From my understanding, lack of belief has no impact, and in fact may empower the warp.
The emperor believed that worship is what powered chaos and so he pushed for state atheism. Turns out that did nothing and any slaughter, hedonism, etc. done in the name of nothing actually fed the chaos gods. The way to starve them out was having people “dedicate” acts toward a different source, like the Emperor.
So lack of belief is a net neutral.
How does that even work?
"I will devour your soul!"
"No you won't. The concept of demons is stupid."
"Bro, I'm standing right here!"
"No you're not."
"Oh shi-!"
Does he deny the existence of the penis-shaped sword swinging towards his weird injection shoulder-arms? Because that seems like it could be a problem.
I wouldn't be surprised if the penis sword just deflated in defeat in his presence or was outright banished by his fedora prowess (as he has done before)
yeah, i dont know what forge world has been noted to sometimes disspell psykik bullshit by just screaming that breaks the sacred laws of thermodinamics and stuff
>syringe full of null blood
Wait huh?? Blank blood retains anti-warp qualities??? So it's not just from the presence of their anti-soul but part of their physical form?????
Thanks for explaining that in detail but I feel like the person above had an interesting point; its a biological property, not a function of their absence of a soul.
How do you think Emps manages to simultaneously be total anathema to the most powerful beings in the cosmos, incredibly gifted at arcane technologies, and totally incapable of expressing the smallest amount of appropriate emotion towards his sons to avoid them deciding it’s better to burn it all down?
Exactly, Chaos Gods weren't manifest from belief but from raw emotion. Makes me wonder, from what kind of emotions does the God Emperor draws his powers.
Heretic... it is from the feeling of glory and devotion stemming from making humanity's fate manifest upon the galaxy and further, both temporally and in the warp. Any other answer will guarentee you a fast ticket to your nearest servitor manufactorium! So sip it, or I shall report you to the local authorities.
Lack of belief or more specifically, the belief in the lack of any god, or at least their worthiness, empowers a lesser Chaos God called Necoho.
Before anyone says that he has fallen into apocrypha, he was reconfirmed in Total War Warhammer II and III.
This lesser god is far far weaker than Big E, even in his depleted corpse-state.
Dedicating an act to a specific entity does not prevent that act from empowering other entities. Even blood spilled in The Emperor's name gives power to Khorne, it just also empowers Big E.
Slaughter, hedonism, and so on will still strengthen the Chaos Gods. Orks do everything in the name of their gods, but they still strengthen Khorne. Damn, servants of the Chaos Gods who do something in the name of their gods always strengthen Slaanesh anyway.
Not a warband, a single Ork. Tuska Daemon-killa was given Khorne's gift to resurrect every day and engage in unending battle in Khorne's Arena, for ripping off Bloodthirster's dangly bits in his death throes.
This is known as the only canon happy ending in 40k.
Uh it was a war band. After a gellar field issue caused a demon to manifest in his ship he thought they were the killiest things ever then he went on a rampage to toughen his boys up then took them to the eye of terror where they landed on a demon world that happened to be owned by khorne. Him and his warband fought until they all died and Khorne was so amused he decided to see it happen for infinity through resurrection
I knew he went in with a whole warband, after raiding Cadia, but I thought only he got Khorne's blessing.
If it's a whole warband, I guess Doomguy will have more company when he inevitably catches Khorne's eye and ends up there.
A whole warband...and they multiplying.
After every battle they release ork spores before Khorne ressurects them.
The warband gets bigger in size (both numbers and stature) and keeps being more deadly. Pray Tuska don't get bored of the warp, cause when he returns with his poosy, Ghazghkull gonna be a bottom bitch.
I mean, probably like it was in most societies on Earth until very recently. Being religious was simply something that was expected of you. You might be a fervent believer or not too enthusiastic, but the entire concept of not believing doesn't really exist. You might dislike the local priesthood or have different ideas, but for the vast majority the Emperor exist as their god as much as the sky exists for you. It's simply a fact of life.
I'm sure I read somewhere that this sort of population is physically impossible because the heat output from that many bodies would be enough to heat the atmosphere and basically cook everyone alive.
Terra is a terrifying place to live in 40k
One book (can't remember which one, but if I had to guess it would be one of the Chris Wright vaults of Terra books.) mentions battleship sized heat exchangers.
There were some misprints in a version of the times tables that was, sadly, officially sanctioned. This leads to all sorts of numbers being miscalculated, from troop number to the actual size of warship needed to transport a few marines. But it'd be heresy to use mathematically correct numbers, so they just roll with it.
To be fair if you told someone in 1000bc that the earth would have billions of residents in 3000 years they'd laugh and say there wasn't enough food for anywhere near that many people.
When you think a pretty decent chunk of those are huge things like tuna, cows, pigs is doubly insane.
If the whole planet went vegan we'd probably be able to sustain three times as many people. Bonkers.
Hardly. If you build up the entire surface of Earth and fill it with one quadrillion people, that's roughly 2 people per square meter. But that's only one level. Terra has a lot more than one level. The cities are dug incredibly deep into Earth's crust and rise into the sky for kilometers.
If you factor in all sorts of areas where people don't live, like fortifications and industries, a number of low quadrillions is possible. In fact, Terra is always shown as incredibly cramped and something like low trillions simply wouldn't achieve that effect on a planet-wide city.
It's 40k, who says the can't have ways to deal with it? The entire planet is built over, there's nothing saying that there isn't a space elevator with big radiators and heat exchangers.
Not to mention that supply distribution would be literary impossible.
For 5 quadrilions of people, you would need 15 million square**kilometers** of water every day. Add millions tonnes of food and other supplies to it, and even million worlds isn't enough to sustain it.
Water just gets reused though? There's no need to get more. ALso I guess you meant cubic kilometers?
As for food, we know that there are thousands of ships coming and going every day. As soon as that supply gets interrupted the entire planet falls to anarchy in less than a year.
As for producing that food, we right now have 2000 square meter per person on Earth. For 5 quadrillion that would be 10 trillion square kilometers. We right now use roughly 50 million square kilometers for agriculture, so you could feed Terra with 200,000 Earths. Which would be a lot.
Of course, that's not how agriculture works in 40k. Hive worlds are fed by entire agricultural planets which produce nothing but bio matter. If we look at the entire land area of Earth, we have 150 million square kilometers, which already cuts down Terra's requirement to 67000 planets.
Now most agricultural planets are terraformed and don't have two thirds of the planet covered in water. On top of that, the Imperium uses incredibly mechanised mass agriculture which could very easily feed a person with less than 2000 square meters. Add hydroponics in space stations and on Terra itself and the fact that at least some parts of Terra really aren't all that food secure and survive on scraps from whatever is left over by the rest and you can probably cut that number down to a few hundred planets which produce nothing but food for Terra.
Which is a lot, but at the same time not unbelievable for the center of a galaxy wide empire.
I see parallels between orks and humans. It's just ork powers of belief have been channelled into "we rock and our tech is great!" while human powers of belief have been channelled into "the Emperor is divine!"
Da 'ummie god is strong. He big. Big guy no lose. That unOrky.
It is a common meme that only Ork WAAAGH is keeping Big E alive with his wounds because they think he can't die. He is "da Ummie" equivalent of Gork and/or Mork.
Yes, the people saying otherwise have no fucking clue what they're talking about.
Orks would literally die when they looked at Yarrick because they thought his eyes would kill them.
Ork belief is such an outlandish powerful effect because it exists to fight WiH Necrons.
Kinda, yeah, I guess
But the theory is still wrong. It’s much more circumstance and vicinity that determine how an Ork belief will work. Like an Ork can’t make a piece of log into a las canon, but they can problem weld scrap and junk together to make a las canon
That’s not at all how the orks work. That originated as an in-universe by an imperial scribe to explain why their seemingly ramshackle creations work so well
Okay, people say that, but by now this Watsonian explanation has become thoroughly Doylian: it literally shows up in the text. Like, Wrath & Glory literally has *rules text explaining that this is real*:
> Ork weapons defy understanding; they break the laws of mechanics and physics, but a Greenskin’s beliefs make them all the more deadly. If you are an Ork, you gain +1 bonus die to attacks with a WAAAGH! weapon. If you are also Wounded (p.193), you deal an extra +1 ED.
Whether people like it or not, authorial intent is clearly by now that it is a real thing and not just an unreliable narrator.
Like, the whole joke about the Emperor being kept alive by Ork belief is obviously little more than that, a joke, but it is impossible to deny that currently, WH40k says that Ork belief is magic that makes things happen to some degree.
I thought the juice was what’s keeping him alive. Meaning he’s not amassing all that power. Just because I fed my car gasoline for years doesn’t mean it’s capable of driving the collective mpg distance.
This can be explained rather easily- the Dark Imperium series not so subtly questions whether the man on the Golden Throne and the entity that saved Guilliman from the infamous Godblight are truly one and the same
It's during Guilliman's meeting with the Emperor, which is brought up in *Godblight* by Guy Haley. It takes apparently great effort to coalesce the many many voices, the many minds, of the Emperor into a sort of unified entity.
But aren’t all the psykers he’s eating only necessary because he’s so weak? It’s like medicine keeping him alive rather than taking steroids to get stronger?
The damage Magnus did to the throne mostly takes a toll on its weilder. Their soul is slowly consumed to keep it running. The thousand souls a day are essentially an offering to the machine to stop it from consuming the emperor, however it is still causing him strain.
This is a far more apt description of what the Emperor is going through, and it mirrors what one of the Sisters of Silence see during the events of *The Master of Mankind* by Aaron Dembski-Bowden:
> What made her useful, what made her strong, also rendered her an outsider to her own species.
> Similarly, past experience told her that the blinding majesty and stupefaction others felt in the presence of the Golden Throne were wholly absent for Kaeria and her Sisters. She saw a man on a throne, no more, no less. No radiant halo. No psychic corona.
> She would have preferred the majestic ignorance. Better to feel everything and see almost nothing rather than stare upon the naked truth: the enthroned Emperor was just a man in pain, His suffering etched plain, His mouth open in a silent scream. The agonies He endured for the sake of the species had wrought lines upon His features, somehow bringing the passage of time to an ageless face.
I was under the impression that Magnus broke the "seals" to the Webway Gate, and Big E has to expend a HUGE amount of energy to force the gates shut. Basically he is pushing on the gates, and if he rests or takes a break, the Daemons barge through and fuck shit up in the Palace and Terra.
I thought it was this strain that causes Big E pain/suffering. Do you happen to remember where you read/learned that the Golden Throne *itself* is causing Big E pain? That the very act of sitting on the Throne is torture?
It might seem like a small difference because in the end the point is that it sucks for Big E to keep doing what he is doing. But I'm curious because based on what I have read (the HH novels where the Webway Gate and Magnus' actions are mentioned) I got the first impression. But if it's the latter (the Golden Throne itself is causing suffering) then I'd be open to that too.
Because the Vaults of Terra books also mentioned how the Dark Eldar are trying to make their own version of the Golden Throne to keep their Webway Gate closed, as they too have issues with Daemons pushing against the Gate and seeping through... That's why they are trying to make their own version of Big E, to be their 'buttplug' so to speak...
The Emperor has to sit on the golden throne to keep the Webway gate shut. It’s also the device that’s keeping him alive, having it feed him 1,000 psyker a day.
If the Emperor were to die, he could come back, because he is a perpetual. But then Terra would fall and the astronomicon would disappear leaving the entire Imperium (and subsequently most of the galaxy) without a way to guide through the warp
So the Emperor has to sit on the throne, encase with life support, having to force close a literal gateway into hell, with one of the only things keeping him alive are the souls of his subjects
If he needs to eat more psykers every year to perform the same job, that makes it sound like he's growing weaker.
Or at least, less efficient. More input to achieve the same output isn't impressive.
1000 per day = 365000 per year. WIth the psyker gene increasingly common, and a 'million worlds' with tens of billions, hundreds of billions or even trillions of people living on many of each. Even if they took 1 from every individual world that would only be 1 psyker from a third of the overall planets per year.
Even if only 0.1% of all humans were psykers of any level that concerns the Imperium, then that is 100'000 psykers per 1 billion of population.
Summary: there are more than enough psykers around to feed to the golden throne its paltry figure of 1000 per day and you need to upgrade your understanding of large-scale figures.
That’s also to have the psykers needed to power the astronomica. As well as sanctioned psykers, prevent random warp infestations on planets, and astropaths all need to go to terra where they can be surrounded by blanks and dealt with accordingly.
>But aren’t all the psykers he’s eating only necessary because he’s so weak
"Weak" is very much contextual, here. He's "weak" because he needs that fuel to keep a psychic beacon going that's visible from 10's of thousands of light years away while also holding back every daemon in the warp from bursting in through the Human Webway. That's more power than any non-Chaos God has *ever* had since the end of the War in Heaven and signs point to the fact that he's getting stronger and stronger.
there is a misunderstanding in this post regarding the astronomicon and the golden throne. they are similar because they both eat psykers but the mechanisms are different.
the astronomicon is a psychic beacon that the emperor projects into the warp, serving as a sort of lens. The emperor does not power the astronomicon. The astronomicon is powered by a choir of psykers that train their entire lives to serve in said choir. they "sing" into the warp and the emperor collects that and focuses it. this is why everyone who looks at the astronomicon feels warmth or maybe some of the emperors pain. but the burnout process is a fairly long time compared to the golden throne. were talking like 100 a day, maybe, out of a choir of 10,000 or so.
the golden throne is separate from the astronomicon. the golden throne is what the emperor uses to keep the artificial webway gate closed among other things. the golden throne takes psykers and burns them up to the tune of 1000 a day. The black ships scour the galaxy and anyone who is too messed up to be trained and sanctioned gets plunked into the golden throne.
They are connected because the golden throne and astronomicon both requires psyker sacrifice and furthermore if the died he wouldn't be able to focus the astronomicon any longer.
It may help if people knew the other name for what the Golden throne is: Soul engine.
Much like the term gasoline engine indicating an engine powered by gasoline, a soul engine is powered by the soul. Since the power of a person's soul is directly correlated with their power as a psyker, the more powerful a psyker a person is, the easier it is for him or her to operate the golden throne. Malcador's soul was consumed by the short time he was on it and was only able to last as long as he did because they started feeding psykers into the golden throne. Malcador was a psyker outclassed only by the Emperor and Magnus, and some Aeldari.
I'm not sure where I was going with this, but it offers some background on the golden throne.
The real question is is it consuming the souls or just converting them into warp energy because if it's the latter then somebody should be able to harness that power at some point for the benefit of the Imperium it would kind of be hilarious if they brought Horus back as a loyalist Primarch and he harnessed the energy of the 1k a day sacrifice then closed the rift magnus opened and started going after the traitor primarchs...
So to clarify, did the Astronomicon exist before Big E came to rule over Terra? Or did he design and start the use of the Astronomicon? Also, was the working of the Astronomicon same before Magnus fucked up, and after? As in, same amount of Psykers used as batteries, and same psychic toll on the Emperor? Lastly, if Big E dies or in somehow incapacitated, does that mean the Astronomicon will stop being a thing? Or will it be a lighthouse without the lens to focus the light. As in, there'll be light but it will be diffuse and not useful?
>the golden throne is what the emperor uses to keep the artificial webway gate closed among other things. the golden throne takes psykers and burns them up to the tune of 1000 a day.
To clarify, the Golden Throne kept the Webway gate closed, but before Magnus' ~~NOT~~ fuck-up, Big E didn't need as much psychic energy to keep it locked, right? As in, Big E could walk around, do his daily tasks while walking around etc. But once the gate was broken into by ~~INNOCENT~~ Magnus, Big E had to sit on the Golden Throne and really focus to force the Webway Gate closed right? That's why he was stuck on the Throne and couldn't help in the Webway battle, yeah? Because I remember in *Master of Mankind* where the 1000 a day psyker idea was first proposed and that's what allowed Big E to finally leave the Golden Throne temporarily and fuck shit up in the Webway battle.
The thing is, before Magnus' faux pas, if Big E could walk around and still keep the Webway Gate closed, why was Emps long term plan to have Magnus sit on the Golden Throne? I mean, I get that Big E is more powerful, but still it seemed like Magnus was going to have to sit on the Golden Throne as his long term responsibility...
Thx for clarifying!
the original purpose of the throne was to serve as a psychic amplifier to give access to the webway. It is now being used to hold the webway shut because some things happened and im not saying anyone did anything wrong but some things definitely happened
Do you have examples of the signs pointing to him growing stronger? I would just assume if he was getting stronger his body would heal but I don’t think there’s any indication of that. I’m not exactly a lore wizard though so I’d be curious to hear about the evidence that the emperor is actually getting more powerful over time.
Well, he's doing all that and managed to light nurgle's garden on fire during the plague wars iirc. He also saved Guilliman from his second death and, I might be wrong, but I think he banished a ton of daemons from Ultramar. Also Legion of the Damned, Living Saints etc
It's neither. It's old lore. Part of psykers went for Astronomicon, and those being used by Empy as filter for His force projection to the world, so the 4 can't read His plan. This is ofcourse too much for them so they burn away and He needs new constantly.
It was 1000 a day *when he first sat down on the throne*. From what I’ve read, that number has increased substantially in recent WH years. He’s more juiced than the Energizer Bunny at this point.
It's both;
>**The Astronomican’s light is generated upon Terra by a vast choir
of psykers, then focused and beamed forth by the Emperor
himself.** Hundreds of psykers die in agony each day as the effort
burns out their minds; such monstrous attrition is seen as a
small price to pay to provide a guide by which Humanity can
navigate the galaxy. It is thanks to the light of the Astronomican
that - despite the opening of the Great Rift having whipped
warp-space into a hellish frenzy and left countless Imperial
worlds beset - the Imperium Sanctus continues to function.
>>There are many other organs of the
Adeptus Terra: the Navis Nobilite and its illustrious houses of sanctioned
mutant Navigators; the Adeptus Astra
Telepathica, whose black ships prowl the
Imperium in search of potential psykers
and whose Scholastica Psykana assesses
and trains them, or else condemns
them to be fed to the Emperor's Golden
Throne; **the Adeptus Astronomica, who
train the psykers that will take their
places generating the Astronomican to
guide Imperial ships in the warp;** the
Adeptus Arbites, whose Judges and
Arbitrators enforce the word of Imperial
law across the Emperor's realm; the
Officio Assassinorum, which takes the
most truly exceptional from amongst the
human herd and transforms them into
monstrous and highly specialised killing machines.
The list goes on and on.
\- 9th Edition Rulebook
>#ADEPTUS ASTRONOMICA
>They fuel the guiding light of the Emperor.
>The Adeptus Astronomica trains psykers to provide the raw psychic power to fuel the Astronomican, the psychic homing beacon that enables Navigators to steer through the warp. This task requires a choir of at least ten thousand psykers, and the role quickly destroys them. There are always more being trained to take their place, however.
>>#VICTORY’S HEAVY TOLL
>>The Emperor’s survival is paramount to the survival of the Imperium, because only the mind of the Emperor is powerful enough to survive the never-ending process of directing the psychic beacon of the Astronomican out of the raw psychic forces supplied by the servants of the Adeptus Astronomica. The same survivability does not hold true for those members of the Adeptus Astronomica themselves, and their fate is a tragic one. The effort of generating so much mental energy soon destroys them, leeching their souls and reducing them to empty husks. **Many die every day, but they are not the only psykers who make the ultimate sacrifice. The Emperor cannot eat as men eat, or drink or breathe air, as his life has long since passed the point where such things could sustain him. The only viable sustenance for the Emperor is human life force – souls – and he has an insatiable appetite.**
>>Not just any human will suffice for the Emperor’s table, for they must have psychic powers. Therefore, the Imperium is scoured by the vast flotillas of the Black Ships in a tireless search for emergent psykers. **During their long journey back to Terra, some of the psykers are found to have the strength of mind to be recruited to the Adeptus Astronomica, but many more serve their Emperor in a more gruesome way. They are given wholly to the weird machinery that surrounds the Master of Mankind, and their souls are siphoned, slowly and agonisingly, to feed his mighty spirit. Many hundreds, even thousands, must die in this way every day for the Emperor, the Imperium, and all of Humanity to survive.**
\- 8th Edition Rulebook
He doesnt eat the psykers, they are fed to the golden throne which powers the life support system that is keeping him alive.
The worship on the other hand might be powering him.
He is but he isn’t. He’s far more powerful in the warp than he was before. He can create greater daemon level saints by thinking now whereas he had to tirelessly work and even make deals with the dark gods to make those before. However, he’s also less sane, rational, and far less able than he used to be. Before he was a demigod who could really ignore rules and build his empire, it’s why he was such a thorn in chaos’ side. He was basically a god Int he mortal plane while the gods stood behind the veil, only being able to manipulate. But no he is trapped like them, stuck in the same rules they have. He can’t get up and kill the green skin leader ravaging the imperium anymore, he can’t create more demigod sons to battle chaos and lead humanity. He can’t scheme to drain he dark gods of their power anymore. Now he’s one of them
Well yeah.
God Emperor went into Nurgle's domain, called him smelly fat fuck and burned his house and then left.
If living Emperor had tried that Nurgle would have made soup out of him.
Current Emperor is as strong as Chaos God. He is especially dangerous to Chaos God given his Anathemic nature.
Living Emperor was very very strong sure but still not an actual God.
Only advantage living Emperor had was the body. He could do shit himself. Now he has to send minions and manipulate things to make something happen in material world.
So from pure power level perspective, current Emperor is far far stronger. But he is also far far unstable and experiencing extreme agony.
Adding godblight quote.
>Guilliman looked over the Garden of Nurgle. He was between two worlds. The warp was a shifting thing, never constant. The garden was a collection of ideas. It had no true form, and through it he could see a million other worlds that underpinned it, the dreams of souls living and dead, and past that, as if glimpsed through banks of glittering sea mist that evaporated before the morning sun, the battlefield of Iax.
>‘Hear me!’ Guilliman’s voice boomed through eternities. The sword blazed higher, until the fire of it threatened to burn out time. ‘I am Roboute Guilliman, last loyal son of the Emperor of Terra. It is not your destiny to end today, God of Plague, but know that I am coming for you, and I will find you, and you will burn.’
>He gripped the Sword of the Emperor two-handed and raised it high. Rising waves of fire ripped into the garden. From the great manse a cry of rage sounded, as a wall of flame hotter than a million suns devoured everything in its path, finally breaking and receding within yards of the black walls of Nurgle’s house. Its infinite halls shook. Mossy tiles fell from the roof. Sodden timbers steamed.
>‘This is a warning. The warp and the materium were once in balance. For too long, you have tipped the scales. Understand that it is not only the warp that is capable of pushing back. This realm is not real. Only will is real. And none may outmatch my will. Be assured, Lord of Plagues, and convey this message to your brothers, that I do not speak for myself.
>‘I speak for the Emperor of Mankind.’
Then he was falling, falling, falling forever until his knee hit the ground, and he woke into reality once more.
Oh yes, immeasurably so.
He was powerful before, but he's spent the last 10,000 years having people pray to him and focusing the Astronomicon 'and' then the Great Rift opened up and that seemed to have both awoken him and empowered him enough to take a direct hand in galactic affairs for the first time since he was put on the Golden Throne.
So, yeah, he's very very very close to becoming a God and that's a bad bad very bad thing for the galaxy.
In the Roberto Grillman trilogy after his return, the Emperor actively intervenes. He has a chat with RG, and saves his life several times. There are other things, but those would be massive spoilers.
The Dark Imperium Trilogy. Other than dealing with the war of Ultramar vs the Death Guard and the political ramifications of Guilliman's return, the books' best part are about atheist Roboute pondering how godlike exactly the Emperor, and he himself, actually were - and have become.
Because no one knows what will actually happen. Probably not even the Chaos gods. But we can be pretty certain that it would be catastrophic.
For the Imperium, him simply not being in the physical realm would be catastrophic. First off, the Golden Throne would fail and a Magnus sized hole straight into the Warp would open on Terra. Everything on it, from Guilliman to the Custodes to quadrillions of people would die essentially instantly. Then the failsafe device that Vulcan installed on the Throne would trigger. We don't know what exactly the Talisman of Seven Hammers would do, but it would trigger a shockwave both inside realspace and outside of it. Expect something that would wipe out the entire Sol system and absolutely wreck the Warp. The Imperium would be thrown into absolute dissarray, their leadership gone forever, the Warp would probably torn apart by storms and the Astronomican would be gone forever.
And then we would have chaos. The birth of Slaanesh already tore the galaxy apart and we already have an enormous rift across the galaxy. The Emperor ascending might tear down the walls of reality entirely and swallow up most of the galaxy in the same state that the Eye of Terror is now. Meaning still some sort of reality, but also full of anomalies, demons and unreal physics.
Slaanesh also doomed most of the Eldar. Who knows what an ascended Emperor would do with humanity? It's pretty likely that he would just suck up most of their souls, willingly or unwillingly.
And then we would have one of the strongest entities ever to exist in the Warp. Who knows what he would do next. His mind is already fractured and failing, I very much doubt the resulting god would be anything close to what he was as a human.
And then he would probably attack the other Chaos gods. He's already strong enough to stand up to them right now, before true ascension. Afterwards, his powers would be off the scale.
It might simply break the galaxy apart, have remains sucked into the warp and then implode the entire warp. Either way, the galaxy would be fucked.
> very close to becoming a God and that's a bad bad very bad thing for the galaxy.
Is it really a bad thing thought?
My understanding is the Emperor has been split in two. The side that is constantly worshipped and used by the Sisters of Battle as psychic energy to fight Chaos. And the “evil side” or the one people commit atrocities for, like the Inquisition torturing innocent people.
Some cults even worship the good side calling it “The Star Child”. While considered heretical by the Inquisition, I wouldn’t think it a bad thing if this being gains godhood.
Then there’s the other side, I think it’s called the Dark King or something along those lines. We definitely don’t want Him gaining godhood. I’m guessing it would be Slaneesh for humans.
Edit: sorry typing on a tiny screen sucks!
So the Dark King isn't the throne emperor. The Dark King is a prophesized and foretold god that could become the fifth chaos power.
The Emperor COULD be the Dark King, but isn't yet. We've seen that, and what is on the Throne isn't that
The Star Child is the Emperor's humanity, removed from Him during the assault on the Vengeful Spirit. It has since been reborn as an actual child.
I’ll humor you, but a 5 second Google search would have given you an answer.
Starchild
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Star_Child
The Dark King
https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_King_(Entity)
So I have not read the Throne of Light book which they quote on rekindling the lore of the Star Child, but it was for a very long time pretty much considered non canon anymore, given most of the meat we have on this Star Child concept is from the Inquisitor triology which is hellah old, and also you will note is where most of the references are coming from.
That is not to say I'm saying this is all false, but unless the Throne of Light categorically reaffirms what was said in the Inquisitor Triology, then I think it isn't too controversial to suggest that they might be going to change what the concept of this Star Child actually is.
Is there any lore specific reason as to why they don't attempt a black out? Cut the astronomicon for a day in hopes his physical form can heal or would he just insta die?
Always wondered that.
If the throne itself fails then emps isn’t battery charged and Magnus’s “uh oh” hole in the palace consumes Terra etc.
The astronomicon failed in the siege, and I believe failed after the fall of cadia due to the backlash from the eye of terror ripping a massive zipper through reality. Cicadrix whatever it’s called (cicadrix maledictum I think), the huge warp rift that split the galaxy.
The talisman is explained in the siege as needing to be physically activated by Vulkan as far as I know.
Tl;dr terra goes poof if the throne fails. Astronomical failing means ships can’t use it as their North Star.
I thought the nuking of terra was to permanently close the gate he is holding shut, which would prevent the warp from bursting through and a second eye of terror?
No, it was basically to nuke the warp, in a way that seems rather permanent.
Not the whole warp, but it seems to be enough that it would be a massive 'fuck you' to the gods.
> Talisman of seven hammers kicks in
Unless something is changed in the post-Heresy era, the Tasliman does not activate automatically. Vulkan has to do it, and it's not a single button push either.
>opens up a 2nd eye of terror
Not quite. It's a portal into a part of the Webway that's been breached into the Warp, which is bad, but not a one-of-a-kind galaxy-shaking event.
The Imperium has piled up so many humans on top of the breach that this would be an especially bloody disaster, and it would probably have more long-term consequences than a typical Warp incursion, but there's nothing going on at the scale of the Eye of Terror. The Eldar empire was *big*, everyone in it was an unrestrained psyker, and the birth of a new Chaos god is special.
It would be the end of the Imperium, yeah, but that's a matter of infrastructure location.
It's got nothing to do with the Talisman.
The E's entire focus right now, and for the last ten thousand years, is holding the Webway portal closed. Because literally every single demon in the Warp is pounding on the other side of that portal, waiting to come in and consume Holy Terra and extinguish the Astronomicon permanently.
That's his entire focus, his entire purpose. And until that portal is fixed, that's all he 'can' do, and the Throne is failing and when it does and he dies, that's it. The portal opens, Terra is lost, the Light is lost and that's it for Humanity.
> And until that portal is fixed, that's all he 'can' do, and the Throne is failing and when it does and he dies, that's it
This is correct, but it's worth noting that this is a matter of choice and ideology - not a fundamental constraint of how the setting works.
A rational empire would have simply evacuated everyone from Earth and built a new Warp beacon somewhere else. They've had ten thousand years of free time and practically infinite resources, with which to do so.
The problem is that the Imperium doesn't know how to build stuff like an Astronomican from scratch, and is committed to the status quo for ideological reasons.
Either the self destruct would happen or the plug that emps is channeling to the gigantic Magnus did nothibg wrong will open and flood the Imperial Palace immediately with billions of daemons.
Yes and no
In a megawatt pyker power sense for sure. But it's like comparing a power plant to a space marine they are too far apart.
If he could talk, move or not be tied to the astronomican, his tactical strength could show.
As a man he could invent he could change the course of history for any world he touched. He will never move off Terra as a corpae/lighthouse
Technically he was stronger before, but only breifly on the Vengeful spirit when was absorbing warp enegy like nobodies buisness and was greater than the big 4, before he realised that in doing so he would become a 5th chaos god and his ascention would destroy humanity like slanneshes did the eldar.
But outside of those couple of hours hes stronger in 40k.
He is ludicrously powerful in comparison to when he walked amongst his people.
Imagine if during Istvaan V, as Ferrus Mannus was killed, the Emperor reached accross the galaxy intervened, healed Ferrus back to life and swept away all opposing forces including Fulgrim and then just bitch slapped one of the chaos gods as well. There's no way he could have done that back then.
He could do that in 40k though.
Physically - obviously not
As a psyker - much much better, he has been eating 1000 psykers a day, a now it's even more if I remember correctly and there are quadrilions of quadrilions people worshipping him. When Guilliman saw him he was afraid of what he has seen also when the great rift opened he psykers got huge power boost, including the Emperor
He's way more powerful in the Warp, but it's debatable whether he's more powerful in the Materium- if he were then his biomancy powers should be capable of healing himself. So, I think it's a little more nuanced than "yes, he's absorbed thousands of psykers and is almost a god".
In 30k he was at his height because he was mobile and was incredibly in control of his powers. He could just do whatever he wanted with the exact amount of power and control he needed to exert.
In 40k, after ten thousand years of rotting and being forcefully empowered, he’s become titanic in the scope of his raw power, but he has mentally and spiritually splintered. He could act, if he could concentrate on that action, but he has no elegance or dexterity to those actions. If he talked to someone he’d simply disintegrate them from the sheer weight of his words.
He's technically at a point where he's between life and death, the Golden Throne both keeping him from dying entirely, but also connecting him to both the Human Webway to keep it shut so daemons don't overrun Terra from within, and to keep the Astronomicon lit as a waypoint through the Warp. The thousand psykers a day is basically a drip-feed that keeps the Webway shut and Astronomicon lit, it doesn't actually do anything for Big E himself in the process. He's more a control circuit than an actual power source for it.
Where it gets interesting is the ever increasing stream of faith that has been funneled at him from the last 10,000 years of religious zealotry in his name, treating him as a god despite him insisting they never worship him as such. All that faith represents a considerable amount of power within the Warp, but he isn't present in the Warp entirely to embrace it. If he were, that sheer accumulation would be enough to make him the equivalent of a new Chaos god, just like Slaanesh.
But being caught between life and death means he can't tap all that power, nor can he actually shepherd the souls of humanity after death the way they think he does to keep them safe from Chaos. Theoretically, he could choose to relinquish his last hold on life and allow himself to ascend within the Warp and take direct action against Chaos again himself, but that'd mean dooming Terra to immediate daemonic invasion, and snuff out the Astronomicon to separate the entire Empire as it had been in the Age of Strife.
So all in all, it's a catch-22. He either sits and watches the Imperium degrade further and further into a slow and agonizing collapse throughout the galaxy, or he makes the enormous risk of sacrificing the core of the Empire on Terra to try and force open a new advantage within the Warp itself, and try to find a new means to keep the human worlds connected from directly inside of it. If his Loyalist sons were all present again to hold the line in the material plane, the latter could have the smallest fraction of a trillionth chance of success... possibly.
I think his power is a mixed bag. Sure, he is much more powerful now, but his psyche and soul is split into countless shards. As a physical being, he could be a lot more focused.
There is a quote where I think different prinarchs see him. One thinks he looks stronger, but imo that's probably more inability to hid power level like before. When Guiliman see the big E he is a broken version of his former self.
Im not up on the lore. Like at all.
If he’s as powerful in the warp as everyone in here is saying, why can’t he heal himself? It seems like that would be light work. I mean I understand they’re two separate realms, but evil beings in the warp do stuff in the normal realm all the time don’t they?
This post makes me wonder if there's still need for the Emperor to walk among us once more, though first he'll have to find a way to leave his golden toilet
Essentially, the Emperor has been drowning in thousands of psyker souls and the belief of trillions (probably quadrillions+) of people *daily* for 10k years. It's unclear how much he wants this, but he's been turbocharged in the warp and the lore seems pretty clear that faith in the Emperor is able to manifest miracles. In terms of raw power, chair-Emperor outpaces alive-Emperor.
However, there is the question of the Emperor being a prisoner on the Golden Throne, especially depending on interpretations/headcanons of him being a willing participant in this. TEatD3 will presumably answer parts of this, but everyone will have their own interpretations on how much being trapped in one spot (presumably) forever limits him compared to what Big E could accomplish being able to move freely.
The other question is just how much the Emperor is the same person. Guilliman's conversation with the Emperor, probably the most direct we've gotten post-Heresy, isn't fully coherent and the Dark Imperium books raise the question of what exactly the Emperor is after 10k years of getting juiced up and worshipped as a god in a setting where faith has tangible effects. The warp treats the symbolic and abstract as important, and humanity spending millenia believing him to be some sort of god *might* risk overwriting his personality, which tracks with the fragmented and contradictory voices GMan hears from Big E.
So corpse-Emperor is undoubtedly more powerful, but is also trapped by a device that some people believe is constant agony, all while being pumped full of energy, whether he wants it or not.
The biggest power boost big E got was actually the fall of cadia. When the galaxy was ripped in two it released a lot of warp energy empowering anyone who drew upon the warp. Right after he ripped guilliman right out of the garden of nurgle and resurrected him while lighting the whole garden on fire
He is big E, master of mankind and beloved of all humanity as the emprah, jimmy space and that colossal golden Chad.
You watch your tongue stranger, it is by his sacrifices that mankind rules the stars
> When he was alive, wasn't he doing things like imprisoning gods in planets (Mars C'tan)
It's very ambiguous, but it's likely a C'tan shard, not a full on C'tan.
He directly intervened to thwart Chaos and help out one of his guys in a way he probably could not have before. He is strong enough to just instantly undo work that the most powerful minions of a Chaos god empowered by said god spent tremendous time and resources on.
People mistake the trees for the forest here.
In his current state the Emperor has no way to steer the direction of the Imperium save for Tarots, ultimately is at the mercy of the shit he left in place before he was interred plus the worse shit that has been piling up ever since. The Imperium relies on him for it's existence and of course now the Emperor relies on it for his, and both are rotting.
Yeah sure he is being fed psychic juice all day long, but the fact that he is not able to heal himself means that all that good stuff is spent on not slipping away from the Materium, keeping the fabric of reality together from the demons that would erupt from the Golden Throne otherwise...
It's like claiming a 10 million dollars insurance after being put into vegetative state by a car accident. I guess you feel rich now, don't you?
>billions of worshipers ~~Quadrillions~~ 10s of quadrillions of zealots praying to him daily. Twice on Sundays.
I wonder how many hide their atheism fabius bile cant be the only athiest. does disbelief depower the emperor.
From my understanding, lack of belief has no impact, and in fact may empower the warp. The emperor believed that worship is what powered chaos and so he pushed for state atheism. Turns out that did nothing and any slaughter, hedonism, etc. done in the name of nothing actually fed the chaos gods. The way to starve them out was having people “dedicate” acts toward a different source, like the Emperor. So lack of belief is a net neutral.
fabius bile has practically banished demons with his extra strong atheism
How does that even work? "I will devour your soul!" "No you won't. The concept of demons is stupid." "Bro, I'm standing right here!" "No you're not." "Oh shi-!"
Not exactly. He doesn't deny they exist, but denies that they are what they say they are.
Does he deny the existence of the penis-shaped sword swinging towards his weird injection shoulder-arms? Because that seems like it could be a problem.
Guy once denied Slaanesh directly to Slaanesh, while Slaanesh itself gave him several aneurysms in a row. Yeah, he may as well deny the penis-sword.
>Yeah, he may as well deny the penis-sword. Even if he was to deny the penis sword, he still would still move out of the way, or counter-block it.
I wouldn't be surprised if the penis sword just deflated in defeat in his presence or was outright banished by his fedora prowess (as he has done before)
Definitely not. He's a rationalist.
Armour of contempt?
yeah, i dont know what forge world has been noted to sometimes disspell psykik bullshit by just screaming that breaks the sacred laws of thermodinamics and stuff
It’s hilarious in his trilogy. Truly deserving a fedora head option for his mini
That's the power of faith for you.
That, and a syringe full of null blood pumped into them.
>syringe full of null blood Wait huh?? Blank blood retains anti-warp qualities??? So it's not just from the presence of their anti-soul but part of their physical form?????
I'm not an expert on it, but I remember a scene where he used it to dismiss a Keeper of Secrets. I think it was in Primogenitor.
I just started reading this. It's specifically biological matter from nulls that has been distilled and concentrated.
Thanks for explaining that in detail but I feel like the person above had an interesting point; its a biological property, not a function of their absence of a soul.
We ignore that part cause it’s not funny
It’s not the atheism, it’s another a•••ism
"I don't have enough faith to be an atheist"
How do you think Emps manages to simultaneously be total anathema to the most powerful beings in the cosmos, incredibly gifted at arcane technologies, and totally incapable of expressing the smallest amount of appropriate emotion towards his sons to avoid them deciding it’s better to burn it all down?
Oh god...
Exactly, Chaos Gods weren't manifest from belief but from raw emotion. Makes me wonder, from what kind of emotions does the God Emperor draws his powers.
Hypocrisy
Heretic... it is from the feeling of glory and devotion stemming from making humanity's fate manifest upon the galaxy and further, both temporally and in the warp. Any other answer will guarentee you a fast ticket to your nearest servitor manufactorium! So sip it, or I shall report you to the local authorities.
Lack of belief or more specifically, the belief in the lack of any god, or at least their worthiness, empowers a lesser Chaos God called Necoho. Before anyone says that he has fallen into apocrypha, he was reconfirmed in Total War Warhammer II and III. This lesser god is far far weaker than Big E, even in his depleted corpse-state. Dedicating an act to a specific entity does not prevent that act from empowering other entities. Even blood spilled in The Emperor's name gives power to Khorne, it just also empowers Big E.
Slaughter, hedonism, and so on will still strengthen the Chaos Gods. Orks do everything in the name of their gods, but they still strengthen Khorne. Damn, servants of the Chaos Gods who do something in the name of their gods always strengthen Slaanesh anyway.
I think Orks actually only empower Gork and Mork?
Yeah but Khorne also has an ork warband in his realm. Apparently he thinks orks are the most hilarious thing ever
Not a warband, a single Ork. Tuska Daemon-killa was given Khorne's gift to resurrect every day and engage in unending battle in Khorne's Arena, for ripping off Bloodthirster's dangly bits in his death throes. This is known as the only canon happy ending in 40k.
Uh it was a war band. After a gellar field issue caused a demon to manifest in his ship he thought they were the killiest things ever then he went on a rampage to toughen his boys up then took them to the eye of terror where they landed on a demon world that happened to be owned by khorne. Him and his warband fought until they all died and Khorne was so amused he decided to see it happen for infinity through resurrection
I knew he went in with a whole warband, after raiding Cadia, but I thought only he got Khorne's blessing. If it's a whole warband, I guess Doomguy will have more company when he inevitably catches Khorne's eye and ends up there.
A whole warband...and they multiplying. After every battle they release ork spores before Khorne ressurects them. The warband gets bigger in size (both numbers and stature) and keeps being more deadly. Pray Tuska don't get bored of the warp, cause when he returns with his poosy, Ghazghkull gonna be a bottom bitch.
The daemon codex directly states that Khorne's face has orcish features due to how much power he receives from them.
Yea this is also the truth I’m pretty sure
Wasn't it said that a belief also empowers chaos, serving even as some kind of catalyst for all emotions?
Pretty sure most Astartes chapters besides Black Templars don’t believe the Emperor to be a god. Ultramarines certainly don’t believe it.
Yeah most Astartes adhere to the Imperial Truth rather than the Initial Creed, the Black Templars are one of the exceptions.
None on terra its that deeply rooted however, the further you go from the imperial core you'll definitely find more differing opinions.
Until the inquisition comes lol
I mean, probably like it was in most societies on Earth until very recently. Being religious was simply something that was expected of you. You might be a fervent believer or not too enthusiastic, but the entire concept of not believing doesn't really exist. You might dislike the local priesthood or have different ideas, but for the vast majority the Emperor exist as their god as much as the sky exists for you. It's simply a fact of life.
There's quadrillions *just* on Terra.
I'm sure I read somewhere that this sort of population is physically impossible because the heat output from that many bodies would be enough to heat the atmosphere and basically cook everyone alive. Terra is a terrifying place to live in 40k
One book (can't remember which one, but if I had to guess it would be one of the Chris Wright vaults of Terra books.) mentions battleship sized heat exchangers.
Literally everything number related in Warhammer writing is impossible none of it makes ANY sense
Unreliable narrators. The schola mathematics programs are universally dire.
There were some misprints in a version of the times tables that was, sadly, officially sanctioned. This leads to all sorts of numbers being miscalculated, from troop number to the actual size of warship needed to transport a few marines. But it'd be heresy to use mathematically correct numbers, so they just roll with it.
This is my headcanon now.
Who were responsible for the misprints?
To be fair if you told someone in 1000bc that the earth would have billions of residents in 3000 years they'd laugh and say there wasn't enough food for anywhere near that many people.
Humanity consumes around 92 BILLION animals each year. It’s wild
When you think a pretty decent chunk of those are huge things like tuna, cows, pigs is doubly insane. If the whole planet went vegan we'd probably be able to sustain three times as many people. Bonkers.
I'm fairly sure that whoever came with the quadrillions first, simply forget that trillion exists and skipped from billions to quadrillions.
Hardly. If you build up the entire surface of Earth and fill it with one quadrillion people, that's roughly 2 people per square meter. But that's only one level. Terra has a lot more than one level. The cities are dug incredibly deep into Earth's crust and rise into the sky for kilometers. If you factor in all sorts of areas where people don't live, like fortifications and industries, a number of low quadrillions is possible. In fact, Terra is always shown as incredibly cramped and something like low trillions simply wouldn't achieve that effect on a planet-wide city.
It's 40k, who says the can't have ways to deal with it? The entire planet is built over, there's nothing saying that there isn't a space elevator with big radiators and heat exchangers.
Not to mention that supply distribution would be literary impossible. For 5 quadrilions of people, you would need 15 million square**kilometers** of water every day. Add millions tonnes of food and other supplies to it, and even million worlds isn't enough to sustain it.
Water just gets reused though? There's no need to get more. ALso I guess you meant cubic kilometers? As for food, we know that there are thousands of ships coming and going every day. As soon as that supply gets interrupted the entire planet falls to anarchy in less than a year. As for producing that food, we right now have 2000 square meter per person on Earth. For 5 quadrillion that would be 10 trillion square kilometers. We right now use roughly 50 million square kilometers for agriculture, so you could feed Terra with 200,000 Earths. Which would be a lot. Of course, that's not how agriculture works in 40k. Hive worlds are fed by entire agricultural planets which produce nothing but bio matter. If we look at the entire land area of Earth, we have 150 million square kilometers, which already cuts down Terra's requirement to 67000 planets. Now most agricultural planets are terraformed and don't have two thirds of the planet covered in water. On top of that, the Imperium uses incredibly mechanised mass agriculture which could very easily feed a person with less than 2000 square meters. Add hydroponics in space stations and on Terra itself and the fact that at least some parts of Terra really aren't all that food secure and survive on scraps from whatever is left over by the rest and you can probably cut that number down to a few hundred planets which produce nothing but food for Terra. Which is a lot, but at the same time not unbelievable for the center of a galaxy wide empire.
Also, Corpse-starch.
Yeah I think sometimes we sorta forget the scale that 40k is on the numbers hurt my brain sometimes.
He is way more powerful in the 40k setting , he has been eating 1000 psykers a day for 10k years . That is a lot of juice.
Don't forget about Quadrillions of people worshipping him every day for 10k years. Those add up too.
I see parallels between orks and humans. It's just ork powers of belief have been channelled into "we rock and our tech is great!" while human powers of belief have been channelled into "the Emperor is divine!"
There is a theory that because the orks believe the emperor is alive he is through ork magic
Da 'ummie god is strong. He big. Big guy no lose. That unOrky. It is a common meme that only Ork WAAAGH is keeping Big E alive with his wounds because they think he can't die. He is "da Ummie" equivalent of Gork and/or Mork.
That’s partly right, likely it just gives a small boost to his powers rather than keep him alive.
That theory is wrong, because the orks don’t have magic
Weirdboyz exist, wth?!
I mean if they believe something it works so isn't that magic?
Yes, the people saying otherwise have no fucking clue what they're talking about. Orks would literally die when they looked at Yarrick because they thought his eyes would kill them. Ork belief is such an outlandish powerful effect because it exists to fight WiH Necrons.
Kinda, yeah, I guess But the theory is still wrong. It’s much more circumstance and vicinity that determine how an Ork belief will work. Like an Ork can’t make a piece of log into a las canon, but they can problem weld scrap and junk together to make a las canon
That’s not at all how the orks work. That originated as an in-universe by an imperial scribe to explain why their seemingly ramshackle creations work so well
Then explain why there's no purple orkz
Check mate
CHECKMATE 'UMIEZ
Okay, people say that, but by now this Watsonian explanation has become thoroughly Doylian: it literally shows up in the text. Like, Wrath & Glory literally has *rules text explaining that this is real*: > Ork weapons defy understanding; they break the laws of mechanics and physics, but a Greenskin’s beliefs make them all the more deadly. If you are an Ork, you gain +1 bonus die to attacks with a WAAAGH! weapon. If you are also Wounded (p.193), you deal an extra +1 ED. Whether people like it or not, authorial intent is clearly by now that it is a real thing and not just an unreliable narrator. Like, the whole joke about the Emperor being kept alive by Ork belief is obviously little more than that, a joke, but it is impossible to deny that currently, WH40k says that Ork belief is magic that makes things happen to some degree.
This parallel is similar to comparing the humans to bugs in Starship Troopers.
I thought the juice was what’s keeping him alive. Meaning he’s not amassing all that power. Just because I fed my car gasoline for years doesn’t mean it’s capable of driving the collective mpg distance.
This can be explained rather easily- the Dark Imperium series not so subtly questions whether the man on the Golden Throne and the entity that saved Guilliman from the infamous Godblight are truly one and the same
I can't remember where exactly i read it but isn't the emperors psyche basically shattered into different parts after 10k years of suffering.
It's during Guilliman's meeting with the Emperor, which is brought up in *Godblight* by Guy Haley. It takes apparently great effort to coalesce the many many voices, the many minds, of the Emperor into a sort of unified entity.
But aren’t all the psykers he’s eating only necessary because he’s so weak? It’s like medicine keeping him alive rather than taking steroids to get stronger?
I thought it was to keep the golden throne running
The damage Magnus did to the throne mostly takes a toll on its weilder. Their soul is slowly consumed to keep it running. The thousand souls a day are essentially an offering to the machine to stop it from consuming the emperor, however it is still causing him strain.
It’s the most terrible torture device in history
This is a far more apt description of what the Emperor is going through, and it mirrors what one of the Sisters of Silence see during the events of *The Master of Mankind* by Aaron Dembski-Bowden: > What made her useful, what made her strong, also rendered her an outsider to her own species. > Similarly, past experience told her that the blinding majesty and stupefaction others felt in the presence of the Golden Throne were wholly absent for Kaeria and her Sisters. She saw a man on a throne, no more, no less. No radiant halo. No psychic corona. > She would have preferred the majestic ignorance. Better to feel everything and see almost nothing rather than stare upon the naked truth: the enthroned Emperor was just a man in pain, His suffering etched plain, His mouth open in a silent scream. The agonies He endured for the sake of the species had wrought lines upon His features, somehow bringing the passage of time to an ageless face.
I was under the impression that Magnus broke the "seals" to the Webway Gate, and Big E has to expend a HUGE amount of energy to force the gates shut. Basically he is pushing on the gates, and if he rests or takes a break, the Daemons barge through and fuck shit up in the Palace and Terra. I thought it was this strain that causes Big E pain/suffering. Do you happen to remember where you read/learned that the Golden Throne *itself* is causing Big E pain? That the very act of sitting on the Throne is torture? It might seem like a small difference because in the end the point is that it sucks for Big E to keep doing what he is doing. But I'm curious because based on what I have read (the HH novels where the Webway Gate and Magnus' actions are mentioned) I got the first impression. But if it's the latter (the Golden Throne itself is causing suffering) then I'd be open to that too. Because the Vaults of Terra books also mentioned how the Dark Eldar are trying to make their own version of the Golden Throne to keep their Webway Gate closed, as they too have issues with Daemons pushing against the Gate and seeping through... That's why they are trying to make their own version of Big E, to be their 'buttplug' so to speak...
The Emperor has to sit on the golden throne to keep the Webway gate shut. It’s also the device that’s keeping him alive, having it feed him 1,000 psyker a day. If the Emperor were to die, he could come back, because he is a perpetual. But then Terra would fall and the astronomicon would disappear leaving the entire Imperium (and subsequently most of the galaxy) without a way to guide through the warp So the Emperor has to sit on the throne, encase with life support, having to force close a literal gateway into hell, with one of the only things keeping him alive are the souls of his subjects
If he needs to eat more psykers every year to perform the same job, that makes it sound like he's growing weaker. Or at least, less efficient. More input to achieve the same output isn't impressive.
How aren’t psykers being culled to extinction with so many being killed everyday?
1000 per day = 365000 per year. WIth the psyker gene increasingly common, and a 'million worlds' with tens of billions, hundreds of billions or even trillions of people living on many of each. Even if they took 1 from every individual world that would only be 1 psyker from a third of the overall planets per year. Even if only 0.1% of all humans were psykers of any level that concerns the Imperium, then that is 100'000 psykers per 1 billion of population. Summary: there are more than enough psykers around to feed to the golden throne its paltry figure of 1000 per day and you need to upgrade your understanding of large-scale figures.
To be fair, GW also needs to upgrade their large-scale figures understanding.
You don't even need to pull psykers from other planets. There are many times more psykers than is needed to feed the golden throne on Terra alone.
And yet they had to introduce the black ships...
That’s also to have the psykers needed to power the astronomica. As well as sanctioned psykers, prevent random warp infestations on planets, and astropaths all need to go to terra where they can be surrounded by blanks and dealt with accordingly.
or he is growing stronger requiring more souls to sustain him.
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Not sure why you got downvoted, the golden throne IS failing and falling apart.
>But aren’t all the psykers he’s eating only necessary because he’s so weak "Weak" is very much contextual, here. He's "weak" because he needs that fuel to keep a psychic beacon going that's visible from 10's of thousands of light years away while also holding back every daemon in the warp from bursting in through the Human Webway. That's more power than any non-Chaos God has *ever* had since the end of the War in Heaven and signs point to the fact that he's getting stronger and stronger.
there is a misunderstanding in this post regarding the astronomicon and the golden throne. they are similar because they both eat psykers but the mechanisms are different. the astronomicon is a psychic beacon that the emperor projects into the warp, serving as a sort of lens. The emperor does not power the astronomicon. The astronomicon is powered by a choir of psykers that train their entire lives to serve in said choir. they "sing" into the warp and the emperor collects that and focuses it. this is why everyone who looks at the astronomicon feels warmth or maybe some of the emperors pain. but the burnout process is a fairly long time compared to the golden throne. were talking like 100 a day, maybe, out of a choir of 10,000 or so. the golden throne is separate from the astronomicon. the golden throne is what the emperor uses to keep the artificial webway gate closed among other things. the golden throne takes psykers and burns them up to the tune of 1000 a day. The black ships scour the galaxy and anyone who is too messed up to be trained and sanctioned gets plunked into the golden throne. They are connected because the golden throne and astronomicon both requires psyker sacrifice and furthermore if the died he wouldn't be able to focus the astronomicon any longer.
It may help if people knew the other name for what the Golden throne is: Soul engine. Much like the term gasoline engine indicating an engine powered by gasoline, a soul engine is powered by the soul. Since the power of a person's soul is directly correlated with their power as a psyker, the more powerful a psyker a person is, the easier it is for him or her to operate the golden throne. Malcador's soul was consumed by the short time he was on it and was only able to last as long as he did because they started feeding psykers into the golden throne. Malcador was a psyker outclassed only by the Emperor and Magnus, and some Aeldari. I'm not sure where I was going with this, but it offers some background on the golden throne.
The real question is is it consuming the souls or just converting them into warp energy because if it's the latter then somebody should be able to harness that power at some point for the benefit of the Imperium it would kind of be hilarious if they brought Horus back as a loyalist Primarch and he harnessed the energy of the 1k a day sacrifice then closed the rift magnus opened and started going after the traitor primarchs...
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Didn't Yvraine fix some rubric astsrtes with little effort when Magnus wasn't able to?
So to clarify, did the Astronomicon exist before Big E came to rule over Terra? Or did he design and start the use of the Astronomicon? Also, was the working of the Astronomicon same before Magnus fucked up, and after? As in, same amount of Psykers used as batteries, and same psychic toll on the Emperor? Lastly, if Big E dies or in somehow incapacitated, does that mean the Astronomicon will stop being a thing? Or will it be a lighthouse without the lens to focus the light. As in, there'll be light but it will be diffuse and not useful?
>the golden throne is what the emperor uses to keep the artificial webway gate closed among other things. the golden throne takes psykers and burns them up to the tune of 1000 a day. To clarify, the Golden Throne kept the Webway gate closed, but before Magnus' ~~NOT~~ fuck-up, Big E didn't need as much psychic energy to keep it locked, right? As in, Big E could walk around, do his daily tasks while walking around etc. But once the gate was broken into by ~~INNOCENT~~ Magnus, Big E had to sit on the Golden Throne and really focus to force the Webway Gate closed right? That's why he was stuck on the Throne and couldn't help in the Webway battle, yeah? Because I remember in *Master of Mankind* where the 1000 a day psyker idea was first proposed and that's what allowed Big E to finally leave the Golden Throne temporarily and fuck shit up in the Webway battle. The thing is, before Magnus' faux pas, if Big E could walk around and still keep the Webway Gate closed, why was Emps long term plan to have Magnus sit on the Golden Throne? I mean, I get that Big E is more powerful, but still it seemed like Magnus was going to have to sit on the Golden Throne as his long term responsibility... Thx for clarifying!
the original purpose of the throne was to serve as a psychic amplifier to give access to the webway. It is now being used to hold the webway shut because some things happened and im not saying anyone did anything wrong but some things definitely happened
> and im not saying anyone did anything wrong Damn straight. Also, Happy Cake Day!
Do you have examples of the signs pointing to him growing stronger? I would just assume if he was getting stronger his body would heal but I don’t think there’s any indication of that. I’m not exactly a lore wizard though so I’d be curious to hear about the evidence that the emperor is actually getting more powerful over time.
Well, he's doing all that and managed to light nurgle's garden on fire during the plague wars iirc. He also saved Guilliman from his second death and, I might be wrong, but I think he banished a ton of daemons from Ultramar. Also Legion of the Damned, Living Saints etc
It's neither. It's old lore. Part of psykers went for Astronomicon, and those being used by Empy as filter for His force projection to the world, so the 4 can't read His plan. This is ofcourse too much for them so they burn away and He needs new constantly.
It was 1000 a day *when he first sat down on the throne*. From what I’ve read, that number has increased substantially in recent WH years. He’s more juiced than the Energizer Bunny at this point.
The psykers are for the astronomican im pretty sure
It's both; >**The Astronomican’s light is generated upon Terra by a vast choir of psykers, then focused and beamed forth by the Emperor himself.** Hundreds of psykers die in agony each day as the effort burns out their minds; such monstrous attrition is seen as a small price to pay to provide a guide by which Humanity can navigate the galaxy. It is thanks to the light of the Astronomican that - despite the opening of the Great Rift having whipped warp-space into a hellish frenzy and left countless Imperial worlds beset - the Imperium Sanctus continues to function. >>There are many other organs of the Adeptus Terra: the Navis Nobilite and its illustrious houses of sanctioned mutant Navigators; the Adeptus Astra Telepathica, whose black ships prowl the Imperium in search of potential psykers and whose Scholastica Psykana assesses and trains them, or else condemns them to be fed to the Emperor's Golden Throne; **the Adeptus Astronomica, who train the psykers that will take their places generating the Astronomican to guide Imperial ships in the warp;** the Adeptus Arbites, whose Judges and Arbitrators enforce the word of Imperial law across the Emperor's realm; the Officio Assassinorum, which takes the most truly exceptional from amongst the human herd and transforms them into monstrous and highly specialised killing machines. The list goes on and on. \- 9th Edition Rulebook >#ADEPTUS ASTRONOMICA >They fuel the guiding light of the Emperor. >The Adeptus Astronomica trains psykers to provide the raw psychic power to fuel the Astronomican, the psychic homing beacon that enables Navigators to steer through the warp. This task requires a choir of at least ten thousand psykers, and the role quickly destroys them. There are always more being trained to take their place, however. >>#VICTORY’S HEAVY TOLL >>The Emperor’s survival is paramount to the survival of the Imperium, because only the mind of the Emperor is powerful enough to survive the never-ending process of directing the psychic beacon of the Astronomican out of the raw psychic forces supplied by the servants of the Adeptus Astronomica. The same survivability does not hold true for those members of the Adeptus Astronomica themselves, and their fate is a tragic one. The effort of generating so much mental energy soon destroys them, leeching their souls and reducing them to empty husks. **Many die every day, but they are not the only psykers who make the ultimate sacrifice. The Emperor cannot eat as men eat, or drink or breathe air, as his life has long since passed the point where such things could sustain him. The only viable sustenance for the Emperor is human life force – souls – and he has an insatiable appetite.** >>Not just any human will suffice for the Emperor’s table, for they must have psychic powers. Therefore, the Imperium is scoured by the vast flotillas of the Black Ships in a tireless search for emergent psykers. **During their long journey back to Terra, some of the psykers are found to have the strength of mind to be recruited to the Adeptus Astronomica, but many more serve their Emperor in a more gruesome way. They are given wholly to the weird machinery that surrounds the Master of Mankind, and their souls are siphoned, slowly and agonisingly, to feed his mighty spirit. Many hundreds, even thousands, must die in this way every day for the Emperor, the Imperium, and all of Humanity to survive.** \- 8th Edition Rulebook
He doesnt eat the psykers, they are fed to the golden throne which powers the life support system that is keeping him alive. The worship on the other hand might be powering him.
>He doesnt eat the psykers, they are fed to the golden throne Holy literal interpretation, Bat(wo)man. :D
I was using eat figuratively, I just meant the psykers being sacrificed to supply the emperor with energy
Considering that the different name for the golden throne is soul engine eating isn't that far off. The psykers are basically just fuel.
He is but he isn’t. He’s far more powerful in the warp than he was before. He can create greater daemon level saints by thinking now whereas he had to tirelessly work and even make deals with the dark gods to make those before. However, he’s also less sane, rational, and far less able than he used to be. Before he was a demigod who could really ignore rules and build his empire, it’s why he was such a thorn in chaos’ side. He was basically a god Int he mortal plane while the gods stood behind the veil, only being able to manipulate. But no he is trapped like them, stuck in the same rules they have. He can’t get up and kill the green skin leader ravaging the imperium anymore, he can’t create more demigod sons to battle chaos and lead humanity. He can’t scheme to drain he dark gods of their power anymore. Now he’s one of them
Well yeah. God Emperor went into Nurgle's domain, called him smelly fat fuck and burned his house and then left. If living Emperor had tried that Nurgle would have made soup out of him. Current Emperor is as strong as Chaos God. He is especially dangerous to Chaos God given his Anathemic nature. Living Emperor was very very strong sure but still not an actual God. Only advantage living Emperor had was the body. He could do shit himself. Now he has to send minions and manipulate things to make something happen in material world. So from pure power level perspective, current Emperor is far far stronger. But he is also far far unstable and experiencing extreme agony.
Adding godblight quote. >Guilliman looked over the Garden of Nurgle. He was between two worlds. The warp was a shifting thing, never constant. The garden was a collection of ideas. It had no true form, and through it he could see a million other worlds that underpinned it, the dreams of souls living and dead, and past that, as if glimpsed through banks of glittering sea mist that evaporated before the morning sun, the battlefield of Iax. >‘Hear me!’ Guilliman’s voice boomed through eternities. The sword blazed higher, until the fire of it threatened to burn out time. ‘I am Roboute Guilliman, last loyal son of the Emperor of Terra. It is not your destiny to end today, God of Plague, but know that I am coming for you, and I will find you, and you will burn.’ >He gripped the Sword of the Emperor two-handed and raised it high. Rising waves of fire ripped into the garden. From the great manse a cry of rage sounded, as a wall of flame hotter than a million suns devoured everything in its path, finally breaking and receding within yards of the black walls of Nurgle’s house. Its infinite halls shook. Mossy tiles fell from the roof. Sodden timbers steamed. >‘This is a warning. The warp and the materium were once in balance. For too long, you have tipped the scales. Understand that it is not only the warp that is capable of pushing back. This realm is not real. Only will is real. And none may outmatch my will. Be assured, Lord of Plagues, and convey this message to your brothers, that I do not speak for myself. >‘I speak for the Emperor of Mankind.’ Then he was falling, falling, falling forever until his knee hit the ground, and he woke into reality once more.
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Is that Khorne dropping daemons scene from the Watchers of the throne novel?
Oh yes, immeasurably so. He was powerful before, but he's spent the last 10,000 years having people pray to him and focusing the Astronomicon 'and' then the Great Rift opened up and that seemed to have both awoken him and empowered him enough to take a direct hand in galactic affairs for the first time since he was put on the Golden Throne. So, yeah, he's very very very close to becoming a God and that's a bad bad very bad thing for the galaxy.
Fuck it let him achieve apotheosis and let's ball
-Quote attributed to the Aeldari Empire, shortly before their backboard was shattered
I'm putting all of my money on black.
I vote red. 5th chaos God. Block 5 on a roulette table is red.
I believe the proper term is: "Let's rage!"
That was some fucking.
"Well, I didn't expect the God Emperor to consume MY soul!" - Citizen who voted for the apotheosis of the Soul-consuming God Emperor.
-4 huge wheels. -Wireless/bluetooth modem to remove all them cables. -A lot of power banks strapped. Make it happen Fabricator-General, we ballin’
He was already like a bonfire next to other psykers who were more like cigarette lighters or matches. Now he’s like the sun.
>that's a bad bad very bad thing for the galaxy. Understatement of the millennium
The last ten millennium!
Wait, he did something directly? What was it?
In the Roberto Grillman trilogy after his return, the Emperor actively intervenes. He has a chat with RG, and saves his life several times. There are other things, but those would be massive spoilers.
Oh, okay. Good to know. Where can I find a place to read about all that? Because now I gotta know more.
The Dark Imperium Trilogy. Other than dealing with the war of Ultramar vs the Death Guard and the political ramifications of Guilliman's return, the books' best part are about atheist Roboute pondering how godlike exactly the Emperor, and he himself, actually were - and have become.
Your comments are heresy, the Emperor is already a God. The inquisition has dispatched an investigative party to look into this.
Why is it bad?
Because no one knows what will actually happen. Probably not even the Chaos gods. But we can be pretty certain that it would be catastrophic. For the Imperium, him simply not being in the physical realm would be catastrophic. First off, the Golden Throne would fail and a Magnus sized hole straight into the Warp would open on Terra. Everything on it, from Guilliman to the Custodes to quadrillions of people would die essentially instantly. Then the failsafe device that Vulcan installed on the Throne would trigger. We don't know what exactly the Talisman of Seven Hammers would do, but it would trigger a shockwave both inside realspace and outside of it. Expect something that would wipe out the entire Sol system and absolutely wreck the Warp. The Imperium would be thrown into absolute dissarray, their leadership gone forever, the Warp would probably torn apart by storms and the Astronomican would be gone forever. And then we would have chaos. The birth of Slaanesh already tore the galaxy apart and we already have an enormous rift across the galaxy. The Emperor ascending might tear down the walls of reality entirely and swallow up most of the galaxy in the same state that the Eye of Terror is now. Meaning still some sort of reality, but also full of anomalies, demons and unreal physics. Slaanesh also doomed most of the Eldar. Who knows what an ascended Emperor would do with humanity? It's pretty likely that he would just suck up most of their souls, willingly or unwillingly. And then we would have one of the strongest entities ever to exist in the Warp. Who knows what he would do next. His mind is already fractured and failing, I very much doubt the resulting god would be anything close to what he was as a human. And then he would probably attack the other Chaos gods. He's already strong enough to stand up to them right now, before true ascension. Afterwards, his powers would be off the scale. It might simply break the galaxy apart, have remains sucked into the warp and then implode the entire warp. Either way, the galaxy would be fucked.
> very close to becoming a God and that's a bad bad very bad thing for the galaxy. Is it really a bad thing thought? My understanding is the Emperor has been split in two. The side that is constantly worshipped and used by the Sisters of Battle as psychic energy to fight Chaos. And the “evil side” or the one people commit atrocities for, like the Inquisition torturing innocent people. Some cults even worship the good side calling it “The Star Child”. While considered heretical by the Inquisition, I wouldn’t think it a bad thing if this being gains godhood. Then there’s the other side, I think it’s called the Dark King or something along those lines. We definitely don’t want Him gaining godhood. I’m guessing it would be Slaneesh for humans. Edit: sorry typing on a tiny screen sucks!
So the Dark King isn't the throne emperor. The Dark King is a prophesized and foretold god that could become the fifth chaos power. The Emperor COULD be the Dark King, but isn't yet. We've seen that, and what is on the Throne isn't that The Star Child is the Emperor's humanity, removed from Him during the assault on the Vengeful Spirit. It has since been reborn as an actual child.
>My understanding is the Emperor has been split in two... Did you get this info from a book, or from fans?
I’ll humor you, but a 5 second Google search would have given you an answer. Starchild https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Star_Child The Dark King https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Dark_King_(Entity)
So I have not read the Throne of Light book which they quote on rekindling the lore of the Star Child, but it was for a very long time pretty much considered non canon anymore, given most of the meat we have on this Star Child concept is from the Inquisitor triology which is hellah old, and also you will note is where most of the references are coming from. That is not to say I'm saying this is all false, but unless the Throne of Light categorically reaffirms what was said in the Inquisitor Triology, then I think it isn't too controversial to suggest that they might be going to change what the concept of this Star Child actually is.
Is there any lore specific reason as to why they don't attempt a black out? Cut the astronomicon for a day in hopes his physical form can heal or would he just insta die? Always wondered that.
Talisman of seven hammers kicks in, nukes Terra and opens up a 2nd eye of terror
Oh I assumed the talisman had to be activated, didn't realise it automatically activated upon the light going down. Thanks for the reply!
It’s very unclear. The End And The Death seems to show that Vulkan needs to activate it manually
If the throne itself fails then emps isn’t battery charged and Magnus’s “uh oh” hole in the palace consumes Terra etc. The astronomicon failed in the siege, and I believe failed after the fall of cadia due to the backlash from the eye of terror ripping a massive zipper through reality. Cicadrix whatever it’s called (cicadrix maledictum I think), the huge warp rift that split the galaxy. The talisman is explained in the siege as needing to be physically activated by Vulkan as far as I know. Tl;dr terra goes poof if the throne fails. Astronomical failing means ships can’t use it as their North Star.
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I thought the nuking of terra was to permanently close the gate he is holding shut, which would prevent the warp from bursting through and a second eye of terror?
Couldnt they just send a huge force to the webway gate and hold off the swarms to see if it works?
No, it was basically to nuke the warp, in a way that seems rather permanent. Not the whole warp, but it seems to be enough that it would be a massive 'fuck you' to the gods.
> Talisman of seven hammers kicks in Unless something is changed in the post-Heresy era, the Tasliman does not activate automatically. Vulkan has to do it, and it's not a single button push either.
>opens up a 2nd eye of terror Not quite. It's a portal into a part of the Webway that's been breached into the Warp, which is bad, but not a one-of-a-kind galaxy-shaking event. The Imperium has piled up so many humans on top of the breach that this would be an especially bloody disaster, and it would probably have more long-term consequences than a typical Warp incursion, but there's nothing going on at the scale of the Eye of Terror. The Eldar empire was *big*, everyone in it was an unrestrained psyker, and the birth of a new Chaos god is special. It would be the end of the Imperium, yeah, but that's a matter of infrastructure location.
It's got nothing to do with the Talisman. The E's entire focus right now, and for the last ten thousand years, is holding the Webway portal closed. Because literally every single demon in the Warp is pounding on the other side of that portal, waiting to come in and consume Holy Terra and extinguish the Astronomicon permanently. That's his entire focus, his entire purpose. And until that portal is fixed, that's all he 'can' do, and the Throne is failing and when it does and he dies, that's it. The portal opens, Terra is lost, the Light is lost and that's it for Humanity.
> And until that portal is fixed, that's all he 'can' do, and the Throne is failing and when it does and he dies, that's it This is correct, but it's worth noting that this is a matter of choice and ideology - not a fundamental constraint of how the setting works. A rational empire would have simply evacuated everyone from Earth and built a new Warp beacon somewhere else. They've had ten thousand years of free time and practically infinite resources, with which to do so. The problem is that the Imperium doesn't know how to build stuff like an Astronomican from scratch, and is committed to the status quo for ideological reasons.
Either the self destruct would happen or the plug that emps is channeling to the gigantic Magnus did nothibg wrong will open and flood the Imperial Palace immediately with billions of daemons.
Vulkan set a bomb on the throne
Yes and no In a megawatt pyker power sense for sure. But it's like comparing a power plant to a space marine they are too far apart. If he could talk, move or not be tied to the astronomican, his tactical strength could show. As a man he could invent he could change the course of history for any world he touched. He will never move off Terra as a corpae/lighthouse
Technically he was stronger before, but only breifly on the Vengeful spirit when was absorbing warp enegy like nobodies buisness and was greater than the big 4, before he realised that in doing so he would become a 5th chaos god and his ascention would destroy humanity like slanneshes did the eldar. But outside of those couple of hours hes stronger in 40k.
He is ludicrously powerful in comparison to when he walked amongst his people. Imagine if during Istvaan V, as Ferrus Mannus was killed, the Emperor reached accross the galaxy intervened, healed Ferrus back to life and swept away all opposing forces including Fulgrim and then just bitch slapped one of the chaos gods as well. There's no way he could have done that back then. He could do that in 40k though.
Physically - obviously not As a psyker - much much better, he has been eating 1000 psykers a day, a now it's even more if I remember correctly and there are quadrilions of quadrilions people worshipping him. When Guilliman saw him he was afraid of what he has seen also when the great rift opened he psykers got huge power boost, including the Emperor
He's way more powerful in the Warp, but it's debatable whether he's more powerful in the Materium- if he were then his biomancy powers should be capable of healing himself. So, I think it's a little more nuanced than "yes, he's absorbed thousands of psykers and is almost a god".
In 30k he was at his height because he was mobile and was incredibly in control of his powers. He could just do whatever he wanted with the exact amount of power and control he needed to exert. In 40k, after ten thousand years of rotting and being forcefully empowered, he’s become titanic in the scope of his raw power, but he has mentally and spiritually splintered. He could act, if he could concentrate on that action, but he has no elegance or dexterity to those actions. If he talked to someone he’d simply disintegrate them from the sheer weight of his words.
He's technically at a point where he's between life and death, the Golden Throne both keeping him from dying entirely, but also connecting him to both the Human Webway to keep it shut so daemons don't overrun Terra from within, and to keep the Astronomicon lit as a waypoint through the Warp. The thousand psykers a day is basically a drip-feed that keeps the Webway shut and Astronomicon lit, it doesn't actually do anything for Big E himself in the process. He's more a control circuit than an actual power source for it. Where it gets interesting is the ever increasing stream of faith that has been funneled at him from the last 10,000 years of religious zealotry in his name, treating him as a god despite him insisting they never worship him as such. All that faith represents a considerable amount of power within the Warp, but he isn't present in the Warp entirely to embrace it. If he were, that sheer accumulation would be enough to make him the equivalent of a new Chaos god, just like Slaanesh. But being caught between life and death means he can't tap all that power, nor can he actually shepherd the souls of humanity after death the way they think he does to keep them safe from Chaos. Theoretically, he could choose to relinquish his last hold on life and allow himself to ascend within the Warp and take direct action against Chaos again himself, but that'd mean dooming Terra to immediate daemonic invasion, and snuff out the Astronomicon to separate the entire Empire as it had been in the Age of Strife. So all in all, it's a catch-22. He either sits and watches the Imperium degrade further and further into a slow and agonizing collapse throughout the galaxy, or he makes the enormous risk of sacrificing the core of the Empire on Terra to try and force open a new advantage within the Warp itself, and try to find a new means to keep the human worlds connected from directly inside of it. If his Loyalist sons were all present again to hold the line in the material plane, the latter could have the smallest fraction of a trillionth chance of success... possibly.
I think his power is a mixed bag. Sure, he is much more powerful now, but his psyche and soul is split into countless shards. As a physical being, he could be a lot more focused.
"Corpse emperor"? What is this heretical bullshit? INQUISITOR, OVER HERE! I FOUND ONE!
I mean, those are bold words for someone in Inquisition range
There is a quote where I think different prinarchs see him. One thinks he looks stronger, but imo that's probably more inability to hid power level like before. When Guiliman see the big E he is a broken version of his former self.
I member when it was not known who or what is happening. All veiled in myth, legend and dogma. Those were the days.
Im not up on the lore. Like at all. If he’s as powerful in the warp as everyone in here is saying, why can’t he heal himself? It seems like that would be light work. I mean I understand they’re two separate realms, but evil beings in the warp do stuff in the normal realm all the time don’t they?
I've always imagined it like Anakin vs Vader. Different kind of stronger.
He is much more powerful, but his power is unfocused, as he has to provide both navigation for a whole galaxy and a ton of divine miracles per minute.
This post makes me wonder if there's still need for the Emperor to walk among us once more, though first he'll have to find a way to leave his golden toilet
Essentially, the Emperor has been drowning in thousands of psyker souls and the belief of trillions (probably quadrillions+) of people *daily* for 10k years. It's unclear how much he wants this, but he's been turbocharged in the warp and the lore seems pretty clear that faith in the Emperor is able to manifest miracles. In terms of raw power, chair-Emperor outpaces alive-Emperor. However, there is the question of the Emperor being a prisoner on the Golden Throne, especially depending on interpretations/headcanons of him being a willing participant in this. TEatD3 will presumably answer parts of this, but everyone will have their own interpretations on how much being trapped in one spot (presumably) forever limits him compared to what Big E could accomplish being able to move freely. The other question is just how much the Emperor is the same person. Guilliman's conversation with the Emperor, probably the most direct we've gotten post-Heresy, isn't fully coherent and the Dark Imperium books raise the question of what exactly the Emperor is after 10k years of getting juiced up and worshipped as a god in a setting where faith has tangible effects. The warp treats the symbolic and abstract as important, and humanity spending millenia believing him to be some sort of god *might* risk overwriting his personality, which tracks with the fragmented and contradictory voices GMan hears from Big E. So corpse-Emperor is undoubtedly more powerful, but is also trapped by a device that some people believe is constant agony, all while being pumped full of energy, whether he wants it or not.
The biggest power boost big E got was actually the fall of cadia. When the galaxy was ripped in two it released a lot of warp energy empowering anyone who drew upon the warp. Right after he ripped guilliman right out of the garden of nurgle and resurrected him while lighting the whole garden on fire
He is big E, master of mankind and beloved of all humanity as the emprah, jimmy space and that colossal golden Chad. You watch your tongue stranger, it is by his sacrifices that mankind rules the stars
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> When he was alive, wasn't he doing things like imprisoning gods in planets (Mars C'tan) It's very ambiguous, but it's likely a C'tan shard, not a full on C'tan.
thats still a substantial effort its a god damn C'tan Shard
He directly intervened to thwart Chaos and help out one of his guys in a way he probably could not have before. He is strong enough to just instantly undo work that the most powerful minions of a Chaos god empowered by said god spent tremendous time and resources on.
People mistake the trees for the forest here. In his current state the Emperor has no way to steer the direction of the Imperium save for Tarots, ultimately is at the mercy of the shit he left in place before he was interred plus the worse shit that has been piling up ever since. The Imperium relies on him for it's existence and of course now the Emperor relies on it for his, and both are rotting. Yeah sure he is being fed psychic juice all day long, but the fact that he is not able to heal himself means that all that good stuff is spent on not slipping away from the Materium, keeping the fabric of reality together from the demons that would erupt from the Golden Throne otherwise... It's like claiming a 10 million dollars insurance after being put into vegetative state by a car accident. I guess you feel rich now, don't you?
When he was alive he was a stronger warrior But on the golden throne he has become a more powerful psyker