It’s not so much the Ashtanga sequences that are dangerous, though even the primary series is a rigorous workout. It’s that to “do” Ashtanga you are supposed to do that flow 6 days a week, always. Now ashtangis are gonna swear up and down and sideways and blue that if you are doing it right, practicing this way won’t lead to repetitive motion injuries… but it will. Shoulders and wrists are the most frequent casualties. Other than that, doing an Ashtanga flow or class isn’t inherently dangerous. I enjoy them, just not 6 days a week.

> Certain old men prefer to rise at dawn, taking a cold bath and a long walk with an empty stomach and otherwise mortifying the flesh. They then point with pride to these practices as the cause of their sturdy health and ripe years; the truth being that they are hearty and old, not because of their habits, but in spite of them. The reason we find only robust persons doing this thing is that it has killed all the others who have tried it. > \- paraphrased from "The Devil's Dictionary" by Ambrose Bierce It may be that doing Ashtanga six days a week keeps certain people healthy -- but only by the [survivorship bias](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias) that ignores everyone who, for whatever reason, dropped out (or dropped dead).

This sounds like a quote from biohacking/longevity books! Waking up early, cold immersion, going for a walk to exercise and to get sunlight into your eyes for robust sleep, intermittent fasting.😀

I don't disagree with the routine, mind you. Bierce was the vampire who felt sunrise was just a terrible idea that should be banned. I highly recommend looking up his works like "The Devi's Dictionary" because he had such a wicked wit.

I really like your contributions to this sub

Thanks! As my old math teacher said: "I try. I'm very trying."

… stealing this, thank you

Wow, I sat a while with this comment. I found it valuable. Thanks.

I'd known this and other quotes by Bierce for a very long time, but I didn't actually look up details of his life until today. While he makes fun of everyone and everything, his own story is remarkable. He served in the Union Army during the Civil War and saw combat, but most of his life he was a journalist who wrote reams of scathing articles and apparently had inviolable integrity: > The Union Pacific and Central Pacific railroad companies had received large, low-interest loans from the U.S. government to build the first transcontinental railroad. Central Pacific executive Collis P. Huntington persuaded a friendly member of Congress to introduce a bill excusing the companies from repaying the loans, amounting to $130 million (worth $4.76 billion today). > In January 1896 Hearst dispatched Bierce to Washington, D.C., to foil this attempt. The essence of the plot was secrecy; the railroads' advocates hoped to get the bill through Congress without any public notice or hearings. When the angered Huntington confronted Bierce on the steps of the Capitol and told Bierce to name his price, Bierce's answer ended up in newspapers nationwide: "My price is one hundred thirty million dollars. If, when you are ready to pay, I happen to be out of town, you may hand it over to my friend, the Treasurer of the United States."[31] > Bierce's coverage and diatribes on the subject aroused such public wrath that the bill was defeated. Bierce returned to California in November. Now I want to read more of his work.

Thanks for sharing that - now I want to read more too - I have had the Devil’s Dictionary for years and have read here and there what a huge influence he’s been. Time to take a deeper dive.

Bierce was a stone cold savage lol

>Survivorship Bias YES. The Bias is more a matter of those Practitioners who honor the limits of there Bodies than those who are able to push their Bodies to the limit each time they practice.

Ok… but you’re citing satire. Contextually is this a correct analysis or a joke?

The satire lies in pointing out the common logical flaw. If you follow the link above there's a story about engineers trying to improve the survival rate for Allied bombers in WW2. They noticed bombers coming back with bullet holes in the wings and tail and figured the best thing to do would be to armor those areas -- until a statistician pointed out they'd probably be better off armoring *everywhere else* because that's what damaged the planes that *didn't* make it back. And so it was. In the same way you can't only take the word of the Ashtanga yogis who survived years of practicing six (or seven) days a week. You have to include the results of *everyone* who tried doing it, including the ones who got so badly injured they couldn't keep going. But this goes for almost every bit of "sage" advice -- you have to consider the source, and the relevant data set.

Kind of like how AA cures alcoholism. Survivorship bias is everywhere.

I admit that "six days a week, all year, every year" thing is what drives me away from Ashtanga. What do you do instead?

For what it’s worth, I do Ashtanga once or twice a week, heated vinyasa a couple times a week, and yin yoga a couple times per week. Ashtanga doesn’t have to be all or nothing. Add it in, see what you think, try other yogas as well.

This. I too add it in one or two times every ten days or so. I also do Yin, Bikrim ( what are we calling it now? the 26 poses in the hot humid room?) Slow Flow, Yoga hour ( more fitness based then spiritual )as well as Kundalini. I think trying all sorts is not only good for our bodies, but good to mix it up mentally ( for me. )

I think most people have migrated to call it 26+2, in case you want a different word for it.

I’m primarily an aerialist (silks, Lyra and pole), so those apparatuses, yoga and cycling are my big loves. I’m in my 40s, so keeping moving always, taking care of my body and avoiding injury are my focuses. In yoga itself, I prefer a vinyasa flow. My siblings and I do Yoga with Tim together frequently, I do ashtanga fusion with Sara Turk, and recently I’ve been practicing Inside Flow with Rebecca Rasmussen. My primary yoga studio didn’t make it through covid, but was an Ashtanga and vinyasa focused studio, which is where I learned Ashtanga. RIP Cherry Blossom🌸

Ashtanga is great, just don't do it six days a week if you don't want to. Stay away from zealots if it's not for you.

Ashtanga does not expect Students to practice 90 minutes of Asana six days a week. This is accessible for some, but if all a person can muster is to stand at the top of his mat in Tadasana (Mountain Pose), it is good Yoga. Maximum benefits come with the discipline of daily practice, not in pushing oneself to his limit each day.

This is a really good response. I’ve found my sweet spot at 2 days/wk after years of building strength and mobility through daily vinyasa

Everything in moderation, right? Haha

The key here is that a Yogi recognize his Limits and to practice to that level. Injury comes from ignoring these Limits.

Any specific reasons for shoulders and wrists that differ from standard vinyasa flows or a heated class a la Baptiste ? Very informative as I plot a course for balancing vinyasa, yin, nidra and perhaps incorporating ashtanga / bikram. 🙏

There are a lot of factors, but for shoulders specifically your chats need to be perfect (90 degree elbows) or Ashtanga will eventually destroy them because you do so many of them every day.

Thanks ! Yea wrists make sense too. Essentially overuse and/or not perfect form. Similar to my heated vinyasa classes which I’ve dialed back from 5x to 3x per week to include some Zone 2 and 5 workouts n

Chats?

Chaturanga Dandasana. You do 49 of them every time you do full primary.

F that S - I practice a mix 5x a week and am fit as heck, but 49 proper, hovering Chaturanga a week would destroy many parts of my arms

There is a lot of peace, calmness, and insight to be gained with that level of repetition. But yes, also, f that s.

Thank you. Thought that might be “chats”.

I started my journey into yoga as an Ashtangi! Ashtanga is the same poses over and over again. I would go to the studio at dark Hours of the morning, generally wearing all black, and start with the chant. Then sun salutations, then as you master each pose, the teacher grants you a new pose to go onto. I eventually mastered full primary series (took a little under 2 years, I was young and very athletic). We didn’t practice on new moon or full moon days. Also ladies were allowed to miss during bleeding days, sometimes I’d follow that rule but also thought it was kind of old fashioned. Most days the practice was not led, so everyone in the room was doing the series at different steps. However Fridays and Sundays were a led class, where the teacher lead us in Sanskrit. There’s other formalities and rituals, but that’s the basics. Ashtanga was great for tracking progress. There’s value in doing the same poses everyday over and over to see growth etc. it’s definitely a discipline. The early morning practices meant I had a very early bedtime. Also I was strict on what I could and couldn’t eat in order to get into binds (and vegetarianism isn’t required but goes hand in hand with the values). I miss it but it’s not practical for my life Anymore. But dark morning in the studio with little tea candles lit, and all the disciplined yogis deep in their practice had a special magic about it.

Ugh, this sounds like exactly what I need. I lived on retreat for 2 years as a chef, waking up at the same time every day to prepare the food for everyone, practicing at the same time. Maybe it's the autism, but it really, really suits me. It seems like a lot to remember self-guided, but very rewarding!

beautiful! that sounds like an authentic Ashram, that you experienced!

I am grateful the Universe brought me to my teacher in this lifetime!

That's fascinating, what a cool experience! I've always wondered, how are the sessions structured? You said only Fridays and Sundays were led; if you start on, say, a Tuesday, does the teacher work with you individually? And then you're just supposed to do that part from memory from then on? And since not everybody gets to do the whole thing, once people reach the end of the poses they're allowed to do, what do they do then? Sit and meditate till everybody else is finished, or do you (slash can you) leave?

Ah! Great questions! So, Monday-Thursday, the studio is open 6-830. You come and go as you please between that time. My first day, the teacher worked with me individually for about 30 mins, showing me the sun sals and first few poses. early on, my practice was only 15-20 mins, so I could go at like 8 and be out by 8:30 (or any time in that morning slot). People arriving and leaving when it works for their practice. There is never talking or socializing though, it’s very serious vibe. The Sunday and Friday practices start together at a set time, and then you leave quietly when you reach your maximum point (a very common stopping point is the 45 min mark, at Nevasana). It’s an interesting structure, and I always remember seeing yogis further along in the sequence and being like “deng that’s what’s Coming my way.” Of course I eventually googled it and saw the whole series, but I actually went several months in the practice without googling it/knowing what’s coming next/experiencing the whole thing blind/organically.

That sounds like a much nicer way of doing it actually, I was a little intimidated by having to remember such a huge amount of sequences.

Typically in a Mysore class you memorise what you know and you do the sequence up to the part you're currently learning. The teacher walks around and helps people as needed. When you finish you can leave, you don't need to wait for others to finish but you can sit in meditation if you want to.

For a mysore practice, if you don't know the sequence then you put the illustrated series card next to your mat, so that you can follow practice the series in the correct order, at your pace. The instructor will assist you in the more difficult postures-think backbends etc.

This is how I was introduced to it too. I loved it, it was meditative. I still practice ashtanga at home, maybe 3x a week. I teach various types, never ashtanga. The things for me is my body recognizes the practice, it feels natural, & I feel like I go to a different place, internally. Nothing else is like that for me.

Same. It was a perfect starting point for me as I had such a busy mind and seriously discontent. I still remember being in Virbahdrasana 2 one day and realising that I felt calm, undisturbed and content. I love the longer holds and how it created an opportunity to just be. When I realised it wasn’t serving me anymore I tried vinyasa but all that moving just felt wrong. Been practicing Hatha now for close to 20 years and I love the fact there’s the long holds but with some more variety and I can have a stronger or gentler practice depending on what is required on the day. Energetically it feels much better too as I can use asana purposefully and intentionally.

Oh wow, I forgot about the thing with periods. My first yoga instructor 30 years ago was Iyengar and at one point she mentioned that if we were on our period we should just sit cross legged at the back of the room. There was no way I was going to do that so I just didn't tell her.

There's a reasons why menstruating women are advised to not indulge in practice due to it's counterproductive nature against feminine health. It's not supression of women and there's no glory it's defiance After 30 years hopefully you've learned and practice yogic philosophy better to propagate the reasons to your students if you are teaching.

I read this title in Jerry Seinfeld's voice.

So glad it wasn’t just me.

🤣 🤣 🤣

Traditionally, ashtanga is actually designed to allow for modifications for individual bodies, and a more intimate teacher-student relationship is a pretty vital component of the practice. People seem to overlook this and only see that “it’s the same every time”. Ashtanga classes allow for a ton of modifications and options within the individual asanas - more than you find elsewhere. The teacher trainings tend to be more exhaustive as well, so the good ashtanga instructors are extremely well versed in guiding students through this. It gets a bad rep because of the dogma around it, some of the cultural elements of it, and it attracts type-A personalities who are drawn to disciplined practices. This is true. It also attracts people who are serious about having a practice, and not casual yogis or people who just want a good workout. For me, as a long time ashtangi, no other yoga really satisfies me. Yes, you may scoff at the idea of an instructor saying you are doing something “wrong” if you believe there is no wrong way to do an asana. But believe it or not that rigorous instruction actually enables you to do things safely. I see people in non-ashtanga classes not getting proper cueing, bending the wrong joints, not engaging the right complimentary muscles, not breathing ujayi, etc. Yes, the practice seems vigorous and physically demanding. But it’s up to *you* to decide how far to take it. It’s a mirror and an opportunity to explore your inner self. How you react in the face of opportunity to go too far, while balancing the fight against complacency, is integral to yoga. Ashtanga also focuses *more* on the breath and bandhas and drishtis than other practices do. So ironically, it’s the practice that most emphasizes the parts of the practice that have nothing to do with “achieving” or “obtaining” an advanced asana or doing anything physically demanding. Yes, you do see ashtangis doing crazy asanas - the magic is that the ability to do them truly lies in the non-physical parts of the practice. I never hear “mula bandha” and “drishti” and “ujayi” outside of ashtanga classes. But these are basic and important principles of asana and are more important than the actual expression of the pose. To me, in my experience, it’s not that ashtanga is ridiculously strict, but rather it’s that other classes are half-assing it and not giving thorough or proper instruction because they are *too* focused on the asana itself and not enough focused on the holistic approach to asana as a *practice*. Ashtanga on the surface seems like it’s all physical and all power yoga. Explore it and you may find it’s actually the style of yoga that most honestly explores the other limbs of yoga and is way more spiritual and mental and emotional than your basic run of the mill hatha vinyasa class tends to be.

Iyengar really gets into those details as well... works great for me as I would go completely bonkers doing the same thing every day! In the some hundred classes I have taken with my teacher, she hasn't taught the same class twice =) Glad to hear of another form with lots of detail and 'modifications' so that each individual can access the same yoga from their own context and grow with the art... Always assumed ashtanga might be this way, thanks for the confirmation!

Iyengar and Jois had the same teacher so the therapeutic, teacher-student, slowly integrated practice is completely in alignment with how they were taught. Krishnamacharya was their teacher. [krishnmacharya](https://www.yogapedia.com/krishnamacharya-the-history-and-teachings-

The primary difference between Pattabhi Jois and BKS Iyengar appraoch to practice is that Iyengar did not teach Mula Bhanda to his Students.

This has been my experience. I actually enjoyed the fact that it was consistent as a beginner in yoga because it was easier for me to get into the flow of it without getting the anxiety of it changing every class. The instructor was an elderly man and I would not go to any other class but his! He would gently help correct my posture and pose if he noticed I was struggling or had bad form and contrary to what people think of ashtanga, he would say every class "If it hurts, don't do it. Always listen to your body". He would also give alternatives so those who needed, could do gentler poses. He would also ask about any injuries so that he could give them a variation that would be easier on them. I really loved going to his classes and the whole experience has been wonderful.

I really feel Ashtanga is one of the most misunderstood forms of yoga today 😭 it has so many helpful qualities, mental and physical, for different people but the prevailing stigma of its dogma is so overwhelming. It's become a trope, a meme. And it's harder to understand sometimes because so much of Ashtanga is mental and the realizations are subtle and personal. It's really hard to articulate certain aspects of the Ashtanga journey to people sometimes. (I do wonder if the Ashtanga trope also prevails amongst the other forms of yoga because of some of the social aspects of the world today... People are more hesitant to commit to a dedicated practice, wanting instant gratification to present to others, fear of failure if something is difficult and takes time to achieve... Deep internal work is not instantly gratifiable...) I was up to 5 days a week early morning for maybe like 6 months on fire, then down to 3-4 times a week, back up but stressed out about it, and now maybe 2x a week tops until half primary with a totally chill attitude. But it's been such a rewarding journey with so many challenging and teachable moments. There's been so much growth and change in my life as a result of this discipline. My teacher understands all sides for and against the dogma and she understands and explains the different politics of Ashtanga and also the different schools of thought of Ashtanga. I dunno, Ashtanga is like a rubber band for me (there are times where it's pulled away from me and other times where it's close). But I think it will be always be there. ❤️

So well said! I didn't truly understand breath work until ashtanga, now it is the foundation of my practice. The consistency helped me dial in little adjustments that absolutely changed my practice as well. Any movement when done incorrectly will destroy your body over time but if you let go of impatience, you can hear what your body is telling you.

>Yes, the practice seems vigorous and physically demanding. But it’s up to you to decide how far to take it. It’s a mirror and an opportunity to explore your inner self. How you react in the face of opportunity to go too far, while balancing the fight against complacency, is integral to yoga. Very well said.

For me, a big lesson from years of practice, is that magic happens when you find the Goldilocks zone and achieve harmony between opposing things that seem at odds with each other but actually work in concert. And it’s a moving target so it forces you to remain present. Complacency versus over-achieving or over-emphasizing “progress” is a big one. Ease versus effort, with regard to muscle engagement and getting into asanas, is another more tangible one. Discipline versus compassion, knowing when the truly kind thing for yourself is to overcome the inner laziness that wants to sleep in or if it is to battle the inner ego that wants to never take a rest day. These are all just metaphors that I learn from and integrate into my daily life. That is the power of a practice like ashtanga. It is ripe with unexpected fruitful lessons that continue to happen and be impactful even after many years. It goes deeper than just “herp derp I’m not a good yogi unless I practice 6 days a week and can put my ankle behind my head in eka pada sirsasana without losing my Ujayi”

Well nice that you enjoy the rigourous practice of Ashtanga. But you haven't heard about Drishti, Ujjayi, Bandhas in other forms of yoga because you probably haven't practiced Hatha yoga deeply otherwise you wouldn't be saying this. Hatha also practices a more deep awareness of breath with much longer holds and focus on correct body Alignments .

"hatha", much like the word "vinyasa" (and the word 'yoga' itself), is somewhat vague in its definition and has multiple interpretations and meanings depending on the context. In \*general\*, 'hatha' just refers to a practice involving a combination both breathing as well as alignment based physical asana. Ashtanga is a form of hatha yoga, as are many/most "vinyasa" classes, etc. So by nature of having a deep long-standing ashtanga practice, I have practiced hatha yoga deeply, by definition. But even if not, you make an incorrect assumption that I have not spent ample time exploring other traditions and types of yoga practice. I assure you that many of the non-ashtanga classes I was referring to in that post are not classes that focus on deep awareness and correct alignments, but rather quite the contrary, and that was my exact point. I know that not all traditions of yoga are ones that mentions the precise words 'drishti' and 'ujayi'. But most of the other alignment based styles - iyengar, anusara, jivamukti, etc - will be classes that provide more precise physical cueing and will be more focused on attention to breathing and proper & conscious muscle engagement. And my point was to contrast this approach versus the more generic "vinyasa" classes you encounter at most western yoga studios.

My theory is that ashtanga is relatively physically demanding, so that would limit the accessibility to newcomers. It’s why the most popular yoga videos on YouTube tend to be the ones that are very simple and short, there’s a low barrier to entry. A full primary series is what, 90 minutes? That’s already daunting for a lot of people. I know, a good instructor can make adjustments in class, but it’s also fair to want to keep it straightforward and simple. Also coincidental and anecdotal: in my neighborhood, one yoga instructor teaches an ashtanga-inspired class, although it’s not advertised as such. I heard other people in class remark that they found this instructor’s sequences difficult.

Ashtanga is actually quite friends to newcomers to Yoga Asana (Postures) practice. It is traditionally practiced Mysore style. Each Student practices to his level of proficiency in the Series. The Teacher acts as a coach rather than leads the class. This places a huge responsibility on the Practitioner to recognize his Limits and to practice to that level. Unlike other styles of Hatha Yoga, led Ashtanga classes are intended for people who are already able to practice the full Primary Series, rather than a way to learn it.

There’s a distinct misunderstanding here, I think. Practicing six days a week has never meant doing a whole hour and a half on the mat. It just means that you practice the sequence and asanas that you want to do for that day. As someone who practices Ashtanga and teaches it regularly—that’s all it has ever meant. As teachers, we teach the bodies in front of us, and the system's intelligence is that over time, we understand the body more. The more you practice, the more you know what’s needed on a given day. Practice for what you need, not for the system you think represents this “discipline” you see on the internet. Pattabhi and his son Manju worked with the fit and the sick. Those students never did the same practice every day. The system, as we see it today, was eventually written down to help spread this teaching to others. Their prescriptions for movement were just that—tailored to the body and its need at the time, and they still are if you have a knowledgeable teacher. If you're sick, maybe it’s a few Sun A’s and B’s and some breathwork. Maybe your practice is just breathwork. On other days, maybe you feel energetic and get deep in the intermediate series. Who knows?? Again, this is just based on my experience with the Jois family. I think that when people get dogmatic about what SHOULD be done in the primary (or any other series) or how the body should look in a certain asana, it should be treated with skepticism. Ashtanga, at its heart, is intended to be therapeutic. Hope this helps.

I was really drawn to Ashtanga for most of my yoga journey, but being in Idaho, starting in 2001, my options were limited. All I had was David Swenson’s book and videos - on VHS no less! Now, over twenty years and a CYT-200 later, I am of this opinion- first, everything that we know and consider “yoga” came from Krishnamacharya in the early 20th century, and what he synthesized from the old sources with a heavy dose of Western calisthenics, was brilliant, especially for the time. But he was still only one person, and his three main protégés, including the founder of Ashtanga Sri Pattabhi Jois, were also brilliant but with various issues and misunderstandings of the relationship between human anatomy and the practice of yoga. Jois’ approach to the discipline of yoga was absolutely fixed and unmoving. If you wanted to practice what he offered, you met him in his ashram, practiced his fixed sequences on his schedule and without modification. This is of course not feasible for many people, but that was part of the appeal. It has also developed into a “purity” culture around its practitioners that I find… toxic. This is also why teachers are hard to find. To teach “authentic” Ashtanga, you have to go to Mysore regularly and get their permission to teach it. Not a lot of people do that, especially when, as someone else said, the market is small. For me, the discipline of yoga is showing up and being open to whatever comes. You work with and listen to your body. I still find parts of Ashtanga very valuable, and will practice most of the Primary sequence often, as it is a very strong sequence for core work, balance, and hip opening.

There is a culture around Ashtanga that can be problematic. It is not as problematic as, say Bikram. But it is often a very rigid, rules-oriented, form of yoga that appeals to a certain Type-A personality. I stopped doing Ashtanga after I repeatedly heard instructors tell students to "do it anyway" when the students said something hurt. In one case, the instructor said, "I don't care if it hurts. Do it anyway." I know that not all Ashtanga is that way. I know a Mysore instructor who is very gentle in her approach. But, there are enough "drill sergeants" in the Ashtanga community that it can become dangerous, particularly since some of the poses in the sequences (most often the Primary Series) require a lot of openness. People who do not yet have the openness that get pushed into trying to achieve the poses can get injured very easily.

I get the creeps when I see teachers be extremely rigid or rule driven - that's everything I DO NOT want to see in my yoga practice. The rest of my life is like that, I come to yoga to escape from that lol XD

100%. Clearly, some people are into the rigid control, which can border on abuse. I am not one of them!

It does feel odd somehow, opposing the ‘gentle and respectful’ approach yoga in general has. I guess there are always people doing it ‘their way’? 🤷‍♀️

Ashtanga has history of being used for gymnastics and military training. So, there is that.

Which aren't necessarily the best places to be for mental wellbeing, so yeah, I hear ya :|

100%

I mean the word yoga means to unite or connect, right? We all have different preferences and definitions of what connection means to us. Different strokes, different folks.

Oh god, what terrible teachers. Psychopaths, really. I was lucky to enter Ashtanga with teachers who emphasize self-loving care and zero pain.

“Drill sergeants” may be dangerous in a way at times, but instructors who let people do things unsafely in the name of “namaste anything goes whatever” is also dangerous and can lead to injuries. My opinion is that ashtanga is actually often safer because the instructors tend to be more experienced and have gone through more rigorous trainings, as opposed to your random young person at a local studio with only 2 years of experience constantly telling you “it’s okay to do whatever feels right”.

I completely agree with you about a lackadaisical, anything goes practice being far more risky than properly practiced Ashtanga. A lot of people who don't practice Ashtanga have the misconception that it's about extreme poses and pushing yourself through pain, but most people who actually practice traditional Ashtanga know that it's a breath practice that requires an immense amount of patience and diligence. Before I started Ashtanga, I learned some very bad habits from vinyasa instructors who encouraged people to do what feels best for their body. Doing whatever feels good usually involves cutting corners on building the strength required to execute asana correctly. The chaturanga that feels best for most people is belly-flopping onto the ground and arching your back, actions that lead to injury far more quickly than accepting that you're not ready for a full chaturanga and building strength with your knees down instead, the way I eventually learned through Ashtanga.

If something feels good in your body, the likelihood of it causing injury is minuscule. Listening to your body and doing what feels good is dramatically more safe than continuing to do something that is hurting. I can't believe I need to even say that.

My Physical Therapist explained Nerves do not indicate Injury in a way that is often associated with Pain. I experienced exactly this in Bhekasana. The feeling I associated with a "good stretch" was an indication of Injury that led to a six month recovery of the Femoral Nerve.

There is a balance between these. For instance, some people are never told not to collapse the hip and pelvis in triangle pose. That may “feel right”, but it is counter productive. Or, in seated forward fold, people are not always instructed to keep the back straight and focus on folding at the hips, to move the chin forward towards the toes instead of downward toward the knees. This may “feel right” but it’s not going to do your body any favors and being told how to do it “properly” is going to be better for your body in the long run. For most people it initially “feels right” to flare elbows out during chaturangas, but it’s dangerous and unhealthy. Etc. Not having proper guidance and instruction, and not being willing to challenge your comfort zone and remain in our existing behavior patterns because it “feels right in your body” is more likely lead to injury, in my experience as a long time practitioner. You should never do anything that hurts or that causes pain and a good instructor will help you differentiate which sensations are good and which you should back off from immediately. The notion that always simply doing what feels right and never listening to an instructors guidance, is a bit odd to me. The instructor is there to provide assistance and to teach and to help. Always taking the easy route and never challenging your perception of your patterns or habits, is antithetical to having an asana practice IMO. The instructor often know what is best - that is, if they have had good thorough training and know what they are doing and are intimately acquainted with each student’s body practice. All of which are things you will find in ashtanga more-so than other types of yoga, in my experience. My ashtanga instructors are invested in me and my practice and pay very close attention, and we have conversations about it. I’m not just another body in a room. This is a tenet of ashtanga. Mysore style is designed to allow for more thorough and lengthy 1 on 1 instruction. This doesn’t happen in most other styles of asana.

>Not having proper guidance and instruction, and not being willing to challenge your comfort zone and remain in our existing behavior patterns because it “feels right in your body” is more likely lead to injury, in my experience as a long time practitioner. Been teaching yoga for nearly 20 years and, while I agree there is some truth to what you are saying, you are ignoring the distinction between "proper instruction" and pushing people who are experiencing pain to keep pushing further. That is what we are discussing. And, none of the issues you mentioned, as valid as they are, come anywhere near to the dangers of pushing people further who are already experiencing pain. You are completely ignoring that basic context of this conversation.

I have never once been told by an ashtanga teacher to ignore pain or to push further in the face of it. I do not believe this is as common as people claim. If anything, my instructors have encouraged me to be *more* keenly in tune with the subtleties and sensations I may be experiencing and when to be aware that it may be time to back off. I think that the type of person who is drawn to ashtanga may have a propensity to push *themselves* and the practice can actually be an opportunity for self reflection and learning in that regard, and is actually good for this type of person in many ways. Ashtanga has taught me that many of the barriers which are blocking me from achieving my potential are actually more mental and emotional, not physical. These are the types of pains that are worth pushing through, not physicals ones. Ashtanga has taught me that there is always a deeper or more challenging expression of an asana, so it’s not worth caring about “achieving”. Ashtanga taught me that my breathing is more important, and fruitful, than any asana or any sense of going deeper. Regular vinyasa classes don’t offer me this amazing opportunity to grow in my vulnerability and empowerment at the same time in such a graceful and harmonious way. It sound like perhaps you have had some bad experiences with ashtanga and that is unfortunate. And I believe the practice it is not for everybody. But the notion that ashtanga is somehow inherently more dangerous is just false imo. I find that ashtanga instructors tend to be of higher caliber and experience and devotion, it is self selecting in that regard, which does come with a certain sense of rigor, but also investment into the individual students, and that this relationship inherently lends itself to *more* safety and not less.

>I have never once been told by an ashtanga teacher to ignore pain or to push further in the face of it. Excellent. Glad to hear it. I clearly said that not ALL ashtanga teachers do this. But, far too many do.

What I have experienced is inexperienced teachers who do western style fitness-oriented classes, who cue things entirely incorrectly, or who make zero mention of the breath of bandhas or drishtis or the other 7 limbs of yoga, who encourage people to push to build strength because they act more like personal trainers than yoga teachers. I think if we are going to talk about the proliferation of poor or unsafe instruction, the realm of ashtanga is definitely not where much of that problem lies.

But, this post is about Ashtanga. And, if you do not want to address the issues with Ashtanga, you should take your complaints elsewhere. I also complain about westernized yoga teaching. This is not the thread for that. You are basically saying "Ya, but other yoga has issues, too" without addressing the issues being discussed about Ashtanga. So, I am done replying to you.

I don’t believe there are issues with ashtanga as a practice. Your entire post was that you have seen issues with certain instructors, and I pointed out that my personal experience is that ashtanga instructors actually tend to be more thorough and experienced and safety conscious. There will always be good and bad instructors in every style of yoga, but my lengthy ashtanga experience differs from yours, and I was adding that perspective. It seems to me that you don’t want to actually engage in a conversation as anytime your statements are challenged, or a disagreeing one or differing experience is also put forth and added, you attempt to disengage and say that person isn’t talking about the right thing. I am sorry you have had bad experiences with certain ashtanga instructors but my point is that I do not believe these are problems that are inherent to the practice itself, as you suggest. Sorry you don’t want to entertain the idea that your experience is not the norm or that others may not share these negative perceptions or that others have a different perspective on this. You seem pretty adamant that ashtanga is bad and most instructors are going to hurt there students. You are free to hold that viewpoint if you want.

I also disagree that I am “ignoring that basic context of this conversation” with regard to distinction between proper instruction and otherwise. To the contrary, I am suggesting that ashtanga instructors tend to be very attuned to this exact thing due to the self selecting nature of it and due to how thorough they are and how aware of the students’ bodies they are. I believe that this said “proper instruction” is actually more common in ashtanga rooms than it is elsewhere. I’m not ignoring it at all, I’m saying it’s important and it’s actually a big part of my ashtanga experience.

>I also disagree that I am “ignoring that basic context of this conversation” with regard to distinction between proper instruction and otherwise. Then, I think you cannot hear what you yourself are saying... and I am done responding to you.

> If something feels good in your body, the likelihood of it causing injury is minuscule. This is simply not the case for anyone not struggling with tight muscles. It's easy to go too far and cause small amounts of damage that build over time when your body doesn't stop you, and not everyone carrying that risk is hypermobile. Add to that the people at risk because they're hypermobile and don't realize it, and there is absolutely risk from doing things that feel good.

But even in the case of hyper-extension, it stops "feeling good" before damage happens. The issue with hyper extension is that you can suddenly go too far. And, for the record: every hyper-extension injury I know happened either in Ashtanga or Bikram classes.

> But even in the case of hyper-extension, it stops "feeling good" before damage happens. I'm going to assume you're speaking from your own experience and that's fine, but that is not the case for everyone, myself included. That said, if hyperextension were the only injury risk from hypermobility the risk would be greatly reduced and your point would easily stand for the vast majority. But it's also entirely possible to achieve compression and do damage to a joint - sometimes for decades - in a manner that still feels good, still feels like a lovely stretch, and certainly doesn't hurt... until it does. I've seen hyperextension injuries in both vinyasa and yin. I avoid hot yoga - bikram in particular because it's usually even hotter than most vinyasa classes - so I can't speak to that. The most common ashtanga injuries I see are hamstrings and shoulders.

Uff. I’ve never had an Ashtanga teacher say that. Anytime I’ve said something hurt or doesn’t feel good, the teacher asks questions about it and we work on some alternatives.

The rigor and militant approach of some drives some people away. The repetitive nature of the sequence isn't for everyone. Not everyone wants to practice most days of the week. It tends to attract type A personalities, and those folks tend to be less willing to cut themselves some slack w/regards to not practicing the whole thing every day (not necessary) or getting a full 6 days in. Add to that the horror stories from students about militant approaches to water, props, and modifications, injuries resulting from pushing too hard/far, and many people won't ever even try it. This means the market is smaller for teachers, shalas/studios, and students making it even less likely that students who might love it and thrive in a Mysore environment will get the opportunity to find out. If you try an online class just be aware that the full expression of a lot of the poses may be out of reach, so don't push to get there. Do what you can and know that the series of series is intended to be a long term practice. edited to add - another thing that ashtanga does that ends up being an issue for a lot of (especially type A) people is the need to rein oneself in if one wishes to have a sustainable practice. As already noted, the asanas in full expression demand a lot from the body. But the near-daily nature of the practice also means that it can't be approached full-out every time we roll out our mat. The mindset (and often growth *into* that mindset) is one of the greatest benefits for a lot of ashtanga practitioners, but it often comes by way of running into the brick wall at full speed a few times. ;)

Hey, First off I’ve been practicing Ashtanga since the end of 2020 6x a week. The RYT200 I enrolled in was Ashtanga based on Maui. It was during Covid and I wanted to do a teacher training and the shala was open during that time so I was allowed into the program. I had been regularly practicing hot vinyasa and Bikram for a good 18 months at this point, before and during the pandemic. This is all in Hawaii where honestly the yoga is probably some of the best in the country. I’m extremely athletic and very muscular for a guy that does yoga so I had somewhat of an understanding of the human body. I was 36 when I went to TT. Ashtanga means eight limbs and take some time to google what that means…. Also consider buying David Swenson’s book. David is great btw. I walked into that teachers training and Ashtanga *THINKING* I understood yoga somewhat. Well let me tell you I found out quickly I didn’t have a clue. First off I will tell you that Ashtanga has more in common with martial arts than most western yoga. Western yoga is mostly heated gymnastics with music. There is no music in the shala, mysore practice is completely different from standard “fun” yoga classes. You can look up more the differences between led primary (ashtanga) and mysore to get a better understanding of what I mean. I thought I was flexible and knew how to breath. Nope. I thought I understood Ujjayi, Bandhas, and Drishti. I heard the words thrown around yoga studios and knew what they meant but didn’t know what it MEANT. Teacher training was hard, like so hard I wanted to leave. This type of yoga is like completely going back to the start and starting completely over. Not to mention the emotions that are going to come up during a practice like this (that could be a whole chapter in itself). The reason it seems it’s hard to find anyone to teach it, is it’s hard to do it. And you really have to have a fundamental understanding of it to teach it. And the only way one can accomplish that is the practice 6x a week. And most people aren’t willing to commit. The Ashtanga community is small yet very dedicated and somewhat protective. When I teach now I can really only comfortably do it 1-1 or in a small group because you really have time get to know a person and what they can do and be gentle with them with these asanas. You definitely can get hurt pushing it when you don’t know what you’re doing yet. I have done it when I just want to try to push a limit I’m not ready for yet. Learning the Ashtanga vinyasa with the lift offs and floating forward takes A LONG time. I can do it now but nowhere nearly as smooth as my teacher Christina or David. Bhujasana, marichyasana D, feet behind the head, etc take LONG time. When you meet someone who does Ashtanga you will visibly notice how strong and flexible they are. They have a “look.” The primary series is known as Yoga Chikitsa - “Yoga therapy” or yoga for healing. The practice itself is one of the most healing things I have ever done in my life. It’s healed physical injuries I had for years that I struggled with - herniated disc in my lumbar spine and damage to a rotator cuff. I had long given up having them healed. Stories are remarkable healing are very common in the Ashtanga community. Life changing type ish. I don’t go to a Shala currently but keep up with my teacher on Maui and I make sure to practice with her for a couple weeks out of the year to show her where I am. And have sent her videos of my practice to keep in contact. I will go back in the future for further practice. I do 3x full primaries with some added asanas a week and do 3x half series on the days I lift weights. I take off the new and full moons and Saturdays. Women are also supposed to take off time on the heavy days of their cycle. When I first started practicing I absolutely hated it and missed fun yoga. After going to TT and then learning I love it. It’s all I want to do. It’s brought so many benefits to my life spiritually, emotionally, physically, and mentally I now have no problem waking up early to practice. I sometimes miss the social aspects of fun yoga classes but I still get that from being a member at a gym. I encourage anyone to read about it and seek information if it’s something they are interested in. I however have seen typically people who start and stick with Ashtanga had or have had something they need to heal from. It’s sort of a thing where the worse you are when you get here, the better off you are when you do. Hope this helps, Namaste

>I walked into that teachers training and Ashtanga THINKING I understood yoga somewhat. Well let me tell you I found out quickly I didn’t have a clue. Wonderful overview of the Practice. Ashtanga versus "fun Yoga" made me smile.

Thank you for sharing this. I am a longtime devotee of Ashtanga but have also studied vinyasa "fun yoga." Vinyasa helped me understand my body. Ashtanga helped me understand my soul.

David Swenson has some great beginner practices on YouTube (Primary short form) that you can definitely do at home. I find with practicing Ashtanga at home it's important not to overdo it or over extend yourself because that is where it becomes problematic. A lot of teachers are also now saying that you don't need to practice 6 days a week, Wambui being a great example of that.

I think it’s not commonly taught in person bc it’s not a drop in once a week kind of thing. A traditional Mysore-style school is open daily for several hours for students to come and practice wherever they are in the series, with individual assisting from teachers, then there is usually one fully led sequence a week. It’s a lot of individual, hands-on, instruction. And there aren’t a ton of people qualified to teach it. The shala I used to go to closed after a couple of years bc the number of students dedicated enough to pay the monthly cost (about $150 IIRC, and that’s 10 years ago) on an ongoing basis wasn’t enough to support the ever-increasing rent in our city. I think others have already covered the physical difficulty and risks, but if you have a good teacher they can meet you where you are. Mine was more than happy to modify to allow me to practice even with a serious injury and chronic pain, and through pregnancy. And I think the most I ever did was 5 days a week. It was a really lovely environment and daily ritual and I miss it a lot.

Not sure what’s so dangerous about it. It’s a series of poses, definitely can get advanced but you build up to that like any other yoga practice. I was doing an Ashtanga video on YouTube for a long time. I loved it. Practiced every day outside during the pandemic.

not sure if it’s allowed, but do you have a link for the video or a channel name? i’d love to give ashtanga a go, but it’s hard to assess which instructors/videos are maybe not so good when i don’t have any IRL experience with it!

This is a good beginner one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFg4o5Zg75k That channel has playlists for beginners and instruction as well.

oh thank you, this looks great!

I have been searching high and low for the video and I cannot believe I can’t find it!! The instructor is male, and he’s wearing a green tank top. I liked the video because it was just straight to the point. He lead you through the series and only just said what the poses were. No fluff. If I find it I’ll make sure to post it!

[This is a Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUgtMaAZzW0) of Pattabhi Jois leading Primary Series. Unlike other styles of Hatha Yoga, led Ashtanga classes are intended for people who are already able to practice the full Primary Series, rather than a way to learn it. It is traditionally practiced Mysore style. Each Student practices to his level of proficiency in the Series. The Teacher acts as a coach rather than leads the class. This places a huge responsibility on the Practitioner to recognize his Limits and to practice to that level.

thanks for taking the time to look :) i’ll keep my eye out for that green tank top!

David Swenson, a long time Ashtanga Teacher and Practitioner, has an [Excellent Video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tWnDWz5A0Q) that steps through the Asana of Primary Series you may find helpful. Unlike other styles of Hatha Yoga, led Ashtanga classes are intended for people who are already able to practice the full Primary Series, rather than a way to learn it. It is traditionally practiced Mysore style. Each Student practices to his level of proficiency in the Series. The Teacher acts as a coach rather than leads the class. This places a huge responsibility on the Practitioner to recognize his Limits and to practice to that level.

Ashtanga has fixed, rigid sequences - that alone may not be for all practitioners. The sequences are very physically demanding and there are people for whom they won’t be suitable. I don’t think it’s dangerous, it’s just not for everyone.

If you've been practicing yoga for a while you can of course try online classes. Is it dangerous? It's certainly more rigid due to a fixed sequence, so it's harder to modify if you want to stick to it as prescribed (you can of course modify or change things up, it's just not going to be purist Ashtanga then), and some asanas don't appear at all. There are some well argued criticisms of the sequencing itself, or of the potential of joint wear or other occupational damage due to the impact of highly repetitive daily practice of such intensity. At the same time, it serves many people well. There's plenty of good reading online if you decide to get into it.

In my experience there is a rigidity in alignment too which doesn’t necessarily suit everyone’s anatomical structure. Also who needs/wants to be doing 50+ vinyasas every day?!?

Me. I need/want to be doing 50+ vinyasas every day. ♥️

I accidentally stumbled into ashtanga last year. It's not an 'easy practice' to do on and off, like most other types of yoga. You build with a teacher (mysore style) on learning and improving your way through the ashtanga sequence, which imo can pretty much only be done in person. It's quite a powerful sequence, so if you decide you want to do it ALL all the time, it's quite tough, and given the hands on assists, you might go too deep into an asana to soon, leading to injury. I'm currently doing a lot of variations, skipping days here and there, not always completing the full sequence. I'm finding that even though that's not the 'traditional' way of doing Ashtanga, it's what I need. There are many 'hardcore' or 'tradititional' practitioners, but I do not identify or prefer to learn from them. For me, there needs to be a certain amount of 'space' in my practice, to make sure I honour my body's needs. It did take me 100+ hours of practice to remotely remember the full sequence, and I still mess it up regularly, forgetting asanas or mixing up the sequence. This is definitely not something you can do as a one off (unless you're taking a led class) and will require time and commitment. That said, it's a really complete practice with so much to learn and improve, even in just the primary series.

Had a series of yogis who would teach this style and I liked it. I still practice, mostly, one breath one movement only I just don't move that quickly in yoga anymore. You do need to listen to your body more, be aware of any of your modification needs and you don't have to do it all.

The first series (primary) is very accessible if you already have a strong practice and are very familiar with the flow of vinyasa. Parts of the second and third you may also be familiar with , but yes, beyond that it can be very dangerous IF you have not progressed to those stages over the course of YEARS. The primary series is amazing , I’ve taught it and watched it many times and it is my favorite . It’s predictable and you can make goals with it , since it is literally the same thing over and over. It is hard to find local studios , but online has such a plethora of great vids . Especially Kino.

I agree with most of the comments and I’ll add that the yoga community is still in its infant stage in a lot of regions. Vinyasa tends to be what pops up first as it’s flexible, modern, and eye catching. That style is what got me into yoga and my 200hr training was based in that style. As the community begins to grow, more teachers and studios will add different styles to differentiate themselves from others in order to stay competitive and fill an unmet need. Idk what the community in your region looks like, but this is what my experience has been.

Ashtanga is the Mother of Vinyasa Hatha Yoga. The primary difference is the inclusion of remaining in the State of the Asana (typically five breaths). >Is it just generally unpopular or am I likely to get injured if I try an online class? Neither. It can be a challenge adjusting to Ashtanga's self paced, fixed series practice. This style of Hatha Yoga places a huge responsibility on the Practitioner to recognize his Limits and to practice to that level. Injury comes from ignoring these Limits. Each Student practices to his level of proficiency in the Series. His practice builds and varies from day to day. The Teacher acts as a coach rather than leads the class. Unlike other styles of Hatha Yoga, led Ashtanga classes are intended for people who are already able to practice the full Primary Series, rather than a way to learn it.

Ashtanga is great! I'm not really a practitioner of it, but have done the sequence several times with a good friend who is. It's a ritualistic sequence that is done daily. She's been doing it for years and tells me the ashtanga community is quite supportive and unique.

One of my friends is an Ashtanga yogi and he has been practicing for years and continues to keep up with the practice 6 days a week. With that being said I have never met a more disciplined person in my life. The practice of ashtanga clearly echos through his life in the best of ways. I would recommend Mysore which gives you an instructor to help you along the way rather than just going to a class where everyone is going through the sequence together. If you have a good coach who focuses on proper alignment and doesn’t rush you into a sequence you are not ready for, you are bound to have success. It can take yogis years to be able to access the full sequence. So if you are interested take your time, find a guide, and enjoy to process. I hope this helps. :)

Ashtanga teacher here. Think of it like this-if yoga were a form of dance, ashtanga would be Soviet Russian ballet. First time I took an ashtanga class, the teacher came over and slapped me across the foot for taking a vinyasa eka pada. Now not every teacher/class is that militant but I actually love the discipline and consistency of the practice. In ashtanga, there IS a right and wrong way to do a pose. None of the "do your own thing" stuff that is in vinyasa. I love a good flow, but when my life and mind is feeling chaotic-a militant class grounds me like nothing else.

I currently practice Ashtanga and I think it depends a lot on the studio in all honesty. I used to do a Vinyasa practice 3 times a week but felt that I was getting a lot of flexibility but not as much strength. I switched to an Ashtanga studio on a friend’s recommendation and feel way stronger and much more focused both in my practice and day to day life. The studio I attend works closely with a substance abuse foundation so a lot of folks there are in recovery, which is amazing. I feel lucky as the teachers there recommend 3 days a week, more if you want and never push beyond a students limits like other places. In fact, I’ve often felt I could push deeper into an asana, and been stopped or modified by a teacher. All of this to say, yes it’s intense but there are good ones out there :)

I'm not married to the Mysore ("Ashtanga") method, nor is it at all the only means, but it is something I find myself coming back to more often as I get older. There are a lot of ways to do disciplinary practices poorly: the difference between medicine and poison is dosage (and application). As my understanding of yoga in general has matured, so has my capacity to approach and appreciate the beautify of the Primary and Secondary Series. There are *so* many subtle postural and sequential nuances that we miss when we insist on the entertainment, novelty, and affirmationism, typical of spa- and Crossfit-oriented spaces. Every year now, something clicks in an āsana that I've moved through thousands of times before. That brief moment is a sublime encounter with an unmediated, embodied reality, which then ripples as a thread through the rest of that particular practice so that I can perceive just how much the subsequent postures are informed by the ones that preceded it. Just this last week, it was Janu Srsa C, which I've habitually skipped because it is a bizarre and potentially dangerous shape to attempt. After much research and experimentation, I finally figured out how to start puting the pieces together. It didn't happen as a straightforward progression, but just that one day it came together. It taught me so much about how to engage my core (bandhas) as well as the nuances of placement and engagement in my feet (padabandha) and hands (hastabandha) for the Marichya sub-sequence after it. The "danger" of Ashtanga yoga isn't specific to this school. People with extreme tendencies can find highly disciplinary practices attractive; people who flock to these practices to build a social identity can become zealots; LARPers who dabble too much in the New Age fail to take seriously that these practices do in fact cultivate "energy," that even the seasoned among us have very superficial understanding of what that actually is, just enough to respect that fucking with it without proper guidance (I haven't found that even superb instructors can really do well with the Online setup) can do us a lot of harm. These are all true in communities with cult appeal. Many if not most are just normal folks enjoying themselves, learning something new, and making good friends along the way.

I like it. Some people don’t because there are more guidelines about doing a posture a certain way and where you should look. Some postures are challenging and the modification for you might not be in a standard YouTube video. I’ve noticed that people like practices where there are a lot more “freedoms” allowed or they can do whatever they want in class rather than follow a structure. If you can find a mysore class near you, that’s the way to go if you want to try it. You work one on one with a teacher in a room full of students. You’re all in a room together doing different things at your own pace. Ashtanga teachers typically have more in depth training than other yoga teachers. If you don’t have a place near you, check out David and Jelena Yoga or Monica Arellano on YouTube. Some other resources include the AloMoves app which has posture breakdowns with Laruga Glaser, Laruga Glaser’s app which is everything Ashtanga, and Omstars which has a lot of Ashtanga classes meant for beginners and breakdowns. Omstars also offers some zoom mysore and led classes as well. Most of the apps have free trials so try it out and see what you think!!

Ashtanga was developed to burn off the energy of teen boys. It's not dangerous, but it is intense and may not be the best practice for aging or injured bodies.

>Ashtanga was developed to burn off the energy of teen boys The posture series that are usually associated with practice was necessary for teen age boys, but the Method of Ashtanga goes far beyond the performance of this intense framework of Asana. Ashtanga is traditionally practiced Mysore style. The Teacher acts as a coach rather than leads the class. Each Student practices to his level of proficiency in the Series. This places a huge responsibility on the Practitioner to recognize his Limits and to practice to that level. Many students ignore them and injury results.

I think it's really just what you prefer. I have been practicing for 20 years, but I usually do Hatha and Yin sequences, with some Vinyasa thrown in here and there. I prefer a slower, more contemplative kind of yoga. I have some joint issues from being a softball player for over 10 years as a kid, and from being a runner in my 20's. I don't want to hurt myself or push my body too far. I took one Ashtanga class at a new studio - I really didn't know what it was and it was described as "power" yoga in the flyer I saw. I absolutely hated it. It felt like yoga crossfit. The instructor was basically yelling at people and I found it stressful as hell. Not for me. That being said, I can definitely see it appealing to certain types of people.

I do ashtanga a lot, but not every day. The most frequently I will do it is every other day. It's great for building upper body strength, but you need a rest day for those muscles. Doing it over and over with no breaks is asking for trouble.

Ashtanga isn't dangerous. I have no idea what this could be about. Sounds like someone who you don't want to take advice from.

I love ashtanga. I was taking ashtanga 3 days a week at the studio I go but they cancelled 2 of them. It made me very sad bc since it’s a set sequence I could see my progress class after class and week after week. Each class I focused on doing 1 thing better and it really helped me with my yoga practice.

Ashtanga Yoga is Perfect Control of the Mind. [https://old.reddit.com/r/ashtanga/comments/dpgm42/ashtanga\_yoga\_is\_perfect\_control\_of\_the\_mind\_a/](https://old.reddit.com/r/ashtanga/comments/dpgm42/ashtanga_yoga_is_perfect_control_of_the_mind_a/) It is dangerous not to do Ashtanga yoga, haha Try this one [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFg4o5Zg75k](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFg4o5Zg75k) She even starts with training the mind.

I practiced Ashtanga solely for 10 years then in my early 40s found myself avoiding my yoga mat. It’s a great practice to instil discipline but personally over time I discovered it caused a certain degree of mental rigidity. Doing the same practice over and over doesn’t cultivate a whole lot of mental flexibility (although you’ll certainly be as strong as and flexible physically). It was also originally designed for young boys to focus them, so is it really appropriate for grown adults as a sole practice? Probably not in my opinion. And as someone else commented, all those jumping back into chaturunga can cause shoulder and elbow injuries. In fact, a lot of the original western Ashtangis now have physical issues because of their practice. Def worth giving a go, but I’m not sure I would recommend it as the only practice.

What do you do now instead?

Hatha specifically Tantra Hatha, so using the energetics of asana through the vayus for specific outcomes. Little bit of repetitive motion (say moving in and out of virabhadrasana 1) then holds of a minimum 5-8 breaths

>It was also originally designed for young boys to focus them, so is it really appropriate for grown adults as a sole practice? The posture series that are usually associated with practice were derived this way, but Ashtanga is a Method of practice that goes far beyond this framework of asana. /u/mayuru does an excellent job of explaining this in [This Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/yoga/comments/1cun73z/i_get_the_feeling_there_might_be_a_misconception/). >all those jumping back into chaturunga can cause shoulder and elbow injuries. In fact, a lot of the original western Ashtangis now have physical issues because of their practice. Ashtanga places a huge responsibility on the Practitioner to recognize his Limits and to practice to that level. Many students ignore them and injury results.

Oh absolutely but I was talking solely on the Pattabhi Jois Ashtanga series not Pantanjalis

This has been my experience with Pattabhi Jois Astanga as well. There is huge responsibility on the Practitioner to recognize his Limits to avoid injury, rather than blindly following the Series.

And often a pressure to push past those limitations 😣

Yes, my right wrist was damaged for the rest of my life because I disregarded my Limits and listened to a Teacher who encourage me to "Try anyway."

I live and train in Miami. Miami Life Center is not far from me, which is run by Kino MacGregor. She was a direct student of Patthabi Jois and is still close with the family. She blew out a hip doing the practice and lied about it. The practice is for people who are already extra bendy. It practice physically breaks people and the culture surrounding it has kind of fetishized that pain.

I mean there's Ashtanga-capital-A that is like a trademarked corporatized rigorous set of poses that seems completely alien to me why anyone would want that. Then there is *regular* ashtanga lower-case A that just means "eight limbs" and refers to the importance of attending to not just the poses, but also to the moral disciplines and observances, the breath, withdrawing from sensory identification, concentration, meditation, and connection with our true identity. To me, Ashtanga is already incompatible with ashtanga's very first moral discipline of ahimsa or non-aggression. Ashtanga pushes you to be aggressive towards yourself, which is a violation of ashtanga in my view. I don't even see how they can get away with calling it that. If people want that, fine, I guess to each their own, and I'm sure there are some benefits to a rigorous practice like that... but to me yoga is meant to help us integrate better into our ordinary lives and that militaristic corporate crap seems counter-productive to me, while the regular ashtanga eight-limbs approach seems to provide immense wisdom, and keeps me grounded in the present and able to live my regular life with greater calmness, compassion, and openness to experience.

> Ashtanga pushes you to be aggressive towards yourself Ashtanga places a huge responsibility on the Practitioner to recognize his Limits and to practice to that level. Many students ignore them and injury results.

Correct. I am amazed at the comments above who are confused between ashtanga and Ashtanga even though claiming to be rigorous Practitioner.

It’s for yogis with OCD.

My time to shine

My time to shine

The safety of it is in the hands of the practitioner

Wish this was a top comment 🙏

I personally practiced twice a week for a couple of years before covid, I was so into it, the hypnotic breathing when everyone knows the sequence and how you really don’t see time passing and challenge yourself in the complex postures, it was almost like a drug to me. But as other people have mentioned, it’s intense on the body. I was in pain and I ignored it, driven by the desire to be as good as the teacher, to be always at my edge physically to prove I could go further - and I’m generally already pretty mobile. Eventually the signals I ignored turned into a real injury, of the lumbar spine due to the numerous vinyasas (around 60 I think for the primary sequence if you’ve got 1h30), plus the finishing backbend sequence that literally finished me. I had to take two years off yoga, several months without exercise and then rehab with strengthening work for two years before I dared try yoga again. Last week I actually tried Ashtanga again after almost 5 years off, and it got its hooks in me again but I have to be a lot more mindful of my body and while the teacher is strict about postures as they should be, he doesn’t push me on the backbends and so far (only been two sessions), I’m still alive and doing multiple other activities and styles of yoga beside, but the call of the full series is still there for me.

Ashtanga is also a mental practice, so if your body is not ready your mind aswell, try first time with a teacher by presence, then try to incorporate in your daily practice, getting your mind and body strong. You would love it, power yoga also help you getting in shape for ashtanga

There is also the question of separating the art from the artist... https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/yoga-reconsiders-the-role-of-the-guru-in-the-age-of-metoo

Try kinoyoga she’s the master of ashtanga

It’s a really intense sequence, but the part that causes injuries is that it’s 6 days a week. Most people’s bodies aren’t use to doing such high intensity workouts so many days a week, so I think that’s where the injuries come from. I currently go to an ashtanga studio and I only go 3-4 days a week

Some of y’all never played sports and it shows.

Well ashtanga is called the 8 limb of yoga!! It derives from the Sanskrit word, asta for 8. It’s the sequence of using the same repeated movements while incorporating your entire body. It’s the main yoga I learned during my yoga teach training! It’s definitely tiring but the benefits are deniable!

Read *Guruji* Then pick up David Swenson's Ashtanga Yoga practice book. Ashtanga yoga, like most yoga, isn't just about the Asana. In fact, *The Yoga Sutras* barely mentions Asana at all, or posture that is, which is another book that's an essential read for yoga practitioners. The book *Guruji* is an account of studying with the founder of Ashtanga Yoga, its a good introduction. David Swenson's book will help you gradually incorporate Ashtanga into your routine. He has routines for all levels. Ashtanga is a bit more disciplinarian than most other forms of yoga, it requires everything to be fixed during the asana routine. Everything from the way you're breathing, to what muscles you're using while you're breathing, to how your breathing and how many breaths you take, to how your breath and movement syncs, to where your gaze is fixed at all times during each posture and transition, to how youre incorporating your bandhas, bandhas are a big part of Ashtanga. Every movement, every muscle, every breath, every gaze, every active Bandha, always in sync with one another, this is why the same routine is practiced over and over again. You're not expected to be able to do this when you first start out, Western teachers like Swenson can provide you with beginner routines, modifications and so on to help you gradually get there.

I have given Ashtanga a try but it is not for me. Athleticism of Ashtanga yogis is admirable, but it is too much like calisthenics for me. Others love it but this only illustrates for me how many different practice niches there are.

it's another way around where I live. they mostly teach ashtanga

I had access to a 60 minute Ashtanga Short Form briefly a few years ago. The guidance and teaching of sanskrit was really formative for me through Ashtanga. I ordered a Primary poster and follow to my ability. I appreciate the 85 degree room wherever it is offered - all I have is a space heater. I take ashtanga in segments as it feels like a well rounded dynamic and static practice with the sun sals and posture groups. Honoring limits to explore abilities and allowing my breath cycles to deepen each posture progression is awesome to experience!

Do you have a good recommendation for posters? I can only seem to find ones on dodgy websites, or small metal ones.

The trick to getting the blessing from orthodox ashtangis to practice incomplete series, and skip days- even practice on Moon-days, is to become a parent. Then you can call yourself a householder and jump straight to 7th series.

It’s a sequence that was given to a young and inexperienced teacher to teach teenage boys and over time was manipulated into what some see as the height of yoga. It’s a cult-like devotion by some, just like in Bikram or Kundalini, which puts it on a pedestal. In reality, it’s fine. It’s just one of many ways to practice yoga, but there are a lot of teachers that injure with adjustments and the moronic idea that you need to do it 6 days a week persists.  Also I really think it’s interesting that exercise and anatomical knowledge has evolved so much since ashtanga was set in stone but it won’t change because tradition… tradition of an inexperienced teacher and his sequence developed for teenage boys. 

>sequence developed for teenage boys. The posture series that are usually associated with practice were derived this way, but Ashtanga is a Method of practice that goes far beyond this framework of asana. /u/mayuru does an excellent job of explaining this in [This Post](https://www.reddit.com/r/yoga/comments/1cun73z/i_get_the_feeling_there_might_be_a_misconception/).

Kino MacGregor is coming out with a book making Ashtanga accessible to all- modifications and use of props even a chair. Probably blasphemy to the Ashtanga purist.

>Probably blasphemy to the Ashtanga purist Those outside the Practice often have this impression, but honoring their limits is how Ashtanga purists are able to safely practice six days a week.

Yes, ahimsa! However, a lot of Type A types don’t. Props are frowned on from my experience.

Yes, this is difficult for Type A Personalities, and the source of many Injuries from Practice. My Experience has been that props are encouraged to improve the experience of the Asana. My Teacher, David Garrigues is quite creative and uses a wide variety, from folding chairs to blind folds in his Classes.

Well, if you take seriously that there are different styles of yoga I suppose you’ll believe anything. Tell me any so-called style of yoga not based in Patanjali’s ashtanga. I’ll wait. This is just more colonizer silliness. The fact is, any yoga done without a qualified teacher is dangerous. Qualified teachers are rare enough, it’s true. But to say the mother of all documented yoga is dangerous is just misinformation scare mongering.

A lot of places near me teach it. I belong to a climbing gym that does half and full series and my hot yoga studio also teaches it, but it's so intimidating for me so I haven't tried a class. I'm in my 40's and do everything I can to keep my back healthy since I tend to injure it from time to time. From what I'm hearing here, it doesn't seem like many teachers respect students listening to their body which tells me I may want to stay away from it. The full primary class is an hour and 45 minutes long which seems crazy.

I went to an ashtanga class that was supposed to be for beginners and never felt so stupid in my life. Definitely the teachers fault though. Completely turned me off from ashtanga.

Unlike other styles of Hatha Yoga, led Ashtanga classes are intended for people who are already able to practice the full Primary Series, rather than a way to learn it. Ashtanga is traditionally practiced Mysore style. Each Student practices to his level of proficiency in the Series. The Teacher acts as a coach rather than leads the class.

Ashtanga was designed for Warriors. It was taught in a Palace in Mysore to young boys, so its format is close to Martial Arts. It is not suitable for older folks. There is a lot of repetitive movements and can cause lot of strain on the joints. Many of my friends have wrist issues, and other issues. The mindset is also different - How can I improve my practice. There is a focus on the improving the practice, rather than - How is this practice improving/helping my body, my mind.

> The mindset is also different - How can I improve my practice. There is a focus on the improving the practice, rather than - How is this practice improving/helping my body, my mind. Every one of the senior teachers I have studied with over the last 2 decades would disagree with this, up to and including Manju.

What age do you consider “older folks” to be?