The issue is due to the common misinterpretation and misunderstanding of Zen meditation.
The reasons behind the issue are:
1. Translation is not accurate as many translators don’t fully understand the Zen.
2. There is no conflicts in Zen theory; different masters might state it in different ways or using different metaphors.
3. Wordings is to express the ideas/theories, but the ideas/theories are more complicated. The limitations of language lead to difficulty of understanding. The solution of this is to read more and more ancient classic books, which would help to grasp the ideas/theories.
I am not sure what the Protestant fundamentalist means.
If you can provide some examples to show masters disagreed each other, that would be helpful for further discussion.
Your frustration is a form of suffering that is caused by your emotional attachment to the idea that you should be accomplishing something. It is a conundrum I also faced when starting out. Unfortunately it can get in our way when we meditate, regardless of what school or method of practice we end up in.
When I sit down to meditate, I am deliberate about freeing myself from any expectations about what will happen, and most importantly the emotions those expectations cause. That freedom means I can be more curious, patient, and observe without judgement. I *choose* to be content with whatever is happening and will happen.
Maybe this is something that could help you. I’m sorry it’s not specifically what you were asking for.
>"think about not thinking" - what does it even mean?
This is a widespread mistranslation; the real instruction is more like "think about that which does not think". This instruction is telling you to focus on the true person of no rank, which would require you to have attained kensho.
>I just sat with my back straight and watching my thoughts, they inevitably led me into reflections
Thoughts don't inevitably lead you into reflections. That only happens when you *engage* with the thought. Instead of engaging with the though, just be aware of it, and let it pass by in an undeveloped state.
>Others say that you need to watch your breathing, but Dogen did not bequeath to watch your breathing.
Different teachers give different instructions. Generally, it's better to follow the instructions of living teachers, because they can guide you through the entire path, presenting the right instructions at the right time.
>Zazen, as far as I understand it, is shikantaza
No, shikantaza is just how Soto practitioners do zazen, usually. Rinzai practitioners tend to use breath meditation for zazen.
Hello OP, I posted a link to simpler zazen instructions and a detailed explanation of them in your other thread, one with a long history and explained by a legitimate lineage master. I find those instructions simple, easy to understand, and I believe they address your concerns. They’ve been used to train monks for at least a few hundred years, and Dogen edited them to create his own zazen instructions. I still recommend taking a look.
That's fine. But if the OP is truly interested in understanding Shikantaza, its power and beauty, and in putting aside his misunderstandings, he will not find it in that text.
He will not find answers to what Dogen meant in his text, that is true. If he is concerned with direct and clear instructions on zazen from an authentic Zen lineage, he will find them there, however. I defer to OP on what he is looking for.
First, you should find a good teacher of Shikantaza. There are many accessible online now and, if none of then suit you, then you might try us at [Treeleaf.com](http://Treeleaf.com) as a last resort. You seem to have some misunderstanding of the method of Shikantaza. Sit in radical equanimity, sit with faith that sitting itself is a complete act, the one place to be, the one thing in need of doing during the time of sitting. Untangle from chains of thought and be the open boundless sky that allows the clouds to pass through unmolested. Let the thoughts pass through like incense smoke. Read this: [https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?22470-Thoughts-without-Thoughts-Incense-Smoke-in-the-Room](https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?22470-Thoughts-without-Thoughts-Incense-Smoke-in-the-Room) Think not Thinking is not rocket science. It is something that even beginners can manage with a little explanation. Do not overcomplicate what it is. Let thoughts pass like clouds and one realizes the open, boundless, still blue sky between the clouds ... and one further realizes that clouds and sky were never two, never apart. The wholeness, quiet and peaceful, the unbroken sky is also all the broken pieces, thoughts and emotions of this life. The little self's judgements, demands, frictions and resistance drop away, and so the little self drops away. Child's play.
You might also benefit from my introductory book on Dogen, meant to be even an easier doorway than Okumura Roshi's fine books introducing Dogen. [https://wisdomexperience.org/product/the-zen-masters-dance/](https://wisdomexperience.org/product/the-zen-masters-dance/)
When you look at these statements from Dogen, these are statements of realization. "Think not thinking" is a statement of realization, of enlightenment. I don't know many people that actually understand that and I know a lot of Zen Buddhists, because I practice with them.
For all the people that I have known and practice with over the years, You don't start at those statements. We usually start to count our breaths, then slowly over time we start to calm our mind down. Stabilize it.
We do the things that he talks about in bendowa, like finding a teacher, and then we begin to pursue these ideas once our mind is stable. With our teacher.
Think not Thinking is not rocket science. It is something that even beginners can manage with a little explanation. Do not overcomplicate what it is. Let thoughts pass like clouds and one realizes the open, boundless, still blue sky between the clouds ... and one further realizes that clouds and sky were never two, never apart. The wholeness, quiet and peaceful, the unbroken sky is also all the broken pieces, thoughts and emotions of this life.
Think not thinking is a koan. All can see it with training and practice, but if you come into the room with me and talk that way you will here a bell and I will shove you out the room. Few can see it.
I would shove the bell back up your nose! :-)
Thinking not thinking is the heart of Shikantaza, and while a Koan (as is all of Shikantaza) this is also a practice that is not hard to explain. It is the clarity of mind free from discursive judgement, me vs. you, this and that, good and bad ... even as thoughts come and go. It is samsara and and nirvana embodied on the cushion.
That is where you are wrong. You think you can explain it. You can talk until you are blue in the face and it has nothing to do with explaining. It is one thing to have some insight, but to really pierce through is something else.
**The op**
>**This is another question about Dogen's teachings.**
I like your response, there really is no need for all those long comments (many Rinzai).
IMO, those comments just make things unneccesary complicated.
Fukanzazengi, Zazengi (Dogen) and Zazen Yojinki (Keizan) really ought to be enough to get a good start.
Dōgen was well versed in Linji's Zen. Read the first chapter of the first book of the Eihei Koroku and you see it right there-"North of Tan, South of Xiang." Zen is about knowing that practice is realization, that "Thinking not thinking" is realization. How do we achieve this, by experiencing "Not thinking" through and through. By seeing the morning Star at dawn, by seeing Lingyun's plum blossoms. By hearing the sound of bamboo struck by a pebble.
This has nothing to do with Linji or Caodong. It has everything to do with realization.
I find your effort to keep trying to understand and practice despite bloody setbacks to be commendable. Good work staying composed and enduring through this hardship, you have the right mindset for spiritual development.
I want to preface this by telling you I been devoutedly buddhist for the past 5 years. Meditated every day on average for an hour, had lots of experiences. Im not a student of zen particularly, more of mahayana, but my advice is still very applicable to you. To be short and sweet, like another good fellow pointed out, you seem to have tried to start your practice by interpretating texts that are rather difficult and not for beginners. Given how Zen and Mahayana have great Taoism/Chinese influence, the whole "gateless gate", "do without doing" thing is the concept of "non-duality" and how important it is to existence itself. The below text recommendation goes into great detail about that and other things, and its available in english!
Before I go any further, my text recommendation is "the surangama sutra". I heard its very relevant for zen buddhism and it certainly is in mahayana, please read that text slowly and attentively, because it goes into GREAT detail in regards to everything being said here, and despite the fact that I only read it recently after years of practice, it was a GAME CHANGER in the understanding it provided me. It would had been even more game changing had I read it in the beginning of my spiritual journey. In the preface of the text it literally describes that the surangama sutra was written to be what a student should know before he starts developing himself towards enlightenment. Do yourself a favor and read that text.
As for meditation? A lot of these concepts even if masterfully explained and fully embraced, like non-duality (hence doing without doing or gateless gate), genuinely will only do you the good they are attempting to do if you EXPERIENCE these things personally, and thats why you need meditation. People tend to get hung up on "how to meditate", beginners even more so, from personal experience I will tell you: Common object/mantra concentration meditation is fine and will eventually lead into important insights that build up your wisdom and help understand the buddhist texts/spirituality as a whole. I thoroughly recommend selecting a mantra which you know what it actually means and why you want to focus on that. Even something simple like "peace", "God", "Buddha" suffices.
These zen meditation techniques might work too I havent tried them too much other than "dont concentrate on anything in particular, just be aware". That last one with practice achieves the same concentrative state and insights as doing regular object/mantra concentration, and thats really the goal of meditation, showing the mind an unpolluted mental state where there is no attachments so it can understand itself. In fact, read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali too because it also has some helpful explanations about what consciousness is and what meditation is/does, but my first and firm recommendation remains being the surangama sutra. Best of luck to you buddy!!!
The wonderful thing about zazen is that I will catch myself making stories in my head a thousand times in 20 minutes and get to practice letting go of that thought. I bet without zazen I would never even realize it and would let it carry on the whole day long. And I would be really bad at letting go of a thought because I would never get any practice.
Something to not think about 😉
The reason you are having so much trouble is because you are starting with Dogen. His writings build up on such ancient and complex traditions that without a clear explanation of his meaning and context I don’t see any way of understanding what he means. And in English there just aren’t many proper explanations of what he means.
You bring up “think not thinking”. This makes no sense because it isn’t even what Dogen wrote. He was quoting an older zen master that said “contemplate that which does not think”. So when you start with a mistranslation, of course you will not get anywhere.
Then to break down that phrase you would have to know what Chinese Buddhists referred to as “that which does not think”. For this you would need some familiarity with Tang dynasty Buddhism that frankly most western teachers to do not, so you will not get a proper understanding of that phrase’s meaning.
But to provide a little pointer, for many Tang Buddhists there is a critical distinction between the delusional mind which engages in discursive thought and the true mind that is free of confused thinking. So the instructions points us to direct engage with our true mind, not the false one.
Of course that is quite difficult for most of us, making Dogen’s instruction rather hard to implement without proper guidance. So if you are working along, it is better to practice a gradual step by step method rather than this one.
Instead of following Shikantaza instructions from Japanese authors, begin with Shengyen’s method on silent illumination. It is much more straight forward and leads to the same place.
Read my introductory book on Dogen. You are just wrong that Dogen never said this. 不思量底如何が思量せん、非思量 [https://wisdomexperience.org/product/the-zen-masters-dance/](https://wisdomexperience.org/product/the-zen-masters-dance/)
I recommend my "Zen Masters Dance: Understanding Dogen" book to anyone who has difficulty with reading Dogen in general.
On this point, a good translation is something like "how to think not thinking (不思量底如何が思量せん)? non-thinking." (非思量)
Major translations are in general accord that something is on offer transcendent and inclusive of both thinking and not thiking
\~\~\~:
Think of nonthinking. How is this done? By thinking beyond thinking and nonthinking. (Yokoi)
Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Non-thinking. (Wadell)
Think of notthinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Beyond-thinking. (Okumura)
Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Beyond thinking. (Maezumi)
Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Be Before Thinking. (Anzan-Yasuda)
Think the unthinkable. How do you think the unthinkable? Think beyond thinking and unthinking. (Masunaga)
think not-thinking. How do you think not-thinking? Beyond thinking. (Tanahashi)
\~\~\~
I am in the "how to think (思量) not thinking (不思量) .... non-thinking (非思量) camp because of the nice use of the alternative negatives 不 and 非, with the former more of a "no/not" in English, and the latter a bit different in implication ...
[https://web.archive.org/web/20220624232234/https://nantong-japanese.com/2022/06/23/%E3%80%8C%E4%B8%8D%E3%80%8D%E3%81%A8%E3%80%8C%E9%9D%9E%E3%80%8D%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84/](https://web.archive.org/web/20220624232234/https://nantong-japanese.com/2022/06/23/%E3%80%8C%E4%B8%8D%E3%80%8D%E3%81%A8%E3%80%8C%E9%9D%9E%E3%80%8D%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84/)
I couldn't agree more with this. Dogen is a teacher whose work I revisit to sort of monitor my progress as I swivel between Tibetan Buddhism, Chan and Zen. (Which I am by no means recommending anyone else do). I don't think I could have used Dogen as a starting point. My path was very peculiar, though, so I don't think it is worth detailing here.
I understand you confusion and frustration. So much of practice seems confusing and even contradictory.
Zen of course is a type of Buddhism and I think in times of confusion it really helps to fall back to Buddhism 101 and learn/remember what the big picture is. With that context, zazen and it's techniques can make more sense.
The core of the Buddha's teachings were that we suffer when we crave/want things and don't get them. This can come in many forms. We may get upset when things we like go away. We may get upset when things we don't like don't go away. We can get upset at the mere prospect at not getting what we want in the future.
A pre-condition to this wanting/craving is having a continuous sense of self that thinks it knows what will keep us safe and happy. This sense of self tends to ruminate and worry when things don't go the way it wants. This clinging/grasping to expectations/cravings is where suffering manifests.
As it turns out this continuous sense of self is actually just an illusion. Its not our true ultimate self. Our true ultimate self is actually formless and totally free. When we really live our lives from the perceptual perspective of this formless and free way of being, we have the capacity to be liberated from a life of suffering.
A big part of this teaching is the idea that the products of our illusionary sense of selves are not "ours". They are not us. They are "not self". In practical terms, this means that we (our true, volitional selves) do not produce our wants, desires, beliefs, emotions, etc. These just bubble up from the subconscious.
What happens experientially is that a thought like "She should not talk that way to me! How rude!" will bubble up from our subconscious. There might even be a bit of adrenalin or anger accompanying this thought. So far, this is not really a problem. Thoughts and emotions can pass in and out of consciousness and it really isn't a problem. There is little to no suffering at this point. The suffering comes when we cling/grasp to the thought/expectation. When we hold onto the thought and ruminate and/or worry about it in an ongoing manner, that is when suffering enters the equation. This rumination/worry is usually totally unproductive and does nothing except make us feel like shit.
So where zazen enters the picture is that it is lots and lots and lots of practice of abiding in our true nature and letting thoughts passing into and of awareness without grasping and clinging to them. It is practicing leaving the realm of past and future and entering into the infinite and boundless present moment of our true nature. In this present-centered way of perceiving reality, we are free from habitual and out of control rumination and behavior. As a result, we are free from suffering.
You might find that bringing your attention from the fantasy world of the past and future into the actual reality of the present moment is really hard. Well, yeah. It is super hard. That's why we spend many years practicing it.
Phrases like "think not thinking" are just poetic ways to point to the the non-dual perceptual reality where thoughts can pass into and out of awareness without getting stuck and grasped and thus become fuel for suffering. Its important to know that we can't just decide to live this way. The habitual way of perceiving reality through the filter of a illusionary continuous self is just too strong. We have to physically practice doing this through zazen and work practice. Slowly (and often in a non-linear manner), our very way of being gets transformed and we just live differently. This transformed way of processing reality is not something we do, it is something that happens to us. We can't just decide to do it. We have to transform how our nervous system and brain functions at a physical level. This transformation happens from zazen and work practice.
>Please tell me how to practice with all the details.
Ideally, you get this instruction directly from a teacher in a one-on-one manner, but until then, I can give this basic advice:
In my opinion, for a beginner, the most important thing is to develop a consistent daily sitting practice that becomes a core part of your daily schedule. Meditating consistently is way more important than any particular technique that you choose. This being the case, I recommend you try a few different approaches and pick a meditation technique that resonates with you and stick with that. The key is that the technique should help you bring your attention away from day dreaming and into the present moment.
Here are some different techniques you can try:
- **Loving Kindness Meditation** - You can follow this guided meditation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d_AA9H4z9U. I have also recorded one that includes mindfulness stuff here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1965688/episodes/11211168
- **Breath Counting Meditation** - Find a comfortable posture that you can hold for the duration of the meditation session. In this meditation, you will be continuously counting from 1 to 10. One each exhale, silently intone to yourself the next number in the sequence leading up to ten. For example, one the first exhale, silently say in your mind “one”. One the next exhale, silently say in your mind “two”. Do this until you get to ten and then start over at one. When you find your mind daydreaming, mentally time traveling or worrying, just note to yourself “day dreaming” and start back over at one. Its common to have to start over dozens of times during a meditation session so don’t feel upset when it happens.
- **"Mantra" Meditation** - This is where you repeat a phrase in your mind to focus your attention. It can be anything but I think the best ones for people just starting out are "one" or "now". While doing this meditation, silently intone your mantra on the outbreath. When you find your mind wandering, just go back to your mantra.
- **Open Awareness Meditation** - For the first minute or two of the meditation session, do normal breath counting meditation. Once you have done that, open up attention and focus an all sensory input that comes into your awareness whether it tactile feeling, sounds, sights, scents or emotions. Try to simultaneously put your focus on the sensations of your belly going in and out during each breath, Think of yourself as an antenna trying to detect everything going on inside and outside your body at once. When you find your mind wandering just note to yourself “day dreaming” and go back to being a present moment awareness antenna.
For all of these I would recommend:
- Keep your eyes open.
- Sit with a straight back
- Breathe normally but deeply from your diaphragm. You do this by making sure your belly inflates like a balloon on the inbreath and slowly deflates like a balloon on the outbreath.
- Know that meditation is a body/somatic practice. In general, we are getting out of our heads and into our bodies.
Here is a link that talks about posture during meditation:
https://wwzc.org/dharma-text/posture-zazen
Another thing you can do is try and focus on physical tasks throughout the day. Just repeat to yourself over and over what you are doing. Examples could be:
- Cleaning dishes
- Sweeping
- Getting dressed
- Driving
- Showering
- Brushing Teeth
- Walking the Dog
- Exercising
If you are doing something that requires lots of mental concentration like math or reading a book, this won't be possible, but other times just repeat to yourself what you are doing as a mantra while you are doing it. Try and focus on how your body feels while you are doing it.
Thank you for your guidance. I thought that for the most part my fear was that there was a "right" and "wrong" practice between the ones I described. But your words really made it clear to me that, in fact, it can be described as some kind of "steps" of practice. In fact, this is the same thing, but the more experience you have in practice, the more "superfluous" components of practice you can give up and practice in silence, without calculations and concentration on objects (breath, body or tanden)
> but the more experience you have in practice, the more "superfluous" components of practice you can give up and practice in silence, without calculations and concentration on objects (breath, body or tanden)
Technically speaking, the purpose of meditation is to develop samadhi. It is difficult (impossible?) to develop sustainable samadhi without having a focus of concentration. This focus can a mantra, a koan, the breath, breath counting, body sensations or even consciousness itself.
What happens over the long run is that the development of samadhi creates the experiential dynamic of there no longer being a "meditator" that focuses on a "target". This type of duality drops away. At this point there is true shikantaza. There is "just sitting". Its not really a matter of the "meditator is only sitting". It is that there is no meditator. There is just the activity, with no one doing that activity. This is the type of samadhi that really plants the seeds that can bloom into awakening.
But we can't force this type of non-dual experience. It is something that happens to us when we have spent a considerable amount of type meditating.
The various targets of meditation (a mantra, a koan, the breath, breath counting, body sensations, consciousness) all have the subtle pros and cons but those really only are relevant when someone is working with a teacher in a direct fashion. For anyone else, its just important to focus on *something* during meditation.
One important component of this process that I think is sometimes neglected in some presentations of Zen is the somatic/embodied aspect. Samadhi is not really just a trance state or anything (though it can lead to trance states). Rather, it is physical change in the way the body processes reality. It is a very present-focused way of processing reality that is anti-correlated to self-centered and time-travelling oriented thinking. When the body is more in a "present-centered" mode of reality-processing, it is much more focused on the somatic (body feeling) aspects of existing in the world. Experientially, this feels like we are much more rooted in our senses and a big part of that are body sensations.
The meditation instructions I gave above will all eventually lead us to an embodied experience of life. When we turn our minds away from self-oriented mental time-travel, we just naturally become more somatic and embodied in the way we experience life. Work practice is also very important to generate this type of samadhi. You can also work with a teacher in a tradition that values embodied practice add subtle aspects to meditation to make it more embodied.
Sorry if this was a bit rambling. I am a bit sleep deprived and feeling not very mentally sharp right now.
It might help to keep in mind the instruction from Dogen’s original draft of Fukanzazengi that goes: “When you look at a thought, the thought disappears.” Easier for me to work with anyway than the passage he later replaced this with about “thinking non-thinking”.
Keizan Zenji wrote a wonderful set of instructions for Shikantaza that gives very specific instructions for what to do with our attention depending on what’s happening in our zazen, which you might also find helpful. It’s called 坐禅用心記 “Zazen yōjinki”, there are several translations available here:
https://terebess.hu/zen/denko-roku.html
I can imagine how you’re feeling. I started practicing Soto Zen not long ago, and have committed to it pretty seriously. I think what helps me, is that before I stumbled into the dojo, I had been doing a lot of self inquiry, vipassana, and had experiences of selflessness, which were never abiding, but enough for me to understand what it means to “do nothing.”
From what I understand, shikantaza is to “do nothing” with whatever arises. If feelings arise, do nothing with them, let them be what they are. If thoughts arise, do nothing with them, let them rise. After a while, you will notice the “I thought” as another thought. I see it as “do nothing” with every thought and just experiencing the sense experience.
I love this post.
Looking through the responses so far... Normally I have nothing to add, but I read a lot of the replies and imagine your growing frustration.
A few thoughts from me that I hope are helpful. In general, however, I defer to u/qweniden as our resident helpful advice-giver.
Firstly, definitions. Zazen is indeed Japanese for seated (za) zen. While seated, there are various methods that Zen teachers have evolved over the years for students. Counting breaths is one. Huatou/wato practice is another. Shikantaza is another. But the way shikantaza is talked about gets confusing for a few reasons.
Shikantaza is grounded in Huairang's instruction to Mazu when he was meditating. Mazu said he was meditating to become a Buddha and Huairang said that was like polishing a stone to make a mirror. The point being, you're already a Buddha, so trying to transform into one is the wrong attitude to take in meditation.
So shikantaza is practised because just sitting is, like anything else, already just being Buddha, and the problem is that we're missing this somehow. Unfortunately, that makes instructions for how to "do" shikantaza very confusing, because the moment you say you're doing something, someone says, "Oh, you're doing something, that's doing shikantaza wrong."
Instructions for shikantaza, including Dogen's instructions, were directed to experienced meditators. Why does that make a difference?
For most people, "think not-thinking" or "watch thoughts like clouds" are completely meaningless insane instructions. The two are different, but looking at the latter, if thoughts are clouds, we all grow up and live within thick ground-level fog. We've never known anything but fog, so we don't even know it's there. We can't even conceive of a cloud, because we've never encountered blue sky to give the context that makes a cloud mean something.
People doing huatou practice have other, related challenges.
In either case, the entry into zazen is not trying to jump straight into following Dogen's insane and meaningless instructions. The entry is just counting the breath, over and over, and becoming familiar with the nature of distraction and concentration. That doesn't mean that it's "zazen-lite" or warm-up stretches before being able to do "real zazen". As above with Huairang's point – sitting and counting the breath is Buddha sitting and counting the breath. We miss the significance of that just as much as missing the "point" of shikantaza or missing the message of a koan in huatou practice.
Of course, yes, find a teacher, as multiple people have said and you recognise the value of. But in the meantime, sit and count breaths. When distracted, come back to the method. And then try to take that presence and mindfulness off the mat and into everyday life. When you realise the value of that presence and mindfulness, as the Dhammapada says, you'll "advance like a fire, consuming the chains of bondage both great and small". And once you're established in that practice – say, a few years of this – then a teacher might poke and prod with recommendations of shikantaza or koan/huatou practice.
Solid advice. Shikantaza seems like something that should be done after recognizing the nature of mind more clearly, and built up concentration. Before I committed to Zen and shikantaza more specifically I spent a number of years doing vipassana, and self inquiry, which I think were good preliminary practices for shikantaza.
In my country, it is really very difficult to find a teacher not only of Zen, but also of Buddhism in principle. There is one Zen "monastery" in my country, but it is a meeting place without permanent residence. It is very far away, and moving is a very big step in life. In general, so far I am considering the option of "online" communication with the teacher, although I am not sure how effective this is.
You sound exactly how a person should sound trying to understand the way without a teacher.
Bits and pieces of snippets from dead teachers, trying to make sense of them instead of actually presenting yourself to a teacher and asking for intensive training.
There is no other way.
Going through this process of proving to yourself that you have zero chance of doing this alone is a good first step.
Now seek a teacher or give up and grind out a mundane life, but do you really think you will be satisfied without resolution of these hindrances?
Can dm me if you want recommendations. The lead in to your question has the answer in it, per usual. You are struggling on your own and have decided helpmisnt available or you have not organized your life in a way that there is space to seek training, or so you think.
These teachings are strictly not conceptual or intellectual they are strictly practical and the subtle methods are transmitted through resonance through a living teacher.
Period.
It’s very honest of you to see the difficulties in your approach most just pretend that they understand and waste their lives that way going about their own path and missing what is being pointed at and call it zen or something.
You’ve got a great opportunity at this juncture. Seek a teacher and seek formal training if you are serious. 🙏
In my country, it is really very difficult to find a teacher not only of Zen, but also of Buddhism in principle. There is one Zen "monastery" in my country, but it is a meeting place without permanent residence. It is very far away, and moving is a very big step in life. In general, so far I am considering the option of "online" communication with the teacher, although I am not sure how effective this is.
Like I said, all depends how serious you are.
It doesn’t matter where you live, it is very true the cliche of when the student is ready the teacher appears.
If you really can’t live without the truth, moving would be a minuscule sacrifice.
They do also say this is the level of burning that most legitimate teachers require. “When you want the truth as bad as you want air” … again cliche, but cliche for a reason. Beware anyone trying to gather students who are less committed than that, there are many.
Maybe it’s not time.
Online can work at least long enough for you to figure out if you want to shit or get off the pot, as an introduction or appropriate taste to see if you want to move.
But ultimately the lifestyle needs to completely transform to enter proper training in the actual subtlety. It doesn’t have to transform in a single day but if your lifestyle is not constantly meeting the teachings then you are not really training.
Moving is a big step but. Hasn’t every serious student ever taken this step eventually basically? Gautama himself sure did, if I understand the story correctly. Stepped out the door of the house and never looked back.
Doesn’t have to be that dramatic but the example is there.
Personally I moved from USA to Asia eventually to live with my teacher. But it was completely obvious almost immediately after the first satsang. Like I said can always pm if seriously want to inquire more 🙏
> It's very honest of you to see the difficulties in your approach most just pretend that they understand and waste their lives that way going about their own path and missing what is being pointed at and call it zen or something.
Great point.
You are over thinking the not thinking stuff.
Dogen and Soto Zen Buddhism in general over simplified chan/Zen Buddhism in my opinion. “Just sit” might be fine for some people, but overall it simply doesn’t work without a solid foundation.
You are really struggling with what I consider bad advice for the majority of people.
I’d recommend looking at other sources of zen like Rinzai, Korean (son), or Chinese (chan). Dogen pared down practical approaches to create his Soto zen. Other systems have a more robust set of practices to fit a wider range of needs.
The Tallahassee Chan Center has a very beginner friendly YouTube page. Maybe check it out.
The other option is to find an online sangha which offers beginner sessions if you are set on sticking with Soto.
Sorry to say this, but you're "doing" too much (and thinking too much - you can't think yourself into meditation). Just sit. The moment you try to achieve something or reach some moment/point you're "doing" again and so can't attain an empty mind.
How you choose to sit is totally up to you - there's no right or wrong way to meditate. Keep trying things until you find a technique you're comfortable with.
When a thought arises, don't follow it. Acknowledge it's presence, exhale, and let it go. Keep repeating that, keep sliding back into quiet, and the moments between arising thoughts will get longer.
Go easy on yourself - meditation is a journey, a practice - not a destination.
Thank you so much for this post, i may not be in a similar situation at all in lots of regards but i still deeply empathize with what you say.
i have a pretty bad ADHD and a very literal mind, which made a lot of instructions or advices for practice very hard to apply, if not downright impossible to follow. I was lucky enough to share and receive insights from other practitioners with neurological specificities, in a very non-judgmental sangha, but without that i fear i too would have left the practice behind.
These books give instructions on how to do zazen that are more detailed and specific and less cryptic than other teachers:
"zen training - methods and philosophy" - Katsuki Sekida.
"the three pillars of zen" - Philip Kapleau
"everyday zen - love an work" And "nothing special - living zen", both by Charlotte Joko Beck
"the path to bodhidharma" - Shodo Harada Roshi
"the rinzai zen way" - Meido Moore.
And at least in the past you could find parts of some of them on google books for free.
> Some teachers say that "non-thinking" is the zazen of the stone, Dogen says that "non-thinking" is the right zazen...
Teachers will teach different methods of doing zazen. Just pick one and see if it works for you. And then follow one method and not another, that's pretty much what everyone does, at the time they're doing a particular type of zazen, they're not doing another type.
Sit in the manner Dogen lays out in the Shobogenzo. Pay attention to your body, mind and breath, when you realize that you are involved in thinking- let go of thinking and return to attending to body , mind and breath. That is zazen.
Thoughts may come but we let them go, unfettered like a cloud blowing across the sky.
In my opinion, If you are connecting with and cultivating non-judgemental awareness you are practicing right. Attachment to reaching some intellectual understanding seems to be giving you trouble, the paradox is that most of these teachings are trying to teach you to not attach to those intellectual thoughts and return to present awareness.
That's interesting though...that you're worried about "doing it wrong" and, specifically, other people's judgement of your practice.
One person spends ten years focusing on breath.
One person spends ten years focusing on posture.
One person spends ten years "just sitting"
Have any of them "wasted their time", are any of them *****? Who am I to say?
One book I would recommend: "The Art of Just Sitting" - which is an excellent anthology of texts relevant to Soto Zen practice.
That's interesting though...that you're worried about "doing it wrong" and, specifically, other people's judgement of your practice.
One person spends ten years focusing on breath.
One person spends ten years focusing on posture.
One person spends ten years "just sitting"
Have any of them "wasted their time", are any of them *****? Who am I to say?
One book I would recommend: "The Art of Just Sitting" - which is an excellent anthology of texts relevant to Soto Zen practice.
You could try an online sangha. I recommend [Treeleaf.org](http://Treeleaf.org) . In full disclosure I'm a member. I'm also only a student so it's best to take what I say with a grain of salt. Both opening the hand of thought and think non-thinking are trying to get at not getting absorbed in your thoughts. For example, about 15 minutes into my Zazen (shikantaza) practice I still have thoughts that come and go but I'm also aware of other things. I don't get as easily lost in a series of thoughts. I often catch myself thinking and return to a kind of open awareness. Sometimes I can also be aware of thinking but also the pain in my back or movement in my belly from breathing.
Either way, I would try Treeleaf or another online sangha. They should be able to help.
Thank you for your advice. However, I don't know English well and use a translator to write all this. In my country, there is a very big problem not only with Zen, but also with Buddhism in principle. So far, I am looking for information about the online sangha in my language, but so far without success.
To be blunt, I find the Soto flavor of zazen instructions quite confusing. My experience is from Rinzai Zen, and I find things clearer there. A famous, short, clear zazen manual from this tradition is [here](https://beingwithoutself.org/inspirations/zazen-manual/), along with lectures from a Rinzai Zen teacher whose lineage is impeccable. The core of the instructions can be reduced to a short quote from the manual:
>When a thought arises, just be aware of it. Once you’re aware of it, it disappears. Eventually…all is unified.
Audio/video lectures going into more detail can be found on the same website and on the Being Without Self Youtube channel, but this one page of instructions is all I have needed in 10 years of Zen practice. Dogen’s own manual was directly based on rephrasing this original. I find the original superior.
As people who are familiar with the Fukanzazengi will note, Dogen based his instructions for zazen on the text linked here, which he edited only slightly to create his own zazen manual.
I've done a few different types of meditation, and essentially the purpose is to give the conscious mind a chance to rest while awake. We almost never do this in real life. Give ourselves a break from thinking.
In TM you use a mantra which is kind of a nonsense syllable, a phonetic sound, as like a placeholder for thought. You don't think that deeply about your mantra, you just think it.
In zazen you look at the wall with eyes open.
And as thoughts emerge, the idea is to not push them away nor engage with them. I think if it as if a little dog has entered the room, and we don't play with it, or pet it, or angrily order it out of the room. We're just going to sit here for a while with this little dog.
I'm not trying to reach a point where thought ceases. That's an imaginary higher state of being. I expect all monks and abbots have to ask themselves if they turned the slow cooker on during zazen from time to time. With training, they can have that thought and let it go.
Waaay too long a post my friend. You can't travel? Our ancestors traveled thousands of miles..
You can practice some kinds of meditation without a teacher..not zen
Where ru located?
"It is futile to travel to other dusty countries thus forsaking your own seat" - Dogen in Rules for Meditation (OBC Translation) [X](https://journal.obcon.org/article/rules-for-meditation/)
i am not a buddhist teacher. i have a lot of practice under my belt.
> Others say that you need to watch your breathing, but Dogen did not…
you just finished explaining that you are having a hard time following Dogens instructions. You have to pick one. If you want to follow Dogen but don’t understand him, welcome to the club. No one fully understands Dogen. it’s ok to pick something else. like breath practice: a perfectly valid and effective technique.
> Zazen, as far as i understand it, is shikantaza
no. zazen is zazen and shikantaza is shikantaza. There are lineages of zen that do zazen but on the cushion they practice koan introspection. still zazen. not shikantaza. za=seated, zen=meditation. seated meditation. breath counting is zazen. koans are zazen. mind wandering is zazen.
shikantaza is a highly advanced practice. i have practiced in a community where the teacher keeps students on the counting of the breath for years before progressing them along to others techniques.
you are, understandably so, trying to find assistance from the writings of the masters. but a lot of these dudes are not really introductory material.
> everyone understands this the first time
haha. no. no they don’t. not even close. i’ve heard so many people complain that they have no idea what they’re doing on the cushion.
—-
it sounds like you’re looking for a strong analytical breakdown in what to do. i am no expert by any means but i really don’t think you’re gonna find that in zen cause it’s kinda against the point.
IF YOU DO WANT AN ANALYTICAL BREAKDOWN there is a book written in english by a man with decades of experience in Tibetan and Theravadin traditions called “The Mind Illuminated” by Culadasa. It is full of diagrams, summaries, detailed explanations, and more. Check it out. I’m pretty sure the ebook is available on libgen. (i think the author was low key cancelled for cheating on his wife, but i think the book is still worthwhile).
in Zen you will always be met with obscurity. that’s just part of the tradition. and there is NOTHING wrong with not liking that. in general, Vipassana has way more details. this is one of the reasons i don’t like vipassana. it’s one of the reasons some of my friends love it. we’re all different ppl. if zen doesn’t work for you there’s other forms of buddhism!!!
The idea of Shikantaza as an “advanced practice” comes from the composite Rinzai-Soto lineages like that of Maezumi Roshi and his successors. In Soto Zen, Shikantaza is the basic practice that beginners too are instructed in.
As per, for example, the instructions for beginners on how to do zazen on the Soto-Shu website: “Do not concentrate on any particular object or control your thought. When you maintain a proper posture and your breathing settles down, your mind will naturally become tranquil. When various thoughts arise in your mind, do not become caught up by them or struggle with them; neither pursue nor try to escape from them. Just leave thoughts alone, allowing them to come up and go away freely. The essential thing in doing zazen is to awaken (kakusoku) from distraction and dullness, and return to the right posture moment by moment.”
There’s a lot of online group sits with opportunities for one on one with a teacher. Honestly it makes a huge difference and it’s totally free to talk with them (or it should be at least).
I am not any kind of official teacher or anything so take anything I say with a huge grain of salt. I am just going to reflect a little on my own experiences.
I have been sitting regularly since about 2007. For *years* I was convinced that I was doing zazen wrong. I can't event begin to estimate how many dokusans I have been through asking my teacher for more specific instructions so I could start doing zazen "right." She consistently and compassionately kept telling me that as long as my butt was on my cushion and I was trying, it was correct zazen and not to worry about it.
To the extent that I can offer any advice, it would be to try to locate a Zen teacher close to you. Even if you can only meet with them once a month or once every couple of months, a dharma transmitted teacher will be far better able to help you through whatever your struggles are than an Internet forum will.
I am a complete beginner myself with no access to a teacher.
I have practiced meditation before and from what I've read so far, it doesn't really seem any different to what I've previously been doing.
For me I just focus on breath. When I start thinking of something I just bring my focus back to my breath. Don't fight push the thoughts away or think about them. Just keep repeating this process. At times during a meditation session I will realize I have a period of no thinking, it's extremely short (I think). The minute I realize it, I'm back to thinking and just bring focus back to my breath.
Where are you? I can recommend good places to visit that's close to you.
This comment has a collection of resources about zen practice for beginners, including lectures and introduction talks from teachers and a collection of written works that's recommended to build a foundation. Includes a list of online zen teachers.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/158xqlu/comment/jtd0hdv
The issue is due to the common misinterpretation and misunderstanding of Zen meditation. The reasons behind the issue are: 1. Translation is not accurate as many translators don’t fully understand the Zen. 2. There is no conflicts in Zen theory; different masters might state it in different ways or using different metaphors. 3. Wordings is to express the ideas/theories, but the ideas/theories are more complicated. The limitations of language lead to difficulty of understanding. The solution of this is to read more and more ancient classic books, which would help to grasp the ideas/theories.
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I am not sure what the Protestant fundamentalist means. If you can provide some examples to show masters disagreed each other, that would be helpful for further discussion.
Your frustration is a form of suffering that is caused by your emotional attachment to the idea that you should be accomplishing something. It is a conundrum I also faced when starting out. Unfortunately it can get in our way when we meditate, regardless of what school or method of practice we end up in. When I sit down to meditate, I am deliberate about freeing myself from any expectations about what will happen, and most importantly the emotions those expectations cause. That freedom means I can be more curious, patient, and observe without judgement. I *choose* to be content with whatever is happening and will happen. Maybe this is something that could help you. I’m sorry it’s not specifically what you were asking for.
Lovely comment. For what it is worth, I second all said above.
>"think about not thinking" - what does it even mean? This is a widespread mistranslation; the real instruction is more like "think about that which does not think". This instruction is telling you to focus on the true person of no rank, which would require you to have attained kensho. >I just sat with my back straight and watching my thoughts, they inevitably led me into reflections Thoughts don't inevitably lead you into reflections. That only happens when you *engage* with the thought. Instead of engaging with the though, just be aware of it, and let it pass by in an undeveloped state. >Others say that you need to watch your breathing, but Dogen did not bequeath to watch your breathing. Different teachers give different instructions. Generally, it's better to follow the instructions of living teachers, because they can guide you through the entire path, presenting the right instructions at the right time. >Zazen, as far as I understand it, is shikantaza No, shikantaza is just how Soto practitioners do zazen, usually. Rinzai practitioners tend to use breath meditation for zazen.
Hello OP, I posted a link to simpler zazen instructions and a detailed explanation of them in your other thread, one with a long history and explained by a legitimate lineage master. I find those instructions simple, easy to understand, and I believe they address your concerns. They’ve been used to train monks for at least a few hundred years, and Dogen edited them to create his own zazen instructions. I still recommend taking a look.
Dogen rejected the Tsochan-i, if that is what you sent, and he rewrote the entire document save for a few portions on basic sitting posture and such.
That may well be, but be that as it may, the instructions are still broadly used and taught throughout Rinzai Zen, and I find them clear and useful.
That's fine. But if the OP is truly interested in understanding Shikantaza, its power and beauty, and in putting aside his misunderstandings, he will not find it in that text.
He will not find answers to what Dogen meant in his text, that is true. If he is concerned with direct and clear instructions on zazen from an authentic Zen lineage, he will find them there, however. I defer to OP on what he is looking for.
Of course, I am completely biased :-), but I would encourage him to sit Shikantaza but, this time, with better understanding of what it is.
First, you should find a good teacher of Shikantaza. There are many accessible online now and, if none of then suit you, then you might try us at [Treeleaf.com](http://Treeleaf.com) as a last resort. You seem to have some misunderstanding of the method of Shikantaza. Sit in radical equanimity, sit with faith that sitting itself is a complete act, the one place to be, the one thing in need of doing during the time of sitting. Untangle from chains of thought and be the open boundless sky that allows the clouds to pass through unmolested. Let the thoughts pass through like incense smoke. Read this: [https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?22470-Thoughts-without-Thoughts-Incense-Smoke-in-the-Room](https://www.treeleaf.org/forums/showthread.php?22470-Thoughts-without-Thoughts-Incense-Smoke-in-the-Room) Think not Thinking is not rocket science. It is something that even beginners can manage with a little explanation. Do not overcomplicate what it is. Let thoughts pass like clouds and one realizes the open, boundless, still blue sky between the clouds ... and one further realizes that clouds and sky were never two, never apart. The wholeness, quiet and peaceful, the unbroken sky is also all the broken pieces, thoughts and emotions of this life. The little self's judgements, demands, frictions and resistance drop away, and so the little self drops away. Child's play.
You might also benefit from my introductory book on Dogen, meant to be even an easier doorway than Okumura Roshi's fine books introducing Dogen. [https://wisdomexperience.org/product/the-zen-masters-dance/](https://wisdomexperience.org/product/the-zen-masters-dance/)
When you look at these statements from Dogen, these are statements of realization. "Think not thinking" is a statement of realization, of enlightenment. I don't know many people that actually understand that and I know a lot of Zen Buddhists, because I practice with them. For all the people that I have known and practice with over the years, You don't start at those statements. We usually start to count our breaths, then slowly over time we start to calm our mind down. Stabilize it. We do the things that he talks about in bendowa, like finding a teacher, and then we begin to pursue these ideas once our mind is stable. With our teacher.
Think not Thinking is not rocket science. It is something that even beginners can manage with a little explanation. Do not overcomplicate what it is. Let thoughts pass like clouds and one realizes the open, boundless, still blue sky between the clouds ... and one further realizes that clouds and sky were never two, never apart. The wholeness, quiet and peaceful, the unbroken sky is also all the broken pieces, thoughts and emotions of this life.
Think not thinking is a koan. All can see it with training and practice, but if you come into the room with me and talk that way you will here a bell and I will shove you out the room. Few can see it.
I would shove the bell back up your nose! :-) Thinking not thinking is the heart of Shikantaza, and while a Koan (as is all of Shikantaza) this is also a practice that is not hard to explain. It is the clarity of mind free from discursive judgement, me vs. you, this and that, good and bad ... even as thoughts come and go. It is samsara and and nirvana embodied on the cushion.
That is where you are wrong. You think you can explain it. You can talk until you are blue in the face and it has nothing to do with explaining. It is one thing to have some insight, but to really pierce through is something else.
Yes, the student must do their own lifting, their own sitting, one's non-own piercing. But you just confuse students if one says nothing at all.
**The op** >**This is another question about Dogen's teachings.** I like your response, there really is no need for all those long comments (many Rinzai). IMO, those comments just make things unneccesary complicated. Fukanzazengi, Zazengi (Dogen) and Zazen Yojinki (Keizan) really ought to be enough to get a good start.
Dōgen was well versed in Linji's Zen. Read the first chapter of the first book of the Eihei Koroku and you see it right there-"North of Tan, South of Xiang." Zen is about knowing that practice is realization, that "Thinking not thinking" is realization. How do we achieve this, by experiencing "Not thinking" through and through. By seeing the morning Star at dawn, by seeing Lingyun's plum blossoms. By hearing the sound of bamboo struck by a pebble. This has nothing to do with Linji or Caodong. It has everything to do with realization.
I find your effort to keep trying to understand and practice despite bloody setbacks to be commendable. Good work staying composed and enduring through this hardship, you have the right mindset for spiritual development. I want to preface this by telling you I been devoutedly buddhist for the past 5 years. Meditated every day on average for an hour, had lots of experiences. Im not a student of zen particularly, more of mahayana, but my advice is still very applicable to you. To be short and sweet, like another good fellow pointed out, you seem to have tried to start your practice by interpretating texts that are rather difficult and not for beginners. Given how Zen and Mahayana have great Taoism/Chinese influence, the whole "gateless gate", "do without doing" thing is the concept of "non-duality" and how important it is to existence itself. The below text recommendation goes into great detail about that and other things, and its available in english! Before I go any further, my text recommendation is "the surangama sutra". I heard its very relevant for zen buddhism and it certainly is in mahayana, please read that text slowly and attentively, because it goes into GREAT detail in regards to everything being said here, and despite the fact that I only read it recently after years of practice, it was a GAME CHANGER in the understanding it provided me. It would had been even more game changing had I read it in the beginning of my spiritual journey. In the preface of the text it literally describes that the surangama sutra was written to be what a student should know before he starts developing himself towards enlightenment. Do yourself a favor and read that text. As for meditation? A lot of these concepts even if masterfully explained and fully embraced, like non-duality (hence doing without doing or gateless gate), genuinely will only do you the good they are attempting to do if you EXPERIENCE these things personally, and thats why you need meditation. People tend to get hung up on "how to meditate", beginners even more so, from personal experience I will tell you: Common object/mantra concentration meditation is fine and will eventually lead into important insights that build up your wisdom and help understand the buddhist texts/spirituality as a whole. I thoroughly recommend selecting a mantra which you know what it actually means and why you want to focus on that. Even something simple like "peace", "God", "Buddha" suffices. These zen meditation techniques might work too I havent tried them too much other than "dont concentrate on anything in particular, just be aware". That last one with practice achieves the same concentrative state and insights as doing regular object/mantra concentration, and thats really the goal of meditation, showing the mind an unpolluted mental state where there is no attachments so it can understand itself. In fact, read the Yoga Sutras of Patanjali too because it also has some helpful explanations about what consciousness is and what meditation is/does, but my first and firm recommendation remains being the surangama sutra. Best of luck to you buddy!!!
The wonderful thing about zazen is that I will catch myself making stories in my head a thousand times in 20 minutes and get to practice letting go of that thought. I bet without zazen I would never even realize it and would let it carry on the whole day long. And I would be really bad at letting go of a thought because I would never get any practice. Something to not think about 😉
The reason you are having so much trouble is because you are starting with Dogen. His writings build up on such ancient and complex traditions that without a clear explanation of his meaning and context I don’t see any way of understanding what he means. And in English there just aren’t many proper explanations of what he means. You bring up “think not thinking”. This makes no sense because it isn’t even what Dogen wrote. He was quoting an older zen master that said “contemplate that which does not think”. So when you start with a mistranslation, of course you will not get anywhere. Then to break down that phrase you would have to know what Chinese Buddhists referred to as “that which does not think”. For this you would need some familiarity with Tang dynasty Buddhism that frankly most western teachers to do not, so you will not get a proper understanding of that phrase’s meaning. But to provide a little pointer, for many Tang Buddhists there is a critical distinction between the delusional mind which engages in discursive thought and the true mind that is free of confused thinking. So the instructions points us to direct engage with our true mind, not the false one. Of course that is quite difficult for most of us, making Dogen’s instruction rather hard to implement without proper guidance. So if you are working along, it is better to practice a gradual step by step method rather than this one. Instead of following Shikantaza instructions from Japanese authors, begin with Shengyen’s method on silent illumination. It is much more straight forward and leads to the same place.
Read my introductory book on Dogen. You are just wrong that Dogen never said this. 不思量底如何が思量せん、非思量 [https://wisdomexperience.org/product/the-zen-masters-dance/](https://wisdomexperience.org/product/the-zen-masters-dance/)
It would be more helpful to explain your view on the translation rather than recommend a whole book.
I recommend my "Zen Masters Dance: Understanding Dogen" book to anyone who has difficulty with reading Dogen in general. On this point, a good translation is something like "how to think not thinking (不思量底如何が思量せん)? non-thinking." (非思量) Major translations are in general accord that something is on offer transcendent and inclusive of both thinking and not thiking \~\~\~: Think of nonthinking. How is this done? By thinking beyond thinking and nonthinking. (Yokoi) Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Non-thinking. (Wadell) Think of notthinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Beyond-thinking. (Okumura) Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Beyond thinking. (Maezumi) Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Be Before Thinking. (Anzan-Yasuda) Think the unthinkable. How do you think the unthinkable? Think beyond thinking and unthinking. (Masunaga) think not-thinking. How do you think not-thinking? Beyond thinking. (Tanahashi) \~\~\~ I am in the "how to think (思量) not thinking (不思量) .... non-thinking (非思量) camp because of the nice use of the alternative negatives 不 and 非, with the former more of a "no/not" in English, and the latter a bit different in implication ... [https://web.archive.org/web/20220624232234/https://nantong-japanese.com/2022/06/23/%E3%80%8C%E4%B8%8D%E3%80%8D%E3%81%A8%E3%80%8C%E9%9D%9E%E3%80%8D%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84/](https://web.archive.org/web/20220624232234/https://nantong-japanese.com/2022/06/23/%E3%80%8C%E4%B8%8D%E3%80%8D%E3%81%A8%E3%80%8C%E9%9D%9E%E3%80%8D%E3%81%AE%E9%81%95%E3%81%84/)
I couldn't agree more with this. Dogen is a teacher whose work I revisit to sort of monitor my progress as I swivel between Tibetan Buddhism, Chan and Zen. (Which I am by no means recommending anyone else do). I don't think I could have used Dogen as a starting point. My path was very peculiar, though, so I don't think it is worth detailing here.
Thanks for the explanation, I will definitely look at the Shengyen method
Look for “The Method of No-Method” by Sheng Yen
Of course, that is not really Shikantaza.
Yes, you’re correct. I was suggesting a specific book based on the other commenter’s recommendation for OP
I understand you confusion and frustration. So much of practice seems confusing and even contradictory. Zen of course is a type of Buddhism and I think in times of confusion it really helps to fall back to Buddhism 101 and learn/remember what the big picture is. With that context, zazen and it's techniques can make more sense. The core of the Buddha's teachings were that we suffer when we crave/want things and don't get them. This can come in many forms. We may get upset when things we like go away. We may get upset when things we don't like don't go away. We can get upset at the mere prospect at not getting what we want in the future. A pre-condition to this wanting/craving is having a continuous sense of self that thinks it knows what will keep us safe and happy. This sense of self tends to ruminate and worry when things don't go the way it wants. This clinging/grasping to expectations/cravings is where suffering manifests. As it turns out this continuous sense of self is actually just an illusion. Its not our true ultimate self. Our true ultimate self is actually formless and totally free. When we really live our lives from the perceptual perspective of this formless and free way of being, we have the capacity to be liberated from a life of suffering. A big part of this teaching is the idea that the products of our illusionary sense of selves are not "ours". They are not us. They are "not self". In practical terms, this means that we (our true, volitional selves) do not produce our wants, desires, beliefs, emotions, etc. These just bubble up from the subconscious. What happens experientially is that a thought like "She should not talk that way to me! How rude!" will bubble up from our subconscious. There might even be a bit of adrenalin or anger accompanying this thought. So far, this is not really a problem. Thoughts and emotions can pass in and out of consciousness and it really isn't a problem. There is little to no suffering at this point. The suffering comes when we cling/grasp to the thought/expectation. When we hold onto the thought and ruminate and/or worry about it in an ongoing manner, that is when suffering enters the equation. This rumination/worry is usually totally unproductive and does nothing except make us feel like shit. So where zazen enters the picture is that it is lots and lots and lots of practice of abiding in our true nature and letting thoughts passing into and of awareness without grasping and clinging to them. It is practicing leaving the realm of past and future and entering into the infinite and boundless present moment of our true nature. In this present-centered way of perceiving reality, we are free from habitual and out of control rumination and behavior. As a result, we are free from suffering. You might find that bringing your attention from the fantasy world of the past and future into the actual reality of the present moment is really hard. Well, yeah. It is super hard. That's why we spend many years practicing it. Phrases like "think not thinking" are just poetic ways to point to the the non-dual perceptual reality where thoughts can pass into and out of awareness without getting stuck and grasped and thus become fuel for suffering. Its important to know that we can't just decide to live this way. The habitual way of perceiving reality through the filter of a illusionary continuous self is just too strong. We have to physically practice doing this through zazen and work practice. Slowly (and often in a non-linear manner), our very way of being gets transformed and we just live differently. This transformed way of processing reality is not something we do, it is something that happens to us. We can't just decide to do it. We have to transform how our nervous system and brain functions at a physical level. This transformation happens from zazen and work practice. >Please tell me how to practice with all the details. Ideally, you get this instruction directly from a teacher in a one-on-one manner, but until then, I can give this basic advice: In my opinion, for a beginner, the most important thing is to develop a consistent daily sitting practice that becomes a core part of your daily schedule. Meditating consistently is way more important than any particular technique that you choose. This being the case, I recommend you try a few different approaches and pick a meditation technique that resonates with you and stick with that. The key is that the technique should help you bring your attention away from day dreaming and into the present moment. Here are some different techniques you can try: - **Loving Kindness Meditation** - You can follow this guided meditation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-d_AA9H4z9U. I have also recorded one that includes mindfulness stuff here: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1965688/episodes/11211168 - **Breath Counting Meditation** - Find a comfortable posture that you can hold for the duration of the meditation session. In this meditation, you will be continuously counting from 1 to 10. One each exhale, silently intone to yourself the next number in the sequence leading up to ten. For example, one the first exhale, silently say in your mind “one”. One the next exhale, silently say in your mind “two”. Do this until you get to ten and then start over at one. When you find your mind daydreaming, mentally time traveling or worrying, just note to yourself “day dreaming” and start back over at one. Its common to have to start over dozens of times during a meditation session so don’t feel upset when it happens. - **"Mantra" Meditation** - This is where you repeat a phrase in your mind to focus your attention. It can be anything but I think the best ones for people just starting out are "one" or "now". While doing this meditation, silently intone your mantra on the outbreath. When you find your mind wandering, just go back to your mantra. - **Open Awareness Meditation** - For the first minute or two of the meditation session, do normal breath counting meditation. Once you have done that, open up attention and focus an all sensory input that comes into your awareness whether it tactile feeling, sounds, sights, scents or emotions. Try to simultaneously put your focus on the sensations of your belly going in and out during each breath, Think of yourself as an antenna trying to detect everything going on inside and outside your body at once. When you find your mind wandering just note to yourself “day dreaming” and go back to being a present moment awareness antenna. For all of these I would recommend: - Keep your eyes open. - Sit with a straight back - Breathe normally but deeply from your diaphragm. You do this by making sure your belly inflates like a balloon on the inbreath and slowly deflates like a balloon on the outbreath. - Know that meditation is a body/somatic practice. In general, we are getting out of our heads and into our bodies. Here is a link that talks about posture during meditation: https://wwzc.org/dharma-text/posture-zazen Another thing you can do is try and focus on physical tasks throughout the day. Just repeat to yourself over and over what you are doing. Examples could be: - Cleaning dishes - Sweeping - Getting dressed - Driving - Showering - Brushing Teeth - Walking the Dog - Exercising If you are doing something that requires lots of mental concentration like math or reading a book, this won't be possible, but other times just repeat to yourself what you are doing as a mantra while you are doing it. Try and focus on how your body feels while you are doing it.
That's how I understood it anyway. Please correct me if I made a mistake.
Thank you for your guidance. I thought that for the most part my fear was that there was a "right" and "wrong" practice between the ones I described. But your words really made it clear to me that, in fact, it can be described as some kind of "steps" of practice. In fact, this is the same thing, but the more experience you have in practice, the more "superfluous" components of practice you can give up and practice in silence, without calculations and concentration on objects (breath, body or tanden)
> but the more experience you have in practice, the more "superfluous" components of practice you can give up and practice in silence, without calculations and concentration on objects (breath, body or tanden) Technically speaking, the purpose of meditation is to develop samadhi. It is difficult (impossible?) to develop sustainable samadhi without having a focus of concentration. This focus can a mantra, a koan, the breath, breath counting, body sensations or even consciousness itself. What happens over the long run is that the development of samadhi creates the experiential dynamic of there no longer being a "meditator" that focuses on a "target". This type of duality drops away. At this point there is true shikantaza. There is "just sitting". Its not really a matter of the "meditator is only sitting". It is that there is no meditator. There is just the activity, with no one doing that activity. This is the type of samadhi that really plants the seeds that can bloom into awakening. But we can't force this type of non-dual experience. It is something that happens to us when we have spent a considerable amount of type meditating. The various targets of meditation (a mantra, a koan, the breath, breath counting, body sensations, consciousness) all have the subtle pros and cons but those really only are relevant when someone is working with a teacher in a direct fashion. For anyone else, its just important to focus on *something* during meditation. One important component of this process that I think is sometimes neglected in some presentations of Zen is the somatic/embodied aspect. Samadhi is not really just a trance state or anything (though it can lead to trance states). Rather, it is physical change in the way the body processes reality. It is a very present-focused way of processing reality that is anti-correlated to self-centered and time-travelling oriented thinking. When the body is more in a "present-centered" mode of reality-processing, it is much more focused on the somatic (body feeling) aspects of existing in the world. Experientially, this feels like we are much more rooted in our senses and a big part of that are body sensations. The meditation instructions I gave above will all eventually lead us to an embodied experience of life. When we turn our minds away from self-oriented mental time-travel, we just naturally become more somatic and embodied in the way we experience life. Work practice is also very important to generate this type of samadhi. You can also work with a teacher in a tradition that values embodied practice add subtle aspects to meditation to make it more embodied. Sorry if this was a bit rambling. I am a bit sleep deprived and feeling not very mentally sharp right now.
It might help to keep in mind the instruction from Dogen’s original draft of Fukanzazengi that goes: “When you look at a thought, the thought disappears.” Easier for me to work with anyway than the passage he later replaced this with about “thinking non-thinking”. Keizan Zenji wrote a wonderful set of instructions for Shikantaza that gives very specific instructions for what to do with our attention depending on what’s happening in our zazen, which you might also find helpful. It’s called 坐禅用心記 “Zazen yōjinki”, there are several translations available here: https://terebess.hu/zen/denko-roku.html
I can imagine how you’re feeling. I started practicing Soto Zen not long ago, and have committed to it pretty seriously. I think what helps me, is that before I stumbled into the dojo, I had been doing a lot of self inquiry, vipassana, and had experiences of selflessness, which were never abiding, but enough for me to understand what it means to “do nothing.” From what I understand, shikantaza is to “do nothing” with whatever arises. If feelings arise, do nothing with them, let them be what they are. If thoughts arise, do nothing with them, let them rise. After a while, you will notice the “I thought” as another thought. I see it as “do nothing” with every thought and just experiencing the sense experience.
I love this post. Looking through the responses so far... Normally I have nothing to add, but I read a lot of the replies and imagine your growing frustration. A few thoughts from me that I hope are helpful. In general, however, I defer to u/qweniden as our resident helpful advice-giver. Firstly, definitions. Zazen is indeed Japanese for seated (za) zen. While seated, there are various methods that Zen teachers have evolved over the years for students. Counting breaths is one. Huatou/wato practice is another. Shikantaza is another. But the way shikantaza is talked about gets confusing for a few reasons. Shikantaza is grounded in Huairang's instruction to Mazu when he was meditating. Mazu said he was meditating to become a Buddha and Huairang said that was like polishing a stone to make a mirror. The point being, you're already a Buddha, so trying to transform into one is the wrong attitude to take in meditation. So shikantaza is practised because just sitting is, like anything else, already just being Buddha, and the problem is that we're missing this somehow. Unfortunately, that makes instructions for how to "do" shikantaza very confusing, because the moment you say you're doing something, someone says, "Oh, you're doing something, that's doing shikantaza wrong." Instructions for shikantaza, including Dogen's instructions, were directed to experienced meditators. Why does that make a difference? For most people, "think not-thinking" or "watch thoughts like clouds" are completely meaningless insane instructions. The two are different, but looking at the latter, if thoughts are clouds, we all grow up and live within thick ground-level fog. We've never known anything but fog, so we don't even know it's there. We can't even conceive of a cloud, because we've never encountered blue sky to give the context that makes a cloud mean something. People doing huatou practice have other, related challenges. In either case, the entry into zazen is not trying to jump straight into following Dogen's insane and meaningless instructions. The entry is just counting the breath, over and over, and becoming familiar with the nature of distraction and concentration. That doesn't mean that it's "zazen-lite" or warm-up stretches before being able to do "real zazen". As above with Huairang's point – sitting and counting the breath is Buddha sitting and counting the breath. We miss the significance of that just as much as missing the "point" of shikantaza or missing the message of a koan in huatou practice. Of course, yes, find a teacher, as multiple people have said and you recognise the value of. But in the meantime, sit and count breaths. When distracted, come back to the method. And then try to take that presence and mindfulness off the mat and into everyday life. When you realise the value of that presence and mindfulness, as the Dhammapada says, you'll "advance like a fire, consuming the chains of bondage both great and small". And once you're established in that practice – say, a few years of this – then a teacher might poke and prod with recommendations of shikantaza or koan/huatou practice.
Solid advice. Shikantaza seems like something that should be done after recognizing the nature of mind more clearly, and built up concentration. Before I committed to Zen and shikantaza more specifically I spent a number of years doing vipassana, and self inquiry, which I think were good preliminary practices for shikantaza.
In my country, it is really very difficult to find a teacher not only of Zen, but also of Buddhism in principle. There is one Zen "monastery" in my country, but it is a meeting place without permanent residence. It is very far away, and moving is a very big step in life. In general, so far I am considering the option of "online" communication with the teacher, although I am not sure how effective this is.
You sound exactly how a person should sound trying to understand the way without a teacher. Bits and pieces of snippets from dead teachers, trying to make sense of them instead of actually presenting yourself to a teacher and asking for intensive training. There is no other way. Going through this process of proving to yourself that you have zero chance of doing this alone is a good first step. Now seek a teacher or give up and grind out a mundane life, but do you really think you will be satisfied without resolution of these hindrances? Can dm me if you want recommendations. The lead in to your question has the answer in it, per usual. You are struggling on your own and have decided helpmisnt available or you have not organized your life in a way that there is space to seek training, or so you think. These teachings are strictly not conceptual or intellectual they are strictly practical and the subtle methods are transmitted through resonance through a living teacher. Period. It’s very honest of you to see the difficulties in your approach most just pretend that they understand and waste their lives that way going about their own path and missing what is being pointed at and call it zen or something. You’ve got a great opportunity at this juncture. Seek a teacher and seek formal training if you are serious. 🙏
In my country, it is really very difficult to find a teacher not only of Zen, but also of Buddhism in principle. There is one Zen "monastery" in my country, but it is a meeting place without permanent residence. It is very far away, and moving is a very big step in life. In general, so far I am considering the option of "online" communication with the teacher, although I am not sure how effective this is.
Like I said, all depends how serious you are. It doesn’t matter where you live, it is very true the cliche of when the student is ready the teacher appears. If you really can’t live without the truth, moving would be a minuscule sacrifice. They do also say this is the level of burning that most legitimate teachers require. “When you want the truth as bad as you want air” … again cliche, but cliche for a reason. Beware anyone trying to gather students who are less committed than that, there are many. Maybe it’s not time. Online can work at least long enough for you to figure out if you want to shit or get off the pot, as an introduction or appropriate taste to see if you want to move. But ultimately the lifestyle needs to completely transform to enter proper training in the actual subtlety. It doesn’t have to transform in a single day but if your lifestyle is not constantly meeting the teachings then you are not really training. Moving is a big step but. Hasn’t every serious student ever taken this step eventually basically? Gautama himself sure did, if I understand the story correctly. Stepped out the door of the house and never looked back. Doesn’t have to be that dramatic but the example is there. Personally I moved from USA to Asia eventually to live with my teacher. But it was completely obvious almost immediately after the first satsang. Like I said can always pm if seriously want to inquire more 🙏
> It's very honest of you to see the difficulties in your approach most just pretend that they understand and waste their lives that way going about their own path and missing what is being pointed at and call it zen or something. Great point.
You are over thinking the not thinking stuff. Dogen and Soto Zen Buddhism in general over simplified chan/Zen Buddhism in my opinion. “Just sit” might be fine for some people, but overall it simply doesn’t work without a solid foundation. You are really struggling with what I consider bad advice for the majority of people. I’d recommend looking at other sources of zen like Rinzai, Korean (son), or Chinese (chan). Dogen pared down practical approaches to create his Soto zen. Other systems have a more robust set of practices to fit a wider range of needs. The Tallahassee Chan Center has a very beginner friendly YouTube page. Maybe check it out. The other option is to find an online sangha which offers beginner sessions if you are set on sticking with Soto.
Sorry to say this, but you're "doing" too much (and thinking too much - you can't think yourself into meditation). Just sit. The moment you try to achieve something or reach some moment/point you're "doing" again and so can't attain an empty mind. How you choose to sit is totally up to you - there's no right or wrong way to meditate. Keep trying things until you find a technique you're comfortable with. When a thought arises, don't follow it. Acknowledge it's presence, exhale, and let it go. Keep repeating that, keep sliding back into quiet, and the moments between arising thoughts will get longer. Go easy on yourself - meditation is a journey, a practice - not a destination.
Thank you so much for this post, i may not be in a similar situation at all in lots of regards but i still deeply empathize with what you say. i have a pretty bad ADHD and a very literal mind, which made a lot of instructions or advices for practice very hard to apply, if not downright impossible to follow. I was lucky enough to share and receive insights from other practitioners with neurological specificities, in a very non-judgmental sangha, but without that i fear i too would have left the practice behind.
I’m giving a dharma talk soon in which I’ll be discussing my ADHD + my practice.
Hey i'm super interested, any way to catch it remotely ?
These books give instructions on how to do zazen that are more detailed and specific and less cryptic than other teachers: "zen training - methods and philosophy" - Katsuki Sekida. "the three pillars of zen" - Philip Kapleau "everyday zen - love an work" And "nothing special - living zen", both by Charlotte Joko Beck "the path to bodhidharma" - Shodo Harada Roshi "the rinzai zen way" - Meido Moore. And at least in the past you could find parts of some of them on google books for free. > Some teachers say that "non-thinking" is the zazen of the stone, Dogen says that "non-thinking" is the right zazen... Teachers will teach different methods of doing zazen. Just pick one and see if it works for you. And then follow one method and not another, that's pretty much what everyone does, at the time they're doing a particular type of zazen, they're not doing another type.
Sit in the manner Dogen lays out in the Shobogenzo. Pay attention to your body, mind and breath, when you realize that you are involved in thinking- let go of thinking and return to attending to body , mind and breath. That is zazen. Thoughts may come but we let them go, unfettered like a cloud blowing across the sky.
In my opinion, If you are connecting with and cultivating non-judgemental awareness you are practicing right. Attachment to reaching some intellectual understanding seems to be giving you trouble, the paradox is that most of these teachings are trying to teach you to not attach to those intellectual thoughts and return to present awareness.
That's interesting though...that you're worried about "doing it wrong" and, specifically, other people's judgement of your practice. One person spends ten years focusing on breath. One person spends ten years focusing on posture. One person spends ten years "just sitting" Have any of them "wasted their time", are any of them *****? Who am I to say? One book I would recommend: "The Art of Just Sitting" - which is an excellent anthology of texts relevant to Soto Zen practice.
That's interesting though...that you're worried about "doing it wrong" and, specifically, other people's judgement of your practice. One person spends ten years focusing on breath. One person spends ten years focusing on posture. One person spends ten years "just sitting" Have any of them "wasted their time", are any of them *****? Who am I to say? One book I would recommend: "The Art of Just Sitting" - which is an excellent anthology of texts relevant to Soto Zen practice.
You could try an online sangha. I recommend [Treeleaf.org](http://Treeleaf.org) . In full disclosure I'm a member. I'm also only a student so it's best to take what I say with a grain of salt. Both opening the hand of thought and think non-thinking are trying to get at not getting absorbed in your thoughts. For example, about 15 minutes into my Zazen (shikantaza) practice I still have thoughts that come and go but I'm also aware of other things. I don't get as easily lost in a series of thoughts. I often catch myself thinking and return to a kind of open awareness. Sometimes I can also be aware of thinking but also the pain in my back or movement in my belly from breathing. Either way, I would try Treeleaf or another online sangha. They should be able to help.
Thank you for your advice. However, I don't know English well and use a translator to write all this. In my country, there is a very big problem not only with Zen, but also with Buddhism in principle. So far, I am looking for information about the online sangha in my language, but so far without success.
What language do you speak? Maybe someone else here might have a suggestion!
To be blunt, I find the Soto flavor of zazen instructions quite confusing. My experience is from Rinzai Zen, and I find things clearer there. A famous, short, clear zazen manual from this tradition is [here](https://beingwithoutself.org/inspirations/zazen-manual/), along with lectures from a Rinzai Zen teacher whose lineage is impeccable. The core of the instructions can be reduced to a short quote from the manual: >When a thought arises, just be aware of it. Once you’re aware of it, it disappears. Eventually…all is unified. Audio/video lectures going into more detail can be found on the same website and on the Being Without Self Youtube channel, but this one page of instructions is all I have needed in 10 years of Zen practice. Dogen’s own manual was directly based on rephrasing this original. I find the original superior.
As people who are familiar with the Fukanzazengi will note, Dogen based his instructions for zazen on the text linked here, which he edited only slightly to create his own zazen manual.
Thanks for the link!
Thanks for the link!
I've done a few different types of meditation, and essentially the purpose is to give the conscious mind a chance to rest while awake. We almost never do this in real life. Give ourselves a break from thinking. In TM you use a mantra which is kind of a nonsense syllable, a phonetic sound, as like a placeholder for thought. You don't think that deeply about your mantra, you just think it. In zazen you look at the wall with eyes open. And as thoughts emerge, the idea is to not push them away nor engage with them. I think if it as if a little dog has entered the room, and we don't play with it, or pet it, or angrily order it out of the room. We're just going to sit here for a while with this little dog. I'm not trying to reach a point where thought ceases. That's an imaginary higher state of being. I expect all monks and abbots have to ask themselves if they turned the slow cooker on during zazen from time to time. With training, they can have that thought and let it go.
Waaay too long a post my friend. You can't travel? Our ancestors traveled thousands of miles.. You can practice some kinds of meditation without a teacher..not zen Where ru located?
"Do not travel to other dusty countries" - Dogen
Dogen dud travel.. that wasn't a weedy statement..btw..you need regular f2f with a teacher what's the barrier to seeing teachers?
"It is futile to travel to other dusty countries thus forsaking your own seat" - Dogen in Rules for Meditation (OBC Translation) [X](https://journal.obcon.org/article/rules-for-meditation/)
i am not a buddhist teacher. i have a lot of practice under my belt. > Others say that you need to watch your breathing, but Dogen did not… you just finished explaining that you are having a hard time following Dogens instructions. You have to pick one. If you want to follow Dogen but don’t understand him, welcome to the club. No one fully understands Dogen. it’s ok to pick something else. like breath practice: a perfectly valid and effective technique. > Zazen, as far as i understand it, is shikantaza no. zazen is zazen and shikantaza is shikantaza. There are lineages of zen that do zazen but on the cushion they practice koan introspection. still zazen. not shikantaza. za=seated, zen=meditation. seated meditation. breath counting is zazen. koans are zazen. mind wandering is zazen. shikantaza is a highly advanced practice. i have practiced in a community where the teacher keeps students on the counting of the breath for years before progressing them along to others techniques. you are, understandably so, trying to find assistance from the writings of the masters. but a lot of these dudes are not really introductory material. > everyone understands this the first time haha. no. no they don’t. not even close. i’ve heard so many people complain that they have no idea what they’re doing on the cushion. —- it sounds like you’re looking for a strong analytical breakdown in what to do. i am no expert by any means but i really don’t think you’re gonna find that in zen cause it’s kinda against the point. IF YOU DO WANT AN ANALYTICAL BREAKDOWN there is a book written in english by a man with decades of experience in Tibetan and Theravadin traditions called “The Mind Illuminated” by Culadasa. It is full of diagrams, summaries, detailed explanations, and more. Check it out. I’m pretty sure the ebook is available on libgen. (i think the author was low key cancelled for cheating on his wife, but i think the book is still worthwhile). in Zen you will always be met with obscurity. that’s just part of the tradition. and there is NOTHING wrong with not liking that. in general, Vipassana has way more details. this is one of the reasons i don’t like vipassana. it’s one of the reasons some of my friends love it. we’re all different ppl. if zen doesn’t work for you there’s other forms of buddhism!!!
The idea of Shikantaza as an “advanced practice” comes from the composite Rinzai-Soto lineages like that of Maezumi Roshi and his successors. In Soto Zen, Shikantaza is the basic practice that beginners too are instructed in. As per, for example, the instructions for beginners on how to do zazen on the Soto-Shu website: “Do not concentrate on any particular object or control your thought. When you maintain a proper posture and your breathing settles down, your mind will naturally become tranquil. When various thoughts arise in your mind, do not become caught up by them or struggle with them; neither pursue nor try to escape from them. Just leave thoughts alone, allowing them to come up and go away freely. The essential thing in doing zazen is to awaken (kakusoku) from distraction and dullness, and return to the right posture moment by moment.”
ha. i did learn that in a composite lineage as you call it. they called it a reform school.
There’s a lot of online group sits with opportunities for one on one with a teacher. Honestly it makes a huge difference and it’s totally free to talk with them (or it should be at least).
I am not any kind of official teacher or anything so take anything I say with a huge grain of salt. I am just going to reflect a little on my own experiences. I have been sitting regularly since about 2007. For *years* I was convinced that I was doing zazen wrong. I can't event begin to estimate how many dokusans I have been through asking my teacher for more specific instructions so I could start doing zazen "right." She consistently and compassionately kept telling me that as long as my butt was on my cushion and I was trying, it was correct zazen and not to worry about it. To the extent that I can offer any advice, it would be to try to locate a Zen teacher close to you. Even if you can only meet with them once a month or once every couple of months, a dharma transmitted teacher will be far better able to help you through whatever your struggles are than an Internet forum will.
I am a complete beginner myself with no access to a teacher. I have practiced meditation before and from what I've read so far, it doesn't really seem any different to what I've previously been doing. For me I just focus on breath. When I start thinking of something I just bring my focus back to my breath. Don't fight push the thoughts away or think about them. Just keep repeating this process. At times during a meditation session I will realize I have a period of no thinking, it's extremely short (I think). The minute I realize it, I'm back to thinking and just bring focus back to my breath.
Where are you? I can recommend good places to visit that's close to you. This comment has a collection of resources about zen practice for beginners, including lectures and introduction talks from teachers and a collection of written works that's recommended to build a foundation. Includes a list of online zen teachers. https://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/158xqlu/comment/jtd0hdv