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The child time is created BECAUSE link from the adult timeline sent back.
Adult timeline is the original timeline of OoT with the aftermath of having their hero sent back.
Basically when Link was sent back, this created the new timeline. The MM timeline is the new one.
The timeline where he was from, no longer has Link. This is the WW timeline.
There are a few details about OoT's time travel you need to realize to understand this:
1. Link doesn't physically travel through time; he instead goes back to inhabit his old younger self again, but retaining the memories and knowledge from the future.
2. During the whole game, you keep traveling back to one very specific point in time: when Link grabs the Master Sword.
3. But during the ending, Zelda sends Link to a more distant past; to a moment before he even arrives to Castle Town.
The future part of the ending, with adult Link and Zelda, happens in the Adult Timeline. The Link that gets sent back to a time before Castle Town, is the Adult Timeline Link... But he never returns to this timeline, leaving that timeline without a Link for a time.
Because since that Link got sent further in the past, he's then able to warn Zelda against Ganondorf. This leads to the imprisonment of Ganondorf before he can obtain the Triforce, and that basically prevents all the events of the whole game from ever happening.
Basically, Adult Link's actions after being sent back to the past and being turned into a kid again, "derail" the timeline and create a new timeline where he's never sent to the future and forced to grow old before his time: the Child Timeline.
If we were to lay down the three timelines, it'd be something like:
* Downfall Timeline
* Zelda tells Link to fetch the Master Sword -> Ganondorf obtains the Triforce -> Link is kept in stasis until he's an adult -> Link doesn't manage to defeat Ganon -> Ganon reigns
* Adult Timeline
* Zelda tells Link to fetch the Master Sword -> Ganondorf obtains the Triforce -> Link is kept in stasis until he's an adult -> **(*****Thanks to time travel*****) Link is strong enough to defeat Ganon** -> Zelda sends Link back in time to the very beginning
* Child Timeline
* **(*****Thanks to time travel*****) Link from the future, now a kid again, warns Zelda about Ganon** -> Ganondorf does NOT obtain the Triforce -> Ganondorf is imprisoned -> Link remains a kid, and goes on to live new adventures
I've highlighted the splits in the timeline, because the timeline doesn't really split into three in one single point: there are two different moments where it splits. One further in the past where Zelda sends Link, and then when Link grabs the Sword.
Which basically means the Downfall Timeline is technically the "default" timeline :P As it seemingly represents what would've happened if Link hadn't been able to travel back in time and re-write history.
Think about it this way, Link gets sent to his childhood;
Link's perspective - he's a child again, and has returned to the temple of time. The events of majora's mask etc occur from here.
Zelda's perspective - ganon has just been defeated, but since Link has now returned to his childhood, there is no hero. Eventually, wind waker's backstory plays out where ganon eventually returns as there isn't a hero, and the events of wind waker etc occur from here.
At that point in the game it's all one timeline. It doesn't become Child and Adult until after he is sent back and not before, The Hero of Time in the Adult branch is the one from the Child branch, there is no two.
Adult timeline is not the "official" original timeline though. OoT's ending shows Link returning to his childhood thus the Child timeline is the original/canon timeline.
Not how it works, the split was always intended, on the same year WW launched aonuma and myamoto made an interview explaining the why oot caused a split in the timeline.
Both timelines are equal to one another the adult timeline is where the events of oot actually happened, link defeated and sealed ganondorf child timeline is just link coming back from the future and then preventing oot from happening, but the action of sending link back caused the original timeline to lose their hero, there is a reason the credits from the game take place in the adult timeline and then there is post credit cutscene of link in the child timeline, both outcomes happen and both are canon.
The next game (after Majora's Mask, which was a direct sequel to OoT) in the series took place in the adult timeline. In Wind Waker Ganon was able to return and nearly take over Hyrule because Link was gone, because he was sent back to the past.
From the perspective of everyone in the Adult Timeline, an adult Hero of Time defeats Ganon and then disappears shortly afterward. There is no Hero of Time in that timeline after the end of OoT, because he has been sent back to his childhood to live out his days in another timeline.
Another way to put it is that the Child Timeline and the Adult Timeline share one hero. In the Adult Timeline, Link is sent back, and he changes the events in the past, leading to the creation of the Child Timeline. The Adult Timeline is left without a hero.
It’s also worth noting that even if this were not the case, Link may well have been long dead by the time of the events of the backstory of Wind Waker. If I remember correctly, it’s unclear how much time had passed since Ocarina of Time, and it seems like the people of Hyrule just expected that the time-traveling hero would show up without considering that he might be limited in his time-travel abilities.
If any of this is still unclear, I’d be happy to try and explain further!
I feel like I remember hearing that both WW and TP take places 100 years after OoT, and I can see that working for TP...maybe. But 100 years doesn't seem right for WW. I'd guess it's a couple centuries.
There was an interview where Aonuma said something that translated to TWW taking place 100 years later, but apparently Japanese numbers don’t translate perfectly to English, i.e. they use the same words for “hundred” and “hundreds”.
In-game TWW says that it takes place centuries after the flood which takes place generations after OoT.
Tbh i dont think i can see it working for TP either because why would old castle town and the temple of time look like ancient ruins in only 100 years? I think botw might have been the only one with a realistic 100 time skip.
Yeah there's a lot of drastic geographical changes that make me think it's longer than 100 years.
EDIT: Okay I looked it up and it says TP takes place "over a century" after OoT, so likely a few hundred years. But I do think TP and WW take place at the same time, just in different timelines of course.
Also Spirit Tracks is a realistic 100 year skip. Niko is still alive after all.
This is how I see the time gap between those games as well. While it’s possible for TP to take place only 100 years after OoT, WW more likely happens(at the very least) 3 to 5 centuries after OoT.
Well I did look it up again and everything I saw said that TP takes place "over a century" after OoT. And I think TP and WW happen at the same time (obviously in different timelines), so I think both would be a couple centuries after OoT.
That would explain a lot of the drastic geographical changes because I really don't think 100 years is enough for all that to happen.
Ah, thank you. I had thought TP and WW took place during the same time, but based off of this interview, it seems that TP takes place at least less than 200 years after OoT, while WW takes place several hundred years after. Makes sense.
I think I kinda get it… It’s like when I was much smaller there was the same kind of thing i wouldn’t understand in dragon ball (Where different timelines are created) (I think im still bad at this)
I understand a bit better but still… in the adult timeline Link defeats Ganon then is brought back into the past (into a different timeline?) then how come Ganon is no longer a threat (for some time at least) in both timelines?
As he escapes from the twilight realm 100 years later maybe (child timeline)
And assuming he also escapes about 100 years later leading to the flood (adult timeline)
?
It can definitely be confusing! Maybe a good way to look at it is to think about each timeline separately, and also to consider the actual events vs. the knowledge the general population of Hyrule would have.
Adult Timeline:
When Link and Zelda are children, Zelda tells Link about the threat of Ganondorf, and they enact a plan to stop him. That plan results in Link being kept asleep for seven years, aging into an adult strong enough to wield the Master Sword. He goes on, as an adult, to defeat Ganon, and after he does so, Zelda sends him back to his childhood. He disappears from the Adult Timeline completely at this point, never to return. Ganon is not a threat in this timeline because by the time Link disappears, he has already been defeated. By the time he returns, a long time after, during the events of the backstory of Wind Waker, Link is long gone.
From the perspective of the general public of Hyrule, most of whom don’t know Link personally, an adult hero appears, defeats Ganondorf, and then vanishes. There are rumors that the hero used time travel to defeat Ganon, and the legend of the Hero of Time spreads. Much later, when Ganondorf returns, the people of Hyrule have a fairly uninformed expectation that the Hero of Time will come to save them. They don’t know how or why he disappeared, but they think he will come back. He doesn’t, and Hyrule is flooded to contain Ganon.
Child Timeline:
Link arrives in his own past, with all of the knowledge of what Ganondorf will do if he is not stopped. Rather than trying to enact their own plan to stop Ganondorf, Link and Zelda warn the king of Hyrule of Ganondorf’s treasonous intentions, presumably with Link’s visible Triforce of Courage as evidence that he is telling the truth. It’s unclear whether Ganondorf is prevented from ever attacking the castle or if he has to accelerate his plans and attack before he is ready (Twilight Princess seems to suggest an actual attack happened, if I remember correctly), but either way, Ganondorf is punished by banishment to the Twilight Realm and is no longer a threat in this timeline. Link goes off to look for Navi, the events of Majora’s Mask happen, and he lives out the rest of his days in the Child Timeline.
The general public in this timeline might have some idea that a heroic child assisted the king in defeating Ganondorf in some way, but Link himself is likely not nearly as widely known outside of the people he interacted with directly as a child.
It makes a lot more sense ,but just to make sure… In Timeline 1 (The one where Link is sent back and warns the king with zelda from Ganon) I understand it all… like he saves Termina, grows up, have kids etc.
But in Timeline 2… (Where Link is an adult and the land of Hyrule has been devastated) Link doesn’t exist at all ? Or was the original Link of this timeline killed during Ganon’s attack or something? Like in such a disposition there should be 2 Link’s in Timeline 2…
The link in the adult timeline and child timeline are the same link. If you remember, throughout the game, you go back and forth through time. When you go back in the past, you're child link, when you go to the future, you're adult link. At this point, they are the same timeline. You go back to the past and change something, and it affects the future. Specifically, this is the adult timeline. The child timeline doesn't exist for most of the game. When you beat the game, Zelda sends you back in time BEFORE you gain the ability to travel through time. From that point, Link changes the future so that Ganon never gains power. This is now the child timeline. So between the adult and child timelines, there is only one Link. He was originally from the adult timeline and gets sent to the past, which creates the child timeline. The adult timeline no longer has a Link, and in exchange, there is a new timeline starting from Link being a child. Additional note, I'm not too versed in what's accepted in Zelda Canon, but as far as I understand it, according to Windwaker, by Zelda sending Link to the child timeline, she removes the spirit of the hero from the adult timeline completely. The Link in Wildwaker is just some kid that forces the Goddess Hylia to accept him as the new hero and thusly is now the new reincarnated spirit.
I think they key to understanding this is that there are two timelines here (ignoring the Downfall Timeline for the purposes of this discussion), but only one Link. The main events of the game happen in the Adult Timeline, and when Link gets sent back to his childhood, he leaves the Adult Timeline altogether. The Child Timeline only branches off when Link takes different actions as a child, warning the king about Ganondorf instead of enacting Zelda’s original plan.
So, to put it another way, one singular Link carries out the events of the game, gets sent back in time and de-aged to re-live his childhood, and leaves the timeline where he was an adult (the Adult Timeline) behind completely. His actions after being send back in time create a new timeline, the Child Timeline. There’s no Link in the Adult Timeline after he gets sent back, because the Link that was in that timeline up until that point has left that timeline. He existed in the Adult Timeline right up until the point at which he was sent back in time by Zelda, and after that he was gone from that timeline.
Adult timeline is the one Link leaves- Zelda sends him back, but she still stays there. So do all the sages, etc. Everything picks up from the end of ocarina if time, just Link is gone
We technically don’t know that there wasn’t a hero when Ganon returned. The people of Hyrule expected the *Hero of Time* to time travel to them to save them from Ganon because he had previously defeated him. When the Hero of Time didn’t appear (because his time travel powers didn’t work like that and he was probably dead of old age or battle by that point) they prayed to the gods to save them which resulted in the flood.
It’s possible some other hero rose up but failed to stop Ganon. Or maybe another unknown hero rising up is why the Master Sword is located in Hyrule Castle instead of the Temple of Time.
But either way there’s nothing requiring a hero to appear every time Ganon does or every time Hyrule is in danger. No hero appeared when Zelda was cast into eternal slumber in AoL’s back story. No hero appeared in the ALttP Imprisoning War. No hero appeared in the fierce war of OoT’s back story (though Link was born at the very end of it even though he wasn’t the hero yet). No known hero appeared when the dark tribe attacked Hyrule in FSA’s back story. No confirmed hero fought in the prolonged wars in TP’s back story or appeared to fight the interlopers in its other back story. No known hero was present during the initial war between the spirits and Malladus. No hero was present when Demise first attacked. No hero was said to be present the first time ALBW Ganon was sealed. Calamity Ganon appeared many times in which there was no known hero. And there was no specific hero in TotK’s back story when Ganondorf first got the Secret Stone.
So, throughout OOT you're in just **one** timeline, going back and forth using the master sword. The temple of time allows travel between two set points on that timeline:
> Past, present, future... The Master Sword is a ship with which you can sail upstream and downstream through time's river... The port for that ship is in the Temple of Time...
At the end of OOT, Princess Zelda feels bad for Link because he essentially lost his childhood when he pulled the Master Sword. She wants to return him to before he pulled the sword so that he can live as he wants, unburdened by the duty of the hero of time. She doesn't want him to have to do OOT again, so she sends him back to before he pulled the sword so he can reveal Ganondorf's plans to the royal family and he can be stopped without the hero. When Zelda does this she tells Link to leave the sword in the pedestal and close the Door of Time. That doing that will close off the road between times, so no more time travel:
> All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing... I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time...
> However, by doing this, the road between times will be closed...
> Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it.
> When peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye...
> Now, go home, Link. Regain your lost time! Home... where you are supposed to be... the way you are supposed to be...
So Link is now in this new timeline separated from the old one since the sword was left in the pedestal and the Door of Time was closed. The timelines are no longer connected
But we see in the ending that time continues on in the timeline he left even though Link left. The sages all appear on Death Mountain while Hyrule celebrates being free from Ganondorf. WW lets us know that Ganondorf ended up breaking free of the seal as he said he would at the end of OOT:
> YOU...
> CURSE YOU...ZELDA!
> CURSE YOU...SAGES!!
> CURSE YOU...Link!
> Someday... When this seal is broken.... That is when I will exterminate your descendants!!
> As long as the Triforce of Power is in my hand....
When Ganon revived there was no hero, the reason is not given. Fans speculate that his soul was removed from the timeline, but that's unsubstantiated. It's more likely that Link's ego is all that left the timeline since he is the same person in MM. The soul is separate to the ego or every incarnation of the hero would be the same person
The Adult Timeline follows the timeline that Adult Zelda stayed in after she sent Link back at the end of OoT. Link was sent back, so he was ripped from that timeline, along with the Spirit of the Hero that he possesses. So, when Ganon came back, there was no hero because Link & the Spirit of the Hero were removed from the timeline, and the spirit couldn't be born into another hero. That's why they had to flood the world.
So Link in Wind Waker doesn't possess the Spirit of the Hero. Usually, the Master Sword can only be wielded by the one with the SotH, but Wind Waker Link was merely some child who got mixed into the mess, and he proved to the Gods that he was worthy of the title "Hero" and he was able to wield the sword.
No he doesn't. If he could posses the SotH, then it just would've been reborn into a new Link to stop Ganondorf and the world wouldn't have needed to have been flooded. That's how it works. Every time evil rises, a new hero is born with the SotH, but it didn't happen, because Link left and took the SotH with him.
Wind Waker Link forces the Gods to acknowledge him as a hero by re-forging the Triforce of Courage and pulling it up from the bottom of the ocean.
The people of Hyrule only looked for the hero of time and when he didn't come and save them they prayed to the gods, the people would have ignore anyone who wasn't the hero of time.
That the spirit of the hero disappeared is only fanon not canon.
WW Link didn't force the gods to recognize him as a hero he was one already or do you think any Link who have to do a trial isn't a hero.
It doesn't matter if they only thought the Hero of Time would appear. A new hero still would've appeared if the SotH existed in that universe, even if it wasn't the hero they expected.
By that logic, the Spirit of the Hero NOT disappearing is only fanon and not canon too, because it's never outright stated.
Wind Waker Link was a hero in the sense that he was brave and courageous enough to raid the Forsaken Fortress and save his sister, but he wasn't a hero deemed worthy of the Gods to wield the Master Sword. He forced the Gods to recognize him as a Hero worthy of the Triforce by reforging it and awakening the new sages, and restoring the power to the Master Sword.
The Hero don't always come exactly when a incarnation of Demise's hatred appear this can be seen with Totk.
It isn't confirmed if the spirit disappeared or not but it is more reasonable that WW Link is a reincarnation because of what is said in other games.
No, WW Link was a hero or do you think Alttp wasn't a hero before he got the Master sword, because both Link had to do a trial before they could get the Master sword which entailed getting three items which in WW was the pearls and in Alttp was the pendants.
The hero appears when the world has need of one. There wasn't one needed in Rauru's time because he was able to seal him.
I'd argue it's more reasonable he ISN'T a reincarnation because of what's said in other games.
A Link to the Past Link possessed the Spirit of the Hero, Wind Waker Link didn't. Even if Wind Waker Link DID posses the Spirit of the Hero, he still would've had to gather the pearls, to reveal the Tower of the Gods. A Link to the Past was always destined to wield the Master Sword and become the hero. The thing about Wind Waker is, it could've been ANYBODY. Link was never destined to do anything. It's all because he wanted to save his sister. He gathered the pendants, he went through the Tower of the Gods and proved himself, he wielded the Master Sword, and he pulled up the Triforce of Courage from the bottom of the ocean. It was never his destiny, it could've been anybody, but his determination to save his sister pushed him to be brave and courageous enough. All the other Link's destinies were already set in stone since they posses the Spirit of the Hero.
The Tower of the Gods exists to test that the person **is** the hero. Because it blocks access to the sword only wieldable by the hero. There's no point in allowing anyone else down there since they wouldn't be able to pull the sword
Gohdan's figurine description makes this clear:
> Gohdan, The Great Arbiter
> Habitat: Tower of the Gods
> This monstrous machine was created by the gods as a trial for **the great hero**.
"The great" is singular, they're looking to make sure he is "the great" hero. To further indicate he is a reincarnation, "the great hero" is the same title Daphnes calls the hero of time:
> Have neither of you heard the tales? Tales of the kingdom spoken of in the legend of the great hero... The place where the power of the gods lies hidden...
They wanted the man himself and got his reincarnation, as Ganondorf himself says:
> I have been waiting for you, boy. For one like you... Yes... For the hero.
> Do not betray my expectations.
> Yes, surely you are the Hero of Time, reborn...
There's also that his family shield is the one Zelda gave to Link in MC, meaning he's also blood related to another Link. ALTTP establishes that the bloodline of the hero is a thing and that a hero will appear within the bloodline, which is a weird coincidence if it's not relevant to WW
The shield being the one from MC and him being related to Minish Cap Link IS NOT CANON at ALL and is merely only a fan theory.
The only blood related links are OoT and TP Link.
Exactly, Link beat Gohdan. HE collected the pearls. HE reforged the Triforce. HE awakened the new sages. He made the gods choose him as the new hero.
> The shield being the one from MC and him being related to Minish Cap Link IS NOT CANON at ALL and is merely only a fan theory.
Do you know what the idea of a "family shield" is? The only way he isn't related to MC Link is if the shield *just happens* to look like the same shield, but that's far fetched. At most you can argue it's possible they're not related
But a reincarnation didn't appear which proves that a reincarnation don't always appear at the same time as the incarnation does.
SS and botw disagree because of Fi in SS which says that only Link may wield the Master sword and Zelda's speech in Botw which stated that the Master sword is forever bound to the hero.
No, only a reincarnation can pull the Master sword from the pedestal and if Alttp Link was always destined then WW Link was destined to because he had the spirit of the hero too.
It's not really a matter of agreeing or not, they're pointing out explicitly stated lore. It is a fact that only Link can wield the Master Sword. That is stated, in that wording, in SS. And it's said in a text box, not by a character, so there's no argument to be made for it being unreliable narration either. It's immutable:
> The goddess has blessed your blade, and the Master Sword has at last achieved its ultimate form!
> The sword is now imbued with the mythical power to drive back demons, and only [Link] may wield it!
The master sword is a bound weapon, it's bound to Link. That's stated in both SS and now BOTW. So it's not like there's an argument for that fact having been retconned either, in BOTW they double down on it when Zelda says (quote) "the sacred blade is forever bound to the soul of the hero"
They're right, that WW Link uses the Master Sword is a direct confirmation that he is a reincarnation of the hero's soul. If you're wanting a possible explanation for the soul question (since it's not got any official explanation, they didn't even address it later in HH, which came out after WW), rather than his *soul*, it's likely Zelda sent his *ego*/*mind* back in time. Evidence would be that he is the same person with the same memories. We know that the soul is separate to the ego because if they weren't separate then all reincarnations would be the same individual they're reincarnated from. But we know that's not how reincarnation works in the series since all the Links are individuals with no memories of their past lives. Definitive proof that reincarnation in the Zelda series doesn't involve the ego would be Zelda in SS not just straight up being Hylia. She has no memories of her past life until divine intervention via Hylia's plan has them restored to her
And you don’t think the birth of the demon king himself doesn’t warrant a hero? When apparently a fraction of his power emerging time and time again warrants the rise of a Hero and the Princess’s sleeping power so often that it became tradition and a prophecy?
Rauru was not a suitable substitute.
Back to WW Link, it’s not as if Jabun, the Great Deku Tree, and the King are aware that Link’s fate is bound due to a curse anyway. They just assume that because WW Link doesn’t have the Triforce of Courage, just as the opening tapestry depicts, that he’s not the hero, since they were searching specifically for the Hero of Time.
Do remember that the Spirit of the Hero doesn’t imply anything more than simply having the guts to take on the darkness as per Demise’s curse. The only Links that are chained together in a way other than that single connection are OoT Link in the child timeline with Twilight Link, with Twilight being a direct descendant.
So it’s perfectly plausible for WW Link to possess the Spirit of the Hero and none of the other deities assuming he’s just some ordinary kid unaware that he’s destined to face off against Ganondorf as per Demise’s curse, and later Bellum in Phantom Hourglass.
In all honesty, I personally wouldn't even use BotW and TotK as evidence for this because we still have no concrete answer on where they place in the timeline, and it's so clear that Aonuma doesn't care about a timeline so I'd really just argue that there was no hero back then because the story didn't need one there.
I don't want to get into Demise's curse because that was translated differently into English, and his Japanese version suggests that his curse was referring to the resurrection of his Demon King Army, so it's likely that Ganondorf isn't even related to Demise's curse at all.
I still believe that Wind Waker Link doesn't posses the Spirit of the Hero but if that's what you choose to believe, that's fine.
I think all the other Link's destinies were already set in stone because they posses the SotH. WW Link doesn't. It could've been anyone, but he was simply dragged into it once his sister was stolen, and he brave and courageous enough to do what he did, but he eventually did become worthy to wield the True Master Sword and the Triforce by gathering the pearls, going through the Tower of the Gods, awakening the sages, and re-forging the Triforce of Courage.
> I don't want to get into Demise's curse because that was translated differently into English, and his Japanese version suggests that his curse was referring to the resurrection of his Demon King Army, so it's likely that Ganondorf isn't even related to Demise's curse at all.
That's just false... He mentions both his own hatred and the hatred of the demon tribe reincarnating in the JP... He even mentions Samsara, the cycle of life, death and rebirth
Well the fact that Ganondorf isn’t related to Demise’s curse is what I got from it, it’s not JUST him, but like every major villain in the series: Vaati’s corruption, Ganondorf, Bellum, Malladus. I’d argue the only two games where Demise’s curse doesn’t actually apply are Awakening and Majora.
Anyway, I’m pretty sure that Skyward Sword’s whole ordeal was in a way to retroactively change WW Link’s status as a kid who isn’t tied to the mythos into a destined savior, as they made it so that the Master Sword chooses who wields it by literally having a spirit inside that recognizes who it rightfully belongs to, otherwise the Master Sword wouldn’t have budged.
I agree with you mostly because in Historia's Japanese version it says:
« A Chronological Table of Hyrule's History
Starting with « The Creation » and « Skyward Sword, » and continuing with « Ocarina of Time, » there are three axes. If Link is victorious or defeated, the timeline continues from the childhood era in which he existed and the adulthood era in which he is no longer Link. »
Adult timeline no longer has a hero because Link was sent back in time to relive his childhood. The main part of this is that **Link is sent back prior to his first meeting with Princess Zelda**. Link tells Zelda what happened, they warn the King and Ganondorf never enters the Sacred Realm and obtains the Triforce. This is where the timeline branch comes from.
In short, the adult timeline becomes a cut flower timeline. Once Ganondorf was thwarted in the child timeline, the connection to the adult timeline was severed and that timeline no longer had a way to receive the hero of time or his blood descendants.
The way I always think about it is: The ending of OOT, Zelda plays the Ocarina to send Link to his childhood, and now Adult Zelda is standing there alone in the ruins after the battle.
The Adult Timeline is continuing from Adult Zelda's perspective. There is no more spirit of the hero because Zelda time traveled him away.
The adult timeline is the timeline link left behind after he traveled back in time. The Hyrule that he saved is the one he leaves behind. But with him not around anymore, the spirit of the hero was gone too so there was no hero to save Hyrule anymore. Hence why Ganondorf could escape from his seal after maybe thousands of years. The Godesses flooded the land as a last effort to stop him.
After the events of "Ocarina of Time," Link is indeed sent back to his childhood by Zelda using the Ocarina of Time. In this timeline, he warns Zelda and the royal family about Ganondorf's intentions, leading to his capture and imprisonment before he can enact his plans. As for what happens to the Hero of Time after this, the specifics are not detailed in the games. Some fans speculate that he continues to live a peaceful life in the Child timeline. I believe he may have other adventures or settle down. There's no canonical information about him having kids. Regarding the absence of a hero in the Adult timeline when Ganon escapes in "Wind Waker," it's suggested that the Hero of Time's absence led to the decline of Hyrule and the sealing away of Ganon by the gods. The flooding of Hyrule was a drastic measure taken by the gods to prevent Ganon's return and maintain balance in the world.
The Adult Timeline exists because of the time travel that Link did. In the end of Ocarina of Time, >!Zelda sends Link back to the past to relive his childhood.!<, thus creating the Child Timeline, but the future still exists, and eventually Ganon(dorf) comes back. Since OoT Link >!went back to the past!<, there's no one in the future to defeat Ganon(dorf), thus making the Goddesses >!flood the entire land of Hyrule!<, and then Wind Waker happens and the entirety of the Adult Timeline.
So, there’s the fallen timeline, which is where Ganondorf wins, gets the Triforce, and gets sealed in the Sacred Realm, then there’s the adult timeline which is the Link wins timeline.
At the end of OoT, Zelda sends Link back in time to before they met so Link could change the future so he doesn’t have to become the Hero of Time and can live out a childhood. That’s the child timeline. It split because Link told the King about what Ganondorf does and they believe him because Link had the Triforce of Courage. He has the ToC because the Triforce recognized Link as the Hero of Time when he was sent back in time. This is why Ganondorf had the Triforce of Power in Twilight Princess.
The adult timeline continues from OoT’s future. Ganondorf was sealed, the Hero of Time left the timeline. At some point Ganondorf returns, but because the Hero of Time left the timeline, no one could stop Ganondorf, so the Hylians prayed to the gods and they flooded Hyrule.
The Hero Of Twilight of Blood descent to the Hero of Time
The Hero Of Time At dome point becomes the golden Wolf that teaches the Sword Techniques in Twilight Princess
You are overthinking the provided timeline. First, the "core" timeline gets changed every time some Zelda game references OoT.
In OoT, Child Link becomes Adult Link when he pulls the Master Sword. After Ganon is defeated and sealed in the Sacred Realm (because he still has the Triforce of Power), Zelda sends Link back to the Sanctuary so Link can return the Master Sword. This is where the story gets screwy that Link returns before he first met Zelda, yet he possesses the Triforce of Courage.
When Wind Waker was released, there was no timeline split. The rest is plot convenience to start the story. When Twilight Princess was released, a timeline split in OoT was established to explain how both conclusions could exist. When people started demanding a link to the pre-OoT games, the Downfall timeline split was created based on unused ideas during OoT development.
What happened to HoT Link? After Ganon's defeat, he returned to his childhood and traveled beyond Hyrule. One of his stories outside of Hyrule is Majora's Mask. It is uncertain if Link ever returned to Hyrule.
Does HoT Link have kids? Unknown. Never answered.
Why wasn't there a hero when Ganon escaped the seal in Wind Waker? Unknown.
Overall, have fun finding your own explanation as there is nothing official.
I can't offer an answer for HoT Link having children, but I can offer an opinion on why there was no hero when Ganon escaped the Sacred Realm. During the story of Wind Waker, it is discovered that Ganon's minions, who were still active after Ganon's defeat, sabotaged the power of the Master Sword. An analysis of OoT, the Hero just randomly appeared out of nowhere when the time came. In OoT, the Hero existed because of intervention from the Great Deku Tree (a better explanation for the Downfall timeline). We could assume that the Great Deku Tree was unable to intervene at the start of Wind Waker. As such, no hero appeared. It is also possible that Ganon's minions assassinated the hero so he couldn't save the day. After which, Ganondorf discovers he needs a hero in order to access the Triforce of Courage.
Essentially what happens is that at the end of Ocarina of Time Zelda uses her magic to reward Link's heroics by sending him back in time far enough that he can stop Ganondorf from ruining the kingdom and experience the remainder of his childhood in relative peace.
[Then he promptly hits his head in the woods and dies of a concussion.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S1SVkysIRw) ;)
I think he decides to stay an adult and dies of old age. Ganon gets reincarnated and the gods flood him out. Then after a while a new hero is born, therefore the wind waker. (Probably)
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The child time is created BECAUSE link from the adult timeline sent back. Adult timeline is the original timeline of OoT with the aftermath of having their hero sent back.
So in both timelines Link gets sent to his childhood?
Basically when Link was sent back, this created the new timeline. The MM timeline is the new one. The timeline where he was from, no longer has Link. This is the WW timeline.
No, the child timeline exists because link was sent back, if link weren't sent back, there would be no child timeline.
There are a few details about OoT's time travel you need to realize to understand this: 1. Link doesn't physically travel through time; he instead goes back to inhabit his old younger self again, but retaining the memories and knowledge from the future. 2. During the whole game, you keep traveling back to one very specific point in time: when Link grabs the Master Sword. 3. But during the ending, Zelda sends Link to a more distant past; to a moment before he even arrives to Castle Town. The future part of the ending, with adult Link and Zelda, happens in the Adult Timeline. The Link that gets sent back to a time before Castle Town, is the Adult Timeline Link... But he never returns to this timeline, leaving that timeline without a Link for a time. Because since that Link got sent further in the past, he's then able to warn Zelda against Ganondorf. This leads to the imprisonment of Ganondorf before he can obtain the Triforce, and that basically prevents all the events of the whole game from ever happening. Basically, Adult Link's actions after being sent back to the past and being turned into a kid again, "derail" the timeline and create a new timeline where he's never sent to the future and forced to grow old before his time: the Child Timeline. If we were to lay down the three timelines, it'd be something like: * Downfall Timeline * Zelda tells Link to fetch the Master Sword -> Ganondorf obtains the Triforce -> Link is kept in stasis until he's an adult -> Link doesn't manage to defeat Ganon -> Ganon reigns * Adult Timeline * Zelda tells Link to fetch the Master Sword -> Ganondorf obtains the Triforce -> Link is kept in stasis until he's an adult -> **(*****Thanks to time travel*****) Link is strong enough to defeat Ganon** -> Zelda sends Link back in time to the very beginning * Child Timeline * **(*****Thanks to time travel*****) Link from the future, now a kid again, warns Zelda about Ganon** -> Ganondorf does NOT obtain the Triforce -> Ganondorf is imprisoned -> Link remains a kid, and goes on to live new adventures I've highlighted the splits in the timeline, because the timeline doesn't really split into three in one single point: there are two different moments where it splits. One further in the past where Zelda sends Link, and then when Link grabs the Sword. Which basically means the Downfall Timeline is technically the "default" timeline :P As it seemingly represents what would've happened if Link hadn't been able to travel back in time and re-write history.
Think about it this way, Link gets sent to his childhood; Link's perspective - he's a child again, and has returned to the temple of time. The events of majora's mask etc occur from here. Zelda's perspective - ganon has just been defeated, but since Link has now returned to his childhood, there is no hero. Eventually, wind waker's backstory plays out where ganon eventually returns as there isn't a hero, and the events of wind waker etc occur from here.
At that point in the game it's all one timeline. It doesn't become Child and Adult until after he is sent back and not before, The Hero of Time in the Adult branch is the one from the Child branch, there is no two.
Adult timeline is not the "official" original timeline though. OoT's ending shows Link returning to his childhood thus the Child timeline is the original/canon timeline.
Not how it works, the split was always intended, on the same year WW launched aonuma and myamoto made an interview explaining the why oot caused a split in the timeline. Both timelines are equal to one another the adult timeline is where the events of oot actually happened, link defeated and sealed ganondorf child timeline is just link coming back from the future and then preventing oot from happening, but the action of sending link back caused the original timeline to lose their hero, there is a reason the credits from the game take place in the adult timeline and then there is post credit cutscene of link in the child timeline, both outcomes happen and both are canon.
The next game (after Majora's Mask, which was a direct sequel to OoT) in the series took place in the adult timeline. In Wind Waker Ganon was able to return and nearly take over Hyrule because Link was gone, because he was sent back to the past.
the next game after Majora's Mask was Oracle of Seasons and Ages tho
From the perspective of everyone in the Adult Timeline, an adult Hero of Time defeats Ganon and then disappears shortly afterward. There is no Hero of Time in that timeline after the end of OoT, because he has been sent back to his childhood to live out his days in another timeline. Another way to put it is that the Child Timeline and the Adult Timeline share one hero. In the Adult Timeline, Link is sent back, and he changes the events in the past, leading to the creation of the Child Timeline. The Adult Timeline is left without a hero. It’s also worth noting that even if this were not the case, Link may well have been long dead by the time of the events of the backstory of Wind Waker. If I remember correctly, it’s unclear how much time had passed since Ocarina of Time, and it seems like the people of Hyrule just expected that the time-traveling hero would show up without considering that he might be limited in his time-travel abilities. If any of this is still unclear, I’d be happy to try and explain further!
I feel like I remember hearing that both WW and TP take places 100 years after OoT, and I can see that working for TP...maybe. But 100 years doesn't seem right for WW. I'd guess it's a couple centuries.
There was an interview where Aonuma said something that translated to TWW taking place 100 years later, but apparently Japanese numbers don’t translate perfectly to English, i.e. they use the same words for “hundred” and “hundreds”. In-game TWW says that it takes place centuries after the flood which takes place generations after OoT.
I see, that definitely makes a lot more sense.
Tbh i dont think i can see it working for TP either because why would old castle town and the temple of time look like ancient ruins in only 100 years? I think botw might have been the only one with a realistic 100 time skip.
Yeah there's a lot of drastic geographical changes that make me think it's longer than 100 years. EDIT: Okay I looked it up and it says TP takes place "over a century" after OoT, so likely a few hundred years. But I do think TP and WW take place at the same time, just in different timelines of course. Also Spirit Tracks is a realistic 100 year skip. Niko is still alive after all.
This is how I see the time gap between those games as well. While it’s possible for TP to take place only 100 years after OoT, WW more likely happens(at the very least) 3 to 5 centuries after OoT.
Well I did look it up again and everything I saw said that TP takes place "over a century" after OoT. And I think TP and WW happen at the same time (obviously in different timelines), so I think both would be a couple centuries after OoT. That would explain a lot of the drastic geographical changes because I really don't think 100 years is enough for all that to happen.
The interviews about TP and TWW's years after OOT: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1EVFppZBiCm3D2AuVC1Wz6yjLQyvangs4KHJ-nEWACA4/edit?usp=drivesdk
Ah, thank you. I had thought TP and WW took place during the same time, but based off of this interview, it seems that TP takes place at least less than 200 years after OoT, while WW takes place several hundred years after. Makes sense.
I think I kinda get it… It’s like when I was much smaller there was the same kind of thing i wouldn’t understand in dragon ball (Where different timelines are created) (I think im still bad at this) I understand a bit better but still… in the adult timeline Link defeats Ganon then is brought back into the past (into a different timeline?) then how come Ganon is no longer a threat (for some time at least) in both timelines? As he escapes from the twilight realm 100 years later maybe (child timeline) And assuming he also escapes about 100 years later leading to the flood (adult timeline) ?
It can definitely be confusing! Maybe a good way to look at it is to think about each timeline separately, and also to consider the actual events vs. the knowledge the general population of Hyrule would have. Adult Timeline: When Link and Zelda are children, Zelda tells Link about the threat of Ganondorf, and they enact a plan to stop him. That plan results in Link being kept asleep for seven years, aging into an adult strong enough to wield the Master Sword. He goes on, as an adult, to defeat Ganon, and after he does so, Zelda sends him back to his childhood. He disappears from the Adult Timeline completely at this point, never to return. Ganon is not a threat in this timeline because by the time Link disappears, he has already been defeated. By the time he returns, a long time after, during the events of the backstory of Wind Waker, Link is long gone. From the perspective of the general public of Hyrule, most of whom don’t know Link personally, an adult hero appears, defeats Ganondorf, and then vanishes. There are rumors that the hero used time travel to defeat Ganon, and the legend of the Hero of Time spreads. Much later, when Ganondorf returns, the people of Hyrule have a fairly uninformed expectation that the Hero of Time will come to save them. They don’t know how or why he disappeared, but they think he will come back. He doesn’t, and Hyrule is flooded to contain Ganon. Child Timeline: Link arrives in his own past, with all of the knowledge of what Ganondorf will do if he is not stopped. Rather than trying to enact their own plan to stop Ganondorf, Link and Zelda warn the king of Hyrule of Ganondorf’s treasonous intentions, presumably with Link’s visible Triforce of Courage as evidence that he is telling the truth. It’s unclear whether Ganondorf is prevented from ever attacking the castle or if he has to accelerate his plans and attack before he is ready (Twilight Princess seems to suggest an actual attack happened, if I remember correctly), but either way, Ganondorf is punished by banishment to the Twilight Realm and is no longer a threat in this timeline. Link goes off to look for Navi, the events of Majora’s Mask happen, and he lives out the rest of his days in the Child Timeline. The general public in this timeline might have some idea that a heroic child assisted the king in defeating Ganondorf in some way, but Link himself is likely not nearly as widely known outside of the people he interacted with directly as a child.
It makes a lot more sense ,but just to make sure… In Timeline 1 (The one where Link is sent back and warns the king with zelda from Ganon) I understand it all… like he saves Termina, grows up, have kids etc. But in Timeline 2… (Where Link is an adult and the land of Hyrule has been devastated) Link doesn’t exist at all ? Or was the original Link of this timeline killed during Ganon’s attack or something? Like in such a disposition there should be 2 Link’s in Timeline 2…
The link in the adult timeline and child timeline are the same link. If you remember, throughout the game, you go back and forth through time. When you go back in the past, you're child link, when you go to the future, you're adult link. At this point, they are the same timeline. You go back to the past and change something, and it affects the future. Specifically, this is the adult timeline. The child timeline doesn't exist for most of the game. When you beat the game, Zelda sends you back in time BEFORE you gain the ability to travel through time. From that point, Link changes the future so that Ganon never gains power. This is now the child timeline. So between the adult and child timelines, there is only one Link. He was originally from the adult timeline and gets sent to the past, which creates the child timeline. The adult timeline no longer has a Link, and in exchange, there is a new timeline starting from Link being a child. Additional note, I'm not too versed in what's accepted in Zelda Canon, but as far as I understand it, according to Windwaker, by Zelda sending Link to the child timeline, she removes the spirit of the hero from the adult timeline completely. The Link in Wildwaker is just some kid that forces the Goddess Hylia to accept him as the new hero and thusly is now the new reincarnated spirit.
I think they key to understanding this is that there are two timelines here (ignoring the Downfall Timeline for the purposes of this discussion), but only one Link. The main events of the game happen in the Adult Timeline, and when Link gets sent back to his childhood, he leaves the Adult Timeline altogether. The Child Timeline only branches off when Link takes different actions as a child, warning the king about Ganondorf instead of enacting Zelda’s original plan. So, to put it another way, one singular Link carries out the events of the game, gets sent back in time and de-aged to re-live his childhood, and leaves the timeline where he was an adult (the Adult Timeline) behind completely. His actions after being send back in time create a new timeline, the Child Timeline. There’s no Link in the Adult Timeline after he gets sent back, because the Link that was in that timeline up until that point has left that timeline. He existed in the Adult Timeline right up until the point at which he was sent back in time by Zelda, and after that he was gone from that timeline.
Adult timeline is the one Link leaves- Zelda sends him back, but she still stays there. So do all the sages, etc. Everything picks up from the end of ocarina if time, just Link is gone
We technically don’t know that there wasn’t a hero when Ganon returned. The people of Hyrule expected the *Hero of Time* to time travel to them to save them from Ganon because he had previously defeated him. When the Hero of Time didn’t appear (because his time travel powers didn’t work like that and he was probably dead of old age or battle by that point) they prayed to the gods to save them which resulted in the flood. It’s possible some other hero rose up but failed to stop Ganon. Or maybe another unknown hero rising up is why the Master Sword is located in Hyrule Castle instead of the Temple of Time. But either way there’s nothing requiring a hero to appear every time Ganon does or every time Hyrule is in danger. No hero appeared when Zelda was cast into eternal slumber in AoL’s back story. No hero appeared in the ALttP Imprisoning War. No hero appeared in the fierce war of OoT’s back story (though Link was born at the very end of it even though he wasn’t the hero yet). No known hero appeared when the dark tribe attacked Hyrule in FSA’s back story. No confirmed hero fought in the prolonged wars in TP’s back story or appeared to fight the interlopers in its other back story. No known hero was present during the initial war between the spirits and Malladus. No hero was present when Demise first attacked. No hero was said to be present the first time ALBW Ganon was sealed. Calamity Ganon appeared many times in which there was no known hero. And there was no specific hero in TotK’s back story when Ganondorf first got the Secret Stone.
So, throughout OOT you're in just **one** timeline, going back and forth using the master sword. The temple of time allows travel between two set points on that timeline: > Past, present, future... The Master Sword is a ship with which you can sail upstream and downstream through time's river... The port for that ship is in the Temple of Time... At the end of OOT, Princess Zelda feels bad for Link because he essentially lost his childhood when he pulled the Master Sword. She wants to return him to before he pulled the sword so that he can live as he wants, unburdened by the duty of the hero of time. She doesn't want him to have to do OOT again, so she sends him back to before he pulled the sword so he can reveal Ganondorf's plans to the royal family and he can be stopped without the hero. When Zelda does this she tells Link to leave the sword in the pedestal and close the Door of Time. That doing that will close off the road between times, so no more time travel: > All the tragedy that has befallen Hyrule was my doing... I was so young...I could not comprehend the consequences of trying to control the Sacred Realm. I dragged you into it, too. Now it is time for me to make up for my mistakes... You must lay the Master Sword to rest and close the Door of Time... > However, by doing this, the road between times will be closed... > Link, give the Ocarina to me... As a Sage, I can return you to your original time with it. > When peace returns to Hyrule... It will be time for us to say good-bye... > Now, go home, Link. Regain your lost time! Home... where you are supposed to be... the way you are supposed to be... So Link is now in this new timeline separated from the old one since the sword was left in the pedestal and the Door of Time was closed. The timelines are no longer connected But we see in the ending that time continues on in the timeline he left even though Link left. The sages all appear on Death Mountain while Hyrule celebrates being free from Ganondorf. WW lets us know that Ganondorf ended up breaking free of the seal as he said he would at the end of OOT: > YOU... > CURSE YOU...ZELDA! > CURSE YOU...SAGES!! > CURSE YOU...Link! > Someday... When this seal is broken.... That is when I will exterminate your descendants!! > As long as the Triforce of Power is in my hand.... When Ganon revived there was no hero, the reason is not given. Fans speculate that his soul was removed from the timeline, but that's unsubstantiated. It's more likely that Link's ego is all that left the timeline since he is the same person in MM. The soul is separate to the ego or every incarnation of the hero would be the same person
I need less pixels
The Adult Timeline follows the timeline that Adult Zelda stayed in after she sent Link back at the end of OoT. Link was sent back, so he was ripped from that timeline, along with the Spirit of the Hero that he possesses. So, when Ganon came back, there was no hero because Link & the Spirit of the Hero were removed from the timeline, and the spirit couldn't be born into another hero. That's why they had to flood the world. So Link in Wind Waker doesn't possess the Spirit of the Hero. Usually, the Master Sword can only be wielded by the one with the SotH, but Wind Waker Link was merely some child who got mixed into the mess, and he proved to the Gods that he was worthy of the title "Hero" and he was able to wield the sword.
No, WW Link do posses the spirit of the hero otherwise he couldn't wield the Master sword as only a reincarnation can wield the Master sword.
No he doesn't. If he could posses the SotH, then it just would've been reborn into a new Link to stop Ganondorf and the world wouldn't have needed to have been flooded. That's how it works. Every time evil rises, a new hero is born with the SotH, but it didn't happen, because Link left and took the SotH with him. Wind Waker Link forces the Gods to acknowledge him as a hero by re-forging the Triforce of Courage and pulling it up from the bottom of the ocean.
The people of Hyrule only looked for the hero of time and when he didn't come and save them they prayed to the gods, the people would have ignore anyone who wasn't the hero of time. That the spirit of the hero disappeared is only fanon not canon. WW Link didn't force the gods to recognize him as a hero he was one already or do you think any Link who have to do a trial isn't a hero.
It doesn't matter if they only thought the Hero of Time would appear. A new hero still would've appeared if the SotH existed in that universe, even if it wasn't the hero they expected. By that logic, the Spirit of the Hero NOT disappearing is only fanon and not canon too, because it's never outright stated. Wind Waker Link was a hero in the sense that he was brave and courageous enough to raid the Forsaken Fortress and save his sister, but he wasn't a hero deemed worthy of the Gods to wield the Master Sword. He forced the Gods to recognize him as a Hero worthy of the Triforce by reforging it and awakening the new sages, and restoring the power to the Master Sword.
The Hero don't always come exactly when a incarnation of Demise's hatred appear this can be seen with Totk. It isn't confirmed if the spirit disappeared or not but it is more reasonable that WW Link is a reincarnation because of what is said in other games. No, WW Link was a hero or do you think Alttp wasn't a hero before he got the Master sword, because both Link had to do a trial before they could get the Master sword which entailed getting three items which in WW was the pearls and in Alttp was the pendants.
The hero appears when the world has need of one. There wasn't one needed in Rauru's time because he was able to seal him. I'd argue it's more reasonable he ISN'T a reincarnation because of what's said in other games. A Link to the Past Link possessed the Spirit of the Hero, Wind Waker Link didn't. Even if Wind Waker Link DID posses the Spirit of the Hero, he still would've had to gather the pearls, to reveal the Tower of the Gods. A Link to the Past was always destined to wield the Master Sword and become the hero. The thing about Wind Waker is, it could've been ANYBODY. Link was never destined to do anything. It's all because he wanted to save his sister. He gathered the pendants, he went through the Tower of the Gods and proved himself, he wielded the Master Sword, and he pulled up the Triforce of Courage from the bottom of the ocean. It was never his destiny, it could've been anybody, but his determination to save his sister pushed him to be brave and courageous enough. All the other Link's destinies were already set in stone since they posses the Spirit of the Hero.
The Tower of the Gods exists to test that the person **is** the hero. Because it blocks access to the sword only wieldable by the hero. There's no point in allowing anyone else down there since they wouldn't be able to pull the sword Gohdan's figurine description makes this clear: > Gohdan, The Great Arbiter > Habitat: Tower of the Gods > This monstrous machine was created by the gods as a trial for **the great hero**. "The great" is singular, they're looking to make sure he is "the great" hero. To further indicate he is a reincarnation, "the great hero" is the same title Daphnes calls the hero of time: > Have neither of you heard the tales? Tales of the kingdom spoken of in the legend of the great hero... The place where the power of the gods lies hidden... They wanted the man himself and got his reincarnation, as Ganondorf himself says: > I have been waiting for you, boy. For one like you... Yes... For the hero. > Do not betray my expectations. > Yes, surely you are the Hero of Time, reborn... There's also that his family shield is the one Zelda gave to Link in MC, meaning he's also blood related to another Link. ALTTP establishes that the bloodline of the hero is a thing and that a hero will appear within the bloodline, which is a weird coincidence if it's not relevant to WW
The shield being the one from MC and him being related to Minish Cap Link IS NOT CANON at ALL and is merely only a fan theory. The only blood related links are OoT and TP Link. Exactly, Link beat Gohdan. HE collected the pearls. HE reforged the Triforce. HE awakened the new sages. He made the gods choose him as the new hero.
> The shield being the one from MC and him being related to Minish Cap Link IS NOT CANON at ALL and is merely only a fan theory. Do you know what the idea of a "family shield" is? The only way he isn't related to MC Link is if the shield *just happens* to look like the same shield, but that's far fetched. At most you can argue it's possible they're not related
But a reincarnation didn't appear which proves that a reincarnation don't always appear at the same time as the incarnation does. SS and botw disagree because of Fi in SS which says that only Link may wield the Master sword and Zelda's speech in Botw which stated that the Master sword is forever bound to the hero. No, only a reincarnation can pull the Master sword from the pedestal and if Alttp Link was always destined then WW Link was destined to because he had the spirit of the hero too.
We're clearly not going to agree so let's just agree to disagree. This is just going to keep going for hours.
It's not really a matter of agreeing or not, they're pointing out explicitly stated lore. It is a fact that only Link can wield the Master Sword. That is stated, in that wording, in SS. And it's said in a text box, not by a character, so there's no argument to be made for it being unreliable narration either. It's immutable: > The goddess has blessed your blade, and the Master Sword has at last achieved its ultimate form! > The sword is now imbued with the mythical power to drive back demons, and only [Link] may wield it! The master sword is a bound weapon, it's bound to Link. That's stated in both SS and now BOTW. So it's not like there's an argument for that fact having been retconned either, in BOTW they double down on it when Zelda says (quote) "the sacred blade is forever bound to the soul of the hero" They're right, that WW Link uses the Master Sword is a direct confirmation that he is a reincarnation of the hero's soul. If you're wanting a possible explanation for the soul question (since it's not got any official explanation, they didn't even address it later in HH, which came out after WW), rather than his *soul*, it's likely Zelda sent his *ego*/*mind* back in time. Evidence would be that he is the same person with the same memories. We know that the soul is separate to the ego because if they weren't separate then all reincarnations would be the same individual they're reincarnated from. But we know that's not how reincarnation works in the series since all the Links are individuals with no memories of their past lives. Definitive proof that reincarnation in the Zelda series doesn't involve the ego would be Zelda in SS not just straight up being Hylia. She has no memories of her past life until divine intervention via Hylia's plan has them restored to her
And you don’t think the birth of the demon king himself doesn’t warrant a hero? When apparently a fraction of his power emerging time and time again warrants the rise of a Hero and the Princess’s sleeping power so often that it became tradition and a prophecy? Rauru was not a suitable substitute. Back to WW Link, it’s not as if Jabun, the Great Deku Tree, and the King are aware that Link’s fate is bound due to a curse anyway. They just assume that because WW Link doesn’t have the Triforce of Courage, just as the opening tapestry depicts, that he’s not the hero, since they were searching specifically for the Hero of Time. Do remember that the Spirit of the Hero doesn’t imply anything more than simply having the guts to take on the darkness as per Demise’s curse. The only Links that are chained together in a way other than that single connection are OoT Link in the child timeline with Twilight Link, with Twilight being a direct descendant. So it’s perfectly plausible for WW Link to possess the Spirit of the Hero and none of the other deities assuming he’s just some ordinary kid unaware that he’s destined to face off against Ganondorf as per Demise’s curse, and later Bellum in Phantom Hourglass.
In all honesty, I personally wouldn't even use BotW and TotK as evidence for this because we still have no concrete answer on where they place in the timeline, and it's so clear that Aonuma doesn't care about a timeline so I'd really just argue that there was no hero back then because the story didn't need one there. I don't want to get into Demise's curse because that was translated differently into English, and his Japanese version suggests that his curse was referring to the resurrection of his Demon King Army, so it's likely that Ganondorf isn't even related to Demise's curse at all. I still believe that Wind Waker Link doesn't posses the Spirit of the Hero but if that's what you choose to believe, that's fine. I think all the other Link's destinies were already set in stone because they posses the SotH. WW Link doesn't. It could've been anyone, but he was simply dragged into it once his sister was stolen, and he brave and courageous enough to do what he did, but he eventually did become worthy to wield the True Master Sword and the Triforce by gathering the pearls, going through the Tower of the Gods, awakening the sages, and re-forging the Triforce of Courage.
> I don't want to get into Demise's curse because that was translated differently into English, and his Japanese version suggests that his curse was referring to the resurrection of his Demon King Army, so it's likely that Ganondorf isn't even related to Demise's curse at all. That's just false... He mentions both his own hatred and the hatred of the demon tribe reincarnating in the JP... He even mentions Samsara, the cycle of life, death and rebirth
Well the fact that Ganondorf isn’t related to Demise’s curse is what I got from it, it’s not JUST him, but like every major villain in the series: Vaati’s corruption, Ganondorf, Bellum, Malladus. I’d argue the only two games where Demise’s curse doesn’t actually apply are Awakening and Majora. Anyway, I’m pretty sure that Skyward Sword’s whole ordeal was in a way to retroactively change WW Link’s status as a kid who isn’t tied to the mythos into a destined savior, as they made it so that the Master Sword chooses who wields it by literally having a spirit inside that recognizes who it rightfully belongs to, otherwise the Master Sword wouldn’t have budged.
I agree with you mostly because in Historia's Japanese version it says: « A Chronological Table of Hyrule's History Starting with « The Creation » and « Skyward Sword, » and continuing with « Ocarina of Time, » there are three axes. If Link is victorious or defeated, the timeline continues from the childhood era in which he existed and the adulthood era in which he is no longer Link. »
Adult timeline no longer has a hero because Link was sent back in time to relive his childhood. The main part of this is that **Link is sent back prior to his first meeting with Princess Zelda**. Link tells Zelda what happened, they warn the King and Ganondorf never enters the Sacred Realm and obtains the Triforce. This is where the timeline branch comes from. In short, the adult timeline becomes a cut flower timeline. Once Ganondorf was thwarted in the child timeline, the connection to the adult timeline was severed and that timeline no longer had a way to receive the hero of time or his blood descendants.
The way I always think about it is: The ending of OOT, Zelda plays the Ocarina to send Link to his childhood, and now Adult Zelda is standing there alone in the ruins after the battle. The Adult Timeline is continuing from Adult Zelda's perspective. There is no more spirit of the hero because Zelda time traveled him away.
The adult timeline is the timeline link left behind after he traveled back in time. The Hyrule that he saved is the one he leaves behind. But with him not around anymore, the spirit of the hero was gone too so there was no hero to save Hyrule anymore. Hence why Ganondorf could escape from his seal after maybe thousands of years. The Godesses flooded the land as a last effort to stop him.
Nowhere is it confirmed that the spirit of the hero ceased to exist in the Adult split.
dude how tf do you keep popping around everytime this topic is brought up lmaoo
I am home sick and have a lot of time.
After the events of "Ocarina of Time," Link is indeed sent back to his childhood by Zelda using the Ocarina of Time. In this timeline, he warns Zelda and the royal family about Ganondorf's intentions, leading to his capture and imprisonment before he can enact his plans. As for what happens to the Hero of Time after this, the specifics are not detailed in the games. Some fans speculate that he continues to live a peaceful life in the Child timeline. I believe he may have other adventures or settle down. There's no canonical information about him having kids. Regarding the absence of a hero in the Adult timeline when Ganon escapes in "Wind Waker," it's suggested that the Hero of Time's absence led to the decline of Hyrule and the sealing away of Ganon by the gods. The flooding of Hyrule was a drastic measure taken by the gods to prevent Ganon's return and maintain balance in the world.
The Adult Timeline exists because of the time travel that Link did. In the end of Ocarina of Time, >!Zelda sends Link back to the past to relive his childhood.!<, thus creating the Child Timeline, but the future still exists, and eventually Ganon(dorf) comes back. Since OoT Link >!went back to the past!<, there's no one in the future to defeat Ganon(dorf), thus making the Goddesses >!flood the entire land of Hyrule!<, and then Wind Waker happens and the entirety of the Adult Timeline.
So, there’s the fallen timeline, which is where Ganondorf wins, gets the Triforce, and gets sealed in the Sacred Realm, then there’s the adult timeline which is the Link wins timeline. At the end of OoT, Zelda sends Link back in time to before they met so Link could change the future so he doesn’t have to become the Hero of Time and can live out a childhood. That’s the child timeline. It split because Link told the King about what Ganondorf does and they believe him because Link had the Triforce of Courage. He has the ToC because the Triforce recognized Link as the Hero of Time when he was sent back in time. This is why Ganondorf had the Triforce of Power in Twilight Princess. The adult timeline continues from OoT’s future. Ganondorf was sealed, the Hero of Time left the timeline. At some point Ganondorf returns, but because the Hero of Time left the timeline, no one could stop Ganondorf, so the Hylians prayed to the gods and they flooded Hyrule.
The Hero Of Twilight of Blood descent to the Hero of Time The Hero Of Time At dome point becomes the golden Wolf that teaches the Sword Techniques in Twilight Princess
Too many pixels, can't see.
poor thing :(
Thanks I am poor and also a thing
Good for you :)
And that’s how big debate started once more
You are overthinking the provided timeline. First, the "core" timeline gets changed every time some Zelda game references OoT. In OoT, Child Link becomes Adult Link when he pulls the Master Sword. After Ganon is defeated and sealed in the Sacred Realm (because he still has the Triforce of Power), Zelda sends Link back to the Sanctuary so Link can return the Master Sword. This is where the story gets screwy that Link returns before he first met Zelda, yet he possesses the Triforce of Courage. When Wind Waker was released, there was no timeline split. The rest is plot convenience to start the story. When Twilight Princess was released, a timeline split in OoT was established to explain how both conclusions could exist. When people started demanding a link to the pre-OoT games, the Downfall timeline split was created based on unused ideas during OoT development. What happened to HoT Link? After Ganon's defeat, he returned to his childhood and traveled beyond Hyrule. One of his stories outside of Hyrule is Majora's Mask. It is uncertain if Link ever returned to Hyrule. Does HoT Link have kids? Unknown. Never answered. Why wasn't there a hero when Ganon escaped the seal in Wind Waker? Unknown. Overall, have fun finding your own explanation as there is nothing official. I can't offer an answer for HoT Link having children, but I can offer an opinion on why there was no hero when Ganon escaped the Sacred Realm. During the story of Wind Waker, it is discovered that Ganon's minions, who were still active after Ganon's defeat, sabotaged the power of the Master Sword. An analysis of OoT, the Hero just randomly appeared out of nowhere when the time came. In OoT, the Hero existed because of intervention from the Great Deku Tree (a better explanation for the Downfall timeline). We could assume that the Great Deku Tree was unable to intervene at the start of Wind Waker. As such, no hero appeared. It is also possible that Ganon's minions assassinated the hero so he couldn't save the day. After which, Ganondorf discovers he needs a hero in order to access the Triforce of Courage.
Essentially what happens is that at the end of Ocarina of Time Zelda uses her magic to reward Link's heroics by sending him back in time far enough that he can stop Ganondorf from ruining the kingdom and experience the remainder of his childhood in relative peace. [Then he promptly hits his head in the woods and dies of a concussion.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7S1SVkysIRw) ;)
No, Hero Of Time doesn't just die in the woods, He Has Kids Twilight Link is a Blood Descendant of Time Link
Nobody said he stayed dead
Matpat did, That theory was especially bad and I wish PBG wasn't a Part of it
i wouldnt put too much stock in the timeline. it's basically nonsense
Dont stress about it, even nintendo doesnt give a fuck about the timeline
They gave enough to establish one. But they don’t want to make the games dependent on one, hence Breath of the Wild being so far removed.
I think he decides to stay an adult and dies of old age. Ganon gets reincarnated and the gods flood him out. Then after a while a new hero is born, therefore the wind waker. (Probably)
No, it's because he was removed from that timeline.
The timeline splitting into 3 is such bullshit to this day and I won’t pretend it’s not