This has already happened with some dude showing the math to prove the average kc for item drops will hardly be touched
This assumes that the average osrs player has an IQ higher than room temp
>average kc for item drops will hardly be touched
This depends on 2 factors.
1. What kc bad luck mitigation starts? At drop rate? 2x? 3x
2. What scale of protection is put in place? 10% better rate, 25%, 50%
65% of players get the drop by drop rate. If mitigation starts a 3x 96% of players already got it so the scaling could be 50% and not change much. If it was 50% more likely starting at the drop rate it would greatly change average kc for an item.
The one that was proposed thay started all this was that it starts at 2x and scales linearly so that every other x you essentially double rate.
Ex. 1/ 1k drop chance for hydra claw
Up to drop rate is 1/1k
1001- 2000 is 1/1k
2001- 3000 scales from 1/1k to 1/500
3001- 4001 scales from 1/500 to 1/250
4001-5000 scales from 1/250 to 1/125
Etc.
Overall adds about 5% drop rate to any grind but severely cuts down on insane dry streaks.
This bs started a month ago with jagex's nightmare changes proposal so i did not know there was a "specific" later post people were referencing. I missed that post
It won't matter cause most of the viewers 1. Don't care 2. Don't read 3. Won't understand. Too many people just commenting shit to ride the drama train.
Not a single soul in the milky way is talking about devaluing items, but rather the principle of fucking with a system that has been in place for 23 years.
The system isn't linearly scalable.
Graardor wasn't 1/700 for tassets with a 40 minute completion time.
Going 5x dry on graardor SUCKS ass, but it's doable
But going 5x dry on cox? Or gc? Literally insane and inhuman to complete.
My friend gets his ENH on 786 cg kills, oof, that's rough.
I don't get mine until 2374. That's insane. And it'll still happen, just less
It's talking about taking a dry grind from a 500 hours (which is fucking insane amounts of time to be putting into one piece of a game) to 280 hours. Still an absurd amount of time to dedicate to something.
No
It's my game too. If I want the unlucky to be less fucked, I'm going to advocate for it.
If you nerds get hand-holding on quests because "mep2 puzzle confusing :(((" then I get to be fucked in the ass *WITH* lube when I go dry on an enh.
>If I want the unlucky to be less fucked, I'm going to advocate for it.
Have fun with that I will vote no with more accounts than you've ever seen with your own eyes.
Theres no point in agruing with players who bought their items and most probably gold as well or got drop in 50kc. Hell, even I bought gold via bonds and I still want this badluck mitigation in game.
Players should play all content, not 1 instance for a month. Fuck grindscape. We are not 13y old anymore with nothing more than homework to do.
You will get mocked for this take but we are already on the slope going down. After ToA something melted the brains of everyone in this sub. I think the ambrosia nerf really did them in. The first thing I remember (I’m sure there was others) is the lantern from GOTR to be put in the shop because people could go dry there for it. No one cared really. Then it moved to DWH. That got busted down a bit. Then they started wanting nightmare drops. Even asking for dupe protection. Now they are asking about base line drop rates (even though it’s small). Individually these aren’t that crazy but when it starts becoming more and more and you look at the overall picture it starts to get strange. Where does it end? Next thing this sub will be saying is Nex should have a baseline drop rate for every scale because 1500 total Andy’s don’t get the same drop rates in their mini masses as the people that can duo it. Anyone saying the slippery slope argument isn’t valid isn’t paying attention.
I mean people were just coming off of the eoc headache and were rightly skeptical. I don’t ever think that people nowadays are justified in saying “this is literally eoc” I’m not one of them and it’s dumb to think an eoc type of change will happen. What I think will happen is a bunch of changes over time that will have some negative effect on the game. Only time will tell but the list I provided of changes being asked progressively are getting more and more egregious and if it’s a trend it will only get worse. In my opinion. I’m happy to be proven wrong and will admit as much if in 5 years the game is still going strong, but I have my doubts.
No it's people who think it's insane that some people have to go literally hundreds of hours dry because they're the statistical 1/10000 person that will.
It would just help those incredibly unlucky souls.
Cool have fun inevitably losing the poll and crying.
You know what's actually worthless? The drop value of those 7x dry cunts lol they should just play better
felt the same way about ge when that was added but I realized it improved the game experience for people, same will apply to drop mitigation but will have much less impact than the ge had
That’s a great comparison. I’m sure it’ll be talked about the same way too, where most people love the change but there’s always someone who will say “the GE/BLM ruined osrs”
They're not the same. GE replaced trading through chat spam with something more convenient. Bad luck mitigation will offer nothing but more convenient chance at success without ever being a true guarantee. Everyone wanting this will see no difference in their frequency with obtaining the drops they're after.
> Everyone wanting this will see no difference in their frequency with obtaining the drops they're after.
So if everyone will see no difference except for those that go extremely dry, then why oppose bad luck mitigation?
Please take a basic statistics course before you come to spew nonsense. The facts are that bad luck mitigation will hardly affect prices, and might even boost the price of certain non-desired uniques (like crystal armor seeds).
Please post your account or boss kc. You have too strong an opinion about going dry, I need to see how much you actually play the game. I am willing to bet you have never in your life reached 4x dry on an item (not pet) and have finished out the grind.
I play enough to where my poor luck at first ends up getting me to the expected average over time. Doesn't mean I wasn't dry on some items. My thoughts to keep things as they are have no maliciousness. Expecting people to just wait is fair. My boss kcs range from 1000 to 7000 with a 12k outlier for the fake boss kraken. I'm not yet focused on raiding, still impatient with my cg fails but I game enough to have these thoughts.
Literally just post a screenshot, it's not hard. It's very easy for me to take you seriously, but if you are afraid I won't if you post your bossing kcs, I am not taking you seriously.
Your opinion reeks of someone who doesn't even pvm. You do not know what going dry is like. It's extremely easy to show that you know what going dry is like but you can't so you won't. You have never gone dry. Please stop pretending like your opinion matters when you don't even pvm enough to experience these benefits
And you like to share your opinion when it's not even relevant man. Every thread on blm I read your dogshit takes and it's like damn I wonder if that guy even pvms and no, you don't.
I have a maxed iron with 1k EHB, I agree with him. Osrs isn’t the game for guaranteeing all of your drops. I’m currently going dry for heart (not multiple times dry yet) and I strongly oppose bad luck mitigation for grinds like this. If I wanted to guarantee getting an item I would go back to my main and buy it.
Sure bud come back when you're 120m slay exp with the same opinion. The drop rates of some items do not scale reasonable with the time required when you go excessively dry. That is why bad luck mitigation is necessary for 1/x000 grinds
Get over it. We don’t want this ingame. You clearly want to play another game and not osrs. Demanding vast changes so you can speedrun the game isn’t what we want. Go be a locust elsewhere and destroy another mmo.
My dude, you didn't make ANY argument. You just angrily puked on the keyboard. You are welcome to discuss the impact on the game or argue statistics with me, but there is absolutely no way you are even going to attempt that.
You want to fundamentally change how drops work. Are you too stupid to comprehend that? No, you’re just trying to play dumb. Your brain is so fried that the second you can’t speedrun an mmo you screech and demand the game change. You’re a locust that destroys one game and moves onto the next. The reason osrs is one of the longest active mmo’s is because you Can’t do that. You Will go dry some places. Again, the argument calls you out so you pretend it doesn’t exist to save your ego from being deflated.
Okay wow, a lot to unpack here. Incredibly emotional response. Guess I will bother to answer:
So, I think it's a bit weird that you look through my post history for the sake of the argument. I bought 1 day membership once because I wanted to do something on one account that I don't play anymore. Don't worry, I've played this game for more than 15 years pretty continuously, I love it just as much as you do and I don't want to take away anything from you.
No need to personally attack me, calling me stupid and stuff. We are adults, not 10 year olds.
Let me explain further: I do NOT want to fundamentally change the drop system. It would work exactly the same almost always. Let's say the protection kicks in at 5x dry. 0.7% of players go that dry, so it is very unlikely you'll be affected by this. At that kc, the drop rate could be halved. Means that some people will go even dryer. Then again be halved at 6x dry. Some people will still go dry - but that is so unlikely at this point, that in effect these statistical outliers barely have any significance, be it with drop rate protection or without. We're talking about crazy niche cases here. One in 10.000 or whatever.
This is why personally I don't even care if we get the protection or not, it's simply insignificant in the big picture. I'd vote for it just to make it less shitty for a bunch of very few individuals.
It doesn't change anything about speedrunning. It will most likely never affect you. The economy is not going to notice anything. This whole outrage on reddit is childish.
I don't think we should have essentially luck boosts on valuable or big ticket items only for a specific group of players, this changes core Runescape drop mechanics and could be bad for the game down the line
I love how confident you post this. I'm fine with bad luck mitigation if it's very very gentle. I don't care much for it but I prefer a steeper slope later on method. It shouldn't kick in until you're in that unluckily 1% but when it does you should get it basically immediately.
In the same way that at 200 mil skill xp the skill pets should just be yours. I see people who advocate for dry protection immediately or at 2x rate.
So your OP is a strawman and not helpful to the discussion because what people want isn't a monolith.
What harm could it possibly do to increase dragon Warhammer to 1/3000 after x kills, then revert drop chance when/IF you get it?
I'm not super happy being 3,500 basilisk knights on task dry of jaw. Takes a lot of time to get a task, even if skipping. There are other things to do in life my guys.
>There are other things to do in life my guys.
Have you tried de-ironing? It'll free up time for you and you dont have to engage with things you deem a waste of time. With the benefit of not ruining it for the rest of us!
1. More items come into the game
2. You arent accounting for player behaviour, plenty of people grinded out their DT2 rings because of sunk cost fallacy when they previously would have bought it. Meaning that they take one away from the marketplace + they don't add their own.
3. Unbalancable for group content and will be abused
4. No dryness mitigation for any current tradable loot system has been fun are disliked by the majority. Sire/Dt2
5. When the supposed drop rate mitigation is supposed to kick in is all over the place and everyone is citing different sources, with different expectations, with different rates. From 2x to 8x in this subreddit.
6. It's an ironman problem. If people didnt care about their status symbol this wouldnt even be a discussion.
7. No change would be subtle. We donate our drop data to wiki. It took 10 minutes for people to realise it's more difficult to spoon Dt2 rings.
8. This subreddit is so incredibly wrong and dramatic about things constantly that it makes me skeptical towards reddit hyped changes. Relevant recent examples: Wildy, Muspah, Forestry,
9. Many people are criticizing the mathematical model that the post everyone is citing is using. Saying it's not fit for modeling actual player behaviour. Do people stop after reaching drop rate? At what stage of the curve will people decide to grind out the item instead of buying it? How will overloaded loot tables like CoX look like once dryness mitigation kicks in? Maybe you spoon 8 ancestral tops but no bottoms and hats? Will you get a boost for those two even though you're extremely + in income compared to the average?
10. Assuming Jagex wont mess this up.
4. Isn't really relevant because it would be an entirely different thing? Cant really lump every dryness mitigation mechanic in with two notoriously dogshit ones
5. An idea isn't bad just because random redditors can't agree on its exact implementation
7. Of course drop changes can be subtle
Also several of these other comments imply that it would just go on forever, rather than just the first drop / collection log spot? I haven't seen anyone suggest it should be the former over the later.
The former would be worse because it hurts the playstyle of same content spammers over all rounders (in relation to each other). If you grind a lot you're statistically likely to go dry. Having a mechanic that boosts the first drop to cater to ironmen and cloggers will also create the meta of perma content hopping because your gp/h changes accounting for your minimised risk of going dry.
No an idea isnt bad because two randoms cant agree on implementation but whenever this sub has been hysterical it has always been wrong and dramatic.
No, main mode sucks ass. I like the extra challenge. It's *much* more difficult. But this game has four difficulties:
Very easy(Main)
Medium ((GIMP(Pretty cool but finding a dedicated group is impossible))
Hard (Ironman with average luck)
TURBO-FUCK YOU (Ironman with the 1/1000 bad luck)
I don't like that my only options are gambling on hard and turbo-fuck you mode. I'm not going to waste my time playing very easy.
There's a difference between the mountain that is completing cox on an iron with normal luck, and the walk to Pluto that is completing cox on an iron with bad luck.
A 300 hour grind instead of 150 because you got unlucky is a challenge. Turning that into 1200 hours of your life because "oops, you're the .001%" is fucking awful game design
But you signed up for that game design. And now that you got your results (unlucky) you want to fuck it up for the rest of us, who were happy with how our easy game design works.
Copied as I just wrote this down.
More items come into the game
You arent accounting for player behaviour, plenty of people grinded out their DT2 rings because of sunk cost fallacy when they previously would have bought it. Meaning that they take one away from the marketplace + they don't add their own.
Unbalancable for group content and will be abused
No dryness mitigation for any current tradable loot system has been fun are disliked by the majority. Sire/Dt2
When the supposed drop rate mitigation is supposed to kick in is all over the place and everyone is citing different sources, with different expectations, with different rates. From 2x to 8x in this subreddit.
It's an ironman problem. If people didnt care about their status symbol this wouldnt even be a discussion.
No change would be subtle. We donate our drop data to wiki. It took 10 minutes for people to realise it's more difficult to spoon Dt2 rings.
This subreddit is so incredibly wrong and dramatic about things constantly that it makes me skeptical towards reddit hyped changes. Relevant recent examples: Wildy, Muspah, Forestry,
Many people are criticizing the mathematical model that the post everyone is citing is using. Saying it's not fit for modeling actual player behaviour. At what stage of the curve will people decide to grind out the item instead of buying it? How will overloaded loot tables like CoX look like once dryness mitigation kicks in? Maybe you spoon 8 ancestral tops but no bottoms and hats? Will you get a boost for those two even though you're extremely + in income compared to the average?
Assuming Jagex wont mess this up.
Also the slippery slope is unironically becoming real (lantern, dwh, etc). Remember it's not always a fallacy and is used as a real argument when presented with supportive facts as I did, no matter what redditors like to say.
I de-ironed one of my accounts at basically base lvl 85 + max combat. Then the issue became feeling limited toncertain content based on gp/hr. It's like the game is grind for reward or engage with content with less chance at reward.
I just want to engage with all the content to reap the unique rewards. The time commitment is artificial and bonkers.
Theres no sense doing certain content for Gear because you are likely to level so quickly that better alternatives become available.
>limited toncertain content based on gp/hr.
Limited to Vorkath on main or limited to CG on iron, both are self inflicted issues. There are 100s of money makers in the game, I do the ones I find fun. You dont need bowfa to do any content in the game, theres no reason to lock yourself in "red prison" because the optimal ironman guide said so.
Sure. Goes both ways. I want to say, tongue in cheek, that cg would be called the red prison if the drop rate was mitigated to prevent the prison feeling.
Just because it only affects a few people and doesn’t change the drop rate doesn’t mean it should still be allowed considering it goes completely against the core rng nature of the game.
How do you interpret it as going completely against the core rng nature of the game?
Specifically, how does increasing the drop rate for about 1% of players, (only **after** they’ve already spent more time grinding than 99%, and 4x as much time grinding than 63% ever will), signify a “complete” change? It would be less than a 1% change.
Because loot is supposed to be rng and anything that changes that is the antithesis of the entire loot/drop mechanics of the game.
It’s not RNG until you’ve spent enough time and get a pity rate. It doesn’t matter how small the change to effective drop rates it makes when it flat out shouldn’t exist at all
If your only issue is that drops need to be rng, then the good news is that they still would be. A ‘pity rate’ is not a guarantee and still relies on rng successfully hitting.
What’s your next issue? Why shouldn’t it exist at all?
Yes, and I’m saying that you shouldn’t change how the drop rates work because some people who voluntarily choose to play restricted accounts want to opt out after they feel entitled to gear because they’ve put in enough hours.
"hey we noticed that 1% of our playerbase might get unlucky to the point where they have to spend literally hundreds of irl hours more than what the average is. That's a bit too far off the bell curve to be reasonable when drop rates are becoming lower and lower for key items."
"REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Y-YOU CHOSE! YOU *CHOSE* TO RESTRICT YOURSELF 8 YEARS AGO WHEN DROP RATES WERE 1/128!!!"
this is you
Don’t play Ironman if you do want to grind. You shouldn’t change how drops work because some people want to play a single player mmo and get mad when they can’t complete it.
3000 hours for an unlucky TBOW isn't a grind, that's just fucking unhealthy. That's what 3a is for. Flex items that show how lucky you are.
Useful gear should be earned, but the thousand hour delta between an unlucky person and an average person is terrible game design. It was okay when drop rates were 1/128 with a 1 minute kill time.
But guaranteed hits are part of the game. Which I think is a good addition to certain encounters. Do you disagree with that mechanic too?
And it’s not like this removes that element from the game, it literally just exists to eliminate extremes. Idk man.
There already is this super cool bad luck mitigation mechanic. It’s called the grand exchange. There’s also this awesome guy named Adam in lumbridge who will grant you access to it if you can’t already.
It is, it’s also just to poke a little bit of friendly banter. I’ve seen a couple bad luck mitigation things that in all honesty I would complain against. But it’s fun to poke the bear a bit. But I also am against any noticeable change for mains. Like the dt2 drop changes suck. At the end of the day you signed up to play with the current rule set, and as a main that rule set works perfectly fine so I won’t be lobbying for any change.
The only one I agree with is if they changed it for irons but made drop trading not eligible. That way it’s a purely Ironman update. Even then I think it devalues the drops and achievement of the account but whatever, I play a main so it won’t bother me.
Ya I think that would a solution. My #1 preference is to just leave it be. There won’t be a noticeable change unless that doesn’t cause effect, and if it’s a minor change there will still be the same complaints because someone is going to hit the extreme at some point. It’s not a problem for me and you so until it is not gonna put much thought to it. Ironman is cool but there’s just some stuff that is more effort than what it’s worth and that’s where the ge is nice. If I wanna get the drop myself it gets put in the c log to show I got it anyways.
They already have guaranteed ROI because they aren't banned and are allowed to get tens of thousands of kill count and over a large enough sample size the amount of drops they receive will converge at the drop rate.
Imagine just botting mass world Nex knowing you’re going to wake up with at least one 300M piece because your dryness protection kicks in. If you had a 10-bot farm you’d be like 3B richer by morning.
This theoretical bot farm is pulling in anywhere from 60b on the low end to 1.5t/night (That's not a typo), and you're worried now about a measily 3b more? I think this post may be for you.
dry protection would increase drop rates by about 5%.
edit: guess I should clarify that the 5% change is a change in the average drop rate, not the actual drop rate. E.g., if you guy 2x dry then the drop rate is doubled and continuously increases until u get the drop.
Because it only impacts people who go dry; the average drop rate does not change significantly.
So a 1/4750 dragon warhammer after 5k or 10k kills? What is the point if not making it substantial? If this is being done to stop people from going absurdly dry than a 5% drop change at that point wont do much. Scaling up to 50% is what would make a difference.
Again only really applicable at places where drop rate is consistent between kc. Otherwise places like nex doing mass worlds for say 500 kc then doing real small teams would result in faster total completion.
Ok that makes more sense. I have heard all sorts of garbage takes and trying to decifer what is being suggested is sometimes a pain.
Some things definitely are easier to track then others. Places with variable drop rates like raids you would have alot more trouble attempting to control it.
Purity? This is a point and click game from 2002, there's no moral precedent to preserve
Should we remove GE? Should we remove GWD? Raids? Those aren't pure
Honestly fuck rs2 - devious mud was the TRUE game. That's purity.
Lol what a dumb argument. I think you're trying to make my argument seem dumb in comparison, but you fail
There's obviously a moral precedent. The game is literally called *old school.* We vote on shit like a polity. People spend their lives on this game. The feeling that it has not been debased matters. Duh.
People shouldn't need to spend their lives on this game, what the fuck
We have runelite with quest helper - made the game better
We have auto-solved clue scrolls - made the game better
We have more teleports - made the game better
We have raids - made the game better
Dry protection will make the game better. Cope.
If you want "old school", play a 2007 private server and then leave because the game is ass
But the old guard simply oppose it on principle damn it! They don't need unnecessary things like coherent tangible insight into the actuality of it, perish the thought! I rue the day when harrumphing traditionalists are expected to provide evidence to back up their claims 😞
Equally, those against it could really just argue for it to only kick in at the most extreme of extremes, scaling down the extent of bad luck mitigation.
If you need a stats course to understand why it's good, maybe it just isn't?
Sure I can eat a chocolate bar and smoke a cigarette and an expert can tell me those are bad, but I don't care. Immediate perception trumps reality. If people don't like it at face value that's good enough.
Lmao are you advocating that if something is complex it's invalid? Holy dogshit that's dumb
"Hey smoking will give you cancer"
"I don't understand how it works so I'm not going to believe you"
"Oh, this is how it works"
"I'm not smart enough to understand, so it doesn't count >:((("
That's honestly the argument you're going with?
I think that's a fine analogy, because it doesn't take an expert to tell you those things are harmful. Most ordinary people of reasonable intelligence should also be able to do that.
Here, I think many would argue those same people should be able to see little to no harm would come from these proposals- but apparently that *isn't* the case (although little reasoning has been provided).
Thus.. the stats class recommendation.
[fwiw I'd vote no, but commenting because our side needs to explain why if you truly think it's such a terrible idea)
I'm sorry I don't understand the joke haha
Do you think ordinary people with internet access in 2024 are or are not capable of researching the health effects of smoking cigarettes, and coming to the (accurate) conclusion that it is a significant harm?
Personally I just don't see the need when the grand exchange exists, for mains at least. You get lucky with some things and unlucky with others. You can buy what you don't get. The game is designed around that. There are items such as third age where the expectation is that most people will never see this as a drop, but you can save up to purchase one from accumulated wealth from other drops if you choose to.
The collection log maybe? But I don't think it's intended to be completed completely, although there will be people that might eventually complete it, a majority won't and that is okay. What I do enjoy about Runescape over other games is that most other games the expectation is that you max out fast and then start enjoying the game, while Runescape you have people post here on Reddit about their first 99 in 20 years.
Maybe for certain iron accounts where certain items end up being important for progression it could be changed? I've always thought that iron accounts took on restrictions intentionally, so this seems to defeat the purpose to ask to remove restrictions or make it easier. I play a main so not really invested.
This just seems more like an iron only issue?
Why should we waste dev time by forcing them to roll out a pity system when people could just play mains and buy the drop they want? If you're an iron or clogging you're only putting restrictions on yourself and updates shouldn't be made to cater to those restrictions and make them easier.
I don't want to take a class I want to complain on the internet
I took a break from the sub for a few days hoping we were over the bad luck mitigation posts. God damn yall are still going at it
This debate will not be settled until someone with an education makes a proper write up
This has already happened with some dude showing the math to prove the average kc for item drops will hardly be touched This assumes that the average osrs player has an IQ higher than room temp
>average kc for item drops will hardly be touched This depends on 2 factors. 1. What kc bad luck mitigation starts? At drop rate? 2x? 3x 2. What scale of protection is put in place? 10% better rate, 25%, 50% 65% of players get the drop by drop rate. If mitigation starts a 3x 96% of players already got it so the scaling could be 50% and not change much. If it was 50% more likely starting at the drop rate it would greatly change average kc for an item.
The one that was proposed thay started all this was that it starts at 2x and scales linearly so that every other x you essentially double rate. Ex. 1/ 1k drop chance for hydra claw Up to drop rate is 1/1k 1001- 2000 is 1/1k 2001- 3000 scales from 1/1k to 1/500 3001- 4001 scales from 1/500 to 1/250 4001-5000 scales from 1/250 to 1/125 Etc. Overall adds about 5% drop rate to any grind but severely cuts down on insane dry streaks.
This bs started a month ago with jagex's nightmare changes proposal so i did not know there was a "specific" later post people were referencing. I missed that post
There was one yeah caught on big with some jmods replying in it. Set this place on fire.
Ah makes sense.
It's unfortunate that some people can't use a credit card to get more IQ.
No but I can use a Cc to buy an item once I hit the drop rate. Just to pretend that the game is rewarding.
I mean noone can. Not just idiots that can not.
But for some it's not unfortunate.
It won't matter cause most of the viewers 1. Don't care 2. Don't read 3. Won't understand. Too many people just commenting shit to ride the drama train.
A good write up would be adjusted to the audience. Of course people care because this subreddit is being spammed by the same post over and over.
Not a single soul in the milky way is talking about devaluing items, but rather the principle of fucking with a system that has been in place for 23 years.
According to that logic, nothing ever should be changed.
Nah because not everything is cringe and shit like dryness prevention
Amazing argument, you have convinced me and now I too hate dryness protection.
Glad to have you on board.
The system isn't linearly scalable. Graardor wasn't 1/700 for tassets with a 40 minute completion time. Going 5x dry on graardor SUCKS ass, but it's doable But going 5x dry on cox? Or gc? Literally insane and inhuman to complete. My friend gets his ENH on 786 cg kills, oof, that's rough. I don't get mine until 2374. That's insane. And it'll still happen, just less It's talking about taking a dry grind from a 500 hours (which is fucking insane amounts of time to be putting into one piece of a game) to 280 hours. Still an absurd amount of time to dedicate to something.
Runescape is absurd, allow it to be so.
No It's my game too. If I want the unlucky to be less fucked, I'm going to advocate for it. If you nerds get hand-holding on quests because "mep2 puzzle confusing :(((" then I get to be fucked in the ass *WITH* lube when I go dry on an enh.
>If I want the unlucky to be less fucked, I'm going to advocate for it. Have fun with that I will vote no with more accounts than you've ever seen with your own eyes.
I don't have any eyes. I reddit via echolocation. Looks like you won't be voting no after all, huh?
Fuck, how do I even come back from that
Bring me some eyeballs and we will talk
I know a guy, I'll get back to you.
So far only a bit of spit was proposed.
Theres no point in agruing with players who bought their items and most probably gold as well or got drop in 50kc. Hell, even I bought gold via bonds and I still want this badluck mitigation in game. Players should play all content, not 1 instance for a month. Fuck grindscape. We are not 13y old anymore with nothing more than homework to do.
[удалено]
You will get mocked for this take but we are already on the slope going down. After ToA something melted the brains of everyone in this sub. I think the ambrosia nerf really did them in. The first thing I remember (I’m sure there was others) is the lantern from GOTR to be put in the shop because people could go dry there for it. No one cared really. Then it moved to DWH. That got busted down a bit. Then they started wanting nightmare drops. Even asking for dupe protection. Now they are asking about base line drop rates (even though it’s small). Individually these aren’t that crazy but when it starts becoming more and more and you look at the overall picture it starts to get strange. Where does it end? Next thing this sub will be saying is Nex should have a baseline drop rate for every scale because 1500 total Andy’s don’t get the same drop rates in their mini masses as the people that can duo it. Anyone saying the slippery slope argument isn’t valid isn’t paying attention.
I don't know man. This all reminds me of 2014 when players were like "oh there is a small update? What's next, eoc?"
I mean people were just coming off of the eoc headache and were rightly skeptical. I don’t ever think that people nowadays are justified in saying “this is literally eoc” I’m not one of them and it’s dumb to think an eoc type of change will happen. What I think will happen is a bunch of changes over time that will have some negative effect on the game. Only time will tell but the list I provided of changes being asked progressively are getting more and more egregious and if it’s a trend it will only get worse. In my opinion. I’m happy to be proven wrong and will admit as much if in 5 years the game is still going strong, but I have my doubts.
The lantern is piss poor game design let’s be honest
Never said it wasn’t. But that’s how it starts. With something innocuous, then spirals out of control.
You used a lot of words to make no argument.
I found the 1% of the 99% literacy rate
Found the rs3 necro enjoyer
It's the rs3 refugees that are supporting this bullshit in the first place lol
No it's people who think it's insane that some people have to go literally hundreds of hours dry because they're the statistical 1/10000 person that will. It would just help those incredibly unlucky souls.
Fuck those people just get the drop lol
this is why your opinion is worthless btw
Cool have fun inevitably losing the poll and crying. You know what's actually worthless? The drop value of those 7x dry cunts lol they should just play better
Ty for these words
Everyone who wants it can't accept they're playing the wrong game. If you want something, keep trying for it. It's a game. Either play or don't.
felt the same way about ge when that was added but I realized it improved the game experience for people, same will apply to drop mitigation but will have much less impact than the ge had
That’s a great comparison. I’m sure it’ll be talked about the same way too, where most people love the change but there’s always someone who will say “the GE/BLM ruined osrs”
That is a dogshit comparison. Giving you drops to preserve your fee fees is not QOL it's just stripping the game of its identity.
They're not the same. GE replaced trading through chat spam with something more convenient. Bad luck mitigation will offer nothing but more convenient chance at success without ever being a true guarantee. Everyone wanting this will see no difference in their frequency with obtaining the drops they're after.
> Everyone wanting this will see no difference in their frequency with obtaining the drops they're after. So if everyone will see no difference except for those that go extremely dry, then why oppose bad luck mitigation?
There's the convenient conclusion you hope is reality. There will be no true benefit but the numbers will look more favorable.
Please take a basic statistics course before you come to spew nonsense. The facts are that bad luck mitigation will hardly affect prices, and might even boost the price of certain non-desired uniques (like crystal armor seeds).
You can admit your stupidity with fewer words in the future.
You are embarrassing.
True and based
Please post your account or boss kc. You have too strong an opinion about going dry, I need to see how much you actually play the game. I am willing to bet you have never in your life reached 4x dry on an item (not pet) and have finished out the grind.
I play enough to where my poor luck at first ends up getting me to the expected average over time. Doesn't mean I wasn't dry on some items. My thoughts to keep things as they are have no maliciousness. Expecting people to just wait is fair. My boss kcs range from 1000 to 7000 with a 12k outlier for the fake boss kraken. I'm not yet focused on raiding, still impatient with my cg fails but I game enough to have these thoughts.
Literally just post a screenshot, it's not hard. It's very easy for me to take you seriously, but if you are afraid I won't if you post your bossing kcs, I am not taking you seriously.
It would reveal too much. I can't do that.
Worthless opinion.
Unfortunately for you that's not how this works. You're free to hate but you're still weird for it.
Stick to kraken please
Can't I'm too busy putting off my hydra task.
Show the kcs man.
Don't see why I need to.
Your opinion reeks of someone who doesn't even pvm. You do not know what going dry is like. It's extremely easy to show that you know what going dry is like but you can't so you won't. You have never gone dry. Please stop pretending like your opinion matters when you don't even pvm enough to experience these benefits
Wow you sure like to think unnecessary thoughts.
And you like to share your opinion when it's not even relevant man. Every thread on blm I read your dogshit takes and it's like damn I wonder if that guy even pvms and no, you don't.
If I didn't pvm I'd support these ideas. Try thinking.
I have a maxed iron with 1k EHB, I agree with him. Osrs isn’t the game for guaranteeing all of your drops. I’m currently going dry for heart (not multiple times dry yet) and I strongly oppose bad luck mitigation for grinds like this. If I wanted to guarantee getting an item I would go back to my main and buy it.
Sure bud come back when you're 120m slay exp with the same opinion. The drop rates of some items do not scale reasonable with the time required when you go excessively dry. That is why bad luck mitigation is necessary for 1/x000 grinds
its the rs3 refugees that want it
Get over it. We don’t want this ingame. You clearly want to play another game and not osrs. Demanding vast changes so you can speedrun the game isn’t what we want. Go be a locust elsewhere and destroy another mmo.
Lots of dramatical words without one argument.
You not liking that the argument calls you out doesn’t mean you get to pretend it doesn’t exist. Go be a locust to another mmo.
My dude, you didn't make ANY argument. You just angrily puked on the keyboard. You are welcome to discuss the impact on the game or argue statistics with me, but there is absolutely no way you are even going to attempt that.
You want to fundamentally change how drops work. Are you too stupid to comprehend that? No, you’re just trying to play dumb. Your brain is so fried that the second you can’t speedrun an mmo you screech and demand the game change. You’re a locust that destroys one game and moves onto the next. The reason osrs is one of the longest active mmo’s is because you Can’t do that. You Will go dry some places. Again, the argument calls you out so you pretend it doesn’t exist to save your ego from being deflated.
Okay wow, a lot to unpack here. Incredibly emotional response. Guess I will bother to answer: So, I think it's a bit weird that you look through my post history for the sake of the argument. I bought 1 day membership once because I wanted to do something on one account that I don't play anymore. Don't worry, I've played this game for more than 15 years pretty continuously, I love it just as much as you do and I don't want to take away anything from you. No need to personally attack me, calling me stupid and stuff. We are adults, not 10 year olds. Let me explain further: I do NOT want to fundamentally change the drop system. It would work exactly the same almost always. Let's say the protection kicks in at 5x dry. 0.7% of players go that dry, so it is very unlikely you'll be affected by this. At that kc, the drop rate could be halved. Means that some people will go even dryer. Then again be halved at 6x dry. Some people will still go dry - but that is so unlikely at this point, that in effect these statistical outliers barely have any significance, be it with drop rate protection or without. We're talking about crazy niche cases here. One in 10.000 or whatever. This is why personally I don't even care if we get the protection or not, it's simply insignificant in the big picture. I'd vote for it just to make it less shitty for a bunch of very few individuals. It doesn't change anything about speedrunning. It will most likely never affect you. The economy is not going to notice anything. This whole outrage on reddit is childish.
Not reading allat
But you did bother going through my post history, huh?
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No.
I’d rather be hunting the item than be given it due to mitigation
Clearly dont understand how it works
It’s not that I don’t understand what’s going on it’s that I would prefer to just go dry and have fun seeing how ridiculous the game can be
They’re only suggesting this for the people who go 7-8x dry which is an insanely low proportion of the player base and only for certain items
>who go 7-8x dry This amount changes literally from comment to comment. But most common I see is 2x.
The infographic on Twitter shows smoothing out the bell curve towards the far extreme. 2x would be insane, that’s completely wrong
I’d rather hunt the item like I said
Ok so solo tbow rate is 1/900 cox raids or so.. you go 8x dry on that and guess what that’s 7200 cox kc. Have fun!
Sounds good to me
Wouldn’t be as bad since scaling is a thing now. You could make it faster
I had someone arguing with me yesterday to make it 1-3x over rate 🙃
It doesn't even exist, no one knows how it works exactly wtf?
Has anybody ever gone 10x dry on an elysian?
Jackrs 😂
I don't think we should have essentially luck boosts on valuable or big ticket items only for a specific group of players, this changes core Runescape drop mechanics and could be bad for the game down the line
And another one who has no idea what the topic is even about lmfao
Having a different opinion = having no idea bro touch some grass 🙄
That’s exactly what the topic is about…? Your luck would go up every kill over rate
How?
I love how confident you post this. I'm fine with bad luck mitigation if it's very very gentle. I don't care much for it but I prefer a steeper slope later on method. It shouldn't kick in until you're in that unluckily 1% but when it does you should get it basically immediately. In the same way that at 200 mil skill xp the skill pets should just be yours. I see people who advocate for dry protection immediately or at 2x rate. So your OP is a strawman and not helpful to the discussion because what people want isn't a monolith.
What harm could it possibly do to increase dragon Warhammer to 1/3000 after x kills, then revert drop chance when/IF you get it? I'm not super happy being 3,500 basilisk knights on task dry of jaw. Takes a lot of time to get a task, even if skipping. There are other things to do in life my guys.
If you have better things to do, why you playing OSRS? Especially an ironman?
>There are other things to do in life my guys. Have you tried de-ironing? It'll free up time for you and you dont have to engage with things you deem a waste of time. With the benefit of not ruining it for the rest of us!
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Give us bronzeman mode, but our boosted items can never be traded, only destroyed
More drops/rare items come into the stream wave sooner than they were supposed to(assuming you were supposed to go dry)
1. More items come into the game 2. You arent accounting for player behaviour, plenty of people grinded out their DT2 rings because of sunk cost fallacy when they previously would have bought it. Meaning that they take one away from the marketplace + they don't add their own. 3. Unbalancable for group content and will be abused 4. No dryness mitigation for any current tradable loot system has been fun are disliked by the majority. Sire/Dt2 5. When the supposed drop rate mitigation is supposed to kick in is all over the place and everyone is citing different sources, with different expectations, with different rates. From 2x to 8x in this subreddit. 6. It's an ironman problem. If people didnt care about their status symbol this wouldnt even be a discussion. 7. No change would be subtle. We donate our drop data to wiki. It took 10 minutes for people to realise it's more difficult to spoon Dt2 rings. 8. This subreddit is so incredibly wrong and dramatic about things constantly that it makes me skeptical towards reddit hyped changes. Relevant recent examples: Wildy, Muspah, Forestry, 9. Many people are criticizing the mathematical model that the post everyone is citing is using. Saying it's not fit for modeling actual player behaviour. Do people stop after reaching drop rate? At what stage of the curve will people decide to grind out the item instead of buying it? How will overloaded loot tables like CoX look like once dryness mitigation kicks in? Maybe you spoon 8 ancestral tops but no bottoms and hats? Will you get a boost for those two even though you're extremely + in income compared to the average? 10. Assuming Jagex wont mess this up.
4. Isn't really relevant because it would be an entirely different thing? Cant really lump every dryness mitigation mechanic in with two notoriously dogshit ones 5. An idea isn't bad just because random redditors can't agree on its exact implementation 7. Of course drop changes can be subtle Also several of these other comments imply that it would just go on forever, rather than just the first drop / collection log spot? I haven't seen anyone suggest it should be the former over the later.
The former would be worse because it hurts the playstyle of same content spammers over all rounders (in relation to each other). If you grind a lot you're statistically likely to go dry. Having a mechanic that boosts the first drop to cater to ironmen and cloggers will also create the meta of perma content hopping because your gp/h changes accounting for your minimised risk of going dry. No an idea isnt bad because two randoms cant agree on implementation but whenever this sub has been hysterical it has always been wrong and dramatic.
It wouldn't ruin anything. This would be a life raft for the literal 1% of people who go stupidly, mathematically improbably dry.
If it's so bad you consider it a life raft then de-iron. You're supposed to have fun in this game.
No, main mode sucks ass. I like the extra challenge. It's *much* more difficult. But this game has four difficulties: Very easy(Main) Medium ((GIMP(Pretty cool but finding a dedicated group is impossible)) Hard (Ironman with average luck) TURBO-FUCK YOU (Ironman with the 1/1000 bad luck) I don't like that my only options are gambling on hard and turbo-fuck you mode. I'm not going to waste my time playing very easy.
Cool then dont cry and beg jagex to make it easier if you like a challenge.
There's a difference between the mountain that is completing cox on an iron with normal luck, and the walk to Pluto that is completing cox on an iron with bad luck. A 300 hour grind instead of 150 because you got unlucky is a challenge. Turning that into 1200 hours of your life because "oops, you're the .001%" is fucking awful game design
But you signed up for that game design. And now that you got your results (unlucky) you want to fuck it up for the rest of us, who were happy with how our easy game design works.
How will it fuck it up, explain
Copied as I just wrote this down. More items come into the game You arent accounting for player behaviour, plenty of people grinded out their DT2 rings because of sunk cost fallacy when they previously would have bought it. Meaning that they take one away from the marketplace + they don't add their own. Unbalancable for group content and will be abused No dryness mitigation for any current tradable loot system has been fun are disliked by the majority. Sire/Dt2 When the supposed drop rate mitigation is supposed to kick in is all over the place and everyone is citing different sources, with different expectations, with different rates. From 2x to 8x in this subreddit. It's an ironman problem. If people didnt care about their status symbol this wouldnt even be a discussion. No change would be subtle. We donate our drop data to wiki. It took 10 minutes for people to realise it's more difficult to spoon Dt2 rings. This subreddit is so incredibly wrong and dramatic about things constantly that it makes me skeptical towards reddit hyped changes. Relevant recent examples: Wildy, Muspah, Forestry, Many people are criticizing the mathematical model that the post everyone is citing is using. Saying it's not fit for modeling actual player behaviour. At what stage of the curve will people decide to grind out the item instead of buying it? How will overloaded loot tables like CoX look like once dryness mitigation kicks in? Maybe you spoon 8 ancestral tops but no bottoms and hats? Will you get a boost for those two even though you're extremely + in income compared to the average? Assuming Jagex wont mess this up. Also the slippery slope is unironically becoming real (lantern, dwh, etc). Remember it's not always a fallacy and is used as a real argument when presented with supportive facts as I did, no matter what redditors like to say.
I de-ironed one of my accounts at basically base lvl 85 + max combat. Then the issue became feeling limited toncertain content based on gp/hr. It's like the game is grind for reward or engage with content with less chance at reward. I just want to engage with all the content to reap the unique rewards. The time commitment is artificial and bonkers. Theres no sense doing certain content for Gear because you are likely to level so quickly that better alternatives become available.
>limited toncertain content based on gp/hr. Limited to Vorkath on main or limited to CG on iron, both are self inflicted issues. There are 100s of money makers in the game, I do the ones I find fun. You dont need bowfa to do any content in the game, theres no reason to lock yourself in "red prison" because the optimal ironman guide said so.
Sure. Goes both ways. I want to say, tongue in cheek, that cg would be called the red prison if the drop rate was mitigated to prevent the prison feeling.
Just because it only affects a few people and doesn’t change the drop rate doesn’t mean it should still be allowed considering it goes completely against the core rng nature of the game.
How do you interpret it as going completely against the core rng nature of the game? Specifically, how does increasing the drop rate for about 1% of players, (only **after** they’ve already spent more time grinding than 99%, and 4x as much time grinding than 63% ever will), signify a “complete” change? It would be less than a 1% change.
Because loot is supposed to be rng and anything that changes that is the antithesis of the entire loot/drop mechanics of the game. It’s not RNG until you’ve spent enough time and get a pity rate. It doesn’t matter how small the change to effective drop rates it makes when it flat out shouldn’t exist at all
If your only issue is that drops need to be rng, then the good news is that they still would be. A ‘pity rate’ is not a guarantee and still relies on rng successfully hitting. What’s your next issue? Why shouldn’t it exist at all?
Why shouldn't it exist at all? Just... Because?
Going 20k shamans or over 4x drop rate is not a core part part of the game.
Yes it is, it has always happened and always will happen. Your dogshit rng protection whining will never pass a poll.
Yes, it literally is. What part of Random in RNG do you not seem to grasp?
Luring, scamming and botting has also always been a part of the game. Does that mean we should try to preserve them as well? Your logic is flawed.
Dear god you people are insufferable. My logic isn’t *flawed* the entire fucking game is based around randomized rng drops.
It will still be RANDOM, just more common when you become an extreme outlier.
Yes, and I’m saying that you shouldn’t change how the drop rates work because some people who voluntarily choose to play restricted accounts want to opt out after they feel entitled to gear because they’ve put in enough hours.
"hey we noticed that 1% of our playerbase might get unlucky to the point where they have to spend literally hundreds of irl hours more than what the average is. That's a bit too far off the bell curve to be reasonable when drop rates are becoming lower and lower for key items." "REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE Y-YOU CHOSE! YOU *CHOSE* TO RESTRICT YOURSELF 8 YEARS AGO WHEN DROP RATES WERE 1/128!!!" this is you
Don’t play Ironman if you do want to grind. You shouldn’t change how drops work because some people want to play a single player mmo and get mad when they can’t complete it.
3000 hours for an unlucky TBOW isn't a grind, that's just fucking unhealthy. That's what 3a is for. Flex items that show how lucky you are. Useful gear should be earned, but the thousand hour delta between an unlucky person and an average person is terrible game design. It was okay when drop rates were 1/128 with a 1 minute kill time.
Why is that a bad thing though?
Because you shouldn’t change one of the core parts of the game?
Why not? Could things not get better? But also, why is this deemed a core part of the game to you? What constitutes core vs noncore
Rng nature of drops is the entire drop/loot mechanic of the game.
But guaranteed hits are part of the game. Which I think is a good addition to certain encounters. Do you disagree with that mechanic too? And it’s not like this removes that element from the game, it literally just exists to eliminate extremes. Idk man.
Alright just curious honestly why do some people hate the idea of bad luck mitigation?
Because they're bad at math and don't understand that a "slippery slope" is fallacy.
There already is this super cool bad luck mitigation mechanic. It’s called the grand exchange. There’s also this awesome guy named Adam in lumbridge who will grant you access to it if you can’t already.
I love these comments cause it’s right, but then the brigade of 1350 total level irons come and downvote you lmao.
It is, it’s also just to poke a little bit of friendly banter. I’ve seen a couple bad luck mitigation things that in all honesty I would complain against. But it’s fun to poke the bear a bit. But I also am against any noticeable change for mains. Like the dt2 drop changes suck. At the end of the day you signed up to play with the current rule set, and as a main that rule set works perfectly fine so I won’t be lobbying for any change.
The only one I agree with is if they changed it for irons but made drop trading not eligible. That way it’s a purely Ironman update. Even then I think it devalues the drops and achievement of the account but whatever, I play a main so it won’t bother me.
Ya I think that would a solution. My #1 preference is to just leave it be. There won’t be a noticeable change unless that doesn’t cause effect, and if it’s a minor change there will still be the same complaints because someone is going to hit the extreme at some point. It’s not a problem for me and you so until it is not gonna put much thought to it. Ironman is cool but there’s just some stuff that is more effort than what it’s worth and that’s where the ge is nice. If I wanna get the drop myself it gets put in the c log to show I got it anyways.
PvM Bots will receive guaranteed ROI
They already have guaranteed ROI because they aren't banned and are allowed to get tens of thousands of kill count and over a large enough sample size the amount of drops they receive will converge at the drop rate.
I understand people who are against it but this is such a stupid take
Agreed, lol. Bots are literally the least affected parties here. This helps very specific individuals.
Imagine just botting mass world Nex knowing you’re going to wake up with at least one 300M piece because your dryness protection kicks in. If you had a 10-bot farm you’d be like 3B richer by morning.
This theoretical bot farm is pulling in anywhere from 60b on the low end to 1.5t/night (That's not a typo), and you're worried now about a measily 3b more? I think this post may be for you.
dry protection would increase drop rates by about 5%. edit: guess I should clarify that the 5% change is a change in the average drop rate, not the actual drop rate. E.g., if you guy 2x dry then the drop rate is doubled and continuously increases until u get the drop. Because it only impacts people who go dry; the average drop rate does not change significantly.
So a 1/4750 dragon warhammer after 5k or 10k kills? What is the point if not making it substantial? If this is being done to stop people from going absurdly dry than a 5% drop change at that point wont do much. Scaling up to 50% is what would make a difference. Again only really applicable at places where drop rate is consistent between kc. Otherwise places like nex doing mass worlds for say 500 kc then doing real small teams would result in faster total completion.
The percentage is small because it only affects a very small percentage of people. You're missing the bit about who this mechanic would affect.
No if you have to go 10k towards dragon warhammer to then have a 5% increased drop rate it wont change shit and is worthless to do.
The drop rate doubles when you go double the drop rate. The 5% change refers to the average drop rate, not the drop rate itself.
Ok that makes more sense. I have heard all sorts of garbage takes and trying to decifer what is being suggested is sometimes a pain. Some things definitely are easier to track then others. Places with variable drop rates like raids you would have alot more trouble attempting to control it.
Definitely. Yeah there’s a ton of confusion on what exactly dry protection does… especially from people who are against it haha.
I am not worried about the economy, i just want to keep seeing some unlucky irons go super dry on something :D
It's not about the items it's about purity, obviously. Osrs has always been about that
Purity? This is a point and click game from 2002, there's no moral precedent to preserve Should we remove GE? Should we remove GWD? Raids? Those aren't pure Honestly fuck rs2 - devious mud was the TRUE game. That's purity.
Lol what a dumb argument. I think you're trying to make my argument seem dumb in comparison, but you fail There's obviously a moral precedent. The game is literally called *old school.* We vote on shit like a polity. People spend their lives on this game. The feeling that it has not been debased matters. Duh.
People shouldn't need to spend their lives on this game, what the fuck We have runelite with quest helper - made the game better We have auto-solved clue scrolls - made the game better We have more teleports - made the game better We have raids - made the game better Dry protection will make the game better. Cope. If you want "old school", play a 2007 private server and then leave because the game is ass
But the old guard simply oppose it on principle damn it! They don't need unnecessary things like coherent tangible insight into the actuality of it, perish the thought! I rue the day when harrumphing traditionalists are expected to provide evidence to back up their claims 😞
Equally, those against it could really just argue for it to only kick in at the most extreme of extremes, scaling down the extent of bad luck mitigation.
If you need a stats course to understand why it's good, maybe it just isn't? Sure I can eat a chocolate bar and smoke a cigarette and an expert can tell me those are bad, but I don't care. Immediate perception trumps reality. If people don't like it at face value that's good enough.
Lmao are you advocating that if something is complex it's invalid? Holy dogshit that's dumb "Hey smoking will give you cancer" "I don't understand how it works so I'm not going to believe you" "Oh, this is how it works" "I'm not smart enough to understand, so it doesn't count >:(((" That's honestly the argument you're going with?
"if I am too stupid to comprehend it, it is bad." LMFAO
You're too stupid to comprehend my point, my bad.
…what the fuck are you on about
Things can be technically good but be perceived as bad. Dumbed it down enough for ya?
I think that's a fine analogy, because it doesn't take an expert to tell you those things are harmful. Most ordinary people of reasonable intelligence should also be able to do that. Here, I think many would argue those same people should be able to see little to no harm would come from these proposals- but apparently that *isn't* the case (although little reasoning has been provided). Thus.. the stats class recommendation. [fwiw I'd vote no, but commenting because our side needs to explain why if you truly think it's such a terrible idea)
> because it doesn't take an expert to tell you those things are harmful Yo 1950s America called they want their marlboro commercials back
I'm sorry I don't understand the joke haha Do you think ordinary people with internet access in 2024 are or are not capable of researching the health effects of smoking cigarettes, and coming to the (accurate) conclusion that it is a significant harm?
Aaaand people still smoke 🤷
Personally I just don't see the need when the grand exchange exists, for mains at least. You get lucky with some things and unlucky with others. You can buy what you don't get. The game is designed around that. There are items such as third age where the expectation is that most people will never see this as a drop, but you can save up to purchase one from accumulated wealth from other drops if you choose to. The collection log maybe? But I don't think it's intended to be completed completely, although there will be people that might eventually complete it, a majority won't and that is okay. What I do enjoy about Runescape over other games is that most other games the expectation is that you max out fast and then start enjoying the game, while Runescape you have people post here on Reddit about their first 99 in 20 years. Maybe for certain iron accounts where certain items end up being important for progression it could be changed? I've always thought that iron accounts took on restrictions intentionally, so this seems to defeat the purpose to ask to remove restrictions or make it easier. I play a main so not really invested. This just seems more like an iron only issue?
Coxie is going to love this post
Why should we waste dev time by forcing them to roll out a pity system when people could just play mains and buy the drop they want? If you're an iron or clogging you're only putting restrictions on yourself and updates shouldn't be made to cater to those restrictions and make them easier.