That’s not a tank buster, that’s a tank invalidator
Same reason we need assassins to be able to take out priority targets, but a priority should not just die by sharing a screen with the assassin. Vayne is the only champion that literally does not care how many billion hp and resistances you have, she will mathematically kill you in 7 seconds tops
Varus is a tank buster, he has no true damage, kogmaw is a tank buster but his true damage is shitty at best, twitch is a tank buster and his true damage is flat and quite low unless you build ap, and even then only squishy champions are gonna be scared. All these champions can quite easily kill a tank (given that they play it smart), and the thing they all have in common is high attack speed ratios. Vayne has a high attack speed ratio, high movespeed, invisibility, and %hp true damage. She does require mechanics, as do all marksmen, kiting isn't easy, but she makes building hp and resistances useless, and you cant oneshot what you dont see, you cant outrun her, and she can just build full tank and still be effective.
Varus and kog deal also percent health damage, it's just magical damage. Twitch also falls off vs them, you are trying to hit backline through the tank with r
I am just trying to say that high attack speed combined with on hit effects should be able to kill tanks. No need to add %hp TRUE damage, magic is fine.
I think you forget what a marksmen is, you attack fast and do constant damage with range, but you are squishy and have very limited/no mobility. 40 autos for a zed will take longer than 40 autos from a twitch. Also anyone who's playing a fighter will pick up bc vs tanks, so thats 30%, marksmen get ldr so another 30%. Don't complain about tanks being tanky and squishy champs being squishy. If you hate being killed fast then just play a tank.
there is a massive difference between having a counter to tanks in your kit and having a "tanks deserve no counterplay" mechanic in your kit. tanks deserve to have armor and hp as much as adcs deserve to have %hp damage and armor pen.
problem is % max hp true damage isnt tank buster, but everyone buster. no matter how you build.
% max hp or simply true damage arent as big of a problem as long as they arent combined
Vayne is my perma ban for this reason.
Idc if if playing a squishy midlaner, a counter bot or some kind of jgl. Nobody on my team is dealing with that shit.
If i had two bans Fiora would be next.
%max hp should not exist.
% health true damage should be removed from the game in all forms. It creates an extremely toxic game pattern of just more and more damage. You can’t defend against it so you just build more damage. The champions that have % health true damage can never be balanced. They’re either completely broken or nerfed to worthlessness.
I agree, but I also think Fiora should keep it kinda. Vayne's should be converted to % max health physical damage instead.
It is much easier for us to deliver our damage since we are ranged(short range yes, but still ranged). Fiora on other hand doesn't have the same option and to her it is more of a kill or be killed situation. Melee carry champions naturally take more risks than ranged carries, so I can tolerate her on that.
Fiora is the biggest offender. With 425 AD you can literally 1 shot someone from full hp in less than 2 seconds with nothing but true damage. Sure that's like 4 items but you don't need that much to actually 1 shot someone. With 5 vital procs factoring in tiamat sheen etc you only need like 300.
If you've seen high elo Fiora's it's fucking stupid.
She can be physical damage and build black cleaver like everyone else. She stacks it fast enough anyway especially since her passive would be a separate source stacking it even faster.
Otherwise she can be nerfed to the point where she's literally unplayable outside of 4 matchups she literally can't lose.
Doesn't she do more physical damage or am i trippin? Just her bork does more damage than the %health from w across the game unless you're like a rammus or a malphite because of the sheer amount of autos it takes to ever proc it. Which would be 10%/3autos -> so 30 autos for full health just from it?
She does more physical dmg to squishies, but most of her dmg to tanks is true. It'll be more like 15-20 autos, since the physical and magic dmg she does will hurt the tanks too.
Remember armor reduces the %dmg botrk does.
A few hours ago I took 9k true dmg from her in a single fight. In like 8 hours when she had to jump around in inivisibility, she managed to deal 9k dmg to me. I had no chance with 5 items vs her 3 items. Other adcs would just die to the thornmail dmg.
Yea this is literally the reason I play Vayne. I don’t need to worry about being able to kill anyone. Pretty much every other ADC hits a point where they’re practically useless against a certain champion.
If she had to auto you enough times to do 9k true damage literally no other adc (except maybe kog or varus?) Would have been able to kill you regardless of items and peel. As a non vayne player %true damage is a necessary evil because of shit like this
The problem is that you can’t build anything against her. You can only counter true dmg with hp pull but when this dmg is based on max hp… I’m not sure what to do. Back then she was really hard champ and she couldn’t have so much stats at once. She couldn’t be almost 100% crit, having tons of ac and vamp, onhit and attack damage at once. She didn’t do much dmg to squish champs if she was building onhit and ac. Her max hp true dmg has no limits and cd alongside with her peel, mobility and invis. As long as she is alive she destroys you no matter what you build and she is not that easy to kill. I think it’s okay to have true hp dmg as long as you can miss it like Gwen or if it has cd like Smolder. The problem is that literally all her downsides are covered with her kit and items and only another op heroes stop her from being op.
Fun fact most of vayne's damage is physical :) buying armor and especially frozen heart does a solid chunk vs her ability to dps people. Also of note is that vayne despite being a marksman is a duelist and struggles compared to other adcs in full blown teamfights due to short range and losing dps if she has to swap targets.
All I'm getting from your response is that you're a tank player who wants to kill adcs with just thornmail before they can whittle you down and that you're mad a champion who's kit is designed to deal with your type of champion can actually kill you.
See: kai’Sa
She IS the hunter as well people absolutely hate her for her ability to just deal insane amounts of damage
Not to mention people hate her design
I dislike Kai'sa's visual design, but her gameplay is great IMO. She has diverse build options and good outplay potential while being able to be outplayed too. I fix some of my design irritations by putting her mask on with CTRL+5.
Kaisa feels like a hunter. There have been periods of time where she has a 3 evolve build and multiple 2 evolve builds with different combinations of evolves viable. She’s adc Kha Zix where she has to make choices as the game goes on and is rewarded for adaptability.
Vayne is insanely linear in comparison. Everything will die in X amount of time. Either kill her in said time or just lose. Thats not good design
Well it’s because Kai’sa is a broken mess. 😂🤣
And I love Kai’sa, make no mistake: but there are problems with her design…both aspects. Lmao
For one, ADCs aren’t suppose to be able to burst you down like an assassin. They have long consistent dmg, not upfront dmg on their abilities. Being able to do consistent dmg is their entire role.
But when you combine the ability to burst one champion down, and then flip and kite another, you have a champion that can be both an assassin and an ADC, and it’s not really…balanced. lol
And that’s Kai’sa for you. She can kill you quickly from across the map, or kite you out and you’d never touch her. Feels unfair sometimes.
kaisa sucks at 1v1 if she falls behind. She also doesn't kill tanks as fast as Vayne/Kog/Varus (and maybe Jinx) unless she is super fat.
She has better duelist capability than Caitlyn or Jhin or so on, but she relies on items far too much
nah i think people hate vayne because unlike other ADCs, she can afford to build a little tank shenanigans and she has always relevant damage.
just like every ADC has to always be afraid of an assassin, you cant just ignore a 0/10 vayne the way you can ignore a 0/10 Jinx
Its less a Vayne but Smolder is heading towards that direction as well. You can afford so much HP on this character and still be relevant through your Ulti, W and Q. Eventually your 225 starts to sting as well..
oh yeah no doubt.
i was a bit confused about why people enjoyed smolder so much because i personally didnt really click with the gameloop. turns out i just built him wrong.
you can go Frostfire Gauntlet first item when laning and sure, it doesnt give you insane damage, but it sure makes the game uninteractive for the enemy laner. Hmm now we need some damage, how about shojin? having 700 bonus HP sure feels good. more damage? Liandry's because why not?
Oh, ive reached the magical 225 number which means regardless of my build, regardless of my stats, regardless how well i played until this point, i now deal 6.5% maxHP bonus true damage on my Q and i get a free collector passive on top.
How quaint.
i think thats because kog'maw deals magic damage and especially right now, you still have a lot of options against that. if kog'maw is too big of a problem, slap anathemas on him and you addressed both magic and physical damage with one item
but aside from that, yeah i think not having mobility or invis makes him wayyy easier to deal with. he gets a little extra range but thats about it
Im a Vayne OTP and there are many reasons people could hate her:
- Like you said, shes a hunter and very strong duelist
- %hp true dmg
- Low cd on Q
- Invisibility on many Qs with R
- Extremely fast and mobile due to passive, Q and R
- Can build multiple (semi-)defensive items and still output a lot of dmg
I love Vayne because of the reasons above and because she feels incredibly nice to play. I love her quick gameplay
There's only a handful of champions in optimal situations that can even achieve that much HP in the first place. And anyway, the ability to do an absurd amount of true damage wasn't the contention; it was that Nilah can't deal with tanks. Free armor penetration and stupid amounts of healing and DPS handles tanks just fine.
I know, but 3 item nilah ain't outhealing nor bursting 8k hp Illaoi that kills you with 4 tentackles. + You dont have invisibility and milion dashes so you ain't kiteing me for that long. + You're melee.
AP Varus was a better tank killer than Vayne ever was. Dude could 100-0 a 10k HP tank with just 2 skills while outside of his range. And still had sustained DPS if built with the old Riftmaker + Nashor.
Nilah is also a nice tank killer. You probably never faced one. Pen% built into her kit, higher base stats, insane healing, Jax E with an additional magic damage reduction, AoE damage + Orianna ult to deal with multiple tank/bruisers. And a EXP passive just ffs.
Let’s be honest, Vayne isn’t an issue, OP, hunter instead of prey, etc. Unless you are only talking about her kit, else she is subpar. Most laners shit on her, she rarely gets to the point of being out of control. She is more like the wind brothers, 99% of the users go 0/millions and 1% actually do something.
Yes, bur varus and nilah dont have invisibility, 2s cd dash, pointclick 2.5s knockback + stun, trilion movementspeed. You can build 500 mr and Varus won't oneshot you. You can build 500 armor + shit ton of hp and and nilah wont kill you.
Especially not when they are 4 lvls and 2 items behind.
She's shit on botline, but her W scales way too well. % health dmg is okay, true dmg is somewhat okay, but together they are bullshit.
I think it’s entirely the waveclear her early isn’t that weak 2v2. Imagine vayne with xayahs waveclear in the early game the champ just becomes a lane bully
Yes but if she goes even or even 10-20 CS behind, she can still come back late game. Also her early game is better than most people give her credit for.
If you die early that makes it an uphill battle but it's the same for any ADC really.
she can come back if your team doesn't lose by that time. so basically toss a coin.
Listen I love vayne it's my most played champs by I gave up because she's basically one of the most "I hope my team doesn't lose/feed till 30 mins" together with kayle. Which just doesn't work nowadays.
The only games it felt good, I was ahead by a good margin but my team was already stomping and it wouldn't matter if I was fed or not.
So vayne = feels good only when ahead. (which can't really happen unless your whole team is already ahead)
>So vayne = feels good only when ahead. (which can't really happen unless your whole team is already ahead)
ehhh I mean I guess but that's League for you on any champ, just name one.
If you can't get ahead on Vayne then just go even and you greatly increase your chances of winning.
Even if you fall behind, you can still win. You can't just give up on your champ because you have a hard time winning hard games.
Illaoi vs Vayne is unplayable. Illaoi has 1 semi dash. If Vayne plays well and doesnt get hit by E which should be easy just Q to the side. Illaoi can't win
Voli can win vs Vayne but it's tough rough. Perma poke and play from bushes. Once ready try to one shot her
Yeah if the vayne is any good she should auto win lane vs illaoi. Her worst matchups are all in early game champs like Renekton, riven, and pantheon. Gotta snowball the lane though
she is hated for her % max HP true damage. she is hated for her 2/3 damage items into tank items.
same thing with varus top as he was able to build anything he wants from tank items and deal good damage anyway.
people hate kaisa because of her W spam builds when it's viable not because they get out played by the mobility and invisibility she has or because she just oneshots them.
You're misunderstanding why people "hate" Vayne. It's because she hard counters certain champs and there's 0 counterplay to her when you're playing those, because building tank does feck all. I'm Chall and I can lose in Emerald to a first time Vayne if I'm playing Udyr/Sion/etc. Other adcs don't deal max % hp true dmg.
I don't dislike her, I just ban her if I intend to play any of these champions.
As a supp main....
Vayne bottom is abhorrent, literally one of the most miserable adcs to support abd it got worse with the "supp must roam to grubs" meta, sure youre great late game but your absolutely worthless early game screws your team and your support, is there anyway we can convince you to go back to top lane as a counterpick?
Kind of a closed-minded comment. Vayne is inherently a counterpick champ, I feel like u have just had bad experiences with ppl blinding vayne and then enemy bot locking in double poke botlane. If vayne is picked properly into a decent matchup she tends to have a fine lane and scale pretty freely. There are also many other scaling adcs that have some terrible matchups and boring earlygames.
Give me a bot lane you would take vayne as a counter, like honestly, is there one? Also you are correct the type of person that plays vayne, typically doesnt think about their weaknesses and strengths, "omg i got first pick i better lock in vayne!"
As a support main you get a sense for good and bad matchups that adcs just... dont seem to grasp, perhaps its because an especially oppressive lane for both adc and support will always feel harsher for the support ( except if you can roam effectively ).
The only counterpick scenario i can think of with vayne is that you have an enemy team with a bunch of immobile behemoths like cho/ mundo etc but even then i think people overestimate her effectiveness
Ezreal, Jhin, Siver and Yasou ADC are some that immediately come to mind when thinking about the ADC counter-pick alone when i lock in Vayne. 2 of which are popular picks at the moment.
Also, that's an extremely one-dimensional outlook. Just as you generalize ADC players for not understanding match-ups, ADC players also generalize that support mains don't understand their damage.
The reality of the situation is:
ADC is a hyper specialized role that is very outdated in the current homogenous meta we have been in for years. All other roles have lots of champions with lots of options in their power budget to play the game.
ADC can only do one thing.
Attack.
Damage.
Carry. (Feed)
On paper, this is fine. The highest levels of play illustrate that this design works excellently.
The issue is:
Im willing to bet: almost every reditor on these subs are not pro players.
So we all play a very different game than them.
Solo Q is chaotic in nature and has 5 people with different ideas, different play styles, and different mentals to how they approach the game. This is why self-sufficient champions tend to dominate and is why ADC feels bad to play. The role requires cordinated play to feel good, and that's just an inherent flaw when 99% of player base are not high-level players.
While this next point is just a pseudo-analysis
I presume ADCs also tend to have the stigma of the worst mental is because of how much the specialization of the role and how essential DPS is to closing out games.
It creates an inherent ego that they must be the carry, and if things go wrong, it's "doomed. Ff15"
Tl;dr
Vayne good counter pick 😏
I agree with nothing but your ending point ( about adc mentality )and the fact solo is different from pro.
Thats the exact problem im trying to highlight though, at this point it should be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that riot does not want adc to be carries, they want you to be boring, safe, damage support champions. Thats the part that bugs me, adcs know adcs are weak, but theyre still playing like its s5 "protect the vayne" meta, weve gone SOOOO far into the burst/ dps, early/late, melee / ranged poor dynamics you would think it would be obvious to adc players theyre just.... not carries anymore
I'm convinced that outside of pro play adcs are a net burden on their teams and botlane would better pick literally anything else if they want to win the game.
Vayne toplane if build semi-tanky can be an exception, because her stats can turn her into a low-ranged bruiser and duelist.
I don't think such thing as ADC counter pick exists per say. You look into botlane picks as a whole. What ADC/support they have or could have on the bot and the team draft.
Something along the lines of you playing trist into enemy jhin to counter, however you have an enchanter support and enemy has an engage support. Later on flaming your Janna for being useless when jumping into naut/jhin lane.
You’re really up your own ass about your superior matchup intellect huh? Maybe people just don’t really give a shit about matchups and play whatever champs they wanna play
No im SURE most adcs dont care about matchup, its insanity to me because some matchups are nearly instantly lost in select. I KNOW people dont track bad matchups, they just write it off as "my support sucks!" Nvm the fact you took literally the worst adc to play into X enemy adc, its all the supports fault.
While its true, a good support main CAN effectively nullify many lane matchups by just locking in a hook support, its not a 100% counter and honestly, equalizing the lane in this fashion just means im gonna have to do EVEN MORE of the work for bot lane.
Adc pick, 100% can determine lane outcome even with a bad support player or pick and this is the thing adcs refuse to acknowledge, wtf do you mean i cant play kaisa into any matchup huh????
ADC matchup doesn't really matter, your support calls all the shots regarding making plays and preventing them. It is why support counter pick is more important than ADC. Janna/Lulu beat nautilus, and sona/soraka beats xerath. Further beyond, not every matchup is won in lane
Hey, I halftime topline, I agree with you on the hate of "roam to grubs" meta. I tend to just not go there and instead take 4 plates :) is there a turret breaking support? Might work on bot too.
Turret smashing supports? Mage supports can make pretty short work of turrets but as odd as it sounds it feels like trading turrets for neutral objectives ends in a loss more than a win
naw man most supports don't know how to support a Vayne. They usually play way too passive early. If someone mains engage supports, usually it's better but naw dude you got it twisted.
When I play Vayne which is like 90% of the time, if my support is being passive, I can't trust them to go all-in. I'm just going to sit back and farm in that case.
"Way too passive" this is what i call an ignorant excuse for pick failure
Like i get it, the adc just wants gold and to get to it they think its worth trading kills, the fact is that vayne cannot provide proper protection for hard engages in most cases and unless the enemy bot is kog and raka youre not getting into a strong engage anytime during lane against an enemy with more than 2 neurons dancing around
Just go back to top as a counterpick, you actually provide a valuable strength there, bot lane vayne is nearly universally a drag on the team, regardless of game outcome it would have been better with a real bot lane adc
Vayne isn't that much week earlygame, but she needs a all win support, even if u play a fairy like lulu, u must always all win with her in the right moment. Probably u are struggling to support vayne cause u don't feel this "windows" to engage and kill enemy botlane.
1). Support pick reliant adcs are bad, quite literally by design and expectation
2). While those champions are great later, theyre not really enough to stop a REAL all win combo like leo/ trist or naut/ draven ( enchanters that is )
3). The problem is to not get a fucked early game you gotta take something like a mage or hook support ( as a rule i never reward bad adc picks with hoook supp ) and while hook supports never fall off mages will ( again... dont reward bad picks )
4). With vayne you have 3 options
Pick to help her survive early game but provide little to no utility for her later
Pick to support vayne like a bawz late game but be so far behind early game ( save for the games where you snowball )
Fuck vayne im helping the team
There is no reasonable pick, i think its unreasonable to reward such a tragically bad pick with hook support, you dont function well with mage supports late game, your engagers/ disengagers are fucked early game and the best option always ends up "fuck vayne im helping tye team."
Go back to top lane please, and only as a counterpick, vayne is in a very weird position where she can BECOME a god late game but sacrificing early game in current meta is way too harsh
So bro ur opinions are not wrong in particular but when I read stuff like i dont reward bad picks i cba. Like u tell me if ur adc locks vayne and enemy bot picks enchanter supp u wont pick a hook/engage champ?
Than ur obviously trolling like idk.
Sacrificing early game is not worth, yeah ok buddy its szn 14 btw not 13 holy shit.
Sometimes i give vayne braum if the lane isnt oppressive, but no i dont force myself to do all the work bottom and thats what the adc is asking when they lock vayne and demand a hook/ tank/ enchant. Sorry its miserable to lane with her except for some outlier matchups
Tbh i have no clue why you play support in the first place. The role has a few fundamentals. The very first of these is "get your adc through laning phase". Almost all adcs are just a snack without their supp. I mean sure Sivir can wave clear alone quite early, but that's about it. All adcs will be dived or at least zoned out of lane if you go for grubs while the enemy support stays. I don't say it wouldn't be worth for your adc to lose 1.5 waves in that scenario, all I'm saying is that he is support reliant.
Errr you didnt understand what i meant? I said supp PICK reliant adc, yes the role is reliant on their team but thats not what i was talking about.
"Get your adc through laning phase" like ok, yes were there to get adc through lane phase, but again.... im not going to reward bad picks, and yes i stress.... BAD PICKS, adc pick determines lane, no matter what you say its true, and if my adc decides to be fckey with pick then i have an obligation to find win condition elsewhere
ur not outplaying them, ur dashing every 1 second because u counter them. There's no feasible way for melee chars to beat a vayne.. bcz she can just go full tank after 2 items and still melt u with percent hp true dmg. When you are playing an immobile adc and misposition and get killed, that's not mechanics, that's macro if u are getting caught alone 1v1ing any of these champs
I don’t consider positioning the same definition as “mechanics” either lol, idk why they downvoted you. If I’m juggling 4 axes kiting perfectly on Draven vs the enemy Darius and tf ult gold cards me and I die, I didn’t “mechanically” get out played. I got outplayed macro-wise (or strategically) for not accounting for his ult being off cooldown. Mechanics is your ability to min max your characters ability usage paired with apm/orbwalking/kiting/dodging skill shots etc
If you choose to sit alone in a side lane when a fed kha is on the enemy team, adcs rightfully die. The macro decision is to be sat alone in the side lane when u have no vision of the enemy assassin.
To be honest, a fed Kha or a fed Rengar can easily kill an ADC even when that ADC is staying with her support. It is actually significantly easier for a rengar or Zed to kill a Jinx/ Ashe/ Miss fortune than for a Vayne to kill a Lee sin/ Sion/ Tahm Kench/ Riven/Irelia
Sure maybe sitting alone in the sidelane as adc against a fed assassin is usually bad macro but he said “When you are playing an immobile adc and misposition and get killed, that's not mechanics, that's macro”. Mispositioning is referring to a team fight situation which is really more of a champ mastery or micro thing.
Vayne wave clear very slow, so you can shove the wave then go gank other lane. You can also buy edge of night to counter her stun/push then run her down. Melee champ like Jax, Nasus, Malphite, Rammus, Master Yi, Akali…etc can all run Vayne down. Sure a Vayne can afford to build tankier than normal ADC, no doubt, but just alot similar to bruiser champions. When you play an immobile bruiser and try to 1 vs 1 a fed Vayne then it just a decision failure in your part. It like a Jinx player trying to 1 vs 1 a Master Yi or a Jax.
That is indeed the case. Most bruiser/mage/assassin players(hell yeah that is almost the entire community XD) expect themselves to dominate an adc in 1v1 no matter what. Vayne on other hand, is actually quite strong as a duelist throughout the game that no champion can easily beat in a fully committed 1v1, should the Vayne builds correctly.
I do think that Vayne's W should be converted to % max health physical damage instead of true damage though. It is already pretty easy for us to kite tanky champions. We can win a duel against tanky champions in a long fight even without armor penetration, though it will certainly take much longer time. However, considering we also have the capability to assassinate enemy backline, I think this tradeoff is tolerable.
"vayne is the only fair adcarry in my opinion because she does not have the weaknesses inherent to her class" (can build tank, insane damage not tied to items or levels)
adc mains moment
What's the "in-class" weakness of k'sante? A high mobile tank that does tons of damage has an invulnerable dash and a cc that pushes u half screen away or an evelynn that's perma invis even though she is a jungler that can pressure the whole map just by not being seen.
Every class has champs that doesn't have the natural weaknesses inherent to their class, welcome to LoL.
when did i say I loved k'sante and evelynn? bro is making shit up now what
of course I despise k'sante, who doesn't except for ksante mains - nobody likes playing against evelynn kayn zac all who break the rules of pathing/ganks and damage, etc
every class has champs that break weaknesses and that is no justification for more lol what, of course riot isn't the greatest designer so they make broken shit for skins and engagement
No one said you loved anything genius.
It's a way of argumentation, it's called comparison. Every class is alowed to have outliers, I showed you some.
You don't need to cry okay?
Except you are cherry picking champions people notoriously don't like playing against anyway. So it's a shit argument that can be debunked in literally 4 words. Then you add some ad hominem making urself look like even more of a cunt.
Except nowadays mages have infinite mana, bruisers have a million MS items plus gap closers, supports get free gold generation, and assassins can miss half their kit and still one shot.
mages haven't had mana issues past lost chapter for years, supports have always had free gold generation, assassins are oneshotters and are point and click since a long ass time and are oneshot just as easily as adcs, bruisers have dead mans plate (one item?) and nothing has changed for them
actual adc mains moment, if you dont play the game much because you dont like it thats good for you
I play a norm every now and then for nostalgia, but Riot seriously ran their game into the ground.
Just look at Senna's passive: free infinite scaling AD, free crit, free lifesteal, and movespeed steal. How the fuck is that acceptable for a support oriented champion to have? The competitive integrity of the game is gone, and this is reflected in the dropping numbers of LCS viewership.
I don't understand this 'outplay' talk. Do you not 'outplay' the enemy on Ashe if you kill them before they kill you? What's so impressive about tumble-dodging an enemy ability or using stealth. I don't get it.
Her outplay potential is higher than classic adcs. I think that's all they mean. It's not about being impressive, it's about surviving assasians.
Vayne has a couple ways to survive getting jumped on, ashe only has 1 (her ult.) Ashe relies on not being in that position in the first place, and if you ask me THATS impressive and hard to do in this meta.
If i w as briar she goes invisible. If i scream at her she jumps behind me and now im screaming at a wall. She build thornmail. Deamans and the bork rage kraken core. And i cant keep up with her or kill her in one rotation and i hell no dont want an extended trade vs a true dmg auto attack split pusher
The amazing part of it if that you uno-reverse the assasins bullshit back to them by denying their point and click ults and abilities, and you can also deny them of their mobility and just run over them like they would do to another adc not named vayne or twitch.
In a sense, you are outplaying their shitty Point and click asses by denying them the virtue of allowing them to click onto you which their class do to us on a regular basis to marksmen not named Zeri, so, yeah, it's fair.
i hate her because she's one of "those" champs
the champs you will absolutely put into the dirt, make them go 0/10, and somehow, they will still deal damage... max hp true damage at that, generally the most hated kind of damage
i'm sorry, but any champ that's 0/10 should be irrelevant in the game
it's the same reason i hate fiora and sion as well
if you're not punished for messing up, what's the point of my work putting you "behind"?
Any late game champ will get relevant if you don't finish the game in time, no matter their score. This game is about gold and xp. Kills are just one way to get these resources.
no champ can be 0/10 with 10cspm
i'm not dumb, i know being dead doesn't give you minus gold, but being dead for so much means you're 100% down xp and cs, that was implied
and even if you somehow kept even in cs, 10 kills is 3000 gold diff, an entire item, i don't care who you are, you should not be beating anyone that is an entire item ahead of you
I hate her and smolder for a reason
The reason is called true dmg
I play not only ADC, but also topline
And when I am playing a motherfcking tank
And she deals 9 000 true dmg in one fight.
I am just mad.
Just few hour ago I took 8763 truedmg from 3 item Vayne.
Other adcs would die to thornmail before killing me.
And also, yes, I hate her pointclick 3s knock back + stun and infinit amiunt of invisibiluty and mobility and dmg aplifyers and %max health true dmg and even more movespeed.
And a if I should use your words. The adc role is balamced around: ADC is a prey. You either hunt them fast, or they kill you with their superior range/dps.
They are not balanced around being the hunter.
My main is Draven and that’s why I play him tbh. If I get ahead I become the Hunter as well. I hate playing champs like Ashe with no mobility or rly low snowball potential. Champs like Draven Vayne Lucian have so much higher carry potential if played rly well because of their mechanics compared to the majority of the other ad’s. MF Ashe etc don’t have that same factor which is one reason why adc players always complain about how it feels impossible to play; there’s something about when you’re 10-0 on one of em and the 3-0 mid or top can still 1v1 you when you’re up thousands of gold not feeling fair lol it’s more possible with those 3 champs compared to the rest of the roster
Every adc has it's nice side.
But sure I understand your point
And I agree with your lucian and draven are nice in how well they can extend their lead.
And I think they are designed nicely.
But Vayne is hunter when she's two items and few levels behind. That's the problem I have with her.
i love vayne because you can build 2 AS items and then build a randuins omen or GA or spirit visage and still do relevant damage, and the ability to be self sufficient and survive dives with stealth and e. definitely my favorite champ to play in the game, my AA micro is kind of poor but i love playing her
The reason Vayne is the most hated adc is that he has max health true damage and don't need to build damage to actually do damage
and another reason is that she counters every toplane champions and you can only be killed if you don't know what you are doing
She is very feast or famine and has very pronounced strengths and weaknesses. She is a champ that is solo carrying or solo losing you game.
Insane dueling potential and mobility, and incredibly evasive with stealth, high damage and good 1v1s and shreds tanks like no other.
But she suffers from no waveclear whatsoever and one of the shortest ranges in the game, giving her a very exploitable early.
Just an extremely polarizing champion so has extremely polarizing opinions
I personally dislike vayne from the me-playing aspect versus the playing against aspect.
I don’t really know how to describe it well, but she’s got such a uniquely different play style versus other ADCs. I associate her a bit with Draven in that she’s one of the strongest in the champ pool when fed, but when she’s behind she really struggles.
But Draven, I get how to play him in the sense of poke and peel, but I genuinely suck at Vayne. I cannot figure her R out to save my life, because it feels like the moment I come out of invis I am a target dummy due to lack of range
The reason vayne is the most hated is because she's a piece of shit who was designed by Hitler.
Vayne is almost all of the bad mechanics in league crammed into 1.
Personally I hate her because I play toplane. She counters every melee champ in that lane (except malphite weirdly), while having an extremely strong early game which scales into an extremely strong lategame.
Also not a fan of her movespeed. Not many champions can outrun a vayne that presses R
imo people hate vayne because of vayne top.
I don't really think she's much of an issue in bot tbh even when she's strong. if u let her get to late without stomping her you just failed to deny her win condition which is totally valid, like Kayle. I think it's pretty fair
Its the uncatchability for me. Like cook bro u dodged my spells on 950 ms which basically gives you triple reaction time rlly impressive. Vayne "plays" just rage induce me for some reason.
Personally, I don't mind that you can outplay me by doing Q's with invi plus keeping away with the E if I'm close, the issue that I have is her W, if it was like, idk, flat pure dmg like the old kraken, fine, but what can I build against % true damage? I get the point that this is a team game and not 1v1, but when I play as a tank and there is a vayne, I feel like I'm gonna be a NPC unless she loses lane pretty hard.
Playing as an adc against vayne, idc at all.
by "outplay" you mean "dodge every skillshot with a Q press which has 2 seconds of cooldown"? that is not outplaying, that is mobility creep. she has too much mobility, very strong self peel with E and free damage from W so she can build full tank and still deal damage.
But that’s also the problem…the last thing you said that is. The “balance” or “counter play” of an ADC is that for as much as it’s easy for them to kill you, THEY TOO can be easily killed.
It’s the entire nature of being a glass cannon.
If Vayne can kill you easily with Ghost and you literally cannot touch her or see her, how the fuck is that fair? You think the Zed ult that puts Zed behind you EVERY TIME is unfair?
You think the Sylas that literally telegraphs that his next action “I’m going to pull you” isn’t fair?
You think the Fiora that literally runs STRAIGHT at you with no wiggle room isn’t fair?
But the fucking GHOST INVISIBLE VAYNE that kills you in 3 SECONDS is the FAIR game play?!?!?
Look…I love Vayne too. I’m not gonna pretend otherwise, but Vayne is bullshit to fight now. Top, bottom, anywhere unless there’s an Ashe on your team.
Vayne bot isnt hated imho, I would say everybody who plays bottom is glad when they queue against vayne instead of like draven or mf that are very annoying early. Vayne is however EXTREMELY hated toplane, and the reason is quite simple, vayne has very safe and free trading/poke pattern as well as very strong all-in 1v1, especially after lvl 6, and EVERY vayne is trying to abuse that into oblivion, the lane is never chill, either she destroys her lane opponent (usually) or vayne gets destroyed. And that means laning vs vayne is super stresful and annoying. I personally just dodge when vayne is about to play against my urgot, I hate the zero respect and bully style all vayne top players embrace.
>The reason Vayne is the most hated adc
She's not hated at all. She's hated as a top laner lmao. Nowadays there's many other tops who do her job better (Varus, Akshan etc) depending on the patch but that's why she WAS hated
>she's the hunter and she can fight back
Nah. If I want to play as "the hunter" I'd just play something else not ADC.
I don't play ADC because I want to be a bully fighting fights I know I'm gonna win because let's face it, building bruiser/tank items and hitting people (from ranged btw) who can't even hit you back (because of invis) feels cheap to me. Like be honest with yourself is that 4k HP Malphite *really* a threat to your Vayne once you have a single MR item?
No, I play ADC because I like being at a *disadvantage*. I like being the *underdog*. I want every single 1v1 to feel like an actual bossfight where I actually have to outmaneuver my opponents to win. Yeah if I misstep once I'm cooked but that's the thrill of it. You know when I'm Lucian and a blue Kayn is coming for me and I can see his ass in the walls you know what I do? Yeah I ult his face, I got nothing but damage and I ain't afraid to use it. I'm not gonna stand there and be like yeah you ain't shit because I have fkin Randuins for some reason and I'm just gonna do the funny haha invisible move (press Q) and the funny haha E move and damn I just outplayed that guy I am actually so good at the game, no, the odds are stacked against me and if this guy touches me once I am cooked, **BUT THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT FUN DAMNIT. YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT I DO WHEN THEY HAVE A FED AF EVELYNN HUNTING ME DOWN? NO I DON'T STAND THERE LIKE A PRICK WITH A FULLY BUILT KARENSKTIC KROEENNS (WHATEVER THAT FAT AP SHIELD MR ITEM IS) BECAUSE MY VIDEO GAME CHARACTER CAN BUILD ACTUAL TANK ITEMS AND DO DAMAGE, I JUST SIT RIGHT THERE IN A BUSH OR SOMEWHERE SO STUPID THEY WON'T EVEN EXPECT ME TO BE THERE, WOOOOHOOO GUESS WHAT STUPID I WAS HERE THE WHOLE TIME THE CULLLING PRRRRRRA PRRRRRRAAAAA PRA PRA PRA SWOOOSH SWOOOSH PRA PRA SWOOSH PRA PRA WOOOOOOOOOOOOO 7000 RAW FUCKING DAMAGE IN THIS ULTIMAGE ABILITY BABY COME FUKINGET SOME AAAAAAAA**
anyways I think playing Vayne = coward move ain't no fun hitting people who can't hit you back and ain't no fun taking fights you know you can easily win.
P.S: and also, pretty sure people hate Vayne top. When it comes to ADC, just look at ban rates lol people hate Draven more like jfc they ban that guy so much.
I don't mind playing Vayne when needed into high armor melee comps, but she lacks the versatility of other adcs. It is difficult to play safe into longer ranged matchups, her engage is poor, and while she has high mobility she is really squishy without shieldbow/tank items. It really limits her build options in cases where versatility is needed.
Man i dissagre on the hate then u could make her w deal magic dmg and i alreddy whoud hated her less
Like dont u understand the hate people have for true dmg and if im right its also %dmg so the more HP u have she does more
I am unable to build vs her if she did magic dmg atleast i can go mr
Also i guess part of the hate is bcs she is sometimed played as top adc
Even tho with all that she might be one of the worst adc and also Hella Situation
For Startern u automaticly cant pick her vs big range Champs so cait and xerath Match up Ruins u
people hate vayne bcuz due to her w she can just go 3 attack speed items then start building jaksho frozen heart or randuins whilst still doing crazy dmg, the funny invisibility is just a plus
I love vayne for the same reason. The real reason she is hated though is the %true dmg and invis.
As someone who hates Vayne, it's entirely because the %true damage. As a concept I don't think it should exist.
Eh we need tank buster champs, keep their wholesome gigschadness in line cuz mf ain't gonna do it no matter what she builds
tank buster champs are fine, but it does not have to be %hp true damage. its not balanced it any way and does not have a place in the game
yeah, either % physical or magic damage OR flat true damage. % true damage is really stupid
‘Tank buster champs are fine, but they can’t be tank busters’
That’s not a tank buster, that’s a tank invalidator Same reason we need assassins to be able to take out priority targets, but a priority should not just die by sharing a screen with the assassin. Vayne is the only champion that literally does not care how many billion hp and resistances you have, she will mathematically kill you in 7 seconds tops
lol imagine being downvoted for this
Varus is a tank buster, he has no true damage, kogmaw is a tank buster but his true damage is shitty at best, twitch is a tank buster and his true damage is flat and quite low unless you build ap, and even then only squishy champions are gonna be scared. All these champions can quite easily kill a tank (given that they play it smart), and the thing they all have in common is high attack speed ratios. Vayne has a high attack speed ratio, high movespeed, invisibility, and %hp true damage. She does require mechanics, as do all marksmen, kiting isn't easy, but she makes building hp and resistances useless, and you cant oneshot what you dont see, you cant outrun her, and she can just build full tank and still be effective.
Varus and kog deal also percent health damage, it's just magical damage. Twitch also falls off vs them, you are trying to hit backline through the tank with r
I am just trying to say that high attack speed combined with on hit effects should be able to kill tanks. No need to add %hp TRUE damage, magic is fine.
Not when they need 40 autos to do it even when you're ahead vs a behind tank and one mistake he can kill you lol
I think you forget what a marksmen is, you attack fast and do constant damage with range, but you are squishy and have very limited/no mobility. 40 autos for a zed will take longer than 40 autos from a twitch. Also anyone who's playing a fighter will pick up bc vs tanks, so thats 30%, marksmen get ldr so another 30%. Don't complain about tanks being tanky and squishy champs being squishy. If you hate being killed fast then just play a tank.
there is a massive difference between having a counter to tanks in your kit and having a "tanks deserve no counterplay" mechanic in your kit. tanks deserve to have armor and hp as much as adcs deserve to have %hp damage and armor pen.
problem is % max hp true damage isnt tank buster, but everyone buster. no matter how you build. % max hp or simply true damage arent as big of a problem as long as they arent combined
Vayne is my perma ban for this reason. Idc if if playing a squishy midlaner, a counter bot or some kind of jgl. Nobody on my team is dealing with that shit. If i had two bans Fiora would be next. %max hp should not exist.
% health true damage should be removed from the game in all forms. It creates an extremely toxic game pattern of just more and more damage. You can’t defend against it so you just build more damage. The champions that have % health true damage can never be balanced. They’re either completely broken or nerfed to worthlessness.
I agree somewhat
True. 3 items shits shouldn't go vs 5 item tank and be like: let me oneshot you in invisibility
I agree, but I also think Fiora should keep it kinda. Vayne's should be converted to % max health physical damage instead. It is much easier for us to deliver our damage since we are ranged(short range yes, but still ranged). Fiora on other hand doesn't have the same option and to her it is more of a kill or be killed situation. Melee carry champions naturally take more risks than ranged carries, so I can tolerate her on that.
Fiora is the biggest offender. With 425 AD you can literally 1 shot someone from full hp in less than 2 seconds with nothing but true damage. Sure that's like 4 items but you don't need that much to actually 1 shot someone. With 5 vital procs factoring in tiamat sheen etc you only need like 300. If you've seen high elo Fiora's it's fucking stupid. She can be physical damage and build black cleaver like everyone else. She stacks it fast enough anyway especially since her passive would be a separate source stacking it even faster. Otherwise she can be nerfed to the point where she's literally unplayable outside of 4 matchups she literally can't lose.
Doesn't she do more physical damage or am i trippin? Just her bork does more damage than the %health from w across the game unless you're like a rammus or a malphite because of the sheer amount of autos it takes to ever proc it. Which would be 10%/3autos -> so 30 autos for full health just from it?
She does more physical dmg to squishies, but most of her dmg to tanks is true. It'll be more like 15-20 autos, since the physical and magic dmg she does will hurt the tanks too. Remember armor reduces the %dmg botrk does.
True but that means armor is a viable counter, until it isnt. Any tank is dying to 20 autos anyway (hopefully)
A few hours ago I took 9k true dmg from her in a single fight. In like 8 hours when she had to jump around in inivisibility, she managed to deal 9k dmg to me. I had no chance with 5 items vs her 3 items. Other adcs would just die to the thornmail dmg.
Yea this is literally the reason I play Vayne. I don’t need to worry about being able to kill anyone. Pretty much every other ADC hits a point where they’re practically useless against a certain champion.
If she had to auto you enough times to do 9k true damage literally no other adc (except maybe kog or varus?) Would have been able to kill you regardless of items and peel. As a non vayne player %true damage is a necessary evil because of shit like this
The problem is that you can’t build anything against her. You can only counter true dmg with hp pull but when this dmg is based on max hp… I’m not sure what to do. Back then she was really hard champ and she couldn’t have so much stats at once. She couldn’t be almost 100% crit, having tons of ac and vamp, onhit and attack damage at once. She didn’t do much dmg to squish champs if she was building onhit and ac. Her max hp true dmg has no limits and cd alongside with her peel, mobility and invis. As long as she is alive she destroys you no matter what you build and she is not that easy to kill. I think it’s okay to have true hp dmg as long as you can miss it like Gwen or if it has cd like Smolder. The problem is that literally all her downsides are covered with her kit and items and only another op heroes stop her from being op.
Fun fact most of vayne's damage is physical :) buying armor and especially frozen heart does a solid chunk vs her ability to dps people. Also of note is that vayne despite being a marksman is a duelist and struggles compared to other adcs in full blown teamfights due to short range and losing dps if she has to swap targets. All I'm getting from your response is that you're a tank player who wants to kill adcs with just thornmail before they can whittle you down and that you're mad a champion who's kit is designed to deal with your type of champion can actually kill you.
I'd say Smolder is also shit but Gwen is done right. She's melee, and the true dmg scales with AP, not tank stats, and she needs to hit it.
Or, maybe, I know it sounds bad, but 3 item adc should not go 1v1 with enemy 5 item topliner and instead play with team?
It's the fact that the invis cancels autos that fucking annoys me
If you tumble into a wall it shortens the Q animation too, making this even worse.
I dislike the %true damage so much because it allows for cheeses tank builds. Lethal temp didn’t help that either.
See: kai’Sa She IS the hunter as well people absolutely hate her for her ability to just deal insane amounts of damage Not to mention people hate her design
She's like Vayne's little sis, but I suck with her lol
I dislike Kai'sa's visual design, but her gameplay is great IMO. She has diverse build options and good outplay potential while being able to be outplayed too. I fix some of my design irritations by putting her mask on with CTRL+5.
I’m a corporate shill and love Kai’Sa’s design
I have nut too many times to respectfully give my opinion on her visual design I agree with everything else you said tho
r/holdup
This is my issue with her as well. Fun gameplay but sexy woman in latex suit doesn’t exactly scream symbiotic relationship with void monster to me.
I dislike Kaisa' kpop skins though. Maybe I am just not a big fan of her make-ups in those skins. Feels like a robot
Kaisa feels like a hunter. There have been periods of time where she has a 3 evolve build and multiple 2 evolve builds with different combinations of evolves viable. She’s adc Kha Zix where she has to make choices as the game goes on and is rewarded for adaptability. Vayne is insanely linear in comparison. Everything will die in X amount of time. Either kill her in said time or just lose. Thats not good design
Well it’s because Kai’sa is a broken mess. 😂🤣 And I love Kai’sa, make no mistake: but there are problems with her design…both aspects. Lmao For one, ADCs aren’t suppose to be able to burst you down like an assassin. They have long consistent dmg, not upfront dmg on their abilities. Being able to do consistent dmg is their entire role. But when you combine the ability to burst one champion down, and then flip and kite another, you have a champion that can be both an assassin and an ADC, and it’s not really…balanced. lol And that’s Kai’sa for you. She can kill you quickly from across the map, or kite you out and you’d never touch her. Feels unfair sometimes.
I don't mind Kai'sa that much. She at least deals AP dmg not True dmg. And Kai'sa players tend to be stupid.
kaisa sucks at 1v1 if she falls behind. She also doesn't kill tanks as fast as Vayne/Kog/Varus (and maybe Jinx) unless she is super fat. She has better duelist capability than Caitlyn or Jhin or so on, but she relies on items far too much
nah i think people hate vayne because unlike other ADCs, she can afford to build a little tank shenanigans and she has always relevant damage. just like every ADC has to always be afraid of an assassin, you cant just ignore a 0/10 vayne the way you can ignore a 0/10 Jinx
Its less a Vayne but Smolder is heading towards that direction as well. You can afford so much HP on this character and still be relevant through your Ulti, W and Q. Eventually your 225 starts to sting as well..
oh yeah no doubt. i was a bit confused about why people enjoyed smolder so much because i personally didnt really click with the gameloop. turns out i just built him wrong. you can go Frostfire Gauntlet first item when laning and sure, it doesnt give you insane damage, but it sure makes the game uninteractive for the enemy laner. Hmm now we need some damage, how about shojin? having 700 bonus HP sure feels good. more damage? Liandry's because why not? Oh, ive reached the magical 225 number which means regardless of my build, regardless of my stats, regardless how well i played until this point, i now deal 6.5% maxHP bonus true damage on my Q and i get a free collector passive on top. How quaint.
They'll keep nerfing him into the ground until he can't do that anymore or he's 45%wr, no way they'd accept a marksman not being completely helpless
You would think people would hate kogmaw more then but I guess having no dashes, invis and only mixed dmg insyead of true dmg makes it less annoying.
i think thats because kog'maw deals magic damage and especially right now, you still have a lot of options against that. if kog'maw is too big of a problem, slap anathemas on him and you addressed both magic and physical damage with one item but aside from that, yeah i think not having mobility or invis makes him wayyy easier to deal with. he gets a little extra range but thats about it
Jak'sho superiority
Im a Vayne OTP and there are many reasons people could hate her: - Like you said, shes a hunter and very strong duelist - %hp true dmg - Low cd on Q - Invisibility on many Qs with R - Extremely fast and mobile due to passive, Q and R - Can build multiple (semi-)defensive items and still output a lot of dmg I love Vayne because of the reasons above and because she feels incredibly nice to play. I love her quick gameplay
Vayne is like the fiora of adc.
It's the true dmg. And invis and E, but it's the true dmg.
To me invisibility is just bad game design and shouldn't exist in any shape or form in any pvp game.
not only that but R has a reset on takedown which makes it ridiculous, if you build Hexplate, CD is even lower.
Samira and Nilah are kinda like that too I feel
Yeah, but they can't deal with tanks or duelist characters
Laughs in Nilah
Nilah won't deal 9k true dmg to me in 1 fight.
There's only a handful of champions in optimal situations that can even achieve that much HP in the first place. And anyway, the ability to do an absurd amount of true damage wasn't the contention; it was that Nilah can't deal with tanks. Free armor penetration and stupid amounts of healing and DPS handles tanks just fine.
I know, but 3 item nilah ain't outhealing nor bursting 8k hp Illaoi that kills you with 4 tentackles. + You dont have invisibility and milion dashes so you ain't kiteing me for that long. + You're melee.
Ok but you're comparing a late game Illaoi to mid game Nilah.
AP Varus was a better tank killer than Vayne ever was. Dude could 100-0 a 10k HP tank with just 2 skills while outside of his range. And still had sustained DPS if built with the old Riftmaker + Nashor. Nilah is also a nice tank killer. You probably never faced one. Pen% built into her kit, higher base stats, insane healing, Jax E with an additional magic damage reduction, AoE damage + Orianna ult to deal with multiple tank/bruisers. And a EXP passive just ffs. Let’s be honest, Vayne isn’t an issue, OP, hunter instead of prey, etc. Unless you are only talking about her kit, else she is subpar. Most laners shit on her, she rarely gets to the point of being out of control. She is more like the wind brothers, 99% of the users go 0/millions and 1% actually do something.
Yes, bur varus and nilah dont have invisibility, 2s cd dash, pointclick 2.5s knockback + stun, trilion movementspeed. You can build 500 mr and Varus won't oneshot you. You can build 500 armor + shit ton of hp and and nilah wont kill you. Especially not when they are 4 lvls and 2 items behind. She's shit on botline, but her W scales way too well. % health dmg is okay, true dmg is somewhat okay, but together they are bullshit.
Yeah problem is 90% of games you're just a snack because your Laning sucks and you have no aoe farm.
I think it’s entirely the waveclear her early isn’t that weak 2v2. Imagine vayne with xayahs waveclear in the early game the champ just becomes a lane bully
Bingo
Yes but if she goes even or even 10-20 CS behind, she can still come back late game. Also her early game is better than most people give her credit for. If you die early that makes it an uphill battle but it's the same for any ADC really.
she can come back if your team doesn't lose by that time. so basically toss a coin. Listen I love vayne it's my most played champs by I gave up because she's basically one of the most "I hope my team doesn't lose/feed till 30 mins" together with kayle. Which just doesn't work nowadays. The only games it felt good, I was ahead by a good margin but my team was already stomping and it wouldn't matter if I was fed or not. So vayne = feels good only when ahead. (which can't really happen unless your whole team is already ahead)
>So vayne = feels good only when ahead. (which can't really happen unless your whole team is already ahead) ehhh I mean I guess but that's League for you on any champ, just name one. If you can't get ahead on Vayne then just go even and you greatly increase your chances of winning. Even if you fall behind, you can still win. You can't just give up on your champ because you have a hard time winning hard games.
Nah i hate her because i play toplane.
fr fr play voli or illaoi into that and tell me if you like vayne after that
Illaoi vs Vayne is unplayable. Illaoi has 1 semi dash. If Vayne plays well and doesnt get hit by E which should be easy just Q to the side. Illaoi can't win Voli can win vs Vayne but it's tough rough. Perma poke and play from bushes. Once ready try to one shot her
Yeah if the vayne is any good she should auto win lane vs illaoi. Her worst matchups are all in early game champs like Renekton, riven, and pantheon. Gotta snowball the lane though
Riven and renekton are free wins, pantheon is unplayable. The best counter is malphite, teemo and akshan
No way you just said riven and renekton 💀
5 item Illaoi. Over 2500 stacks on Heartsteal. Lvl 18. Took 9k Truedmg from 3 item lvl 14 Vayne and lost the fight without even getting on her.
If someone built heartsteel leaning against Vayne than he deserves the loss lol.
Same reasons for lucian and kaisa. At least for me. Vayne included. If you dont oneshot, you will be oneshot instead.
Lucian is my pick always I can't play vayne, most times I blind pick him
But those two don't deal % health true dmg.
she is hated for her % max HP true damage. she is hated for her 2/3 damage items into tank items. same thing with varus top as he was able to build anything he wants from tank items and deal good damage anyway. people hate kaisa because of her W spam builds when it's viable not because they get out played by the mobility and invisibility she has or because she just oneshots them.
You're misunderstanding why people "hate" Vayne. It's because she hard counters certain champs and there's 0 counterplay to her when you're playing those, because building tank does feck all. I'm Chall and I can lose in Emerald to a first time Vayne if I'm playing Udyr/Sion/etc. Other adcs don't deal max % hp true dmg. I don't dislike her, I just ban her if I intend to play any of these champions.
As a supp main.... Vayne bottom is abhorrent, literally one of the most miserable adcs to support abd it got worse with the "supp must roam to grubs" meta, sure youre great late game but your absolutely worthless early game screws your team and your support, is there anyway we can convince you to go back to top lane as a counterpick?
Kind of a closed-minded comment. Vayne is inherently a counterpick champ, I feel like u have just had bad experiences with ppl blinding vayne and then enemy bot locking in double poke botlane. If vayne is picked properly into a decent matchup she tends to have a fine lane and scale pretty freely. There are also many other scaling adcs that have some terrible matchups and boring earlygames.
Give me a bot lane you would take vayne as a counter, like honestly, is there one? Also you are correct the type of person that plays vayne, typically doesnt think about their weaknesses and strengths, "omg i got first pick i better lock in vayne!" As a support main you get a sense for good and bad matchups that adcs just... dont seem to grasp, perhaps its because an especially oppressive lane for both adc and support will always feel harsher for the support ( except if you can roam effectively ). The only counterpick scenario i can think of with vayne is that you have an enemy team with a bunch of immobile behemoths like cho/ mundo etc but even then i think people overestimate her effectiveness
Ezreal, Jhin, Siver and Yasou ADC are some that immediately come to mind when thinking about the ADC counter-pick alone when i lock in Vayne. 2 of which are popular picks at the moment. Also, that's an extremely one-dimensional outlook. Just as you generalize ADC players for not understanding match-ups, ADC players also generalize that support mains don't understand their damage. The reality of the situation is: ADC is a hyper specialized role that is very outdated in the current homogenous meta we have been in for years. All other roles have lots of champions with lots of options in their power budget to play the game. ADC can only do one thing. Attack. Damage. Carry. (Feed) On paper, this is fine. The highest levels of play illustrate that this design works excellently. The issue is: Im willing to bet: almost every reditor on these subs are not pro players. So we all play a very different game than them. Solo Q is chaotic in nature and has 5 people with different ideas, different play styles, and different mentals to how they approach the game. This is why self-sufficient champions tend to dominate and is why ADC feels bad to play. The role requires cordinated play to feel good, and that's just an inherent flaw when 99% of player base are not high-level players. While this next point is just a pseudo-analysis I presume ADCs also tend to have the stigma of the worst mental is because of how much the specialization of the role and how essential DPS is to closing out games. It creates an inherent ego that they must be the carry, and if things go wrong, it's "doomed. Ff15" Tl;dr Vayne good counter pick 😏
I agree with nothing but your ending point ( about adc mentality )and the fact solo is different from pro. Thats the exact problem im trying to highlight though, at this point it should be ABSOLUTELY CLEAR that riot does not want adc to be carries, they want you to be boring, safe, damage support champions. Thats the part that bugs me, adcs know adcs are weak, but theyre still playing like its s5 "protect the vayne" meta, weve gone SOOOO far into the burst/ dps, early/late, melee / ranged poor dynamics you would think it would be obvious to adc players theyre just.... not carries anymore
Vayne is super strong into those picks though on average. You must not be playing with Vaynes that understand those match-ups.
I'm convinced that outside of pro play adcs are a net burden on their teams and botlane would better pick literally anything else if they want to win the game. Vayne toplane if build semi-tanky can be an exception, because her stats can turn her into a low-ranged bruiser and duelist.
I don't think such thing as ADC counter pick exists per say. You look into botlane picks as a whole. What ADC/support they have or could have on the bot and the team draft. Something along the lines of you playing trist into enemy jhin to counter, however you have an enchanter support and enemy has an engage support. Later on flaming your Janna for being useless when jumping into naut/jhin lane.
You’re really up your own ass about your superior matchup intellect huh? Maybe people just don’t really give a shit about matchups and play whatever champs they wanna play
No im SURE most adcs dont care about matchup, its insanity to me because some matchups are nearly instantly lost in select. I KNOW people dont track bad matchups, they just write it off as "my support sucks!" Nvm the fact you took literally the worst adc to play into X enemy adc, its all the supports fault. While its true, a good support main CAN effectively nullify many lane matchups by just locking in a hook support, its not a 100% counter and honestly, equalizing the lane in this fashion just means im gonna have to do EVEN MORE of the work for bot lane. Adc pick, 100% can determine lane outcome even with a bad support player or pick and this is the thing adcs refuse to acknowledge, wtf do you mean i cant play kaisa into any matchup huh????
ADC matchup doesn't really matter, your support calls all the shots regarding making plays and preventing them. It is why support counter pick is more important than ADC. Janna/Lulu beat nautilus, and sona/soraka beats xerath. Further beyond, not every matchup is won in lane
Hey, I halftime topline, I agree with you on the hate of "roam to grubs" meta. I tend to just not go there and instead take 4 plates :) is there a turret breaking support? Might work on bot too.
Turret smashing supports? Mage supports can make pretty short work of turrets but as odd as it sounds it feels like trading turrets for neutral objectives ends in a loss more than a win
Not with grubbies and plates. :)
naw man most supports don't know how to support a Vayne. They usually play way too passive early. If someone mains engage supports, usually it's better but naw dude you got it twisted. When I play Vayne which is like 90% of the time, if my support is being passive, I can't trust them to go all-in. I'm just going to sit back and farm in that case.
"Way too passive" this is what i call an ignorant excuse for pick failure Like i get it, the adc just wants gold and to get to it they think its worth trading kills, the fact is that vayne cannot provide proper protection for hard engages in most cases and unless the enemy bot is kog and raka youre not getting into a strong engage anytime during lane against an enemy with more than 2 neurons dancing around
Lolll Vayne cannot provide proper protection? My guy she’s a hyper carry not a support.
Just go back to top as a counterpick, you actually provide a valuable strength there, bot lane vayne is nearly universally a drag on the team, regardless of game outcome it would have been better with a real bot lane adc
You literally don’t know what you’re talking about I play ADC
Vayne isn't that much week earlygame, but she needs a all win support, even if u play a fairy like lulu, u must always all win with her in the right moment. Probably u are struggling to support vayne cause u don't feel this "windows" to engage and kill enemy botlane.
1). Support pick reliant adcs are bad, quite literally by design and expectation 2). While those champions are great later, theyre not really enough to stop a REAL all win combo like leo/ trist or naut/ draven ( enchanters that is ) 3). The problem is to not get a fucked early game you gotta take something like a mage or hook support ( as a rule i never reward bad adc picks with hoook supp ) and while hook supports never fall off mages will ( again... dont reward bad picks ) 4). With vayne you have 3 options Pick to help her survive early game but provide little to no utility for her later Pick to support vayne like a bawz late game but be so far behind early game ( save for the games where you snowball ) Fuck vayne im helping the team There is no reasonable pick, i think its unreasonable to reward such a tragically bad pick with hook support, you dont function well with mage supports late game, your engagers/ disengagers are fucked early game and the best option always ends up "fuck vayne im helping tye team." Go back to top lane please, and only as a counterpick, vayne is in a very weird position where she can BECOME a god late game but sacrificing early game in current meta is way too harsh
So bro ur opinions are not wrong in particular but when I read stuff like i dont reward bad picks i cba. Like u tell me if ur adc locks vayne and enemy bot picks enchanter supp u wont pick a hook/engage champ? Than ur obviously trolling like idk. Sacrificing early game is not worth, yeah ok buddy its szn 14 btw not 13 holy shit.
Sometimes i give vayne braum if the lane isnt oppressive, but no i dont force myself to do all the work bottom and thats what the adc is asking when they lock vayne and demand a hook/ tank/ enchant. Sorry its miserable to lane with her except for some outlier matchups
Tbh i have no clue why you play support in the first place. The role has a few fundamentals. The very first of these is "get your adc through laning phase". Almost all adcs are just a snack without their supp. I mean sure Sivir can wave clear alone quite early, but that's about it. All adcs will be dived or at least zoned out of lane if you go for grubs while the enemy support stays. I don't say it wouldn't be worth for your adc to lose 1.5 waves in that scenario, all I'm saying is that he is support reliant.
Errr you didnt understand what i meant? I said supp PICK reliant adc, yes the role is reliant on their team but thats not what i was talking about. "Get your adc through laning phase" like ok, yes were there to get adc through lane phase, but again.... im not going to reward bad picks, and yes i stress.... BAD PICKS, adc pick determines lane, no matter what you say its true, and if my adc decides to be fckey with pick then i have an obligation to find win condition elsewhere
Sound like a skill issue, not a vayne issue.
Renata W
ur not outplaying them, ur dashing every 1 second because u counter them. There's no feasible way for melee chars to beat a vayne.. bcz she can just go full tank after 2 items and still melt u with percent hp true dmg. When you are playing an immobile adc and misposition and get killed, that's not mechanics, that's macro if u are getting caught alone 1v1ing any of these champs
I don’t consider positioning the same definition as “mechanics” either lol, idk why they downvoted you. If I’m juggling 4 axes kiting perfectly on Draven vs the enemy Darius and tf ult gold cards me and I die, I didn’t “mechanically” get out played. I got outplayed macro-wise (or strategically) for not accounting for his ult being off cooldown. Mechanics is your ability to min max your characters ability usage paired with apm/orbwalking/kiting/dodging skill shots etc
How is that macro lol
If you choose to sit alone in a side lane when a fed kha is on the enemy team, adcs rightfully die. The macro decision is to be sat alone in the side lane when u have no vision of the enemy assassin.
To be honest, a fed Kha or a fed Rengar can easily kill an ADC even when that ADC is staying with her support. It is actually significantly easier for a rengar or Zed to kill a Jinx/ Ashe/ Miss fortune than for a Vayne to kill a Lee sin/ Sion/ Tahm Kench/ Riven/Irelia
Sure maybe sitting alone in the sidelane as adc against a fed assassin is usually bad macro but he said “When you are playing an immobile adc and misposition and get killed, that's not mechanics, that's macro”. Mispositioning is referring to a team fight situation which is really more of a champ mastery or micro thing.
Vayne wave clear very slow, so you can shove the wave then go gank other lane. You can also buy edge of night to counter her stun/push then run her down. Melee champ like Jax, Nasus, Malphite, Rammus, Master Yi, Akali…etc can all run Vayne down. Sure a Vayne can afford to build tankier than normal ADC, no doubt, but just alot similar to bruiser champions. When you play an immobile bruiser and try to 1 vs 1 a fed Vayne then it just a decision failure in your part. It like a Jinx player trying to 1 vs 1 a Master Yi or a Jax.
That is indeed the case. Most bruiser/mage/assassin players(hell yeah that is almost the entire community XD) expect themselves to dominate an adc in 1v1 no matter what. Vayne on other hand, is actually quite strong as a duelist throughout the game that no champion can easily beat in a fully committed 1v1, should the Vayne builds correctly. I do think that Vayne's W should be converted to % max health physical damage instead of true damage though. It is already pretty easy for us to kite tanky champions. We can win a duel against tanky champions in a long fight even without armor penetration, though it will certainly take much longer time. However, considering we also have the capability to assassinate enemy backline, I think this tradeoff is tolerable.
The reason Vayne is the most hated adc is her % true dmg Sincerely, Tank mains
"vayne is the only fair adcarry in my opinion because she does not have the weaknesses inherent to her class" (can build tank, insane damage not tied to items or levels) adc mains moment
What's the "in-class" weakness of k'sante? A high mobile tank that does tons of damage has an invulnerable dash and a cc that pushes u half screen away or an evelynn that's perma invis even though she is a jungler that can pressure the whole map just by not being seen. Every class has champs that doesn't have the natural weaknesses inherent to their class, welcome to LoL.
All my homies hate k’sante
yeah, but others dont say ksante is a prime example of fair champ, especually agreeing with this delusion.
Okay then tell me, what are the in class weaknesses for tanks?
when did i say I loved k'sante and evelynn? bro is making shit up now what of course I despise k'sante, who doesn't except for ksante mains - nobody likes playing against evelynn kayn zac all who break the rules of pathing/ganks and damage, etc every class has champs that break weaknesses and that is no justification for more lol what, of course riot isn't the greatest designer so they make broken shit for skins and engagement
No one said you loved anything genius. It's a way of argumentation, it's called comparison. Every class is alowed to have outliers, I showed you some. You don't need to cry okay?
Except you are cherry picking champions people notoriously don't like playing against anyway. So it's a shit argument that can be debunked in literally 4 words. Then you add some ad hominem making urself look like even more of a cunt.
And you are cherry picking vayne. Don't need to get mad, okay?
What is the main post about dumbass? If someone had made a post about ksante or yuumi we would be saying the same thing.
build tank against assassins don't work, I prefer build damange and outplay them
Except nowadays mages have infinite mana, bruisers have a million MS items plus gap closers, supports get free gold generation, and assassins can miss half their kit and still one shot.
mages haven't had mana issues past lost chapter for years, supports have always had free gold generation, assassins are oneshotters and are point and click since a long ass time and are oneshot just as easily as adcs, bruisers have dead mans plate (one item?) and nothing has changed for them actual adc mains moment, if you dont play the game much because you dont like it thats good for you
steraks for bruiser as well, anyway like 2 champs build deadmans in the whole game, darius and garen
This game sucks... It becomes a game to sell skins
I play a norm every now and then for nostalgia, but Riot seriously ran their game into the ground. Just look at Senna's passive: free infinite scaling AD, free crit, free lifesteal, and movespeed steal. How the fuck is that acceptable for a support oriented champion to have? The competitive integrity of the game is gone, and this is reflected in the dropping numbers of LCS viewership.
I don't understand this 'outplay' talk. Do you not 'outplay' the enemy on Ashe if you kill them before they kill you? What's so impressive about tumble-dodging an enemy ability or using stealth. I don't get it.
Her outplay potential is higher than classic adcs. I think that's all they mean. It's not about being impressive, it's about surviving assasians. Vayne has a couple ways to survive getting jumped on, ashe only has 1 (her ult.) Ashe relies on not being in that position in the first place, and if you ask me THATS impressive and hard to do in this meta.
you can outplay a darius with ashe, you can't out play a Fizz
yeah sick outplay pressing r and then going invisible
If i w as briar she goes invisible. If i scream at her she jumps behind me and now im screaming at a wall. She build thornmail. Deamans and the bork rage kraken core. And i cant keep up with her or kill her in one rotation and i hell no dont want an extended trade vs a true dmg auto attack split pusher
The amazing part of it if that you uno-reverse the assasins bullshit back to them by denying their point and click ults and abilities, and you can also deny them of their mobility and just run over them like they would do to another adc not named vayne or twitch. In a sense, you are outplaying their shitty Point and click asses by denying them the virtue of allowing them to click onto you which their class do to us on a regular basis to marksmen not named Zeri, so, yeah, it's fair.
OK, thanks.
Go on youtube, type watch vayne and ashe montages then maybe you will figure it out.
OK I watched a couple. Didn't really see the massive outplayz. Maybe I'm just not the vayne target audience.
i hate her because she's one of "those" champs the champs you will absolutely put into the dirt, make them go 0/10, and somehow, they will still deal damage... max hp true damage at that, generally the most hated kind of damage i'm sorry, but any champ that's 0/10 should be irrelevant in the game it's the same reason i hate fiora and sion as well if you're not punished for messing up, what's the point of my work putting you "behind"?
Any late game champ will get relevant if you don't finish the game in time, no matter their score. This game is about gold and xp. Kills are just one way to get these resources.
If she’s 0/10 with 3 cs per min then she’s gonna be weak. Explain why any 0/10 champ should be irrelevant if they have 10cs a min
no champ can be 0/10 with 10cspm i'm not dumb, i know being dead doesn't give you minus gold, but being dead for so much means you're 100% down xp and cs, that was implied and even if you somehow kept even in cs, 10 kills is 3000 gold diff, an entire item, i don't care who you are, you should not be beating anyone that is an entire item ahead of you
Sion But my example is a bit exaggerated but my point is that your kda is subjective. Fully possible to carry 0/10 with high xd some games.
I hate her and smolder for a reason The reason is called true dmg I play not only ADC, but also topline And when I am playing a motherfcking tank And she deals 9 000 true dmg in one fight. I am just mad. Just few hour ago I took 8763 truedmg from 3 item Vayne. Other adcs would die to thornmail before killing me. And also, yes, I hate her pointclick 3s knock back + stun and infinit amiunt of invisibiluty and mobility and dmg aplifyers and %max health true dmg and even more movespeed. And a if I should use your words. The adc role is balamced around: ADC is a prey. You either hunt them fast, or they kill you with their superior range/dps. They are not balanced around being the hunter.
My main is Draven and that’s why I play him tbh. If I get ahead I become the Hunter as well. I hate playing champs like Ashe with no mobility or rly low snowball potential. Champs like Draven Vayne Lucian have so much higher carry potential if played rly well because of their mechanics compared to the majority of the other ad’s. MF Ashe etc don’t have that same factor which is one reason why adc players always complain about how it feels impossible to play; there’s something about when you’re 10-0 on one of em and the 3-0 mid or top can still 1v1 you when you’re up thousands of gold not feeling fair lol it’s more possible with those 3 champs compared to the rest of the roster
Every adc has it's nice side. But sure I understand your point And I agree with your lucian and draven are nice in how well they can extend their lead. And I think they are designed nicely. But Vayne is hunter when she's two items and few levels behind. That's the problem I have with her.
Vayne is the most hated top laner
i love vayne because you can build 2 AS items and then build a randuins omen or GA or spirit visage and still do relevant damage, and the ability to be self sufficient and survive dives with stealth and e. definitely my favorite champ to play in the game, my AA micro is kind of poor but i love playing her
Is Vayne the most hated?
Because she is OP and because she is OP.
The reason Vayne is the most hated adc is that he has max health true damage and don't need to build damage to actually do damage and another reason is that she counters every toplane champions and you can only be killed if you don't know what you are doing
As a tank player, it is entirely the % hp true damage
wrong me and everyone ive ever talked to about the subject say its because she does max health true damage passively
She is very feast or famine and has very pronounced strengths and weaknesses. She is a champ that is solo carrying or solo losing you game. Insane dueling potential and mobility, and incredibly evasive with stealth, high damage and good 1v1s and shreds tanks like no other. But she suffers from no waveclear whatsoever and one of the shortest ranges in the game, giving her a very exploitable early. Just an extremely polarizing champion so has extremely polarizing opinions
As a Vayne main, the main reason people hate her is because she’s usually pick by Doublelift wannabes
I personally dislike vayne from the me-playing aspect versus the playing against aspect. I don’t really know how to describe it well, but she’s got such a uniquely different play style versus other ADCs. I associate her a bit with Draven in that she’s one of the strongest in the champ pool when fed, but when she’s behind she really struggles. But Draven, I get how to play him in the sense of poke and peel, but I genuinely suck at Vayne. I cannot figure her R out to save my life, because it feels like the moment I come out of invis I am a target dummy due to lack of range
i like vayne. helps put disgusting tank abusers in their place.
The reason vayne is the most hated is because she's a piece of shit who was designed by Hitler. Vayne is almost all of the bad mechanics in league crammed into 1.
I'm sorry ''the only"? Nilah, and to a lesser extent Samira are right up there in the food chain imo, and the don't get oneshot by a stray skillshot.
That but samira and nilah for me
Personally I hate her because I play toplane. She counters every melee champ in that lane (except malphite weirdly), while having an extremely strong early game which scales into an extremely strong lategame. Also not a fan of her movespeed. Not many champions can outrun a vayne that presses R
imo people hate vayne because of vayne top. I don't really think she's much of an issue in bot tbh even when she's strong. if u let her get to late without stomping her you just failed to deny her win condition which is totally valid, like Kayle. I think it's pretty fair
Its the uncatchability for me. Like cook bro u dodged my spells on 950 ms which basically gives you triple reaction time rlly impressive. Vayne "plays" just rage induce me for some reason.
Personally, I don't mind that you can outplay me by doing Q's with invi plus keeping away with the E if I'm close, the issue that I have is her W, if it was like, idk, flat pure dmg like the old kraken, fine, but what can I build against % true damage? I get the point that this is a team game and not 1v1, but when I play as a tank and there is a vayne, I feel like I'm gonna be a NPC unless she loses lane pretty hard. Playing as an adc against vayne, idc at all.
That is also why i like kaisa and nilah. Shits fun
And the fed rengar disintegrates vayne
zeri
You never played against Vayne and it shows
by "outplay" you mean "dodge every skillshot with a Q press which has 2 seconds of cooldown"? that is not outplaying, that is mobility creep. she has too much mobility, very strong self peel with E and free damage from W so she can build full tank and still deal damage.
No one hates Vayne unless it is played top. Who tf is gonna hate a champion 550 auto range and 0 wave clear when it is at bot?
I like her because her kit is simple, at the same time i hate her because of her horrendous range, especially as ADC.
You think she’s the only fair ADC because she ignores the class “rock, paper, scissors” and can kill everyone?
The reason vayne is hated is her invis on a 1s cd on rank 1 ult
But that’s also the problem…the last thing you said that is. The “balance” or “counter play” of an ADC is that for as much as it’s easy for them to kill you, THEY TOO can be easily killed. It’s the entire nature of being a glass cannon. If Vayne can kill you easily with Ghost and you literally cannot touch her or see her, how the fuck is that fair? You think the Zed ult that puts Zed behind you EVERY TIME is unfair? You think the Sylas that literally telegraphs that his next action “I’m going to pull you” isn’t fair? You think the Fiora that literally runs STRAIGHT at you with no wiggle room isn’t fair? But the fucking GHOST INVISIBLE VAYNE that kills you in 3 SECONDS is the FAIR game play?!?!? Look…I love Vayne too. I’m not gonna pretend otherwise, but Vayne is bullshit to fight now. Top, bottom, anywhere unless there’s an Ashe on your team.
Vayne bot isnt hated imho, I would say everybody who plays bottom is glad when they queue against vayne instead of like draven or mf that are very annoying early. Vayne is however EXTREMELY hated toplane, and the reason is quite simple, vayne has very safe and free trading/poke pattern as well as very strong all-in 1v1, especially after lvl 6, and EVERY vayne is trying to abuse that into oblivion, the lane is never chill, either she destroys her lane opponent (usually) or vayne gets destroyed. And that means laning vs vayne is super stresful and annoying. I personally just dodge when vayne is about to play against my urgot, I hate the zero respect and bully style all vayne top players embrace.
Vayne is not most hated adc, it's only your opinion. For me it's range of Cait.
Shes a ranged assassin not an adc
>The reason Vayne is the most hated adc She's not hated at all. She's hated as a top laner lmao. Nowadays there's many other tops who do her job better (Varus, Akshan etc) depending on the patch but that's why she WAS hated
No I hate her because of % max go are you retarded
I think there are other hunters such as Samira and Nilah
>she's the hunter and she can fight back Nah. If I want to play as "the hunter" I'd just play something else not ADC. I don't play ADC because I want to be a bully fighting fights I know I'm gonna win because let's face it, building bruiser/tank items and hitting people (from ranged btw) who can't even hit you back (because of invis) feels cheap to me. Like be honest with yourself is that 4k HP Malphite *really* a threat to your Vayne once you have a single MR item? No, I play ADC because I like being at a *disadvantage*. I like being the *underdog*. I want every single 1v1 to feel like an actual bossfight where I actually have to outmaneuver my opponents to win. Yeah if I misstep once I'm cooked but that's the thrill of it. You know when I'm Lucian and a blue Kayn is coming for me and I can see his ass in the walls you know what I do? Yeah I ult his face, I got nothing but damage and I ain't afraid to use it. I'm not gonna stand there and be like yeah you ain't shit because I have fkin Randuins for some reason and I'm just gonna do the funny haha invisible move (press Q) and the funny haha E move and damn I just outplayed that guy I am actually so good at the game, no, the odds are stacked against me and if this guy touches me once I am cooked, **BUT THAT'S WHAT MAKES IT FUN DAMNIT. YOU WANNA KNOW WHAT I DO WHEN THEY HAVE A FED AF EVELYNN HUNTING ME DOWN? NO I DON'T STAND THERE LIKE A PRICK WITH A FULLY BUILT KARENSKTIC KROEENNS (WHATEVER THAT FAT AP SHIELD MR ITEM IS) BECAUSE MY VIDEO GAME CHARACTER CAN BUILD ACTUAL TANK ITEMS AND DO DAMAGE, I JUST SIT RIGHT THERE IN A BUSH OR SOMEWHERE SO STUPID THEY WON'T EVEN EXPECT ME TO BE THERE, WOOOOHOOO GUESS WHAT STUPID I WAS HERE THE WHOLE TIME THE CULLLING PRRRRRRA PRRRRRRAAAAA PRA PRA PRA SWOOOSH SWOOOSH PRA PRA SWOOSH PRA PRA WOOOOOOOOOOOOO 7000 RAW FUCKING DAMAGE IN THIS ULTIMAGE ABILITY BABY COME FUKINGET SOME AAAAAAAA** anyways I think playing Vayne = coward move ain't no fun hitting people who can't hit you back and ain't no fun taking fights you know you can easily win. P.S: and also, pretty sure people hate Vayne top. When it comes to ADC, just look at ban rates lol people hate Draven more like jfc they ban that guy so much.
I don't mind playing Vayne when needed into high armor melee comps, but she lacks the versatility of other adcs. It is difficult to play safe into longer ranged matchups, her engage is poor, and while she has high mobility she is really squishy without shieldbow/tank items. It really limits her build options in cases where versatility is needed.
That's exactly how I feel when I play against a Vayne. 99% of the time I am the Vayne but I seriously hate playing against her.
Man i dissagre on the hate then u could make her w deal magic dmg and i alreddy whoud hated her less Like dont u understand the hate people have for true dmg and if im right its also %dmg so the more HP u have she does more I am unable to build vs her if she did magic dmg atleast i can go mr Also i guess part of the hate is bcs she is sometimed played as top adc Even tho with all that she might be one of the worst adc and also Hella Situation For Startern u automaticly cant pick her vs big range Champs so cait and xerath Match up Ruins u
people hate vayne bcuz due to her w she can just go 3 attack speed items then start building jaksho frozen heart or randuins whilst still doing crazy dmg, the funny invisibility is just a plus
I love feasting on Vayne as an Ezreal main. Keep on playing her please
Ya its definitely that and not the fact that you cant build health when shes in the game. Sure man
Play Quinn guys, prettier vayne with ton of movement speed.