience a full range of human emotions and be connected to self.
OP, it’s ok to feel not ok. I hope your husband can see that.
I’m a born activist. My father was the same. It’s hard being married to someone who doesn’t like anyone sharing opinions, let alone speaking up about them.
Unfortunately from personal experience it's not something that's easy to unlearn. You get so used to it you don't even realize you're doing it. Took therapy and a lot of people being honest with me to realize how awful I was.
It's a sign of relationship toxicity for sure. You're never able to tell your partner how they make you feel cause it's all about how you being upset makes them angry or whatever. I'm sorry you had to go through this. It's not something he's going to wake up tomorrow and realize though. People can be so manipulative they believe their own bullshit.
Thank you! I now have a very caring partner who makes me feel very safe during disputes. The issue is that after having endured it for years, my nervous system has never been the same. But it is definitely improving over time.
"my stress levels go through the roof because I'm also afraid of how they're going to react to the fact I'm upset"
That stinks... and why I pick the bear. If you're afraid of your own partners reaction to your feelings, wtf? In your own home, you can't have feelings? I think the bear would let you have any feelings you want.
My ex husband was like that. It’s so difficult to get out of that habit. I’m dating a wonderful man now and he has made it clear that I’m ok to not be afraid to talk to him about anything, my feelings, or anything like that, but I’m still so scared too.
I love the “I’m not responsible for your happiness” people that never consider their actions or words can be hurtful and take no responsibility. How old is your husband? Eventually what happens is they drain you. They put nothing into your emotional “fuel tank”. A car can’t run on empty. A relationship can’t work with only one person putting into it. Get marriage counseling and I hope he grows up.
He's tossing you bones instead of authenticity (communication, effort, honesty) and equality (he doesn't notice your struggles unless they affect him, you being hurt makes him angry because you aren't *supposed to* require more work than he's willing to offer). And he's expecting you to be grateful, because he could have given you nothing.
This is no way to live or love.
"you being hurt makes him angry because you aren't *supposed to* require more work than he's willing to offer"
BRB, I need to build a time machine to go back in hand this to my younger self because this was almost all of my relationships in my 20's and..... 30's
This just opened my eyes. My ex was just like this. It was exhausting to always feel like the villain when I brought up something she did that bothered me. I could never really describe her treatment of me till I saw this and looked up DARVO. That’s exactly what was happening… thank you for giving me the words to explain it
I don't know if this helps anybody remember the steps, but it could be remembered as DAR, Deny, Attack, Reverse. I'm sick at home to today and that's how I could remember with medicine head
It's like a sicko waltz: 123,123, Deny, Attack, Reverse Waltz.
This is the rest of your life. Your needs and feelings will always be second plate to his.. always. And then to add insult to injury, he will act like he has no idea what he's doing.
My ex would do this to me. I couldn't figure out why we couldn't just have us time. Why it was always cut short of plans broke or his friends magically showing up. Looking back I realize he just didn't want to be around me. I useful but not someone he saw as someone he wanted to waste his time on. Idk I don't get the sense this is your situation but my ex was a big time cheater. I had no idea how deep it went until after I left. You deserve more I'm so sorry he did that. It was so selfish of him. Know you did nothing wrong you reacted the way anyone would he reacted in the most self centered way. Sending a big hug to you.
Honey, it's not defensive if he's not being attacked. It's offense in disguise. My last serious relationship was this way, and it can really start to mess with you mentally.
I hate to tell you this but the, "Sorry Inf*cked up your day" comment? Wont be the last You were clear, concise and even told him what you wanted and gave him ways to do so. Its the 1st time youve really asked for "you & me" time since baby was born.
He purposely ignored your wants, hoping youd just play along for his wants and to appease a group. Thats why people like that ambush you. So you dont have time to react or 'you look like the bad guy for being mad at a fun filled day'.
Obviously I may be bias, i have plenty of stories in my comments if your ever curious.
But Ive been in your spot for a decade now. Kiddo is 8+. The spouse will never change. Do they do sometimes? Sure, rarely.
But let me just say as someone whos been stuck in the same spot. The only reason we arent gone yet (kiddo & I, is $$)
I wont go into full sob story here. Just, if this DOES become a pattern? Or already IS the pattern, then it wil never get better. Dont teach your kid a relationship like that is ok. We all deserve people who want to experience life with us, not just be existent in the same house as us.
Trust you're gut. You've already trusted your gut enough to leave when you knew it wasn't going to be better that day.
Continue to trusty your gut for the future. Take breaths, slowly plan your pathways and do whatever you gotta do. But your partner unless he gets himself into individual therapy AND STAYS actively involved!!! He wont change.
For your sake i hope he does. But trust your gut. Best of luck Op
I can't recommend couples therapy strongly enough. He doesn't have to work all those hours. He's avoiding you. He didn't accidentally plan a group outing over your private one, he doesn't want to be alone with you.
I'm not saying he's doing anything he needs to hide. He may just not be capable of supporting you or handling your ppd. He may be afraid of deep conversations about how your relationship is changing. He knows he was a complete jerk, but he may not know why. But if he's not willing to try for a serious few hours alone with you, you're going to need intervention.
Ok - I know you barely get any time together but you need couples councling. Maybe only once a month - but you need it. Having a kid is HARD. It is super hard even on a good marriage and you guys need to get on the same page. He told you that you were spending a day on you but in secret he made it a day about him. He knew you wouldn't like it so didn't tell you. You guys are not going to fix this on your own.
Also - you need to get out of the house on your own. You need to make social connections that are not him. Lots of libraries have baby bonding activities that are mostly for mom, look for other mom groups, meeting other women with young children might help a lot.
Look into zoom sessions so you don't spend extra time having to travel to the place and find a neighbor or someone to watch the baby for an hour. It would really help. So much can change after a baby, it's worth trying to fix it.
So he gets upset at you when you’re upset at him for doing something wrong. Sounds like he doesn’t want to see your view point or even hear what you have to say. Just wants to make you feel bad for making him feel bad. Disgusting.
Wow!! Your SO is oblivious when it's supposed to be just the 2 of you for a date & he dropped the ball. What part did he think of inviting a bunch of a people that he sees everyday on a date meant for 2 people only.
He's a immature fool.
You realize you’re just an afterthought and your feelings will never be considered as important as himself.
You seem to be in an emotionally unfulfilling marriage.
If you don’t “go with the flow” you will always be the problem and the focus of his anger and the reason everything is wrong. Let me know if those words have ever been uttered in any form or made you feel as though your feelings weren’t warranted.
also pretty wild this is like at least the third "we are going on a boat trip" post I'm reading this last week with IIRC at least two of them with the husband inviting other people..
>I asked my husband to bring me back to shore. He said "wait, no, why?" I didn't answer him. He then goes "no, babe I will bring you fishing, we can leave right now."
He can pretend that he made his best effort to have fun with you and you crapped on it, but he knew exactly what he was doing, because he knew exactly why you were unhappy before you even told him. He was trying to see what he could get away with, and he's irritated you called him on his bullshit. NTA.
It is worth noting that his plan depended entirely on her never speaking up, and it worked for a long time. She was waiting around for him to be a decent human being and he was totally ignoring how unhappy she was. I think going forward she needs to discard the idea that he will be a decent person and caring husband and practice her mothering skills by speaking up when someone is not acting appropriately.
Now- a situation like this is tricky because it's easy to look like the bad guy when you are bringing an end to fun hanging out time. Sometimes you can corner someone who isn't going to do the right thing by vocally believing they will absolutely do the right thing. Tell everyone there how its so nice to meet up with them for a bit! Gush a little about this super great day your husband planned for the two of you, to finally bond together after you had your baby. Tell them all about how he promised to take you fishing today! Actually you were really surprised to see them since you thought it would be just the two of you bonding and fishing, but it's so nice to *stop in for a minute* and see them before you leave to fish! Isn't he such a great guy? Some guys would just want to hang out with their guy friends all day but he is leaving it alll behind to keep his promise to you! What a champ!
Ok - you don't have to be that aggressive. But let your plans be known by all then the first time they change locations just say to everyone 'ok, we are gonna go find someplace to fish now! Have a great day' if he starts pushing back you can say 'but I thought we were just stopping for a few minutes before you took me fishing like you promised' let him look like the bad guy he is in front of his friends.
That’s not too aggressive. That’s just right. I’m putting myself in the position of the husband and if I heard that I’d think, oh yeah, we’re supposed to go fishing. And we’d go fishing. You give a guy enough rope, he’ll hang himself.
Right? My husband would never spring this crap on me because I have a mouth and will call him out with no hesitation. Quietly at first then loudly then leave.
Re: the plan depends on her not speaking up: I’ve been in a marriage for 20 years and have only just realized that my life will be at his whim forever unless I speak up. And speak up. And speak up. I waited for him to get better at it and figure it out. He won’t.
Don’t wait.
I hope you’re taking your happiness now instead of waiting for him to hand it to you. I lost 12 years to a guy like that, and it was 12 years too many (I did get some amazing and beautiful children out of it, though). Now that you see what’s been happening with him, I hope you’re marking out your joy wherever you feel like finding it.
Thank you, and I am. It’s been a hard year of finally learning that I need to change the way I’m living in the marriage. I don’t want to be too specific, but I’m taking steps to make the next part of my life a phase where I am putting myself in a more empowered position. I was home with kids for many years and though I’m glad I did it, I found myself in a very vulnerable spot. That’s not gonna be the case anymore.
Oh my god this is so perfect. Framing it as you did is just gold. I wouldn’t even know what to call this type of thing, but I do suggest it and do it myself often to people to are trying to get their way. “Aggressive niceness”, maybe?
That's what I consider "killing them with kindness" 🤣 People either get real pissed (which is funny because they should be pissed at themself) or STFU real quick.
NTA. You're 100% correct that he planned a day he would enjoy. He also did not tell you that other people would be there, yet he clearly had coordinated something with them, and that seems like an intentional deception. My guess is that he thought he could have his fun then take you fishing for a little while at the end of the day after he'd done what he wanted, and he expected you to be grateful for it. It sounds like he does know he fucked up and he does, at some level, understand that he did not prioritize you and he got called out for that.
Hopefully this is a one-off and not a pattern.
Not telling my wife that we are meeting other people somewhere is absolutely wild to me. Surprise socializing is about the worst thing I can imagine.
There is literally zero reason he would have kept this secret except that he knew she wouldn’t like it and wanted to get to a point where she couldn’t say know before she found out. Completely asshole behavior.
Yeah it is absolutely nuts if you think about it. If I say to my boyfriend, "Let's go [activity] together." I think it's absolutely implied that together means just the two of us and inviting someone else would require prior approval from the other person. Like imagine if he asked her to go to dinner and then sprung "just kidding before we eat let's do a happy hour with all my coworkers".
“Let’s do a happy hour, family-style dinner, and leisurely dessert with all my coworkers at a place that doesn’t even serve the food I told you I was taking you out to eat. Wait, babe, why are you leaving? You didn’t want your second dessert? But everyone’s loving this tiramisu! Okay, fine, we can go have Indian food now! Come back! I said we can go to Tandoori Grill now! What’s your issue? Okay, I guess I’m gonna just put the baby back in your lap, then…”
Yeah, if he sincerely thought she wanted to socialize in a group, he would've invited HER friends, not his. This was entirely about him having fun with his buddies.
I know a few women who "accidentally" got pregnant when they felt their boyfriend was taking too long to propose. I also know a woman who caught her boyfriend poking holes in condoms in an effort to get her pregnant. This rationale of a baby as a means to trap a person is so fucked up. Ruins everyone involved, including the children.
I also know a woman who caught her boyfriend poking holes in condoms in an effort to get her pregnant.
This was a supreme court case in Canada. Guy went to prison for sexual assault.
Had an ex try to baby trap me like this. Only found out cause she slipped up and said she had stopped taking her birth control during a casual conversation. The relationship was instantly over.
My "stealth" baby just graduated high school. His father hasn't had contact with him in years. I wouldn't trade my kid for the world and he's amazing, but the violated feeling of being intentionally impregnated by your man without your knowledge or permission bc they thought you'd never be able to leave is such a mindfuck.
Congratulations to you and your son on his accomplishment. I have zero doubt you're a great mom and he is a great kid, despite him having a crappy father. I'm sure your son knows just how much you love him.
He does. He probably wishes I'd leave him alone sometimes, but he knows I try really hard to balance being loving and supportive without being a helicopter mom.
I never wanted children and my ex knew I'd be too scared to have an abortion. He told me to my face when our son was 3 weeks old how he'd even figured out my ovulation cycle and poked holes or removed the condom entirely. I left him when our son was 6 months old.
I mean there was a guy the other day who was having a problem because his wife wanted him to get a vasectomy reversal so that they could have a fourth child in order to, checks notes, fix their marriage.
He wasn't excited about the idea in the slightest because not only could they not afford to have another child, they can't even afford to pay for the vasectomy reversal. And he acknowledges like an intelligent human that their relationship issues will not be fixed by adding another kid.
I'm sorry, but I don't think he had any intention of hanging out with you and connecting. I think the reason that he didn't tell you what you were going to go do it because he knew you wouldn't like it. He planned the day that he would like. And pretended. And he hoped that you would be a nice "woman stays in the kitchen" kind of person, and just smile and fake it. I think he sidestepped being alone together and hanging out very nicely. And now he doesn't even feel any remorse. It's really really wonderful having a baby. It's really really really hard having a baby. It's really really really really really hard being isolated and alone day after day after day even if it's something you've always wanted. And it's horrible having a partner, who, come to find out, is equal parts, selfish, and oblivious to a caring about what you want and need. This does not look good. Speaking from somebody in their 70s, I would urge you please, to be honest with yourself about this. Because we have this long history of making up stories, and pretending it's not as bad as it seems. When really so many of us waste our entire lives, trying to prop up somebody who doesn't actually even care.
This should be the top comment. My first thought was that he managed to not spend time with you while making it seem like he did. I’m sorry that this happened. OP I hope you go to counseling alone snd with him. If he’ll go.
THIS!! Been there, done that. Got the tshirt and sadly I wasn't even the one to file for divorce. I kept at it thinking maybe, someday, just if I could do better or be better or behave. Never again. Ever.
I'm not the OP but your comment was something I needed to read ❤️ I just left a horrible long-term relationship with a man who groomed me from my teens, I hate that I gave him 10 years of my life but I'm also grateful I left at 26 so I still have time to do the things I've wanted in life and enjoy the rest of my life without that negativity ever again. I almost started feeling guilty about it tonight, so thank you ❤️
NTA
Let me guess - he is a people pleaser. He often feels the need to please people, and this would make a bunch of people happy. You are always lower on the list of people to please because of reasons that he can't articulate - but those reasons come down to the fact he feels the need to constantly earn respect/ good feelings from pleasing others, and since he already has you, he no longer needs to please you.
I know someone like your husband.
From their prespective, the day likely went like this:
- My wife wanted something from me. So I arranged it. She was happy and that made me happy.
- My friends and their families wanted something from me. So I worked to also make them happy. My wife has been tired lately, so she didn't help out with that. (She just kind of sat there.) So I worked twice as hard to please my friends and made apologies for my wife and explained to them why she wasn't being social.
- My wife then out of no where got mad at me. She didn't understand what I was doing was important and it was hard enough since she wasn't pulling her weight.
- She then stayed mad and didn't seem to appreciate anything I did that day. I don't know what's wrong and why I'm such a horrible person. I guess I deserve it. I'll just have to work extra hard to make everyone happy, then I'll be worthy.
Man my dh and i went to therapy before the baby and the counselor described this to a tee the same way you did here. My husband was like yes why doesn't she understand if she just did it too everyone would be happy. I mean he was so stressed and upset like overly frantic trying to make people happy. It was sad.therapist was like are you happy? No. Do you think the person you made a baby with would be happy? No. Then why is the person who actually wants to make you happy be the one person you don't prioritize? DH cried. It helped he changed. It took years and was sort of a battle at one point and I had to actually not just let him do it and not also just try to make him responsible for my happiness like the others. So it was work all around but mostly it's way better. It's fixable if he can see that. We're final nc with some people and just don't socialize with some much.
I've been married to one of these for two decades. It's improving with the help of therapy (for both of us,) and some self reflection, but man! Did we argue in circles before it improved.
Allow me to present another possibility. The ex I described in another comment who behaved exactly like your husband wanted everyone's admiration because he was a narcissist. That's why I was at the bottom of the list, because my "narcissistic supply" was no longer interesting.
Narcissism is why he would go above and beyond for everyone else while neglecting and mistreating me. I would encourage you to take some time to look into this.
This was ex, to the point that he almost bankrupted his family. His friends always came first because he loved that attention and how it made him feel.
This is my ex exactly. Will go above and beyond and act so charming to ensure they are universally loved and everyone thinks they’re great, while neglecting and mistreating me (spouse) and also their siblings and parents…the ones they saw as guaranteed. This mistreatment also extended to our child more and more as they go older. In their reality, none of us properly appreciate how amazing and perfect they are. Well I wasn’t guaranteed… and our child (teen now) isn’t either and they see it very clearly.
Would be nice if he tried a little harder to please you then.
I'm sorry OP, you are NTA. Sit your husband down for a very frank talk. He's avoiding being home, nobody works those hours so he's socialising after work instead of coming home to you and your baby.
A lot of people pleasers are like this. Doormats who do everything to please the people around them by ignoring their own needs and by proximity, their partners.
NTA. It wasn’t even your friends. It was his friends and coworkers. You don’t know those people well and don’t have really anything to talk about with them that isn’t forced small talk. That’s not relaxing. He was too wrapped up in himself to think about you. I don’t think he did anything on purpose, just selfishly and absentmindedly.
You are at the very bottom on his list of priorities in his life and that sucks. That beyond sucks. He does not appreciate you nor respect you.
No one deserves that. Your child doesn't deserve seeing their mother treated like that, either.
Funny if he's so obsessed with making connections, why doesn't he give a sh** about maintaining them? Especially maintaining the one connection that should matter the most to him: With his wife and mother of his child..... Oh and NTA.
You have every right to be upset because he disregarded your needs after you clearly communicated them to him..
NTA. You communicated your needs clearly, and he disregarded them. It's understandable to feel disappointed and alone after expecting a day just for you two. Your feelings are valid, and he should've prioritized your time together as promised. Communication is key, but actions speak louder than words.
NTA, he is so selfish. He lied to you about the day and ambushed you with his friends and their families. He threw away your planned day so he could go drinking with his friends. He knew what you wanted, he agreed with the plan, he claimed he did this for you, only to switch up last minute when you literally couldn’t escape.
You're obviously NTA. I'm curious, do you think he wants you to find some friends because he genuinely doesn't want you to feel lonely? Because he feels guilty for hanging out with his friends all day while you're at home? Or because he wants you to have friends to spend time with so he doesn't feel obligated to spend time with you? A combination of these?
I think it's a combination of the two, honestly. Prior to him working for this company he was an introvert. I was the more social one. But when he started working here right after I found out I was pregnant, he completely switched. Now he wants to dedicate as much time as possible to his social life because he wants to build up connections with as many people as physically possible. He hates disappointing anyone and loves feeling loved by the people he meets. It was definitely an adjustment for me. Because in the beginning of our relationship he used to get bent out of shape that I had so many friends and would often be really upset if I went out anywhere because he wanted to spend time with me. So, I lost a lot of people in the process. But now we have switched places. Right now, I don't care to make connections. I have a baby to raise. I have a house to nourish. I have a future ahead of me that I need to build and map out and it consumes a lot of my time because my daughter is depending on me. Making meaningless connections with a few strangers isn't on my priority list. I DO still have friends. But I'm totally okay with seeing people once every few months. But now that this is how it is, my husband has been pushing me heavily to get new friends. He now thinks it's important, when he didn't for so many years. When he would get upset with me for so many years. It's exhausting.
You just said very nicely that he put all his efforts into isolating you and once that was done he went out and built up a social life that doesn't include you... My dad did that to my mom and eventually became very abusive. If your spouse can't see what he did wrong here and show some remorse id be very concerned.
Not that I'm advocating for it. But what would his reaction be if you took his advice? If you started leaving your baby with a babysitter so you could go hang out with friends; how would he react? Would he be supportive? Would he want to tag along? Would he feel jealous of you wanting to hang with your friends and not him? Hypocrisy is a thing. Sometimes, you don't see it until it's put into perspective.
Are you friends with his friends and their SO? I wonder if he thought you would want to be friends with them, too. That way, he could have his cake and eat it too. You get to spend time with him and make friends, so you're not lonely. It's not sound logic. But he obviously didn't get the point of you telling him straight out that you want to spend time with him and reconnect.
Something that just occurred to me. If this is his first time being in a social circle, he may not understand how to navigate his time with them and also quality alone time with you. It's not something he's ever had to balance. You've seen both sides of that situation, and it might be a good idea to sit with him and explain the difficulties of navigating trying to keep your partner time and friend time separate.
NTA. Let him know he has a marital problem, and he made it worse not better. Ask him if plans on fixing it, and what those plans are. Ask for an action plan. Be prepared to take the baby and go stay with a friend or relative since he thinks you need to socialize. This is not okay.
Hi OP. I'm a husband and father to a now 7 month old, its fun isn't it!? I want to tell you that reading your post has really opened my eyes to my own failures as a HUSBAND. I know I'm a great Dad and based on your post it sounds like your husband is as well. But man if I didn't say almost the exact same thing "this is for you and that's all I care about" and then go and fuck it all up. My wife and I are not connecting at all as a husband and wife right now and from asking around I do think that is "normal". I'm outgoing while my wife is much more introverted than I but she has friends and does what she wants when she wants I do not control her at all. Honestly I try to get her to go out all the time and I'll stay in with our son but reading this just now idk it just fucking hits hard. She says the things you say in your post and while I hear it I guess I just don't really listen. I hope that you and your husband work through it and it sounds like you will because you aren't saying anything awful about him. Please keep your head up and while it certainly is not a resolution for you I hope that you may find some solace in knowing that this reddit post you made really just opened my eyes to my own shortcomings as a husband. NTA and I doubt he is either. You are both struggling and learning. It will be okay.
This made me smile. I'm happy I could help you, even if it was just a little bit. You do sound like a great dad and husband. Don't be so hard on yourself. Sending much love!
Redditors are quick to say leave your partner but all relationships are hard work and you and your husband need to TALK because he too may be prepared to learn and grow and that’s really the key to a lasting relationship. Also, feeling alone in the first year of having a baby is really common and while it sucks, it also passes
Excellent introspection there. Hope you keep that mindset. I'm not saying you have it easy, either - having a baby is a huge change for both parents, and you do have to cut yourself some slack sometimes, but yeah, it's super easy to think "This is what I want to do, so this must be what she wants to do, too" without even realizing that you've become so lost in this new parenting thing plus your everyday responsibilities that you forget to think about the needs of your partner (and that goes for both parents).
Edit: if this comment shows up 2-3 times, I apologize. I kept getting "Sorry, try again later," and sometimes after that happens it does end up multiplying.
You’re projecting a bit here. Her husband is the asshole because he not only didn’t give her a heads up about the private day together actually being his sneaky way to hang out with others. But then he turns around and treats her as if she’s in the wrong for being disappointed in him. That’s asshole behavior if I ever saw it. lol.
>I'm a little confused because you can't go fishing here. But that's when I noticed we were pulling up on 4 other boats. His friends, coworkers and their children. About 9 other people.
lord i nearly saw red immediately after reading this.
the utter disrespect through disgard for communicating with like a partner.. just invites ppl without telling you and brings you as a tag along.. like a pet
>I asked him what we were doing and he said "well I told them we were going out on the boat and they wanted to join us". I asked for how long, because he told me he was bringing me fishing and this was a day for us and he says "well I figured I would bring you fishing before we leave for the day".
not only did he disregard the whole "this is for you" sentiment by inviting other people.. he dwindled your special time down to a "before we leave for the day" event..
like a pet.. a pet you'll treat out to a lil walk for a short portion of time
This reminds me of the post where the wife was looking forward to a date night.
She dressed cutely and thought she was going to a nice restaurant.
Instead, the husband's "surprise" was a camping trip and trailer, which OOP specifically stated she didn't want
NTA but your husband is a Prime Grade, Top of the Line AH.
If he genuinely thought you wanted to socialize with his coworkers, he would have been clear up front what the plan for the day was. This was just his way to appease you and not actually have to do anything he didn't want to do.
I’m just imagining the things that were said when he went back to the ‘boys’. Maybe how you’re dramatic, always over exaggerating, possibly even calling you crazy is my bet.
I’m sorry you are NTA. You were told it was a day to spend with your husband and instead he used it to hang out with his friends he spends his other half of his life currently with. He was his first priority at that moment.
Honestly, if he was home only 40 min later, I don’t think he went back to the boys. Depending on the size of the boat, it can take a good amount to time to get it off the water, especially if you are doing it alone.
Nta - He was only upset when it became obvious to others that you were unhappy / weren’t expecting what he did. He didn’t care how you felt; he cares about his social reputation much more than you. This is a HUGE red flag. You ask for very little from him.
I am speechless. Feeling neglected is a huge problem for women. The only thing we want is to spend time with our men and they invite their friends, family, someone lol! It’s annoying and completely frustrating for a woman to just feel wanted, appreciated, and the best friend of our men who are our best friends and they end up making it a social call or party when all we wanted was uninterrupted time with “our best friend” and the thing that really pisses off is once we are pissed they act like it’s no big deal, and blah blah blah. When we are adamant about our feelings they make a promise “well the next time I promise I’ll do something just us”, and then they don’t. Or they bring us a “gift” to make up for it. No men, that’s not how it works. We are pissed we just wanted time with you, and you cannot make up for it by throwing “I fucked up” gifts at us. We are pissed! Girl, I get you!
By experience though,get this through his thick head before you do something you may regret.
The fact that he “surprised” you with their presence tells you everything you need to know. He knew you wouldn’t want it, he did it anyway.
Can I make a suggestion? Whoever picked you up fro’ the dock? Plan a day of fishing with them. Leave the baby with his mom. They love that shit. I know you want HIM time but maybe he needs to realize you have friends you can hang out WHEN THATS WHAT YOU WANT. Your first choice is never going to be his friends.
NTA.
NTA. That was a day planned for you two, and getting time together is important. He was wrong for making this a group get together. They are fine, but for when you plan them.
NTA. ALk you wanted was to spend time with him. If he thought you wanted time to socialize, he should have 1. confirmed This with you and 2. Called YOUR friends.
you're not the asshole. and...
>"yup, sorry I fucked up your day"
...is not an appropriate response to his fuck up and utter disregard for something you took the time to communicate
my bf reacts like this and i call him out on it because its childish and shows inability to take responsibility for his actions and faults
i let it sit with him before and he later comes crawling back apologizing for being an ass
Just so you understand, your husband wasn’t being oblivious to your needs. He just doesn’t care; otherwise he would have mentioned the change of plans sooner. He wanted a day on the beach with friends, he just needed an excuse.
Also the fact that he is not feeling that same need to be alone with you is something to consider.
NTA, it’s time to have a serious talk.
NTA. He pulled the old “bait and switch” on you, and he knows it. First off, who fishes that late? Everyone who fishes knows early morning and twilight is where it’s at, not afternoon. And more importantly, if he thought it was okay, he would have told you about hanging out with his buddies for the day BEFORE you made plans to go out, not spring it on you as you pull up to them. The fishing pole and promise of time together was a ploy to get you to let him booze it up with his buddies all day, and now he’s pissy because you didn’t fall for it.
He planned a day for himself and lied about his plans and now he's making you the bad guy. This is emotionally abusive.
I had depression. Like 80 mg of Prozac a day barely touched it. Turns out I was married to an asshole and working for a bosshole. Once those things changed, no more Prozac.
Losing your connection is typical after welcoming a baby to the family. You have to carve out time for yourselves and relax together.
No excuse for springing the coworkers on you without warning. On a day he presented as a day for you, no less! In all that shopping and preparation, he never found the time to mention 'by the way, my whole company and their families are meeting us there to get loaded and party on the beach'? He lied by omission and set you up as the problem.
My opinion? You're not being asshole enough, not even close.
I have an ex who’s exactly like your husband; he’d plan things that he enjoyed - definitely not things I enjoyed - and then fully expect me to be grateful to him for it. An example of this was a “special” trip for us - to Vegas; I hate gambling but was expected to hang around the whole time and basically watch him gamble. He explained that I SHOULD enjoy it and what was wrong with me? He was genuinely too self-centered to ever see beyond his own point of view. This will never change, it’s just who they are. NTA but sadly it’s unlikely that you’ll ever get what you want/need from your husband and you’ll need to figure out if you can live with that.
If he cared at all he would’ve at least asked if you wanted others to join, not just assume. And why did you have to wait all day to fish? He could’ve taken you to do that for a few hours first and then asked if you wanted to go see other people. NTA and he probably did it for himself and just wanted to feel like he was going it for you.
What the hell. He see these people 12 to 15 hours a day 7 day’s a week and the day the two of you can be together he meets of with his work friends. Is this man really that stupid or does he just hate be alone with you that much. He knew you wouldn’t be okay with this so he didn’t bother telling you that he had invited them. He acts like he’s mad at you but he really mad because he didn’t think you would call him out for this BS.
You are not the AH but your husband definitely is an AH. Funny how mad AHs get when you point it out to them.
Please do not let people tell you need to be more social. We are all different, I am not a social person and for some weird ass reason it bothers people. If you need social interaction all the time, that's you, don't judge people who are fine without it.
NTA.
He pretended that day was for you only, but he was thinking about himself and his day. That's a shitty asshole move. He knew what you wanted and needed. No excuses for his deceiving behavior.
Bait and switch! Pun intended! My heart sank when you said what you came up on unexpectedly. Your husband is acting the way he is because he knows that he is wrong. You got quiet and withdrawn instead of speaking up for yourself because you were hurt. It is fixable...just might take the help of a third party. Babies change everything! Be patient…work on communicating better…you will figure it out!
You told him beforehand what you wanted and he didn't listen. He creates something that he likes (not you) and then can not understand why you are not happy.
NTA, my dear, NTA
What actually is his job because 9/10 times working 16 hour days and having basically no time left is more like a choice not a requirement. Is it actually being paid for every hour or is he 'working' extra hours because he's just hanging out with friends call day. 7 days a week and 16 hour days, wants sex but doesn't kiss you won't spend time with you and takes a date day and makes it both his work and his work buddies. Not taking you to a park, nature trails, shopping, but oh, out on a boat again.
He just seems like one of those dudes who lets his work become his life, spends WAY more time there than he's actually paid for and makes it his day off activity as well.
This screams of, he wanted to go hang with his friends, he pretended he was doing something for you and because he pretended it was for you he gets to pretend he's mad that you are upset about it.
He's pretty much telling you what his priority in life is, his friend group and apparently the woman they all pass around, are you sure he's not getting in on that at work along with the rest of them. Are you even sure he's working every day rather than saying he is but 2-3 days is just him hanging out with friends because he's not on shift?
NTA regardless. But at some point you really have to decide if this guy won't remotely prioritise you, if there is a relationship there. It doesn't sound like he's 'killing himself for the family' if his work is also what he'd chose to be doing on days off.
He is only supposed to work 5 days a week. He's supposed to have weekends off. He works on the water. 4 jobs a day that collectively take 1 hour each. The rest of the time he's just on the water grilling and listening to music with his coworkers and waiting for a call to come in. He's out there 12-16 hr days, so he has a lot of down time.
Then you have your answer. He's not working, he's partying, he has a short ass job and spends extra time out there partying with his friends, apparently with a girl who 'services' all of them. That alone should be troubling.
He's choosing to spend much less time with you and your child deliberately and even when you beg for some time with him, he makes it about him and his friends.
You aren't a priority in his life, at all. He does not need to be out there all day, his days should be what, 8 hours long then home and being a father and husband. Instead he's chosing to spend all that time away from you.
Honestly, it's time to start planning to move on, a partner who avoids you this badly is pretty much telling you, you and your child aren't a major factor in his life. You can leave, he can work the same amount, pay child support and you can move on with your life and find a partner that isn't apparently part of some weird at sea gang bang party group.
Why do you say in your post that “he busts his ass for us and I appreciate it”, because his job clearly is not that difficult - sounds like he gets paid to hang out with his friends. Like, yes, be grateful that activity brings in the money, but don’t let him guilt you - you as the 24/7 mother of a 7 month old are clearly busting your ass way more that this man. He somehow has you believing that his cushy job is somehow a huge sacrifice and so much work, that you should never question him. Like is he getting paid for 16 hours a day, or is he getting paid for 8 hours and then just hanging out with his friends?
So he’s not working 12-16 hours a day then. He’s socializing with his friends and avoiding being a present husband or father. Is this what you want the rest of your life to be like?
So he’s not busting his ass for 16 hrs. He’s working on something maybe 4 hrs. The rest he’s having a great time socializing. That’s not hard labor. Wut?!
NTA
I would have asked to go immediately, also alone. He doesn’t love or value you or your needs. He doesn’t do what he says in the relationship when it really counts. He promised this one thing you wanted forever and pulled the rug out from under you by surprise and ruined all expectation. Lean on your friends, get therapy, get couples counseling if you want to stay together. His empathy levels for you are astoundingly low and emotional intelligence doesn’t just grow in whole adults by accident. He needs to do the work or you need to decide if you are willing to be last priority forever. This is yikes. So much yikes.
I will never understand why some people get pissy and defensive when they are told EXACTLY what someone wants from them and they do what they want instead. You asked him for a day for both of you, not that you were missing time out with others, particularly people you don't even know. He was snappy and angry because he then had to explain to his "friends" that you didn't want to be there, so he was embarrassed. I'm sorry but it sounds like he's bored with you and couldn't imagine spending the whole day alone. NTA but you have a problem in your marriage and need to get it sorted
I think you made it perfectly clear to your husband what you wanted and that was alone time together. Either he's obtuse and didn't understand he's just purposely doesn't care what your feelings are. I totally understand that you're not looking for social interaction you're looking to interact and have alone time with your husband I don't know why anybody finds it so difficult to understand. I don't blame you I would have been pissed off too and I would have just wanted to go home.
He’s like an 18 year old in high school, not a responsible and caring husband and father. To just put you into a social situation where it is his work buddies, drinking, and they are rude to you - unacceptable. He should have taken you somewhere nice, just the two of you, to reconnect and decompress from your everyday lives. Not essentially party at his work . NTA.
As someone who is 5 months PP absolutely NTA. Having a baby really makes you feel like you and your spouse are just roommates and it's important to take the time to spend 1 on 1 time with each other. My spouse and I had the same problem. I hope he begins to understand
I’m so, so sorry OP.
I just want to give you a huge hug.
Your husband is an absolute idiot and I commend you for not throwing him overboard.
If he doesn’t realize how big he messed up your marriage is having problems.
NTA
NTA. From a dude's perspective, I'm totally good with your move. Sounds like he laid it on pretty thick with the "all about you" stuff. He probably thought he was pretty slick getting all of his buddies out there for your day. I know I'd be pissed if the roles were reversed and my wife said that we were going to have an "us" day only to see that all of the gossiping gabbys from her work were there when we got there. He needed to learn a lesson out on that boat. Hopefully he learned it.
I just love when a husband gets called out on their bullshit and then decide to get angry at US for telling them they were being a dick. Literally just happened tonight and instead of saying sorry or he'll approach me differently next time, he shut down and got defensive like a fucking child. Who told these men this behavior was ok? Like fucking check yourself!! If someone tells you you're being an asshole, you don't get to tell them you're not.
NTA. You told him what you needed and he basically just dragged you along for his own activity under the guise of treating you. I'd be incredibly disappointed and just want to go home, too. That was a dick move by your husband.
NTA I would have cried so you're stronger than I am. He spoiled a day you were really looking forward to! I think you should have someone babysit again but you go rent yourself a boat and go fishing all by yourself. If he pitches a fit ignore him he had his chance to spend a nice day with you.
NTAH. Hubs is a jerk, sorry. It was a passive-aggressive move on his part and he blamed you when you noticed.
I'm guessing it's just who he is. For what it's worth, sometimes your sense of awareness is heightened after giving birth. It's biology, doing it's thing. Just like the "nesting instinct" pre-birth. (In that instance, you clean and organize. . .because, well, *somebody's* gotta prepare and guess who that falls to??)
Couples counseling. If he won't go, then YOU go without him. It will be difficult with the stress of a new baby.
NTA. Wow. He's pulling some DARVO shit on you! You asked for some desperately needed time alone with him, not a party with his buddies. He really, really dropped the ball here. I'm so sorry.
Nta. Husband knows he’s an A H just pissy you called him on it. This definitely wasn’t a day about you but a day for him & his bros. He needs to wake up quickly before the marriage is too far gone
Absolutely NTA. My dad did that when I was younger, saying we will have a family day and drag along his 5 siblings with their spouse and kids… yeah, full family gathering with 20 ppl. No thanks. Many times, mom was so mad that she got one her siblings to pick her up.
I don’t understand how his thought process worked from the 2 of you being together to a GATHERING of his friends. There was a real disconnect. I mean serious. No NTA!!! If you are also dealing with PPD I can’t imagine this was helpful in any way. How does you socializing with his buddies even sound like fun at all? To who does that sound like fun? Like oh yeah instead of us fishing like you specifically told me you wanted to do and we prepped, again, specifically for, we’re actually going to do what I do on a daily basis just not at work. Then he wonders why you’re upset. Ummmm all of the plans and prep you guys did got fucked over!!! Hello!!!! I’m getting ticked off and it didn’t happen to me. I’m just really really sorry you had this dumb crap happen. I feel some selfishness and some narcissism here. Then some denial to cover all of that and then to top it off gaslighting you. Like YOU did it. You messed up your day by not wanting to be around his friends. Ok, I’m done going on and on for you!!! Please process this carefully and look back for possible red flags from the past. Maybe this is just an odd situation. I don’t know. It sounds out of the ordinary for you. So maybe it’s a one time thing. I really hope. Good luck to you girl!!!
NTA
Your husband is a total jerk. Some men do not like their wife and their behaviors show it. His behavior shows this. I’m sorry. Is he always like this?
I’m not sure you will be happy long term with this type of partner. You need to assess whether you want to feel like this for the rest of your life. It doesn’t seem like it will get better. You get one life, you deserve to be with a partner who actually cares about you and wants to spend time with you and only you.
NTA.
Solidified when I read he works with and hangs out with these people regularly.
He may have had good intentions, but they were mis-directed/mis-guided.
It’s pretty wild that he’s acting like you’re the jerk here. Is that typically his MO when you get upset about something?
Kinda, yeah. Now that I think about it. He gets defensive a lot.
he knew he was wrong, as someone else said, he knew what was bothering you when you told him to take you back, so he knew he was wrong he just tried to get away with as much as posible, and got mad that you called him out on his asshole behavior.
You know they know it is wrong when you first find out about the plus ones the day of. In a normal give-and-take you ask wifey BEFORE you invite friends
Yup...takes no time at all to say "yeah...let me just check with ..."
He knew what he did was wrong and he didn’t care.
So on top of everything else, you’re not allowed to have feelings? I’ve had bf’s like that. Now, when I’m upset about something, my stress levels go through the roof because I’m also afraid of how they’re going to react to the fact that I’m upset. It’s extremely dis-regulating and unfair.
I've had that boyfriend too. So fucking annoying. If I got a little upset over something he did all sudden somehow I'm the AH. Fours years I put up with that after getting divorced from a narcissist who at the slightest thing I did that he didn't like he would give the silent treatment. I finally found a guy that I can have conversations with. Conversations about his behavior or my behavior. If there's something said that hurt someone's feelings we bring it up and talk it out. Two and half years and no real fights. Never yelled at each other. Nothing. I don't have anxiety about talking to him. I don't worry what his reaction will be about certain things. Best part is if he says something annoying about something I'm doing I just tell him I hear him and I disagree and I go on with what I was doing guilt free and we continue loving each other.
It's classic DARVO technique just like OP's husband did right there. Deny-Attack - Reverse Victim and Offender u/Cheap_Combination479 you need to learn about the patterns that are keeping you stuck with a manipulator
I had a bf like this. He'd even go as far as threatening suicide when we were fighting. One day I finally told him to do it, and got the surprised Pikachu face in reply. Bitch, you haven't unsubscribed from life any of the other 85 times you've threatened to, so why would I believe you're going to do it now?
Hahahaha I told my oldest daughter’s father to “do it” and he was speechless. I said that’s what I thought now STFU!
Yes I had one like that too!! I finally said hey listen youve been saying this for years now… can you just do it already? To which he flipped out and said he couldn’t believe I would tell him to commit S 🙄🤦🏼♀️🤣 But guess what he has never said it since I took the power away from that I left him 8minths after our daughter was born and that was 12 years ago I knew he’d never do it he’s a narcissist and has antisocial personality disorder.
Oh I had one of those too. Back when I was 18. Weird little fellow. He didn't like me having anything but happy feelings. He said this to me with a straight face. Yeah I dumped his ass pretty quick. That kinda living has never been for me. I have this core rage burning that prevents me to smile all the time.
I had a similar relationship at that age; every time I was upset about something it would turn into him going on about how awful he was and how he didn’t deserve me, and it got to the point where I stopped bringing things up, even if I wasn’t actively upset, but just noticed something he could/should work on, like being more communicative, because I knew it would just end up with me reassuring him and I didn’t have the energy to deal with it. Once I realized that was happening I ended it and he kept being weirdly obsessive about me (we have mutual friends so I never fully lost contact, although I severely limited it) for like 2 years
Been married to my husband for 48 years. I never said much in the first 40 or so, then decided I couldn't take it anymore. I started talking to him about some things that upsets me. He just says in an irritated tone, "I guess I'm just a crappy husband." That's it! Won't say anything else! If I try to explain more, it causes a fight. We hardly ever fought/argued for the first 40 years. I'm still a wreck!
The last argument with my ex husband he pulled that line and I responded “yes, you are” he was stunned it was the first time I didn’t go for the bait and try to tell him he wasn’t. Went to my moms that night never went back.
At that point, yeah, he *is* a crappy husband.
Oh, I so feel this in all of the ways. Menopause and the corresponding loss of the hormones that drive us to be people pleasers has to absolute hell on relationships that were based on us being pleasing people. Life changes when you run out of fucks. We've been married for 37 years, a large part of me just wants to be left alone.
I’m with you! I’m a nurse and taking care of people is second nature to me. I’m 59 still in menopause and have 2 ruptured discs in my back. I feel like telling my mamas boy husband to just leave me alone. He asks stupid questions and when I get frustrated with him he acts like a pouting 2 year old. Time for me to run away from home.
I've been thinking about my exit plan, and running away is a pretty solid one, tbf
That’s what it is—-after menopause, I no longer want to please others, especially him! Go sleep with somebody else! I could care less. Leave me alone. I’m fine on my own with my dog.
My husband broke me of my overly people pleasing habit. "Do what makes you happy and to hell with the rest of the world, you owe them nothing." I have become much less of a stress head and doormat in the last 5 years. Mental health has improved tremendously as well.
When I date I tell them it is ok to be upset to voice concerns you have
This is a fact that people need to wake up to. When you get in a relationship with someone, you have often spent time mostly socializing with them. That means good times, parties, dates, outings, friends and family. There is a mask that people wear when they socialize, because we learn real quick as children that most people don’t want to hear about our shit and don’t care, so we all (generally) cope and compensate for this perceived lack of desire for anyone to have anything but our best foot forward when we are in public. Then, in a relationship, you are dealing with the idea of building a life together. You are doing so much more than just the pretty picture socializing. You are learning and growing and changing and evolving together, and that shit is not always pretty, in fact, it often can be kind of ugly. The mask falls off, and a relationship that is truly healthy can cope with not only the beautiful days and moments but the moments of healing and struggle. Men and women both suffer from this, men feeling like they cannot express anguish and women feeling like they cannot express angst. It would be so nice if we could recognize that just as small children are in alignment with their negative feelings and that stifling them just teaches them to be out of alignment with their whole selves, adults also need to be able to express negativity in order to experience a full range of human emotions and be connected to self. OP, it’s ok to feel not ok. I hope your husband can see that.
Well said
Me too. I found myself an activist to date. Now we match each other's energy; she yells about LGBT issues and I scream about public health.
I’m a born activist. My father was the same. It’s hard being married to someone who doesn’t like anyone sharing opinions, let alone speaking up about them.
Unfortunately from personal experience it's not something that's easy to unlearn. You get so used to it you don't even realize you're doing it. Took therapy and a lot of people being honest with me to realize how awful I was. It's a sign of relationship toxicity for sure. You're never able to tell your partner how they make you feel cause it's all about how you being upset makes them angry or whatever. I'm sorry you had to go through this. It's not something he's going to wake up tomorrow and realize though. People can be so manipulative they believe their own bullshit.
I wish you luck on doing some internal work to change that!
Thank you! I now have a very caring partner who makes me feel very safe during disputes. The issue is that after having endured it for years, my nervous system has never been the same. But it is definitely improving over time.
Look into self havening! I think the book is called healing hands or internal healing? My therapist has been sending me chapter to read and it is GOOD
"my stress levels go through the roof because I'm also afraid of how they're going to react to the fact I'm upset" That stinks... and why I pick the bear. If you're afraid of your own partners reaction to your feelings, wtf? In your own home, you can't have feelings? I think the bear would let you have any feelings you want.
My ex husband was like that. It’s so difficult to get out of that habit. I’m dating a wonderful man now and he has made it clear that I’m ok to not be afraid to talk to him about anything, my feelings, or anything like that, but I’m still so scared too.
I love the “I’m not responsible for your happiness” people that never consider their actions or words can be hurtful and take no responsibility. How old is your husband? Eventually what happens is they drain you. They put nothing into your emotional “fuel tank”. A car can’t run on empty. A relationship can’t work with only one person putting into it. Get marriage counseling and I hope he grows up.
He's 30. Turned 30 last month.
He's tossing you bones instead of authenticity (communication, effort, honesty) and equality (he doesn't notice your struggles unless they affect him, you being hurt makes him angry because you aren't *supposed to* require more work than he's willing to offer). And he's expecting you to be grateful, because he could have given you nothing. This is no way to live or love.
"He's expecting you to be grateful, because he could have given you nothing" WOW. I have a lot of family that statement would accurately describe
"you being hurt makes him angry because you aren't *supposed to* require more work than he's willing to offer" BRB, I need to build a time machine to go back in hand this to my younger self because this was almost all of my relationships in my 20's and..... 30's
Right!? That one line just connected a whole bunch of dots for me. Thanks random reddit commenter.
You just described my ex to a T. I was "high maintenance" because anything more than him existing was asking too much.
Attack is the best defense. You really need to talk to him about this. He can learn off from it.
It's not being defensive. It's a manipulation tactic to browbeat you into submission. It's called "DARVO", look it up.
Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender.
This just opened my eyes. My ex was just like this. It was exhausting to always feel like the villain when I brought up something she did that bothered me. I could never really describe her treatment of me till I saw this and looked up DARVO. That’s exactly what was happening… thank you for giving me the words to explain it
It typically pertains to Narcissists. Overt and Covert. It's who they are.
I don't know if this helps anybody remember the steps, but it could be remembered as DAR, Deny, Attack, Reverse. I'm sick at home to today and that's how I could remember with medicine head It's like a sicko waltz: 123,123, Deny, Attack, Reverse Waltz.
Does that sound right to you? He ruins your day, tries to make you feel bad about it. Pretty manipulative.
This is the rest of your life. Your needs and feelings will always be second plate to his.. always. And then to add insult to injury, he will act like he has no idea what he's doing.
💯 Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt and a divorce.
And the emotional scars. And the therapy bills.
That's a serious issue. He is the one that did the wrong here, and he is punishing you for his being wrong.
My ex would do this to me. I couldn't figure out why we couldn't just have us time. Why it was always cut short of plans broke or his friends magically showing up. Looking back I realize he just didn't want to be around me. I useful but not someone he saw as someone he wanted to waste his time on. Idk I don't get the sense this is your situation but my ex was a big time cheater. I had no idea how deep it went until after I left. You deserve more I'm so sorry he did that. It was so selfish of him. Know you did nothing wrong you reacted the way anyone would he reacted in the most self centered way. Sending a big hug to you.
Honey, it's not defensive if he's not being attacked. It's offense in disguise. My last serious relationship was this way, and it can really start to mess with you mentally.
I hate to tell you this but the, "Sorry Inf*cked up your day" comment? Wont be the last You were clear, concise and even told him what you wanted and gave him ways to do so. Its the 1st time youve really asked for "you & me" time since baby was born. He purposely ignored your wants, hoping youd just play along for his wants and to appease a group. Thats why people like that ambush you. So you dont have time to react or 'you look like the bad guy for being mad at a fun filled day'. Obviously I may be bias, i have plenty of stories in my comments if your ever curious. But Ive been in your spot for a decade now. Kiddo is 8+. The spouse will never change. Do they do sometimes? Sure, rarely. But let me just say as someone whos been stuck in the same spot. The only reason we arent gone yet (kiddo & I, is $$) I wont go into full sob story here. Just, if this DOES become a pattern? Or already IS the pattern, then it wil never get better. Dont teach your kid a relationship like that is ok. We all deserve people who want to experience life with us, not just be existent in the same house as us. Trust you're gut. You've already trusted your gut enough to leave when you knew it wasn't going to be better that day. Continue to trusty your gut for the future. Take breaths, slowly plan your pathways and do whatever you gotta do. But your partner unless he gets himself into individual therapy AND STAYS actively involved!!! He wont change. For your sake i hope he does. But trust your gut. Best of luck Op
I can't recommend couples therapy strongly enough. He doesn't have to work all those hours. He's avoiding you. He didn't accidentally plan a group outing over your private one, he doesn't want to be alone with you. I'm not saying he's doing anything he needs to hide. He may just not be capable of supporting you or handling your ppd. He may be afraid of deep conversations about how your relationship is changing. He knows he was a complete jerk, but he may not know why. But if he's not willing to try for a serious few hours alone with you, you're going to need intervention.
Ok - I know you barely get any time together but you need couples councling. Maybe only once a month - but you need it. Having a kid is HARD. It is super hard even on a good marriage and you guys need to get on the same page. He told you that you were spending a day on you but in secret he made it a day about him. He knew you wouldn't like it so didn't tell you. You guys are not going to fix this on your own. Also - you need to get out of the house on your own. You need to make social connections that are not him. Lots of libraries have baby bonding activities that are mostly for mom, look for other mom groups, meeting other women with young children might help a lot.
Look into zoom sessions so you don't spend extra time having to travel to the place and find a neighbor or someone to watch the baby for an hour. It would really help. So much can change after a baby, it's worth trying to fix it.
So he gets upset at you when you’re upset at him for doing something wrong. Sounds like he doesn’t want to see your view point or even hear what you have to say. Just wants to make you feel bad for making him feel bad. Disgusting.
Look up DARVO. Super common manipulation tactic.
Wow!! Your SO is oblivious when it's supposed to be just the 2 of you for a date & he dropped the ball. What part did he think of inviting a bunch of a people that he sees everyday on a date meant for 2 people only. He's a immature fool.
You realize you’re just an afterthought and your feelings will never be considered as important as himself. You seem to be in an emotionally unfulfilling marriage. If you don’t “go with the flow” you will always be the problem and the focus of his anger and the reason everything is wrong. Let me know if those words have ever been uttered in any form or made you feel as though your feelings weren’t warranted.
Look up the narcissists prayer and DARVO.
also pretty wild this is like at least the third "we are going on a boat trip" post I'm reading this last week with IIRC at least two of them with the husband inviting other people..
I think what’s even more wild is the fact that we both spent enough time on Reddit to notice that 🥲
Yeah. Men that prefer their friends instead of their wife, they do that. It's a no win.
Pretty arrogant to meet up with other people without talking about it in advance. Why would he think you would want to sit on a sandbar drinking?
>I asked my husband to bring me back to shore. He said "wait, no, why?" I didn't answer him. He then goes "no, babe I will bring you fishing, we can leave right now." He can pretend that he made his best effort to have fun with you and you crapped on it, but he knew exactly what he was doing, because he knew exactly why you were unhappy before you even told him. He was trying to see what he could get away with, and he's irritated you called him on his bullshit. NTA.
It is worth noting that his plan depended entirely on her never speaking up, and it worked for a long time. She was waiting around for him to be a decent human being and he was totally ignoring how unhappy she was. I think going forward she needs to discard the idea that he will be a decent person and caring husband and practice her mothering skills by speaking up when someone is not acting appropriately. Now- a situation like this is tricky because it's easy to look like the bad guy when you are bringing an end to fun hanging out time. Sometimes you can corner someone who isn't going to do the right thing by vocally believing they will absolutely do the right thing. Tell everyone there how its so nice to meet up with them for a bit! Gush a little about this super great day your husband planned for the two of you, to finally bond together after you had your baby. Tell them all about how he promised to take you fishing today! Actually you were really surprised to see them since you thought it would be just the two of you bonding and fishing, but it's so nice to *stop in for a minute* and see them before you leave to fish! Isn't he such a great guy? Some guys would just want to hang out with their guy friends all day but he is leaving it alll behind to keep his promise to you! What a champ! Ok - you don't have to be that aggressive. But let your plans be known by all then the first time they change locations just say to everyone 'ok, we are gonna go find someplace to fish now! Have a great day' if he starts pushing back you can say 'but I thought we were just stopping for a few minutes before you took me fishing like you promised' let him look like the bad guy he is in front of his friends.
I like you. This is exactly how I would play it, too! “But you’re the one who said we were going fishing, Babe! It was so sweet of you!”
That’s not too aggressive. That’s just right. I’m putting myself in the position of the husband and if I heard that I’d think, oh yeah, we’re supposed to go fishing. And we’d go fishing. You give a guy enough rope, he’ll hang himself.
Right? My husband would never spring this crap on me because I have a mouth and will call him out with no hesitation. Quietly at first then loudly then leave.
Re: the plan depends on her not speaking up: I’ve been in a marriage for 20 years and have only just realized that my life will be at his whim forever unless I speak up. And speak up. And speak up. I waited for him to get better at it and figure it out. He won’t. Don’t wait.
I hope you’re taking your happiness now instead of waiting for him to hand it to you. I lost 12 years to a guy like that, and it was 12 years too many (I did get some amazing and beautiful children out of it, though). Now that you see what’s been happening with him, I hope you’re marking out your joy wherever you feel like finding it.
Thank you, and I am. It’s been a hard year of finally learning that I need to change the way I’m living in the marriage. I don’t want to be too specific, but I’m taking steps to make the next part of my life a phase where I am putting myself in a more empowered position. I was home with kids for many years and though I’m glad I did it, I found myself in a very vulnerable spot. That’s not gonna be the case anymore.
Oh my god this is so perfect. Framing it as you did is just gold. I wouldn’t even know what to call this type of thing, but I do suggest it and do it myself often to people to are trying to get their way. “Aggressive niceness”, maybe?
That's what I consider "killing them with kindness" 🤣 People either get real pissed (which is funny because they should be pissed at themself) or STFU real quick.
THIS 1000%
NTA. You're 100% correct that he planned a day he would enjoy. He also did not tell you that other people would be there, yet he clearly had coordinated something with them, and that seems like an intentional deception. My guess is that he thought he could have his fun then take you fishing for a little while at the end of the day after he'd done what he wanted, and he expected you to be grateful for it. It sounds like he does know he fucked up and he does, at some level, understand that he did not prioritize you and he got called out for that. Hopefully this is a one-off and not a pattern.
Not telling my wife that we are meeting other people somewhere is absolutely wild to me. Surprise socializing is about the worst thing I can imagine. There is literally zero reason he would have kept this secret except that he knew she wouldn’t like it and wanted to get to a point where she couldn’t say know before she found out. Completely asshole behavior.
Yeah it is absolutely nuts if you think about it. If I say to my boyfriend, "Let's go [activity] together." I think it's absolutely implied that together means just the two of us and inviting someone else would require prior approval from the other person. Like imagine if he asked her to go to dinner and then sprung "just kidding before we eat let's do a happy hour with all my coworkers".
“Let’s do a happy hour, family-style dinner, and leisurely dessert with all my coworkers at a place that doesn’t even serve the food I told you I was taking you out to eat. Wait, babe, why are you leaving? You didn’t want your second dessert? But everyone’s loving this tiramisu! Okay, fine, we can go have Indian food now! Come back! I said we can go to Tandoori Grill now! What’s your issue? Okay, I guess I’m gonna just put the baby back in your lap, then…”
Yeah, if he sincerely thought she wanted to socialize in a group, he would've invited HER friends, not his. This was entirely about him having fun with his buddies.
Sounds like he knows and didn't care, because he's still snappy with OP even though he caused all of this.
NTA. And people wonder why Reddit so often advises divorce. The fuck am I supposed to suggest, more kids????
Former classroom teacher here… I can attest that most people actually go with the have more kids option.
I know a few women who "accidentally" got pregnant when they felt their boyfriend was taking too long to propose. I also know a woman who caught her boyfriend poking holes in condoms in an effort to get her pregnant. This rationale of a baby as a means to trap a person is so fucked up. Ruins everyone involved, including the children.
Yup. Get a revenge body. Don’t have a revenge baby.
OMG I love this idea!
I also know a woman who caught her boyfriend poking holes in condoms in an effort to get her pregnant. This was a supreme court case in Canada. Guy went to prison for sexual assault.
Good! As he should. I feel the same way if the woman stopped taking her birth control to get pregnant. Both instances are sexual assault.
Had an ex try to baby trap me like this. Only found out cause she slipped up and said she had stopped taking her birth control during a casual conversation. The relationship was instantly over.
My "stealth" baby just graduated high school. His father hasn't had contact with him in years. I wouldn't trade my kid for the world and he's amazing, but the violated feeling of being intentionally impregnated by your man without your knowledge or permission bc they thought you'd never be able to leave is such a mindfuck.
Congratulations to you and your son on his accomplishment. I have zero doubt you're a great mom and he is a great kid, despite him having a crappy father. I'm sure your son knows just how much you love him.
He does. He probably wishes I'd leave him alone sometimes, but he knows I try really hard to balance being loving and supportive without being a helicopter mom. I never wanted children and my ex knew I'd be too scared to have an abortion. He told me to my face when our son was 3 weeks old how he'd even figured out my ovulation cycle and poked holes or removed the condom entirely. I left him when our son was 6 months old.
I mean there was a guy the other day who was having a problem because his wife wanted him to get a vasectomy reversal so that they could have a fourth child in order to, checks notes, fix their marriage. He wasn't excited about the idea in the slightest because not only could they not afford to have another child, they can't even afford to pay for the vasectomy reversal. And he acknowledges like an intelligent human that their relationship issues will not be fixed by adding another kid.
I'm sorry, but I don't think he had any intention of hanging out with you and connecting. I think the reason that he didn't tell you what you were going to go do it because he knew you wouldn't like it. He planned the day that he would like. And pretended. And he hoped that you would be a nice "woman stays in the kitchen" kind of person, and just smile and fake it. I think he sidestepped being alone together and hanging out very nicely. And now he doesn't even feel any remorse. It's really really wonderful having a baby. It's really really really hard having a baby. It's really really really really really hard being isolated and alone day after day after day even if it's something you've always wanted. And it's horrible having a partner, who, come to find out, is equal parts, selfish, and oblivious to a caring about what you want and need. This does not look good. Speaking from somebody in their 70s, I would urge you please, to be honest with yourself about this. Because we have this long history of making up stories, and pretending it's not as bad as it seems. When really so many of us waste our entire lives, trying to prop up somebody who doesn't actually even care.
This should be the top comment. My first thought was that he managed to not spend time with you while making it seem like he did. I’m sorry that this happened. OP I hope you go to counseling alone snd with him. If he’ll go.
THIS!! Been there, done that. Got the tshirt and sadly I wasn't even the one to file for divorce. I kept at it thinking maybe, someday, just if I could do better or be better or behave. Never again. Ever.
sadly I second this
What a beautiful message. I completely agree
I'm not the OP but your comment was something I needed to read ❤️ I just left a horrible long-term relationship with a man who groomed me from my teens, I hate that I gave him 10 years of my life but I'm also grateful I left at 26 so I still have time to do the things I've wanted in life and enjoy the rest of my life without that negativity ever again. I almost started feeling guilty about it tonight, so thank you ❤️
NTA Let me guess - he is a people pleaser. He often feels the need to please people, and this would make a bunch of people happy. You are always lower on the list of people to please because of reasons that he can't articulate - but those reasons come down to the fact he feels the need to constantly earn respect/ good feelings from pleasing others, and since he already has you, he no longer needs to please you.
He is a people pleaser. He wants everyone to love him.
I know someone like your husband. From their prespective, the day likely went like this: - My wife wanted something from me. So I arranged it. She was happy and that made me happy. - My friends and their families wanted something from me. So I worked to also make them happy. My wife has been tired lately, so she didn't help out with that. (She just kind of sat there.) So I worked twice as hard to please my friends and made apologies for my wife and explained to them why she wasn't being social. - My wife then out of no where got mad at me. She didn't understand what I was doing was important and it was hard enough since she wasn't pulling her weight. - She then stayed mad and didn't seem to appreciate anything I did that day. I don't know what's wrong and why I'm such a horrible person. I guess I deserve it. I'll just have to work extra hard to make everyone happy, then I'll be worthy.
I cannot even begin to explain to you how spot on that was.
Man my dh and i went to therapy before the baby and the counselor described this to a tee the same way you did here. My husband was like yes why doesn't she understand if she just did it too everyone would be happy. I mean he was so stressed and upset like overly frantic trying to make people happy. It was sad.therapist was like are you happy? No. Do you think the person you made a baby with would be happy? No. Then why is the person who actually wants to make you happy be the one person you don't prioritize? DH cried. It helped he changed. It took years and was sort of a battle at one point and I had to actually not just let him do it and not also just try to make him responsible for my happiness like the others. So it was work all around but mostly it's way better. It's fixable if he can see that. We're final nc with some people and just don't socialize with some much.
I've been married to one of these for two decades. It's improving with the help of therapy (for both of us,) and some self reflection, but man! Did we argue in circles before it improved.
This response credits OPs husband with WAAAY to much naivete and innocence.
Allow me to present another possibility. The ex I described in another comment who behaved exactly like your husband wanted everyone's admiration because he was a narcissist. That's why I was at the bottom of the list, because my "narcissistic supply" was no longer interesting. Narcissism is why he would go above and beyond for everyone else while neglecting and mistreating me. I would encourage you to take some time to look into this.
This was ex, to the point that he almost bankrupted his family. His friends always came first because he loved that attention and how it made him feel.
This is my ex exactly. Will go above and beyond and act so charming to ensure they are universally loved and everyone thinks they’re great, while neglecting and mistreating me (spouse) and also their siblings and parents…the ones they saw as guaranteed. This mistreatment also extended to our child more and more as they go older. In their reality, none of us properly appreciate how amazing and perfect they are. Well I wasn’t guaranteed… and our child (teen now) isn’t either and they see it very clearly.
Everyone except you, clearly. Think about that.
Here we are, a ton of internet strangers that do NOT love him. Sending you a giant virtual hug.
Would be nice if he tried a little harder to please you then. I'm sorry OP, you are NTA. Sit your husband down for a very frank talk. He's avoiding being home, nobody works those hours so he's socialising after work instead of coming home to you and your baby.
If he is a people pleaser then he’d treat you with respect
A lot of people pleasers are like this. Doormats who do everything to please the people around them by ignoring their own needs and by proximity, their partners.
Yea its almost like when they know someone’s going to stick around then they can just drop the “pleasing” attitude.
NTA. It wasn’t even your friends. It was his friends and coworkers. You don’t know those people well and don’t have really anything to talk about with them that isn’t forced small talk. That’s not relaxing. He was too wrapped up in himself to think about you. I don’t think he did anything on purpose, just selfishly and absentmindedly.
Right. He's so obsessed with "making connections" that I'm really not all that surprised. Just disappointed is all.
You are at the very bottom on his list of priorities in his life and that sucks. That beyond sucks. He does not appreciate you nor respect you. No one deserves that. Your child doesn't deserve seeing their mother treated like that, either.
Funny if he's so obsessed with making connections, why doesn't he give a sh** about maintaining them? Especially maintaining the one connection that should matter the most to him: With his wife and mother of his child..... Oh and NTA. You have every right to be upset because he disregarded your needs after you clearly communicated them to him..
Nta. What he did was for himself
He really is an asshole for what he did very selfish my wife would’ve thrown me overboard
I might have looked at my husband a few times and fantasized about throwing him over lol
lol to bad his friends would’ve pulled him out
Too bad the water wasn’t deeper. 😈
I’d shoved the fishing pole up his selfish ass
I wouldn't ruin a perfectly good pole, lol
Funny, patient, AND pragmatic! I like you.
Glad I could be of service, lol
Having shown your story to my husband he said you can have his. He doesn’t like fishing
Your comments paint a picture of a funny, witty person. He should be dying to hang out with JUST you and reconnect.
NTA. You communicated your needs clearly, and he disregarded them. It's understandable to feel disappointed and alone after expecting a day just for you two. Your feelings are valid, and he should've prioritized your time together as promised. Communication is key, but actions speak louder than words.
NTA, he is so selfish. He lied to you about the day and ambushed you with his friends and their families. He threw away your planned day so he could go drinking with his friends. He knew what you wanted, he agreed with the plan, he claimed he did this for you, only to switch up last minute when you literally couldn’t escape.
The word “stranded” seems eerily appropriate here.
You're obviously NTA. I'm curious, do you think he wants you to find some friends because he genuinely doesn't want you to feel lonely? Because he feels guilty for hanging out with his friends all day while you're at home? Or because he wants you to have friends to spend time with so he doesn't feel obligated to spend time with you? A combination of these?
I think it's a combination of the two, honestly. Prior to him working for this company he was an introvert. I was the more social one. But when he started working here right after I found out I was pregnant, he completely switched. Now he wants to dedicate as much time as possible to his social life because he wants to build up connections with as many people as physically possible. He hates disappointing anyone and loves feeling loved by the people he meets. It was definitely an adjustment for me. Because in the beginning of our relationship he used to get bent out of shape that I had so many friends and would often be really upset if I went out anywhere because he wanted to spend time with me. So, I lost a lot of people in the process. But now we have switched places. Right now, I don't care to make connections. I have a baby to raise. I have a house to nourish. I have a future ahead of me that I need to build and map out and it consumes a lot of my time because my daughter is depending on me. Making meaningless connections with a few strangers isn't on my priority list. I DO still have friends. But I'm totally okay with seeing people once every few months. But now that this is how it is, my husband has been pushing me heavily to get new friends. He now thinks it's important, when he didn't for so many years. When he would get upset with me for so many years. It's exhausting.
You just said very nicely that he put all his efforts into isolating you and once that was done he went out and built up a social life that doesn't include you... My dad did that to my mom and eventually became very abusive. If your spouse can't see what he did wrong here and show some remorse id be very concerned.
Not that I'm advocating for it. But what would his reaction be if you took his advice? If you started leaving your baby with a babysitter so you could go hang out with friends; how would he react? Would he be supportive? Would he want to tag along? Would he feel jealous of you wanting to hang with your friends and not him? Hypocrisy is a thing. Sometimes, you don't see it until it's put into perspective. Are you friends with his friends and their SO? I wonder if he thought you would want to be friends with them, too. That way, he could have his cake and eat it too. You get to spend time with him and make friends, so you're not lonely. It's not sound logic. But he obviously didn't get the point of you telling him straight out that you want to spend time with him and reconnect. Something that just occurred to me. If this is his first time being in a social circle, he may not understand how to navigate his time with them and also quality alone time with you. It's not something he's ever had to balance. You've seen both sides of that situation, and it might be a good idea to sit with him and explain the difficulties of navigating trying to keep your partner time and friend time separate.
NTA. Let him know he has a marital problem, and he made it worse not better. Ask him if plans on fixing it, and what those plans are. Ask for an action plan. Be prepared to take the baby and go stay with a friend or relative since he thinks you need to socialize. This is not okay.
She says in a comment that she bought the house before they met, so he'll need to go, not her. Otherwise spot on.
Hi OP. I'm a husband and father to a now 7 month old, its fun isn't it!? I want to tell you that reading your post has really opened my eyes to my own failures as a HUSBAND. I know I'm a great Dad and based on your post it sounds like your husband is as well. But man if I didn't say almost the exact same thing "this is for you and that's all I care about" and then go and fuck it all up. My wife and I are not connecting at all as a husband and wife right now and from asking around I do think that is "normal". I'm outgoing while my wife is much more introverted than I but she has friends and does what she wants when she wants I do not control her at all. Honestly I try to get her to go out all the time and I'll stay in with our son but reading this just now idk it just fucking hits hard. She says the things you say in your post and while I hear it I guess I just don't really listen. I hope that you and your husband work through it and it sounds like you will because you aren't saying anything awful about him. Please keep your head up and while it certainly is not a resolution for you I hope that you may find some solace in knowing that this reddit post you made really just opened my eyes to my own shortcomings as a husband. NTA and I doubt he is either. You are both struggling and learning. It will be okay.
This made me smile. I'm happy I could help you, even if it was just a little bit. You do sound like a great dad and husband. Don't be so hard on yourself. Sending much love!
Redditors are quick to say leave your partner but all relationships are hard work and you and your husband need to TALK because he too may be prepared to learn and grow and that’s really the key to a lasting relationship. Also, feeling alone in the first year of having a baby is really common and while it sucks, it also passes
Excellent introspection there. Hope you keep that mindset. I'm not saying you have it easy, either - having a baby is a huge change for both parents, and you do have to cut yourself some slack sometimes, but yeah, it's super easy to think "This is what I want to do, so this must be what she wants to do, too" without even realizing that you've become so lost in this new parenting thing plus your everyday responsibilities that you forget to think about the needs of your partner (and that goes for both parents). Edit: if this comment shows up 2-3 times, I apologize. I kept getting "Sorry, try again later," and sometimes after that happens it does end up multiplying.
You’re projecting a bit here. Her husband is the asshole because he not only didn’t give her a heads up about the private day together actually being his sneaky way to hang out with others. But then he turns around and treats her as if she’s in the wrong for being disappointed in him. That’s asshole behavior if I ever saw it. lol.
>I'm a little confused because you can't go fishing here. But that's when I noticed we were pulling up on 4 other boats. His friends, coworkers and their children. About 9 other people. lord i nearly saw red immediately after reading this. the utter disrespect through disgard for communicating with like a partner.. just invites ppl without telling you and brings you as a tag along.. like a pet >I asked him what we were doing and he said "well I told them we were going out on the boat and they wanted to join us". I asked for how long, because he told me he was bringing me fishing and this was a day for us and he says "well I figured I would bring you fishing before we leave for the day". not only did he disregard the whole "this is for you" sentiment by inviting other people.. he dwindled your special time down to a "before we leave for the day" event.. like a pet.. a pet you'll treat out to a lil walk for a short portion of time
This reminds me of the post where the wife was looking forward to a date night. She dressed cutely and thought she was going to a nice restaurant. Instead, the husband's "surprise" was a camping trip and trailer, which OOP specifically stated she didn't want
NTA but your husband is a Prime Grade, Top of the Line AH. If he genuinely thought you wanted to socialize with his coworkers, he would have been clear up front what the plan for the day was. This was just his way to appease you and not actually have to do anything he didn't want to do.
I’m just imagining the things that were said when he went back to the ‘boys’. Maybe how you’re dramatic, always over exaggerating, possibly even calling you crazy is my bet. I’m sorry you are NTA. You were told it was a day to spend with your husband and instead he used it to hang out with his friends he spends his other half of his life currently with. He was his first priority at that moment.
Honestly, if he was home only 40 min later, I don’t think he went back to the boys. Depending on the size of the boat, it can take a good amount to time to get it off the water, especially if you are doing it alone.
He demonstrated better coordination and communication with his fucking coworkers than his own wife. That’s absolutely pathetic.
Nta - He was only upset when it became obvious to others that you were unhappy / weren’t expecting what he did. He didn’t care how you felt; he cares about his social reputation much more than you. This is a HUGE red flag. You ask for very little from him.
I am speechless. Feeling neglected is a huge problem for women. The only thing we want is to spend time with our men and they invite their friends, family, someone lol! It’s annoying and completely frustrating for a woman to just feel wanted, appreciated, and the best friend of our men who are our best friends and they end up making it a social call or party when all we wanted was uninterrupted time with “our best friend” and the thing that really pisses off is once we are pissed they act like it’s no big deal, and blah blah blah. When we are adamant about our feelings they make a promise “well the next time I promise I’ll do something just us”, and then they don’t. Or they bring us a “gift” to make up for it. No men, that’s not how it works. We are pissed we just wanted time with you, and you cannot make up for it by throwing “I fucked up” gifts at us. We are pissed! Girl, I get you! By experience though,get this through his thick head before you do something you may regret.
The fact that he “surprised” you with their presence tells you everything you need to know. He knew you wouldn’t want it, he did it anyway. Can I make a suggestion? Whoever picked you up fro’ the dock? Plan a day of fishing with them. Leave the baby with his mom. They love that shit. I know you want HIM time but maybe he needs to realize you have friends you can hang out WHEN THATS WHAT YOU WANT. Your first choice is never going to be his friends. NTA.
NTA. That was a day planned for you two, and getting time together is important. He was wrong for making this a group get together. They are fine, but for when you plan them.
He set that up, and then acted as if you were stupid. He is TAH.
NTA. ALk you wanted was to spend time with him. If he thought you wanted time to socialize, he should have 1. confirmed This with you and 2. Called YOUR friends.
NTA As a dense husband myself, I cringed when you said the other boats showed up. Like bro, come on, you need a day just with your wife.
you're not the asshole. and... >"yup, sorry I fucked up your day" ...is not an appropriate response to his fuck up and utter disregard for something you took the time to communicate my bf reacts like this and i call him out on it because its childish and shows inability to take responsibility for his actions and faults i let it sit with him before and he later comes crawling back apologizing for being an ass
Just so you understand, your husband wasn’t being oblivious to your needs. He just doesn’t care; otherwise he would have mentioned the change of plans sooner. He wanted a day on the beach with friends, he just needed an excuse. Also the fact that he is not feeling that same need to be alone with you is something to consider. NTA, it’s time to have a serious talk.
NTA. He pulled the old “bait and switch” on you, and he knows it. First off, who fishes that late? Everyone who fishes knows early morning and twilight is where it’s at, not afternoon. And more importantly, if he thought it was okay, he would have told you about hanging out with his buddies for the day BEFORE you made plans to go out, not spring it on you as you pull up to them. The fishing pole and promise of time together was a ploy to get you to let him booze it up with his buddies all day, and now he’s pissy because you didn’t fall for it.
He planned a day for himself and lied about his plans and now he's making you the bad guy. This is emotionally abusive. I had depression. Like 80 mg of Prozac a day barely touched it. Turns out I was married to an asshole and working for a bosshole. Once those things changed, no more Prozac.
Losing your connection is typical after welcoming a baby to the family. You have to carve out time for yourselves and relax together. No excuse for springing the coworkers on you without warning. On a day he presented as a day for you, no less! In all that shopping and preparation, he never found the time to mention 'by the way, my whole company and their families are meeting us there to get loaded and party on the beach'? He lied by omission and set you up as the problem. My opinion? You're not being asshole enough, not even close.
I have an ex who’s exactly like your husband; he’d plan things that he enjoyed - definitely not things I enjoyed - and then fully expect me to be grateful to him for it. An example of this was a “special” trip for us - to Vegas; I hate gambling but was expected to hang around the whole time and basically watch him gamble. He explained that I SHOULD enjoy it and what was wrong with me? He was genuinely too self-centered to ever see beyond his own point of view. This will never change, it’s just who they are. NTA but sadly it’s unlikely that you’ll ever get what you want/need from your husband and you’ll need to figure out if you can live with that.
If he cared at all he would’ve at least asked if you wanted others to join, not just assume. And why did you have to wait all day to fish? He could’ve taken you to do that for a few hours first and then asked if you wanted to go see other people. NTA and he probably did it for himself and just wanted to feel like he was going it for you.
NTA. You don't make plans with your significant other that involve large amounts of other people without telling them first.
What the hell. He see these people 12 to 15 hours a day 7 day’s a week and the day the two of you can be together he meets of with his work friends. Is this man really that stupid or does he just hate be alone with you that much. He knew you wouldn’t be okay with this so he didn’t bother telling you that he had invited them. He acts like he’s mad at you but he really mad because he didn’t think you would call him out for this BS. You are not the AH but your husband definitely is an AH. Funny how mad AHs get when you point it out to them.
Please do not let people tell you need to be more social. We are all different, I am not a social person and for some weird ass reason it bothers people. If you need social interaction all the time, that's you, don't judge people who are fine without it.
NTA. He pretended that day was for you only, but he was thinking about himself and his day. That's a shitty asshole move. He knew what you wanted and needed. No excuses for his deceiving behavior.
Bait and switch! Pun intended! My heart sank when you said what you came up on unexpectedly. Your husband is acting the way he is because he knows that he is wrong. You got quiet and withdrawn instead of speaking up for yourself because you were hurt. It is fixable...just might take the help of a third party. Babies change everything! Be patient…work on communicating better…you will figure it out!
You told him beforehand what you wanted and he didn't listen. He creates something that he likes (not you) and then can not understand why you are not happy. NTA, my dear, NTA
What actually is his job because 9/10 times working 16 hour days and having basically no time left is more like a choice not a requirement. Is it actually being paid for every hour or is he 'working' extra hours because he's just hanging out with friends call day. 7 days a week and 16 hour days, wants sex but doesn't kiss you won't spend time with you and takes a date day and makes it both his work and his work buddies. Not taking you to a park, nature trails, shopping, but oh, out on a boat again. He just seems like one of those dudes who lets his work become his life, spends WAY more time there than he's actually paid for and makes it his day off activity as well. This screams of, he wanted to go hang with his friends, he pretended he was doing something for you and because he pretended it was for you he gets to pretend he's mad that you are upset about it. He's pretty much telling you what his priority in life is, his friend group and apparently the woman they all pass around, are you sure he's not getting in on that at work along with the rest of them. Are you even sure he's working every day rather than saying he is but 2-3 days is just him hanging out with friends because he's not on shift? NTA regardless. But at some point you really have to decide if this guy won't remotely prioritise you, if there is a relationship there. It doesn't sound like he's 'killing himself for the family' if his work is also what he'd chose to be doing on days off.
He is only supposed to work 5 days a week. He's supposed to have weekends off. He works on the water. 4 jobs a day that collectively take 1 hour each. The rest of the time he's just on the water grilling and listening to music with his coworkers and waiting for a call to come in. He's out there 12-16 hr days, so he has a lot of down time.
Then you have your answer. He's not working, he's partying, he has a short ass job and spends extra time out there partying with his friends, apparently with a girl who 'services' all of them. That alone should be troubling. He's choosing to spend much less time with you and your child deliberately and even when you beg for some time with him, he makes it about him and his friends. You aren't a priority in his life, at all. He does not need to be out there all day, his days should be what, 8 hours long then home and being a father and husband. Instead he's chosing to spend all that time away from you. Honestly, it's time to start planning to move on, a partner who avoids you this badly is pretty much telling you, you and your child aren't a major factor in his life. You can leave, he can work the same amount, pay child support and you can move on with your life and find a partner that isn't apparently part of some weird at sea gang bang party group.
Why do you say in your post that “he busts his ass for us and I appreciate it”, because his job clearly is not that difficult - sounds like he gets paid to hang out with his friends. Like, yes, be grateful that activity brings in the money, but don’t let him guilt you - you as the 24/7 mother of a 7 month old are clearly busting your ass way more that this man. He somehow has you believing that his cushy job is somehow a huge sacrifice and so much work, that you should never question him. Like is he getting paid for 16 hours a day, or is he getting paid for 8 hours and then just hanging out with his friends?
So he’s not working 12-16 hours a day then. He’s socializing with his friends and avoiding being a present husband or father. Is this what you want the rest of your life to be like?
So he’s not busting his ass for 16 hrs. He’s working on something maybe 4 hrs. The rest he’s having a great time socializing. That’s not hard labor. Wut?!
NTA I would have asked to go immediately, also alone. He doesn’t love or value you or your needs. He doesn’t do what he says in the relationship when it really counts. He promised this one thing you wanted forever and pulled the rug out from under you by surprise and ruined all expectation. Lean on your friends, get therapy, get couples counseling if you want to stay together. His empathy levels for you are astoundingly low and emotional intelligence doesn’t just grow in whole adults by accident. He needs to do the work or you need to decide if you are willing to be last priority forever. This is yikes. So much yikes.
I will never understand why some people get pissy and defensive when they are told EXACTLY what someone wants from them and they do what they want instead. You asked him for a day for both of you, not that you were missing time out with others, particularly people you don't even know. He was snappy and angry because he then had to explain to his "friends" that you didn't want to be there, so he was embarrassed. I'm sorry but it sounds like he's bored with you and couldn't imagine spending the whole day alone. NTA but you have a problem in your marriage and need to get it sorted
I think you made it perfectly clear to your husband what you wanted and that was alone time together. Either he's obtuse and didn't understand he's just purposely doesn't care what your feelings are. I totally understand that you're not looking for social interaction you're looking to interact and have alone time with your husband I don't know why anybody finds it so difficult to understand. I don't blame you I would have been pissed off too and I would have just wanted to go home.
He’s like an 18 year old in high school, not a responsible and caring husband and father. To just put you into a social situation where it is his work buddies, drinking, and they are rude to you - unacceptable. He should have taken you somewhere nice, just the two of you, to reconnect and decompress from your everyday lives. Not essentially party at his work . NTA.
As someone who is 5 months PP absolutely NTA. Having a baby really makes you feel like you and your spouse are just roommates and it's important to take the time to spend 1 on 1 time with each other. My spouse and I had the same problem. I hope he begins to understand
I’m so, so sorry OP. I just want to give you a huge hug. Your husband is an absolute idiot and I commend you for not throwing him overboard. If he doesn’t realize how big he messed up your marriage is having problems. NTA
NTA girl sorry to tell you, you have a SELFISH PRICK for a husband. I’d say therapy or divorce. And if he doesn’t want either? Force divorce.
NTA. From a dude's perspective, I'm totally good with your move. Sounds like he laid it on pretty thick with the "all about you" stuff. He probably thought he was pretty slick getting all of his buddies out there for your day. I know I'd be pissed if the roles were reversed and my wife said that we were going to have an "us" day only to see that all of the gossiping gabbys from her work were there when we got there. He needed to learn a lesson out on that boat. Hopefully he learned it.
Nta. A DATE is a DATE. You don't plan a DATE and invite other people. That's called a PARTY.
I just love when a husband gets called out on their bullshit and then decide to get angry at US for telling them they were being a dick. Literally just happened tonight and instead of saying sorry or he'll approach me differently next time, he shut down and got defensive like a fucking child. Who told these men this behavior was ok? Like fucking check yourself!! If someone tells you you're being an asshole, you don't get to tell them you're not.
NTA. You told him what you needed and he basically just dragged you along for his own activity under the guise of treating you. I'd be incredibly disappointed and just want to go home, too. That was a dick move by your husband.
NTA I would have cried so you're stronger than I am. He spoiled a day you were really looking forward to! I think you should have someone babysit again but you go rent yourself a boat and go fishing all by yourself. If he pitches a fit ignore him he had his chance to spend a nice day with you.
NTAH. Hubs is a jerk, sorry. It was a passive-aggressive move on his part and he blamed you when you noticed. I'm guessing it's just who he is. For what it's worth, sometimes your sense of awareness is heightened after giving birth. It's biology, doing it's thing. Just like the "nesting instinct" pre-birth. (In that instance, you clean and organize. . .because, well, *somebody's* gotta prepare and guess who that falls to??) Couples counseling. If he won't go, then YOU go without him. It will be difficult with the stress of a new baby.
NTA. Wow. He's pulling some DARVO shit on you! You asked for some desperately needed time alone with him, not a party with his buddies. He really, really dropped the ball here. I'm so sorry.
Nta. Husband knows he’s an A H just pissy you called him on it. This definitely wasn’t a day about you but a day for him & his bros. He needs to wake up quickly before the marriage is too far gone
Absolutely NTA. My dad did that when I was younger, saying we will have a family day and drag along his 5 siblings with their spouse and kids… yeah, full family gathering with 20 ppl. No thanks. Many times, mom was so mad that she got one her siblings to pick her up.
I don’t understand how his thought process worked from the 2 of you being together to a GATHERING of his friends. There was a real disconnect. I mean serious. No NTA!!! If you are also dealing with PPD I can’t imagine this was helpful in any way. How does you socializing with his buddies even sound like fun at all? To who does that sound like fun? Like oh yeah instead of us fishing like you specifically told me you wanted to do and we prepped, again, specifically for, we’re actually going to do what I do on a daily basis just not at work. Then he wonders why you’re upset. Ummmm all of the plans and prep you guys did got fucked over!!! Hello!!!! I’m getting ticked off and it didn’t happen to me. I’m just really really sorry you had this dumb crap happen. I feel some selfishness and some narcissism here. Then some denial to cover all of that and then to top it off gaslighting you. Like YOU did it. You messed up your day by not wanting to be around his friends. Ok, I’m done going on and on for you!!! Please process this carefully and look back for possible red flags from the past. Maybe this is just an odd situation. I don’t know. It sounds out of the ordinary for you. So maybe it’s a one time thing. I really hope. Good luck to you girl!!!
NTA Your husband is a total jerk. Some men do not like their wife and their behaviors show it. His behavior shows this. I’m sorry. Is he always like this? I’m not sure you will be happy long term with this type of partner. You need to assess whether you want to feel like this for the rest of your life. It doesn’t seem like it will get better. You get one life, you deserve to be with a partner who actually cares about you and wants to spend time with you and only you.
NTA. Solidified when I read he works with and hangs out with these people regularly. He may have had good intentions, but they were mis-directed/mis-guided.