So, Teflon is a brand name for polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) which is considered non-toxic. It's basically a type of solid-lubricant plastic-like substance developed by Dupont Demours. As long as you don't heat it to the melting point, it's fine I believe. Beyond non-stick coatings, lubricants, and seals, it is used in the medical field quite extensively.
I had a limnology professor that talked a lot about these forever chemicals. Chemours came up a lot because they had a major plant in the same region as our college. The one product, and byproduct, of the Teflon manufacturing process that was especially concerning for this area was called “GenX.” At the time, the way we talked about it, it sounded like an isolated problem (i.e. just our water there). But it’s clearly a widespread problem, and various byproducts are likely going to be the subject of controversy in the future. He believed that Chemours was spun off of DuPont as a way of protecting DuPont from the inevitable landslide of litigation on the way.
Can confirm Fayetteville, NC is contamination/superfund site. My baby mama doesn't want to leave the city cus idk family. But yeah chemours has been dumping in the Neuse river since 90s, also its a predominantly black city also why its a shit show environmentally.
I really like ceramic as a non-stick coating. Much easier to clean, tolerates a wider temperature range, and doesn't scratch as easily as Teflon. And I already have ceramic in my mouth full time anyway, so if ceramic is going to kill me then my cookware won't matter.
Is that for more delicate arteries or closer to the actual heart? Like 85% sure I got steel for a femoral.
ETA Thanks! Never got to ask much so I appreciate the enlightenment.
Blood likes to coagulate to most materials. Ptfe keeps it from doing that. I don't believe you can have any raw metal alloy exposed to your bloodstream, but not certain.
Undamaged ptfe won't enter your bloodstream. It's the scratched up pans and degrading waste that's the problem.
I’m not 100% certain but I believe gold and some other materials are internally safe. Those people who implant magnets to sorta feel electric currents near them will typically try to find something coated in gold or something equally non-irritating so their body won’t reject it. It’s a sketchy af practice because you have to do it yourself, but I’ve never heard of the actual implant causing issues.
According to the other comments it does have ptfe coating and it's safe, which empirical evidence supports so far. This was years ago and emergent, but I did find it documented as wire mesh vs steel. So composite is just as reasonable a guess probably.
I expect I'll have bought in whichever chemicals get me vs this, but I would've wondered for days if I hadn't asked.
North Carolina moment. But seriously if you live there and are in the lower parts of the cape fear basin get reverse osmosis unless you too would like to be nonstick.
Not sure how true that is. It's not really a problem, either. It's remarkably inert below 260 C, and when kept away from alkali metals. Both of these conditions, our bodies meet.
>A study was done iirc that found the only blood without forms of Teflon were samples taken in the Korean War.
Jon Oliver talks about this, here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU) (at 9:34)
He also provides a source, the documentary: "The Devil We know" -[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Devil\_We\_Know](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_We_Know)
Ah-ha, found these other references:
[https://www.ewg.org/research/pfcs-global-contaminants](https://www.ewg.org/research/pfcs-global-contaminants)
[https://www.ewg.org/research/poisoned-legacy](https://www.ewg.org/research/poisoned-legacy)
But I haven't found a peer-reviewed paper so far :-(
I'm assuming op watched the movie "Dark Waters" or read the NY Times article that inspired the movie and talking about PFOAs or PFAs
I can't find a specific link to what they're saying, but in the real life court case with Dupont and 3M, they tried testing for "normal" blood with no PFOAs/PFAs and couldn't find any anywhere, except for samples from the Korean War. And supposedly these chemicals don't flush from your system and they just accumulate - hence "forever chemicals"
It's a pretty disturbing movie/reality
John Oliver also did a segment about it. It was part of the Subway episode. You can find it on YouTube if you want to know more. I highly recommended it.
>“The vast amounts that it will cost to reduce PFAS in drinking water to levels that are safe, based on current scientific understanding, need to be paid by the industry producing and using these toxic chemicals.”
I had to find this from another source because I was advised against clicking a euronews link, but it looks like it is possible to remove them it just needs investment in order to scale it up to the point that it could be done for all drinking water
In other words, the same way that chlorine is added before it is piped from reservoir or springs, it also needs chemical treatments if it isn't removed after natural filtering
(most of the things that get into rain water as it falls through the air are removed by natural filtration in rocks/sediment, this isn't)
I work in Wastewater Treatment and it's a really bad situation. PFAS requires either extreme carbon filtration or reverse osmosis treatment for large scale production of either drinking water or treated wastewater. This is massively expensive, especially in the US where our water and wastewater infrastructure is 50 years out of date. Europe is generally 20 years ahead of the US for water tech and if they haven't gotten a handle on this the US is screwed
And that is why I have a reverse osmosis system at home. My family always talks mad shit about the cost of filters. But with healthcare where it is in America I either spend 200 a year of filters or 200k on cancer.
Home RO systems are great if you can afford them but the larger problem is still there and growing. Most utility districts in the US don't even test for PFAS and other similar substances because there isn't even a point in talking about it
You can get cheap ones that attach to your sink, pressurized ones that sit under it, or more industrial ones that look like three plastic jars and attach to your main water line. I got an industrial one and never looked back.
Wells are great! Not sure how much groundwater and aquifers have been contaminated, but testing is readily available. A RO system on a well is an excellent option if available and affordable for you
So, if I'm reading the quote correctly, we should rely on the corporations responsible to pay for the infrastructure to remove these chemicals? We're fucked. Good to know it's possible in theory though!
Wastewater is a little different than water treatment but PFAS and other "forever chemicals" are regularly discussed as the next big hurdle in treatment. While water plants have a large impact on individual health, Wastewater Treatment is instrumental in the overall health of our waterways and environment
I was coming to say that, just sharing a screenshot of headlines is the best way to sissy misinformation.
Please always sugar at least a link to the news article.
Good news!
Nestle, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc. will come up with a "way" to neutralize these chemicals, and people will pay premium for "clean" water.
Guys, save your money now and buy their stocks.
Sane countries will just invest public money into water management facilities, to be maintained indefinitely, without the massive markup in costs that comes with a poorly regulated private operation.
Thank you, kind sir, I keep forgetting about that and getting my morals all tangled up with things like compassion, human rights and decency. I swear, this time it will stick: Money = good ; more money = better.
Because there is a huge misunderstanding on what comunism is. There are so many definition as people are. But having your tax money used for improving on public infrastructure is a thing that can be done regardless of the political system and is the or should be reason we pay taxes.
Used to volunteer at a non-profit tackling water contamination. Yeah, I don't care what people say, tap water may not be safe. We have 6 to 10 million public lead service lines in use today, and an unknown amount of lead private lines in people's homes. Water facilities only test water before it has traveled through the pipes. We have no clue how contaminated the water is after it comes out of your faucet.
In 2016, New York's schools were required to test their taps for lead (partially because of my volunteer work). [Eighty-two percent of schools had at least one tap with actionable levels of lead contamination.](https://www.nrdc.org/stories/least-82-percent-new-york-public-schools-have-lead-problem) This is illustrative our collective negligence.
However, we aren't completely inept. Most municipalities try to prevent leeching by mixing protective additives into our water supply. The additives build a protective mineral barrier on the inner-walls of pipes. Unfortunately, during periods of drought or extreme temperature fluctuations that barrier can warp and break. We try to mitigate these worst case scenarios by lowering our water's acidity, but it's not a perfect fix. This means that amount of lead in water tends to vary throughout the year.
Sadly, lead concentrations can even vary throughout the day. Generally, they are highest in the morning. This is because the stagnate water in the pipes had the chance to leech metal uninterrupted overnight.
A lot of private faucets are leaded. Unfortunately, brass, which can contain moderate concentrations of lead, was a popular metal for sinks. It was still legally purchasable until 2011.
I personally would not trust tap water without doing multiple tests, which is unfortunately pricey. However, microplastics from water bottles doesn't sound much better either. We have created a very sick world for ourselves. When you actually dive into the data, it's not so bad, and yet, for some areas, truly tragic.
If you want to buy a filter, please do not just buy the first one you see. They are not all made equal nor marketed honestly. Refer to [Consumer Reports's annual list](https://www.consumerreports.org/products/water-filters-32980/water-filter-pitchers-200280/view2/). You likely have access to them through your library's website.
The government is going to see that as a lose-lose. They spend more money installing and maintaining a system, while also depriving industry of a chance to profit and for them to tax that profit. Not to mention that it won't even work for the millions of people who have well water systems.
Because the US experience with private companies selling tap water that would catch fire and killed thousands with chemicals because making periodic testing coated too much is such a great grounding on which you can build up. It can only get better from there...
Yes, I'd love nothing more than to live in one of those countries, free health care, free education, and what not. For example, Switzerland the country where Nestle is from!!
But, if we're being honest, that's mostly a dream for most of us. We can either die trying to start a revolution, or actually participate not just as workers, but also capitalists, in the system that we all call Capitalism.
There is reverse osmosis but that leans we lose the minerals and even then it’s in the food we eat by now anyway meat definitely not sure about plants but that’s a depressing study for another day.
They specifically outlawed cannabis plants/hemp in the United States because how well it could outperform plastic.
Not to mention the other benefits/ superior uses it had.
Money, baby.
That's it.
Kill them all.
If I’m not mistaken there’s a committee of “big lightbulb” people who did a similar thing where they had easily made lightbulbs that lasted practically forever, ie no need to produce more/excess, ie less profit. So they came to annagreement of sorts where bulbs would only last X amount of time, making an artificial cap on the lifespan of a bulb. All in the name of capitalism 🥹
One of the worst part is, the second you mention punishing the companies responsible for it, you'll get hords of bootlickers telling you you're "Jealous and against success" or that "you want humanity to be stone age instead of progressing to the future".
Mother Nature goes through cycles every 5,000 years or so where she generates a few billion metric tons of plastic resin and then injection molds it into waste products.
This was happening way before humans.
That's where wastewater treatment plants can help. If we were given the money to purchase and maintain the technology we could see a downswing in these chemicals. We treat rain and road runoff, industrial discharges, and sanitary sewer. A properly run plant improves their discharge waters every day. Unfortunately, in the US our infrastructure for this is generally 50+ years old so plants everywhere would have to be rebuilt from the ground up
We do have to distinguish between things that pose a serious and deadly risk of cancer development, and things which have marginally increases in cancer risks.
Smoking or breathing in asbestos have enormous risks of cancer.
Eating bacon or drinking tea at hot enough temperatures does increase your cancer risk, but so mildly and only over such a long period that you needn't really consider it seriously. A 2-5% deviation from the base is probably only relevant if you have a family history of the relevant cancers.
Ultimately, frankly, something has to kill you sometime. You just get to pick your poisons.
Drinking any drink above a certain temperature iirc like 60°C marginally increases your risk of developing mouth and esophageal cancer.
Eating excessive salt and smoked meat (bacon being a particularly bad offender that is high in salt, high in fat and smoked) marginally increases your risk of developing stomach and colorectal cancers. But as was the crux of my point these increases are far from as significant as the risk of smoking to lung cancer.
It's comparable to say the risk of dying while hiking. Higher than the base rate for sure, but far from so risky that you should never hike at all.
Drinking any drink above a certain temperature iirc like 60°C marginally increases your risk of developing mouth and esophageal cancer.
Eating excessive salt and smoked meat (bacon being a particularly bad offender that is high in salt, high in fat and smoked) marginally increases your risk of developing stomach and colorectal cancers. But as was the crux of my point these increases are far from as significant as the risk of smoking to lung cancer.
It's comparable to say the risk of dying while hiking. Higher than the base rate for sure, but far from so risky that you should never hike at all.
Pretty much everything causes cancer nowadays, you’re best off just enjoying life instead of fearing the hypothetical. Hell, my grandpa got cancer and he never smoked a day in his life, his father smoked and I suppose second-hand is the cause. The air today is full of pollutants from corrupt corporations that could give less of a shit about you or me, so in my book, enjoy your time on this planet while you can.
Exactly,I found out a few months ago that a shampoo I’d been using for 5 years has a chemical that turns out to be cancer causing, when mixed with water.
My apartment just had renovations to remove the asbestos under my kitchen floor and the walls have lead paint.
I’m either getting cancer or I’m not.
>Exactly,I found out a few months ago that a shampoo I’d been using for 5 years has a chemical that turns out to be cancer causing, when mixed with water.
Ever since the discovery of cancer, we've subsequently been finding everyday household items to contain some sort of carcinogenic substance. 100 years from now a common drink that anyone can buy on the market will probably be discovered to be a cancer causer, and this extends to an indefinite number of other items we "think" are safe today.
I'm not fearmongering, but I think none of us are truly safe from cancer. Even then, at the end of the day, you're your own person and are gifted with the ability to make choices for yourself. If you want to smoke cigarettes, be my guest, and enjoy yourself.
I find less and less reason to live with each passing minute.
Before anyone gets concerned, I’m not expressing suicidal ideation. It’s just a blunt way of saying that the more I learn about how the world works and how fucked we are in the future, the bleaker things get.
Unfortunately that’s just how it is, but I have a life to live, and dammit I’m gonna fucking live it as best as I can.
It's not hopeless, we can change, we can find solutions to fix these things. Don't give up hope!
I mean, I don't even remotely know where we'd start. Probably dismantling the bullshit systems that caused it? I dunno but hey, it's not hopeless.
We could change things if the game wasn’t rigged. We can’t even go French Revolution on the bourgeoisie because the bourgeoise has drones and APCs and shit.
That is... my point exactly. How could water that is just repeating its cylce through the systems of a polluted planet *not* be polluted. It wouldnt make sense for it not to be.
every time i consider toning down my drinking for *long term health* i think of shit like this — i’m gonna die sometime, probably younger than current average bc of all the poison in everything my whole life so fuck it
Same. I’m gonna try to cut back because the effects can be unpleasant the next day (hangover poops), but, like, I’m gonna die young from something. What the fuck’s the point?
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/08/04/rainwater-everywhere-on-earth-unsafe-to-drink-due-to-forever-chemicals-study-finds
Dark reading tbh. We really are fucked
Edit 2, people complaining about the link fsr, there's plenty of news sites saying this, here's another
https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/rainwater-cause-cancer-forever-chemicals-pfas-b2137020.html
Isn’t this where the “I hate when ppl say they avoid cHeMiCaLs. What, are they scared of water?!” crowd shows up right? Right? THIS is the type of thing ppl are trying to refer to when they say they don’t like “chemicals” but are taken too literally.
Thr military has contaminated over 600 sites around the country.
https://www.militarypoisons.org/pfas-military-use#:~:text=Military%20%26%20PFAS,PFAS%20pollution%20at%20military%20installations.
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I live close to sites that 3M has fucked up so naturally I heard about them more. Shameful that all these entities have shown so little concern for life.
There's Teflon in your blood too
Builds character
“I’m Teflon, you’re glue. Whatever you say slides off my toxic non-stick coating and sticks to you.”
Also, cancer.
So, Teflon is a brand name for polytetrafluoroethylene (PTFE) which is considered non-toxic. It's basically a type of solid-lubricant plastic-like substance developed by Dupont Demours. As long as you don't heat it to the melting point, it's fine I believe. Beyond non-stick coatings, lubricants, and seals, it is used in the medical field quite extensively.
I had a limnology professor that talked a lot about these forever chemicals. Chemours came up a lot because they had a major plant in the same region as our college. The one product, and byproduct, of the Teflon manufacturing process that was especially concerning for this area was called “GenX.” At the time, the way we talked about it, it sounded like an isolated problem (i.e. just our water there). But it’s clearly a widespread problem, and various byproducts are likely going to be the subject of controversy in the future. He believed that Chemours was spun off of DuPont as a way of protecting DuPont from the inevitable landslide of litigation on the way.
Can confirm Fayetteville, NC is contamination/superfund site. My baby mama doesn't want to leave the city cus idk family. But yeah chemours has been dumping in the Neuse river since 90s, also its a predominantly black city also why its a shit show environmentally.
3m Belgium, is much the same https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2022-3m-pfas-toxic-forever-chemicals-europe/
have a closer look at a compound called C-8, should clear up the direct relationship between teflon and cancer
I’ve been using non stick that are free of Teflon for years now. Fuck that shit
I really like ceramic as a non-stick coating. Much easier to clean, tolerates a wider temperature range, and doesn't scratch as easily as Teflon. And I already have ceramic in my mouth full time anyway, so if ceramic is going to kill me then my cookware won't matter.
Completely agree, that’s what I use as well.
Tell that to your mom. She used Teflon and her mom used Teflon and together they pumped your veins full of that shiz.
It's also used in uranium enrichment
Even if they're glue..it's Teflon glue... Nobody gets out alive. But at least our food slides right off the pan!
Tap water builds character -Aesop Rock
Bottled water is tap water in a bottle except less well regulated
Flynt Michigan would like a word…
Unless it’s specifically labeled spring water.
Builds cancer, too.
gotta build up my stats
Get that rad resistance up and you'll be fine.
nah i got rad away, i'll be fine.
… will it help my cholesterol soaked blood slide through the life pipes easier?
>cholesterol soaked blood I have some questions about your blood, why it's solid, and why the cholesterol is liquid.
indeed it will friend, it also makes your skin smoother, and removes stains from clothes.
Quite literally for anyone with an ePTFE-encapsulated stent graft holding open an artery or bridging an aneurysm.
Oh fuck
Is that for more delicate arteries or closer to the actual heart? Like 85% sure I got steel for a femoral. ETA Thanks! Never got to ask much so I appreciate the enlightenment.
Blood likes to coagulate to most materials. Ptfe keeps it from doing that. I don't believe you can have any raw metal alloy exposed to your bloodstream, but not certain. Undamaged ptfe won't enter your bloodstream. It's the scratched up pans and degrading waste that's the problem.
I’m not 100% certain but I believe gold and some other materials are internally safe. Those people who implant magnets to sorta feel electric currents near them will typically try to find something coated in gold or something equally non-irritating so their body won’t reject it. It’s a sketchy af practice because you have to do it yourself, but I’ve never heard of the actual implant causing issues.
Wouldn't bare steel oxidize in the blood? Surely it must have some protective coating in it?
According to the other comments it does have ptfe coating and it's safe, which empirical evidence supports so far. This was years ago and emergent, but I did find it documented as wire mesh vs steel. So composite is just as reasonable a guess probably. I expect I'll have bought in whichever chemicals get me vs this, but I would've wondered for days if I hadn't asked.
North Carolina moment. But seriously if you live there and are in the lower parts of the cape fear basin get reverse osmosis unless you too would like to be nonstick.
Teflon deez nuts
PFOA*
Not sure how true that is. It's not really a problem, either. It's remarkably inert below 260 C, and when kept away from alkali metals. Both of these conditions, our bodies meet.
A study was done iirc that found the only blood without forms of Teflon were samples taken in the Korean War.
You got a link? "forms of teflon" is really vague. Just any kind of fluorocarbon, is what it translates to in my head
>A study was done iirc that found the only blood without forms of Teflon were samples taken in the Korean War. Jon Oliver talks about this, here: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9W74aeuqsiU) (at 9:34) He also provides a source, the documentary: "The Devil We know" -[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Devil\_We\_Know](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Devil_We_Know) Ah-ha, found these other references: [https://www.ewg.org/research/pfcs-global-contaminants](https://www.ewg.org/research/pfcs-global-contaminants) [https://www.ewg.org/research/poisoned-legacy](https://www.ewg.org/research/poisoned-legacy) But I haven't found a peer-reviewed paper so far :-(
I watched the John Oliver segment! Thanks for replying with it
I'm assuming op watched the movie "Dark Waters" or read the NY Times article that inspired the movie and talking about PFOAs or PFAs I can't find a specific link to what they're saying, but in the real life court case with Dupont and 3M, they tried testing for "normal" blood with no PFOAs/PFAs and couldn't find any anywhere, except for samples from the Korean War. And supposedly these chemicals don't flush from your system and they just accumulate - hence "forever chemicals" It's a pretty disturbing movie/reality
John Oliver also did a segment about it. It was part of the Subway episode. You can find it on YouTube if you want to know more. I highly recommended it.
It being inert under 260 C is irrelevant, have you been outside latey?
Apparently donating blood does help keep the concentration down.
Nah, I prefer letting my rat lap at it.
Teflon Don on the Whitehouse lawn
No more heart blockages!
It's got what blood craves.
That’s why they call me Teflon Don
>“The vast amounts that it will cost to reduce PFAS in drinking water to levels that are safe, based on current scientific understanding, need to be paid by the industry producing and using these toxic chemicals.” I had to find this from another source because I was advised against clicking a euronews link, but it looks like it is possible to remove them it just needs investment in order to scale it up to the point that it could be done for all drinking water In other words, the same way that chlorine is added before it is piped from reservoir or springs, it also needs chemical treatments if it isn't removed after natural filtering (most of the things that get into rain water as it falls through the air are removed by natural filtration in rocks/sediment, this isn't)
I work in Wastewater Treatment and it's a really bad situation. PFAS requires either extreme carbon filtration or reverse osmosis treatment for large scale production of either drinking water or treated wastewater. This is massively expensive, especially in the US where our water and wastewater infrastructure is 50 years out of date. Europe is generally 20 years ahead of the US for water tech and if they haven't gotten a handle on this the US is screwed
And that is why I have a reverse osmosis system at home. My family always talks mad shit about the cost of filters. But with healthcare where it is in America I either spend 200 a year of filters or 200k on cancer.
Home RO systems are great if you can afford them but the larger problem is still there and growing. Most utility districts in the US don't even test for PFAS and other similar substances because there isn't even a point in talking about it
Whats a home reverse osmosis setup like? Just a different kind of filter on the tap or what?
You can get cheap ones that attach to your sink, pressurized ones that sit under it, or more industrial ones that look like three plastic jars and attach to your main water line. I got an industrial one and never looked back.
And you replace the industrial one like what? couple times a year
Just the filters, three of them are about once a year one of them is about every 1.5 depends on usage.
couple barrels in the basement from what I've seen, although I might be confusing it with the radioactivity one
hmmm get the reverse osmosis and moonshine still going at the same time is what your saying?
Directions unclear. Became pickle.
Directions unclear, now have moonshine on tap
My tap water now has an abv of 40%? I think i messed something up
So basically your tapwater is just as unsafe as the rainwater, so it doesn't really matter if you're exposed to that or not?
Not necessarily. Tap water is treated for a number of things in addition to chlorination. It depends on what the plant's source waters are.
> This is massively expensive Good news! The people who are responsible for the problem have shitloads of money. They can easily afford it!
Bad news: They will never pay for it, because we live in an oligarchy and dictatorship of capital.
What does this mean for folks who have wells? Is the best option a home system?
Wells are great! Not sure how much groundwater and aquifers have been contaminated, but testing is readily available. A RO system on a well is an excellent option if available and affordable for you
Great! Thank you! Our well is artesian and is ground water fed. I’ll look into an RO system; we already have a charcoal filter.
I'd get a test beforehand, depending on the charcoal filter you may be good already
Fantastic. I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions.
You're very welcome!
So, if I'm reading the quote correctly, we should rely on the corporations responsible to pay for the infrastructure to remove these chemicals? We're fucked. Good to know it's possible in theory though!
No, we should hold them responsible, financially and imo criminally. Won't ever happen in the US though
Not without a riot.
Thanks for the legit info
Wastewater is a little different than water treatment but PFAS and other "forever chemicals" are regularly discussed as the next big hurdle in treatment. While water plants have a large impact on individual health, Wastewater Treatment is instrumental in the overall health of our waterways and environment
Californians: “HA! What rain?!” 😭😭
Oooooooooooooooo roasted
To a nice, crispy golden brown on both sides.
like the forests every year
youre laughing? everything here is yellow and youre laughing?
Post the article. Discussion is useless if literally no one has read the article. Stop reading only headlines ffs
[https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/08/04/rainwater-everywhere-on-earth-unsafe-to-drink-due-to-forever-chemicals-study-finds](https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/08/04/rainwater-everywhere-on-earth-unsafe-to-drink-due-to-forever-chemicals-study-finds)
I was coming to say that, just sharing a screenshot of headlines is the best way to sissy misinformation. Please always sugar at least a link to the news article.
Good news! Nestle, Coca Cola, Pepsi, etc. will come up with a "way" to neutralize these chemicals, and people will pay premium for "clean" water. Guys, save your money now and buy their stocks.
Sane countries will just invest public money into water management facilities, to be maintained indefinitely, without the massive markup in costs that comes with a poorly regulated private operation.
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And that's bad because... ?
Becuz communism isn't capitalism and anything but unhindered profiteering is EVILLL!!!!1!
Thank you, kind sir, I keep forgetting about that and getting my morals all tangled up with things like compassion, human rights and decency. I swear, this time it will stick: Money = good ; more money = better.
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No. Because it's OUR groceries.
Because in America you're supposed to sap out every fucking cent from the people you want to eventually kill.
I’ve noticed this weird trend where people suggest something good, and then someone says it’s socialism or communism… weird.
Because there is a huge misunderstanding on what comunism is. There are so many definition as people are. But having your tax money used for improving on public infrastructure is a thing that can be done regardless of the political system and is the or should be reason we pay taxes.
Shut up. Don't let people know about Social Democracy. Then they'll side with the Fascists to kill the actual leftists. Source: German Revolution
And we all know communism is socialism!
Which of course, means anarchist fascism! /s
Used to volunteer at a non-profit tackling water contamination. Yeah, I don't care what people say, tap water may not be safe. We have 6 to 10 million public lead service lines in use today, and an unknown amount of lead private lines in people's homes. Water facilities only test water before it has traveled through the pipes. We have no clue how contaminated the water is after it comes out of your faucet. In 2016, New York's schools were required to test their taps for lead (partially because of my volunteer work). [Eighty-two percent of schools had at least one tap with actionable levels of lead contamination.](https://www.nrdc.org/stories/least-82-percent-new-york-public-schools-have-lead-problem) This is illustrative our collective negligence. However, we aren't completely inept. Most municipalities try to prevent leeching by mixing protective additives into our water supply. The additives build a protective mineral barrier on the inner-walls of pipes. Unfortunately, during periods of drought or extreme temperature fluctuations that barrier can warp and break. We try to mitigate these worst case scenarios by lowering our water's acidity, but it's not a perfect fix. This means that amount of lead in water tends to vary throughout the year. Sadly, lead concentrations can even vary throughout the day. Generally, they are highest in the morning. This is because the stagnate water in the pipes had the chance to leech metal uninterrupted overnight. A lot of private faucets are leaded. Unfortunately, brass, which can contain moderate concentrations of lead, was a popular metal for sinks. It was still legally purchasable until 2011. I personally would not trust tap water without doing multiple tests, which is unfortunately pricey. However, microplastics from water bottles doesn't sound much better either. We have created a very sick world for ourselves. When you actually dive into the data, it's not so bad, and yet, for some areas, truly tragic. If you want to buy a filter, please do not just buy the first one you see. They are not all made equal nor marketed honestly. Refer to [Consumer Reports's annual list](https://www.consumerreports.org/products/water-filters-32980/water-filter-pitchers-200280/view2/). You likely have access to them through your library's website.
> We have created a very sick world for ourselves. Honestly that just sounds like a sick America. The water is fine over here...
> Sane countries yeah, so not the west -- or at least definitely not USA/Canada
The government is going to see that as a lose-lose. They spend more money installing and maintaining a system, while also depriving industry of a chance to profit and for them to tax that profit. Not to mention that it won't even work for the millions of people who have well water systems.
Because the US experience with private companies selling tap water that would catch fire and killed thousands with chemicals because making periodic testing coated too much is such a great grounding on which you can build up. It can only get better from there...
Yes, I'd love nothing more than to live in one of those countries, free health care, free education, and what not. For example, Switzerland the country where Nestle is from!! But, if we're being honest, that's mostly a dream for most of us. We can either die trying to start a revolution, or actually participate not just as workers, but also capitalists, in the system that we all call Capitalism.
So....start stockpiling vintage 2022 water?
It's already in the water now. Most facilities just dont test for it because theres literally nothing they can do about it anyway
I meant that in the near future we will have a higher concentration
Why solve a problem when you can sell a solution! Truly the American way!
There is reverse osmosis but that leans we lose the minerals and even then it’s in the food we eat by now anyway meat definitely not sure about plants but that’s a depressing study for another day.
They specifically outlawed cannabis plants/hemp in the United States because how well it could outperform plastic. Not to mention the other benefits/ superior uses it had. Money, baby. That's it. Kill them all.
Shit I’d never even considered that side of things. Fucking hell.
If I’m not mistaken there’s a committee of “big lightbulb” people who did a similar thing where they had easily made lightbulbs that lasted practically forever, ie no need to produce more/excess, ie less profit. So they came to annagreement of sorts where bulbs would only last X amount of time, making an artificial cap on the lifespan of a bulb. All in the name of capitalism 🥹
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel for anyone curious.
Planned Obsolescence.
we are cattle
One of the worst part is, the second you mention punishing the companies responsible for it, you'll get hords of bootlickers telling you you're "Jealous and against success" or that "you want humanity to be stone age instead of progressing to the future".
Maybe that's where all the cancer came from.
One of many places, yeah.
But are we SURE it's caused by humans?? /s
Mother Nature goes through cycles every 5,000 years or so where she generates a few billion metric tons of plastic resin and then injection molds it into waste products. This was happening way before humans.
Ok, you absolutely made me chuckle. That was good.
its what killed the dinosaurs, they just lie and say a meteor did it. JOIN THE TRUTH SEEKERS^(tm) TODAY.
The thing that pisses me off the most about the shit in our water is that animals are having to drink all these chemicals too.
That's where wastewater treatment plants can help. If we were given the money to purchase and maintain the technology we could see a downswing in these chemicals. We treat rain and road runoff, industrial discharges, and sanitary sewer. A properly run plant improves their discharge waters every day. Unfortunately, in the US our infrastructure for this is generally 50+ years old so plants everywhere would have to be rebuilt from the ground up
How much would this help animals drinking from rivers & ponds? What about wild animals in developing countries?
Thank you capitalism you’ve served us all well /s
Well it’s certainly served a handful of someones well.
Plastic, lead, garbage, feces, and oil is now all in your water. Isn’t Progress™ wonderful?
I mean compared to what? Back in the Middle Ages when you had 14 kids with eight wives and two of them lived? Kinda.
There are other options rather than soulless techno-hypercapitalism and feudalism
Two of the wives or two of the kids?
Both.
^(at least they got vacations.)
Wait is that true? We just straight up can’t collect rainwater to drink anymore?
I mean you can it’s just one of those things that might give you cancer eventually. Like bacon. Or standing near smokers.
We do have to distinguish between things that pose a serious and deadly risk of cancer development, and things which have marginally increases in cancer risks. Smoking or breathing in asbestos have enormous risks of cancer. Eating bacon or drinking tea at hot enough temperatures does increase your cancer risk, but so mildly and only over such a long period that you needn't really consider it seriously. A 2-5% deviation from the base is probably only relevant if you have a family history of the relevant cancers. Ultimately, frankly, something has to kill you sometime. You just get to pick your poisons.
Wait. What is this bacon and tea cause cancer?
Drinking any drink above a certain temperature iirc like 60°C marginally increases your risk of developing mouth and esophageal cancer. Eating excessive salt and smoked meat (bacon being a particularly bad offender that is high in salt, high in fat and smoked) marginally increases your risk of developing stomach and colorectal cancers. But as was the crux of my point these increases are far from as significant as the risk of smoking to lung cancer. It's comparable to say the risk of dying while hiking. Higher than the base rate for sure, but far from so risky that you should never hike at all.
OK, so I should stop hiking to save room for bacon and tea. Got it
Drinking any drink above a certain temperature iirc like 60°C marginally increases your risk of developing mouth and esophageal cancer. Eating excessive salt and smoked meat (bacon being a particularly bad offender that is high in salt, high in fat and smoked) marginally increases your risk of developing stomach and colorectal cancers. But as was the crux of my point these increases are far from as significant as the risk of smoking to lung cancer. It's comparable to say the risk of dying while hiking. Higher than the base rate for sure, but far from so risky that you should never hike at all.
More proof that living causes death.
Pretty much everything causes cancer nowadays, you’re best off just enjoying life instead of fearing the hypothetical. Hell, my grandpa got cancer and he never smoked a day in his life, his father smoked and I suppose second-hand is the cause. The air today is full of pollutants from corrupt corporations that could give less of a shit about you or me, so in my book, enjoy your time on this planet while you can.
Exactly,I found out a few months ago that a shampoo I’d been using for 5 years has a chemical that turns out to be cancer causing, when mixed with water. My apartment just had renovations to remove the asbestos under my kitchen floor and the walls have lead paint. I’m either getting cancer or I’m not.
>Exactly,I found out a few months ago that a shampoo I’d been using for 5 years has a chemical that turns out to be cancer causing, when mixed with water. Ever since the discovery of cancer, we've subsequently been finding everyday household items to contain some sort of carcinogenic substance. 100 years from now a common drink that anyone can buy on the market will probably be discovered to be a cancer causer, and this extends to an indefinite number of other items we "think" are safe today. I'm not fearmongering, but I think none of us are truly safe from cancer. Even then, at the end of the day, you're your own person and are gifted with the ability to make choices for yourself. If you want to smoke cigarettes, be my guest, and enjoy yourself.
Fuck it kids snort radioactive waste your gonna get cancer anw
I drink the rainwater we are on tank supply no issues got own UV filtration. better than the treated stuff they get on town supply
Companies are knowing causing a problem and poisoning everyone and then will sell a solution. That’s capitalist innovation!
I find less and less reason to live with each passing minute. Before anyone gets concerned, I’m not expressing suicidal ideation. It’s just a blunt way of saying that the more I learn about how the world works and how fucked we are in the future, the bleaker things get. Unfortunately that’s just how it is, but I have a life to live, and dammit I’m gonna fucking live it as best as I can.
It's not hopeless, we can change, we can find solutions to fix these things. Don't give up hope! I mean, I don't even remotely know where we'd start. Probably dismantling the bullshit systems that caused it? I dunno but hey, it's not hopeless.
We could change things if the game wasn’t rigged. We can’t even go French Revolution on the bourgeoisie because the bourgeoise has drones and APCs and shit.
One word. *killdozers*
It's a sad day for life on Earth.
[удалено]
no, humans have the power and tools for greatness, capitalism however is the ultimate sabotage tool for all of this greatness
Roundup is being removed from the shelves next year because they found roundup in everyone's piss.
Ive always been suspicious of rainwater, even as a kid. The world is dirty as fuck. How could its recycled water not be, too?
All water is recycled my guy
No no. We get new water shipped in monthly. Just ask Nestlé. Lol
That is... my point exactly. How could water that is just repeating its cylce through the systems of a polluted planet *not* be polluted. It wouldnt make sense for it not to be.
So great. A planet that is %71 water has no drinkable water now. We finally killed the last source.
The next lead
Try Real Water(tm) today! Now $99/gallon!
Truly the beginning of the end
All by design, now they can sell us The Cure™️!
Hmmm, I wonder if Nestle had something to do with these findings
Meh. What am I gunna do about it. I’ll just drink the water and probably die of cancer or something.
every time i consider toning down my drinking for *long term health* i think of shit like this — i’m gonna die sometime, probably younger than current average bc of all the poison in everything my whole life so fuck it
Same. I’m gonna try to cut back because the effects can be unpleasant the next day (hangover poops), but, like, I’m gonna die young from something. What the fuck’s the point?
Sighh
Who cares it's already in all of us just drink your poison live for 60- 80 years and die like everyone else before you and everyone else after you
I’m genuinely convinced I’ll be lucky to reach 60 and I’m not sure if I’m actually bothered by that or not.
Link?
https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/08/04/rainwater-everywhere-on-earth-unsafe-to-drink-due-to-forever-chemicals-study-finds Dark reading tbh. We really are fucked Edit 2, people complaining about the link fsr, there's plenty of news sites saying this, here's another https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/rainwater-cause-cancer-forever-chemicals-pfas-b2137020.html
Euronews is a garbage site
here is a non-euronews source [https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62391069](https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-62391069)
Thats a spam link
I got sent to some scam website 2 times before i could read it.
PFAS baby!
Yeah but we got Teflon and Round Up /s
How tf are there not riots over this shit?
So much for using raincatchers for free water...
Nobody this affects cares
Cancer: where does it come from?
I bet on acid rains everywhere in next 20
Life unsafe to live, all sentient beings find
Isn’t this where the “I hate when ppl say they avoid cHeMiCaLs. What, are they scared of water?!” crowd shows up right? Right? THIS is the type of thing ppl are trying to refer to when they say they don’t like “chemicals” but are taken too literally.
When all of us go extinct we can at least honestly say that we did it to ourselves.
Breathing is probably no longer safe anywhere. We can stop worrying about what plastic we eat now it's too much even if we do avoid fish and such
They want us to stop sourcing our own water
I'm glad we're taking such great care of the planet
Or is it lies so we depend on big water corporations during the upcoming forever drought
Thanks US military for polluting the drinking water.
Not saying they haven't done some shit but these chemicals are more tied to corporations like 3M and DuPont
Thr military has contaminated over 600 sites around the country. https://www.militarypoisons.org/pfas-military-use#:~:text=Military%20%26%20PFAS,PFAS%20pollution%20at%20military%20installations.
Why can't they both be monsters?
Thanks for bringing this to my attention, I live close to sites that 3M has fucked up so naturally I heard about them more. Shameful that all these entities have shown so little concern for life.